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pump Gala. Then we had a surprise of a lifetime b D. White down trolling the lobby, found the Big Old?
How do you find just how do you find the big right? How do you find the Big Old? Just wandering around?
And how do you get him upstairs to the room is the question he had.
Look, oh, it looked great.
You look great for like eighty five. But the fact he came in, like you know me, I got bad eyes. I had a double and triple take while we were interviewing Tim. So I mean the fact he came in. We stopped the whole show. And that's my first time ever meeting him.
We can't be super fans of Russell Westbrook and not od when big O walking Thom come on now, Big Old.
But it was great to be able to first of all, have him come in. I want to do the show sit pretty much to a whole Tim Hardaway episode and then bless us with his just knowledge. And I feel like it took him a little while, probably maybe fifteen minutes to open up.
If it wasn't a business man, he could have stayed another hour.
And then I feel like if we had more time, I think he was ready midway through the interview to just talk about his whole entire life in fact, day by day fact. So that was crazy. The one thing I regret, bro is I didn't talk to him about Kareem. Yeah.
I know, that's shit. We missed on that one.
And you know me how you don't normals like to be able to study the slides of that ship was gonna fly.
We did good. That's what Dylan Julyani. Everyone put the ship together like this.
Why we were doing the Tim Hardaway interview to have the legendary Oscar Robertson sit down man and first of all, watch the show. He didn't come on our show. That's gotta be up there, man. That's fucking this material wasn't expected.
Definitely a blessing. Something we'll hold on to the shore. Definitely, Man, We.
Hope you guys enjoyed this episode.
Mm hmm, welcome back all the smoke. L A man a special one right here. Shout out to our man, Dana pump Man. He goes above and beyond all this is.
This, goes in the goat.
Yeah, yeah, I'll go up there, up there, man, Today we have twelve time All Star, eleven time All NBA, first player in NBA history to average triple double League me p NBA Champ. Welcome to the show, Oscar Robbinson.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, good to see you.
I was flustered. He walked in the room in the tim hard and I'm like, show stops. I rubbed my eyes. I'm like him, man, it's what is life like?
How are you?
These days? Get old and we're out fashion?
Yeah though, thanks fine, you know jo John Orlando nice and warm out there, very warm. Yeah, a few storms, but you know, yeah, try to get around those. Everything you accomplished for this game, that the road you for this game. When you see that the NBA has now just recently signed a seventy five billion dollar TV contract, what are your thoughts from the days you were playing to where the game is today.
I got a lot of thoughts, but the most important thought that I have is I'm happy for the players. I'm happy that those guys are making money because when I grew up, you know, black people didn't make that kind of money right where you couldn't get jobs in the corporate America. But now they don't have to worry about that. Some guys will have a situation set up, they'll make money where their families will never have to suffer.
I mean, you know, I grew up in the ghetto, didn't have anything at all, played ball all the time, went to school, church.
That was it.
Where did your passion for the game come from?
In nineteen fifty one, I believe my older brother Bailey had a shot against Anderson High School and got them into the first championship for an all black team from in Apisentana. And from that point on, man, I was just I was driven.
Your lawsuit against the NBA in the seventies. Did that lawsuit in some way, shape or form kind of create the players union?
No, it defined the players. You know, we had been doing a lot of things up to that point. I mean I was there for about nine years and been trying to get certain things done, mail moneys which was eight dollars a day, the hotels, air traveling, all these things, and so finally we got to go to court. But we went to court originally to be to stop the ABA from joining the NBA. That's what it was all about.
And then these other things came about about players' rights and whether or not if you had a contract and you want you didn't have, you didn't have no other connection to a team, could you go somewhere else? The NBA said you couldn't. They said they had to pet your rights to you forever, which was not true.
What are some of the things as a black star that we take for granted, but you struggled with early on in your career.
I often said this lot to a lot of people. The draft hurt me. I'll tell you why. Because I went to a team that was in disarray, you know, and here, hell, I'm coming out of school. I was playing of the year, of course, but I had to
carry them, you know. I had to sacrifice my game to make it taken, to make us a unit, and and and it's a it's a And then after I got there, the press can be very difficult for you when you're a start, especially in certain areas of the country back then, they want you to win and want you to do well, but they don't want you to do too well because they don't want to write about that. The first year I was there, I was thirty some points a game, and they didn't hard to mention it.
They mentioned other guys getting fifteen points and this and that and what not, and you know, I didn't think that much about it. A lot of these think that I'm telling you about, I didn't think about them until I got out of basketball. To be honest, it was I was there. I was committed to play with a team that we weren't that good as That's why I look at a lot of a lot of teams that when they played against the Celtics and they said, how did they win, I said, I think we had.
Rback for that.
Bed Hrback had had a good starting unit, but they had veterans on his bench all the time, and they came to play, you know, and you know, they were they were good. They ran the ball up and down the court, and I think a lot of guys, to be honest, were scared to play against the Celtics because we had some on our team, and I said, what the hell you scared of them for? I said, you know, they've dressed the where you are, said, you know, And when they tossed the ball up, that's when you got to go.
Who were some of your favorite guys in your day to play against? Not necessarily teams, but individual players. Who did you enjoy matching up against.
I enjoyed Will because I knew Will very well. And Wilt was big talker, you know, what he's going to do and whatnot. And but Will was putting on the show for people, you know, and Book caret the NBA for years. And I always said this that the year they went Philadelphia moved out to San Francisco and Syracuse came down to Philly. Well, there was fifty points a game,
and that's people don't say anything about it. And you know, and my good friend Bill Russell won the MVP that year, who played great because they won the championship.
But when you averaged fifty.
Points, yeah, I mean, and I A was a triple bubble, right, you know, so, but I'd still say, well, Carr at the NBA that year, and you know, they don't ever say that much about it.
Is it probably because we didn't get a chance to see it, or people who speak most now didn't get a chance to see it or really appreciate. But how great, How great was he? I mean obviously we see the numbers, but to see and play against it, and like you said, him being able to carry the entire league? How great was he? And could he have played in any error and dominated?
Oh?
I think he could have. What was a great athlete, could run track, high jump, volleyball player, talk playing his stuff all the time. But you know, he got it done on the court. I mean, you know one game they played in, you know, and these guys today talk about how great they are. Sure there's some great basketball players. Guy gets fifty rebounds, Well, I think Russell got forty eight that game. I mean, I mean, can you imagine one man getting fifty rebounds in the basketball game.
It's incredible it is.
And you know, and and the thing to think about it he played every minute.
Yeah, he does what I'm saying. He played in every game.
You see guys today, what is that they try to well, worry about the minutes and load Oh that's that's a load management. I mean, I think if you make it fifty million dollars a year.
There's no load management.
I think sometimes you're to the fans who come to see you play because because well you want to say so or not. The NBA owners and the players are in this thing together, right, they're not ending alone, right, And they said they got to understand that. We understood that with the with the with the players Association when
I was there, we try to convince that. Finally, I think some of the owners who came into the league while I was still there understood that we were not fighting them, were to do something to better basketball right overall?
Good?
Is it true you learn how to shoot by using ten tennis balls and rags wrapped around with rubber bands.
No, I had to fake balls and ten things. And now that that's when. That's when I first started playing. If so young had two older brothers, you know, they wouldn't let me going away with them.
Man. Yeah, what's the age difference between you and your older brother?
He was about five years older. And you know, I don't know if you have any older brothers now, but yeah, they don't want you. I don't want you to go anywhere. Person used to steal from me. My older brother I have an older brother. After forty two years, I just found out I got an older brother. So I was always the oldest brother and so just recently, so start out shooting in the trees and whatnot, and imaginations and whatnot. And like any young kid would say, all the time,
thirty seconds, ten seconds ago, two seconds, you got the ball. Yeah, and you make it every.
Time you play any other sports.
Ran track played baseball. Had a baseball contract with the Cincinnati Rolls. I'm sorry, Cinscinating Reds. What am I saying? But I didn't want to take it because they had they had some great stars and and you know, I hate to say this. You know this comes up. You know, people don't want to hear a lot of this. But they were black, Veda Pinson, Frank Robinson was great man. They didn't they didn't appreciate.
It at all. It's a terrible in baseball.
I want to ask you, what's what's your opinion on athletes and activism. I was thrown in the George for a situation, and yeah, I saw great was able to be a big part of that.
And I'm honored because I think that's the best thing I've done in my.
Life's do something for for for our people. But what's your opinion on athletes and activism and how was it growing up in Indiana dealing with the KKK and all that.
Growing up?
Let's talk about Indiana first. I didn't see any white people at all when I played ball unless I played against him. In Indiana, one white person was Bob Collins, who was a writer who loved our team, and he wrote about it because he's writing about the facts. Other than that poorest could be mother than five, divorced, two older brothers. We had had little little guys on the street. But tell you everything you have to know. I really
appreciate those guys. You know, sometimes they talk about GHET, old kids and whatnot and and all the bad things. These guys were great. They raised you. They tell you what they do about women, drugs and everything else, gaming and everything. So so I'm happy about that.
But it's a.
But you know, it's really interested when when you when you live through a lot of different things, whatnot, uh that you seek change and whatnot.
Uh.
I think players today, with the media and and all, it's the socially outfits. You have to be careful sometimes, but that doesn't mean you you disregard your character and what you want to say about because I think they can be very helpful, helpful. I never forget uh. When the kid uh, I can't think of his name, he stepped still, sit on his knees. They didn't stand from the net anthem. And I won't tell you the coach's
name that you'll figured out this. And this owner was very very upset about them, Jerry Jones, you know what, Bobby, more than anything, the rest of the Black pearers didn't support it.
I couldn't.
I could not understand that they didn't like the national anthem either, right, they should to be honest. I mean, I know the national anthem, but I never heard of the national anthem. When I was playing ball in college, they played well, we always.
In the locker room, never heard it.
The national anthem is great, I mean I learned came to appreciate it, especially when it was in the Olympics. We want to we want to go medal. Then you boy goes up, something goes through you. You know, you think about you think about your life. You know, where are you from and how you got there? You know, and the guys you're with. And that's what you think about those kinds of things.
Also think about the words too, just as fall were still waiting on something.
Well, that's true too.
But what was that experience like, obviously a different time back then, when you're representing a country that didn't necessarily represent or love you at times, what was it like to be able to do that and win at the highest level.
I think this was in nineteen sixty folks, so it goes back a few years. I was fortunate because I met I met Oli there, I met Wilman, Rudolph, Ray Norton, and Thompson was the high jumper jump first guy from the American to jump seven feet. It was. It was great experience for learning things about yourself, about life. I never I never been run that many people like that
in my life. And you go to the Olympic village and you know everyone's there and you just socialize, you meeting people, but not you know, I mean, I knew Wilma read very well, Wilman, Rudolph was a good friend of mine. And then I got to meet Alan because I kept telling me to tell me the greatest man God and tell them tell me, tell me we can whoop anybody. Man that's oh, come on.
I love it. You were co capping with Jerry West. We just lost rest in Peace.
Yeah.
Jerry was a good friend of mine. We met at the trials in Denver. He was kind of quiet at the time, but we got to talk to each other about different things. And and uh, the AU was very strong in those days, and they would always try to get the best team to play against us. You know, something's mighty funny about that. As we won the championship, I was sitting with sitting with pet Knell. Was that coach? He said, Oscar. He said, I got a difficult task tonight.
I said, what is it, coach? He said, they don't want they don't want Weal Bellamy. I said why. He said, you don't know why. If they hadn't taken Ballot me, we have had two black guys on the team. This is a nineteen sixth of some great players planning man myself and Bob Boozer ball Me. We needed him to win the championship in Rome. We couldn't have won without him, couldn't have won it at all.
They didn't want him, They didn't want two blacks.
No here here again.
I mean, and it's it's a I know, these things come up and people don't want to hear these things, but not because I had a great experience at the Olympics. I thought, I think that was that's the greatest sport event in the world for people to get together and and and try to iron out something that differences and whatnot. And when you run for a metal and once you
get a metal, you know, just told total happiness. You know, you congratulate the people that that that's running against you, but they understead you're happy for them as well.
Mental health is such a big thing and discussed today, but that's just recent. They just maybe the last five seven years. Mental health. I mean, with so much racial tension back then, although it was the norm, it had to affect you day to day. How did that make you feel? How were you able to focus on the task in hand? How did you get through all the stuff you you know, had to unfortunately go through.
Well.
I went to the University of Cincinnati. I was the first black to play there, and I didn't realize it because I'd gone to Cincinnati and see Jackie Robinson play a lot, and I saw a lot of African American people sitting in the stands with not I said, man, this is a great town, great city. So anyway, when I go to school there, I didn't see any black people. Man, I mean, I'm going to class at nobody. So one day I told the coach I want to say, I want to have a meeting.
Man.
So I made him eight o'clock in the morning. I said, what's going on? He told me the story is that they just don't like blacks at the school. I said, why don't you tell me this now before I got here? Before I got here, he said, didn't want to do that because he wanted me to come. But anyway, I mean or commitment, and so I was, so I stuck with it. You know, it wasn't always easy, right. I was sitting in my room one night, not that about all the other black guys in the same situation up here.
Nobody cares, but for at least for me, I was a star player of the year that got some tension, you know. But I think about all those other players, you know, I really felt sorry for them.
I think that's why I admire you so much. I mean, you got a lot of guys today with every with all the bonuses and pluses they have. They are not able to go out and not not even average triple double, but play to the level you play, and they're not really dealing with nothing.
You was dealing with people threatening your.
Life, betting your family's life, betting your job threat and you still went out there and played to be the person you are today. I admire that because you know a lot of people that that have everything in the world, they don't have the confidence to stand up for something that that doesn't have nothing, has nothing to do with them.
You did it your whole career.
So I admire that and still be able to be, you know, the person who has a basketball player with all that stuff.
That just says a lot about who you are in life.
You know, when you get older, you're realizing more and more there's so many things that bother you on a daily basis, Difficult things you got to go on, you can't stop. God has has an answer to everybody, and he's still in charge, so you can't worry about things. A lot of times, you know you're unforcunate that things happen in your life that that bother that bother you, really bother you some terrible things sometimes, but you got letter play out, but you got later playoffs just like
and I never forget. There was one guy named Norman Allen who lived on our street, and he said he was talking one day about players being great. He said, remember one thing, when you're on the court, think about think about the game. And I also said, they can't play until they tossed the ball up. So I said, what do you mean by that? He said, always talk about this guy and that guy before the game doesn't
mean anything. He's when they tossed the ball up. That's when you got to go and see whether you can get it done or not. But but uh, but but it just it just bothers me more than anything that you talked earlier about guys and social social activities whatnot. They got to be careful because they're involved with shoot deals, television deals, commercials, whatnot.
I think they can be smart about it.
There's a way to do it.
You don't have to go out and curse somebody out and call them names and what not. But you know, but you can be smart about this, you know, and have statements that that are thoughtful.
You know, conversations, yes, have the conversations.
You know, because hopefully that's what the politicians do. But sometimes they don't. They don't do that. They get into a situation where they start calling each other names, which.
Is not But that's when Matt says all the time. It's ways to disagree, but the respect has to remain the same.
Yes, I agree with you, Yes it does.
Indeed, nineteen fifty nine, the KKK sent you a telegram before a game. Do you remember. Do you remember?
Yes?
I do. We were playing to Plan in Addiction Classics. I knew nothing about the Dixie Classics. So I get a telegram. So if you go out here and play, they're gonna shoot me. So I gave it to the coach. But later on that day I get a knock on the door. Here's a white kid from Alabama, some Obama fraternity. You had to kind of get an autograph for me. What do you think I did? Autographed? For of course,
we always the bigger people. I never forget that as long as I live, I mean, I mean to be honest, to be honest, man.
I was born in Tennessee.
I never really thought that much about the Klan to begin with me because where I lived, we had a lot of relatives. There were Bails, Tiers, and Robertson. So although the whites and blacks were separate, there was no going out hanging somebody and nothing being done about it, right right, So they protected themselves. But I never thought that much about it. Guys that threatened me. I mean, it wasn't the only time I was threatened by the way,
I'm gonna tell you. But it didn't bother me. I mean, I just I didn't think anything about it, about being shot. I just didn't think that they was gonna do it.
He has a movie coming out, a dot comount. He went through the same thing in high school. You want to talk about that, man.
No, just the you know, KKK was a kid was harassing my sister called her a nigger spinning her hair. So she was two years younger than me in high school. So I did what a big brother supposed to do and beat the kid up and went back and tried to tell the school what happened. They didn't believe it, suspended me, and then the KKK tried to come burn down my high school noose with the mannequin and the tree die Nigger niggers everywhere, swastikas Niggers must die like
put a hit out on me. I had to move.
We've seen the screening of the documentary last week, and it's gonna be really good.
A lot of people no, but it's I mean, I'm always really fascinated by it because I mean, obviously you faced all the adversity you faced, and then you know, this is nineteen ninety eight at the time, and it's just like it was still prevalent. And I tell people, I feel like, you know, hate will always be there. Just as love is taught, hate is taught, and unfortunately there's just weird people out here that teach to hate and it's unfortunate. You're right.
Thing that's really so overwhelming to me is that so many of white people who don't care about that, you know, but they don't do anything. You run ouse. These things happened in Indiana, and I think it might have been months. Indiana they hung up black guy who got him out of jail because he said he made some remarks about some white woman walking down the street. It went in jail and hunging, and you wonder that happened today they can't.
It still is well in Lumberton, Texas, they're still hanging people in Mumbaton, Texas.
No. Well, during the during the George Floyd, during the pandemic, member there were people allegedly black people were committing suicide by hanging themselves. But that was excuse my language, that was some bullshit, you know what I mean? That was that was some other things going on, which is which is unfortunate.
Well, I think there needs to be some overall conversation from people, you know, like minded people.
Well, yeah, but actually they don't have to be like minded because like minded people see things the same way. You need to have conversations with people who aren't like minded. I feel like with the same goals. What I'm saying, yeah, peace.
I just feel that other than politicians, people don't want athletes to talk about socialitions.
But they don't.
They don't they don't want teachers to talk about so they don't want black people to talk about social istions whatnot. My person never said it to me about politics. The don't think I followed it. When I became eighteen, he said you gotta get register for the draft. I said, what are you talking about that?
What draft? Not?
The draft? Wanted no one, no one in.
My school, every miss me anything to me about get the draft cards. But I had to go. I wouldn't I wouldn't got it done anyway.
What was that he like though, Just to think that you possibly could be obviously dreams of playing basketball, but possibly having to go to war.
I didn't really think that much about it, okay. I mean, you know, you know, like I said before, you know, when you live in a ghetto, man, you know there's so many things that happened. Hear about so many things and whatnot. Man, you know, it just rolls off.
Your box and you enjoyed the bad time. Times are so hard that you learned how to enjoy everything.
I thought a lot of people lived like that. We didn't know it was struggling then.
I didn't know, you know what I'm saying. We didn't know.
We were just living our life and we've seen how hard.
I mean, I can't talk speak to you, but we've seen how I've seen how my grandmother, my grandfather, my mom has made a life for everybody. So that was everything to me. I didn't know we were struggling. I had everything to in my mind. You know, It's amazing. Grandfather he had a little farm to go down in the summer and two days, two days. He loved it when it raining and Sunday that's when he didn't work. Ever, they worked, you know.
And it's a funny thing that that all the things you go through your life that I've gone through. I had to join the army on television halftime a basketball game against the Boston Celtics. It's just things that go to go through your life and what you have to do sometimes, you know. I mean, I wasn't going to join the army, but I was told if I didn't join they I was going to be drafted. So I joined the reserves.
What year?
I mean, obviously with you being good friends with Ali in the years escaping me, obviously he went through that and and and and and chose, you know, the latter not to do it. But what was that like as him being a friend of yours and it kind of derailing a little bit of his career.
They didn't want Alan into the military. Never even finished high school. You know, I don't know if they give you some tests sometimes you go through. I don't don't. I don't think he can passed it. They wanted Ali because they wanted him to influence other black kids. That's that's why they wanted all in army. They want they want to make him to make sure that all these other black kids that they were going to going to put in the military but didn't do the same thing.
Because you know that that in the summertimes in some parts of the country. I think it was up east where there was a potato harvest. Those kids all got out of school to harvest potatoes. That's why you don't go to school in the summer. Yeah, that's let's start on the on the east and now you know, uh uh. But but but with Ali, now, they didn't really want him in army. He has been a disruption in m
too much. You know, it's just it's pretty It's just he had too many following, you know, you know, and what and what what do we accomplished by that? But they want to take him to court to make an example out of it. I never forget Frank Robinson told me once, when you win, they don't they don't like it.
But when you lose, you they blamed you.
M it's a no win situation.
Well it is so certainly be but but I think, as I said before, that it's the conversation with.
Me, you know, you don't.
You don't hear a lot of black athletes talk about.
Politics, right, they're afraid too, Yeah, they are.
I mean, I mean, I'm not gonna name any names, but some of the years, some of the biggest stars never never mentioned I don't think. I don't think. I don't think they mentioned Obama when he was running.
You know, have you that Reggie get off about them?
When Reggie been holding that in for a long time. At the baseball game, he was that.
I would never wanted to do it, want to do it again. I walked into restaurants and they would point at me and said that you can't eat here. I would go to a hotel and they said I can't stay here. We went to Charlie Finley's country Club for a welcome home dinner and they pointed me out with the N word. He can't come in here. Finley march the whole team out. Finally they let me in there. He said, we're going to go to the diner and
eat Hamburger's or go where we're wanted. Fortunately, I had a manager in Johnny McNamara that if I couldn't eat, if I couldn't thank you, if I couldn't eat in the place nobody would eat, We'd get food to travel. If I couldn't stay in a hotel, They'd drive to the next hotel and find a place where I could stay. Had it not been for Raleigh Fingers, Johnny McNamara, Dave Duncan, if Joe, and Sharon Rudy, I slept on their couch three four nights a week for about a two month
and a half. Finally they were threatened that they would burn our apartment complex down unless I got out. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The year I came here, Bo Connor was the sheriff the year before, and they took based by the League Baseball out of here because in nineteen sixty three the Clan four black girls children in eleven, twelve, fourteen years old at a church here and never got indicted. It was there from the Klan Life magazine did a story on them, like you were
being honored. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. At the same time, had it not been for my white friends, had it not been for a white manager and Rudy Fingers, who Duncan and Lee Myers, I would have never made it I was too physically violent. I was ready to physically fight some I'd have got killed here because I'd have beat someone's ass, and they you just saw me in an oak tree somewhere.
Well, they treated Reggie kind of bad in New York. Yeah, what was the manager's name was drunk. This guy was a drunk man. He shouldn't have been becaugin anybody. Basketball thing Reggie was to minis star young man, helped them win World reasons whatnot. They treated him like nothing. When I was a Cincinnati you know, doing the holidays, you know you're still there the practices, playing games. We had to go up to this restaurant it was, I don't know what kind of wrestlant it was to eat. I
going with one of the guys on the team. And when I went in the door and I guess, hey, what are you doing in here? I said, what do you mean? He said, Uh, he said, I don't want you in my restaurant. I said, I supposed to eating here soon, You're not gonna eat in here. So anyway, I left. I go to a place in the black sector town where they had college green and they used the same difference to get everything out man. Also happened. The coach calls me up, man, what the hell are
you doing? I said, what do you mean? He said, you haven't been you haven't been up to the resturande. I said, coach, what are you talking about?
Man?
I said, Man, don't want me to say any want blacks in this place. Years later this happened. This same guy who ran at the restaurant was dying, want me to come to sing you?
Same guy, same Yeah you went some.
No, I didn't know where he was. I might have gone nowhere.
Yeah yeah, but I mean, I mean, I mean it happened.
Man.
You know it's crazy. So you leave Cincinnati the all time leading score for college basketball until a pistol peek came around.
Plus I everd fifteen rebounds.
Again, about said my career. So where did your all work?
So?
I mean, I want to talk. Actually we'll go there. So your year one thirty points ten and nine, year two thirty to thirty one, twelve and eleven, you're three twenty eight, ten and nine, you're four thirty one, eleven and ten thirty one twelve and nine year five. Normally we used to see kind of one sided. Where did the all around? Game come from and why did you embrace that and do it so well?
Just come from playing ball against guys when I grew up. Not had a coach in high school that said if if you if you're inside, you got to got a center. You got to box them off the board. And we played. We had defensive drills all the time, man, I mean just just constantly running drills and helping out and talking on defense whatnot. And you just learned to play, you know as ah And really though, as it was said earlier on your show, there was no position basketball. He
was a basketball playing basketball. You know, this is why it really. I had a team. I want to tell you the guy's name. We played in China. I tell him, I want you outside. I want you to run the offense. He said, I don't know to run the offense. I said, where are you from, man, He said, I'm from so and so school. I said, you know, I said, this is basketball. I want you outside. I want you to get the ball. This guy, that guy, we're gonna run two. I said, we're gonna have two plays. We're not gonna
have a lot of plays. Simple plays. I want you to do, he said. He couldn't do it crazy. Well, you know, everybody I knew could play outside found the ball. That's how I had to learn moved inside. Like I had a coach at in high school. He said, he wanted me to get the ball to certain guys. You want me to take any bad shots. If you do, you're not gonna play. So I learned well from him.
But we in the era of a lot of players being one or two dimension them like they can't do everything.
Like I think I could say, that's what basketball is. You should be able to do everything.
I wasn't able to do things nowhere closest to you, But I did everything on the court when I played, I rebound, I played defense, I passed, I did it all.
But you mastered it.
And when people ask you, when people ask you like how like you can't teach that, like Russell had Russell just.
Has that motor. Russell Westbrook, you know what I'm saying.
You can't really teach a guy to have that passion and want to do everything on the court.
It has to be in you.
And you know, speaking of Westbrook, I think that it's unfortunate for Westbrook that they're doing some of these things to him. Think, I think the guy is very valuable to any team he's with, But somehow they want to blame somebody, right, you know, I blame him. Man, the guy's affecting for you. I mean he kept the franchise in Oklahoma going for years years.
What do you think when you when you saw him average triple double before the season and and like you said, all the attributes he brings to the team.
Well, I went out to see him and Oklahoma. I was happy for the guys, and man, I said, I want you to tell you this. We were in the room by ourselves talking. I said, I'm happy for you, But man, I said, they're gonna.
Turn on you. You told him that, I said.
I remember seeing him in the locker room when Russell walked in. He was in the locker room waiting on my saying.
That said, they're gonna turn on you because they're gonna expect you to do this every night.
Yeah, and even if.
You do it you don't win, they're gonna blame you. They're gonna blame you, They're gonna blame anybody else. That's a bar right there. They did and they did.
Well, who know better than you?
Right?
Who know better than you.
Who are some of the guys you in today's game or or in the past you enjoy watching.
I like to watch Kerry and Lebron, those guys. I mean, I think that they have some great attributes. Uh uh. They get on Lebron a lot for holding the ball, handling the ball. But he who is gonna though it, Carr is a great shot that, you know what I mean? I mean, who's making shots like that? I think a lot of kids can shoot the ball. I don't know this kid's name from in Indiana. That's a good shooter to go to Aliburton. No, no, not the other kid.
Healed one kids shooting them about fifty percent from the floor.
He led the leg.
But but you know, get him to shoot more more, you know. But it's just a matter I think. I think guys in the game today come from this AAU basketball where Rob said, if you don't score, you know you're not helping our.
Team, right right, So.
Therefore the first thing you want to do is man, they want to shoot a three point shot. Man finally shot a three point shot in high school. I never would have played.
Well.
A lot of teams going after guys that's affecting game more than having skills. Because I've been talking to some coaches like I talked to Mike Brown too, and a lot of scouts are looking for guys that are going out there in some leagues that's affecting the game.
We ain't worried about your one on one.
If you're going out there getting that extra possession, getting that extra rebound, that's the guys they're looking for these days.
Well, hopefully they get a team. But this is the difficulty in basketball today is that it's hard to find guys who going to play together. Sometimes you do and then like a Milwaukee I hate to bring this up, but we win the championship. Do you know to make sure they traded six of the guys.
Yes, yes, it makes no sense the key guys to key guys. I went to the went to the bucks. I said, who did this?
He said, what do you means?
Well?
We had makeing said, man, you're killing us. You run as we win a championship, let's go with the same guys running. We got to the finals and got beat by Boston in my fourth year. But you know, guys got hurt. Lucia's got hurt that they killed us Lucia's.
Allen as we're coming to the end of a run for three particular great players, Lebron, Steph and Katie. There's no telling how long they're playing, but it's not going to be too much longer. What do you think about those three and what they've been able to bring to the game.
I think they've been sensational myself because they position themselves where they really helped enable the leg to go forward to get these huge contracts from those people. When they step on the floor, it's exciting.
Uh.
They generate a lot of talk with the new news people and whatnot. But still, you know, you watch them, watch I'll say this, I'll say it again. When when uh? When when? Sometimes when the blind when the Lakers don't win, they said, oh, Lebron turned the ball over, he did, he did that, But what about the other guys on the team?
Don't are they getting paid?
What about the other guys? You know he's the main lebronter over here, but also loves him.
Well, well that's that's right. But you know, even Kerry, you know that you're talking about Kerry.
Now, you know that he's always getting old, you know, you know he's not gonna be able to do that forever. And then what happens then and Kevin Durant. You know, I just I think it's a tremendous shooter, you know, I mean, I mean seeing a guy that big shoot the ball, I can't unbelievable. Know what I was talking earlier about the Olympics. France did. But the only way, the only way the USA was going to beat France with France had to go on the zone.
That made.
Curry, KD and Booker great. Those guys. They couldn't beat those three guys with a zone, and that's what they went into the zone, and Curry started knocking them down. Man, because up to that point where he was playing man the man, he wasn't that effective.
In your opinion, what was the best part of your game and where where? What area did you feel you needed to continue to work while you were playing.
I think the best part of my game was understand the offense and then how they get guys in the game. Uh uh, you know, you know when I played, you know, used to have two big plays and you know, and and and to run these plays you got something happened to happen.
Uh.
I looked back on my career.
Now, you know, I think I should have shot a lot more. Well. The reason I said that, you know, is that is that the guys I played played with were not as good.
A shooter as I was.
I could get the shot anytime I wanted it, but I was such a such an unselfish player. I wanted to get other guys in the game, and I was told to do this. And even Cincinnati we had we didn't have a great team, but they wanted me to get these other guys, get the other game that get this guy in and get this kind of game. But they didn't say anything about me. I'm not saying this because because I'm here with you guys, but I just think if we could have been more successful if I shot more.
Well, just think if you if you were a shot more and you already average thirty.
That's but I think in those days it was very difficult for for a player to play and not get a shot.
Uh.
We had a player named Curtis Perry played in Milwaukee, and we had plays and I never forget once we were in the locker room where that guys also mans getting any shots. Hell man, they all going to Kareem, I said, I said. But when Curtis Burry came to me one day, said, man, I'm not getting the ball. So I told asked the coach, Larry Costello, I said, what can we do? He's got a rebound more, I said, Curtis, don't, I'll take care of you. So I started taking the
ball to him a lot, you know. But but there are a lot of players and like that, like Curtis Perry, you know, guys like that. You know that no one cares about him, you know. And then forget there was there was a yeah in New York I want to take he was playing. He never never took any shots, and they had all these guys was taking all the shots going what not. So they got into this real tough basketball game and they weren't doing so well. They started throwing the ball. So he called time out. What
the hell you throwing me the ball now? He said, yeah, throw me the ball.
Yeah.
And now all of a sudden, you can't get your shot, you're gonna throw me the ball. That's that's what happens a lot, you know. But it's really difficult today in this game of basketball. You know, where I think the fans anticipate certain guys doing things. Uh, I mean what bothers me more than anything. I can't guy just come up to you, this drive around you so us? Yeah, no, I mean you don't.
They don't slide, that's not does not even care.
K has made the food out of USA all because that guard didn't fight through to get to his man. I would never have Koreean switch on my man too much. Why am I gonna go inside and play as the seven foot four guys? And then the US said kept doing that and going last day? What was the coach doing, carr you? I mean you know you can't say you know, you can't say you want you want to Steph Curry to switch off on side. But Korean won't switch anyway, So it didn't know now, but I'd fight through.
It was different, I mean it changed. Probably was the end. I came in in O two and left in seventeen where when you first he was through the post and we didn't switch on screens. You fought over under or throw the screen. You have to do that, yeah, because it wouldn't work other way. Yeah. Now it's everybody's switchabulls.
And they used to tell you get a big man the bomb. He ain't gonna set the screen. You already know you was in the league. They said, if the big man run up and down, make sure you can let him touch the ball, because he the one set in the screens. He rebound, he's doing all the dirty work if you don't throw them the ball. Watch how your screens beat? Watch how you.
Yeah, that's resorted to that because you see a lot a lot of a lot of teams they would always set the big guy out beyond the file line. And then and the rules are you have to go out to the file line at least to the fire line. You can still neat the basket. That has made a lot of guys great it. Maybe you go to the basket and dunk the ball and do that. But I'll tell you this, when Wilton and Russell plays, you didn't do that, Nate Thurman, you didn't get no duncks like that.
I mean it, But it it's a game has really changed. But I think it's a good game. But but this is the way he's going to be from here for forever, and I think they ought to cancel the All Star Game.
Joe One Question. One Quick Question author you ever gotten to fight in the game, not a total fight, Yeah, because we had Wayne Embry. Wayne was he was laying people out.
Huh.
He was about six satan seventy five, you know big, you know. I mean, I mean because when you play against will see Bill couldn't push him underneath the back. And I guess guys realize that, man and so. But there are a lot of knockout guys on these teams. I must tell you. Once you went through them, you know you understood what they were trying to do. Yeah, so so you watch yourself, you know. I mean, I mean, this is what I understand today. You know, I saw that.
You know, I really don't think he was trying to hit Rudy. But when you're in a fight adds up. You don't run up behind a guy that's just that's getting hitting and punching at some of else. You don't you go around so he can see you. That was the biggest dude on the court. He ran too too. Well. It was unfortunate. It was unfortunate. But I've been in in situations where guys getting punched. I mean, you know,
but you know it was like it was just punches. Yeah, you know guys would go, that'll be it man.
Yeah, no suspension, know nothing. Fifty dollars now, yeah, I got thirty three million for one punch. It wasn't a player. Yeah, it wasn't a regular.
It wasn't a player, but it wasn't record punch. I'm with you, So here we go. We got the home stretch. We obviously appreciate your time. Thank you for sharing with us for eighty five. You're looking great. What are you doing to stay in shape these days? You golf, exercise or eat good? What do you do?
I'm not doing as much.
That's the secret.
My daughter's keep telling me. I don't.
I don't walk enough. You don't want walking up? He looks. I want to look like that. At eighty five, he got your dog.
I got five good because because they say, because they say, when you have daughters, that's gonna be the ones to take care of you when you get older.
I got yeah, glad, I got five. I got six acts.
No sugar, no salt, drinks, none of those things. Just health. Health is important. One thing you wish you were better at.
I wish had had been better at communicating about about the association's direction. What we were trying to do because I don't. I don't think a lot of a lot of guys understood it. Even today. I don't think they understood how they are, how they got where they are today. And I just think although although we won in court with the Oscar option rule, I still don't think. I think a lot of them just realized. I think that
they this year because they're great players. So many people paved the way, so many Yeah, but you know, I mean, see a guy makes sixty million. I mean, do you really think he think he's worth sixty million dollars play basketball?
I don't think.
Well, you know, Lebron is somebody who's no doesn't matter. But if you get it, take it man.
Yeah, you know, I mean you negotiate.
That's a lot of money to pay anyone to do something that that you that you really love.
To do, and we used to do for free, but but now you ain't gotta love it and you're getting that money.
I guess they don't have them, don't even love and they get paid. What advice should you give current players?
Invest your money wisely, invest your money wise? You want to speak little Chinese if you can, because you know, because you know because the world, the world doesn't doesn't in with the US A right, or the NBA or the n b A right, guys are making means a dollar, arn't. There's some wealthy people in this country, man. I'm talking about bigger, bigger theres, bigger and bigger theres. And you know how they make their money. Find out how they make their money, what they what they're doing. I mean,
but but it's gonna go on. I mean, I don't. I don't think it's gonna get any worse. I think the basketball players right now are gonna lead these other other baseball and football into the direction of getting more and more money for the players.
Right, guaranteed money too, even with the.
Scarf, the rule the owners. What what do you think the owners getting out of it?
If they're paying the players, that's crazy money.
Favorite musical group Temptations.
Temptations, that's you listen to right now, Like, oh yeah, this is quite a bit.
You know, there's a lot of a lot of music, Fast Domino, Yeah, Classics, Jackie Wilson.
Anything new.
You know, you know you didn't play something.
He told you to turn it off on.
Myself.
So you hear music today. First of all they got the sound and music up so bad. I don't even know, can't say the words. They don't care about the words, no more. And one thing I think more than anything, they wanted they wanted to come out and short pants and whatnot. You know, you know, I think people see that they say, oh man, you know what, what a great song?
Well what the hell did they say?
Say?
You know, I just whipping the air work cloud neck fatter these guys man, you understand, and and the Temptations and the and the fourth Tops.
Man, it was a class. It was all class back there. It was superclass, I mean, and they could sing in different type songs you know, fast, slow, and everybody was dressed like everybody had on gowns and tuxedos. It wasn't no half naked what none of that, but they had.
It was it was calmed out though they wouldn't let they have.
Chemical yeah, but all kind of they have like that.
The it was it was a great era, to be honest, what not. You know as a matter of fact that if you look a look at music, but not they went they went from rock and roll then, yes, what what did they go after? What did you do after that?
After rock and roll with the soul soul so.
Who was winning all the awards from locking roll to the Little Richard got the Beatles started. People don't know that Little Richard was a tremendous star, super talent for a long time in the rock and roll. He was going to the black stars. All of a sudden, you know, so so so then what happened. They came up They said, oh, we can't have this. They started making soul music. Yeah, you know, we have the most copied race in the world. So I get it.
I get it. I wish we had more time just to sit and pick you all day, man, but we we really appreciate your time. Thank you for spending a little bit with us. We're looking forward to seeing you the rest of the weekend man, and and just thank you for everything you did, not only for us before the game and and for the culture. Really appreciate.
I think it was something that was a good ride. I'm glad I did it. You know, it wasn't always easy. But as I said before you, I'm glad for the players, man, I'm glad that making them money living in the mansions and fifty million dollar houses whatnot. And it means a lot to me because you know, these guys will never had to have their families to worry about anything.
Right.
That means a lot, you know, means a whole lot.
And it started with and.
We're saying all that it takes no energy to say thank you, No, it does not.
Well, you know, I've always said this also. Then then my daughter, she said, I she cut it off with this.
She gave you the sign.
I think everyone that plays basketball or goes into a corporation should know the history of that, the corporation of the game of basketball or baseball or football, whatever whatever. They should have to read about it and find out what it's all about. But these guys aren't going to do that.
We talked about that before you came in, understanding who came before and who paved the way. So we understand, and we definitely appreciate everything you did to the game and again did for the culture. So thank you for your time to that.
Man. Appreciate that, Appreciate being with you.
Yeah, I ma a pure Larry.
John said, let's go ask where we should go, and y'all flooded it. Man, So we appreciate the love.
Fack that y'all coming out and showing us love. We appreciate y'all. Mm hmmm
Mm hmmm