Emmanuel Acho | Ep 96 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

That's my boy. We're starting to girl relationship. I'm glad he's on the show. Emmanuel, just here. Why are you pronouncing it like that? Literally high key? That's how I pronounced my name when I meet people. Yeah, I say, Emanuell got my friends. Jack is studying film though ja. Jack wants to be an actor, so you never know what you're gonna get from him the day. But thank you for joining us, man, We appreciate it. Welcome to California. Said,

you've been over a little bit of the pandemic. Man, I see you got your red Dorothy's on today like something like it? Yeah, yeah, something I said. I'm always in a suit. Bro, I gotta get this good. Get the knees out. Yeah, I have a good time. So what if I told you hold up, listen, bro, what you gotta watch him? I tell you all the guests you have to watch him. Bro, he get his jokes in real Yeah, you think they compliment to brother? Got

doth she needs? But you're good. Man's the second one. Always, it's the second one. You know about three strikes. But let's get to it. Drafted in two thousand twelve. You've been retired for three years now, transition into sports media, been through the four years of Trump, all the Black Lives Matter, George Floyd movement last year nominated for an Emmy. Congratulations, by the way, uncomfortable conversation with the Black Man. If I'd have told you all that happened in the last

ten years, what would you say? Honestly, I probably say nothing if you said we'll talk. If you said that, I'd probably be speechless. Um the I mean on the heights of the Emmy. Just found that out. That's like, thank you. Like, by the grace of God, I've been able to do a lot of cool things lately. Wrote a book All that Jazz partner with Oprah, but like a primetime emmy. I was like, yo, serious wild because it realistically I was drafted into the NFL, but I

wouldn't know. I get a football. I was good enough to make it, you know what I'm saying. But I wasn't trying. I wasn't gonna make no noise there. So if if you would have told me that ten years ago, I would have called you a liar, and then I would have been speechless. Yeah, well you don't think you make Why you had that attitude not making noise in football? It wasn't that, man, I'm calculated bro. So like I realized after four years in the NFL, you're vested, vested

pension and annuity. After four years, I looked myself in the mirror. I was like, I'm not gonna be an all pro. I'm not gonna be a pro bowler. So what am I playing for? You? Feel me? I was like, am I playing for money? I can go make more money doing something else. But I remember at the Rookie Symposium,

it used to be mandatory if you got drafted. They told us the average NFL player, he starts here salary wise, the average doctor starts here salary wise, and at about thirty five they crossed pass and I remember that stuck to me. Stuck to me, so I was like, I'm not gonna be that. I was like, let me see if I can do this. And so when I stepped away from the league at twenty six, I was like, no, you're not gonna get me. I'm not gonna be on the episode of Broke and all that. So, um, that's

really what it was. I could have hung on and could have kept playing, but for what And now it's all worked out. I mean we briefly touched the but really talked to me about this Emmy nomination and how your show Uncomfortable Conversation with the Black Man came about. I don't tell the story often, man, that's what you hear all the smoke we get first, and I don't because it'll take me to a place. Right. People ask me what was your inspiration behind Uncomfortable Conversations with a

Black Man? And I'm like, there was no inspiration. There was a devastation you feel me like, it wasn't like I was inspired to create Uncomfortable Conversation. Yesterday, I'm gonna go talk about race that's what we're gonna do. No. It was like, man, after I saw this black man, George Floyd get murdered, I was like, okay, I gotta do something. Y'all notice because y'all have teams like I have a team publicist assistants say, then saw that, and

you know you delegate. At first, you delegate responsibilities. I agent, I need you to do this. Publicist, do this, assistant do that. But when cats stopped getting stuff done, you know what you say, I'm gonna do it myself. And so I had kind of been sitting back in society like, Okay, civil rights leaders, sure, y'all got it under control. Police officers, yeah, y'all got it done in control. Um you know, activists,

y'all got it done in control. But after I saw the murder of George Floyd, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go do it myself. And so true story. I rent out a facility in Austin, Texas. True story, I called a wedding videographer because I didn't have anybody in the video industry, your wedding videographer. I hit my best friend, a track and field athlete, and I rented out the studio space, and I sat down in front

of a camera. Now here's a kicker. It's uncomfortable conversations with a black man, not uncomfortable monologue with a black man. So why was I by myself the first episode? I wasn't supposed to be My white home girl was supposed to do it with me. She drove from Dallas, Texas to Austin, Texas. We were sitting together, rehearsed all day Saturday. I did it on a Sunday. Sunday morning, I come downstairs. I had to stay in my guest room. I come downstairs, tears in her eyes. I can't do it. I can't

do it. You know, they don't want to see me. They want to see you. I'm like, huh, that's not how we practice. What you mean, I can't do what? I can't do it. I'm like, well, I don't have the luxury not to do it. And so I said, you know what, I'll do it myself. I get to the studio at ten fifty four, called time is at eleven. I opened the door with my right hand. On my left hand, my phone vibrates. I check it us. An old colleague of mine, a black woman Hey, I really

don't like this idea. You're doing uncomfortable conversations with a black man. White people didn't educate lacked people how to assimilate into their culture. Why do we need to educate them as how to assimilate into ours? Fair point? You gotta be their fair point. I simply responded, I'm gonna go as God leads, and um, I'm sitting in that room record the video. Five days later, I'm sitting at my desk in Austin, Texas. I gonna call it a

no Call Aladie number. Saturday morning. I'm sitting there eating some honey nut cheerios. True story called no Callady Number stack. I picked the joint up a cho McConaughey speaking, I want to have a conversation, like Matthew. Uh. He's like, I want to have a conversation. I'm like, all right, cool, we'll do it in like four days. We can do episode two. He said tomorrow. I said, Okay, McConaughey wants to do it tomorrow. We do it tomorrow. Record episode

to the next day. Five days later, again, another no Call Already Number. Hey, Emanuel, Um, this is so and so from Oprah Winfrey's team, Do you have time to talk to you today? I'm like, do I have time? Does Oprah hap time? My hop on FaceTime with Oprah? She's sitting in her kitchen just chill. Not like you know what, I'm staying in a studio giving it out cars Um. So she's sit in her room chilling, and

she asked me one question, what is your intention? I said, my intention is to change the world, not truly believe I can. And um, the rest is history to save you all. An elongated story. But next thing, you know, to New York Times best selling books and then the Emmy. Damn, it's a hell of a start to the show. I don't even know where to go from here. Now, more than ever, the athlete voice not only travels resonates day

to day, but travels around the world. What are your thoughts on kind of the athlete kind of finding a platform and their voice in this space in society which is so needed today. Catch twenty two, Fellas, It's a catch twenty two because a lot of professional athletes are professional athletes, but they are not professional speakers. Facts. A lot of professional athletes are professional athletes, but they are

not professional psychologists. A lot of professional athletes are professional athletes, but they are not professional teachers. But you have professional athletes trying to speak, teach, and analyze the mind. It's a catch twenty two because my co host says a lot people want to disrupt with no destination. My dog Marcellus widely, um, he's like, people want to disrupt without a destination. I'm like, you know what, there's some truth

to that. Like cats want to sit here and and disrupt the marketplace, but they don't necessarily know where they want to go. And it's unfortunate because I know their hearts in the right place. But it's kind of like action without intention is ill you feel me? Like cat, If Colin Kaepernick would have known how big everything was gonna be, he probably would have changed his steps a little bit differently. Now I fully understand what he was

trying to do. But if capitally would have known how big a deal everything was gonna be, he wouldn't have worn pig socks, he wouldn't have worn a castro shirt, like, he wouldn't have done all that stuff had he known. You track with me, like the Naomio sock that she probably would have navigated things a little bit differently had she known people real talk, like everybody would have. But the problem is we don't go to the end before we start at the beginning. You tracking with me, and

so I think it's a twenty two. I love that athletes have a platform. I love that they have a voice because athletes are so much more than an athlete. That's what they do, it's not who they are. But you just gotta be cautious because we live in a culture that can cancel quickly, and I think we're held to a different standard being athletes. Some people appreciate and respect that. Some people like, oh, you think you can

do anything because you were an athlete. Fact and then bra because you're an athlete, some people also think you're not capable of doing it, like, well, they're a professional athlete, so they don't get Yeah, but athletes, some of them got degrees and some of them study's been taking private classes and taking business courses and X, Y and Z, Like, I'm an athlete, but I was way b I got a whole master's degree only for the purpose of not

being a dumb jot. I don't necessarily use it. I brag about having it, but I don't necessarily use it. But I got it just to dismantle this dumb jock ideology because I don't want nobody to tell me, well, he's just an athlete, he's not allowed to speak on this. I'm like, no, no, no no, don't get a twisted now we've got the same degrees. Come on, I don't think I don't think nobody can be canceled to go back

on your point. Like when I the old George Forsitust, when I decided to jump out there for him, I was just leaving with my heart. I had no idea what I was doing, I swear, I swear I didn't, but the passion and me knowing that no other person that was murdered by the police who had a professional athlete of my stature to speak up on you know what I mean. So it's what you're saying is correct.

We sometimes we don't know, and it's just our heart leading in the direction that we don't know what we're going. And it's so good because if we lived in a society that would appreciate that, then I could co sign that the problem is bro It's kind of like I used to play mind sweeper growing up right, because I know how to play Solitaire was too complicated. I try to sound smart, but I'm really not all that smart. So your boy didn't know how to play solitaire, and

so I would play mind sweel. You're fulling funk out of me right now, full a lot of people. Nah. So so I try to play mind sweeper stack problem with mine sweeper. I didn't know the rules, so I would just click around until something blew up, right like most cats. That's what a lot of athletes do. They don't really know the rules of engagement, and so they played the game, but they just end up vocally clicking around until they step on a landline and then something

blows up. You feel me because so many of us lead and move with our heart. Everybody's hearts in the right place. Kabinet cart was in the right place. Uh naomial heart was in the right place. Everything you was doing with George Floyd heart was in the right place, everything just about most athletes do. Their heart is in the right place. But if you don't know the rules of engagement, it'll blow up on your quick race. In sports, so often sports has kind of left as our holy

joyful time bring everyone together. Slowly but surely politics have slipped into sports. Race is definitely in the sports now, it's everything. So talk to me about race and sports. It's not that people do not want politics and sports. People don't want their politics and sports. I don't know if they caught you heard that. Honestly, I say a lot of things twice because my dad was a pastor and so I just brought too many services, three services every Sunday, real talk. And so it's not that people

don't want politics and sports. They don't want politics that aren't there's in sports. Um, I'll start with racing sports. Race has always been in sports. Politics has always sports. Go back to Jesse Owens at the Olympics. Um had to get on a boat to Germany to go defeat them Nazis and get on a boat back just to

come back and be a second or third class citizen. Like, let's not get a twisted even you have the likes of you know, I think it was Brett Farve who said, you know, why do we have to have politics and sports? Remember it was a late nineties seventies. If I'm not mistaken that that's when if you win the Super Bowl you go to the White House. That's when it started. So the ultimate award for winning the ultimate achievement of the biggest sport in America is to go get political.

So how can we say that politics shouldn't be in sports? As for racing sports as deep And I don't know if I want to go there, because the fact of the matter is, and I've said this before, I think privately. I don't know if I said it publicly, but a lot of black people were still athletes and entertainers and in society a t I don't want to go. Okay,

we're gonna um in society, man. A lot of the juice was gotten out of the squeeze from black people historically in this country, right if you talk about slavery and everything that happened historically. But there's still a whole bunch of youths from an athletic and entertainment perspective, because there are things that Stack and Matt Barnes can do that nobody else can just by the nature of height,

size and athleticism. So we still need you all to go entertained because entertainment is something that can never be replaced. You feel me, And so racing. Sports is a whole complex conversation, but really the politics of the matter. People be lying like politics have always been in sports. Two thousand and nine, Breast Cancer Awareness Month, fields littered with pink, pink loves, plink wrist bands, pink towels. Nobody had an

issue with it because everybody can relate to cancer. But then court and is covered in Black Lives Matter of type black, huge problem. Why because everybody can't relate to police brutality. So it's not that politics haven't been in sports. It's not that causes haven't been in sports. It's just if I don't care about this cause I don't really want to see it. Because it was the same thing with Breast Cancer Awareness, the same exact thing. Everybody was

in paink why even a pink towels? But then when Black Lives Matter hits like, ah, you know what, I'm good on all that this ain't beneficial for us. Yeah, we were good there, So that's it. People just don't have the time to engage in this kind of conversation. Think that car Richardson band for spoken with marijuana on the days after her mom had passed, and like I said, knowing you're respecting you working with you at ESPN before you transfer the Fox one. I saw what you said.

You made a comment on something. I remember what it was, and I said, I said, come on, bro, you're better than that. And you had made a comment, and I think you were taking a lot of heat. And then Gina Jack's um do it all. She sent me something where you you know that forced you to kind of go back and do some homework in your research on this situation. Talk to us about first of all the comment you made and then going back and doing your homework and kind of your outlook on it. Now, man,

let's go there. Fellas literally came here for this. Welcome to all the smokes. Is a pleasure to be here, all right. First and foremost, let me preface with this. I was at let me trials, Let me press with this. Track is actually my first love, right like focused, don't do that, No no no, don't let me say national Junior Record old like Marcella's. But I love track because track is quantifiable. It's like why I love math two

plus two will always before. I don't care if Stack feels like it's five or if Matt feels like it's six two plus two is four point blank. We watched the NBA finals. How much was Jans helping? How much was Middleton helping? How much was Chris Paul helping? Track is simple. I ran faster than you, point blank got a debate nothing. So let me preface with this my first love. Let me preface with I was at the

Olympic trials. Let me preface with I keep up with not only what goes on in American track circuit, but the entire track circuit, Jamaican's, Nigerian's everything, because I love track first off. Also preface with condolences to Shaky. That's not overstep. Let's not overlook. This is a woman who lost her biological mother. Now to my knowledge, she has no relationship, had no relationship with her. I was raised by her grandmother. And Shaky said, but this is a

woman who lost her biological mother. Let's not stup over that for the sake of debate number one, number two on from Dallas, Texas. I know she went to Carter High School. I know that area. I went to church in the hood, the hood, the hood. I went to private school, okay, but I went to church in the hood.

So preface with that as well. So my my comment after she got she tested positive for marijuana, and so many people was jumping out saying they should legalize it, should be legalized, it should be legalized, it should be legalized. I'm like, okay, here's a kicker if it's only too much to get into. But nonetheless, it's only illegal in competition. You can smoke all the weeds you want as a professional track athlete, you just can't do it in competition.

So I came out and got heat because I was like, Okay, if you legalize weed in competition, it's cool for the hundred meter sprinter, but what about the javelin thrower, the disk is thrower, etcetera. That's what I took all the heat for because people were like, one, people aren't gonna compete high in two If you compete high, uh, nothing bad would happen, full, transparently, never smoked, never drunk a

day in my life. Right. That's why I'm engaging in this dialogue and been thrilled about because I'm like, we live different lives, but we respect each other fully completely. I respect you all boys to the utmost. So I got heat for that, mad heat for that stack acho, You're an idiot. You you're a square. You ain't never smoked. You clearly don't know nothing about nothing. I was like, Okay, here we go. Now I'm a square again. Now I'm

Carlton uh um. But peeple. So after that, I can't just from search because I was like, my coach used to tell me that that. My coach used to say, listen to the message and not the tone. F you, you f an idiot. You're such an invin idiot getting the B gap? Okay, he meant getting the B gap. Now there's a bunch of you know words around all that, but he meant getting the B gap. So I was like, what are all these people on i G talking about? Matt Dunne called me out? Matt my dog. I know

he wouldn't call me out for no reason. Jalio White, Steve Ercle don't called me out on the same post that Matt Done called me. I'm like dank Ercle calling me like coming to when Ericle clowning me? I clowned by. So I'm like, let me find the morsel of truth I get. I engaged with my followers, like y'all do I just don't really try to throw salt at him. I see some doctor hits me up in the d m s And all she says is in a comment, And all she says is doctor Benicia Williams out at her.

All she says is look up Henry an Slinger. But she was calm, and her reply is people like dog custom the stacks. I'm like, she's nice. Let me engage with her. Who's that? I look up this dude and Slinger and I'm gonna give you all a quick history lessons. I've everybody quick history lesson because even P. Diddy was commented, like, there's so much racism laced around weed. Here's my thing. People understand your history because it will benefit your argument.

When you get mad, don't raise your voice, raise the level of your Intellections you feel me, don't raise your voice, just raise your intellectual level. Bet uh and Slinger nineteen thirty. He founded the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. He was a white man. He founded the Federal Bureau of Narcotics and and and Slinger. He he said that Reefer makes darky's

think they're as good as white men. Close quote, and Slinker said they're roughly a hundred thousand marijuana smokers in America, Hispanics, Blacks, entertainers, and jazz artists. Marijuana causes white woman to seek sexual sexual relations with black man. Close quote known racist. This where he gets crazy, Stack and Sling created something called

the Gore Files. Created the Gore Files. He took two hundred police reports and the most insane police reports, a guy killed his entire family with an axe, and at the end of the police report he would add due to marijuana usage. So he took it from a state level to a national level by adding marijuana as the cost to two hundred of the most heinous crimes in America. Ninety seven, the Marijuana Tacks Act gets past because he reports one of his Gore files in front of Congress.

So now everybody's freaking out because people are dying, and it's clearly because of marijuana, at least the head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotic sets so in ninety seven. But here's the thing. I never smoked weed, and I know that, so everybody who has you don't need to know that too, because that is why marijuana shouldn't be out laud in America period. Now as it pertains full story. Go back to SHAKERI a rule exists. A rule exists, whether it's fair or not. You broke the rule, you

should be punished accordingly. I grew up in Texas. I drive through the back roads in Texas. If there is a light and I see the red light, camera and I choose to run the red light and I see it flash. I got in the middle. I've seen the red light and I ran the joint. Now I can debate why was the red light there. We can debate that to me all day. But the fact of the matter is the red light was there. Last thing I'm gonna say on this matter is this, and again, I

was there. The fastest man in the in the world, not in America. Noah Liles through two hundred meters, the fastest man in the world. We're reigning world champion. He said that the USA Olympic Trials make the World Championships feel like nothing, just saying Olympic trials are more difficult than the World champions I was in a warm up area with Noah before he had to rent run, nervous

as all could be. He was watching my phone. He was had my phone is hand dropped, nervous as All could be the fastest woman ever through two hundred meters, second to flow Joe Gabby Thomas. She trains in Austin. I know her well, graduated from Harvard fastest woman ever. She had to take off her whoop watch the week before the two d because she didn't want to see how bad her CNS was because she was so anxious. So everybody was anxious there. With that being said, everybody

had to deal with their anxiety differently. So there was a rule in place. No, weed doesn't make you faster, it don't make you stronger, doesn't make you have more quick twitch muscles. No. But the fact of the matter is it was a rule. She broke the rule. And the last thing is remember this in the NBA, this in the NFL, This is not the MLB. This is global stages in China, if you smoke. In Japan, if you smoke weed, punishable by five to ten years in prison.

So the tests in Japan have to match the tests in America because they compete against each other. Unlike America. We can just do rules for America, but the rules got to compete against each other, so you can't make something legal for one country. That's illegal in another country because the country has got to compete. And so this is a nuanced conversation. It has to be had with nuanced individuals. You can't just fire off a hundred characters to make sense of it all. But that's my stance.

Racism is why marijuana was ever made illegal in the first place. Marijuana should not be illegal. Shakey did break a rule. Shakey should be punished accordingly for the rules

she broke. All of those things can be true. I agree, and and and and my standpoints stance on it was is obviously, I think it's no secret that there's a lot of outdated rules, not only into sports but society by people that all look alike, dress alike, and think alike, you know what I mean, there's no outside the box thinking.

So I'm hoping that unfortunately Kaepernick was a sacrificial land for police brutality, and we're heading in the right direction for that, we you know, hopefully, we kind of feel like we're taking steps in the right direction. She Carri is probably gonna be the sacrificial land for this. Luckily she's young enough to still be able to compete. But I think it's gonna garner enough attention to possibly change outdated rules and policy. And to me, it's not only

in sports, you know. I think it's in the workplace and all around you know what I mean, because I, like I said, there's an old stigma and CANNABISI is ridiculous because all the all the everything you need to know, all the studies are at the palm of your hand that you can't just go by outdated thesis and principle that applied back in the thirties all the way to Nancy Reagan in the eighties to two thousand and twenty one, where rat but fellas full transparency. That's why I was

looking forward to rap with y'all. I'm the dude to believe the stigma if that if you told if you tell me something is illegal since birth, it has to be bad. It's illegal. Common sense says something that's illegal is bad. And so I'm told my whole life marijuana is legal. Marijuana is legal marijuana, So Shirley, it's bad. Until I go talk to a doctor who literally sent me one of her lectures. I meet her on on Instagram. She's like, Hey, read one of these lectures, and I'm like, oh, snap.

You know the difference between th A, C, C, B, D all that so Matt to your point, education, we just saw it could benefit from it. Across the board. A lot of stuff is just a conversation too, h but uh, a respectful respect. Jack always says, you we can disagree but still respect each other. And you can't

have a conversation with people that's with minimal understanding. You've gotta be able to come into the conversation willing to accept the perspectives, you know what I mean, not just coming into just to talk just so people can hear you so you can respond, you know what I mean. That's and that's that's what happens a lot these days. People just want to respond. They don't listen to you. Big facts. Upbringing in Dallas, Texas. Talked to us about that man Texas boy. Look, it's a couple of things.

Number One, you got to understand, see Stack, I grew up in Texas, but my parents grew up in Nigeria in hands, so Nigeria in their hand through Nigeria by minor um so. Now I grew up in Dallas, but I grew up Nigerian culture because my parents came straight from Nigeria to American nineteen eighties Brussels. Like I'm eating Nigerian food, listening to Nigerian music. My dad was a missionary, came over here as that, and so your boy was just trying to figure life out, you know what I'm saying.

Like in the and in my house, my parents would call me Cheta do my Nigerian name. But then I go to school and in the hood when I was at in my public school first and then I'm a man, you chow, I go to private school with majority white people. Now manny, So I'm over here like yo, what like, I'm out here? Like what's really good? Grew up the youngest of four in my upbringing. It really just, brother, the most strictest of upbringings ever panned out for your boy.

You know, I didn't really have a ton of crazy life experiences. It was just straight and narrow. People say like, okay, what time is your curfew? Said curfew? Huh, No curfew in this house. Nothing this at your households ain't no curfew. Brother, You ain't going nowhere, no curfew. You ain't leaving the house. Tap what you need curfew for? If you hear if you home studying because like in in in Nigerian households, you must be a doctor, you must be a lawyer,

you must be an engineer like doctor, lawyer, engineer. That's it. To all of a sudden, we're playing ball and my parents like, what's what's this football thing? Like, what's what's this? We ended up being good My brother and I and the brother brother just finished year nine. He just signed a contract with the four letters. We don't say them over at Fox. We just say the four letters. You know what I'm saying, But y'all know who they are. Not. My brother sign contract with ESPN. So he's he's doing

this thing, making this transition. M m m. So now even though you're you're the little brother, you got the step up in this next space as he leaned on you for anything. I played football before him too, and he ends up being better than that plays nine years. I'm in TV before him. If he ends up better than me, that I'll be sick. Now he's the thing. I'm out here running fast. You think, y'all, TV is my thing? Like you know, when you know you're good

at something like y'all played fourteen years. Y'all both one chips like y'all knew y'all step on the court came nobody see you. Bro. We were talking to Stack on the show the other day and we were talking about the late great Kobe Bryant and Stack was like, hey, McDonald's all American game, though, I like, you know what I'm saying, like because when we talk like, y'all know, that's y'all's thing. Hoops was y'all's thing. Now transition into this space, it's y'all s thing, bro, and I get

in front of a camera, Yeah that's the thing. Yeah. I remember we were both in New York for Get Up and that was the first time I really met you. I knew of you, but I met you and I just saw your preparation, how you're on the iPad house Like I was just like this, My motherfucker's nice over here with it. And the next thing I know, he's getting hired over his Fox Sports. I'm like, that's what's up. I mean, he was if anybody was ready, he was ready for it. That's it. It's all about knowing what

you I feel like life. Life is all about knowing what you're good at and knowing what you're bad at and lean into what you good? I suck at golf. Who never, I've never played golf day in my life. Well I tried it. Uh, those are like fun golfing places, top golf. Never really played golf, stuck at it. But I'm really good at TV man and now I'm just like I'll lean into it. What was your introduction to sports?

Obviously coming from a Nigerian background that like you said, you gave your your three goals or laid out before you you can walk. So what was your introduction to sports? Walter Payton was probably my introduction of sports. Now, he played before I was even born. But I just remember watching football highlights. So I taught myself how to play football. Um, I watched YouTube videos. I watched YouTube videos of Derrick Johnson, great Texas linebacker played for the Chiefs, watch YouTube videos

of Ray Lewis. Just taught myself. I taught myself a lot of things, saw myself how to play the piano, like I just I'll just watch and just okay, he stepped here, he stepped here, he tackled like this. Okay, go out there and do it. I'm just a master duplicator. I'm not really good at a lot. I can just imitate a lot, so I can listen to John Legend. Can you regurgitate that sound? Okay? Get close enough? Great um and so like my introduction was in eight years old,

in the fourth grade. I was watching highlights. I was like, yeah, I want to try to play this. Play football, played basketball, through discus and track. I was best at football, and I just did the numbers. I don't know how y'all made it to the league Brest hard Man the basketball numbers. I don't know a fifteen men on the roster. I'm like, it's crazy football. At least you do the math. You got about a thousand casts in the league. Cool basketball, but that's it. So I just started doing the math.

Plus I was like, I'm six to jump shot. It's kind of like Janice's except six eleven. Yeah. I mean we're both Nigerian. But my limitations, you know, like I didn't get that he got that Nigerian. Plus that food in Greece. I just got the not the rice and stew. I guess the goat meat just didn't do it. I had How did you parents support once they kind of figured out you and your brother can actually play sport us with trepidation hesitancy, like real talk. Give me the

definition of that which one trepidation. I've never heard that before in my life. Come on with it every now and then. I use an s a T word, Bro, I took you like twenty times, and I don't think that was my name. Trepidation, just like with scared with like with timidly hesitation. Because we weren't supposed to play sports. My dad is five nine, my mom is five seven, I'm six. Two of my brothers six three, So all of a sudden they were just like, Okay, you're good

at something. And Nigerians are prideful, prideful, prideful people, and so we're like, oh, y'all getting a lot of attention now we we true story My brother got his first scholarship off for USC because he's we sneak into an invite only USC football camp from Texas. Didn't realize it was invite only. We show up. My brother's sixth three runs up four six forty in front of Pete Carroll scholarship of fron Spot. When USC offers and you from Texas, Texas is like, wait, we can't let this guy go

out of state. They offered my brother and then they offered me after that. But like I went to bro and all boys school. We wore uniform, gray slacks, white button downs, probably number one private school in Texas. So like super nerds. A kid at my school one the National Spelling B like a kid about the grade above me. When the National Spelling b stack, a kid in my grade perfect on the S A T and a C tect perfect one of kid nasal. So Bro, I felt like an idiot, Like I was dumb dumb in high school.

I was a dumb jot. Then I got to college and I was a genius. And so it was just a man. I just I fit who people tell me I am. That's what I was back then. You know what I'm saying. So it was mad. It was trying to navigate who you were. Identity facts. What was your high school experience like in Texas? Obviously that's known for some of the best high school football around. What was that experience like those Friday night games? Nothing like it

in Texas. Man, it's different. It's different life. It's life like even at private school is different. Um, it's everything coming on Friday every lebra It's everything like it really is an obsession. And even like hoops too to a degree. Like I remember we played a game at Maverick Stadium and Duncanville was Duncanville, a huge basketball school was playing UM some other school and Brandon Jennings went on the squad. I think Brandon Jennings number ten overall picked to the

Bucks back in the gap. He went to China for a year and then play in the NBA. They was playing in Dallas and we filled up, they filled up the American Airline Center. It's a high school squad and so like it's just it's different. Man, in sports town, you live and breath for breathe for state championships. Man, you know what I'm saying, It's wild. What was it like to be a three sport varsity athlete? A you're talking to me or him? Definitely him, because I was too.

Were you three football? Basketball? Baseball? Basketball? This is my first time here in the baseball ship? I know, did you play? Basically a couple of people in here that I knew. I knew you was you know, centerfield basketball? Yeah, just travel basketball picked up so I stopped playing, so not I know what I call you plage. Bro, what I called you guys, you was calling it baseball to know and now it's not racial. Understand I understood it's not racial America. Don't find him. Uh nah, bro, it

was cool. Like in all honesty, sports or what keep me going. You know, sports are just that's what energizes me. I was I was good enough at basketball. I wasn't great. I was really good at track and discus. I was really it's a technical thing. I was really good at track. Um, but football I was so raw. I knew I could be good and I was. I was never the biggest, never the smartest, but I was like, I'm either gonna be the biggest, the fastest, excuse me, or I'll be

the smartest. And I was never the biggest or the fastest. But I was like, Okay, people don't realize and y'all get this. Man, sports you gotta be smart. It's high. Yeah, Like people don't. You have about ninety plays on a football field during the game, you take about thirty of the men and adjustments based on a receiver motioning and moving, especially as a middle linebacker, you have to be brilliant. Like people don't get it. People don't respect athletes intellectual

and intellectually enough, you gotta be brilliant. Um. So that was that was the experience man playing football in Texas. Was there any chance that you would go somewhere else for college brought? Not a chance? Bro never never never. Texas we were nice. But remember we have Vince Young was oh five, I went to Texas and oh eight, So there was no no, I mean you go you you play football in Texas? To go to Texas? You know what I'm saying, Like you, you don't even fix

your lips to think about going. And I'm not even one of those like crazy die hard alums. I'm just like Texas Texas. There was a standard talk to us about that experience actually being a long home though first years one crazy we was twenty four and one. The first two years, I didn't lose a game. Quarterback two time Himan finalists, winning is college football quarterback when he retired.

When he left college, we went, We went, and we lost one game my first year, and then we ran the table my second year till we got to the national championship and lost Obama. Funny enough, we were Obama's beginning of their streak gonna beat us in the national Championship, mark Ingram Julio Jones and they go on to win seven of the last god knows how many. But m bro, when you're winning at Texas, I mean, don't get me started. Ain't nothing like nothing. So what you talk to me about?

This though on some other ship, being in such a strict household and then kind of gaining some sort of freedom and you're a young man in Texas now you're on a winning football team. What's that like to you? Because you were so confined in one space and now you're somewhat free and you're on top of the world. Man, that's good. Bro. They say when you go to college, at least when you go to Austin six, it's gonna

make or break you. You know what I'm saying, Like when you now you're away from home, it's either gonna make or break you. Um, I don't think it broke me. You know, it was cool being away from home. The thing about it, though, I have my big brother there. He's one year older than me, and so I think he made all the mistakes for me, and he knew just how far I could go before reeling me back in um and The big thing was just like don't

make the pivotal mistake. You know, have fun, live your best life, but keep your grades up, don't get suspended, don't do nothing wild, and like, for really, if if you're Nigerian, it's like, don't embarrass your last name. Right, there's the saying you'll probably heard with Nigerian's not John know that caddy last, Nigiohn No, that caddy last. Nigerians don't carry last, like you can't finish the last and all that is and kind of Nigerian culture is like

you gotta be the best. And so I didn't really have that luxury of just doing whatever because it's like you gotta be the best at whatever you do. Plus, my freaking brother was there. He was a genius. He was an academic All American, he was an athletic All American playing Basketball's worst thing ever happening to me. Every time I would get the ball and dribble, I would just hear shad oh, shad oh, because they're like you're living in your brother's shadow. So I was like, oh god, um,

so yeah, that was that was college. Man, what's the most memorable moment on the field. That's a question. That's a question. Ye, that's a question. UM, my senior year at Missouri. This is how I ended up a third team All American senior at Missouri. UM, the field was terrible. Bro our captain running back towards M C L A C L pcl earlier in the game, star linebacker next to me, Keenan Robinson. He got drafted to Washington in the fourth round. He broke his thumb, and he broke

his thumb, but it broke out of the glove. Like the thumb was no longer in the glove. And that's my dog, Like Keenan was my dog. I was in his wedding all that. So Star linebacker Tears was holding up Keenan's thumb is out of his glove. He runs off the field, darning the play. He's like, ref, ref, my thumb, my thumb. He runs off the field during the play. I sit there. The ref doesn't stop the game. Um, they throw a now screen. I run over to the

now screen. I forced the fumble. I see my team recovery. I don't even wait for the ref to singal recovery, and I just run off to the sideline to check on my dog. That was the most memorable. Like he got hurt, ref didn't stop to play. They throw a bubble, I forced a fumble, don't even care about the ball. I see my other little young bro recovered and I just from like, hey, what happened to keenan? Um? That was that was wild? Yeah, that was the most valuable

takeaway from your four years as a long horn. Most valuable takeaway. Um, you have to be consistently good to be great. Mm hmm. You gotta be consistently good to be Everybody wants to be great, but what's being great? Looked like? Being great looks like being consistently good. You turn on it. You turn on a tube every day, and if you watch, speak for yourself like, oh he's good. The next day, Oh he's good. It's kind of good, the next it's kind of good. All of the stuff.

It's like, you know what, because might be great. You know what I'm saying, Like, you gotta be consistently good to be great. Stack. When I was playing ball, I knew the normal plays would come to me, but I would try to find one to two highlight plays a game, right if they line up in a certain offset formation. I know exactly what they're gonna do. I'm gonna make the big playing tax for loss sacks something like that. Um. And now I take the same thing on TV every block,

every conversation. I know it's gonna be I but you gotta find the one quotable sound bite that makes somebody like you said stop twice and say, hey, y'all, make sure go run that back. Um. You gotta be consistently good to be great. You said something off off camera now that since you talked about, you know, kind of finding your magic um in this space now that I thought was really interesting because you know, although you know, our job is to talk sports, for the most part,

not everyone is interested in sports. So you try to find, well exploit I don't want to I'm gonna take your words from you, but explain that. Yeah, man, not everybody cares about sports, but everybody cares about life. And so I really just use sports as a man ask arraid to get to the root of life because everybody wants to talk life. Everybody had an opinion about Shaky Richardson.

Nobody knew Shaky Richardson was before three weeks ago. I did because I watched sports and I walk track, watch track. But now everybody ride for Shaky. I'm like, what college she go to y'all since y'all ride for us so hard. But everybody cares about life because the marijuana issue is a life issue. Naomio saka. Not everybody knows who Naomi is. But everybody has mental health issues or has somebody who has one, and we all do a degree do right,

like we all can work on our mental health. So sports to me is just a it's an avenue to get to life because life is a vehicle there it is. It's a vehicle to get to life. Everybody cares about life. Not everybody cares about your favorite team. You know like that? I like that. So drafted sixth rail and two thousand twelve. And obviously I caught what you said earlier in the interview. It was calculated. You had kind of taken your calculations

and understand who you were as a football player. You have that for your run three years, four years run um and was ready for what was next. But in that for your run, what stood out to you the most? Bro? When I got traded, Because when you got traded, you you just think that's a video game. You know what I'm saying, like, oh, you trade people on video game, not a big deal. I'm in Cleveland my first year.

They drafted me and I get the athletic trainer comes in and it gives me like the handshake pad on the bag. I'm like, hell like that. It's been nice. Know when you y'all know that I wasn't the good old. I had to the to the general manager had coaches office, and they're like, hey, I just want to notify you you've been traded to the Philadelphia Eagles. I'm trying to hide my JUBI League because I'm like, get me the hell out of Cleveland, Like, we've got to go to Philly.

They got Lashawn McCoy out there, Mike Vick out there like some real stars. UM. Craziest thing though, like your flights in three hours? I left bro when you got traded, y'all. I don't know if y'a was traded when you got traded flights in three hours. I went to Philly. I didn't go back to Cleveland for five years. Somebody packed up my stuff, they moved it. I get to Philly, I stay in a hotel and it's it's like, you're just good you're just packaged good. So that was probably

the craziest and most memorable thing of the four years. Man, it was a wild was did you know that sports media stepping into this space was something you wanted to do or to just kind of falling your lap and fell in my lap? Man, I do what I'm good at. I told people, I'm like, if I was great at math, i'd be an accountant. You feel me Like, if I was very gracious, i might be a secretary. But I'm a good communicator. Um, And I study it and I work at it, and I'm just good at putting words together.

It kind of fell in my lap or even even uncomfortable conversations like y'all realize people move to l a just to creative video and hopes that it goes viral and hopes it Oprah calls them and hopes that they get nominated for an Emmy and hopes that they win. People sell their whole lives and dreams to do that.

And I stumbled into it, you know what I'm saying, Like I tripped and fell into it, and so I just do what I'm good at, And like I said, I'm bad at a lot like don't get it twisted and bad at a lot um, but I know what I'm good at and I leaned into that, tripped and fell into a few things and much our support bills are crazy now it's sick. What was it like joining the Longhoun Network as analysts? It was cool. I had

to transition, you know what I'm saying. I wanted to get to you know, the highest of heights and whatnot. And I knew at the end of the day sports since in my end all be all and I think y'all know that, Like y'all wrapped with me enough on camera off camera to know that. But Longhoun Network was a vehicle to be great. Like everybody wants to have success without the process. Everybody does everybody. It's crazy how

many people just want to have success without the process. Um, But that for me was the process refining your skills. And now when you're talking in front of millions, I've been doing this so like I'm humbled because I was giving that opportunity and stack if not for that opportunity, I'm trying to figure out my life after I retire. So it was dope. So you had, you know, pits us for ESPN Dallas boys, that the network we talked about June. Um, you're not sure leaving the ESPN to

join Fox? How did that happen? Man? How did that happen? Honestly, honestly, here, if I'll be real and I'll be real solid smoke, you'll get the real. Um. I was told my name is not big enough? What I was told in the ESPN circles? Yeah, by by bye, I was told your name is not big enough. I want I wanted to

move from where I was. I wanted to move to higher to higher programming, and UM, I talked to an exact there and they were like, essentially, people watched this certain show for big names, and your name is not big enough. And then five months later my name was like the biggest in sports. Um, but that's neither here nor there. So bro, I'm so petty too, Um the pettiest moment, So I know when the pettiest. Um. Now,

mind you all. Like the people that worked at ESPN were great, good to me, like they were good to your boy, and a honestly, the person who told me my name is not big enough, I low key respect them because they were just transparent. They were like Hey, it's no eight. It's just you're not a gold jacket guy, and we need gold jacket guys more than anything. So I was like, it's all love. But when I left,

I left with a rap video thanking everybody at ESPN. UM, and I did it in this like high quality studio production and it was like a fifty second video changing out fists and it was just like that's fire. Got a million views and I had no followers. Um, and so like I left wrapping thinking them because I had to leave with class. Um. And yeah, ESPN was good to me, man, and it gave me my start. Um,

but that's really Foxes dough. Though. I got a billboard with a billboard and I actually look good on It's crazy. I don't know how it happens. Stumbled into a good looking photo shop. Um, but I got a billboard like foxes dope. Speak for yourself. What's that been? Like? It's challenging because that be on the joint. He knows like I'll be up there arguing with Marcellus every day. Um, enjoyed. It's been cool. Marcellis my my big bro, my co host. Um,

he's older than me. The hardest part to Speak for yourself is trying to keep up with the movie references because I was born in ninety and marceli is. First off, he was quoting like raw and delirious Eddie Murphy never saw. I had to watch him in the middle of in the middle of the season because he's quoting Eddie Murphy. I was like, I know Eddie Murphy from like the Nutty Professor, like Comedian den still like quote all these old school songs I never heard of. But Speak is dope,

especially when we bring on Cats like Stack. The biggest thing, the biggest compliments Stack pays and Cats pay is you'll make me laugh doing the show because you can go on other shows and it's buttoned up and it's the stiffest. But like, when you come on Speak, you're gonna talk to one of the guys, just like you're back in

the locker room. We don't get the real out of you, like I don't want to hear like well, you know, when I watched Steph Curry play, it's just very enlightening because you know he's just such a no no, no, no no no. When you come on the show, I want the real Stack that the world see, just without the curse words. We can pay the bills, but outside you that much. No more it though I heard him cuss in a minute. To be honest, i've you put the weed down in the cust wards down said you change man.

Better you than me. Somebody had to do it. Um. For those who don't know, tell us, obviously, you told us how uncomfortable conversation with the black man came about. But tell us what the show is man, Uncomfortable conversation with a black man. It is just a the biggest disconnect in our society, I think, between black and non black people or white people communication. Bro. So let's let's go back to high school. Matt. Let's go back to

high school. Stack. Remember when you have to take a foreign language, your Spanish teacher, they would tell you, if you want to be fluent in the language, you have to immerse yourself in the culture. See real talk. My name is Manuelito Um in Spanish class a little bit, but go ahead. I took my years. You're not gonna play me anyway. But I was immersed in white culture in high school. I was immersed in black culture in college and in later on in high school and in

the league. So I realized there's a communication barrier, So all uncomfortable conversations is what the black men is. I'm going to answer the questions that white people are either too scared to ask A or B don't have a black friend to ask too. So the first episode, I answered why can black people say the N word but white people can't? Why are black people rioting? What is white privilege? But what about black on black crime in Chicago?

Because I know white people have those questions generally speaking, because I was in those white spaces. But they're not gonna go ask Stack, Hey man, how come y'all can say? Then where but we can't. They're gonna do that if they know Stack at all. They're not gonna go ask Matt. Okay, but why are your rioting? So it's like, you know what,

let me preemptively answer those questions. Every episode after that touches a different issue inter racially, Like I talked to a couple white man, black woman, black man, white woman, same episode, because they're different racial stereotypes. You see a black and with a white woman, you know, it's it's a little more socially acceptable than if you see a woman with a white man. You see a black woman with a white man. You kind of like, you know what I'm saying. So I just tried to touch to

talk to a commissioner of the NFL about Colin Kaepernick. Like, here's the other thing, man, and this is my approach. But everybody has different approaches for everything. I would rather be like a covert operative. Let me change something from the inside out, like a CIA agent. You feel me go to a foreign country, mix and mingo and then change things. I want an apology to Kaepernick. You can tweet it all day, Probably best you sit down with

the commissioner of the NFL. That's why people knocked my approach because they get mad at me for like being too nice to white people and being too friendly. I'm like, if you want to change something, you gotta speak to minds, you gotta speak to hearts. You know what I'm saying. Yes, it's crazy because similar me being by racial but when I first grew up, I was around nothing but black Mexican Asian, and when I moved to Sacramento, although I'm half Italian, i was the first time I was ever

around white kids. And my parents always had the wherewith all to put me in the white schools, and I hated it, but I didn't understand it until I got older. And now I can comfortably move in cold conversations in

several different rooms because of that. That's the secret. That's until again, now having a conversation with black people about things, until you know, we continue to evolve as a society where our black brothers and sisters are really in hiring and firing power and positions in society kind of incubated in and of itself. You better learn how to navigate

and communicate with everybody. You better learn it. Like the secret, Matt is, like you said, you can be in navigating these spaces and you can go navigating these other spaces. That's the secret. Like the biggest thing I got from private school wasn't my education. It was being able to be around billionaire white people and not feel lesser than everybody accountable. M HM said, what's it like being cool

with Oprah? Your's wild? And the crazy thing is like, whenever I talked to Oprah, she'd just be trying to talk. I called Oprah one day before talking to the commissioner of the NFL, and I'm sitting in my house that she actually answered the first time he called to I've missed more of Oprah's calls then she's missed of mine. It's crazy, but she just we talked for like forty seven minutes, and she'll just start talking and just start going.

And I don't like taking people's times, especially important people, because I know how valuable my time is. So like when I'm talking to Oprah, I'll just let her go and I'm like, I'll be trying to get off the phone, but she'll just have another gem for me. When I first met her, I emailed and I said, Hey, what do you want me to call you, your honor, your majesty, oh Oprah, And she's like, call me Oprah. Because if you don't know what to call somebody, you don't really

know him, you know what I'm saying. Um, Like if people come up to you and call you like Mr Jackson, you know what I'm saying. So that's um, it's crazy, bro. Also, like Oprah is the greatest that ever did it like Oprah's and Michael Jordan's you know what I mean. Like and so black woman who's a billionaire like and everything and everyone Oprah touches turns to gold, you know, what I mean, whether Rachel Ray rather Dr Phil, whether doctor Ross to a degree like, see, I'm not gonna play

with you. I'm you're not gonna get me in trouble. Okay, you're not gonna mess up my coins. Um So, now Oprah's incredible. I don't blow her up often, but when I when I need her, all reach out. And what's one gym you don't mind sharing with us? That she said that kind of really opened your eyes several. The only question you should ask everyone first? What is your intention? When I sat in this chair, the really the first thing y'all should have asked. Let Oprah tell you is

a man, what's your intention for this conversation? Because when you know somebody's intention, you can help guide the conversation. When I sat down the host of Bachelor after the final rows, I said, Hey, what's your intention? I talked to the first black Bachelor, but four went out there, Hey what's your intention? I need to know your intention. The other thing that's just interesting and also probably help

you all some time down the line. Oprah was telling me this person came on her show trying to sell a book, and because they were trying to sell this book, every ten seconds, they would bring up the book. Yeah, Oprah, thanks for asking me about life, but I'm writing this book. Yeah no, Oprah, I really think Political Landscape is great, but my book. So after that, she was like every guest that would come on trying to sell something. He said, I'll sell the book. You don't worry about I have

the book. You don't worry about selling the book. I will do that. Let's have a conversation, um the other thing man. In all honesty, I people just tell me, Okay, here's I'll tell you my only my greatest Oprah story. After I did my app open and I did U some show together, the Oprah conversation made uncomfortable conversation for Apple TV. She calls me as soon as it's done. It's an hour long conversation. I missed the phone call. How do we miss oph his call? She calls me again.

I pick up. She says, you have the thing to my friend, you have the thing, and coming from someone who had the thing and has the thing, you my friend, you you have the thing. And I was like, yo as wild, but I gotta figure out what the thing is. Well, I don't know whether what does somebody tell me, what is the thing? Um? And she said, you have the ability to tell people about themselves, but they want to hear more as you do it. And I think that was kind of Oprah's trick. Oprah had an ability to

make everyone just kind of feel safe and comfortable. Now, I still got to sharpen my sword, sharpen my tools when I when I did The Bachelor, I ran out of tools during a moment, so I still got to refine those with like Oprah's just she's a genius? Is a genius? Was it a perfect time for a Black Bachelor? This leads to another conversation that I don't know if we'll have, but realistically, remember they had the Black Bachelor, probably in response to society. It's called spadeus bade. Matt

James has never this conversation offline. We can have it online we have wherever um, Matt James hadn't been associated with the franchise the first Black Bachelor, So how you have the first lead of a show ever that hasn't been associated with the franchise. But I think it was probably just like a rash decision. Understandably, so a lot of people made rash decisions in response to the murder

of George Floyd. But I don't think it was fully thought through, and obviously we saw what happened as a result. Favorite NBA teams are players to watch. Man, Come on, man, don't get him start. I can answer that for which one Greek freak? Okay? First off, he's not Greek. That's that's what they call us. What they call him because they can't say his last name Kubo Okay, so jest is truly birth certificate Nigeria. He moves to Greece, they

have change his name to Greek. Defyatt. Now, we don't like pronouncing long last names, as we've noticed on are recently, and as a result, as a result, we just call him the Greek freak. Uh nah, honestly Lebron James Steph Curry. But but bump all that. I love excellence. I love watching excellence. Anybody who's excellented anything. One of the dopest

concerts everyone to two of them. A Taylor Swift concert, Wild bro Let Me Tell You and Kevin Hart Comedy and Show Let me tell you why I walk into the Taylor Swift Concert'm not even a Taylor Swift fan, but I'm just like, how the hell does the whole world love this woman? Who's I mean, I'm not gonna speak on her attraction level, but who's just like, seems very normal, sings very normal. How the heck does everybody love her? I gotta find out that I'm trying to

figure out her secret. I walk in. They hand everybody wristband. She's in, uh Philadelphia Stadium because she grew up in reading Pennsylvania. Right out the p a. They hand everybody a wristband as soon as she she's doing her whole set. As soon as she starts singing bad Blood, the song with Kendrick Lamar, whole stadium lights up red and white because the wrist bands were coordinated to the set. So now when I go on there, if I know it's going to be a serious show, my outfit is coordinated

to my mantra, my persona. If I know it's gonna be a loose show, I'll go on with glasses and a vest and a tie not tied all the way up. Because everything has to communicate together. So I didn't go to a Taylor Swift concert just to listen to Taylor Swift. But what can I learn from her because she's clearly she's clearly excellent. Kevin Hart, people say he's not funny anymore. You know, you can have that conversation, but he's clearly excellent. So what can I learn from somebody excellent? So as

it pretends to basketball? Lebron because he's excellent, Steph, because he's excellent. I just love watching excellence. Thoughts on this playoffs, man, look bro First and foremost, this year was and this year was affected drastically because of last year because the season was so short. Right, Never in NBA history have four teams who went to the finals a year before returned and been this slow of a seed when the four teams who go to the finals returned the next year,

on average, Matt, they are a two seed. Really the two point seven, so we can round down to a three seed. This year, on average they were a sixth seed. It's not coincidence. Cast is tired. The cast is hurt. You know what I'm saying. When you see Kauai get hurt off a minimal contact injury, when you see uh Harden with his hamstrings again, when you see Jamal Murray off a no contact injury, cast is hurt. And so I like, I just told you I like watching excellence.

I want to see everybody at their best. We didn't get to see that this year. You know what I'm saying, Like, are the two teams that are in the NBA Finals the best two teams? Or were they just the healthiest two teams? You feel me because I want to see the best, no indictment on them. Shout out to the sun Set out to the Bucks. But like, did we really get to see the best this year? I'm not convinced the Milwaukee was that close from having their start injury.

But he just built different. Fact, y'all know that Cody last Yeah, I told you now, he's just be He just build different. But it's not to the people that can have a hyperstated k need come back. Y. No, Look, y'all don't remember an X men. They went to Nigeria and they went and found and to Mantium. Are you saying, oh my god, how do you think he came back in the weeks? That hey thing came back in a week. They then came back in a week and he got

hurt in Atlanta. Atlanta has direct flights on Delta straight to Lego, straight to Legos direct. I take it every summer. They got direct flights from Atlanta to Legos. We didn't hear from you, honest for a day. Where do you think he went? So? Why why did John's play on the Nigerian team? He probably won't branding. He probably where Where did he play in the past though, Greece and something like that. You know, but he's confused, Hey six, He's why people say I'm young. He's going he's confused.

You know, he's trying to figure out his life. You know, they called him the Greek free Like when people called me Manny, I was confused, like, man, that's not really my name. But as I got later in life and matured, I understood, you know who I really an. That's where your honest is. He's trying to figure out who he really is. He'll come back home. I'm funny, come back home because blaite. People used to call me Maddie. I'm like maddie because all right, that's funny. He said that

ship All right, quick hitters man. First thing to come to mind, Let us know, best football player you ever played against? What Sean McCoy he jump at you? He called him cut on a dime for a reason. Shawn McCoy, he was scary, went crazy. He did you bad. I would guess. I'm not I thotic enough to keep up, so I would guess. But think about Shady. Remember I told you I was smart. If Shady went up and gave you an outside move first, he was gonna go outside.

He comes up and he squares you up. He's going inside. So I would just study the hell out of Shady and I would guess every time and got it and got it. He said I could cover him best, but I was just guessing. I just found out to tell and she did nice. Five favorite artists Musical John Legend, I'm a gospel cat, so Kirk Franklin, Um, Little Wayne, Um, Kanye Prime, pre you know, Early Kane, early Kanyem, early Kanye. And lastly, because I'm an R and B guy, I'm

a true lover at heart. I'm muna say uh can boys the men count? Yeah? Top five most uh most important sports moments to you? Top five most important sports moments. Um, okay, let's start historically. Let's go Jackie Robinson. Let's get that out the way. You know what I'm saying, Like, what that meant? For the Game of Baseball, integration of the Game of Baseball. Um, let's go with the cast on one. Let's go with Lebron James coming back from down three one. Yeah,

let's go there. Um Okay, see, now I feel bad. A lot of people use that. Don't like to be like a lot of people. Now I gotta go obscure. Now you just challenge me. Um, Let's go with um greatest you said sports moments. Let's go with the thrilling Manila. Let's go with thrilling Manilla like that joint like, let's go with thrilling Manilla. Um, let's go with Tom Brady getting drafted to the Patriots. Right. If he doesn't get drafted there, maybe he never becomes Tom Brady, never gets

hurt or blessed on, never gets hurt. And let's go with Since we're talking about greatest, let's go with the

Bulls hiring Phil Jackson, because I think the Bulls. If the Bulls don't hire Phil Jackson, Jordan is still a great but Jordan's not Jordan's But like realizing that after Phil Jackson showed up, Jordan never sniffed his points for a game average, you'll realize that right like game to slow him, that slow his touches down thirty seven points per game his third year in the league, thirty five

points per game. A year after that at four. Clearly Jordan's got better, but he never touched that many points per game again. He just touched a whole bunch of championship. I always ask people what happened? What happened if Phil never went with Shack and Kobe bro what would have had? Okay, I got this view with y'all, COVID shock, and Jordan was gonna beat in regardless of the fucking Pepe Herman was on the sideline. No, we're not talking about You

don't get the numbers, get their numbers. Do they get championships? The numbers are, Yeah, they're gonna get there. They don't get their numbers, of course, but I don't know if they get chips plural? What else is interesting? If Jordan don't go play baseball, y'all think he wins a straight I think so much luck goes into that kind of ship, health, getting along chemist. There's a lot that goes into Jordan. I don't doubt that it's only one Jordans. I don't

doubt that what he could do. But I'm saying a lot goes into You know what else is why you gotta have left to win the championship by geting that some somewhere who don't get enough creditor is phil because you win three Jordan leaves, you win three, Spurs win one, then you win three again. Like we don't talk about that on any show. Enough feels gotta come feel, you gotta come smoke a joint with us. I know you've seen some of this ship. Jennie probably told you to

come mess with us, So you gotta come mess with us. Man. Yeah, I don't want to know why you don't want to shake my hand after we beat y'all scars. Yeah, I'm just saying, I just want to know what message you'll put on the billboard for the world to see. You're asking a man who lives by quotes to give you one, and a man that's got a billboard right now cheesing one message. Um, the reason most people fail is because they give up what they want most for what they

want now. The reason most people fail is because they give up what they want most for what they want now. If that was one message, it would probably be that like people don't fail because they're not talented or skilled or whatever. It's like you give up what you want most for what you want now. I think the other thing is, and this is Einstein quote, but everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it too will live its

whole life believing it's an idiot. M hm. My mama told me, youngster, nothing beas of failure but to try and lick your lips. This is all script. But like I said, I just I know why I'm doing this podcast, while I'm doing ESPN, while I'm doing complex for my ultimate goal is what do you do all this stuff you're doing down? What's your ultimate goal in this space? I don't believe in goals. I believe in objective without limitations. Okay, well where are you going from this? Uh? The thing?

The thing? If you set a goal, it best to reach the goal and it worst. You'll ruin your self esteem and self africacy if you don't reach the goal. My senior year, I put a piece of paper above my bed. I looked at it every day before I went to sleep, and every morning when I woke up because I wanted to go pro. My junior year sheet of paper from the NFL that says you will not

be drafted in the first three rounds. So I was like, like, hell, I won't put that sheet of paper up there after my in your year, your boy gonna go drafted first three rounds. I get to the combine to turn my quality drafted in the sixth round my brother was pick one oh four. I knew I needed to be picked one oh three, I get I end up being picked two oh four. At that point in times said I'm done in goal setting. So I'm done with it. Um,

So what is my objective? I want to be the greatest person the industry has ever seen, the greatest creative the industry has ever seen. But the beauty of that is objective, which means it's subjective. It's not objective because who you to say is the greatest You say pox's the greatest rapper. He might disagree, so I wouldn't agree. Disagree ahead, But but but it's like, I don't want

anything finite. I want to be when you think about the greatest television personality, I want you to at least have to mention my name and is it just strictly sports you trying to transition more into life as we talked about and we um we passed, well, we haven't passed sports four here right now. I love sports. I love it, Yes I do. Um, But like I remember,

I won the Sports semi. But I'm probably more happy just to be nominated for the prime time because it's one thing to be good at sports, but it's another thing to go into another field and be good there. But that's what I say. I basketball is great, want a championship in Ali, But what I'm doing now it means way more than any basketball, any shot I've ever shot.

Facts And like the dopest thing when people come up to me and say like oh my god, or like when I get introduced to do something like author Manuel Acho. I used to be NFL, but now it's all the title. You know what I'm saying. Um, Like, that's really when you have a listen, that's the growth all right, back on track. Five dinner guests that are alive. This is gonna be interesting. Five dinner guests dead or a lot and they can't please don't let him all they can't.

I'll be Nigerian. No, no, no no, no, no, no, not no, Bressie. If they are not food food, gotti goat meats. I don't want I want steak. Um. Five dinner guests that are alive. Can I get comfortable? Come on, snoop, light on that motherfucking cost the whole interview. Look back at us like this bad longest as long as young clown is ripping my James. It wasn't supposed to rip this much. You know my quads, I squad a lot. Um. Okay, five dinner guests that are alive. One, let's go with

m Okay, I'm okay has to be there. I'm a i'm a I'm a biblical man. But I'm not gonna go Jesus because that's a cop out. So I'm gonna go with Paul. He wrote the majority of the New Testament. Um, so I'm gonna go with him. Um. I'm going to go with Albert Einstein. I gotta learn something. Somebody teach me something. I'm gonna at Einstein. That makes three Um oh easy, uh Will Smith and um, Jamie Fox, you're gonna laugh. You definitely want to laugh. I want to learn.

I think that the most I think Jamie Fox Kirk Franklin or the two most those who I patted my life out of bro Amie Fox that you think I have quote Jamie Fox that this I watched this interview. He said he was playing the piano with Ray Charles one time, playing the pianos with Ray Charles one time and he hits the wrong key. Rachels like, what would you do that for? Right? And and Jamie's like, my bad. Ray, I was just vibe and I was just in the mood. And Ray Charles said to Jamie Fox, all the keys

are underneath your fingers. Take the time to play the right now. He told us that story on the on the show, I think all the keys or take the time. At that point in time, I realized stack every word is in my vernacular. It's in my dick. Take the time to say ever, like all the all the keys a running. It just take So Now when I go on there and I'm about to say something, I'm always like, take the time to say that right, because you have it.

People just rush through it, people rush through life. Take the time to respond to the person properly. Take the time to use the exact right word, because all the keys are underneath your fingers. People don't take the time and so that's just that's how I live my life. It's like take the time to say to play the right note. Last question, who do you want to see on All the Smoke? And you have to help us with yours. You have to help us get the answer on the show. Um, who do I want to see

on All the Smoke? Um? Well, we just saw Joy Taylor on All the Smoke, so you know I would have been great to see her. We did see her, so I think I did my job. Then guys, okay, Stacks, you're not getting away with that one. Who do I want to see on All this? Okay? I got a couple of people I gotta see. Um, I want to see Seal because I want to see Matt and Sell go at it. Um, that would be phenomenal. I know they get I don't know. Y'all have beef, but y'all

have disagreements. Don't have respectful disagreements. When I when I went on the show, the most uncomfortable I've ever been on television, True stories can allowed to tell us that bro we a are Stack comes on. It's the first time Stack didn't come on. Producer came up to me beforehand. I was like, hey, Stephen Jackson, you know, thinking about being on blah blah bla blah blah. I said, Yo, I love Stack. I met him. I met him at a Super Bowl. We crossed past in Miami. I think

dapped each other up real quick. But I was like, but um, I think him and my co host might have an issue. But it's fine anyway, bra So Stat comes on the show. Before we go on, there were chill, Stack, what's good, brother, you're good, family, how you living? You're good? You're good. Stacks like, real quick, if his voice got deep, you know, somebody voice get you start to get scared. Plus said, you know I've seen videos of Stacks. I'm like, god,

is he dangerous? You know, I know he's refined, but you know, I'm not sure how refined is he. You know, I went to private school, so you know. Um, so Stack's voice gets real deep. Hey, Sale, you know I've seen what you said about me, about me and about me and Matt Marcel's like what I say? Stacks said, you know you know what you said? Man. You know I'm like, oh God, I'm sitting here, I'm texting the producer like, yo, I don't know if he's gonna go.

It's like, I know what you said. Marcelf's like, hey, tell me what I said. I'm like, oh God, don't do this. Um Stack keeps sad. You know, Matt told me, no, be careful. What you can't trust, you gotta out of die. Damn he said I can't trust. I said watch out something like that same thing, man, So you know, watch out out to die. Anyway, it all, it's all good. Just that in the third they handle it. But that happened, Matt. Just you put me in a very compromising position, all right.

So Marcell's wildly and the last person I'm gonna say, who do I want to see on all the smoke? Who'll be talking at real talk? Who were talking at real talk? Who were talking about real Who are we talking about real man? Athletes be faking bruss. So I don't even really pump fake athletes be fake. I don't really know who really be talking that talk like that. Um, Aaron Rodgers will be a good one if y'all getting to be real, Aaron Rodgers will be one. You know

what I'm saying, Like he bout it. I love marcellis, but like we talked about before, like he said stuff sometimes that I don't agree with, but I'll text him or we'll DM each other and we'll go back and forth and you know, we'll spit our ship. But I always gotta love from Marcellus. But didn't stay there, you know what I mean, It will stay there. It won't get disrespectful like that, and if if even we're about to close the biggest things, like everybody can have adult

intellectual conversations, disagree without being without being disrespectful. That was the thing when when Stadt brought up this thing with with sale, right, but when we're right before we went live, it's like if it would have got ugly, We're going on national television three to one the state respectful, stam so like you can disagree and still And that's why I was glad to come up here because I was like,

the show is called all the Smoke. I have none of these smoke, and I'm about to go sit down with you. I got enough, but nobody man, you man, we really appreciate, really feel like this is one of the interviews, Like I really feel like I learned a lot today. Man. We thank you for your time and everything you're doing in this space. You know you're making us look good. You were called an athlete, but now you're the author and you're an Emmy nominating. You wanted

me so. Man. We we salute you. We appreciate what you're doing this and keep being great fellas, keep keeping it real. Man. We need you all. We need the dialogue. I'm encouraged by it and I just think they're different ways to speak the same message. You all speak of Joe's way. I speak in my way. It's all love.

I learned something from you today though, and what I'm what I'm gonna take away from this interview is you know what to say and you got the right words, to take your time, to stay with the right word. I use that. Well that's a wrap. Thank our guests, Emmanuel I show you can find him one if that's one. Every day, right, every yourself, every day speak for yourself with Hey and Marcellus Wiley. You can catch all the Smoke on Showtime, Basketball, YouTube and the I Heart platform

Black Effects. See you all next week. Piece. This is All a Smoke, a production of The Black Effect and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime