JJ Redick | Ep 47 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

of my favorite humans. Former teammate of mine, good friend of mine, big fan of what he's doing off the court as well. Welcome JJ Reddick. Guys, thank you for having me, Appreciate you for coming on man, appreciate you. I feel the same way back. A funny story like and and it really made me change my thinking period when I because I just you know, JJ, you and most do guys have this like there's that stigma duke guy, and you were the ultimate duke guy. You know, all

time leading score, accolade, a list of accolades, budget. I looked at him like, he just seems like he'd be an asshole, and that's just what I thought. I didn't know anything about you. I never met you teammates, you know, ended up being teammates with you in Orlando, and it just completely flipped my thinking on literally pre judging someone

before I met him. I tell you, like, in two thousand nine, that was really my wake up call because I thought, O, this guy is probably whatever met you, one of the nicest, most humble, hardest working people I've ever met. Man, in this honor to call you a friend, and like I said, have you on the show today? We appreciate you. I appreciate that. Man. I remember when we met too, because it was we were doing Jamir

Nelson's Week in Philadelphia. He would have everybody in August come to come to a Philly and you had just signed with us, and I probably had some preconceived notions of you too, honest. Let's be honest. Talking about first the first night I roll in and I was probably a couple of days late. I'll rolled in and uh. We went to the sushi place in Philly and I was like, Yo, Matt is the coolest dude I've ever met. Like, I was like, right away, I do. I knew. I

knew we'd be Frances and stuff. Man, hey for life. There you go. Well, let's jump right into it. You got a chance to experience the NBA bubble. Um. I liked the safe environment they built. I like that you guys continued to keep the social justice message going and and uh, you know other things that apply to that.

But talk to me about that. Because you were someone you know who obviously were stuck in the bubble for a while, didn't have your kids, didn't have your wife, how did all that kind of mix with going and playing and being away from your family. Yeah, I think being away from the family was the hardest part. Um. You know, it's not it's not really normal to be away from your wife and kids for basically seven weeks, because you know, we had a quarantine for two weeks

in New Orleans. I lived Withdrew holiday when his family stayed in California. So we were together for like two weeks in New Orleans, and then we went to the bubble for five weeks. Just being away from them was really hard. But if you look, I mean, if you look at the at the bubble, it's been an overwhelming success. Look, we've had high level basketball, We've gotten all the way to the finals. There's been no COVID outbreak, not one whatsoever.

You know, we had we had some COVID positives on arrival. Since then, we've had zero knock on wood. Um. And you know, I think the players have shown that we are going to be relentless with our social justice messaging. Some of it I think has been really powerful. Um. And and I'm again I've said this a bunch of times. Man, I'm just I'm proud of my peers. I'm proud of our league and what we've been able to do over

the last few months. The conversation that was going on, you know, inside the bubble, I no UK tell is everything, but with with with me. I see that some people actually didn't want to play at all and some did like was it was it more on the side of just of and not to play off boys, and more on the side of saying, you know what, hey, we gotta go out and play because I message is being heard more while we're playing. There was a few phone calls prior to us going down to Orlando that I

was on. I was on one call on like a Friday or Saturday night in June with with about ninety guys. Um. There were definitely a few media members on the phone too. I don't know how they ended up getting a call in for that, for that zoom call. But you know, we we we talked about this, and there was definitely a group of guys who felt like we shouldn't play, uh, and then there was an overwhelming part of the league felt like this was an opportunity to further messaging, to

to bring more awareness. Look, if we hadn't My my argument to that is like, if we hadn't played, what what is taking over the news cycle? You know, nobody's talking about NBA players if we're not playing. That's not how it works. That's not how it works at all. You know, we're gonna talk about Trump being an idiot the election, and as soon as football starts, that's all anybody cares about. So we're gonna we're gonna have two months in July and August where we control the news cycle.

And I thought, you know, the messaging early on was great. I thought some of the announcements were really really important. You know, the Social Action Fund that that d Wade and Mellow and CPS started, Malcolm Brockden started a family foundation. Um the league announced the partnership with the p A to to basically invest three hundred million dollars in black communities, Like those are real things. Those are things beyond just wearing a T shirt or kneeling, you know, in front

of the flag for the national anthem. Those are real things. Those are things that are gonna have legitimate impacts impact in communities. UM. And then the stuff with voting, I think has been great. I had no prediction for for November three, UM, but I think the messaging that the league has had, that the p A has had, our players have had about just participating in this electoral process

has been really important. And I think, as we saw with the Brianna Taylor case, are elected officials are the people that are making the loss. So we need to get the right elected officials in office to make the laws that reflect what the majority of Americans want. And that's what I talk about. Two When I tell people voting, it's just not on the federal level, because just as

you said, it's on the local and state level. You know, the the a G, the the a D, the judges, the mayor, all these are elected positions that you know, come November three, we have an opportunity to vote on. So that's why I've been so adamant about voting, Like I said, not just on the federal level, but on your local and state level. Hey, can I just interject

real quick? I just want to interject real quick, because I think people have a ton of questions about voting, and and I was literally having this conversation with my friend last night in my kitchen. It's it's one of the fucking most complicated things in the world. And there's so much uncertainty on clarity about all these issues, and that the rules are different state to state. I know you guys are doing a lot of stuff with voting.

I just want to plug one thing real quick. I want to plug votes Save America votes Save America dot com slash registered. There's information on all fifty states. It's a two to three minute process to answer any questions you have about voting and to get yourself registered. It's the easiest thing. My my wife hadn't been registered since we moved to New York a couple of years ago. I wanted to switch where I was registered New York.

I did it the other day. It took two minutes. Like, please, just go vote Save America dot com slash register it's the easiest thing, and we'll definitely put that up to when we air this episode so everyone will know that we appreciate that. With the NBA Playoffs being what they were, UM, very entertaining, very exciting, We're to the finals. Now. You got a chance to play with Jimmy. UM. Talk to us about what it was like playing with him and

then when he left Philly to Miami. Your thoughts, Yeah, well, so I love playing with Jimmy. He's an interesting personality, and I think oftentimes with Jimmy it can rub certain people the wrong way. And and Matt you you and I play with CP, and and they're different personalities. But CP was similar in that way, Like if you didn't get CP, I can see where he would rub you the wrong way. I fucking love playing with CP. I love playing with Jimmy. UM. You know, in my opinion,

I wish we had just ran it back in Philly. UM, But it was clear that they felt like they had to go in a different direction with both you know him and with me. And you know, I don't have horrible moves, both horrible moves, both horrib regrets about my decision last summer. I didn't have regrets. I had an unbelievable time in New Orleans. Clearly, Jimmy has no regrets about you know, his decision, Like it's working. He ended

up in the perfect situation for him. You know, He's an environment that just like promotes everything that he's about and and he can just be himself and become pfortable and and that rubs off because he does have an amazing personality and that just rubs off on everyone else. It's it's been it's been awesome to watch. I give so much love to the Heat on my podcast Everything

is I'm going to Miami Heat in one Like. It's not about that, It's just about as a fan, like, I just appreciate what they've been able to to do. They never tanked, They've always been able to just pivot very quickly and maintain this this winning environment and this winning culture. And when you get the right mix of players and the right mix of personalities that leads to being a championship contender, which they are this year. That's

an interesting the way you put that too. Because Jack has a relationship with Jimmy Butler, and I've only known him as an opponent. I would ask Jack, like what Jimmy was like, because I always kind of wondered sometimes he'd say some crazy ship and I'd see him say some amazing things, and all I've know that he played hard and I he to me, he's probably the most blue collar superstar we have in this league. Jack, what what what is your like? What's your relationship with Jimmy?

That goes back to Houston? Yeah, you know, meet me being a little old and him watching me and me making it. You know, he kind of looked up to me a little bit to the point where we got to the league and I was I was kind of mentor to him because our attitudes and what we approached the game is the same. You know, a lot of people didn't understand me. They said I was this and I was that, you know, but one thing they couldn't

say is I couldn't play basketball. And that was what what me and Jimmy had it had it had it? Uh what's said? We had similar We both loved the game. We both played with a lot of passion, and uh, I see a lot of myself and Jimmy. Jimmy just a lot of way more stronger, way more athletic than me. But you know, the way we proached the game was what we had in common, and it brought us to the point where we have like a brotherhood. Now we talk all the time and I'm one of his biggest fans. Yeah,

you with just just a player's reputation. And you guys know this because because we've all switched teams a number of times, and so you're going into a locker room or a guy gets traded into your locker room, and that guy carries with him whatever whatever the book says that he is right. Yeah, right, And I think as as teammates in the NBA, it's our responsibility to give every guy sort of a fair shot and give every guy a clean slate. And I've tried to do that

throughout my career. I'm glad Matt gave me a chance back at O nine. Glad that gave me a chance. You know, It's funny because, like you know, Jimmy carried with him this reputation from Chicago and from Minnesota, and within two weeks of him being in Philly, I'm like, you know, I just I'm gonna go hang with this guy, like I'm gonna go to every meal on the road. I'm with Jimmy like it's so it's it's interesting how reputation isn't always reality, right, And I think both together,

both of you guys. Because I played with Jack two in in in in l A with the Clippers a quick stop with us for a ten day. I told him about that. You made me say, you made me sell. I had a conversation with you by the watch. I remember walking in the locker room one Dad's men a

new diamond watch. Matt, you know I'm I'm hang too, because I won't everybody he ship my guys j J. He just quietly sits on the side of me and gets explained to me about my watch, what kind of watches I need to have, on how much they cast, on how much my watch I had on one ship I wouldn't sold them all real Shortly after that he's a watch student. It made me feel good because I had I had a watch that he really liked, and I wouldn't sell it to him, and I ended up

losing that bitch. I should have just sold it to him, but he really liked it and I wouldn't sell it to him. I wearing around him all the time and he wanted to buy and I wouldn't sell to him. Then I lost that fucking thing. What you got rid of all your watches though? J J Yeah I did hold on it was Matt. Was that the that was the watch that C Webb gave you? Yeah, I remember that was when I tried to get that watch you

a few times. Yeah, Jack, I sold everything. Man. You ever heard that You ever heard the phrase your possessions shouldn't possess you? Yes? Yes, I got your man with with watches where it was like it was like an all consuming thing. And I mean you guys have both been around me, like I have an obsessive and an addictive personality. When I'm really into something, I just go all out on it. And and it's one of the reasons you know, I've I've had a long basketball career

because that is my my first love. But you know, I got into watch it so hard, man. It was just it was taken up too much of my time, and it got to the point where I'm like, Yo, this is such a this is such a selfish pursuit. You know, It's like no one's getting any enjoyment out of this except me, Like my my wife's not benefiting from this. My kids aren't like my friends aren't like I'm the only person wearing the watches. Yeah, j J J J j J was sleeping with the motherfucker's he

had to get rid of him. Left to him is either her or the watches. Growing up in Rowan, Over, Virginia, when did basketball kick in for you? I would say I became obsessed with it and and like loved it when I was twelve twelve thirteen, so like basically seventh grade, and that was a year that I quit baseball. And I was probably better at baseball truthfully, and I wasn't basketball at the time, but um my dad kind of was just like, you don't have time to do both.

And so growing up like I was, my idols were my older sisters. I've older twin sisters. So when while I was super young, they rode horses competitively, so I taught my you know, I learned how to ride a horse. Then they started playing softball, so I started playing baseball. And then when they were thirteen, they were like six one, so they started playing basketball. They ended up getting a D one ride to a small school in North Carolina

called Campbell. So when they started playing basketball, thirteen. That's why I started playing at eight. And by the time I was twelve or thirteen, I was pretty good. And then I hit a grosbur I broke my wrist three times in six months. And when I my my wrist was broken, I just shot one handed. And from that point on, you know, I was I was a great shooter, and I was I was addicted. And the shooting part of basketball for me is is the drug. I mean,

seeing that ball go through the hoops, it's the drug. Absolutely. Obviously a very decadated high school career, McDonald's All American UH State champions scored forty three points in the championship game. Those are your album Bundy Days recruited you ended up choosing Duke Um. What was it about Duke that that spoke right to you? Buy out Bundy Days? You know you when when he reminisces about his Polk High days. I used to do this in high school and do

that in high school. But you really had the accolades. Yeah, honestly, I mean I I was a Duke fan since I was like eight, since I first started playing basketball, and my first year of basketball was when they had had won their second national championship against UM against UH. I guess it was Michigan that year, Yeah, because they beat Kansas. So they beat Michigan in two And I probably watched that game like twenty times. Somebody had had taped it on VHS at our house and then it ended up

getting taped over by the sound of music. I was fucking passed. I had that game memorized for like two years UM and so it was like by the time I got to high school, man, like, I was getting recruited by a lot of teams, you know, like uv A and and I was from Virginia's UVA was on

the hard and UH Texas, Stanford, Billy Donovan. It was a Florida at the time, and I was really interested in going there, but it was always a situation where if coach k and Duke had made me an offer, like I was gonna go there, you know it was. It was the hardest part for me was saying no to uv A because I did feel some sense of loyalty. My family had lived in Charlottesville for a few years before we moved to run Oake, and you know, I had some friends that were going to go to UVA.

My my best friend in high school was gonna go play baseball and football there. So it was that was the hardest part, was just saying no to them. But going to Duke was it was the dream come true. You know, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't really, I didn't really bad and I it was like, you have a chance to come. Here's your you know, here's your offer. And then like three days later I called Coach K

and I said, all right, I'm coming mess dope. I mean, with a rich history at Duke, with all the All Americans and NBA players, they turned out, you know, two time a c C Player of the Year, all time Duke leading score. What was your experience like there, and and tell us about Coach K? What was like playing with him? And what did you learn from him? I feel like I had I had two chapters of my due career and it was, you know, my freshman sophomore year and my junior and senior year. And my first

chapter was really hard. Um. This was the chapter that made Matt Barnes think I was an asshole, and most of America thought I was an asshole. You know, I I you're you're eighteen years old as a freshman and I, you know, I played in at that point, I played in a lot of big games, but it's never in front of fans. And you go on your first road game and it's at Clemson. You're like twelve games into your freshman year, and the entire student section is yelling

profanities at you. I had in college my first two years, I had this like bad acne and shoulder acne. And so you see kids like wearing these mock duke four number four jerseys and they've painted these red dots all over their shoulders and there's signs about your family, and You're like, holy sh it, what did I just sign up for? And you know, I'm not. I'm I'm not

somebody that's gonna like back down from that. So then I sort of started creating this persona on the court, and there was a lot of head bobbing, a lot of trash talking. It was. It was a lot like how Jack played in the NBA UM only I was just it was just a fucking cocky white kid, you know what I mean. So everybody hated me, and you know, by the end of my sophomore year, I was so distraught about it, and I had gone to a really bad place and had had misbehaved, I would say misbehaved.

My sophomore year, I tried to quit. I told my sisters I wanted to quit, like this was December of my sophomore year two because like this, this is not for me. It is not what I signed up for. And I had basically a come to Jesus moment with coach k In in late May of my sophomore year.

I guess it was after my sophomore years, sommer between sophomore junior year, and he sat me down the office and he just said, look, man, he's like, you've been good, like you you know, you were all a sec last year and you were a third team All American, we made the final four. It's like you've been good, but what you're doing isn't good enough. And coach Collins who's now at Northwestern, Chris Collins, Duck collins Son, he said, I'll never forget. He said, the sad thing is we'll

never know how good you can be. And I was like, fuck, that hurts. That hurts. And that summer I had them make me a schedule to the hour. I still have the fucking spreadsheet a in a notebook in my house.

They have me to the hour, you know, eight am, wake up, eight thirty, breakfast, nine am, checking with coach Collins, ten am class And it was down the line, you know, lifting, conditioning, basketball, courtwork, study, hall, lights out, ten pm, and oh I and I had to carry a jug of water around the entire summer. I had to have like a gallon jug of water with me at all times. Was that to replace the beer? Yes,

it was to replace the beer. If you guys want to know stories, I feel like this is the type of podcast where I tell stories my sophomore year but as a walking around campus with the jug of water. So I did that all summer. They didn't let me play USA basketball. They're like, we want you here, we want you in our environment, and man it was. It was the best thing that ever happened for me. I lost like twenty three pounds I was. I was over two fifteen at that time in May of my my

sophomore year. I started my junior year at like one nine two. I was an unbelievable shape. I won every preseason conditioning thing our team had that year, and I got National Player of the Year of my junior year and a CC Player of the Year. We were we were underman squad. We ended up getting a number one seed in the NC Doubly Tournament with won ACC Championship, lost in the sweet sixteen. Like it was. It was absolutely that year was the turning point in my life.

And it was all that that jugga fucking water, That's all it was. Hey, what what? What was the n C n C and Duke Robber was like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna mix two stories here. I'm gonna miss mix two topics. I know Matt wants to hear some stories. So the n C n C double, the Duke QUNC rivalry was was was crazy. There was not nothing else like it. And you know, growing up a Duke fan,

you have such an appreciation for that rivalry. And my first time playing and it was a Duke game at home against UNC my freshman year and the crowd was just different. The buzz, the energy was just different. And you know, looking back, it feels like a Game seven of a playoff game, and that's what a Duke UNC game feels like. My sophomore year, we're playing, We're we're winning, We're gonna win the a CC regular season where the number one team in the country US in Yukon, we're

basically number one or number two the whole season. So we're gonna win the a C C. And it's the night before the Duke qu n C game and it's game days there, so they got like the whole set up out in villets out there. Oh it's popping. So I've been my I'm in my dorm room on West Campus and I have a few friends over. We we have a few beers or whatever, and so we get the idea that we should go down to ski Ville because that's where the party is tonight. It was a

Friday night, it was a Saturday night game. So we go down the air and like I ended up playing beer pong with you and C fans, my roommates running through ski Ville screaming at people, waking them up, making them take shots of Captain Morgan's This is pre cell phones with cameras, you know, this is pre social media, like wet like looking back, like I have got kicked off the team. I would have been a rap. It would have been a rap. How did you play in

that game though? How did you play in that game that night next night. Not great in the first half, not great in the first half, but I had a good second half. I ended up with fifteen points, uh and and made the made the made the game winning defensive play, believe it or not, shot mccannson the dove on a loose ball, got fouled, and and hit the game clinching free throws. Before we transition to the NBA, I wanted to touch on something because you faced it,

you know, starting in college. And that's just the heckling you received, um and I'm sure some of it. You heard white boy this, white boy that, and I know you heard in a lot in the n b A. And you were someone when I talked about when this Montrez Herald and Luca thing came up, when he said something about bitch ass white boy. And I was one to say that that's very commonly said. It's said a lot.

You've probably been called worse. What was your thought when um that happened, Because I I know you're someone that took a lot of it, you know what I mean. And you we used to mess around with you in the locker room, and you know, say you had black

in you and all kinds of different things. So I just wanted to get a perspective, you know, you know, your perspective on that, because there were so many different takes and obviously we're in a heightened sense of awareness of what's going on in the culture, in the country or now. But what was your take on that JJ wanted that ship, he wanted this ship. Yeah, I told you,

JJ's got black. No. Look, when you play high level basketball and you go back to a AU when I was twelve years old, I'm a white guy playing a black guys sport, Like, that's just the best reality. There's nothing like, there's nothing racist about that. The majority of great players in the NBA are black, Okay, majority of great players, and you were black. I was one of the few white dudes on my AU teams being called a bitch as white boys something that I've heard since

I was like twelve or thirteen. I laughed when Montress said, I was like, oh, ship, you know, and I thought it was hilarious. But also get we are in a time, it's a different time at a time right now where everything is exposed and you know, every little thing that's said is just so raw, and the emotions are so high, so you know, you take out the timing and I don't think it's that big of a deal. But I understand.

I understood the reaction to it, whether it was talking heads or people on social media making a big deal of it. I understand. But like, I just don't think there's reverse racism. I just don't think that exists. Um, you can't say there's reverse racism towards white people, like white people in this country have controlled and dominated this country for four hundred years. There's no like, there's no

reverse rate. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. So I I just I would say it's just normal on a basketball court, like to tell somebody a white you know, stupid white boy or bitch ass white boy or punkast white boy, Like it's just normal. I've heard someone call you a bitch ass niggas, So I was one. Like I wondered, like if that's what he would have heard it.

I wondered if if that's what Montrez would have said, what people have tripped out if he said that to Luca instead of calling him a bit chass white Because like I said, I used JJ in this example when I was art because I didn't heard j J called everything. You know what I mean? In JJ sru that off, whether bot or not, I never knew it. He shrugged it off. We always had jokes, you know, running jokes that j J had black and all this kind of stuff.

So I I was interesting for me. I knew when we finally got his hands to have a conversation about it. I wanted your perspective because as I thought, just like I didn't think it was that big of a deal. But obviously that the time and everything is about timing, I think, and you guys have dealt with this too

in your life, like words definitely have power. Um, I would say, as athletes, we we live in a high pressure environment constantly, Like we we we deal with performance anxiety constantly, We deal with ridicule and critique constantly, and so we're constantly barraged with words. And you do you do grow like a like an insensitivity in some ways to the words that are being said to you. And so the Duke experience for me, like you can't say you could someone has said something to me or one

of my family members. You can't say anything else. There's no other words you can use to talk to me. Um. Now when you talk about specifically the N word, right, and the use of that. That's where it's like, well, it's all kind of off limits to white people. Let's let's be honest, like that's not a word that ever should come out of any white person's mouth. You know. That's that's not a that's not a word in an

end of vocabulary, you know. So that's where it's like, there's certain words that carry more weight, and that's that's one of those words. Hey, but I have to say this though, and me being a real one where I grew up in some of the places I hang around, it's some white people that grew up and have the same struggles, grow up with the same problems that black

people grow up in where they become family. And I've heard some white people address black people like that because they're comfortable like that and the same they've they've they've been doing the same struggles growing up, you know what I'm saying. And some of those black people rely on some white people that they grew up with more than they can rely on their whole family. So I've heard some white people say, what's something my nigga to people

that they are related to. You know what I'm saying, but you have to come from these areas to understand that without thinking it's some racist ship. I think, to me, that's a case by case, situation by situation um experience, because you know, in some of the ways, I've heard white people say it didn't get a past and be okay with it. But you know, overall, I definitely agree with you, j J. It's not something that you know

should be in a white person's vocabulary. But you and I. We had a teammate with the Clippers who used to try to get me to say it to him, like nah, man, like nah that ship nah because like yo, like we're brothers. Yeah, okay, me and you were cool, But I say that I say that to you around the wrong person that that word carries. J A. DeAndre was trying to set him up.

I'm not surprised who that was either, j J. Eleventh pick in the draft in two thousand and six, someone who was a college star comes into the league, scrapping and fighting for every minute possible. You're three. You guys run into Lebron. Uh. You guys knock out the Celtics minus KG, knock out the reigning m v P Lebron James and faced Kobe and the Lakers in the finals.

What was that like being on that stage and only your third year removed from college, Man, some of the some of the best memories of my career, to be honest with you. And and that playoff run was really the turning point in my career because I came out of college with a lot of confidence and I got punched in the mouth my first two years. I really got punched in the mouth, and to the point where, you know, that summer between my second and third year,

I had to read like reshape my body. I had to I had to basically redo my my sophomore to junior year back at Duke all over again. And at that point, it was about survival and it was about sticking in the league. And I remember having conversations with my agent that summer like what would what would be options in Europe? Like how does how to work in Russia?

A three year um So that playoff run, you know, I was finally like a rotation player, but there were still some nights where I got those d NP coaches decisions, you know, And that playoff run, Corny League broke his face in game five against Philly in the first round. So I started Game six, which was a closeout game in Philly on the road, and I hit five threes, played really well. Then I started the whole Boston series.

I guarded Ray Allen the whole series and then got to you know, we beat Cleveland, I got to play against Kobe in the finals. So you know that that to me gave me all the confidence like I belonged to the NBA um. You know. I remember distinctly like feeling in the Boston series like okay, like this is it, Like this is what I've been after for three years.

You know, We're we're in Boston and KG was hurt and he's fucking screaming at me the whole game, you know, just obscenities from the bench, and I'm like, this is what I want. This is what I want, you know, all the way over there on the other bench, you know, and a suit like I was for most of my first two years. So that playoff run was was like changing for me. And truthfully, like we all have Kobe stories, and I have I have a couple, like more personal ones,

but but I'm like eighty hopefully I'm still alive. But when I'm like eighty, I'm gonna tell my grandkids, like I guarded Kobe Bryant in the SPA Finals, and yes he got the best of me, but I had some stops. I had some stops. Checking are now are you counting stuffs when you when when he passed the ball or you actually stopped him? Come on, man, come on man,

don't do that. So the following year, you guys, you guys battle l A, fall short to l A. The next season, myself and Vince come, we have a you know, a great season. You play all eighty two games. You know, you were one of our consistent guys night and night out. I've always kind of had a feeling of what happened because you remember, if you remember J j As when

we beat this ship out of Jack in Charlotte. We swept him and beat him, but like thirty a game, and although Jack had a couple of games where you got some points, we just beat the ship out of his team, beat the breaks off and then we destroyed Atlanta and then correct me if I'm wrong it didn't. We go into the West Eastern Conference finals and stand was on some ship like that. You know this is

a very you know, veteran driven team. We're gonna have to switch a little bit of the offense something completely fucking give our offensive facelift, or am I was I just smoking too much weed back then? I think you've always been spoken too much weed. Um. First of all, Game four of the Charlotte series, we're up three. Oh, keep in mind, and it's like the second quarter and Jack makes it three and he's like, I'm still here. I'm still fucking here, going back down the court. I'm like, man,

you asked about to get swept. Man, shut up, Jack, Come on, man, you guys had no change anyway. He's right, right, I thought, Matt. I thought two ten truthfully was the best team that that was the best team I played on the NBA. Even though we made the finals of No. Nine, Our two thousand and ten team was the best team I played on most games up one in the NBA. We had a stretch where we were thirty three and eight to end this season, and then we went eight

know in the playoffs. So we're going to that Boston series on at eight run beating the ship out of people. And I think, as often times happened with really really smart coaches and really detail oriented coaches is that they can get ahead of themselves. So they it was almost like stand adjusted before they had to because then we we beat them. We were in the season series. We beat them three one, right if I'm not mistaken, and so they you know, it was you know, TIBs was

the defensive coordinator. It was all that strong side stuff, guy at the nail week side, pulling all the way over and Stan just felt like it wasn't in our best interest to run like a steady diet of of high picking rolls. So it was what we wanted, like motion, but it was just more like side to side stuff

and looking back like that's how everybody plays now. But it was like an adjustment on the fly we had to make, and it just, you know it, I don't necessarily think that it it fit all of our personnel, if that makes sense. Like for me, it was great because I was like, oh, I don't want to get in a wrestling match with Tony Allen, you know, in a half court setting, but if you get me on the move and the balls movement, okay, now I can attack a club and make a play. So it was

a great series for me. But I think for a lot of our guys, they we hadn't played that way the whole year. So we get down three. Oh, we win a couple of games and then were losing game six, and you know, Matt, I mean, I know you ended up winning one in uh in Golden State, but it's like, you know, for me, I didn't realize that was gonna be my like, you know, ten years later, that was my last chance, you know, the last real chance that I've had. You know, I'm under the assumption, like I know,

we'll be back next year. We had I think we had the best team in the league this year. We'll be back next year. And then Lebron and Chris Bosh and d Way go to Miami and and then as they're transitioning out, so the Warriors come along. And so it's like those two years in Orlando where we had a legit chance to win, like that was our window. Close that window it closed fast, closed, really fast. You know that that I always say that was one of

the most talented teams. We had a legit ten guys that were ready to go to battle the war anytime we were too deep at every position. Stan was one of the best X and those coaches I ever had. But I always felt like, and I remember when Shack would say he would panic and get nervous, and I think you put it more elegantly, obviously, I think he overthought the situation we were adjusting before we even got

into the situation, you know. I mean, we had success against him in the regular season, and we overthought our situation. And uh yeah, you know the word would say though like st stand like there's no there's no perfect coach. I think Stan probably had a bigger impact on my career than any coach I played for Doc as well, because Doc was the first coach who who let me be, you know, who looked at me as a starter and

gave me more of a role in an offense. Um. But but staying, you know, probably the best coach that I played for in the NBA, you know, And and and I hate that I hate that Shaq had to say that about him or you know that we have to sit here and talk about this, because I always did.

I always felt like in a playoff series, I felt like Stan was gonna get us a win, like he was going for smart, he was gonna make an adjustment or come up with a game playing in game three, year game four, or even steal one in game one, like I'm gonna do this and they're not expecting it. Um And and it worked a lot of time, and and he he would always get us a game just because you know, he was so prepared and he worked so hard. He took such responsibility on what he could control,

and and he was great for that. His attention to detail, I've second to none as far as coaches. He was the Only thing I didn't like about Staying was our fucking tape tape shoot arounds with kneepads. I'm like, damn Staying, we can't cruise like we had real Like, bro, we were taped with kneepad didn't shoot around. It was unbelievable. What was Matt like as a teammate. I mean, Matt's just the same guy I'm talking to right now. You know, this is what I was talking earlier about your reputation.

Like when people ask me, like, who are the best teammates you've had in your career, I'm like, Matt Barnes is definitely one of them. He was a great teammate. I think you know, I saw this in Orlando but it was a different group when I got to l A, the way that him and DJ brought everybody together, Like if you were the fifteenth guy on that team, you felt like you were part of that team. It did there there was no there was no like status on

the team plane or status in the locker room. Like they just had an amazing way of making every guy on that team, uh feel feel special. And that was I mean that that was best rare man that that

just doesn't happen a ton in the NBA. And truthfully, like that was a lesson that I learned, and I've taken that with me now as I've gotten older, and you know, then the mentor thing like it's important to just involve everybody because you know, we get so caught up throughout a season, like about what's going on with me, what's going on with me, I'm playing well, I'm playing bad, whatever, And you gotta keep in mind, like there's there's three

or four guys every night that leave that arena pissed, Yeah, pissed because they didn't play or they were they were in a suit or um, you know, they got their run in the first half, but didn't get their run in the second half, and so you know, doing the checking with those guys man is important, and I think DJ and Matt were always were always great about that. We've seen the how important Dwight Howard has been um along, you know, throughout these playoffs for the Lake. I think

for the whole season. I said at the beginning of the season when the Lakers signed to White, I think this was his make or break season. He could be done after this season if he didn't come with the right mindset. But I thought if he came with the right mindset, he'd be a huge asset for the Lakers. And he's Kim with the right mindset. What if you've seen from Dwight now? And can you just remind people, because how fast they forget how fucking amazing Dwight Hard

was when you played with him in Orlando. First ballot Hall of Famer, Yes, no questions. Should have should have won the m v P in two thousand eleven, of the year after you left Matt, But he should have won the year Derek Rose won it. Great story and they were the number one seed. Great story, but Dwight was the most valuable person in basketball the year he

should have won m VP. What I've seen this year is just embracing a role that so many people wanted him to embrace for the last four or five years, and I think it's really hard. We all had good offensive seasons, you know, the three of us, But when you're a superstar and you're used to the ball going through you, I think it's really hard to make that adjustment to being a role player. It's just it's unnatural.

And most of us had to deal with that at an earlier age, right either in college or earlier in our NBA career, and it became about fitting in and maximizing a role and carving out a niche for yourself in the league. But when you start out as the number one guy and then ten twelve years later they're like, we need you to dial it back a little bit, that's hard to do. And so you you've seen it

this year. He's just completely embraced, like I'm gonna defend my ass off, I'm gonna grab every single rebound, I'm gonna set lacious screens. How strong and strong it would be a great teammate. He's been a great How strong is he? People don't understand. That's probably the strongest dude I ran across in my career. Unlike a switch Matt, It's it's impossible to box him out. Yeah, it's impossible. And he literally will toss people aside like a ragdoll. Intridiculous.

I remember one time Quick in Toronto, I think me Vince Jamir and was shot. He was shooting ball from half court like it was nothing on it. He was sitting down and we all he was just doing something. We tried to jump and when I tell you, he threw all of us off like I throw the twins in Ashton off me. I was like, you know, this is crazy. This dude school to He's been built like Superman. Strong Jack had a family emergency he had to tend to j J. It's me and you for the rest

of the way. Um let's pick off where we left off. I'm gonna read some stuff to you, just kind of about your career up to going from Milwaukee to the Clippers. So two thousand nine NBA Finals lost to the Lakers. Two thousand ten loose to Boston in the Eastern Finals first round. Two thousand eleven, who had lost to Atlanta second round, excuse me. Two thousand twelve loose to Indiana thirteen, Orlando goes into a rebuilding mode. You get traded to Milwaukee.

What was it like for the first time in your career being traded? It was an eye opening experience. I think every player when they get drafted, they think they're going to be in one place their whole career, but that that works out for like less than one percent of all players. There's the rare Nick Collison or Udonis has them of the world, but for the most part, even superstars move on. Lebron's played for you know, basically four four teams, so it's like it's really it was unrealistic.

So I look back and I'm like, man, I was there seven years. That's a long time to be in one place. It's run. And when that rebuild first happened, like I was, it was hard for me because you know, I was so used to winning and so used to a certain way that that Stan had done things. And with the young coach, with jacque Von who by the way, let me play like it was the greatest thing that happened to me. Looking back, and and and a young team were you know, we weren't going anywhere. And but

I had said to Rob Hennigan. I had said, like, look, I'm happy. I'm comfortable in Orlando. My wife's happy in Orlando. She you know, she grew up in Florida, her family lives here. So like, I'm cool being being you know, resigning and coming back for the rebuild. I was a little shocked that I got traded um and I knew that it was a possibility, but like there were multiple times where like my agent had been like, yo, you're

good man. Deals off like this deals off, Like you're not You're not gonna get traded um And and so you know, it was a situation where we're in Dallas the day of the deadline. We're flying to Memphis, and we pull up to the airport, to the tarmac. Everybody starts getting off the bus and Jacques was like, hang back, and he was like me, gustavoy on Ish Smith, Josh mc roberts, and I think there was one other guy that was in a separate deal. So it's like five

of us just hanging in the back. So I'm like trying to call my agent and he's like you, I think, I think maybe this Milwaukee thing is back on. And then Rob Hennigan called me at like two fifty nine. Deadline was at three pm. He called me like two nine. It was like, hey, man, you know, I just I just want to keep you the loop, you know, we

we've traded in Milwaukee or whatever. And I was I was, truthfully, I was emotional, man, because you know, Jamir was up there on the playing and and and so many people, all the support staff, everybody I'd spent seven years with, Joe Rogowski and all these people that I'd spent seven years with, and it was a really it was. It was a tough day. But you know, I woke up the next day, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna make

the most of the Milwaukee situation. I had no idea what what I was walking into in that Milwaukee in that Milwaukee situation, but it all ended up working out because, you know, because of that trade, I I got a chance to really be a free agent, and um Doc ended up getting traded as well to to l A. And it was just a perfect, you know, confluence of events that allowed me to get to you know, at the time, just a perfect spot for me, Like it

worked out perfectly. So after leaving Milwaukee, um you had to the Clippers. I get there a year before you. We have a very talented bunch. Dot comes in. You come in. You came in the same year as Doc, right, yeah, yeah, about two weeks after him. Right, So we have it to me. Now, this is another team that I felt had the talent to win a championship. UM. Several reasons

why we didn't. But what was it like coming to l A. So seven years in with Orlando, which you felt like what could be home for the rest of your career? Out of the blue? Go to Milwaukee, which is tough place to go, and Nolwaukee it's not even close to the top five worst NBA cities, don't It's not who would you put in for let's talk about the trip. Who would you put what cities or worst in Milwaukee? I'm confused because they're to me, they're up there.

I will put you on the spot like that. Anyway, Man, you land in l A. And, like you said, Doc was someone who empowered you as a player, like you were one of our key pieces. UM on the offensive end, what was it like being a part of obviously the Clipper franchise that hadn't had much success up to that, point in coming in establishing yourself as a go to guy for our team. No, it was amazing. It was It was like an amazing part of my career because

I was in my prime athletically. I was still I was still able to move all the ways I wanted to move, and and you know I was, I was playing with other great players. And the thing that I think it's overlooked about our group in l A was just how smart everybody was. Like we we got to the point where we didn't really even ever call plays, like even set plays. It was all like hand signals.

And I went to y'all would bullshit with me about different ways to call twenty one when we were called twenty one, and we'd call it, you know whatever, we call it Chester after Chester Author they on President. We call it Dion our prime Time after Dion Sanders. And then one time you all started calling it savage and I had no idea what you were talking about, and you were like, one savage, who the fund is twenty

one savage? But no, And it was like so like the part about that, like the basketball was just great and off the court, you know, I had I had both my kids in l A. I grew up a lot. I mean I went from like a kid to a man in those four years, and it was it was the best. I mean, it was the best four years

that I could have had. I looked back with that with you know, a ton of a ton of love, and my my regret, man, is like we should have won, like one of those first two years, my first two years there, like you know that your last two years there, we should have won. We should have won, like we we we should have won. There's no we were. I think we were probably as good as anyone in fourteen.

I think there's a chance we could have beat Golden State in fifteen, you know, as good as they were, and they were young and coming up like they were kind of before the play. Yeah, we you know, we were. We saw them in our rear view. But we felt like that was our window still. We had maybe your two or three year window. We felt before it was Golden State's term because we knew Golden State was coming.

We had a badly battled in seven games in the fourteen season, um, and we knew they were on our way. In your opinion, what was it, because, like you said, our chemistry on the court was incredible at times. Our chemistry off the court was even better, you know, the way we all hung out, Our wives hung out, our kids hung out, We did stuff as teammates off the court, like we really bonded as not only teammates but friends and brothers. But there was something in there that we

couldn't get over that hump. In your opinion, what do you think it was? Well, I think there's a couple of things. And look, I've talked about this before, and I've used the word pettiness before, petty. You know, there was some pettiness between some of us, probably if you look back, and I've talked to enough of the guys now, like we've all matured even more since then, and we've we all sort of realize what we squandered by being

immature and petty at times. Um. The other part of that is, you know, for whatever reason, I know you've said this before too, but the mental toughness, Um, we just we we would lose that at times. And it doesn't make it didn't It doesn't still make sense to me because I think the makeup of all our guys, like I think CPS a champion. I don't know if CP is gonna win an NBA championship. But in my in my mind, he's a fucking champion. He deserves a championship.

He's that caliber player, he's that caliber of competitor. He's a champion um. And so you know, it's still looking back, it's like it's probably those two things where like you know, if you look at the Okay c series the first year where we're up eleven in Game five, I okay see and and we make some bone headed plays down the stretch and and don't really execute, and and we didn't bounce back from that. You know, we go back to Game six, we're up like nineteen the second quarter,

and and and Kevin Durant goes on a run. We don't bounce back from that. Like you know, the next year when we're when we're in that free fall with Houston, it was just like you could you could feel it happening, you know. But for us to beat but for us to beat the defending champs, you know, I mean, we knocked San Antonio in the first round, like this is

our year. I think Clipper fans had the same feeling that year as they had this year, Like Okay, well, ship, this is this is Clipper, this is the year that we're going to do it, you know. And I really felt like that. And we get up three one against Houston and not really looking ahead, but we know Golden State is waiting on us, and those have kind of been like I don't want to say little brothers because it was never that kind of situation, but they were on the rise and we were kind of the last

team to knock them out of the playoffs. So we get to that situation, Houston sits James and they make a miraculous come back, and like I said, it was just a dominant effect after that that game. How many times have you thought about the fourth quarter of that game? Um, and just a different different plays that have that happened, Josh Smith hitting three threes and Corey Burr hitting a couple of threes and the other thing to think about that, And Blake and I talked about this one time. I

remember that Game seven. I was so tired. I think we underestimate how much that San Antonio series took out of the physical and yeah, exactly, and we didn't have we weren't that deep. So like you look back at those box scores from the Houston series, and it's like thirty nine minutes, forty five minutes, forty two minutes. Our starters were playing heavy minutes. And I just remember that

Game seven. I don't ever get tired, and I remember feeling just exhausted, exhausted coming out of time outs, coming walking back on the floor, and Blake said the same thing to me, Um, But I mean, look, there's no guarant I mean, look it was the Eastern Conference Center or Western Conference. Sent means there's no guarantee we beat Golden State, or there's no guarantee we beat Um. I

guess it was Cleveland in the in the finals. But I certainly think those first two years that I was in l A like those were those were squandered opportunities. And I think we had the personnel. I think we had the right coaches, um to get it done, and it just didn't happen. Man, it just didn't happen. Were you surprised to see that the Clippers decided to go a different direction with Doctors recently? I was. I was

in some ways, Matt, like I would have been. Really as much as much as you're you're like jealous of your your old team's success. At times, you know, you leave a team and there's this period where you're like, man, I really don't want that team to win. You know, I don't I don't want I don't want the Clippers to win. You know that this year for me and Philly, I was conflicted at times because I love I love Joe and Ben, and I love Tobias and I love Brett. But it was like, how do do I want them

to win a championship without me? No, I'd be pissed. But I got to the point with l A where I'm like, yo, like Doc's the last person there from our group, and you know, I think it would have been really cool. And I know Clipper fans like Clipper fans need a championship, like they deserve a championship. They've been so much, And you know, I would have been really truth. I would have been really happen for Doc

and for Steve had that happened. And you know, in many ways, it's it's look, it's it's a results space business. And you know, I thought they were going to at least give Doc one more year and uh and just you know, play next year with with p G and Kauaid and again coming back. Man, it's it's tough for him. And I'm sure you know. I know, I've been on hoopsite the last two days. I know he's got he's got suitors and you know, getting somewhere and one option

is your former team. What was it like? Because I love Philly, I think they I think through management they've taken steps back, starting when they went, uh, you know, decided to give to Bias with all due respect, uh, you know, pick to Bias over Jimmy. If that was the case, I don't know. Let go of you. To me, they had a lot of talent and surrounded you with some dead eye shooters and that's normally the recipe in the NBA to win a championship. What was it like

playing with those two young stars? It was awesome because both of them are are so intelligent and competitive. You know, if you look back at how you were night tonight at twenty three, like they just those guys, to me, like bring it on a consistent basis and they're fun

to be around. I've said this before, but the one consistent in Philly has been personnel in and out, Like they just have a ton of players that come through there and so I think and Joe Joe talked, Joel talked about this on my podcast, Like for him, he's played with I don't even know at this point, hundreds of teammates, you know how, it's just a it's a rotating cast. And so I think in the NBA, we we don't really value continuity as much as we should.

There's no two man, you know, game like Stockton Malone that goes on for fifteen sixteen years, Like we just don't see that anymore. Um, I would love to see them. Those are two young guys, they're both all NBA players, Like I would love to see them figure out a way to bring in a coach that that can get the best out of them and to surround them with with great personnel. Can they win together? Can they win together? Do you feel like those two not bring me back? Man,

they've sucked up? I agree, I completely agree. I agree one percent. And that's what people are like, Like, you're not a star, but you are a glue, consistent guy that knocks down shots, and you need that, especially with those type of with those two players, like you need someone that's going to give some spacing to the floor, someone that comes in and just does his job, not in night out. And that's why I say I blame

a lot of that. It was that Elton Brand that took over as the GM, and he has been making these moves that have kind of been like, hold on, bro, you were a player. What do you Why are you trading away all your shooting? What are you doing? You're you're an inactive player. I'm an active player. So I you know, I think I would just say I think they they probably realized they needed a little more shooting.

The thing with me and Philly though, Like it wasn't it wasn't just about the shooting, you know, it was a leadership. Have you look like that you need you need people in the locker room like you just need those guys and U and I'm I'm looking I'm friends Like I literally was texting with with with Ben and Joe the other day, so like that, there's so much of this is you know, we don't consider the relationship part of it as much as we should and we need.

It's unfortunate, man, And I've said this before, you know, and talking about our days of the Clippers, like it changed after you left, you know, you left after two fifteen, Like our team. Our team wasn't the same, the chemistry wasn't the same, the locker room wasn't the same. And I know, look, I know you were older at the time, and you you got you got you know, some coin or whatever. So it's not like one thing or another. But it hurts to lose, like the vocal president, the leadership,

your friend, like those things. Those things hurt in this business. And not enough people talk about that. Man, Like the makeup of a team on the court on paper, with this guy at this position, this guy, that's one thing. But the makeup of the team and how everybody you know coincides and works together, that's that's a whole another thing. And you've got to have the right personalities. Like you said,

that's definitely not talked about enough in today's game. But two thousand nineteen, you signed a two year deal with a new with an up and coming, wanted to me one of the most exciting teams in the game. Um, you get a young obviously young zion fresh out of college and someone who I love, the guy that one most improved brandon Ingram and also get uh, you know Alonzo Ball, what has that experience been like, now you're the old man in the locker room. What is it?

What's that obviously kind of looking not necessarily looking back at your career, but it goes by so fast. Now you're the voice of reason, You're the old man with all the ice on you. What has it been like in that locker room with that team? Man, it's it's it's been great to be honest with you, this year, other than COVID and the bubble, my my actual time in New Orleans was was one of the least stressful,

at least drama filled teams I've ever been on. Um, it's just a bunch of good dudes, man, And when there's when they're good dudes already at one or twenty two, Like I feel like if if you get the right vets around them, you can really have an impact on

their career. And look, that's that's what happened to me. Like, you know, I was very fortunate that I was in great locker rooms in Orlando and we had guys like key On Dueling and Richard Lewis and you like, we had we had Vince, like we had good We had good dudes. Man. So I think you think you think a lot about like your own legacy when you get towards the end of your career, and like what it means, and like how people are gonna remember you, And like

I hope, I hope I was a good teammate. I truthfully, like I hope Nequiel Alexander Walkers, like, yo, that's my guy hoping fifteen years where he's you know, he's finishing up his career and he's doing the same thing to a twenty two year old. He can say, oh, yeah, you know, j J took care of me when I was a rookie. And and those are the things that you really think about when you get older. Um. And I would say this to like man as a visiting player.

You know, you go to New Orleans. You you go, you fly in, you stay at the rich You might walk like a block or two to dinner. You don't ever get to experience what New Orleans really is. New Orleans is a special place, man, It's one of It's one of the most amazing places I've ever been in this country. It's so unique. The people they are just insanely nice and insanely great. And I think that was

eye opening to me. It was so because I didn't know what to expect, because again I had experienced one hotel and like two restaurants and the arena for thirteen years. That's it. And then you, oh, man, they got they got a jazz hall that's opened almost every night. You can go see a brass band play at a random dive bar on Monday. You know, Marty Gros My six year old is like still talking about Marty Grow. That was in February. Knox, what was your favorite thing about

New Orleans? Marty Gras My best day, best day of my life, that best day of my life. Hopefully he didn't get to see some girls doing wild things for beats. There's hold On, there's the Bourbon street party, Grow, and then there's the family or Marty Grow. Yeah, I don't know. You gotta you gotta school of me. I didn't know what. I didn't know what you're showing. Not somewhere town is like, you know, it's a different part of New Orleans. That that what we're talking about with, you know Knox, who

was not out in the streets. Man, Come on, he wasn't throwing beads. Uh drew Holiday one of the most underrated two way players in the game. Uh, talk to me a little bit about him, because he's someone that you just don't hear much of out but he's put together a very solid, solid and one of the most respected players in the game. Drew doesn't ask for or enjoy adulation and attention. He's totally cool, just flying under the radar. He and his family are just incredible people.

His wife, Lauren is is a phenomenal woman. Um, they're they're just you know, his brothers, him, his parents, like they're just they're just leaders. There's just great people. And you know, I think my biggest my two biggest takeaways from my from my year in New Orleans was thank god I got to experience New Orleans and what a special place it was, And thank god I get to be friends with Drew Holiday because like, like you man, like he's somebody in ten years, fifteen years, whatever may be,

like we're still gonna be friends. Manny. He is, He's just an incredible human. He's an incredible human, you know, on the court, like he does so much and he does so much well. And I've talked about this a ton on my podcast. I've talked about with the guests on my podcast, but seeing him guard the ball up close, one on one in person, there's no one that can do what he does. I don't know how he is able to just stay in front of people at the at the level that he can. And it doesn't matter,

like you want to put him on Dame Lillard. Great, great, and like matter like we'll switch from my your kitchen. He'll be like, nah, don't give me help, don't get like he wants that action, and um, yeah, he's just he's just great man. And like again, like another guy like we talked about, you know, having the right mix of guys in the locker room. Like he's just a special dude in the locker room. And he's he's he's just a great teammate. What do you see? Um, god

willing Zion stays healthy? Um, is there a is there a limit you can put on him? Because I don't think we've ever seen anything like him. No, there's not, Like it's it's it's all NBA All Star Hall of Fame,

that's that's his ceiling. Like it's it's he. The thing with Zion is that he is naturally obviously athletic, but naturally skilled, and so when he learns sort of how to play the NBA game, and it's he's gonna adopt like he he doesn't naturally without even really putting the thought and the sort of the preparation that we all learned. Like I didn't do either when I was nineteens. Dude, this guy year five and year six, looking at right now, he's twenty he's twenty ten, and like you said, he's

just playing enough raw instinct and ability and athleticism. It tastes a good four or five years until you understand the NBA game. So once he understands the NBA game, like I said, as long as he stays healthy. And I saw that this year with b I and Brandon, you know, uh to b I in his fourth year, Lonzo in his third year, and you could see that development like where they're thinking the game and where they're they're they're learning like, oh, this is where my advantages.

I can get away with this almost every night and and let me keep going to that. And and so that's like to me, as much as we talk about skill development, that's where really great players, that's where the development happens is in thinking the game. And that's what makes one of our teammates. Chris so great, Like, that's why he can play at the level he can at thirty five is an undersized point guard. It's because he's

so smart and he thinks the game. Old man in the three point podcast, Um, what has that experience been like? Because you started that, you started doing steps in the podcast game in two thousand fifteen, and I don't even know what a podcast was. I remember you interviewed me, I think right after I left the Clippers, and I just like, what what what is this? J J? It's a podcast? And like you've kind of say, you're almost a veteran in the game now obviously just stepping away

and starting your own platform on the way. Congratulations, Like after a good run with The Ringer, what has that experience been like for you? It's been awesome? Man? Um, you know I I I started, uh, I guess like almost five years ago, you know, with with my first podcast with Yahoo, and did three years with The Ringer. Um. Obviously I left on good terms with the Ringer and with Bill. I was very transparent about what we were trying to do in terms of just owning the podcast

and owning the I P and owning the platform. Um. You know, so much of what we're trying to do as players now is is just ownership, you know. It's it's about it's about owning what we do and um. And so it's been fun, but it's been it's been a lot of work. And we're we've been on a two episode streak now for over two months, like where we're doing two episodes a week, and you know, we're doing calls on on IP stuff, on trademarks, on merch you know, so your hands in on all that, all

of it. Man and Tommy, Tommy my my co host and and my partner on this on this venture, uh is obviously on it with me. We're hopefully getting ready to hire someone to help us just with logistics or whatever. But it's fun, man, And like look, we we talk about like you know, being basketball players and and and and simultaneously like being content creators. Like we're I'm doing three hours of content a week, like I never thought I'd be in this situation. The thing with Old Man

in the Three Are Are our new podcast. It's been amazing. It's just the guests that we've gotten and so much of what makes a podcast great, you've got to be a good host or whatever, but you need great guests. And I think because I'm like, I'm not traditional media, and this is how you you and Jack operate to like because y'all are not traditional media. Like Alan Iverson will come on your show, d Way will come on my show, Kevin Durant will come on my show. You know,

left their walls down, left their guards down. We were you know, we're releasing an episode tomorrow with Mellow, So like these are these are people that, like guys don't necessarily get to hear from other than the post game quote or the stuff that they're putting out on their own,

which is all you know, whatever. This is, This is like a real conversation, like we just have just now, and and that's I think what is the most enjoyable thing about podcasting for me is just a long form content you can really dive deep on stuff and uh and get a glimpse into into somebody's psyche, into their inner workings. Like it's it's just fascinating to me. I tell people, like, we've as athletes, we've been trained our whole life to give it all physically and obviously some

mental comes with that. But I think my transition to my post career, having an opportunity to work with ESPN, have an opportunity to work with Showtime, and my heart, this mental exhaustion is a fucking monster, Like I'm finished after you know, I have to host a few podcasts or I have to do a bunch of stuff on ESPN, and it's a whole different kind of tire than On top of that, I still got to chase my kids around. You have to do the same thing, but it's different.

And I have a whole new respect for this lay because I got to do it at the highest level and physically exhaust every think I had in my body as a professional athlete, and now transitioning into this media space, this mental were down in mental exhaustion is just different, and it's like it will literally put you to sleep, Like it's I'm there's some days I'm with you. There's some days I'm i'm I'm like, I'm like grasping for air.

I'm like trying to come up out of the dirt just to get a breath, and and some of that too. I mean, if you're a parent and you're you know, you're an active, involved day to day like I'm with my kids and we're doing stuff. I'm taking them to school, I'm picking up from school, and you're sort of managing that, and then you're managing, you know, for me as as as still an active player, Like you're managing that part

of playing. And then you're also there's this mental factory that happens every day where you're like, all right, you know, I didn't anticipate having to answer twenty emails every single day NonStop for the last two months. Like I didn't anticipate that three four conference calls a week, Like I didn't anticipate that. I thought I was just gonna all right, you know, just give me the gap, I'll do the interview.

And so that part of it actually, as exhausting as it's been, has been super fun because you do feel like becauld you enjoy it, you still enjoy it in your living. You're learning, you're owning it, and you're building it, and it's it's it's it's a total learning process, totally. I've never knew some of this stuff before, and so

it's been it's been really awesome. How do you feel like this this side of obviously podcasting has kind of help you find your footing in your voice, because you know it's no secret you have maybe a couple of years left in the game until you feel like you want to step away, but find your voice post career. But then also find your voice in this social justice space because you've been very adamant and spoken very eloquently

about things that are going on in this country. There's only so much that you can express in a coherent way on Twitter, um and so allowing are using the podcast. You know, even going back to two thousand sixteen, when I talked about uh, Colin Kaepernick, I had Williams he wrote on who was a longtime sports columnist for The New York Times who wrote the book The Forty Million

Dollar Slave talking about professional athletes. Like talked about Kevin Durant leaving the Warriors, then said there was some a little bit of the visc or reaction was tinged in in some form of anger at a black person taking control and ownership of his career. Still stand by that today, Like I've used this platform, I think in a good way because I like my my podcast is not about silly jokes and ship like I'm gonna I'm gonna be dry and sarcastic and we'll probably have a laugh or two.

But like, I want this to be something that you get something out of it. It provides some insight behind the curtain. And absolutely and when all this stuff started happening with whether it was COVID initially, you know, we were we talked a ton about COVID, We talked about some of the mandates and and being serious about that.

Now we're on voting, you know it, so were you And so it gives you an opportunity to speak out and and and and talk in a coherent way where Twitter is just a bunch of people shouting at each other and it's it's not a real platform and it's just an echo chamber. Um. And so you know, I think too, it's like when we had Cuban on the podcast, like I asked them things that he's an independent, he has no party affiliation, and to get his perspective on things.

It was it was great to hear. It was eye opening. I think. I think that's the thing with the podcast is you can constantly learn. Um. When we had Taylor Rooks on the podcast, she said a couple of things that were like I never heard that before. Great I'm

believable in something. Uh yeah, so that's that's That's what I think I've enjoyed the most about it is just you know, as as basketball players, the best basketball players are are students of the game that they're constantly learning, and so as human beings, like, why would we not have the same responsibility, you know, we should be lifelong learners and and the podcast is a great platform to

do that. Absolutely, top five shooters of all time? You can include yourself where you cannot include yourself Jeff Clay Ray, Reggie, Kyle Korver or where are you do you put yourself? And I don't even like talking about yourself? Where do you put your Are you top ten in your opinion? Yeah? I mean, look, you talk about efficiency and volume. I'm top ten, Yes, I'm top ten. I like that your dreams starting line up with players you've played with over

your career. Tough. I'm gonna so all prime, like Prime, Chris p Prime, Prime, everybody, Okay, so Prime, Chris Paul Prime, Vince Carter, oh, Prime, Blake Griffin, Prime, Dwight h Yeah, yeah, that's tough. The Dwighter Joe arguments tough. Um. Then it's like because Chris is so good, I'll just throw Ben Simmons in there. Man. Honestly, I was gonna say Prime Charter, he do, but I'll throw Ben in there. So Ben, Chris Prime, Vince Prime, Blake Prime, Dwight and six man,

no doubt. J. J. Reddick. We appreciate your time, man, Thank you, continued success, Give my best to your family. Good luck next season man. Looking forward to you guys making your your introduction to the playoffs with that young team. And uh, I'll catch up with you my man. Thanks guys, all right, all right, all right, good to see you. All right, that's a wrap all the smoke with our guest JJ Reddick. You can catch this on Showtime Basketball

YouTube and My Heart see you guys next week. This is all a Smoke, a production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime