Metta Sandiford-Artest | Ep 54 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode

formerly going by these days? How do you want the we can address you a certain by, how you want the public to address you? It's metal Sanda for artests. I took my wife's last name and my last name back, put it together, so I got married. She's Sanda for and then the art. Okay, so she's Maya Sanda for artest. I'm Medicanda for artests. Okay, you know what I'm saying. But Middle World peace? You know we um you know

I still go by that. Whatever transpired? What made you want to change your name originally from from run or test too? There's a lot of things, right, It's just like where I was at in my career. You know, I wasn't quite where I wanted to be at as a bowler, you know, and then on a lot of different levels. So and when things are getting in the way of basketball, is like, that's what I want most in anything. So I'm trying. I just want to win a game. That's it at that point. So just like

trying to be a little bit different. You know, I really like the sport. So I wanted to be who I wanted to be rather than what somebody else thought I was. That's it. That's it. So currently living in l A, kids in college, married, How is life, man? You see your your energy. I've been seeing you a lot on Instagram, happy posting, just enjoying life. Yeah, I'm just happy man. My kids in college. My son's roun I Test is UH basketball scholarship that you see Irvine.

He's a computer science Mason, which I'm very proud of him. I'm like, anything you want to do, just joy, you know what I'm saying, saying, don't be worrying. He can shoot lights out, can't leave him over so or whatever. Ronald Test is pursuing business and UH north Ridge season and basketball scholarship. My daughter is in college, um, studying, and my other daughters about to go to college. My wife is graduated and pursuing acting and modeling. You know

what I'm saying. And that's it. Everything, Everything is good. You went back to school and tell us about that. Yeah, I went back to school, man, because I had to learn s c USC. I went to u U c l A for digital analytics and and on social media and encoding, and then I went to you see, um, I went to Concordia Irvine for business analytics, you know what I mean? And just and then I was im coove.

I took Google Analytics, a two week course of Google Analytics because I'm like, as an athlete, we want to you know, sell much advice and do different things. So I'm like, if I want to really get in, I had to learns. We're on too smart for his on damn good. I always tell me that everybody the yo. Yeah, man, I suppose I was a little bit more positive to oout my career and I'm really lucky to have friends like you. I'm not gonna lie, you know what I'm saying.

Because I work, I ain't had a lot of friends because I was always always want to compete. You know, that's only want to play hard. I don't even care about anything else, you know what I mean. So, but you know, it was amazing. You're someone I always, even though we're the same age, I looked up to you just because of the way you played. You played hard. It didn't matter. You just play hard on both ends, play hard, tough, and that's you know what I tried

to do. And then I mean running into him. You all ran into each other. I mean we're all cut from the same type of cloth, so it was it was an instant connection. We got to play together. So it was dope. Yeah, I didn't know a lot of things about you because just like listening to the interviews that you're talking a lot, I didn't know a lot of things. It's crazy you don't know what your your

teammates are going to. Lamar was going through his stuff, right, and I'm like, Yo, no matter what you're going through as NBA player, That's why I love the bron so much, kind of like, no matter what you're going through, you always with your team because it's a different journey as an athlete, because the whole Lebron still married, right, Different things like that everything right. Yeah, these younger ones inspired me. I'm not gonna lie. They inspired me a lot. We

learned on the flight. I think they learned a lot from us because you think about it now, like the business of basketball wasn't around when we came into the league. It was about jewelry, cars, about women. But now they're talking about you. Now they're talking about like business and investing right from the jump. And that was kind of the turn of our error to these younger kids, you

know what I mean. So you always learned, but it was hard, not for us because it went from like a drug league to like getting clean to getting a lot of money. And none of us ever had no money, so they didn't different trickster, tricky trick man. Yeah, we tripped in, we tripped in, Oh my goodness, actually a whole bunch of knights. That was definitely the lifestyle. That was like, right, that's what it was. Someone was now to do it. If you wasn't gonna do it, someone

else will. I don't miss it. Nowadays they got they go to the club. They got one homeboard with money and it's about eight of them that's around him. That's just trying to get what they can. But when we was in the club, it's ten to twelve millionaires, all from the ghetto, all having a good time. I'll remember how we used to be when we played in the bad when we was the Warriors. It would be funny because the football dudes would get there first and try to get all the women in the club to be

in their area. When I promised you we walk in, walk in smoking, getting our second and how does it go? Everyone, even some of them come to our section like that used to be. Yeah, it used to be wild, bro, I love your squad. Yeah, that was what I used to come with our teams. Well, I came in the locker room. He was everywhere with us. What do we believe to y'all? Was just doing amazing stuff, right, and I'm just like I gotta be that to the game.

Came to the locker room all. Can you imagine we would have had him to guard like the boozers and the mill Sack. We would have would have we could have went to the finals. We could have went to the finals. We would have wanted. Yeah, I was still pretty good at that time. Crazy that you were still kidding? He was like at that time, right, yeah. I was only something. Yeah, and I too. I came back from the bro and I got traded to Sack. I was

to seventy three. I told Rick Adam and I was like, yo, I don't think I can play or contribute right now. I said, maybe let me get in shape. Man, How good of a coach was he? Did you like Rick? I liked Rick? I love Rick. Good dude, good dude. When when you hear the word queensred, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Man? I hate Queen's red.

A lot of things, man, just like good bad. You know, like you know Nas Mob Deep um capone because that's like queens were rapping music, mc shan Tragedy, Roxane shwante uh co Omega. That's a big bring. You know what I'm saying. Nature. You know, it's like really amazing. I got stories with everybody, so it's it's really crazy. As a kid, you're a fan, this is unbelievable. You know. You see Nas walked there, you see co Omega. You said, Hi the mom Deep, she doesn't believe what I'm like,

How did y'all do this? This is crazy? So I have so much. I had so much. I see inspiration every day. That's that's that's music too. Yeah yeah, yeah, So I'm a huge fan. That's why I playing of music. I'm a huge fan of the music part the queens Bridge and you know, and that's why I wrap people like why why you're at come yes to ask questions where you come from? I want to be like that, right And then I'm like my family was selling crack, you know, in the same flow it having you still

live like you have it come up? You know what I'm saying. Like, you know, it's plenty of times people in the crib po folk coming don't say nothing. Yeah, you know what I mean. So a lot of ships like that. I was gonna, I was gonna flust the drugs down the toile. At one time my cousin said you better not. Yeah, so I was like, she's crazy. Right now. It was a lot of ship like that. You know, my older brother with a jail ten years drug trafficking right when I was going to college. She

was super small. He got a company called leafy On Logistics right now ten years. But he's a brainiact. You know, it's like it's crazy. You know. My other son's computer science developed you know what I'm saying, Like, so, I mean he was smart, but moving drugs on the ground bus, you know what I mean? Ten years, no no negotiations, he was you know what I mean. So that was

that was I was. We knew he was going somewhere, and I knew I was gonna be my brother with me smart and yeah, and when he went to jails, had a latch on other people, you know what I mean. But then my people was like, I really feel like we had a great time. We got a great fun time. What did all that teach you? Like? How did what did it shape you? What did it when when you started going to these other cities you're a cream bridge and then you start you need your basketball talent starts

taking off and you start traveling in the world. Like, what did Queen's Bridge teach you to be ready to take on the rest of the world? You know what? It took always all other people, because like right before I was going to um high school, I was going to my brother's school. My brother had beef. I looked like my brother. I'm just saying ahead at that time I go to school, didn't run up on me. Latinos. So I'm I mean, I'm hitting you know what I'm saying.

Running to the principal's office. I'm like, oh wow, this is crazy. You know what I'm saying. Yo, They said when you're probably gonna suck you up, right. So I stayed at school to like five pm. I ain't leave, got out of there home, told my parents woul happened. I don't wanna call my parents because my dad had come up there. My dad I seen him do it to drug deal us. Dad, Please don't do that to him. But he's dangerous, you know what I'm saying. You know what I mean. So like I got out of there,

I'm like shot Plain Bald and Riverside Church, Buckley. Yeah. And then he's got me up Jesse. And it gave me a scholarship to a sham g with Thesal Academy or four years. I ain't had nothing. So that's what happened. You know. That's Queensbridge, you know, like they talking about talking a bit about the church team though the Riverside Church team was dope. Lamara old him when did you meet Loo? I met l he was eleven years old.

I met him in d S Parking Woods where Davis crew is from his people's just from and that's and then we had like, right, Haines Johnson, Right, heine Johnson was the beast you know at that time. Lamar was on right Heinees Johnson team today, Right, Henees Johnson was better than us. Yeah you know what I'm saying. And Lamar was probabm Lamar probably say the same thing. Ye, Johnson's better. Heine Johnson shape cotting it. That's that level.

Yeah yeah, we all know about that, right right he You know it was in and out a guy you know Morrison who Kevin Marris played with. Shoot he was a one year older he was yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. We had a hell of attended Jesse Reggie Jesse had a mob. You know about McDonald's game. You know about but you had a mob. But the church. I always tell people Elton brand All the same team that was real. I didn't. I didn't like, man, what

is this? Come on? Man? Man? We out of here. That was beat jump. He was being about fifty sixty and champions every every time anybody beat y'all just Baron David's team. It was what was beat the team, Jaren Collins, They beat us about twenty They smacked y'all. But we beat him in the championship game. Okay, you got him back the same tournament, the same tournament. That's crazy. But Baron Davis got a different story. That's my brother. Let

him tell us that we have a lot. Yeah, you mentioned music and how that instrumental that was in your life. Who was the Hoopers you look up to from your area? Man oh Man from my area. Verned Funding played paper in the places of the Paces, Burned Funding from the hood here here Olympian Chris Miller from the hood. My my cousin, who was He went out in jail for a lot of drugs. We had a baby with assistance with his sister. That's my Then I'll played for Verne

with Indiana Paces. Oh my fucking goodness, that's my Michael Jordan's this is unreal on some other ship, so wow. And then Sean Green played for the Indiana Paces. He had bounced from nas Block. This is a different ship that people don't really know. And Ronnie Williams from All Deep Block had to try out with the Celtics. And then we had Mel Kennedy played with Rick carl out at Virginia. Mel was nice. That's what call out about dye from my hood. We got more. I got more to,

I got I got more, YA got more to. I'm sure you got balls, but this is crazy. At this point I got so much inspiration Verman Fleming and nas this is crazy right as a kid, um man, and then you told them from that level, then we had some balls, like Mike chad Field. Mike chad Field passed away in a drug deal. Was nice as my man. He only he beat me thirty two two one time, right or a nice and got hard. He's in the street store and I was. He was the best, and then he went to jail, and then I came. I

was the best after that. And Michaels in jail for three years, came home when the eight teams still nice but couldn't go on the right track. It's my dude, but I winded up playing with his brother in high school for four years. But I average twenty five is brother average a chat Field. But all that, with everything, all I mean, everyone knows what queens is about. What kept you as straight as you possibly could be considering the circumstances. It was crazy on this weaving and out.

You know what I'm saying, because you know, I'm I was always a good kid, right, but it's so much crazies you're going around. You can be influenced by anything at any point in time, you know what I'm saying. Playing ball shots is going you know what I mean? You know, and it becomes normal. So you know, when the different type of people you interact with, it's how you're gonna feel you should act, you know what I'm saying, And that's where you know. But sometimes like when I

got older, I used to do math, uh problems. I used to buy math workbooks just down problems because I longer what like I'm says, because it's like y'all the is gonna do right now? I just try to stay focused. So it's different things like that I met my my first wife. I met her when I was fifteen on Moll Deep Block. Just just give your perspective and everything not to keep you not to keep name dropping. Um. I met her like in May and then I didn't see it again to the next main same block, and

that's when we got together. Yeah, a lot of ships. I was thinking about it the whole time, and then a lot of ship happened at that point. I wasn't thinking about girls, just only basketball, and I was like, you have a baby, you know what I mean. We have three amazing, amazing kids. You know. Throughout that time it was crazy because like I got really wild that time, you know what I'm saying. So um, but now it was different things that I would do as a parent,

different things I would do. Me a real book to this. While it's not being home, not taking your kids to the park all the time, half time for your kids, joke, their wife want to go to the mall, Go to the mall, put something together. Like it's the little things you can do because you're going out anyway, party and you're working anyway in the fucking club hard. You were working, taking your family to morow you know what I'm saying, and still have a good time. By the way, figure

that one out. That's how you could try, and sad Jack can help you, Matt help. I think I've accomplished that. Yeah, you can, you can help. I've tried, you know what I'm saying. You land at St. John's, Mike Jarvis two years there, What was that experience like for you? My Javis? You know, Mike Javis. He's a great guy man. So like when Fran left, I didn't want Fran for Schiller to leave. But I'm just training. I'm not thinking about the business of college. You know, it's I'll just let

me practicing hall. One day Fran gets fired. Why the guy who got me in shape, the guy who who almost killed us in practice, like pushing us. He's fucking crazy, this guy. And people thought that he would do wild ship. He would do wild shout. Let him tell his story, France everywhere, talk to friend. Y'all should have him all the smoke. It's my guy. But he was wild. But I love him cause he pushed us to the limit and we was getting muscle. But oh, this is crazy here.

I love the place of ball he was. Oh he was really you know, he's a passionate guy. But he left. Drivers came like an NBA coach more. You know, we were still balling. We were still balling. Actually, you know it was crazy that yeah, because the tyrone Gregg was a senior. He broke his wrist. We thought we was gonna win it all that. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So he was still nice, but I thought a friend

started that. You see what I'm saying. I thought a friends because of the same thing, but my jobs did that value because he's I'm more of a family guy, like going to your house, his wife cooked suit when you're sick. You know what I'm saying, Like family more than the coach, and he did it all. I thought he was an NBA coach. I'm like, I think he's more suited for the NBA. I didn't think, you know, I'm so, But that's how it was two years there.

I still remember your press conference. You said something like y'all gotta go get this money or something like that. When you what do you say while I was in college, Yeah, your press commences and now she was going to Yes, he said I gotta go this money. I remember that shot. I remember watching it on TV. I don't remember the exact words, but it was some ill like I gotta

go get this money or something like that. What did you think, Yeah, because I was like I had a baby at this point, you know, and I said I needed money. I got to diapers and I want to move and it was stuff like I said, I just NBA, but I wanted to try to win a title. We lost the Ohio State. Michael Red killed us. Yeah, they killed us. They killed us. They were so nice, but they deserved it. We lost by two points to go to find the Force. So you guys know that would

have been an amazing experience. Yo. What was the furtherest drop into in college? Well, you didn't go. We went to the Lead eight. Same thing the college I signed with my rookie my pressure year. They won the national championship my freshman year that was supposed to be to our class won that's championship. Wow, but you but you went overseas. Uh yeah, that's amazing. So coming from New York, was it a dream of yours to play for the

Knicks or you just wanted to play basketball, didn't matter where. Man, so many things. I wanted to be a Nick And I'm always that's I'm happy for all the smoke because I get to talk about it, you know, sometimes I want to talk about it, like like the Knicks, man um because they passed like they picked someone else. Yeah, yeah, they picked this guy whatever. I didn't care. Even if he was better than me, I didn't care. But I'm

like the pick. And I was telling my agent, I want to go to the Knicks, tell he's off the team. Please don't funk with me, you know, But I wasn't. I was a kid. I don't know how to express that, but but this is what happened to Nick. I was going there, gonna tell you exactly. I fund out, I suck it up. So by this time, I'm partying hard, I know. But they get running to some cash tramping, so I'm out. I got funked up at Flamingos. I was at Flamingos, I got twisted. Go back to the hotel.

So I'm drunk, and I like, I can't make it to I can't make it to the to the practice shows, to the triumph, to the workout, to the workout, to the next workout, workouts trip, I tell you to dude show, I can't make it, Like, can I please come next time? Can you just have me back? What happened? Had that happened? Right? So so I'm like in my mind, I'm thinking, I'm going so don't matter what I do, I'm going to the next right, this is me, right, I'm going to

the next here. Then I went to the next you know, sixteenth pick. I was in Chicago, bull But the next I was like, wow, I always pitched myself in the New Jersey picked the next five years old. You know what I'm saying. They had the fifteen also right before the nixt pick, and yeah, they didn't pick you. The Bulls pick you next. The Bulls picked me next, which I was happy on. Michael Jordan is you know what it's you know, it's like, well, I just compete, you know,

New York and Chicago. Chicago's amazing experience, a major experience, you know. So I had to nick shorts under my and the shirt from real. Yes, already already take off. He was ready to go, Hey, when's tip off? You just could you imagine we would have got the ripping ship off though already Yes, I feel like I feel like after you saying I can't make the workout, it was it was still from here, what it is? What you gonna do? We wow? Right, but we're trying on

the title. You figure out how to put the team together. To hey, that would have been big though, because that they for some reason they always miss on draft picks. Imagine someone from there at that time at twenty three, I thought we would have been play off contenders and New York who was on that team at the time. He recalled that was with nine that nine, that's your rookie year ninety nine n nine. But I still respect to play. They may run for the finals around that time,

right they did. I thought I could have backed up Spreewell and yeah the season season, just play some defense. The game, I'm imagine run coming off the bench, get something games. But it is that. But it's also like I don't want to down the next. I love the next. Like I know, people talk about doing whatever the case. Maybe I'm a nick fan, so I'm like, I'm a fan, like a real fan, so I want to see him do well. You're always even the years I wasn't thinking.

I was always like the wood if if this motherfucker didn't get drunken from me and goes, he could have been in the believable. That's classic. So Chicago Bulls, like you said rich in history, Michael Jordan, Pip, you guys got a good young team. There. Eb is there too, right? Is Elton there? Elton is there? Right? Because also, yeah we got he got the first pick, Lamar went four and I was sixteen year Oh my god, I told you the team was crazy that's that was an amazing experience.

That was an amazing experience. I heard a story about you being drafted and playing for the Bulls and then going having a side job the best body. That was real to Sugar City that it was real. It was just one of the discounts on the electronics and I I was just trying to stay out in trouble. I was like having man, I was looking at everybody up there with computers and I'm tripping you was looking everybody was heard in Chicago to yeah, I got a discounts.

I got a good discount. Man. I was like, you know we go at that time. First, you know, you got some money in ninety DVDs so I could buy ten DVDs. This is crazy, this is crazy. I could buy a fucking a stereo and funk I want right now? Yeah, you know like like that, that's like crazy, that's crazy. I want to TV. I'll give my TV half half a half off everything. And then I got two of my boys a job. There, Kit and Cedric, my boys. Dad was with me today was you know what, got

a job? This is crazy. Y'all got the house full of everything? Yeah? Did the teams say, well, all right, So when I applied for the job, I got the paperwork, applied. I never had a real job. About like I worked at like a Bagger for a week from my at my dad's job. I never had no real jobs. Mother's final paperwork. Yeah, him. I had the job. And then I got out to the media. And then you know Terry Cross, my guy Jay Cross, he was just like, listen,

you cannot even working. That was like working ship. My face hurts. So your first taste of basketball, what's NBA? Like, who's the first superstar you ran into? The first superstar that I ran into? You got the guard? Yeah? Like, what was your first introduction to My first game was against the next Yeah, I have fifteen points. It's crazy, thirteen points at a three point a while it Sprett well Hest was going at him. Yeah, I love I love those guys, you know what I'm saying. Just like

everybody talking about Jordans, these guys are amazing. Did you take it personal like that they were the next Try to compete? I compete at that game I played. I tried to do my best. Elton came in the league cooking aft. Yes, I have twelve you know what I mean? Elton was nice, you know, and that was you know, that was just amazing, like those guys, and then I got a chance to iverson. You know, I can't remember the exact numbers, but I always think about, like how

did I lock it? Do somebody up? That's how I be thinking about. I don't know what you think about, like when you think about your career, maybe how you were shooting, how he was like maybe Lebron's like a star Kobe r I pr brother Kobe. He's like a start. He's thinking for different lens, you know, to get some gratification. So like that, you know, how much did somebody have against me? Lebron? He he? Lebron came into the league. First game in Indiana. Oh so piss first game Indiana,

he gave me twenty five. He went to the fans and said, this is your best defender. Right. I heard this right, I'm furious. I'm I walked the other way. I'm like, this kid is great. I got out of these kids looking really good. But I'm super fucking passy. Disrespect me and I want to walk up to this motherfucker and you know he but he bought my ass, right, you know, so he you know what I'm saying. First game, So that was like, wow, this is crazy, So, um,

I really I really respect that. That's why to me, he's like I have that type experience. Jordan gave us forty also, so that was crazy. Jordan comes into the gym forty. Oh my goodness, this is a wizard, right the Wizards Jordan's and I'm just competing playing hard for you. So that was like kind of crazy, man. So you know, there's a lot of guys that was like, um, I didn't realize Stackers that good. You know I'm watching you

taking you are a team player? Yeah that people know you were like, you are definitely team You are a team leader. Yea at his best right, So he's he going to sacrifice and he's gonna give you what he got. I just knew he was gonna get JIMP together. And when I left, I'm like, oh, I didn't realize you was that good. But me and him was arguing about who's going to guard the best players every night? Every night? I mean this guy, so he took the pressure from me.

That's why I was averaging because you got all of those guys I'm doing, but the ones that was bigger than me. Like I would go out to two guards that could move, but the two guards that was twos and threes like Paul and all of them. Now you go wrong, you got them. I'm getting I'm gonna chase Ripper HAMMD. Yeah, I give him a round. I let Ryan and Ryan to wrestle him down too. I just knew he was going to get a chip. Bro y'all had a hell of a team. Man. That year. We

had a hollow team that Yeah, it was. I still loved that year. You know, I still like I haven't really like kept in contact with the players. I wish I would have done. When I looked back at that, it's like, you should just go to lunch, go to go out. I know you don't like your player right now. You had a little issue practice, but let it go. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like that type of ship, you know, because I know Jamal tensely from you, but we came to practice. He was on the same page, y'all.

Was that was really your closest friend on our team, Jamal Jal, Like even when when like you will be going at ours with all us, Jamal was the under one, the only one that understood you you're a lock away from us, but some type of way, you'll be over there talking to Jamal, Like Jamal always had a relation ship with you, bro, But I think he had a relationship like that, his relations with everybody on the team. Yeah, he was. He's a real leader. Like I don't think

I gave him but actually that's not true. We gave I was gonna say, I don't think I gave him enough like respect, like do your thing, but that's not true. He was team players now, he ran out, he ran the team. He was amazing at it. Yeah, I thought he I thought he was really really good, and he was getting better and better and better. And then obviously Jermaine was a great leader. You know, I always thought

is great leader. I always thought, like, you know, you compete to be the best, but sometimes like if it's two really good players on the same team, like emotionally publicly, you don't have to you don't have to compete. Right, just played the game, but you can still do things like come down, take the rebound and run off of play. Anytime you want to do what you want right and leave all the other stuff out. You could totally to exist,

you know, you totally co exist. But when when they gained the contract a little sense of the contracts, you know what I'm saying, That's where he started, you know. And that's when you when you hold the grudge, you feel like everything is attacking. All this has happened in the year before I come. This happened before you, before I get say all this happened the year before I come to contracts that used to the conference finals against you tried to where it started. All that happened the

year before I got there. But the thing is, it's still a lot of money. Like if the NBA team offer you money, like and I see this happened, a lot of players, not just me, who'll get mad over contract start being disruptive. I've definitely not the first one, right, but I would give it. My advice would be like, Yo, whatever money you've got somehow, that's when you deserve right, right,

because it is what it is business. So I didn't think about you get what you negotiating and you're still making a lot of money, you know what I'm saying, you can still have. It's still a lot of under you know what I mean. So um, when I look back at it, I wish I would have addressed things a little bit differently, but we still don't start line up me. You. Yeah, we had a great team, jo Jeff Foster, Jamal Tens, great team. Then we had everything

on the bench. Jeff Foster well always he competed well against Ben Willass. I felt like Bill Wallace was always great, as we know, but Jeff and Ben with the competed. They competed. They both played harder, and they had similar games. And we just have been with just a little bit more athletic, but they had a similar games. Games. So you get to you get to in the end of what year should I get? You get there? Oh two? I got traded in old two O one O two

in February. Yeah, I got traded in Miami. I was doing a lot of wild in Chicago. Jerry Cross has enough Indiana just said, all right, real take him. What was that experience like being traded? It was tough, you know, a lot of a lot of ups and downs there. I love Chicago. You didn't go far. Yeah, you know at that point then I had, you know, my son Jeron came at that time, so I was raising some babies. Geron our tests, um and he lived me for a year and a half. So I started out you know

with my first wife, kim Shaw. You know what I'm saying. So and I have you know, four kids total, you know, so it was a lot of transition at that point, you know, especially somebody that want to be a good parent. All right, I love my babies. I'm not tripping. I'm happy with all my babies. They live with me, I was saying, right now, you know, so we're cool, but not having time with your kids is like not good.

It bothers you. Right. So at the same time doing if, I'm doing it as best as I can, like I wanted to raise them. So we were together for a year and a half with him, you know, and then that relationship went seuth. You know, everything most mostly because of myself. Right, you know what I'm saying, everything mostly because of me. And then um, I tell them, you know,

I started taking parents in classes in Sacramento. Is trying to do things a little bit differently, parenting counseling, marriage counseling, and man, you're doing counseling in Indiana. I didn't want to do that. Ship man, they had both us doing that doing that Al yeah, I be doing that ship too. Man, she was wasting my goddamn time. I feel like it was it was cut into my smoking time. I feel like it helped me a little. Give me all that, bro, I got to ask you this question. So please walk

math through the source A war situation. Oh yeah, I'm so happy we're talking about that. Yeah. Please, because let me tell you what I remember after practice, were in the huddle. We had a great practice. When we huh down season at started? Damn? Then train the camp still, Yes, we are in we had a great practice. Someone, we're looking like a championship team early one second, y'all want second, y'all? Uh you know, I've just I really think that at

this time another season finished start. I know we got championship. We think about win the championship, but I think I need to take some time off to finish my rap album. And I was like, you know what to myself, I'm doing myself. I just love the fact that he had the boss to say it. I can't even, man, you know what I'm thinking. You know, I ain't think we had season they started yet, so I don't know where it's gonna go. So my mind's first year there. This

is my first year. I'm just getting on the team, right, so you know, you know, so I give them to the first thing I do down around my locker. You're the first thing I do. Let y'all know I'm here, right, So he said that. The first thing in my mind was like, I'm just meeting him, so I'm not even man, I'm like, this motherfucker's a legend, you know what, because I see he's serious. Now you take it from there. You're taking from there. I'll take you from there because

like I'm like, Okay, this is my guy. This is definitely my guy. This is our locker room. This is this is the locker room. This is our team. I mean that whole situation with the bloods and crips, you know, like I person ships with people that are like, but I'm not involved in anything anything. You never have, right, which is all good. Anybody everybody has their preference. So the source of was my grandma just passed away right October at that time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, So it's

crazy at this point, Oh my fucking goodness. Right, So I go to the hospital in New York. That's where the first place I gone. You didn't show up Lake, you showed up late. Yeah, okay, yeah, you're right, you're right. My first place. And then you know, she was out of commission. She was out of commission at this point. So she held my hand, grabbed my hand as the last as the last movement she made. My mom and my Auntie said, like you he was gonna crying and stuff,

And MoMA Auntie said, uh, she was waiting for you. Really, you think so cool? Cool? I'm good, I'm good. I'm good. So at least I know I got the last experience, you know. Then literally she passed away. There was no more gatherings like she was the grandma brilliant, the lunch on Sunday and in the hood. My boy Stephone Bonds is from. It's like the New Orleans, New York City, you know what I'm saying. So, but he was there

and that in that community was an amazing community. Also, you know, like I had a lot of great relations from Rock you know. Um, so I'm like, all right, cool, we're done. We're done grieving what we were doing. Who the fucking sauce of wards? Fucking That's what it was. Same thing. I was there for a couple of days and got it in the reason fucking Miami. Man' here. He was like, I'm not fucking getting in trouble. I'm here, find me man. Man. He was like, man, I'm I

just feel that something I need to do. And brigs like, man, we will talking about that. So were like in my mind like man, coaching, I'm gonna talk about of it. Yeah, I'm watching the sauce of awards. Done give a well one. I'm like, he is a legend. He is. Somebody said you want I'm like, you know what, I love rapping at this point. You know, I want to do both.

I want to play. You're rapping how I want to do it, and you can't do that as a baller, right Like we love like Damian Lille, Kevin Durant, all these guys, Kobe Brown, RP, Brother Stack, Jack Baron, Davis, Elton Brand got some good music that nobody ever heard that. I've heard thirty songs. B B. He's an amazing guy. He's so professional, always been since he was a kid, like Ada, never in trouble. Yeah, amazing guy. Played with this guy for five years, you know what I'm saying.

So it was it was. It was amazing, just so many different experiences. Man, Um, sometimes I do. I heard I stay on the show, and I was watching like all your shows. I was like, um, yeah, I forgot your question. I was unless that's how here right now? Yeah, like I said, I was watching it. You was on that given the way at water, I'm like, he really motherfucking went to the sauce of I didn't think it was harmeful because, like you know, I was doing other things.

You know, we weren't like we know, we weren't really tripping like you know what I'm saying. It was. It was a shock to everybody. How long until you came back to the team. Um it took me, um, well like maybe four days, five days, maybe three days. Wasn't that bad, you know, just his basketball is a fucking play at this point, I know how to do it. Do you remember this, but it was very disrespectful to

the team, By the way, do you remember this? When I think this is like a little bit after that, And this might have been around that time practice about to start. On to myow, we didn't that warming up. Nobody see you, nobody heard from around. We all them blew your phone up and you normally I saw all our cars like ship man, Well this motherfucker at Man

were in there, bring it in. We walk up everybody, one, two three, so as we say team, this motherfucker hits the garage door boom, practice uniform already on air force once church socks, let's go, let's go and s nothing bro and got to went to work and practice dogess and ones with church socks. No take, no nothing broon,

he said, he the dog boom, Let's go. Like I'll be at the club in Indiana to like three in the morning and we go right to the gym at that point in time, like I was shot at that time. So I was playing well, but you know, I love the game and I felt like I was always ready to play some I'm like, what we understood? What now? We knew one thing about it regardless what was going on. When games start, we can count on it on both ends. And it ain't too many people, you know what I'm saying.

It ain't twenty people in the league I played with that I can say that I played on some good teams with me and you and beating some guys, the defenders that really approached the game with the same attitude we all apposted the same way. You know what I'm saying, At all costs, were going, We're gonna give everything we got. It's very few people like that, but we knew we can count on him down. And I knew from me intimidating guys, I knew how people were scared of him.

You know what I'm saying. He getting tend to twelve points just out of layups because Jamal tens is one of the best pass in the world. So he's sailing. It's a post play we run where I run across the screen for him. If my man switches the two guard on him, if the three guard don't switch, the roan got himsels under basket, Jamal tens just giving to end up get twelve points a game. Jamal Tensley like great on Lebrun, Oh my god, he would have been great. Yeah,

Brian had a lot of great point guards. I'm just saying, like, because you know, when you're screening and getting position, you know all that he just find all you gotta go up eight points like that every game. Every game he got about eight points. We had a lot of guys that understood you too on our team. You know what, I'm saying, we all come from the same walks of life. But like even when you go off the rail, you know what I'm saying, we understood you. Yeah, yeah, and

I feel appreciated about you guys that stop. When I wined the championship with the Lake is the first thing I think was Indiana. I went to a whole was going to the whole other bunch of ships at that time due that whole time. It was crazy, but I was getting through it as Dannie Washing held us down. To Dannie Walsh, amazing guy, he held us down, amazing guy,

like a dad, like you know what I mean. That's one thing I mean, you learn more than ever today's You just never know what someone else is going through, you know what I mean. And in the grieving process and the understanding process is different for everybody. Like you said, you had to bounce to Miami to clear your head. You just left your grandma. You're clear, and then you came back and went to work. But you just never know on a day to day basis what someone else

is going through. So you try to try to be good everybody if you can. Yeah, definitely, absolutely, But it was still but everybody, every basketball player is different. R really, we all know people on teams, so you know, but it was still good to be like that from a basketball standpoint. It was still solid. It was still up. I had to think Indiana because I know as a kid, I wanted to be the best, and I had a

chance to be the best there. I mean, I think about it, that's a big accomplishment for me to even though I went the other way. So I always church that, you know, um, Isaiah Thomas gave us this thing before that said championship, like that's what everybody was thinking. I was a little disruptive. You know. They fired Isaiah at one point in time because it wasn't no chemistry between us. So you know, but I got a lot of love Indiana.

I can go on and on Indiana. Ask question docs I got, I got another, I got a couple of most stories. So I'm gonna keep so we all get to y'all, I think we gotta do more on this. We gotta get in depth on this next question. I mean the game against obviously, it started in the Eastern Finals the year before Jack comes that next season and then you guys get in a tool with you know, the Infamous Malice and the Palace talked, I'm gonna both y'all just talk to me about because I remember where

I was at at the two. I was the Sacramento at the time. I was a Sacramento at the time. And it was at halftime of the game, and you know, sometimes the TV beyond and all of a sudden we see a fight in the whole team, coaching staff and all we come back in the game and relate to the second half because we're watching you guys fight. It was just it was it was the attention. You could feel it before in the warm ups, and I didn't know the magnitude of the attention, which we had a

robber between them to you know what I'm saying. But you know, I'm gang, I'm down this inside, I'm on. I'm righting, you know, Riff, And that's my boys even trying, that's that's my bars. I'm cool with them. But at this point, you know, how we ride we on this side. I'm not thinking, Alady to put you in that position. That's why, because I don't know. I'm happy. I'll hearnthon,

wasn't they all? So I don't know, I don't know what he would have done, and I was, I'm sorry, abou, like I know, you're a real one, and I knew, like if anything happens, we're gonna jump in and you know, and that's when I learned a lot from that. I don't take my friends out, sorry, my certain friends at that time. I always make sure we was in the best spots and I don't even have security comes sometimes

just to protect my friends. And you told me that after after right after that, I get what I get to what he told me after that. But you can feel attention, bro, you know what I'm saying that, Like I knew it was a good team. Everybody saying we could possibly win the championship. So this game against him measuring instead right, and we end up we're blowing him out. Were blown to my blowing him out. He had a great game. I had a good game. What what part

of the season was that? It was just like nineteen games in November, Yeah, November November, not even Christmas ship Christmas, yeah, yeah, but we had we we was like what four or five games about five? Yeah, He's like we were seven two yeah something like yeah. So we was on a good start. I remember the end of the game. I'm at the free throw line. I turned around. I had Jamal say something to you next to you know, I'm like, no, I go out Ben, because I didn't know exactly what

he said. You know what up? But I know bullshit because I know Jamal. He had me on bullshit and get san Antonio. So I know the team you play. If you if you got any type of ship you want to get off your chest during the game, Jamal is gonna be the one to remind you. Okay, trust me. He don't forget nothing. So I caught him and I'm like, nah, I got Ben, So look now you go, I don't know what happened here before that. Yeah, he was just I'll tell you the story quickly. And you said, I

know you said no easy baskets. Yea, even if we up, no easy basges. And I just let Ben go by score because I'm trying at the time right out you know what I mean. I'm trying to just let it, let the clock. We get out of here, and Ron comes piusing and I remember saying it wasn't it wasn't that that reaction was the same reaction like James, because I didn't really flush hit and he wouldn't have a not it was. You can look at it closely. I was right next to you. You look at he dropped

like a sack of potato. I hate that image is one of my wife. That's sometimes I hate that image. But it was like James Harden gave me a little nudge, right, a little nudge. It wasn't that big. The same thing I did with been Well. I shouldn't have brought that up, but uh, you want to talk about it, I can talk about it, by the way, you know. But yeah, you know, I just laughing, Matt, What are you dropping? Like? Matt? You know what? I meant to do it right there?

So I meant to get there right now. But because you guys suspended for the playoffs, and that funked us up to you, I don't get suspending for the playoffs. I'll tell you what happened. I got spending for seven games. Was that before the playoffs? Yeah? One game and then I got to spending six games in the playoffs and I came game seven. It was tied up against Denver. In game seven, we won the game. But um, but so like when he when he nudged me, because I

thought dunked it. I got the dunk, banged it. I was like, oh shift, I'm hyped up, two hyped, sucking Mike Brown. This is what's really happen. And I'm not blaming nobody. I'm telling the story and this is like, oh, but like Mike Brown comes to me, I'm in zen mode at this time, right, I'm trying to be meditated.

You know, when I play with the straight faces, I don't try not to get too excited to play, you know, becauld you know, you'd be dunking on people like are you like you know, but I can't get that emotion. I don't because it's like it's too much emotion in the game and I want to just play in that set. I don't want no issues. Mike Brown says, Yo, I need more energy. Come on, I need that rock, you know. So I got a dunk, right, and at this moment

James nudged me. I'm like, get off me. I thought it like I thought they'd been like his on the shoulder, like get like like just rubbed, get off, you know, not like an elbow. No, not right. So that kind of hurt me a lot um But that was the same fat like a Ben Wallace. But if you see me with Ben Wallace, you up now. I didn't put it up. I want like this because I was gonna say my bad at that point because and when he pushed me, I'm like, all right, venus man, right, I

didn't want to. I didn't want I wasn't trying to get been mad. He was mad. There was mad, and his parents just passed. He was just too, he was I didn't Yeah I didn't. Yeah, it was death too, you know what I'm saying. I was like, oh I found out. I found out later. So but for me, this is me and been Willace Beef as basketball. He's getting Defensive Player of the Years and I want that, that simple one, right, Yeah, yeah, I was gonna get it.

I led the league in text flagrants. Media is not voting for you know how that goal and you you wildn't know it was for you, buddy. So he was close. And then I came back and got it the next year. I was gonna get it again. He got it when I got to spend it. Yeah, yeah, he would all get that, right, He's a great That was then opportunity right there. So I think that's where you know, we're on the what me and bend and guard each other and we was busting the ass. But sometimes me and

Ben will get into the mix. So we have pushed. It seems strong, you know what I mean, Like we heard the two best defenders in the league. If we don't and I don't, I can't do what he do rebound and I'm not. That's not what I do. He's amazing at that. But on this side, I'm like, this is me right here, you know what I'm saying. So I really hope he makes a Hall of Fame, like I really do him. You know, actually he's a whole famous. This is not I've never talked to him. He did

say one thing, which I get it. He's a he was, He's a real he's a real one. But he did say like one things that you know, like I don't care what Metas Goron is going through. Somebody asked me question. He don't tell. He don't talk about it much. He don't talk about it much. It is what it is. It's fine. Everybody is different, you know, but that personality

after he pushed you, we all knew. Yeah, even you're talking about you saying therapy helped you we all knew what you were supposed to be doing, Like when you get to the point where you got mad, so we all knew what you was going do. You gonna go somewhere and sit down, So we knew we knew he was going to do that. Thank you, you know what I'm saying. We all knew, I know, the world didn't know you was gonna go lay on the table. We knew you you was gonna go isolate yourself, and that's

why we all knew that. So when you when you put the headphones on and Reggie went Reggie went planting so regiment right on topic, right by you and put his hand on your chest. Because we all knew, you know what I'm saying, we're supposed to do the world and no, you know what I'm saying. So everybody thought he was being an asshole, you know something about putting the headphones on, so that I think that piste being off when he started throwing throwing more stuff at him

and then at him though this is crazy. At this point, the referee did a harbor job or moving everybody. So what was what you was thinking of when that was happening. Well, you know, at that point I got hit me in the eye. Hit me in the eyes. So now I'm like, yo, what the funk like this? And I'm talking to it. So anyways, it's too much promotion. The rest I thought, you say, you know when somebody does something that out and let's call them off. I've seen this happen before.

I've seen referees go and they sprint to a position where they get some space, you know, the funny, and they're going out of here. You know, you know, everybody got their little moods. Boys, I love them. I got a great relationship with the refs, but you know, they really entertaining none of that. Where is that? Where was that? So ben still and stuff? And then all of a sudden, a motherfucking beer comes down. Oh my goodness, and you see what did you see? Who thought what hand was raised?

How did you know what direction it came from? I thought it was Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryon. Perfect many mothers with precision right in the face. Didn't waste nothing like he followed throat with their mother Like, yeah, for real that it dead owned dog about six rolls up. Perfect hid definitely Randy Johnson. There's only a few people that could, like Steve Nash, a perfect path. Oh my god. But it was crazy because I was leaving in the

direction this way when I got hit. I was always just bullshit, I'll get tired, right, So and I turned. I saw it. It came from side this poin. I'm not worried about that, you know, I'm not worried about being at this. I saw you just hear what a fucking bear, right, So I learned. I turned and this guy wasn't like this, right, So I'm like, oh, shoot, you hit me. Ain't nobody hit a three right now? You know if I hit a three? You know what I'm saying, right, it is not like Mike Tyson's in there.

He had a jag. He knocks out someone and the fans is chairing. This is basketball, right, right. So when I seen how you did it, simple math man, you know what I'm saying. Okay, So I go after him. I ain't. I ain't go up there like hit up buck pong. I went up there to shake him, like hell, but really a good shake. You know what I'm saying, Yeah, don't don't this guy? Right. So, So anyway, then the guy who actually hit me, that was John he he grabbed me, he stopped. I'm thinking he grabbed me to

be like all right, fights over. It's crazy. So I'm like, yeah, somebody please give me and I act like I want to fight like you, and then he stopped putting me right, So I'm like, this is fucking bullshit. At this point, you know all that's going on, I'm laying people. I don't know above you. I didn't laid somebody out. When I saw you, I'm like, oh, what could I get? Jack? And I thought about so much ship at that point, I'm like, this is because we're London. We're gonna lose

a lot of money. I'm trying to get out of home work and just I can't believe I just I lost somebody. I'm not paying some money soon. When you when when you went Roy, it wasn't just me, the whole team, team, the whole team. But when I got on that road, when when when he grabbed you, I'm the first one and I grabbed you too. But what they never talked about wrong is another bell came in your face. No, yeah, that one was that one. I

was really really latest ass out yo. See listen, I never wanted you to do that I grabbed you first. As soon as I grabbed you, the other bearer came. He was right. I know that I couldn't let that right. I can let that ride when I've seen that. I don't like y'all. My goodness, this is out of control. This is out of control. But why did you throw a bear in my face? Man started it? They started?

What's going on there? That's what's happening. I'm trying. I want to get out of there, like like we got bread, were supposed to be a man, did a lot of money, a little somebody us. Get out of here. We upset right now, go home to our nice houses and out get the out we got here with every refreshment in the in the concession stand on the way out. And then what's crazy? Is my goodness? I was crazy? That was well. Actually before that, the guy that comes on

the court, you get the tangled with him. Come on, man, like, so I'm walking down right as I'll walk it down. We never got a chance to talk together. First time I'm talking about this, and we're all all the smoke too, right, So so I'm like, okay, I'm mad. I'm from Queensbridge, right, cool it happened up there. Nothing else is gonna happen because no one's gonna dare come next to me. Who would I gonna make these guys coming? And I'm thinking like, okay,

he's mad right now, right, he's mad. Right, I'm like, oh, maybe he's just like wanna go, Oh maybe we wanna go, like you man, what you're doing? Man? You know, like something like that, like a chess boke, And I'd be like, man, to get on my face. He find the face right, he comes like this, what the fist? Right? So I'm like, oh, ship, damn, I'm hitting. But luckily I know to box a little bit. So I was in the stands like this've been with the right straight right? You know what I'm saying. I

gave him a straight right. I gave straight right, and but it was water on the floor at the whole time. There's a bunch of barrels. Immediately when I see him and I'm about to push him, I'm like, if I try to swim, I'm gonna false. I just I just kind of let my foot just gotta chill out so fall, you know. And then Jermaine see this, Jermaine comes in there, sake the lord the ground that No, it didn't. It didn't.

He didn't stop nothing. Yeah, but if he wouldn't be able to follow through with no fall, he must left that on the stretcher. Yes, bro, he still left him up on the stretcher. So this is what's happening. People can see that, right, this is what's happened at this point. Now I'm like, oh my goodness, my same thoughts was up there, same thoughts of Jamaine. Jamain is a leader.

He's a superstar. He's a superstar, right, and just like, um, fuck, you know what I'm saying this, this is happening right now. It's gonna be in trouble for this. Yea, even though I know I was like, this is a reaction, like you're not gonna let your friends get hurt, right, I'm gonna like kind in the centator. I feel bad, but I see what they do becase I would have did it too, anybody. I would have been up there too. It's something different with I get the funk out there,

you know. But the fact that it was you was like the problem. I feel like this. It was just like I didn't expect that, you know what I'm saying, Well, I know you didn't because when we got in the locker room. This, this is how I know you didn't expect it, because we're in the locker room right first, this is the first so you know, now you know how Jamal is. He laughs at everything. I don't care if you shot. And as soon as he finds out

you are right, he crying laughing to my hat. So he come in the locker room, he crying, laughing, and it's it's always like this, JT me run. That's how a lockers are always are. So he said, I was like, yo, I didn't know we had this many real niggers on the team. My bad. This we that's the Jamal. I'm to my laud bro. We just got the brawl. He crying, laughing. So he called the runs it back. He's like, then runs it back. He's like, Jack, do you think we're

gonna get in trouble? I say, trouble, but we might not have a job. He's like, yeah, you're right something right. Do you think this is my thing with that? He's so funny by the way, and yeah, that's you know, that's exactly right. Yeah, you're right, because it hit it was like you right, something might have a job. You got how many games you get? I got thirty? Oh my god, you got how many the rest of the season two or something. I don't know. Some bullshit sun

up our whole season. Man. We didn't deserve that, man, because the end of the end of the day, we was at work. A beer came from out the stands while we was at work. He did his job, he had calmed down. The referee did a harbor job once being pushed him in the face, a good job, escorton being whoever else was involved Off the court, none of that ship wouldn't happened. But they let all that ship linger so long. They get the fans got into it, and they was able to throw the You know what

I'm saying. That ship led to all that ship. But if they would have did their job from the jump, you know, because people get into entanglements all the time down the court, entanglements shout out to Jayden win straight up. So I mean, you know, we look back and we laugh now. But and you spoke on this, and we spoke on this before. I feel like, as someone competing against you guys, that was a black mark obviously on your resume and it held you back from a lot

of accolades. You should have received a lot more accolades and All Star appearances, Defensive Player of the Year, First

Team All Defense. I think there were things you guys could have did, and that was really a black mark on like your report card, especially with him, Like you know, I know I missed a couple, but we both know the player he was, motherfucker, and he should definitely have five Defensive Player of the Years and a couple more championship but they overshadowed his great play by the little

mistakes he may not really just being misunderstood. And you know what, you ain't able to be an example, and just like it's an experience and we see it happen with him and beings all the time, right, people don't do different things and and it sports so many different things happened. So you know what, I was a part of one of those instances, you know, one of those problems and issues or I'm a stat with that. But you just get back. You're an example, and you just

get back. So it's like I kind of I kind of don't I kind of enjoyed the fact that I'm able to give back and help people with different issues and stuff they have in sports and different things. So that's how I look at it now. I definitely went through go through it, so they won't go through it. Yeah, yeah, from it. So the aftermath of the malice, um you end up leaving? How long after that? When you when

do you go to year? And then? So now what happened was we came back playing well, he balling people. It wasn't great, and I request the trade because I'm you know, I'm at that point, I'm entitled and was there fishing in the locker room between because he was gone. We end up making the playoffs. I came back, We made the playoffs, made a nice in the run. We would have had him, we would have made a run. He was just still a missing piece. But I was

still going through things emotionally. I'm just like every little thing bothered me. I was drinking about acohol at that point, so you think, like alcohol and everything better at that point, but it doesn't, you know what I'm saying. You're thinking like you just go out party and that's gonna make everything okay. So things are still paling on at that time, you know what I mean. So I request the trade because you know, I'm like Ship, I'm in a contract

for three more years, a lot of things. Everything is bothering me, you know what I'm saying, like just give me some money right now, and I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about I'm playing um also, and then a bunch of other Ship and Jail went on the same page. Either. I definitely didn't have apologize to the guys like we weren't. No problem is just you know what I'm saying, like

there's a lot of ship that that was happening. It was tension because I'm and then I feel like I fucked and what actually wasn't the problem is all in my fucking head. But tell you the truth, because we didn't see no problem, like I didn't know it well, well for me, it was a problem like not you guys me like I was going through so much, you know, so I'm looking for excuses at this time to escape, you know. But so I just requested the trade. What you doing? We was all I was hurt, you know

what I'm saying. So that's what it was. And and then I then I'm still I didn't apologize for that, like just so much ship, so I'm like, I need to get out of here. These guys don't like me, you know what I mean something like that, you know what I mean, and just trying to go somewhere else. I wish I would have wanted Donnie Walshing said, Donnie, I once I did. I did so much. I've been

through so much. He I think I should I think you should trade me, Like I wish I would have did something like that, rather than be like, you know, going to the media, go to me. Yeah, the officers open, you can go. There's no locks on the office. You're not gonna dare the jams canna come out. I'm gonna tell you this because he Jail probably never told you this, but I know why Jail was hurt. It wasn't because

of anything you did or asking for a trade. It's just that the fact that, you know how we all knew, especially him, I want to win the championship. We knew with you we had a great chance. Yeah, and he knew that. You know what I'm sa He knew that, bro, And with our whole team to like Ron leaving his motherfucker, there's gonna be twenty times harder now, you know what I'm saying. We we had we had we had a unicorn.

He was a unicorn. Since let me getting your flowers, you know what this we liked a lot of like to have a lot of y'all on here. Bro, You was a unicorn. It wasn't nobody your size that could defend all positions and that could score on anybody every night. And when you left our team, like we all understood, like, damn, we're losing one of the best players in the league, you know what I'm saying. And that was Jail never told you that, but that was he was because of that,

because we're losing something. We're losing you know. I think I know what you're saying, But he was because Jail is the leader. He knows he's a real friend, you know what I'm saying. So if you're going through anything, you can talk to Jail about anything, right, you know what I'm saying. So yeah, of course, but you know,

I felt like I was doing so much. I felt like, um, nobody was ever going to be my friend, you know what, like you, and I wanted to like I wish I could just like real quickly, like hey, I'm sorry about that, and I'll move on that side. And I know there's a lot of people like that. That's why I love the NBA. Now I got a differ perspective on you know how these guys are friends. You know what I'm saying when I look at that him like, that's dope because because we as ball as you know, we're going

through a journey. We got kids like things. So I respect that. I wish i'd do that more so. Sacramento brief stint. Get to Houston, yell mean Tea Mack. He talked about t Mac talked about when you came. He was excited because he thought you could have been the mixing piece to them. But then he got hurt and he got it and it was crazy. I was cooking

at this point in time. I get I get to the Rockets and before I call them, I don't want to put too much things out there, but it was money offer it that it's okay, But I don't care because you know, it's all perspective, but I don't care. But I go to Houston thinking some things that happening. If I playing well, things don't work out. So anyway, I'm cooking and UM come in, I'm averaging two points

like eight minutes. Okay for like fifteen games. But I'm not I'm actually I'm more I'm more mature at this point, so I'm going hard in that at that time, but I'm not playing. Shane is playing in front. Tea Mac playing in front, So I'm damn I'm trying to get a contract. You know, we know that. Go Tea Mac is hurt. Um and then I come in. I think I like twenty come in there. Um yeah, I was cooking and we were rolling. You know what I'm saying. We get to we get to the playoffs. We beat

the beat We beat uh my brother. I love Brandon Roy he played by the way Louis Stola, Aaron Brooks sold these guys, Kyle Lowry, these guys played well. But we beat that team, getting six. Yeah, at home, caught advantage. We go to the Lakers. We beat the Lakers by twenty game one, Um yeah, it's unbelievable. At this point, Lake has come back, beat us game to game three, be back at home, y'all breaks his foot game one

and we still go to game seven. I was averaging like twenty two or something like that in the series. You know, Um, so it was a good time. It was so I really I really try those moments because that's my that's my trophies. I love basking. Don't kid like I really not all the time talking about like ship, but I look at YouTube and you know, I kind of I try to enjoy what you can enjoy. Absolutely,

I don't think he realized that. And you got this much respect because like Jack said that, like you were hands down one of the best players in the league. Like you didn't get recognized or spoken on, but motherfucker's did played that thing. Know that you could put up twenty anytime. And you have the craziest hands I've ever been around, as far as you'll take it from you when you were right in front of you when you're

right saw us battles and practice rohna. Let you sometimes go past you just so we could wipe around and grab that ship. So being Matt used to shoot after every practice, we stay like five in the row. It was fun. We're gonna get to that. So what was your because I know my incident with Code and he ended up following me to get to the Lakers. You guys had an incident where you put hands on him during the playoffs and then that it was closet. I'll show you know what you guys got into it. So

what I'm saying was, so how did that end? Because you ended up with him the next year? Yeah, my brother, And how did that happen? So check us for me and co covid. You know, Cope is nice, you know the same thing, and he's sucking me up. He'd be right here. One time I knocked the win that that's the one. I almost tried to find him that game. But we've done the same thing to people, right, So at this point I get it. I went to the ref, man, that's my boy. But I go to the refer like, yo,

did you not just see him do that? You know? Was like he said, no, I didn't see it. Right. So I go to Kobe. I'm like, my brother, I don't like you, don't ever do that again, my guy, blah blah blah blah blah. Right, and then Kobe don't care, Kobe, focus on the game, right, Kobe's like, Kobe's uh killer different different right. And I interviewed Kobe actually that year I was in the league, I interviewed Kobe. I look like I was on Fox that's I look up to Kobe,

but we're on the courts, is what it is. Right. So then the next year we took him the Game seven, Hell of a series. He was the title. I'm out at SLS Hotel, my boys. I get a call from um my agent. They said, you want to go to Lakers? They said, they said, the Lakers want to want to talk to you, And I said, for what, you know, I mean they want to talk to me about But um so then you know what I mean, man, this is kicking my ass and ship, right, So I wanted to go back to the trade well in the Anna,

that's what I'm trying to go. Yeah, yeah, because I want to do something some legacy, like let's do something different. So but they was like, I don't know right away. I have no teams, you know what I'm saying. Teams, I'm like disruptive. Now you think about it, like if I'm going on a team disruptive, other players are. The age is like, this is not the best fit for none of us. You know what I'm saying, It's not the best fit for none, but some people think it's

a good fit, you know. So the Lakers, just like I said, I said, I said, whatever they want. He said, sorry, we can't pay you. I don't don't even worry about it. I ain't got no office. Well I really talk, you know what I mean, don't even trip you. My man in first season? What is it like working with him day and day out and then you guys ultimately winning the absolutely and Kobe rp my brother Code, So you're there, You're a Laker. Now you're working with Code day and

day out and you guys want to tiele. What was that experience? Like? It was amazing, you know. So he hit me up, you know, real quick, and then I think Magic hit me up real quick, you know, just get there. It was all business. I wanted to win the title. I was like, I never thought I'd be having opportunity when a title after all the ship I've done league, So it was just crazy. I'm just trying to do the right thing. You know, I am doing the right thing at this point. I'm twenty nine years old.

So practice was very competitive, right, you know, Kobe is you know what I mean? And he was drawn. We had it gone sometimes, you know, which I missed those moments with Kobe and I'm just playing very well. And working hard in five thirty in the morning seeing him. In the first year, we got a ring, you know, and that was it was so hard won ring that got one. You got too, so you know I got one because so I came the next year. So the next year, I remember when the Orlando sho had happened

with the ball figure I come the following year. But I just remember excited about playing with Covid, excited about playing with you too, because I thought between us three were three of the top five ten perimeer perimeter defenders in the game. So like, you know, yeah, So I remember when we would be out there kind of doing our thing and someone might get a bucket or too. Kobe would I want to take him, and then we would always trying to argue who was gonna take, So

it was me and him and out there. But one thing I remember with that team though, practice are always really competitive, but you and Phil Jackson used to get into it a lot, and Phil used to challenge you mentally. You guys would go at and you would talk ship back to him too. I'd be like, oh, he just had that to feel. But you and Feel had like a unique relationship. Speak on your and fields relationship because

it was unique. Like Ron cusses due out about his feet one time, I almost ship on myself and practice brother was insane. It was a great doesn't matter. Anybody know Phil and he gets unto everybody and sometimes but he's a great coach. You know. This is where we had we had together as coaches and players. He's doing this thing and he can push your buttons in a way, you know, get you focused in different things. And it's all for the team, all for the better amount of team,

you know what I mean. But we had we had issue. You know, he uh was talking about my shoes. He would keep you calling me cement feet, right, so Phil called me cement feet. I hated it got on my fucking nerves so and then everybody would laugh and I know everybody laughing because it called me simithy. So I got in his face one day. I was talking to everybody in practice one time and I was like, yo, we almost beat your last year with the rockets, fucking bush. Yeah,

it feels like enough, it's enough. Like no, it ain't enough to say it's enough and not in people face it but you're not like this, but just like walking like just like talking like this, not like that, not like that, because I'm just talking like because I was competing against everybody at this point, because these guys are good, and I feel like you're picking on me, and I feel like you don't think I'm nice and I'm only averaging five points. There's a lot of ship that's building

up at that point in time. But that's just going in my head. That's what's going on in my head. But you know what I mean, and flat that issue filled on home grudges though, I'm so happy. I'm so happy he understand on like what you're going through as long as you don't escalate. Um. I've seen a lot of players gett into a Phil. How he handled a situation escalator, It's crazy, right, He's not afraid. He feels crazy by the way he seen Phil play. You ever

seen Phil Jackson played basketball? He played like us. Yeah, But you know what, when I was watching the Last Dance and I was watching how he did stuff to handle didn't trama, not that you're Dinner's rama, but he it was interesting because it made me instantly think how he would do stuff to you and get a reaction at you. But I would instantly. Even see it in practice, like it would be that faster switcher turn on or in the game he would say some ship to you

would stare at him and you'd be super human. And it was amazing how he knew how to deal with everybody differently and got the best out of everyone differently, and he went about in different ways. Yeah, he did. I think. I thought it was great, man. I really was a fluence at that time. I was getting to Buddhism at that time, and I was like going through all these phases of like faith and belief and things

like that. I was getting the Buddhism heavy at that time, and not have you but a little bit changed my name and meta. I really enjoyed the meditation. I really enjoyed doing you know, singing bowls, listening to Tibetan music, you know, things to re last year. I love it. I'm influenced by it, you know what I'm saying. And Uh, that's why I love Phil so much. I really thought it was a blessing, you know. I thought he was a blessing. Definitely great. You had a showtime dot quiet

storm um with showtime with the family. Uh, tell us what that experience was like and yeah, I thought it was a dope, super dope to tell your story quiet Storm is dope. Um. Bleacher Report first came, it was like, Yo, we want to do a story on you. In my mind, I'm like, I want some money and what I want a story for. I'm not only I'm not a social I'm not an influence. I don't even want nobody talking

about me. Yeah, I think the money. So we started we thinking that part out and then like I'm like, we're gonna talk about like I only want a documentary. At this point, I don't want to. I don't want I don't want the documentary. I want to just chill. But anyway, we get to it. Right showtime comes in, I'm like, oh, this is crazy. This is I'm like, damn what you know what I mean? So we're about

to do something else. But I've really wanted some of my other friends from Queen's was music on a documentary because when you talk on the documentary about it's a little more. I'm like, I ain't trying to tell you what the dude you listen to me, listen to me, you like, yeah, I know what, Yeah, I know what the phil you know what I'm saying, Um, but it

was still a great doctor. That's to see when people are doing documentaries, when networks like it's a given take right, never putting up all the cash, you know, you know, listen and you give your input. Or they got a story, you got somebody telling the stories that they don't how to do it, you know what I'm saying. But so with that being said, a great experience. At this point we are getting nominated we you know, um on Hulu, like, oh, this is crazy right from that standpoint, and then also

I really people said they changed their lot. Some people said change my life. I'm like, oh wow, because people don't know I was going through all that at that time with the doctor. But at the same time it turned out great. It's a great message. Um, he had nae music, we had moved music, we had my cousin capone and yeah, you know, um, but it was great quiet storm, Um, great experience. I think. I think on the mental health side, I didn't want it to go.

So it was supposed to be how I played ball, for one, So I didn't think doing a mental health doctor was gonna work. You know, I want I don't want to be a part of it. You know what I was saying, this new basketball, but it turned out great. It was important. I think, you know, it's something that that that is. Before if you spoke on it, it was a week it was weakness or you were showing weakness.

But I think more it's coming to an age now where you can speak on it and realize, like you said throughout this whole interview that amongst your job, which is basketball, there's always ship going on in your life. Yeah, there's always something going on in your life. And I think people don't understand that no matter what is going on our life, good batty between, we still have to focus and try to be perfect on that basketball court because that's the job. But it's so much that goes

into that actually happening that people have no idea. Yeah yeah, yeah, now that's true. So the Lakers win a championship uh this year? Uh in honor of our brother Cob obviously rest in peace. I read somewhere saw somewhere you said you smoked tan blust and party like you was on the squad. Let me tell you why I said that. Every time I said, I could like we've been through so much with this marijuana thing. Yeah, yeah, outside, we gotta put the weed down. Back in the days people

on the jail from marijuana. So I'm like, I really appreciate the movement of cannabis. I appreciate the movement. And you know, I prefer not to speak. I prefer not to smoke like you know on like shows like this, but I respect what people doing, so I support. You know what I hasn't helped you, hasn't helped you at all with like you said, the mental health, mental focus

any of that. I like CBD. I don't like the THHC as much because the T A C. For me, it takes you out of your mind a little bit, not much anybody like you can still smoke TASCO sometimes, but CBD I like it better because like if you're you know, working every day in office, like you don't want to be on TC all the time. So I like, now they got options and you see, like Viola has options and you know, in different levels for your mood, and these CBD products is like amazing, Like the whole

thing is great. I think it's great. Some people don't. I think it's great. So that was all that was, honestly, I didn't have Tim Blunt's at one or two happy for them to win. I had the other eight. Probably Yeah, if you needed help, I would have helped. Let's reflect on Cobe obviously tragically taken from us, him and Jianna and the other victims in January. Um, what was it like getting a chance to play with him and getting to know him better as a person. It was amazing.

I had a great experience. You don't think somebody's gonna be not be here one day. It's really crazy, you know. Um, he's amazing player. I interviewed Kobe when I was with the Rockets when we had issues on the course, you know what. Like, but I looked up to I wanted him to know, like, I want to interview you like you don't understand has has how I compete against you on the court. It's not how I feel about you.

So I was really honored up about that. But I never had I never we never did anything, but I fox put it together. I was like, can I please anthew Kobe like this right? Um? And I did it right. So Um, And there's a great experience playing with him, his hard work and just being being alongside of him. This is crazy, Like, yeah, Pippin was alongside Michael. Now I'm not saying I'm like Pipping what power was more like Pippen than I was like Pippen. I was like

a three or fourth. I'm saying, like, it's amazing while I'm doing it with this guy. He worked hard, he respects me. Um, he's doing this thing. But you know he's also like giving you some shine in crucial moments when you didn't take a shot for a long time. He trust you, right, So it's amazing experience. And then I was able to have jenne him and had drinks with him at the end of his career just just

like talk about things. Never had these moments, So that was was seeing that, seeing him how he was with the young guys later in his career much more like because you went back to the team, right, yeah, I went back to the team. He was more like having him under his wing and you know, anything to seeing what his family was amazing. To sitting here and passed was like really devastating. I mean something, I got a call from somebody I took to the game. I got

a texted Kobe not here. I'm like, what, it's crazy. So I called him. I don't know, only call him that. I texted Lou Williams like and KG, I said, Yo, did you hear this is it? Yes? This is real? This is real. You know what I'm saying. So I'm like, I said, it's probably not real. You know, we all went through every mond. It was crazy and was so so sad he's not. Yeah, but you know, um, he's just an amazing guy. And Gigi and the Briant family shout out to g and the Brant family. I heard

about your experience. I didn't know about these experiences that you had with Kobe, like on the McDonald's game and stuff. This is crazy stuff out. I was like, wow, you you know, Jack was so happy because Jack always talked about the McDonald's MVP and he he said that the V every beginning we started this show, He's like, watch Kobe. Oh no. And sure enough, Coode said, I thought you want m VP Shi. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Remember it? Yeah, you remember it? You know, yeah? Man,

rest in peace to code Man. It was it was fun, like I said, getting a chance to play with you and him and and just to like to see a competitive nature to all of us and even though like he was doing the bulk of our scorn and our job was to do what we do, he always wanted to do it for us. Let me take you. And I wanted a good teammate too, because you could play. Yeah, because when we when Kobe was out, alright, my brother Kobe, when he was out, we played well, right Kobe with

my brother Kobe a little satellite. I mean, you know it is any time the star star goes out, that means you are least going to get three to five more shots, maybe more. So it was it was fun. Yea, yeah, it was a good time. That's as a bench player. Be ready, just be ready. Just never know. Quick hitters. Top five artists. I know you have a ride range of music. Who's your top in your opinion? Your top five artists? Do they have to be rappers? Not any kind of music you like? Cool? So I got a

bunch of them. Um I go top five? How ago like Mary J. Blige? Okay, um that's w V. I swear to you and then I would say, um um nas right, uns an amazing artist. This last album is unbelieving. I shoutout King disease like tragedy, Cat Fee from Queens Ridge, No artists, Lauren Hill, La Hill. That's a good round up. So that's like you, who's your top five NBA rappers? Oh yeah, yeah, thank you. Top five NBA rapp sho number one? All right, then I would say I like

Lou Williams a lot. I like Loue. Okay, so all listening parties and everything. Um, I would say Chris Copeland. A lot of people don't know about Chris, Chris Coblan nice um, Dame Dollar Okay, I go Dame dolland I go with Vic Victor, Victor Ladipo. Does he do R and B? Does he wrap? Shout out the big Man? He dope dope? And I really have probably listen to the music and now. Also, so that's top five. Put me on the spot. But I like lines those nice I never heard and you got some stuff. We actually

did a song again, you know what I'm saying. I feel like badly is nice too. Yeah. I love music. I really like it. I like I like the athletes pursuing music. I like that that put their music out. Yeah, I put it out. Yeah, just wrap everybody wrap, just put it off. Yeah, you put it out, put it just put it out. Yeah, don't hold on to your your dreams starting five to win a playoff series? You with you on the court, you me coing plus four? Cool? Are you going to war with? Okay? Cool? So me,

I don't hate the type of questions. So people I play with, I mean me, stack you don't stack d you know, you know, you know you're my man too, Matt, So I got stories, but this is about me. I guess all right, and so me and stat Um, I will go Kobe, Yeah, yeah, best. Who's your four? That's that's that's four right there? Who's your foreman? Or just who's my foreman? I don't have to be foreman. Who point sad? Somebody bring it up? Okay, you need more

more player? I can play before one player. I would say, well, we'll play the fall. Nobody scho weren't on us? Yeah, my god? Five best ballers from the NYC. Um Oh wow, that's a great question. Joe Hammond. That's easy. First dance and then um lull cinder uh oh man, Well, I'm not gonna say Michael Jordan Brooklyn. I would say it, but I'm not gonna say that because he's going as a baby, all right, so from New York City. Yeah, Chris Melon Krismolan had a really great career in New

York City. Um, we we're just talking about the city. And then Kenny Anderson as a New York City guy, Kenny Anderson, Yeah, yeah, I give you time to think, you know what I mean. Kenny Anderson's Kenny Anderson's New York City guy had an amazing um run, I think that's five. Because you know, Joe Hammond was one of

the best from New York City and everybody else. So we don't have a lot of video, but you hear these stories and for what I hear, Joe Hammond was like probably best, but you know, um real legit playing I obviously we all know the story with Pete Kirklin. You had to try out with the Lakes. Oh it was a monster. Felipe sorry, Felipe should be there. He's in there, in there, he's in there. Felipe as my brother. What name a player you wish you would have played

within your prime? Man player I wish I had to play with in my prime. Well, it's not really nobody like when I was. When I was playing, I didn't want to be a nobody's team. You know what, when I was playing, But that's such a dumb way to think, because the people on your team are really good too, right. So I was getting calls from a few players that you know, wanted me on a team, and I was like, nah, I need to beat you. You know what I'm saying. You know, but it wasn't out of disrespect, you know

what I'm saying. It wasn't out of disrespect. It was just competitive, you know, man um so and it's um so. That was it. I was jobbing nobody's team at that point. But I think Kobe was the one, was the one because the play with Lebron would have been amazing because like he's a mentor leader all his friends. You see his friends, you see all the yea. So that's like, you know, that part of the game is super import I really, I'm sorry to go rambling off about that's good.

Your dinner table dead or alive? Five people? You want to have an educational conversation with the dinner Dead or alive? Who? I say, Mozart, m you haven't had that one yet? I say that one. Maybe it's whoever was the king of our people before we brought here from Africa. I don't know his name, the King of Africa, don't even know. Well, it was our people before we got young American. Okay, save them a spot, alright. Cool. Um, I would say

just say Massa Mussa. He was the richest black man ever. Okay, Massa, Let's go Massa Mosa. And I would say, Um, what's the other guy that does the science stuff? Bill n Not a black guy, the mathematician. Somebody knows names the Grassi. Okay. Then I will say, oh, Steven Spielberg, nice big movie. I love that one. That's gonna be interesting. I say, maybe right now, that's the wildest list I've ever heard.

That's gonna be a hell of a conversation, y'all drinking or smoking at at that table smoking smoking you Hey, that's a rap man, Ron, somebody's a pleasure man. Gotta have you back, man, Thank you. You catch just on Showtime Basketball YouTube in the I Heart platform, the Black Effects podcast Network. See you all next time. This is all a smoke, a production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime