My luggage consist of a toiletry bag. Kyrie consists of Louis luggage, all kinds of Gucci luggage, you name it. Go Yard, he got every type of luggage you got. So I don't have all that.
But what I can say, welcome back to Unplugged, our weekly look around sports, culture in entertainment.
Jack, how are you, bro? I'm good? My boy was the word I saw.
Y'all had a great time at the Gumbo. At the Gumbo wedding, Get my best to them. I heard that that she looked like a movie. Yeah, shout out Luca and Alex.
It was a beautiful wedding of the most extravagant wedding I've been too mad. I mean they had food trucks with chop cheese. They somebody drove a fresh wooden stove to make pizzas outside. They changed the room in the hotel from a club to a gun Mumbo store to after ours.
It was unbelievable.
No expense was spared. Man, tell my say congratulations Chicago. Man, Chicago was his success. Thank you to everyone who played a part, our team, our guests, the city for accepting us. We're definitely looking forward to getting back out on the road this fall. We'll have some recap of the live show of our favorite moments. You know, we gave away a lot of merch, got to meet a lot of people. Uh, Antoine Walker blessed us. Uh, you got into a back and forth with the fan which was fast.
He can't prepared with his jokes.
Cleo's Uh, Southern Kitchen blessed us. Do you remember what the dude they brought the wings was because them rings was other ribs. Ribs was five yr You want the smoke barbecue? Appreciate you, bro. That was amazing. The entire show drops tomorrow. Then we were also excited as we were out there, we got a chance to sit down with the one and only Ronnie Fields. So stay tuned, yes for that episode.
All right.
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officially launched. How have you enjoined it? I mean you told us at the beginning we started doing this, this is your lane. You know how to promote this ship. You know how to sell this ship right now. Go to drinkineos dot com for free shipping for all orders right now. So talk to us about this alcohol that we have.
Jack.
And you know you've been very intricral in this and and and and feel like this is your lane right here.
Yeah, you know, this is this is something special, man.
I think, uh, the mescale game is a lot of people are getting in the Medscale game, but I think we were blessed to to be able to partner with some great people. Shout out to all our family in Hawaika. If I'm pronouncing that right, wahaka excuse me, wahaka wahaka wha haaka Wahaco Mexico. Man, they're doing a great job out there. We got got to meet our family and friends. But yeah, man, it's best served cold, Matt, as as as a lot of things like revenge is it's best
served cold. And the thing about it, Matt is, I took it to Luca and lexis where and we did his first toast with all his grooms men and guys with the Neo.
So I showed a video and everybody loved it. Everybody's dying to get more bottle.
So right now when we're in the process of getting into the right hand, getting into all our friends and all our celebrity friends that we know, so people can get the taste.
So because we're gonna let the products speak busself.
Definitely, definitely that's again drinkinneos dot com. Use promo code free or use code free shipping for all orders right now for free shipping, man, So stay tuned. We got a lot of dope stuff. And then Jack something. I know you're very excited about it, and we're very excited about ATS fight. All the smoke is now in the fight space, which will include boxing and MMA. You got to show you started at our old company, fight Town.
You've been able to bring that over and re light the fire in the first episode is out right now with Roy Jones and Benevetez. So tell us a little bit about that and how fun it's been getting that back on track.
May you know, I excited how much I love boxing math things. To be able to get to show off the ground again under ATSP is beautiful.
Man.
He was able to get down to Miami spend some time with Roy Jones, pick his brain, learn what do you think about the boxing game right now? In Benavidez said that Roy Jones is one of his favorite He used to watch him growing up. So we popped up on Bena Vidaz and was able to see Roy Roy give him some tools.
So I'm just excited to be in the boxing game.
Matt excited where we're going and the things that we have in store moving forward for this game is exciting.
Yeah, definitely, Man, ATS Fight coming soon. We got another a lot of other verticals coming soon that we're excited to not so man, So we're gonna be across all the boards and all the sportsman, So saving should you guys stay locked in. Now we want to welcome our brother to the show. Three time NBA champ Basketball Grow, one of the best minds in the game, teaches everyone from children's to the pros. We're gonna talk NBA finals and the landscape of women's basketball. Welcome to the show,
our brother, friend of the program. Feel handy, Phil, Welcome to the show.
Man.
We appreciate you. Obviously, legendary player development guru, NBA assistant coach, three time NBA champion. That shit sound good? Feel what's going on? Man?
What's up?
Matt Man?
It's always a pleasure to be here with you guys. Man, thanks for having me.
It's good to see you.
Man.
See we're catching you right before workouts.
Right, yes, sir, out here at the Sports Academy. Man, it's kind of where I spent a lot of my free time. I got some workouts coming in this morning.
Okay, So I mean, obviously, someone who's been in the finals a lot kind of just being able to be a spectator and a fan Obviously, of guys you've trained who are in the finals, what have you thought about the finals thus far?
Man, this year has been It's been an interesting finals. I think that you know, the first couple of games in Boston, you know, a lot of people are like Dallas has done, but I mean, really, what Boston has done is just taking care of home court advantage, you know, and that's what you play for throughout the regular season, right to have home court advantage to where you can you can sleep in your bed in the first couple of games and hopefully take care of that home court.
And I think obviously the first game, Boston shot the lights out. They couldn't miss. Having Presinger's back has been big for them. And then you know, I think game two was a lot more competitive, right, You kind of saw Dallas make some adjustments, played a lot better game, a little bit closer, and I just think that, you know, once they get their whole team on track, you know, game game three to night Man, you might see you
might see a different story. Hopefully Boston. Boston understands that now the series is going to begin, right, They've taken care of business at home, but you get on the road now, you got to win that. You got to win that first game on the road to where to where you actually make it, make it to where you kind of put put yourself in a position of being in the power seats. So Dallas has got to come with it tonight.
Man.
Yeah, no, I definitely agree. Obviously, there's a saying in the NBA that doesn't start till someone wins on the opposing team's court. So Boston has a chance. I'm gonna throw some numbers out right now because they're to me, they're pretty staggering on both sides.
You know.
Obviously Lucas doing what he's doing, thirty one, ten and six fifty percent from the field, thirty from three. My surprise right now is kind of I think in everyone's surprise has been Kyrie only fourteen points a game, shooting thirty five percent from the field. PJ. Washington and Derek Jones, who's been instrumental throughout this run to the finals, two for thirteen from the three, Lively, his numbers are down in twenty minutes, team overall is shooting twenty four percent
from the three. So you know, Dallas is in this two hole as we speak. But then on the flip side Boston those five porzingis. I mean, it looks like he missed no time sixteen to five and with two and a half blocks per game sixty percent from the field. Tatum has been struggling thirty one percent from the field twenty eight from three, but also leading the finals in the sists, So he's still finding ways to be effective on the court. And I think the unsung hero. I
think this guy's entire career. But obviously everyone knows how important and how talented he is. Drew Holliday right now, you know, front runner, it's early for front runner for finals MVP averaging nineteen and ten and four on sixty five from the field and forty four from the three point line and guarding Luka and Kyrie Jack. What has jumped out to you so far in these first two games from either side of the floor.
Well, I mean, you know, we talk about all the time about the shots that Dallas was making in the Western Conference Finals. Well, I understand that those shots are different in the finals. The level the every possession counts. Everybody that can make shots in the West Conference Finals might not be able to make them in the finals because just because of what the game means and and everything that's on the line.
But you got to give Boston. You got to give Boston credit with their defense, right.
I think we talk about all the time about taking loving guys that take pride in defense, where Ju Holley has been that guy from day one. He's been that on every team. He's been a guy that takes pride on playning defense. And he understands you can't stop Kyrie, but you can make it difficult. And what Drew is doing, he's taking away things that we know Kyrie loves to do best, the direction he likes to go all the time.
You just ain't stopping him.
He just making the difficult for him because you can't stop a guy like Kyrie Kyrie, but Drew is doing the best job you possibly could do.
Uh.
Dallas, guys, they're getting those same open shots they was getting the West Conference Finals, Matt, they're just not making them.
They just they're just not knocking them down.
So if like, like like Phil said, if they can go home tonight and and do something different, which which is gonna be hard to see.
Uh.
He's always good sleeping in your own bed, waking up, shooting on your own rims. It always feels better, but whether the level of the game and what's on the line right that what's on the line right now, you can't change that. So you some people barbecue meill Do in these moments, and it's the perfect time to see who's gonna barbecue meill Do?
Game three, well, I mean, I think obviously too role players historically, their numbers are better at home, and and you will say, obviously Dallas is led by Kyrie and and Luca, but their role players have been tremendous, you know what I mean. So their little off rhythm right now,
off focus. So I think possibly getting back on rhythm at home is going to be be an official I don't know if either you two saw it, but I saw a clip yesterday and obviously it's a little older, but Drew Holliday in the summertime, and they showed about six or seven clips of him just guarding people one on one, completely locking them down. Phil for two questions. One, have you had a chance to work with Drew and
they looked like it was up at Sports Academy? Have you seen or worked with other players that really in the offseason train their defensive game as well? As their offensive game.
I mean, you don't, man, you don't see you see a lot of guys will play one on one in the offseason, Matt, you know so. Look I've seen Drew here every summer at some point you know where he gets in the gym, he works on his game. But not only is he working on a game. At some point in the summer, Man, you saw those clips. He likes to play a lot of one on one, you know, where he can again continue to improve his game on
both sides of the ball. Look, you think, think about when we were growing up as kids, right, all we did was what play one on one? That's all we did. Growing up. You played a lot of one on one against your friends, against your brother, whoever it was. So that put you in a position and where not only were you working on your offensive game, but you had to learn how to guard people. There was nobody else around, so you had to be monoy mono and have that. I think today's player they missed that.
A lot.
A lot of guys don't like to compete in the summertime in that sense of well, let me be on the island. Let me see if I can stay in front of three or four different cats in the summertime and really work on my individual game. And that's what you see from Drew. Drew was just Drew's old school man. I'm happy. I'm happy for this kid. I think Boston in the sense that Boston won, they won the trade, they won the whole trade games with that trade with Drew. I said it last year. I was like, oh man,
this is made for TV. If Drew and the Boston Celtics played the Milwaukee Bucks in the Eastern Conference Finals, that's just it's too good. But you know before that kid, man, what you see from him, like Stack said Kyrie is is probably we've all had the argument, arguably the most skilled player to ever play, can you stop him? No, but you can certainly make it hard for him and make it difficult for him to make the shots that
he likes to make. And that's what you've seen from game to game one and two from Drew in terms of just let me make it difficult for this dude, man, let me limit his ability to get to his spot. Can I make him take a shot one or two feet further away from the paint that he normally gets to? And I just see you see a guy that's really locked in. But Drew's always been like that though right follow his career. Man Drew has always been a dude
that's been both sides of the ball. So you want to talk about two way players, he's the best two way player in the league. Like being able to guard, being able to play, and look, people forget about his scoring because he's on Boston. Man, Drew's a bucket. Don't get it twisted. That man has been a bucket his whole career. But he's he's accepted the role of let me kind of put my offense to the side and let me be this guy that Boston needs me to be so we can win this ship.
Yeah right, I mean we've been saying that's just since we started the show was five years ago. Jack, I mean, the most underrated player in the game. Obviously, I don't think he's underrated. I think people are finally starting to see, you know, with him going to Milwaukee and now with Boston, I mean, what he's been able to bring. But like Phil, we've been knowing this, We've been seeing this ship. They knew it. You know, it might be new to some people because they didn't get to see him to play
on the biggest stage. But he's been doing this. There's been thirty six instances in Finals history where team's gone down two five teams have ever come back and won the Finals. Phil, you were on the staff in sixteen that was down, you know, three to one, was able to come back and change the game. In that locker room at that time, was there a shifting point? Was
it coaches? Wasn't more players? What was the focus in the attention to detail to kind of flip the switch for that sixteen tremendous turnaround?
Man, I'll started with t Lou like t Lou was, he was just calm, right, Teelu and bron Man, they were so calm. After I think it was game four, right, we were in Cleveland and the Warriors beat us game four and we went down three to one. We got into that locker room. Telu's message was there was no panic. The locker room is actually pretty pretty calm, pretty quiet, guys. Nobody had their head down. But the message that Tlu gave to the team immediately was listen, we got one
game to focus on. If you guys don't think we can go to Golden State and win this next game, do not get on the plane. Those were his exact words, and Bron had the same sentiment. And I think the whole shift, right was obviously when people think about when you're down three to one, you start thinking about all the other games. There's only one thing that you need to think about, and that's the next game. How do we win this next game? That's it. That was one
of the major things that people. People don't understand when you're in that kind of a hole. Man, just one game at a time. So we went, we got on that plane. I think some of the adjustments we made, we played Richard Jefferson more. Richard Jefferson was on the floor, and we may have if I'm thinking correctly, we may have even started Richard game five. He might have started in place with Kevin Love. Kevin had a little bit of an injury. I don't want to miss quote, but
I believe Kevin had an injury. We might have started Richard in game five, which was at that time, and Richard was just a plug and play guy for us. You know, he could he could stress the floor, he could guard multiple positions, and keV accepted it and came off the bench. Game five still played well, but obviously Kyrie and Bron they carried a major load in that Game five series, and that was the real focus, right.
We didn't think about nothing else. We have to win Game five and that just kind of carried us the rest of that the rest of that series. They played that Game five. When we got back to Cleveland, man, we all knew if we get back to Cleveland, our fans are gonna help us carry this thing to Game seven. And it was, man, Cleveland was rocking. That place was nuts, And the biggest thing was just the mindset, right, mindset, have some belief. Yeah, we're in this hole, we'll have
some belief. Golden State's a great team. But we felt like we were a great team too, And the guys were just locked in. Man, they were locked in for Game five to do whatever it took to win win that game.
So you guys go home, obviously had the crowd behind you Game six, get that win. What's that locker room like pregame Game seven in the bay, I'm sure you guys are just full of cups.
Well, even before we got the game seven, Matt, there's a story of t Lou. Tlu puts some money he puts some money in up to one of the rafters, you know the remember the old collegeum tlu puts some money up in one of the rafters and said, look, man, I'm leaving this money here. We coming back here for game seven. This money gonna be here.
When we did that, after what game five?
It was game four game excuse me, I can't remember what game it was. But he put that money. He put that money in the rafters, and we had to go back to Cleveland and win game six, and we had to come back for game seven. But the locker room motivation, like I said, started way before that, man, and the mentality of just taking it one game at a time, it carried over when we got to game six. We weren't thinking about game seven. All we were thinking
about today. Man, we're here in Cleveland. We got to take care of this game. Let's handle business first. Keep your mind, keep your mind locked on what's in front of you. And that was all we thought about. But when we got to we got back to Golden State for game seven, you know, all Tlew and bron and the rest of the guys who talked to Bat was like, man, this is what you play for. This is what you live for. Game seven in the NBA Finals right now,
it's anybody's game. Anything can happen. And the main thing was just go out and play. And I remember the game seven, man, we had a decent first half. I think we were down eight at the locker room and we came into the locker room and Tilu was just like, look, man, we got twenty four minutes. Somebody in this all of you, some of you, somebody in this locker room got stepped up. We came out of the locker room.
I think j R.
Smith scored the first eight points kept us in the game, and that was just something that was huge for us because he made big shots at the beginning of the third quarter. And from that point on, man, it was just what it was, back and forth. One point game, two point game. And it was that game came down to the final final four minutes. Nobody was really scoring. You know, then you have bron with the block, you got Kyrie with the shot, and then you got Kevin
Love with the stop. You know those three possessions, man, or what what kind of sealed that deal for us in that game seven?
Jack as a as a score yourself put yourself. In Kyrie Sho's first two games back in Boston hostile crowd obviously struggled for teen points in Game thirty six from the field. What is your mindset, knowing that you're going back home and that the team really needs you to score? How do you get yourself going in those situations? If you're in that situation, Well, my.
Luggage consist of a toiletry bag. Kyrie consists of Lewis luggage, all kind of Gucci luggage, you name it, go yard.
He got every type of luggage you got. So I ain't have all that.
But what I can say, Kyrie has enough intelligence on the court to switch up his luggage and pack a different bag.
So I think he's gonna come to that. I think he gonna come to the game tonight.
If I was him, I catched the ball to the basketball, I start using my post game on Drew Drews moves his feet more than anybody, But Kyrie has one of the best shooting guard point goings post games we've ever seen.
So if I was Kyrie, I wouldn't work so hard.
I started catching the ball a little close to the basket, lay off the pick and rolls I only do the pick and rolls and transition. But in half court, I catch the ball on the block where I can look to seehere the double come from and give my one two jump two dribble jumple go.
That's different putting the PG on the block. But if there's any PG in the game that could do that, it's him.
That's part of his luggage. That's stack say, that's part of his luggage.
Absolutely, Phil, I'm putting it out here because I know it's gonna happen in the future. You're down, Oh two man, you're going back home? Oh team the finals. What's your message to your team? Ah?
Man, listen they the main message is right, they took care of business again, like we talked about. You know, I think a lot of people want to get all get all hectic and start panicking. They won their first two games at home. They did what they were supposed to do. Can we go and steal one, that's the mission? But all right, we didn't steal one. Now we're at home.
Our job is to take care of home court. Message is simple, man, like right, don't get over you know, never too high, never too low where That's why it's a seven game series. Now we're at home for Game three. Let's lock in and take care of business at home. I think the biggest thing for Kai, Look, man, Kai is a bucket. Kay is a champion. People forget that too. Kay's got a lot of he got a lot of NBA Finals experience. He's been down two before, He's been
down three to one before. Right, think the thing for Kai Drew is a He's just a dynamic defender. How much can you get Drew off of his body? Right? Stack talk about taking him to the post? You know, I would he be in the sense of you know, Dallas has kind of played their style of Basketball's got him to this point. They got two of the best closers in the game. How do you get Drew off of Kyrie's body?
Right?
I want to bring some of these other guys into the matchup. Let me put a lesser defender. Can I come set some screens? Let me get make him switch, you know, make some of these other guys have to guard Kyrie that don't guard the way Drew do, so that that gives him the ability to, like Stack say it, not to have to work so hard against an elite defender.
But let me take one of these other guys. He might be a good defender, but he's not Drew Holliday, right, So how can I bring some of these other guys that don't defend as well into the action to where now I can give Kyrie some freedom? How can I set some off ball screens for him to allow him to run freely without the ball and catch the ball
to live dribble. I think there's all kinds of different things that that Dallas can do that's inside the system, that you can get Drew off of his body, that will allow him to kind of free up and play against lesser defenders a little bit more.
We have a different series.
This is justin Jack, go and break the news, bro.
We have a different series. Celtis Chris stopp persingis so for the torn media, I can't say that word, but that ismes that word. I don't allow allowing dislocation of the posteria to Belisses tendon, whatever that is.
It ain't good for Boston because they needed that.
Oh Man to the ship. So that's down. I mean that started with the calf.
Then I'm guessing the posterior Tiberlis tended Tiberlis tendon.
Both of y'all been in the finals back in your cabin the back of your calf.
Damn.
I always heard of the finals.
Man, but but but we've all been like, the injuries are just that is everybody. Look, man, I've been on both sides of it. I've been on the winning side guys have been injured, and I've been on the losing side were guys have been injured in that part right there. Yeah, ooh, that's a game changer. That's a that's a game changer.
I mean, this is obviously unfortunately because and Jack, we talked about this coming in. You know, these calves are are are tricky. This similar to with KD. KD tried to push through uh, you know, in that Toronto ship and unfortunately Tours Achilles. We're hoping this isn't as bad for for Zingis, but I mean he's out now due to the you know, it's and it started with the calf strength. So this completely changes the trajectory the energy
of this series. And you know, Dallas has to take advantage of this.
Matt we three game uh, I think game two or three dirt go down in the West Conference Finals in Dallas. I guess when I was with the Spurs. You think that didn't help us in that series? Bro, that's big, that's big. That's big. But that's big for Dallas. I ain't saying Dallas should be like, oh yeah, we're gonna win now because of poor niggas. But that's that's a that's a big notch that somebody that you don't have to worry about coming in giving ten to fifteen points in four or five blocks.
He was changing a lot of shots for them.
Yes, yeah, Tim mcmannimon from ESPN. Missoula says this is a serious injury and the Celtics medical team would make the decision about Porzingis's availability, doing anything and everything he can to be able to play. Missoula said, and this is I don't like this. I just don't like this. And obviously it's the finals and we've all you know, been players and and and feel you're on the coaching side now. But I think this is a sign right here,
you know what I mean? And as bad as this championship is to this team, do you risk this guy's possibly furthering further damaging his body?
Jack?
You know, you know, man, I mean you know, look, certain guys, right you make it to this point in your career, you in the finals, You're gonna do everything you can to play. So it might not even be medical, right. It could be the medical saying no and he's like, no, I'm playing.
No.
Sometimes, Matt, You guys we've all played with players. You guys are built like that too, right, You you go through your whole career and you're gonna give every opportunity and I'm trying to play. I'm gonna try to play. You know, you never know if you're gonna get back. So it's a combination. I think it's a combination. Man, depends on what kind of mindset Christoph's has and where he is, knowing his body.
He's been injury ridden. Not to cut you off, feel he's someone who struggled with injury throughout his career. We've seen, you know, the ups and downs and forty of his journey, and when he's healthy, he truly is a unicorn. Jack your thoughts with what we just heard on the injury and then now that he's still trying to push through as well.
Well, I mean I just don't see it happening.
And he pushed so hard to be able to play in the finals remember they were talking about he wouldn't play Game one to two, but that extra time gave them, you know what I'm saying, gave him a littit more time to rest.
He don't have that time now.
The rest, you know, it's every other day thing. And like like like coach, like Phil said, either you got it or you don't.
Everybody's hurt it the season.
Obviously it's unfortunate because his injury is way more serious. But at this point of the season, Bro, I think if you can't actually give your team a good effort out there where you're not where you're helping the team and not hurting them, you play. But if it's a possibility that you can hurt yourself going to next season and hurt the team, it's a no brainer.
Just sit out.
Yeah, that's just God being there too. I mean, this change is completely changing. If he's out, this changes the directory trajectory.
Of well, you know what though, Matt like like, if he's out, look, Dallas can't relax. Like again, I've been in that at all, Like like when I was in Toronto. Look, all of those guys got hurt, Kadie got hurt, Clay got hurt, and the only thing I kept saying, we still have to win these games, and you still got to play, right, There is no why those dudes are hurt.
We still got to go win the games. And so that's the mindset that Dallas has to be in, Like, all right, they wont man down who's been a big part, they still got to go do their part.
Yeah. Absolutely, it's a wounded dog transitioning our girl Juju. You've had her in the lab. I got a chance to see her play for the first time live this season at SC and when I tell you, first of all, nineteen for nineteen from the or eighteen for eighteen for the free throw line. The way she got it to her ship fell and got to her spots and would pull and use the glass in the mid range and
fade off the double out of the day. It was scary to think that she's really only I think she's only eighteen or nineteen, like she's a young freshman, but her game is very grown. So you know, as you guys, you know you get opportunity to work with her. Have you worked with her in the past, first, and what kind of stuff do you guys work on when you guys are in there together. Man.
I've been working with Juju since she was a I think freshman in high school. We go back years, we go back some time. Man. I've known Juju for for some years and we've we've had a chance to build a great relationship. She's a killer, bro, she is a straight up killer. But but the thing I love about her is one her parents. You know, Bobby and Sure, her parents are phenomenal. They've done a great job of
just raising her. Her dad has done a great job of like working with her on shooting and just kind of giving her a fundamental base. And then her humility. Like people talk about her basketball game. You ever around Juju off the court, man, her humility is unreal, like the kind of person she is, so that carries over into her approach to the game, like her attitude that come to the game. She's trying to learn, man. She wants to be great. She wants to understand the nuances
of Man, how do I be great? How do I beat double teams? You know, teams are trying to force me are how do I get better at this? What does my base look like in the post? Like she asked? She asked so many questions to make sure that she's like really trying to get her game right. And then I just love the fact that for her, man, her star just took off, but she's still the same kid that she was, you know, back in the ninth grade. Like so for me, just all of those intangibles we
talk about what we see on the court. She's just a good human being that's super talented at basketball. And I just think mat she's still scratching the surface. She still has so much more.
She's still a baby.
Watch her like right now. Look, she's super skilled, she can play, but when she starts to think the game and understand the game from a more IQ point, then they're really gonna be in trouble. That's what it's really gonna be scary for for the next level, because she's just now entering into that realm of really starting to understand the nuance a game. How do I read defenses? All of that stuff.
Oh yeah, it's going to be a beautiful thing to continue to see her grow and obviously wish her the best. What's your observation right now of the women's game the media. I mean, you know, I'm someone who says, you know, as you ask for growth, and you get growth, you can't pick and choose what parts come with it, because there's been a lot of bullshit and dumb things said, and a lot of how people just had a lot of just dumb like come on, like what are you
talking about moments. But you know, overall feels someone you've trained men and women some of the best in the world. Obviously, there's a lot of talk right now about you know, Caitlyn not making the Olympic team. So I want to open up the floor to both of you guys. But before I do, you know, you think back to the men's game, and there's been times with the Dream Team where they put later on and I remember early on they were putting ad on those teams when he wasn't
necessarily ready. So you look at it from that stump point of view. But at the same time, when I look at that twelve women roster for that team currently, there's not a person that you know, the Caitlyn is technically okay, yeah, Caitlyn, but you can't say that. You know, they got some dogs and there was still some real snubs. I forgot the girl's name, but she's the second leading scorer in the league. She was you know, she was
someone that possibly could have been on that team. So what are your guys' thoughts on just the the energy around the game and particularly you know, this Olympic team selection.
Look, man, I'm heavily engrossed in the women's game, Matt, just just on the on the high school level and the pro level. You know, I've worked with I've worked with Jewel Lloyd for years, so I've had a chance to really see the women's game up close. Look, man, I think the first thing that people make a mistake is they don't look at these women as athletes. That's first and foremost. You know, stop talking about women's basketball. These they are athletes. Like these these women are hoopers.
They go and hoop, they go and train, they go and prepare themselves just like we do, right, just like you guys did, so under standing at their athletes. First, you know, the growth of the game women, the women's game is about to be on a massive explosion, and Kaitlin the kid Angel reach the whole that whole college program them some of them lasers just came in, they had them. They play a major role in just the growth of the game. You know, the don Staleys of
the world. What's going on down in South college basketball is helping the women's game grow exponentially. So the whole thing that you see with Kaitlyn Man, She's got a fan base, she got a real fan base that is coming from Indiana, but now it's worldwide. And so the growth of the women's game, like you said, Matt, it's gonna it's gonna come with good and bad. But when they're talking about you, that's what you want. Now the women's game is getting major, major, major attention on every
news outlet. You know, you want some of it to calm down, some of this chatter, some of the things that are happening. I think those things will go away, you know. But but the focus is that these women can hoop. You know, they they are hoopers. The game is owing, the game is changing. Now you see a lot more women trying to dunk. Where is that? You know, where is that gonna lead to in the other arts parts of the game. But just can we treat them
like athletes first and foremost? And then the whole thing with Kaylen make Taylor's time is coming. She knows it. What I love about her attitude is that she's like, Yo, man, I'm gonna keep working. I'mnna keep doing what I'm doing. I love the game. She loves to compete. Y'all want to take cheap shots at me, whatever, it's part of the game. I'm I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep hooping. I just love her attitude in the space that she understands that there's a competitive spirit to the game and
she's gonna keep competing and trying to get better. So if it's not this Olympics is certainly the next one, she'll be there.
Absolutely. Jack your thoughts Obviously, we've discussed the women's game a lot, but what are your thoughts on the the I don't know if you even call the outrage. I don't know if you want to call it outrage. But you know, Caitlin not making this Olympic team, It's part.
Of the game. Man, sh ain't the person go through.
It ain't gonna be the l you know what I'm saying that That's that's just what I think about it.
Bro.
She everybody knows she's great. Everybody knows what she's doing for the game, which is tremendous. She's definitely one of a kind, But at the same time, when things don't go her way one time, we can't make it seem like it's the end of the world. She's been treated on fair when so many players has been treating a fair number of times. So it's just one incident, like coach said, just like you said, she'll be on the team a number of times. But I don't think it's
just a big deal. I mean, those girls on this on that team deserve to be on their team. They've been carrying the WNBA for years and they and they and they also have experience on this team. So uh kudos to everybody that made it and Kingdom at that time, I think.
You said a perfect faeld. I mean, she knows her day is coming, you know what I mean. So I think that's important as the media contrives to pick and choose and spend and throw shit out there. But one thing, and I love how you said, I wish it would come down. Let's just focus on the actual game, you know what I mean.
The highlights and Asia's numbers, and.
She tired or tired or broke down or tarosite, if I'm not mistaken, thirteenth straight uh point games.
What she's been able to do.
But you know, my whole thing with this is, you know, whether people want to give the credit, whoever wants to get the credit go from Don Staley to this, this, this newer class. I'll just allowed that shit to be the vehicle to put eyes on what this game really is. You know what I mean, Let's forget who brought it. Let's just re met me. Now we're seeing what it is and continue to grow that and with that needs to leads to my next question. Where do you guys
see this league in the next ten years? I know they've got a big collecting environment agreement coming up either this summer or the next summer. I'm not positive, but I know that's going to change with the new Herd. There's a big sponsor coming on board and new TV money. Where do you guys see this game at in the next ten years?
Well, Phil, I'll just say this, I'll see the game feel and mat y'all tell me if I'm wrong for saying this, but I just and ten years from now, I want to see the game the WNBA being controlled.
Ran and run by women. I want them to have their own game.
We've had our own game, so for so long, and we made it so hard for women to be a part of our game in so many different aspects. You see, we just getting women CEOs to run teams stuff like that. Let them have their own league, let them referee, let them coach, let them do everything and have their own league. Yeah, they can get assistance from guys because you know, we
know a lot about basketball as well. But I think for the most part, I think it should be a women dripping, women Made League, and I think they deserve that.
Phil Man, it's coming ten years. I wouldn't even say ten years. I'm the next five years. The league is gonna have massive growth from the incomes to now they've they've they've switched over, and now the ladies are being able to Some of them are, you know, traveling private, which is a huge thing for them, right not having to walk through airports at five o'clock in the morning, being able to have their own chartter flights. You know,
there's stepping stones that they're taking. I think the more visibility to get, the more the TV contracts are there. In five years time, man, I'm hoping to see that the w is doubling the contracts of these ladies, the coaches, anybody that's involved with the w Everybody experienced massive growth. I think in five years time, man, I think it's just gonna be you're gonna see another right, You're gonna see more what you're seeing this year sellout arenas right now,
they're having to move venues. I think they moved the Caitlyn Cark game from a forty two hundred seat venue to the to the major venue is over twenty thousand people and they sold out. You're gonna see more of.
That, and I just think they not to cut you off. Feel they said they sold When they went up to the new venue, sixteen thousand tickets were sold in thirty minutes.
I mean, you see what I'm saying Like that, That's where it's headed the game. The game is only going to continue to grow for them on a major scale, and everybody's gonna be winners from it.
Yeah, I know, Phil, We got to get you out of here soon. One more big question we wanted to ask. Obviously, the NBA International takeover is here, and you know the number of consecutive international MVPs the game is obviously growing. I think this is David Stern's vision the whole time was to grow to a global game. The global game is here. Is there as someone who trains kids to pros?
Is there anything you can put your finger on? That is why there's been such an influce and talent and kind of almost and this is not a disrespectful which is what it is. Yeah, water water down on the on the American side.
Look, man, a lot of people I played. I played eight years in Europe my career career. But people don't understand their system of youth basketball is totally different. So you look at guys like Luca, you look at guys like Jokics, the Tony Parker's even Wimby, right, you take just you can go back and look at the history of guys from Europe that have come into the States. These guys are playing pro basketball when they're sixteen seventeen years old, right, So most of our sixteen seventeen year
olds is still in high school. Their system of.
A freshman too, by the way, six yeah, seventeen year old freshman, which is fucking yeah, go ahead, that's another.
So their system, right, what they do the club teams, the youth team, every pro team, they have junior teams, and then those junior teams. These kids are already learning how to one be a pro what's the schedule like? They're learning how to be in a sense of just learning how to play pro basketball. So their advancement in the team concept. They may not be better individual players, so to speak with, they may not be as athletic or skilled as some of the kids that we have here,
but they know how to play the game. There's a difference. There is a huge difference in terms of what we're doing in the AAU culture. Not every AAU program is bad, but if the AAU culture would take more more of a stance of how do we develop our players one not only individually, but how do we develop them and understand how to play basketball off the ball, on the ball, pick and roll, reads, the passing game. You know, I just went to Italy to watch the Adidas Adidas Real
camp for all the top prospects. You could tell the difference between the European teams. The you that ball was popping, popping, the ball did not move. We had the you know, young American teams, very talented, but their style of play was different. Everything was you know, let me break my man down. Can I create on my own. There is a time and a place for that. You got to have it. But understanding just how to play the game. So this is why you see a lot of European
kids when they come into the league. Yes, again they may not be as individually talented as are players here, but they understand how to play. You can plug them into a system, most of them, and they don't fit. They don't They're not out of place. They play with pace, they play with speed, they make quick decisions right, all of these things which are really important to the game. That's the difference. We still have so much talent here
in this country. But I always tell people because I do spend a lot of time with youth, the youth coaches in this country are the most important coaches in the world. Why because they set the foundation of what they're teaching these young athletes right. How they teach them that's so important, man. And then they either have the ability to make them play, making want to continue to play, or they make them want to quit. So the youth
coaches have a huge responsibility. If you want to be a youth coach, you better learn the game, learn how to teach, not just learn how to teach your athletes how to drive, but learn how to teach them how to play within a system. That's what you're seeing, man, and that's why these guys are coming into into the NBA and they're just a little bit more polished on the whole scheme of the game, right, That's what's happening, man.
Yep, Phil, before we get you out of here, Swiss cultures speak to what you're trying to do in the content space and where that idea came about.
Man.
As Swiss coaches, Man, I want to say, I kind of been with Swiss coachures since their very beginning, you know, I did. I've known Swiss coaches going back to two thousand and fourteen when they were you know, a really small online presence. I met Jordan and you know, he invited them to the gym and now to see, man, what they've done and grown into is phenomenal.
You know.
Look, I'm not really a guy that's really trying to beat into the content space, but you know, I do have an online presence, you know from my Instagram and some of the things I do with my app. I'm always all about just sharing the knowledge that I have.
Matt stack.
I think a lot of people people look at me as just quote unquote player development coach man, but I've been I've been doing head coach stuff in my role for the last four or five years, so my knowledge of the game goes way beyond player development. So some of the stuff I just love to watch. Right I'm free.
This is the first time I've been this free in my career, so being able to sit down and watch some of the games that are going on, and I get enjoyment out of breaking down certain actions, being able to see certain things, and then maybe just help people understand some of the other nuances of the game, what
goes on within the game. So some of these things that I'm doing with Swiss coaches really just to kind of share share missing piece of knowledge, help people have more in depth understanding of what's really going on with players are looking at, what are they seeing, how are they setting up their movements? You know, just to kind of give people a little bit more more insight on what the game is doing from a higher level.
Well, I love it.
I love it. Phil.
Thank you for continuing to share your knowledge and bless us with your knowledge because there is a lot over there you know, obviously a free agent right now, so best of luck. I know you'll land on your feet. You're one of the brightest minds in this game, so definitely looking forward to seeing where you land. Man, so appreciate it. Thank you for your time, and we will talk soon.
Hey, Phil, I appreciate you. Bro.
My son just graduated high school, so I'm gonna get him my de.
Man, he need that blessing.
Come on, man, we're here. We're here. Man. I appreciate what you guys are doing.
Man, I appreciate you. Peel. You ain't never told me though, so you my guy.
All right, Well, that's a wrap unplugged. You can catch us on all the Smoke Productions YouTube and the DraftKings Network. We'll see y'all next week.