Phil Handy | Ep 89 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

I'm glad we finally got to link We've been trying to link in and get you on here for a minute. Shout out at home girl Michelle. It's her birthday today. I was just on the phone with Yeah, so uh. Anyway, Man, let's get to it. Obviously was a disaster outside of you guys winning a championship. What do you occured about halfway through the year at this point, man, from a basketball standpoint, because for me personally was like probably one of the best years that I've had individually for growth.

That's the first time in my in my basketball career in the last twenty years, I've had a chance to sit down and do absolutely nothing. So I had I had a great time to reflect and I spent some time with myself, Spence, some talking to my son, and really just kind of died back into my family a little bit. So for me personally, that was one of the best things that could have happened. Basketball wise. Yeah, you know, every I think the world knows the challenge

that we had. But um, we came out of that bubble and the season started so fast for twenty one and it really it was just all about, man, how do we manage this season? You know, how do you manage the season? How do you try to keep guys healthy, how do you how do you get rest? You know, how do you build up your team and just try to get through get through a season that's you know what we call a sprint. I mean, you guys both

played in the league for many years. Eighty two games was crazy, but seventy two games in that span and we just played every other day. So really just figuring out how to get through the season, survive, you get through the season and come in, come into the playoffs healthy and give yourself the best chance to try to defend your title. Man, that's from the top right now. Um. Thoughts on the playing tournament, Obviously, one of your players was not a big fan of it. Bronz said, whoever

came up with the idea should be fired. From a coaching perspective, in the standpoint, where was you what was your thought on the playing situation? Um Man, I always feel like the playoffs are you gotta win games? So whatever, you know, you put us in a position where did we want to play in the play in the game last night? Uh? Not necessarily, but man, those type of games kind of tell you where you are. You know you are you ready for the playoffs? You know, are

you ready for that mental batt that battle? Are you ready for the physical? So for me, it's just you gotta win a game. You put your hard hat on, prepare yourself, you know your opponent, and go win the game. That's that's what you know. I think a lot of people try to say, well, you know, let's play this team and play that team at some point in the playoffs. You gotta play whoever he is your match up. You're gonna have to play. You got the game plan and

you got to go out there and win. That's what it was. That's what it boils down to me. For me, And even though it was a playing game, how thrilling was it. Let's playoff basketball? Man, it was tough and your ship was up a hu from any game last season I do. It's a problem, man, it's a straight up problem. I don't care game plan. You can game plan.

He just Draymond to you know, people, people give Dramond a lot of a lot of problems, but he is one of those dudes that figured out who he is, figured out how he needs to play, figured out how can I play at a high level doing what I do best? And that's yeah, I'm gonna have an imprint on the game. I'm gonna go over five. I might have two points, but my imprint is gonna be all over this game. And you look at him and him and Steph and they were just disruptive the whole game.

You know, two dudes, no mind, You don't take anything because the rest of the team. Those guys play hard, they're playing well, they figured out their roles. But those two dudes, man, are disruptive. And staff is just he procesaw one clip the whole coaching staff. Man, we're on the sidelines. J kid like Hollins, Frank myself. Steph was

running in circles. He had a d and a Alice Carus are running around we on the sidelines, yelling and pointing and screaming, like, bro, that's what he does to you, like if you let him get loose, and even when you don't let him get loose, think about now it's just him, But it used to be having to worry about two dudes running around like that. You know, that's

what made them so unfair. Where you have to step will start running all this way instead of screen for Cli even Clay Poppa hit it, you know what I mean. So as a monster, this is kind of you may not have the luxury of being able to do this because you're so in the moment, but you've been able to see Lebron and stepth going each other in the finals. You had a great, you know, playing situation last night.

Do you ever just kind of sit back and realize, like, man, we're watching two of the greatest players in the history of the game. Go at it? Are you kind of more this coach mode? We got fuck them? It's a little bit of both. I mean, Matt, like you know me, you know, we had some time together with the Lakers. I'm ultracompetitive, like I'm old school, like we on the other team. I'm not trying to talk to you during the game. I'm talking ship to you. I'm trying to win.

But also on the flip side, there have been times while I'm actually selling the bench man said, man, I who am I watching? Playing? Real? Talk like, like from a perspective of just understanding we love the game and the guys that were around and guys that you guys play with, guys you played against. Right as a coach, there have been time I'm sitting on the bench like, man, forget coaching, I'm just enjoy this game, Like I'm watching these cats play at a high level, and you know,

iably one of the best to ever do it. You know, Brown is one of those dudes, man, where it's just it's incredible to be able to see what he's done night and night out, you know. And I've spent you know, six years with him, but going through that four year stretch when we're in Cleveland and going to the finals every year, playing against Staff and and Clay and Katie

when he came, that's incredible. It's a lot of it's a lot of buckets on one court, you know, and then you throw Kyrie in there when he was in Cleveland, you know, and just all those other people. Man, But but being able to sit back and watch this dude

every night. Sometimes sometimes I'll be on the bench just like this, like the living room, and I'll tell people all the time, and I got one of the best seats in the house, you know, And had a lot of luck and just landing obviously grinding to get to where you're at, but fortunate enough to catch Kobe coach Kobe, coach Lebron, coach Kauai and coach Lebron again. I mean, you've got three rings as a as a coach, But like I said, somehow you land on your feet in

great situations. But you mean you're just accustomed to go into the finals now, you know. I mean you went, like you said, four years in a row with Cleveland, then you go with Toronto, then it's a year off. I know, you went right with the Lakers, right right, So you've been to the finals. What the six years? Look at you? But what's that ride been like? Because some people never make it, you know what I mean?

And obviously I know you appreciate it, but to consistently go six years in a row with three different teams. You've won with all three teams. What's that experience like as just a man and a hooper at heart? Man, that's um one is unreal. Man. I look and you guys both know, you know, having the careers that you had in the battles and the playoffs. Like for me, um one, it gives me chills, man, because I think about the journey that I've been on. I didn't play

in the NBA for a long time. One I have a I have a like a real deep appreciation for the journey that I've been on because of because of how I became a coach in the NBA. You know, Mike Brown obviously gave me an opportunity. I wasn't a dude that was that was you know, had a long NBA career. I mean I had a long basketball career and played overseas. But I've always had this thing of for me personally, man, I just I want to compete

to win. That's just it's in me. Um And you know that doesn't always work out like that everybody does. But when I got to UM, I got to the Lakers. You know, again, I was obviously at the end of Kobe's career, going going into it. You know, we had our struggles with that team. But when I went to Cleveland, Mike got fired and he asked me to come to Cleveland.

One of the things he said to me was, you know, um one, we want you to mentor Kyrie to that there's a chance of Lebron might come back to Cleveland. Who knows. So I went to Cleveland. My first year, we were terrible. Dogshit, We're just young team trying to figure it out. And Bron came back the next year and we went through that season ups and downs. You know, kay Love was getting in the ready whole script, and we ended up making to the finals. Once we got there.

For me now like walking into an oracle. Going back home from there, that first opportunity was just like, man, this is crazy. And when we got there, all I kept saying to myself was, man, there's nothing else. There's no other feeling that you want. Now, look, it's not guaranteed, but I've always wanted to put myself in a position where every year I want to be part of a team that's trying to compete for a championship. That's my mindset. Competitor and man, people, you know, and some people say,

you'rein chasing what you call it, whatever you want. I want to win. I'm not in this for money or you know what I'm I'm a purious to the game of basketball. So what opportunities can I put myself in to where we can compete for a championship. And you know, I went through that run in Cleveland kind of like I went through a spell with my time in Cleveland kind of came to a you know, it came to an end. I was there for five years and then

it was like, what's next. So, you know, I knew bron was was leaving out of the East and Toronto had been a team that we have been competing against, you know, for years in the playoffs, and I always kind of felt like the only reason why they couldn't make that home was because Brin was just every year and then to run into him at some point in our teams. So when the whole thing shifted, you know, I played for Nick Nurse in Europe, so Nick became the head coach and I looked at Toronto said, man,

they have a team that can compete. And this was before I looked at the mar I loved this game I love Kyle Lowry, I love some of the young players that they had, and I said, man, shoot, it's the East is wide open. There's a chance there. So when the opportunity presented yourself, I said going to Toronto, Nick wanted me on the staff man. Two days after I signed my contract and agreed to terms, I woke up ESPN Troynto Raptors have traded to Martin Rosen for

kau Bro. I was like, come on man, Like you said, man, I'm like, I'm like, come on man again. The highest just just utmost respect for tomorrow because he's a he's a Cooper competitor. And you know, I didn't know Kauai, but when he came to came to Toronto and saw that he was healthy, I was like, look, man, we gotta we got a real chance. Bro, you have a real chance. And so that year went the way it went. You know, I have a seven year old son who lives here in l A. You know, Bron me and

Brian always kept in touch. So it just it worked out for me to come back to l A and we go back to the finals again. I couldn't I couldn't write this story right. The only thing I can do is one be grateful, you know, because like you said, it's not guaranteed. I have a lot of respect for a lot of coach is coaching the league for thirty years. Some have never been to the finals. Some I've never been to a conference finals. So I don't look at this journey and say it's been a cake walk, you know.

