Mmmm, Welcome back all the smoke International. We're over the waters out here in beautiful Croatia. Man, we have a really special guest today. And forgive me if I butcher your name. I've been practicing for the last thirty minutes. But Misko Rasinandovich, that was close one of the most respectful and influential agents in the world, coming to you obviously from the beautiful Sunset Media Festival out here in Croatia.
Let's let's let's just jump right into it. You have three players in the NBA finals right now.
One is a two time MVP, Nikola Jokic.
You were someone who discovered him, So tell us about how you just covered him and talk a little bit about him as a person. We obviously get to see the amazing basketball player, but he's some of that's starting to come out of a shell and talk a little bit more. But we haven't really heard him talk too much. So tell us how you discovered him and who he is.
He is a person.
Yeah, I mean, this is pretty unique story because generally all the players from NBA or even uro League, you know, they're discovered by team of scouts who are going all over the countries and see the kids eight years or ten years old and start following them. Somehow, nobody really paid attention to this guy. What is really funny is I have Basket is my company. We have very big scouting department and very good especially in territory of Serbia,
because this territory is not big one. Somehow they also didn't find him and they didn't notice him.
What did really happen?
Because I'm old fashioned guy, I like to read newspapers, not to go to web portals. So every Sunday there is Serbian news papers with the results from all over the country and all over all leaks. So I was reading newspaper and saw that one guy in the in the competition Surbian under eighteen what is really low? Had twenty nine points and if I'm not wrong, twenty six rebounds?
Whoa not more than that?
Next week, next Sunday, I was reading newspaper again and he said, hey, let me check another under the guy. Then I saw thirty points twenty seven bounds.
By did you say fifty seven?
Thirty points twenty seveny bounds? Okay, this is kids basketball, but still impresses. So I said, it's not my business it's business of my scouting department, but I'm curious.
Let me check this guy. So I called my.
Scout and asked him about him, and it's was silence. He didn't know him. What for me was surprise of the year. Having in mind that he knows all the kids ten years old. So I said, like, hey, look, it's obvious that his center with twenty six rebounds. Make one call and check, is this guy makee grab rebounds because he's older, stronger and beat kids or he's versatile. He called me back in three minutes said no, no, no,
he's not strong. He's very versatile, even little overweight, sneaky, but it's like talenty.
I'm the guy.
Who believe in system, you know, in projections, in analysis. And I don't know why I told him I want to sign this guy. So go to his place. But he's like fifty miles from Belgrade. Find the family and talk with them. He went there, you know, and make conversations with the family. Family is great, one very stable, old fashioned Sian family. They really take care about kid well. And they were like a very happy that agency of that size was interested in kid, who, by the way,
never come to the practice of the seniors team. You know, they really didn't recognize and they accepted to join the agency, but they wanted to see me.
Two days later they came, We talked.
It was very good chemistry, especially his older brother Struck.
And he was there.
He was really important and that moment for this decision and many other decisions in Serbia who really helped him to become what he is, especially in the beginning and when it was really hard. So Nicola joined the agency. What is really funny that way at that time, Okay, this is the first and last player in the twenty seven years old history of the agency that we signed him without anybody seeing him. And now we are talking
about scouting, about videos, about analysis. You know, this is so I can say that somebody told me that it worked out. Make this call.
Yeah, he took a shot in the darkening work.
Yes, so two times mba MVP, heavy discussion, but he possibly one his third MVP this past year. But it went to Joel Embiid talked to us about just how much obviously that meant to him, but also meant to you. I mean, like you said, you discovered this kid when no one was really checking for him. He's arguably the best player in the world right now. When he accomplished a two times NBA MVP, what does that mean to you?
I mean really, I mean it's for you that you are in the United States and you are I mean somehow us that players are getting MVP, and I mean from Serbia and nobody ever, especially from such a small team. He grew up in Mega, and especially with this beginning of the career.
It sounds like science fiction, you know.
So of course, I mean mixed of the feelings, very proud, very happy everything. But generally I'm not kind of the person excited one, you know, so whatever comes next day, I forget. Nicole is very similar. He really believe that when he say I don't care really be the third one. They believe that this is theater and when he goes home that he's so nervous, but it's not true. Really doesn't he really didn't pay attention. Now there is something
that he really pays attention. And then we're talking in the moment when Denver leads one zero one one all against Miami. So I mean three more games, three more games, three more games only I.
Mean his talent is so special.
I mean He's breaking records left and right with these triple doubles. Last night another triple double, twenty seven, fourteen and ten. The whole first half he got his whole entire team involved, and in the second half he stepped up and did some scoring.
How do you like him and Murray's duo?
Absolutely great.
But I can tell you for the years I was so nervous to him.
Like, come on, shoot, he doesn't shoot first quodcast, first guy at the end of the day, like last night, his first shoot, your MVP, first shot after twelve minutes, and at the end of the game you're twenty.
Seven, your top scorer.
I mean, he's really unique and never see that kind of the patience and will to help to others for the win, you know. And on the beginning, like three or four years, you know, was like so many times one rebound to triple double, one assist. You know, I got like mad and crazy. I told him he was laughing all the time, you know, because I thought him, Okay, make one more.
He really, really, really really didn't care for this.
And obviously now when Mary's back in the big time, they play together, they understand each other, and I believe that the reason why they didn't do anything last year and a half is his injury. Now, when he's back in the full shape, I believe they're really probably the best doll. I mean maybe some players are individually better, but as a team, as a couple, as the chemistry, I believe the absolutely great. You saw some coorganization.
When they joke, you know, it's really yeah.
I mean I think it's rare to see players play off each other that way. But you know they can both be great without stepping on each other's toes. You know that they both can handle the ball, they both can set the screens, they both run the dha.
I mean, it's amazing what they do.
I stayed up last night and watched the game. Do you normally I mean, obviously because it's the finals, that might be a little difference. How do you normally catch games? You normally catch the highlights the next day? Do you say up for some games because it's such a crazy time.
I believe I found perfect way. So really, I mean, if I watched three o'clock am and gaming is finished at six, I'm not focused. You know, I'm slippy. So when I wake up in the morning, I don't touch my phone because if I touch my phone and say something about game will go out. So I don't touch my phone. I take my IPD and B application and then that is like high scores. So I don't know
anything what this happens. So I watched the game. Also, it's really good for me because no timeout, no commercials, don't half time money, right, I have to I have to admit that when Joker goes out, I do fast forward, you know.
And then you know it take me it take me.
Fifty five Last night was fifty seven minutes. So it's great. And when I come to real life and take my phone did ahole other world, I am like somebody who watched the game and all everything. Yeah, So I mean I believe that after this, you know a lot of people are going to do this.
Who are you as a player?
I mean I was really talented, but I didn't make it, you know, And to be honest with you, I never understood why because I was a guy who was hard working and everything somehow didn't work. But as the type, I was not a guy who people like to play with because I was shooting too much, passing less. So I don't know, maybe more offensive and non athletic Mandy, Let's say in in few words.
Did you idolize somebody going up?
Not really? My idol was Drusian Petric, you know, and even I was kid when he when he's just two years older than me. But when he was sixteen, he was already very important and I really loved the way how he played.
A chance to meet him.
No, he died, he died. But I play all my life in number four, my email address, all the social media, I have number four.
My daughter played the number four.
We are really I cannot say obsessed, but number four is really important in our lives exclusively because because of him. And you know, I was like fighting with my friends, who is the best European player in the history. You know, everybody said jocker, I said Russian, but like maybe maybe last year after second MVP, I had to accept.
I had to accept the heat.
In towns a way to become one of the best basketball at the death store.
You know, like best stories in the world, without any plan.
You know.
I finished law university and very low and started to work as attorney at law and was really.
Good criminal law.
So I have three or four times in young age that I defender murders and everybody really, including me, I saw that it's really a good career. And in Serbia, you know, at that time, especially ninies, was a lot of crimes, you know, and this role, the of the attorney was really important. Then all of a sudden, in nineteen ninety five, people in Serbia started to get paid
and players for the first time need legal protection. They didn't know where to go, but they knew me because even at that time I played some Division four for the fun. By the way, all of them believe that something is wrong with me, you know, because everybody played basketball, run for the girl nightlife school, nobody and I was only one who put also a nice career in university, you know. So they came to me with it full
of compidence, and I started to prepare the contracts. And let's say, legal protection was really difficult because there was no contract. I had to make everything name closes. You know, even today they do the copy paste that contract, and it was like maybe two years only legal protection. After two years, I saw the team signing players do horrible mistakes.
I said like, okay, let's give them advice. They respect me, so I started to be agent two years later, I said, like, I should be international, so let's try to sell some players international. My range was equal to range of my car because there is no mobile at that time. So okay, there are closest country where Romania, Hungary, Macedonia, very low level of basketball in the car going there, talking with the teams and went very easy. So after three four years I become small international agents.
You know.
Then one summer Polish team started to pay big money. Again my car very far away. I stayed seventeen days. I signed trust me seventeen players and after that I said, like, you know, I'm going out of the of the criminal law. I will be I will be a one hundred percent basketball basketball agents. But from the beginning, you know, it was really easy. Today, if I want to start that pha, it's not possible. Even sixteen years old kid, you know they have the agents.
I hate this.
But now agents approached fourteen years old kid, you know this is ridiculous. At that time, we had no Serbian agents. Couple of guys work for big American agency like s A Fixed Fame, that kind of stuff, but they were interested only in cream cream de la Cream. Eighty percent of the players have no agent. They don't know what
is agent. So I came with the tie lawyer design, and all of a sudden, in two years, I had one hundred players, of course low level, but getting low level players you got experience, you got practice, and you get the chance to show to the people that you're capable. And then I was practically waiting seven years for big time transfer. In two thousand and two, I did it. After that everything changed. And after that, you know, big players, big coaches, everybody started to i mean joined the agency.
And you know, after that was easy. Rest is history. We put into work. How they bail basketball come together the basket. Yeah, the it's me. I mean, like you know, we just have to give the name, some name to the to the company. But Bell is the first part of Belgrade, my city basket.
Of course I.
Gave that kind of the name. And our structure is completely different than a structure of American agency because you know, all those agencies my partner Excel leading one and others, plenty of the people working, you know, marketing department, legal department, you know, and here we did difference. It's me and people who helped me, you know, and we really don't touch marketing. Don't touch other stuff. You know, let's do other people who are specialists for this. So I believe
I'm a specialists in basketball. I love basketball. I can't watch I don't know ten games per day, and we have focused, We have focused on it, and generally players more and more they like this approach, so you know they want to have person in front of them instead of company, because you know it happened to some American players. Let's say you are the agent, we've worked two three, then you move and you become a a general manager.
Of NBA team.
But it's very common now and you stay with this agency, you don't know anybody, and for agents you have to have personal touch.
Here is different.
They have this personal touch with me, and I believe that was one of the key of the success on European ground for our agency, because I don't know, do you follow in EuroLeague? What is like the biggest level. I have more players than second and third together.
Yeah, yeah, you're number one sixty plus.
Yes, yes, that's the reason because that kind of the structure. Also for social media, you know, I have more than anybody in the world.
Of course, I'm not.
As strong as American agency. But American agency, you know, they put on social media, nice visual, they put something that is like one department here, No, it's me, you know, so they can't feel my personal stories about the players. Sometimes they can feel excitement sometimes the time said, and people really prefer this, I said in Europe.
I don't know how it works in the United States.
It was definitely working for you to be number one the past six years. And like you said, you have more than the two and three combined, which is insane.
So that's great work.
Especially the two and three a European part of big time American agencies.
That's tough.
I'm going to name a few guys here.
You've crossed past with current players and retired players. Darren Williams, you helped him transfer internationally during the lockout in twenty eleven.
Can you speak to that?
But this is very crazy story.
At that time, I didn't follow basketball NBA basketball really not. I have no players games at three o'clock in the morning, I cannot. So look out Bespector's coach Jack in Atham and who in meantime one a couple of times Sure League and become a coach of the of the Year and Neally He called me and said, hey, we have big budget. We want to use this opportunity to sign two months somebody, a really big time from NBA said okay, positions,
he said one. I know that my partner, Jeff sports, they have Jason Kidd, so he said Jason Kitt.
Coach was excited.
Great. I called Jeff, okay, give him. He said no, he's not interested. He's alder interested. But take their own Williams. I have to say, I have never heard for their own Williams. So I picked the phone. You closed the phone and said like, hey, I'm asking him for Lamborghini.
He's offering me.
I don't know formed, but okay, let's check this guy. Then I take a look on his profile. Wow points per game, All Star, All Star, Allstar.
I called coach.
He said, hey, Jason Kid, no, but I have another one. Reaction was not so good, but three minutes later his reaction was copy paste of my reactions. So I was like, let's bring him. So we brought the guy. We signed and it was like two months for big money, right, yes, and you know I met him in Istanbul. Great guy and he you know, even he stayed only two months. He leaves this team too too much and grow up everything that at the end of the day, they won
Turkish Championship. But nobody ever expected expected before the before the season, and then this story has continuation work really well for one month and a half. Then coach told me, hey, we have again money, you bring me a big guy.
I said immediately Lamar Rodom.
He said done, so I called them everything fine, we will preparing the contract. Lamar signed the contract and supposed to fly in Todays and then they finished Lookout, so this deal never happened. I was the most ubsept in the world because when we're doing this, they were already preparing this show with the Kim Kardashian in Istanbula. I said, okay, if you want this transfer, I was joking, I have to be part of it. They said, no problem, you
would be special guests, and I was like, wow. You know after that when they come back and Serbia, you know, I'm big time everybody, so you know I was. I was very very unhappy because it miss only three four days.
Yeah, I'm glad you didn't get in because I was on the team with them on the Lakers, and we definitely needed a last season.
Boban.
Boban is an international star from all kinds of commercials. Obviously not the most talented of the bunch, but someone I heard you're very proud of.
Yes, I mean, Nikola is best player in the world. I'm very proud. For many others, I'm very proud. But for nobody I'm proud is much. I'm proud for Bobben because it's so difficult to explain what he was in seventeen, born in very small city in eastern Serbia. He was too tall, you know, people joking with him, he's so bad knees, and he managed to beat everything and to become NBA player. This is good, but this is not
the great greatest. The greatest is that he ended up fighting with Keanu Riffs in john Vic three you know so, I mean, playing basketball in his small team in Serbia and become MVP is very long again, but being there and fighting with Keanu Rieves, it's three times bigger.
You know.
So, Bobby Maranovitch, who has bright future in Hollywood, absolutely, I mean, you know, and especially he's such a good guy. He has such a good soul, you know. I mean, I will give you just one example.
He was already star but had no minutes.
And he came to Mega, what is like a very low level at that time, and it was twelve players eighteen years old and him like his three levels up before. The first game was scrimmage game. It was thirteen players, so Mega played the thirteen players, but he had twelve jersey.
You know you have.
Right only one time to guess who come to the court without jersey. It was Bob and who is like father to all twelve. He was so polite, he let them, let them, let them take the jerseys. And there are stories. There is also you know, I'm very funny. He came to this low level and second game we play against guy who is sixty six position five.
He's so Bobby.
But Bobby all night long is shooting fade away. You know, we lost the game. Bobby was horrible after the game. He told him, look, this is the distance and difference is twenty million.
He said, what do you say?
He said, when you get the ball, if you go to the guy he hit you, it's small pain. But you say it's fine, it's fine, and you go to the rim and you should fade away the difference. At the end of career will be twenty million, and I was wrong, would be more and more, Yeah, it would be more.
Yeah, You've been such a huge part of European league growth. There's around or sixty players current European players in the NBA today. Where do you see this going in the next five to ten years.
I mean it's very difficult to say European basketball is not going in a good direction. I mean, young players don't get a chance to play and all, so that going the moving girly to NBA then be distribed two way. Contract less and less players are coming to Europe and euro League becomes really league without the stars, and it's not good for my main business because my business is
euro League. Euro League was the most exciting ever this year, but not because people were great, just great teams going down middle teams to stay and then it's like like big competition. So I really worry for for European basketball. For NBA, don't worry it. All everything goes right direction.
We grew up playing I played football, baseball, basketball growing up and played fourteen years in the NBA. What is your thought on younger players being so groomed for just one sport? You with that do you think they should play multiple sports that help them with the collective of being a basketball player.
I am really against with this situation what we have now. The parents really push kids from eight years to go in the middle in the morning, just a little bit stretching in the evening practice. You know. The guys get physically and mentally bored before they started to play. So I'm really against it, and I would like to let
them enjoy childhood will play basketball. Personally, I believe that in the early age the best would be some judo or something like this, so you get stability, you put some muscles.
Soccer is also very good, and.
Then later eleven twelve you start slowly with Basketballkay Nikola Yokich is maybe one of great examples, but not only him, Nikola Jovich, you know, in fourteen or fifteen he played water polo, never played basketball, you know, and Nikola didn't play serious until eighteen, and many and many others.
And I saw so many huge talents in let's say.
Twelve thirteen, where everybody will be news in your kids and then in a absolutely burn yes, yes, so unfortunately, I mean I believe the agents we have part in it, you know, but also parents you know, who are in basketball really more and more remind me for the Latin American parents who see the kids seven years old soccer player and that's that's the only way for them to live good. And then it's such a big pressure in basketball. Started to go this way. I'm really really against you.
I feel like making it a job too early, you know, Like you said, I think the main thing is to like coach my kids. They're fourteen, but mine never pushed them to do anything. We wanted them to play everything and find your passion. Now they're fourteen and they love it and they work out, but they played.
All kinds of different sports growing up. To kind of.
Fine, that's the best best way. If I have sons that they age, I will go this way, you know, to put pressure, you know, far away as long as possible, because if they are professional athletes, they will have enough pressure in their life.
You know.
We recently had Isaiah Thomas on our show and he said that the next five years the top players will be on the national players like Luke and Jannis. What is your take on the national players compared to NBA players today.
You know, honestly, you know, I'm a big fan of European basketball, and I really enjoy this moment.
You know, I enjoyed the moment that.
Nicola your kitchen, Luka Doncica probably in best five players in the United States. First, they're coming from this region. That's very important for me. But second, what is maybe the most important for European basketball. They show to everybody here that is possible to become NBA MVP, an NBA
All Star player without great physical abilities. Because when you had ten years old kid and you watch Lebron James or Janni's A the Kutumbo, you cannot identify yourself because you said, like, oh, this guy jumped three meters running hundred meters seven. I cannot do this because this is not my nature. Then you watch Nikolajokich or Don't Chich or if you're lucky to see Nikola Jokichs photos when he was fourteen fifteen, sixteen, and you say, why not?
You know, there is a way.
Probably I am not going to make that, but I have at least hope and reason to practice every day to try.
And so that's that.
Many times in interviews I underline that your kis is very important in general for European basketball for the kids, because believe me, five years ago also coaches you come fourteen years old, I feel a little bit fatter this
they put you on the side, practice on another basket. Now, no, everybody's more careful because he said, who knows, maybe this one has that kind of the talent passes and then see, so it changed a lot, and I'm very happy that in some let's say second way, I I was, I was part of this, this this change because you know, I mean, people more and more enjoy in this way. How Nicola your kitchen also don't play the play the game?
Do you have any up and coming players coming from out this way?
Now?
I mean there is there is one guy for these draft.
He is very special.
He's two metter eighteen to metron eighteen Croatian guy who played Montenegro, who is really very mobile, shooting three points, blacks everything. But they still didn't realize, you know, because didn't have a lot of minutes, you know when you are young and two twenty some injuries. But now everything came together and for instance, they play playoff game against partisan what is very strong Eurolygue team. The guy for
twenty minutes had like I don't know. Twenty three twelve, this guy is going to be a great size and style of the game. Remainds on the pick number one from France. Wemb but okay, not that good, but for sure is going to make a very good career. And also there are really plenty of kids, especially in Mega that I believe are going to make nb A drafting to have NBA career, but general in the past, whomever I mentioned in the interviews, he didn't make it, so I decided I don't.
I don't put the names, you know.
For the for the for the for the bad luck.
Yeah, what do you think about Wemby?
I mean, it's like really amazing.
What to say, you know, I mean I cannot say that I watched him many times, but this is what I watched, This mobility with his size, shooting and everything, you know, looks like that he's going to be something something special. Okay, they put two days ago some that he in defense he was horrible against one undrafted loten. I believe game, but I'm still still is some really special talent.
Do you see the NBA expanding to Europe any times?
So no, no, I mean, like honestly, this is a big time European wish. But this is not realistic because you know, NBA is really different level and there is not any reason for them to come. They were talking like we will be one conference or something. You know, it's far away. It's really it's far away.
Who are you outside of work?
I mean, first, I really spent a lot of free time watching basketball, not because they have to, you know, I love it. For instance, last weekend was Serbian under for you said one hundred and fourteen championship. You know, I watched in two days, five games. When he entered the gym, everybody's like, what's going on? How is it possible that, okay, agent of big time NBA players is coming to watch the kids, you know, And I'm trying to be highened because when the kids see me, trust me,
they they got like to over react. But I didn't come to watch because okay, now I will go to a particular kid. You know, I came to watch because we have this team mega, but his support and I like to see, you know how the kids on fourteen maybe to give some remarks to the coaches. I really enjoy watching watching basketball. Besides this, you know, traveling a lot restaurants, you know. I mean, I'm now fifty seven, so maybe two years ago I officially retired from nightclubs.
So don't go to cinema door read books, you know, you know, but I like to see city the friendsic cav and chat mainly again about basketball.
So is there anything you're working on now outside of basketball?
No, just basketball, just basket.
You know, in Europe is much more popular to be agent in soccer, and there are a hundred times people come to me like, Okay, you know you are so good, you really much bigger money. But you know, if I'm soccer agent, I have to go towards soccer games. So better know.
All right, we appreciate it. We're coming to the end of the interview right now. So right now we're gonna do quick hitters. Just the first thing to come to mind. Let us know, in your opinion the top five most impactful European players of all time.
Novitzki, your teach, Drazan.
Stockwitch one more, one more, Luca, recall.
First thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do at night.
The same checking the phone phone.
If you can rewatch any game in NBA history, and say courtside at it. Which one would it be?
I mean, you know, it's not easy to answer because until two thousand and ten, I didn't watch even one.
You know, I'm almost but.
Yeah, I know, I know this is the game I didn't watch.
I just heard for this one.
So it was the game New Jersey Nets against Houston Rockets when it was career high for Russian Petro which it's forty three points or something ladies. And you know her mother gave me the shoes from that game.
Oh really, yeah, interesting.
Tempers. Negotiator and the NBA.
You know, I don't negotiate NBA.
You know, I mean, like different rule, different time zone. You need, really if you want to be successful, you really need to do this through American agents. So my partner is Schworts Excel And you know, he's the only one agent in the world that I say this one is maybe better than me for others, not for sure.
And he's doing this, he's doing.
This really really well. And you know, before he talks for my client, we talk, but I practically I never enter into the negotiation about numbers and entering. By the way, if you have a time in NBA, it is so easy you know, everything is according to the books super Max two hundred and sixty seven. That's it. You have space, A little bit here, a little bit here. I would like American agents to come here to negotiate six o'clock in the rafnoon with owner from Ukraine. In seven o'clock
with a owner from Spain, nine from Turkey. Completely different story, different rule. It's like really jungle, real work.
Five dinner guests that are alive that you would like to have one last dinner with for basketball.
Anybody, anybody you.
Know, Drusian petrich Us will be people only for basketball, be on basketball. So there you go, Vasilispanulis, that's for sure. Nicola Pekovich and the fifth one probably I will give the favor. I will give the favorite to Jeff Schwartz to be in the nice com By the way, I don't know do you know this details I mentioned Nicola Pekovich. Okay, he had very good NBA career, not great one. But the funny fact is that when he was eighteen, he was centered.
I was point guard. Oh really, he played the same.
He was really good in making screens and office rebounds strong.
You know.
That's that's that's the year when he learned to play without the ball because both was with me because you're showing them up.
If you could see one person on our show, who would it be? But you have to help us get.
Him on the show, Bobby, Okay, that would be a good one because you know, I mean for the reputation of the show. Okay, Nicola Jokis will be a big time But for the h.
For attraction, for this.
Pot you are going to get from the answer to be fun. But everybody here will be on the floor laughing, Bobby for sure.
Well, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much for coming on.
Thank thank you very much.
That's a wrap all the smoke Croatia.
You can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the iHeart platform Black Effects.
See you guys next week.