Deon Taylor | Ep 110 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

I'm a'm part of the team right now. So when I look up to in the space who is continuing to open up doors, breakdown walls, raise the bar in this entertainment space that he's come for in the Hollywood movie space, Welcome to the show. Dion Taylor. All right, man, man, what's up? Brother? Right now? I'm here, but here we finally got you here, man, We appreciate it. How do we meet? I don't recall how we met? Do you

remember how we met? In passing through Bobby? Might have been through Bobby first Bobby Jackson, and then we just some something in that world some of the King's world. Yeah. I got a chance to meet Dion, and uh, you know my transition from basketball, I wanted to be in the content creation space TV movies production and Dion was

in it. And someone who had a similar background. You know, just kind of started taking me under his wing and tell me about projects, let me come and shadow home and really kind of a lot of people talk about, you know, let me show you how to do it, let me show you this, but Dion is someone who actually does it. Man. So I had a lot of appreciation for you and your wife Rock saying and and and the way you guys have always welcomed me around

things and and taught me the game. So I appreciate that. Man. Always family. Man. Yeah, we're gonna start us off just like this, right, That's how we gonna start it off to getting to the money. Alright, what say, what roles you out for me in your movies coming out? I know you got all kind of movies coming out. What roles do you have for me to go? We gotta we gotta talk about it, man, but I will tell you this, I will have a role for you both of them. Obviously. You know, were getting ready to do

the Peeweek Kirkland story. Man shout out to Peewee man uh to live in legendent legend of two games. But yeah, definitely man, next summer New York. You gotta be there, man, I'm there. Uh, let's get it started. Uh, born in Chicago, grew up in Gary, Indiana. Um, talk to us about your upbringing, your family dynamic, and uh what was like growing out out there? I mean it was it was

a tough time at that time in Gary. Yeah. Well, well you know, people that don't know Gary, you know, probably know the history of Gary, which was for a long time. Gary was the murder capital for a very long time. But at the center that it's just good people, you know what I mean. You don't really know the environment you in when you're in it, you know, it's it's it's later when you leave you'll be like, damn. It was like that. It was like that. But I

was actually blessed man. My tired family is still there, but I was blessed enough man for my mom at an early age to be like she getting me and my brother out of there, you know what I mean. So it's an interesting story my mom actually, Um, I was playing ball there. I went to West Side play au basketball with Glenn and you know the whole thing. Man was living my life there and um, you know, low income housing, project housing, same old thing. And my

mom ended up playing the numbers. Uh, my ninth grade year and and one of the numbers one thirty, and bought a car and drove us to California. That's the real story, man. She packed us up, packed the dog up. She was like, y'are not gonna be here. But that was after you know, we had one of my cousins went to jail for life, murder, um, a bunch of

you know, just violence man all around. And like I said, you don't really understand the violence when you in it, but then when you remove yourself, you're like wow, like, yeah, you can't go to that project, can't go to that side of the street. You know, mean you just kind of know what it is. And I went to California. A coach hooked me up out there. It was like, you know, you're gonna play here. Got to Cali. I think my ninth grade year was like this, ain't it.

I had never been around like white people, you know, different nationalities. I went back. Yeah, I went back, and uh, when I got back this time, I was like I gotta go back there. I was like I gotta go back out there, just because you know, I understood after leaving and coming back that you know that world was different, So California was a blessing to me. Man, But I'm back in Gary all the time. Just was there, just was in Chicago for the last seven weeks shooting the

finale of Power. That was dope to just be here, to go back home and see my sister, hang out with everybody and be back in the environment I came from. But don't just breeze over what you were doing out there. You said you shot the finale of Power. Talked to us a little bit about that. Now you can't give us much. But who's whose finale was it? Man? It's Tommy Man. Tommy's back. Man. Shout out to Joseph coor Man, m you shout out the fifty cent Joseph Cord, that

whole team. Man. But yeah, I was driving on the freeway man um three months ago and the phone went off in his fifty and I'm like, what's going on. He's like, you want to come shoot the finale Power? And I'm like, uh, let me think about it. Like no, I'll be right there. But it was great man, great show, great people. And that was my first time doing television. So for me going into television, you know from a from a cinematic standpoint, being a film director, it was

an interesting play for me. Man. But then I understand later why Joseph and why fifty wanted me there, because the finale is always like the big events, you know what I mean. So I was blessed enough to be able to shoot that show in a cinematic way, in other words, being able to hold scenes, you know, intros, outros, and normally TV is choppy, but the finale felt like a movie. We're gonna get into your process and your

story and all that kind of ship. But do you ever just sit back and pinch yourself, like, damn, no one wanted to let me in and now just produced excuse me? Directed that the Power finale? And I have more projects than I can ever imagine being pulled so many different ways, Like did you obviously you wanted to get here, but did you ever picture it really happening?

I did? Man? You know, I think that's what's really cool about being a dreamer, you know what I mean, Like when you really are out here and you really going through the nose, you know what I mean? And you know we didn't been through some real ship, man, you know what I mean? And I think that's why my perspective is a lot different than a lot of people. Like we were told no for years and years and years. We were told not good enough, we were told that's

not a good idea, you know. And I think through basketball and coming from where I came from, perseverance has always been part of our DNA, just like the two of you, you know what I mean. Like we've been told no so many times. We've had the lights off, you know what I mean. We've had the moments with no shoes. So you somebody in Hollywood be like, no, I don't think we want you right now. You're like, all right, We'll said somebody else over there body, you

know what I mean. So you always are looking for another angle, And um yeah. Now now when I look back, man, think about some of the things that we've accomplished, you know, from an independent standpoint, you know, we're almost two hundred million dollars in box office receipts um independent independent twelve movies. It's been great, man. But I don't I don't never I'm still kind of figuring out, like how do I get better? I'm still trying to figure out how do I,

you know, do better? Than what I've been doing, you know what I mean. So I never looked back and be like, damn, we killed that, you know what I mean. I'm more like, now, what can I do now? Because I still haven'tgotten where I want to beat, you know what I mean. So you know when you I feel like when you look back, that's when you crash. Yeah, talk about playing basketball professionally in the NBA Entertainment League,

blue chip basketball prospect um. Man, I mean basketball in my life until I just hurt my knee, so I'll be back in January. I no, it's my it's my life. Man. I was. I was, like I said, I was blessed enough man to to find that sport. You know, for a lot of people. Man, while I speak so Holliya by basketball is because it's a it's a passport to

life for a lot of us. I never would have been able to go see any parts of the world growing up, or get free shoes, or go on trips on buses or you know what I mean, get the backpack in the sweatsuit. But basketball provided all of that, you know what I mean. So it becomes a fraternity. Whether you made to the NBA or played overseas like me or not. It's like it's a fraternity once you really play at that level. But um, it was great.

