Isiah Thomas - Part 2 | Ep 177 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

that's the way meeting of mine. That's the way it sounding like. You know, and if and if that's how you fell on it, right, don't don't. Don't you know, I own it. That's how you felt, you know, own it. If you didn't feel that way, didn't clean it up. So I didn't make the team. That was the first time that I didn't make a team in my life. I never felt the sting of getting cut. Right, So when we all tried for a team, you go and they put the they put the names on the wall,

and you look and you see if you made it. Well, I was always on the team. This is the first time I didn't make a team, and did that sting? Did that hurt? Absolutely? Did? I want to be on the team right, But I didn't make it? Now? Was I mad? Was I upset? Probably went through all of those ranges of emotion. But then you know again, I'm from the West side of Chicago, so it's like, hey, you didn't make it. What you don't do? What's next? You can cry about it or you can you know,

move on with your life. So I just kept moving on. I watched every game, I rooted for the USA to win. I had won the gold medal in seventy nine, I made the Olympic team in eighty that was boycotted, and was hoping that I would make this one. I didn't make it. I didn't know why I didn't make it, But did I do? I feel like I should have been on it, absolutely, But let me say this, me not making it has has given me more pub than if I wouldn't have made it, you know, on the

good side. So there's always some good and some bad way, you know. So I like the fact that you know the people acknowledge, even though if the institutions didn't acknowledge, we know the people acknowledge that I should have been on the team, and you know, so I'm good with that. Jordan rules. You went two titles. Mike is starting to catch, you know, get some steam with his team. Explained to the Jordan. Explain what the Jordan rules are and where

it came from. What that is? John Sally told us his version of yeah, yeah, yeah, and it and it's pretty simple. Now, we had rules for everybody. Okay, we were we were a disciplined team. We had rules and we followed rules, we followed orders. This is what we at ten point plan. This is what we did. This is how we act, this is how we walked. This is what we do. So we had rules for magic, we had rules for Kareem, we had rules for Bird. Just like y'all go into a locker room. The rules

for everybody, right, So Jordan rules. Jordan was a reluctant passer. He didn't liked the pass and he was the first volume shooter. So he wasn't like a like now you see kids that got great handles. In all that, he didn't have great handles, couldn't go left right, and if he went left more than two or three times, he had to pick it up. So the rules are very simple. Left side of the floor, sent him left, right side of the floor, send him left. In the middle, sent

him left. Now when he's going left, we wanted the trap to be visible. Right, So I'm going left and the first person that he sees now is running at him, and you, as a defender, your job is to take away his right hand because now, as a passer, we want that ball going in the air. And if that ball goes in the air, we're quick enough to rotate and get back and match up. So as that defender leaves to come trap off the baseline or from the top.

Second defender, your job is to rotate to cover. Now we want that pass scoring in the air cross court. Jordan didn't want to pass, so what would he do. He would shot and guess what he would do. He would miss. Okay, now he would be you know, we didn't mind if he was nine for twenty six. We didn't mind if he was ten for thirty. Now the newspaper were right, he scored twenty seven, but we would say, okay, you know he was ten for thirty. Now, mind you, there were a couple of games he was twenty for

twenty five. He wouldn't always ten for thirty. But here's what this was the key though, by him being a volume shooter. So this stuff they talk about analytics right now and all this other stuff. Okay, that was the Detroit Pistons. Okay, how many possessions you're gonna have in the game. Okay, it's gonna be ninety five, is gonna be one hundred, it's gonna be eighty, is gonna be eighty five? Right, our job was to limit the possessions.

And if we can shut down the possessions, Okay, Jordan, instead of you're taking thirty shots this game, right, you're only gonna get twenty five. But here was the key, Scotty who normally gets twelve or thirteen shots because he's a reluctant passer. This game, Scotty, you're only gonna get seven shots, and you know this one over here, horrors, Grant, you might get three shots. And by the way, those shots that you're taken and that you're getting, they're gonna

be at the end of the shot clock. It's gonna be somebody running at you. And and now right your field goal percentage. Right, So this is where we said we were mentally, like you know, we we take your little brain and just twist it and tell you fucking fall off. Right. That's that's that's so. Now when you're looking at that statuet and your field goal percentage, it's thirty seven and it ain't forty five, right, you know

that mess with you. Right, So now you're looking at your field goal percentage and your field goal percentage it's thirty seven. And now we you know, you play games with people out on the court. Eight I'm you know, bj I'm gonna leave you open, right, he ain't gonna even thirty you right, right, you go down there and double he shoot right, and then you come back and say,

he ain't got to guard you. So those type of mental games you play with the team and and if I can break trust and one person you got him, well I don'na beat you. So those were the Jordan rules. Now Jordan goes to the basket. Let's say he beats all the double teams. Right now, he gets to the basket. The NBA at that time wanted to market the dunk, right and understanding their marketing plan, the Lakers, the Celtics, it was bird shooting, it was magic passing. It was

kareem hooking. Now they come with the marketing plan that we want to market the dunk. Everybody got to fly in the air. Remember when y'all were growing up. How high can you dunk? How do you got a dunk? You got dunk this way right now they market into three point shot. Man. You can come down and do a zach lavine dunk between your legs, float in the air and all this other stuff. And they do that. Somebody shooting three. So the marketing right, So understanding the

marketing plan, we ain't gonna let you dunk. Guess what when you come to the hole and you've heard this from all your coaches, don't give up the dunk. Were gonna file you and put you on the file line. So when we would file him and put him on the fire line, he would cry real files too. Oh yeah, what I was getting real files too? Yeah, wait a minute, it one like one like he was the only one getting real, getting real back then everybody was getting filed. Yeah,

Michael snatched rama side of the air. Bird was fine on doctor Jay. I'm sorry Doctor Jay was flying on bird, you know, I mean it was the big guy that the talk got of elbow. You not call him alone. It was another right car, right car, right, yes, ye, all right, you still owe my lit or. I got my lip m like I like to fight, So you go back and you slow that down. You know, my little left hand was up in there, and I went to plant, and I'm glad I slipped because I went

to plant. And when I went to plant, he was still rushing, and by him being big and coming in, I'm right on that chin. Nah. Now, I was gonna drive that nose bone right up to his brain. I was coming, man, and I slipped. And when I slipped right then you will see me just rush up into him, right, So I just run up into his chest. So he came like swinging hit me and then they break it up. But but yeah, so so Oakley, right, he gets traded because they say Chicago weren't tough enough, so they went

and got Cartwright. So they traded Oakley to New York. Go get caught right, and you know cart Right, he throw some bowls. He caught me. I ain't gonna lie. Yeah, So I was getting hards. Grant hords. Grant was hitting me pretty hard coming down the lane. So they was laying wood. Man, I mean they was laying hard wood. But but Jordan was. He was the only one to steal crying today. They hit it. It was dirty. Look

look what they did. They show you all the clips, right, they show you all a few video clips and tell the world it's how they played. They don't never show you the game. Have you seen the Chicago Bulls Detroit Pistons basketball game? Any of y'all fans, they'll show you the game. They'll show you the few video clips because they got to keep this thing going, but show how we really played. Everybody got filed. There's a guy during that time got hit harder and more times than Isaiah

Thomas driving down the lane. I got the scars for it, but I ain't never cry. I just got up, went to the fire line. But you know he went to the league office. You know they wrote newspaper articles about it. You're sitting here talking about the Jordan rules. Hey man, we had Kareem rules, we had Magic rules. Y'all played. There was Tim Duncan rules, Bryan rued. So don't don't make it sound like a rule. Don't get crossed. Yeah, don't make it sound like it was yeah, yeah, it.

Don't make it sound like it was something really special for him. Oh that we had a defensive philosophy for everybody we played in and his was okay, send them to the foul line, make him make free though he was eighty five from the line, we had a better chance to him missing the free through which he didn't miss that many. But that dunk, that's a for sure too. Yeah. So and momentum again, so you know possessions, you know, shot clocks. I don't know, you keep trying to go

up with dunk four quarter. You tied them shot short, tell me about it. And by the way, guess what we said real screens. Yeah, yeah, we said screens on offense. Yeah. So, you know, everybody getting picked, but then there's some people who get picked harder. Right, So if you if your head ain't on the swivel down there, that's part of the game. Now, lockoff. So that so don't don't again,

don't make it like something that it really was. But you know, as basketball players, we understand that because if you've been in the playoffs, you have you you do game players of different strategies for each team, and each you have rules for star players. So but I also like being able to explain it because this is the

narrative that has been out for thirty forty years. You know what I mean for you to be able to break it down like it wasn't just it was rules for this, this and that, but they just chose to focus on That's why y'all got the best show going all that smoke. You got two true form of players that now I can have in depth, real basketball conversations. I ain't talking to two guys that ain't never played in the NBA. Ain't talking to guys ain't even one championships,

ain't even play. I'm talking to the real guys now, right. They ain't a whole lot of real guys you can have this level of conversation with, right, So it always had to get dumbed down, you know, and then they take a few sentences of whatever, they chop it up and they go to this is Detroit business. Yeah. But like I said, it's definitely refreshing to here from your mom, because we know that we know it's rules for every

different players, especially the star players. And if you don't have no rules, they're gonna get your ass fifty points. Then you're gonna look like you don't even belong God there, Thank you, thank you. Early nineties. You're coming off three straight finals appearance. You tell your achilles an injury. Back then there was a career ender. Now they're coming back off them. Um thoughts when that happens. So here was the career ending that that I don't talk about and

didn't talk about. Right, So your wrists, yeah, see this is as far as I can be my wrist and that's your shooting hand to my shooting hand. Now, the doctor Kirk Watson, it's called the Kirk Watson. He invented the surgery. And when he did this surgery on my wrist in ninety one, this is the year we lost. I think I missed like fifty some games that year. He said to me, you never played basketball again, and

I was like, no, well I'm gonna play. Go. No, this is this is a career ending specifically for a small guard. Now for big men who play around the basket. If you was six to seven post up guy, you know it worked. But you being a small guy having to shoot from the perimeter. And you can go back and look after we won in ninety and after this risk surgery right. You can look at my stats from ninety one to ninety four. I wasn't the same player because I couldn't shoot. Now, why did I have to

hang on their contract? Right? You know you you got three more years left on the contract. Ain't gonna get you gotta get the money. Now, I can't retire. So you stay and you do the best you can. But you're not the same anymore. When did you realize you weren't? Like as soon as you came back, you knew. I was like, oh shit, I came down my wrist. I couldn't. I couldn't. So nineteen ninety I think I still hold there the three point shooting record in the NBA Finals,

the highest percentage. I think I shot sixty two sixty three from the three point line. You got researcher here right there, you're doing it right now. Nineteen ninety we're playing the Portland Trail Blazers. We beat them for one. What was my three point field goal percentage? Damn? Damn? What you was? What you was shooting in ocean ship? I was kind of good understand so that that still is the highest percentage percentage, right, So now I come

back ninety one and shot too much. It was just doctor say, hey, man, yeah, he said, you have so many bins in the wrist. And I was, man, I I practice. All I was doing was shooting and and I had got so good from that three point line and then my my penetration game was on. So again, like when you talk about the Pistons week, we changed the way the game's played. In that same series, where did Bill Lambier shoot from the three point line thirty

six right in today's game? In today's game, that's the standard. Right, So you know, that was all center and that's how we played, right. Bill Lambier was heavily criticized because he wasn't a post up center and he was standing out I shooting three pointers and we was playing pick and roll. But you know, when did I know it was over? After that surgery? So I had to the first part

of the surgery. I had to walk around like this for for six weeks and then little sling and they didn't want no blood running up in it, right, And then they let me come down like this, right. And then when they took the cast and everything, golf man, my wrist was that big, smelling funky. The cast were stinking.

I remember them days. Yeah yeah, And so now we I'm playing left handed in the playoffs because I can't shoots it pain for you just can't bend it, oh pain for you know, I wouldn't come out of castin know muscles. And then they slapping, I mean they hit Scottie Piper hit my arm one time in the Eastern Converence Finals. Man, I swear to god, tears came to my heart. I didn't do all that because you can't let him know, right, yea, man, I swear to god,

I started crying. And if I wasn't sweating, right, you would have seen it. People, people would have seen it. I was, but I was was just playing off, like man, that dude hit my arm so hard. Man, And speaking to Scottie, I do want to clean something up and get Scotty his respect because as a defender, right, he don't get enough credit. And when we talk about probably the greatest and the best defender that's ever played in the NBA, Chicago had two album Robbing and Scottie Pippen.

But but Scotty, Scotty was different, you know, as as a defender at his best, I may have to say that he and Rob in one and two best defenders probably ever to play the game. And so I do want to get him his respect in his props because and then as a facilitator, you know, I mean Scotty Scotty, you know he was, he was the real deal. Was great. Yeah. Um, there's been recent debates about the physicality in today's game. I don't even understand this because it's not physical. This

is the internet talk. So there's been some guys that we played with, yeah, Gilbert Orinas JJ Ready in particularly that says it's tougher to play in today's game than it was to play in the eighties. M thoughts on that, I mean, obviously the physicality. I don't think there's any comparison to the physicality when you played to what today is because you can't be physical. But just thoughts on

I guess remember, let me change my questions. Just the errors of basketball in your mind, being an all time great hard to compare. Can you compare eras or just the game has continued to evolve so much that it's just because you leave them in their era. So I do have to answer this question in a lot of ways. So the errors are different. Some people say the eighties was the best era of basketball ever. Some people have said the nineties, You know it's wasn't one of the

greatest basketball eras ever them two thousands. You know that as the rules started changing and coaching schemes started changing. When you say the game has evolved, so I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna go old air, And then I want you to take me back to this question. So has the game really evolved? And what does that mean when you say it's evolved? Now, I grew up with watching a guy by the name of Billy Harris

shoot from half court. He wouldn't take a layup. He come down one on nobody and he stopped and pull up at the top of the key, and everybody with holla, lay up right. He was known for never shooting a layup right. He was known for pulling up at half court knocking it down. When y'all was playing in the real games, it was a guy by the name of Stefan Marberry Starberry who would stop at half court, pull up, boom,

knock it down. What has changed and the guy who doesn't get credit for changing the game in this so called evolution of the game. His name would be coach Mark Jackson. Now let me tell you why Mark Jackson changed the game. Because Mark Jackson saw a guy by the name of Steph Curry and a guy by the name of Clay Thompson, and Mark Jackson as a coach made it acceptable. He made it acceptable for Steph Curry

and Clay to shoot from that range. People always shot from that range, they just didn't do it as part of their offensive schemes. Mark Jackson solely accepted Steph and Clay shooting from that distance, from that range and crucial powers of the game because before that it was lived by the deer three dive by three because it hadn't been proven yet that you can win that way. Well, we proved it well consistently at I'll take it back

because it was inside out. But also you know when you when you we talked about your three point percentage, you were eleven for sixteen in the finals. Like that's one game for guys, now, you know what I mean. So just the volume value, Yeah, that's that's what I'm getting there. So Mark, So the one who has power gives definition too, and the one who has power can also allow things to happen. We came up and when we were playing, all coaches that wasn't acceptable to shoot

and from that distance or play that way. It just wasn't acceptable. Mark Jackson alone accepted and when he accepted, that changed the game. That changed the game. Steph Curry, Clay Thompson would not be Steph Curry Clay Thompson getting credit for evolutionary if there wasn't a teacher and the master saying you can do that. And I never forget watching Golden State player Okase and Clay Thompson pulled up, dude in the pressure situation, the pressure situation from the

hash Mark Bam. Yeah. Now Mark Jackson wasn't coaching then, but the thought the acceptability right that that we're watching Kevin Durant in Cleveland come down and Lebron James waiting for him, and Kevin Durant stopped three feet behind Boom Sandwiches and they asked Lebron James what was the difference between last year and this year? He said, kadi ya

for real? You know, but Mark, but Mark Jackson, in my opinion, when you say the evolution of the game and a three point shot his name, he's the one who changed the game. He's the one who made it acceptable from a coaching standpoint to not allow you to shoot there but allow you to miss from there. It wasn't the shooting, like he said, It was the missus. The missus. No, he can't keep missing. That can't keep missing.

Now we see, guys. I saw Steph come back his first game after being injured one time and he went three for sixteen in Portland from the three point line. It's acceptable now, it's acceptable now, right? You know you can you can go one for ten and say I'm gonna get hot. Mark, Mark Jackson change the game. And that's not even just credit Clay and Steff's talent. But like you said, to understand what you're saying, it's just someone that will allowing and accept it and understand it.

And you're definitely not wrong. I know you were obviously a team guy and and and you guys ran your system and you thought. But with the freedom of today's game because of Mark, what do you feel like if you were just an individual out there in today's game, what do you feel like you can average with your ability to do people can't stay in front of you can shoot the ball, to high clip. If if I dominated, then I would dominate now. Yeah, I mean because the

rules now favor me. They favor the small guy. They they favor me now. Freedom of movement itself, space, No, ain't nobody in the lane. No hand checking either. Yeah, but you know, a hand check in it bothered me some. But I was fast right, so and then I knew a little judo, So you put your hand there. I hit them. You know, I knew, I knew how to I knew how to move it and get back. But the nobody in the lane. See, every time I drove

down the lane, six people in the lane. You know, there's me and my defender and then there's you know, two big So you you got to be tricky around the basket. Now you're driving down the lane naked. Ain't nobody there, so you you get to stretch out, lay up if you if you saw me coming down, I had to I had to ball up and then I had to come out, you know. So But like I said that, if if I dominated, then I would dominate now and and make no mistake about it. In the

game of basketball, some people may say you're arrogant. I don't care. I am extremely confident in my skills and my ability and what I was doing and what I could do. I can't do it now, but you know, m I would be all right. I agree to say the least three players, you feel like that'll be the face of the NBA in the next ten years. I don't know if they'll be from America. H I'm just saying facts. That's crazy. I mean, that's crazy. That's true though,

Jannis Luca, you know, joker. I mean when you look at the last five, the young boy, I mean, when you look at the last the last four five m MVPs, they all been international players. Now that's you know, that's the conversation to have. Yeah, yeah, that's keep winning MVP and can't get to the finals or at least the conference finals or something. You can't you gotta win. Yeah, it got to be a shut it down, like you can win it back to back. Okay, cool, I understand that.

But one of them back to back years, you got at least get to your conference finals. Bro, you can't get there. You're not nv P one time, didn't they Then they go to the Western finals once in the bubble, right then that bubble shit, don't count. But this, this is where the numbers, This is where the analytics hit

don't count. This is where the analytics like you know, the the those remember I said, those who are in power, they give definition to so they get to define and they get to make the rules and they get to say what's acceptable. So now winning is totally discounted. Yes, that it's like anybody can win. And I'm here to say, no, that ain't true. Those of us who have won will let you know, like it ain't easy. That now it ain't easy, and that that guy who's a twelfth man,

that dude count and why does he count? Because there is a such thing called chemistry that makes a whole team work, that makes it all together. And that guy who part of it is a big part of it. His personality, his character, his showing up things that you don't measure, right, those things are what we say. Those are the things that we value. Remember when we was growing up, it was like, dude, you could have it twenty points and tim rebounds, but if your character is nasty,

you ain't on the team. I ain't picking you. You ain't on the team. You just ain't on the team. Now you can have it twenty and ten have a bad attitude, and they'd be like, well, you know, he does get twenty points tim rebound, but they never speak to your personality, your character, who you are, you're upstanding, none of that. Right, So since winning doesn't matter, now,

we're just talking about numbers. And if we're only talking about numbers, analytics makes you selfish because you are only thinking about your numbers and you get paid on your numbers. And if I'm getting paid on my numbers, and all I gotta do is get numbers. And because that's all general public understands, because we have to, we have to present the game in a way that the average fan

will understand it so we can get more fans. So if I dumb it down and break it down so it's only about numbers, then it's a game for everybody. It's not an exclusive club anymore. Anybody can do it. You got kids not thinking like they can play like Steph Curry and shoot like Steph Curry because right now, you gotta do it. Be able to dribble, make a layup, make a free throw, and shoot a jump shot. You

don't have to understand no schemes. So when you look at a guy like you know, the joker, no disrespect, you know, I like him, But but I was I was saying the other year, like Devin Booker, his team at the best record, yeah, and he was having the twenty six, twenty seven points and he in the MVP right right, there used to be a time when record, when it matters. You have his twenty six, you have a twenty seven. You know, we we got to give you that. But you can't be the MVP of the

league one year and your team is in fifth place. Yeah, yeah, that It's never worked that way. And you can't be the best player in the league for the show when your team not even in the playoffs. Yeah, I don't want a lot of people don't want to hear that those are those are well, that's how that's how we look at it, right. It's like now, unfortunately we don't have the loudest voice. You know that we're not the majority. The majority has the loudest voice because there's more of them, right,

But that doesn't mean that they're right. Absolutely not not at all, not at all, not at all mean culture, you haven't meme u that came out. I met the criteria to be selected but I wasn't thoughts on just where can you imagine have a social media back when you guys played, We would have killed it, he said, we would have killed What's what's your name? Zake? You know, I met the criteria, but I wasn't selected. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I kind of like that now, speaking of that, mean, right,

you see me dressed in a three piece suit. Yeah, there's the other thing I got to say about Mike now, his producer and Mike, they called me, Hey, we need you in the video. Can't tell my story without you. He's so important. Now I'm thinking, we all cool, can't tell my story without you, you know. Blah blah blah blah. So I dressed up. I'm sitting in a three piece suit. I bring one of my partners, Kevin Cotrell. You know, he was sitting in the interview. We actually did it

at NBA TV. I sat there for two hours. I said a lot of good stuff, right, last dance, come out and that's it. Now I'm dressed to the nine. I didn't come here in the sweat suit today. Yeah. Yeah, I'm giving you respect. I'm gonna show up, you know, the right way, because I got respect for you. I showed up the right way for that dude, and I sat there and I did the interview. And that's what you do to me. Now, I like the mean, unreal, I like the mean. I ain't gonna front on it,

but I like it. I'm just glad I was dressed nice. Tell me if I'm going too far. Did you get a check? No? Hell na? No? Wait wait a minute, I didn't ask for a chat. Now, I know you'd ask for you know what I'm saying, but like you know, damn. But but the way I was brought up right again, we talked about that West side of Chicago that you know, we I came up in the era where where we give each other knowledge. You know, the game is meant to be told, that sold right. This is a generation

that has swip flipped it all around. So we don't work with each other, and we don't share with each other, we don't pass on knowledge, we don't we don't uplift each other, you know. And so I went there to uplift. Yeah, absolutely, I didn't go there to chair down. So do I feel blindsided? Like I said, I got to sit here and asker these questions. Yeah. Now, if he real, he should come on your show. He should sit in this seat,

and and he should talk to y'all as brothers. He should talk to y'all as former You know, I agree straight to him. Yeah yeah, nah, no, I mean, I mean I hear y'all praise him rightfully. So and he should be, you know, because his shoe game is tight, what he's done in the shoe industry, and and and we're happy for that, right, but it's some other stuff, you know, they come on, man, like, you know, be real.

Two thousand elected to the Hall of Fame. When you think about your body of work starting in high school, through college, through the league, Uh what what rich? What stands out to you the most? Just a winner, proven winner. Everybody can't say they one on every level. They played on and started the NBA franchise, in the in the in the foreign country, the Toronto Raptors. So when I look at the Raptors and what I did there has stood the test of time. And you know that two

thousand going into the Hall of Fame. So I retired in ninety four in April and May I was part owner president of Basketball Operation. I was the first player to ever walk off the floor straight into it and go straight into ownership and run basketball operations. And by the way, all we had was a blank sheet of paper. There was no uniform. So there you go again. You did that before, though you did that in Detroit. You

built it up so the same thing. So when you see when you see the raptor run out there with that flag, and he planned his flag and he waved his flag, you can go back and you will see the bad boys right out with the flag waving. We plan all flag right in all colors. What we stood for, right, it's all around there. You know that dance pack, that dance team started all of the right. So standing up

there in the Hall of Fame. In two thousand, I owned the league called the CBA, and the first man to ever own a league and turned it into a single entity which the NBA. Then started the w NBA and copied a lot of our formulas what we were doing. CBA had got to a point where it was so good. David Stern said, I liked that. I want that. So they started the G League and now everything that the G I didn't know you had something to do with the CBA. Z I owned the whole league. I didn't

know that. I played in this ship for about two weeks. Yeah, the crossbodcast. Yeah, the worst place on Earth. I owned the whole league. I bought every team, say word about I bought every team. And I was I was the first individual. It's the first individual to ever own an entire league. Not the way they the way it's been written. Oh you you you bankrupted to CBA. Nah, time out the NBA. David Stern and those owners bankrupted to CBA

and started the league. Purpose Well, it was competition, you know, And and I get it. That's that's business. You know. They were they had more money, and I didn't have the money to compete with what they were getting ready to do. I thought wrongfully. So I thought that being a former player, that they would say, support you, let's

bring thought. But it's business. They're looking at his business like nine, it's good enough you competition, we want that or either get out now the other thing that you know less those are lessons learned, Those are those are hard business lessons. So when you talk about the first game that was ever broadcast live over the internet that came out of the CBA, Isaiah Thomas did that CBA Hoops. There was a CBA hoops before NBA dot Com. Okay, so that let's just real talk and that those now

were they were they better at business? And did they have more money? Absolutely? When you look at the G League, you know a good portion of that is my business plan. Just the blueprint. That's the blueprint, same thing, Yeah, just with more money. Now. The other thing that you can go back and look into history when you talk about the CBA, they said I couldn't own the league and coach in the NBA at the same time. So they

said it was a conflict of interests. The only time that there was a special vote in the NBA by the owners that rule that Isaiah Thomas could not own the league or a team because it was a conflict of interest. The owners voted, so I had to sell or give up the CBA to coach the Indiana Pacers. Interesting, so did you have a hand in putting the team in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, Because I've still traumatized from that city.

My first day I have to go to practice or go unpack and seem decides to go bowling as soon as I get rid of the Rollman strike. Two dudes coming in and lay the whole place down to rob everybody. I'm like, I want to make play basketball, but I don't know if the risk is worth the reward. So U, my brother and I had family in racing Wisconsin, and I had a lot of bad A lot of people from Chicago. A lot of people from Chicago, yeah, exactly,

a lot of and racing was on touchables, yeah street. Yeah, a lot of people from Chicago left and had to go to Wisconsin. They went to two places, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Minnesota. And so actually the owners in Lacrosse they were good people. So that the CBA owners, um, when I bought the CBA from them, all of them were good people. They were good operators. I left them all in the business and that the NBA became. You know, they wanted a

league for themselves. Uh is this urban legend? Is there any truth to this that you wanted to draft Kevin Garnett m and in Toronto, put him in the middle and put four guards around him. Absolutely, So let me let me tell you that down. Let me tell you what ended up happened, and then I'll break it down. So I'm gonna remind you of a guy by name of Marcus Camby. That I had a brother that you love, by the name of Doug Christy, one that I drafted

by the name of Tracy McGrady. I love point guard that was Wickie of the Year by name of Davis Stardomyer. And then number fifteen Vince Carter. That's me. Them was the guys. Okay, now, the idea that I had and Jim Kelly right now who's with the Dallas Mavericks, and and Bob Zeffalatto, whose son Scott Zeffalatto runs the Hall of Fame. I brought those two gentlemen in and what I want to do in Toronto. We called it the

Raptor two. And what was the Raptor two. The Raptor two was going to be a six seven to six to nine power forward who had guard skills because if you remember offense back then, the four always pinned down on the two. So we wanted to be able to switch to four in the two, but we wanted on the offensive end that guard that four, who would have been McGrady or Carter or whatever. They would have guard skills and now they can break it down, they can shoot the three, they can get to the basket. Guys

like Oakley couldn't guard them on a perimeter. Had Damon Stodomeyer who could play high screening role with Marcus Camby, who could you know, pass shoot to them? Now, when I saw Kevin Garnett, first time I saw him was in South Carolina at a playground. He didn't even though I was there. He was playing outside and they had

this little playground tournament. So I snuck down there and I'm watching this dude, yeah, yeah, yeah, tween the legs behind the back, pulling up shooting, you know, passing diamond. And I'm like, that's my Raptor two. That that's who. I won't that's who. So Kevin Garnett, don't. I'm gonna say this. Kevin Garnett also somehow ends up in Chicago and his coaches got my name of Anthony long Street, who I played with inside job. I can hear it. I can hear the inside job. And he ends up

at Farragut on the West Side. And you know, aren't you from the West Side? You know, Mom and everybody, they they end up, you know, in Chicago. Someone had to roll the red carpet out for him, and so now you know, we're watching Garnett through his thing. And by that time, you know, they you can draft high school players. The rules had changed. So I'm trying to figure out how can I get the players? So I had a meeting with guys that I when I got

the job. I had meeting with tech s ram Elgin Brailer, Jerry West, and um Buddy Ryan, the football coaches, football coaches. Why did I go to football? Right? Because football draft six rounds and Dallas was known for thinking outside the box. You may not remember a guy by the name of Bob Hayes, but Bob Hayes ran track. It's a long time ago. Y'all weren't even born, but they was known for, you know, drafting, you know, guys outside of their sport. So I want to know how and why they thought

that way. Had to talk with him. Then I study what the forty nine ers were doing, because what football does that basketball? Don't them? Guys in football? The amount of information that they're able to consume on a weekly basis is mind blowing. I mean when you look at the information that they're able to absorb and then come out, I mean they get volumes and volumes of books that

they have to know, tendencies, break down, everything else. So when I looked at the coaching staffs, right at that time, there was no such thing as an offensive coordinator defensive coordinator. We brought that in in Toronto, copied it from football. And why did we do that because again, football went to specialization long before the NBA went to specialization, special teams, special teams. And then they have you know, quarterback coach.

They have alignment's coach. You have a running back coach. I mean their specialization, their breakdown and their information, their their quality control and all that. So I put all that together, now bring that to Toronto. I see Kevin Garnett and I'm like, he the one. He got it all he got, he got the understanding, he's smart, you know, he's got the personality, he's got the motor, he's got the engine. He's got he's got everything that you're looking for.

So I have this terminology that I call ICE. It's hash him here, what's ice? Intensity, concentration and energy that That's that's what we and that's what you look for. That's what separates the great player from the good player. You can have skill and all that, but can you put intensity, concentration and energy on top of that skill? And if you can do that, dangerous cool got something that was Kevin Garnett. And so now we're going through the draft and I you know, while back, I told

you Kevin McKell and I are really good friends. So if you remember, you know, around Garnett's draft, there's a lot of bad talk around him. He's not there, he's dad, you know, he's he's a great player, but can you really trust him? You know character, you know all of the cargo. So you didn't use worry about none of that. Well, you know, I was kind of hell that because I

wanted to fall us. Right, So so I get a car from kill Right, he goes, Ah, I need you to be honest with me, He goes, tell me about this kid, Garnett. I can't get a read on him. I said, Kevin, I'm not gonna lie to you. I said, if you don't draft him, I'm gonna draft him. Right, he goes, you really would take him? I say absolutely? And I say he would be great with you. I said, but you know, if you don't take him, I'm definitely taking him. Everything else you're hearing around him is just

just straight noise. He goes all right, so he ends up taking Kevin. Now, why did I draft Dame in stotomy Here? Who did Dame in Stotomia played for? I was only who was his head? That's a supposed to go to zom. Did Rosborow recruit you Jesse Evans? Jesse Evans or okay, okay, okay, okay, So yeah that so so so I called Rosborough up. I'm like, tell me about Damon? Right came miss Damon becomes a Rookie of the Year. So that's how that's how Garnett, you know,

got started. Interesting all right, quick hitters. First thing to come to mind. Let us know what you think top five point guards of all time? This is gonna be a good one. Well, I gotta go size in terms of category, because when you look at you know, Magic and Oscar Robertson right there, that's a different there. It was Oscar six six six five. He was six to five. But but dude, like I mean strong, you know, have a triple double all of that, and um, so you

know I put them in a different category. So we're gonna say that the best And why are they the best? Because their size and their weight gives them an advantage over all of us six one dudes, right, And when you get to small people my size, I'm one two three now and that's just you know, it's like, and why do I say that? Name me one gay my size who's done what I've done? H, step boy, you got anything for for for me? I can't see nobody.

And the reason why I separate you from a lot of point guards the same reason I separate Kobe from a lot of people. Just that toughness, just being relentant, a being a winner. Ah, I look at when different. You know what I'm saying. I appreciate winning more than anything, you know what I'm saying. So I respect that. So that's why I separate you, because you had the toughness and to win. Everybody don't have that. Can you humor us real quick and give us you plus four more?

Just kind of see what you're thinking is on the rear right. So so I'm gonna go if you listen in Steph Curry as a point guard, H we are we are okay? Then Steph? We are right? Then then Steph because no one's done what he's done. Right from

a championship winning standpoint. Now we've done it differently, but people all size right, you know, it's it's one and two, right, and and if I was picking right, depending on what day, he may be one because you know that, hey man, it's intimidating when the guy step across half court and he can just let it go you and you're standing down in the layoup line doing your layoup, you're shooting him. Of course that's intimidating. So it's a psychological effect that

he brings to the game. And then he's got that. He's got the intellect, he's got the he's got the smartness, he's got the toughness, he's got the he's got the character, he's got the pedigree, he's got the leadership, he's got he's got all of that. Right, there's there there there's no flaws there. So you know what what I what I banked on, right is again, I'm gonna outthank you, I'm gonna out concentrate you. I'm gonna you're going to make a mistake against me that allows me to beat you. Right.

So Steph and I are very similar in that way. We do it differently, right, um, and then we win like championships matter, Okay, um, and I'm just talking all side. So magic Oscar. They that's how we put parking Biggie somewhere else. Yeah, uh what nosdam, he's in the category. Yeah, he's in there, just saying so speaking of nas, is he still answering this? Yeah? So then and then I gotta go Stockton, Chris paul Um. This is gonna be tough one, but I got I gotta throw Jay Kidd

in there. You know, people, how can you not well what people are gonna say, Nash one two MVPs and not it. But but but Jason Kidd. You know he was a motherfucker boy. Yeah yeah, yeah, Jake Kid. M Yeah, I hate when people say that. Nash one too. He did Man, but Shack and Kobe Man Man, Kobe should have won that Man. But the rules the rules again, that's the regular season award, But the rules changed. That's when the rules started changing where small people can start playing.

So I was in Actually I was actually in the room with Mark Cuban the day he made that trade or didn't resigned Nash We sitting in Dallas and it's cub and I. We're in the room and he's debating if if he should keep Nash and the rules hadn't changed yet, and you know, he had all his material. He was saying, you know, Nash snowing, slowing down a little bit. Uh, deaf was on the line, deff he wanted, you know, a little bit more money. Humans like, I'm not sure, you know, And then he made the decision

he wasn't gonna he wasn't gonna resign Nash. And Nash went on to win, you know, MVP, but then he ended up being Jason Kidd and winning the championship. So do you want the MVP or do you want to win the championship? You want so, you know, Q made the decision smart. They end up you know, winning the championship. But that's when the rules changed and the rules started favoring the smaller people, guards and everything else. They eliminated hand check in, you know, all that stuff. And you know,

Dan Tony gets credit for seven seconds or less. But that's not that's not free movement. That's not free movement. It's a gentleman by the name of John McClinton who I took him to the Hall of Fame. John McClinton, who invented fast break basketball, and he invented seven seconds or less. I took John McClinton and his family into the Hall of Fame. The first higher I made in Toronto, it was John McClinton. And they still have the John McClinton Award in Toronto. And the first player to win

it was Steve Nash out of Vancouver in Canada. But John McClinton invented seven seconds of less basketball. Now they give credit to Dantoni. Dan created Shah he one shit, always get a job now, but they come from John McClinton. You know, So let's let's let's be factual and get a credit where credit goes. Mark Jackson changed the game. John McClinton invented fast break basketball. Seven secon just never thought about it. The way you broke me down with

a makes complete sense about the Mark Jackson thing. One album you listen to on repeat, Earth Winning fire Man. Don't do that to Earth Winning fire That's the way of the world. They West Side boys. You know, I went to Crane High School. Ok my rees White Birdine that that's Chicago. I'm telling that Chicago is deep. And when you look at the albums you look at that air they you know, they they was talking to us. They they was talking to us about nationality, birthright, citizenship, spirituality.

When you look at them pyramids and what they were to Hey man, they were singing to you? Was it Dad Earth winning fire? Funniest thing to happen to you recently. Funniest thing that happened to me recently. You might have asked you for ya I d when you was trying to get drink. Funniest thing that happened to me recently.

So I work on the NBA TV with Christian Letlow. Right, So I'm going through the Detroit airport, going through the Detroit Airport and and you know, I'm I'm playing golf with with these dudes at Oakland and this dude goes where this guy goes, hey, ain't you that dude that work with Christian Letlow? I was in Detroit. I'm in Detroit now, my picture on the wall everything airport. When you go to that, you know say, ain't you that dude that we're with Christian Letlow? I say yeah, yeah.

He goes, Oh, man, I love her like she she's the best, She's great everything. So I'm like, you know, he just going off. So, you know, Letlow and now we're pretty tight. So I said, hey, you want to talk to it. He's like, oh yeah, can so I doll up Letlow right right, and so so I give him the phone right. So he now he starts asking her basketball questions like hey, you know, well, who you think gonna win the championship this year? You know, and

and you know who you think the best players? And so I'm I'm looking at this dude like, hey, man, you know, you know what I mean. But you know, I'm feeling some kind of way, but I'm playing it off, right because I know when I get the phone back, I'm gonna get an autograph or a picture something. Right. So, now they get through talking. He had me the phone back and he goes, oh man, you're so lucky you

get to work with Letlo. I just I just love her and I just think she's the best, you know, really really thank you, you know, and good luck to you. And he walked away like like what the hell? Like what so, so I would say, that's the funniest thing that that that kind of happened. You know, I'm that dude that work with Christian that love crazy and you could be this next person, the other Isaiah Thomas talk

about just the confusion that this constantly goes between you two. Man, I love it when he gets criticized because it ain't you being named after you. But so I'm I'm scouting and uh, I think I'm still in New York at that time, and and I'm hearing about this this guard in Seattle by the name of Isaiah Isaiah Thomas has it and I'm like, this got this can't be right, you know, like and are you thinking, like is he mine?

Or what You're thinking? What's a lot of stuff you know on the rail on the rail, you know, it's like not not not easy mind anything like that, but it's like, you know, you know, no, but it's like so so now you know, now I start, you know, doing a little a little research, right, and so now I get the film and I'm watching them play, and I'm like this this joker kind of good, like really good.

So now they got the pacton tournament. You know, was here in la you know, a while back when he was coming out of school and they came in and they was playing UCLA. So I'm like, okay, well, you know, I want to meet this dude. So now his mom was at the game, and so as mom and his dad they come up, you know, they say hello and you know, and then I finally get to meet him.

And when I got to meet him, it was like, damn, like you, I feel like I really know you, Like I feel like I do feel like there's some you know, the universe to you, and there's some spirituality that you know. And I'm and and so I'm really feeling this dude like I I hadn't been in his presence, but in his presence, I'm like, dude, like, you know, we we

vibeing on a totally different level. Right. And So now he don't get drafted or he's the last pick in the drafts at the draft, He's at the draft, and and in my mind, I'm like, this dude can really play. I don't know why. I don't know why they're tripping, and I don't know why the scouts are tripping, but this dude can really play and he should be in the NBA. So he gets drafted by Sacramento. Michael Malone is his coach. Now I've known Michael Malone since he

was this big Brendan Malone. His father, right, was my assistant coach in Detroit, and he was also my first hire as a coach in Toronto. So I've known the Malone family forever, right, So that's why you don't never hear me say nothing bad about Mike Malone and Malone family. So so now he's got cousins in Isaiah. And if you go back and you look, that's the best cousins has ever played. That book. He said that was his favorite coach you ever had, absolutely, and and so now

I'm following Isaiah and everything else. So and now he goes to Boston. Now I'm all fucked up. I'm really messed up now because Isaiah Thomas it's playing for Boston. It's playing for the Boston Celtics. And they love Isaiah in Boston love him. And I'm like, this don't go together, This don't work. Has this working? And now he's breaking all kinds of records in Boston and I'm hearing Tommy Hyson talking about, Oh, Isaiah, he's the best, He's he's

the greatest, and oh you gotta love that Isaiah. I'm missing. I'm like, you know, what's the little girl who does the thing when she say, make it makes sense, make sense. I didn't mean to call your little girl, I mean the woman forgive me. I'm old, so you know, but but anyway, it just it just what are the odds? What are the odds that a young man is named after you? And we know how hard it is to make it to the NBA. Right then he gets to the NBA then plays for the Boston Celtics and y'all

got the same name. I mean that that that is that is some spooky kind of stuff that's going up when your universe stuff. So we we're gonna make the Celtics love Isaiah work with me. Nice best Kobe story you can share with us, best Kobe story that I can share with you. So I'm I'm in New York and uh Polinka, who I known since he was in college and we used to all Detroit team used to go up and play against you know the five five, you know, Chris and all them, and Polinka was was there.

So now Polinka's representing Kobe and you know, Rob called me and he said, like, you know, Kobe really wants to talk to you, wants to you know, wants to you know, understand how you think. You know, I've told him a lot about you know, Detroit, the Bad Boys and everything else, and he wants to have a conversation with you. Now at that time, you know, Kobe is thinking about leaving LA too, and and he keeps saying it's not about the money. And in New York, all

we had was a mid level to offer him. Now he didn't visit I don't know if he visited any other teams, but he flew to New York to meet us to talk about signing with the Knicks, and all we had to offer was the mid level. But he was really like, I gotta get out of LA and and I'm and I'm like, but Shock there right, And he was like, I I want to win it on my own without Shack. O my god, that don't make no sense. He goes, if I win it with Shack, then I don't think I'm gonna be able to rise

the way I want to rise. And he says, so if if i'm if Shack is gone, or if I win it someplace else, then I can get to that next level or whatever level he was trying to get to. I was like, Okay, I've never heard anybody like think like that. You know, that's it's kind of different. And Rob was sitting there and he goes, I told you this, he's a little different, you know. He I say, so you want to shoulder that burden all by yourself? It

goes yeah. And and so now you know, he starts talking to me about the pistons and thinking and being and at that time, I don't know if y'all remember, but Kobe wasn't well liked based teammates. And he wasn't a guy that you know, hung out or anything like that. You know, very disciplined, very regimented, work at think and everything else. And he's like, you know, I I want people to like me. But at the same time, I don't want to change. And so I was like, don't change.

I say, you're doing it the right way. I said, I'm not sure if you can win without Shack though. That dude look me straight now eye and he goes, whether I'm which shack or not, He goes, I prefer to not be with him because I want to win it on my own. That's a good luck, young man.

And and so that that's that's my Kobe story, right, and that that left an impression on me in terms of someone having a wheel and a determination, and when they lost to the Celtics in Boston that game seven, I think it was game six or seven, the first when the Celtics beat him, and if you remember, he was like six foot thirty or he had, he had like a really bad game, and in my mind, I'm like,

it's gonna be hard to get up that hill. And then the next year he comes back in the Stamped with a back to back boom boom without without shot five and wig gasol and then he does this right, So I was like, yeah, I got three with shiit act, but I got it. I got stamped the back to back. Now, I understood that feeling the back to back still kay to win one, but when you can come back and dominate again and let all y'all know I'm that dude, or again again and ain't no bs, that's what he

was able to do. So I understood that feeling Kobe to the Knicks. Next question, oh, we had no shots, but talk of the idea in the respect right right that he would even entertain it, and that never got out, So you had breaking news on all the smoke got damn appreciate you if you got the stories that ain't got out. We know that. Jack. You should tell him the one about when you when you almost got ran out of this league where we're in ended. And yeah, remember that call you made to me and I called

him commission up man. I forgot about that. You was out. I was done. It was done. You was done. I was done so many times. But you'll remember that. And and you you said, I called you from AL. Yeah, that's how I got in touch with you. And I called David Stern. I said you can't do that to him. I was done, you was out. I remember that, it was gone. That's how you got back in the league. I was done. You remember that, like yesterday? You should tell lest I actually forgot about that, but I remember

it vividly now. Yeah, I remember, cause I was shit. I was trying to call everybody that I figured would help me at that time. Yeah. And AL say me, AL say, no, Isaiah saved I mean, I said I saved it, But AL say, you know what I mean. I said, I saved me, but AL connected me to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and you got back out of the court. How mean how many weeks after that? Three? Thank you? I was in the mistance. You already suspended. He was gone.

I was done. I wasn't home already. He wasn't suspended. Yeah, the wheels were greased and he was out. Huh. I don't I think I called uh ghostbusters. No, I ain't called ghostbusters. I ain't called ghostbus. Donnie Wall I remember Donnie wah Zeke and uh Mike Brown. That's some people that went to wharf on me that I did, I remember vividly remember. But the only one that got to David Starns the ear. Yeah, I went to that man's office. M hmm. I can't do that to him. That's dope.

That's not going to happen. See me in it, I see me in it. Our show was gone too. I'm too money. I was gone. I've seen it. Oh done. If you can see one guest on our show, og, who would it be? Michael Jordan put him in the seat, Tim to come sit here and answer the question, whoever the person is, help us get us. That's out the question. Now you love it, shoe you let it jingle? Yeah? Yeah, y'all, y'all, y'all,

I'm still side. Y'all's number, you know, y'all somebody that you can help us get on the show that you would like to see on our show. Because I didn't hit him a million times and that ain't going to play. That's how as quick as we wanted to. So here's real talk, right, We in this brotherhood shouldn't have to go to walk the loop post. Our job and our responsibility is to come here and help you preach. That is our responsibility. That classified as black in the you

I ain't in the States of America. Our job is to come and help each other. Now that being said, he needs to sit here. Now who else? Who else? Who else would I want you to see? We got a co run. You just stopped off a co run. We have Magic Chuck and then you Yeah, I got How about this? Y'all deserve it? Thank you, I think,

I mean thank you very much. I got a request though, because it's different from me, Like I've been knowing about this guy when his teammates my whole life, and I've been I've been in the tournaments where he saved me as a youngster, Joe Dumas He's Joe didn't know me since I was a kid. I'm planning then the Lake Charles tournaments, basketball tournaments. Joe is a legend. Yes, I would love to get a chance to pick his brain and get to know him because I never had a

conversation with him. Yeah, he's someone that you's having this chair and he can be official season. Yes, you know he was the Pistons, right, he's in the league office. The bad Boys. The Sportsmanship Trophy, we're so bad. It's named after Joe. So the influence that we've had on this NBA that they don't give us credit for talk about, right, Joe would be great. Let me ask you one more question. I mean we're done, but I mean you're just so open right now. We may never get this opportunity again.

Why do you think And this sitting down has been so eye opening, mind opening, and I've learned so much. Where did the bad narrative about you come from? Because I had the audacity to come into this league and

ask for diversity. And I said to the media, when I came into the NBA, it was ninety nine point nine percent white male coverage, were no females, and it may be a one brother point one point one right, And and I said, I do not want to be judged or perceived only through the gaze of the white male. This is the eighty that that that, that that, And I went to the commissioner's office, well Stern already and charged him not to cut you off for this this.

So I came in under Larry O'Brien and then Larry left, David came in and to Stern's credit, this is what Stern did. Big respected David Stern because what David Stern did for NBA basketball in to America is David Stern said, black players classified as black in the United States. I'm gonna put them out front, your researcher Sports Illustrated. You can pull it up Sports Illustrated. On the cover of Sports Illustrated, We're white America except the NBA's black players. Wow.

That was the article that was the cover. And David Stern said, boom, I'm putting it there now. Now I'm falling up, and I'm saying, we need some black coverage. You know, we need some some brothers. You know where they at Detroit and it still may be to this day.

I was making so much noise. They gave us two black beat writers, and I think Detroit at that time was the only team traveling with two black beat writers, Terry Foster who's a columnist now, Drew Sharp who passed away, became a columnist, Clifton Brown became a columnist, Brian Burrow

World became a columnist, Jeanette Howard became a columnist. That was Detroit, traveling around the NBA and Detroit today, I think they still have two black beat writers on the beat now, and I think Beard just got promoted to a columnist or he may even be an editor. So why do I get so much trouble Because a lot of the white males at that time who were writing didn't like what I was saying, and they thought that I was coming out to their jobs or what have you.

And back then, they painted all the pictures. They painted all the pictures. And not only did they paint the pictures, but after they so you would get interviewed, they would write down what you say, and then they would take it to an editor, and one hundred percent of the editors were white males, and then the editor would fatigue what she said and then they would put it in the newspaper. And that's what you said. Don't look nothing like what came out of my mouth. Right, sometimes it

was right, sometimes it was wrong. Whatever. So, and then the second thing is, y'all former players at that time when I became vice president and president of the union agents at that time, we're taking twenty percent off the top. Damn. It's crazy. As a player contracts, they were taking fifty percent on endorsements. So I put in this thing called agent certification, and I cut the fees from twenty percent to a negotiated four and then we slotted the salaries

and we uniformed the contract in terms of language. I retired in ninety four, then locked y'all out in ninety five. He said, they locked it out, and he winked, damn one more time. I retired in ninety four. They locked you out ninety five, and then they started clawing back and taking everything that you once had. And then they start putting other people in place, start between the agent's narrative and some of the scriptwriters. And so I want I want you to go back and look up this word.

It's called hegemony. H E G O O m N. Y y'all get that fun you know I'm gonna need it. Hegemony and the Hedgemond, right, the scriptwriters, those who create the narrative, those who influence, those who tell you not to like me, and like that one. You don't know why you don't like me. You just know why. It's just something I don't know. Didn't they look for any reason? You know, you know, you know, but it's always whatever

it is, right. But you remember that word, and you go back and you look at a geminy and put that in your definitions and start talking to people about it. But bring that that we're back into play, because that's what's happening in the NBA and these narratives and these stories and everything else. You know, from an educational standpoint, we need to know what the scriptwriters are saying, how we being scripted, how we're being spoken to and spoken about.

The last thing I'm leading with in terms of the thing that I attacked and still attacked today. Language carries outside of the playing field. So these ugly labels that they attached to the Detroit Pistons. Bior Lambier has never been called a thug in his life. Grew up in the suburbs, his father ran a fortune five hundred company. He gets to the Detroit Pistons and they called Bil Lambier a thug, and we know what thug means outside

of the game of basketball. So these dirty labels that they attached to us right in all way of play, and then Detroit being the city that it is in all black city. So the language that they used around us, in the narrative that they painted around us, right, And when you try to refute those labels, bad person, you're

a bad person. You got pushed down further and further, right, So you know the I had never been called a thug in my life, and I've said to several writers along the way, don't ever call me a beast, Don't ever call me an animal. Don't use dehumanizing words in terms to describe the way I play. That's not who I am, That's not what I represent. You're smart, you went to college, you're a journalist, you have a degree,

you have a pretty vast vocabulary. You can find better words and language to use around the way I play. So I get drafted, I'm a restricted free agent. Then I become free. I'd let that sit with you for a minute. After I gained my freedom, now I can go anywhere. Okay, Now you can fantasize about owning me. You can trade me, you can bet on me, you can gamble on me, you can you can say words to me inside this place that no one would dare

say outside of this place to me. So in a very slippery slope here, and the dehumanization of the NBA player needs to be uplifted. Now. I'm gonna give Adam Silver a big hand because what he said the other day, which he's getting heavily criticized for in terms of load management. Right, the first word that came out of Adam Silver's mouth was these guys are what human? These are human beings. That's what he said. Oh oh oh they these got these guys ain't human they player? No, no, no, that

commissioner is right. He wants to treat them like human being. And he actually used the word human being. And you have one player right now who just left Brooklyn, and he keeps saying, don't dehumanize me. Words carry weight. Words carry weight. And it's important how you define rea talk about me. I don't accept it. I push back on a lot of them. No, you can't speak to me that way. You can't talk to me that way. You can't say this to me. No, I'm not that. Oh well,

when you talk to Isaiah Man, you know that. Now, Yeah, you come correct. Yes, I'm not accepting you calling me the N word, y'all can say. Don't look in the dictionary. This is what it says. Right, don't call me that. Now. If you want to call your friend now, you want to call them back, but don't call me that. Because when I was growing up, if you call me that, we're fighting. I'm fighting you every day no matter how much melan you have in your skin or the lack

of melan and you have in your skin. You call me that, it's on Don't call me that on the internet. Don't call me that on social media. Never ever ever call your mama that. Don't call me that, right, I'm not that. And how we speak to each other, how we treat each other, how we interact with each other, real talk. Taking it all the way back to the gangs. They weren't called gangs until they got labeled gangs. They were organizations in the community teaching us how to be

upstanding citizens, live, act, treat each other. Then Big brother put some stuff in our neighborhood. Big Brothers started doing a lot of other stuff in our neighborhoods, and it's all documented. But you know the words that are being used right now. We can do better. Absolutely, man. We appreciate you, especially straight off a flight to come here and sit down and spend some time with us, and like I said, and just enlighten us. You know, I learned a lot today and I appreciate I got some

free stuff. Oh yeah, you got some gear? Oh yeah, man, you know, but this is one thing that all of us won't right, don't get me no money, Okay, we won't gear. Do you want gear? You want the money. We take the gear over the money, right, gear. We got some man scared, We got your body buffer. You know, we got some all the smoke T shirt and sweatshirts, just some limited edition all the smoke gear for you. Will appreciate you showing up. Thanks you the plane, O G.

Thank you. I appreciate so much. Man, We appreciate you. Thank I send y'all bottle of champagne. Yeah yeah, well that's a rap man. Isaiah Thomas, the one and only, the real Zeke uh All the Smoke, Showtime Basketball YouTube and the iHeart Platform Black Effects. We'll see y'all next week