Welcome back all the smoke LA audition. We're at the top of LA as you guys can see with the Morning Only Michael Rubin, thank you for having us in your own good to be here. We appreciate it. Understand you literally just got back from Paris. What were you doing out there?
Went out to see Victor, which is one big dude. You're an impressive guy. Was there for two days. We actually visit our LID stores, our PHG stores, our NBA store, spent good time at Victor, went to one of his games, got to be there when he saw a team he was going to play for. Normally we went just assume when someone gets the lot of first lottery pick there, I'm acically going to be there. But I think it's pretty safe to say he's going to resper.
But you also share with me that he's a lot deeper than meets the eye and a lot more mature for his age. Speak to me with you know what you're telling me off camera?
Yeah, I was blown away, like to see a nineteen year old kid who is just so intelligent. He's talking to me about not only what he's going to do on the court and what he believes him from a basketball perspective, but how he goes home and he wants to write books, and he wants to be an artist, and he's designing a power product that we're going to make together, and he's thinking about what he's going to do in trading cards with us. I mean, this was
a deep and thoughtful individual, amazing family, great parents. I'll tell you what, if I were a basketball team and getting him, not only would I be excited about his incredible athletics skills, but I'd be like, this is somebody I want to build my tired business business.
Yea, the visual side, and that's where you excel at. Obviously a ton of business questions, but we kind of want to start, you know where you started as a child, just growing up a fan of the Sixers, and then the dream come true when you were able to actually be a part owner of the Sixers.
Talk to us about that process.
Yeah, Well, for me, I was really like one of the most awful students known to mankind.
Actually people don't believe in that.
It was telling people launch I actually got a seven eighty on my sets combined. It's very hard to get the seven eighty combined comedy that was after six seventy the first thing.
It was the same gang, not even close to him.
Yeah, way, or you didn't get a lover on the success.
I got my name right, that's four hundred.
By the way, that's four hundred for your name r Yeah, yeah, it's something right.
So So look, I was a terrible student.
I was.
As athletic as you guys are. I'm the most unathletic person in the planet Earth. So I was always good at one thing, which was business. So I always loved business. And so I grew up a fan of sports obviously, and so the Sixers of my team as a kid. So getting a chance to you know, kind of just be a part owner and pretty you know, involved in a team that I grew up with being a fan, it was super special, super special.
Obviously, you came in ten years ago. You just gave up your share. Was that last year? Yeah, So talk to us just about what that journey was as a owner. You know, you were right in the mix of the process and getting Joel and having been and having Jimmy come through and now having James come through and Doc and Doc's gone. Now, what was the process like of just being an owner? Obviously a fan, but did it almost not a business, but it is a business at the same time.
Well, it certainly took any fun out of it, that's for sure. But the thing is you just want to win so badly. It look if you look back and say, you know, we were at it I was part of for ten years, we didn't win shit. So you can't look at it and say we've been successful. I mean we've had a perennial you know, kind of second seed playoff team. And to me, if you're not winning championships, you ain't doing shit. And so I look back and say, team hasn't succeeded yet. But I'm still helping him still.
You know, I think everyone knows, you know, Joe's family to me, James family to me, you know, Josh Hires, David Blitzer, you know, really important guys to me, family to me. So I want to do everything I can to help them. But I'll say, you know, over the ten years, I learned a ton. I think it helped me develop. We made lots of mistakes, you got to learn and grow from those mistakes. But most importantly, I
think it's got you know, the organization. We're more motivated than ever to say how to get championships to phildelphiacause.
That's the only reason, you know, on a team like you got to win.
Championships especially, and that's the that's thee that that fan base is very intelligent, but they don't put up bullshit like there.
Philly has great sports fans.
There are not a lot of cities that has just fans that are so passionate Philly fans are. They're amazing fans. You know, they have high expectations and they should and so you know, when we, you know, got bounced in the second round of the playoffs, they were rightfully disappointed.
No, you know, we were win playing for championship.
How happy obviously Joel being family to you to finally see him get over that MVP hump could have obviously won it in previous years, but this was his first year. How important was that to him? But also you as you know, being someone who's close with him.
Look, I think it was a real accomplishment, but at the end of the day, he would trade it for a championship in you know, one second flat, and so you know, I think it's a nice to do, but I'm not you know to me, you know, the only trophy of the matters is the chip for the big So you know, look, obviously I'm super happy for him. I love him. I think he's super happy. But you know, if you ask him, you know, you want a championship trophy.
That's he wanted to you know, he wanted two trophies this year.
Now I hear that kind of the future not necessarily up in the air, but you know, whether we'll see James back, what are your thoughts, you know, being close to the situation, close to him, I'm still kind of helping out. You know, there was words in him and Doctor necessarily get along. Doc is not returning, are they are? Are you guys hopeful that James will be a six er next year?
Look, I think it's a little unfair for me to speak on, you know, james personal situation. What I'd say is, you know, I think James has done everything he can to help Philadelphia win. I think you've seen adapt the way he plays basketball. It's look, you guys could tell me better, and I didn't understand this. I think a lot of people don't get it. Great basketball players don't
a lot of times they don't work together. And so what you got to do is you got to find people who each committed to how do we each adapt our play to win together? I think, yeah, I think you know, both Joe and James made a lot of sacrifices and that makes me actually proud. I've seen like James develop a lot and his willingness and like, no, I'm here to win championships. I'm not. This isn't about you know what what numbers I put up. It's about
how I can help the team to win championships. So I think, you know, obviously I'm hopeful that everything works out, but I just think that I'll talk about just about anything. But I don't like, you know, with with this coming up, this this is one thing I think it would be unfair fore you talk.
On And I just just think, as a fan of James, he's been put in a tough situation because he heard, Okay, well you put up a great, amazing numbers, MVP, but you can't win that way. Now you come to a team and you adapt your game and now you're a twenty and ten point guard, and oh have you lost it?
You know what I mean?
So I think he kind of gets stuck in the middle sometimes like I haven't lost it, but again I'm sacrificing for the betterment of our club.
By the way, You're right, and I agree with you.
And I think you saw what James was capable of in the first game and the fourth game when he had you know, you know James numbers when he was the only superstar in or not the only superstar.
That's that's wrong.
Actually when he was, you know, the number one superstar in Houston. So I think James still has incredible talents and you know he's I'll tell you one thing. It's interesting when you get to really know people know, like how do they just there are a lot of basketball players who don't really.
Give a shit.
Okay, you guys know that that people you see like who just really really wants to win and who like Sworta, wants to win it.
Who doesn't give a shit. I've seen all three.
James is dying to win championships, and he gets a bad rap, you know, like the guy goes to Vegas to decpress for a day and it's like he should like different people decpressed in different ways, and so you know, I'm a you know, I thought haven't been a brother in me real you know fan is and think you know he's you know, he's still incredibly skilled.
What's the day in the day in a life like for you?
I've never worked hard on my life. I've never had more fun doing it normal day for me. I'm just you know, yesterday I woke up, I went, I left Sunday night after a very first time, I actually broke electronics in my house.
During the six Ers.
I refused.
I thought I did the right thing by for the first time in my life not going to the Games of the Garden because the Garden I think that I saw something. It was a magic documentary. Someone's where they said the floor is jinxed. I actually just where they were like monsters or ghosts on the floor. I actually think I sort of believed that. So I said, I'm this gonna be the first year I'm not gonna go. And when we won the first game there, I was
like super excited. When we won game five there, I'm like, I'm definitely not going to game seven. Obviously it wasn't me because we did not have a very good game, but I I Sunday afternoon, I threw the remote as hard as I could into the TV. Some things kind of broke and then my three year old Saidaddy, why did you throw the remote? And h I tried to talk myself out of that didn't so well. I was not very happy with what was on TV right now.
But that's not what you should do. But anyway, I got on a plane, went to Paris, had two great days of meetings there, and then flew right back to LA And that's like kind of normal for me. I mean I'm always grinding. Like, look, I got the greatest job of the waters and plast I get to work with, you know, the best athletes in the planet, the best you know, we're around culture. I get to you know, learn and grow every day. I mean I just got done you guys. You know, two hours ago, we just
had an incredible lunch. I just had the four top quarterbacks that were drafted this year. So we had Bryce Young, CJ Anthony, and Richard and Real Levis together with Tom Brady, you know, came all the way out to spend time with them at Travis Scott talking about how to build your business off the field. And it's so fun for me to just like listen to the conversation, learn from the conversation.
I mean by the way you listen to each.
Everyone knows about Tommy because I mean everything you think about him and more is true about just how smart and focused and how he just outworked everybody. But then people don't know about Trive. People think of Travis as an artist and a rapper. I think think about him as a business business guy. Yeah, he's a huge business guy. Like we're always learning from each other. So you know, for me, you know, that's like a day in my life with just being around really smart people learning from
each other, having fun. But I'm doing it, you know, I mean, I slept four hours yesterday. I'm like my throatheart's right now because I haven't slept for a.
Couple of days.
And it's just like that's just who I'm but I love it. It's like I'm lucky to do it.
You said something interesting, though, because you said you had all the young quarterbacks here and and some but you said to learn from them, And I think that's something as you know, as we get older, sometimes we kind of have our ways, and especially with the jobs situation in particular, like learning this younger generation's point of view I feel like it's so important, and I feel like sometimes when we get older, we could disconnect, and I have teenage boys that kind of keep me in the loop.
But elaborate on that.
Yeah, well, first of all, being that I've said that I got a seven eighty combined on my SAT.
He's the second time, six seventy the first time.
I By the way, I don't believe that you got four hundred because four hundreds name only, so you definitely if you just close your eyes and did multiple.
Choice, you probably would have beat you.
Pretty something.
We gotta go back and check SATs score, SAT score some My money is on that you were the better performer of the SATs. But look, I love having diversity of backgrounds around me. So for me, that's the way I learned. Like I'm a sponge, I'm always asking questions, I'm always learning from people, and it's funny if you just if you listen to this conversations, like everyone's asking each other's questions, and that is hell Like my company.
I've been at Fanatics for twelve years. But like I just watched the movie air this weekend, which by the way, was pretty inspirational for me to watch that movie, and I'm like, Okay, Phil's in his eighties now I'm fifty. Like, think what I could do with fanatics over the next thirty five years if you look at like kind of where Nike is.
So to me, having young.
People around they it's it's great because it's it's I can learn from them, they can learn from us.
And that's exactly what happens. And it was amazing just to watch.
And obviously, look, nothing's better than having Tom Brady sit with the four top quarter backs in this year's draft and give them so many great lessons. And these guys were just sitting there like, you know, mouths open, and it was kind of amazing, you know, just to listen to the conversation. But then you know Tom's picking things up and Travis picking things up, and we're kind of all learning from each other. And that's you know, that's what you know. I think that's the type of personality
everybody was at the table. People just want to keep growing, and you know, we're never satisfied by We talked about that, like you know, Tom, you know, like everyone's been telling we haven't done shit yet. Like I don't feel like I've done shit yet. I don't think Tom feels that he's done shit yet. He's not sitting here, you know, celebrating the seven Super Bowls. He's wanting He's saying, like, you know what am I doing next?
Next? Yeah? Right?
Yeah, especially if you can walk straight from football the three hundred million in box.
Uh.
Any hobbies? Working, that's it. I love it.
But you know, to me, like, listen, is this I mean, is this work or is this fun?
I'm having a great time with you guys. You know, it's having this lunch. I just had workers. It fun, like I'm you know, I'm twenty four to seven. Actually, my team was just talking to me yesterday about I'm doing a day on a show coming up later this fall on a TV show, and they were they want to shoot some stuff at my house next week, and they were trying to get into the persons of like, but I want this to be authentic, like you know, like like my life is basically work, Like I'm always
I'm hustling, I'm grinding. It's what I but it's what I love to do. And I don't I'm mountain. I don't look at his work. So one of my hobbies, I mean, I love sports, But I don't know when I when I go, I don't.
I don't see a game through the lens of fun.
I see it get By the way, the most enjoyable basketball game I've been to in the last ten years was Victor's game two nights ago. That was peaceful. I just want to root for him to do well, and by the way, they happened to win. It was the last game of the season. But like you know, I'm always rooting for the players. We're behind the teams. I'm behind the outcomes that are best for business. So, I mean, sports has worked for me, but it's fun.
It's fun work.
Legendary potter as you have, How did how did start? I mean, we have some groupies on our staff that's been talking about your parties for the last couple of days.
That's dying again to your party.
Well you know what I've actually figured out, Like, if this fanatic thing doesn't work out, I think I could be a good.
Party kidding me, Yeah, Like I think I already got the white suit in the closet, So just let us know what's happening.
Yeah, so you know what it really comes from. I love bringing people from different backgrounds together and that's something I enjoy doing it.
Whether it was this lunch we just.
Talked about, whether it's my super Bowl party, whether it's the White party. For me, it's a great time to It's like I just I enjoy bringing people from different background together. And by the way, I benefit from because I'm always learning from people there. And so that's really where it started. We started with our super Bowl party. And in our super Bowl party, by the way, this
was like this year's super Bowl party. I was like, when I had many the owners of the football teams come up and tell me this is better than the game itself, I thought like, literally, that's what people were saying, right, yeah.
We are.
Look, I think what we like to do is bring the right people together in a room and then great things happen. And you know, there's so many things that I've watched materialize at the different things that we put together that are great for the people in the room.
And I love that. That's great.
Like and by the way, people always giving back to us. It's like it's you know, very mutually beneficial. So so much here let's not telling them about the rule with the phone and the prone left.
I'm saying, so who got to take the who gotta take the cush us for the doorbell?
That's a great question. My push ups skills aren't bad now, I mean I could.
You know, I'm push up pushing for two different things. Forgot who's taking that for the doorbell?
It's a great question. I'm thinking about that.
We'll get back to that.
Yeah, I think it's only I think it's only fair that somebody takes it.
You know, you know everybody's has it been anyone that you were like in all of meeting.
You guys know this answer, This is the real answer when you do what you've done for so long.
Michael Jordans, I mean.
Love, love, lots of respect. Yeah, but.
Really yeah, I mean I'm just I don't know. How about you, guys?
Me and Michael?
Yeah, well I was playing against him and how you how'd you play? I killed them for like them the thirty eight and he came went out the game and grab me from behind.
Good game, motherfucker, good game.
I like that.
I turned around like black Jesus and I almost passed out, but he caught me. I almost passed out. Seriously.
I love that.
Yeah, how about you?
No, I haven't necessarily fannedom. I mean, again, a lot of respect and admiration for people. But you know, luckily, you know, came to LA in ninety eight and kind of been blessed enough to be and meet amazing people. I mean, I take it for granted to get a chance to meet you and I mean a lot of people. But similar to you, just respected and enjoy meeting different types of.
People right back out. You know. I think when I was younger, by the way, I was like if you asked me this twenty years ago, for sure, Like I wasn't used to just being my everyday job. But at this point there's really you meet everybody in the sports entertyer. Everyone comes through eventually, and so it you just kind of get used to it. But it's you know, I'm lucky to do it, by the way, It's more like who do I learn the most from it? I have a lot of really good friends that I learn a
ton from. Like that's kind of the thing that's me excited, Like when you have a great meeting with somebody, like you walk away so much smarter for that meeting.
Like that spunk for me.
Yep, absolutely A born hustler first million was made at sixteen, bought a Porsche before you had a license, started selling vegetable.
Seeds at eight.
I mean you, squeak used ski equipment as a teenager on the.
Seeds at a young age. Too different, different kind yeah.
Years had you locked up? His is just having any make money?
Right?
But by the way, if I grew up in a different way, mine would have me up to that's where keep it, keep it right, said my friends all the time.
I grew up in a very middle class family.
I had two parents that were doctors, you know, you know, like we like we lived a you know, you know. And by the way, the house I grew up inta a cost a half million dollars. It wasn't it.
We were truly in middle class.
But like, if I grew up in a tough environment, I'm sure would have been on drugs and just keep it real, like I was a hustler.
You would have been good at it.
I agree, would have been great.
But where do where'd your mentality come from? Just to want to start making money at an early age?
You know, I think, honestly, you do what you're good at. I always believe you gotta do things that you love so knowing that I was, like god all for shitty student, and knowing that I was the least coordinated person on planet Earth. Like you gravitate to what you're good at, I was good at working. So I just loved it from when I was a young kid, and you know, I was I kind of was born with it, to be honest.
I kind of had that entrepreneurial spirit.
And you know, if you're good at it, you just keep working on your craft. The great thing about business, by the way, different than sports, and you guys look at the way you guys are really meant it yourself now. But the great thing about businesses there's no like, I hope I can be the shop when I'm eighty or ninety and I'm gonna you know, and I think the second I stopped doing I think I die.
Mm, well, I agree, I can understand that.
Yeah, And you feel like there's no where to learn.
Yeah, can you remember a pivotal decision or what if in any early business moves you made?
Well, I made so many dumb ones as a kid, like, I mean from those yeah, but I mean I've like, I mean, I almost went bankrupt, you know, ten different times in my life. You know, I've run out of money multiple times in my younger days. I've you know, I mean I had it when I was sixteen. I went out of money for like the second time I had.
I had a three month string where the sheriff became my homie because she would drop off the lawsuits each day from the one hundred and fifty people that were suing me, from one hundred and fifty ski vendors that I would money to.
It's like I've seen it all, so but.
Those are great experiences, by the way, you know, six months later, I bought another ski shove that went out of business for I bought two hundred thousand dollars inventory for thirteen thousand dollars, barrot it from a neighbor to one thousand dollars a week interest, hustled that inventory out three weeks later, paid all the money I would back, and like became you know, by the time I was twenty one, was doing over one hundred million dollars a
year selling clothes out footwear. So like, to me, every failure always leads to the next success. And I'm like, I was just saying this today, it's kind of crazy, Like I kind of like failing sometimes. I mean, I know that sounds demented, but like those are great learnings. You try to obviously not fuck up the really big things, but like failings, like you just want to fail fast and quick and then learn from that experience and grow. You know, obviously, look, I want to have more wins
than I've loaned. But like, if you're not failing a decent amount in business, you're not trying to well.
To me, it's not I've never looked at losses or lessons, you know, as long as you supply something, you know from what you lost about so.
But I'll go back and analyze the shit out of it, like you know, what did I do wrong? Why did I get wrong? Why did I do this? And then I learn and I'm better as a result of m H.
If you had one piece of advice for young entrepreneurs, what would that be?
So many people are scared to fail. It's stupid, Like go for it, like you just got to go. Like if you sit there wondering like is this gonna work? Should I do this? Like what's gonna happen if doesn't work? Like keep asking what if you're never gonna get anywhere in life, you just got to go for it. Probably I'll I'll throw one more other. You got to get great people around you. Like one of my best skill sets is attracting like the right people to like learn
and from grow from work together. So to me, it's like, you know, my entire strategy is like I'm gonna outwork everybody. I'm gonna have some pretty good common sense and I'm just gonna go for it with great people around me. And I think if you do those few things, I think your odds are pretty good.
Yeah, I think that's a lot of problem athletes.
And I even put myself in the category we don't it's not that we don't know, but we don't put ourselves around the right people till we retired.
And it's for some people's too late.
So we talked a lot about that too.
I agree. I could tell you talent as an athlete only takes you so far. I think the right people around you get you to where you want to go. And if you have the right people around you, they'll help you to achieve it. You want to get the wrong people around you, they'll take you to places you don't want to be. So to me.
That's probably been I suck at a lot of things.
By the way I suck at a lot of things, I mean that I've been pretty good at attract tracking people around me that have been additive to my life.
That's a gift.
It is a gift.
I gotta say it. Something's a gift that keeps giving so to me. So many people get themselves in trouble because they don't have the right people giving them good input. So I actually, I think one of the responsibilities I have at Fanatics, in the position I'm in is to try to, you know, be helpful to others. And by the way, people helping me all the time too. It's not just like in the early days. People helping me today all the time. But I think the right people
around is everything. That is. You get the right people around, it's a completely different outcome than if you have the wrong people around. So same talent, right people versus wrong people completely changes your outcome.
Definite outcome question real quick, And I want to ask you this from a business perspective, because that's what you excel in the job morant situation, not necessarily what he did or what he's done, but as someone who builds brands. Can you speak to why what he's doing is obviously, because I feel like there's so many people that are back and forth. He didn't break laws, didn't do this. Obviously, there's a moral clause when you're in the NBA and someone in his you know, he's the next to kind.
Of carry the flag for the league.
So speak from a business side of why what he's doing is setting them back?
Well, first, like, it's actually great that you ask that question because I've been thinking about that one in the last couple of days, and that what you just said having the right people around versus not having the right people around. Look, my belief is this one's gonna unfortunately hurt him more than he I could too, but I think it'll also help him and that he'll really learn and grow from this. Like, I don't think he's making this mistake a third time now. Sometimes, by the way,
people could just be fundamentally flawed people. I've spent a little time with him, not a lot of time with him. He seems like a good guy, you know. I just it's it goes back to who you pick to have around you. I think he's not going to get out of the situation say fuck, this really hurt, and it's going to teach him that lesson that says, Okay, I got to pick more carefully to people that have around me to help me go to where I want to go, not to where I get.
I keep getting taken too.
So look, Jah is you know, incredibly important to the sport of basketball. He's one of the most talented players in the universe. And you know, my hope and belief not just hope, My belief is that this will end up being a good experience for him. And you know, I hope that he, you know, does get the right people around him. And look, sometimes you see people who just can't get it through their head, and you know,
it's hard to come in. Like think about the way a lot of people grow up who play sports, and then you come into this incredible fame and success and money. I mean, you know, everyone who listeners can say, oh, that's bullshit, Like but he's still a kid, and like, you know, he needs support to help make better decisions.
So, you know, but I believe we'll get there.
I really do the things we were doing in twenty three, we lucky we didn't have social media.
I've done worse.
For sure, I've done worse, way worse, And while I was in the NBA, I made mistakes. I think he'll be fine, But taking the game away from him, that's going to help him. Being suspended thirty games from that broad shit like that with me. That made me sit down and really look at do I really want to play basketball? Do I want to be at home with the rest of my friends. So I think taking the game away from fun lil while will help him. Me think of the blessing he has.
You're one hundred percent right.
By the way, if they didn't give him something that was meaningful, then I think he would think he could keep doing it and he would make the changes.
That he needs to make.
But I say this with huge respect and love for him. I want him, you know, playing as soon as he's ready to play, except when he plays the six Ers. Other than that, when you're playing this, I think the actual right suspension should be he's not suspend other than for all games against the six Ers. I think that would be fair approach.
I think it's logical.
It's like he keeps getting reminded of his actions and then he just you know, when we play you know, a few times a year and then yeah, that's it innovative suspension to you.
It might work back to ownership in the NBA. NBA is seventy percent black. What's your take on only having one owner.
I think you need more diversity, for sure. I think diversity is so important. I mean, if I look at the way we build our company, you know we have we have, you know, a very diverse leadership team.
I think it's important.
Like, look, at the end of the day, we have a business that's dependent on you know, seventy or seventy five percent of our revenues derived from black and brown athletes. We better have a team that's you know, representative of that. So I think we need to keep pushing for more. I think there's not been enough progress made. And you know, one of the problems is I think, you know, I'm excited when I see I have so many friends that are you know, that are doing well now that I think,
you know, could afford to be owners over time. But I think, you know, look, you want majority owners, not just minority owners. But I think it's I think it's coming, but not fast enough, and I think you need more of it. Look if you're in a sports business and the business is built around black and brown athletes, like you have to you know, you have to build your team around that as well.
I have to give you some ownership down.
I have to give you some of your flowers too, because just to be able to see owner be transparent and embrace you know, rappers other athletes, and be able to spend time when them enjoy we like, we've never seen that, Like and I've been on NBA teams, but I've never even met the owner, right, so so to see that is refreshing as the NBA athlete.
So first, thank you. Number two. I'm stunned by how painful so many rich, out of touch people are, Like, I mean it, just keep this real.
I mean, there are a lot of people I know, so many people are so financially well off, and I'm like, I couldn't spend a half an hour with them because I'd want to, like literally just crawl on my own skin. It's so boring. I mean, like for me, like, i feel like I'm lucky to spend time with all the guys I do. And again, I'm always you know, I'm having fun, I'm learning, and I'm growing they're learning, they're growing.
So to me, it's like when I'll tell you a funny story.
Actually, this year, the Sixers asked me to come in and as you guys probably remember, once a year they bring in an outside guest that would speak to the team for the team to learn from. And you know, Darryl and Doc actually said to me, listen, just I want to forewarn you, like, these guys are gonna do their eyes gonna be rolling, they're gonna have no interest, they're gonna they're gonna be asleep. I said, guys, you're so dead wrong. So I had a meeting with The
meeting was schedule for an hour. I I flew in from New York. I had to get back to New York because it was at a practice facility. And after an hour and fifteen minutes, probably had fifty questions. Everyone's writing notes asking questions. So like, to me, you know, that's just the good stuff when you get related with people.
We need more relatable.
Owners in sports. We need younger owners in sports. Like it's very hard to look at somebody who's you know and look, my biggest metro's probably been but he's an anomaly, right, he's an eighty one year old guy who's got the heart of a twenty five years old Right, he's relatable. You go talk to Robert, He'll sit here and talk to you guys all day long. And by he's like me, he doesn't want to talk to the boring rich guy who, like you know, is just like been there and done that.
So but that's just the way I'm built. And again, I don't know how you build a consumer business, Like, how could I actually be successful building fanatics?
And by the way, I got lots of work to do to be.
More successful, But how can I be successful doing it if you know, I wasn't relatable and learning from people around me all day. So you know, to me, I'm like, I'm lucky to like I love walking to the locker rooms talking to people, and you know, it was actually fun the first time ever after I had a good memory of playing the Celtics at the end of the year.
This year before in the regular season, I walked to the Celtics locker room because now I was an owner, I was comfortable and I went in to see Grant Williams and I went to see Jayalen Brown. I went in to see Tatum and like, by the way, Grant's talking to me about business and Jalen Brown's talking to
me about business. They're both on the you know, NBPA executive Committee, And like, I love to see any way these guys and they're asking questions and they want to build their business and they want to keep you know, building with they're budding.
Like to me, that's so exciting.
Well, I think that that's new because we came in during the generation late nineties early two thousands where business and all that wasn't the conversation in the locker room. But like you said, now it's an everyday thing, not everything. It's team meetings in the locker room, shooting the shit investments, and I think that's dope. And obviously that's going to help break the stereotype and stigma and actual facts of
athletes going bro. Before it was something that wasn't spoke of and it wasn't cool to know all this, But now it's like, okay, everyone wants to do it, so it's a little bit cooler.
Every And look, the business guys want to be like the athletes. The robbers want to be like the athlete. Everyone wants to be the other person. But like, that's good because everyone's learning from me. And look, people have platforms, say, social media's changed, for the most part for the good because people have big platforms where they can communicate directly with their fans. Ultimately, you know, they can build businesses
through social media. That's also made people. It's also the shot you talked about that none of us could get away you know what I did, you know, because we're all kind of same age ish, you know, we can't get away with that.
You know, a little younger than you got mad at me when I go ahead them.
No, I'm just trying to be younger. So I'm just trying to go. I think I'm twenty five. So it's just me trying to you.
And went to high school the same time.
Yeah, yeah, it's fucked up, but I'm forty five.
Yeah I'm fifty twenty.
Maybe I'm like I think, Yeah, I agree to dye my hair is working.
The shot I take to be skin of all the ship's working.
Drugs, all the longevity drugs, they're good. Thank god, I'm only fifty now. The longevity drugs. I'm a big believer in all this stuff.
Better.
We're gonna invest hard in longevity drugs.
Now, I'm gonna need I'm gonna need to plug on those one too.
They're good, but I mean there's nothing other than f nows. There's nothing I believe more. And then the weight loss drug, the hair dye and the longevity drugs. And I've never had botox yet, but I'm ready to go.
I'll side of the hair dye.
I'm with you, you know. No, I'm just I like my salt and pepper coming in.
I'm good with that.
Yeah, Yeah, ain't help me.
Yeah, it's over for you.
It's yeah.
I'm glad you took it like I'm glad.
Yeah, I'm not taking on like take like a chap.
You've been a champion in the criminal justice reform. You were.
Key in getting Meek out. How did your passion start for that? And how did you and meet form a relationship where you cared that much to help get to help to get him out.
Yeah, well I had no passion for it before I met Meek. Thanks, And so it's not don't give me too much credit. It was really like what happened was me could become one of my closest you know boys. You know we were hanging for I don't know, probably.
Four years, you know, pretty rankly.
I was talking him on the phone most days, and you were just you know, he was my he was my boy. And you know, look, I think everyone knows the story. But you know, he called me and by the way, both our lives, you call me that Monday morning, says, hey, can.
You come to court with me today? I said, you really want me to?
He's like, yeah, I want you see what happens when a black person goes to you know, to court. I was like, do you really want me to come? He's like, yeah, I really want you to come. And so I didn't think anything of it. I was just like and we talked about him like like you popped wheeling on a motorcycle, like you're fine, Like you're not, you know, like you're gonna be fine. And he had this crazy ass judge, I mean, she was crazy as could be.
So I went to court with him that day.
And I watched a probation officer recommend no sentence. I watched a district attorney recommend no sense, and then I watched a judge fight with the probation officer district attorney, and ultimately he by the way, they asked me to get up and speak. I talked about my relationship with him,
how he knew my mom. He's been around Adam Silver and Robert Kraft and all the rob math for all the commissions, like he'd been around my what like, yeah, this guy's not perfect, but like nor am I, And like I thought I'd give an incredible speech to the judge, by the way, like I thought, I was like, I was like, I'm killing it here. She's like I got her, Like she's not even looking at me. And she sends him in prison for two to four years. And that was the most out of control I ever felt in
my life, because like when you're in business. By the way, this is in Pennsylvania where I'm from, where I've created probably ten thousand jobs, Okay, Like I would think my word would mean something. And she sent him in prison for two to four years. And I was like, no, this sayn't happening. So I didn't care until that second. By the way, the craziest thing was Meek called me three hours later and I get a call like I was calling everybody. I was called the governor, the mayor,
the attorney general. I'm calling everyone Like I thought, I I have him out a prison in a couple of weeks, like getting the black person out of jail. It ain't easy. Let me just tell you, let me tell you, Let me tell you that right now. So I was lucky. I was sitting in the court next to Desire Prize, the CEO of Rock Nation, who's jay z partner. I looked at Meek and I looked at his his his mom. As they were taking to prison, I said, look, I'm not going to stop until I get you at of prison,
and Desrous says, hey, I'm Desire Present. We spoke on the phone. Once you know I'm not going to stop till I get him out of prison. I said, great, let's do this together and let's go. And you know, the first couple of months was only about getting him out of prison. I didn't understand the system. I didn't
care about it. And then when we'd hired maybe the twentieth investigator that was going back and look at it, and me kept saying to me, like, I know you're focused on killing this judge because you're what you saw was so wrong. I never did. When I was originally charged with he was charged for pointing in a gun at multiple police officers.
Now, I think you.
Guys would probably tell me if you're pointing gun at multip police officers, that's called suicide, right, And so he's always said I didn't do it. So we a couple months into it, we started interviewing the police officers. The first cop said, oh, no, he never pointed the gun. The whole thing's a lie. He said, huh. He's like, yeah, he didn't point the gun. We're like, we signed autfi Davi. He's like, yeah, but you know, our entire squad was like stealing money from like drug dealers.
We've all been fired and gone to jail. And so at that point I called me.
By the way, the Eagles were playing the Patriots in the Superbow called me and I said, great news, You're getting out of prison in the next couple of days. I explained the whole thame with the cop came forward. Took another three months to get him out of jail. And that between those three months when we said wait a second, when you finally get out of prison, we have to do this is like, by the way, you were sent to prison like God. And I'm not a religious person about like you got sent to.
Prison for a reason.
We got to take this and we got to turn this into something. We've got to fix this for the millions of voiceless people. And so we've had a pretty big impact. I mean, we started the Reform Alliance, you know, the year he got out of prison. We've raised you know, well over one hundred million dollars. I put tens of
millions of my own money into it. Now Fanatics, my company is a huge you know supporter of it, and we've already created a pathway for six hundred and fifty thousand people that are on probation parole that shouldn't be to get you know, out of the system, because what happens is when you're stuck on probation and parole like Meek was, you keep getting sent back and by the way.
For dumb stuff.
I'll tell you this right now, big business, that's how to keep you in the system.
It's true.
And if you put me on probation and parle. But Meek was on it for twelve years, he had another, uh, he had another I think eight or ten to go. He was he was like entire adult life on probation. You put me on probation prol for two years. I'm fucking something up. So I'm pretty sophisticated. So you know, there's just no there's no there's no way that anyone who lives any life, like maybe a saint could like.
Be on probation or programs.
It ain't It ain't me. So I feel great about what we've done. And we've also attacked the most straightforward part of the criminal justicism because with crime rates going back up, like like bell is a really complicated issue. Like you know, I'm not trying to say, hey, a violent offender who you know, should you know, be off
of bower. I'm not getting into that. Like what I'm saying is like, look, at the end of the day, it is mathematically proven that first twenty five percent of people that go to prison and jail each year are coming from probation and pro technical violations. They did not commit a crime, they were late to see the probation. I met somebody who got married without authorization and got
sent to jail for it. Okay, Meek used to go pick his kid up and I used to listen to the probation officers say, if you pick your kid up, I will say to prison because he lived in Philadelphia and his kid went to school in New Jersey. So, like, probation is supposed to help rehabilitate you. And so what we want to do is get the people off that shouldn't be on probation and parrol and then have the probation officers. And by the way, there's many, so many
great probation officers and prole officers. Have them focus on helping rehabilitate the people that really need that rehabilitation. So I think we're doing great work. It's a team sport. There's lots of great organizations working together. I think, like, look, having me go to prison for this, having Jay z as your founding partner, Robert Kraft, you know Meek, you know, we got an all star team. We got great I mean, we have so many great people with Claricize amazing Mike Novagrats,
John and Laura Arnold. Laurnold has been like, it's so helpful to spend so much time on this We've had. I mean, Jack dors has given a ton of money to this organization. It's just it's it's honestly, I look back and say, because I always I keep saying I'm never going to start anything new again, and I keep starting new things, and this is one of the things I'm I'm you know.
We got a lot of work to do, but I'm proud of the progress rooms.
Some states even stopping cash bail because people coming to jail with enough cash to bail out, you know what I'm saying.
They stopping that in some states.
So it's Look, the problem with the criminal justice system is it doesn't make sense, just like, bring business logic to it, Like, like, why.
Would meek Meek was like he hadn't committed a crime.
He'd done his two years in jail for not for pointing the gun that didn't point at the multiple police officers when he was nineteen, twenty twenty one. You know, I met him at twenty seven or something like that. He'd been on probation for another six years. I lived through him being on probation for another you know, six years in addition the six he was early on.
So it made no sense.
But I mean, he's making tens of millions of dollars at this point. He's he's creating lots of jobs for people, and we got this guy in probation, Like what.
We shit, it makes sense.
So as we stayed it earlier.
You left the six Ers about a year ago to be run Fanatics full time. Recently bought a sports book. Congratulations Mitchell and Neess. What's what's in the future for Fanatics you guys contents?
What's going on with everything you do?
Yeah? Well, first, we're just getting started. I mean, I feel like I've been at this for eleven years. I feel like this is you know, anyone you know, I wouldn't even say early first quarter. You know, we have three businesses. Did the first business of merchandise business we call finax Commerce. In that business, we do own Mitchell Ness, we own lids, you know, obviously the Flaship Finacs brand.
We operate all the leagues e commerce businesses, so you go to NFL Shop, NBA Store, NHL Store, MOB Store, nine hundred individual team sites, but our biggest sites. Fanatics is primarily a direct consumer business. And by the way, we've gone from two hundred and fifty million dollars when I started to over six billion dollars this year in
that division and we're just starting. And by the way, there's so many things we need to do better, Like I look every day and say like, not, what are we doing well?
What are we not doing well?
How do we get packages to customers more quickly? How do we improve everything that we do? We g got a lot of things we need to do better. Like you know, we are far from a perfect company, but we're working our asses at every single day and just getting better every day.
That's our first business.
Second business the collectible's business, which is really trading cards.
That's a really exciting business.
Today we own tops so we operate the baseball trading card business. F one bundeslige you for bote. Soon we have the NBA rights coming over, the NFL rights coming over. You have c launches January first. Wwe all the college right So it's super exciting business.
I'm having a last with that.
That's so dope.
And then we just we just started in the online sports betting business. We launched in Tennessee and Ohio. We've got Massachusetts coming soon and look, we'll be in all the states within a year. And look, I think for fanatics, you know what's our dream like are what's our north star? We want to have that Fanatics app where you can go and you can get your merchandise, and yeah, it's
one stop shop. You can get your merchandise, you can get your collectibles, you can trade them, you can you can bet your on your sports, you can watch live sports.
That's really dope, man, I love it again, like the way your mind works. I mean, every time you talk about something or a situation, you talk about learning, and it just seems like you're constantly learning and also giving back, which I think is dope.
And if you don't, you're dead right.
And the second the second I stop learning, I'm irrelevant and useless and like in the pasture.
So in twenty thirteen you said Fanatics will be worth ten billion. By twenty twenty, you were wrong. It was worth more. It was worth thirty billion. What's the goal here, obviously to have a one stop shop? What itever to sell? Or is this something that's never.
Never never, no, never sell.
We'll be a public company in the midterm, you know, not near term, like not in the next you know quarters but not it's not long term ei there it'd be you know over the next you know, several years, will become a public company. I want to do this till I die. I think if we have a massive opportunity. For me, this sounds weird. I actually will kind of makes sense. It's like money is kind of a way of keeping score of how you're performing.
So for me, what's the north star?
Hundreds of millions of fans maybe billions over time that are you know, just love using the Fanatics product and everything we do and to be great not good, Like right now, there are a lot of things we do.
I think we're mediocred. That's not acceptable. We need to be great.
We need to keep pushing them book and so you know, I look at that and it's like, Okay, how do we deliver packages customers more quickly? How do we make sure that every product we sell is perfect for a customer? How do we make sure customers delighted when they buy from us? How do we like, look at the innovation
we just did in trading cards. I don't know if you guys saw this, ye like and it was actually it's actually a great story because we bought tops fifteen months ago, and you know, the CEO of our collectible business, Mike.
Mayhann, said, Hey, I've got this great idea.
He said, I want to take every time a rookie debuse plays the first game. I want to put a patch on their jersey for that first game and then take that patch and make a one on one card.
And we went to tops.
And by the way, we make all the baseball uniforms, so anytime you buy it, but you know we make everything Nike in baseball, in football, in college.
So when you.
Buy Aaron Judge jersey, you know Tony jersey from US, you know we're making all of that that that product. And so that was a great idea. And the team said, like, are you kidding me? Do you think baseball is never going to let you put a patch on it? This is the this is a dumb idea. I called a problem. Manford, Like, Rob got a great idea. I think we should put a patch on a jersey's Like, so, how's it going to work?
Explain to him.
It's like Rob and Nogarn were like, go, let's go. It was done on the spot, and so like because of the position where we can and that was a great innovation. Now we're creating three to five hundred, because there's three to five hundred baseball player's debuting per year, we're creating these one to one cards. It's an amazing product. We're innovating that business like crazy, Like no one's ever marketed the collectible's business before. Like you guys, you guys
weren't marketing. You guys were like you signed cards because you got paid, you know, a bucket card or three bucks a card to sign right right for us.
Like none of this is acceptable.
Like I look at our partnership with athletes as pivotal to what we do. We have a couple thousand athletes that I think we can build up. We can like help them communicate with fans and they can help us communicate with our fans better. We want to like completely innovate the experience of how we do when we launch a new launch in trading cards, now we treat like the video game launch, it's like who we need into the cover, you know, like you know, it's an honor and you get.
Depending rights and experience absolutely so so.
And then in the gaming business, in the honest sportsman business, we're just starting.
So there's so much for us to do.
And that's why probably I work with a maniac right now because I'm just every second thing what we're not getting right, what we need to keep improving on.
I know we're up against the clock. We're coming down to the end. I'm going to give you a few names. Just give me a few words to describe this perse these people.
Jay z.
Beast so much respect for I learned so much from him. And people think of him as an artist. He's absolutely he's an artist. He's a business person with a platform, which is him being an artist. I can't say enough great things about him. He is he always does the right and there's more than a few words, but I just tell you he's one of my most respect and favorite.
People on planet Earth.
He'll always jump into a fight to do the right thing for his people. He cares so much like me. He doesn't he wants to you know, he doesn't care about money. He just wants to win and do the right thing. And watching what he's done in business is just it's inspirational. It's aspirational, and he's helped us a lot. I remember sitting with him. I'll tell you a great story.
I sat with him last summer. We were actually having to meet him and baby at my house talking and I was talking about, you know that we own lids, and I was saying, like I was worried about like where head where was going. He's like, Michael, you don't even think of headwear the right way is like, like you get dressed, hack goes on your head, that's part
of your wardrobe. Like you don't think about head where that when I went back to our Lids team and I'm like, we're not thinking about this the right way. And here's jay Z teaching me about I don't know, a billion a business more than a billion dollars the lids is and jay Z's teaching me about the head business.
That's Jay He's that girl.
Drake another beast, you know, one of the you know, most incredible artists in the planet. Great friend, a blad to have so much fun with him.
Hate his raptors, fucking hate him.
My worst memory of Drake is in the middle of game seven of the playoffs, he sends me a picture of himself were in six you shorts. He said, I'm coming for you. As soon as I saw him the sixty shorts, I said, we're losing this fucking game. And chicks asked, motherfucker, just put just put on these shorts. And I knew it was rapping by the way. I've never seen someone facetiming more times than me, ignore him more than it. After that game and he had he had no chill. We just lost.
Why hit the shot the bang bang bang correct?
And he facetimed every two seconds. That has just never picked up. I just went home depressed.
That's funny.
Kevin Hart hardest working guy. I know, there's nobody work right.
Was that you're taller than him?
Slightly?
Yeah, he's by the way, he's the only person that actually makes me feel tall is Khart. You know, great friend. You know, I think I work like an animal. He works like iework. He he is twenty four to seven, whatever you call Him's always pick the phone up. He's always hustling.
You know.
I'm sure you guys know we're doing a harthouse together here in California. It's been a dream of his. And by the way, I wouldn't get involved talk about Kevin's influence on me.
Kevin called me three years ago and said, hey, I've got this great idea.
Uh. He said, I need you involved with it. And I said, keV, like, look, I don't have time to do anything but fanatics. He says, look, I just think you know it's my idea. I want to do this, but I think you being involved would really help it. And he told me his idea, which just look. He said, fast food is a huge category. He said, plant based is where the world's going healthier food plant based And he said, I'm a marketing machine. I want to build a harthhouse. And of course he you know, you know
you listen to him talking. He was his energy.
It was contagious.
So I did it. By the way, now Robert Crafts has involved with it as well. We just brought in so you know, he's a beast. I just talked to him last night. He was in Ohio getting ready to go. He's on the move, always on the move.
Shout out hard Ventures boss, the whole crew. Those those are my people.
But I'll tell you one thing. I'm on one outside board, only one out sideboard, and I get asked to be on a board every week, like literally some some friend of mine, can you be on my board?
And you do this.
I've never done a board other than my own companies. You know, you have basically fanatics. Kahrt said to me, you're joining the Heartbeat board for his production business.
I said, do I have a choice? He said, nope.
You're doing it.
You're gonna help.
Like crazy, I said, you know what, anything I've ever actually do, you've always done. So I'm in let's go.
That's awesome, Little Baby really interesting.
Baby is so smart and like you talk about growing up, you know, in different backgrounds. I mean, no one could have a different background growing up. Maybe me and Baby. You know, I don't Actually this will shock you. I don't actually listen to the words of music. I'm not my attention spanges. I can't like I don't know this is no one believes about me. But ask Baby as meek,
ask any of my real friends. They would say, Michael is like there was something the matter with his brain, Like I don't know two lines to any song, like even dreams of the Nightmares, like I you know, I know, like the first sentence to it that that's where I stop.
Because my head just broken.
With Baby is like he's such a brilliant artist and he's got he also great thing with Baby is like we were just talking about this a couple of days ago. When Chic goes wrong for him, he just shakes off his right back at it. You know, you know, he was just you know, you know, look he told the story ready, so he's not gonna get mad at me for telling it. He was just in the casino and a little bit out of control and calling me. He's like, fuck, I fucked up. And by the way, I'm right back
at it, like let's go. Like you know, He's just like, right back to work. I'm just gonna I want to outwork everyone in the house wavy, and I think he's going to look again. I don't really know music at all, but I see how talented he is.
Quick hitters.
First thing to come in to mind, let us know and we're finished. You're gonna get you up out of here. When they make a movie about your life, who plays you?
Nobody? I don't want to move about my life. I just want to keep living my life.
But if it comes, hopefully be some younger looking dude, at least there you go.
Now, someone who's accepting to be old and the grays of it. I'm not accepting that shit.
There you go, bobbed in, I guess or alive.
Five dinner guests, dead or alive. I want them to be of all backgrounds. They probably be a lot of my friends today because we have such great conversations I mean, you gotta put Jay on it for sure. You know, the only artist I've never met in my life, which is kind of crazy, iss Eminem, So we got to throw him on there. Yeah, I know, he's kind of introverted and doesn't leave his house, so so I put him on there. Phil Knight, so much respect for him.
Robert Craft, He's everywhere I go, So I gotta have him and my dinner. And you know, I just I mean, Brady was so good today listening. I got to add Brady to it.
So those are my five. I'm gonna add a six.
You know, I've got to spend a lot of time with Recently, I'm so oppressed with Kim k She's a beast. You know, I'm thinking, I just started thinking to myself, I was having a dinner with five guys, pretty pathetic. So we should have we should have, we should we should have.
Checks a lot of different boxes. But but Kim's Kim's a beast. I mean, like talk about her business acumen. I mean, there's nothing happened for her by accident. Everything with Kim is by grind intellect. You know, She's been so helpful to the Reform Alliance. She just jumps in whenever we need her. We just went to visit a
prison in California together. We just together paid off fifty moms who had that ye who had They'd been stuck on probation only because they couldn't afford to pay the restitution.
She's awesome. So I'm doing six and add and kim do.
What over there?
You want appreciate that first trading card or most prized card in your possession.
I need my phone, I got a car. I'm gonna show you right now.
It's not that it's gonna blow your mind away. Hold on, so I'm gonna tell you something. My God's gonna kill me for doing this, but I'm gonna show you something that's gonna freak you out. So tell me what's the oddest thing you know about Tom Brady about sports?
He likes to take pictures in his underwear.
That's a good one, by the way. But that wasn't it. So Tommy was straightfted to play baseball?
Do you knew that? You know that?
Me there?
So he did this one on one card. I really showing up. I'm showed to you. Now this is going to a set. So this is a one on one card.
Read it.
If baseball doesn't work out, thanks, always football.
There's always football.
Oh, there's always football.
If baseball doesn't work out, there's always football. Wow.
I mean that's a pretty that's a pretty close.
What year is that?
I guess it was Shraft in two thousand?
Here you gotta it's I mean that guys got push ups?
Since what are they.
Called push ups?
Yeah, let's go, I got the joints ready?
Whoever?
It was Montreal? That's crazy. Yeah.
Well that's a dope card right there.
Yeah, yeah, I probably shoud up.
But fuck it, absolutely all right, good job for me.
Absolutely on my phone.
I should be releasing there you go.
If you could see one guest on our show, who would it be? But but you have to help us get your answer.
It's gonna be shit because this dude knows everybody.
So this is one guest on your show.
You don't want to help us get them?
You know, I want to do more of these things Robert Kraft because he's so young at heart and by and by the way, I've told Robert I do one of these months. And you know, I'm always meaning great people. I'm learning they're fun. It lets us you know, connect with people that are important to us. I think Rob would be amazing.
We'll go to him too, whether it's in the Antons, wherever he's at, Will will be there. Well, Michael, Man, we appreciate your time. Continue to inspire, continue to educate, continue to be.
A great energy and light.
And oh yeah, we've got some all the smoke gear for you.
Thank you.
This back feels a little heavier. Is that a reason why?
Yeah, special guest.
So number one, thank you for the kind words.
Yes, the store, make sure we go shout but.
No, but honestly, thank you man again to letting us in your house and everything you do for the community, for our people in particular, uh you know, sports, social justice and business.
We really appreciate you and you you know what I mean.
Thank you for warmly welcoming me in. And I look forward to this be in the beginning of a long relationship and.
Wait to see you do some push ups. Here we go, man, and that's a wrap.
All the smoke Michael Rubins live from this beautiful home in LA. You can catch us on Showtime Basketball YouTube and the iHeart platform Black Effects.
We'll see y'all next week.