Man had to you know with San Diego State ended up getting the contract to play overseas, was in Europe for a while, played in Germany. Um, and that's really where I found film. Uh, in East Germany Man, the middle of the middle of the winner and slow up to the door, and you know, all you could do was practice and then go home. And I remember sitting there and at the time Roxand who was now my wife, was my girlfriend, now my producing partner. She was sending

me movies and uh, I would watch those movies. And you know this before Netflix and all y'all young, see y'all young, before all this, before all the digital age. So I would uh start watching that's right. So I would start watching the making up, and uh, I became fascinated with how films were being made versus watching them. And uh that's when I got the bug. Man. I remember coming back and um at the time, my brother Ethan was playing for the Atlanta Falcons, and I was like,

and I got an idea for a movie. Out of everybody, I told the idea too. He was the one that like, man, that's really good. Yeah, and then I did. Everybody started being like a movie a movie. And then before I know it, man, I was writing, I wasn't going back overseas, and I was like literally became fascinated with film. And that's how it started. So that was the turning point right there. Obviously we know it's a how what was the process you start writing? Walk us through your process. Now, Okay,

I played basketball my whole life. I feel like I'm done with that because I have a new passion. Talk to us about that journey. Well, you gotta be a little bit crazy, right, but that's what that's with everything. You gotta be a little bit off your rocker to you know, jump off of bridge like I got an idea, but then you find out later in life, like, man, that's what you're supposed to be. Uh, no experience, no film school. East Germany became my film school, watching those movies,

watching those DVDs, doing that type of energy. But the process was very simple. Man, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. So the first script I wrote was on a me tablet. So I wrote the whole movie out like a book. And then I was around pitching it to people and the people was like, man, that's pretty good. Some people I made you crazy. I made you trying to make win them little movies. I was like, you're trying to make win them little movies?

You know, you do all of that. And then eventually that became like a three or four year run where you know, you ran out of money. You then came to Hollywood a bunch of times. You'd knocked on every door, you know, and people have told you no. You know, I became a professional meter you have you have you ever met a professional meet? I mean you meet people for fun, like you just hey, you want to meet, like just sit there and talk to people over and

over again. And didn't. At that point. It was like we had the door slammed on us so many times and everybody kept saying no to us so many times that we had no choice but to tell ourselves yes. And then one dude, this is how my whole life changed. This guy who was actually a bad dude, bad track record, terrible person, found out all this beast about this due but I got the best advice in the world from him. I had exhausted myself, man, we were like, I had quit.

I was done. I had the same movie that had been pitching for three or four years. And he was like, you know, ain't nobody gonna make that movie for you? Right? And I was like, you know, I mean that man, you know damn well, we're trying to meet you out here trying to do it. And he was like, the only way you're gonna get your movie made if you make it yourself and I and I had never heard that because I was not a film person, So I was like, what do you mean. He was like, do

you know what the producer does? And I was like, yeah, the producer, they make the movie. They get to that. He said, the producer produces the money. And I was like, oh, they produced the film. And that's when I went, Yo, this is crazy. So he was like, steady, you running around asking these people to make your film with your hat in your hand, Go find your money and make

your own film. And that completely changed my life. That was two thousand seven, and I was like the whole game changed at that point, because now I'm not asking you to make a movie. Now I'm trying to find an investor to give me the money to make the

film and that's a completely different animal. And that's what happened. Man, I think two thousand and ten, two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, I was blessed enough to meet Robert Smith, Um, who you know a lot of people now know, the richest African American man in the world. And Um, I met him and he asked me two questions, where do you see yourself in five years? And what do you want to be? And I thought to myself the first time I met him, like, Yo, this dude tripping.

You know what I mean? Like, no one asked those questions for real. And I'm like, you know, explain to my sifment I want to be. I want to be a label in an age, I want to I want to be a boutique film company, and I want to be one of the best directors out and I want to do it differently than anybody else. He was like, what does that mean differently? I said, I want to do all the genres. And at the time, you know, that was my mentality and that's what I was after.

And I hadn't seen any black filmmakers during that time do horror, comedy, thrillers, any of that, and Uh, I didn't realize how unique that was until I went down the path. Who are your film influences? Spike Lee, John Singers in etcetera? And specific films are song or artist? Who inspired you to? Who expired you to? MoU John? You know, I knew John very well us in Peace Incredible man. Um, I only got to know him for a short time. I met John in a very weird way.

I met John at an event and uh, I had ended up talking about a couple of films that I was trying to put together at the time, and Free Agents was one of those films. And I had just finished doing a movie called Supremacy rehearsal Ali and Danny Glover, and I was getting washed with that film. Man like, we had made this incredible movie and we could not find a distribution for at home. For I'm like, man, what is going on? He pulled me to the side, was like, man, this is just what the business is

for you as a black filmmaker. And Um, a couple of months later, I was like, I don't want to do no more serious films. I would have did this movie Meet the Blacks. And John was the first person to call me Opening night and meet the blacks and sent me a picture of the ticket. He was like, nigga, just the funniest shit out of sea. And I remember just being like, damn, this is crazy. Got on the phone with him and you know, and kept in touch

with him. But he was always a great person in terms of like not always, but over the course of time he would always pop up at the right time to say something great, you know what I mean. And but John is a huge influence because I love what he was about. But I really really love you know, I love the the branding of Tyler Perry obviously, you know, doing in his own way, building his own thing. But

I'm a giant Stephen Spielberg fan, man um. You know, I think Spielberg is incredible just for the simple factor when I told you earlier, like I love the fact that, you know, although he's not a black man, I love that he jumped genres and did it the right way. So you think of color per Bowl, think of et you know what I mean, Like these are completely different films and Jaws, you know, And I just love that. Man.

I've always been like, man, I'm gonna be ever to be that prolific as a black filmmaker in the space. What is your If someone were to say, like, DM, what's your style of directing or filmmaking, what would you say? Oh? Um, overcoming adversity. Um, That's what every film I've made is about. So if you think about supremacy, is a black family trying to overcome white supremacy. Think about traffic, it's a young lady trying to overcome Um, even to the intruder, right,

intruder is a family trying to overcome evil. So I love adversity, and I love you know, I love twists and turns. But I'm not a twist person. I'm not trying to set my career on every time I make a movie it's a twist. I just want to make great content. Man. So when you go to movies and you spent twenty dollars, you feel like, damn, I got something good. That's far Who were some of that? Your your favorite people? You've been blessed to work a lot

of amazing people. Who are some of your favorite people to work with? Oh? Man, Um, it's a big list. It's a big one. I love Michael Eally. We've done a few movies with him before. Um, I've been very blessed to be to work with Hillary Swink, Naomi Harris um I was you know what was kind of cool

man for me as a filmmaker. Danny Glover was like, you know, he came at a time and these are significant things I'm talking about because these are times where you gotta remember, I'm not a director, but I'm trying to direct the biggest parts of that is people believe in enough in you to to do a movie with you, or a coach believing in you to give you a shot to play right. We're talking about NBA too, right, Like, man, I'm really good, but can somebody give me a chance?

You know what I mean? Acting is like that. You need somebody to be like, damn man, that's dope what you're doing. And I'm gonna jump in your film and if you mess it up, you mess it up, but I'm gonna get in. So Hollywood still today, I'm dealing with that where people still be like, let me see his work. He's like, come on, man, like you serious. I've seen guys that have done a three minutes short and Brad Pitt in it. You know what I mean,

You're gonna question me but that's the business. But I think Danny Glover always gonna be at an all time high for me. He jumped in the first time I did it. Uh, interesting enough man rehearsal ali Um, you know, before the Oscars and all of that, he was fantastic as well. Man, he came in and and and played a part of Supremacy that was huge. We ended up talking becoming friends on that set. And then after that happens that movie happens. Um they're shooting a really cool

movie and um the Bay Area called Kicks. And I remember the producer called me and was like, man, what do you think about Rearsallee, Like, we really want him to be the leading this movie, I said, And y'all crazy, like this the best. You know. I was mad because I didn't get to use them how I wanted to use him in my film, you know what I mean. I was like, you gotta get him. And he goes on and dust Kicks and just watching the trajectory after

Kicks was moon like, you know what I mean? And the rest is you know that man's history and what he's become. But I think that's what's kind of cool about films that you get to see people, you know, jumping stuff and and see them on the ground two and then see them become you know what I mean. Hillary Swank was a little bit like that where she came and lent her two oscars to Fatale, you know what I mean. I remember I was like, Yo, you gotta do this movie. It's like I got this guy

named Michael Eally. She was like, Michael who. I said, Michael Eily. You don't know who Michael Eli is. He got the blue eyes and she's like, no, I don't know. So I see him a piece. Oh he's gorgeous. I was like, yeah, but that's what's really dope. She came, you know what I mean. Naomi Harris had finished, she didn't want to act anymore, you know what I mean. She came and jumped in. Tyrese is one of my favorites, you know what I mean? These are people, man, everyone.

If you see anybody I've ever worked with, they become family. Um, just because we don't ever know when we're gonna get to do it again. So I'm the last personal set like we're doing now, get get over you know. It's like, man, like, I'm just honored that you here and respect that you here. And you know, I feel like every time I touched a camera or a movie set it might be the last time based on the fact that how we got here and every time I feel like I got lucky,

you know what I mean. So anyways, that's my list. Evolution of television from when you were growing up to the present day. It didn't It didn't change, right a lot. Man when I was when I was younger, Man, like we had t G I F Thank God is Friday. That was the A team that was that was night Rider. Um yeah, man, I'm a I'm like, you know, TV used to be different man, Mr T and and Undercats. You had he Man, you know what I mean, Like um Lionel Man. I mean I remember I always just rushed.

I remember I remember Batman the cartoon first started. I remember I would rush want to be like that and this like you, it was like a movie to you. But now it's at changed, man, now they you know, I think TV has changed in an incredible way based on the fact that it's now molded to spectrums of people, so it no matter who you are, there's something for you. Television used to be, you know, one size fits all,

you know what I mean. So if you got a team, you know, it was the black dude, and there was the white dude, and there's the Jewish guys. Like that was it, you know what I mean. But now it's like you if you're you know, black, there's some black shows, you white, his white shows, if you gave his gay shows. It's like it's a plethora of things. And then every now and he gets something to come. But I also think TV is transformative. Um so it's like the Wire.

You know, if you remember the Wire, what that it during that time and how incredible that was. I was like before it's time, you know what I mean? Um But yeah, I think TV is gonna keep changing and becoming whatever we wanted to be there. Look at this, we don't y'all want TV. Matt Barns and Jack on TV. I'm like, Yo, this is crazy. I mean, you've got a taste obviously, you know, finding your route in your foundation and filmmaking. You've crossed over a little bit and

done television. Obviously they're a huge difference. Do you see yourself doing anymore television or you No? I think I think it's great, man. I think the space is great. I love that you could just kind of do it and and and and be done, if that makes sense. Film film, you live with it, man. I'm still living with traffic, you know what I mean, Like, I'm still figuring out where that's gonna go. You know, next year, what network it will be on or you know, Like

film is a different beast. Television is kind of dope, man, because you know, you do it, they're gonna air it and then it lives there. That's it, you know what I mean. Film Man, you make a movie independently, you like you like praying to God it opens, you know what I mean. You're laying in the bed the night it comes out, you worry about what the critics go. Like it's just like it's a whole world that goes

with it, you know what I mean. And uh, television not fine, It's like it's it's it's it's very therapeutic because you get to do the craft that you love. But at the same time, I can leave it there being told no a lot obviously made you want to start building your own Talk to us about the launch of the Hidding Empire Film Group. Man, Hidden Empire Um Film Group. Man like It's just a film company made a people that just had dreams. Shout shout the team, out,

Shout out to rock sand who's here. Oh mam my brother. Um. Our entire team is just made of underdogs, man. Like, we are all the people that you know, like you, We're the people that was told no. We're the people that didn't have an opportunity. We didn't go to film school. We just love film. We just love movies. And we was like, Yo, we're gonna be rebels and do that ship. And uh, we got here by number one being passionate, more passionate than most of the people we ever meet.

You know, we've We've had twenty hour days on movie sets. We've had twenty two hour days on movies sets where people have pulled the plug and walked off, and I'm like, we can't never come back, So I gotta get it all. I gotta get it all man, you know what I mean. So we just live in that world man to where like I just told you a moment ago, everything we do we have to do it because we don't know if there will be another chance to do it. So we try to lead by example in terms of like

hidden Empire represents people that I like to call our light. Um. We feel like what you put into the universe is what you get back out. So we try to just lead with kindness, UM, lead with integrity, you know, make sure that our words are buying when we say we're gonna do something. But more importantly, man, if you get on the set or a movie with us, like we're gonna give you every thing we have. They didn't have

to drag me off set a few times. Man, where you know I'm like delirious because I didn't shot so much, or you know, did nineties setups in the day, or because like I said, it's it's he's been. The film is like the super Bowl, right, So pre production is like the season, so you're like getting ready everything is, you know, you're putting all this stuff together and then it's like the day you say, action is game time.

Like that's like it's everything in one So it's the super Bowl to me, so it's like you gotta win, right. And we were just talking on the way over here that out of twelve and thirteen films, doing this for almost fourteen years, I've never had one reshoot. Like every movie you've ever seen that was it? Like that three million dollar movie? You know, and people don't know this, you know, like these movies are under five million dollars that we're making that an opening number one and number

two in the world, you know what I mean. Like I've never had a budget over ten million dollars. Um, I've never had a budget of nine min dollars. But but your returns are crazy, returns are crazy. Um, the movies are great, you know what I mean. But it also puts you where you're like, Okay, I'm done with that, Like I know how to make those types of films now, I'm ready to go here, you know what I mean.

So Hidden Empires, Uh, that's my life right now, man, But kind of explain the business side of that for people don't really understand. Okay, so you have the Hidden Empire group. Why did you form that? Obviously you were told no and you couldn't get distribution. To explain a little bit of the business side. So independent film is um studios make movies and then they own movies. Right, So your work for hire period, no matter how you

want to dice it up or cut it. If you go make Marvel Marvel movie, you're gonna pay you a bunch of money. You're gonna get a little bit probably if you're great, you're gonna get some back in and then it's over. It's theirs forever, forever. Independent film, you're the studio. So you make the movie, you create the I P. You can then license that I P to a studio to put out, but that's your product forever. So if you can do that at a high clip, then you become an owner, right. And there's a big

difference between a player and uh and the owner. Right. So, and here's the thing. Outside of the black culture, this is common. This is common for Jack Nicholson to own I P s or you know, or Christopher Nolan to own a giant portion of or James Cameron to own you know what I mean. It was very unique to us. When Tyler Perry came in, it was like he gonna do it this way and slap it that way and create that he's a billionaire. And what we're trying to do is say, it's not militant to be an owner

of your own brand, right, It's not. You're not. Yeah, it's spos. It's cool, you know what I mean? Like I could work with anybody I want to work with. I'm not saying I don't want to work with you. We're just saying there are times that we'll do one for you, two for them, and then we'll do one for us. And the idea is that we need the studios. We want to work withever. You have to play well in the sandbox. This is about everyone working together, not I'm just doing this is my thing and hoarding it.

M So we're trying to be that breakout company that's like, yo, you can do this, own it as African American business people. But at the same time we can also partner and work with studios or I love being worked for highre. I've been in a couple of times, you know what I mean. It's great because I get to go over there and play with those toys and make those films and do something prolific and great for a studio, and then I get better and then I go make something

for myself. Yeah, I want it. Directing your first film film, Dead Tom Jesus Doug in The Crazy Dead tone Man was the first one. That's my film school man. Shout out to Brian Hooks who taught me how to actually get a movie up and get a movie made. Um. Dead tone was crazy Man. That's the movie I wrote, was writing trying to write coming out of coming out of Germany. That was the movie. It was just a

great horror film, man classic. Five kids go up to a big, big mansion and at the time, like they prank, call a stranger and the stranger calls back and he's crazy. Started six didn't come back and it was great, Um, great film man. But that film taught me everything I needed to know from financing two uh, legal issues to you name it. That film and that was the hardest film to ever make and the worst film ever made. But it was the first film and it's the film

that I love the most. But it's where you didn't know nothing, you know what I mean. You didn't know how to do an investment, You didn't know how to deliver a movie. You didn't know who to sell it to. So that became a seven year project. You got it done. Uh, you struck gold with Meet the Blacks. Um, you did House next Door Meet the Blacks two, which I was involved in. Jack came and kicked in on the set.

But I think what's even doper about that? As you were able to bring Cat Williams and Mike Epps back together on one screen. There was obviously a little bit of a turmoil between them, but tell us about your ability to get both them and then just the process of making that and and and successive classic too. Great job, man, Thank you for that man. Mike and Cat was that

was a unique situation. So Mike had did Meet the Blacks one, which was, you know, a hit, an independent hit movie at open number four in the world independent, and we released that movie by ourselves. Correct me from wrong. You shot that in your neighborhood, right, The shot that where I lived around the corner from the house by our house. The twins were little about the twins on set. We're in Sack for some reason. He's like, come by, she live around the corners. Oh yeah, we're just shooting

here the around the corner from his house. Whole productions. Yeah, Mike and Cat were great. Mike was already there. Um I went to Cat because Cat was gonna originally be in the first Meet the Blacks. And so when we came back around with two, I knew that there was a little bit of an energy between the two of them. But didn't know what that was. No one really does. Let me just hear that. And I went to Cat

and he was like, man, I'm with it. And then I remember calling Mike and being like, man, he was like, I'm with it, and and never. It was like two months, and I remember the first day was Gary Owen, Little Duval, Brecia Webb, Michael Blackson. We was doing a table read in Atlanta, and I had been talking to Mike for a few months, had been talking to Cat, but they had not talked to each other or being around like

at all. So at this particular table we was gonna be the first time Mike and Cat was gonna come into the room and read the script, and uh, everything, dude, ball was crazy. Like ever, it was like tense for some odd reasons. I was just like and Mike got there first, and uh, we were all waiting, and obviously Cat was like running a little bit behind, remember getting the text, and I'm like, Okay, he's gonna come in here.

And Cat came in and I remember like the whole room was like and then Mike was like, what's up, nigga? And then Cat was like, what's up, nigga? And it was just It was from that point I was like whoa and it just was over man. And I would tell you this, man, what I think is fantastic about both of them as their geniuses, And um, I don't think either one of them get the credit that they obviously need. And I'm being honest now, man, Like you

don't know Mike that's been doing that. You don't know Cat has been selling out arenas arena not not venues, arenas and you know those two man. To me, you know, I was blessing up a better work with Cat, Mike, Paul Mooney, Charlie Murphy, you know what I mean. And and when you start getting into that category, to me, man, it ain't but a few more you can name where you're like, oh yeah, you know, like who I mean, Cat is, you know, and Mike They're up there period.

You know. They gotta be in your top seven, if not your top two, you know what I mean? So uh, they were great, man, And they killed that movie every day they worked together. They were funny, they the jokes were great. The charter is great. And it was the first time I got to work with Cat and I fell in love with him, man, because I had never seen anyone that passionate about film. He was really good man.

And uh he would come to set when we weren't shooting and bring food and you know it's there, ain't out like no, the night cat out there in the trailer like yo, come get some wings. I was like, this is crazy, but it was a blessing man, and um, yeah, that was a great film to do, and I wanted to do part two. I didn't even have to do part two, but I wanted to do part two because that's our franchise that we own that, you know what I mean, Regardless of what anybody thinks, we own our

own comedy horror franchise. And a couple of years from now, I already know what's gonna happen to phone a ring and people like me when they already asked for three. But we'll figure that out later. I think to you, I don't think you guys take enough credit for creating that family environment. Like you said, he wanted to come back. I've been on sets before where it's as doing your job done. You don't see that person until they shoot

a few days later, you know what I mean. And you guys create a family environment where obviously work is gonna get done. But when the cameras cut, motherfuckers, they're talking ship to each other, laughing, joking, having a great time. You're I'm like, damn, they should be filming this. But it's just like it's just it's just to take And that's the environment you guys created. It's real people. Man.

That's how I think. That's how every movie said should be because if you really are in a creative environment, that's creative, right, it can't be creative when I just came here, I've seen music playing, somebody over there dropping it like it's hot somebody. That's the environment I want to be in. I want to be in a world where man, yeah, because you're not afraid to fail, right, Like that's my model man, Like you know, acting and directing as ugly, you know what I mean. Part of

it is like let's try something. If it don't work, all right, do it again. Like we're trying to be great, man, Like nobody got all the answers, especially when you're doing independent movies. Man, here's what's crazy. We're working on four and five minut dollar movies eight millton nine mint dollars, like Black and Blue with Naomi Harrison Tyres like we was going hard on that film, you know what I mean, only to look up to make a great film that I still feel like should have been nominated for a

lot of stuff. Um. But then when you look across the boarding you and you see that the other guys that are making these other movies that got fifty million, seventy million, sixty Yeah, you know what I mean. You like, but we have more fun. We have more fun and made a better film, you know what I mean. But you know, it's kind of like that creative process to be able to do films like that and everyone. You know.

I talked to Naomi Harris once every two weeks, but because of that film, you know what I mean, Because she's like, yeah, we gotta like you gotta figure something out. And Tires is my brother. I talked to him once a week or twice a week, you know what I mean. Like if it's nothing but a What's app for a text just to check in. But it is a family environment, man, and that's how it's supposed to be. Um. Because you know that big money is gonna come knock on one day.

You don't have to tell us. But if someone came to you with a hundred million dollar budget. Do you have a hundred million dollar idea movie idea? Boy? Do I no? No, no, you know what, man, I do. I have a few ideas like that. Um, I tell you what I would love to do, Man, I would love to get into either the d C space or the Marvel space, you know, just for one of them things. Man, you know what I mean, there's some cool stuff coming up. Man, Like right now. I know they got like the Captain America.

They said, it was like I didn't know I was watching something the other day. There's sixteen hundred Marvel characters. Sixteen hundred, so they could give us one man. They give us one right, give us man, give us one man. You're set to direct Freedom Ride based on the historical life of yours, Congressman John Lewis, You've uh praise a great team. You put a great team together. Talk to us about that project and and what drew you to it, John Lewis, UM Good Trouble, Good Trouble one of the

most iconic figures we've ever had. Um So, this story was brought to me um uh by company called Indie Company and uh Matt Rhodes and Kim Leftford and Cameron Mitchell brought me this project. And when I got the project, I didn't realize at the time that attorney Ben Crump was attached and the estate was attached, and uh, man, I was just honored, you know, we had that. I've been doing a lot of work as an activist for a very long time, Me and my wife and my partners,

like we all are on the ground daily. And we led to George Floyd March in Sacramento, which you know, broke the record out there. I think we had sixty three thousand people showed up and then we got eight hundred and ninety thousand people to vote through bo Vote. Already shot the John Lewis No, No, it's getting ready to come up. So what ends up happening is they bring the project to me and I'm like, it's time to do it, you know what I mean. Like, so

finished the script about two or three weeks ago. Uh. The ideas to be in production here November December, Atlanta and probably New Orleans. Yeah, I'll be right there are definitely gonna be but that that but that movie, man, Like you know, as we talked about film, we laugh about different things like that movie. Right there is the one, man where you know, when someone bestows that type of honor on you to do that, that's when you got it.

You gotta shut everything down. As a matter of fact, I just did a thing a couple like a week ago, Like that's it like for me for the rest of the year, Like that's cool to do this, that all that's great, But this is the one, man, like, we don't get to redo this. And and most of the times, man, when we get to make historic films like that, we don't get to make them. Someone else is telling our story.

Somebody's telling our story and they and they watching the story, you know, making it be whatever this might be or that might be. I wanted I want this one. When I'm done, there should be no question and how a biopic should be done. There should be no question on what it meant to have that story as a filmmaker, you know what I mean. So this's the one for me, man, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna give everything I have to

make it right. There's a lot writing on that. Being a former athlete, is I mean, is there pressure in spaces like this, Like what kind of what comes with that. I mean you could, like you said, this is a you don't you don't get a chance to make it something like this again, this is a one and done. A lot is going to be writing on it. Do you it's a pressure that comes with that, or it's a good feeling, like what is your mind set with

It's a great feeling, man, I think that. Look, you always nervous, you know, planning the find those playing the championship, whatever it is. You're gonna be nervous. But you've been doing this your whole life. What you make love to you, you make love to it, right, That's right? Man. So I feel the same. I feel the same way. Like there's I'm not scared at all, Like I'm like I'm ready. I'm like, I'm more excited about it, Like I'm like, yo, bring But that also comes from me being ready to

do this, you know what I mean? Like there has been situations year ago where I'm like, damn it, why I didn't get that? But now when I look back, I was like, man, you weren't ready for that ship, you know what I mean. You weren't ready to do no movie like that at that time, Like six years ago, I wasn't ready to do Black and Blue, you know what I mean? Or you know, But but my work and my effort in terms of getting better and working

at it. It's like sports. Now you're like, oh, I can shoot that, I can play with them, you know what I mean? So I feel like now I can play with anybody, you know. I mean similar getting too the NBA. I mean a lot of people come into both of our spaces talented, but you don't understand the space until you have some years in it. Period. Oh, you've done the reps right right. You gotta do the work, man,

you gotta do the work. They can't, they can't. I've seen a few people get a couple of hundred minu dollar movies and you see they weren't ready for that. You've seen it. You've been to like, damn, who did this? You know what I mean? Like how they do that? Like, No, they weren't ready for that. And that's not a knock against nobody. It's just the fact that you got to really do the work because when they when they when the cameras and the lights come on, the actors show up,

have you been here? Do you know what you need? To be doing period, no matter if you got a million dollars or twenty million dollars. So that's kind of approach it that way, like, man, I'm I'm more than ready. Man. It's dope. You have some more up and coming stuff. You told us some stuff off camera. Um, but talk

to us a little bit about free agents. I think when you told me about this idea and then I saw that you attached fifty two, and I'm like, this ship is about to be inside fifty man, shout out fifty on the show. We almost had him locked in, but he was too busy this round. We're gonna get him soon. You gotta you gotta like catch fifty like you gotta catch him man, like you know in front, liked where is he at? Like you he would just

readily pop up. No free agents man, Uh, second string NFL players that rob banks while they're on the road. Carnal that it's cold man, but yeah, we um we up. Dante Sperodia is shooting the movie man, the cinematographer that shot heat. He's funny here, he's right, I've seen him. He's around a lot of your Yeah, he's a beautiful man. It's Michael Man, cinematographer, and I wrote this man a letter five or six years ago and he went and

met him. Seventy three year old Italian man lives in Italy and uh me and him fell in love and he's done the last three movies. For me, it's been pretty crazy. Man. But the insider heat last of the Mohicans Aunt man in the wash Um you know, Gigantic dude h Narnia you know. Um. Anyways, this movie is crazy. Fifty is like a like a Denzel character in Training Day.

His name is Rush Daniels. He's on his way out the league and basically he's lost all his money to bad investments and a bad money manager who is Deontaylor. Outside of filmmaking, Oh man, I'm this is it a hooper? Hooper? Man? I really every time you left every time like damn am I oh am I done? I don't know. No, this what you see is what you get. Man, I'm this guy all the time. UM. I think that's what's kind of cool about building yourself is you don't have to be no one else, you know. Um. I love

the game. I love my family more you know than anything. But at the same time, man, I understand what time means and and and what family means to all of this. So I kind of take the film thing where it's like it's my passion. It has replaced Hoop, if that makes sense. Like I never thought I would ever say that, but it's like I love it that much. But what you see is what you get, because if if you're

anything else, then real they you ain't gonna make it. Brother, you ain't gonna make you know, Yes, I first at the podcast, I was still playing basketball, still playing the Big Three. But as of now, this is my baby. This is I love more than anything. You can tell. You can tell that the the same reps that you've been taking the basketball your whole life, now you're doing it here. And what's crazy is you don't get that opportunity to you forty plus years old, do you know

what I mean? Like, like, that's what's crazy, man, is that this has never been offered to us. So when you was younger, nobody ever said, Matt Man, you can own your own production company. And like like, we don't know none of that ship man. It's like we we're this is why we're so behind. And while we're trying to fight so much to get where we need to go, because it's now your job to tell the twins, your job tell your kids, Like, you know, you want to

be a director, you know what I mean. I didn't know. I didn't know my calling would be film. I knew every film in high school I would quote the films. I would get kicked out of class for screaming like Onno Schwarzenegger, Predator, doing Eddie Murphy, you know what I mean. But no counsel of academy is like, man, you interested in film, That's what's crazy, you know what I mean.

Or that dude that's beating on the table rapping at lunch time to me and you both know, ain't no counsel and said, hey, man, let me you should take a music music class, and you know, it's like, no, get your ass out, you know what I mean. So it's kind of like now to be able to just to to create worlds that kids understand what you're doing at an early age actually could be a real career

for you. Well, they're just not you know that It's not just music or basketball no more nothing, you know, I mean, there's so many way and that's one of the main reasons why I started the Twins podcast and it's taken off, and obviously shout out the Malcolm team and Malcolm family for helping me do that, but showing them at the age you know, ship me and Jack got into the weird damn near forty, you know, the Twins got into it when they were eleven, you know

what I mean. So it's starting to build that and then all the producing another show for them as well, so just kind of getting them behind the scenes. Like I mean, sports is great, but there's just so many more things you can do. And like you said, we had very few options coming up, like you got into space, Like all we had was hoop, you know what I mean. But to open those doors at an early age and let you know you could be anything you fucking want,

That's right. That's what I think. It's our job, with the opportunities now to open those stores for people and just say it. I mean, the easiest thing is just say it, Like don't nobody even say it when you're younger, like man, you can do anything you want to do, Like you would hear that on the commercial, you know what I mean. But most people in in our neighborhoods, you know, because they didn't do it, so they don't

have a road map, you know what I mean. Like that's why I feel like the hate come is like here you are trying to do something and all these casts before you ain't never do this today. Yeah whatever, So it's like damn man, Like you know, so I think just saying it, man, but you're not just saying that, You're actually putting energy and effort into the words. So streight, Um, you spoke on family, your producing partners, your wife, what is that dynamic? Like dope is that? Jesus? It's great.

It's great because she's also my best friend. Um. You know, it's crazy man, because during the pandem me um, there were so many people divorcing, you know, because it was because the first time, the first time it was around heat. I was hearing all these stories and people was like, man, like I didn't even know who I was living with, and I'm like, yo, that's crazy. Like I just felt so blessed man, because like you know, I was able to be with the woman that was my friend, you

know what I mean. So yeah, first, so the pandemic to us was like we was kicking it, you know what I mean. And it's great because she's a lot smarter than me. You know, I'm just a creative hound man and she's a very book smart, you know, very organized. I'm gonna quarious man, I'm all over the place. I'm going left, I'm going right, you know what I mean. She's the other side of that, you know. So she's like, you gotta focus and do this now, and I'm like, okay,

I'll do that. But it's fantastic because we don't get in each other's way ever. She lets me be the director and I let her be the producer. Now, when it comes to producing stuff, we produced differently. You know. She knows how to physically produced a film. I know how to physically produced. Like the money and the capital talent,

you know what i mean. All starts working together. And what a great year this has been, man like for the first time, like we've been doing this for a long time and she just started getting all the recognition that she needs. She got a little card deal, go a little card with got a Bentley deal. Yeah, I'm sitting there and she get the car like, oh, that's Badley for me, Like, no, it's Billy for you like the doors opened the off. She was the first black

woman to be given a marketing campaign from Bentley exactly. Yeah, and look big shout out to Bentley for that, man, because what they realized was and they didn't want no rapper, they didn't want no athlete. They wanted a woman that built herself, sell made. And it was rocks In. Man. I was like, Yo, this is crazy. What's crazy? And that was when they really came and shot the Bidley commercial. I was like, and I was an extra. Yeah, yo,

stand back there and hold the kids. I'm like, you know, I was like, dude in the background, you have to ask the bar of the car. Yeah. Yeah, and I and I got to drive it once. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. But yeah, talk to us about that magical day of burger king how this all got started. Man, come on, what was your game? What was your game? Like, I want to hear what did she want to whop her with cheese? No? I said that shape? He said shape.

That's dropped that line. Now. I was like buying some food and she was at the back on the fries and she was like, who is that? She saw you? She wasna that cl she better come on I went to burn King with a whole bunch of my friends. Man, it's like ten of us in a in a geo storm, you know how it is. Man Like we're coming from the hood, bouncing in there. We do whatever, and I'm like all of us was looking at her, like, yo,

who is that? You know what I mean? Did? I ended up doing what I do, hung back for a minute, played you don't play the back. Finally I was like, you know, get I'm not that light skinned, man, I'm actually kind of l skin. You got light skin moves, I got a couple of moves. I got a dark soul. I'm like, yeah, man, I'm actually happy I got that phone up. But changed my life. How much of the NBA?

Do you watch? All of it? Man? Um? It's so easy now with all the technology now, I mean nothing, you can't miss nothing, you know, even if you miss a game. It's like NBA TV, online, Instagram. It's like everybody posting this. It's pretty great. But I think it's great about the NBA right now? Man? Is that? Um? I just love man to stand that the league took during the George Floyd movement. Man, Like I thought a lot of people don't understand how powerful that was. Straight up.

They caught a lot of flat four the things that they did, from shirts, two shoes to right on the court to the hundred million dollars. But you know it took a lot. Man, And shout out to my brother Kenny smith Man, like I love Kenny and I love what inside the NBA was doing it during that time, Like Kenny got up and walked out like it. I like what the NBA did, man, So they're gonna I'm gonna always support that brand, you know what I mean. Um, we do need more black coaches, you know what I mean,

We need all of it. But I think it can get there because they have the door open and they're listening and they're trying to figure out how to do what they need to do. And that's big man for organizations like that. You know, you think about NFL, Ain't no movement, right, So while we sitting up here doing all that, like, ain't no movement, you know what I mean, Every now and then they'll throw something out there like yo,

how about that, like ain't no movement? Man? When you see black coaches can't get no job, Guys getting put off the team it's like politically, man, they haven't made any to me. I haven't seen any strides where you're like, yo, that's dope. They actually really did that, you know what I mean. But the NBA did a really really good job of, you know, getting behind the culture. Who in the n B A do you remind yourself your kind of game? You got to compare your game to someone.

Come on, don't do that question because he said he was braun. So he didn't, Yes, he did. He didn't say this game was like bro. That's why I asked. I want to laugh when I hear these. Maybe you'll be man, I don't know. You know what, I'll tell you this. I don't know, man, you know what my younger days, man, I was more like a Derek Os Okay, okay, yeah yeah, I mean, y'all can check it out. I jumped. Check it out. I jumped to forty two. But I want every national dunk contest there was, so I was

a very explosive to guard. I just shoot no jumpers. I want to dunk over the mouth, that's all, you know what I mean. But later on developed a really really good jump shot. That's how I got paid to play. But the athletic side of it was my claim to fame. Like even when I think they just had like the top dunkers in the country. You on that list. I was on that list. You was on that list, Matt. Yeah, but the day I used to be able to bounce

a little bit. But I think that. But but what I have learned, like as I got old, I'm trying to show my son now like I never like below the rim guys like you ought to be like then they don't even jump high. But they played the longest because we you know, I'm so you were up alow the room guy. But but but you don't have me once in a while on you because no, he'll punch you. But but yeah, all that jumping and all that man, like I feel it every day now, I'd be like, damn, man,

my knee, my ankle on my back. I'm like, I remember when I was younger, I hear my dad grunt getting up, sitting down, Like I'd be always grunting. Now it's just natural. I sit down, wake up, anything I move as a grunt. I'm like, okay, I know with them, I don't know why my fun my dad was grunting, but I know why I'm running, Like what the fund is going on? My body is just not moving anyway. Man, quick hitters. First thing to come to mind were winding

up the show right now. Five most impactful films in your opinion? Oh um oh man, Full Metal Jacket, recently Predator for my own my own reason, Um Hours Classic, Nick Nelton, Um, you know the way they used to talk in the movies to back the fucking crazy if they would come out today, stuff they were saying, jeez, braveheart, Okay, damn, this is tough. That last spot, Boys in the Hood Classic. I go with them. Five like that, all different genres

soon pretty much your dreamcast to work with. Name five people, dreamcast. You know you don't have to put me on, uh, dream people. I would love Will Smith, Um, this would never happen. Daniel day Lewis because he's done acting and he's arguably the greatest act of all time. Denzel for sure. Um, I'm gonna throw Kevin Hard in there. I really like I don't know him. I've never met Kevin Hard, but

I really like him. Energies great da. I would have similar energy like every time you both you guys walking the room and you have no choice but to smile. Kevin Hard I would love to work with him. And then I think my last I said Denzel right, and then I think my last person would have to be Um right now, Violin Davis. Davis, Yeah, different. I like that said at any courtside NBA game in the history of the NBA court side in any game in the history, not in any finals. That was quick. Yeah, I would

have loved to see that. That was bull that was Bulls and Jazz. Yeah, I would love to see that. I would love to see that show Like that game to me, like if because I grew up in Chicago, so we've seen every game like w G N like it was that was it, Like I feel so lucky to be able to do that. But that game, for instance, like it was just so like iconic and it still is, you know what I mean. It's like the flu game

is the shoe, it's the shot. It's like it was like the whole world can't come, you know, the combination of everything into one. So I would love that seen that. If you could be on any movies that ever, how would it our faut? What would it be? Any movie set? Ever? Oh man, I would I would have loved to see. Um, I would have loved to be on the set of Eyesweight shut Stanley Kubrick. That's such a crazy ass movie, man, Like I would just want to see and not they

shot that movie. I think over the course of a year, Like I would have loved to just see what was happening there with time. Yeah, like that's just an eccentric, crazy movie. Uh. Five dinner guests dead are alive? Oh man, Um Sydney Portier, Um, Eddie Murphy, five dinner guess um Dad, that's good, met Dad are alive. I would have loved me tupap. I would have loved just met him and heard, you know, just um. One of the people would have been Robert Smith, but I know him like um and

sounds Robert when other people would have been nipped. But I met him and knew him. He was awesome. I wish we could have made a film together. I think the other two people would probably be Eddie Murpher. I mean, uh, Richard Pryor. That would be awesome of course, and uh probably I would have liked to have Matt Robin Williams. Okay, I just just misses out fire as itself that's funny as hell. Crazy is here. You want to be missed out? Fire you crazy man before Jack gets the last question.

I mean, since you're in this your favorite movie, we didn't ask you that your favorite name? Favorite movie? You can't really, okay, I tell you, I mean you name impactful, Like, yeah, that's too many movies that, like, you know, I mean, too many movies, man, it's too like I would. I would obviously go with forty Hours is like one of my favorite like if it comes on, if it comes on. I was just telling. I was just saying this like it's like it's gold man. It's like you can't that

in trading places like training places and all. You're crazy if you turn the town. I mean, you know what I mean. It's just he was. He was just that great. You know what I mean? He was just that great man. I didn't I tell you I got some My chick is outside. Yeah, but you wouldn't know that because you're a big bad white man. The whole movie is great. Just anything Eddie Murphy eighties class classic. Last question, you can have a guest on All the Smoke? Who would

it be? But you gotta help us get that guests on here. Oh man, um fifty cent fifty. You know what, I'll pick three people and I'll help all three. He's really gonna help. But you know why I'm gonna pick the three. I don't y'all real pot. We got him on the show, but they've real pot. We got I'm on the show, but they're real home boys. I'm gonna pick three people because they should be on the show, because I think they're they're their interview will help Cates

fifty and Robert Smith. Yes, yes, three would be great on here just because of their stories. Either one of them would be great. I'm a bag for y'all. Come on, you gotta do the bab jack good and begging too. He might get off segment, but it wasn't going well. He's gonna start. He gonna start begging as soon as we get off. Think he wanted he want to get on that big screen. Anyone who's gonna help you get a scene. It will be the person we interviewing today.

Told you Pete kirkly Man, we gotta do that. I got to be a part of that. I'm ready. That's gonna be amazing. Man. Yes, well, Dian Taylor Man, we

Appreciate you, man, You appreciate you. Man. Love to see your journey man, And like I said to getting a chance to meet you a long time ago and when ship wasn't going good and just to see you be able to perseveale and now have everything of your own with you and Rock Sand and your team and built this beautiful man in and again, how you when you say you're gonna do something, you do it when you

when you mentor when you open those doors. It's the family environment and we don't get that all time, especially you know how in this Hollywood ships and man, we want to thank you for being you, thank you for coming through and keep being great. Man. Oh man, appreciate you. Thank you so much. Man. You got to wrap. Dion Taylor. You catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the I Heart platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next week.

This is all a smoke a production of The Black Effect and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime