Isaiah Thomas | Ep 86 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

You look good, you feel good, you pray good. Okay, shout out my moscome's out, Dull. Who's that person with the puff? Daddy Ringer? All about the Vegas anyway? Man, Welcome to the show. Perfect Isaiah Thomas appreciated. Appreciate for a minute, I've been hitting him like I want. I'm gonna come on, we come so man, we finally got you here. We appreciate that. Seattle boy. You know, two thousand twenty obviously was it was tough for a lot of us. Uh, you know, lost code, the pandemic, George

Floyd incident. Um, it seems how tough that was. What are you motivated by? Um? You know? As we go, you know, almost halfway through, I think I'm motivated by just changed, you know. I think the positive out of all those things that's happened is everybody you know, trying to change for the better, no matter the race, no matter the culture. And um, I think we're looking forward to, you know, what's what's next and what can everybody change

to make this world you know, a better place. And I think overall, you know, we could kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel, you know, in terms of things getting back to normal. I think we just got to keep, you know, keep our foot on the gas to make positive change because you know, the world is not in a great place right now, and I think, you know, we can make it all better, so much more work to do, for sure. For sure, where do you feel you are as far as health?

Obviously we'll talk about the injury a little later what exactly happened to you, But where are you right now as far as health? You feel health? I'm good now, you know. It's been a long little three years since I, you know, first got injured, but I'm a healthy now. Um. I had a surgery. Not to get too deep into it, but I had surgery last May, which you know, fixed my ultimate problems. They have to go in and we can go and explain this because I had a resurface

of my hip. So my my hip is metal now, so I got it's I'm the first one in professional sports or basketball to play with the metal hip, and yeah, it's it's my it's my joint. So what my initial problem was, my hip was bone on bone, so you know, it's bone on guard. I have no range of motion, so I was really fighting every day just to you know, stay above water until I fixed my hip. So I got a resurface of my hip joint. It gives me the normal amount of space that everybody got in the

regular joint. My ship just met him. And you know when you go through the airport, you gotta go through the little special Yeah yeah, you gotta go through. Yeah yeah. But at the end of the day, you know that it changed my life because I was in paining every day, not just trying to hoop, playing with my kids in the house life I was. I was in paining. So it gave me my range of motion back. So health wise, I'm good. Mentally, I'm in a great place. And you know,

just waiting for an opportunity. I said, how challenging hasn't been to remain patient knowing you back to knowing what you can do, just like we know what you can do. You know what I mean. And I've been in that situation too, not even being in the NBA, but knowing that I still had time, you know, had game left.

But you're on a different page, you know, you you you did some stuff that I wouldn't even think close to doing my career, but knowing the player you are, bro, how does feel to be patient knowing that you deserve to be back out there. I'm human at the end of the day, so that should be hurting, you know that, And I'm gonna just keep it all the way Hunter. It be hurting. But you know, I got kids at home. They watched me closely, and there's no quit in me. There,

there's no quit obviously. I got my days where you know, some days are tougher than others. I'm watching guys signed that I feel like I'm better then. But you know, it's it's not always about you know the next man. I try to worry about, you know, what I can't control, And the only thing I control is being prepared, you know, when my name called, being able to take advantage of

the opportunity. And if I just soaked and be out the house and be high at the situation when my name is called, I won't be ready to take advantage of that. So you know, overall, I'm in a good place mentally, but yeah, I'm human. That should be hurting. That should be hurting. I'll be having my days where I'd be like, damn, Like how how I go from being top five MVP voting two years later? You know, I'm trying to find a team to play. It just makes no sense. But you know that's the business of

the game. You know, that's just is what it is. I just know if my name is called again, then when it is called, I'll be ready to take it to the time. I promise you that I'm healthy now and I don't have to fight that battle of you know, showing the world I'm healthy. Are you able to still watch games and follow games or is it? I mean this year has been a little different from me because I'm a hoop head, Like I love who I've always loved it. I've always watched every most games every night.

This year has just been a little different, I think just because obviously I watched Hoop, but not as much as I did. The game is changing, so it's kind of it's kind of tough to watch, you know, how the game is being played. But you know, that's my ultimate goal to get back in the league, obviously, and I'm gonna stay connected at all times. But I don't watch actual games as much as I did. I don't you gotta prediction on who you think is coming out

of East or West? Any teams you think are clear cut? Honestly, I don't think nobody can beat Brooklyn and you know four times, you know on paper that is obviously what we haven't really seen them go through any that city altogether, so I think that's the the biggest question mark. But out of the East, I mean, I'm gonna go with Brooklyn and then I mean you can't really count Lebron

out into you see down in all the year. Yeah, so you got you gotta go through l A in the West, but it will be tougher than boys, it will be. How do you feel about the league guard play that we continue to witness. It's amazing. I mean, in the Guards, what you got Lillard, you got Kyrie, James Hardens, Steph Is turned it up the last two months. Um west Brooks the cheat code. I mean, you know them like them top ten point guards. It's like any given night they can you know, they can give you fifty.

So that's the scary part about it. But it's dope to watch that though, because you know the game is about that guard position. Obviously the wings and Katie and Lebron and the list goes on in that. But you know, the guards are carrying the league right now, and I think it's got it. It's out of good space right now with that, because I mean, I'm a scoring guarding. You got you gotta be a scoring guard to be

effective right in today's games. You're how far removed from your Boston year for four years since you were in Boston. Kind of crazy to think how much it's changed from a standpoint at how many more shots point guards are taking now that you take. You take fifteen threes and that's cool, yeah, and it's fine, that's fine, that's just three points that shot. That So it's crazy. We we having talked about that, me and my Jamal Crawford, which you guys know shout, we need you on the sime,

we need you on there. Um. Just how in four years the game changed, That's what I'm saying. Since like even when I was playing, you know, at my peak at that year, the scores were still d Maybe now you see regulation it's one, one forty, a lot of shots. You know, the numbers are magnified now obviously because with the one the game is. But I mean, you still gotta go out there and produce, so you know, them them them guards is doing that at a high level.

Are doing an amazing job night and night out. So the guys you would just mentioned, you know, some of the elite guards, you had good battles against all of them, in particular Steph Westbrook and CP three. Tell us about some of the battles you have with those three man Steph, it started early with Staff just because you know that Sack and Golden State little connection my first three years. You know, they wasn't you know who they obviously were

for like six seven straight years. But we had them battles and you know, going Againsteff, you gotta be locked in, you know, from once he get the ball and bounds

because he's that special. Westbrook Westbrook is probably always my toughest cover because you know, obviously he's way bigger than me, but he's on goal from from the tip off to to you know, the buzzer sounds, and then CP three is just O G. He's he's he's been someone I've always looked up to, you know, since I was in shoot since he got in the league when I was in high school, and even you know a little a few years before that. So he's always tough in a

different way because he obviously he's the best leader out there. Um, he'll do whatever it takes to win. He's the one where you hate playing against him, but when you when you're on his team, you love it because he's that competitive and and he'll do whatever it takes. But you know, other than them three guards, like obviously I battled with them, but like I said, the guard list is is heavy.

It's every night like you got when I first got in the league ten years ago, it was like it was probably six seven of them where you really had to get your sleep before tonight, you know, before before that game. Now it's like almost every night, every night where you can't you can't be like, oh, that's gonna be an easy one, you know, so it's competitive out there for them guards. You just said that he's a cheat code. How do you feel your thoughts on Russ

breaking the Oscar record? It's crazy because if you go back on all the interviews with you know, the top Magic Johnson, everybody who talked about you know that record would never be broken. It's like, right, and that's what I'm saying. That's all you gotta you know, that's all you gotta explain, Like he really broke a record that

nobody thought it was like a John Stockton record. Obviously that's probably never gonna be broken here, but that triple w and it happened within five years really like where he really turned up. So you know, Westbrook is a different animal. And I think that's why he doesn't always get the credit he deserves because you know, he don't he shoots it straight at you. You know, everybody don't like Everybody don't like that, and but he deserves everything

and more. He's one of the best point guards that ever played a game. You actually have the record for the shortest point guard to record a triple double. Right, that's what tell us about that night he was going to get bulls steal it. That was coming. That was just because that's one thing in my whole career, like ever so little bro. I'm like, I'm probably never gonna get that, like, you know, a triple devil. So I

remember was playing the Wizards and Sack. It was my third year, and hey, I might have had like twelve boards that game. I don't know how, but I got it. And after the game they gave me the ball and they're like, you're the shortest person and hit story it again. I was like, well, she at least I got something for I can go. I don't think anybody shorter than

me he's gonna, you know, get a triple devil. It's that's why that's why I give all respect to to Westbrook, whether he's chasing rebounds or not, like you gotta go, he makes it look so easy. That's why I don't think people appreciate it. Don't you look up real quick and like, damn, he's got nothing in the first quarter that they don't. They just don't appreciate it makes it look like it's not that that's hard to exactly. Um, speaking of short guards, obviously the evolution you were one

of the smaller players. But you handed yourself, Um, you know, Nate Archball, the other Isaiah Thomas, uh, Damon Stodolma, Allen Iverson. Who are some of the guys you looked up to knowing that you weren't gonna be ye six eight type Manag Johnson point guard. Um, obviously my names said. Isaiah Thomas was you know, a big one, um you know watching his old tapes. But Damon Stoddemyer was somebody I modeled my whole game after. Um, he's somebody from the