I'm just looking at Sam and I keep my head down every day, keep grinding and keep working, and just try to try to put yourself in the best pusiness I possible so you can do compete. We'll get back to detail about some of those teams, but let's get back to your journey. UM Oakland, California. A. UM, that's about your about your upbringing and how basketball came into your life. Oh man, I'm the youngest of uh. I was the youngest of seven siblings. My parents old school.

So my father was one of those dudes many he was. He was one of the very first minority owned business owners in Oakland on the construction business. So Pops was up at three o'clock in the morning going to work. And so for me, his his whole process was you're not gonna play basketball you're gonna learn how to work hard. Summertime, where was I three am? I was in the car

with him going to work. So really the moral that he taught me how to work hard, For one, he gave me tremendous work ethic, but the whole upbringing basketball basketball was like an afterthought. Man. I had to sneak out by the time I turned sixteen, seventeen eighteen, you know, I had to really sneak out and play because my father won. I grew up in a very religious household,

so I couldn't go out on Friday nights. I couldn't play basketball Friday night, which you know, high school basketball, big games, So I couldn't really play high school basketball. I didn't get a chance to play because of my religious beliefs at the time. So Friday night I was at home. I didn't go to dance, I didn't go none of that. So I had to find ways to sneak out and compete. How do I play au Once of my parents got me a car, it was over, you know, dip out and go where I want to go.

But for me, basketball was just like I had to get away. I had to get away to play, and my love for the game was just at a high level. Um. I grew up in a great family, but basket ball was wasn't something that was prioritized in my family, so I had to figure out ways to get around it. But as I grew I got scholarship, you know, I went on to play professionally. My father became a big fan of what I was doing, and so once that happened, that changed the whole trajectory of how I perceived the

game and how I proached it. With my possible behind me, it was it was a whole different different story for me. Who were some of the influences you had growing up on the hoop? Court Man? Dr j was my man growing up back in those days. Man, you get up on Sunday morning, turn on the TV. When I say turned on the TV, wasn't no remote, Get up and turn the TV on? Who be on? Plan Boston and Philadelphia ABC? So I grew up loving Doc Man. I grew up loving Jordan's you know, Jordan was part of

my era. But the guy that really inspired me as a young kid is Walter Davis. You gotta be a real hooper to know who that is. Walter Davis Greyhound. I'm looking at both of y'all faces like I've heard the name. I'm just not familiar world where, so talk to me about him. Walter Davis Man was like he was just a smooth cat, jump shot, mid range. So he was one of those dudes before that era of MJ. You know, I used to call him the Greyhound, So I was. I was a big fan of his man

growing up. And then you know, Dr J and m J. Man kind of kind of solidified for me Greyhound, And then I was a fan of Grand Hill too. Hill was to Hill was nasty money. What was the basketball culture like in the bed been the Bay when he's growing up, it was nasty Stack. J Kidd, G. P. B. Shaw, Greg Foster, Tonio Davis. You know. So the WHO culture in the Bay was it was pretty Steve Nash was going to college there, um j R Jr. Righter, So

the whole WHO culture. You know, you think about l A, you think about New York, you think about certain certain places, but but the culture in the Bay was pretty deep, you know, and it was with some heavy hitters. San Francisco program used to be used to be on point back in the day. Keys are It's a small, sweaty gym, right, tell you about it, man. Yeah, you know, so those are legend but talk to to to the level of competition that those keys are games, because those were NBA

level summer league games. The Warriors had a team in the in the program, they had a team like their rookies, their young players. They would send them over there to play twice a week. And so the league was was full of NBA players, it was full of European like high level of your players would come home and it was ultra competitive. Man. So as a young boy seventeen nineteen twenty, you had to wait your turn to get on the court. You want, you want on those teams,

you might not play, you know. So you sit on the bench. You're watching j K, You're watching GP. You watching these dudes plays. Man, Can I get some just can I get some burn? It was, it was. It was a tough get up for the summer league. When did you know that you wanted to pursue playing basketball in college? The first time somebody offered mere scholarships, I wasn't sure because I said I didn't play I didn't play high school basketball. I played maybe five games in

high school basketball. UM. I went to junior college, and that was when I really had the opportunity to figure out if I could play. I knew I could play because I play organized basketball, So I went to UM. I wanted to went to Scotline Community College and ended up, you know, making first team on State San Francisco, right, and then all these scholarship offers started coming. I was I considered myself as a late late bloomer with the game.

But the first time I got a scholarship ball for I was like, Okay, it's real now, and so I really started taking it more serious, and I was just like, man, let me pick one of these schools, let me figure out. When I ended up going to Hawaii, but it was it was just an opportunity of like, all right, but let me see what I can do with it. But you had an interesting story while you went to Hawaii. Can you tell us about that? You didn't bring that,

oh man. So the crazy part about it. At the time, you know, I was pretty close to going to Cal Berkeley. Jay Kidd and Lema Murray were playing there UM and I was at the Juco across the way, and uh Cal was was showing heavy signs of interest, and I was I was ready to commit. So one of my boys, man playing Juco with me, didn't have a scholarship opportunity. Hawaii was like recruiting me super heavy. So they wanted

me to take my visit. You know. Hawaii was like, look, you take a visit, you gotta commit, you know, we we don't just fly people out here. So I said no to that, but I did tell him. I said, look, my boy don't have a scholarship, so if you guys give him a scholarship, I'll come to Waii. I tried. Nah, I was bluffing, and I was bluffing to like to like get him off the trail. And so they were like, well, we're gonna get some film on him. They got the

film and they signed him first. They signed him first. Hold on. Now, let me tell you the real cold part about it, that I tried to back out of it. My father got wind of it, and as old school as this, and no, sir, you gave these people your word. You're going to Hawaiian stand on it. Stand on it. Man. That was one of the hardest lessons for me because I didn't want to do it. I tried to back out of it, and I tried. I really was just like, no, I'm not gonna call the cozy coach came to my house.

Was sitting on the live room couch with my father. When I came home one day and was like Pops like, hey, you're gonna sign that scholarship over. I was like, now, what are you doing in my house? It was a route. So you were about to go to cow with j Kid and Lama Murray in Hawaii and up in Hawaii. You know, they gave my boy scholarship. We both went to it and you got your man in school and that that really happened. So that's dope that that ship was.

What the biggest thing for me though, is it taught me don't open your mouth. I don't say stuff that you're not gonna follow follow through on. Because my father really he helped me to the fire on that one. Man. So you end up choosing Hawaii. Uh, your dad said you're gonna honor your word. You go out there and play. Um, how was that experience? I was dope? Yeah, man, it was. It was a culture. It was a culture shock for me.

So you know, you go to Hawaii, people don't really understand like the Asian culture, the Samoan and Polynesian culture, and you don't mix them too up neither. It's a problem. Man, Listen, it was. It was a good culture shock, but it was a culture shock. And then just being on the island. You know, you can't you can't go anywhere. You know, you drive around the island in three hours and you're back at the school. But that part was cool for

me because of just the one weather. You wake up and go to school every day with shorts on, you wake up, go on campus, females got bikinis on. It was experience, no complaint none. So draft, you happen to go undrafted, but that's the hell of a draft. Obviously, KG just inducted Hall of Fame, Joe Smith, mcdice, She'd Stardomyer, Mike Finley, Brent Berry, h Man. Hell of a draft. So pick up basketball late junior college Hawaii, hopes to make the NBA. You don't get drafted. What's your immediate

mindset after you don't get drafted? Man, I didn't even know, Matt. I had no clue. Really, it was just like, I want to play basketball, but I didn't know what the next steps for you know, it wasn't it wasn't like I had a bunch of agents knocking down my door. So for me, uh, you know, b Shaw was kind of kind of crucial. You know, Keith Jennings, Mr. He was crucial. You know, Molly and Tim Hardaway, them dudes were really crucial to like being in the community. Molly

was a hooper, he would play anywhere. Hardaway would play anywhere. And Keith Jennings was on the Warriors squad and he like took me and some of my friends in and we would hoop with him in the off season, and you know, he was the one that was really like, yo, yeah, fella, you you have some talent. You can play at the

next level if you really apply yourself. So when I got out of school, all I did was work out with him as much as I could work out with him, stayed in the gym, and uh, the opportunity that really changed everything. We had open run at Club one downtown Oakland. You guys played for the Warriors Club one that used to be serious run. So we were in the hooping one day and b Shaw came in and b Shaw we knew each other, but we didn't know each other too well. But the run was so crazy that I

was just trying to go at everybody's head. Anybody stepped in the court, I was trying to go at your head. So b Shaw stepped on and I hate to tell this story, be, but you know I tried to go at best head the whole game. Yeah, we ran him up, We ran him off the floor, and then I went and sat down. And so after one after we want, I went and sat down. So I'm done playing. So bees Man Glenn Graham. Glenn was like a trainer. He said, look, man,

I need to I need to take you. I need to work you out, Let me build you, let me put you in touch with some agents. And that just opened up the door for me. That year was a lockout that he was a lockout. So the Warriors had they had a free agent camp and they had lockout end. Look, we're gonna fight twenty local dudes come to camp, and we got two spots to go to training camp. Man. I went to that camp. Feast of Famine was like, let me go in here and show these people I

can play. I was one of the two guys that got selected to go to free agent camp, and it was just once I stepped into that camp, Man Spree took me in. He was on that pretty well, Tim Hardaway, Chris Mullen, uh Ronnie psychicly b J arm Song. It just got traded to the Warriors. Mark Price was there, so it was a team full of vest year that put his hands on Oh boy. That was the year after that. That was the next year. I missed it. That was but that opportunity, like really, Spree took me in.

Hardaway took me in and they they was like, you know, just putting the battery in my pallet. I'm fella, man, you can you can do something. You gotta continue to work getting the weight room. And once I saw that that piece right there, I just kind of took off on me. You know. I stayed with the Warriors for a small part of the season and I went and played in the c B A and U. Once I got to the c B A, I just took off. Had a great season, you know, made the All Rookie team.

And then next year I came back and I went to the Portland Trailblazers. I was in camp with them and spent part of the season there. And then after that, I was just like, man, I just want to hoop. Now I don't care, so now I want to hoop. And my agent was like, listen, man, there's a lot of teams in Europe that paid great money and they want your services. And it was I was like, all right, man, I did the NBA. I made it. Felt like I made it. I compose that. Now I want to hoop.

What does that mean for me? So I went to Europe and never came back. I spent eight years in Europe. Man, I traveled the world. I went to France, Italy, Germany, Israel, Paine, England, Australia, Australia by far? Was it Australia by far? Basketball or just life? Everything? The hoops seeing down there is amazing. In Melbourne for one year and Sydney for two loved it like I still go back. I got deep roots

in Australia, man. But the league down there is it's in the summertime, English speaking country and they try to they try to their their whole design of the NBL is off the NBA. So they got a TV show, they got TV games. It was a dope experience, man. To be able to travel travel around the world and and and kind of you know, have a career playing basketball. It diversified me. Man, that was the best thing that could happen to be. You had a lot of game though,

just because you didn't have a long career. I mean, like people tell stories about you back in the Bay like feel like feeling hoop, you know what I mean? And that was always the word. I mean we were talking about you earlier with raised It's like now I feel the Summer League was loaded. But if you had feel on your team, you had a chance. How many other problems on the other team like you had a chance.

So now appreciate the games you could definitely who But obviously traveling the world, did you see any players that really like stood out to you, like overseas legends, anyone that became legends. You guys, you played against him that was in France, Tony Parker was he was tiny, little dude. Tony Parker Patriots MP coop coach Jack had NP gangbanging fresh had of France. Yea Andrew Gay Games. I played with Andrew Games. So played with Andrew Gays, played against

Shane Hill, you know, narc Cooperman. I've seen some of those younger dudes when they were when they were really young. But like TP was the one when I saw him, he was just like sixteen seventeen years old and he was running around shooting floor. You running just fast, just fast. And just to see him years later coming to the NBA C Coop coach. You know, these dudes were young.

They were young kids when I was over there, man, So it was um, you know, and I had a chance to play some some good countries for some really good teams, some EuroLeague teams and things of that where they played at a high level and it wasn't a slout. People have the wrong conception of what European basketball is about. It's tough over there. The problem, you know, sometimes the European players come here and it's a hard translation. It's a different style of play, right you go to Europe.

Some Americans have a hard time translating to where they play over there. It's a tough translation. But I think that was the best thing that could have happened to me for my career. In seven, I was I had to go to Australia and I played in uh for the Sydney Kings, and I was talking about Andrew Gays. This was nineties seven. Man, he's shooting from half court. I'm telling about head for the gray hair, head for

the gray hair bucket. This man was unreal. Un him and Shane Hill with some of them some of the best shooters I've seen in my life. And I've seen that in Australia, so I can. But they were a problem. No gas, you know, they no gas over there. They were playing the way stuff and those guys like you had to they crossed half court, you better pick them up and everything. Their teams were predicated around making sure they get shots off. Eight years overseas you said, when

did coaching come into the picture for you? Man? I never think I was gonna be a coach. Just start. Hold, let me take it back. When did you Because you started the training space right, started started the training space and then with transition. So when did how did you go from a player right to trainer? Well, basically started giving people bag. See what it is is a lot of guys played basketball, but they don't have nothing in their bags, so they got bag. So they went to

the field to feel their bag. You know, when I was in Australia, I had some some parents of the kids, saying, you know, kids are like big fans. Would you would you train them? You know which you could you do some workouts with them? And I started doing like workouts with some of the kids. I pull out a garbage can send them through some else. Man. Every time I left the gym, Man, I felt I just felt renewed,

Like it was a whole different sense of purpose. Like I got to a point to where during the season, all my off days I was trying to I was trying to train kids like I would leave the gym man and felt like I felt like I did something. I had never felt like that before. It was a totally different feeling for me. So when I when I retired, you know, I was just like Man. My last year in Australia, I was really just gonna take a year off because I had played in Europe for eight years.

My parents were getting older. You know, when you play over there, you're gone for ten months, so I spent some time in the state. So so let me take a year off and spend some time in the family. And I was gonna go back to my team. You know, we had already set up a multi year deal for me to come back. I took that year off. Man, it was like, I'm done. I'm not going back to At this point, I was thirty one, I was young, you know, thirty one, and I was just like, I'm cool,

I'm done. I didn't. I got to a place where I knew I was not mentally in that space of what taking care of your body, having to lock in watch what you eat being I said, man, if I'm not gonna be able to do it at the best of my ability, and I'm done, I'm finished. And so I walked away from it. I was like, all right,

what's next? And I went into real estate for like a year, just some investment, educated myself in real estate and God would have do with by one of my partners, and started buying properties and and I was like, after about a year, I was like, no, it's not for me. I was. I felt like I was missing something. I was missing the game man. Me and Tony Dealk used to work out together. This is how my career in player development kind of started. You know, me and TV

used to work out, hooped together. Again. He was with the Warriors, and when I retired, you know, TV was like, man, you know, let let's get some workouts in. I was like, man, I'm done hooping. He's like no, you know, he was living in Phoenix at the times, like come down here and you know, let's get some work in. Put me through some workhouts. And I would and spent a week with TV, and man, we got some great work in. I went home and TV was like, look, we we

gotta do this for the rest of the summer. So I would go to Phoenish from Sunday to Thursday, go back to the bay Sunday and Thursday go back to the bank. And every week TD had more due show up to the gym. Eddie House, you know, I Anie House, Sean Mary and started coming at the time. You know Stackhouse, I mean our stack house, but Stottemeyer wasn't Phoenish. They all these dudes started coming to the gym and I was just figuring out how to work these dudes out,

work with them. And TV was like, listen, bro, you have a knack for this. The way you see the game and the way you dissecting your drills and all that stuff. Bro, you need to you need to seriously consider jump into this business. And at that time, this was two thousand three, basketball industry was nil. There was a few dudes. Gustus is your mentor, my mentor. Gus was one of the very few people right that was

doing it, and he was doing it for years. Matt Right, So you man, I used to go to the gym. I said, man, let me, let me go down here and learn from Gus. And Gus took me in, Let me be in the gym. He gave me a voice. And at that point I knew. I said, man, this is what I want to do. And so I I just laid down the foundation. I started a business. My very first client, true client, was a kid who lived in Marine. You from the bay, I mean from the Marine is way out there stack And at this time

I was living at eld Raddo Hills. So it was an hour and forty five minute dry huh Marne County game from one of my first kids. I could charge his kid five dollars. Man, I would drive hour and forty five minutes. It cost more to get there. It was more to put gas in my car. I charged that kid twenty five dollars and let little did I know, I didn't know much about the Marine area. That's one of the most affluent counties in the country. But yeah,

I didn't. I didn't really understand that I trained this kid and this kid became one of the best players in the county. It opened up the floodgates. Next thing you know, I'm training high schools. I'm training a U programs. So I went from one kid at an hour or two about fifty kids in about a two month span. And I was probably charging these kids fifty dollars a session. It was taking the trip to see what people don't understand. Man, like my journey in this in this business, man, it

would at my over a thirteen year of span. Brothers, I did this for thirteen years. And the way it built, you know, it started with that one kid. I would be a marine. I would be at Stanford, I would be at U. C. Davis, I would be at St. Mary's, I would be at cow Berkeley. I had all these different pockets to where on any given day during the week, I'll be driving five hundred miles to get into different gyms. The whip was the office for my bags from my cones.

But it really got to a point where I just that was it for me. Man. I was in the gym fourteen hours a day training kids, and then it eventually started bleeding into NBA players, college players, European players, and it became a full blown business for me over thirteen years. And that was like my calling. I feel like to this day, sitting here on this couch, that's what I'll put on this earth to do, is to tease the game of basketball and try to inspire people

through that. Through that channel, it's real for me. So, I mean, you're one of the best, are you worry? You still are, but obviously have a bigger time town. But you're one of the best trainers in the game, you said earlier than coaching never even came to mind. So how did that transition from training to coaching happened? Man? You know, Matt I when I started, I like, I had a lot of bad coaches myself that that really deprived me confidence wise. Like you know, we've all had

coaches that try to tell you down. And I went into the business of wanting to train young athletes to help build their confidence. You give them a platform and say, look, this is what you can do. Put it into hard work, but you can, you know, let me give you some confidence. Um, I started working with with St. Mary's College, and the first thing I said to myself was, look, I'm gonna go in this intage. I want to be one of the best to ever do it. That was my mindset.

So I started training St. Mary's College. Randy Bennett and Mike Brown were college roommates. Know, so Lloyd Pierce would do some workouts. This is how Lord Pierce started NBA. He went to Cleveland. Randy sent him to Cleveland and go work with Mike in the summertime, and then Lord Pierce ended up on the coach and staff. So Mike went through that whole thing, and then he got hired by the Lakers. And I was coaching St. Mary's. I

mean not coaching, but training their players. And Randy was like, listen, man, you have to take this job. And at the time, my business was booming, like my training business was booming. I work when I want, didn't work when I didn't want. I had clients all over the place, and I was just like, no, I'm not interested. We took up pay cut to go to the Lakers did. But here's the deal, man. I got to a point where I was like, Lesten, you say you want to be one of the best

in the industry. Then you have to see what that looks like. In order to see what that looks like, you have to work with the best. The opportunity to work with Kobe was the deciding factor for me. That was it that pushed me over the airs to say, man, you have to take this opportunity to forget about the money, forget about what you're leaving behind. You can always go back to it. I was ten years ago, ain't been back with Loki summertimes. You still do it? Yeah, you know,

and now it's more out of just passion. But that decision. I wanted to test myself. I wanted to see, if you know, the things that I'm trying to teach and the pieces of the game and I'm trying to help people with, is it valid and is it value? Yeah? You know, I know I work with a lot of NBA players, But can you can you help somebody like that?

Or how do you help someone like that? Is the question, you know, And it wasn't even so much, you know, how do you impact Mike hired Man and said, look, you gotta figure out how to get the relationship with Kobe. That's what he told me Matt you know so man, you were there, I mean, you know, And for me, it was just the opportunity yourself just to to get get there and learn and figure out what that looks like. That was. That was what would push me into And

again I didn't know anything about coaching. Remember our first day of training camp mat that first day when the blockout ended bro my head, I thought my head was gonna explode stack all the information. That was the first time I had been in that environment of understanding offensive breakdown Mike and Mike Brown is it. And so I was sitting on the sideline that day while he was just walking to him, and I was just like, no,

what is this? And that was our transition from fields last year having cancer to Mike Brown the very next year. So and Mike and Fielder that day, you know what I mean. So this this Laker team as an attitude of you know, I went off two championships, we lost. I feel retired. And then Mike Brown came that next year. But it was just like night and Day and their philosophies in their approach. So it took a minute for

motherfucker's really buy into what what the game plan? Was, But what over more than that, What was it like actually trying to be friends teach, become one with Kobe? Well, you know, I looked at it like this, though. Man, I had to I had to try to do that with all you guys because I didn't you know, I knew you a little bit briefly. But but how do you how do you come into a team environment and and understand each individual player and figure out how you

can help them or work with them. Man, I think the code thing was b Shaw. I told me. I called b Shaw when I took the job. Shout out, listen, man. Be was crucial. He said, film gonna tell you just like this, do not let him punk you. No matter what. Do not let him punk you. You stand up for yourself. He's gonna test you. And so I didn't really I was like, all right, cool, I don't really know what that looks like. But I got the job. I didn't really speak to Code, you know, I just I did

my job. I got to the gym early on the floor and did my work with the players I was working with. And there was a couple of days where Cold would come out, he come out of training room, he sit on a chair and watched he watched me, and he go back in the room and nothing was said of it, and really didn't really develop a relationship with him until a couple of weeks later, you know, when he finally he hit me one day on text. Was like, yo, man, just meet me at the gym.

You know, I told this story a few times, but you know, he was meet me at the gym, and I was like, all right, bet let's go. And so, you know, I showed up at the gym that night and he was like, meet me at the gym at five, and you know what that means. I showed him that night thinking we was gonna work waiting for this dude was not there. So I was like, okay, this is what we're on. I didn't say nothing. I went to practice next morning, you know, showed up early, seven thirty,

practiced at ten. Man that man came out giving me, hell, hey, bro, the yelling and what the funk you're doing that week? You know you ain't showing up for work. And I was like, man, I was here. You know, he was no man, not four forty five and PM. I meant this morning. And so that for me, manro it messed me up because I was like, damn okay. And after that, you know, the relationship started. And you know, the first question I asked him was, man, what what can I

help What can I help you with? You know, yeah, I'm looking at this dude like, man, I'm here to learn from you. You know, it's kind of kind of thing. And he was just like, man, I want to get better with my ball Helen. I didn't even get better with my ball haleing. Sprinkle some stuff into my footwork, and and that was just how it started. Man, you know, gave him some things on the ball haling and and he was the type of dude that was like, look, I'm gonna take what I need and leave the rest.

And he told me exactly what he wanted. It was my at that point. It was my up to me to put it together and and and up him as best I could. But that was that was the ultimate challenge for me, and to be able to build a relationship with him, you know how it is matter It was just down that wall. It ain't easy and it really is just just one just tried to beat myself, you know, and be as organic with it with it as it could how did you and pay drop Bard

the Lakers? This one right here? Me and Matt was straight, bro, it's already cool, Bro, we were already to come up the sack. So my trainer was his mentor, so obviously Phil around. Like I said, we didn't know each other great, but we had seen each other. So once I see him, like, oh what's up? And then this, like I said, this is the ultimate workout. Due. So I'm just like, let me give a film, see what I could do. Get a lot I've been trying to get, trying to get

the twins with it. For me, it's busy winning man. We're gonna get it. We're gonna get it, Bro, We're gonna get it for sure this summer. Yeah, definitely. So from the Lakers you head to the Calves. So you go from Cobe to ky Re at the time, and then Lebron ends up joining. So what was that treasures like?

Going from l A to Cleveland. It was tough. Um, it was tough on just a lot of different reading, right, because again, my first opportunity to come into the league as a coach was like I'm going to coach with the Lakers, you know, And so Cleveland was it's just like, man, what am I going to Cleveland for? You know? And and really I had to really start to shift and understand what the business was about, right with the business.

So Mike, Mike got fired, d'An Tony came in, you know, and the Lakers were going through a phase of uncertainty, you know, those few years it was just what are they gonna do? And so I give miss cup Check a lot of props because he called me into his office one day and said, look, the Calves of the Calves are called and their interesting interview even and I really think you ought to You ought to look at

this opportunity. We don't know what's gonna happen here. He could have he couldn't have said that, you could have just let it play out. He said, look, I think you ought to really seriously consider this opportunity if they want you, And um, I went did the interview and and Mike offered me the job. And I think the real the thing that that kind of sold me on it was I didn't know Kyrie, I didn't know to care from out and I hadn't really studied this game.

But when I started watching film on him, I was like, yeah, I want to work with this I want to work with this kid Man and Mike I had already put it out there. That's what that's that's what we want you here for. It was I was the best. That was probably the best move I made in my career and making that decision to go and do it, because again, it helped me help me validate just my thought process on how to train and how to help how to help players get better. It validated it. And and Cole

was he was. He was instrumental in that. I say you were. You were instrumental in getting Kyrie and Kobe together. Tell us about how that happened. Yeah, man, kay was kay was slippery, bro, he was, you know, he was. He was slipping when I first got to Cleveland. Man, Kaye tried to hit me with the hit me with the bat phone number and you know, not answer the calls. He was slippery, you know, and rightfully so he didn't know. He didn't know. Yeah, but Scott was guy just got fired.

So he was he was angry. You know, here we come in. He's like, man, like, I don't know, Yeah I did. I did one workout with Kyrie and then he disappeared right, gave me some number they never checked. So I got through this process. I was like, all right, look, I'm gonna have to reach this dude another way. I knew we respected code and CO really liked his game,

and so I just hit Cold one. That's look, man, I need you to I need you to mentor this kid like I really need you to to to to go and if you're okay with it, like give him some energy. He's like, bet, I got you. I like it. And I told Kai said listen. We finally sat down and talked, and I had to fly to Miami to talk to this dude to like, listen, man, I don't want nothing from me. I don't need nothing from you except for you to learn how to work. I want

you to pick up the phone and call Kobe. He did, and they went off to the races, and it just you saw a mind shift. He saw a shift. Cold really really took him in and kayle Man just bought into the work and that changed. That changed his whole his whole approach to the game and just understand how to take care of his body right off the court, being in the weight room taking care of so he doesn't be as injured as much, but then challenging him

to understand what the work means for your game. And once he saw that it was over, he just took it. He just took it to a whole another level. He got the biggest he got the best field bag. He got like, nah, Stack, I can't even I can't even let it go down like that, got a bag of

his own. Now, what we did. What we did was was fine tune his bag exactly to where he started really locking in on details of his footwork, of his balance, on how to get how to get guys off to where you can get to a spot and get to your mid range, how to be able to better finisher, how to pull up at the three. Once he really like honed in on the small details. Man, Bro, he wanted the coldest man. Listen, I will I'm you just

coached the beast. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, he is probably one of the most skilled dudes to ever play this game. Like like skill standpoint, Bro, he scored all three levels. Right, most guys you know they can do it, but he scores. He's a little to be on the post getting he definitely get people post you shoot the three, shoot the mid range, like you said, stack get he going left right? Yeah, man, he's um And he was just missing one thing, the

work ethic. He was missing the work ethic. And then you know, as a young player, what do you miss? Then you miss another alpha, like somebody that can really kind of kind of help you, King James, bring the beast man, let me let me take you to a

help you go to another level. So what was it like there was a whisper it could have possibly happen when it actually happened, Lebron coming back to Cleveland, what was your thought process and how excited were you to kind of okay, so now we got Bron for Kyrie and let's see what we can do. Man, that changed the whole organization overnight. All right. We went from you know, being a young, young team to trying to figure out

how to win games too. Now you catapulsed into the finals, like okay, the whole projection and there, man, man, Cleveland's on top. And again I didn't know Braun, I had no relationship with him whatsoever. And um, you know, just another one of those things to figure out a way to integrate a relationship. And for me, the common denominator out of all of those dudes everybody has always been what through the work on the floor. That's it, right,

because that's my that's my number one thing. It's just let's get the work in the rest of it, the relationships that we built, because you're gonna understand who I am. I'm gonna get to know who you are. But it's through the work, nothing else. And Braun was the same man his first day back to Cleveland. Now I sat down and asked me, said, man, where where where areas you want to improve? Where you want to get better? Now?

How can I help assist you in that process? And Brown was just like, man, I'm footwork ball, Hanley posted, I want to get better at everything. And I will say this to this day, man for somebody of his caliber, that man is a student of the game and he wants to be coached like he he wants to be uncomfortable to continue to get better every day even to

this point. M hm. So what was it like, I mean, you as a coach, being there obviously on the outside looking in you here, you know that there was some head button with Currie and Lebron as a coach and as someone who worked closely with both of them. What did you see Because obviously, like you always hear ship from the outside, but I've been in locker rooms right here, stuff like that ship ain't even close to what's going on. So from being on the inside, what did you see

between that dynamic? Man? You know how to meet You always try to portray something that's not there. You know you have you have too. Two dudes that are playing at a high level. One Brian came in with the mindset of trying to trying to help and adjust the kyrie, Like, look, man, do us you dynamic? I need to I need to figure out how to play with you, and we need

to figure how to play together. There was no issues, like you know, it's normal stuff you go through a season, right, dudes trying to figure out how to play with each other. They didn't have any issues none. And I think what happened in the media is whatever. You know, they painted that picture and you know the storylines a ran. You know, people can flip it anyway you want. But them two got along, man, they got what they're best friends now were best friends, but they got along right and there

was a relationship there. Obviously, the relationship was there. We were winning. You know, you guys have seen enough of it where two guys that don't get along that's just spills over to the court. They don't don't go that way. Man. They were, that's one of them. That's one of the most dynamic duels man ever put together. They were. They were as dynamic and different to complement each other's games, right,

And I just think Kai is one of those dudes. Man, he misunderstood a lot of people don't really know him and understand him. We've been that way, you know. I mean a lot of players get that, get that rap when people don't actually get to know who you guys are. What takes the time part, Because like I said, I didn't take the time to get to carry and I made some misconception. And like I said, I'm trying to

admend to that now. It fix that because like I said, for him to love him, for Color to love him, for Michelle to love him, like, there's gotta be something special about this dude that my family knows something special about him, dude, and I think he Kai is a you know, he maybe he wanted ultimate competitor to you know how people sometimes they grow and they want to figure out if they can do things on their own, right. That's that's normal. That's normal. Man. I appreciate you, big bro.

I how to find out. I want to find out what kind of what kind of dude I eat? Or I could be right? So your first run Brown because of back fifteen, you guys make a run to the finals. Unfortunately Kai and kay Love aren't there. You guys get beat by the Warriors. What kind of a learning experience was it? Getting there? Not being at full strength, but

still getting there? Man? All about competing? Really, man, it was really we had a and Matthew delave Adova, tough kid, you know, we had j R. Smith, Emmons Schumpert, Tristan was rowing. We had to god our team, you know, Kyrie and kay Love he was parts of it injured. Man. We just thugged it out. That was that was really

the mentality. Tell you, man, People don't even Matthew Dellavedova was on I v S after every game because he was given everything he had on the floor, Like he was literally on I v S too to rejult his system. After every game, Bro, People don't even know that, like, and for us to go shorthanded, I mean at one point in that series we were up to the one. We went back to Cleveland, went back to Cleveland, we were up to the one. I mean, we were competing,

but you know, just just shorthanded. And I think it taught us really about one when you get there, it's not guaranteed, and you don't know, you don't know if you're gonna make it back. And so that whole next season, man, we just health was important. You know, you gotta you gotta two things. You gotta you gotta have a little bit of luck and you gotta have some health. People think it's all talent. Luck and health play a big

part of championship runs. Man, they do, and unfortunately sometimes either on your team or it's or it's against you as as a cold part of the game. Because I mean the Worriors got a little tasted that the following year. So in six team coach Black gets dismissed. He little takes over. You guys are down three one, Um Draymond gets suspended. You guys making amazing at this the seventh seventy three and nine team going for the greatest team of all time and you got stuck a fork inn

down down three one, Draymond is suspended. You guys make a comeback. What was that experience like game by game being down three one? What was that locker room and vibe like, man, that's a one game singular focus after game for the game five, game four three one. After game four in Cleveland, the locker room was calm. You know. Look, t Lou and Brown were at the catalyst of that. Their mindset was like, man, if you guys don't believe we can go to Oakland and win this next game,

do not get on the plane. That's our focus, anything about nothing else. We got one game to win. And that was the attitude really coming out of the locker room. We left that night. Everybody got on the plane. It was a business trip. They were locked in. The dudes were locked in just to the moment of we gotta win this game tonight. And Kyrie and Brown went out there and put on the show boy. That was nasty, man, but it was nasty, and they were just tip for tat,

just tipped for tat. It wasn't and the team really just again, you know the part of Draymond being kicked out of that, you know, spend it for that next game. It's just like, no matter what, we have to go here with the purpose to win the game. Does that help the situation? Absolutely? Draymond man impacts the game the way he does. But regardless, we gotta go win the game. So y'all put your shoes on, get your hard hats on. Man, let's let's go out here and play. And it was

just like one game at a time. Man, that's really it's hard. You know, we've all been in that situation right close out games and whatnot when I go home. So you guys were able to walk them down win the championship, first championship in fifty two years for Cleveland Sports. What would that experience like to to to win it in that fashion? Uh? Against you know, like I said the words of seventy three and nine that year, man asked one. There's there's so many storylines. I'm from the Bay,

you know, bron from Cleveland. To be able for Brian to come back home and encompass that. You know, we're the only team in history to come back in the finals three one. There's so many different storylines in the city of Cleveland was lit, man, Cleveland was lit. People talk about Cleveland amazing city, and my time there was amazing. But that city and the whole state was lit. Like if you see the pictures, Man, it was a couple of smith didn't wear a shirt for a month. Hey, rightfully,

so rightfully? So, man, that's the pinnacle right there. But now Cleveland was that experience to this to this day. That's to me, that's still my the most memorable one for me for just just how we had to do it, the process. So you guys obviously make it back running to the Warriors again, Katie jumps ship and goes to Golden State. What was it like playing against those Warrior teams? With all that we're talking about it earlier with how

tough it was chasing stuff around last night? But add Katie to that mix, add Clay to that mix, and all them boys is hitting on all cylinders? What was it like going up against those Warrior teams? And you just shake your head, man, I mean, bro, it's um they were game planning for them. You know, I give you f Tlu a lot of credit. Man. Our coaching staff, like t Louise, very very savvy and some of his approaches of trying to slow them down. You ain't are

you what are you gonna do? You have to try to slow them down, and it's just you know, you got three headed monster and let's let's legit, man. We just we just try to compete as best we could. You know, you try to put yourself in a position where one you have to try to make them work on the defensive end, But really, I mean, what can you do with that? That was those were Those were some tough, some tough battles against a against a team that just had a lot of firepower. But the thing

to me that people don't talk about enough. Yes, those three dudes and who they are, but we really made them great with the freaking players around them, role players and dudes really bought into their roles and they did them roles at a high level. That's what made them three do so so old, dynamic, and even harder to guard because the other dudes on the floor smart, man, they were smart. They knew what they were doing, they knew what to play, they knew when to try to score.

Egua Dolla, you know Livingston Barbosa, you know David west Bogan, you know David Lee bro I mean, all of these dudes were just cerebral players, and it's just people didn't give enough credit to the to the supporting castle they have. So your Cleveland, your time in Cleveland, Uh comes to an end. You end up going to Toronto. You you told us how you got there. Um, what was it like getting to work with Kyle Lowry and and and and Kauai and on the build up to that finals run? Yeah? Man,

it was Toronto was Toronto was a dope experience. Man, that's a dope city. Great people who man, great great city. I got a couple of kids out there. I thought I did, but out uh I think. Um. I had a misconception with Kyle Lowry, you know, just playing against all the years, he's just he's an irritant, right, And I hated coaching against him because he just he messed with the game. He knows how to mess with the game. Cepts.

Those dudes, man, they know how to manipulate the game, super smart and so playing against him all those years, I was just like, man, still get on my nerves. But once I got to Toronto and was actually in the gym with him and saw what his process was about every day what straight pro like pro every day man on it. He competes every night, he leaves it on the floor for his teammates and just a stand up dude, like like an incredible, incredible dude off the

court as well. So my respect for him and is at a high high level. Um again, I didn't know Kauai. Didn't know Kauai from Adam that never had a relationship with him. And he he is not what people think, you know, just from the sense of his personality. Um, his Kauai got a little bit of he got a little bit of comedian in it. Man of that ship go around listen here, l a dude he is. He is. He is in l a dude like through and two and when and when you're around him, you know and

you get to know him. Oh man, he is not what people think. B But Kauai is cut from the same cloth as cold as brown, as m J. Like, he cut from that cloth in the sense that his work and the first time we worked out together, um, you know, after the trade and stuff cleared, you know, I reached out to him and said, man, I'm I'm just excited to you know, get with you and try to build. And he was like when you come in to San Diego. And we got to San Diego and we got in the gym, and he's just a a

little coach. I'll just tell you like that, I like the gym quiet. I don't like people in the gym. I like to get my work in. That set the tone right there, set the tone. And he is just one of those dudes that like really just about getting better. You know, he wanted He's like, Yo, I want to get with COLDE. You know how when when can we get with cold I'm I'm trying to trying to get

that that process. So we got what We went went down and spend some time with Cold just and he was always luck man, I want I want to I want to figure out this post up stuff. I want to get my footwork round. I want to get my handles right. You know, I want to be able to be able to shake dudes free and create. And he was just really one of them dudes. Man. It just student of the game. You know, people think he's not a leader. Leadership comes in different ways, right, It's not

always vocal. Example, he shows up. No you're not perfect, but he shows up and he works. He's a worker, He is in the gym working on his craft all the time. Man, and just a competitor. He wanted to do as it compete man. It was it was a great opportunity for me to again work with some work with some other guys around the league that I didn't know. So you guys make this run to the finals. Um, what was it like in that series leading into the

finals against Philly? Kauai hits that shot that takes like seven seconds to actually go in the basket. Um, How what kind of series was that versus Philly? That was the most physical one of the most physical series I've I've been a part of. Yeah, that that series, man was tough. They prepared us, you know for like every round that we played in prepared us for something. But they they prepared us. They were physical as ship man Like Jimmy Butler, you know, he was a big part

of the team. But Ben is been is a physical dude. People don't understand how physical. They don't understand how physical being is. Being is physical and beat is big. You know, their whole team, they were a big team and us they had to bias, so they played a big lineup, and so their their size was a problem. And so what they do was, you know, they stuck in beat on Pascal, which Colin you know Pascal year man, he was he was giving people problems at that fourth spot.

But you know, and b was so big, you know, he could take away some of his drives, take away his post ups. So they kind of kind of nullified him a little bit. And they just they threw bodies at Kauai, you know, Jimmy guarden him to Bias guard and being guard him. You know, they had multiple guys and it was a it was a physical, physical series, man. And as you can tell, Game seven I think could win anyway. It could have because it really Philly. At one point they had us down two to one, right,

they had us down to one. We had to win game four in Philly or they would have went up three one. And that game Kauai just he took that game over at the end. But that was a that was a must win game for us, and I think that right there was the turning point for the series for us in the team because they were they were they were at our heads, man, because we won game one and they won Game two and three and they won them games emphatically. It wasn't like they were Yeah,

they was beating us. So it was game four was it was a he was adjustment. Adjustment. But um, that Philly series was one of the toughest ones I've been a part of. And then you spoke on earlier. You needed a little bit of luck and obviously grind and talent. You guys run into a warrior team that that it's a little bit banged up and not to your you know, not not your fault, but that's just how it was. So to be able to go in there, and then when that series, Katie comes back, gets hurt again, Clay

tears his knee. At the end of the day, you guys end up winning. What was it like to be able to help bring the first championship to a country? You know, the fans up there in Toronto, they are crazy, crazy and and loyal. We got back to Toronto, I thought the parade in Cleveland was crazy. Man. It was three and a half million people in Toronto for that parade. It was that like you said, Matt, it was it

was a country, not a state, not a city. The whole country was put on and it was That was a dope experience, man, to be part of that, to be part of just seeing where they came from, you know, the culture of how they built the franchise and and then losing so many years in the playoffs to us in Cleveland, that was a dope experience. Man. What was the energy like when Drake came around, No huge ambassador, big fans, that's right by the bench with that energy, like, man,

you know Drake is one of them dudes. Man, he just he put he gonna put the battery in your pack man for us and you guys know you're on the sidelines. He he was an agitator too, as much as anything. He you know, that's why the NBA was giving him, giving him a hard times in time. He was an agitator to opposing teams and players and he talked big ship. You know, he wanted them dudes may

he talked. He talked a lot. I think for the players, man, just they all fed off his energy because he was you know, that's his team, that's him, that's his city, that's his his love. Man. I think it was it was just a perfect storm, that's what it was. It was a perfect storm. And like you said Matt. The injuries to the Warriors were you know, it's unfortunately. I'm the type of dude if I'm always feel like you want to try to compete against the best and win

