M hmmm, welcome back all the smoke. Season five. Jack has been a nice three days.
That's the way they ended.
We get a strong three time NBA champ, n C Double A Champ, Finals MVP in nineteen eighty eight Hall of famer, his team was the reason I fell in love with basketball.
A lot to the show. Yeah, James Worthy, appreciate youa what a pleasure, man, appreciate it. I love what you guys are doing. Man, ain't it's honored to be here for real? Thank you?
I mean speak to obviously, the media crossover is prevalent now with former athletes, but you kind of did it and it wasn't as common. You kind of worked your media, you know, your media journey to what you're doing now. But speak to how you're seeing more players kind of cross over now to how important you feel that is.
Yeah, I think it's. Uh, I think it's imperative for those who are interested.
Uh.
You know, I wanted to do radio. You know, they always told me, you know, you have the face for radio. So I was like, I was like, so I was I was like, you know, I thought I could do that. But then coming in coming to Los Angeles, Uh, you know, being in the media, you know, environment and it being
you know, a lot of opportunities. I got an opportunity to, uh to work a game because Stu Lands was working with Chick Hearn and Uh, Stu had to go to a funeral in his hometown, so I replaced him, and Sue Stratton, who was the producer at the time, she says, hey, you know you have a future in this. So every ever since she told me that. That was a year
after I retired. Uh, and then I've always wanted to be in the medias to something exposure like radio or you know, even you know, uh investing in AM radio stations with something I always you know, thought about. So, but being in LA getting exposure, Uh, I sucked at it at the beginning because you know, as an athlete you have the knowledge. But then as you guys know from taping and timing, you know, so it it took me a while. So I worked. I worked at k
CAL nine. I worked for the Seattle SuperSonics with Kevin Collaboro, just trying to get on tape. Uh, yeah, exactly, and the Vancouver UH Grizzlies at the time before they moved to Memphis. So and it's turned out to be a great job. I enjoy what I do. I've gotten really comfortable with it. So yeah, but I love to see guys who are interested in it because they have a lot to convey to an audience. You know, audience just see a lot, but they don't always know why something happened.
And that's where the athlete comes into play.
Showtime Lakers, you guys as a whole has been in the news a lot because of the winning time.
Yeah.
Did you get a chance to watch that? And what were your thoughts if you did?
You know, I haven't watched it in detail sometime i'd be because I said I wasn't going to watch when the first start.
Yeah, so to tell me, so that wasn't cleared by you? What was the written? It was a book written by Peerlman. So you know, players don't really have rights to anything.
You know, when it comes to uh, you know, writing movies and books and things of that nature. So the book was written, and I remember doing a couple of interviews on one interview for the book of several years ago, which turned into a series. Uh. And you know, the Lakers, you know, had their own legacy. Uh, so we were focused on that. But lately every now and I'm going
through the channel. You know, I don't want to stop, but I'll stop because they you know, they presented me, and I wanted to see the guy that was playing me. You know, for for fans who you know, who lived that era and some who didn't, and they like it. You know, sometimes it's a little satire, not always exactly what it. You know, I don't. I really didn't have a problem with it. I didn't really watch it because I lived it. It just looked weird to me to
watch it. And I know how Hollywood is, so you know, I was cool with it. I would have liked to have taken part in it.
It was.
It was. It was a great decade. You know, there was more to it than you know, all the all the crazy stuff. You know, it was Larry and magic. You know, there was a radical part to it. You know, there was a race component to it, you know, the West Coast and Boston. Uh. And I think it could have been much better better, But for those who enjoyed it, you know, it's all good.
I held off watching it because I heard the former players weren't stamping it.
But once I started watching I liked it. I hear the same thing man Strong for y'allah. I watched that.
I think that the guy who played Bird did an excellent job. Man yeah, he for He'll fool you to.
Do the play.
I mean, I thought they got a lot of the guys right as far as like portraying them. You know, they guy to play j.
I thought Kareem was good. You know, I thought Jerry Buss, you know, from what I saw I heard, I mean, it wasn't it wasn't his accurate as I remember, you know, but you know, when you're making a movie, you have to uh you know, uh yeah. So you know, my hats off to him.
Lakers this year kind of made an unexpected run. Last year, I thought that Roblink had a really good summer grabbing some pieces. Thoughts on them this year.
Well, you know, after you know, and I'm not in the moral seasons and more big is I was. I was okay with what they did, considering what they you know, had to go through, had had trade deadline been like December, and they'd had a chance to make some moves early, and you know, and I love Westbrook. Sometimes the chemistry is now what it should be you know, it just didn't work out. But after that, you know, I thought the run that they made to get into the play
in was was pretty amazing. And then Memphis and Golden Stakes, so they're looking to compound on that, you know, picking up I really like Gabe from Miami, uh, you know, and some of the guys, but the key, you know, Austin Rivers, who I think is emerging as a really improved player. Rui. Uh and then Wood who they picked up. Share what you want to about Woods, He's the numbers gallon and so John Yeah, see runs farm, you know.
You know, so I feel that they this is like Lebron's one of his last runs and uh but I think it's it's going to be up to what a D wants to do exactly. Uh. You know, Lebron is Lebron, but it's a d's team and I think it's time for him to uh and I think he understands that. Uh. So, yeah, I feel really good. You know, Golden State's going to be are They're gonna make one more run. I think with the guys of course, Denver, uh, you know, Phoenix
defended with Booker. You never can count them out. So it's gonna be interesting, it's gonna be hot tomorrow.
Get an opportunity to watch bron a lot lately. He passed your former teammate obviously last season as an all time scoring just being able to see him and play with Magic, play with Jordans. What have you seen from him? Obviously a little bit later in his career, but just his body of work and his run during his.
Leader Yeah, his his body at work is uh, is pretty amazing coming out of high school. Uh, you know, college is where you get the repetition of skills and work and you get to do the drills for him to come you know, straight out of high school. Of course. Amazing body and for what he's done, you know, regardless of if he's done it with three teams, he's done it. And uh, he has a formula to longevity. Uh. You know, he's in the he's in the talk of you know, you know, being one of one of the one of
the greatest. I can't say, you know who the greatest is, right, I Mean, if I had to guess, I would have to go with Kareem with his full body of work. I think it's I think it's a full body of work. If you've seen it all, you can make a determination. But Lebron uh, you know, to be uh playing like a twenty some year old dominating the way he has. Of course, the science and the and and and the theory of the game of how you stay in shape
and diet everything, it's changed tremendously. But his his ability to will reminds me of magic. You know, you're comfortable with him on the floor because you knows something it's going to happen. Good an assist guy a score. So I like his body at work, and you know he'll be mentioned in obviously the top three or four.
He's mastered the longevity play.
He's massive. He mastered that better than anybody that I've ever seen in any sport, including golf. When you can play for a long time in golf. But I mean, I mean you look at what you know, what he's been able to do and still able to do. Two pay close attention to details and sacrifice, you know, to keep his body afloat. And they have the will sometimes you know, it's mind of a matter, right, and he has that.
Growing up in Gastonia and North Carolina, I played basketball up the road at Okhill yeah, what do you remember about your childhood?
Man? Childhood was it was there was no exposure, about thirty thousand people, uh from Gaston in and the education was poor. You know, my dad had an eighth grade education. My mom went back to college to get a nursing you know degree later twenty three years after she graduated. So it was it was tough and you don't realize the situation you're in until later. I didn't realize what I had been through until I went to college. When you when you poor young, you don't know you poor.
You just don't know. Well, my mom and dad were home every night, as opposed to some of my neighbors who didn't have that. I mean, I thought we were rich. You know, we had something to eat, biscuits in my lasties, you know, my grandmother lived around the corner, so I you know, I was happy. But you know, as far as the educational system, you know, when I took the
SAT and I was like damn. And then you know, I had reading disabilities and because of the education system, the school system was really corrupt and you know, depending on where you lived. And I went through integration, you know, and and in elementary school. So that was. That was tough. Uh So my childhood was was sheltered, uh not a lot of conversation in my house. My mother was really submissive, my dad was who he was, and I, you know, my childer brothers we grew up and said, we're never
going to be like our dad. You know he was you know, he was never home hardly. You know, we we ended up just lik him. So those cycles, you know, they perpetuate themselves as you get older, and until you able to break those cycles, they will disrupt your life. So I deal with a lot of like mental therapy right now, trying to get guys to focus on don't be ashamed to sit down with the therapist, because I'm sixty two and for the last past fifteen years, I've
been breaking these cycles you know of DNA. You know, you look like your parents. Yeah, you know, you walk around the town and say, oh you so and so son, So you look like them, but you also bring forth a lot of that pain, a lot of that anxiety, you know, uh, resentment, shame, you know, especially you know for a black man who who has dealt and still deals with, you know, systemic racism on a daily basis,
for what you have to deal with. Then you've got to come home and try to, you know, compose yourself when you really don't have, you know, a voice. I didn't have a voice. I got married without a voice, you know what I mean. I didn't have any expression. I just I played ball, you know, girls liked me, you know, but I didn't have I didn't have a voice. I didn't know how to live in that environment. I lived into my thirties like that. So, you know, that
was my childhood. That's what my childhood yielded me. So it's important to kind of grasp those moments. If you can't, I kind of wish that, you know, study hall and pe and high school or in junior high could be replaced not so much with a psychiatrist, but with conversation to kind of help these kids move along, because otherwise you'll bury it, you'll internalize it, explode, and you won't be able to convey it. And yeah, it comes out.
It's gonna come out somewhere drinking, you know whatever. Women, it's gonna come out somehow in a negative way. So we need to we need to deal with that. You know. We go to the barber shop and that's where we get. That's our therapy. But it's okay. You know, I grew up weak. What I'm not going to see no da going to see no they. I've seen our communities in
our community, you know, buck up, you know. So we were taught that, but we need to realize it's okay, man, it's okay to you know, sometimes you have to cry, sometimes you have to get that ship out. That's that's that. That was my childhood. But my child was cool. Nothing to do. Sports, that was it. If you didn't have sports, you were you were going to be either going to the military or depending on your you know, your your education. You you know, some people went to college. But uh,
it was nothing to do but sports. Know, we had no gangs or nothing like that. So you know, if you were caught up, you know, go downtown, try to steal something. There was a lot of that going on. But we had sports, and we had the boys about this. My brothers took me around six grades. They had a league called Gray Why and it was through the y m c A. Through your elementary school at the time was one through six. But the goals were only uh five eight and they had a height limit. I barely
made the height limit. I think it was like five seven into something. I was tall, but I knew I had, you know, some future. In the eighth grade, like in the seventh grade, I was like six feet and from seventh grade to eighth grade, I grew like five. And I was at the boys club. Uh my director, mister Perry, was talking to some high school guys who were athletes and they were football players. And I heard him say, scholarship. You can get a free ride if you get a scholarship.
And I had no idea really what scholarship was all about. And I was like, you can get a free ride to college if you you know, if you're if you're balling. I had two older brothers in college, my mom and dad. We was scuffling put them through school. So that's when I really got interested. Wasn't that good in football baseball? So yeah, start getting busy.
When you hear the name Dean Smith, will comes to mind.
Conscious brother. He was a conscious man. You know. He really used his platform too to enroll you into what was possible in your life. He developed good citizens. And you see that not with Michael and Sam and I and Vince. You see it with all his lettermen who have done well. He took us to play a game with North Carolina State Prison. We went in there and this was in eighty and you know, I wasn't comfortable. I mean, they were looking at us in different ways
than basketball. But he was. He was. He's that kind of guy, you know, he's it didn't matter if you were Michael Jordan or Michael the Tower Boy. So he used his platform very well to kind of prep you for life and keep you humble.
Did he make you feel not only wanted, but like family and your recruiting process.
He's very honest, so you know, and a lot of people don't believe it's when I tell him, But he was strictly by the book. I mean you've been asking mj saym anybody. There was no you know, money or anything involved. But he'd come in and tell your parents. He got to know your parents really well. He promised you three things. She's like, I promise you son and graduated. If he stayed four years, I promise you that you know, he'll go to class. And if he's we require you
to go to the church your first semester. And my mom was sitting over there and I know. I know when she heard that, she was like, damn, that's where he's going. But he was really honest and I always loved him since he bought Charlie Scott was the first black ACC player to come to the ACC, and Coach Smith took a lot of heat. They tried to fire him, They hung him in f g after a game, but he used to take stands like that. Took Charlie Scott the church with him, took him to restaurants in sixty
seven where blacks weren't still allowed. So I knew about him early. I got to go to basketball camp, but I fell in love with guys like Phil Ford, Walter Davis, guys like that, you know. So you know, Mitch cup Check was there, so I was. I was kind of tied in, locked in from like fifteen years old.
Is it is it true that he left w UNC players money for a stake gental when he passed.
Two hundred dollars. Yeah, every letterman that played for him, and I think he was like sticking it to the NCAA. Yeah, I take care of my player. Yeah, find out I'm to do something, you're not gonna be to do anything about it. But and then you know, he used to write personal notes. He'd have his secretary type him up and then at the bottom it would always be ps
and he would write a few lines. So he had he had special special touches like that, and a memory like he wouldn't believe, which was which was sad to see him have dementia at the end of his life. But yeah, he had a memory that it was like amazing.
Everybody talk about MJ's championship shot nineteen eighty three against Georgetown the championship, but you had twenty eight thirteenth seventeen from the field. Why don't talk about that? It was on your shoulders. But what's your take on that? Well, you did, Joe John.
You know, if you watch the the Michael Jordan documentary, it was the Chicago that not the hair movie. I had a statement, you know, Michael came to Carolina tell everybody I was I was better than Michael. Yeah, yeah, you know for about three weeks weeks, for about three weeks, man, I knew he had it. When you're an athlete and you guys are both tough, I watched you. I watched your whole career. You know, when you're when you're tough and you're not going back down from anybody, and you're
gonna take them on. But then when somebody comes along that the fuck is tougher than you, they're like, he was an assassin and he bullied me. He because you know, he's he sought out the best and everything. If you were the best backgamming player in the dorm, he wanted to know. If you were the best card player, he wanted to find out, and he took everything as if he was losing a game seven. Losing just wasn't I
didn't care what it was. He'd break a table if he lost the backgam And so he sought me out, and you know, we practiced two hours, two and a half hours. You guys know how to call practice. Are you ready to get out of there? And he would I'd be walking off the court and he pushed, where you're going, young, young fella, that's what he called me.
So you were junior when he was junior freshman year, and so yeah, you know, he wanted to know and uh, and throughout that year, even though I was, you know, MVP. There were some games against Virginia in the ACC tournament where Michael kept us in the game and some big shots against you know, Ralph Sampson and those guys. And then against Georgetown, we only had really five players against Patrick Ewan and my home boys sleeping floor, and they
were tough. Uh, but Michael hit some big shots and kept us in, you know, I and then at the end of the game, Coach Smith wanted me to be like a decoy, you know. You know, we had we had lost to Indiana the year before Isaiah Thomas and Bobby Knight, so getting back was was special and I wanted to win or lose.
He'd been punching on Mike. I beat, I beat. I would always beat Mike. That's yeah, you know Zeke Zeke fit opinion alone. Man, he had a good career. It was awesome. Uh.
But yeah, man, uh, you know, because you know they expected me to, you know, to take the shot. You know, we run a high low against their zohn. Patrick Ewhan was a beast, and I wanted to win and lose. Because Michael was a freshman. I didn't you know, I didn't know if he had it in his veins. But uh, I was to flash in the mill. Coach Smith didn't call it up like that, but he knew it would
work out that way. We ran our offense properly, So we ran the high low, Sam went down low, I flashed in and three guys collapsed and Michael was wide open. Now he he didn't draw it up like that. But at the end of the time out, you know, when you're walking back on the court, Michael was one the last guys. And I heard Coach Smith kind of if you get it, if you get it clean, looking knock at it, you know, you know what I mean. So and yeah, he knew, he knew Michael had it in
his veins. And yeah, that was the beginning. We called him Mike, Mike Jordan.
Kenny said he had no handle when he came to when he first got there.
No handles, No, not well, Kenny had him. Uh. After I left, Kenny still mad at me because I recruited Kenny. He wanted to play with me and I left after my junior year. He and Brad Dougherty. But yeah, he he didn't have a lot of fundamentals when he came. I think he was a better baseball player coming out of high school. And you know, you've heard the story of him getting cut from his high school team once,
so he had a lot to work on. He had raw talent though, raw talent, but when he got the fundamentals down after his freshman year and he worked at it because we had drill after drills after drills. Whatever his weakness was, he was willing to work on it. And so I can't remember him having uh I mean, back then we ran four corners. There wasn't a twenty four second shot clock his freshman year, so he was okay in that, but I don't remember him ever having the ball handling skills that our guard has.
To possess you n C U n C summer runs.
Yeah, how was that? Lawrence Taylor played and some of those football players and Wool and Jim.
Lawrence Talor was nice.
Yeah, well Lorene Taylor was a beast. You get the rebound, you just move out of the way. Yeah, he was coming. He was coming, but yeah, to pick up games because a lot of guys from Duke came over. That's seven miles apart. We oh yeah, yeah, and willand Jim. But they were like they were like iconic games. You know, you guys probably faded some of the you know games over you la, you know, you don't want to You don't want to lose. So yeah, there was two courts
you always had. But when LT came he was really good player. But yeah, he was a beast.
Do you have any stories of anybody just dominating those run.
I would, you guys trying to remember il would, but I would play. He was from Macon, Georgia, and in nineteen eighty one when we lost Sane Anna, we played Virginia in the semi and he scored thirty seven points. The brother could shoot man when he got hirt. He was like Ray Allen or Dale Ellis. Of course, you know, I only had MJ for about four months, but he dominated willing like the dunks that he threw down in there. A point guard. A lot of people don't remember Jimmy Black.
He was from New York. He was our senior point guard. He was we called at the empty gym theory. You know, he topped forty five on you in a pickup game game. Uh and Sam and Sam Perkins, you know Sam Perkins was Sam Perkins was a beast, a big smooth man.
He was roomy. For a year. We had guys like that, you know, uh the back you know, Uh, well, guys like Gene Banks, you know, Vince Taylor, guys like that would come on from but l t was, he was the guy Shirch and Skin, Schirch and Skin, Seirch and Skin.
Is there a better big three in cottage history than Jordan's Perkins and Worthy?
Uh? There there there they would be mentioned or honorable mention because when you think about some of the some of the the trios that John Wooden had, you know, Duke pass of some Kentucky. But you know, Sam was uh a captain of the eighty four one of the captains of the eighty four Olympic team, and Michael and you know when you think of Power Forward as the center, you don't you know, you don't mention Sam that much.
You think of Tim Duncan, Carmelone. You think, but I would put my boy, and I'm I guess I'm being a little bit biased, but based on his performance and what he could do, I would say, we would we we could, We could play with anybody, no question. You know Kareem without you know back in the day with Lucius Allen and some of those guys, they were but Big Sam could go inside and out and he had to play Ralf Samson and Sam four a lot. Sam.
You know he played against Sam Bouie. He held his own and then of course you know m J so, yeah, i'd be I'd be will him to me too, An put a little money on that.
Uh, you leave after your junior year. Lakers win a championship in eighty two and get a first pick due to a Calves traded me there a few years ago, before any any good pre draft stories. The top three in that draft for yourself, Dominique Wilkers, and Terry Cummings.
Yeah. Man, it was all depending on what Ralph Samson was going to do. If Ralph Samson had come out, that mean Rap would have gone first, Dominique probably would have gone second. Terry Cummins was a beast, and then I would have I don't know where I would have landed, maybe maybe even lower. So I would have stayed. But I knew Jerry West if Raft didn't come, I knew he was interested in me because the Lakers had won two out of three championships already. They had Jamal Wilkes,
Pod McAdoo, you know, Kareem Magic, Norm Nixon. They didn't need a human highlighte man, what they needed was somebody was going to come in and you know, maybe not start, which was unusual for number one a draft pick, and so they needed you know, I guess they were looking
for someone disciplined. Dean's boys were known for that. So when Ralph stayed, I knew I would be the number one pick based on some conversations that I've had with and so yeah, I man, that was that was that was That was awesome.
Uh.
But I remember being kind of not arrogant. I was kind of full of myself because I thought I was pretty good. So I walked into training camp and I'm looking around. You know, it's Kareem Magic, you know, as Jamal wilk was still still high because I was looking for a spot. You know, I'm like, fuck this, I'm starting this year Norm Nixon, you know. Sudden at the corner of mine, see Kurt Ramis come in. I had on these coke bottled glasses tape in the middle. He
had all these apparatuses on his ship. He smelled like bend gay shitt. He ruther all this. He had this cream called four or five four back in the day. It's like horse on me. Shit. He had all that shit. I was faster. I was quick. So we started practice. Now I think power forward in college. Kirk was a power forward in the NBA. We started practice and within twenty minutes he beat the living shit out of me. He let me know what a real what the NBA power forward was. And I wasn't ready for that. I
didn't really have a jumper. I was known for quick, inside, smooth, so but and that was his territory. I had to operate down and there where he lived. And when you got down in there, he was like, Okay, he's the reason I ain't got a jump shot.
Really yeah.
I couldn't handle it, and I couldn't handle other power forwards. It was different. That's why power forwards and college used to go down there. You know, you go down and so it was tough then with Kurt McHale and Lonnie Shelton and any car I remember a lot of old heads. You know, they didn't mess around. And so I had to go sit down for a second. And you know, I started looking at Jamal and I'm saying, all right, Jamal, you got you got an ex on your back. But
that's a story I had. And then you know, man, it was shiitball crazy in the eighties. Man, it was like, you know, it was just crazy. You know, the hotels, the lifestyle. I'm glad, I'm really glad. It wasn't like a social media wow going on. It was just crazy, you know, it was you know, it was uh, it was just crazy and and it was it was it was fun, but it was dangerous and it was uh, it was just free for all. Talk about the fandom.
I mean, you're coming from North Carolina. You're in Hollywood now, you know, you're coming on one of the best teams. You know, arguably the greatest players of all time. You know, this Showtime team is not only known for being great on the court, but being great off the court as well. Yeah, so you were coming into a lot of different moving parts.
Well, for a country boy like me who only had two girlfriends, it forced me to get married because I was out here for a couple of years alone and it was it was a death wish I couldn't have one. Yeah. And you know, on a serious note, you know, if you if if you're not absolutely sure who you are, and it should be a process that you go through. You should not be in a seriously committed relationship or get married. It's okay to have a committed relationship. I
take that back, but marriage is tough. You know. I went through my entire twenties internalizing, and you know, I didn't want to. I didn't really want to. I was, you know, brought up in the church. My mom, my dad was a minister, and so I didn't want to go to the strip clubs. You know, I was trying
to be loyal to my wife. But all the you know, the uncertainty and all the internalization, you know, caused me to like start to use escort service because I wanted I wanted some sex, and I wanted to be told I was handsome. And there was a lot of things that you that you that you exploring your own mind. You make up all these excuses for you for yourself. You know, a lot of guys turn to drugs. So yeah,
it's it's it's the athlete. You know on one side that you see you know who you who, who's who's a badass and he's you know, in public and he's dunking that. But then when you're sitting in a hotel room by yourself, and then your real shit comes. So you got that winning formula over here that works for you, and it keeps you alivee you know, it keeps you going, It gets you work, it gets your jobs, it makes people like you. You you're surviving with the winning formula.
But then when you get back over here, you realize that you hate that over there, and so then you start dealing with that and and so then it comes out some kind of way. So yeah, I think you really have to have good mentor somebody that you can listen to, because because you know, when you when you become twenty twenty one and you run into all this
fame and fortune and money and craziness. Like my best friend was a doctor or is a doctor, and so what he was doing at twenty was when he got out of college twenty one, he's finding a roommate, you know, to live in an apartment with, you know, find them a nice used toyota, you know, to kind of and then it took him till he was thirties until he got any money. And then he had a bunch of money to pay back. But he had a real stage
of life. You know, people have real stage. They have to go out and get a real job and live a real they're not famous, so you really got to check yourself. Man, when you're an athlete, you know, most of the time, I'm gonna say most of the time. Some of the time the women that we do get are not for the real the real deal. They you know, because they're they're looking for popularity too, they're looking so sometimes it's just, uh, it's just something you got to
check yourself with. Man. I'm I'm writing a book. I'm not promoting it yet, but I'm going to write a book. I'm gonna talk about not so much the exs and o's in my career, but you know, the mental state that we go through. And there's no excuses, but it is. It is a hard barrier unless you've been through it. Yeah, it's hard for people to grasp it. Yes, like you can have whatever you want. What are you complaining about?
It's deeper than that. It's deeper than that. And you know, I think the more we talk about it, the more we explain it, people would be like, oh, yeah.
I met a lot of women that was good. That was good for me, I mean good to me, but it wasn't good for me.
Yeah, man, but we live and learn.
Yeah, what would you guys popularity like back then though, from city to city. I mean, you guys are magic. Kareem yourself, you made a name for yourself very quick in the league. But what was the fandom like? Because it is obviously pre social media. You'll get a glance of you on TV and maybe in the paper, but that's the only real way unless they see you, guys in person.
It was it was crazy because you couldn't get a ticket. You showed up at the hotel. You knew, you know what hotel. It was easy to find out what hotel were staying in. And back then, you know, we were hit the clubs. You know, guys were going to night club. So it was magic. I mean we had one player that was, you know, very popular. Kareem was very quiet. I was I was more toard Kareem pretty much. But you know I had my two's a fuse. You know, we might go out and enjoy, enjoy the popularity and
hang with the guys. We went to the movies a lot. We always was like a magnet, you know, wherever you see four or five players. But back then, all the teams like you know, Troy Boston, you get the airport running and then when you get to that hotel, man, they that's where it all was. And the lobbies. A lot of people got rooms in the same hotel you stayed in, and it was you know, it was there was there was some you know, experts in there, there
was some con artists in there. It was everything dangerous and fun at the same time. You know, the NBA, you know, they knew all the you know, they knew as you guys know, they know all the tickets are and a lot of times, you know, like one team would come in and give their tickets to whomever, and so you know, the next team would come in maybe a couple of nights later, and so that section is
the same for the visiting team. Sometimes it'd be the same faces, you know what I mean, same people and so yeah, yeah, so the NBA, you know, they start investigating that kind of stuff. But you have to be what.
Was it like when you get into the league. I mean, cigarettes in the locker room, commercial flights, Yeah, it was. It was too black, it was drug filled. I mean, the league obviously came a long way, you know, and you were part of the movement as a transition from something that wasn't very marketable to being a very marketable sport.
Yeah, I just wanted to play in the NBA. I had no idea in eighty two that the image was still lacking. You know, a lot of cocaine, you know, from the seventies, from the ABA merging up into the seventies. They had no drug policy, It had no TV contract. A lot of teams you couldn't even you didn't even know where they were playing. There was a lot of you know, talk about you know, too many black players. There's an article about the New York you know, Knickerbockers.
You can you can pick up it's it's in Google. You can find out what they used to call them. So O'Brien only had him for one year before Commissioner Stern came in and to commission Stearn's credit. You know, he had a vision and the vision was to clean up the league, which thank god, everyone needed that, to have a drug policy where guys could you know, reconcile with themselves. Also, television was big. He started to create television. He had a rivalry with Boston and the Lakers with
Magic and Bird. He had that rivalry, you know. So the drug policy cleaned a lot of stuff up. You know, teams started to organize better, you know, as far as getting television rights, and doctor Buss was very innovative as far as helping them with television contracts. And he was the first one to get signature on an arena. I think it was fifty million. He got the Great Western for him back in the eighties, and I think Crypto
was seven hundred million. To see how it's evolved, So they started to you know, employ international players a little bit more, not as much as they are now, but the game became more global and it cleaned itself up. Uh. And then the Boston Laker rivalries in the eighties really helped sustain that. But not only that, man, you had you know, your Dallas Mavericks. You you had Utah with Malone.
You had you know, artist Gilmore and you know Ice Gerlin and San Antonio, Philadelphia with Doc and you know Mo Cheeks and those guys, and you had Milwaukee with Mincrief and so the talent was was was good, the parody was good. It was just unfortunate. Well it's fortunate for us that you know, it was always the Lakers and the Celtics until Philly won a couple early in Detroit came. But yeah, it was it was. It was
poor in the early eighties. You know, we flew around on commercial you know, a lot of guys don't even know where Eastern Caroline is. You know, diet was you know, we had one trainer that did everything. We practiced at Loyola Mariama, but sometimes we wake up and we'd have to practice at the Inglewood. Why. It was just it was just crazy. So that's where that started.
That's why when we used to come play the Lakers, we used to practice that long and my long.
Yeah, definite practice. The practiced at Loyola Mariamo. And uh, you know sometimes we you know, the weather would be bad and we'd have a flight delay. You know, back to back games back then you had you had to catch the first possible fight out the next morning in order to get to the city. We had a Atlanta, we had an ice storm, and we didn't get to Indiana till like five point thirty or seven seven o'clock game.
So it was a lot of a lot of stuff like that, you know, a lot of a lot of hot dogs with relish and beer at eight o'clock in the morning. You know, you know, no diet, but it was, it was, it was, it was. It was great. Yeah, it was awesome.
You really spoken kind of being bullied when you first got to the Lakers to take you to kind of find your footing and start earning your respect amongst that team.
You know, it took about half a season. You know. I started to really jail around March, and I was I was playing you know, I don't know, anywhere from eighteen to twenty minutes, average about thirteen points, and started to jail with magic as far as running the lane
was concerned. So but that was also after about forty games because as you guys know, you know, you get to about thirty two games, thirty five the most you've ever played in college, and your body's like, wait, wait a minute, what the hell are you doing a little You got fifty more to play. So I did hit that wall. But once I got the second win and got the knowledge and knew how to travel, knew how
to rest, I was ready around April April, in the March. Unfortunately, I broke my leg and missed the playoffs that Yeah, but it took it took me about about five six months.
What was the dynamic like between Magic and Kareem. I mean you hear stuff. You know obviously you were there. What was their dynamic?
Like, Man, Kareem's one of the misunderstood people and athletes that I know now. He's taken responsibility for his personality and how he was somewhat of an introvert and not always you know, compatible with what he needed to do to be nice to people all the time. But he understood the magic came that Magic had the personality and the game to lead. You know, Kareem was not a verbal guy. He led by example, so he allowed you know, he let Magic take over. And from what I saw
my nineteen years together, they had a great relationship. Kareem was just mellow. He's wanted to play and do his job. I don't think there was ever any beef at all from what I saw. If it was, they took it upstairs. But that was the thing with our team. We you know, we didn't have you know, we we knew how to monitor each other. Most guys knew their roles. You know, when you got Kareem Jamal coming from John Wooden, you know, you got myself, Mitch cup Chack from Dean Smith, You've
got guys coming from good programs. Judd, Heachcoh Magic from Michigan State. Pat Rowley played for a play for Adolph Rupp, which was a weird experience, you know, the race simms that was going on with that team. So we had guys that knew how to get over themselves and also knew how to get out of trouble when we got in trouble. So it was because we wanted to win.
How good was Magic Johnson during his time cut short for a few different few different times, but just the body of work when he was out there playing his desk.
Yeah, still to this day, if I had to pick one player, like if I got to pick five and they said we're gonna pick first, a yeah, because his his his ability to make you win, not to will will he gonna wiel some wins, but this makes you so much better. And his his fight and his face and his cheering you on doing the game and doing practice. Then his performance at six ' nine when he was humming, yeah, he's gonna find a way to win. He's gonna find
a way to win. So he was amazing man, Like I remember trying to impress him first couple of weeks of practice. I'm gonna show him how fast I can hit the corner, hit the lane so you know, half court, and then I make my angle in and fall. You know, I'm not ready for it. You know, he said you better be looking sun, you know, so he could get
it to you from anywhere on the basketball court. And when he you know, he could take a snapshot from eighty feet away and calculate your steps without looking like he could get it and to take a snapshot and then he's just starting then. Uh. And then his height really made it difficult to the fan. Like when Magic retired. I thought I was pretty good until Magic retired and then we got todeal three that then, you know, and day three couldn't see nothing over the top. So I was,
I was missing opportunities. I was like, why it open, I'll be like Magic. So yeah, he was, he was, he was. He was an amazing player, man, And uh yeah, ye speak to how great he was. His body of work, including college both academically and you know, three championships at UCLA when freshmen couldn't play varsity you're forced to play JV.
And I know Matt knows the story There was an interest squad game against the JV team in John Wooden's nineteen seventy or one of his national championship teams, and Kareem the JV team beat them. Couldn't come out of high school. Now I had Kareem been able to come out of high school, the record may not ever be broken. But poetry in motion was the skyhook. I was on the other side of the block, and I was amazed. Sometimes I can myself spectating and not going for the
offensive rebound because it was so special. It was more than just rolling there throwing the hook. It was it was the eyes, it was the pump fake, and it was like a triple jumping track. It was a lot to it. And by the time he got into it, if you could get through this left without getting your face reconstructed, you know, because it was up there. I mean, you know he I think he made one three so career. So he was he went through many decades. You know.
I saw him as a kid playing against the west Son Sale and Nate Thurman, and then he went through the next decade. Then he went through you know, Keem Olaijuan and Patrick Ewing. Then he kept doing it. Until around eighty eight eighty seven. But yeah, Kareem was his
whole body at work and smart as a whip. I was short after my junior year, about fifteen hours so I was taking a history course, black history course, and I was taking some independent courses out of USC really, and I was sitting on the bus and he saw what I was studying. It was something about the dred Scott Law, the Missouri compromise with some blacks. He saw it. He just starts said, yeah, eighteen ninety. He started nighting off these dates and without any notes or anything because
he was a history major. And I said, damn, there's my tutor right there. We just had discussions and he turned me on the jazz. It's just you get to know him, which I'm sure you guys have talked to him. You get to know him, and he's reconciled with himself. He's realized his downside. But Kareem was one of my best friends and his good brother.
Your introduction to the Forum Club.
Woo mano man, my rookie year wall. First time I went in the Farm Club and I saw Ola Ray. If you guys remember who, Old Ray was the first black woman and Playboy, and I think she was also in Michael Jackson's Thriller. But I saw her and lost my mind. It was just so beautiful in there. Beautiful people, beautiful women, and it was like Doctor Buss's you know, Playboy match. He had his corner over there, and it was always, you know, you always wanted to see what
was going on in there. But I had a couple of friends of mine that worked for the Atlanta but Delta in Atlanta, and they would always catch a plane. I get them tickets to the game. They would catch a plane with the three hour difference, they getting it right around game time, and I'd be looking for me, you know, because I knew where their seats were. They
wouldn't touch their seats. They'd go to the Farm Club at the bar and get there and sit until halftime, and they would just go crazy because the stars were they were in there and a lot of a lot of beautiful people. And then they would stay there till around eleven thirty twelve, and back then you would get a red eye back at like one am, and they catch the red eye back in Atlanta. Quick business trip.
But yeah, the Farm Club was like you didn't have to leave the farm, you know, because it was right there till closing time. It was it was nice.
We played. We played their preseason game with Don Nelson.
Remember he said when we was walking, He's like, if y'all could be a fly on the wall back when I was playing and my.
Dad until Nelson he was talking about. It's funny, man. I was in Maui a couple of years ago and I was in the pro shop and I saw this guy with long white hair, Donnie fucking bare feet, you know, hippie. Yeah, because he was my last All Star coach in nineteen ninety two. I was like, I was a coach. I was like, man, you need to give me some of that whatever you got man.
Nelly good?
Yeah, man, that it was good. I think Willie Nelson was over there with you went on the golf cour That's the guy they be playing poker. Yeah, but coach Nelson's you know, I never got to play for him, but I always always thought it was pretty cool.
Speak on the brilliant mind and how great Pat Rowley is.
Yeah, pat Rally man, uh, you know from conversations with him, and you know you talk about cycles, his you know, relationship with his dad was tired, and then he used that to energize himself, you know, going to Kentucky, being drafted by the Dallas Cowboys out of college as well. Uh, he was always felt like, you know, he had to do more and be more, and so his preparation was second to none, like his his his his work ethic as a coach was so prepared and it was so analytical.
Uh that you you were ready, and he would push you to the point where you want to fight him, and then the truth would be like right there too, and you have to deal with that. He knew personalities, like he knew how to push you like, you know, Byron, I don't know, Well, you haven't hit anything worthy, You're worthless. You know. He knew what to say, you know, to certain people. Magic.
I don't know.
There's nothing mystical about you. I don't know what's going on, Kareem. What would you like to do? You know? So he knew how to push people, and but preparation and practice and he didn't delay his There wasn't any like delaying his you know, communication with it was it was going on.
Uh.
So, yeah, he was he was tough. He was he was a tough coach and we won. We want with your numbers always went up in the playoffs. That's how you got big game James.
I think so to Hern realized, you know, in the regular season, as you guys know, when you like, I remember playing Larry Bird on a Tuesday night, got over to Philly, I'm sorry, got over to New York Wednesday night. Only they have Banard King waiting for you. You know I'd already had Larry back to back. Yeah, didn't have Banara King. Take a night off, and then following night you go to Philly. You got Doc and Bobby Jones. So regular season you hop around. You know, it's not
the same. Playoffs. You got one team for seven games and you have less travel, so you get to lock in. Whoever locks in the most is going to be the one. So if you lock in too, like I knew, I had to play Clyde Drexler. I knew because we didn't want Magic playing point guards. They wear them down. You know, we needed him, So I lock in video after video, well Beta Max back then DHR. But you lock in Man, and you know that's all you got. Jrome Cursey, you
know who you got. You just lock in and you're ready. You know, there's some tendencies. Then you just work on your game, man, and you know, ship you should. Everybody's numbers should go up. Yeah. Play you get the playing.
Time, you made the cost and play in eighty four finals because the self bad pass left the self supports and overtime and winning the game.
Yeah, take us back at that.
Moment as you as you talk about it, I feel it like it never goes away. It was away.
Man.
That was my fourth championship. So when they say how Mania got, it's it's cool to say three, but I mean that was it.
It was on the doorstep.
I had injured myself there before. I had no playoff experience, and you know, I had played very well up until that series. I've been to Boston, playing in the old Boston Garden. You know. Uh, I got a little rattle because we had already gone in and one game one, we'd already achieved. What we needed to do was split. But man, we had that. We had that game, and so we got the ball out of bounds. Magic wanted to get it in really quick, like throw it in and get so it was so so I was like,
ROUSE didn't know what to call a timeout. Do we want to time out? So Magic got it in and so we're in the back court. So I'm panicking a little bit because you know they're coming there doubling. I need to get rid of it. So I see Byron so boom. Now soon as I let it go my peripheral vision, I see this green jersey coming and it's it slows down in your mind. It still slows down. I see it. I was like, oh shit, and he gets it, okay, but now he's got to come to me.
So I got to go to angle and I go up and I sometime I wake up in the middle of that. I because I can still feel I can still feel, you know, the wind and the ball go right over two hits. Two retire a game. But you didn't foul it. I didn't found it. You didn't I tried to go for the block. I was still I was still, you know, trying to feel I could get to it. But now, if i'd had a chance to get it, maybe I should have. But the way they
were following us, but I had no experience. Uh. I was kind of panicking in the you know, in the last minute, in the last thirty seconds, there and that's the one that that's the one that that's the one that that I still think about to this day, just like it got away.
Speak to the physicality of the game back then, because now you touch someone and it's up. But you guys really used to be able to It was men playing back then.
I got a couple of highlights and you're getting off the floor.
Yeah, throwing them. Yeah. My biggest regret was getting in Kurt Rams's way when he when he got clothes line, because I was, you know, there was a lot of shit going on. I was like, what's going on? And I saw something coming and I got kirted away. But the physicality back then was you could touch them. You could touch the brother up. You know, like if you set of picking the lane somebody's coming coming on, you could you can you can literally stand them up and
uh like I remember Kurt Ramits getting clothes line. That was Michael. It was just two shots, crazy.
Rights showed them back hit the ground.
That's what three or four games now might get arrested, but but yeah, it was, it was. It was born out of the seventies, you know, when it was you know, it was mostly half court, not a lot of running teams except the A B A. Doc and George Beginnings and you know Ice and those guys they ran in the A B. A. But it was, you know, predicated on half court sets. The coach was always calling the plays.
There was a lot of control, so you had specific players you wanted to get to and so to do that you had to set up cross pick for Carl Malone, a down pick for Dale Ellis or whoever the shoot it was. So it was more control. Now it's just you know, it's it's there's no play calling, it's emotion. So you had a lot of time to slow down and then you had a lot of champ think about how you're going to defend that, and the way to defend it is to slow him down with a boom
with a chance. And then there were there were some games where there was a rule where no no freebies, no free lay ups. We had we had take files you know, you want to take John Stounton used to set a dirty pick early for Carl Malone. He'd get up under you and you know, get it, ahol. So we had one rule that we could waste one early on him, let him know take yeah, you know, you are here, he come, you know, and you try to go for his throat, you know, try to you know,
get one. So yeah, but yeah, it was it was it was physical, It was tough.
Man Championships in eighty five, eighty seven, and nineteen eighty eight. You shot fifty percent in all three finals. Twenty points some more. Boston ninety five, I mean, exkip Boston eighty five, Boston eighty seven or Detroit eighty eight?
Which was your favorite championship?
I'm gonna have to say eighty five because the Lakers had never won. I guess the self. Jerry Wells, will chamblain, all those guys, Elgum Baylor, they lost seven to Bill Russell and Hevli Chak, Casey Jones. So and the fact that we lost that one in eighty four, I really thought there was some type of leprechaun or something in Boston. But that one was because we not only represented ourselves, we represented all those misery nights that the Laker fans had to deal with, had to you know, hear all
that trash. So I think eighty five personally eighty eight. Uh, not only it was my personal best, but it was a back to back year something had been done. And you know, yeah, yeah one and only triple double. Kareem was still with us, but he wasn't dominating like he was in eighty seven. Magic was MVP of the league. You know, pat Rally had asked him to do a
little bit more. So I just felt like, okay, young younger Kareem wasn't dominated, So it was you know, it was time to it was time for me to, you know, step up.
What's your take on Boston fans where they unruly back then?
Buncle lived in Boston the sixties. Man, it was racist as hell. Yeah, and from what I understand, you know, we used to go through some some of that. You know, you you turned you know, we uld get to the Copley End and and you know you actually operated to turn your phone on, but she never did. You know you'd be getting calls. You have to plug your phone and people would say some some some crazy stuff on
the phone. And uh, I know through baseball, like some of the outfielders you know in Boston, it still exists. It was a tough place to play. They love their fans, they love their their their their teams. I give them credit for that. I love playing in Boston because I just just love playing there because I hated Boston, hated it.
I hated it, you know. And I'm sure all people aren't like that in Boston, but I had some friends that with the college that lived there, so sometimes I would go into the neighborhood and so yeah, and back then the old Boston Garden, you had a choice to either. Usually in traffic, you know game seven thirty eight o'clock, you had a choice to go around in the city.
Had to go all the way around the city forty minutes to get all the way around to this ramp, this wooden ramp, and you could go that way if you wanted privacy. All do you take ten minutes and they drop you off right with us. The subway people get off the bus, so you're merging with the fans. No bodyguards, no nothing. We just and there was a special elevator for us right here, and then the fans went that way. But as you were waiting for the elevator, they would just give it to you. I love it
because that was just my incentive. That was my incentant. But Bob McAdoo, you know, you have me listened to the Malcolm X takes before the game. Yeah, you'd be ready, you'd be ready then. So yeah, but you know, Bossoon great town, I guess if you lived there. But I hated Boston. I don't. I don't care to really visit. I'm good. It was Larry Bird. It was damn good. He was good.
H You had a quote not to cut you off that Jordan made you look slow, Larry made you look dumb.
Yeah, yeah, man, Yeah, Jordan. Jordan was an amazing you know, not not and both of them worked just as hard. But Larry didn't have the speed, couldn't jump, but a shoot he could work. He was a big, strong, beautiful pusser type player and he had a lot of skills. He could pass. He was ambidextrious, and you had to you had to be like on him. You couldn't get him any space. And when he got high, it didn't matter if he was on him or not. Yeah. Yeah,
he talked ship all the time, you know. He tell you now, I didn't get a lot of it because he didn't, you know, because I could give it back, you know, he didn't. And you know I guarded him half the game that we have Michael Coop on him. But there were times when he would tell you what he's going to do. You know it's coming, you know it's coming.
What'd you think when he played that game left handed and had forty with his left hand.
Well he's left handed, he right, he's a rights right hand. I wasn't surprised. But that's who he is. And he predicted it.
And said it. That's what's crazy.
He used to come in the All Star Game three point contests right before he started. He come in and look at everybody and say, which one of you guys coming in second place? You know, the one of the worst ones, man, And this is this is Larry White, guy from french Linco, Indiana, you know. And I heard he's done this to other teams too. But we had a guy on our team, Mark Landsberg, I think it was so we market the game and he's gonna guard
Larry and so it was a free throw. So Larry was down near our bench and uh, he says, man, that's you got that's an insult. But you guys just dead to me. What you mean that's an insult? He says, you guys put a white ball on me. So that's that's that's who he was man he went. Then he went just eighties ass something and you look at up totally so he but he should do that. Anytime you put anytime that happened, what every team, he would always say, that's an insult. But he was. He was tough. He
was tough, he was nasty physical. Oh yeah, I didn't really I didn't really like it.
Late eighties. Your guys' dynasty run comes to an end. You get swept by the Pistons in eighty nine, did you guys know, did you think there was an opportunity to get back? Guys were getting a little bit older, and how good was that Detroit team?
The Detroit team was good in eighty eight when we when we won, they were tough, so we knew coming back, and yeah we knew in eighty nine we were undefeated to that series. We swept everybody, Denver, Dallas, I believe, San Antonio. Maybe I can't remember who we played, but we were waiting for them and we had like seven days off back then television control when the playoffs started and Detruit was still playing in their finals Chicago or
or maybe Boston. But Ralph took us to Santa Barbara because he didn't want us to have seven days off in La In and so we went to Santa Barbara and a couple of guys got hurt, Magic got hurt. Byron I had an ankle injury that got worse. But we just weren't healthy. And even if we were detruit was still they were good. Yeah, they were good, and you know they were isaas frain his ankle in eighty eight. I'm not saying that they would have won, but that
that hurt them in Game seven. But they were a defensive, tough team and the guy that guarded me the best they could slow me down was Dennis. So they were good. Kareem was not that much of a factor in eighty nine and we really hadn't made any significant changes to our team. I think we picked up Orland Awards Tony Campbell from Detroit, Rivers from Notre Dame, so you know,
we were injured, We didn't really have enough experience. Really took him bat with them, and they were just they were just too good.
To you spoke to someone who had, you know, did a fairly good job of slowing you down. Dennis Robin, what kind of player was he in that time?
He was bad man Dennis was a machine Uh in Detroit, he was a machine man. He could guard anybody on the floor.
Uh.
He had the psychological games. He get in your head, like you know, before the game, you give a depth. He squeezed my ass a little too. It wasn't like what's up. It wasn't like let's go. It was I was so now you're thinking, you running down the court, you know, thinking about this motherfucker. Why he getting every fucking offensive rebound there is because he knew how to, you know, get physical and play, you know and flying
and he was. But his footspeed matched mine. So all my little quick ship was so you had to be ready. But I was ready. I was ready. But but yeah, Dennis was. People.
Do you consider that that that Bad Boys team? Was that a dynasty? I just I just know them for winning two championships.
That's that's that's and that's not a dynasty of me.
So you know, Golden State dynasty, Lakers, Boston, San Antonio, Chicago. But no, I mean they want, they want to and that's Uh. Isaiah Thomas is he underrated? Yeah? I'm picking him after Magic. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I don't don't don't get it. Twisted. Now, don't don't get it twisted, Isaiah. I'm picking him after Magic Yeah, and uh, because uh, this Zeke was the truth. I mean, he could give it to you however you wanted it. On both ends.
He was. It was tough out of Chicago, so you know, I don't you know, I didn't really know it personally like like personality, I don't really care about that. But as a player, oh yeah, he's coming, no doubt. Definitely.
The eighties really brought the game back to life. Stack Decade yourself, Magic Bird, Jordan, Isaiah Barkley, Elijah Want when you look back on that, where do you kind of rank that era of basketball?
Well, the seventies, you know, the A B A, the NBA finally realized that we you know, doctor j Needham, Yeah, Ice Garbin, that was that. I would have to say the eighties and I know that, you know, the Lakers won, the Chicago won three in a row. But the emergence of the NBA again, I think happened in the eighties because there were so many good teams in addition to Boston and in LA uh and the players, Magic Ring Isaiah byrd McHale. You know, you know, Dennis Johnson was amazing,
you know, Sidney mindcree. You know, there was a plethora of like just amazing great players during that time that I had to say. The way they merged out of the seventies and gave the NBA life, it kind of breathed life back into the NBA. So for me, and I'm being a little bit biased, but I think that was. It gave life to Shaq and Kobe and even Michael. Even MJ had to pay his dues to really, so I think, yeah, it was, it was. It was a good era. And then you know, television, the salaries began
to emerge in the late eighties. You know, I tell people all the time, I was the number one draft pick in eighty two, you know, four hundred and seventy five thousand, that was. And I had veterans coming up to me who have been in the league seven or eight years saying, how the hell you getting four hundred and seventy five thousand dollars? You know, but I play for that Now I can't find a job. I mean
you can. But but just to show you that the eighties propelled into salaries contracts, the balloon payment, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, Collector Barton Agreement, beginning to be more focused on what the players were getting. You know, as a retired player, I'm getting full coverage insurance now because of you know, the way that you guys thought about, you know, what the league needs, and so yeah, it's it's but the eighties started a lot of we never
we never strike. We were close a couple of times. But so it's good.
That's one thing that the league got right. Took care of the older players and everybody's insurance. Not that's one thing they did get right.
They did unlike you know, unfortunately the NFL, because when you think of guys like Bill Russell, Algum Baylor, uh, you know, all those guys, even even Bob Cousy and Tommy Hysen was very critical to starting the Players Association to get rights for us. Uh. And so yeah, I mean and you know, they played, you know, they played
in the sixties. They were they were pretty good, you know, and they definitely deserve to have some some medical you know, uh, some medical care for for the contributions that they made. They kind of started. They did Busher Oh, I mean Bob Pettitt I Petted was a scoring machine, and you know, you do your little history, there's guys that stood for something and really, you know, uh left us something to work with.
But the eighties being the physical league, it was do you feel, God, how do you feel? Guys like Steph Lebron, maybe even Giannis would affaired in that type of physicality and that kind of grind type league.
It would have been a slight difference. The way Steph can shoot. I think he you know, the way he moves without the ball. I think he could survive to have to guard Magic on the other end, because we looked for matchups. You know, we put a lineup where he's going to have to guard me or Magic or you know, our A C. Green or somebody like that, who would get offensive rebounds. So I think the defensive
issue would be a little bit different. And I you know, I remember when the league took away the handcheck and moved the three point line in a little bit because guys were coming out of college a little bit more, you know, frequently without having all the fundamentals. But you know, we're talking about defensive specialist like Sidney mind Cree, guys like you know, I mean, you guys played against Bruce Bowne and guys like that where they got to play
Sean Elliott. It would be a little bit different. You wouldn't be able to run as freely and then you would definitely get exposed. I would see just clearing out even times in a row and Magic if you go to guard Magic, you know, we put in a situation where you got to guard somebody, So it would be a little bit different. But you know, look, guys today have mastered a style of play just like we did
in the eighties. It's just a little bit. It's a little bit different, a little a little less inside now you know, your bigs aren't really big, so but yeah, I think I think it'd be a little different defensively, a little bit more lockdown. I'd love to see Michael Cooper, you know, play against some of the some of these guys that but the way the ball handling is, the way Kyrie Irving is, it'd be a challenge to be a challenger, no doubt.
What was it like seeing Mike's kind of rise in the early nineties, It was, uh, I'm not gonna say it was overdue, but the timing was.
Was was good for Michael because he realized you know, he couldn't do it all by himself. You know, I think Michael he knew about team at Carolina, but I don't think he really mastered it until guys like Hardst Grant Hippen, guys like that. Cartwright was a big part of, you know, the conversations with Michael. He had to learn through with the Pistons really, but once he got past that and what Fiel was in place, and he trusted his teammates, trusted Paxson and Kerr and those guys, he
was he was. He was driven. He would driving them. But yet all those guys made him better. They enhanced his game, and that's why they started to win. Now, Lakers were done, Boston was done, The twelve was kind of over. Keem Olajawan did what he did, but the league was you know, it was was right for Michael. Utah was still there. He had some challenges, but once he once he tasted the honey, he wanted someone. That's what he is. He won chips with no All Stars. Yeah,
he once he tasted, that's it for him. He's like locked in. That's it's like golf for him. Once he once he gets locked in, that's it and I've never seen one player that challenges everybody like in your face, right or wrong. Whether he's right or wrong, he's in your face. So he says it, he says a good example.
Any fun or competitive stories on and off the court. What about Mike uh Man? Michael not not anything too crazy.
You know.
The guys used to tease him a lot, right. So we had a running program. Three groups, A quick young guards. They'd have to run their time, you know, like a two twenty and twenty seven seconds. B group which Michael was in, had to run his and thirty and then the bigs. So the little guys were always telling Michael the point guards, ah, you got more, you got three more seconds to make your time. So Michael got tired of hearing that shit. He went and told coach she
had put me in the A group. He just busted at he was running. He was running shit twenty five seconds. But rookies also had to carry like either field rejector or the boom box, and Michael had the big boom box he had to carry around. I don't really one time, you know, I think we had to get on him by Kurtfield boy, he was real close to because you know, one guy in Trouble, the whole team that run. Michael was pretty he was pretty clever. He didn't I don't
really remember too many. Buzz Peterson. You have to ask Buzz his roommate. I know, Buzz used to say, you know, ah, because Buzz was kind of a preppy dresser kind of guy. So we always had to button down stairs, and Michael used to wear all his clothes and so he's, you know, Buzz's put his shoes on, maybe all stretched out and messed up. He used to do stuff like that with Buzz and they're still boys. But yeah, Michael was, he was. He was pretty cool on campus. He went to class,
you know, low profile. When did you know it was time to retire? When it wasn't no fun anymore? Yeah, and you know Magic retired. Everybody was was gone, Coop was gone, Kareem. I think Byron had been traded to Indiana, and so I was there with a you know with young players, you know, Anthony Peeler, h Elden, Campbell, guys like that, and so they didn't really understand what I had gone through, and I couldn't understand where they were headed. They just wasn't fun anymore. The fun for me was
getting up going to practice. You know, we would get with the ball. I practice used to be on point, like fun, and then you know the camaraderie, the joking on the back of the bus, and you know, we had family. We played the together for nine years. So when I you know, when I didn't see the same attitude and my knee was starting to you know, I had archscope. You know, I remember my signature dunk, you know,
not from the free throne lad but right inside. And I just remember, like it was ninety three, and I remember stealing and I'm I'm there, and about halfway there, I start coming turned into a turned into a flip. You know when your body, when your body kind of starts talking to you, and you know, we didn't have what they guys have today, but you know it's pretty good shape. But when your body starts telling you, you know, and then when your mind starts saying, yeah, it's not
finding more. Yeah, I was ready. I was ready to give it out.
Anybody in today's game remind you of Big Game. James.
I can't say, man, uh, I really I really can't. I mean, you know, one of my favorite guys to see it. I liked him in Texas was Cavin Durant. He had that once I developed an eight foot you know area where you know to step back from eight foot you know. By no means, I'm not comparing myself to to a camera Durant, but I liked his style. I can't really say it. They say Jeff Green when he first came in.
I can see that.
When he first came in he had a statue. Yeah he had a little, but I can't really. Not too many guys had to spind move up the footwork. I went to Pete Newles big Man camp for like three or four years, so footwork was was big. But you don't see the post game too much anymore, especially from a guard or mid range player. Very very seldom that you see a plays called for that. And that was my specialty.
So I don't.
I don't really see that too much.
Like I used to.
When I got in the league. Paul Pierce started it, and every team started doing after Paul Piers because he was the master the stuff ual on that block to dribble man, get that shoulder, go quick inside, hitot that's all going from you.
He was doing that at Inglewood High School used to come to our games like five minutes away. Paul, It's.
Got any COVID was the biggest story end of the game. Some moves he probably picked up from you you got any Corby Store.
I was. I was helping Byron Coach. I wasn't traveling, but I was going to all the practices here at home. So I was still doing television as well. And I was working with Julius Randall, Larry Nance, Turk Black just on footwork, you know, step backs up and on this all kinds of stuff. And Kobe was on the team, but he wasn't really practicing a lot. So Gary Vda, the trainer, called me one night, like nine thirty. This
is Kobe's nineteenth year. Now, I worked with Kobe maybe his second year in the league when he when the Lakers used to go to Honolulu. I worked with he and Lamar Odham and some other guys, so i'd already, but this is his nineteenth year. He calls me, Gary Vedy Car said, Cobe wants to meet you in the gym in the morning. Yeah, what's up? So I meet him in the gym and he starts questioning me out a certain area. It wasn't the whole lane. It was just a certain area that his dad used to get
VHS and Beta Max when he was in Italy. Jellybean he played in the NBA for a little while before going to him, and this guy said he remembered this some move and then he went to show me based on this video that he had seen as a kid. He just because he was getting older, he wasn't relying on his quickness, and it was just a surprise step in.
You know.
I would pretend that I was talking to Magic. I'd be like what, and then I would spend and you know, he just and because I said, you're working too hard to get you know, you don't need to be running all everywhere to get open. I said, just walk into it, you know. And then sometimes you might set a back pick, but you got to tell your point guard what you doing.
And he was.
He was still studying the game. Man, He wasn't even practicing. He wasn't playing a lot either, but he was still trying to pick up something. And I'd never seen that before. I interviewed him once down in everybody in his office, and I've never seen a player so focus. I don't think he had any hobbies like golf or anything. He was that he was just so super focused on detail and the way he watched the game. He watched everything hand movement. We'd be watching video and he'd be like,
always got his hand up. I got him, what are you talking about? Because he's like, well, his weights on that side. So anytime he thro his hands up his So I've never seen anybody look at the game the way he did. And then you know, of course, his philosophy was nobody's going to have more hours than me.
I'm working at at four am to six ten twelve, you know, so I know if I have twenty hours at the end of the day and somebody else only has seven, then I'm so when you when you're charging your mind with that and you believe it, you believe you're gonna make that shot, you know, when you're trapped in the corner and you gotta know what to do, but throw a left hand three and that shit goes in.
You know.
That was that's a that's a mindset. That's uh, they can do anything. Probably I can probably be president one day if he wanted or something like that. But he had a and I was just sad that we didn't get to see what he was going to get to do. It's for for for for girls in particularly. You know, he's he's focused, he's locked in. He's locked in. Brother who is.
Big game James outside of basketball? Like, what do you like to do? How is do you golf? Know you like golf?
I love golf, man, I suck at it, but I love chasing it. I love chasing it as most people though. Yeah, I love playing golf, but I suck it most people who are honest about it. I just go out because it's a good fellowship.
Really, A big part of my portfolio comes from being on the golf course because that's what the decision makers are. They're out there, you know, trying to see, hey, who can speak at my convention? Right? So it works some some business ventures I love. I love my girls thirty three and thirty one. Now, our journey was was was a tough journey, but now we're in a place where we you know, we've had some some good conversations. I just love helping people. Man Boys and Girls Club do
some scholarships in my mom's ain't back home. Same things we all do because I think you get a platform for a reason, and that's to give back something whatever that is. So I try to you know, I try to stay focused on the business. Tip got a product. Uh it's a cryo therapy. Uh like a best that has like a specialized jail pass. Is kind of ice Ice Ice company. We're working with some little things. Man. Try to stay busy. Yeah, well, we.
Appreciate your time today man. And with the quick hitters. Now, so the first thing to come to mind, let us know all time, your all time Lakers starting five. Uh.
I gotta start with Elgin Baylor, only because I know the history a little bit about Elgin, seen footage, I talked to people. Uh one morning I woke up to the LA Times and Sports page James Worthy's second best small forward that would play second. And then once I saw the Elgin Baylor was first, I left it alone because he was that bad of a boy. Uh. I think Elgiebla created the jump shot. Nobody was jumping. They were shooting set shots. Uh, the euro step. If you go,
you go look at someone Elgin's footage. He's been doing it, been doing it. And he was sticking on your hands too. He was I saw him sticking on Russell a couple of times in footage, and the brother played from an army base. He was in the military. A lot of the times they would go get him before the weekend game, bring them to the game. But Chick Hern to this day says the Elgin Baylor was the baddest boy he
ever seen. So I'm starting with Elger. Will wasn't a Laker long enough, so I'm gonna go with Kareem at center, Shaq, Kobe and Magic.
Mm hmm.
That's my all.
Before I actually the next question, what's the story behind you signed with New Balands.
You got a lifetime deal with New Balance.
A lifetime right. Still, I still got a good relationship with them, man, and in fact congratulates to co Co getting the job done in the open. But I was the first one to wear their basketball shoe in eighty two. They were big and running. But the shoe is amazing the way it's built. So I took a chance. You know, Nike was there, Converse was still big, but my agent the time was was was talking to New Bounds because they were looking to get into the basketball one. Now,
what they didn't do they paid well. I had the biggest shoe contract. I think it was like five, you know, five years.
It was something like that.
Crazy until Moses, I'm sorry, until Michael came along. But Great Shoe and I took a chance because I had no idea that New Balance was into basketball. But once I put they had a mesh shoe was the first year I put on. It was light, felt good, and I've been wearing those what I consider bucking ankle breakers converse in college. So I liked the shoe. I stuck with them forever. There's a couple times my shoes got stolen and I had to wear the visiting teams, I
mean the whole team shoes. So they got they got on a couple of basketball cards. They got me in Adidas if you ever see it. But I just talked to them about six months ago about trying to you know, they always get me product. Yeah, but we're trying to be working on some things because I was the first. Actually, believe it or not, it was a Boston Celtic that introduced me to them mL CAR because they're out of New Balances out of Maine and he was working with
them in Boston a little bit. So Great Shoe, the son has taken over now Chris, and he's in his thirties and he's you know a little bit more, you know, has more ideas, got baseball players, got women. You know, it's it's it's it's very competitive now. So yeah, so it's be nice to blend, you know, somebody's younger. Yeah, I had to tell Kawi Leonard m one album you can listen to on repeat, Jeffrey Osborne on the Wings of Love. If I'm on the Freeway, uh ierk Went
and Fire is what I grew up on. Uh No, Billy Well Yeah, Billy Ocean. It was my guy was big, clean, yeah, Philly. Every time I see Michael Finley, I'm like, but yeah, it would have to be Earth Winding Fire. That was the first concert uh I ever seen. But man, I like bands like the Barcades Confunction. This is this the mold stuff. But then you know, as it got a little older, you know, tribe called uh track on Quest
was hot in Jersey. You got to see them in some local clubs and you know, if I listened to I'm not big in the rap, but if I do, you know, I'm gonna probably be nos like that's some deep, stuffy earth Winding Fire is gonna get it, though. Who's the most underrated play of your generation?
Man?
Underrated? Well, people gonnay. There was a guy after Dennis Rodman that was just tough as nails and a lot of people don't remember him. But Rodney McCrae.
I know that, I know that name.
Uh played for the Rockets. Rockets, then he got traded I think after after that they beat us in eighty six. But we had a brother, Scooter McCrae, and they both played at Louisville and Uh, but one of the reasons that they that the that the Rockets beat us in eighty six was because of his ability to you know, slowed me down a little bit. We had Kareem, we had magic and they had they had a king Ralph and Reid and uh, you know they had they had they ran the ball. But right, Rodney McCrae was was
tough man. And then there was another guy to play for the Mavericks in Seattle, Uh, Debtli Shrimp Deatlan Shrimp was He was tough, tough German guy man and uh strong fundamental foot work. His first step was long and quick, and I had some battles with him, But I would for me those those two guys didn't get all yeah.
Uh, five dinner guests dead are alive? You plus five at the dinner table, dead are alive.
Anybody that's hard?
Man, that's hard. Uh.
I wouldn't mind, you know, seeing what Frederick Douglass was all about. You know he was. He was an abolitionist, you know. Uh hm, So I'm gonna go there, Richard Pryor laugh off? Uh, Richard Pryor for sure? Uh maya Angelou just her dialect, you know Obama because you know he just emerged, and I got one more mhm oh man, I'm African entity, so strong, like Marcus Garvey or somebody my guy, that's my guy. I would have to go with Marcus because Marcus is deeper than a lot of people.
Then he showed us how to get our own currency, showed us if you could see one guess on all the smoke, who would it be? But if I could see one guest on our show, who would it be?
One guest?
But you have to help us get your answer on the show.
Uh ask me that one time?
Who would you like to see on our show? And you have to help us get your answer? On our show.
Is a I have been on the show before, no question, quest, no question. That's that's a tough one, man to anybody, athlete or not anybody.
You know a lot of people that came through them games, and can you know a lot of people out here, a lot of people out here.
It would be nice if you I think Denzel's been on too as not so that that would be somebody. Actually, if you get Denzel, get Paul Letter too, because there were Paul Letter's tickets. She was a bigger fan in the eighties than Denzel and nobody knows that. And Paul Letter was She's from North Carolina, So I would say Denzel and Paul Letter Lou gossip. Lou gossip was an old school say one of them with back back in the in the in the day. Okay, I'll see if we can get.
You well, James, we appreciate it, man, your greatness, taking your time today, but just you know what you did for the game and Jackson. You know, you guys had a movement that inspired a lot of us to want to be great. So we want to thank you for that and continued success. Thank you guys for for keeping it going man, because you know, it's nice to sustain it. You guys were cond just about not only what basketball needed, but what life needed. You know what, what what the
old players, retired players needed, what the communities need? So uh to use your platform doing this is you to be commended for. That's a wrap, James Worthy. You can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the iHeart platform Black Effects.
See y'all next week.