Deron Williams | Ep 108 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

But Man, shout, you gotta get shout out every time. Ashes, crazy man running the house and two years old, but it looks like he's five. Man. We got a man, A special guest, A great guest, someone who shipped on our two thousand seven dreams of going to the finals. But someone I've always been a real big fan of. Man, huge game, very underrated to me. Um just went about his business in a cold way. Welcome to the show, Darren Williams. Man, what's up with you? Man? I'm telling boys,

I appreciate you having me on my boy. I can't complain. What's life being like man? Since you've being retired. I see your beautiful family. I follow you on Instagram all the time. Super daddy duty, great husband. What's life been like since uh you stopp dribbling their ball? Well ship a lot, uh you know for you know, the first couple of years, it was kind of just figuring out what the hell is next? You know, Um, I didn't really want to, you know, jump into coach and I

needed a break from that that travel, that lifestyle. Plus I had you know, my kids are a little older, so I want to be able to spend time with them. I got a daughter that's uh, she's off in college now, got another one who's playing volleyball in high school and doing the club circuits. So I want to you know, be able to spend time with them and see them, you know, grow up. So kind of that's that's what that's what you know, consumes a lot of my time. Now. I was playing a lot of golf, but kind of

took a step back from that. Lately. You finished playing in what your sixteen fifteen seventeen you and not finished the same year? What was that? What I mean, it wasn't really like I need to hurry up and do something. But how long did it kind of take you to kind of find your rhythm? Because you gotta think we've been pooping our whole entire lives, you know what I mean. Now you're now your mid thirties, your early thirties for you, and now you still got more than half your life

ahead of you. What was that time like? What it's stressful? Was it boring? Was it fun? What was it like for you? Yeah, I'm thirty seven now, actually, uh so I'm I'm headed up. I'm headed to the forties with you boys. Um waiting honestly, Honestly, the first the first year, you know, it was kind of one of the things where I was like, do I still want to play? Do I do? I not? Um? And I kind of just started traveling. You know. I was skiing a bunch.

I picked up skiing because it's something I couldn't do when I was When I was I was playing, but I always something always wanted to try, you know. I was golfing a lot, kind of just staying busy like that. You know, kids as well, and there's only so much of that stuff you can do. Where you start you start feeling, you start feeling like you're a mom. You ain't what what what's you know? What is this what

my life is about? You know? Like you said, it's you know, we woke up every day with a purpose, with a passion. And then you know they try to tell you in all the meetings are the NBA meetings, about how one day you're gonna wake up and it's just gonna be it's gonna be over. And so, uh, you know, after about two years of that, and I was just like, man, I gotta I gotta do something. I can't just this all this idle time, and you know, your mind starts wandering, started you know, doing crazy things

on you. Then I was going through a divorce at the time, so all that you know, kinda kind of started, you know, creeping in my mind, started weighing on you. And I was like, man, I gotta find something to do.

And um, I had always I had done a couple of spec homes, you know, some some house building, and all the moving I've done and living in the houses, I started to develop a love for architecture and interior design, and so I was like, man, I gotta this' that's what that's what I love to do, is kind of you know, what I want to do. And so you know, I started, you know, started building some spec homes out here in Dallas. That's dope. Parkersburg, West Virginia. Tell us

about your upbringing, Um, shoe, I was. I was born in Parkersburg, West Virginia, lived in Williamstown until I was about about four years old, almost five, and then I moved to Texas. My mom, um moved me to Texas.

My aunt was out here living and so you know, I didn't spend too much time, um, you know, living full time in West Virginia, but I did go back every summer to stay with my grandparents and spend time with them up until like seventh grade, til you know, you reached that agevia you're like, oh, I just want to be around my friends. Um. But but West Virginia was fun. It was different, you know, I was I was the only only person of my color in that town.

Uh town about about about three thousand. So I used to get a lot of a lot of looks, a lot of a lot of little comments at the time. I didn't really understand until I got older. Um, but uh, you know, I definitely enjoyed my time there. Are you just light skin or you buy racial? My mom's white, dad's black. Yeah. Yeah. He was involved with wrestling growing up. Why could you describe your younger self and what other sports you was in besides basketball wrestling? And I grew

up playing everything, you know. I was just one of them kids where I just wanted to. I just wanted to whatever whatever the sport was that season, and whatever my friends was doing, I was I was gonna do it, and I was gonna I was in and it didn't matter, it didn't matter. And yeah, wrestling was my Wrestling and soccer were actually my first two sports. And I didn't even really play organized you know, team basketball till I think fourth grade. Um, so, uh, you know, wrestling actually

is my first sport. My mom, I get from my uncle wrestled in high school, college and in the army, and so she just, I don't know, she randomly just asked me if I wanted to wrestle, and I was like,

all right, I'll try. I mean, I don't I was like I was four, so I don't, you know, I remember it, But she tells me the story and she's like, so, you know, you went to practice and you went out there in your first match, and she said I had to drag you out there because you was crying like you didn't want to go out, and uh she had to do that every match the whole season because she was, you know, we didn't have no money, so she was like, I paid for this. I signed you up and paid

for this exactly. And so every match, she said that whole year, I went out, cried, cried on the way out, went out there, I got whooped pent real quick and left. And uh so the next summer she comes back and she's like, she asked me if I wanted to do it again, and she's expecting me to instantly say no, and for some reason I said yes. And she said, like halfway through the year, it was the same thing, and she's like, here we go again, every match, crying,

And then I guess something about halfway through flipped. I was sick of getting whooped and going home crying, so I kind of flipped the switch and and uh went the other way. You know, I'm a Texas boy myself, you know what I'm saying. Speak on being from Texas and being from Texas, who did you monther your game? After Shure? I had a you know a lot of

guys I feel like I looked up to. I watched a lot of basketball, a lot of college basketball and so um a lot of NBA and I kind of just tried to model my game after a lot of people, you know, I was. I guess I set myself a student of the game at the time, and um, you know, JA Kid was was a big influence on me. Gary Payton, a lot of the a lot of the bigger guards, you know, a lot of the bigger guards. You know, when you're you're kind of the same size of them,

and that's the trend at the time. That's who you're gonna you know, you're gonna watch and and try to emulate. But man, I was I was a fan of AI. I mean who wasn't who didn't want to who didn't want to have to cross over like AI. I watched Starberry, I watched Stevie franchise. Um. Man, I even watched guys like Sam casell Um, you know, Baron Davis, Um. You know, yeah, y'all, y'all's brother, we did. But you know, before that, I

was a fan. I mean I wore I wore five in high school and him, him and J Kidd was a big reason. Um, you know, I didn't have athleticism uh b d there, But I was you know, I was a little sneaky, definitely got it all. Yeah, so high school star, you end up choosing Illinois. Was there anyone else you seriously considered before picking there? Yeah? I mean, my, my, my situation was a little crazy because I had kind

of had like a top UM top four. It was Illinois was kind of number one, but but Dee Brown had already committed there, and I'm like, why why y'all still recruit me? And y'all got this little point guard who's ranked ahead of me. I've never seen him play, but he was ranked ahead of me. I'm like, I'm not I'm not a two guard. I'm I'm a point guard.

So I'm like, I don't know. UM, Georgia Tech, Tennessee, and Maryland were my top four and so I was set to go on my uh my visits and the day before I was supposed to the week I was supposed to go to Illinois, UM nine eleven happened and so that set everything back and I had I don't know how many months I had to wait UM before I could take a visit. But in that time when I was waiting UM, the week before I was supposed

to go to Tennessee for my visit. Uh C J. Watson committed to Tennessee and then the day before I was supposed to go, or the day I was supposed to go to Georgia tech um Jared Jack committed and then Maryland called me. It was like I had never met, really met Gary Williams except for like at a tournament, like saying hi. And they told me he wasn't gonna be on my visit, and I was like, well, I

ain't gonna go. I ain't gonna go nowhere where the coaching would be on a visit, I ain't met him, and and Steve Blake was already there, so it was kind of like a It was a process of elimination. But at the same time, Illinois was kind of my top school anyway, so it worked out. So you started with Bill self there right, was that your first year? Yeah? Bill self and then he left after freshman came in and really helped you developed your game along alongside playing

with Dee Brown and Luther Head. You guys had a good young a good young squad because I was finishing up right when you got into college. So I remember you guys, what were some of your biggest takeaways from Coach Webber and then being able to play with two future pros and Dee Brown and Luther Head. Yeah, honestly,

I was. I was almost I was like, I was like pretty damn close to to to transferring, um after my freshman year, after coach coach self left because he was a big reason I went there, him and him and Billy Gillespie, and he Billy Gillespie had had took his first head job, you know, before my freshman year.

And then coach self left and then Bruce Webber came in and I didn't really know much about him, um, and nobody really did at the time, and then Coach Webber loved him to death, you know, still talk to him all the time. But he's a little goofy, and so if you don't you don't really if you don't know him, it's hard to understand them, you know, hard to see where he's coming from as a coach, as a person. Um. So it took me a little bit of time, and I was I was pretty damn close

to transferring. But I'm honestly, I'm glad I didn't, you know, I'm very grateful for coach both coaches, but really coach Webber because he definitely helped me flourish in his offense. Um, it's kind of built for me and kind of you know, helped me prepare for the NBA. We ran in motion with a lot of picking rolls, which at the time I don't think a lot of a lot of college teams were doing. And so it helped me learn learned spacing, UM,

learned the pick and roll game really well. Oh, and then learning how to move without the ball, which definitely came in handy when I got when I got to Utah and playing in Jerry Sloan system. Junior year, you lead your team to the national Championship game but fall short to North Carolina and Raymond Felton. What do you remember about your junior year, Um, and then that national championship game? Yeah, I mean it was a crazy year.

We we finished that sophomore year, like I said, we kinda we had a rough first half of the year, I think just we were all adjusting to the new system,

new coach, UM. But we closed out that last that last UM half of the season pretty strong, won the Big ten Um Championship, and then you know, I had a pretty successful run, lost to Duke in the in the sweet sixteen, and so we kind of just built on on on that momentum, you know, going into the next season and started off you know, hot, about as hot as you can, you know, didn't lose until the

last last game of the regular season. And I had always had hopes of playing in the NBA, and and you know, I felt like I was was good enough. But I was never one of those guys that was even in high school. I wasn't you know, highly touted. I wasn't McDonald's. I wasn't you know most of the part. I wasn't even top fifty besides a couple of little rankings, and so I didn't I believed in myself, but I wasn't seeing you know, my name on the draft wars.

I wasn't seeing any of that stuff. And and that season, you know, as we kept winning, UM, you could just see my name just kind of slowly showing up and showed up on second round and would show up on um, you know, late first round, and then all of a sudden we get to the you know, we get to the Elite eight, and I had that big game against Arizona, having to come back against them, and UM made it to the final four in the championship game, and my

name just kept kept climbing, UM, and just honestly happened so fast because that season, you know, I feel like that season blew by UM and we get to that national championship game and fall short to I mean, they were a stack team. So who was who was on that Who else was on that team? Man? Yeah, yeah, Sean May, Ray Felton, r Shan mccainns UM, Jawal Williams, Marvin Williams, didn't even he was second pick in the

draft and he came off the bench. Um. They were they were stating they had a good squad, and you know, I still think we could have beat him, but you know, they were the better team that night, for sure. But you were one of those rare players. And it's funny how you kind of just explained the same way, like

you were at your best in the NBA. You know, I mean sometimes people are at their best in college and that's kind of the best of you, but like the best of you was yet to come, which I think is dope because you obviously became a star in the NBA. But go ahead, Jack. You declared for the NBA two thousand and five after that season. What was that thought process like after that season, after Louis Uh, yeah,

I mean it's it took it, you know it. I had a little bit of thought of that maybe coming back, um, just because I felt like, you know, we could still be really good. Um. But it's hard when you're my mom. At the time, she didn't have she she had lost her job. I had a I had a child that I had my freshman year. She was about to be too. And you see that, you know, your guarantee top ten. Um, it was kind of a no brainer for me at the times. Yeah, I had to go get that money.

And so, you know, if it was like it is now where these kids are getting paid and you know, you can get some endorsements, it might have been different. But at the time, you know, my stock was at an all time high. You know, nobody expected me to be a top five pick, and so, um, you know, I had to strike while I was hot. So the Utah Jazz had left you third uh CP three's in that class draft class. As you mentioned, Marvin Williams went

right before you. Uh. Any memorable things happened draft nights, crazy stories anything you haven't told nobody, Not really, not really. I mean I had worked out. I didn't work out for Milwaukee. I think Andrew Bogan was pretty much a locket Number one. Worked out for Atlanta. I thought I had a really good workout and they needed a point guard at the time because they had like three small forward,

power forward type players already. You know, I had your brother, al um, Josh Childress, they had Josh Smith, and then they end up picking up picking up Marvin. But um, you know, I knew it was either it was either them Utah or Charlotte. But New Orleans or Charlotte because I worked out for all those teams that were you know, two through five. Um, but nothing, nothing really stood out, you know, I didn't know. I knew. I knew CP was was more highly regarded than me, and so I

figured he might go before me. But I knew Utah was kind of um big on my size and having a bigger, bigger point guard. M hm. So Salt Lake City, Utah, what is that like for you? As what are you nineteen or twenty at this point I was I had just turned twenty one two days before the draft, so what was that like culture shock, I'm guessing, Um yeah, it was different. I mean, but uh, I feel like I can live anywhere. I mean, I lived in Champagne, Illinois.

It's number corn fields out there, you know. And um, I was I had, I had, I had a you know, a girlfriend at the time who ended up being my wife, you know, one baby and another one on the way. So I was kind of I think it was kind of good for me, you know that you didn't have that, didn't have that Atlanta nightlife, you know, things like that. It helps you, uh, you know, stay more focused, you know. And so I said you were like stacking you're allergic

condoms at a young age. Huh, yeah, you can say that. You can say that I had I had four before I was twenty six. Four kids. Jackie might be with you, jack but then you definitely you definitely got him beat then because he got not even my category. Yeah, he's not even my category, he's not even So what was what was your rookie experience? Like who was some of the bets you had on that squad? Uh? So I had I had, Like my vet vest was was note Pelosio. He was probably one that that helped me the most

my rookie year kind of took me under his wing. Um. And then I had Matt Heartpering, Greg Ostertag and then you know Booze and and a K and Memo kind of vets. But they were still you know, they were like fourth year in. Um, we had a pretty pretty young team besides besides you know, Matt Harpering and Ostertag, Um, so we were ready to rock. What was that system like? And obviously a legendary coach like Jerry Sloan? How hard

was it was? It was it a tough transition to kind of fit in or did you kind of fit in seamlessly? No? I feel like I fit in pretty seamlessly. Um. You know, the hardest thing was with coach Sloan was he he was one of those coaches that, um, you know, he was super old school, so he wasn't just gonna start a rookie just because you know he's picked third. You know, I remember to start the season, Keith McCloud was the starting point guard and Milt Um. Milt and

me kind of rotated in. I would play a lot with Milk one, one, two. But I mean the first half of the season I was pretty much playing second and fourth quarters. That's it, just twenty four minutes second fourth quarter. So I would I would in the game, but I wasn't starting. And it still bothered me because I knew I was I was the best point guard. I knew I was the best option. Um. But you know, as coach Slan, he wants to make you earn it. And I went through a lot of ups and downs

that season, a lot of a lot of frustrations. UM, even a point where I was kind of I wasn't playing well. I wasn't playing a lot. It's like one game I played, I played a whole guy. I played forty eight minutes, and then the next game I played eight. And it's just I wouldn't I wouldn't know what And I think it's not. I don't say it's him working with me, but I mean it kind of was. And that's what I think. That's what he wanted to see,

how you would react, how you respond. You know, Yeah, and at the time you don't know this, you're t you know, you're twenty one years old. You're just like that funk this. You know there's some bullshit. Um, But when you look back on it. You know what, you see what he's doing. He's he's trying to you know, um, see what your character is, see how you're gonna respond. And and I had to at once. I think it was like All Star Break. I wasn't, like I said, I didn't know if I was gonna play. I didn't

know I was gonna play the one. I was gonna play the two. And I took All Star Break, and I was like, man, you know what, when you come back, you just gotta no matter what you do, you just gotta go out there and play hard, because that's what he wants. He just wants you to play hard. Practice. It was practice. I was competing like like it was a game. I was gonna treat that like it was a game. Shoot around we had to take for shoot around. I was gonna treat that like a game. You had

one of those around, yeah, yeah. And so it took, like I guess I think five games after after All Star Break, where I just was, I was just going hard, and then he ended up starting me and I started the rest of the season. We missed. We missed the playoffs by one game. I think we missed by one or two games, which I believe we could have made up for I would have started from the beginning, but

you know that's that's neither hear there. What was kind of like your did you have like an all moment your first year playing anybody that you kind of idolize your look up to my first game, the first game of the season, Jay Kid, Yeah, played Jay Kuld. I had eighteen. Uh. I felt like I was on top of the world after that game, you know, I was like, I helped my own in twenty four minutes. So, um, I think that that definitely helped my confidence. I always

knew that I belonged. I think from from from the get go. M uh, as you said, you kind of in and out, up and down, but you're still able to make a first team All rookie. Um next to Chris Paul the only one to receive Rookie of the Year votes. Was that, I mean not He's not really a surprise because you knew you had it in you, but the fact that it was kind of an up and down first half you were still to make All

Team rookie was a surprise to you. Um No, I mean I knew I was first team, but I don't think I deserved to vote for uh for for Rookie of the Year. I think CEP definitely had that, you know he he you know, was kind of giving the keys to the ship right away, um and and play really well. So uh, my Loan, my loan vote was Ron Boone, which was he you know, he was TV for the Jazz. So shout out vote for that vote. But but I don't think I don't think I deserved

it one thing about it. As much as I dislike playing in Utah and being in Utah, Coach Loan loved me bro He tried to actually he tried to give me out there a couple of times. And one thing I think the reason why he liked me because I was able to thrive in that Pop system and him and Pop are very similar with their coach at tactics, like they'll they'll do a lot of things to you as young players just to see how you're gonna react,

gonna react. They already know how you gonna react and what's your response is gonna be, but they're still put you through it just to see how you're gonna respond. So that's one thing I respected about him because he was a tough minded coach. As long as you played hard, you gotta respect c P. I had a short stint with the Clippers. But during that short stint we played, y'all.

And when I talked when for some reason for me, you know, I've always been a fan of you like me, and you talked doing my career, doing your career, talking about playing together d well, so but I know, for some reason, it seemed like U n c P had a battle to see who can cross each cross each other over the most. So that game I played for the Clippers, we played in Brooklyn, bro U n c P the first quarter must have crossed each each each

other over about ten times a piece in these picking roles. Bro, What what what? What? What was it with you and CP? Bro? Was it was it just that the competitiveness, But it just seemed like, yeah, I was trying to cross each other over the whole game. Yeah, I mean I feel I feel like I tried to cross everybody over. Stat

you know that. I mean, you know, it didn't matter who was But I think I think, I think the CP thing was it was a friendly robbery because we had known each other since since college, um, and we played each other in college they were number one at the beginning of that season or my junior year when when we both left and we ended up we ended up blowing them out, and we neither one of us really had good games. But I feel like that's kind

of where where the rivalry started right there. And then I think going going three and four in the draft, one after each other, and and we were always linked to each other, you know, throughout the media. You know, they would always bring it up every game, and so you know, it's definitely and and we were, you know, to the up and coming point guards in the league. So I used to get up for that game for sure.

I mean I get up for all the good point great point guards, but but definitely, you know, against cp UM, because you had to. You're gonna get embarrassed. Jack. I think I remember that game too where he actually crossed something over and had the audacity to try to dunk on Blake and Ryan Hollands, and Blake caught that ship with his r pit remember that dye. But if I would have, if I would have made it, hey, that would have been crazy because you were chested chance with

six eleven and seven one. But when I look, when I look back. Yeah, I should have tried to up and under a scoop for something she was But now I like that you went hard, like fucking I'm gonna try to dunk this bit. He was in the Western Conference too, So what what what other matchups you look forward to? You know, you had the Legs, you had, the Spurs, you had, you know, the Mavericks. What are

the matchups you look forward to? Besides, I always like to play Dallas and was like to play at home because you know, I'm from Dallas, so um, that was always fun to go go home and play in front from my family and friends. Definitely love playing against San Antonio just because they were always the best you know, UM and TP brought brought the best out of you and and just that system you have to be locked into. Play against the Spurs where you're gonna get embarrassed, um,

because they were just a well oiled machine. Um. Definitely like playing against y'all um the Bay. Honestly, that was one of the That's one of the craziest arenas to playing when I was When I was playing at Oracle, Um, y'all, y'all fans, y'all fans, they had to come up and put um, well, they put security by my mom in the playoffs because my mom was crazy too. She'd be talking like she was like nobody talking about about me. Yea, so,

and my mom whistled. She got that loud whistle where you you know, blow with your with your with your fingers, and she was doing that in the game. And so then this other dude started whistling in her like all close. So she calls up the the ushers and she she's explaining what's happening, and the usher basically ain't care, called another usher down, told her to stop, she needed to stop whistling, and in stood behind her and was whistling in her ear. This this is during this during the

Western semis Um that this happened. But h man, it's it's honestly like I feel like when I was when I was playing, every night was was a tough match up at my position. I mean, you had the sons, you had Steve Nash, you know, Ai had come over to in Denver, and before that it was Chauncey you know, um, and so it was just I mean, every night was was was a battle. So you helped in the three year drought make the playoffs the two thousand and six,

two thousand seventh season. What was that first round battle like with with Houston, Man, it was crazy, honestly, Um, nobody nobody expected us to win that. They had Team mac Man. Yeah, um yeah, way for Austin Bonds Wells yea, yeah, no, no, nobody nobody expected us to win that. But you know we took him to Game seven and on the road

and one down in Houston. Um, and so yeah, that that definitely, I think I think that whole season was you know, it was a was a big confidence booster for me because that's where I kind of started gaining notoriety around the league and in the media. But I think that that playoffs is what kind of gave me my confidence, like that superstar confidence where you feel like you're the best player on the court no matter who

you play, and you was definitely playing like it. So second round we do the unthinkable and able to beat Dallas to meet you guys in the second round. Um, you guys beat us for they for too, you guys beat us. But I'm not gonna lie. I really felt like we got cheated by the rest in game one. In Game two with all the mother, hold on, hold on, hold on now, I would say we got cheated in game two, but game yeah, game too now, But it was to me, I mean, and Jack and I still

talk about this. I mean, your guys crowd was crazy, sometimes crossed the line, but at the same time, we loved it because, like you said, the bullshit that you faced an oracle, like as players were thriving that like, we love that kind of negative energy towards us because it only gets us going more. But your guys crowd was wild. The more of us were out there acting up. Boy, That's that's what I hear. Man. So I never heard anything racial or anything like that. That's that's what I

hear from everybody. So it's not like it's just one or two players said this. I hadn't heard it. I hadn't heard it from everybody. They're like, man, y'all fans be saying whatever took us for real? Um, but yeah, they were. They were crazy. I mean I remember my first I mean, our crowd was always great throughout the whole season was honestly, it was amazing, but that my first, um, that first playoff game that I ever played. And you talk when I ran out I got chills on all

out of it because I wasn't expecting. I mean, the whole the whole arena was already filled and they was ready, you know, had all the same colored shirts on, and just man, you went out there and it just seemed like the roof was about the blow off. You remember the car board cut out the guy had of me under the basket and the jail. Mr I remember, I remember that Mr Wagby. Yeah, the LFE size. Let's to Mr Mr Wammy. He always had a little rubber chicken him.

Not too long ago. I talked to him not too long ago on DN and my dear, that's Dough a one person who kind of I mean, obviously you guys were loaded with yourself Booze or Cord Young millsap someone who I think kind of got overlooked. But I know, you know how important he was. Talked to us about a K forty seven because to me, he changed the whole dynamic. Jack and Beady were both rolling in the first round and a K was someone who slowed both

of them down a little bit. But talk to me about his versatility and how much he meant for your guys. Team man listen, if a if a K had a jumper insistent, I think he would have been the best player in the league at the time, Like honestly, because there's nobody it was they could fill up stats like him. I mean Lebron Lebron, But man, he just had he just he was everywhere um defensively and then offensively. He

had he had a great feel for the game. He was a great passer, great understanding of where to be um and like you said, what he does on defense, I mean, he he changes the game. You know, he's he's he's his help side defense is incredible. Uh. You know, he raised a lot of mistakes with him because we didn't have the say her shot blocker, you know we had we had been Moan boo, so they neither one

of them was really shot blockers. It was a K that would would come and help and at the time, you know, the three position was probably one that you could help off the most in that area. Yeah. Uh, but Bed did get him. That motherfucker was coming from the week stide blocking everything. But Beati went on that baseline that one time and got him. What were you thinking during that dunk? I'm so sick of seeing that ship and even this year that was the opening day.

They had shirts, they had posters, this ship was twenty years ago. And then and then and then fast forward, Steph dunks and pulls up his shirt like recreating it. So then you know it goes back viral. Then you got you got all these you got all these I G s. You got throwback hoops, she got way back hoops, she got pastime hoops. They showed it, and then and then I feel bad because it's my dad fault. Terrible defense. Uh but yeah, I mean if you're a shot blocker,

you're gonna get guys. It's just it's a but it was bad. Man. He smushed his nose when they showed him. It's it's bad. Next that next that next year we played on that first game. That's that's what was that had posters cut out of that his smudged nose with with Beati's hand on it. I was like, damn, my fault. I was all I could do is say sorry. The reason why I was so crazy though, because Beaty had a bad knee, he had a bad back. He wasn't supposed to play that game. Uh. All that, all that,

all that that was going on. He said he didn't have it, he was back, was hurting, his knee was hurt. He was gonna play all that and he come out and do that. That that's that's what That's what really shocked us because we didn't know. I didn't know he had it in him. To be honest, yeah I did, but I didn't. I didn't know. He didn't tell me all that we was. I mean I literally was with him every before every game, and I definitely didn't know he was hurt. But you know, he ain't gonna say

that to me because I'm very possible. Yeah, you're gonna go at him and take advantage of it. So you guys were able to advance to the Western Finals first time since ninety eight, since the Stockton the Malone era. You face a tough uh San Antonio Spurs team. What was that experience like for you? Man? It's a little bit like yours. I felt like we were cheated. I felt like Dick Bavetta got us in game games, game three, UM,

because we were down. We lost both games in San Antonio, UM, and then had Game three and that was a game four, Game three, Game four, I can't remember. No, I think it was Game three because I think we went down three three, oh, which I mean you can't really do against him, But it was it was a good learning experience, you know. And it was one of those where, like I said, the confidence starts to grow. Um, I think for us as a team as well. Um, And we

got to play against the champs. You know, they ended up winning. They end up sweeping uh Lebron and the Calves in the finals, and so you know, we felt like we felt like we belonged. We felt like honestly, I think we could have we could have beat Cleveland. If we would have, we would have got past San Antonio,

MM old dirty Dick Bavetta. Huh. Let's talk about the teammates, Booze and Paul millsapp they tried to build them like a stock him a long time connection with you and Boozer, you know, talk about that team and how all that came together and how it was like playing with guys like Mill Sapping or callers. Booze, Yeah, man, I mean, uh, me and Booze definitely had a connection from from the start. Um. Offensively, uh, He's just he was so good in the pick a role.

He's a very smart player. Um, you know, obviously went to Duke, so most of most of them dudes know how to play the game. You know, I understand where to be on the floor. And you know, he was a great finisher around the basket, could shoot that little the little fifteen seventeen foot pull up and um, it was a hell of a screener, that's for sure, big body.

So you know, he made my job easy. Um. And then Paul mills at and I watched him, watched him developed from from a guy drafted forty thinkt um who nobody even really I didn't know who he was coming out. Um, and just every year, you know, it just he just

got better, improved. And he's had a hell of a career if you would have Man, he's still playing the game right now at level you know, um, multi time All Star, um, you know, and and it's fun seeing him still still playing, hopefully hopefully be able to get a ring. Mm hmmm. What was your relationship like with

Jerry Sloan. Obviously we're on the outside, so we only hear the media perspective, and we know sometimes the media perspective is off, but it was it was It was seemed like a little back and forth between you guys, and there was rumors that mid season he had uh stepped down because some situations had with you guys. Uh clear the air with your and Jared Sloan situation. Obviously, rest in peace to Coach Sloan. Yeah, yeah, rest in peace Coach Loan. Um. You know, I think our our

relationship was was definitely strained at the end. I think, Um, I think I held onto that rookie year, you know, not starting and not you know, the way he kind of um, you know when I talked about earlier about how you know he didn't really play me and would play me, you know, a couple of minutes here and

all of a sudden I played. I think I took that personally for a while, you know, when I was younger and kind of held that, um, that grudge, and so I think that that affected me a little bit, and um, I was definitely a little shit at times, a little little prima donna, and so um Also I knew how Coach Sloan was, and I think I kind of, um, we poked the bear, you know, just to see his see his reactions to it. Was kind of like a

little back and forth thing. And you know ship that I definitely wouldn't do now or you know, knowing what I know now. UM, but I always respected coach Sloan. UM, I learned a lot from him. UM, you know my best years were we're definitely in Utah. Um, I definitely my best basketball I definitely thrived in his system. And UM, you know I got a lot of love and respect for for him as a coach and as a person.

Did you guys have any conversations after your career or just kind of once that situation and Utah kind of fell away, That's kind of what it was. I ended up meeting with him about I think about three two and a half years ago, maybe two years ago. UM the owner Greg Miller, old owner and and um GM got got me to go out there and meet with coach Loan and kind of clear the air and uh, we're able to talk. But I had always wanted to

reach out. It's like one of those things where I always knew I need to reach out and apologize and to feel like, UM just kind of I don't know if I was scared or just you know, you just was Number one. Coach Sloan's intimidating even as even as a grown as a grown man. It's like, you know, because I was with him when I was so young, it's like you always you know, looked at him differently and um um. But I was able to talk with him,

you know. And and this is after he was diagnosed, you know, with dementia, and so he was you know, definitely um regressing a little bit. And and you know, our our conversations were kind of they actually got heated a couple of times. Well he got heated a couple of times, and it's like almost like he was right back, right back in the moment, you know, and I pissed him off. I was like, oh, ship, And you know Coach Loan, you know, Coach Solana fight you, no question,

and Coach Slon will fight you. I've seen him. I've seen him try to go at Jerry Steakhouse for in the game, Like, coach, I don't know if you're gonna do that right now. Maybe that ain't the one, but yeah, I was. I was happy I was able to to get a chance, um before he passed, to talk with him and apologize for you know, being a little ship.

Mm hmm. Well I think it's dope. I mean, obviously we've all had those moments in our career where in the moment it seems like everything, but then when we've got either down the line or after we're done, like, damn, I definitely could have did this different. I definitely could have acted this way different. But to me, it's all about growth and maturity. But the only teacher is that experience. So in the moment, like you said, you held onto that ship from your rookie year because you knew what

it was. But then at the beginning of the interview years just like he was kind of testing my mental but at the time you didn't you were thinking about it. You're like, funk this dude, man with the funk, I should be out here playing. So I think it's dope for you know, in any situation, you know, sports, life, relationships, but to be able to kind of go back and kind of find where you could have did better, you know, or or what I could have did different to kind

of help the situation. I always think that's dope. February twenty three, two thousand and eleven, You're traded to New Jersey for Devin Harris and Derek Favors first round picks, in some cash. How did you find out about it?

And what was your thought process on leaving the place that you grew from a boy to a man and and you talk, Yeah, it was tough, and that honestly that shaped a lot of like the in the next years for me, just because that's it was right after the situation had happened with coach Sloan Um and so I was getting killed in the media and and and all that, and UM, I was in the training room in Dallas in the hotel, taping for shoot around and

we were watching Sports Center. UM, because we're playing Dallas that night. I was on back home, you know, got like had a whole suite and like twenty other tickets to the game, and UM, all of a sudden, it pops across the screen because Mello had just been um traded to the next And then it was like breaking news, Darren Williams traded to the nets. And this is the first time I'd even heard my name mentioned in the trade. And so I called my agent and I was like, hey,

this just happened, Like what's going on. He was like, I don't know, this is my first time hearing it. So he gets on the phone and then called me back in like five minutes. He's like, yeah, you're you traded and so UM it was like, oh, um, unexpected. I had my young my youngest. UM was um my my wife at the time was pregnant with my youngest She was like seven months pregnant when when this happened. So I end up having to pick up go back get my stuff from from New York and I mean

from uh Utah and head to New York. And it was a little bit of a shot, you know, because I'm going from a team who we made the playoffs in each of the four years, and I was going to a team who, you know, didn't really have a shot at making the playoffs. But you know, UM, I just kind of took it as a challenge. Is um trying to make him as as good as possible. So you go there, You go to a team that not really doing anything. You signed a big extension. You're you're

the next season there. If I'm not mistaken, right, you signed a five year near a hundred million dollar deal. Yeah yeah, uh you guys moved to Brooklyn. Uh jay zs in the mix. Um, the win now mentality starts taking over what was that transition, like going to Brooklyn with this new energy and like you said, at first, you didn't have no hope, but then there's actually you know, you feel that you see like there's some light at

the end of the tunnel. Yeah, I mean definitely, they definitely had to win now mentality, um, and we're trying to do whatever they could to you know, to put together a championship team. I think you know, um, that was always his goal from from the start when he took over the team and kind of had an unlimited budget and so you know you saw him spending money

and doing different things. Um. And you know it was definitely, Uh, it was a different buzz when we moved to Brooklyn, you know, around the team and you know jay Z was there, you know, a lot of games and opened up the arena, you know, seven straight concerts. It was just a lot of energy in the building, you know, something that we we really didn't see in in uh in New Jersey, and it was fun. There was rumors, was it any truth to uh, the White Hour possibly

coming and joining you there. Yeah. I mean honestly, I thought it was a done deal. Um several times, you know, UM, but I don't know what why it didn't work out in the end, um, but it would have been I think it would have been good for us. Man. That would have been scary. That's before that's that's so that did. He ended up going to the Lakers shortly after that, right, Yeah, I think he's stayed like another year and then was the Lakers he went to first? Or Rockets? Was it

the Rockets first? Somewhere? It just was It wasn't the nets? Wasn't the net? What was it like? Uh, building chemistry and getting a chance to play with Joe Johnson is so Joe in a young Brook Lopez? Yeah, I mean, man, it was great. We had a lot of talent on that team. Um, you know, Uh, Joe was the first like two guards that I had ever played with that was like a ball, you know, bald domin it great score.

You know, most of the guys I played with in Utah were either shooters, complimentary pieces, you know, defenders, um, you know, three and D guys um. And so this was my first time playing with with with a guy in the backcourt who was you know, you know, on the same level as me, and um, you know, it was definitely fun playing with Joe, he made the game easy. Uh,

still getting buckets to this day wherever. I mean, the dude was just so strong, so talented, had ice in his veins, you know, love that that that uh to take the last shot. And then you know, it was fun watching Brooke developed too, you know, and and um, you know he was young and you know a lot of a lot of it. Took a lot of stuff from the media for his lack of rebounding, but what he what he didn't do rebounding he made up for and a lot of other things. And he was very talented.

You know, back to the basket guy and shoot if he would have been shooting. I knew he could shoot threes back then, but he wasn't doing it because it it was it wasn't like that and not not not like that, not like it is now. And uh, same thing with Paul millsapp when I played with him, he could shoot him, but he never did. And uh, but I was I was actually happy for Brooke when he got one this year. Yeah, that's dope. So what's your mindset?

Two thousand thirteen, You guys pick up KG and Paul Pierce obviously the win now mentally what were your initial thoughts hearing that you're getting, you know, two feature Hall of Famers. I was excited, you know, and and you know it didn't It didn't work out, Um, And that's what everybody looks at. But I easily feel like it could have worked out just the same. Um. We just were hit with injuries. You know, Brooke end up breaking his foot and was out most of the season. Um

Paul had got hurt. I started out the season hurt. Injury just kind of hit his KG was. I mean, Kg is one of the toughest Dude've ever been around. Man. I mean those days where his it's like he was dragging his knee, you know, around in practice and you have to they have to kick him off the court, you know, the trainers had to come out there and like physically removed him off the court because he didn't

want to get off the court. And we'll be and we'll be mad, Um, And so it's just it's one of those things where we we started off the season terrible. I mean, we were like the laughing stock of the league for a while and end up um, you know, having a great second half of the season, and then UM end up losing to Miami team who obviously wouldn't

won the championship. But you know, I feel like as much flak as we got for not not being what we should have been, it could have if if if the injuries didn't happen the way they did, you know, we could have been really really uh. I mean that was so that was you at the point, Joe at the two, Paul at the three, Kg at the four, and Brook at the five. Right, yeah, man, yeah, what is I mean? You spoke to Kg's toughness and mentality.

He's a part of the Showtime family. Now what were you remember anything particularly You might have learned from maybe those a little bit later in your career, but to me being around him, I'm always like a sponge. Anything you remember that you kind of learned from KG, it's just his I mean, honestly, his work ethic, his work ethic. I've been around a lot of a lot of guys with with crazy work ethics, and I put his, you know,

up there with him. You know, and even though he was you know older at the time, you know, he was older than a lot of the guys who I'm talking about. The bronze Um of the world, but his work ethic was he was one of the first in first last to leave. You know, what you want from a leader. You was way by the nest and they brought you out. What were you thinking after that? Like it was kind of a mutual thing where I thought

it was time for me to go. Um. I just uh, I felt like my time and ran his course there. You know, I was dealing with injuries. I wasn't I wasn't playing up to my contract, which was you know, um not. It's a hard pill to swallow, but but it was true. And I just need to kind of a fresh start, you know. I kind of at that point I started I started really not loving the game, you know, um just because you know, it wasn't even like everybody thinks so I couldn't handle New York. It

wasn't It wasn't that, it wasn't the media. It was more the pressure that I put on myself, you know, and and um, I had a lot going going on in my home life that you know, people don't know about or would never know about. And um, and so it was just somethinghere. I just needed to change the scenery. Um and ended up going to Dallas, back home um and kind of found that love for the game. Again, touch on this because we had a chance to talk to Isaiah Thomas about this and you briefly touched on it.

But the mental of this game is out of this world. I you know, I coached my kids now and I tell them, you know, ship everybody could play. What's gonna set you far to get you get you to that next level is that mental approach. So when you're mental is still as strong as it's ever been, but then injuries start piling up, Like, how tough is that to kind of deal with? Because like you said, it wasn't It wasn't SI about the media. Everyone said the New

York media is tough. If you could hoop, you could hoop. But when you're when when your mind is as sharp as it's ever been but your body is still not there, How tough is that for an elite player like yourself? Well, it's tough, man Um. For me, it's like, uh, like you said, I I had these injuries and they just it just kept happying, just like a little nagging. That's like I didn't I never had the you know, tear

the A C L and have to come back. It was just always like I had the chronic ankle sprains and my ankles were swelling up the size of softballs. At night, I could really walk up the stairs, and then I would go to do a layup, and it's like, I'm not even getting any left on my on my on my layups. I can't get to spots where I'm normally you know, used to getting to. And it's kind of like you get that self doubt once, that self doubt preas in you know, um, it's something that I

never really had. I had always been able to all Right, I had a bad game, I'm gonna shake it off. But these these games, you know, started piling up and started messing with you. And then I remember, I remember when I was in New York when d Rose was going through his stuff and he, you know, thought about walking away from the game. And I had already had that thought, you know, several times where it's like, man, like, my my mentor is so messed up that I was

just like, is it even worked it anymore? I'll walk away right now. They can have the money. I don't. I don't care, um, And so you know that that stuff kind of started setting in, and so when when we came up with the resolution of the buyout, I was kind of I was. I was excited because, yeah, I gave up some money, but I just needed a I needed a fresh start. I needed a different, different perspective. So you landed Dallas. UM talked to us. You're back home now, you said, you find that you find the

love for the game again. Um, what what was it like being in Maverick? That was great? You know. Um, I enjoyed planning, playing in Dallas. I enjoyed playing for for Cubes and and playing with Dirt. You know, Dirk is Is. You know, he's a good one. He's a great one. Great dude. UM couldn't play with um, you know, all the guys, just a great group of guys there, and UM, you know, I started to fall in love with the game again. But at the same time, I

still was was getting these injuries, these nagging injuries. UM, that kept me from you know, being who I was. February twenty seventeen, you signed with the Calves, got a chance to play with the game Lebron James. What was that? What was that experience like? It was great? I mean I had played with with Lebron and two Olympics and so um, you know, of course I knew him and and knew what he brought to the table. Um, and

it was great. Man. Um, when I talk about work ethics there, besides Kobe being around him in the Olympics, I mean, Lebron has has the best work ethic that I've ever been around. And then his mind, his basketball mind is unbelievable. You know, I consider myself, you know, a pretty smart human when it comes to the game of basketball and seeing things and understanding things. But his

his mind works differently. And I've seen people talking here, I've heard people talk about it and seeing people talk about it on TV. But until you were actually, you know, there with him day in and day out, going over game plans, um, seeing him call out all the teams plays. You know, it's just on another level. The way he's prepared, how he prepares himself, and um, it's what makes him so good, not not only the physical gifts he has, but you know, his his mental approach to the game

as well. Have you ever, I'm sure you have, But what it thought it? What it would it would have been like you and your prime getting a chance to play with that team and what kind of trouble you guys would have cost for for sure? I mean, um yeah,

I mean it definitely did. Um, And it was that was a tough situation for me because I came, I came in and fed worry, you know, over halfway through the season, and of course Kyrie is there, um and so you know, my my minutes we were very limited, and I'm in a role that I had never played before. You know, I'm used to having the ball in my hands. I'm used to making things happen. And there I was, you know, I was either running you know, pick and roll every now and then, or I was you know,

spotting up in the corner. And um, so I didn't have the greatest you know impact, especially in the finals. I had you know, pretty shitty finals. But even that, I wish, not even being in my prime, just wishing I had a whole season to play that role too, to learn how to to force in that role, you know, to get confident with just you know, being able to come in and knock down shots. You know. Um, you know you guys know those those you know, you came

off the bench a lot. It's tough. It's tough to to sit over there for twenty five minutes and then come in the game and you got to hit you know, shot when it's thrown to you, or you might not get another you might not get enough a shot. And that's what it depends on, you know what I mean. So to me, like you said, it was easy for me, you know, starting and then going to the bench, but knowing that, you know, kind of my job was to

do that. But you're like, again, you're someone who has had the ball in his hands his whole career, making plays and then being able to get your own when you want. So when you're coming into a situation like that with two superstars already great team, you know what I mean, it's just like, damn, at the end of that season, you guys lose to Golden State. Um, did

you know right then it was time? No? UM, I think I was a little discouraged just because of of the role I had, and um again, I had a lot going on in my personal life that I just felt like, Um, between my all the injuries, it's like I felt like I I felt like I was at the point where I couldn't make it through a season without getting hurt. And I didn't know mentally if I could take that anymore. You know, just the impact that

had on me. Um. And so I feel like me stepping away from the game was more you know, mental mentally for me than anything, just because of the place I was at mentally, and I felt like it was it was the best thing to do. Yeah, I think of that member of the USA to two eight Olympics when I'm beating on the way to winning back to the gold medal after defeating Spain and living up to the redeemed team, what was that experience? Like, it's incredible, you know. Um, I think I was only like twenty

four at the time. So um, you know, for me to be able to be on that team, UM with with guys who I grew up watching, like Jason Kidd and you know, team up with Lebron and Mellow CP and d Wade and those guys, Um, it was unbelievable. You know. We had a lot of we had a lot of expectations, um, because it was it was you know, it's been a while since the you know, USA took gold home and so there was a lot of pressure

on us. But at the same time, we felt like we had the best team, you know, UM, hands down and UM put a lot of pressure on ourselves and and coach k did a great job with coaching us UM. But but that experience is one it's probably my I mean, both those gold medals were um, you know, uh meant a lot to me. But but that first one, getting that first one and being the redeem team, I think that meant a lot and definitely my best moment as

as a basketball player. What's the backstory on the vibe Vibe Vito that came out you and Boston beating Hamburgers at the gas station. I don't even remember, honestly though, I don't know who took the video, Probably the way because he always had a camera on him. He stayed with the video video camera the whole the whole trip. And I heard he has a maybe a documentary coming out from that trip, so hopefully that that comes out.

But yeah, it was just I guess a little were we stopped at like a gas station, um, somewhere to get food. We're on a little road trip, and got food, and all of a sudden, that video keeps keeps popping up at every keep keeps circulating every every couple, couple, of months. So you guys ran it back in two thousand and twelve. Um, obviously the games are fun, you guys, there's a lot of pressure. But what is it like

on your downtime. I'm sure that that that's the time where it's it's fun, it's jokes, it's ship talking, it's it's reminiscing any dope stories off the court from those teams either oh eight or two thousand and twelve. Honestly, like the the most the most fun thing about you know, all these trips are the stuff we did, you know, um off the court. Um. You know, we had great meals, We had great, great card games for a little bit of cash, a little little bourey, little guts um. Now.

I remember I remember going through Spain. We were in Barcelona before the London Olympics. It was like me, James, Katie and somebody else and we were riding segways just through Barcelona. It's all on the down the boardwalk, on the beach, you know, just things like that man just just kicking it off the court, um, you know, is some of the best moments I have from from both of those experiences. How challenging were those practices when you

guys had your inner squads. They're unbelievable. Um, I mean you got you got fifteen of the most competitive dudes in the world, or twelve. I guess we only had twelve people, but twelve twelve were the most competitive dudes in the world. You know, on one court. So of course, you know, being led by by by Kobe and Lebron, you know, those practices are gonna be intense. You know how coach k is. You've you've heard how coach k is as a coach, and so man, it's it's you.

The practices were amazing. The shooting games after after practice were competitive. I mean there was there wasn't nothing we didn't compete in when we were when we were together. I mean that's just fast. Mm hmmm. So transitioning to post career managing multiple businesses, but one thing I thought was dope that you own an m m A gym. I'm a huge m m A fan. You own a gym? You just sparring yourself. Obviously you had an early love with wrestling for your mom, But where did your love

from mm A come from? Well, that's kind of bit. I mean I feel like, I mean I've been a fan of mm A for forever, you know, and I think I kind of gravitated towards it because of my wrestling background and you know how big of a part that plays in M m A and so, um, I've always been a fan and I've been training for you know, about eight eight nine years. Um. It's always a good, great way to stay in shape. And once I once

I stopped playing basketball, I picked up my training. Um. You know, I was training probably you know, four or five times a week for a while, but just kept getting hurt saying it, say it was a basketball court. But I gotta I gotta tell myself, I'm not I'm not twenty three anymore. Um, But I just I just love the sport. Um. I love watching it, I love

participating in it. And then you know, we have a bunch of men and women at our gym that are that are fighting in the UFC, and so UH enjoy supporting. Now that's what's up. I'll talk kind of the current landscape and how boxing him M m A are kind of colliding now for these whether you want to call them influencer fights or whatever you want to call him. But you know, the t Woodley's and Nate Robinson, the

Jake Paul Way, the Logan Paul Way. What are your thoughts on kind of m m A intersecting with boxing. You know, it's interesting, you know, because there's a there's a lot of back and forth going on between you know, boxers and mixed martial artists. Um. And and for the most part, you know, a boxer is gonna win a boxing match against the m m A guy, you know, it's just facts. Um. At the same time, if you put a boxer in the m m A uh cage,

they're not They're not going to survive, you know. And so UM, I think it's interesting to see where it goes. I think it's just the beginning of it. And now you have, like you said, you have these celebrity you know, boxing matches and things of that nature that are catching on. And you know, as goofy as you might think they are, as stupid as you might think they are, people tune in, people watch it. I know I watched it. I certainly

watched it. I would love to do one, y'all. Y'all find me opponent you because there they're fun, man, I think it it so it all brings notoriety to the sports you know, and and and brings attention to it and brings press and like like like you guys know all press is good press, tell us and tell us not. So what's the biggest difference between today's game and when

you win your prime? You feel I would have loved to playing today's game, Like in my prime, I can't touch you wide open court, man, I mean, but just it's the it's the it's the confidence, you know. I've talked about it before, Like I played for an old school coach. Coach Sloan hated early shots he did, and I could get away with more than than most people. I think, oh my, you know on my team for sure, where I could come down in the five if I

saw early three, I could take it. But if I miss, you know, two of them in a row, he wouldn't be happy. And now today, like those are all good shots, and these guys just have they have the utmost confidence to do anything out there. And so when you have that, when you have that confidence that you can take no matter what shot you shoot, you know, it's a good shot, that opens up a whole whole new can of worms.

M hear that, who are some of the point guards and players, uh, you know outside of the Lebronze that that that you enjoy following these days, I mean shifts everybody. I still love watching Steph Dame. Um. I like that that young kid job Morant. I think he's gonna be special. I think he's gonna be, you know, really special. Um LaMelo. I think he's gonna be gonna be good. Um. But it's I mean it's the same as as when I was in the league. I mean the point guard position.

You go around the league, there's not a yeah, there's not a point guard where you're you're like, oh, he's maybe one or two where you're like, oh, they shouldn't be starting or they're not a starting point guard. For the most part, everybody's a dog. Everybody's a dog. Anybody out there you see yourself to see that you reminds of a young d will mm hmm. Everybody says, friend Van Fleet, y'all just look alike, he ain't big enough, he ain't big enough, tall enough. You know. I feel

like it's shifted. I mean that's that's the biggest thing, is the prototypical point guard. When I was you know, that big point guard is kind of it's kind of gone away. You know, it's more about you know, being quicker, more athletic. You know, there's not the post up game. Isn't it as as prevalent as it was when I was playing, And so it's just a different game. It's a different game. We're gonna put you on the spot right here. Still we're still obviously you haven't even started

training camp is around the corner if that hasn't started already. Uh, your East in your West picks saying that all teams stay healthy, which probably will happen. But if everyone stays healthy, who do you got coming out of the East and you got coming out of the West. That's that's a no brainer. That's no The Lakers in the in the nets, right and who do you like it? Like? If it goes down seven games, who you got if they're if they're all healthy, that's against against the next in lines.

I feel like I can't I could. It's like betting against Brady. You can't bet against Brady and I can't bet against Lebron. Very true, even though it's tough because you get a healthy Katie man, they're loaded healthy Katie, healthy Kyrie healthy James. Offensively, they're bad offensively better but I think defensively and I know how, I know how Lebron locks in them. Yeah, I'm going Lakers because he's in the playoff. Who y'all got I mean, I'm really I'm right there with you. You mean to me, it's

obviously health, it's going to be important. It's very hard to go against Lebron. But then again, it's very hard to go against a healthy Brooklyn Nets team. And if Kyrie is locked in and James is getting on all cylinders, man like, that's the best offensive treer I think we've ever seen in the history of basketball, hands down. So and what's and what's the scariest thinking about all both these teams now is none of these teams are called

coming together mid season. They're getting training camp together. So it's gonna be scary to see how how these teams come out from the jump. If you had to choose one dark horse, a dark horse, who would you have, I'm gonna say the Warriors. I'm not mad at that. I'm not mad at I mean, if Clay is healthy, if if if Steph is I mean, you see what he was doing towards the end of last year. Um, you gotta you can't forget a about them, and they're gonna make a trade. Wise, they're gonna make a trade.

I'll just but I think they'll make a mid season or trade deadline move to to put them right in position. Who's going to Wiggins? Wiggins? Who knows? Who knows? It depends on what you get back. I mean they they got a lot of pieces too, good young pieces, which is gonna help them if they really make a move. But been a doe pass interview, we're down to quick hitters. Man, first thing that comes to your mind, spit it out. Toughest player matchup in your career? M hm ah or

not even I wouldn't even say tough is. Maybe favorite is early in my career with Sam Cassell. People don't know how cold saying was. Man, Man, they don't. I used to have so many problems with him in the post. He was so crafty. Even though you were bigger and stronger, he still got that work in the post. And we'll talk to you the whole time. Oh school, y'all, fella, y'all, fellow.

Top five point guards of all time? Oh oh jesus, wow, magic mm hmmm, Oscar Robinson, Okay, John Stockton, m oh geez, dang, this is tough. Mm hmmm. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say, Steph put you on the spot. It's all the smart there's one. It's like, all my I can't even think right now. I don't like this. Um, this is the something you're supposed to tell. Yes, Jakid, we put Jakid? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta go. I'm like, why can't I Why can't I think? Right now? I just gotta be ja kids

favorite album of all time, no skips. You could listen from front to back All eyes on me. Nice classic. Yes. Indeed, if you can sit course side to any game in history, what game would it be? Oh? Oh, I'm gonna say the Finals game? Were Ray hit that that three in the corner in Miami in Miami against the first Because that's all what I can think of right now? Yeah? All right, Next up, you plus four of your current teammates throughout your career, plus a six man to build

a super team. Who would you who? Who would you pick from your career that you've played with? These are these are prime? Yeah? Yeah, they're all in their prime and you're the point guard. Well that damn I'm gonna say me. Um, Joe, KG, Dirk, that's five. You're forgetting one and booze. You left Braun off? Oh shoot, I forgot I always playing with him for like five months. That's why I ain't thinking. I'm thinking of like I'm thinking. I'm thinking, now you feel the guys you really went

in with. I feel that. Yeah, like who I was like playing with Braun is definitely there. And then um, can I get seven because IM gonna put Kyrie on there too? Yeah? There you go. So so so you KG, Paul Pierce, Joe, Dirk, Lebron and kyr Rouf. That's a mob Elevate team. Last question and your answer to this question, just remember you have to help us with your answer. Who do you want to see on all the smoke? Oh guys, have your hat on. We only had nine.

We won't have one who Woodley t Woodeny Connor will be fun. So it's crazy. I don't know if I can help you out with that one. So it's crazy. Hey, so I've been working on some My motherfucking college roommate who played football U c l A shoutout audioitar As his manager. So I've been on this motherfucker like, man, let's get it. But it's always kind of round his fights and then you know, he's kind of been on a on a on a downwards. Who just I don't know if it's good. I don't know if it's good.

But I've been working on Connor for a minute, man, so hopefully we're able to get him. Yeah, but y'all bring it, y'all bring in full circle. So it's like you know about touch every Yeah, you touch everything, so it's like, yeah, for sure, all right man with d we appreciate your time. Great catching up with you with a big fanning while you play man and the glad you took some time to join us. Best of luck with the fam business. That's a wrap all the smoke

season three. Man, we're here you castes on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the I Heart Platform Black Effects. We'll see y'all next week. He appreciate you. Appreciate you, bro,