against the best and play at the high level. But but injuries happened, and why everybody else was talking that and no, so listen, man, we still got to win these games. We have to win these games. Don't matter who's on the floor. You have to win the games. You've got a chance to work with great sweet we

we've detailed, you know, a handful of them. Give me one word when we ask when we say these players names, that comes first thing that comes to mind Kobe and one word ship Momba, rest in peace, sight, Kyrie, Swiss Army, knife compartment, Swiss Army, Like just what this skill sets Swiss Army could do it all. Lebron man complete mm hm m hm complete as a picture of a complete player by far Morely, they call him the terminator dog

like like that's that's real. That's like when I think of him, when you you you actually think of Kauai's movements, how are yeah? People think he's robotic, but that man like determinator for real, Like like he carries that, I'm gonna tell a story to me that's personified. We were down to all against Milwaukee, you know. Nick Nurse came into the locker room said, you know, we we're gonna make some adjustment. We'll get back to Toronto and and

we're gonna be ready. And Kauai said, the adjustment is I'm guarding your honest we walked out the locker room. That's it right there. I remember that ship. Uh, what's something you learned from just being able to work those or guys out about yourself. I think they really respected my my work ethic, and for me that was something that I wasn't aware of, just my work ethic, and they really they respect just to work my work ethic more than anything. And for me, man, just it taught me,

like I said, man validated. I've always wanted the validation of you know, just just knowing that the way I think the game and the right way, yeah, right, the way I try to help players. Just validate knowing that you're doing the right thing to see what I even think.

I don't know if you realize, but that probably goes even back to your playing days because you said, right when you went to the Warriors, who took you under the arm, the two best players, Tim Hardaway, it's pretty well they don't have to do that, so they must tell you how hard he works, you know. I mean that. To be able to translate that into everything you're doing, I think that's dope. Um your return to the Lakers, How did that come about? And how's it been? Man?

You know, it was hard to leave Toronto. Man, Toronto was you know again, And even with Kauai leaving, I was. I was locked in for three years. It was it was hard decision to leave. But I think that the the biggest thing for me was, like I said, I have an eight year old son who lives here in Los Angeles and being able to be close to him, that was that was the main, the main priority. And obviously, look the Lakers were We're putting together a championship caliber team.

And when I left the Lakers the first time, you know, I walked out of the building saying I want to come back here one day and be a coach on the front of the bench and I want to win a championship here. I left saying that, and to be able to come back and have that come to fruition as in all things too. You know, again the championship caliber piece was a part of it, and do we

have a team to compete coming back here? So it was again that was another thing that was kind of everything was was nicely wrapped, but my son was was the UH was the biggest, biggest part of that decision for me. So you returned to the Lakers um, like I said, obviously was a mess for all of us. We lose code at the beginning of what's the team's energy focused like and then the drive to actually winning

it the year he passes. Yeah, at first it was tough, man, It was a tough That was a tough adjustment for the team because you know, you you get through that initial stages, you know, the first few days right, kind of get used to it. But every time we went on the road, teams did a Kobe tribute every that that season, So it was it was tough to kind of kind of put it behind you. But I think, um, once we got to the bubble, you kind of felt like everybody's uh motivation and then they pulled out their

mama jerseys, They pulled out their Mama Jersey's dog. You saw just a whole different different for someone forever reason. Man, they they played at a different sense of urgency. But you kind of felt everybody was really really pulling, pulling in that direction, man, and trying to do something special. When you reflect on Kobe and his memory, what what stands out? Man? His realness? His realness? Man, he was

he was misunderstood man. People. I asked him one time, Matt Like, I asked him, I said, why you're such an asshole? I asked him that. He said, you really want to know? You know how he was, And he said to me, said, Phil, Man, some of my teammates don't understand the work. He says, So I see dudes walk into practice ten minutes before practice and they leave right after. Why the fund am I gonna pass them

to basketball? I don't respect the work ethic. I'm in here busting my ass every day trying to perfect my craft, and these dudes, these dudes don't want to work on the game. I don't trust him, So I'm not gonna pass on the basketball. I'm gonna ride them hard every day. Made perfect sense when he really broke it down as to why he is the way he is with certain dudes. I was just like, I respect that, bro, I respect that, but his realness in the sense of, you know, he

told me. He was like, look, man, you have you have an ability to connect with people. Don't do not concern yourself with what people think about you. He told me that, man, and just and that sunk in. It sunk in. He said, look, you got to move the way you move to make sure you do your job, make sure you're professional, make sure you study the game, but don't be concerned with what people think about you. And that stuck with me ever since since I've been

in this league. He was a pro that I laughed when you said the five forty five thing because I automatically knew five forty five in the morning because I just have to go out to Orange County and what TI, what are you wanting to meet you at the track? Like Nick, it's still dark. We're talking about we got run. We gotta run, and we gotta hit the gym. We hit the gym and lift so hard I felt like I couldn't lift my arms up. And then we gotta go shoot for like two hours at like the Worth

experienced it. Matt I ran through you. You experienced people don't. People don't really understand like what that was about with him. Yeah, he respected you. He sucked with you if they like he said, he would have me come out there, we go work out, then we go have breakfast and everything. And like I said, I know he didn't let too many people do that, you know what I mean, to be able to get that side of him was doping.

It's funny because I asked him the same questions like why don't you ever show I didn't say be an assholes, Like why don't you show the world how dope you are and how you are with us? And he looked at me and he said, I can't let the motherfucker see that, you know what I mean. It was just like that constant always go because you know, you know, and a lot of Kobe as cool as funk. I

was talking to him, he would talk back. We'd all talk and joke on each other, but you would if you didn't see that, you would never know he was probably similar to quiet. You would never know that. That's what kind of shift he's on. Man ultimate competitor. And I know you remember that day right practice when he was second unit when y'all was tearing Bro. He was pissed. They were beating up brakes off and talking to and it was like just one game. It was like one

game that Co was like running back. It was the second game running back, and then it was the third game, and then finally CO said we did and practice. Man Cod flipped over tables. He was cussing everybody. Bro. It was he the whole thing you're supposed to were supposed to win the championship with, y'all start with this unit, you know, I mean just getting under the skin. He was pissed at practicing end first of all. And once we called it, I think it was flipping over tables,

water containers. He was heated. That's funny. I ain't talked about that. Yeah, I remember that day. It was funny. What was the NBA bubble and championship run? Like, man, that was one of the hardest things I've ever done. For a long other day. It was hard in the sense of, you know, just being away from your family comfort zone, just just different. You don't have your normal stuff during the season routines or players routines where everybody's

routines were just throwing out the window. But I think the hardest part it was was U one, the no fans thing took. It took a while to get adjusted to that, because where you generate energy from things, you know. And so I'm gonna tell you, man, we had a crew like Dwight Howard, JaVale, McGee, j R. Smith, Rondo and them dudes on the bench. Bro. They used to they generated so much energy, like the energy that they brought Javelle and Dwight alone them Bro, they were like

teens screaming fall out. So the challenge was, you know, just just being there. And but again we had a special group, you know, we had a bunch of dudes that felt like that stuff to prove. Rondo, the White you know, Broun, you know, even a d like our whole team, you know guys, we felt like they had stuff to prove. And so the mindset of them dudes, man, we're here for one reason, we are here for one reason, and wants to layoffs started. Man. They just they automatically

clicked into that. Them dudes, when I say, they were as bought in and as much involved in our coaches meetings as we were. Like Rondo used to be in our meetings, like just like like for real, man, they were brought into trying to win um and it was it was really just generating the energy. And then again, you know, once you get into that part of it just I think it was some some ways it was easier because you didn't have a lot of distractions, but you know, on the flip side of that, again, you

didn't have your family. Your comfort zone was gone, so we just we had to find ways. Man, through that four months, it just really a long time, a long time to be on the resort. No, look, the NBA on the flip side of the NBA did a They did a fantastic job. You know, people don't really talk about what they did to make that place as comfortable as possible. They had. We had everything we needed in there.

I mean they had movie theaters, you have restaurants, you you can go fishing, you go golfing, but you you had everything you needed. But it was just one of those things where if you were not locked into being in the bubble to to really try to compete and win, if you win in the bubble with him and I don't want to be here, You're gonna You're gonna be home soon you were done right, and so we had

we had it. I always said, man, whoever, whenever team comes into the bubble with the strongest mental fortitude, it's gonna win. You're big on mental. You're big on mental, especially at this level. I mean, because I don't think people understand how important mental aspect of the game is. I'd say nine of the game is mental at this level,

especially when you get into the playoffs. Right, you get into the playoffs, you lose a game that you're not supposed to lose, your mentals has gotta be You gotta be right to wherever you can. You can you can readjust and bounce back quickly. You spoke on Rhando being in the coaches meeting, How instrumental was he coming back because he wasn't gonna come back. I don't instrumental was he coming back in the playoffs in the bubble and obviously helping you guys win? Yeah, we didn't win. We

don't win that trip with a Rondo. And you ask anybody on that team, coaches, players, front office, man. Rondo's probably one of the smartest i Q basketball players that ever lays up shoes. He shot the lights out to listen, and people people give him flat for that. Rondod can shoot. He just don't you know. His gravitation is to do what he does right, play, make involve other people. Man, that man is a maestro straight up. He is a basketball savant in his sense of his dissection. You know,

Rondo argue with you. I got many arguments Rondo, you know, because he his thing was like I studied this ship and I'm black man, so do I you know, our whole coaches staff, you know. But but but that's you want. That's what you want, man, you know, as a as a as a coach and organization and and just you can win with dudes like that. Doc said he used to have to give him as a play card before the game. He said, Ron to be looking at the play card calling Ship before I even call Rondo. You

try to put some that's saying teacher team. Ronda already on five or six different counters. What the other dudes is still trying to figure out the basic part of the play. But he's a he's a different breed man. It how special talent the unicorn, Yeah, unicorn, that's what I said about I called him. Tim Duan on Rod man, stack you, I don't even think A D is special. Man. He could do it seven ft trouble pass, shoot, post up, handle. Man, he's special. And I don't even think A D realizes

how special. And what I think great part about that about him is he's such a good dude. Yeah, good good dude, got a great family. But I think A D has an opportunity to He's an NBA, He's an m v P caliber player. And I'm talking about the way he can he can really dominate the game on both ends, Like he cleans up a lot of stuff, UF man, and he's just special talent. Man. They call us, you know, they call him the unicorn. The second time around with Lebron, Um, how special has been being able

to work with him and win championships with him? Man, that's been, Um, that's been just like for me, a great Like I said, I've always had the mindset of learning from players. Um, you know, as much as we as coaches try to try to help, And I've learned so much from bron just from commitment, Like his work ethic is insane. The way he takes care of his body is unbelievable. That man is literally in the weight

room three hundred sixt or five days. He might take time off the court, but he is doing something to his body every day to keep himself and he's just Uh. I think the misconception is that again that he's you know, he's a coach, he's a gm man, he's coachable a right.

He wants to be coached, you know, he want to be He want to be challenged in that way, and I respect that that part of it is because he's never shied away from being uncomfortable in terms of trying to trying to reinvent himself and continue to stretch his game beyond what people think he can do. But he's um, he's just a coachable dude, which is to me the most important piece, you know, because even as coaches, he looks us in the eye, even you know, a coach,

whatever you need, whatever you want to coach. But at the same time, he also knows what he wants and he knows that the ingredient for him to be successful, what he needs around him to be able to compete and compete for championships. So that's rare to right, understanding what you what you need around you, what kind of team you need, and then being able to being able to execute on it. Being around him a lot. Obviously banged up a little bit this year seeing the kind

of work he puts in. How many more years you feel like he has under his belt until he doesn't want to play. That's how man, Until he doesn't want to play. I'll be looking at this dude like, bro, when you're gonna slow down until you don't want to play? And that's you know, that's testament. That's what he does with his body, man, how he takes care of himself. Talk to us about business that you've been able to

create outside of basketball. I know you're working. You have an app that's that's up and run and talks to us little bit out the business side outside of basketball. Yeah. I think, um, you know, I think the platform that that we all have this industry is sometimes it's not used properly right, And so I've always had this passion of of what do I want to do with the game of basketball and be able to just share knowledge.

I use that phrase all the time, really taken what God has blessed me with and try to help the game. There's a lot of bad trainers out there. It's a lot of it's a lot of bs out there with training and in the whole basketball world. So I created the app. You know, I've had a lot of coaches and trainers reach out to me over the years about my philosophy and what have I done, and so the app is the place that I was like, man, let me, let me put this together and make it because I

can't be everywhere, I can't do as much. But the app is a global thing, you know. Game app is that's my passion project, that's my lifelong work right there of being able to take you know, this whole system and formula that I've tried to create for training and put it in one place where kids, coaches, trainers, players, everybody can have access to it to help. Again, I'm I'm not saying that my way is the only way

to teach, but this is what made me success. This is what made me successful, and so that's what the app has been about for me. What it's called game app? Where where can they get it? There? You can get on all platforms, and you know it's real when you can get that ship anywhere all platforms. Man, We're just trying to make it as available to people and as feasible to people to Again, if you really want to figure out some detailed training, you know that app is

a It's a great tool. And I'm not just saying it because my app. We put a lot of work into it to make it very easy for people to use. Congratulations on that. Appreciate that advice to young coaches trying to break in this trainings and development of guys. There is no there is no blueprint, There is no there is no everybody asked what's the path? There is no path. Everybody's journey is different. Mine is different than any other, you know, any and everybody's journey is different. And I

always tell the coaches that it's not instant. You know a lot of people think you come in or you you have an opportunity to coach in the NBA, and it's just it's instant, oh man. I mean some guys start out being video coordinators, some guys start out being interns. Right, and even when you get the opportunity to be in my own experiences, is I locked into my job? I wasn't looking at being a bench coach. I wasn't looking at being a second assistant. Mike Brown, what's my response? Abilities.

All right, I'm locked into that. Let me let me kill that role. I think coaches have the same responsibility as players. We all have a role as a coach. Let me stay in my lane and do my role. And I think, you know, people come into the league, or they try to get in and say, in five years, I want to be this. Five years, I want to be that. Well, what if that's not the plan. What if it's not meant for you to be that in

five years. So how about you just whatever your job is, lock into that and be the best that you can be at that part of your job. And then organically, what happened, It's gonna happen wherever, wherever it's meant for you to go. So I'm always telling coaches about you know, just understanding. You know, your journey is different, and my journey was thirteen years. It's a grind, it's a real grind, and it's not a glamorous it's not a glamorous job. It's it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work.

And being okay with understanding that may not happen when you wanted to happen. Quick hitters. First thing to come to mind home stretch right here. Top five musical artists. Oh J cole Man, Jay Cosey, I'm different man. I like Jay cole I always fool with jay Z. I'm a nas guy. Um, I'm a fool with Drizzy And I'm gonna throw you all off with this one. I like St. John. I fool with St. John. Okay J fool St John Man. Five more skilled players you've ever seen?

Five more skilled Kyrie, Oh Kobe, mm hmmm, Kimla, Juan, Steve Nash. I might to put Brown in there, and that's not in any particular order. That's nice. Five that's not in particular order. U plus four going to play pick up basketball at Oakland at Oakland's Minas Park. Who are you taking? I'm taking g p J Kid, Greg Foster, I'm gonna take hook Mitchell. Boy are a legend. If you could go back to one night in your career, what would it be and why? As a player period player?

Coach Man Game seven in the Oracle when we were down three one. Um, I had just my family sitting in the stands, being a boy from born and raised from Oakland, being in that environment when it when it was over, and that was probably the most emotional period of my life for just for a lot of reasons. You know, my parents were no longer alive, but just going through what I had been through to be able

to be in that position as a coach. Yeah, that's that's probably that's the pinnacle of my career right there that night. M M. Most influential basketball figure in your life My brother unheard of Ceel Handy Jr. Uh He was my closest brother. Taught me how to play. He really took me under his wing when I was a little kid, and he would just beat the ship out

of me. Man. My my goal, my number one goal was to beat him one on one and I don't ever think I don't think I ever did that drove me, but he but he inspired me to to really take the game of basketball, try to do something with it. Ask questions, who do you want to see on all the Smoke? And yeah, you have to help us with your answer. You have to help get us you answer on the show. Had a couple of guys in your team that haven't been on the show. Yeah, throwing that

ship out there. Oh man, man boy, all the smoke, I mean, I know you're trying to get Brown on here. I know you know you're trying to get a D on guys. Um, I wouldn't mind seeing Kyrie on here though. We're working on it. Yes, sir, Well Phil Handy Man, we appreciate you, man Love, I appreciate your brothers Man, appreciate all the smoke. Special guest Feel Handy World champion,

three time world champion. You've catching some Showtime Basketball YouTube and the I Heeart platform Black Effects, and he opened if you need to put something in your bag? Oh yeah, you might have to get on the waiting list. You got something to put in your bag. Let's see you all next week. This is All a Smoke, a production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime