Jerry Stackhouse | Ep 160 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

Steve Smith just retired. Um I was able to be at the retirement his retirement part and it was awesome, managic to see all the lives he affected. And UH for me to give me an opportunity to play basketball. Coming from where I came from, I didn't think I could reach that high to the high school. So I looked up to him. But you experienced it to and you probably in the top three, maybe top two, all time scorers of the school. I think, yeah, I mean

four the season and we got we was getting after it. Man. Jeff McInnis was probably the main reason that I went to Oak Hill. You know, we played together that summer and he was just begging me this, like, yo, man, come on, we could be might aol to do the same thing. And then taking the high school we wind up both going to North Carolina. But yeah, it was you know, they were going to Hawaii going to Vegas. I was like, yo, man, that that's that sounds like a good trip in high school. So I made the

made the trip my mom. We jumped up in the car and driving up to Oak Hill for the first time. Oh man, we came in on the back road to jack We didn't even come in on the first road, so it was like mountains Lewis gravel and the mountains and everything. But now it was it was a great experience for me, and you know, definitely shout out to to Steve Smith, one of one of the best to ever do it. For sure. What's the day to day

life like for you? Now? Obviously I hear summer League, we'll get into coaching at Vandy, But what's what's your day to day these days? Like right now, I just came to spend some time with my guys. I got. You know, it's good to have a few guys that

you coach this in in the summer League. Now, not only ones that I coached at Vanderbilt and Scotty, you know, Ernie Smith saving league, but a couple of kids that I coached back in grassroots when I had my Stackhouse and Lead and Romelo White's playing with Portland and my Cavers with Phoenix. So it's just good man to see, you know, things come full circle for where they all dreamed to be and for them to finally get that chance. I want to share it with him. So, Scotty, you

had him in the last three years. He came out early, didn't get drafted, picked up by the Lakers. Summer league team has played solid in the summer. What have you seen from Scotty and how was he as as a player under your program? Yeah, he's been doing well. Man. He's a sponge. You know, He's gonna just get better and better. And it's great. He's gonna be around a lot of older guys, you know, betteran guys that know

how to play. And I think he's gonna, you know, he's gonna kind of bring some energy, bring some life. I think that's what they need, you know. And I think that team is kind of happy for d Ham and you know, being able to get that gig. But they're gonna have to inject some a little bit of energy and then hopefully he can bring that to the table. He's you just had to work on his ball security. He can score the basketball, he knows how to play.

He's I mean, he's a son. I mean, obviously I feel like our development was was really good for him. But hell, he's he's the son of a Hall of famer. You know, you know, never take that for granted that you know, he had a lot of those just understanding the knacks of how to play the game. Um before I ever saw you by, no stuff that you came by. And I think he's gonna he's gonna be really good. I'm excited for him. Talk about growing up in Kinston and see what they're like. Man, it was cool. I mean,

I grew up the youngest of eight boys. Will skip my ass whooped, you know what I'm saying that. But it was fun, like my mamma over when my older brother, like probably my third oldest. You know, he just always made things competitive, you know, whether it was you know, getting out in the yard banging with me, and you know what I'm saying, let me win a little bit, and then he tightened up on you a little bit, you know, put you back in your place. But it

was just you know, fun to watch it. I just had my family reunion this this past weekend over the July fourth, and he was still out there with the young kids, you know, saying, playing dodgeball, playing you know, volleyball, whatever, kickball, whatever, that's that's still his thing, man. And that's a lot of where I got my competitives from this, from just being able to wanting to compete against them, want to win, and then just you know, they were always come back.

Because I'm older, it's a big gap between my brothers. Like my mom had me when she was forty five, so I was kind of like an athlet thought. So I had like older brothers, brothers I could go and you know, spend the night with away from and do some things that you know, probably couldn't do it at home, you know, with older bros. But now they definitely taught me the game of mom and dad. Like said, small town, and we got a lot a talent that come from

from that small town. Sandric Maxwell, Brandon Ingram, you know what I'm saying, Just the Reggie Bullock, you know, name at the name that come out of that little town. Who was some of your influence people you looked up to. Man obviously m J. You know, being from North Carolina. Yeah, you know, just you know, had those comparisons coming out of high school. You know, in high school, I was six six. I really wasn't even a guard. I was

a power forward, you know what I'm saying. And and I never really played shooting guard until I got to the NBA. I even played she was a center. I was a power forward on those North Carolina teams. But you know it's just you know, just watching them, seeing send those guys come through North Carolina. I mean I was a big a c C fan, wasn't necessarily a Carolina fan. At first. I watched all of the team. You know, I was Lanny Bias when he was at Maryland.

I was on them when you know Charles shackerfor with that inn, he stayed, I like stayed with Johnny Dawkins and those guys that Duke. I like Duke. So I

just kind love watching basketball. And then as I learned more about Dean Smith and um, you know the players that have come through that program, It's just hard for me to tell him no. You know when you see you know, Sam Perkins and uh m, j James Worthy and all those guys that have come through and learned to you know, learn how to play the game from from him and then go on and have that other success. And you know, like I said, those I really like,

I wore like forty two because of James Worthy. That was like my favorite player when he was with the Lakers. You know, he wore fifty two in North Carolina. But man, just big game James with my guy. Do kids in North Carolina because I know, like growing up it takes a lot of your kids, Like I want to play for the Rockets when I grow up. Like is that like what kids say? I want to go play for North Carolina when I grew up. I want to be at Tall Hill. Well yeah, I mean they're blue blood.

I mean it's like, you know, it's skin where we are and how we're recruiting. It's like you know when those when those teams, kids can love you and say how much they love you and they want to be there and they want the academics, and you know, and then one of those blue bloods come calling you know, and it's just changes it up a little bit, and but you know they've earned the right to do that.

You know, when you had as many guys that have come through there, you know, you know, Vince car Like, so they ain't even you know, once you start those names and you started talking about the next tier with myself or she uh, Vince Antoine. You know, the list goes on and on, and you know of guys that have continued to come and represent that brand really really well. I love it. You know, I'm still a tar heel to the day I die. I love where I'm at.

I love that Vanderbilt and go doors all day, anchor down. But you know I believe that blue for really. I'm North Carolina born bread. We got some imports, but that's where I come from, that soul, that's all. Yeah, Before you end up at Carolina, what was your recruiting process? Like crazy stories, fun stories? It look like you know, I had to I the bag offer to me and

all that, but I was scared of it. Man. I knew for sure if I left North Carolina, all these schools around me in the A c. C. That you know, going out and doing something different, you know, everybody was promising everything. Coach FIfF was the only one that didn't really like, you know, you know, I want a lot of games and um, you know, and I like to win games, so I'm gonna play the guys to help me win. And then that was kind of his message

to me. And they gravitated. You know, I really gravitate to that. You know. It's just that of somebody coming and say, you're gonna play forty minutes. You're gonna jump over all the guys that's been there, Like these guys are gonna do the same thing to me, to the next guy. And but he just kind of put it out there. You know, really I wanted to kind of bring the glory back to be honest, because they had one since like MJ had had left right to like

in the eighties, like eighty two. So it's like, we want to come in Loyd behole. They win it the year right before I come in. But you know, I kept that commitment and whatnot. And then you know, actually she you know, Jay mc all those guys we were coming in and then we was going against those seniors they just wanted and we came in, you know how

we came in swacked all the way out. You know, I'm saying a different, different, probably breed than what they have seen before, you know, kind of you know, brash, you know, a little bit just you know, to talk. You know, he did most of the talking for us, and you know, and then just from a talent standpoint, I think on what you know, she and I brought to the table was just different, you know, coming in and you know, we was trying to dunk everything. That's

that's where it was. But we could shoot, we had a skill set, but for the most part we were trying to put you in that room and trying to protect him. Guinness is one of the best college point guards of all time. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm telling Noine still hadn't had anybody put that thing up there the way that he did on time on target. To talk about on time on target, Yeah, Jeff put that

thing on time on target, man. And it was fun learning from from Coach Smith being able to win at a high level, you know, playing with that type of talent around us. You know, I wouldn't even I had no no thought process of leaving college. Even when I did, I didn't didn't know I was gonna leave at two again. Like I said, Michael Jordan was my role model. I felt like my blueprint was if anything was to leave

after three years, you know. And then it was just like after my freshman years, like I was on the mock draft, like whoa, and then you know, my sophomore year, we have a great year, and um, you know, Coach Smith started calling around, and you know, I think Kevin McHale was at Minnesota at the time and they had the fifth pick, and he's like, if he's there at five, I'm taking him. Went out and worked out for the just only the four teams and four that I didn't

even go to Minnesota. I just worked out with those four teams and Philadelphia snatched me up with the with the third pick in ninety five. Before we get there, we just had she and he was telling us about a summer going into your sophomore year where you and MJ was going at it. She said, what was she words? All I can say was it was going at it and yell. He said. He he said, you said, somebody didn't take school. It wasn't no school, no, no, it's

going at it back and forth. Man. It was just like uh, just to see m J. Man, like, you know, coming coming coming to the gym, and he and everybody's been talked about it. And again, a lot of the hype that I had coming into North Carolina, where being six six ball head from North Carolina, from the eastern coast of North Carolina had had a lot of things that um I did in my state hadn't been done since, you know, since m J. So it was naturally have

those comparisons. But it was more flattering for Meat than anything. But you know, I'm a competitor again, like I said, I I'm young. At said eight boys man, Michael Jordan just another brother to me that I'm trying to She said, I'm not doing it. I'm icing. I'm good, y'all. Go let Mike do that to y'all. She's only one stepped up to the plate, no doubt. I mean, I look forward to the opportunity. And man, I was nervous as hell,

you know what I'm saying. But you know, I got out there and then I said, once I got comfortable, like anything else, you know, I kind of got into my bag a little bit. Driving um you know, he was giving me the jump shot, you know, shoot and

shoot it. You know what I'm saying. I could getting really shoot it like that at that time, and I'm still trying to trying to drive it around him and getting you know, getting there again, trying to use my strength because I was probably about two eighteen to twenty when I was playing it again. Like said, I was power forward and stuff. That was my mindset. But no,

it was it was experienced. I never forget. I mean, over the years and different things, different situations, people try to paint a story of me against Michael Jordan, and that's definitely not the case. Man. I wouldn't be here sitting where I'm at the day without him, you know what I'm saying. Like I say, he say my ask more than one time, probably in the eighth for ninth grade,

you know what I'm saying. I was like, you know, I got an ear ring, you know what I'm saying, went there and I come home, try to sit at the breakfast table sitting one the ear ring, and I finally to my mom like, boy, what you got in your ear? Then, you know, because you know I've come from a religious family, it wasn't about all that. And then um, I you know, called it for a day or so, and then I showed him a picture with Michael Jordan had ever ring on there and it was

all cool. So it's like even with mom, whatever m J did, that was it. So No, it's just you know, over the course of you know, competing and playing against him, man, just you know, with those bulls teams, we all, you know, we wanted wanted to beat him, and then it kind of turned. Um he still hung around a long time that then, and we was able to play together. You know, No,

even before that get a little payback. Before before I played with him in Washington, um so, but not in them to play with him in you know, in Washington. And just from my perspective, you know, at the time, I was ready to at the height in my prime. And but it's m J. M J still you know, in his mind the best in the world, you know what I'm saying. And so we had a little bit of clash there, but now we were still great. I just saw him this past weekend in Nashville and the NASCAR.

You know, you've got the you know, the car racing teams and all that time. So I went in and the Sweden kicked it with him a little bit. Man. He's you know, always whatever you need, young fellow. You know. So it's just good perception and maybe out there on the outside, you know, there's some some animosity between us that's just from being competitive and being you know, in that moment at the time and two thousand three when nobody seeing me at that time, because I said, you know,

I said, you had some things happening. But but you know, Jackie, I'm gonna get thirty. Get thirty, Okay, who go out of me before we get to the NBA back put a little bit your relationship with you know, the late great Dean Smith. What are some some of the things you took from the time you had the two years with him so much? Man, it was just like I didn't really realize, you know who I was, Like again,

we was young, was dumb. He told me, like I was, like I was going to this office one and like, man, you know why ain't playing more? We're killing these guys in practice, you know what I'm saying. He told me, like, you and Brian Reesch need to try to be the best small forward in the country together. And I was like, you know, coach, I feel like I can be the best small forward in the country by myself. You know.

So it's like it's crazy that I was sitting here having this uh this dialogue and I was like, I mean it was up and down that that that fresh year, you know, dealing with all of the lessons that he was trying to teach me. And I was like, man, I you know, I told my mom after one game, you know, during the midseason, I like, I don't know if this is a place for me, and you know, so so I get it with all these kids now it comes full circle. Um, but it's like, you know,

she just that she hurt me out. She listened to my whole you know, whole spill about this and that other. What I'm doing in practice while I shouldn't be playing more him, I'm averaging twelve and eighteen minutes now, so you know, so I feel like I per minute, per minutes per minute, I'm leading the team. But you know, but she told me something man that resonated with me. Is just like, you know, if you start running now. She hurt me out, Like, if you start running now,

You're gonna be running the rest of your life. And that just like so I stuck it out. You know, two weeks later, I'm the most valuable player of the ACC tournaments. Alway's like, man, I guess I always tell people tomorrow of that story is listen to your mom. You know, she she's gonna tell you what's right, you know, And I should have known, like when I when it came to the recruiting trip, I had like Michigan Steve Fisher and came in that morning probably around you know,

around lunchtime. You know, my mom had some doughnuts and some coffees, and Coach Smith was coming in at the you know, the afternoon about two, probably about one fifteen. I started hearing, you know, smelling pork chops frying, you know, cabbage. You know, she had everything she's she said. I didn't even really know she knew who Dean Smith was, but you know, just just that little gesture right there kind of pushed me even more to that direction. They were

about the same age, they really hit it off. But just just learning all of those I mean, most of the stuff, the basis of what I do now is from him. Right. So it's like our defensively keeping the ball out the middle. You know, I'm strictly a no middle team, having a low help come you know, sharing the ball still, you know, moving, you know, moving in motion, playing, you know, rebounding the basketball, getting to the file line, all those things, the analytics side of the basketball. He

was way ahead of the game. Man. He was a math major. I heard it a story that you know, we're like three minutes in the game. You know, he looked up at the score and then wrote it on the paper, you know what the final score was gonna be, and it was exactly what. It was crazy, you know what I'm saying. Just how he could you know, see the possession, see how the game was flowing. Man, we could we all hope to, you know, be able to

to see the game from that perspective. But but I took a lot from him, a lot from a lot of the other coaches that I coached for for two I mean, Avery Johnson was was big in my development. But look at this kind of tree, you know where you know Dean Smith, who you know, Coach Tall, Larry Brown,

Larry Brown, Tall, Gregg Popovitch, Gregg Popovich, Avery Johnson. So it was like, you know, once I had you know, Coach Smith, and then once I got to Avery, when it was like, you know, ten you years later, boom, like all of that stuff came back together. We had such a great synergy and relationship because we've all kind of come from the same thought process of how the game should be played and and and how you should

share the floor with other good players. Two years and n C you make the Pine for the class for the draft? Is that an easy decision to make? Well? It was at the time, man, because my my mom got sick again. I talked about my parents being a little older. My mom had had breast cancer and you know, and I just thought that it was an opportunity too, you know, she not even had to work anymore. You know, I could be able to take care of my family. So it was it was pretty easy decision for me.

I mean again, especially when I knew that I would, you know, going in the top four picks. It just felt like and then she, you know, she left too, you know what I'm saying. He left first, so it's like, are we still going you know, kind of have the same impact, you know, going forward. I didn't know Vince card in Antoine Jameson was gonna be Vince card in Antwine. James said, I might have had to think about one time.

I mean, and Jeff, that's an instant national championship. I still I mean, I think about it again, but like at the time, you don't know then. So it's like, I mean, I gotta, I gotta do this for you know, for my family. And I felt like, you know, she's still with me today, ninety three years old. You know, she's actually in the hospital now, you know, keep her in your prayers, but man, who will um No. So I definitely felt like I made that a great decision

for that alone. And I still still have her in my life. And she's still you know, still on we got Zoom service. She's a pastor. She still gets something, give us a good word, you know, you know, every second Sunday. Man. So it's uh, no secret that I'm here. Man, it ain't for all the great things that I've done, but it's from those prayers and things that she's still sending up for us. That top five, that that that top five Joe Smith, mcdice yourself, she and then kg Uh.

She was just telling me because I was research, you know, doing my study and before you came and I was like, damn, I was like, I didn't know that. Uh uh. Stackhouse went one pick for you to Philly. He's like, man, I was so happy for him because he's like, I felt like I wasn't ready to go home and play there. He's like, I'm so glad stack went third and I went forth because I wasn't mature enough to handle playing

at home. I'm like, damn, that's crazy. Yeah, I mean it was like when you going back to it with the stability or instability that we had in Philadelphia at the time. I wish it might have I would have taken that that that pick behind them, but no, it was. It was great, you know. I mean I was just man going to a situation as a twenty year old. You know, I felt like we supposed to be winning, right I was. You know. So it's like and I was when we were losing, and that's the first time

I ever really lost in my life. You know, I was coming home, I wasn't going out, I wasn't doing nothing. I thought everybody in the street was looking at me like, man, what's what's wrong. I didn't realize that we weren't supposed to be winning. Man, you played with thirty guys and a bunch of them wasn't in the in the NBA, you know, you know, the previous year. So it's like, so those are things that just it helped you to

grow though, and you had to, you know. But the thing about it was just trying to prove that you could play. You You weren't thinking about coming in there, uh other doing anything other than you know, trying to prove that I belonged in this league. And I think that was the first step. And then once you you know, you showed that, that's when you start thinking about winning. And I think that's probably really why a lot of it didn't didn't work out for us and Philly. We

had some talented teams. You know, Derrek Coleman came through, he didn't really want to be there, and then you had the young cats, me and Allen and you know, we're just getting drafted. We're just trying to prove that we can play. We're still getting twenty apiece, but again it's just, you know, we're not winning, and I think ultimately we had to make a decision that, um, you know, we got two scoring guards, we need to try to build his team, and they chose to build it around Allen.

I went to Detroit, had successful run there and but now it's just the nature of this business. How did the Feeling deal come about? Actually, it kind of just fell into place. I mean, I was I was a Nike guy, really, I mean, I wanted Nike to to step up, but I mean I think they're kind of, uh decided they weren't really giving any signature shoes that that year. They still wanted me to come in and wanted me to be in a in a stable of young guys. But you know, Feeling just stepped up. You know,

I had the same representation as grand Hill. You know, when I first came out, I was with Advantages. You know, now it's Octagon, and so they did the deal right before and I was the third pick, so you know, he was the third pick. This was a deal that he got. So it's just natural increase for them to come in and offer me the same, you know, five year deal. Man. It was crazy. I have, you know, more money from the shoe deal than I did from from the contract because we were the very first year

of the rookie rookie salary cap. You know what I'm saying, Like the guys were for us Grant Hill and Big Dog. They signed like, you know, forty million dollars deal. You know, we signed like you know, single single number, single million dollar deal for for for our first deal, we had to prove it. You know, we're going the first groups. There weren't nothing, any nothing was given to us. You had to prove that you're gonna be able to hang around this league. And unfortunately for us, we did. You

get traded. You spoke on it to Detroit. You teamed up a Grant Hill um. For people that don't know. Obviously, injuries deroout his career, but how special was Grant? When Grant was healthy, we ain't got enough time got it was cold, it was cold. It was like, oh, you know, because he he was unselfish man. He was like Lebron from the standpoint of he could handle the basketball. He would looked to make plays for others, but he could he could score at will. He could couldn't really keep

him in front of you, um off the bounce. He could go out and down in the post and play um. And it was probably the only weakness that you probably would say about Grant was probably defensively right was and then at the end of his career. He goes to Phoenix and he becomes a defensive style. So you know, you look at his body at work, man, um, if he if he wouldn't have got hurt. And I think that played a you know, a big part of us kind. I mean, we were on our way, you know what

I'm saying. I think we were probably one of the best tandems in the league behind you know, Scotty and and MJ at the time. But I think some you know, I gotta read this book. I gotta get get this new book and kind of you know, to get the story on why did he really leave? Why did he go to Orlando? But I think, you know, there were some other things and then as far as his wife and some opportunities that he could have the big picture of his family. Um. But you know, man, it was

definitely but it was cool. I had a chance for that one year to really explode, you know what I'm saying, and showed that I could, you know, lead the team, you know, on my own, you know, we um you know, put up you know, almost thirty thirty a game, you know, and hiss acsence. I feel like I had to, you know, take on that that load. But quickly I found out

that I needed more guys. You know I'm saying, I think And so I had my scoring average, you know, Rick Carlisle came in and he was like, Stack, you know, I need you to be a decoy. I mean, everybody's knows that you could score thirty. I need you to take you score twenty five. I'm like, what, you know what I'm saying at first, and then he was like, you know, um, we want to put you in more picking rolls. We know that we're gonna trap you and then you know they're gonna play four on three on

the other side and we're gonna win. And you know, it took a little buying into it, and but you know I bought into it and we did. We went from thirty two and fifty a year that I average, you know, almost thirty to fifty and thirty two when

I average twenty four. So it's so it's like, you know, sometimes uh, you know, less, it's more, yeah, And I think that ultimately, you know, And that's my message again when you talk about all the coaches that I played for, those are situations and stories that I can, you know, reflect back on when I'm talking to a guy about you know, being a little more selfless and and and how we can gain as a whole from from from that approach. I mean, this is something else you could

talk to him about. Players in the two thousand average twenty nine plus shack lebron K, D Kobe, a I, D d way, Tea Mac and yourself. What do you think when you hear that I told you couldn't Nobody stopped me. Already knew, you know, But it's like, man, I already you know I had I had twenty four. I got off the bus talk yeah, when when when this other team gonna happen, and how it's gonna how it's gonna come about. But I was just, man, it was a fun time when you look at those names

and you see your name amongst that. But again, uh, for me, and ultimately to to win that, you know, I had to. I couldn't stay where they were at those numbers. I had to give a little bit. I had to get more cists and ultimately, um, after I left Detroit, um, you know, went to Washington, got to Dallas. You know, I was able to you know, get with Dirk and and and and have probably the best team that ever played on Um there, Uh you really sorry? You know, I mean that was that finals run that

we that that we have. Man, that was by far, you know, and I probably average probably one of the last amount of my year's probably thirteen fourteen coming off off the bench, you know, that was you know, Nellie, that was my my, my, man. I didn't know how we were even gonna kick it. I heard it. I was just kind of passing through. But Nellie is like he came to me, like Stack, you was started, but I can only start five guys. But you're gonna play start of minutes and you're gonna be there at the

end of the game. That's all I need to hear, coach. And then you know, nearly he was uh he gave turn it over to Avery in the year. But man, it was just just fun being able to play with you know, a nice you know, our bench, we were the ones that really first started that bench with Jason Terry and all those guys. We were all coming off the bench, Mike Finley and all those guys they were starting.

But man, can you imagine when practice like the war, when we really used to practice and UN used to beat the first UN and a lot of and a lot of different teams what right, like you know, and and it was just about competitives made the game easy. By the time we got to the games. Uh you know, they were easy because we we were battling in practice every day. Y'all ran into a fun up team and those seven, yes, sir, bring that up. It's two of the fun up guys sitting here right now. But the

one thing I remember I was cutting that y'all ask that. Yeah, he was two motherfucker's were kept going with you and Josh, y'all don't want to that it would be so mad there because I love Stackhouse, but I didn't really know him like that at the time, so I was just kind of this is my first year really rocking links. I'm just look, he's mad as fun. At the end of the game on the best like he got the game six, he came in and hit three threes off the start. Yeah, off the ril. You don't want fighting

back though, yeah, JT. Now now your boys, y'all had him, You ain't had nothing to lose. You and Nellie felt like ship we won that serious didn't give a about the last championship. Wanted he wanted to put he wanted sticking to cueue straight and he knew hell he drafted Dirk. He found him and he told us everything about that and all that man like man put man, put dirt, put his little ass in the basket. Man him. He would not he would not wrestle with the job. Man.

It was that. But if you guys did the hell of a job bet was was unbelievable. J Rich Like I said, I remember Mary, I was meeting him up top everything. But that's that that that has a lot about that team for the tip of that to happen and then come back, how y'all came back, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, Yeah, we had to. Man, it was it was a tough had to make that run. You know that that's sometimes that that gets you to

that next sample. Man, that that that heartache, that that defeat and then you come back and you you make a strong run. The run you guys had against d Wade and oh six. Questionable call. A lot of questionable calls in that series. The people kind of still talk about to this day. What's what's your perspective on it? Yeah, a lot of questionable calls still talk about to this, David, I think it was can't take anything away from the one, and I think a lot of it. To me, I

put it on the format which has since changed. Right again, when you work hard, and you work hard for home court advantage, you shouldn't come back home possibly down you know that two three to format. And again even though those games in the middle were you know, a lot

a lot happened. I got suspended the game for hard file and um, you know, and I was I'm sitting in the you know, you know, sitting in the hotel room, knowing that I could make a difference that we would have went back home, you know, at least up three too, you know, and two of those games, and there was some marginal calls that that went against us, but and then they had kind of the momentum when we came back home, you know, so it was all that shouldn't

shouldn't feel that type of pressure after you had the type of regular season that we had, you know at the going up you know too, oh you know, I mean that's still but but but looking at it, man, we just we got away from the from the game plan. You know what I'm saying, nothing, you know, we know that we wanted to um, you know that he was a rhythm left and we want to get on his right hand, and we didn't do it. And I think and ultimately, you know, that call says, I mean, Dain

had an unbelievable serious. He was great, but you know, he shot probably a few more free throws than he should have. But you know, and one in particular that that that that you know, that basically changed serious. But I'm still you know, I've never been one of the cry of spill. Mick. Well, it is what it is. And you know, we had our opportunities. We didn't see

those opportunities. But they should have changed that format before that year, you know, to two one one one, And I think we are sitting up here and some some company, you know, with some some hardware and some rings. I mean, people don't know how hard it is to get back to You think you gonna get back because you made a nice run, but it's just never never that easy again, and never made it back. A lot of luck goes out, a lot of it. You end up playing eighteen Told

the Seasons. At what point did you decide it was enough? Was it the body or that kind of was pushing you out. No, I thought I could have probably could have played another year. Um, but it was just some other opportunities. I mean, I really got kind of entrenched into the business of basketball understanding. You know, at first, nobody really was caring about the you know, players Association meetings and things like that. We were just running to win that they were gonna pass out to the checks,

you know what I'm saying. And I think we all kind of fell into that trap. And then as I got older and understanding that, um, you know that the players really have a lot of power and understanding that we have to utilize that power. We have to take advantage of it. Unlike the NBA, where they have, um, you know, the same turnover. You know, those guys are there every year. You know, we're like funchible assets. You know, we leave and then there's new guys, and we really

don't you know, maintain that institutional knowledge. You know, we don't give it back to that other group and they have to come and learn it all over again. So it was important for me to try to transition into doing some things with the p a UM and and then I just had an opportunity to to to get into coaching, you know, I mean I was always a guy that gravitated to the young guys. I used to bring the rookies and stay with me when I was in Detroit, just to make sure they got the practice

on time. Um, you know, I would you work out with him, showing them different moves, different things like that, because I didn't feel threatened by younger players. Nothing. That's because I was. That happened to me in Philly, you know, I mean had some old heads that you know, didn't want to show me anything. Then when I mean I was coming off screens getting cracked. You know what I'm saying, because I never chased our screens before. I was a powerfulward.

And now you know, but Verne Max will Man shout out to Burn, I'm hooking up with him later the day. These shows like man, put put your hand on that on his ass, pimp pumpers when he comes you showing pimp, Yeah, you shove him from that screen. They don't know if it's his momentum, yours pimp and that's him. When when

when once he talked mean that it was over. I was running out in Houston and Ray Allen asked into that first role so and so I think just from from that, um, you know, I always felt like I was gonna get back to those guys. I wasn't gonna be one of those bests that then feel like I was gonna share with the young guys because I was threatened by what, you know, what they brought to the table. And I think you know that my final year, my eighteenth year in Brooklyn, you know, Avery brought me in

to be more of a coach. You know, in my mind, you know, I'm saying all the right thing and coached, but you know, I wanted to play right, you know. So as soon as we got out there, and then I'm like, man, it's you know, it's the young dudes, Marshaun Brooks and you know they said they're talented, but they ain't gonna play over me, saying if they're really trying to win. So I got out there and again even in my final year, I was I was contributing. She was in She and Kurt Thomas was in New York.

There was with the Nick. So we used to meet up all the time and just like it was like our victory tour, you know, our last year. And then um, from that, I had an opportunity to um, and I felt like I had to get some separation. I knew that I wanted to coach, but they still kind of we gotta what you got to get that player stink off of you a little bit, so to speak, because they don't really take you serious as long as you're

still playing. But then once you got I did some broadcast and I did XM radio, did some things on the NBA TV to stay close to the game, and then I got an opportunity, um um to you know, start my own AU program. I did really well there um and they asked Adidas asked me to take a team over to Treviso, Italy, and there I was able to get in front of a bunch of gms and for them to see me coach, and you know, Massa

Jerry called me. It was like, we're looking to at a former player too to our staff, and you know, would you be interested in interviewing for the job. I went up interviewed for the job. You know, Dwane Casey hired me. I'm saying learned a lot from case too again, just how the management of you know, a business to professional the details of how to to to go buy your business on the day to day basis from from a coaching standpoint, I was able to see that first hand.

And man, then they asked me to coach the G League. You know, I went down there and first year out, you know, we got it done and wanted chip And next year we went back to the finals again and had an opportunity to actually interview for the for the job.

You know, I thought I had a good shot at getting the Toronto job when they decided to move away from case Um they gave it to Nick Nurse and then I took an assistant job with Memphis for a year, and then Vanderbilt called about, you know, the president of the G League who saw me kind of build and how I went about my business as a team. He got the day d job at at Vanderbilt, and he called me like, you know, we we where we are.

We need your development is huge. They understand how we got out there on the floor and grinded, and that was kind of my message in my interview, and I got the job and kind of the rest is history. That's where I'm at right now. I love to hear it. Quick hitters. Man. First thing to come to mind, let us. Know your U n C starting five could be with you or without you. M hmm, I'm going with Phil Ford for sure. Guy, gotta go with Phil. Uh my first and show h m j Ah, myself, Vince and Cha. No.

I could go a thousand different ways with that. What I mean? I could go with H Kenny, M J Vnce, H, James Worthy and Sam Perkins. Lord. Hello, that's that. That's that second team, a third team. You know, we keep keep going with it. Man, that's just so many guys, you know, Twine that Mr k plus Gordon League. You know what I'm saying. I mean, he's going that that was a bucket, you know. So it's just like, man, so so many guys. One night in Vegas. Keywords right here,

this is key words too. I like to him, all expenses paid, three people that you're gonna kick it with and Vegas, all expenses paid, three people living or I'm going with Muhammad Ali, Malcolm X and Martin Luther King one night and what's that movie? One night in uh in Miami. Yeah, those are the type I just want to get in their mind just a little bit. Ain't worried about kicking it? You know what I'm saying, I got I don't kick it enough to ain't got to

do that. Give me some of those major minds, Yes, sir Early Malcolm X, you might you might partly live. We're gonna kick it a little bit. Yeah, try to be able to play or not be somewhere around, you know, trying to put a little tune together. Speaking of music, one album you can listen to with no skifs uh you Madic? Call Madic. Give me an RB album because people don't know you sing man that one twelve once nice first thing you're doing the morning and the last

thing you do before you go to bed. I'm going straight to the bath from Brown said super Bowl, super Bowl. I'm good for the day. And then the last thing. I don't know. I'm gonna relaxed a little bit. Give me a little night cap. Yeah, shut it down, row Man Ship piece of advice? Should we give you a younger self piece of advice? Man? Just again, probably the same thing that I would. Just just listen, you know

what I'm saying. Listen, listen and be patient. Don't try to try to rush you, don't try to get there too fast. Just just take your time and enjoin and I think, you know, so much about getting to the next thing. Even when he was in high school, it was about getting to college. College is about getting to the pros as pros, about getting becoming an All Star, All Star, about winning the champion, and then it just

just relax and let it happen. So that's what I think I would tell myself that, you know, because I probably was more stressed than than I was towards the you know, the end of my career. Now. You know, people was like, man, you you look younger than you did when you played, and I was like, man, I was,

I had things on my mind. So I just you know, now I could just focus on trying to you know, show other guys, show these young guys that I'm you know, I mean, I got I got great people at Vanderbil there to support me since I've been my a d you know, my chancellor. Man, they see what we're building, you know, and so it's exciting time for us, and we're just ready to um take it to the next level. Man. You know, we took took our lunch for for a

couple of years, and now I got a nucleus. It's fun to watch now I got my my older guys teaching teaching the younger guys, you know, so it's not like we gotta teach everybody. And that's you know, that's that's really refreshing when you can, you know, see those other guys pulling guys off and showing them how we go about our business and how we do things. And so I'm expecting the big things in a huge year for for my guys. If you can have one guest

on All the Smoke, who would it be? But you have to help us get your answer on the show. I probably already had him. Oh man, that's damn. That's that's a tough one, that bro. I gotta I gotta think about that. What I'm saying on the show. He has not Man, he has not Wow. And I know for a fact, and I don't know. I ain't the biggest, but I know my relationship with Mike when I played there, and if I had a chance to look him in his face and ask him come my show, he would

do it. But sending all these message to everybody else, it ain't gonna happen. But I've seen him face to face. I know he would come on the show. People saying Mike ain't come on here. So I'm telling you, trust me. If I got a chance to get Mike face and asked me, he would do it. Mike Reality, y'all think no doubt. That's what I just told you. Man, that's the best thing that you can do. Like I said, a lot of go arounds and in betweens, that ain't gonna happen to the man. And I'm pretty sure he'll

be He'll be sitting here. Well, you heard your first stackhouse because against him. J Man stat Man, We appreciate your time here today, best of luck next to you. We're gonna be checking out for you. Man, continue blessed, appreciate you man, Thank you. Many'll keep doing it. We got our boys coming up. So he's already talked about him, Man, he talked, talked. You know, I do well with former former players kids. So yeah, let's I'll take another one,

thank you man, another two. Yeah, let's just got com Okay, let's get smoke. I had word yeah and big bro get bigger. Yeah. I think I got those peak still old school, a little bit peak for man. Appreciate that these are a media and we need like a yeah, yeah, you're not gonna know what right my mom made like them. No, you know what I'm saying. You're getting back. Going back counts on Showtime Basketball, YouTube, and the heart platform Black Effects. We'll see y'all next week