This is Matt Barnes. You're listening to All the Smoke before you dive in. If you want to listen to uninterrupted episodes, you can unlock ad free listening right now with the subscription of Black Effects Plus. Just click to subscribe at the top of the All the Smoke Show page on Apple Podcasts.
Welcome back All the Smoke, coming to you from Dallas, Texas.
Jack. What's up, bro?
Yes, your stomping arounds not your city, but you're stomping arounds.
The earth is your turf.
We got a very special guest today, someone I've admired from Afar from a long time entrepreneur, businessman, father, owner, man and mini hats. Welcome to the show, Mark Cuban, Thanks for having me. Guys, appreciate one.
Is not the coolest owner, the coolest. Appreciate that man, I appreciate it.
Yeah, your name has come up in several episodes. Kevin Garnett, Steve Nash, Jailer, Parsons, Two Chains, Muggsy, Paul Pierce to name a few, but it was all positive stuff and we just kind of wanted to give you a shout out because there's not many guys like you around that are really in touch. You know, obviously you know, whether it's hobby or you know, a job when you're an owner, like I feel like there's a disconnect between a lot
of owners and their professional ball clubs. And I really feel like you have a pulse not only of your team, but of the city. Where does that come from?
I mean, I guess it starts just because you know, I'm a ball as life guy man, and you know I like to play. I still get out there and make an idiot of myself, but you're gonna see me before games getting shots up, you know, enjoying the moment and enjoying owning a team. And I don't know, it's just once once I got into it. And I also
had some good mentors, you know. I had Dirk, I had Finn, I had Steve Nash who came in at the same time I did, and it kind of guided me and you know, took me in and showed me, Okay, you know, here's what it's like in the locker room, here's what we need. And I just listened.
And that's rare because, like you said, you listen to them a lot of times when you're coming in and spending all your money. It's normally your way or the highway. But for you like say that, you know kind of guys are even younger than you are showing you the ropes and you're taking notes at the same time. It makes sense by the organization is what it is.
As a lot of owners or that's been around longer than it don't have a championship, so.
Well I only got one, right, No, I know, I'll take it. I'll take it more.
The current state of the MAVs Lucas coming up on year six, it seems like it's gone by fast. Last year he was thirty two, eight and eight. Unfortunately you guys missed the playoffs. What have you seen? What do you love about him? And what are you looking for?
The lea? What leap are you looking for in him? In year six? You know what it's like? I think, who is it? You'll Kich said, you know, first you gotta be bad, then you got to get good, then you got to get humbled, then you get good again, right, And I think that's what's happened to us before, like when we got beaten two thousand and six seven by by Golden State, right, humble the shit out of us, and that put us back on a mission. It took us a few years to get there. But you know,
I think the same things happened with Luca. He's obviously, you know, a top three talent in the NBA, and sometimes things come easy and then you got to learn what it takes. And I think last year humboled all of us, and Lucas come back with a vengeance. You know, he worked hard this summer. You know he when things don't go well, you get a better understanding of the game.
When things are going well, it's easy. You know, it's when things don't go well that you find out who you are, who your teammates are, who the organization is. And I think Luca, more than any of us, really took that the heart. His leadership skills have improved, his communication skills have improved. You know, he's learned from Dirk you got to add something to your game every summer, and he's done that, so you know, all the pieces that you need to do to be a champion. I
think he's pulled those pieces together. I want to back up a little bit.
When did he get on your radar, because obviously you guys make a trade Draft day for him. How did he When did you guys start hearing about him or knowing about him?
Shot? When when you know, when kids thirteen and he goes to play in Europe against grown men, you hear about it, right, right, and then you kind of question it. It's like, okay, it's Europe here, you don't really know. And then the scouts were saying, look, there's a sixteen year old dude, seventeen year old kid that's playing against OKC and he's fearless. Yeah, just fearless. And so then we started really paying attention. And it was interesting because
you know, our scouts liked him, Our analytics guys loved him. Right. The scouts said, okay, you know they had eight number one our numbers, guys like, this is the only superstar in the draft. Wow. Yeah. So that's where that was really the impetus. And you know that trade. You know, we tried and tried and tried, and it was like fifteen minutes ago before our pick, and I called the owner at Atlanta. I'm like, you're not picking you know, Luca, and you know the guy you want, So let's just
do this deal because he'll be there for you. We'll give you a pick, and you know, instead of the general manager is messing around. Let's just say this numb, right, And.
So we got to you mentioned something interesting because I've always kind of been maybe I don't know the game or business enough from this standpoint, but how much of it is analytics and how much of it is the eye test with the scouting when you.
Guys both play, it's both and you know, analytics folks have got their perspective, and then you've got to have the eye test because some guys they'd show up. The numbers are great, right, particularly coming out of college, and when you just watch them, you're not quick enough they played, you know, you know they're they're twenty six years old, right, you know, and there's just things like that. But with Luca, it wasn't you know, he's not the world's greatest shooter.
He's not a pure shooter, but he's a killer. And there's not a lot of guys that have that killer instinct, that aren't afraid of any moment and want that moment. And that's the hard part to recognize that the analytics don't.
Tell you I'll take a guy that can hit a shot anywhere on the court, than the poor shooting any.
Day, right, Yeah, that I've ever seen the stuff Like we were playing New York last year here and we're down and he had to miss the free throw right in order to get got the rebound in on one motion put it up. I mean, you can practice at one hundred times, it won't happen. It won't happen, right.
Right, incredible this off season. Kyrie Irving three years one, twenty six. What was the negotiations like with him? And what is your relationship with them? Obviously he gets a hard you know, yeah, he gets a rap or you know, stuff sometimes out of control. Sometimes it's just him being him. But what has your relationship experience been with him?
I love him And it wasn't really much of a negotiation. Was like, tell us when you're ready, right and you know you got to you know, talk to other people, do what you got to do, but we're here ready for you. And I love Kai. You know I say this all the time. Kay is the dude that you become friends with in college that when you're sitting around in the dorm room, you know, or just chilling in your place, he's going to get into a deep conversation no matter what. You know, you could all be talking
sports and Kay's going to ask you what's this mean? Yeah, what's this really mean to you? What's in your heart? And as long as you're cool with that, which I am and Jay kidd Is and the guys are, he's easy, you know, because his heart's always in the right place. Now, you might not agree with them all the time. There might be takes that he has that You're like, okay, Kai,
and that's okay. Like I told my vaccines, we would have had an issue, right, But hopefully that never comes up again, you know, And we've talked about it, like, look, there's gonna be stuff we disagree with, and as long as we respect each other, that's fine, you know. And I respect him not just his talent on the court, but how he connects to people off the court and how he connects to other players. You know, you see it all the time. Guys will swap jerseys. You know,
they known each other. Kai comes up. It's not about the jersey swap. He like he gives you a grandma hug, right, It's like the hug your grandma gives you that you know, you know that there's more than just a little connection there. There's a d connection there, and so you know, most people aren't used to that. Most people don't understand that. And so I like a lot.
I love him. I go to war for him a lot, you know, through a lot of stuff. And I think what I love about the most is he loves people. Like he cares about people for real, you know what I mean, regardless where they at, Like just he'll walk outside and see a homeless person to go over there and sit down and talk to him.
He cares about people.
And you don't have too many people, especially athletes about caliber, that humble themselves to take their time to care about people.
Say it's all about us, it's all about us.
But also he does a lot of stuff and it's not for the attention at all. Takes care of people and donates and does all this shit and there's not cameras.
Like somebody reached out to me and it was an Indian basketball team and they needed some money, and I'm like, can I just text him like, Hi, I'm putting in half you want to cover the other half? The heart though? Yeah, and didn't think twice just done. Yeah, beautiful.
A side of outside of health one thing you feel like your team needs to do to be in contention for the championship this year.
I think just a little bit of time to figure out everybody's role. Last year we struggled with rolls right, different people wanted different things than what Ja Kidd had established. I think now we've got the roles. The hardest part for us is going to be rotations because we've got a lot of depth and too just getting d lively and omax some run so they get a little bit more comfortable, you know, because you can't be a rookie come in and just all of a sudden be the
guy right and know exactly what to do. You got to go through those ups and downs.
Signs though, We talked to Tyson Chandler about him before he ended up coming back, and he was saying that, I guess, did you say you or someone said there's a kid over here that kind of reminds us and we would love for you to come back. But yeah, he's he's been.
Reached out for him. Yeah, because he's a baby, Tyson. Yeah, he's even got the same sh to him, right, Tyson, you know, quiet laid back, but when he dunks on you, you know, he's a mean dunker, right, and so the live has got the same thing. Oh Max is getting there.
Y'all can build the identity now with Grant and the rest of the guys. You have some guys that can kind of play that tough role. That's that's been a physical physicalness and a tough guy is something that y'all been missing in my opinion.
Well yeah, because there's guys that won't back it up right right, right, And Grants a talker, you back it up, but he won't back down from anybody, right, And so that's good. Guys know it, and it's sets a great tone. And it's like Luca, He's got Luca's back all the time, back what you need, right, and so you know, and d Jones, you know, it's kind of a little bit. He's not gonna be a tough guy, but he's We don't got guys that are back down guys, right, We've
got guys that are the stand up. Yeah. Well, they're all competitors.
We've recently started doing stuff in the communities. We started and Sacramento with this stuff with the Kings. We would love at some point to come back and team up with you and do a live show for your fans and your season ticket holders show.
Talk about, yeah, we get out there in the community. Awesome, go to a school or something or something.
Something that I and a lot of all the teams appreciate. One reason why you are to go to a lot of us talk about how how did the idea of coming about feeding the opposing team? Because if y'all don't know that to put an audience in the world listeners.
Every time you play the datas Mavericks, whether you.
Win or lose, you win, you get to eat you because it's a full buffet.
Laid out in the locker room. Barbecue, beans, corn bread.
Every biscuits, you name, links, links, all ribs, just sitting.
There, barbecue sauce on the whose barbecue sauce that is? But it's good.
And right next to it is a cooler full of any beverage you would love.
What what? What? How did that come about? Though? I want to embarrass other owners, That's what it was like, because I would hear from God, you know, we don't get this. You know, we're guys. We would trade for you know, guys would tell me I just went from the outhouse to the penthouse. You know, and I'm like, okay, I just want to rub it in a little bit. And so I'm like, we're cooking for our guys. Just make a little bit more and give it to the
other guys. And I used to put in like really plush towels too, but y'all would steal them all and so it was like take them all home. Yeah.
No, that extra effort is definitely recognized. Like Jackson, you don't see it everywhere. KG called the Grandma's cooking. Yeah, Nelson's.
First class. Then it's Cubans class class. Yeah, oh my god. So flinting PlayStations, same thing. Right. It's just like you know, it's like there's downtime all the time. And this is before everybody had a phone and everything. You want guys in the gym. You want guys in the gym. You want guys comfortable coming in, right, and just during that downtime, it's like, okay, play some PlayStation. We had a TV in there, connected the cable and everything. Now it's not
as important because guys got their phones. But back then it was like okay, and again I wanted to embarrass every other owner. We got a plane, right, and it gets with the plane. I used to tell everybody, and I told all the guys, that's like, tell everybody, we got a weight room on the plane. You don't have a weight room on the plane, right, But we would tell everything. Yeah, we would tell everybody we had a weight room on the plane. And we oh, for sure,
for sure. We're still like one of the only teams. I think it's awesome. Maybe one other team has got their own plane and it's designed for seven footers, right, so you can come in, you're comfortable, play cards all the whole nine yards.
Talk to us about the process of the purchase of person in the mass.
Oh my god. So I sold broadcast dot Com and I was a season ticket holder, right, And it was the ninety nine, two thousand season. I can't believe it's been that long. And I was there with my girlfriend then wife, and it was opening night and I'm like, it was lockoup. No, it was no, that was ninety eight, ninety nine. So the next season, yeah, next full season. And I'm like, it's opening night, it's not a sellout,
there's no energy in the building. I'm like, we're undefeated, right, I'm like, we got Nash, we got Dirk we got Finn, we got Sean Bradley, and so I'm like, I can do a better job than this. I was like ding ding ding ding d. Now I can afford to do something about it because I never dreamed of opening a team that we crossed my mind in a million years. So I'm like, okay. So I talked Markguire was doing
some stuff with the MAVs. So my season ticket rep connected me to Markguire, who connected me with Ross pro Junior, who owned the team then, and two months later, three months later, I owned the team January of two thousand. Yeah, it was really fast and actually I could have I probably could have gotten the team for less, gotten better. What did you get it out of five? So it's turned out, okay, turned out.
It's trending north right, yeah.
Right right, it's crazy. But the difference between the team now and when you purchased it, Oh, I mean the league is so different, right, I mean you were around back then. Just you know, the league goes through periods of time where the guys adapt to whatever it is that's going on, from the business side, from the social side,
from the competitive side. So back then it was transitioning from a bangor world right where you had the nine lit bulls and you had the pistons, and you know, you still had Ben Wallace playing, and it was a you know, you guys know it was a bang bang bang bang business, right, and it was physical on the floor. And with Nelly we're kind of the run and gun team. And with Nash we were skilled and Dirk was getting better,
but you know we weren't. We were skilled. And the other thing that was really different back then is not everybody could shoot right. You would always have one guy who was a defender and not even run to the corner right, and then the star could always guard that person right. Or it might be a big that you know, would bang. You were Bruce Bowen, right, Bruce Bowen, you know he got to the point where he hit a corner three right, but with the spurs, Dirk would guard
Bruce Barber Bowen right. You know you're there or you're playing, you got to guard you. But there was always someone you didn't have to guard like fast forward now that doesn't exist anymore. Everybody can shoot you. You can't be a player that hey, I'm a great defender. I can't do anything else either. You've got to be vertical in block shots, or you got to be able to make a shot when the ball comes to you and be three and D or you got to be able to create a shot. And I think a lot has changed
over the last five years, in particular because of social media. Now, like we're talking to you got a to fourteen year olds. I got a fourteen year old son. Right. They're on Instagram or TikTok all the time, watching dudes and everything that they do and trying to emulate that. Whereas when we were growing up, you know, maybe you saw a game on television, you know, and maybe you went online and you know, looked at some stuff on there, but not like now we're like on your phone and so
and now you know, there's coaches online and everything. So everybody has training. Like there was no coaches when I was growing up, Right, you played basketball and football and baseball, played outside and you played outside, right, you played pick up wherever you lived, right, And so that's all changed now, for better or worse. Kids play year round, Yeah, and they've got all kinds of training and all kinds of
stuff online that they can replicate. And you know, like now I was watching some stuff this morning and I sent something to my son, you know, about, oh here's a little hack for when you're playing in a game didn't exist. And so the skill level the NBA is night and day different than twenty years ago, and that that's really changed things a lot.
I feel like, and this is not a not to any of the current players that I don't personally know them, but I feel like the skill levels highers have never been.
But I feel like the IQ was lacking a little.
Bit because it's so much one on one training and by myself and dribbling, and you see guys off the ball, do not how to play off the ball and not to cut, not a screen and play for sure.
They're just waiting for the ball, right the ball. And that's a lot of what we have to work on. You know. I don't know that the IQ is because we try to focus stile. Maybe yeah, the style is different, right because everybody's got to be able to hopefully create and definitely shoot. And if everybody can definitely shoot, what do they want to do?
Right?
They want to shoot, you know. So I think that's where the game has changed a lot.
Last five years, we've had international MVPs and obviously that looks to the growth of the game worldwide. Thoughts on just kind of the global expansion.
Of David Stern. David Stern David Stern and I, you know, I used to question it because like back when I first got in the league, he'd be like, China, China, China. I'm like, there's no money in China. There's no money in China, right, so I've still got to be there and we'll be around the world. Make this a global sport. And I'm like, David, we make we don't have an We don't make enough to pay a minimum player, like not even half a minimum. He was right, I was wrong, Right,
He's gonna like you just wait. And so China grew, Now, Africa is growing, Europe obviously continues to grow, India their building. It's a global sport where like we're the first or second rank sport in these countries where you just would not imagine basketball is being played. And that's to the credit to David Stern. And it's not going to stop. Now the train has left the station. The Olympics. Now you're seeing teams that you know are really high quality.
It's not like the USA has got all the best players anymore, and it's going to change. Thoughts on the upcoming TV deal, that's a great question, man. I think this next one will be good. I don't think it'll be as long as the last one. I don't think it'll be ten years. I think it could be shorter.
I don't I don't know. They don't tell me. But I'm worried about the next one after that, because if we don't get into the streamers right, it makes sense for the streamers like Amazon and ESPN, Disney to want to work with us long term because we help reduce churn. But that's not a sure thing. That's not a sure thing at all, because I think when people forget, you know, we said, okay, the team's worth billions. Teams are worth billions.
People are playing billions. People forget, Like when you guys were in the cap was like flat, right, it was just like forty million to fifty million from two thousand when I bought the team, And there were years where it was down, you know. I remember when we got your kids sitting there saying, dude, the cap went down, right, I got less money to spend now. And then in twenty ten, remember New Orleans, no one would buy it.
The league had to take it over. And so I'm not saying it's going to be like that, but the point is it's not automatic that everything always gets better, right. You know, interest rates are way up. The stock market isn't blowing up, right when interest rates are up, that hurts the That makes it harder to invest in broadcasting everything. And then you add to that that old school television
is dying, right and streaming is taking over. So old school television, linear TV, cable satellite needs us right now because we pull better ratings. Right, Because what's really changed is like and we see it with Shark Tank and other things. I do. Like, it used to be you knew that what shows were coming on ABC, CBS and NBC, right there was the big you know, this big show, that big show. Now all the big show's going to streaming except for Shark tingk all the big shows going
Friday night on ABC. All the big shows go to streaming, right and so, and they're not going to linear television. So it's all sports on linear television. That's good in the short term, but it's not sustainable in the long term. So it's gonna be really interesting to see. I think this deal from you know, from again, they don't tell me shit, but this deal will be good. But the next one is the one I'm worried about in season tournament. You know, my first thought was why right? And then
my second thought was why not? Okay, okay, why not right? What's the downside? Right? You know? I was like, I agree with your first one. I'm like, what's the point, right? But if it gets somebody excited, and you're gonna have a championship game in Vegas and you can bring people in, bring sponsors in, and bring advertisers in and all that kind of stuff, and it gives you something other than the All Star Game to pimp out. So I'm like, Okay, let's just see what happens and works in soccer, so
it's worth trying. There's no downside.
I liked a lot of people didn't like the play, and I liked the playing because I just thought it brought more excitement.
Yeah, for surely faster for sure, as I did come from soccer. Yes, yeah, because they do it in soccer all the time, so like even the MLS and around Europe they have cups during the year and all that and even European basketball's got it. Remember there's like the euro Cup and there's the EuroLeague and they have different tournament. You've got, you know, a league that's just Spain the league, you know, so they do that stuff all the time.
For someone who's very in touch with just fans, players, community, how do you feel like the fan experience will change in the next ten to twenty years.
And when it comes to basketball, that's a great question too. You guys are ripping these out there, you know, guys, good job producers here. So there's a bunch of different levels there. One we talked about television, right, Like you know, we grew up. You love the teams that your parents loved right wherever, what city you were in. You know, I go to Pittsburgh, it was Steelers, Penguins, Pirates, right,
there wasn't an NBA team come down here. It's Cowboys, Rangers, let's go Rangers, make closest shit out one game, one game, you know, the Stars, the MAVs, and so you just automatically love those teams. But now my son is like, you know, and it's about the players, all about the player more than the team, right, And so so now we have to realize that teenagers are getting all their
MBA from from social media. And that's when I when I'm you know, talking to board governors meetings, I'm like, that's where we got to go get the money because TikTok and YouTube and Instagram they're killing it off of us, like on old school. Like I was talking to somebody like, well,
why does the NFL kill you on television? Because television viewers are older, right, the average age you know is sixty five seventy seventy five now, and that those people are not on social media, whereas we dominate the NBA dominates the NFL more on social media than the NFL dominates us on television, right, And so that means we've got to stay closer to kids on social to really
keep them connected to us. And that's a lot more work, and it changes all the time because our fourteen year olds are different than the fourteen year olds of ten years ago, and it's going to be different than at four ten year olds of ten years from now, and so that's going to change how we connect to fans and then getting them into the arena, then I don't think is going to change as much like there's more digital, the screens are bigger, right, people are gambling. That changes
a bunch. But when you come to a game. I was just having this conversation with our people last week, it's got to be more like a wedding, right, where when you walk in, everybody's got to be hype about what's going on. Right, there's a unique energy when you walk into a game. What makes it different than watching the game is the energy you feel when you walk in. You guys feel it right when the crowd's there. You know the difference between the joint where the crowd is
rocking and the music getting them going. And so I don't think that changes because that's what makes going to a game special. When that ball is in the air at the end of the game and you're screaming and yelling or everything stops because you're like that Lucas shot, right, everything stops and then the whole place erupts, you know, and if that's a game winner, you're hugging people you've never seen before. Yeah, that you know, you don't ever
want that to change. That's what makes sports special. But everything else is going to change.
Yeah, we crossed past a few times two thousand and three, yeah, and San San Antonio seven with the Warriors.
Even in four.
I just told him I came here with the Hawks at thirty six in the first half.
I remember we got an ass whip though. Yep, we got though.
But two thousand and three, you remember those finals San Antonio when.
Dirk was out? Oh yeah, fuck yeah, it killed me.
Tell me I we we was talking about it. You think the series different, Dirk doesn't get hurt.
Yeah, because I even say that, and I was for sure because remember we were up Nick Fanelso went off ni Oh my god, Parker getting the business again. Yeah, I mean he went off forty and now she was good, Finn was good, and we were up against you guys. We were down three two, and we were up in the going into the fourth quarter, and Steve Kerr just went off and won the series for you guys. Wanted for you guys. No, if we had Dirk, you know,
because it would have been different. It would have been different, right, We.
Probably would have been a seven game series, sure, for sure. During that time. What is what what was your assessment of Tim Duncan.
Oh he was a man, right, I mean, obviously I'm a Dirk back and forth. You know t d was, you know, mister the big fundamental right, and there was nothing flashy about him. And you know he had his own way of talking ship that you know that I appreciate.
Yeah, he was telling us about that right, the one or two line too late, two words too.
Late, nice try, nice try, right, Dirk said that ship coming back, right, Dirk like circus, just a circus. You you'll talk to Dirk and he'll tell you all that shit more than I can. But yeah, not having Dirk, but you know, just the respect that we had because of the going back and forth and finally being you all in two thousand and six, finally and probably one of the best series ever. I remember talking to Avery, who was our coach at the time, I'm like, it's
like a fucking war. Like there was like no rest for the weary at all. Every game was a beastly battle. And who knows that in that case of TD hadn't gotten hurt going into the overtime, it might have been because at that point Sagana Job dominated. If TD was hurt and Sagana Job came in to play center for the overtime, it just could have been trouble. How how much did you hate us in O seven? Get it out? But I also had one of the best moments as an owner, ban right in Golden State. So we're playing
you guys. Obviously we were the favorites. We had a great year, but you guys had crushed during the season. You guys would be we felt good. Yeah, you should have, right, But two things, right, two things That was the Tim Donahey here, no question right. So here's something you probably don't know. There was a game you all played against the Bulls and you guys had Andrew Brons right, and it was a game that ended up going into overtime.
Bidrons is in the defensive three right, sitting there, Tim donaghe reaches out, pushes them out of the paint, literally pushes him out of the paint instead of calling D three. Now, it was a tie game if it was d if and if they had called that D three, right, Ben Gordon goes to the line, right, eighty percent free throw shooter makes that three. Now, you guys got a foul,
and that's you guys just barely made it in. If he calls that the other way, you don't make it into the playoffs a period, all period, all right, So that's that was number one. We had. We had questions by it. When he was on us oude. He threw us out.
He threw us out you yeah, not us you and he was he threw man beat out in the playoffs game too, yeah.
Me and he threw us a Watch that guy.
I walked you to the back and put a talent front of his face because he was and he was cussing everybody out. So I wasn't out the game, but I just walked because you know, you can exit right behind our bench. I had a talent front of Jack's face, so he didn't get us in. No more trump walking.
Wait. But so then here's the fun part. Even though we lost. Now was brutal back in in the arena right every time I walked in, like so guy to be out of the court warming up before the game. I would come through the tunnel, and the minute I stepped on the court, everybody was going, cube bin sucks, Cube bin sucks. I walk out. They stop. I walked back in sucks in Golden State. It happened. It happens in San Antonio and happened to go, which I love because I walk out, see if they do it again.
I walk in. They were watching for him, you guys looking around. What the hell is going on? And it what happened in San Antonio too, Like because I sit right on the bench, right behind the bench, and I'd get the Cuban sucks right, So I'd wait until TD was at the free throw line at the end of the game, and I'd stand up and they started and he's looking around throw line. What's going on?
Yeah, Nelly was so ready for that. He had us so prepared. I've never seen him like and everyone else thought he pretty much after we won that, it was like.
He checked out, checked out?
What is I mean we we would hear a little bit about it. What was the issue if you can speak about it between Nelly and either the organization or Nelly and you, because there.
Was he was like I said, he it fell apart on the dirt stuff right, Because I was like Nelly, you know, the doctor say he could play so well. I had that injury, you know, the same injury. I'm like, Nelly, it's not a little different. Yeah, things have changed. Well, I'm like, okay, And that was it. Really, that's it. That's wheah.
Now that we're not sitting in the locker room smoking cigarettes making beers at halftime like that was doing.
You know, it's got different doctors and stuff, going to back up to six, you guys go up to nothing. You guys are just killing me with all this. It's just this one area, this one area.
The rest is.
The rest is you and Dallas celebration.
But up two excuse me two? Oh uh? D Wade goes on a run that we get s okay, so talk to us about this. So I remember standing up behind the bench we're up to oh, we're game three in Miami and it's the third quarter and we're up like fourteen, and I remember thinking to myself, we might sweep these motherfuckers, right and right then Donna's has them steps in front of somebody gets a break away and they start coming back. And then this is when we had Damp and there was a play like a couple
of possessions. Later, Shack literally pushes Damp out of the way, pushes They call it on Damp, and I'm going nuts, like what the is going on here? Shock even crazier hits two free throws. Shit, and then you know, you know, Bennett Salvador just turned d Wade. I mean, he shot more free throws in one game than we did the whole series, which was just insane, and you had t Mac and other people saying, Okay, something's up with this, and obviously donnahe Now do I think it was fixed.
I don't know if it was fixed, but I certainly think that all the fifty to fifty calls we're not going.
To You have to think about it because if he was in the game, he had some type of influence because that's what he was on.
So you have to think that, yeah, what is this is?
I mean, obviously this could be a little touchy, but you know, coming from someone who is so keen on everything that involves the game, we had a hard time believing that it could be just one person, especially when kind of what was going on wasn't that And we're not trying to point no finger to start no ship, But to me.
I really think he was the only one that gambled on the games, right, And but the rest of the us were human, right, I mean, and so when they got pissed to me, like some of them liked me, and I could tell the ones who liked me because I was trying to change things and we're like, this ship needs to change. And there were others that just hated me. Yeah, it against your team. Yeah, and they would hold it and you know how that works.
Yeah, yeah, any truth. We had Paul Pierce on our show and he told us he was considering the one time he considered leaving Boston was trying to come to you guys, and.
We traded for Paul Pierce. We were on the trade call for Paul Pierce. Now it wasn't oh seven because we had tried to trade. It was later in his career. I forget which year. It was, maybe on nine, but we had We were on the trade call and it was a three way with Boston, Atlanta, and US. And we had told Atlanta, were you know what the deal was going to be, but we need it was with Boston and we get on the trade call and Atlanta says, no,
you got to throw in the first round. Some of the A I forget, all the other pieces I forget, but it was Paul Pierce coming to us. It was done. It was done, and they said you have to throw in another first, and we didn't have another first to.
Throw around the same time you were doing Dancing with the Stars.
Yes, sir, talk to us about that twinkle toes. Yeah, I'm good to go back mark Cuban dancing. I'm telling you I got some skills. I'll surprise you all for sure. That was fun. That was the scariest thing I've ever done, by the way. Interesting. Yeah. So yeah, doing a live ballroom dancing in front of twenty two million people. It
was like, oh, it was insane. But I know where you're going because it was the same time I was talking to the Lakers about Kobe and there was this dude who was a PA called His name was Elvis, right, and he kept on because we were shooting in l A and he said, Kobe's the beast, Kobe's you know, it's all Kobe, all Kobe, all the Lakers, all Lakers. And I'm like, hey, Elvis, guess what. I'm talking to the Lakers right this second, right here, and we're close
to doing something for Kobe. And I literally thought we had something done. And Kobe had to go convince doctor Buss that this was going to be a good deal and Plinka, who was his agent, but it could happen. But Kobe, you know, Mitch Kupchak talked him out of it, and I thought it was done.
Because I remember too they were talking about he was There was some Clipper talk too, and the Clippers were going to build a facilla or the stadium out in Orange County, form and everything.
And he was ready to go too. He was just ready to get out of there. All this shit with him in Shack was a mess, and so he was ready to go, but just didn't happen.
Any cool stories or you have with Kobe or.
Yeah, I mean Kobe and I talked more after he retired business. Yeah, it was all business stuff, right. I would text him and like literally, you know, there'll be times we'd be both watching a game or something and text back and forth, but just talking business. Yeah.
That was the one thing we found interesting when we talked to him, when we were talking to them before the last interview we did with him, He's just like, you know, this last twenty years, I don't want people to remember him by that, Like, watch out for this next twenty years.
Right, And I would tell Him'm like, now you're on my turf, bro, you know you really go then come on, right.
A lot of tough stuff happening on that journey to twenty eleven. To me, that was one of the greatest journeys to get there beat a lot of good teams. Talk to us about that journey. You guys end up beating the Big three with bron Dy, Wade and Bosh. But that was a hell of a road.
It was incredible. Like we started that season like twenty nine and five, nobody was beating us. Then then what's his name Koran got hurt and Koran was our number two score and then all of a sudden we didn't have a score or second score, and then Dirk gets hurt, and we go on this road trip in like January and lose six in a row and get obliterated. So as we had no Kuran, even Roddy Bouboah, who's a guy who is really coming on, was hurt, and so
we were struggling. And we get to the playoffs and literally, you know, we were playing Portland and it was they were favored over us and we were the higher seed, and so we were playing playing LaMarcus and Brandon Roy and that grew and we win the first two games. Here we go up twenty something there in the third game and Brandon Roy puts on the last show he ever put on. I mean, the dude was super skilled, but you know, with his knees and just comes back
and beats a single handily and we lose. I think we lose the next game and then come back and fortunately close it out. But that having our you know, just being destroyed like that by Portland instead of putting us down really like had it helped us figure it out and I think we wore them down, won that series.
Goes smacked us, Yes, swept us, beat the dogs out of us.
That was insane because I remember sitting there going Slakers, coming back to back, back to backs, and everybody, no one gave us a chance. And so we go there and playing in in your court and you no, where did it open up? We were the highest. Yeah, So we played here first and had to come from behind twice, right, and came from behind, and then we go there and
what was that? That was the the Corey Brewer game I think where we were down like fifteen and Corey Brewer just went off and no, no, we started there because we closed it closed. Yeah JJ. Yeah, So we go there and we come down from behind both games and as I'm walking on, I go to Jack Nicholson, who sits right by the visitors, like you need tickets or anything, and Dallas, you just let me know. He goes, We're coming back. Don't worry about it. I'll see you
back here. Then we get to game four, we win game through, get to game four and we can't miss. We're up like twenty something that half to like nine in the first half. And I told my buddy, who sits next to me, he's always sat next month, like, if you touch me and wake me up out of this ship, I'm going to beat the ship out of you because this is a dream and I don't want
to wake up. And then buying them towards the end, right, And then Jerry West even called me after that, and he goes, you know that's just not you know, Laker basketball, right, It's like yeah, and JD doesn't care. JJ is tough dude.
And then a young OKC and then we.
Went, yeah, that whole crew kind of like the Clippers, this year's Clipper team back then except for Kad right, and they were they were a tough squad, but they beat us the first game, I think, and then we won the rest. Yeah.
And then in that finals, what did Tyson say? Someone hit the shot in front of d Wade hit the shot in front of the bench and kind of rubbed it in.
And then you got fifteen. Yeah, and he looks at us and you know, he does this and this and all the ship and she turned on the light. No. And then what people don't know is like that they won the first game, and then that second game when we're in Miami halftime, that's the same game. They're up whatever fifteen or whatever, and what's his name? Oh my god,
I'm facing fucking the GM. Pat Riley Kim pat Riley says to me at halftime is I'm walking through because you know you had to walk through it the middle park right there. He goes, not long enough, not strong enough. Mark, they said to you, We're just too quick and too too long. I'm like, I didn't say anything bad. It's pat Riley, right, I'm not going to disrespect him. I'm like, okay. And then we come back and.
Then interesting, yeah, interesting.
And then cool part because Mickey Errson is cool too. I like Mickey a lot. And he goes, you know, we close it out and we're getting the trophy down in Miami and I see Mickey shakes my hand. He goes, oh, the irony, right, because we were supposed to be supposed to bet him two thousand and six and then they were supposed to kill us in twenty eleven. Crazy how that works.
Obviously, a ton of accomplishments in the business world. Lord, does that eleven championship rank for you?
Oh, I've got Larry O'Brien in my office, therapy in the face every single day, right. You know. The good news is it was amazing. The bad news is it's been twelve fucking years, right, you know, and so you know it's like, yeah, I went out with the hottest girl in high school. Right, That don't do any good? Right, So so now it's frustrating. But I think we're on a good path here.
I don't know if you remember this, but twenty fourteen recalled I was your coach and he was doing TV in the summertime. He came down to San Antonio. He was like, I'm going to go back to Mark because I want you to come to Dallas.
Do you remember that? Oh? Yeah, for sure, Yeah, a couple times because you had Dan Fagan Rest in peace Dan. Yeah, and Dan always always like what about Jack always working? And Dan and RiPP were close to.
And so that's but actually that's how I got paid in Indiana through Dany Rick.
So since we're talking about what could it would have been, uh DeAndre Jordan's situation.
And then you end up getting them a couple of years later.
But that was the fiasta because I remember talking to you on the phone about it, and and they put the full court press on him. They went out to uh the Clipper, the Clipper corps went out to uh see him, to see him and didn't let him out until he changed. But DJ told me he was coming to you. No, DJ told me.
He was coming. Danny was coming his agent right, And I remember we just sat in it was a hotel in Houston. We were in the lobby and there was dude named Steve who was Deandre's money guy, who was like, I thought this thing was done. And the weird part was the dude who was bringing us coffee and everything. You know Beliza that played in the league. It was his brother. It was just like this weirdship. But we couldn't get a hold of DJ. He just went radio silent.
And then you know, the rest is history. And you know, DJ made the choice. He made, that's up to him. Now he's got a ring and so he can talk ship and do whatever he wants.
That was an interesting time one of year. Any anything that we may have slipped our mind, your best funniest viral moment court side when it comes to refts.
You remember how we met.
Was it the thing in Sacramento?
Yeah? Basketball?
Yeah, yeah, So we played and we went on and partied that night too.
Had a good time. Yeah, good time. Yeah.
So anything with refs or April, that's still historic.
Right. So our guy, our marketing GUYT Fitzgerald said, Mark, we want to do this April Fool's joke, and we want you We've already checked it with the refs and they're cool with it. We're bringing a fake reff and you're gonna get into a fight with them. And so we told everybody. We told you know, we told the team, we told Nelly, even told Del Harris, and I'm like, okay, cool, this is gonna be hysterical because this is when I'm yelling and screaming and everybody thinks it could be real.
And so the timeout happens, we're playing New Orleans. The timeout happens, and I see the fake ref come out, and he walks over and start talking and start talking, start, then it gets real animated. Then I push him and I can just hear twenty thousand people going nuts, right
because they didn't realize it was a fake. And then we started wrestling and everything, and Del Harris is like in shocked, is like you forgot the memo, right, And so then Evan A. Shmeier can like separate us and we starts, you know, cracking up and be April Fols Evan Shmeier Jersey one.
Something we found really interesting, you know, obviously because I lost my mom the cancer. When you went into the luxury tax with Muggsy Bogus and give a three year situation when his mom was going through that just kind of speaks to who you are as a man, always beg and bigger than basketball. But can you speak to that.
I don't remember the whole story, honestly. It was like my first year, okay, yeah, and we traded for Muggsy and he was like, I can't report, and you know, and his contract wasn't fully guaranteed, and I just guaranteed it. That's big.
You are someone who really likes to get former players back involved in your organization, to name a few, said Mike Filmy, Sean Marion Rowando black Men. What's your philosophy behind that?
So that's another interesting story. Like when I first got into the league, they were like, yeah, you were in the nineties, right, you played, Yeah, so you knew. There were like three or four coaches, right, and there were no development coaches whatsoever. None. And I get to the MAVs, I'm like, this is insane, right, we spend more training people on software than we do supporting development of players.
And so I go to Nelle, I'm like, every former mav get fifteen of them, because you know, former players always want to get back into the game, right. I'm like, we're not really going to pay, and we'll pay them like twenty five grand, but they can come travel with us, be on the court before a game, you know, more than Wilie. You know, was our first true head of development and stuff. And the rest of owners hate it,
right because players loved it. Right. They always had somebody to rebound, somebody to work with them, some develop them. And then all of a sudden, other teams realize we're winning, right, and this shit's working. Our players are getting better at a whole lot faster paced than their players, and so that kind of started it, and that changed the whole league.
Like I still have guys come up to me that our head of player development and other teams and like thank me twenty some years later because there were no player development. And then we took it even one step further where we got a bunch of interns that are
just on the court all the time. Right, So instead of having the development coaches come back in, you know, don't work with the players, but have somebody interns that can like run plays and just you know, run through things just to help them understand the game, you know. And then beyond that, you know the guys who really contributed whatever they want, right, So when Tricks wants to do something, yes, TC wants to come back and work, Yes, Dirk obviously to go whatever he wants for sure, and
so all that stuff, we're just down with whatever. You know, you got to support I love it.
Brief stint when you first got the team, Dennis Rodman, Yeah, ten days? Was what was that like? And did he really stay with you or is that just urban legend.
No, it's true. He had lost his driver's license. And so I have a I have a guest house behind my house. I'm like, just stay there, I can take you. It was funny. I loved that, right. He was just and he would come up to my house and he would just sit there watching cartoons all day for real, you know. Or he's sneak Carmen Electra through the back door back to the guest house. But he was a
cool dude, right. But you know, we had a team vote because we couldn't rebound at all, and we're like, well, he's a rebounder and he needs a job, and the guys Nelly had the guys vote on they said yes, and I never We're playing sack one game and he was supposed to guard Chris Webber and now he's like guard Chris Chris Webber and instead of guarding him, he just pointed at seaweb and see what, Boom, hits a jumper. Bet you can't hit that again? Boom And the other
guys like what going on? Yeah, that was the end of it. So let me just tell you I learned more from Dennis Rodman about PR and marketing than I learned in any NBA class, anything I've ever done. The man was a master of marketing. Interesting, like he knew,
Like we'd go place he was still super hot. Then we go someplace and there'd just be masses of people that were just excited to see him, and you know, he'd be like, Okay, you just got to keep on refreshing and coming up with new stuff and letting people know you're going to be there. And so him and Paris Hilton are my two like marketing and pr Googles. But Dr d Rod was like a machine. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Interesting twenty twenty posted a photo on Instagram of Delonte West. Can you share your connection with him? And yeah, first try to help.
He played first with for a year and we knew he was bipolar. And it was during the pandemic that someone sent me a video of him panhandling at a corner in North Dallas and I figured out where it was and so I went and got him. I mean, I mean I would have done the same thing for
any player. It wasn't just it was Delante or we had a special relationship and it was like you was I was just and so I put him in my car and got him a hotel, got his mom's number and told her what's going on, and said, okay, let's just get you some help. And so we took him down to Rebound that that Jason runs, and we thought, okay, he was on the path. Jason saying, this stuff's working. He's in Florida, right, He's doing all this stuff he's
supposed to do. He's doing these you know, events and stuff you know that are supposed to help him rehab. And then he just took off. And then we're like, okay, it's not unusual for somebody to have a relapse. Whatever it's it's a hard process. Let's go get him again. And so Jason Williams goes out and finds him. We get him again, and I set him up again. White chocolate Jason Williams, No, no, no Jersey. Jason went through his own ship and so we set him up again,
put him in Rebound in Florida. Takes the stuff, throws it over the fence, gone done. His mom would be like, one more time, I can't, I can't, can't.
We were for the Big Three and that was my first time seeing it. I seen him that's when we are. That's when that's when it actually hit the internet. We were for Big Three, and we remember leaving the Big Three, and that's when I was like, God, he hasn't and what what what? I respected you so much for doing it, But what killed me was how many people that you played, how many teammates that you can play with that don't have the heart to reach out to you.
Know, they do though, they do, Like I heard from a bunch of his teammates, right from Saint Joe to you know, guys in the league don't want he just you know, he wasn't registering. It's just he has a sickness, right, he's by polar and you know, I think he wants it, you know, and I think part of it is just you know, he's getting still gets pressure from his family, you know, to I mean I was hearing from his family. He's thirty nine years old, you know, all the shit
he's gone through. Oh he can still play. No, he needed to save his life. He couldn't. He couldn't make it. And that's what I would say with the three right right, which is yeah, it's tough, right and so and then he no showed the Big Three. Yeah, because you guys, you guys are ready. He could have gotten paid, right, drafted you guys, you guys were ready just to help him. Somebody was gonna draft him just to give him a job, right, exactly, right, exactly,
And so you know he didn't show there. And it's just like all lots of guys wanted to help him, he just couldn't help himself. If you're out there, man, were sending love to you. Bro. Since we on it, what's your take on Big Three? I mean, I like it, but it's a tough business, yep. You know, like if you go back and look like during the lockout in the nineties when Patrick, you and everybody tried to put on a traveling show, right, it was impossible for them
to sell tickets, right, It's hard to sell tickets. It's hard to sell to anything. And so I mean, I've known Jeff Kwantwitz for twenty some years, super smart guy, Cube, super smart, both sharp business guys, and I you know, it's it's just going to be hard because there's no there's no anchor for it, right, you guys going out there and watch you play like I've gone to the games,
right and it's fun right now. I like to see the guys and everything, and you get good crowds, but it's hard to get the revenue from those tickets too. What's that consistence crowds? It's hard to get right. Sometimes it's like, oh shit, you know, people are like, we helped. We tried to, Like when you guys came here, we tried to do all the everything. Yeah, we showed up. Rick was there, you know, I was there. You know, we always try to help. But it's just it's just
a tough business. And you know, if you look at like the TBT, the basketball tournament was winner take all, right. I talked to those guys too, and they're about break even, right because people have to pay to enter, right, and they have the games where they know they're going to get the biggest crowds, right, And so is there something where it could be a winner take all type thing? And it's just because you guys want to get paid because it's a physical toll there, and it's a catch
twenty two. How do you generate enough revenue to get the guys paid enough to go through all the all the things you have to do to stay in shape and play. I don't have a good answer, you know, and hopefully you know, TV will help because you guys are broadcast, but there's just not a lot of money there.
And even with tvt TV, TS transferruning football, they're gonna start doing football, turm.
Soccer, yeah, yeah, soccer, yeah, because I told them they should do soccer right, because they make their money the same way pickleball makes their money, right by pickleball doesn't make their money by people coming to watch the pro
pickleball players. They make their money because every amateur thinks of the world's greatest pick a ball player, every soccer player that ever played in college and every they still want to compete, and so they pay all the entry fees and so to play in the pickleball amateur it's like golf where they have an open, right, all those people pay their money to compete. And that's the difference versus the Big Three TBT they all pay entry fees.
TBT Soccer they all pay entry fees. You know, pickleball amateur open, they all pay entry fees. That's where the money is made. Interesting, right, so like maybe they do a thing where you do you have an open that gets to play the big three winner or gets to play Big three and you make money that way because you know how guys are, right, everybody thinks they can compete, right, everybody thinks they you know, they would have been the player, right only if if right cost plus drugs. Yeah. Thanks.
I think that was something beautiful because I know so many of my people, you know, especially where me and my little brother from in our city, A lot of people died of us growing up, not being able to afford medicine, not being able to have just just the bare minimum things. So to be to to create something where people can't get their medicines at the affordable price, what was the thought into that process?
Just that right? Care about people? Yeah, I mean it's crazy rocking science right about people. Yeah, and it's an easy business. We buy drugs, we sell drugs, right, but we'll be familiar with that too. Yeah, A little different, little different, Oh my god, not going to go there. But you guys don't know where I grew up, man,
I can tell you talking about. But yeah, in this day and age, that people you know, have to choose between their rent, their daycare, wealthy food or their medications, right, is insane And a big part of The reason why that shit happens is because there's these big companies that are just like, let's just squeeze wherever we can. And so what we decided is we're going to create costplus Drugs dot Com. And what's going to be different than
all the other ones. If you go to cost plus Drugs dot Com, know something you know and you put in the name of the medici medication that is prescribed by your doctor, right, and you put it in there, you'll see what our cost is. You'll see that we market up fifteen percent, and you'll see what we're charging for the mail order side or where you can pick it up and do it locally. Right. But it's all transparent because before us, if you think about what happens,
like you've had prescribed medications. You go to the doctor and you say, okay, you need to take you know this maxicilin, right, and the next question out of their mouth is, okay, what pharmacy do you use? And then they send it to the pharmacy and you get there, you have no idea what it costs. And if you don't have insurance where you have a high deductible, it's
scary as shit. You know, we've all heard stories about people being in the pharmacy and somebody in front of us can't afford their meds because they didn't know what it was going to cost. So by only marketing up fifteen percent, our prices are like dramatically lower. And it's cool, you know, you talk about being able to help people. I'm used to people coming up to me because of Shark Tank, used to people coming up because of mass.
Now people are like wherever I'm at, hugging me, rying right because you know, and I get stories all the time, like Isaiah Thomas. We have a mutual friend from Indiana where we both went to school, right older idea Thomas not number four, And so he called me up because we have a mutual friend who lost his insurance and this kid was in a car accident and just paralyzed. And this drug, Droxadopa was going to be one thousand dollars every three months, and I'm like, we don't carry it,
but let me check. Turns out we could carry it. We go out and get it sixty one dollars a month. Crazy man, God, I mean I can tell you a story after story, like people who like need a matnet which is like a crazy Oh my got chemotherapy drugs like down from two thousand to twenty six dollars, right, I mean, because you know, when you walk in and you need this drug to survive, you pay whatever you got to pay and they see you coming, right. But
we've changed all that changed it completely. Now you know, they're using our website to see what the real price is and so like, no, I'm not going to pay that, I'll go to cost plus. And so this just changed the game. So it's been fun, it's it's exciting to be part of that. That's beautiful. You know how many times as a kid.
Growing and where we where we grew up that our grandparents or somebody eldy're telling us, baby, can't you grab my medicine?
Can you start grab my medicine for you? Because they couldn't afford it.
Yep, they asking somebody of one of they is somebody that's stopping and grab their medicine.
I heard that too many times in my life.
That's dope just renewed for season fifteen. Yeah, talk to us about that. The business behind at the entertainment factor, do you guys actually make money off some of these investments.
Yeah, so you know this is our fifteenth year. Next year, sixteenth year is going to be my last year.
So this is a more year ago breaking news.
Yeah, shoes up, Yeah, right, it's time, right, But I love it because it sends the message of your American dream is alive and well, like you guys are entrepreneurs. You guys know what it takes to start a business. You guys have been through it. Okay, you know, investing this, investing this from other people. Now you start this and
you run it. And I feel like, in doing Shark Tank all these years, we've trained a generation of entrepreneurs, multiple generations of entrepreneurs that if somebody can come from Iowa or Sacramento wherever and show up on the carpet on Shark Tank and show their business and get a deal, that's going to inspire generations of kids, right, And that's what happens. Right. So now we got people coming on. Yeah, I watched you when you were ten years when I
was ten years old, right, fifteen years ago. I'm like, fuck, but we're helping them, right, And you know, I've invested in I don't even know how many hundreds of companies and on a cash basis, I'm down a little bit. But on a marked market meeting, the companies are still
in operation to do. I'm way up. Like I've got this company, Beatbox Beverage, that I bought a third of the company for a million dollars and I've been diluted some, but they just did a raise at two hundred million, right, dude, wipes if you've ever seen them, right, I gave them I don't even remember, like two hundred and fifty grand for twenty percent of the company. They're doing fifty million dollars a year. They'll do one hundred million dollars in sales.
They're killing it. So I've got all these companies that are killing it, but it's not you know, they're not sold yet or anything. So on a marked to market basis, I'm up ten. Next.
That's dope your infatus on the show for kind of sniffing.
Out the bullshit. Yeah, for sure.
Anything you look at before they even start talking, body language, eye contact.
Just listen to them, right, you can just tell you know, and body language matters because the harder they have to try to sell, the worst to deal, right, because like you guys don't have to sell this right, good, guys, it sells itself right. Guys know, they know what it's about. They know what you guys are about, and you connect or you don't, right, And when someone walks in on a shark tank, you can tell it to trying too hard or I have this rule. The longer the backstory,
the worse to deal. Meaning the minute you start telling me your how hard it was for you, it's hard for every motherfucking entrepreneur. Right, I don't need to hear your backstory. Tell me about your business, right, tell me why you're going to be successful, tell me what's different about it. You know how you stand out like you name a podcast, all the smoke you're going to stand out, right,
everybody else tries to avoid you. Guys just took it head on, right, And so that's how you're different, right, And that's what I look for. And I look for ideas where it's like, damn, why didn't I think of that? And you know sometimes I get those deals. But how would you describe your hoop game? My hoop game? Yeah, I play.
It was when since I first seen you warm up before games has always been slow.
So were you up fast? No? About the team when I was in my four I was forty one, right and by the time you saw me, right, yeah, I could play. I play against NBA players all the time. Right now, I'm not good enough for you know, athletic enough to like play play, but you could put me on a court anywhere anytime and wouldn't embarrass myself. So for league right now, you'll kill I'm sixty five mother years old.
Yeah, sixteen up, I would kill it was sixty yeah, yeah, man a compliment.
Yeah, I take that. It was sixty yeah, forty enough. I can stand in the corner and make shots. Right. But like you were talking about, like yesterday, I played with my son and I couldn't walk for two days, right, you know. And but I've been getting back in shape and.
So yeah, you and talk shit to you like my kids do. Hell yes, everything. Yeah, but you have done three times and that.
Yeah, yeah, because it takes me a while. He always beats me the first game, right, I take it to him. I did not know you was in your sixties, yeah for sure. Yeah, so now it's just a lot more painful than it used to be. But like where I still play today, you know, it was back in the day. It was like the only court where there were runs, right, that was open. And so I played against Karl Malone, Avery Johnson, Derek Harper and Matrick Johnson, all these guys.
And I'm not saying like I taught them anything, right, not at all with them. Yeah, I'm just hooping, right, I'm not embarrassing myself, and I'm just passing me the ball, right for a reason. I'm for a reason now, I'm hoping for a reason. Right, Yeah, magic stuff shooting that ship. Right, He's the basketball here that you what you what is? What is it that you have against Elon Munk? I don't have anything against him, right, I think he's fucked up Twitter. But the guy the genius, right, he's like
probably the best entrepreneur of our generation. Right, so I'll give his profits nobody. You can't just say it is dropped. Yeah, for sure you can't. Right, You're just gonna go get shipped unless I'm talking about costplus or putting up props for somebody, you know my because you're just gonna get shipp about everything. It's successible, right, But you know I
drive a Tesla. You know I'm not gonna give I mean, I'll give him his proxy, right, he built some of the you know he's the but you know you can have you know, multiple right, can't win them all. I can't win them all. Are there any owners.
You have like a friendly rivalry or not even a maybe not friendly, just kind of like a riot that you really enjoy beating or going up against.
Not really, I'm not really close to to the other owners. How could you be though? So much different? Yeah, I mean, like you know, the young like I don't know mattis very well. I just said hi to them. The guy, the new guy in Phoenix, you know Ryan, the Ryan Smith, the guy in Utah's cool. We'll talk Walmart will talk some, but it's always just NBA business. It's not like we're just learning out or doing anything. I've never just gone out and hung out. And you know, I got my friends.
You know, I would want to win a championship for you so bad because that's seeing you parted with the team with y'all want.
Man, I know it'll be crazy. That's Rockey seventh figure too, right, let's done, my god, that's Dirk about us going out and having fun.
Definitely, Who is Mark Cuban outside of business and basketball.
Just dad, just a normal dude man, a kid who grew up in Pittsburgh. You know, my best friends are still my high school friends and my college friends. I played rugby and college and those are my guys forever. You know, I'm not out there trying to be cool to anybody. I just, I mean, I'm a lucky motherfucker. Bro. You know, I'm just. You know, when I die, I want to come back as me. That's dope.
That's really you know I said that, Oh he is at all times.
I don't know. When I die, I want to come back as me. I do. Yeah, that's really dope.
Balancing fatherhood and any advice you give your kids, they did. They actually they listened to because I'm.
In the same boat. Oh my god, you your pocket is different, Oh way different. Yes, I'm just talking what this kid is coming with.
I'm talking about in one ear out the other.
Yeah, it doesn't matter why they find things. You know, everybody else kisses your ass. Dad, we're knocking. You know. It's like, I've got a twenty year old daughter, a seventeen year old daughter, and a fourteen year old son. The fourteen year old son is into sports, right, so that's cool. So it'll be like I'll get by the time I look at my phone, I'll have checks. It's Kyrie plain tonight. Right, why didn't we get James Harden Right, we could have made a better deal for James Harden.
You once I took him into the war room on draft night and he was in Evan and Evan right, because we had all these deals that we were doing and everything, and I'd go, Jake, you good with this deal? And I don't know, let me think, yeah, okay, I'm good with that deal. So my fourteen year old I'm close to and it's really easy. My middle daughter's athlete,
the real athlete. She's a rower and she's going on her first trip to She doesn't let me talk about it, but yeah, she's got she's getting getting recruited and everything. And then my oldest is they're all super smart, but yeah, they're they talk. I try, I tell you to do it.
You were running the team one day. N I wouldn't put it through it, right, I wouldn't put them through it because no, no, because you know, he's fourteen, and I've talked to all of them about it, and I don't know, but like I'm sixty five, right, and ten years he's still only twenty four. Yeah, and my oldest is still only thirty. And that's not you know, you're not going to learn it then. Am I going to be eighty five trying to turn it? No? I don't want that to be me, right, So you know, I'll
bring in somebody at some point. But Nico does a great job. Sint Marshall does a great job. Nico's Yeah, he's just changed just dramatically. I love the guy. Sint
Marshall changed just dramatically. And so you know, and it goes back to like what we said about the television side of it, Like if the television doesn't kick in, because I know media, I know digital, I know all that shit cold, right, you got to bring in, you know, some other investors that know like real estate and development, because that's where the money is going to be coming in from potentially, right and definitely you know, you look
at Golden State, how can they afford all it? Because they own everything, right, and they do all the development around there, and you see what Bomber's doing. The money that they see coming in isn't from the local TV deal, right, because Bali's is falling apart. You got to have and I'm not a real estate guy. So it's like I want I just want the manage to win. So if I have to bring in a partner who knows that shit, I'm fine with that. I just want their mams to win.
Speak to the importance of hiring Cynthia Marshall.
She's a beast. She is. She's like, she's smart, she's driven, she understands business, she knows what she doesn't know, and the things she's good as she's great at. You know, I think what people what I'm a big believer in for all my businesses. Let me take a step back. What's missing in almost all businesses this day and age, which really really changed in business is the number one product for every business has got to be trust. Like we talked about costplus drugs. You got to trust us
and we do that through transparency. And I think with trust, you can connect to your customers and to get trust, your customers want your workforce to look like them. It's a representation. Yeah, I mean, it's just like if I see somebody who walks in like me, right, I see someone from Pittsburgh. I know, whatever the doors open for trust. Right, if there's nobody that looks like me, or there's nobody that looks like you or you, it's like, okay, what's up? Right?
But if I see somebody that I can connect to, it may not guarantee trust, but you're at least going to be open to it. And Since gets that. And so when you look at our workforce and you look at how she's trained, and when you look at how she's developed trust among our customers, she gets it. She gets it right. And I wish I had people across all my businesses that I've invested in as smart as her.
And so she's really been a godsend from that perspective because she's good at business and she understands how to build trust. Because I don't care what kind of company, if it's a podcast, no matter what it is. If you don't have trust, you don't have a business.
Before working for you, and probably still is, Nico is probably the most has the most influence of a basketball but under the.
Radar, Oh yeah, anybody, oh, anybody I'm talking about from our era to there, you know to now? Oh yeah, I remember he'd come in, like going back to two thousand and three when he started at Nike right around then, right, and I'd be like, who's this dude, And that's Nico. Not one person has a bad word, not a damn.
Also too, if you got to think you're doing some shit, if you can go by just your just one name, your first.
Name, yeah right, yeah, you know you right, but your last name, it's just Nico, right. No. I love Nico. Man. He's changed, he's changed. He's smart, he gets the work done, and he's prepared. He doesn't wing anything. Man. He calls himself the silent assassin. I love it. I love it.
Well, Mark, we appreciate your time. Before we get you out of here. We got a few quick hitters. It's the first thing to come to mind. Let us know, biggest risk you've ever taken.
Dancing with the stars flop bad, right, Because I'm believe or not, I'm not a big risk taker. Like I come and prepared. I do the work. You know. Bobby and I, the old school coach of Indiana used to the same that he's talking about. He goes, everybody's got the will to win, but it's only those with the will to prepare that win. And that's the way I approach business, Business is the ultimate sport. You compete, you guys know, right, and basketball eighty two games, thirty teams? Right?
How many podcasts are there? Bill? You compete against everybody, and those competitive juice takes over. So I always look at business as the ultimate sport. But you got to be prepared. I'm gonna get to my question, but do you have it? Are your action junkie? Action JUNKI No, I'm terrified of heights man. You can't. Yeah, what's your guilty pleasure? My guilty pleasure is just eating like a pig. But what I like to do just go shoot really yeah, just get shots up, like when I'm stressed. That ball
going through the net. That takes your mind off everything like that. I love it.
Worst piece of advice you've ever heard.
Oh damn, yeah, one more round won't hurt.
Take that as you may. Classic, best piece of advice you've heard.
Be nice, Be nice, And today is the youngest you're ever going to be. Live like it. My dad can tell me that all the time. Yeah. Dallas Mavericks all time, starting five, Jerk Tyson at the Center, Rolando Derek and I'll go with Mark aguire Rolando Blackman. If y'all don't know who he's talking about, he was.
Married to Jenny Jones, right, the lady that was on TV. They used to have the talk show. I think he was, Yeah, it wasn't he.
I don't think his talk show. No, I don't know. He's white. Maybe tripping, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
Most trusted person in your contact list if you need some advice on any type of business.
My wife, really, Yeah, she'll tell me the truth on anything and everything. And then probably no, probably Todd, you know, business business. Probably my partner, Todd Wagner, the guy we did the streaming business with. You know, we grew up in this together, and he'll always tell me the facts. Yeah, he won't need that. Something you wish you were better at jumping? You know I'd done for the first time when I was thirty seven years old. That's dope. Thirty seven years old.
Yeah, childhood crush, Fara facet.
Ooh oh, five dinner guests dead alive?
Oh damn? Ted Turner, Warren Buffett, probably Elon Dirk and fair of facet there you.
Okay, if you could see one guess on all the smoke. Who would it be? But you have to help us get your answer on the show.
Who you know?
You got a hell of a rollerdex too. Yeah, did you hear that last work?
Yeah? The last you guys said Obama on No, I'll tell you my quicker boum to help us get him on the show. We appreciate it. We were in I was in Nico's office with Finn and a bunch of guys and Obama calls me right about a charity thing, you know, at which you'd expect no big deal, right. I'm like, Hey, this is Obama. You know, they're like cool everything, and so hang up. Is only like a two minute conversation. And then I put my phone in
my pocket, and you know, Obama's got a distinct voice. Right, all of a sudden, I heard hello, Hello Buttonal Obama. That's fine, that's fine. I hope you heard that. We need you come on, but Mark, we again.
We want to thank you, obviously for your time, but also I mean for all the great stuff you do across the board. It's not just sports to do. It's life, like you said, you know, being nice to people. You never know who is who, and how you can help people, and I think that the stuff you do in sports and business really helps people's lives. Man, we appreciate you for that.
Well, that's a wrap, Mark Cuban.
You can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the iHeart platform Black Effects.
We'll see y'all next week.