Speaks to the planning.
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Welcome back to Unplugged. We're in the midst of our la all the smoke r Jack. We got a chance to sit down with Vernon mad Maxwell at All Start and that shit is going crazy right now.
Man, tell the truth.
Y'all got a nigga out here for work, and y'all just wanted to make me work more while we shit.
That's what it is. You don't even come in on the mad match.
Yeah, I'm gonna do that, but I just want to say that first I knew I was in here. Let's get this nigga on right now to shoot unplugged?
Why he here? So we ain't got a text him thirty times Sunday? Right Bill? Mindela that you do be taking my.
Bad Another stat though, is he broke Kendrick Perkins motherfucker's on that episode, which I never thought could happen. Is there any truth to her keen slapping the ship out of you at halftime one time? There's a lot of truth to it.
A lot of truth, Yes, that motherfucker like Scraper's hands on the ground and mother, Oh my goodness, hit me so goddamn herd Wisdom Seattle, every damn thing happened shadow goddamn, but Wisdom's shadow was.
I was mine.
I was having a bad first half. And Ship and Gary and them and Sean Kemp and all the motherfuckers. They had a squad over that motherfucker. Uh double deuces, Ricky Piers they had all they had a squad or whatever, Dannum barrows they have a squad. They just had a bunch of motherfuckers can bay so Derrick mkiad. Then now if I'm having a bad first half, I'm like, damn, you know how long that fucking walk is? And see
how I'm locking. Yeah, this like motherfucker walking fucking this ship around the blobber, round this damn building to come back in here. I mean they're walking so long.
Yeah, so I'm mad.
When I get mad, I should spit. I'm walking, I'm spitting and the niggas uh Sam sitting up and Robber beside me.
Man, it's gonna be alright, mask Come on, man, you're gonna be okay.
Man, Fuck this shit.
Man, these niggas ain't getting me the ball.
These niggas won't pass the ball.
Man.
Fuck this ship.
So dream behind me and dream like MAXI, what the fuckers you doing? That Shit's not professional? Don't do that ship stuff that ship.
I was like, three, man, fuck that ship. I'm tired of you too.
Why would I say that ship?
Now?
I shouldn't have said that because he came in put this goddamn hands up, big old hands on me in the locker room.
Oh man, he.
Slapped the ship out of me.
And I said, coming from the back, man, way from the back.
They slapped ship out of me so hard.
I mean, I thought, I'm on fucker punched me. He slapped out of mens.
Hand ship man slapped ship out of me. Man, man, that killed me.
But but but but hey, but knowing you, you had to do what you do well.
You tried to get you, try to get yourself together. I'm glad, Yes, I'm glad you as well.
I got you know, I went crazy in that motherfucker.
Everybody was running and scrambling that.
There's a lot of mother buther scrambling and.
That motherfucker when I got there doing, I was doing.
It's only one thing, nigga like that's left you. I'm going to get that too.
Always on the road. We waved mother fucking way all the way across the country.
We all got there. We way over there, Seattleton. Why know what ship next? Is a star?
Bro He's a star. I knew it was gonna be a funny episode. I have watched the episode probably two or three times. I haven't watched no other episode we've done two or three times. I promise you haven't. I probably watched Kobe once twice, but this episode is my most watched.
Newest member to the All the Smoke Family, Max, Welcome Burnt Out. Oh my God, have him back soon, Yes, sir, Hot Out of Phoenix's Bootenholzer recently had definite Booker come to his office and told his book he needs to tone it down.
Booten Holzer, Booty.
Holder, he wants his voice. He he wants his voice to be more prominent. Bootenholzer wants stat which is crazy. I've never heard of coach tell a star player that he needs to tone it down. And I heard deep book talk after that and saying that a lack of communication feels like it's one of the reasons why this team has struggled, and he's tired of here and let's get him next game.
At some point, you got to.
Drive motherfucking line and we got to win now.
Stack.
You had Buttonholzer in San Antonio, very impressive regular season record throughout his career, but hasn't been able to get it done in the playoffs. I'm not sure if his style translates anymore. But also at the same time, Devin Bookers had seven head coaches in his ten years as Phoenix. A laundry list is this ownership?
Is it?
Butenholzer has the game passed them? What do you see out of Phoenix? It's a shit show over there first and foremost, I mean you.
Said it just looked like he hasn't been able to build a real relationship with nobody. You know him above, don't had a type of relationship. They've had that time to have the respect. You know, Tim Duncan and Great Populis together for a while. So when pop cut him off or you know, made Tim be the reason why he can get on other guys, you know, Tim embraced
it because they had a relationship. You know what I'm saying with the respect was mutual, I don't think the respect is mutual because they haven't been around.
It took long enough.
Then again, bro Bud was an offensive coach when I was there. He wasn't the coach for communicating. That was Mike Brown. Mike Brown communicate with guys, and he was at the bubble was strictly for offense. He didn't come in the locker room to talk and get guys ready to play. Or he wasn't a guy to come in get your shot. You know what I'm saying. He wasn't that guy, but he would. He's still a great coach because he grew, he came up under Pop and he had had some success in the league.
But to say this for.
Devns, I mean for books a point of view, it's impossible for him to even sit there or even want to grow with this team when you don't have a coach that you can build with, because that's where you really get your confidence. When I talk about Don Nelson all the time, like I bounced around team, played with different coaches. But that's why he's my favorite because and I got that I was they were spending some time
with him, and he also gave me that confidence. And having a coach like that was just coming in and you ain't been building no rapport with him. It's not gonna work, you know what I'm saying. And that's and you know what, Matt, that's the reason why it's other turmoil going on in an organization, you know what I'm saying, Because it's not good on that bench.
And I can see I can see all those guys trying to get up out of them.
You know, obviously It'shbia's idea to bring in Bradley Beal on a note trade deal. I think that clogged up the whole entire trade deadline for this Phoenix team. But not that Bradley Beial is a bad player, because I definitely know he's not. But it was just from the outside looking in, we knew you're bringing in three straight scorers, that that wasn't gonna work, and they wanted to move him at the debt deadline and possibly get Jimmy Butler.
That didn't work, and then you throw KT's name in there, and now you got kat a little puzzled because he never knew. You know, why am I being thrown in this shit when I didn't ask or no one talked to me about it. Katie's got one year left. I'm not sure how much time Booker has left. But do you see, they're these guys getting out of Phoenix at the end of the year.
I hope so I would like to see him like that because I want to see these guys win. You know, book is a great player. Katie's a great player. I don't think it's gonna happen there. You know, once that start happing with the side, the riffs start happened on the sideline with the coach. Then next thing you know, it's gonna be players talking about the coach. They next you know, the player is gonna be going to the office talking about So it's too much friction.
Everybody got to be on the same page to win, and they not know what's lost up.
I mean, what are we two, three, maybe four years move from James Jones making a bunch of great moves and getting Phoenix on the map and all of a sudden, now one bad move can fuck it all of them bucket all up. I mean, it's chemistry matters. Is this an issue with new owners coming into the game and kind of being fans and not really looking at the business of basketball. We see with HBO, we've seen them with the new ownership with Dallas. It's interesting because again
that that at the top is where everything starts. And if they're not basketball savvy and understanding the game and they're fans of the game, sometimes that ship just doesn't work. But if I love to see Booker get out, but if Katie he leaves Jack was he thirty six? How was Kitty thirty six years old? He'll be up for an extension after next season. He's probably going to get a lot of money for that extension, maybe a three
year extension. Where do you do you see any any suitable landing spots for Kadi?
Yeah?
I would love to see kat in Dallas with Kyrie and Ad they can happen, if they possibly could make that happen. I also would like to see book or somewhere where's Booker from Bookers from the Midwest? Right Detroit? Hey, I would love to see him go back. I would love to go back home and ed book. With the way they going, they start building, you know what I'm saying. I think that'll be a great piece to keep that organization going in the right direction.
Wowow he's home. That'd be I'll be grateful.
Book That'd be crazy. I didn't think about that. Had on to day to d but not out to Detroit. We shall see, Yeah, I mean, you know, since we're talking about that, did Detroit? That's give the Detroit pissing some love. Man thirty one wins in the last two seasons prior to this year. I think they're currently sitting at with thirty two thirty three wins. If I'm not mistake, sixth in the West, eight straight wins. Kate Cuttingham as
odds in for most improved Player. What have you seen from this team?
Jack?
I mean top ten in scoring, top five and assists. Beasley has been a big addition to this team, averaging sixteen points. Youot over forty two percent from the three point line. One of the Thompson Twins is they're making his presence felt. Thoughts on Detroit and JB. Shout out to JB because I thought of unjust firing from Cleveland, right he was having to seem solid over in Cleveland, gets fired and heads on over to Detroit and completely has changed his team around.
You have a bunch of guys on that team. You could tell they all playing for so and that's just what it is, you know, And you know contracts where the guys are playing for respect. You know where guys that don't want to be on the sorry team, don't want to go through what they went through last year. Like you can tell whatever it is that everybody on this team is playing for something. Even the coach he's coaching for something. Right, you know what I'm saying for
where they did him last year. So I think I love and I would love to be a part of stuff like that. You know what I'm saying, because we have a reason. The pride is that a passion is there and that's why they have it. Says along with k Cunningham showing that he belongs to be talked about in the Top player the top players in the league also be talking about Detroit.
I sorry, one of the twins been bothering man.
He's been playing, I think defensively, him and his brother the probably two best defensive players in the league.
And the effort that they give. What do you think about both of them? I love that.
I mean, those kids are Northern California kids.
I think they're from Odeo. I'm not mistaken.
They took the overtime Elite angle and obviously, you know, being twins and me having twins on my own, and it's just fun to see them do what they're doing. Two of the most athletic, explosive guys, dogs play with high energy and again big part of the rotation in Detroit and obviously another big part of the rotation in Houston. So he crossed Tatum and made a lot of the he turned, he turned Tatum around. Yeah, this is interesting. I remember seeing this a while ago that the Thompson's
twins mom made them commit to this. Uh, you know, just kind of accountability as far as push up, sit ups, calf raises reading, just being productive young teenagers at the time, and they stuck with that. And now we see these guys and I think their second year, right, second year, really starting to come out of their shell and and being major players in this game now. So I'm happy for JB. I'm happy for Kid. I'm happy for Detroit.
Detroit has been struggling for a while, and you know the fact that they've done this the right way through drafts and and free agency and got a coach that they really like and the players have bought into.
If they can land to Devin Booker, look out, will we see history one day?
Well, the twins of both first team a defense that'll be crazy.
Yeah, there's I mean, this is interesting again. These guys played, you know, Ote and you along I think Rob Dillingham and who's the other guy? Saw took the OTV rut and we look at college basketball and all these crazy stupid ass rules with juco players that could play two years and then still coming and be freshmen, and now they're giving people five years. And this Alabama team is number one of the country, but they have a twenty six year old and a twenty five year old. Like
this shit is crazy. But I say all that to say is there's just so many different lanes to the NBA now, whether you want to do what you know Brandon Jennings did and Mellow did and go over the water for your one year and then come back and do your thing if you want to actually go to college, but you know, the way colleges college is a mess right now. And then obviously OTE shout out to Ote and what they've been able to create over there and
the kids they be have oportingtunities too. But it's it's really interesting, Jackie, as someone who came straight to the league, do you see the league in the next few years kind of moving that rule and allowing kids to make that jump again?
I hope.
So, I mean, you know, college is very, very beneficial for a lot of kids now, but you know a lot of people still don't want to go to school, you know what I mean.
And That's just what it boils down to.
If I can make the money and not go to school, because then again, you got so many young black menaires now that's making money and they didn't get their skills all they talent from education. You know, they sitting at home, sitting in front of the computers making blogs and stuff like that. So definitely you should be able to go to you know, my all my thing is if you can go to War eighteam, you should be able to play basketball in the sport, take care of your family.
Recently, Lebron James was asked about Anthony Edwards' comments about being the face of the league and who is and who isn't who would want to be Take a look at this clip.
And see ain't trying to deal with that?
And uh, I mean Channing Fry said it the other day too, Like, I mean, it's unfortunate, but like I don't know, when you have why do you want to be the face of a league when all the all the all the people that you know that cover our game and talk about our game or the day to day based on everybody had that responsibility. That's it's just weird. It's weird. Energy from the people that.
You know.
I don't know.
But Channing, he said it, he said it perfectly, couldn't set it no better, but and said he don't want it.
I didn't.
I mean, obviously I didn't ask for it, but I knew there was a responsibility for me not only to my family, my friends, my community, and and and whoever that was gonna follow my my my journey throughout my career, not only in Ohio when I started there, but all all over America and all over the world when I traveled all over the world. So I've always taken that seriously and understand and understood from the beginning what what being a professional was all about and being a role
model was all about. So tried to hold that with the utmost uh respect and honor. And but I feel and I understand, I completely understand.
This is weird energy when it comes to that. So last question, appreciate it, Jack thoughts.
I kind of look at that both ways. It's a lot of people that are covering basketball, I talk about the game that never played, So I agree with them. They say some wor a shit. But then again to whom much is given, much is required. You know what I mean? I know a lot of people that would die to be called the face of the NBA and be able to deal with the slander, whether it's good or bad, and not just let it, you know, dust it off their shoulder and keep it going.
So I look at it both ways.
Yeah, you got a lot of people talk about a lot of stuff that never been in the NBA locker room that couldn't make a church league team a church league team. I get it, but they and they say some crazy things. But at the same time, like I said, to whom much is given, much is required. I would rather deal with that, you know what I mean, and be the face of the league than not have that opportunity to be there.
I mean, I think it's just such a huge badge of honor to be the face of anything, particularly the face of the NBA. And I think we live in the day and age now where the negativity is always going to be louder than the love. Yep, And I think that's the aspect of social media and clickbait media come with. It's just a lot of jealousy and a lot of hate. You take Jason Tatum, Take Jason Tatum's resume, Why is he not the face of so. Colin Cowherd
just say he's paraphrase, he's just kind of boring. But look at his accolades, Look what he does on the court, Look what he's accomplished, you know, and not wanting it, but you know, you never know if he's serious or joking around. But it's just a different it's a different time now, it's a different time. I think guys like Lebron and KD who came in in a different era are kind of hurt from a standpoint of the way
the game's being talked about. But they also have to realize Jack, I'll say this, sometimes when you're in a fuck the relationship, you don't know it's fucked.
Up until you're out of it.
Right the product of the NBA is just not very good right now. Playoffs heats up, but the regular season for the last few years hasn't been good. And I'm sure it's hard for guys like Lebron, NKD, and Steph. We're at the end of incredible runs, three of the greatest players will ever see, possibly all three top ten guys the game's ever seen, but towards the back end
of their career. Now towards the end of their career, like the product, this newer age is coming in with a different vibe and like KG says, a newer lens and it's just not the same thing.
Sometimes. I think if Katie and Lebron were able to take a step.
Out of the situation and take themselves away from the current game they're in and they love and kind of look at what it is on a day to day basis, they would understand what the outside people are looking at. I don't ever recall when we were playing that people were saying this is a bad product. I don't recall that. I mean early to late nineties, early two thousands, the
game was the game and it was incredible. So again I get where he's coming back, you know, And like you said, a lot, a lot is given, a lot is going to be required, and the hate will always be louder than the love. But I just think it's such a huge honor to be the face of the league, and to me, I think Jason Tatum should be at
the top of that list. There's a lot of international players that are on that list, and obviously Anthony Edwards getting his mind right as great as he is you see young shit coming out of him every once in a while, like when he was disappointed or mad about being double team. I mean, that's an honor, bro, you know what I mean? Like, how do you get better from being double team? So I think is at the top of that list for maryor players. I think Job would be listed as one of those guys if he
wasn't in so much off the court dumb shit. We have a lot of American talent, but these guys have to embrace this because you would never hear someone like a Mike or Kobe or whoever was next in line, even the Lebron because he wasn't talking about it when he was handed you know, the crown of being the face of the league. It's just a different energy now, and you know, hopefully these young guys start to embracing and say fuck everything else because it doesn't really matter.
Right.
Transitioning into some postseason awards, do some picks want to put some push ups on the line. Let's see, Jack, let's see what is going on. Let's see and I'll give you first pick for everything regular season MVP.
Who do you got? Come on?
Man?
Fly guy?
SGA is the heavy favorite and minus five hundred, with Nikola Jokic next at three point fifty, and then after that it's a it's a landslide. So it looks like it's going to be a two man race. SGA is incredible, nothing you can say. It's got his team at the top of the Western Conference.
By the average thirty fo thirty years straight.
But then on the flip side with Joki has been able to do team a little lord, what is his team third or fourth? Third in the Western Conference? But his numbers have been better than his previous MVP nods. So I think this is is a two man race. You're gonna go with SGA cl guy, I'm gonna go with SGA two.
So no loser there.
Most improved saw the list. Here at the top is Kate Cunningham minus two forty. Next up my UCLA brother Norman Pale out here with the LA Clippers at plus two twenty, and then there's a huge fall off. So again this is a two man race. Again, Jack, who you got?
You know, I don't eat what I do like k cunning down.
I like Kate a lot too, and he's probably gonna get it. But just to throw in a dark horse and we can't agree with everything the same. I'm gonna go with Norman pal I'm gonna go with my Brewin brother, next up defensive player of the Year, with Wimby being knocked out, and move someone else other players up to
the top. Evan Mobley, who's on Cleveland, who has what they have a top five defense, top five, top six defense, he's a plus one fifteen, Then Jaron Jackson at one forty five, and then there's a steep fall off after that. I don't see Rudy Rudy Gobert, Yeah, plus ten thousand, probably pass on him this year, jack who you got just the.
Way Cleves has been playing, and you know how solid they've been all year.
You got it.
Defense wings helps definitely wins games, and you got to give it to the guy in the middle over there has been holding the down.
Go with Evan Mobley. I'm not mad at that.
I'm gonna go with the dark Corse here, and I feel like a guy that, if I'm not mistaken, has never made an All NBA defensive team, but plays on the number one team in the Western Conference. Someone who can guard one through four.
A body full of muscle. Lou Dort, Yeah, I coached him in the Iverson game.
Yeah, Lou Dort solid. He's really come a long way with this game. Is his efficiency shooting, but just his lockdown in cinst Nation defense. If he's not Defensive Player of the Year, which he probably won't be, I hope that he is a first team All NBA Defender six Man of the Year, Jack, I'm gonna go first this time at minus one sixty. I'm gonna go with my little leprechaun homie out there in Boston, Peyton Pritcher as
the next NBA six man. Yere also other guys Malik Beasley's on that, DeAndre Hunter, Nas Reed, and Men Thompson, Russell Westbrook.
Those are the top six betting favorites. Who you going with? Man?
You know, they've just been trying to give Peyton Pitcher something for the last three four years, trying to get I'm just saying, you know everything. They champions two shots from half court. Now he the half court king, Like this is crazy. I'm going with a million Thompson, bro I'm just going with him.
The Twins, You're definitely two shots, but now he to have court king. Don't listen to that. Hate over here.
I can't let's go last, but not least Coach of the Year coach Kenny Atkinson. Man shout out to what he's been able to do over there in Cleveland after leaving the Warriors bench. I think he turned down a couple jobs leading up to this because he knew they were bullshit as teams and he probably would have been fired quickly. Made the right move. But he's the betting favorite of minus five hundred JB. Bickerstaff plus four to
twenty five, and then after that it's a landslide. So I think it's a two man race here, Jack, who you got?
I'm going to e mail man. I like what he doing in Houston.
I just I just you know, I'm from Texas board, but he may you know, has been through a lot and to bounce back to what he's doing with these young guys, got these guys playing the whata he's supposed to.
I like it. I think he's one of the best coaches in the NBA. Agreed.
I think the way he thinks and I think just the way he approached the game when he played had given him a huge.
Upper hand on this coaching run.
And what he's been able to do with a very young team in Houston and keep all those guys together. I feel like they're a piece away from really being a threat in the West.
But I'm not mad at this. I'm going to go with JB.
Bickerstaff Man being fired for Cleveland for pretty much no reason and then be able to go over to Detroit and completely we flipped.
This organization around.
They won thirty one games prior to this year and two years combined, and they're at, you know, thirty two thirty three wins this year with twenty five games to go, and again, Detroit deserves this, so I'm excited for the city of Detroit.
So I'm gonna go with JB. Bigger staff I got.
A chance to sit down with one of the most legendary photographers in the game. Has caught your favorite players for the last thirty or forty years. Take a look at my sit down interview with Andy Bernstein. I like to welcome to the show man one of my favorite photographers, a guy that's been in the business for forty plus years and just retired. I couldn't believe I heard the news. Well, welcome to the show legendary Andrew Bernstein. Thank you, Matt.
Good to see you too.
You've officially retired after forty three years.
Yeah, it took a little while. I mean four decades.
Will we see an MJ returning at an interview? Are you done done?
No?
No.
I went to see my back specialty specialist and he said, you know, I think you got to walk off the court while you still can walk off the court.
Now.
My back was a mess, and I've been struggling the last few years with the traveling and just the schlepping around a lot. And you know, I still loved doing it, and I left when I felt it was time to go. But the NBA was great about sort of weaning me off the court less road games. I was doing like every third game at home, so that it was a good time to.
Go forty three years and around all sports, not just NBA. We were talking before we got on air about you know, my team is the Niners, and you're talking about I go back with Montana and Rice and Steve Young at the old Candlestick Parks. I mean, what got you in to photography, but particularly sports photography.
Well, I was a kid, I was fourteen. My dad bought me my first camera, and I wasn't interested at all in photography. But we took a trip to the Western United States. You know, I grew up in Brooklyn, so the furthest West A forgot was New Jersey. So what I got to see, you know, the Grand Canyon and Yosemite and all the great national parks. And he taught me all the basics for a photography but you know it his film cameras and all manual stuff and all that business, and I had to just learn on
the fly, and I just took to it. It was kind of like maybe the first time you went out on the court when you were a kid and you just fell in love with the game and bouncing the ball. And that's how I felt. And I took it, you know, I took it seriously in high school, and I went to college for it at UMass in the shadow of doctor J I came in after him and then transferred out here in my junior year to a place called
Art Center and became an assistant for Sports Illustrated. And that's really where I got my on the job training, going NBA games and learning how to light arenas like poly Pavilion and near and dear to your heart and the Forum and of course the old sports arena for hockey and basketball primarily. Now, I was just in the
right place at the right time. I you know, was there at the beginning of showtime and the NBA was starting to ramp up their need for photography, and you know, Brooklyn guy, I have a little bit of myxy and me and was able to kind of push the door open a little bit, kind of create some opportunity for myself.
I mean looking back and again, you'd literally just retired in May, But can you give me possibly your top three to five moments you feel like you've personally covered. Ooh, that's a good one. Well, I mean, NBA wise, I could give you a million of them, a little probably fifty of them. But you know, I was there for Kirk Gibson's home run. I was working for the.
Dodgers back then, and that was monument eight eighty eight game won.
The World Series.
It felt like I felt like, literally that the stadium was going to crack in half. It was so unbelievable. And then Jordan's first championship, which at the time was pretty monumental because it took him seven years to get there. But none of us knew, of course that he had buy more coming. All the time I spent with Showtime with you know, Riley and Magic and all those guys, it was just amazing. And of course it was with Phil Phil Jackson for all eleven of his championships.
Wow.
So I was the first guy always in the locker room. I remember this like it was yesterday. And the first year he won with the Bulls, I'm the first guy in the locker room, champagne, the whole thing, and then he sees me in there. You know, Phil was always knew what was going on in his locker room. Second year, I ended up. I'm at the locker room, first guy, and he's given me the eye third time, and he goes,
this is going to become a habit. High Andy, I said, well, I hope so, coach, because I love the here, So you know, that was great. And then of course spending twenty years with the Mamba was as an experience was amazing. And I can't leave out the Dream Team because the Dream Team. If I could have retired after the Dream Team experience would have been a good career.
But it was just at the start. But obviously it's not just obviously photography. You're around these guys. Obviously you and Kobe were business partners and you were his personal guy.
But you were.
Around Michael, and you're around Joe Montana and all these guys in Phil and Kobe and Shaq. I mean, what was that experience. It's like you were around the greatest of the greatest across the board. Well, you know, you guys are just guys. You know, you happen to play a sport that I love, and you're tremendous athletes, all of you guys. But when it comes down to it, we all share common stuff. You know, we're all just
trying to make it in our profession. You know, I was glad to be there to help document showtime and help document the Shaq and Kobe era and Jordan era, and I think there was some appreciation of that. I guess that that some of my photos tended to sort of live on.
But I just loved the one on one conversation. I mean, you and I had I don't know how many conversations in locker room and after a game or practice or on the bus or whatever, and that's was that was the most fun, just just hanging with the guys really.
Talk to us about when you first met Kobe and how the relationship lasted a lifetime.
Well, well, he was. He was quite a phenomenon coming out of high school. Although honestly, I don't know about you, but like being on the West Coast, we didn't hear that much about him. I mean, he's a kid out of Philadelphi, suburban Philadelphia. The Lakers made this crazy trade with beloved Vladi Devots going to Charlotte and then if you remember, Vladi like threatened to retire, which would have kabashed the whole trade. But somehow Jerry West was able
to make some magic. And you know, here this kid comes out, he just turned eighteen years old, and he's in front of me on media day, and you know what media days like. It's like chaos. It's like giant circus sets all over the Laker gym, and you guys have to go from one set to the next, you know, doing an interview, in a photo shoot and a marketing thing and whatever. And he came on my set and for his first headshot in the Laker uniform, and like
any new player probably did this with you that. You know, if I don't know you. I walk in and before take the picture, go and introduce myself. You know, it's a respectful thing. I say, Hey, Kobe, I'm Andy Bersey. I'm your team photographer. And he literally is shaking my hand, looking me in the eye with those eyes.
You know.
He goes, well, I know who you are, man, you know wow? And yeah, I'm thinking it's kind of a smart ass thing to say.
You think so?
I mean, who says that to somebody? Because and I said to him, I said, I don't know how that's possible because we never met. And he goes and he literally did in a beat, he said, well, I had all your posters in my room growing up, and in that instant that it is like, but who reads photo credits.
On a poster? For God's him?
Him? Him, And I came to learn over the years, especially when we did our book together, that he just didn't want a nice poster of MJ or Doctor J or Isaiah or Magic all the guys that he wanted to be like. He studied it like, you know, almost like a surgeon was dissecting something and in those beautiful
photos he was breaking down everything. Muscle tone, Wo, what the guy's looking at you know, where his hips are in relation to his hands, all that stuff, And I know, from that moment on, I just knew there was something about this kid that you know, I was twenty years older than him at the time.
He's eighteen, I was.
Thirty eight, and they kind of reminded me a little bit of me at eighteen. Yeah, kind of a smart ass, but also wanting to prove himself. You know, he was literally a boy among men, and he looked like he was fourteen. I mean, he really did, and you know, skinny as anything, and that relationship just just built over time.
Same question I just asked before, do you have five favorites of Kobe oh Man?
Great, you got all of them. But well, there was some stuff during USA Basketball. It wasn't there when he won the gold either time, but just just seeing him around the guys was great. The famous kind of moment of Shack carrying him on his back in Indiana, I think it was Game two or something, A couple of game winners I was there for twenty ten. Was amazing. In the locker room where the guys are just showering him with champagne and he's got his arms out and
some great moments, some great moments with his family. You know, we just passed the anniversary and I was just looking back on some photos of he and Gigi together, and you know, it breaks all our heart, but I was just so glad to be there to document ad from Vanessa now, so you know, he was just he was He was one of a kind.
Really, the Achilles game versus the Warriors. You were in that building, what was the energy like when that happened.
I had never been in a place that size that you could hear a pin drop because everybody knew something happened. It was such an innocuous thing. As you remember, you made a move and boom went down like a ton of bricks. I was on the other end, so I actually had a good angle and had him actually towards you, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, but he was like on the other other side of yeah, And just like the sea parted and I was able to get a picture of him going right to his
Achilles in the moment. And then Gary came out, as you remember, and and they go they go to the bench and of course, you know legendary mamba fashion, he goes out and shoots the free throw. But I honestly, Matt, I've never really talked about this, but I was so broken up when that happened, because here he is in the sixteenth season. You know, it's got to be the end. I mean, nobody in sixteenth season comes back from something
like that. And he had already accomplished so much already, and I didn't have the heart to go in the locker room after the game, and you know, he held that sort of impromptu press conference where he was tearing up. And I don't regret that I wasn't there for that, but I was there in the hall when he came out with the crutches and the girls were waiting for
him and Vanessa, and it was a poignant moment. But he he came out of that you remember Gary Vety had that door side side, and he came out with a smile on his face because his girls were out there, you know, and he was positive. From that moment on, he had his moment of of concern and worry, and I'm sure he was scared, scared that that was the end. But and then just I was there for his rehab.
I was actually there when he got the when doctor Latrosh took the took the stitches out, and I was telling him, look, you got to take it easy, you know, you grab this boot.
Definitely gotta tell him that. Some say that night kind of gave birth to the Mamba mentality. I mean it was always the Mama, but like you said, to think, you know, you're thinking it was to be over. I think a lot of people probably had similar sentiments to you, like, this guy's accomplished everything, He's won all these championships.
There's no way he's coming back.
And I think he's the one person we both know that once he turns this on to something like there's just get out of the way.
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I think mom in the mentality was definitely there before that. But for him to come back and be really stronger than he was when he went down, I won't say he was as strong as he was, you know, at the height of his career, but for him to not let an injury define when he was going to leave the game and to come back as strong as he did, you know, drop sixty in his last game out, I mean crazy, who could write that. You know, we're in Hollywood, nobody could.
Have written that. It's amazing outside of sports. Some of your favorite excuse me, outside of basketball, some of your favorite sporting moments you've been able to kind of be a part of.
Oh, yeah, I've been. I mean, as I mentioned the Kirk Gibson game. Worked for the Dodgers during that World Series. I think I shot three or four Super Bowls. That was super fun. It was around some really good college basketball. I used to cover the USC women's team when Cheryl Million and when Lisa Leslie was there. Love covering that. And back in the early days of my career, I covered really anything that everything I can get a credential for.
You know, if it was women's field hockey or water polo, I didn't care because I needed to be building my portfolio. You know, many of the international events that the NBA has done. It was at the first McDonald's Championship. Being in the NBA bubble was quite the experience.
The whole time.
I was there fifty three days. Yeah, fifty three days. I was there for the end. So when the very end of the regular season playoffs and then into the finals.
Interesting time. Yeah, let's let's go through some of the photos you've taken that we kind of pulled to the These are early ones of me. Oh, those Clipper teams, now we're talking. You were around those Clipper teams a lot. I was. Those Lob City teams were very talented. We just couldn't get over I mean, I think we couldn't get out of our own way.
Yeah.
That was a fun team and a fun time in LA. It was kind of a time where code was down a little bit, yep, and those Lob City teams were exciting. This is I think the last time we played against each other. Yeah, I was Memphis.
He was there.
He had just gave the twins a Jerseys. I don't know if you're in there for that.
Yeah, got a picture twins my picture?
Yeah that is your picture. Yeah, but I'm saying I'm not sure if you got the picture with him twins because he gave them and they were only like seven eight years old.
Maybe.
Yeah, that was that. We saw you everywhere. Yeah, No, you just weren't at our games. I mean, how often how many days a week would you be at Staples on a good week.
Well, I became the director of photography for AEG which at that time was just Staples Center when when it opened, actually before it opened in nineteen ninety eight, but ninety nine when the building opened then of course got the theater. So my company still to this day in the twenty fifth year of being on the house photographers for the complex. So I was there a lot. My office was in
the building. I mean, if you know where the Laker banners are in the upper concourses, a bunch of offices back there.
I was.
That's where my office was.
And uh so I was there for every every Laker home game, every Clipper home game. And I've been the LA Kings team photographer for four decades.
You saw the great one.
Yeah, so I was living there, which wasn't great, not conducive to family life with you kids growing up at you and then when I'm not there, I was on the road.
Yeah, so that's.
A tough life. I mean you mentioned at the end that that that grind is what kind of pushed me away from the game. I felt like I was missing so much time, and I mean your schedule was more hectic than mine because I just had to go online. You have to go crubb the entire you know, realm of the league. So yeah, now the NBA was great, but they they push it. They work, they work it.
And you know for the Grammy trip for example, when the building shuts down. I mean I'd be on the road, you know, two weeks in a road doing nine ten games, and then they'd be like, oh, well you have a day in between, go to s cars. Don't do that game.
Did not take a breather. I did enjoy your day off. Yeah. Man, that's my rookie year.
That's man.
That two thousand and two or three. Wow. Old school Clippers And that is definitely old school because me and Baron Baron just got here this that's what we believe.
Run right there.
That was that was you know, I left that out because and they should remember that was one of the greatest runs that I really ever part of. Really Oh to see you guys like kick Dallas's aid home on that I was there for that game. Baron had that dunk over Carolinko. Yeah, that's my picture. And the excitement in that building in Oracle. I mean, they talked about the Warriors, you know, the Steph Curry Warriors, which we got to take our hat off to.
But what you guys, it was different.
Man, little engine that could be different.
Energy, some more iconic photos.
Wow MJ and his dad Kobe, And.
Yeah, yeah, there was some moments when you kind of look back. I mean like for me, this would be like looking back at like old game footage or something like how do you I mean, obviously it's fresh, but like, what are you going to miss about? I mean, you had one of the greatest jobs anyone can ever ask for who was a sports fan. What are you going to miss the most?
Yeah?
I really miss being around the guys. I missed the routine of getting there, getting the arena at a certain time.
I had a very strict routine. Great crew that I worked with, you know, would set up everything for me, you know, seeing all the fellas come in and Kibbittsen in the in the training room with Gary Venie and then Gary, all all the fans that I knew, both teams courtside and of course the referees and all that stuff, and then you know, getting to game time and then locking in and being there to record truly the greatest
athletes on the face of the earth. I mean, I know that's a cliche and David Stern loved talking about that, but it's it's really true. I mean, as a photographer. Professional basketball athletes are our.
Gift, absolutely, and we were thankful to have someone like you capturing those moments. Before you get out of here, tell us a little bit about your podcast, Leedens of Sports.
Thank you. Well, listen, man, I'm just trying to grow up to be like you. Well, you know my partners. I have two really close friends who were partners, both
in the sports business in different areas. And you know, we were seeing about ten years ago or so that a lot of guys were struggling post retirement, and the spotlight had moved off of those guys and not only did they might not make the big money back and we're talking like, you know, eighties and early nineties, but they were struggling and they were forgotten about, and we wanted to kind of shine the light back on, not just to the stars, but the guys who might have
been part of you know, if you think about the showtime Lakers, seven eight guys come to mind, but they were like forty guys who won rings in the eighties that people might not remember. So we saw sort of a little bit of a void in the sports content landscape. And I didn't realize that I really loved doing what you do. Was sitting there talking about stuff, I mean,
learning about people where they started. I actually started a show on Time Warner, which was you know, previous the spectrum on a Laker channel called Through the Lens, where I would just sit and talk to a Laker personality Genie Buzz, Gary Ved, James Worthy, whoever about their career through my photos. And I never thought I could be on the other side of the camp. I never I never envisioned it, but I took to it.
I loved it.
And Norm Pattis, the great late Norm Pattis who owned podcasts one who you remember, sat courtside right in the middle. This guy always had the program A crazy Laker fan. Became a great friend, and he became a mentor, and he was helping me sort of call this idea of Legends of Sport. And he calls me over before he gave He goes, Andy, I saw the show you did on the Laker Network and I love it. It's great, it's great you're talking to people. And I said, thank you, Norman.
He goes, I got to get that on my podcast network. And this is like ten years ago, and you know, I'm still working this photograph, and I said I looked, literally looked at him. I said, Norm, thank you for that, But I don't know what a podcast is, you know, i'd heard the term. He goes, It's like radio, but just longer interviews. And I said, well, Norm, with all due respect, you know, I appreciate you wanting me to, you know, take this to your podcast network. But it's
a visual show, like we're showing pictures. Can you curse on the show? You can, right, so he says. So he says to me, he says, Andy, nobody gives a shit about the pictures. They want to hear the stories, he says. They want to see the pictures. They go to your website, they go to your instagram. I said, Norm, let's do it. And the next day literally went down to his office in Beverly Hills. We hammered out something and here I am doing a podcast and we're in.
We're in, you know, deep into season seven regulations. I do know, two hundred and sixty or so interviews, and I love it.
Yeah, I love it too. I love it, yeah, I love it.
For you.
Before we get you out of you, I'm gonna put you on the spot one last time, your favorite event that you've covered, favorite event, Only pick one across all the sports, all the greatness she saw, I'm gonna put you on the spots. Oh, that is a tough one.
Actually give me two.
Well, I really I'd have to say when the Dream Team won the gold medal in Barcelona ninety two, that was really amazing because I had been with them all seven weeks, documenting every step of the way, lived with those guys, and we all knew they were going to win, but the moment was, you know, when the flag goes up and they got the medals on them, they're like insane.
So that was so great to capture that. And then you know, MJ's first championship was unbelievable, but I got it really pointed twenty ten for Kobe's fifth ring, which he was the Beams.
Because they lost to Boston the year Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and he you know, and it was devastating when they lost in two thousand and eight, and he said at the time, he said, I'm not retiring until I beat the Celtics.
In the finals.
And so they got there and that was such a monumental series. The Game seven at home, he didn't have a great game.
As you had that shot, right, yeah, but.
In his greatness he was able to defer and you know, Meta hits that shot of out of nowhere. So it was such a great moment to be there and my wife is there, my late mother in law was there, and you know, have family there and be part of that was really amazing.
Well, Andy Man, it's always been a pleasure working with you, speaking with You've always just been one of the one of the real good guys around the game. Man, And we appreciate your forty three years of greatness. Thank you man, great joy, enjoyed retirement life, Thank you new for you, and thank you for all the moments that you gave me on that.
I appreciate that.
Yeah right. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Unplugged. You could catch this on all the Smoke Productions YouTube and the Draft Kings Network.
See y'all next. Weak Grace