Pacific Northwest. Lefty stayed in the pack team like somebody that you know, realistically, I felt like I could be like obviously Kobe was, you know, my favorite player ever. But then you also had Trill Brandon from the Pacific Northwest. It was big muggy bogs, Nate Robinson, you know, all the small guys that paved the way for me. But Allen Iverson and Damon Stoddemar were too that you know, I felt like, somehow, some way I can somewhat beat them.

And you know, Damon was a little more realistic. But then when I you know, start you know, started to cook them boys, I'm like Okay, maybe I can be Allen Iverson, you know so, and then when I got the stamp from him, it was like, nobody can tell me nothing after he you know, after he at me. And but those are the small guards that you know, I looked up to. Obviously everybody before me. They made it and was small. They paved the way from me.

I appreciate it. But those number of guys really helped me throughout my whole career, whether it be when I was in college, you know, are throughout my NBA career, and I can't thank them enough. Tell us about your upbringing and when did you find sports, in particular basketball. So I'm from Tacoma, Washington, UM, about forty minutes south of Seattle. My parents always said I had a ball in my hands since I was a little boy. So basketball was the first thing I you know, I fell

in love with. You know, what I knew what love was was basketball, like real talking. And I remember third grade, third grade, my dad took me to my first signings game signings versus Lakers, um actually signings versus Timberwood, Stephan Marbury in and KG and I wore a Laker warm up because my dad's from Inglewood. So I was brainwashing to being a Leak fan. So I wore a Laker, the little purple breakaway pants, the yellow TI on a Timberwoold science game. It didn't make no sense. But basketball.

Since that day, since I was able to, you know, be in the tunnel slap NBA player's hands like that changed my life. I felt like that's what I wanted to be since that day. And you know, to fast forward to now, you know, when I'm playing NBA games and you see that fan with his hand out, I make sure slapthoughers because that's like you used to be him.

I used to be him, and that's what made my dream. Like, that's what made my dream in reality, those little things and for me to be able to, you know, do those things two kids in the next generation, that means everything. But ever since I was in third grade, basketball was the my ultimate goal to make it to the NBA. Your name represents greatness in this game. Tell everyone how you actually got your name. It's two sides to it. So my dad's a Leaker fan. He made a wager

with one of his friends. If this is what they're telling me, this is what they're telling me on his name they made. He made a wager with one of his friends that if you know, the Pistons beat the Lakers, he would name me Isaiah Thomas. My mom loved the name, but she grew up in church. She wanted to spelled the biblical way. So it was two sides. Two of my dad lost to bed my dad. I mean, my mom loved the name, but she's having to get swept

that year, right. Yeah. Yeah, they gotta beat and that's how your name you So that that's the story that they got. They they and then I happen to play hoops, so we took it and ran with it. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's funny. What was the funniest? At mentioned on social media that you remember what it was supposed to be directed to Isaiah Thomas g Man when the last dance

came out, they hated. Oh my that was on me though, Like when the dance came out, Oh my goodness, it was like for them whatever, six straight weeks, every episode it was like, f you fter bad boys. Then you got something hitting me like your dad's this and that. I'm like, I'm just laughing at it because I'm a little that, you know, like I have nothing to do with the bad Boys the last dance. I got nothing

to do. That's not my pops. But you know that happens every now and then, especially when I was you know, when I was a little younger and Isaiah Thomas was on the Knicks. You know, they used to do him when he was the coach. I used to go to them games with Jamal because Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson was on them teams. And it even started from near social media. They was like it was they'd be on his head. I'd be feeling bad because they be on my head too sometimes, but a lot be directed at

him because I'm m J. Stuff Funny. The culture in basketball, just to the energy of the Pacific nor West, particularly the Seattle area, basketball has been so strong. Um, what is it like out there in the summer. I mean, you guys probably have the most pros you could think of it, But what are those summers like? I know Jamal runs a summer league, but what is that interaction like? Because you guys have so many people that played in the NBA that are going to the NBA, that have

played in the NBA. Man, this everything and you know to to answer the question. First, is Doug Christy started that. You know, Doug Chrissy was he was the one that started that with Jamal and Jason Terry and those guys, and then it just trickled down. And I remember when I first met Jamal. I've known Jason since I was in third grade. His dad coached me growing up in high school. So Jet always been a mentor of mind. But when I met Jamal, I was fifteen years old.

I met Jamal. I remember the things that those guys always told me was like the things we do for you, we want you to do for the next guys coming up. And it's always been like that, and you know, in that area, it's been like that. From Jamal Crawford, Jason Terry, you go Brandon Roory, Nate Robinson, Aaron Brooks, Spencer Hawes, Martell Webster, the first guy out out of Seattle to go out of high school, stare of high school to

the NBA, and the list goes on. I mean, you got those older guys, then you got me the Jon T Murray, Kevin Porter Jr. Michael Porter Junior play one year high school in Seattle. So we're gonna count him in. I know I'm missing a lot, but the McDaniels brothers that play right now, we gotta we got a young group of guys that that are coming up as well,

so you know that that circle is really tight. And like you said, the summertimes be like when dudes get back home the next couple of weeks, you know it's gonna be It's gonna be like summer scene the runs at ul A explained the summer scene because of the Summer League, Like you gotta have people from all over the NBA but all the world coming out there to

play Jamal Summer League. And like I said, that started with Doug Christie back in the day, and then it transferred over to Jamal, which Doug gave it, gave reins to Jamal, and Jamal has been I mean, he's at you out there, He's at He's had everybody out there. And that's the dope thing because during the week we play, all the pros play, and then during the weekend is when Jamal asked his his pro am. So it's like all week we're hoping and we're kicking it with each other. Right,

It's real. It's a real brotherhood up there. That you know, unless you're in it, you can't. It's hard to explain. Everybody's super solid and super close because we went out there. When we went out there for a Jamal's wedding wedding and played at midnight. We had at midnight and it was like ship was sold out. But that's when I saw the Dejon Murray for the first time. That because this high school kid who's nice as fun, I'm like, all right, you know, I was already blowed. I didn't

really want to play anyway. It was at midnight. You just trying. You want me to stay sober the whole entire Anyway, we made it happen. But this young boys, he was incredible. Bro Like he's like a young Jamal watching he had bounced to this nigga was in I think he's only a junior at the time the game, but I remember that just like it was midnight and the gym was packed. That's how much love they had for Jamal. It was crazy. But he did it for

its wedding though. It was like one of his wedding and that was like we all like blade DJ out there high school. You spent three years self camp prep and then you transferred. What made you go prep school? So prep school. I had to get my academics right in order for me to accept the scholarship at University of Washington. So, um, I did three years of high school at back home, UM, I did two years. I did an extra year of high school at the prep school. So I had to get my grades right in order

for me to accept the scholarship. And then once I was able to do that, which was probably the toughest thing I've ever been through in terms of it was an all boys school, suit and tie every day. It was just different from where I came from. And then at sixteen years old, leaving you know, my parents, leaving my clothes home, that was tough. That was that was a cultural change for me. Like it went from me having to wear a suit and tie every day to you know, me being the man back home like that.

That that was tough. But in order for me accomplished my goal of making it to college and you know, possibly making it to the NBA, I had to go do it. And looking back at it now, that was probably one of the best decisions in my life because it made me grow up faster than I needed to.

I was on my own at six team, so you know, from sixteen on, I haven't been back home, you know, like we're living under my parents, and I think that's helped me become you know, the young man, the man I am today and you know, ultimately the father I am as well. So you know, it was it was a good side too. Yeah, at the time that that ship was, it made me think, Yeah, I was in Connecticut, the middle of nowhere. But luckily the good thing about that Jamal and Nate played for the Knicks. So I

would take the train up. Yeah, I would take a little train over the White Plains for the weekend and I was able to kick it with them. So who else was recruiting you besides Washington? So ultimately, um, before I committed to Washington, I was going to commit to Indiana. I wanted to Guysa Thomas. I wanted to following that, they had a coach and Mike Davis, which was African African America and coach. It was. It was really good

and gave me one of my first offers. He ended up getting fired and I had to go in a different direction. And then I if I wasn't gonna go to Indiana. I wanted to stay home. And then but when I went to prep school, that's when like Yukon came on me all the East coast, and I was thinking about opening my recruitment back up because you know, I was never recruited by them schools. But then, you know, I wanted to go back to the crib. At the end of the day, I wanted to be home. I

took two years. I was two years away from home already. I was ready to get back home and you know,

try to put on for for my town. And I was able to do that in a in a cool, solid way a lot of accolades packed ten freshmen the Year Tournament m v P. What was your college experience like that you were back at home and you were killing man, it was everything because you know, before before I went there, should we had Nate Robinson, there Will Conroy, Trey Simmons, m Brandon Roy obviously the best, you know,

guy to come out of University Washington. But you know, when I was headed back home, I was hyped because I was away for two years, so I was hyped to be able to you know, put on for the state of Washington, to be able to you know, go to a big time college and just who and be home at doing it. So it was it was probably

the best experience of my lifetime. Like college was so dope, just you know, lifelong friends that we still got group text with with all my teammates and everything with being back home and going to college was everything I dreamed of, and we happened to be pretty good. Like we went to Sweet sixteen one year, we went to n c A tournament three years in a row, so it was

it was some success back home. And then you know, ultimately I was able to get my jersey retired back in college, so it was ship that you know, it was happening then I didn't even dream of when I was a kid. Talked to us about your legendary shot you made in the pack team tournament. So the shot, um that was that was everything because obviously it was a National TV championship games as Johnson in Staples Center.

You know, Coby's my favorite player, so it was like that whole last possession, I was like, man, this is what Kobe did, this is what and my coach for the first time in my little college career, when I told him it's good, I got it. He was like, Okay, go to work, and I was able to, you know, isolation play at the top of the key. I think yet the day before kimber Walker hit hit step Back, so it was already in my mind like, okay, I might have to go to the step back, this is

my chance, and you know I did. I did a little crossover. He sat on the crossover step back at me, my separation, and once I shot it, you know, I knew what was going in and and it was just like you know, everything you dreamed of being in outside at the park when you're a little counting down from ten and you know, thinking you're Michael Jordan's than you're Michael Jordan's Kobe. So that was that was like a moment that you know, I'm an cherish forever for sure.

Who as did you? Busting CAUs was mimmorable man. College was. College was tough. You know, I didn't really cook nobody like I was doing in the NBA in college. You know, I didn't. I didn't. You know, college is a little well you didn't go to college. So college was, you know, it was It's harder to score in college. I feel like because it's just there's no space, no space, no defensive three seconds in the key. So obviously I was doing well, but I didn't really cook nobody that that

I can remember. Obviously, the the game winning shot was probably my biggest moment. And I had a pretty good game that game too, but it wasn't no game where it stood out where I was frying the next guard. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not even I could have just but you saved that for the biggest stage. Yeah. Yeah, So that the game winner was I could say that was.

That was probably the one of my best games. So with all the accolades you acquired in college and you end up being the last pick of the draft that after after you're done, what was that? Like? That was the longest day of my life. That was? That was a tough day, just because I probably obviously going into the draft I knew I wasn't gonna be like I was. I was projected to be early second round, like that was the highest I was like, okay, I'm solid with that.

If I'm just giving a realistic chance, I'm taking them run with it. I probably had like twenty workouts, you know, that pre draft, so I was chasing everybody like I was. I was just trying to just show everybody that I'm I'm I'm better than the next week some of the guys you were working on the draft. Who was in that draft with you? Man, So Kyrie Averon was number one, obviously he wasn't he wasn't about to go against nobody

but Brandon Knight. I went against him. I went against a few second round guys they got picked ahead of me. Um not that you know, I don't want to put no names out there. We ain't on that. But I destroyed dudes. I destroyed them. I destroyed I mean, I'm not even like, I'm not even gotta sugarcoated. I destroyed them. And that's why it was frustrating on draft night because I'm like, I think, what else do they want? Like we went head to head, guys is getting drafted before me.

I've better college careers than them, And it was just tough. But you know, at the end of the day, I was like, Okay, if I'm drafted, that's all I ever asked for. It was a chance Sacramento, which was my first workout in two thousand eleven. I forgot all about them after the Lakers. They have four second round picks, and I thought at least one of those picks was

gonna be me. And once they picked two guards where I think, like the fifty second pick, fifty fourth pick, my mind started the race like, dang, I probably not gonna get drafted because I forgot about Sack. And then my agent called me, like the fifty eight pick. They he like, Sacks gonna drafted with the last pick, and that's when I was like, cool, I'm not even tripping if they give me a chance. I'm prepared. I know what,

I know what to do with it. And then you know, my back was against the wall because that year was the lockout year. We didn't have no summer league, so you know summer leagues where I could have got busy,

and you know, I got a guarantee deal. So I went all the way into Shi the lock I was over, like I think the day before Christmas, Chas got invited to training camp and then it was all she wrote after that, like I was able to get a solid opportunity to show, you know, I can play at this level, and you know, every step of the way, that's all I did. I just prepared myself and then when my name was called, I tak advantage. What was your welcome

to the NBA moment? My welcome to the NBA moment was So the first game of the season, we played the Lakers um Kobe Bryant, obviously my favorite player ever, there was a ruling training camp, Paul Westfall rest in peace. Guys would try to back me down, and they would just always turn the ball over for whatever reason. Like I'm not saying I'm super defender, it's just they would They would try to exploit, you know, the mismatch, but always seemed to turn the ball over and take a

bad shot. So in training camp, Paul west Falls like nobody's backing down. I t like, don't do it, or you're you know, you're getting subbed out. So when Paul west Fall put me in the game, I remember the second quarter he's naming who everybody got, and then I'm like, coach, who do I got? He's like, you got Kobe, and remember nobody can back you down. I'm like like it was funny because I was like, I appreciate you putting me in, but bro Kobe's back and everybody down, Like

it didn't it didn't matter. So the first three possessions, they do a little ice. So I'm over behind Kobe just smiling like I'm like, I'm smiling, trying to guarden, knowing he's about to fade away. He hits two out of three shots. The first shot he hit, I'm spreading down court just laughing, like, damn, I'm here, like the first time in my life where somebody scored on me. I was like I was. I was smiling and happy about it because you know, that was my favorite player.

So it was like even touching his jersey, I was like, damn, I made it. Just faded away on me all game solid, And that was my welcome to the NBA moment. West Hall throwing me in there and being like nobody could back you down, and me having to guard Kobe the first three possessions of my NBA career. So that was Remember how many he had that game. I don't remember how many he had, but he had four on me, he had two. He was two for three. He was two for three on me. So that was that was

my little welcome to the NBA moment. For sure. What was the state of the Kings at that time? You got that a lot of young talent. Yeah, we was, and we had de Marcus Cousins, Rudy Gay, we had we had a talented team. Like but like you said, we were young. We was young. I think it was three or four coaches in my three years there, so there was no like stability there and it was just tough. I mean, you guys know, being on the young team,

having having different coaches, there's no structure. So that was that was probably the toughest part. Because we had the talent, we just couldn't put it together. We just couldn't put it together. But my experience has Sacked. They gave me my first chance. Then fans and Sack are amazing the community and sacked like I fell in love with Sacramento like that will always be you know, a special place in my heart for sure because they gave me my

first Yeah, yeah, shout out to your on town. They gave me my first They gave me my first opportunity, and you know, I tried to take it around with it. Talk to us about how good book he was. Man, he was every big before before what they're doing now and be joker, Yeah he was with all due respect, but he was you know what they are now like he was the point sending in yea doing it all.

He was doing everything, and it was that's the frustrating part because he was doing so much, but there was no way we was we just wasn't built to win. And it was just a waste of years for him because as you guys know, the first few years, like obviously everybody's trying to get paid. But that was like a generational talent, you know, before he got hurt, he

was I mean, he was what MB's doing. He could bang with you, he could take you to the wingah wait wait, wait more fluid and you know, bookies, that's that's my dog. And he did it, you know, his way, like like it wasn't gonna be no other way. But he you know, you the only thing you can do is respect that he didn't change for nobody, and you know, that's that's my dog. And I'm happy to see him, you know, in a winning situation where he could you know,

possibly want to check. I think he got some good games and now he got some situation right now where they rocked with him too. So it's important, you know,

that's all it's about. Mike Malone. What kind of coaches, he what was your connection, Like Mike was a players coach, he was he was for the culture for sure, and I think that was the first coach did the markets, you know, somewhat respected, you know, from day one, and and I think, you know, you see what he's doing in Denver right now, it's like it's obvious because he's a player's coach. He relates to the players, and he's been like that ever since. You know, he's been an

assistant in the league. His dad was a coach with the with the Bad Boys. Um, so it's it's installed in them to be that. And he's a hell of a coach man. He let me rock out. My third year was kind of like my breakout year. You know, I averaged twenty points six assists, and I had a lot to do with him. I remember one conversation he had with me at one point in my third year because everybody was in my ear about, you know, trying to be a pass first point guard. That's just never

been who I am. I'm a scoring guard that makes plays. And I mean one time he brought me inside. He's like, Bro, you can't be John Stockton. There's no way you're not gonna be him, be you, and be who Isaiah Thomas is. And you know, ever since that day, I kind of took that, you know, that confidence that he instilled in me and ran with it because you know, all all

the NBA is about his opportunity and situation. Everybody got who game if you if you're putting the right situation where there's confidence poured into you nine times to attend sure, that's what people don't understand. THO was that kid? A situation like that in Golden State that the team Jack and I played on with Nellly was like the first coach, I just go out there, but I don't care if you make a mistakes, just play hard. And when you hear a coach tell you, like, really, what I'm in

the coach? You know, all due respect to every coach out there, but you know that could be the best defender for most players, right, you know, he could be first team All defense for real bull you know, and you gotta, you know, somehow figure out ways to to get past those. But you know, sometimes that should be tough. You break out with the career or your third year twenty point six or sist you're part of a signing trade to Phoenix and talk to us about that with

that blindside, Are you expecting that? No, it was because I signed with Phoenix UM in the free agent and then they had to work to signing trade. So I knew that was gonna happen. I was surprised that I didn't go back to Sack. That was probably the biggest surprise because I felt like with them bringing guards in every year and then me sending them out, I feel like that was enough for two or straight years. But you know, obviously, change your heart whatever the situation. Maybe

I go to Phoenix. We end up having three guards, Blessed Old Tragic. Tragic just come third team All NBA. He had a hell of a year. They almost make the playoffs. I'm playing well that year. Obviously we're playing well. I think we're seventh in the in the West before the trade deadline happened in the trade, but it was just it was before you know now where three or four guards can play with each other at the same time. It was just tough, like because every night somebody was upset.

Obviously because we had Tragic bled so me. We also had Gerald Green too, so like me and Gerald was coming off the bench, and there'll be some nights where we are in the game and obviously they just played bled. They're trying to pay Tragic, so they're gonna be hot, you know, if they don't end the game. So it was heated at times, not between us though, not between the players. Obviously we had we was we were solid.

That was one of my, you know, my best teams I've been on in terms of the guys on the team, the camaraderie we had everybody. Everybody messed with each other, and Phoenix, you know, is all of it. So then you know, and then I get traded in the or a year to where it was a blessing of guys. Obviously I get traded the Boston It was all she

wrote after that. I mean, obviously you're you can continue to improve and everything kind of comes together in Boston, Um, you know, with the historical franchise talked to us about obviously being there and then how things just kind of continue to transpire for you. So for me going to Boston, UM, I was caught. I was caught off guard with that trade mid season because we was in the playoff race.

We knew Tragic demanded the trade, so we were waiting on that, and then when that happened, like five minutes later, agent calls, he's like, you're about to get traded to Boston. I'm like, damn, I'm already thinking they just traded Rondo, so they rebuilding, Like this would be my first time even possibly making the playoffs if I stayed with Phoenix. So I was hot at the situation because I knew they were in rebuild mode and I'm like, man, I

don't want to be on a bad team again. But I remember the first person calling me after the trade. Oh Guysaiah Thomas. He's like, you might not think it now, but this is gonna be the best. This is the best, you know, situation for your career. And at that time, I'm like, and bro, I'm in Phoenix is high. I don't even got a coat. Boston is rebuilding. This coat is hell out there. I'm like, man, I don't want to go. This is before I talked to Danny, talked

to Brad, all them. So then I get traded there, and then I just you know, genuinely, it worked out like they needed somebody like me. I needed somebody like them that was gonna give me a chance. To go rock out and then I was able to do that. Brad put the ball in my hands, and you know it was for three years. It was it was everything I dreamed of, you know, being the man obviously from the jump. It wasn't like that. I was the six man the first year and the second year. So who

was on the team when you first got there? Are the starters, So it was Marcus Smart, every Bradley and that was Smarts rookie year, every Bradley, and then I forgot who else after Evan Turner was there and those were the guards. So my first year I was thinking when I got traded, I'm like, okay, I'm coming in and starting cool. They said I was coming off the bench. I was fine with that. I end up playing really well the end of the year. We end up going

to the playoffs against swept by Cleveland. Fast forward the second year, which was my first All Star year. I remember Brad Stevens coming to me in pre CD. He's like, man, you're you're obviously our best player, but for this team will be best you to come off the bench. And I was like, like that hurt me because I worked hello hard that summer. I'm like, this is a good opportunity. I'm gonna be starting it hurt, but I'm like, okay, I get it. It's all good. Two games into the season,

Smart end up getting hurt one game. I don't know how he messed up his tall shoot around. He like, I'm not playing. Brad's like, you're gonna start tonight. But this ain't permanent because they knew when when when they when they said I was starting. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna take it the inn with. It's not permanent. Smart come back. You're gonna go back to im, Like okay, Smart comes back in two games. But those two games I had thirty one and nine. Every end up getting hurt.

So I stayed in the star in line and then it was over after that, Like little little do people know that the start that year, I was supposed to come out the bench my first All Star year, and then those two lower injuries average thirty and then it was over. And then you know, I took that opportunity and ran with it. I ended up, you know, making my first All Star game, which was crazy because it was Kobe's last All Star game in Toronto, so it

was just you know, I always dreamed of that happening. No, I don't. I didn't know if it was gonna happen. I didn't know if that opportunity was ever gonna come. But I knew one thing, I was gonna be prepared

for it if it did. And then my third year, which was my second All Star year, the game just got The game just slowed down for me, like it was just so easy after that, No disrespect to nobody, it was just I knew every night I was gonna get thirty, just because I had the opport union I prepared for like I knew where my shots was coming from. I knew, I knew all of that, and I prepared,

Like I said, I prepared for those moments. I always dreamed about being the man, being on one of the best teams in the NBA and having that opportunity, and then when it came. One thing that I do regret. Those opportunities I never like, I never, I guess I appreciate, not appreciated them. I was so locked in the moment that I was like, man, not like the fun I should ad sixty Like I never enjoyed those moments because

I was just so locked into what's next. And I always say, like, I think I was just so paranoid because you know, nothing was ever given to me. So I was always just like I might go back to bench tomorrow, you know, like that was my mindset. So those three years in Boston were everything to me. They were they they they allowed me to reach heights that I only dreamed of, and they allowed me to reach, you know, be able to inspire so many kids that looked like me, that's my height, that did never get

a real chance. So you know, that's what that was for. When I was able to hit the top like that, it was like it was for the next little dude that has that has a problem getting his foot in the league. You know, showing that a little dude can have the number one record in the NBA, to be the number one seed, to take a team to the conference finals, like that can happen, you know, when it's not normal. They don't like that. So that's that that's

the hardest part. So you know, that was my motivation to make it easier for the you know, the guys coming behind me. So fast forward into the playoffs, the seventeen you tragically lose your sister. Um, talk to us about that moment, that experience. I lost my mom at the beginning after the We Believe season, like diagnosed with cancer number one, only seven, and I was out of it. The whole year was kind of a wash. You were able to, through the grace of God, continue on it

and actually played great. But talk to us just about that experience and how important she was to you. Man, that was I always tell people that was the best year of my career, but the worst year of my life, you know, like that was that was real life ship that I went through, and that that I mean, you know, it's still it still hurts me to this day. But I think the thing that kept me going was like basketball has been the only thing that ever keep me

going when I'm going through some real ship. So like people always asked me, how did you play? It was like that was the only option, that the only thing. Yeah, I wasn't about to be at the house and just crying the whole time. Like that was my to three hours where you know, I can get that off my mind. But then obviously at the end of the game, real life hit, Like when I'm going back home, it is

just it's back to She's not here. So obviously my teammates, the organization, my family, you know, everybody in my im media circle helped me throughout that. Throughout that time, that was the that was the toughest time in my life. But to answer your question, basketball was the only thing that I could possibly do too to be solid for the most part, and that was all herd. That was all guy like, you know, I was, My hip was sucked up. I was battling and I wasn't just battling

on the court. I was bottling in real life. And that that was that was the hardest part. And you know, knowing the season I had and how many people I was reaching to inspire, that's why I kept going. I'm like, bro, this can change somebody's life. You know that that's going through some real ship to give them the courage to keep going. And you know, that's all I did. Obviously

I hurt myself even more. I sucked up my money, but in that moment, there was no other way, Like if I if I had to do it again, I would probably do it again because that was the only thing that they helped me through that, you know, the toughest time in my life. And you know, you take the good with the bad when it comes to stuff

like that. Right, you dropped thirty three hours after hearing this news, rally your team back from an O two devasit to beat the Bulls, win the second round, going to the conference finals against Cleveland, and like you said, fux your hip up, but kept press because sometimes we're our our own worst enemies. And you know you're on

the brink of consistent All star MVP conversation. That big paycheck is right around the corner, That hundred and fifty million is right around the corner, that competitor, and you wouldn't let you stop talk to us about just getting to that conference finals and then being heard and then kind of the trickle down effect after that. So I heard myself back in March, carynthon Towns that fell on me mhm um, tweeting my hip a little bit. But at that point in time, I only mess our knee up,

like I sprained my knee. My hip was like I didn't feel nothing to a couple of weeks later where I just I felt some discomfort in my hip. It wasn't nothing crazy. We took in my eyes, everything was solid boom. Once we had the playoffs, the tragic news happened, my hip was slowly getting a little worse. The only thing that I would that I would have against Boston. You know, everybody hated Boston for what they did to me. It's a business. I understand it. I'm not tripping on it.

The only thing that I I think they handled wrong was not explaining to me what the extent of my injury could be if I do play. So that that that was That was the biggest thing for me. Did I did? Did I disliked because nobody gave me no insight. Okay, if you do play, this can happen. We have to hear that because everything it's at the end of the day, it was a bomb bruise, Like that's what they said, you know. So if you're gonna tell me it's a bone bruise, I'm playing ten times as here, like I'm

gonna figure it out. I'm gonna get through that. So that was probably the only thing that I wish they would have done different, and I would have really sat down and really asked those questions like what worst case scenario or what happened? Obviously that didn't happen. Fast forward, I keep playing to Game two of the Eastern Conference Finals. I remember, no disrespect to Darren Williams, but he was on his way out like he was getting a little slower. I do a move and he just he just stand

in front. I'm like, damn. I'm kind of fast and quick. I'm like, damn, Like what happened? And I just felt like a shot in my like in in my in my side, and I'm like, I tell the side. I'm like it might be over because I couldn't push off no more. And then you know, halftime comes and that's when they shut it down. They're like, you're done, and I'm like I couldn't. I couldn't move fast forward. I'm done for the season. We go take a look at um some some surgeons to see if I needed surgery.

The best option was to wait it out, to let you know, the swelling go down, see see let the summer go by, and then see what I have. Then I get traded to Cleveland. So that that's what hurt me the most because they know all the ship she went through. I went through like I played with my sister and that was my decision. So that's not on them. The only thing that I would put on them is they didn't give me the extent of my injury. That's the only thing. But I decided to play, so I'll

take that hit you said the payday. Obviously, that's in the back of my head. I'm thinking about, like I was gonna be a Max player, so to keep it real, I'm like, should I gotta play? Like you know, I'm five nine. If I don't play, they're gonna forget about me. That's how I always felt, just being the smaller guards. So I played through it hurt myself even more. Fast forward to August, out of nowhere, Danny calls me like, asked me how my day was this and that I'm like, okay,

everything solid. He's like, I t I just traded you. I'm like to where he's like Cleveland for Kyrie and then you know, obviously, I mean, it just don't seem real that at that point in time, I get off the phone with him, I tell my wife, tell my family, and I'm like, the only thing that that made me hot about it. I think if if I wasn't injured and I got traded, I was like, oh, I'm not tripping, I'm gonna play with Brian we got a chance to win the championship. The fact that I was injured hurt me,

Like you hurt me. I'm a human at the end of the day. And the fact that they knew how bad my hip was and to trade me on that that hurt. So, you know, there was a lot of people did you know. I was like, man, he should stop crying. He It was like, first of all, I wasn't the one bringing it up. The media was. I

just answered the questions. And the second off, it was just like at the end of the day, like don't forget, like I got real feelings, Like I'm human and at the end of the day, I'm not just a basketball player. So for them to trade me when I did get hurt on their watch, that was hurtful. But then after that, you know, I moved on, like I was able to rehab for like six months play in January. I think I played twelve thirteen games. It wasn't playing like they

thought it was. They traded me to Lakers, and then you know, you go from being an all start in m VP too, you know, being on a rebuilding like your team there's not trying to make the playoffs in less than a year that that was. That was a lot for me. And then, like I told you guys earlier, dealing with pain every day like, but I was going through it like and at the end of day, my sister still ain't around, like, so I'm still trying to

figure that out. So for like two three years straight, man, every day was a battle for me, like, you know, not just hoop wise, the health wise and that, Like I don't think people necessarily always understand, Like it wasn't about who at that point. It was about you know, every day trying to be in a good mood and have no pain. So you decided obviously just to let

to wait it out then the first time around. So the first time, I decided to wait out because I'm like, okay, the first option was to wait it out, see what it's gonna be like when the when the swelling goes, I mean to cut you off. When did you find out how serious it was when you heard it the second time? Or do you still didn't know how serious? So when I heard it the second time, when I was done with the season, we went to the best hip specialist and that's when it was like they've never

seen cartilage go away that quick. So we went from in March she was a normal hip to bone on bone in June. Like that's three months. So in June when I went, when we went to go, you know, to the top hip specially hip specialists in New York, that's when I knew. I'm like, you feel me, My hip is messed up. So I gotta figure out what's the best what's the best option for me going forward? The number one option was the surgery I just got last year, but nobody got it. So I'm like, I'm

not about to be the excess. Yeah, I'm not about to, especially when my careers on the line, Like I'm trying to get paid next year. At the end of the day, it was like, bro, I gotta be available to get paid next year, no matter what it is, whether it's max, whether it's a one year contrade, regardless whatever it is. So I was like, I can't have an option of surgery because I'm gonna have to sit out the whole year.

It's a whole So how long is it? Was? The prose really eight to ten months, you know, So that was the I would have basically sat the whole year and win in the free agency not playing off of surgery that they haven't really seen nobody come off of. So then I rehab that year, played for the Cars, four teen games, get traded, play a few games for Lakers. I'm playing a little better for the Lakers. But then

like my hip just still messed up. So I'm like, I talked it over with my close circle of people. I decided to just do at the scopic surgery, try to clean it out and see if that would help that shi. It made it worse. That should made it worse. I rehab for like ten months, and that's supposed to be like a four month rehab. It made it worse. I signed with Denver that year, the one year, the one year that minimum I don't play into February that year.

They allowed me to take my whole time. So I appreciate the Denver Nuggets so much because they didn't pressure me into playing at all. They allowed me to take my time. Then you know, I'm feeling cool, but I'm just not myself and it's obvious, like I'm I'm a shell on myself and I'm I'm having to tell people I'm cool to get by obviously, I'm five nine on a injured hip. Like, you know, I'm not really even supposed to be an NB at this point because I

can't be myself. I'm not quick, I'm not fast, I'm not who you know was able to be All stars. I'm not that no more. So. Then fast forward, I signed with the Wizards. I start. I played forty two games, I start forty of them. I'm playing solid, but still not great. Like when you're a little you gotta be exceptional, you gotta every night, gotta be special. And that wasn't me. They traded me the Clippers. I get waived. Fast forward,

the pandemic happened. Everything shuts down, and that's when I had a heart to heart with myself, like okay, we're gonna ride this out and try to just force it and see if we can get on the team. Or I'm gonna fix my ultimate problem. And then you know, I sat down with the surgeon and that was the best ecusion of my life. It changed my whole life. You know, whether I'm on the NBA team or not. My daily life, I have no pain no more. I got range emotion. My surgical hip is better than my

my you know, my my normal hip. It changed my whole life. It got my mental illness space where nobody can ever take that from me again. And when you get that shot, you're capable of taking care of it completely. Now you know what I mean. And that's why that's why I'm really not tripping on anything, because I'm like, I know, when it does come like a real legit chance, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be prepared to take advantage

of it. Before it was like the cards had to be perfect, but I had to be walking into some I didn't. I was. I was basically telling them I was good and knowing I wasn't, so everything had to be perfect. It had to be Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna be a starter. I'm gonna be a six man. I'm gonna play twenty five minutes. Now I know what

I can work with. Now, it's like, you put me in any situation, if you really give me a chance, I'm gonna show you because I'm healthy and I'm only thirty two years old, Like I really haven't played in three years, so it's not like I was. I was banging my body in and playing the last eighty two games every year, like I really haven't hoop hoops. Yeah, in two two and a half years, you know, so I'm ready to go. There's something all of us. Man.

When we played hurt, we on the outside in the shelf, we physically like, yeah, man, we can do it, but in the back of our mind were like, man, why am I out here hurting? And that's what it was. In the game. I'm like, I gotta fake it, but I know deep down like I'm I just don't got it. I was. I was relying on the jump shot at five nine. It's like my strength is going into in the in the paint and making it happen. I couldn't do what I've always done. So that was the most

frustrating part. And then, you know, like I said, once the pandemic hit, I had to be real with myself. I'm like, Okay, we're gonna either get the surgery or you're gonna have to thug it out and live with the consequences. And the surgery was like, Okay, it's gonna scare some people, but at the end of the day, I'm gonna be healthy, and all I need is one, one, one person to give me a chance. And it took me six months to get back. So you know, I

told you eight to ten months. It was six days a week for seven straight months in rehab because I knew it was at stake. It's like, this is my career on the line, and I love this ship, so I'm gonna do whatever it texted you don't get it back, and I'm here today. You know, I obviously, I obviously want to be on a team, but I know when

my name is called, it's go times for real. You've gone into great detail about the physical pain and and day to day and even playing, But talk to us about that mental because you said your mentor is right and and and where you are mentally, because I'm sure the mental was more fun up than you actual pain was. The pain was obviously there, but the mentor was like I couldn't hide that. I couldn't take that, Like you couldn't.

You gotta get through that somehow. And you know, with everything happening back to back, my sister me getting hurt, getting traded three or four times in that small span of time, like yeah, for the first time in my life. Yeah, I'm like, damn, like is it over or is this do I just gotta do something else? And it was a lot for me. The mental part cut to me. But at the end of the day, I always was like, hoop is what I love. So if until I can't

do it no more, I'm gonna try. And I always told people, I'm like, the easy thing to do at the end of the day is to quit. Anybody can walk in and quit and be like, I'm gonna throw the towel in, I'm tapping out. The hard thing to do is when some some real adversity hits you too, to be okay, how do I get through that wall? How do I get through that adversity? And I just stayed down, I stayed solid. I had the right people

around me. Um. I remember d Rose telling me when we was the ro Is one of my close homies, and he told me when he was going through his ship, he was like, I was trying to fight against everybody. And once I let that fight, my mental just eased up and I was able to get through it all. And once you know, during that time with Cleveland and jumping the teams and chasing that that Max, once I was done with that, like and I had no more

fight to to prove the people. I was like my mental just slowed all the way down and then Ship I did the surgery. I had no pain, no more. I'm like, my money is good, I'm I'm I'm straight, my kids is healthy. But one thing that kept me going was my little boys was watching me every day. Even though they would they would make jokes about how you know in the league, no more of you that

you used to be. You miss everything now you used to make everything in Boston like those That's what kept me going because I knew if I did lay down and tap out at some point in their life, they're gonna tap out with some ship. That's That's that's why we comme in you, Bro. That's another reason why we want to want to have you on the show, because we're like giving giving our brothers that they flowers. I know a lot of times, Bro, I could be ing with my girl and I go to the game and

I'm I'm not there. You know what I'm saying, just from an argument at home. I can't go out and perform. So our comm in you because to for everything you've been through it and to be able to perform and to still walk around with your chin up knowing how how even though we know it's not fat, but to

still be strong. It takes a lot. But a lot of people that's on the outside looking in would never understand how hard that is, not at all, and and like and that's the mental side of it, Like we ain't even talking about the physical, like what you gotta fight and work out every day and grind and and then you're playing against the best players in the world. Like my physical wasn't there and my mental was checking out,

so like I was, I was going through it. But you know, they like they say that it can't stom forever. You know, at some point that something got to come out. And I really felt that. And then having mentors like r I, P. Kobe Alright, P. Nipsey Hustle and really taking that marathon lifestyle and knowing, Okay, there's gonna be bumping the road, there's gonna be tough times that you're

gonna hear that versity. But at the end of it, when you fight through that and you run through that wall, the only thing you can do is having your chin up. And nobody can tell me not no more. Like I've been through it and I came out of it. You feel me with my mental right then do no no goofy ship. Then do no lane, not nothing Lane. I just stayed true to myself and I stayed solid, and

I just kept working. And you know, I know at some point that opportunity is gonna come because I never cheated the game, not one time, and I know it's gonna come. And when it does, I'm gonna take it wrong with it and I'm just smile. I'm not gonna be like I told you so, I'm not gonna shoot

on nobody. I'm gonna just smiling, be appreciative, and be like, you know, for the people that's looking, that's behind me, I'm gonna be like, this is for you guys, because when you hit adversary, the best thing to do is just run through it. Find a way, ain't no choice. You get a chance to play for the US basketball team. How good was it to get out there and play with Joe? But just get out there and really play again?

Pain free? Man? It was everything because you know a lot of people be like, why are you gonna play? You say you was this and that's like, I got no pride for this game. This game blessed me with you know, to have some money, to have to take care of my family, Like I got no pride when it comes to whop I go? How is that bad? Though? Yeah? How is that bad? So many people are So I'm going to Puerto Rico to play for the USA team.

It didn't matter me. And Joe was laughing about that, like when they hit him for it, He's like, hell yeah, like to to who for free? I mean to who and go to Puerto Rico, travel the world like only real hoopers know that. Like I ain't got no pride, Like when I'm really done, I'm gonna be hooping in the Big Three. Teel me like it's pride about that. That's hoops, real hoopers. So when I when I got the chance to to you just got excited to go ahead.

When when when I got the chance to play for Team USA in Puerto Rico, it was a no brainer. When they asked, I'm like, bro, give me an opportunity to show that I'm healthy, To give me an opportunity to play basketball on the team. And I just took it around with it. I took took it for what it was, and it was to go out there and play basketball. And that's what I did. And I was happy about that, and it ship had got me an

opportunity with the Pelicans, you know. A month later, it got me a little cool tended with the Pelicans, and you know, that's just what I gotta do to get back in and I'm cool with it, So I love it. You mentioned our brother Rest in Peace and Nipsey Hustle. You guys that are particularly close, uh relationship talked to us about the relationship and what it was like. Man, I met Nipsey back in two thousand nine when I

was in college. He used to dude shows up in Seattle and I had a teammate that was from the Crenshaw district that put me on Nipsey, which is his name is Darnielle ghent Um. He went to Crenshaw High School and everything. He's the first one to put me on Nipsey's music back in the oh eight oh nine. You know, we we communicated on Twitter somehow, we exchanged information.

He came to Seattle, gave me some tickets. I got to chop it up with him, and then ever since then we was you know, we been close and he's just somebody that you know, it's easy to relate to, no matter you know what walk of life you are, what he stood for you can relate to if you're on an everyday grind, you know, And I spoke about you know what he called the marathon. You know, it's a lifestyle. And he's somebody that, you know, one of

my mentors. Somebody did you know if I needed game on anything, you know, life about you know, the mental part of things, about keep going and running your race. That's somebody always chopped it up with and somebody that always gave me real, genuine game, no matter what the circumstances was. And you know, it's rest in peace to him forever. And somebody that you know, left a huge mark on society, on the culture of you know where you know guys like like us come from. And you

know he lived he lived life the right way. And I think that's why so many people can't relate to, you know, what he's stood for. What's the best piece of advice he can ever gave? I think just to never give up. You know, your race is your race. I remember one time you're telling me your race is

your race, don't ever compared to nobody else's. And I think throughout my whole career always took that and ran with it, because you know, it's especially in our profession, it's hard to not compare yourself to the next dude special when dudes is getting paid and you play the same position and you produced in the same But once he told me that back in like before I got to the league, I took that and ran with it. And I was never worried about what the next name

was doing. I was always worried about and focus on, you know, my marathon and my race, because my ship is going to be different than anybody else's, and so how can I compare mind to somebody else when we're running two different marathons, two different races. And I think that's probably the best advice he gave me. And I, you know, I take it into this day pace of the Homi from one father and legend to another code. You wore his number when you had your brief ten

day with the Pelicans. Talk to us about what he meant to you and some experience. You have a code man. Kobe man everything to me. And Kobe was, yeah, Kobe was my Michael Jordan's. You know, Kobe was, like I said, my my family is from Inglewood, so I was Brainwashington to being a Laker fan. So in ninety six, I was seven years old and knowing who Kobe was getting drafted. Shock just came over like that was my childhood, you know, being able to when we graduating. Yeah, ninety seven, I

mean ninety six, I was seven years old. That's how when I got my ten day, I'm only thirty two now. When I got my tenday, a young dude called me, o g I'm like, Brod, don't do that. Don't do that one. Yeah, you were gonna wait a few years he was. He like, I'm twenty on, Like then I feel but I'm not. Yeah he was. I was like, I'm not that yet. But Kobe, you know, he was everything to my life, not just who. You know, I wanted to be him. I knew I wasn't just because

I was. I wasn't gonna be six six, I wasn't gonna be as big as him, but you know, he inspired me in so many different ways. And then when I was able to, you know, reach that level of you know, one of the top guys in the NBA, I was able to build a relationship with Kobe. And it wasn't just no whot relationship. It was an every day, you know, lifestyle relationship in terms of if I was going through something, I can hit him and he was hitting me right back. Um, and you know, he meant

everything to me. When when I was able to build that friendship with him, it was crazy checking my phone and seeing the text from Kobe, Like it didn't make no sense because you know, I looked up to him for so long. So you know, when I got signed with the Pelicans and they were giving me jersey options and twenty four was there, it was no brainer, Like I wanted to do my part into paying some type of homage to my favorite player to ever play the game.

And you know I was able to, you know, pay a little bit of homage to them a little two weeks I was there and playing in the NBA, and you know, that's the least I can do. And you know, I've been wearing Kobe since two thousand and fifteen to where you know, I get my little customized Kobe's and you know, even that it's like, you know, unreal, it's unreal looking at even that's unreal to be able to

you know. And then when I was with Cleveland, I had my own player edition codes where they came out and they had a little he had a little chip on the tongue to where you know, when my tooth came out in the playoffs. So like and Kobe did that, you feel me? And then Kobe to do the little he did like a deer basketball on me. And it was like those things that Kobe did, Like, I'm a Chaerish for the rest of my life because as you know,

that's a walking legend. And you know, I can't thank him enough for not just changing my basketball career, but changing my way of life. And you know, to be able to call those two guys rest in peace, mentors and somebody that I could you know when they were here reach out at any time and they hit me right back like you can't, actually you can't. Actually you know two people better than that. Talk to us about the Book of Isaiah, your documentary on your journey through

this tough process. So the Book of Isaiah we started in two thousand fifteen. But overall, once my career is over, I want to do a movie because I got a production company called Slow Ground Media. We're slowly doing documentaries, sports documentaries, real life you know things not just sports, but every walk of life. We're trying to tap into those lanes. So at the end of my career, I'm gonna do a movie on my my whole career, from my last year of college to my last year in

the NBA. And it's going to be called the Book of Isaiah. And you know, we've done a couple of documentaries, which one one one a Webby, which is Book of Isaiah to one of Webby that year that I was in Cleveland and got traded to the two the Lakers, that one of Webby, And I think, you know, I just want to tell my story because it relates to to so many people in the world. You know, me being you know five nine, me being counted out, me being not given no, no real chance to to really

succeed like everybody else be given. Um. I think that relates to the average you know, the average person out there. And to just show them that, you know, I go through real ship that everybody goes through, and to show them the ups and downs of a real career, I think it will only be beneficial to you know, the next generation of guys trying to make it, not just in basketball, but you know, in life, because you know, the things that I've been through have been you know,

it just haven't been sugarcoated. And it's also been documented. Like my ship, I've seen the bottom and I've seen the top and then seeing the bottom again. A lot of people's careers don't don't get to see both, and you I wanna. Obviously I've been documented since two thousand teen, but I want people to really see it a day in the day out of what guys like you know

ourselves go through. I think you said something interesting. You You started at load the sixtiest pick, not sure if you're gonna be drafted to an All Star averaging nearly thirty points a game, playing an All Star game with Kobe back down to the injury. You didn't know how bad it was to happen to have that surgery, How did how much did that? Just where are you as

a person? It wore me a lot. You know that goes back to them three years where my mentor was just I was trying to find it, you know, the up and down in the inconsistency of you know, not knowing what's next, going from the sixtieth pick, not knowing if i'mnna make the team to proving it, you know, I'm an NBA player, to get trade to Boston and you know, being a sixth man at first to taking it to I was fourth and MVP voting second team

on NBA. Then a year later or that year getting traded, to hitting rock bottom, getting injured, to signing one year deals, to going from supposed to sign a max deal to signing one year bat minimum deals like that. Ship hurt that ship, I killed my spirit. But what helped me throughout those times is I had little the little boys at home. Bro. I couldn't be sad in front of them. I couldn't have a bad day in front of them.

You know, like they feel that they see that. So that was my motivation to get it back and to hopefully get a chance to show that, you know, I'm I'm I'm who are always been, and I'm gonna be that and let me go out on my own. That's what I'm fighting for now. I'm just fighting for a legit chance to show that I'm I'm myself and that I have plenty of years to show I can still play at a high level. But to answer your question, mentally, man, I was cooked. I was cooked for a little bit.

But you know, I think my small circle of friends, my small circle of family, and you know, my mentors. I thank them for just sticking with me. I remember, you know, Damon Soltenmarer texts me like what don't break a nigga with Megan nigga, you know? And I take that to heart every day. You know that I won't allow this ship to break me ever. And you know if it went, if it did, it wouldn't. It won't. You can't, it can't and I'm not gonna allow it. And like I said, I'm in a great space mentally,

I'm in a great space. Then you know that's not gonna it. Don't rock. You know you don't like a boat no more. I'm even killed, don't know. Don't get too high, you don't get too low. I want to still you make it back just so you can talk it back to your kids. The point where I could my kids be talking big ship and I can't. I'm done playing. I can't talk. You know what I mean?

It just but out there right head like you you hate what you used to One of my son said something to me that I would have thought someone else was saying to me like, and you know it's it's there was no sugar cool daggers. They're hitting you right here, and I'm like, I'm just smiling off, like that's funny. Going through everything you've been through, the ups down to roller coasters. What advice would you give a younger player? The advice I would give a younger player, I think

the same advice d Rose game. You don't fight it, just take the punches, keep grinding, and you know they can't store forever. And you know, I think the biggest thing that I tried to tell those young guys coming in, it's like, enjoy the moment, bro. That's one thing I wasn't able to enjoy when I was at the top top because it was just what's next. I gotta do better. I was so pair annoying. Enjoy those moments, bro, because they're gonna pass and you go back and be like damn.

And that's what you know. When I was injured, I was dealing with like Dann. I was doing some crazy ship. I was breaking Larry Bird's records. I was breaking you know, the greats records, and I was so locked into those moments on some Kobe ship. I was so some mama mentality like it's just not good enough. I gotta keep

going to where. I think that's the best advice I can give those young dudes is staying those moments, bro, whether they're good or bad, enjoy those Enjoy those moments and keep grinding and don't get satisfied because once you get comfortable out there, you know they got another nineteen year old that's coming in trying to eat and you can't. You can't be complacent in this and you know, in this life, in this world, because you know it's it's

whatever you've done for me lately. Thoughts on Mayweather, Paul, will you be in attendance? We will be. How I'm not gonna be in attendance, but it's gonna be. It's gonna be entertaining. I know, I know the setup with this. He talked to him, that's your boy. Yeah, yeah, I haven't spoke to him since this, But what what's the what's the secret? He's just gonna entertain. He's an entertainer, right, so so he's not gonna try to punish and fall him the answers he didn't know. He's gonna try to

punish him. No, doubt. I know for it and when you know, when money talks. But it's gonna be fine. He's gonna be entertainment and then he's gonna make his case. Have you talked him since he snapped his half? No, I haven't. He was so I know. That's what I'm saying. He's got he's gonna make it to win before didn't. He didn't lay it down before. That's why he was Really, that's what I'm saying now. You know the champ coming always clean, clean everything. Was the first time we've seen

him risky. The one day they caught him slipping. That was the first we've seen him slipping. That was the first time we've seen he whatever he wasn't he wasn't to pay for that. That's on the back of his head. He know he gotta entertained the people who's watching. But he's gonna make it like you know, why I do this. It's gonna be fun. What about since we talked about? What about what you think he's gonna do? Come on, man, he's an entertainer too. He's done. He's a he's an athlete.

At the end of the day, he's gonna be locked in. You know, I hope he's locked in. I hope he locked in too. Since we're talking about Boxton, obviously the homies a homie to what were your thoughts when when Nate fought Jake and then the outcome, the outcome was laugh with it? Can you can you laugh with him about it yet? Yeah? I think it's to a point you can laugh with him now. Yeah, Like we've had our talks about it and he's laughed it off. So

obviously he got a million guys happened. You're not a boxing man, so like, at the end of the day, obviously, the internet is undefeated. You're gonna get you a little. You know, everybody make jokes about it. It was on national TV. But that's my dude. Yeah, yeah, and he was in a fraternity that you know, that's our guy. So obviously he got knocked. But you know, onto the next exactly at the end of the day, most don't have the balls to go do that, and you know,

he did it. He got knocked. We move on, you know, at the end of that, we we men, And I'm not gonna be at his house cracking jokes about it. You know, if somebody cracking joke, if you want to crack one, We're gonna crack him. But if not, you know, we just gotta keep it moving. It happened, and you know he still make the grade. And I remember after the yeah, after after I after that happened, I text him. I remember, I'm like, you know, because you know, everybody

been in situations where they've been embarrassing. I was like, Bro, you're still a superhero where we come from. Don't forget that. Feel me sorry. I tried to say my two cents and just remind him, like, you're still the greatest where we go from. Hey, we're talking nath one of the great best athletes evere we ever seen. So you know that don't define you. But I mean it was. That's my dude, Alright, quick hitters. First thing to cume of mind.

Shoot it at us. Top five point guards of all time, and that's to right off yah, off the cuff, right off the red. I'm gonna go with my name sake, Isaiah Thomas. Um, you gotta pay homage the magic Johnson first big point guard. UM, and then I'm gonna go just my errand I'm gonna go um, Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Chris Poem and no disrespect. This is just the top. Yeah, slid rapid fire, you plus four going to the black Top? What are you taking with you? Black Top? That's different?

So yeah, shot, Yeah, you got to be built to be out there. For the love of it. I'm gonna take Jamal Crawford as I'm ready for that. Me just me, Jamal Crawford on some real shot. I'm gonna take y'all too, because I need I need some goons, you know, case some ship go down. We need some dudes's gonna handle some stuff. That's four right there, black Top and now I'm gonna take hire. Yeah, because he's he's gonna put on the show. We don't have to do nothing, not security.

Yeah yeah, yeah, you're gonna be embarrassing to dude, should get our hand. Yeah, Like I said, some screens, we're gonna be better. We're gonna be making all the side mama when during time I would be smoking, YEA, working harder. We're working smarter. I got I got my protection. Nice. Top five artists in your opinion. Top five artists, Um jay Z, Drake, Tupac, Biggie and Nipsey. That's my list. Let me ask your question. Yeah, that is your list. Who was the most um famous rapper from Seattle? Baby

got back? However, you when that was he was a baby. Yeah, I was a baby when he was rolling around into Ferrari, the Red Ferrari. He has some things out there too. Yeah, for sure. The best five players ever from Seattle Washington area. Best five you go with? Who that's tough? Nate Robinson, Jason Terry, Jamal Crawford, Brandon Roy. Damn that was tough. Um. I'm gonna go with Martell Webster because he was the first to go out of high school and I always

got paid comments to him. He's the first to go in to high school from our states. So I'm gonna go with him. I'm gonna be the six man. So I'm gonna tear off this question quick. We'll get back to it. Tell people how good Brandon Roy was a man, and I remember I remember a lot of interviews back back then. You will always say he's one of the toughest to guard. Kobe said he had no weaknesses. Um, Brandon Roy on one knee because he only had one even from the college. One of the most special dudes.

I always said, I mean he would have been Hall of Fame if he would, he would have went down as one of the best shooting guards to play. And for somebody like Kobe to say he had no weaknesses run our tests, I think said he was the hardest guy he he might have had the guard Brandon Roy was the real deal. He was. He was tough for all of us because the size he was. He was too shifty, too shifty, you know what I mean. And he loved to go left strong hand was right, so

like which way do you force? Yeah? And it's and his step back was before time, before a time when he had a weird way of with his size being able to back anybody down. It was weird, like he could back. He would back you down like Kobe could back you down. No matter how big and strong you are, he still back you. He's still getting I'm like what Roy was special? And like you said, I mean from the jump it's been on one knee. Most don't know that. And then his other name you start messing up. But

the Roy special legend. Uh. Five dinner guests that are alive, five dinner guess So guys that I wanted to be with me at the dinner table you plus five better alive And I want Tupac because I just wanted I want to hear all the stories. I'm gonna go with my guys, Nipsey, him and cod Um. I want Snoop there, so she called Snoop Tupac Um. I always wanted to beat Will Smith. I never got to beat beat Will

Smith him. There's a loaded question right here, because you got a lot of motherfuckers that you know that we want. So if you can have your choice to pick the guests that you want to see on all the smoke, who would it be? Who would it be? Um? And if you know you need to help us? Yeah, because I got a list already. Yeah, I got one of the real Jamal hasn't been all right, No, thank you. We need to get you. I'm gonna get Jamal. I'm I'm gonna call him right there, Crawford, because he he

has all the stories in the world. He has stories about us, no no doubt, his memories insane, his memories unbelievable. He tickling us after every after every court. Jamal said, that's that's big, bro. Jamal gotta come out here because he had stories from where do you come in? He got Jordan's stories, got he got a lot, so I would love for him to end. It's and it's authentic on here. So he gotta breaking down and not sugarcoat, not Jamal Crawford. Gotta be on here because people don't know.

Jay kars is one of the best basketball minds you could be around. He kind of like you though, like he can student at the game. He can tell you stats, you can tell Oh my god, Bro, put him on the spot real quick. You got your phone on you FaceTime? Let me call show time. You know he ain't got FaceTime, You got got the green phone. The only person I know with the blackberries him and it probably still Flip Rose,

but they got to deal with blackberries something. I'm about to call him right now and see if he has you know answer, Oh damn, you know that? My god, Jay, this he needs to tell me for every game. Want leup line? Why smell it? What was that the popcorn popping? Smell? Smell it's popping? Its Jamal, it's show time. Look you want to speaker phone, I got I got stacking Matt here we are we on live live the show. You gotta come on. We need you, Bro. I gotta come

on your first show time. What's up Showtime? That's they wanted me to call you because we gotta get They need you on the they need you to get on there. For two years. I know they got a master play. They just waiting to bring me on you. They just we're saying, you got all the stories in the world. That's why you gotta come on s time. Fail. See he got it off the top of his head too. That's funny. Now, I was just calling you fail. Okay, we all have a good time. I'm coaching. The kids

love it. Yeah, it's dope, right, I told you many and your little man's a killer too. Come on, mans, your sun what you spect all right? Alright? Alright boy jamal Yeah. Man, We appreciate your time. Man. Man, we love you your journey. Appreciate you, man, We appreciate you. Man has been asking so yeah, like Jack said, and you've been through a hell of a journey. At the end of the day, like you have this together and

I love that you said that. That's why extensively asked you because you didn't see the best and you've just seen the worst. Thing. You're still here, man, and we with you. So man, we love you, we appreciate you. It's all always. That's a wrap, all the Smoke special guest Isaiah Thomas. You can cast us on Showtime Basketball YouTube with the I Heart platform Black Effects. See you

all next week. All of it. This is all a smoke, A production of the Lack Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime