Welcome back to another episode of Unplugged, brought to you by DraftKings Man. I love basketball right now. I mean men's game is going crazy obviously with the playoffs, got a chance to catch a court side, sparse game this weekend. But joining us is none other than one of my best friends, Rachel Nichols.
Welcome back, mister, mister Matt Barnes.
How are you?
How much fun is it watching Kelsey Plumb?
Kelsey's the shit, right. I remember how dope she was in college, but obviously she fell into her role. But we'll obviously get to that a little bit later. But yeah, as a spark, just.
You said you went to the game. I didn't realize that. Like, plus she talks her shit.
Oh yeah, absolutely, I love it. I just I'm gonna break her down later because this is the first time I got to see her play in person in a while for the Sparks, and it's just a different But yeah, we'll get to that. But anyway, let's get to UH Eastern Finals. You were in the building, ye baby, game one Madison Square Garden. I said, I didn't even care if I went to the game. I just want to feel the energy in New York right now, because I know it's insane, but you witnessed a choke.
First of all, going into that series, going into the Eastern Conference Finals first time twenty five years against the Pacers. Every old Nick is in the building, every pace you know, Reggie, Reggie's there. All the shit you walk around New York that day, right, The Knicks were not only going to win that series in four, they were going to sweep in four. They were after beating the Celtics, they were going to sweep the finals in four, and they were somehow going to win two titles.
By some they're gonna win next year, next year's title.
That's what you couldnot tell Knicks fans nothing.
And by the way, I think you still couldn't. Maybe even after Game three, they're like, we're.
Bad, baby, It's all happening Nicks and Sick, right, they're wild. I saw. I just love the ambiance again, every single former Nick players courtse I think that shit is dope. And there's a mob, Dylan, what's that ship called? The mob of just the crazy fans that talk shit to everyone? Is there like a New Yorkers Yeah, mayn right. They are nuts with no filter, Like I just love. I said early on, I just think it would be great for just the ecosystem, would be the NBA if the Knicks
were able to win. But let's get down to why I don't think they they're going. I just I love what they're doing. I have the team run a ton of numbers, say, because I just kind of want to figure out like what things look like and what the vibe is. But let's talk Game three. TIBs Surprise, Surprise, dipped into the bench a little bit shamming and and
Wright got a little bit of time. There's been a switch with Josh Hart going to the bench and Mitchell Robinson's starting now talk to us a little bit about kind of the shake up and TIBs at this point. And I was saying before we started, like I'm looking at the guy's minutes now and all the guys are in like low thirty, So it means he's dipping into the bench. But the bench hasn't really got no burn all year, So how are they supposed to on the
Eastern Conference final stage perform? But go ahead, what are your thoughts with kind of a little bit of shake up in him using a little bit more.
Depth, I think it was Kenny Smith, righty read the line so far as the series where he's like, TIBs won't even use nine guys baseball game?
What was he shows us tonight?
Right?
That was kind of insane. Whether you play guys a lot, whether you don't. I mean, it really depends on the day.
People go back and forth, right because when the Knicks, you know, when we saw Cleveland, for example, right fall apart against the Pacers, people were like, oh see the Pacers have played their guys. They're used to running up and now they're used to heavy minutes in Cleveland. That made this huge show all year of like we're not.
Going to wear guys out rolling a player starter a certain amount of time.
The criticism was they weren't ready when it was time to go. The TIBs criticism we always know is he plays guys into the ground, and yet if you look at some of the numbers, it doesn't always back that up. Look, I asked you before we started if you had played for Carlisle or TIBs before, which I can't kind of believe you haven't, considering how many teams they've both been in and you've been at. But it's interesting to me that Rick Carlisle has largely out coached Tom Thibodeaux in
this series. And then I think what you saw on what you're asking about is tips sort of feeling around for what else might work. And when we saw Brunson on the bench, I am in no way one of these people who was like.
Oh my god, June Brunson, they're better without him. I mean, that's just insanity.
However, the fact that Brunson and Kat weren't playing together and the defensive weakness, yes, when they're both on the floor, that that creates wasn't there. That's what I thought was most interesting.
About all those Yeah, there's numbers obviously, and analytics, you guys can get that somewhere else, But when they're able to stagger their minutes, and let's be real, I mean, Mikal Bridges hasn't necessarily been the lockdown guy he's been known to be og has kind of been inconsistent when it comes to defense. You know, Kat with his size twenties, he's not really moving them puppies as as they would say. And then Brunson is doing so much heavy lifting on
the offensive. Man, it's just like, how much do you expect from him, So you know, I wanted to just My whole thing is obviously being a former player like you had, you can't, first of all, simulate game reps, especially at this point with all the adrenaline, Like you can't just all of a sudden get in shape, you know what I mean. And that's why I always tip guys that with you know, we look at Indiana and we look at Okay. See their guys have got a
taste of this shit the whole season. So now when it's here, whether it's a little bit longer than normal sport or a quick spurt, they're ready and they're here. You give guys opportunities that hasn't necessarily played. And I'm not sure what you're expecting because I'm always thinking Rachel on the playoffs. Every you know, a couple of games are serious, someone from the bench is going to go off and really help you get through this. But it's
almost like the Knicks don't even have that opportunity. I mean, we said early sham at some guy that can get four to three's. You know, Delawn Wright is great at getting downhill and drawing fouls, and he does some stuff on the defensive end. But it's just like these guys haven't really got an opportunity the whole time, so and.
The pressure is then on more too.
Right, Yeah, if you know this is your only shot, I don't care how highly conditioned, highly trained, mentally tough for pro athlete you are.
It's tough.
It's tough.
People have no idea how especially with the lights being so bright. This is the Easterns, not the first round. Like this is the Eastern Everyone's expecting to win two.
Championships in the one today exactly.
It's crazy. But you know, Kat showed up game two, excuse me, game three with twenty points. He had just as many as the Pacers had in the fourth quarter, played really well, carried him Brunson, I want to say, what six for eighteen from the field. Scored well, but not a typical game for these playoffs. What what is Cat at twenty one and eleven and bruns is at what thirty four and thirty four at six? Shoot only thirty percent from the three point line? I was My
argument earlier was that Cat's numbers are very solid. Brunson's numbers are above average. Cat's numbers actually above average in this series you look at Og, you look at You, look at Heart, and you look at Bridges. All their numbers are solid and where they're at. But that's it. You know now that Mitchell Robinson is getting a chance to play, I don't. I don't really know TIV, but it's just like when he's with you, he's with you,
and I think as a player, you love that. But like you now he's in serty metro Robinson, but he'll play him the entire first quarter and then his numbers drastically drop the rest of the game. I love him as an energy spark, someone who can change the momentum. Someone get you three offensive rebounds and a kickout for it through like that kind of shit. But then he's playing these consistent whole entire quarters and then his numbers are,
you know, very average the rest of the game. So I mean, going into tonight's game, what do you feel like is the knixt game plan trying to go here and even up the series on Indiana's court.
I think they kind of have to, right, no question.
You go down three to one. They've shown what they can do at home. They're nasty at home. It's crazy. The greatest environment.
That's been well, First of all, I don't know if I'm quarter vantage even matter to any of these playoffs anymore.
At this point, we've seen so many crazy things.
Everyone keeps saying, oh, you get them to the garden in the game seven.
These pacers don't care.
By the way, Tyres Albert is just as happy to score his game winning.
Shots more in the garden. It's more legendary. Great exactly, So, Rachel, you were in New York on behalf of Draft Kings and you've got a chance to win this in amaze seen Game one Tyrese Halibert and the hero or one of the heroes. Let's take a look at what he had to say.
The ball goes up? How long did it take for that ball to go down?
Man? Felt like forever hoping it was a three. You know obviously it wasn't. But proud of our groups. You know, fight, resilience, and you know it's winning overtimes a big deal. So just really proud of the group.
What was it when you were a kid?
What did you count down in your head that you're so good at these last second shots?
Was a Game seven of the NBA Finals? Like, what was it in your.
Driveway High School state championship. I want to go to the NBA, but more than anything, I want to win, to stay champions in high school. So that's more more I would think of, have.
You used the Reggie Miller thing?
You can't use it again, you feel or you feel like you might bring it out again.
It's all spur of the moment. It was spur of the move. I wasn't plottin on that.
It just happened.
So I don't think you'll see it again. I don't think you'll see that. Yeah, we see. We haven't been on since that. But I mean, how fucking he big? Toady? Kdat it he big? But Rachel, can you imagine if that was the game winner?
Can you imagine if they didn't win the overtime?
Afterward?
We think about the swaggy pe meme right where they'll like.
Throw it turn around, and that is like, that is literally the symbol in the NBA.
How long has that been? Has that been ten years? It feels like a fucking decade.
And that is still the symbol of all the ship that is the symbol of right.
And yet if ty had choked, had done the.
Choke sign and then quote choked the game away or whatever it was. That image of him with the word choker underneath would have lived for And that is why give him a lot of credit, by the way, for doing all the shit that he does, because he puts it up. That's all we want, right, put yourself out there.
Yes, and he is doing that, and he does it.
So anyway, he's happy to win a game seven on the road if it comes to that. But I don't know if it's going to come to that. I feel like with the Knicks Pacers series, it's pretty evenly matched. I feel like anyone could Neither one of these are perfect teams, right, Either one could come out with the big night. The problem is the Knicks are in too much of a hole now, yes, right, because the Knicks
have to win four out of five games. After you lose the first two, you've got to win four out of five.
By the way we've seen it.
We've seen an NBA Finals not that long ago, right, So it's not like it can't happen.
It is hard.
You have to be the better team, and I'm not sure the Knicks are that much of the better team that, even though they got one, I don't know if in total they can win four out of five, and whether they win tonight or not, I'm not sure it matters so much in the long term of whether they're gonna win the series and they gonna make it fun. I have a question for you about Jaylen Brunson being your best player.
Though you're talking about one, A, Y, one B, all the stuff.
Well, my question to you, having played, because you played such you were such a two way player, which is.
A hysterical term to me, by the way basketball, because we are everyone's supposed to be a two way player.
But anyway, to have a guy who just not because of his heart, not because he doesn't try, but because of the size he is, who can never be anything but average defensively and often something of a liability.
Can you have that be your best player?
That was my thing. I can he'd be your best player and win a title. I think he's shown at times he's been the most unguardable guy in the playoffs. He's been incredible. They can throw different defenses at him, He's still doing what he does, but with that load.
And then you look at everything that makes him great offensively, his pace, playing off two feet, his IQ, all that he doesn't have any of those natural attributes as like the normal superstars we think that are carrying teams that can go ahead and flip around and lock in on the other side. So when you look at him on defense, you look at kat on defense, someone who else scores
the ball really well, but doesn't necessarily play defense. As I said earlier, Bridges hasn't necessarily locked down as we're accustomed to. Maybe he's a little tired.
Only one guy, right, you kind of would need a team of Bridges, mean.
Yeah, you need at least two guys and maybe one guy off the bench, and then a team that plays team defense. We're gonna get to Okac. Yeah, I'm so in love with the way they're just on a string. Can Brunson be that guy? And I mean we're seeing it right now, right, like Jokic said, like last series, if we could have won, if we could, if we could have won, we would have won, you know what I mean. So I'm still interested in and I don't want this to be a knock on because I think
he's been absolutely incredible in these playoffs. But that was my question a while ago. Can he be the guy to on your team and help and you guys win a championship with that. So we're gonna have to see and.
Always it's hard to because the guy implies that like he's not tough enough, he's not good enough, he doesn't have enough swag, like he's got all of that.
He can be the guy in that way.
Yes, but he's only as tall as he is as tall and so either you need to have such defensive stalwart presence around him, yes, And I don't know if the Knicks have that. I don't know if it's possible to build a team like that in this era. Yeah right, where if that is your best player and he's worthy in every other sense that he's just not four four inches taller.
Yeah, Like, I just don't know.
I think like if for just hypothetis real, coud you throw him on the Oklahoma City raw Sure, with the depth of defense they have and you can hide him, But then is he from that stamp? I mean, it's a whole nother conversation. I still think there's nothing you can.
Do if you him on ok Yeah, are you putting him instead of Shae?
Yeah?
Yeah, yeah, You're going to excuse me if I was removing Shaye and putting him in there in summer you can hide because there's so much, great, much talent on that team. But I mean, I guess it's you know, this is something we're going to have to see. To your point, even if they get tonight, do we see them still getting another two out of three? And I just don't. But one thing is is going to be a big hit for Indiana if it happens tonight. His
Nie Smith is questionable. This guy is nearly at seventeen points a game, fifty from the field and seventy three percent from the three point line. He was single handedly went nuts game one. At the end of Game one. He's been the primary defender on Brunton although Brunts in that thirty four game, nothing has been easy, absolutely nothing, but he makes him work for everything. In good offense is always a great offense is always going to beat good defense, you know what I mean. I ran into
that in my like, I just made them work. But they still got numbers. So he's definitely making him do his things. So if they lost him, that could be big depending on how long. But again they do have that's the one thing you keep And I had to say this is all due respect, Like they're bringing guys off the bench that I haven't heard of, but they're out there doing the thing, like they're out there playing well.
Carlile has those guys ready. One thing I'm happy about is big John, how long you got ran stated before I did. Congratulations man. He gets to be in the building tonight game four, and I really want to sit and talk to him because I've talked to people around him and it's he's just so proud to be a fucking dad and a black dad with all the narratives and stigmas that have been in the past, but he's just happy to be out there. They showed edit to him at a bar still tripping when he couldn't go
to the game and he was doing his day. So I absolutely again as a passionate dad, John, I fuck, we need to have a beer together. But happy he he'll be back in the building. He missed eight games. It's crazy we're even talking about it, like as a player. He missed eight gays because of the Yana shit back on April twenty ninth. But he will be back in the building. We saw our boy stat at game go ahead.
Well, I just say one more thing about that.
Yeah, go ahead, Like I'm thrilled, I've been saying for the last week or two, like, Okay, we have gotten to the point where the punishment has outweighed the crime. Right, your son is doing things that, literally, by the way, no human has ever done in the game of basketball, and certainly Tyreese has never done. And it's not an insult to say he might not ever do it again. There's a lot of time and place, and I mean
it's literally never happened before. So the idea that he'd have to miss all of that again punishment outweighed the crime. To me, that we need to be creative about thinking about how we make.
These decisions for people.
Yes, because the argument that I've gotten thrown back to me over this last week, that I've said, you know, come on, let him back in the building is okay, but what he did was so out of pocket. And the answer is yes, But there are other ways to say you can't do this. And I believe they're going to have him in a swing for the next rest of the way keep and that is the way.
To say you can't do this.
It's kind of like, you know, to the player participation issue to tie it into the awards Vuning.
That's bullshit to me.
Yes, there's other ways you can say you can't do this. That doesn't have to be the way. Keeping John out of the building does not have to be the way you said you.
Can't do that.
Son uncharted territories with the ship John did on the court. But again, I'm glad he's.
Well, he's lucky he rolled up on honest.
Man, That's what I said. We were having a conversation. You would pop that shit in front of someone else, you might have got smacked. But I'm glad it might have go there. It didn't have to go there. The guys in the league, yeah, it didn't have to go there. But he's back tonight, so I know Tyresee and the rest of the Indiana Yeah, I can appreciate that. Moving out West. I haven't been excited about the way a team plays defense in a long time because it's not
something that's necessarily focused on. But I remember one to particular, the player where Edwards ran down through the middle. He had dort Island on him, and then he got screened and he was switched to Jay's Jalen Williams, which is so he had a first team All defender on him, he got he ran off a screen, a second team All defender went on him, and he went off another screen, and someone who should be on the All Defensive Team,
Caruso gar like, switched out and denied him. I'm like, there's no other team out there that can do it. Not only do they have individual lockdown defenders, but they're a great defensive team. Like for all the young people out there, college kids, even NBA guys, just watch how they are on a string and they're moving and they're making that second and third effort on top of the way Shay scoring the ball, on top of the way,
Jalen Williams is scoring the ball. I think Jalen Williams after a tough second round series, he's kind of flourishing. And we know stars are born in the playoffs. What are your thoughts. We haven't even touched on Ants not playing well and Randall disappearing, but what are your thoughts in this series? As Minnesota Trail's.
Three one, I've been talking about Game four and this speaks to how, first of all, the playoffs are good. Man.
When you sat down and you were like, oh, I like basketball out right now.
It's so fun. There's a couple of clunker games that we've.
Seen over the past few weeks. But when games like the last.
Couple that we see, as we say here today, where it's just shot making after shot making as opposed to sucking after sucking.
Yeah, it's just to see the elite level right now. And this is what I'm talking about.
Hold your point one second and what I want to say with that, because I think, Rachel, we've seen a passing of the guards in these particular playoffs. Again, smaller markets, none of our traditional old stars that are unfortunately on their way out. It's new stars, small markets and just again shot making. There's been some blowouts, but guys are
playing at a high level. This is I mean, I don't know what the TV numbers are, and obviously when Lebron's not in and all that, I just know there's been some really good basketball and it's all new young players and stars doing it.
It's fun.
Man, Go ahead, well no, but to your point, right, So this is what Minnesota Timberwolves did, right And I'm reading from John Krasinski is a great beat writer from the Athletic who was covered the team for a long time. They shot it better from the field fifty one percent. They shot it better from three point range than Thunder forty four percent.
They out rebounded Oka.
See.
They scored more points in the paint. They scored more points in transition, more points than Okaysey off second chances, had eight more assists, three more points off turnovers. They made six more three throws, and Minnesota's bench outscored the Thunders bench. And by the way, the Thunders bench is Sam Good. Minnesota's bench outscored the Thunders sixty four to twenty seven. The guess who won the game? And not
even like by a little bit. It didn't feel I know it got close at the end, but didn't feel to you. Yeah, the older brother the kind of like just holding it up a little in front of them.
But I think the two things you mentioned is their stars didn't play well. I think you know you look at Devincenzo seven for eleven from the field, five for eight, twenty one points. I love Alexander Walker's cousin.
Did you know that their cousins, because they haven't mentioned it at.
All, because I talked about it. I think because this he's finally on a big enough stage, he's showing his shit.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
But he goes for twenty three five for right from the end, plays tough defense, you know. McDaniels goes for twenty two, Gobert nearly a double double, thirteen to nine. But then you look at sh our Aunt five for thirteen six points or sixteen points, one for seven form the three, and then Randall, who's been incredible during these playoffs, but he's been kind of bottled up against this team
twenty eight minutes, one for seven, five points. Yeah, so you can't your two best players can't have those kind of night, especially on the same night in the Western Finals.
I agree, And you can't win when that's the case.
But you were playing against a defense that is designed to get this incredible And so when people are like, oh, aunt Ann had a bad night, and then Aunt comes out and said I wouldn't say I was struggling, and that got a lot of attention.
I think he's right.
Look, the defense is designed to suffocate him and take the ball out of his hands, and is he making good decisions or not? And he was generally making good decisions. He's still twenty three years old. Yes, right, but this is the Western Conference playoffs. I just think we are such a like either your gold or your trash society now that we forget in our breakdowns in some of these games, like oh man, he didn't show up, he
was trash. Julius Randall, I thought he was good again, and now like, oh look, he's shown his true colors. Guess what they're playing against a historically good defense, and this is what happens. And he has played really well up until now in these playoffs, and he is having some not great games against one of the best defenses to do it.
And this is what happens when you have this level of might versus might.
This is like evengel Civil Warship, Right, You've got like this team of people and this team with people. Not everyone's gonna win all the time. So I think that's what we're seeing a little bit is okay, see is that good? You sit here and you say they've got this defense like it's seven on five out there half the time.
It's what it feels like.
The one thing I would say, and obviously you're right, but still stars have to play better. The one thing I'll say about Anthon, I just don't like he hasn't taken enough shots for me. Five for thirteen again, and I think this is the second time he's taking thirteen shots. I'm from an era of gunners with Kobe, you know what I mean. So, but that's what at this point, I feel like, like, if we're going to go down, it's going to go down because he went three for twenty.
But then are we all going to sit here and be like I.
Would rather, but I would rather rather he's that good? Yeah right, I would rather have no question, but I would rather Aunt has to be in the eighteen to twenty three attempts a game for this team to have any and I don't think they have a chance. And I say that with all due respect. I think they've done very well. But I think, okay, see with the way their defensive playing and then the way Shay is still scoring, whether he's baiting fowls or not, he's getting
those buckets. And then again Jalen Williams, for Shay to be able to go sit on the bench and him to carry the team offensively, that was that very impressive. Interest. Rachel, Well, you know what's weird to me is like they have two guys that can really go out and get it, but they also have a really good ball movement. It's nuts, you know. I mean there's times obviously where Shay will do with things and then last night when Jalen was
doing this thing. But on top of the guys that are really two guys going to get it, the ball still moves around.
They do need Jaalen Williams to play the way he played. Oh, he was incredible and that is not a gimme.
And we will still see, by the way, and whether it's Western Conference finals, whether it's in the finals, if they make it, we will see a couple of bad games from him and people will be like, see that when I'm a second star, they can't do it. He's not there yet, but he's showing enough that he could be that.
I'm interested absolutely, First time All Stars, second Team All Defense, and again for him to carry the offensive load. As you know, the way he did was was really impressive and only had four points going into the second quarter, only took two shots in the first half of the game, thirteen for the game, sixteen points, six rebounds, excuse me, six assists, four rebounds. What do you need to see this?
Game for them, which is going to be tomorrow night for them to have a chance to try to get one more maybe.
Look, I mean it'd be very hard, first of all, to walk into that environment in Oklahoma City.
You know what it's like, nasty, crazy.
Wow.
If y'all out there have not seen the video of them coming back to the airport at three am, crazy, it was crazy, and this is something they do in Oklahoma City.
But I love that, right.
I mean, they sit and wait for those guys after road trips, especially during the playoffs. It was a madhouse at like three point thirty in the morning in Oklahoma, which was just so much fun.
To see anything else to do.
I love it, right, It's going to be a crazy environment. I think that's going to be hard for them. Look, Anthony Edwards is a couple of years behind Shay, right, both in terms of years in the league, age, all of that stuff.
He will get there.
Yes, we all know it, we all see it. Dylan and I had this conversation going into this series. Dylan, you were saying, I think Ant's ready, He's ready to be the face of the league.
He's star, And that's true.
He's ready to do a lot of the star things, but you still have to go on the basketball court first and foremost, but also learn right just we are so in a culture. The commercials are the best.
In the in the NBA.
Right, So I think he's got the best commercials in the NBA, and he's got the best star power. He gives it, the best press conference, he's he's great on the court, walks down the street in LA after fucking de throning, right, King Slayer, Right, He's he's sitting there calling the Gobert Dragon and calling himself the King Slayer
and got the whole nine. But he's still twenty three years old, and he is going to get better enough in the next two years that he would walk into a situation like he is about to walk into an Okac and tear the house down. I just don't know if he's there yet.
He's not. And I think it's it's just mentality too. I don't even think it's skill set. I think it's the mentality to say, fuck everything else, if we're going to sink, we're going to sink on my back. I think that's what kind of talent he has.
That's what kind of talent he needs to learn how to do it, and by against again a historically good defense.
But I mean, if we look at it, what has he done. He's got his team to the Western Finals the last two years, like no one thought he was going to make it this year.
And by the way, yeah again.
The King Slayer. He's he beat all the legends, all the legends of my time that are you know, on the back side of their career. So again, I think you made a great point. It's all or nothing with sports media now and fan bases that don't know shit. Our peanut gallery downstairs crazy as hell, Like it's just all or nothing. You cannot falter period, you know what I mean. But again, if you're a real head of the game, you know his trajectory is where it needs
to be. Perk said something about he needs to be a family man. I didn't read the whole thing, But Park, you're tripping. You just got a hoop and keep getting better. He will be the face of the game.
But Dylan's right, He's going to be everything we think he's going to be.
He is going to be more.
You just gotta what he can't skip steps right.
Well, we had conversation and I don't know if this is are the chat for this show that they were saying, if Tyres wins a chip, is he ahead of Reggie? If if Ant wins, if is he had a a KG, If Brunson win, is he the greatest? And and if Shaye wins the ahead a KD or Russ And it's just like it to me, it's not enough under the belt, like you gotta consistently do it. And granted, some of those guys that I mentioned, the O G guys that I played with didn't win rings in those particular spaces,
or the legends didn't win rings. But it's consistency over a number of years of what makes you jump. I mean, Kg put what sixteen years or how many years in thirteen years in Minnesota and all the shit he did, and Reggie put a lifetime in there, and then you know you're looking at Patrick Ewan and some of the other guys. Although Brunston I think has a chance if he can win it to become the greatest Nick. And
I say that with all the respect Brunton. Yeah, but yeah, it's it's it's a level of consistency through through a year in you're out that gets you to the top of these franchises in my opinion, I have.
A question for you that goes across a bunch of NBA discussions I'm having right now.
How much is winning?
Because you know, there's winning and there's misery, right, that's pat Riley.
Winning is the only thing blah blah blah blah.
But we're talking about the y Honest conversation. Should they trade Giannis? What's the value of having Yannis on your court as a buck even if you can't win. I would argue for that franchise, you're not getting another Honest anytime soon, so they're you know, just being in a hurry to tear it down and rebuild.
Doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
Like when you talk about who's the greatest Timberwolf player to ever be there, or who's the greatest nick or who you know? When we talk about the Lakers, right, who is the greatest player to wear a Lakers uniform is a very different conversation than who is the greatest Laker?
Right?
And like, how much is does a ring get you everywhere in that discussion? Or is it no?
Everything else you do but the.
Bar moves in every situation? Unfortunately, and Rachel, you came up in the air, and I grew up in an air watching and playing and where stars didn't move like they would go through spec what Kobe go through a five year drought where they were fucking dog shit, you know what I mean? But he rode that ship, and you give that respect. KG rode the ship for thirteen years until he finally jumped off and went to Boston.
So we live in an era where it's it's instant gratitude in it, and you see it in sports in general. You think about it, and I'll flip to football. Some of the great quarterbacks came in and Aaron Rodgers came in, and Soath what three years four years behind Brett Farb
and was able to learn and develop. Now because everyone is making some much money in all sports, you get thrown in the firepan right off the rip, and if it doesn't pay in your dog shit, you know what I mean, or whatever people want to call you, instead of allowing that time to develop to your point, you're definitely not getting another Giannis. You're not getting no big free agents. Dame was a huge move, but it wasn't necessarily free agency. It was coming to play with Giannis.
But if you move him and try to rebuild, I mean, you know what you're getting rid of and you know you're not gonna get nothing back. But again, we live in a society now where you know you you do you credit or you get mad at Lebron where he was the first superstar to really kind of start moving and guys see that, and he moved with success. Ron
moved and went and got three more championships. Now do you in the in the in the hierarchy of the game, do you look down on him when you're when you're when you're talking at the end, because he has a bunch of numbers, But if he would have stayed in Cleveland, how many chips would he have won? You know, Kobe stayed with the Lakers and rode those nasty seasons and
in won five chips. So it's just I feel like the goalpost moves when it comes to player movement these days, and who is the best and what route they took. I mean, it's all.
Subjective to me, and also a lot of its chance, yeah.
Kind of luck, kind of luck, Like.
It's who gets hurt win, right, it's Jayson Tatum gets injured or not. And by the way, I know the Knicks we're winning that game anyway. I know, I get it. But Jason Tatum being injured changes the trajectory of the Boston Celtics going forward. It's the bracket. Who do you get in the bracket? I think the La Clippers local here would have done better if they hadn't run into the Nuggets.
Right.
So, there's just so much throughout any postseason that is just damn luck. And then we sit there twenty years later and say, well, he didn't win a title there, right, KG didn't win a title there, so blah blah, blah blah.
It's just I don't know.
I am reevaluating a little bit when I have all these conversations of I get I'm not saying championships aren't important. Winning isn't important, But if you get a little new, more nuanced under than that, like, is it such a big deal that it's the only deal? And I do
not think it is. As someone who grew up in Washington, DC and whose team has not been to the third round of the playoffs in forty six years, I can tell you that it would have been nice when I was a kid to go see a Yanni Senta Takupo on my.
Team wearing my jersey. Even if we're weren't in a fucking win a title, it would have been nice. Yeah, lovey muxy Boks, but not the same.
It's interesting and obviously that's a hot topic because you think any team Yannis goes to, as long as I have to trade the whole team for him, is it going to be a contender. So we shall see a lot's been made of, you know, with Indiana and OKC or most likely don't want to jinx either of them going to end up in the finals. And how both these teams through Paul George trades have been built and crazy And here's a little bit of a little bit of how this is broken down. Actually, yo, I saw
someone break this ship down. And it started with the Rashard Lewis trade.
Yes, I did see.
That. Wasn't that good? Yeah, that was really good. But Patiers trade Paul George for Victor Olidipo and Sabonis traded Sabonis for Halliburton, and we are where we are next page, Thunders trade Paul George and I remember this too. This was Doc Rivers almost didn't get Kawhi because Kawhi's demand was PG and Doc did not want to trade SGA. Doc did not go back. Doc did not want to
trade SGA. He saw something in him. He t SGA and a ton of picks, and one of those picks is now Jalen Williams, first time All Star, second Team All Defense. Since we're talking about our guy, Paul and Paul you know, I love you, fuck with you, we need to get back on the golf course. His current team, Philly Rachel, I'm gonna give you the GM president role.
Both you have both hats on. Do you build around MAXI and McCain or do we keep our fingers crossed that someday we might get a Joe LMB that's going to play a lot of games and lead his team, and a Paul George is gonna find the magic.
He used to have a few things.
You just said, third pick in the draft right this year, third picking the lottery.
So we just have to remember the Paul George trade with the Clippers, and your DOCA is one hundred percent on the record, by the way, being like this is a mistake, yep, but it was for Paul George and Kawhi. Yes, and Sam Presty is a magician, and he was able to engineer and participate in and take advantage of a situation where the Clippers were over a barrel wanting Kawhi for reasons by the way, that had more to do than basketball and competing against the Lakers.
That sort of large shadow.
That he could have possibly went to the Lakers.
He was going to go to the So you remember what was going on at the same time, right, because Lebron was clearly coming to La Magic supposedly had the supposedly Magic had the meeting with him, you know, midnight oh three. But where I put the supposedly in is its supposedly that was like some big sel job.
That's the magic man, right.
I love Magic. By the way, this is not a knock on Magic. But Lebron was coming to Lakers. I mean they could have sent me in a wheelbarrow like like Lebron was coming to the Lakers, that is who he wanted to come play for. He was going to come play for. And Lebron could have demanded they get someone. Lebron could have demanded they go out and get Kawhi Leonard. Lebron could have played.
With Kawhi on the Lakers.
Lebron could have said, hey, go get this guy. He didn't do that, and there's pros and cons of him not doing that. Look what happened to the Clippers, But Kawai said it. He said I'm not coming, and he sort of played the Clippers and Lakers off each other.
He said, well, you know.
La, I could I could still come home to LA and just play for the Lakers instead and go play with Lebron and the Clippers.
The idea for.
Them of Kawhi and Lebron all across the hall in that Lakers locker.
Room couldn't have It was.
Just something that seems so deadly for the franchise that that's why they made that trade for Paul George, because I told, you know, asked them to and said that is how I am coming, and that's why they gave up so much. So I just when we sit back and tell the story of the Paul George trade, it was a Paul George for Kawhi swap in the Clippers minds, and San Presty only had to give up one of those guys.
For only to give up Paul George to get to get all he got. I don't you know. Look, I think the sixers are deep in it enough.
With Embiid, he's not in a kind of tradable position because when he's healthy, though he is scoring more than a point a minute at times.
Credible, right, wasn't that when? But we keep saying if, though I know, what if everyone over there is drunk, if it was a fifth because he when he is healthy there there's absolutely no question. And I would even argue at times that people are gonna think I'm crazy, like I don't know if I'm taking joker Embiid. With Embiid is fully healthy because Embid moves around more on defense, he could switch out on the pick and roll like Embiid went healthy is a problem. We keep saying win
or if, and it just hasn't. What are we your ten? Yeah?
He had some freaky shit too though he broke his eye at one point.
Yeah, Bell's palsy at one point. That's not his fault. Like I mean, there's been some horrible love luck.
But at the end of the dame, when we look at it, like I said, when we're looking twenty years, he just he wasn't out there is all and I'm a huge embiid as a monster. Then PG is making fifty to fifty five million until twenty twenty eight, so they're in deep with those two guys alone. Obviously. Maxie McCain third pick, I think.
What do you do, Darrel?
You think you're lucky stars the way the lottery worked out, because they could have lost that pick, by the way, if they were outside the top six.
So it was just a huge win all the way around.
And I think in the East that looks like it's about to maybe even get weaker. There's no Tatum next year if Jannis leaves the conference. And by the way, if I am the Bucks and I do trade you, honest, I'm sure as that the Drew Holiday.
Lesson is real.
People got to go to the West.
Do not trade him within the conference.
So if that happens the East is I mean again, you might be thinking about a comeback because.
There are some Yeah, it's crazy.
Right, I'm I'm one hundred percent if I'm Philly, there's no you're not getting the value you want from moving one of your big pieces right back.
See if you.
Can get if Joelle can now with all the rest, he's going to have had and the surgery he had and all the stuff. See if he can be more of the player you need him to be peek at the right time. Paul, George, you and I both think.
He still got some in the tank. There's no absolutely does and he told me too, and I'm obviously not going to put his But he went through some real shit this season, like real because I would call and check on him every once in a while, and he went through some real shit this year. And people don't understand how heavy that stuff is. Trying to and again it's not an excuse, it's just that mental side of the athlete is ninety percent of the game, ninety percent
of the game. So I expect Paul he still has something in his tank and something to prove. So would you possibly attached this third pick, which is a fairly deep draft with one of those stars I mentioned to move one of them.
So again this I'm going to keep saying it.
What kind of team do you want to see on the court? Am I tearing everything down all the time in the hope of maybe one day drafting someone as good as Joel Embiid. So we are just so quick right now to be like it's not working. Get rid of everyone, tear it down. Let's hope that we can get a bunch of picks. Picks don't play basketball. Picks do not put people in stands. They're just future things floating out.
In the world.
Like there is a point where you have to say, this is my team. These guys are good, my fans like them. Let's see if we can give it a go. I just think that people are so quick to tear down everything constantly.
You're not getting.
Value if you have to attach the number three overall pick to one of your biggest stars in the hope of what's a clearing salary to do what Presty.
Makes it look so easy, though, Rachel, Well, they haven't, won't They haven't.
And by the way, a lot of people haven't.
If they do win, yeah, and they are the favorite. And I now the Boston's at Boston was my pick.
I'm going freely. I'll say it over and over.
But now that Boston's out, like I okay, see, he's the obvious pick right now. Like if they win, it will still be one title in a sea of how many years have we've been talking about this? It is hard to win everything has to go right. You have to have the team. You have to have the player. Your guy has to have a great series. The health has to break the right way. The bracket has to break the right way. To do all of this roster madness.
If I am tearing everything up and throwing it out to start, hopefully five years from now we can be right.
Back where we were.
Right now is insane to be in this NBA. And I just I don't.
Think it's just the era of sports in general. It's just what have you done for me lately? There's no hey, let's figure.
It out or chantasy teams great the.
Process and in Philly's words, like it just doesn't. People are too impatient, Teams are too impatient. Owners are wilder than ever, and money is crazier than ever. And the movement makes our game grow even more so. It's just it's it's not what we grew up on.
I just I don't know. I think there's something too. I get it, we're in the era player movement.
I get it.
The kids now, I mean, your kids are fans of not even a team. I mean, do your kids even.
Have a favorite team or just players? I know, but I know they watched it.
Yeah, I mean they watched the team like the Warriors, Lakers, the teams I play for the teams. But those guys are on their way out because they.
But do they still love watching Staff because the fact that the Warriors only only got to the second round this year, does that mean that they don't love watching Staff, that they don't love watching a war If the Warriors are on in November, November, you know whatever, November seventeenth, h they're going to still click that.
Game on, right, yep?
Like there has to be some value in that for fans and teams and teams to be like, we still have Jowel Embiid and Philly fans love to wearing that jersey with Embad's name on the back. And let's see what the big man can do when he's healthy. I just to tear it all down, tear it all down, tear it all down, give away your future to tear it down.
I don't like man. Good luck to him be we're speaking. I would just love as a fan of him and how talented is I want him to be able to get some consistency out there. Rachel, thank you for stopping by. We will check back in before it's all said and done, have a good day. I've teamed up with DraftKings pick six for the Conference Finals Wednesday, Game five t Wolves
first the Thunder. I think Sga will continue on his scoring hot streak and he'll have more points than the DraftKings pick six people have him marked four and for the t Wolves after a rough game, I think Julius Randall will rebound and have more points than the DraftKings picks pick have him slated at Thursday Game five Pacers versus the Knicks. I think Jalen Brunson, after a poor shooting performance, will have more points than the DraftKings pick
six have him slated at. For the Pacers. After a big game, I think Pascal Siakam will have less points than the DraftKings pick six have him slated for Welcome back someone we haven't seen for a while because the Lakers have been in care and coon for what a month now? Gino Rose Sparks Davis, how are you bro?
They calling me the Rock now?
Baby? That's what someone said the chatter. Who the fuck is the Rock Rock without the row? Baby?
You know what I'm saying.
Come on, that's what we have going on so Gino as a basketball fan, someone who's been spoiled with excellence, as a Laker fan, someone who is a gross exaggerator of life, would okay seeing the Pacers be a bad finals to watch.
I mean, that's worse than the Cleveland OKAYC Finals that we were anticipating, right, Like, who thought the Pacers would be anywhere close to the finals this year? Come on? And to be honest with you, what do you mean, like, it's not haller Burton city if Indiana wins this.
Year, I mean, it's going to be a city because he's a current player.
They're not gonna remember Reggie Miller ever again. If haller Burton wins the fucking championship. Ye, that's the dumb ship. Is the reason why I brought you on. He say, so they can attack you and.
Get them.
Come on, no, but seriously, hold on, but seriously.
Good basketball. We talked. I talked about it with Rachel. That's not the big names, it's not the big marks necessarily outside of New York. But I feel like, and I agree with you, I think it is going to be an OKAC Pacers final. And although it's not traditional, it's not I still Both those teams are playing really good basketball. Both those teams are deep. Both those teams
coaches are out there doing their thing. One thing about Carlisle, He's been able to make adjustments on the fly and a lot has gone into the success of the Pacers and where they're at. But I still think, although it's not the box office we think of when we think of the NBA NBA Final, I think it's going to be a very competitive finals. I don't know what the numbers and the ratings will do, but it'll definitely be some good basketball.
I mean for non casual fans, come on.
You're right or OKAC as a whole, and the SGA is the m v P and then Halliburton's been Is that going to draw people? We shall see. We don't know. There's been a video going around of Luca, and Luca looks like he's in great shape. He heard you and the rest of the fans there he is. Look at him, slim thug. That's the one thing I said. And obviously he came in the midst of the season. LA is not a place that you're going to take so much heat and criticism about shit that you're going to work
on whatever needs to be worked done. And obviously we're not even maybe a month away from when they last finished playing. And Luca looks in great shape. So when you see him in that type of shape after you said you should the team should trade him, what do you think?
I mean, it's the first point of business for him. Yes, you know, because he's taking hell in the media for being chubby, you know what I mean, can't put down the plate drinking bud.
He has a body frame like you. Yeah, Yeahhall, absolutely yeah.
But I'm hot out here though, so but yes, it's a good start for the city to see him taking the shit serious. It's the first point of business and I'm looking forward to next season to see what he can really do. I think he saw the old video of himself at Dallas and really got inspired by that.
When young Luca was looking and turn it out on people. Word is I saw something earlier today that Broun is most likely to opt out of his fifty two million dollar deal at this point in his career. Is this something where you see he'll opt out take less to hopefully bring other another talent in.
I mean, I would speak volumes of his character. I mean he has enough money. Man Like, I don't think it's a financial thing for him, but you know who, I can't talk about a man's pockets.
As a fan. Do you hope that actually absolutely? Could do?
Absolutely, and plus it will save his career, So should he make an adjustment to safe some more years of his career.
Absolutely, you know what I think. And it's because we always know that Braun is in peak shape. He does everything he can do. The fact is the fact, though he's getting older, and we saw he just ran out of gas came come late in the season. So it's just like, I think, to your point, if there's any way to be able to add more, and we saw right off the rip Roblink came out and said there's been some demands made and we're going to go out and do our best to meet though. So it'll be
interesting to see the way that situation shakes out. And you know, the Lakers always somehow, some way make something happen, So I'm definitely interested to see what can work out as the team is currently constructed, and again with Bron going into your twenty two next year or twenty three three, holy shit, twenty three going into year twenty three next year. The players you bring in moving forward are those to work around Luca or to work around Bron's last couple of years in the league.
I think both can be true. Lebron still the guy for our team no matter how you look at it. What can we bring in though?
To thank you? Guys need some dogs, some wing defenders that really get out there, possibly three and D.
So a Giannis tre wouldn't help us.
Gianni is going to your team would help anything, but it would help anything. But it's just you know, how does that work? Numbers wise? Has Austin reeves he's someone wins he up next year or the year after. Yeah, he's on one of the most favorable deals you'll ever get. He's going to demand and I'm something people think I might. He might fuck around and get north of one fifty maybe two hundred million from another team the way he US have played. So is that an asset that you
possibly look to move? There? Adamant about not moving him. So there's a lot of ifs and what ifs. They're going to happen this season or summer, this free agency. So I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what happens The Bucks hope that Doc rivers presence will convince Giannis to stay longer. Reported by Mike stein Onto the Coop and Rivers are believed to have a strong working relationship. Is Doc Rivers the reason Jannis won't force a trade?
I don't know if that's the case. I think that city is just in a bad situation. You know how it goes when you win a championship and then your expectations are so high afterwards, What could they do over there? Like Giannis is the only hope for that city for the next decade, Like, why would you want to move your star? Like, let's be honest, I wouldn't want to move our star.
You got to be interesting to see if he and he's never been a guy that he's very been very loyal and hasn't even allowed conversation to really be brought up. He's always dead it, but he's not dead in it anymore. So it'll be really crazy to see him move to your point small market like Milwaukee. He's done everything he's done there and accomplished there. You know you're not going to get anything near the return of what he's been able to give you. But we live in a society
of what have you done for me lately? And we live in a society of player moving and in particular superstar movement. So will he join the you know, the train to get to a bigger market and a situation to win? We will see uh Man. Moving ahead to the women's game. I got a chance to take Ava and one of her friends for eighth grade graduation to a sparse game the other day, bro and I was so impressed with kel Plumb. So obviously she ended up with what did she score that game? Third? Or twenty
eight and eight and three? But it was a slow start for her. But it wasn't only how hot she got, but it's the way she moves and orchestrates the offense and it's always encouraging on. I hadn't seen her playing a while, and obviously I got a chance to see her playing person in Vegas, and obviously her role on that team was different with Asia and all the talent they had over Chelsea Gray and those ladies over there. But with this team that's kind of obviously Cameron brings coming
back and what's her name's coming back to? Yeah, you know, not fully healthy. The way she's playing thinks she's averaging twenty five a game, but I was just really impressed with just the way she ran that team bro and and the big after big shot after big shots she hit. I'll also say that was the first time I got to see Angel Rees playing person. And no matter how much shit people talk about her, she has a huge fa Like in LA, there were people screaming her name
and cheering for when she did good shit. She's got a lot of criticism lately with Caitlyn clarkshit. I'm not even going to get into that, but what I'll say is like she works her fucking ass off on the boards, whether she's rebounding her shot or not. She's rebounding and she plays with the motor, and I think there's a big debate about her and her she's leading league and rebounding I think it nearly fourteen points a game, and some people's offensive repertoire come in the league ready for
that league. Whatever NBA or not or WNBA, she'll get her offensive. You know, it's situation down. But she's nearly at a double double consistently, you know what I mean. So I think the hate and criticism she takes is more from people that just just want to talk shit and don't necessarily watch the game and see that there is definitely potential there. But yeah, man, I had a good time. Ava had a good time. It was good to get to a Sparks game. I hadn't been one
in such a long time. I was there with KD.
I saw Katie.
Yeah, he was chilling. We had a good time, caught up a little bit, talked a lot of shit. Be interesting to see where he goes this off season. I heard the Spurs are ready to make a move for him. Where would you see who is more likely to move in your Opinionani, KD?
KD for sure, he's up out of there.
And three spots you wouldn't mind seeing KD.
I mean, first spot for him would be going to Houston and get on with that team. Another spot would be OKAYC again, you know, depending on especially if they lose in the finals this year, if they even make it to the final, but if they lose in the finals, they'll be looking to change that team, maybe just a little bit, so you don't think so. And then my third team is Golden State, obviously interesting, but you don't think they'll be reade.
The movie anybody too young, too young, and who you would have to give up to get a kd is Or would you give up Jayden, a young Jalen Williams. Would you give up a chet someone who's been huge for them offensively and defensively, Dort Island. Dort has shown in Knee he's a motherfucker. He's already shown, but in these he's with help. He's given at Edwards hell. So, I mean, they have a lot of pieces, but I just don't think this team is too young to do
any kind of adjustments. I think Hardenstein needs to look to be a little bit more aggressive offensively. I think that would help their team. But outside of that, I think this team is a set for the next handful of years. But Gino, it's good to see you back. I appreciate you. Rock is what they're calling you in the streets these days. Brick oh brick. Now all right, bro, I appreciate you guys. Absolutely. It's a wrap. You can catch us on all the Smokes productions, YouTube and the
DraftKings Network. We'll see y'all next week.