Welcome back All the Smoke season five. Jack. I think we're here about a year ago and we get to finish off the job today. Yep with one of one of the most talented people, uh, a woman of many hats, actress, producer, director, business woman. I learned that you used to want to direct videos.
Oh yeah, all that.
Don't get into all that. Welcome to the show.
Thanks Jada, Thank you for coming, Thank you for having me.
And again, happy belated birthday.
Thank you.
So you hung out with the family just kind of cheer for your birthday.
Yeah, we could. You know, we got to kick it. I mean that's the best. You know, keep as simple and spend quality time with the people you love. It just gets real simple as you get older.
What it's about? Yes, everything slows down a little bit. How is life? How is the family? How is everything going right now?
Life is great? Good, family is fantastic. So you know when you catch those waves you just ride, did you know how that goes?
Yes?
You know, up and down.
You mentioned in your book something that you're looking for that industry structible love for yourself. Yeah, what is that? Talk to us about what that journey has been like and the ups and downs that kind of had you struggling with that.
Well, you know, that was the whole purpose of me writing the book was really to talk about my journey from feeling unworthy to worthy, right, And so as I talk about in the book, I kind of go back into my childhood, you know, being the blessed child of two addicts, right, and so that kind of set up a false concept in my formative years of not feeling worthy because I wasn't a priority to either of my parents, you know, their addictions came before me, right, And so
that kind I kind of carried that with me through my adulthood and then on top of it to talk about in the book all the different traumas that came and all of that stuff. And so I really wrestled in my adult life just trying to figure out what love was, how to feel loved, you know, and when you don't you don't know. When you don't feel loved and you don't feel that that place of feeling cherished, understood, seen, and you don't know how to do it for yourself,
then you just left with a lot of voids. And you think that success, marriage, children, you name it all the out, but you know all of the things. So yeah, all the stuff that looks good is gonna make it right, you know, and you think that there's no substitute for it, and you think success is going to Like I remember coming to Hollywood and like, you know, being young and being hungry and then coming to Hollywood and starting a climb,
and I'm like, why do I still feel bad? This is supposed to cure everything.
That's what they say.
That's what they say, you know. And so once that didn't happen, I was like, well, then what the hell does all this mean? And then I was like, oh, Will came along and I was like, oh, well, maybe it's that maybe I need a man, maybe I need to get married, maybe I need to have family. And when that didn't do it, it's like and then finally, you know, forty years old, just had a complete utter, you know, just hit a wall and had the most
just one of the darkest times in my life. Suicide suicidal thoughts wasn't the first time, but I struggled with that for a long time and I hit that wall and that's when I really had to start going on a serious journey.
Addiction is prevalent in both of our backgrounds. You know, both my parents were addicts, but I felt like they were functioning. We still never went without, We still were clothed and took care of got our homework done. But growing up in the early eighties, I saw everything, you know what I mean. And now at forty three, I'm
in two different kinds of counseling. Not that I really knew thought I needed because in our community it's not really talked about it cool or anything, but kind of really just unpacking understanding the person I am today is because of the traumas or you know, some of my defaults today or some of the traumas that I dealt with as a four or five, six, seven, you know, early teen, and kind of unpacking that you guys have
always been kind of on the main stage. Everything is always out there, good times, bad times, going back and just kind of writing all that and really opening up and obviously taking control of your own narrative, but really kind of going back and writing about that stuff. What kind of memories good and bad did that kind of bring up along the process.
Which part, like, you know, it's like man like having to go through my entire life on this line of worthy it was you know, it was probably one of the hardest things I've ever done, having to really you got to look at your life on paper. That's daunting, that's daunting, and I had to really look at some really painful stuff. And you think, I was like, I thought I'd dealt with this, you know, I thought I've reconciled this, and you feel all the intense feelings coming
up again. It's just like, damn, all right, well you go here we go.
Was there a weight lifted? Was there any one kind of like was there? First of all? Was there weightlifted? But then also at the same time, like I'm really revealing myself, I'm a little was there a little like hesitation or scared of that at the same time, you.
Know, the only part that I felt hesitation around was talking about POC. That's always been something I kept close to the chest.
And I.
Because he left here, he left without saying so much, and I, you know, I was just like I really struggled with that. I was like, how much? How how are you going to tell this story that has occurred
between the two of you? And what Because I mean, Pack has shared a lot of his life story, but he didn't really share a lot about our story, and I understand why at the time, but that was the only part that I was really like, and I felt like I had his blessing, and I felt like so much time has passed and so many other people in
his life have had some healing time. So I was like, Okay, I think I think if I just venture and tell our story, I think people will have a better understanding also of what our friendship was about, you know, because people have this concept that you know, he and I were like romantic and that wasn't the case at all.
Yeah, reclaiming your narrative is big. I mean, you've had Red Table and obviously the tabloids have always been in your business. But but but why is that so important now?
As far as reclaiming, Yeah, I think it's had more to do with you know, women aren't really given the permission or the luxury to share their the depth of their journeys. I think that a woman's journey is still very taboo, meaning like a woman's journey should be neat, nice, not messy. Uh fall in line of what is supported
of how do you say it? Like patriarchal construct and understanding? Right, And so I feel like, but it's so important that women are allowed, that women allow themselves to talk about their journeys, embrace every bit of it, and learn to love every bit of it. That's part of the healing of being whole. Time may there you go, right, And so I felt like everything I've been through, I've been
through the gauntlet. There's not much else anybody can really say, you know what I mean, And so I felt like I've earned being able to put it all on the table. For women out there who are really in a struggle, who need to be seen in a certain manner, not to just say, hey, pray on it, go home and meditate, right to see it in real time, it's like no, no, no,
this happened. You saw when that happened to me. This is what was going on, this is what I was doing, right, So you get to see like a beginning, a middle, and an end right of just like the journey, like just little pieces of my journey. Right. So really, for women out there to just go it's okay, and guess what, it's all part of getting to your self worth, you know, and it's not easy and it's not going to be pretty, and that's okay.
Too, that's okay.
Yeah, And for you and for you to be saying that, like to have a book called worthy and for you to try to find your worth and you mean so much to us and our customs. It's so many people. I was telling them yesterday. I was like, what pac is to the females. You've been there to us since I was since I was in high school, you know what I mean. So so to say for you to write a book about being worthy, it's hard to touch a lot of people to start. I think that, especially
the way I feel about you, you know, but it is. Yeah, we'll be fans, be fans. Yeah, but it's gonna touch a lot of women because even though you was going through so much, you didn't didn't didn't look.
Like it at all.
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm hoping it do't touch a lot of women. I'm hoping it'll touch some men too, in regards to like specifically, when I talk about what I've survived, when I talk about the kind of dope male support I've had in my life, like I don't think, like I'm so, we don't we don't really celebrate when men come into our lives with that masculine, just container like I'm here, I got you, you know what I'm saying, and like to really show what that looks like for
a woman, right. And there have been so many men in my life that have showed up in real time, in real time and really helped me along on my journey. So it's not just you know, we need our we need our men, We need our brothers, we need our uncles,
we need our cousins, you know what I'm saying. And so also to just be able to have a moment to celebrate those men who came into my life and those little moments, whether it was Keenan Ivory WANs, you know who was like, no, you will not perjure yourself going to life for this food in court, you know what I mean. I was about to do it. I was about to do it. He sent me some pictures like I'm gonna send you these pictures, changed the date on them. Sad was out there with you. I was like,
not a problem. I'm gonna figure this out. And Keenan just happened to overhear me and he was like absolutely not. I was like, what what you mean? You know what I'm saying. So like at certain pivotal moments in my life where those father figures, those brother figures came in. You know, it's been, it's been imperative.
Yeah, let's move to Baltimore. Okay, raised my mother and grandma and grandmother. I wasn't growing up. I know a lot about Baltimore. Like we all talk, we just said, let's go the upbringings. We are from those areas where it ain't no playbook. You're gonna you're gonna make a lot of mistakes and you're gonna figure out, you're gonna learn the hard way a lot, but a lot, especially me and him, I know, we wouldn't change that for nothing because it made us who we are.
That's right.
A lot of people love me because of the way I stand and how solid I am, and I got all that.
From my upbringing. Right, So, Baltimore to you, what does it mean?
I have a chapter in my book called University or to be more Streets.
It's funny you say that because we say ust University of Show Texas.
That's what we are.
Oh god it But I mean that was an imperative university for me, right, I don't think without that university I would have been able to come out to LA at eighteen years old on my own and figure it out right. It was like those streets taught me, like what real wolves look like, not the fake ones. You know, the Hollywood flex is Like, I'm cool on that, you know what I'm saying. So I could really hold my own from the gate in regards to really being able to navigate that world, you know, I have, So I
really I appreciate. I tell my mother all the time, never feel guilty about any of it. You were the perfect mother. You were the mother I was supposed to have for what is what my fate, how my fate has been designed right, and what that prepared me for. But I love Baltimore. Baltimore me who I am. You know, made me scrappy, made me smart, made me a fool in some cases, you know what I mean. But I love Baltimore, you know, and I have much gratitude for what Baltimore has given me.
The quote you got to be more careful.
You've got to be more careful. It's murderers.
A lot of people know about a.
Lot of people know about that now, yeah they do.
Before you telling your story.
Yeah yeah, And so I learned I learned a lot of that the hard way, you know, just like I talk about it a lot in the book, just about you know, how I used to hustle and.
How did they come into play.
I mean, we all know trying to survive and trying to make a better way for yourself. But it's always that one person that kind of puts you in the game, that kind of ushered you into the game.
Yep, I know. I talk about it a lot in the book.
You know.
It's like, you know, there was a young dude name check Prichardo who uh really put me on on like when I started to get more serious about it, if that's even what you want to call it, you know, if that's what you want to call it, I don't know if you call it serious. I mean, but it was like when I really thought I was on my way to become a queen, you know, and a lot of it just you know, I you know, we talk
about it all the time. It was it was just I've always been one that wanted my own I didn't want to be just the hustler's girlfriend, Like I'm not doing that, nah. I got to figure this out, Like I want my own power. I want my own situation and at the time to being really concerned about man, is my mom going like what am I going to do if this doesn't if she don't make it, you know. And so I went to the streets and it's okay, for a minute, I can't picture I'm trying to, right,
I can't picture it either. But that's what happened. It was like I was posted up this spot called Cherry Hill. Cherry Hill is like in Baltimore. It is it's a peninsula, so it's one way in and it's one way out, but it's the projects, right, And so I was able to find a spot at the bottom of a hill. Everybody was at the top, so everybody had to go to the top to be served. And I was like, well, I'm gonna just gone, Yeah, I'm gonna just go to
the bottom. Down here in an apartment, I had my homeboy, who I call him BP I believe in the in the book I had. I was under his wing, his protection. He also worked for chet right, but he was my homeboy. And so I posted up an apartment down there and then I got set up one day two MENTI meters to the head. It was like, oh, are you really built for this? You know?
And was it a sexy hustle like a tom Boy hustle? Like what was your vibe back to.
Tom Boy hustle for sure, because.
She looked more like the dope boy's girl. Yeah, I'm trying to picture it.
It was at that time, believe it or not, like I was really you know, I coutite. Look, I was going to Baltimore School for the Yards. Nobody would ever that was the whole thing. Nobody would ever imagine. I think that I would do something like that, you know, and so but I was, and you know, I definitely got into some sticky situations. You know that I feel grateful to have survived. And that's when I knew there was a God for sure. That's part of it.
Wake up between the hustle, where did you find the love for dance and theater that came?
See that was already established, that was established, like started at three years old, you know what I'm saying. So I got to be practically raised by my grandmother who made sure I had tennis classes, tap dance, ballet, piano lessons. Like the first part of my life was really in the midst of my grandmother who you know, she was like a black social like, you know. And then once she passed and my mother got a divorce and it was just she and I and she went deep into
her addiction. That's where my life flipped. And I was about thirteen.
Then, yeah, take us back to your first international pop Baltimore School of Arts. He said his charisma was infectious. What was his Who was he when you first met him?
He was he was just such a charismatic. He was just so charismatic. And I remember walking in, you know, I'm coming in fashionably late. I'm Jada. I'm just mobbing in there, you know, and he's over in the corner, you know, just entertaining a group of people. And this was his first year. This was my throde second year. And I walked in and as soon as I walked in, he zoned in on me. And I was like, who was that peanut head over there? And he came right towards me and he was like, Hi, I'm Tupac, and
I was like, too, ba. The first thing I thought was Tupac. Kind of wow, that is a powerful name, Tupac. And I was like, Hey, I'm Jada, Nice to meet you. And we were inseparable from that moment on.
I think something that's overlooked now because everything is so dramatized of just how intelligent he was, how smart he was, and early on, how he had you reading books and learning about people he knewn Angela Davis to name a few. Uh, he was very passionate in the end of that obviously, but what did that kind of No one could really talk me into reading back in the day, still barely to myself.
But oh he was an avid reader, huh. Like he was like Pac was a sponge. He was brilliant. He really was brilliant, right, and from day one, and that's that was the aspect of him that I loved most, you know, and he really put me on game because I grew up more my grandmother was more of a civil rights activist, right, I didn't really know much about the black power movement.
And.
Pac just talked about the conditions of black people all the time in regards to like systemically right, and he would have these long like I mean literally just these lectures that I got to sit and just listen to Pac and all of you know his knowledge, you have to remember, I mean a thing he was his mother, who was a brilliant woman, brilliant. She was brilliant, strong and highly intelligent, you know, And so that was why he was such an avid reader. That's why he was
up on so much material in books. And we loved kind of going back and forth with each other, going toe to toe, you know, because we both had sharp minds, you know, we both loved to learn, both passionate, and so that was really just having a friend to just kind of bounce off in that way and bounce off with and about so many different things from you know, Angela Davis to Shakespeare to Van Gold to like, he had such a so many interests in so many different areas. You know.
Welly to represent herself in the major court case, she had to be intelligence.
Yeah she was bad in that time.
Yeah, she had to be intelligent.
She was bad. She was bad.
Before jumping into acting, share with us mentioned at the top your passion for directing music videos and any truth to you were thought of the concept and theme and I supposed to direct California Love who talked to us about.
That, Yeah, I talk about it in the book. So Dre Drey and I had a meeting and I came up with the concept for California Love, just kind of like you know, that Mad Max Black Mad Max version, and we were ready to go. I got a call from Easy. Easy, at this particular point in time, was hospitalized and I hadn't talked to him in a minute, and he hit me up and he was like, I heard you're supposed to be doing this video with Dre. He said, I don't think you should be on that
set because should go be there? And I was like, I didn't even think about that, you know. I was so excited to work with Dre, and I totally forgot about the affiliation that he had with Sugar at that time. And he was like, you know, Easy was like, please don't you don't you don't want to be in the mix of that Jada, you know. And I was like, all right, all right, cool, because you know me and e were we were. That was that was my dude. I talk about our friendship in the book as well.
And so I had to tell Dre. You know, I came up with some diplomatic excuse of what to the video. Now. What's interesting, I wouldn't have been able to do the video anyway, because they decided This was before Pac, and remind you, this was before Pak was on California Love. It was just Drey, So they decided to pause and put POC on the track. Now, there's no way in the world Park was gonna let me be in the video,
said directing nothing that he was in anyway. So once Pac found out, once he was on the track, found out I was supposed to be directed the video, he would have cut that anyway. So it wasn't meant for me to do period, you know, but I did it. William said he killed it. I wouldn't have been able to do what he did.
That's interesting it all worked out video hip Hop Revolution.
We always say that hip hop and music is like the soundtrack to our life, especially when we came up.
What does hip hop mean to you?
I have a really interesting relationship with hip hop now specifically, I had a lot of reconciling to do that I'm still in the process of because and I talk about this extensively in the book. Once Pac was murdered and just how it all went down, I really I really lost. Like I didn't want anything to do with hip hop. I'll just put it like that. I don't want nothing to do with it. I just felt like I just felt like it was all so unfair. And I go into detail in the book just about all of it,
and I was really pissed. I was like, fuck all this, fuck the streets, fuck all these fake ass gangsters, fuck everybody. I was mad. I was really mad, and I really just decided, like I'm not with none of that, you know, but I still have so much love for like how hip hop's how hip hop really helped formed, helped form me. You know, when I think about rock Him, I think about Eric Ba rock Him. When I think about Salt and Pepper, when I think about MC light, but I
think about rock Sane Chante, She's a runaway. I mean, you know, like the Z three MC's. I mean, we could go on and on and on. It's like I grew up on hip hop substances, yeah right, and it's like it helped form me. It helped form my whole, like my whole get down. So when I think about the hip hop that raised me, that's a whole different story. Much love, much respect, so important, you know.
Fingers hell.
Yeah, I mean that's I talk about that in the book. It's like when you got to hear all, you know, just booming out the systems in the in the neighborhood, you know, or going to Druide Hill Park and all the cars, you know, just seeing all the dope cars in the city, you know what I mean, Like it's a big block party. It was definitely a middle finger to like, we are going to make it out of here.
We deserve the best of life as well, and fuck you, it's gonna happen, right, And it was a constant reminder of our worthiness, you know what I mean. So the hip hop of that era for me kept me strong.
Foundation, yeahs, destruction, all that.
I love it. So it kept me strong, It kept me fiery, kept me motivated.
Did Tupac influence you musically? Like did he try to get you to Oh yeah.
I talk about that in the book. He tried to Oh man, Pac tried to put me in this this female you know, this battle rap group. Now mind you I you know this is Pac. He's like trying to coach me. He's right in my rhymes, but I don't, you know, I don't have the cadence, Like I'm not a rapper, Like that's one thing I can't do right. And he used to get on me. He was like, you are not on beat, Like what is wrong with you? But imagine Pak trying to teach me to rap like him?
Crazy possible, right, I'm like, come on, but I did one rap battle. We got through it, we won, saying and I was like, that's it, Park, I'm done right. Don't like we didn't have, you know, the cell phones and all that. Ain't no footage of that one.
Yeah yeah.
Coming to Hollywood from Baltimore, I thought your shot. Oh yeah, talk about coming here to Hollywood, arriving here from Baltimore and how you know, the ups and downs, how different it was. You already got a chip on your shoulder because you're coming from Baltimore. This shark Q chick young don't know what's going on? You know, the wolves see you. It's food.
Yeah, that's crazy, it's you know, but it was the beast time, so you know, coming out to Hollywood, it was just like that.
That was that was a culture shock for real. It was just like what is going on out here?
You know?
And I wasn't used to having to play like coming from Baltimore. I never played the game of like oh I'm gonna snuggle up to you. Be nice, smile, be you know, cute. You know, I don't know, like the whole the whole idea was be pleasant. Let let's let the men around you think that you you know, you're available, right, And I'm like, I get you killed on the street. I don't do that, like no, like I like, if I'm going to do that, that's that's who gets that.
That's understood.
You don't he gets that you and me were here to do business. So you want me to read these lines because I'm just with, okay, cool, I'm gonna read these lines, and I'm up out of here right. I didn't know how to just like nice or just be nice, like, you know, I walk in there, like what's up? What this is it? Okay? Cool? You already great?
All right?
You know what I mean? So I had to learn how to like just kind of like, you know, get more, get the edges off, you know. And that took me a minute because I didn't understand. I didn't understand, like, no, that's I don't know what that's about. Like nah, I ain't trying to do all that. Plus, ain't none of y'all in here of any interest to me? So try to learn how to play the game. And then La was so different. You know, you got all these palm trees and I'm over there on like Venice and Losienaga
up the street from World on Wheels. To me, we cool. I didn't know. You know what I'm saying, It's like, oh, you can get got.
All around there, all around there.
I was like, what So I had to learn learn that. It's like just because it looks nice doesn't mean it ain't sweet. It's sweet.
Yeah.
So but that was, you know, it was definitely a learning curve coming out here.
Is it ever a picture or a picture that you have with you Nia and Holly Berry in the same photo.
I don't like the copy me.
Yeah no, I got some pictures like me and Nia and then me and Halle and not the three of us together. You talk about your friendship, you know, it's like it's an era where it was like you had you had the Regina Kings, the Nia and lngs Ali Berry. It was bohmen boom man, right. It was. It was a booming time and it just felt like we all had so much love and support for one another. We understood at that time a door that opened up for me was a door that was opening up for everybody
else as well. The door that was opening up for Halle, a door that was opening up for Nia. Right, that was a door for all of us. We all innately understood that, you know. So it was an era in which it was like, I really felt like there was really strong camaraderie amongst black talent as.
A whole, which is dope.
Yeah, And it was just it was a special time.
What do you think of Hollywood right now?
Just stay in Hollywood right now.
It's in the you know where it's a lot of change happening. Yeah, a lot of change happening. A lot of change happening.
But is it good change?
Well, I think industry wise, we'll see. As far as change in regards to what's happening amongst black talent, people of color, you know, there's still room for lots of improvement on both sides.
It seems like there's a lot of box checking right now for you know, big big projects to Okay, she's that, let's get her for this and see.
How that works exactly. Yeah, And so you know, I feel like, but I do feel like we got to kind of there's a really there's a bigger shift in the construct of Hollywood that's happening that we got to see where that's gonna land.
Ninety three.
Yeah, uh, you were in a epic movie directed by the Hughes brothers.
Yeah, how was that? And how was it getting that role? Well?
I got the role.
I could have played it, by the way, even though you're fifteenth, Yeah, fifteen, but I had a down pack.
All right, let me see I Pac Pac brought that role to me. Mmm, Pac brought that role to me. He's like, Yo, you gotta meet these these uh, these directors about to do this project. It's gonna be like the one John Singleton did, but it's you know, it's gonna be more real. It's gonna be you know. And I was like, well, you know, what is it? So he explained to me the role. He was like, he was telling me the role he's gonna play. And he's like I already told him you're my homegirl, so you
need to be up in this. And I'm like all right. Well, he's like, no, I want you to meet him. And I was like, like, you know, I'm doing different world, and you know, I need the audition. You don't need an audition they already know. So I'm like, okay, Pa, so right exactly. So you know, he got the he got me in there with him, and you know, we all got along. And then next thing I know is calling me telling me he's not doing the movie because he didn't got Tad with the brothers. I'm like, oh,
what you know? And what's crazy is that I didn't want. I was like, I can't do the movie if you're not doing the movie. I came in with you. You brought me in. If you leaving, I'm leaving. And he was like no, He's like, no, you gotta do this movie. I remember us getting into this like fierce argument. Now mind you, Debbie Allen had already gone and you know, to the producers of a Different World and really convinced them to let me do this movie because I'm still
shooting a Different World. She got my schedule all changed, you know, and working it out, and I remember going freak. But I didn't want to be on that set without pac you know, Glad, And he was like he he won the argument. And he's lucky because I couldn't go back to Debbie and be like, I'm not gonna do the movie now, you know. So I did it and he was right because he told me, he said, you need this. He's like, you need this for your career, you know, because I really didn't see what he saw.
I was doing it because we were going to be in a movie together, and I was just trusting his instincts. I didn't see what PAK saw. But he was like, no, you're gonna do this movie. You need this movie, blah blah blah blah.
And I was like, Ooh, did that make you feel worthy?
Oh yeah, I see it always?
I see what you talk about it always.
Now he could have his moment like we definitely. Here's the thing about POC. I could get in the worst arguments with him, but if I'm in trouble, he's gonna be there. He's coming. You know, he was coming. And I always could depend on that with him, you know, and he would pull my coattails. That's the thing. We both could just pull each other's coattails in a way that nobody else could.
We can fight, but nobody else can.
Yeah, He's like, I'm gonna say some shit to you, but I better not.
Hear nobody else say it.
I'm about to get in your ass.
You know. So Park's final year obviously goes to prison, gets involved with Sugar, and you had a kind of inclination from the jump. Just the vibe wasn't right with that situation. And as who you are, and like you said, you guys could say anything to each other. How was those conversations between you guys? And I heard he kind of tried to keep you away from it while he was in it. Speak to that a little well, Pack and.
I talk about that a lot in the book.
Poc.
Really he really kept me separate from all of it from the from the gate. I think people be surprised to know I never saw Tupac perform live.
Wow.
He never The thing about POC stuff was always jumping off, was always popping. So Pac was cool with I'm coming to your spot you can or you can meet me at my spot over here. But it wasn't any like We're going come to the club with me, go to the That was a no no because he was always like no, because I can't. I can't do both.
I gotta worry about myself, man, you know what I mean.
He's like no, So yeah, I was really concerned about shit. I was really concerned now, mind you, he was still in jail when he told me. I remember we were in Dani Mora. I talk about it in a book, and I was with Light and Neph for TD. We went up there to see Pac and Dana Mora and he said that he was going to sign with should and I remember saying, you know, all three of us were just kind of like, okay, you sure, you know, and he's like yeah, because he's he's willing to get
me out of here. And you know, because Pac had been waiting because of the nature of his charges, he refused to He was like, these these men need to come, need to come get me, specifically, these men who are making money off of me. That was his thing because a bunch of us had a bunch of us had just kind of you know, we we we flanked him. We were like, we'll get you out of here. We'll raise the money, you know, because it was a bunch
of us kind of starlits. He knew a lot of starlts, and we were like, we're here, we'll get you out. And he was like he was like no, no, no, he was like no, no. And so with Sure he felt like, look, this is I owe him three albums and I'm done, and I was like, so I said, I'm gonna come back tomorrow, so neph and like they left, and I drove back to Dana Moore the next day to just talk to him one on one.
And.
I knew I wasn't gonna be able to That wasn't my place to try to convince it me. He was locked up, he wanted out, so I knew I wasn't gonna win that battle. But it was once he got out and everything that transpired after that that I was just like, Hey, you don't have to be of this. Don't let people pray on your resentment and your anger.
So a lot of people might not know, but he proposed to he while he was in jail.
I talk about this in the book when I go to see him and Wrikers. When I wrote about that in the book, and when I had to talk about it speak my words for the audible version of the book, that was probably one of the more painful parts. Seeing him there, the condition that he was in, and having to leave him there, and he was in, he was, he was in, he was he was, he was in bad shape. And so when he asked me to get married.
He was at Rikers, and I knew at that time that A he needed somebody to do time with him, which I was gonna do anyway, and you have to marry me, right, I'm here, We love you and then too, but he needed a rock. He needed uh because of our friendship and because of everything we had been through together. He just wanted to feel that solidified foundation, you know, because I promise you he would have married me and divorced me as soon as.
Right, because so many people in that position don't have support, right, none at.
All, none, you know, and right he was just like, look and I just think it was the mind state that he was in, you know. He wrote me this long letter, and I think even before Park went to jail, he was starting to trent. He was starting to shift in a certain manner really good. And I think that for him, he just felt like, Okay, if I can tether myself, it'll keep me on a trajectory. But trust me, he would have. He would have divorced me as soon is he One thing he ain't want me as is
a wife. I know that for a fact, you know. But I think just being at Wrikers, it just.
Kind of shook them. You and park weren't on speaking terms of last year of his life. Can you tell us why and what that taught you?
Yeah, So, when I was talking about how we could pull each other's coat tails, I I just felt like he was off track a little bit, you know, and I'm I spoke on that and we got into a heated probably one of the most heated arguments we've ever had. And that was not Parka. Not getting into heated confrontations was not unusual, right, this was this happened to be a very heated one, and I didn't speak to him for a year. I was so, I was hurt. I was pissed, and I really kind of dug my heels
in the ground. I was just like, he went too far and he's gonna have to call me. Both that he's gonna he's gonna have to call me, and I'm standing in my ground on it, you know. And I learned that don't waste time like that. You know. It's like a whole year out of my you know, pride.
You know what I'm saying. It's just both of us very prideful, just hard headed prideful, you know, And because none of it mattered the day that I the when a Fanny called me, you know, when I found out he'd been shot again, I didn't give like and that whole converse and whatever was going on with Sugar and all that. It didn't matter. So why should it have mattered? For a whole year, it didn't matter. And surely once he was gone, you know. So I just learned, like, man,
don't hold on the bullshit. It's not worth it because you just never know.
And it's heavy too. Hold on this shit is just heavy. Yeah, it's heavy on your spirit. Red Table talk, you guys created the space, your mom, your daughter, and captivated the world. Talk to us about that.
Yeah, I think that table has been a powerful healer. I'm so grateful for that table and so grateful to you know, I was able to experience that table with my daughter and my mother, you know, and that table has taught me so much and it's shown me so much, you know, And yeah, so I'm grateful for it.
Yeah.
Yeah, she's deep. I love Jane. Yeah.
One of the episodes that shook the world, the Entanglement episode. Did anyone try to say, hey, don't do this or this is something that you felt obviously had to be done. Where were you? Where was you leading up to that episode?
You know, I felt like I had to go to the table. Now, what I clear up in the book is that Will wasn't supposed to be at the table. Okay, Yeah, Will was not supposed to be at the table. And I didn't ask Will to come to the table. Will wanted to come to the table. He didn't want me
to have to go through that by myself. And at that particular time, which I talk about in the book extensively, Will and I were not together and we came to the table, and what happened is that you really got to see a dynamic between us, you know, kind of like my codependency of like I will do anything at this time to make sure you're okay, even if it meant yeah, you know. But two things with that, So I'm like, this is your mess, So you got to take you got to do the time on this, You
got to take the heat on this. This is your mess, right, And then another like oh and then also, this is going to be an opportunity to see your dysfunction, m that you're about to see through the dynamic that's being exhibited at this table right now, right and so, But I also just wanted to shut the noise, own up to my part, even if it meant taking on a whole lot that wasn't mine, and move on and make sure everybody else was okay in it. No matter what,
I'm gonna be straight. But the biggest part of that table is that it showed me a part of myself that needed healing and a part of a dynamic within my relationship with Will that needed healing. And even though people told me, Jada, do not put this out, they begged me, Ellen included begged me everybody. They were like, this isn't true. You're throwing yourself under the table. Why would you do this? And I needed that because I
wouldn't have been able to see that dynamic. Now, you can make any choice you want to make, or to be unconscious any unconscious part in which why you're making the choice. I had to make that choice so that I could see the unconscious part. And I'm grateful, you know what I'm saying straight up for so many reasons.
Part of journey.
It's part of my journey, you know. And what I was able to strip, what I was able to learn and also with all of the shit that came my way and being able to be ten toes down just in my skin and be okay with it all.
Ugh.
But that's where it's at. That's where the true freedom is.
There, you go, We've never heard your perspective on the Oscar moment.
Hmm. Let me tell you that Oscar moment. There's a lot of perspective, which I talk about it in the book, The Holy Joke, the Holy Slap, and the Holy Lessons. You know, I look at it all. It's like this is just big one, one big university, and I don't have any judgment on any of it. I'm supposed to. It did what it did, it happened, you know. I don't have any judgment on any of it. You know, and and have a lot of thoughts about it. You know, I have no judgment on any of it.
We live in an era now with social media, and you know you've chose to with the Red Table kind of open up a deeper side and show another side. Obviously with your book you're showing another side. How do you and your family, particularly your kids, deal with all the noise?
My kids are so gangster like if they you want to talk about some writers like they really and I think also they'd be like, that's y'all stuff, Like their generation is not thinking about what's happening over here, you know, it's just not so they just have They just kind of have a real They kind of glide above it all.
In their own world.
And they're in their own world and on top of it, they know who their parents are. They know they love us for what we are. They know we're not perfect. They've been living in the house with us, in the ship with us, you know what I mean, and they love us both deeply and so because of the experience that they have with us one on one, they don't all of that is just noise. They don't really pay it any mind because they know what's happening. They know what's going on.
It's it's real.
With being the icon and the legend and the queen you are, now, is it anything else you want to achieve, like personal goals?
Anything on the bucket lists?
I think just on the bucket list to like keep seeing the code, you know, as far as keep seeing what is true and what's real within and without meaning like dough everything that I've been through when you get to see what's really going on. It just frees you up, you know when you realize, like, oh, there's people out here talking crazy about you, but it ain't stealing your
oxygen and your heart is still beating you straight. You know what I'm saying, It's like, all right, that's on you, like you know, it's like and just keep curing, like deepening that level of self worth, keep curing that self judgment because at the end of the day, there is no weapon of judgment that can be forced against you if your self judgment is in check.
Love your first.
You gotta love yourself first, and you can't expect everybody like who's going to love He's gonna love you. This world is fickle. So if we're looking for people out here to give us something we can't give ourselves were
all the time, you know what I mean. You gotta be good with you people out here struggling trying to figure out how to be good with themselves, you know what I'm saying, And just deepening that knowledge and having that compassion and having that love because the deeply, the more deeply I can love myself, the more deeply I can love others. And I find the utmost, the utmost joy in that.
But you know, when you when you doing service to others genuinely, that's the highest act that you can give anybody.
There it is that's in the Bible.
So that's the highest act of charity. It's caring about it doing something with somebody else that don't.
Benefit you straight up.
So what would you tell your younger self if you go back?
I would tell her so many things. I think the first thing I would tell her is that God is real. Please know that. That'd be number one. It took me so long. I think I was freaking forty before I realized how real God is.
Super real.
Yeah, when people think of Jada Pikett Smith, what do you want them to think of for me? Like I said, We've been worshiping you and having you on a pedestal for so long because of your work, because of who you are, because you're a beautiful person.
We just admired you for so long.
So what Like, I know what I think when I say, but when you want when people see you and think of you and your name come up, what you want to think or say?
What would you think would be the worst come?
I think you know what? Whatever is real for them.
Whatever they feel, whatever.
They feel, it's all good. It's like I can have it all, you know what I mean. It's like I can have the honor, I can have the disrespect, i can have the consideration, I can have the lack of consideration. I can have it all. And I'm gonna love you anyway. It's all good. I'm gonna be all right. It's all good. So I'm just grateful when someone has those beautiful words, I'm gonna be grateful. I'm gonna put that in my pocket,
and I'm gonna say thank you, you know. And I'm gonna be grateful when somebody doesn't have such beautiful words.
All right.
It's to give and take. It's all good, all right. We're coming down to the quick hitters. Now, first thing that pops up in your mind, let us know. Top five most impactful women.
Oh my gosh, top five most in your life, even in my life. Grandmother number one, my grandmother, my mother. Your twin got to be like my mother, my mother, Debbie Allen. Five my mother, my grandmother, Debbie Allen. Pack for women, my daughter Willow. It's another one. There's an Indian Saint Ananda mighty. She's impacted my life greatly too.
I forgot to ask earlier, you uh done something I've always wanted done? And how? Well?
Not?
How was ayahuasca? I'm scared?
I want to do it.
I want to do it. I forgot to ask how was it? Well?
You know, if you want, how long has it been calling you?
Like? Three? Four years? Five years old?
You've been calling you that? Okay, I talk about my journey. I've been doing ayahuasca now since I was forty. That's been it's twelve years, right. I wouldn't say that it's a plant for everybody. I'll start there and how I got introduced to ayahuasca, And I would not say that this is a remedy for depression. But when I hit that wall at forty, that was my first journey and it was brutal. It was brutal, but I never had
a suicidal thought ever again. After that was four nights? Wow, wow, four nights.
Did you go out to like the jungles or somewhere else?
I went. I went to OHI. I didn't go to the jungle. I went up to OHI. Yeah, I went to this jungle. It is right, but yeah, I went.
To old is good enough for me on the tree.
Yeah, and I mean, and that's true. It's like that really know us for you know, when it calls you, it calls you when it doesn't. It's not that it's not for everybody.
Number changed, it changed, okay, Yeah, good for you.
One actor roll you wish you could have, You could have had, probably.
Not supposed to get you know.
Yeah, yeah, what's for you?
It's for you anyway.
Ain't nobody getting away of that one hobby or interest people wouldn't know about.
You that people wouldn't wouldn't know. I love to bake.
Oh, really should go to seven upcake okay, okay, hold up? Okay, yeah we call it upside down cake.
Yeah. I love seven upcake and I can throw down on a seven upcake.
Okay.
Yeah that's the Baltimore that's that thing.
Yeah.
Oh this question laying on there, who your so your best friend? Like who knows all your tea?
Oh?
Who knows all my tea that you guys would know?
Yeah?
Okay, who would know all my tea that you guys know?
It's like your homegirl, you have a glass of.
Wine with Lauren London.
Lauren London. Yeah, I just seen it not too long ago.
Yeah, sneak ahead, favorite sneak of all time.
Favorite sneak of all time. Okay, hold up, that's a.
Hard one.
Colored rebox Princess cut.
Colored Rebox Princess cut.
Yeah, because we used to in Baltimore. So what we used to do. We used to get Russell sweatsuits. Okay, so you get mustard yellow, red, purple, and you could get rebox that mats.
Otherwise the soldiers.
Yeah, oh oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah right there. Yeah, that's like like a rebox classic rebox for me is where's that?
That?
Ain't nothing but early? Take a bot, take a shoe, and what's the other shoes? They had to strap with the strap on Giuseppe shoes. That's the early version of everything is recycled.
Your dream red table, your team plus five people that are alive. Who's at your table?
My dream red table? So you're talking about.
Guest wise, Yeah, just people you just want to sit up and have a good conversation with, have a glass of wine, to have a great conversation with. Smoke woman. Yeah, I mean we got a lot of the If we make the table, we might be able to bring something to it.
I'm trying to think my train red table. That's a let me let me flip this, Okay, flip it.
Five dinner guests dead are alive. So you plus five at dinner that are alive dead or.
Alive dead or a live pock. Some one would love to sit pack down. He'd have to be there. Damn, you got me stumped. Hold up, hmm, that might be yeah, have Marian, have Marian come through my grandmother? Maybe also Karen Armstrong. Karen Armstrong is oh yeah, bring Karen Armstrong and talk to Pak and my grandmother who's been on the other side. Karen Armstrong is one of my favorite authors. She used to be a Catholic nun and she writes.
She studies and writes about all different religions. She wrote this brilliant book called The History of God. So I'd have Karen Armstrong pac Marion.
Two more seats, two more seats.
Damn who else will wrote a nath Swamy wrote a swammy, So it would be it would definitely be a table on some hot like spiritual just that's the tablettle though you stuck me with that one. But I'm always interested in the mysteries of God. So that is like, I could talk about that all day.
Yeah, me too.
If you could see one guest on our show, who would be? But you have to help us get them on the show.
One guest like who do you want?
You mentioned your friend you share all the tea with? She'd be dope. You guys have had lawd Yeah, and we you know, we know her waiting till maybe your push give us that extra Lauren.
Wow, that's interesting. Lauren hasn't been on the show.
She's already family.
Yeah, you just I think the time just hasn't permitted itself.
That's all it is.
That's all it is with Lauren. It's timing. It's timing with Lauren. She needs a reason and we respect it. Yeah.
Well, Jada, thank you best the luck by the time this air is telling them where they can get your.
Book at everywhere you can get at Barns and Nobles, Amazon, Target, you know, you go, you know, anywhere you buy your books.
Well, congratulations on that. Again, we've been fans of yours for a long time. And then we're happy that you're on that journey to finding the hire you and to see you smile today and and and open up and share with us was truly honest, So thank you, thank you to us. He's held itself long enough. It's only a matter of time. It's only amount of time. Well, that's a wrap, Jada Pickett Smith all the smoke. You can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the iHeart
platform Black Effects. We'll see y'all next week.