Jamal Crawford | Ep 112 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

to the show. Jamal Crawford, Hey, y'all was trying to get me. I was trying to get y'all. I've been looking for y'all. Time to looking for you. You've been looking for me. Man, he is here. He's here with a little bit of facial hair too, he said, he let it grow out. Now you know, he don't have to fool him no more. Yeah, I ain't got a trick. They know what it is now. Yeah, it's O triple O G status now. I mean my fucking twenty years

in the league. Definitely. We had I t back um at the end of season two and we actually called you during he called you during the show. Like I said, this has been highly anticipated to finally get you to sit down with us. I wish we were in person. At some point we'll get you in person. Were probably gonna come funk with you in the proem in the summertime. But it's just good. It's just good to have you, man, it's good for you to be here. We wouldn't get to a show if he was in person because you

know how you like the tip of niggas laughing. Yeah, we would have got through that positive energy. Man, I got energy now. I mean, I've been a fan of y'all show man from day one, like for real fan. I've watched all your episodes from Kimgriffe Junior to Steph to lou Will to I t Too, Everybody to everybody Fat Joe. I've watched everybody like I've I've been one of the biggest supporters and y'all making it look so

good man, It's it's so big for our culture. It's almost like you know how drip Champs is when they when they pay how I mentioned show love to the ones. It's been the game for a while. It's the it's the basketball version, right and y'all do the dopest ship. So I'm exciting, you know, I appreciate that. Brow first time meeting Stack, do you remember that? What were your thoughts the first time meeting him? I remember the first time I saw him that I can remember. He was

with he was with this what's your home? You would spurs that? Oh three, yeah, it was all three. I think that was the first time I really remember he was as cool as fuck hood as soon as our song like reminded me of of of how we grew up, you know what I mean. Like so it was just that that natural like love for each other. That's the first time I've ever really seeing them, seeing him and then getting the story and obviously playing with him, but that was later on down the line. But I remember

he was in Jersey. We threw that crazy lots of stuff, you know what I mean. Just so I've always been a fan of his, just how he moved and had his game like he had that he had that O g old Man game that you couldn't do nothing with almost how Paul Pierce plays, and you know what I mean,

guys like that. Every time we played each other, we should always talk about how we wanted to play on the same team and play together, you know, talk about that, talking about that every time we saw were talking about that. We gotta play together, we gotta played And it finally happened to Golden State and he was one the first year by saying when I got there and it was an in between transition, we couldn't be that. We believe,

you know, Matt how y'all had it rocking. But Stack with Stack in Monte and Goose with the Lynch fans there. So just to come there. That's the first time I came in and it was sunny outside when I woke up from practice. My damn seven o'clock and sunny. I've been the dog like this is cool, you know what

I mean. So it was just it was a rough period with that, but I love the bet even though showtime you smell that popcorns popping, you know that popcorn pop jack, you know what that popicam parts out that the blood star good. We could hauld him shake out there after that it's trying to rock. Hey, that popcorning for everybody. We know that, we know that it's not it's not Let's talk about your upbringing and written Washington, right outside of Seattle. How did you first fall in

love with the game and how was y'all bringing? Yeah, I first love with the game because my dad. A lot of people don't know if my dad played at University of Oregon. Kevin loves dad. So I've been around the game since I was too Like I had a basketball wherever I went, wherever. Everybody in the in the area would tell you, like, I'll be the kid dripping the ball coming down the street. I see somebody and I shake them. They look back like he's crazy? Is

he doing for real? For real? Then even going to work one of the office building, you know what I mean. I would take the ball over to the mall. I take it to the movie theater if I was going to sleep, you know what I mean. Like the balls have been with me is a carry on I had in the plane and everything. So I've just been around the game forever and just always dream and dream about being in the NBA. So it was it's a crazy,

crazy thing. And people would tell you used to be the kid whin the Chicago Pools breakaways because of Michael Jordan's nineteen years old, Like people around a community and tell you a Jamaal. You always had the ball and that's Kennedy and he hath the ball with who did you adalyize? Oh m, it wasn't even close like he he was. He was the one that allows you to dream. And that's why I said about great players, like there's great players and some of the greatest players and they cold.

We all pay homage, But you look m J and he allowed you to dream. It was like you almost saw you could hear some smooth jazz or some some song players here when you watched them play, because he was just something different, you know what I mean. So I loved him. I loved Magic, loved loved Isaiah. I was seen as I got older, I was seen Kobe Penny, uh Team, Matt Grant Hill, Kevin Guard that it was like my favorite g P obviously, so yeah mhm, Michael

one Mike move for sure. Everybody like yeah, yeah cold. If you played at random, Beach High produced a number of players such as Doug Kristy, Nate Robinson, Kevin Porter of Deyante Mary. Who are your teammates? You got any fun stories around the time when he was playing there? Nate Nate was my the one I played with, so Doug was ten years ahead of us, and then Nate

was in the same errors to me. So I was a senior, he was a freshman, and Nate was the same way he is right now, Like six in the morning, six in the morning, condition everybody like, man, what we're doing here? Names up there, laughing, getting everybody in trouble, running around after the food. So I remember one game. I remember one game Nate threw me a live and it was it was a badass live and ain't the

way I should have caught it. But you know, sometimes you thought the bad lives that created the best jumps, and so he threw the live. I had stretched all the way back and I got it, and it's like I thought I was gonna fall forward. I just felt all off thounds and I dumped it and they was laughed. Set you a ball. I was like, damn, I feel like I did the summer. So I never do that again. So I just stay. I kept my game on the ground.

After that, I was like, they don't cool, You're crazy native a problem food man, a food time, the little walking muscle. Yes, yeah, yeah, you don't get hurt. If anybody I'll tell people all the time. If anybody could have played football, is Nate motherfucking yeah? So Stack he was. He was basketball players, State Player of your his senior football State player of the Year, and owned the record for the hurdles and track all the same year. Like

he really could have did anything he wants to do. Yeah. No, I say he's one of the greatest athletes ever ever ever by farm. You led the Vicers to capture the nine Washington and Scholastic state championship. What was that moment like for you? I know, I want to stay championship in high school and nothing. There's not a better feeling than winning the state championship with your whole family, that your whole neighborhood. You know what I mean? Sad he

was the best in high school? How was that like for you? Yeah? And I wanted to state championship? Was the best basketball feeling even to this day. And it's crazy because a lot of people don't know this. I ran away from home when I was in l A. So I was with my dad from thirteen and sixteen, and I ran away from l A to come back to Seattle, and so my mom and dad was never together. I was either with one or with the other one.

And so when I came back at sixteen, I went to the gym immediately and everybody was like, damn, all was back. But I left five nine. I came back at six four six five, right, and so I had the same handle and everything, so they're like damn. So when I was going from gym and gym, I was like, where's nobody playing that? Wis? You know? What's the what's

the house flus? That was my mixtape? If I was the wrapping those my mixtapes, I'm build the bus everywhere I call the same social media, so building the bus, building the bus, building the bus, then finally the bus built so much, I'll start playing the program will Christi's program at the time, Boom and still my mixtape circle. Now you know I'm going on small tours. I'm doing the House of Blues, I'm doing all that. So that's crazy.

Average thirty Average thirty with Doug a sixteen year old me and only Dug Grand was the two high school players playing. I'm playing against David stotterb I don't want to cut you off, Doug Grand to talk about it, finish your story and then we go back and talk about Dougrand but go ahead, all right for sure. So that's my that's my House of Blues, you know, that's my that's my family Fund Center, and it was my ESPN Zone concerts. So I'm doing that. I'm killing now.

The buzzes grew so much as high school. So high school, I'm like, and I don't even see all of it. I wasn't playing against Damon Stout and Shaun Kimper, you know what I'm saying. So for me, I wasn't trying to average number. I was trying to win the state championship. And they became such an event. That's when Gary Page, Sean kim They're coming to my high school games, like coming to watch me. I think King Riffey Jr. Came

to one because the state the state term. It was at the Kingdom when they played at and sixty thousand people came up before they spanned. And I was trying to put on the show every single night. Like I became kind of like a celebrity and not like a shouting shake Cotton. But you know how shake Cotton was in l A, Like yeah, but that's that's how it was in Seattle, Like even with the Sonics and college kids.

I was probably top three or four most popular basketball player in the whole state, and so the budge just took off, and then winning the state championship capped everything. That's the talk about Doug Wrnd. I got a chance to play with. He was a motherfucking monster. Talk to me. It's a little bit of people that don't know Doug Wren shout out Doug. Doug. Doug was so cold, like people think I was the first person to put the

state on like naturally he was Dug. He was the first person to go to a U and blow up ABCD ABC D can't blow up And people was like, damn, you all got players out there. So he kind of helped open the door to a basketball for this area. And then I came the next year and kind of kicked the door open as will, but he put it on the map. And Doug such a problem, so competitive, he was so good, but he was being like he was being asshole too. He was mean and ship in

a competitive way, you know what I'm saying. So maybe he may be better. He may be sharp and not know him since I was a kid, but he was dominating and We had two different games, but I think I would like to say we made each other better. And Doug shout to do. He's the best player I'll play against when I came back in high school. Boy far slap him close. He should have been the NBA played. How medios he wants to Definitely he was tough man. He was tough obviously speaking on Doug, we spoke on

Nate Doug, I mean, Doug Christie. You guys just have a breeding ground for talent out there. Um, what is it? Is it in the water. It's just that's all you guys do, stay out of troublous hoop. Like you guys have a list of credible, credible I mean credible NBA names. Um, what was it like coming up with those guys and then everyone kind of outside of you know, Doug Renny just mentioned it pretty much making it to the league and played against each other, but you did played against

each other for a long time already. Yeah, to me, it's starting with Doug Christie. Like Doug's the one that set the whole player because when he saw me at sixteen and he's like, all right, you can work out. So remember I just came from l a, but I ran away to being ineligible me varsity is a freshman couldn't play because I didn't have the grades. And then I come back and I had this proceed and you could make it. Maybe at the gym you could workout.

I didn't have Doug's number. I didn't want a dollar from like teaching me how to get it myself. So if he told me to be at the gym at seven o'clock and the gym was forty five minutes away, I drive a car that with no license place, I catched the bus, whatever it was, I would beat him to the gym. I'd be out there waiting for HI when he pulled up. So he's like, damn your kids serious, I'm helping. That was the first person I've seen have a hand held phone, row to take care of his body,

incle weights on and drills and ship he's doing. I'm like, man, if he if he can show me the way, like this guy, this professionalism, if he can show me the way and it changed my life. If I make it, I'm into the next thing for the same thing, for the next generation, you know what I mean. And that's how kind of like really snowball whether it's be Roy or I T or Will or Tone or Dejonta or Kevin Porter, whoever it is, we all know there's an

eighth grade that can call us. He could reach out and Texas actly being like, yo, I'm having I'm struggling with this part of my game is actually responsible him. So I know what is doing a backpack way, Fifteen of us are gonna be the support him. If I'm doing a program, all two of them gonna be your plans. So that's all. That's what makes our community special. It's not it's not it's not that it's not the crab

in the bucket itality. It's like, no, you made your job is to reach out and get the next one for him, But and he just keeps going, that's not supposed to be, bro. Yeah, that's supposed to be. Yeah, But that's one of the rare places that it actually happens, you know what I mean. Like there's talent everywhere, but for everyone or whatever reasons, it's just not like it's

supposed to be. But it's beautiful to see. I mean, the way you guys really go out and support each other is is still to this day is it's a beautiful day. Appreciate it. Yeah, that's what And we we know we have something special too, and we just know you always be right here for young one's coming up. And that's the only thing is we don't want nothing from you. Just keep doing it for the same the

next generation. You you had one of the best crossovers this league's ever seen, spoke very highly Ai Tim Hardaway, Isaiah Thomas. Uh your ball handling magic, Where did that come from? Imagination? Like being in the backyard a lot by myself. Me and my dad used to get into it because he'd be like, because he didn't make it right, and so he thought he should have made it. He was all the city in l A. And at that

time he went to Dorsety High School. So if you all sit in l A at that time, it was like he was an All American because the best players right there in l A or you know, so he thought so he thought he should have made it. When he didn't, it broke his heart. So when I'm coming up now and I'm chasing my dream and doing my thing, He's like, man, you gotta have more life than basketball. And I mean him was kind of a posit a little bit. So I'm like, why are you not supporting

my dream? But he's telling me from a grown perspective, like, now the chance you're making a pretty slim so you gotta have something else you're rolling with. As I got older, I understood that, but at the time, I'm like, man, so I'll be in the backyard by myself. I'll be

down the street by myself. And I watched AI. I watched Isaiah Thomas, I watched him part Away Michael movie, I watched all them dudes, Baron Davis, right, all them dude, Steve Francis, and I never stopped taking notes at that time. Everybody was on the left right cross over a I was doing it. And so I'm like, all right, people are catching on that. Everybody to do the AI crossing. How I gotta do something different. So I'm started going behind my back, like okay, it's gonna be harder for

you to give it's behind my back. Then I'm sarty, Okay, I'm gonna behind my back twice. Okay, I'll do behind my back twice to a cross. Okay, behind my back twice to a cross. And so now now I'm just counter or whatever you do and I feel like I got full control of the ball. Like when I drive the ball, I'm not thinking anything. I'm like, Okay, if I don't know what I'm gonna do, there's no way you can do it, you know what I'm saying. So, but but I'm one with the ball. Like when you walk,

you're not thinking left foot right, You're just walking. That's how I feel like I'm dribbling. I could lose the ball cross and put it into another cross like people see the Western Mathews move I did on him. I actually lost the ball then if you go back and watch it, I lost it for a s foot second and that's when he thought he could run up, and that's when I hitting with another move. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, So it's I just became one with

the ball. That's all it was, and just imagination. It was crazy, y'all. My best moves this is no I promised to God. I'm not even bragg My best tien moves I have in my my back. I've never showed nobody because I was hoping I made an All Start names control about to tell the line, could you I was? I was hoping I made an All Star game. You was gonna bring them out. I was gonna bring him out. You know how back then if you made All Star name, Kobe had to wrap around the body the whole time.

Team Mack threw it off the backboard like people have a signature play. I said, I got something. I got ten plays I never did before. Every time I get the ball, they better not guarding because every time I get the ball, every time down court, I'll bring out nothing to play. And that's what I was gonna do. I promised to God I hadn't all played out, that would have been crazy. But but it never happened. But

it never happened, so it's just the boss now. They just I just playing myself so I could just hear him, you know, because they just ain't gonna see it be saved by nobody. The first person you hit with probably with your crossing the league. The first person I hit with the crossing the league. I'm trying to think, because I had to be comfortable enough to do it, because my year I didn't feel comfortable at all. Uh. I think you know who? I think I hit it. I

was like, oh, that was a good move. I think I hit Tony Dillon it's my rookie year and I hit Tony deal and he was with Phoenix Phoenix at the time. It's right before All Star Break, and I hit him with a couple of crosses. It was just simple right to left stuff. But it was like it gave me confidence, like, Okay, you can do this, you can pull it off. So I think he was the first person I hate with across there. Shout out from Tony Depp, you got your you got two thousand one,

you got your jersey retired in high school. Uh two eighteen introduced to the Hall of Fame. When you look back on it, obviously you said winning the state championship was one of your most prized possessions in your basketball career. When you look back on the body of work and then being rewarded and honored the way you have been, what's the first thing to come to mind? Thankful because that wasn't the that wasn't the the goal, right, Like it was just I was on a mission. Like I said,

I had mix sape, I had chipless circuit. I got to the big stage and I just had to just keep going, Like the mission was I when I was a kid, I've never said this. When I was a I used to be like, man, I'll pay the NBA to play in the NBA. Like for me, it was never about none of that for real. I was like, I ain't got that for five hollars, but they can have it. I was gonna be on the big stage and play the best players in the world. So it was just like all the dream looking back, you know

what I mean, Like it was all a dream. It really was. It still tripping me out on people like, Man, you know I love watching you player. This is that I'm like, because that wasn't the goal, like the goals just to make it, and I would have paid them to play in the NBA. Yeah, talk about you said, everyone's really close knit. Um, whether you make it or don't make it, ever, you guys all support each other. You just hosted your twelfth annual Backpack UH Drive this

past summer. What does it mean to you to be able to give back to your hometown the way you're doing so many different facets. That's another part that's crazy because I was already given back before I actually had anything really to give, Like it was just in my heart to do it. I remember one time I was walking down the street and I had, I think twenty dollars and there's some other street that was homeless, and

I gave it to him. I didn't know where my next twenty dollars coming from, I mean high who, And I gave it to him and just kept moving. And I remember my sister told me, and she was like, you become a bigger version of it. You already were. Once you come into a lot of fame or a lot of money. You know, if you was an asshole, you canna be even bigger asshole now because you got one way to kind of stunt on people. If you were somebody who gave it was a giver, you'll give

you the more you had, more an abundance. So for me, it took me a little while to give my foundation in place, but I was already doing that stuff. It was. It was dope about it for me. Out of every hundred things I do, they only report one of And to me, that's like the sign of really giving from your heart. It's not for the other stuff. Sometimes you got to do the other stuff can inspire people and get them, you know, get them to give as well. But I like to give an oonymously like that. So

it's it's really really dope. That's that's it makes me happy. Honestly. I earned a Scotlish them to the University of Michigan, Yeah, and committed to play Brian ellerb. How was the recruiting process for you? Not any other schools that was interested in recruiting you besides Michigan. Yeah, so it was. It came down to Michigan. When I was kid, obviously, like I said, I was in the backyard shoes. If I make this shot, I remember, I'm not even illige with

at the time, ninth grade. If I make this shot, I'm going to Michigan. If I make this shot, I'm gonna be in the NBA three to one, right, I'm making those shots at the time. But I'm it actually worked out like that, which is the craziest shit ever because there's a million kids doing that and it doesn't work out that way. So I'm just so blessed, and I always dream about going to Michigan from the Fab five, like,

the five is everything to me. They changed everything from the from the ball heads, the bagging shorts, the Barbey's all, just the swagger they played with. I'm still not sure you'll see five true freshmen come from high school friends to the n C Double Championship and do it again sophomore. So I was messing rized and then I wanted to visit there. And when I went out committed early, I was like, dam don't want to Michigan, Like it was everything I thought, and they gave me Jadon Roses Locker,

who's my favorite player at the five. I'm like, oh, it's over with. So they came down to them Fresnel State with tart Uh yeah, it's hard Washington of course, and then U c l A. And I remember talking to Bed. I've never told this story. I remember talking to b D and I was like, bro, you're gonna leave, because you know he's at the time, he's a sophomore

in college and he ended up leaving. I'm like, Dan, if he would have told me he was gonna leave, I wouldn't one to U c l A. You know, I've been playing with y'all and I've never spoke that's playing with y'all crazy to lose, to lose get you because y'all was wearing the blue IBN since at the time, I remember all that the shiny Ones yeah, and Steve, Steve lad was reproving me. Yeah, slone went to I would if I knew that, do what other schools does

recruiting you. So it was it was Fresno State, Washington, u C, l A in Michigan. And like I said, at that A, you see, I kind of blew up. So I had I could have went a lot of places. And after that they was like, Okay, you're getting letters from Kentucky, now from Kansas, you know what I mean, different places Louisville. But I really wasn't really considered him. I was either stay on the West coast or go

to Michigan. At the start of Nice and Ninete season, he got six games to Spenser from the n C Double Layer. The retro actly rule that this high school living arrangement has breached the by laws a whole bunch of bullshit and big bullshit. Yeah yeah, what that was about, bro. So out here in Seattle, y'all know the tech world, there's a lot of people of money. There is a lot of people of money. And remember I just told you guys that my grades is messed up coming from

from l A to Seattle. So when I got here, I started meeting people, and I met somebody who helped me with tutor in gave me clothes, like money for clothes and everything. He wasn't giving me money like hey, I want you to go to college. I want you I'm a program, none of that. So it wasn't like he was a booster or alumni or a program. It

doesn't do a basketball period. And so the n c double A found that out when I was in college and they were like, yo, you're doing this in high school and like y'all, like I was very up front, like yeah, I got a tutor, I have much. You gave me some clothes, and so with that, they said I broke the rule of amateurism. It wasn't even rule at the time. So once they did, once they did their due diligence and they saw I was I was cool.

They were like, okay, well we're gonna reinstate you right, but you gotta miss a certain amount of games because they had banned me from college basketball. I was banned from college basketball because I broke the room of amateurism in their eyes, and so they did all their due dealigen and state reinstated me, and at that time I put my name in the draft for crazy story. So we're about to play Michigan State. Our team is doing well, we're thirteen and four. I believe we're about to play

Michigan State is being gaming. Digby tells doing it now, you know us coming into to college. Like Digby tells, like, we wanted to say you were diaper dandy, any of that, right, And so he's pumping me up before the game. I think Spike leaves at the game. It's a national TV game. I'm ready to go. I'm leading score, lead assists, lead my team in block. Leaving stills like you know, as a freshman. So they're like, okay, we're gonna play Michigan State.

And Michigan State was nice as the footstone. So they won the championship that year. Mo Cles, Mo Pete, you know, Charlie Bell all there, and they it's in Michigan, it's packed. We get a chance to, you know, see how we match up. And they tell me two seconds for the game start, and they're like, also's gonna be one game. That one game turned into the season. I put my name in the draft, and I'm gonna tell y'all something crazy.

I was not gonna leave after my freshman year. I only put my name in the draft, and they said you gotta come back early from some school. I said, Sething school. I just left two weeks ago. Oh so I said, all right, I got something for y'all. I wanna put my name in the draft. Now. You can't make me come back to some school because I'm going through this process. And so that's what happened. People thought I was crazy. I go to Chicago camp, tear it up for two days, go to Chicle camp late because

I wasn't going. I'm like, I'm not going to my college. Coach was zero. My assistant coach, Curtis Town that candid shout him. He's like, come here, you're killing I come there day late. Still, the showing three days, don't play again afterwards ended up being a lot of in Michigan. Was history at that point. Damn, Yeah, that's crazy. I was gonna g I was gonna get in to how you came back and you had the Crawford crazies and

what you came back. But yeah, if the if the you know I am was in I would have been making that was my question. That was gonna be my question. I mean with the movement you had, and like I said, this is from the internet. Really yeah, I mean the movement you had. What could you have done with this

new n il rule all that killed it? Because I was because you gotta think Michigan's like it's it's world famous right the block, and people forget I was at school with David to Real, Larry Foote, Tom Braden, Like, I'm at school with those guys, and I'm one of the most popular players on campus. I have my own like you just alluded to, I have my own student section. So I was. I think I was the only player in the country besides like their team student section that

had his own players section within that. And at the time, nobody's when we were head bands. I'm worried to college and it took off, so everybody had the Crawford crazy. That's crazy to you about that? The Crawford crazy. Yeah, yeah, you know I probably would ate up with that one. Mmm. They wasn't ready for you, fan, No family came that Spruce Rachel, you know it's gonna hey my my, big my, big Holdie big Free. I got shot at him out. He's from Detroit, so he gave me a plan and like,

you guys both know me. I'm very calculated. So hey, you had a plan, he said, Look, the first game you get on campus, this is where you show the people of Michigan that you can ball. They cut people on n armor. So I killed that game. I think I hit the game one shot. Then we played Detroit. Shout him Sean Phillips, he was on there and they just they just beat you on the player in the tournament the year before, ye before. Yeah, so he come back. He was like the college iverson, I get the game

with him, block game with shouting them. So now I showed the college campus. I'll showed the people of Detroit and my dog big friends. Like, now you get to show the cable world. Remember at that time, it's the Big ten A CC Challenge. So we played Georgia Tech on TV. Jason Terry came in the games in Atlanta. I played well. I was player of the game, I think, and then he's like, all right down the stage, he's

set for you. So now I played Duke on CBS, and that's when the whole country's watching because this is before the internet. So people on one off and sho I stood out. I had twenty seven and six against them, and coach Coach k Cans to me after the game was like, man, you had so many moves. You started doing his head like he did his head like the guy and he got games. You got so many moves. Yeah, so it was it was dope, man. But Big Fred gave me the blueprint on how to kind of take

over college. Shout how big Fred? That was a blue little Yeah. It was me drafted by the Calves with the eight pick, but was traded to the Bulls with Chris mil I remember Chris rem Remember draftings Kenyan, Martin, Mike Miller, Die Miles Creer. That was my rookie year as well. Remember that's my year as well. I got drafted,

I got graduated ninety six, got drafted ninety seven. But when over went overseas and bounce arounds manjuries and stuff, but came back and ended up having the same rook year. But talk about that being drafted and by the Calves are going to the Bulls. Hold on, Jack, It just came back to me. Then we played each other. You talk some releague. You was playing with the Grizzlies. Yes, Bro, that was the first time that I don't know why this came back to a matter of fact, back Jim

and Jack was killing. That's when I first met Jack. That was the first official time I met him. Yeah, but yeah, I was crazy because you know how the speculation and being the draft thing, I didn't. I never thought i'd be in the draft room. I was in there recording Alexander shout out of courting and I was just on a visit to Fresne State the year before and he was the man. So to think of year later, we're the same. To think a year later and we're the same, Like draft from like, damn, let me here.

I felt kind of out of place. I'm the youngest one in here. You know, all these dudes established a j guiden lea l I mean, you know what I mean, Like my team Cleavesey dudes have done work in college. I played a half a year, you know what I mean. So I was there listening really and it was like, you're gonna go here, you gonna go here, and like, we'll see how it plays out. Nobody hadn't be going top ten though, because you know, I'm later on the scene. So when I go top ten the day of the draft,

is in Minnesota. I'm wearing Chicago. I got a Chicago Bulls shirt on Chicago Bulls shorts, um a bandana because I thought baby Ai. I had my Chris Ears chain on the Chris Ears bracelet and it just it just came out. Wh When I got drafted by Cleveland, I didn't think it was gonna happen because I hadn't ever worked out for Cleveland, you know what I mean. So I'm like, why they drafted me? I didn't. I didn't

know how the trades working all that. I just saw the cameras come around and boom, the Clean count terslect Jamal Crawford. I say with every you know, how did my family all that? And get to David Stern and then started going to do interviews and after that, within fifteen minutes and said you've been traded to the Bulls. And I was like, ohh Like so they were gonna

take me number seven regardless. But the cabs didn't know what the Bulls were gonna do, so they were like, hey, take take Jamal for us and we'll give you money, and you take men or take me in for us. We'll take wherever you want to give you money to the bulls. Like I said, we went win for us. So that's how I went down. Shout shout out Jerry Cross for that. Yeah, Hey, Courney Alexander, y'all, I don't

know about cord exam. If you want to know Cornell Exadeas, go to your l A Fitness And the guy that's on the wall, that's Duncan on the wall, that's Courtney Alexander. That's that's really him. Hey, I didn't know that. And and and l f as they got a guy on the wall that's dunk and that is Cortney Alexander. No, I seen it ball and everything, I mean all time. Yeah, that's Hill. Hey he gets up. He used to get a four feet on the jump shot. It was crazy. He was he was cold blood. I think I think

you touched on something that's pretty dope. Now, that's so odd, like you're the norm now, like kids leaving early as the norm, not even going to college. But you were in a draft and you mentioned all four years all American players, Like that's how the league was. Like these young players really wasn't coming in like you. Kind of you you had a similar situation that Kyrie did you guys both played maybe a handful of games and then bounced,

you know what I mean. And that was that was back then when you did it, it wasn't happening me and Kyrie. Actually, so up until Kyrie I was I was the player that played the fewest amount of games to be drafted as high as I was. Kyrie played even less than I did, it was drafting higher. So you're right. When we were coming the league, we were like one of two, are one of three young guys, and we had all vets Like we we learned how to be pros by with pros around us, you know

what I mean. So that's what the league is missing now though, like they don't they don't value the vests like that ship. What's so at all? What's your vets? Who was your veste of Chicago? So my rookie year, we were the youngest team in the league, and in the second year with the youngest team again in the league. So the next year it was like uh Fred Bointberg, Rick Brunson, Greg Anthony, Charles Oakley, Um, you know those were like Ron Mercer and shout out Ron Mercer. Those

were like the vets. Those were the vets. And then Scotty Scotty Pippen, and I'll played with him his last year in the league, in my last year in Chicago. But I learned how to you know, stop Eve McDonald's being on time, as young being on top, as young players getting there an hour earlier, you know, staying late. You gotta be last one the league, dressing in a certain way like That's when I learned to be a pro. Yeah. There.

I used to be on the bus on the way to a game, arguing with some people back how on on the phone with the bust wrong. You know, that's not the way you do things, you know what I mean? But I didn't know. I didn't know no better. I didn't even no better year. I didn't know no better. Yeah, tell me about the dynamic of having run and Elton Brown on the same tangwich. Oh man, I got some story. Let me tell your story. Oh my god, let me tell your story. Ron, and you know, both of y'all know,

so we're playing and Ron sometimes, could you know? Ron could get on one and he came, he came. But he always liked me. He always took to me, no matter what are you doing and talk to me? So he came to practice that day and he said, Mom, I'm all one the day. He said, they brought in somebody, new player, I'm all one to day. I watch this. It was a ten day guy that had nothing to do with Ron. He wanted the threats Ron, not none of that, None of that. He said, I'm all one

the day, Brong. He said, I'm all one to day. I said, all right, I said, what you gonna do, You'll see your on one. So he would start ah. He would scream, you run around and scream four times blocking people found people. Heart said, Tim, it got Tim Floyd got in his face. I've never told the story. Tim Floyd got in his face and sip, what's all this was? Ron was out of control, bro like, but I loved him. Shout out one. He put me on.

He put me off a nearrow bread too, Yeah, he put bread and talk about talk about brand because before he tore his achilles. Elton Brand was one of the best power forwards in the game, hands out, without a doubt. He was. He was a walking twenty and ten like they showed me like his Rookie of Year campaign and they had a brand of soap. It was like a soap box and they had brand on it, twenty and ten on it. The one you can depend on, like he was walking twenty and ten. He's the one who

can depend on. Yeah, he was twenty and ten no matter what, he just knew how to get it. Like he was a beast workerholic, always works always uh was in proving and he was smart. He was very seree bull as well with his talent. So he was problem. But people would never know about the Eldon brand. Like they shoot in this era. You know, shout out elm Man, shout out over there over there working on in the front office with the Sixers right now. But that motherfucker

was a killer. Bro, here's the killer. It's still hard to believe that him, Ron and Llo was playing together in high school with that church at the church, John Propical, that's crazy at the church and Barkley I think was on there and those guys, Bro, they had had a squad. Okay, what was your welcome to the NBA moment your rookie in Chicago, we just talked about your bets when you get in the league. What was your what made you feel like you had got to them? But like the

welcome to that first moment that you had. Oh, there's a couple of moments. The first one was the first preseason game. We're playing in New York and the Trull spree will. You know, at the time of the garden you can see the other team at the other of the tunnel, so at the time, you know, the Bulls come out and Spreewell that just came went to the finals there over there on the at the end, and I hear spree Ull saying, Okay, I'm relove it. What damn?

I can feel it like I'm nervous already. I'm a rookie. Here goes free. And that was like the first first moment. And another moment was, uh, my rookie first game playing Sacramento, I'm a looting You pick with terrible, So what's the formula, right? If you're terrible a lot of pick, probably can play a lot they once you developed. I didn't play to the last minute of the game. My whole family is they are floball. And I played at the very last

minute the game. Got two shots up though, made the first one, and got two shots up through made the first one, and that was like my my welcome to my damn, this is really his business. Like they just took me. That was my first moment, Like when they took me as a as a as a high draft pick. I think I'm gonna play a blowout and he puts me in like to mess with me because we got into it. He puts me in the last minute of

the game, made my first shot. Though my dad was kissed too, by the way, but yeah, that was it. He had the O G stands. We kept pulling up his pants like ship, let me go tell that because this is crazy, you know, he had one of those going, but it was he was upset. I remember that. Yeah, that's funny and helf. So you're coming into a Bulls organization that just had one of the most dynamic and six eight year runs we'd ever seen. What was the organization like kind of you know, you said you played

with Pitt your first year. You know you played with Pip before he left. What was the light kind of ending that era and coming into this new, younger era of the Bulls. It was amazing because the the front office, Jerry Cross had a lot of confidence. He was like, I drafted you, I drafted five as you drafted guy who draft l m me, Okay, that's a young part of the game. Now. He truly believed that we were gonna sign Great Hill, Tim Duncan, and Tracy McGrady, Like

he said, we all his cat money. He believed we're gonna sign all three. And so at the time, you know, I'm just new the league, so I'm not understanding like, Okay, we're gonna get those guys on the team too, all right, But he really believed that. So the front office had a lot of confidence from that eight year run. They feel like they can make some stuff happen. Um, the fans was always sold out. It was always sold out

because I think them tickets were in advance. They thought, you know, we're gonna break up, so they was already sold out. So we were terrible, but we played in front of a great crowd every single game. So it was it was it was tough in the city walking around knowing that they just had all this success in this dynasty and we come in as this young group was trash right now, trying to figure it out, you

know what I mean. But so I really integrated myself in the city, going to the hood to play, going to all the hood spots, you just say, like the CV because I was one of the new like faces. I wanted to make sure the city, you know, it was connected somehow to our team. So that was good and bad by the way, but yeah it was all the way. But yeah, in the Chicago hood, I don't know how much good can really come from it outside the game, man bro. I went to this place called Ikey's.

It's the projects for real, Like to the point when the found out I was there, they was like, you could have died over there. Don't you ever go back over there for real? Where the guy with the front office they was home. So I never went back, but I was there. I saw that's where I saw a young Will buying. I saw Tony Allen ms there too, you know what I mean. I was like, it's some hoop stuff. But the hood loved it, like abody from the bus over here. But the projects they got you

going to the hood and they got wrong. Working at best boy, y'all all over the place, always all over the place. We just running the same. We was all over the place for real. But we it's crazy because me and Rob was the one who jammed together like my boy, but like Now I was in the like it's it's one thing to be in the hood. I was in the projects for real, like because people in Chicago and don't go to the to the ikey. So

unless you're from here, you know what I mean. Yes, I was all over the city young him making moves. You guys draft Jason Williams, the duke point guard. He ends up getting in a pretty much a career ending motorcycle accident. Did you get to see any of his brilliance before he got hurt? Yeah, it's crazy about that is so j will Um. When I blew up in high school, certain rankings had me kind of hot. So I ended up making a second team Parade All America.

But Ja rules our first team, and we actually played one All Star game together eight sports games in the band. I think it was the first one. Jamar Johnson, j Will Boozer, Donally, me myself, we all Casey Sanders, we all played in the game. And so I was hit

to Ja. We knew who each other was, and so he came in for a workout for his Brules workout and we actually played against each other afterwards, like we was going at it, and they kind of saw that, and so I'm like, they're going to draft team, like I just showed them, Like, you know, you got a point guard here, because at the time, it wasn't like you played two point guards. It was like you played one and you played the other. It wasn't like it is now position his basketball, right, So I'm like, I

just showed him. I remember being the draft I never told this story. Well, I remember being in the draft room at the at the I know we were in the room at the at the Practica Cility and we drafted j Will, and I stormed down and crowds everybody who he left he left like, and I was pissed

because I knew what that meant. Like Jay Will was the Reggie Bush of college basketball, like he was only the first crack at it, right, And here I am coming off of a c O injury and working out with Jordan and coming out and filling my game, going to a new level. But I'm hurt. So now I'm back healthy, but it's my third year. Now I'm not. I'm not the new Tour no more, you know what I mean, even though I hadn't played a lot, and

so I knew what that meant. And when they drafted him, it was like we went at it because he was either one or the other. And finally at the end of the season they played us together. We both flourished, right, So to see him, uh had that success at the end the season and myself and we both was like,

all right, actually it's gonna play together. We're good. And that day I don't know if Jay Roe was ever told the story, but that day we're all in the Chicago facility working out, myself, Jay Will and j then Rhodes and we saw him. Remember Jan was like, hey, be careful that like man. Like you know. Later on that day we heard about the accident and it was crazy. It was crazy. It was It was crazy to hear that because he was just about to take off. He was he was, Yeah, he was nice. Did not know

the rules though, No, he knew it. Yeah, I think I think he knew it, but you know, he knew. He may not known to the extent, you know what I mean, But I think he had an idea. You know, I ain't gonna lie, bro, but I know when I first came in the league, and you know, when you're being around the best, you people, what nobody working around, no motorcycles, what nobody doing no ex game type ship but nobody but none of the old schools, the best doing none of that. So we automagne knew this is

out of bounds. Motorcycles all that ship. Ain't nobody doing that, Bro, that's out of bounds. Yeah he And when we heard Bro, like oh, it was crazy because it wasn't social media, like he had to get a conversation from doctors to the team to you know what I mean. Like it was different and it was just sad Bro because his his career was really about to take off. People don't know, like people know him as an NBA analyst, Like people don't know how cold j Will was Boys in the

air like this. He would be shoot jump everything. You don't get criticized now for being a score point guard like that's value, you know what I mean. Like it it was different. Then it was like, oh, you gotta be this And we were running triangle at the time, like damn, we can't get to you with this ship. How a were gonna in the triangle and you know

we ballhandlers like we want to go. So we started getting We started figuring out though, So when did you feel like you really you said, you know, you're coming off this injury. You guys have a little success at the end of your season. You're coming into your fourth season. That's when you dropped your first fifty ball versus the Raptors. Is that fourth season when you really kind of felt like, Okay,

I'm trying to get this. That when they end of the third season, when they started playing myself in Ja Wells like I got it them. I got the speed of the game. I got and we were playing teams like the Nets when they were fighting for something. We're playing teams fighting for something. Vets we played Milwaukee when they had GPN. Sampon said, we beat them, so we started figuring. I'm like, okay, my confidence is growing. I think I averaged nineteen and seven the last twenty games.

I'm like, I'm going the next year running. It's solidified. I gotta learned playing back in my second year working out with Jordan because I got hurt. But that's when I took off the end of the third years like I got it there, and that's when the fourth ye'all took off running for sure. Oh four traded to the Knicks for Jerome along with Jerome Winds and exchange from a Tumbo and others. Uh, when did you find out the news? And is that when you kind of first

realized like okay, here goes the business park. Yeah. Well it was crazy because Dannie All got me telling a lot of stories I never told, but this was this is for So it was crazy because Isaiah Thomas was the first person to call me at twelve oh one, you know, when I was a free agent, and he said, we want you. You know, we feel like you're fitting perfect with us. Um, we want you here, your our top priority. They called me a nine pm West coast time, twelve pm and the East coast and I was like,

damn the Knicks. I locked you on the Knicks. And that was in July. I didn't sign to August seven, so it's a month. It's a change where I'm hitting my agent every single day like what's going on, what's going on. He's like, it's gonna happen, It's gonna happen.

Then I remember talking to Chicago Bulls. They said, we'll approve this trade for fifty six million dollars, right, And so that was the other moment of truth and business because I'm like, Okay, I can take this guarantee fifty six million from from the Knicks right now on the Bulls will let me go to help me get here. Or I can play off the fact that the Bulls

say they don't want this other player. I can say they don't really want me back anyway, They're gonna take this player and I get seven, right, And so I could have played it that way, But I'm like, you know what, I never signed a big contract at that point. It's just ego anywhere when we signed to secure my future and just keep moving, and that's what I did. But I could have easily got more if I would stayed true. Like now, I know y'all gonna take them.

I know y'all want to be back. You just drafted being board, you don't want me back anywhere, you're gonna take the steal. But it helped give them more cap space, you know what I mean? So that was another business player. M m. So you're joining the young Knicks team who was rebuilding. What's that like? I mean, you wouldn't go vote go from one historical franchise to arguably the biggest franchise at the time in the game. What was it

like being a Knick? It was incredible. It was incredible because I historically don't play preseason's hard, Like I kind of eased into it that that, yeah, don't do that. But once I went to New York in the first game, I'll never forget fat joke sitting there, Damn dash for sitting there. You had a kind of people sitting there in preseason. I'm like, oh, I got to throw on

the show. So it was showtime right from the start, and I sat the toll and then ego, everything is bigger in New York, right, everybody gets ex signed off anything. So I said, I set the tone from day one. So when the season comes, I'm already broke. They already know what's expect and alex us to start off that that season injury. So I started and I just started in Stephano. People don't know this. Stefan I was the second leading scoring backcourt in the whole league, only behind

Gilbert Larry. He was that first year I was there, So I loved it was it was like I was I was on stage performing. I remember Samuel and Jackson, like I said, came to a game and he's sitting across and I wasn't playing a particularly game. I had something in my hand. I was like, he like, you know, playing like Nash like the only came to watch you play like damn like mrs like and that then having a good game and going to Tower Restaurant and seeing Adam Sandler and I know he was just at the game.

So he's showing me loved like. So I was on stage performing, you know what I mean. And that's why the guard I can't bring it every single night no matter what I mean. We'll we'll talk more basketball. But you also started doing something off the court stuff too. That's what did you do? You did something with jay Z? Right? What do you do with jay Z? Yes? The s So that went back going into my last year of Chicago. Okay, yeah, it's crazy because I had played for Jed to Rutger.

He called me. It was like, yo, ill need you jet to Rutgers. So I'm like, who can bring Eddy? Curry's like yeah, So I went to the Rutger and we tore it up. And so that relationship really took off. And then he was like uh no, so and then fast forward or we wanting to Chicago myself and Jana Roses Lockers is side by side and we're both a Rebok at the time, and they were always sending us a same gear. You get pair, you get a peer. At one time, the s dark Carn's ride and I

looked over jealous lock. I didn't see none of something like what's going on here? So then I hit my I hit my I hit my lead bock and REP like, yo, what's up? They said, Jay wants you to wear a shoe. They want you to I'm like, for real, and like yeah, but it's not technically a basketball. She was just the high top version of his low tip. There's like, if you like it, you could wear it. I'm like, there's like you'd be the only one to lead wearing it. I'm like I'm wearing it and like no, I mean,

you can't get hurt. You gotta make sure. I'm like it's cool. I'm good. So it's like wearing some Air Force ones basically. And I played we played Philly and a I was like they could wear those in the game, like everybody had the low tops and sold out. It was going crazy, like Yappa were him and I played well and I kept wearing them and that relationship really grew and then I went to New York. We got even type. Oh I got a story for y'all, jay Z. I mean we went to eat after a game and

he was playing Rick Ross. I only think Rick Ross knows this because I never sold it. But Rick Ross, he's playing Wosbeck Ross every damn husting. J was mesmerized when I saw him, like like whippen whippen real hard. He kept saying that part. He loved it. And that's my introduction to Rick Crosses to jay Z. And Ross has never heard that story. So if I ever he sees this, he don't know. Yeah, that was the first person put me on the lay Brown Uh put you

your second year there and the six man role. Initially, how did you take that? You became arguably the greatest six men in the history of basketball. But at the at the time, where was your mental with that? Yeah? I didn't see it at first because I was starting, you know what I mean, Like I'm starting the year. I always started my whole life, so I never come

off the bench. And when he tried it that year, I had some success, and he said I improved more than any players that ever coach was was huge coming from a legend like that, but I just it was weird to me. I just felt inferior at the time, Like, man, so I'm not good enough, you know. I we're programming to think like they have the starters, the best players, you know what I mean. So it was different from me. But I had some really big games and I saw

his vision. I just understand the time because I'm only nine, maybe I'm maybe twenty six at the time, and I had a lot of success, and he trusted me, like I had the ball late and everything. He's like, he's not a dog who starts to finish. He always said that. He always dripped that. My head always drilled it. And so I learned a life from Coach Brown. He's actually probably the best teacher I've ever played for. And so yeah, yeah,

like he was. He was incredible and he had that that foresight in that vision because I didn't see it for myself. Long time to go and finish the game sign, that's what he's always teen. No one finished the game sign, so it can We had to get rid of the characters. We have to get rid of the chancus. Here, you could have a big bucket of ice cream and a bird flies by, and just a little piece of bird ship flies and ice cream the whole ice creams room.

He would say stuff like that like he was he was a teacher, bro like for real, No, no, that I remember. I came and playing, so I was kind of bounced around my first few years. And I came to your guy this training camp late. Maybe I came to training camp late as the motherfucker. Oh my god, is when Zeke Zeke had just taken over. If I'm not mistaken. Oh no, he was there already, but yeah, but it was. It was some ship where they invited

me to training camp, laid I come in, I play. Well, they won't let me fly back to New York because I don't have a suit. I'm just like, yeah, y'all didn't tell me I needed a suit. I hadn't had a suit to get on the plane. So everyone's giving me one of these someone's giving me pass, someone's giving me sucks. So let's give me a belt, shirt, jacket, tie, the whole nine. So I go on this team and

there's a lot of injury. So I go from like the last dude in training camp to starting like the first eight to ten games, and then I remember Isaiah comes to me. It's like, you know, we got a lot of we got a lot of money on the bench. That's starting to you know, the guys are starting to get healthy. I'm thinking, okay, well shoot, I'm just about to go to the bench and I'm not gonna start more.

His niggas cut me, bro I played like eight teen games, started played well, and just got cut and got cut. It was crazy, man, because you really could not get on the plane leaving. We were like we we didn't know we needed to suit for real. That's a real story. Yeah, he could not get on the plane. He just went to training. Kim would do hill. He could not get on the plane to get back with us if he doesn't have a suit off. So everybody makes sure the

suit to make it happen. Man. I remember he was out with night as me and you, and it's a moment it was us two out and we're allownge whatever, and his dudes come and say what's up to us? He did from about thirty feet he did a side step all the way until he got you got towards and me and Maddie said the words with each other, and we both started cracking up, like we knew when each other was thinking. He did a side step and

finally said, what's up, man, what's up? He did a whole hey corin, he did a whole dion saying it's celebration to get to us, to say what's something? I swear to God me? And that was cracking up absolutely, And Hey. The reason why I think I got cut though us because, as Jamal mentioned earlier, he know natives whole life. Nate was a fucking terror and he was

always pranking people. So me and him got into like a pranking war and this they put uh uh uh the itching powder in my tights and everybody knew with me. Remember I went to practice and my motherfucking crotch was on fire. Yeah, they did a lot of They stopped with the whole shower or relief one to kill him. They get so much ship, yeah, crazy, and the thing about natives, you can go back and forth with him, but he just got too much hambular for that ship.

So he's gonna keep going never never, you ain't gonna win. You're like, man, at this point, like this is too much. This nigga pranked me in. He pranked me in target one time he ran into me and targeted, like threw something at me and I couldn't see who it was. I was ready to fights like this. Nigga just never stopped you. Oh for the oh eight good running New York. What was the one thing you remember about that fan base?

It was incredible And this is a lot. I never got booth there in four and a half years, and that's saying a lot because we weren't very good at the time and they just knew I played it all out like I wasn't scared to take the big shots. I hit game winners, I missed big shots like but I wasn't scared. It was like I was one of them, like people from there, like you know you're from New York, like you from Seattle. But they just took me as one of their old So I sho The fan base

was incredible, incredible. When the time ran out of New Yorker came to go to stay with your ball man, you're in the trade for al Yeah, it was really ideal feeling because we need we needed somebody to come in and bring some more scoring. Um, tell me your first thoughts on coming to go to stay coming to us and don Nelson, the Great Donny, the Great Dinny.

So I was, I was. I was shocked, to be honest with you, because at the time when I got traded, myself and Zebo got traded the same day, and so I went to the Warriors, he went to the Clippers. I was. We both are as. We were I think six and four in the first teen games, and so we were like, damn, we're about to make the All Star Game. We're in New York. They gonna juice us up, you know what I mean. So I was shocked. So after I got traded, it took me a couple of days.

I I met you guys on the East Coast, and Jack, honestly, once you embrace me, the rest of the team did, So you made that transition easy. It's like when you're a new kid going to school, like to a new school, and you know you know the best you know the best player there. So if he embraced you, everybody embrace you, and you made a way. And I mean Jack like that. Then we talked about that we were trying to play together, so yeah, yeah, yeah, and he was like, thank you,

I finally got some help. I finally got some help. Jack was Jack was. He was unbelievable, just like his work. I remember was in New Orleans, Jack and you was the last one of the quarter after shoo him like Jackie had come back here in a few hours. Dog like tripping, but just like your work, ethic, your leadership. I remember want to eat with Bobby round and you talk and he was like, man, stop playing safe. You gotta shoot the ball. I'm like, no, I gotta make

sure everybody got the ball. Like now, you gotta shoot the ball, man. So just that embracement from you, it trickled down to everybody else, you know what I mean. Monte is coming back. At the time, don Nelson was out there outside practice playing with his dogs, like he had key run practice. Let practice playing with his dog. But it was just it was just a dope environment. I wish you could have been good. Like if I was at the time, y'alls we believe and I came,

it'd be even crazy, even crazier. But yeah, it was. It was dope. It was dope to find play together even though it short lives. We we we get together were in Boston and uh and then when we was in our Showtime and prime Time mode, then Showtime, Showtime and Prime You know what I'm saying. We we always get out of talks for the game, but cruicial playing the game. You crossed ray out and over making fall throw it to me in the in the corner for the three You remember that play? Come on man, hey

hey it was crazy but it was he failed. But then he laid put his hands like he was Jesus for real, like he just laid down for us. He laid down and say it like, hold on, man, that's Jesus. These ain't doing that. But Ronald Crazy rond Rondo rod O came over and if it passed it, like I was always taught, no matter how the player goes, you gotta finish it, you know what I'm saying, Like whether it be a pass or a shot or whatever it

might be. So when I did it, he kind of half came and I threw it to you on Jack made that's just lash like Jack, And then Jack started talking like yeah, I'm like okay, Jack, I was whatever you want to do. I want to tell the man. Last night, after I hit I ran down enough bumbarade. I was ready for a smoke. Man, I wanted all smoke after that. What's crazy about you all? Too? Though?

For real, for real, all the teammates I've ever had, like if I was going to a war, like I gotta have him to here, There's no doubt about it. I know you're gonna ask me the five later on, but I'm just throwing that out there right now, going to I already got the form, man, I watch the show too much. Dog doing a victory over the Bobcasting December two thousand and eight. You had a fifty point game.

That's becoming the fourth player in NBA history only after Will but No King and Moses Malone for fifty points with three teams. Bro. That's why that's why I call your showtime because you show up. How did that feel? And being in the conversation the names of those guys, how did that feel to you? It felt unbelievable because Jack, you was hurt, so you didn't play that game. But I remember we was in Atlanta the night before, so back to back. I'll never forget it, and I played

terrible and my son was in the crowd. He was living at the time, and I think I was like three or fifteen and I played awful, and I remember the next day, uh don Neils was like, yo, we're not having them shoot around sleeping everybody me at the bus. I mean, you know, we meet early, so we did that. I remember sleeping all day. I got it for breakfast, went back. I slept all day and I was just ready and I started off the game. I had seven in the first quarter. I think I had like twenty

three going to the half. I've got in the rhythm and with me, y'all know how I play. I played craziest ship. So if I made a couple, I feel like I'm hot, you know what I mean. And then a couple of win and I just kept going, kept going, kept going. I had thirty five with five minutes to go, and then Ronie started giving me the ball and coach start drawing the plays and I kind of, you know,

start getting foul and things that makes. But whenever you score fifty like that, it's never just you, Like it's gotta be the perfect storm. Somebody said, the screen, give me the ball, drawing the plays like so when you have success like that, it's everybody, and you could feel everybody kind of take in that, and it's dope because you know, it's everybody can kind of share it. So yeah, I was just happy and they told me the company. I was like, damn. And then I go to Atlanto.

We go to Lando next game, and I got straight. I get hurt in the warm sweezing the back before we go. I'm like, because I was trying to get fifty again, I got I got hurt during the Anthony Moral stretch when you kick your leg up and then in my growing were ready for that. It was weak. It was weird. So I had eighteen Orlando game, but it was I was hurting. I had text some time off after that one. I was hurting. That was hurting. Ship that that young Anthony Morrol I had to put

you out. Yeah, I was, I was. I was good. We did the sideways swing. I was waiting he started. He started going front. I started front foot him and it was all bad. Yeah, pop goes. A reason it was all over with was until the Hawks in two thousand nine and two thousand and eleven, backing up all start guard Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby. You have eighteen points too and ninlf rebounds to assists off the bench. What was it like coming to a t L and

your first action as teammates with those guys. Yeah, it was crazy because that was the first time I knew i'd be a sixth man. And y'all know, the league put you in a box. And so I got to a point where I was like, Man, I'm being on as a good player on bad teams, you know what I mean. I didn't want that. Y'all had already went to the playoffs. I never went, so I was just labeled such. So I'm like, all right, I'll do whatever

I gotta do. And they just went to the playoffs with with with Joe and Marvin and and Al and Mike and Josh right, so they had their crew. I'm like, I come off the bench. I think I can bring something different. So going into that summer when we played pick up, I would always make sure I will start a game or two later, just so I can start seeing the game a little differently, you know what I mean, Like, Okay,

I'm start getting used to seeing. Okay, I'm not gonna be out there when the thing starts, So what you're gonna pay attention to? What are you watching? And so that first game of the real game I had three points. I took only two shots, and Joe Johnson, you know, he don't talk a lot. He was like, man, you gotta shoot one man, We need to shoot right. And then he told Mike what's it. Mike Wooson put me in his office. He's like, yo, you gotta go lead the league and scoring off the bench. You got the

same green light you've had your career. I'm like, oh, okay, for real, okay, I'm going. So once that hit, we never looked back. And it was crazy because Atlanta. I love living there because that was the first time you saw people like us doing jobs like drug testing or you know what I mean, like anything anything you wouldn't want to see us in it. Like so I was really really happy and the people really took to me. Like I like I said, I brought some of that

that that that old Georgia peach, that lemonade. It brought the flavor to it what they already had. It's just a great mix, you know. And then Orlando. Orlando kicked our ass in the playoffs. But you know, yes, but we don't worry. We got Jack right before a. Yeah, we swept. Jack destroyed them, came through stumped all the peaches in Atlanta. Yeah, hey, y'all beat the fat that's by average of thirty five points. And it was killing us that were killing us. Bro we should have won

a championship that year. Man's get Stan got scared in the Eastern Conference finals in Boston beat us. But with all we had, we had a good aass team that year. Y'all had a squad. But then we came back and beat them the next year though. Yeah, but all that before we get to that though. This is so you win your first six man of the ward six Man of the Year award in two thousand ten. What's that feeling like being recognized as you know, the best player? Uh,

coming off the bench. It gave me an idea, And it's crazy because like I didn't like I remember baby said you have win six man a year at the end, like what And Dominique Wilkins was saying, I didn't even think like going to the season that would be the award of the goal. And once you start getting closer, like jam I wanted, you know me, I want to do it. So then after that I'm like, oh wow, so now it's dope. Fast forward a little bit when I see kids in the gym and they're like, maybe

you maybe you want to be a sixth man. Like in our community, it wasn't it wasn't cool. It wasn't cool to be a sixth man. Like now they're like, no, I want to come off the bench and I could still kill me one of the more important players even though he grew off the bench, like woh, that's crazy. So I didn't know that it would take on a life of its own, had that kind of legacy behind,

you know. So it was big for me because I was going on a winning team and I showed like, you know what, I ain't got to be the star of the movie. I could be a co star and still start in my role. And it gave me a whole different ideaity mm hmm. So two thousand twelve, uh, Los Angeles Clippers. Yeah, thinking back on that Lob City run that we had what what what stands out to you the most? The best team I ever played on that didn't want it like we to me, we had

everything you needed. It was man, it was incredible, Like if you it was almost like we were playing two with how good are was like? It was just incredible. We just could not get over the hump. And as time went on, it got even harder to get over the hump, because now jokes, ain't it funny anymore? You know what I mean? Like you start getting tired of each other, and just like man, the doubt starts creeping in, other people start creeping in, whether we family, whatever it

might be, and it's just got it got crazy. But to me, that was the best team I was ever on. We should have went to I'm not saying we should have one championship because you needed some luck. We should at least been to one finals FORCIA. What do you think? You mentioned the hump, and you know J J and I have talked about it on on on his podcast and ours. What do you think that hump was for us?

For us? I think we didn't handle university. I don't think we're mentally tough enough in the moments that it mattered the most. And it could have been me at times, it could have been somebody else at the time or whatever it was. I just think collectively as a group, and you know what, you guys knowing him winning championships

and the group has to all be tight. And I think, you know, we're older now looking but I think looking back, if we had some of them O g is like yo, this is y'all's moment, they could be another moment like this, like you gotta get this right now to make it happen, like this is it. I think we had that things will be in the different the likes of you know, Doc Rivers. We started with Vinny. Doc came in. He was supposed to be that missing coaching piece along with Doc.

You know JJ who just recurred, just retired. DeAndre who's with the Lakers, CPS and Phoenix Blake's with the Nets. I mean, we had Lamar Ultim at one point, Eric Bledsoe, Darren Collison. We had a really, really, really talented team. Talked to that we had everything. And it's crazy because we literally won so many games. I think in that four year stretch we were like top four or five in the league and wins like we want so many games.

It was just when it mattered most days and fall apart right or be sterling, sterling ships and injuries, don't Blake and CP and a five minute stands important. I mean, so like it's it's just man, I don't know if it was harmer or what. But when some when it mattered most we just fell apart somehow a sterling curse. So you're able to win uh six Man of the Year two thousand, fourteen and sixteen. I want to say,

I remember fourteen. Uh they wanted you to dress up, so you had like pulled your shirt out of like it was freshly folding. You know how they're all come packed and this nick didn't want to iron it. He just wanted to take it out and put it on. Yeah, he didn't like to dress up. Hey, so two times you end up winning it two times to put you three. I want to say that your boy louis tied with you now if I'm not mistaken right for what he's

one of three times as well? Yeah he has ye yeah, I mean what does that mean to you though, to be kind of the standard for uh six man basketball? And you said kids aspired to to to be like that now, but what does that mean to you now that you kind of sit back and and now that you're done and you take a look at it. It means everything, Because like I said, that wasn't to go either. So it was like to see kids say it's okay, to come off the bench. I'm not less than because

I'm from off the bench. I can still be just as important as one starting. And that's and that's surrounding country. Like I've been all over the country and they say the same thing, like man, I want to be a sixth man, now I want I'm like, wow, it's crazy because I would never even thinking that. I was just trying to show I could be a good player on

bad team. So that's crazy. And then to win it at thirty four, you know, you guys know, once you start getting up there in age, they start saying, oh, he's too old to do this, so they put you in another box. So I became the oldest to winning at thirty four, and then I broke my old record and one at thirty six to which is crazy because that wouldn't even go that year. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

So it's just a blessing man like I. It's just and you can't see him that they're up there right now, and that's something they can never change and take away. We have some memorable battles in the playoffs with the Spurs the year they won the champion following you didn't won the championship. We knocked him out in the first round. Uh. We were the last team to beat the Warriors in the seven games sterling season before they started winning championships. Uh.

But battle with the Grizzlies. What playoff series? Uh? Stand up till you had the most. I would saying the Spurs one, because that one was they just won a championship. And I don't know if you remember this, Matt, we were eating the night before the regular season or the same acting regular season ended, and there was like a million different ways of if this happens, and that happens, you guys playing this team, If that happens, you're playing this team and the Spurs I remember clearly z Ball

towards the end of the season. I was like, who y'all got in the cloffs? He's like, man, I don't know if you're trying to stay away from Spurs man. And they ended the season like and and four or something. They were rolling after won the championship, and we got in the first round, Like damn, I didn't even want in the first round, Like, ma, if we see him

in the Western Finals, will be ready for him. But and we saw him in the first round to me, that was the toughest Sea that I ever played against in the playoffs because they were so they were so like detail and you could have a shot for Bella Nelli after him not taking a shot the whole game popers to play for him at a time out when you just start to relax, you know what I mean. He made me pay for it, you know what I mean.

So they were always playing chess and Tim Dunkin was just unbelievable because while I was coming to his own at that time, it was actually maybe monitors last year possibly, if I'm not mistaken, I think the following the following year he might have. I think he fought to retire. But they were saying like when we beat them, that was like the end of their dynasty, you know what I mean, that team and that was kind of the end of their run. And that really showed us at

the time. You know, it's like, should we just beat the defending champions, like we you know, we had the what it takes to win this, but we just again we never just we we can never get over there. And Matt and Matt. After we beat them, we go up three one on Houston Sobot to the Western Finals against the team we just put out a year or two before, you know what I mean. So we're about to win this thing? Yeah, no, it was, it was.

It was all too good to be true. Next lot um, you know, So you when when it's all, when it's all said and done. Um, you got twenty years in this game. Um, are you at peace with that? I mean, your motherfucker's gonna be playing until your sixty already know that. But you at peace with three six Man of the Years awards, twenty years under your belt, and just the

legacy you left. I'm at peace with it, but I still feel kind of robbed, to be honest with you, Like, I know for a fact these last couple of years, I could have played in helped the scene in whatever role. If they were playing ten minutes of games, they're playing five minutes a game. If they're playing you're not gonna play, but we may save you for the playoff whenever it might be. I know I could have helped, And that

part kills me. And then you look at somebody like the marketsol and shouts to him, he just reached twenty thousand points. And I remember when we went out to eat a couple of years back or few years back, and we were talking about that, both of us getting twenty thousand points, and I'm like, I'm less than six

hundreds away. I'm like fives and change. I'm like, damn if I will play any one these seasons they said I didn't play, I could have easily had that, and that easily right, and already like to I have the most points to ever be an All Star. But I think that's like legacy to be a guy that predominantly came off the bench his career and get twenty thousand points. It would be this close to it and not get it because of you know, for myself, it's crazy. Yeah,

call it what it is. Politics. Yeah, it's crazy. So I'm at peace overall, but I still feel a little Rod. Yeah, well, I mean I think you touched on it earlier. Remember when we first came in the league, whether the Vets were playing or the Vets were just there to make the place better, there was Vets, you know, And now your Vets are thirty one, thirty two years old, Like they don't have the older players that I think are

missing from this game. Not from a standpoint of just so much production, although they can still produce, but just helping these young kids alonge, they don't have that. Nor the average age of the league is so much younger now than it was when we came in the league, and that if, like you said, if if it was still what it was, you would have definitely reached twenty thousand points and got to play more seasons. But for some reason, they just don't have room for vets no more.

And it's crazy because how could you not want to learn from vets. Right If I'm if I'm a photographer, a young photographer in the game trying to shoot the NBA, and I can learn from Andy Burnsty, Like, why would I not do that? If I'm if I'm an athlete crossing over to this side, why would I I come talk to you guys first and tell me how these work,

how it goes, Like that's what vets are for. Like and especially when you have vests that want to get back to the next generation, they want to help somebody go from point A to point B, right, like you have these guys willing to do that. There's no reason that Isaiah Thomas and Bookie Cousins and lakes In Galloway and Kyle Corver. These guys are not in the league.

It's there's no reason for it. And it's it's sad because you know, like I said, you don't know what you don't know as a young player, right, So if you can learn from these guys and take me out of If you can learn from these guys, and they're all years, they've seen these guys growing up, how could you not take advantage of that? And it's just it's unbelievable to me, and I think it's wrong. It's just wrong.

So you also on your way out, you know, set some milestones, drop fifty one as a thirty nine year old bitch off the bench, which they've never been done, and then one of only twenty nine players in the history of the game to play into their forties. You know, when you hear little little pieces like that, what does it mean to you? Well that that backstory about that

last game. I needed twenty five and the reason why is they showed me a graphic in Kareem, Kobe and myself for the only three to play in the nineteenth year and try to get twenty five and three straight games. So I had twenty five and Dallas going into the fourth quarter. I remember before the game, Nico Harrison was there, GP was there, all the greats were there because it was Dirk's last home game and I told g P and and you could ask if you guys see him.

I told him in the layup Li, I'm like, I'm put on the show tonight. And I didn't even know it's gonna be fifty. I didn't think it was possible to score fifty off the bench. I didn't think there was enough time in the game. But i got twenty five on the fourth quarter, and I'm like, I'm really

just stopped to go now. And then I had thirty eight with eight minutes to go, and that's when it was like, this is a fifty point nine and that that's when it just like took off and went in for Dirt to mention me in his speech for my teammates and look for me for coach to draw plays. You used to get lost in the game, like you really feel like you're out there by yourself, like you just shooting, and that's got lost in the game. My feet could be off balanced and my shoulders to get

a different way. You just need space at that point, and you feel like it's going in and that's what happened, and I thank God for it because like Cold rest in peace, Cold playing his last game, So that's sixty. He was gonna get his numbers. He was going for it. I didn't know that was gonna be my last I didn't know it was gonna be my last game, you know what I mean. Like I was just going just to to hoop and in the season on the right way.

So yeah, that was that was crazy that that's the last official game I played, And what better way to go out. Yeah. Absolutely had a pit stop in in with the nets. Uh due to injury. Wasn't able to perform. So hey, due to the weight room, Matt, you know all the lift weights and jack. They tried, they tried to put you in there. Fam, listen, so I come out. I've been home for sixteen months, right. I don't want to be the guy who's like, oh, I'm not doing

that at this but everybody's lifting weights. It's the routine. So I'm like, all, I'm gonna live. That's not your game though, But Fam, as soon as I got that way, when I felt it, I said, oh, family, this is why I don't It's the best defense I've ever seen was their way room. Yeah, and I came up short. Oh that was it? Hey but fair, But I had five fours and three sis in five minutes A gains

the team I was rolling. I was cool. But that way where you developed, you touched on it earlier, but kind of getting breaking down the relationship you built with MJ playing pickup games and and um, you know just the kind of relationship you had with him when he was coming back to the Woodchard as well. Yeah, so my dad, I was going through the draft process. My dad was telling me like, MJ, like your game, Like, man, you know that, Like this ain't social media, this ain't

this era. How you don't know Michael Jordan's right. So fast forward. I get drafted by Chicago and Tim Brower hit me one day. It was like yo, MJ says you can meet him. And I'm like what He's like, Yeah, he says you can meet him. So I I shoot down there six in the morning. I shoot down and get a game that day actually, and I get to hoops and it's myself, m J and Tim Brover in the gym and I'm trying not to talk because he's

doing his workout. So when he talks to me, obviously I speak back, but I'll never forget he was four years old. He's about to come back, and he's doing defensive slide drills, and so he's talking. He's like, yeah, when the season is over, you could, you know, and the some weep work out with me. I'm like, all right, coul I get I leave there. I could seven in the morning. I call everybody back home. Right in the West Coast is only five any more? So nobody picks up.

But I'm telling a j guy, I'm like, yo' she met Michael Jordan's and so fast forward. And my dad tells me later on he said, the reason I knew it was because obviously he went to Oregon. Remember I told you guys that a milera shot Myra Shaw went to Oregon with him and a Mira shot in Jordan like this. So Mara Shot was the one of telling him that. Yeah, he was telling him that Mja like my game when he's an executive for the Wizards. But

we got tighter, like my confidence. That's what set the foundation from my whole career, because my confidence went crazy once I was around him and playing with him and him giving me off, It's like, yo, you got it. And this wasn't just a young player or event telling me, even just an all star telling me I'm nice. This was the greatest player ever saying oh, I got it. So it was a whole different conference. So best memory or battle against Kobe and any off court stories you

have with him, oh man, so many. The first one that I really remember that Kobe acknowledged me was when we played in the Garden on a Sunday afternoon and he at the time became the youngest player and gets twenty thousand points. I was playing like ship in the first half. I think I had two points and I scored thirty one a second half and he came out and he gave me a five and said something to me after the game. He's like, well, how does the pistody?

That was his first time he acknowledgement on the court, like, Kobe, you never talked to me something like damn he knows, So I am like for real. And then another memory when I went to Atlanta who played the Lakers, and we beat him at home and he across the hall. Under Monica was back there, Shandon Brown was back there. I think they were gonna time and he was like, man, can't nobody go on that ship? And you know, I didn't really talked to him since that interaction to year Joyce.

I'm looking around, like who's he talking to? And he's like he's like, man, he's talking to me, like man, can't nobody girl out of him? Like he's like, man, you got the ball on the stream And he showed me loved like whoa y'all here, coach is talking to me like, you guys know Kobe got this or about him, Like it's totally different. Right. So that was the next time, and then um we were at Richard Services softball game and you know, we talked more that day than than

ever before. And I remember he told me stories about like Michael Jackson calling his house when he was a great mentor for him and Vanessa picking up like somebody saying Michael Jackson on the phone, like Kobe told me

out his own mouth, you know what I mean. So different stories like that, And I asked him when he comes to my pro and I finally got the courage and asked him, like yeah, and somebody from Nike, I'm not gonna say his name is like no, we gotta go back to l A. He's like, God, Jamal's playing on the come and so he brought his girls, he brought his whole family and came and watch me play. And that's my highest scoring game and winner of it was all because of him. And we just started communicating

all the time after that in our relationship really took off. Yeah, rest in peace called the great one. You're looking back now. We talked earlier, um about coaching your son. Where is your mind at right now with with with an NBA coaching job? Interest you coaching your son? Obviously something you do? Now what around basketball? Obviously we know you're gonna continue to have your summer league and give back to the community. But what in basketball interest you right now? What you've

been doing coaching? Like I've got an offers for NBA coaching jobs, I got an offers for NBA executive jobs from multiple teams, but I keep telling them my rather coach my son, Like this is a whole different thing. I love it, bro, It's it's unbelievable to me. Like I write out of practice plans at nighttime, Like I'll send them to you guys every single day. And what we're gonna work on. Like, I'm so invested in this

and I'm so into it. I was cool being the parents, just keeping the score and right, but then when you get into it and it's it's different. Now. When I watched games, I'm not watching them who's nice and who got game? I'm watching on the play how they got to that spot. I'm like, damn, I'm like, I'm really at coach now, like you know what I mean. I didn't see this for myself. So that's what makes it so cool. And just being around to you. I used

to see you when you were staying playing. I'm like, bro, you're gonna want to coach watch it, you know, because people don't understand when as busy as I am, bro, and I'm so busy, I always make time to coach my kids, and it's just a different kind of joy. I feel like. But I remember seeing you would come to watch yourself play, but you were still playing. I'm like, watch, you're gonna be coaches now. That ain't for me, fan,

that ain't for me. You said you said it, you absolutely said it, And it's different because it's it's your own like watching it right, so like having him and little William Colrood Jr. Like as a as a my nephew, like coaching those guys and all these other kids I've watched for three or four years on the same team, Like bro. My whole schedule is based around my practices and the team. That's where the god like everything is based around that. I'm always same position. Yeah, same position.

Um I t had a big, uh scoring game. I want to say, one of your last summer league games. Looks like it looks like he's healthy. Obviously you're a big brother mentor to him. You know where he's at in the process mentally, and and and and and his ability to possibly still play at this level. Yeah, he can definitely play at this level and help. I'm looking at the games. I'm seeing some of the guys on

the bench. I won't say no names, but I'm seeing different people and it's like they're just out there just feeling the time. It's not that I can really making an impact. And I know he can make an impact, you know, And I know he's in a good place mentally. I'm sure he's a little frustrated seeing the same things I'm seeing naturally, you know what I mean. Like we we both see that he could be out there helping. And I still think it's gonna happen for him, I

really do, but it's just it's messed up. He's in this position. But this is absolutely the healthiest he's been since it's been hurt. It's not just hype, it's not just talk. He's proved that everyone's playing. People that see him see that as well. Absolutely, man, we definitely wish the best for him. Quick hitters. First thing to come

to mind, let us know your thoughts. If you can watch any sporting event in the history, which one would it be and why Michael Jordan hit is last shot with the Bulls because that was just so iconic and it was the perfect ending, and he had people forget he scored with forty three seconds left, and he came down and got to steal and had to score again with the game winter ye like, and I think they

scored like eighty five. He had forty five of the points, So he scored eighty three forty five points with Pitt hurt. So I think that's the It was the perfect ending. It was if he had walked off, then had been the most perfect ending ever. So I think that's the one that vent v with you off the bench. Pick a starting five with your past teammates in their prime, their primes. Oh my gosh, you played with some motherfucker's too, man. So you sawing like Gray Hill, Pitty Hardaway prime. You

got you got five teammates that you played in their prime. Chris, no interest, you gotta. I'm you know what, I'm gonna do it this way. It's gonna be easier for me. I'm gonna do ones that were all ahead of me, so like older than me. I'm not gonna do the Roads and the CPS and those guys. So I'm going I'm gonna go with Scottie Pippen, a small forward. I'm going with Penny at the point, grand Hill m hm. Those three, Um, that's offense and defense. With those three,

that's everything. Yeah, that's everything. And then places now trying to go everybody older than me, so I don't have to really put the pressure on four um Charles Open at the floor mhm, and at the center. Or if I could get another forward you could go with. I'm gonna switch it that. I'm going Steph Penny Grant pipping it open. I'm just everybody. Yeah, I'm everybody over. Yeah. Nice, And that's that. And that's Stephan Marbury, Yeah, Steph. I didn't play with Steff step almost And of course you

could say CP blay all those guys. But I'm just going to rows too on your list. That's why I didn't go Nobody. Yeah. Yeah. Top three sports movies in your opinion above the realm mm hmm. I gotta go a pock Um. He got Game, remember the Titans. He got Game. I just felt like it was my life, like in high school, how you start blowing up and stuff, so I could really relate to him. To Ray in Jesus, Yeah, I don't think the three best is three. They come to mind. Yeah, it's that's solid top five. If you

have to pick five dinner guests. Wait, I'm going Andre three thousands, I'm going my mom, I'm going pot mm hmmm, I'm going mom. Try all right, jay Z and Obama, that's a nice table. One album, one album you can listen to and repeat, no skips. Life after Death. That was easy. Yeah, I got the classic. All right, it's the last question. You should know what it is. Since you asked the show. You can have one guest on All the Smoke, who would it be? Yeah, you better

know my mood. Oh, hey, you know what, I don't want to get him in. Craig Hodges, I and I talked to him both. I talked to Craig Hodges when I was doing the speaking engagement in Chicago. We had I got his line night I talked to about mood in the Big Three about coming on the show Man. So we definitely need to get both of them. Yeah, yeah, we definitely need but you also if I have to slash d Hey, we need to help with the So my my ass is gonna be for you is we

need to help with d Rose and be Roy. We know we might have to come out to Seattle to get b Roy, but you got to come out. Yeah, you gotta come see how to give be. But I would say just to come in, I would say, Mom, moved to d Ros good call. Yeah all right, Jamal Man, we appreciate you, but man, this was everything, And again we're definitely gonna try to make it out to the program impossibly sitting down with you in person and really

highlight everything you're doing out there. Man, We appreciate you. We love career, Bro. Appreciate your dog, Bro. Appreciate I mean, great player, but even better person man. And that really to me, that goes a long way. Man. So give our best to the family. We appreciate you. And now you can watch your own episode on All the Smoke. Bro Hey, over and over repeat. Hey man, that's a wrap.

Thank our guest Jamal Crawford Jack. Good show. We can catch this on Showtime Basketball, you YouTube, and the I Heart platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next week. This is All a Smoke, a production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime