This episode is presented to you by DraftKings. The crown is yours.
Hmmmm, welcome back all the smoke, Day two in LA.
It's been a fun run. Yes, Sir Max has been out here having a good time. We're going to sit down with the legend yesterday. You get to sit down with another legend today, gold status. I just want to read some accolades real quick for introduce this this person. Two time n C double A champion sc won the first four w NBA champions.
How many four? Great? Okay? Make sure was the finals MVP of all four chips. How many four? Okay?
Yeah? Eight time Overseas scoring champ. I mean, and that's just some of the accolades. Welcome to the show. The one and only Miss Cynthia Cooper.
All right, I'm excited to be overdue.
We had to chase you down.
Yeah.
Birthday, thank you, thank you.
You do anything fun for your birthday?
I didn't really do anything fun. Well, I guess I did. I couldn't say that because then my son get all mad. Right, So I had dinner with my son and kind of chilled out. We binge watched some movies and television series. I'm really low key like that. You know, I don't need to party every once in a while. I enjoy being on somebody's island just for you know, working on my color.
Yeah yeah, yeah, work on your color. Ye need that. What's what's going on in life today besides that?
You know, I do training. I trained kids. I actually was telling someone I heard my foot the other day playing one on one with some twelve year olds.
Yeah.
Man, they didn't get the drill right. I was like, Jad, this is the jazz. It's more of a flinch. Do it this way. And I was like, you know what, check up, you know, just old school.
Just you didn't hurt yourself with the first jab, did you? No? No, no, I heard it.
Hey, look I heard it on the in and out move shot. And then I was going to do the runner off the glass. You look like it's still there though, Man, it's still there. Bye people. Yeah, I'm still going back. Yeah, I just pulling from my bag.
But sometimes our minds are a lot sharper than our bodies.
And when I noticed that my foot was like then, I was like, you know what, a little too much?
Yeah, a little too much.
Let's talk about the current state of the w n b A with all the money and all the attention is getting.
I love it. I love the current state. And what I love about it is that this past rookie class, they were the first rookie class to really bridge the gap between the n c a A fan fans and the W fans. You know, they brought their fans with them. Before there was a disconnect, you know, from you know they're playing in March Madness and you know in college to them going and playing and performing in the WNBA.
This past rookie class they were the first ones to kind of bridge that gap and bring their fans with them, which then brought viewership, sponsorship money, more money, and I love it. The other thing that I'm super impressed with is it talent. You know, because girls get a chance
to dream of playing in the WNBA. Now they're preparing sooner, so they're getting to the W more complete, their games are more balanced, and then they're bringing that talent, you know, to the W and now we have the fans and people are really seeing how special women's sports are.
You had a quote it said, one thing I'm proud of about my journey is I never got bitter.
Yeah, man, you know, sometimes when you see all this money they making and you know you didn't make it, and you know they have unrivaled and and and for unrivaled, I had to go back overseas and get some money. You know, you can become like a little jealous, like I wish I was. I wish I was there, a little hater. You could become a hater, But not me. I love it, like I love everything that they're getting.
They deserve it. I love the fact that, you know, the walking into the arena has become the new red carpet, you know. And I love that that they're able, the athletes are able to showcase not just the talents on the court, but who they are off the court. And a lot of times that's what gain fans support when you show who you are off the court, when you when you demonstrate that you're more than just a basketball player.
We'll get back in touch on your time at SC, but talk to the current.
That's because you're brewing.
No, I have no issues with Yeah, I'm neutral, so don't get mad with zero zero issues with that.
But what I want to say is, you finished college, is the best player in the nation. What were your options in America at that time, none nothing, nothing.
As a matter of fact, not only did I not have options in America, I barely had options overseas. You know, you got to remember when I was in college, it was the McGee twins. It was the Cheryl Miller show show. So Cheryl Miller was that that girl, that player, right, and the McGee twins were right there, twin towers.
Right.
I actually came off the bench for the first three years.
Wow.
Right, So I was a role player. Now I play now I finished. I hear some shots now, but that wasn't really I wasn't the star. And so you know, coming out of college, nobody really believed that I could I could perform. And it's funny because while I was a role player, in my mind, I was a better like in my mind, I was a champion. In my mind, I was a go to player. I was just playing the role I needed to play on my team for
us to win a championship. Right. So then when I got Overseas, the first thing I did my actually, actually my first year was in Spain. I averaged close to forty five points average. I was giving them numbers, dragging everybody the dog cat everybody. Everybody was to get some right because I had to prove myself. I had a chip on my shoulder right my first year in Italy had averaged forty thirty nine point year giving them numbers.
Why because they were supposed to be the best league, and I just wanted them to know y'all missed out right once again with a chip on your shoulder, right, So that's kind of that was my opportunity after, you know, after college.
I want to back up real quickly because you said something that I think we all grew up having to learn is we had to pay our are dudes now kids hop in the portal for coach looks that I'm wrong or if they if they play bad and don't play now they What did you learn from paying your dues and kind of riding your time and understanding and how did that help you with in the long term as a player?
Accountability? I learned accountability. I learned that if I wanted to be great, I had to put work in. I learned that I had to I had to work. I couldn't blame it on anybody else because at the end of the day, coaches don't go out on the court Coaches don't come off the screens. Coaches don't have one on one on the wings. Coaches don't have to read the defense on the court, you know, in real time.
I learned that I had to be accountable for me, for for my training, for my moves to the basket, for my shooting percentages, free throw percentage, and how I helped my team be better win championships. I had to be accountable for that, and so as a result, I put in work, like I went to I didn't start playing basketball until I was fifteen, so I started playing fifteen. By the time I got to college, I had only
been playing basketball for three years. Now, I might add I did average thirty one points as a senior in high school. I'm throwing that out there.
To go ahead and throw that shit.
Yeah, but I had one scholarship offer and I was from USC, right, And so I learned hard work will get you there, and then loyalty.
Right.
I was loyal. I was loyal to my high school for giving me an opportunity. I was loyal to USC for opening up the windows of the world to me, and because of that, I was able to go overseas with another level of confidence. That Okay, Like I wasn't the star, but I am a star. Like I can be great. I can be great if I'm willing to put the work and look myself in the mirror when I have a bad game and go get better.
You're from why there's another young lady coming from WATTS currently and kind of followed your footsteps from WATS to SC. Unfortunately, we all saw what happened to Juju tear her knee during the tournament. Any relationship with her and what have you thought of her game up to this point in her first season and a half.
Yeah, I shoot her communications and texts and all the time. And I just love Juju.
Hockn you not?
I mean I love Juju. I love the work she put in. I love when she has a bad game, she's in the gym working on her craft. I love that with everything that's going on around her, she still focuses on the game that she loves and that she has almost perfected. Right, And I love that there's always growth. Right when you see Juju as a freshman and have the accomplishments she did, she didn't just settle there for that.
You know, she came back her sophomore year and just better, adding to her bag, adding to her game and constantly growing.
Right.
So I love where she is and I know when she comes back from this injury, she's going to be better because mentally, you have to be a strong person to come out of the inner city, and then you have to be an even stronger person to transition your mind from Watts to USC, from USC to you know, being the best player in college basketball. And you have to be able to separate mentally what happens off the
court from what you're doing on the court. And Juju has perfected that, Like she knows when she needs to get in the gym and get some extra shots up, when she needs to add to her back. So love where she is and I love where she's going.
We and not especially in men's basketball. A lot of us come from, you know, the hood and hard demographics, and we don't hear too many stories about women having to overcome a lot.
Of ours to come out.
You come from Watch paint the picture of your childhood coming out of Watch.
Yeah, man, the first thing that came to my mind is hungry? Are you just hungry? Serp sandwiches?
You know?
Government chief men and and just the fact that it wasn't always easy to get to school. You know, you're catching a bus. At the time, it was called RTD Rapid Transit District and and when you live in wats, you know, I had to I had to walk from that bus stop home and make it there safely.
Right.
So I grew up in it was very tough with seven siblings.
And where you at in the in the in the hierarchy.
I'm the middle. I'm kind of the middle.
Right.
My brother Ricky was killed in eighty eighty five. I was in college and it was you know, it was tough growing up in watch But I wouldn't trade my upbringing for anything, because it really taught me how to persevere, how to be determined. Like my mom, she raised eight kids by herself. She it seemed like she worked for
twenty four hours. So I didn't always get the hug or the nurturing that other people say they need, but I did get an example of the dedication and the determination that a parent has to not allow their kids to start in the same place they did. And for that man, I put it. I put into work right, and sometimes you know, I remember almost getting a whooping because I didn't get a whooping because I'm funny, like I have jokes, like three I could tell yeah, man,
I have three jokes. And we were getting ready to go to catch the bus to Disneyland, which takes about a day anyway, and my mom told me to not put too much vasoline on my head, and I was oiling it up. And I walked out there and my dog on forehead was shinier than the sun, big old foehead, shiny as ever. They're not jail you not to put I said, Mommy, my forehead just big and shiny. She started laughing. I didn't get a whooping. Disneyland here we come. Yeah,
But that was my upbringing, you know. I went to Locke High School, luc K. Gompers Junior High one hundred eighteenth Elementary School, and then my one scholarship offer because we want to step the championship my senior year, we want to state championship. I was able to get a scholarship to us.
And that came later.
That came like after the season, after you guys won it, you had already had it.
Oh no, after we won Oh wow?
So yeah, I didn't have you didn't really know what was going on up until yeah, until it came No.
I didn't. I didn't have an offer until we won a championship.
That's crazy.
South Central has produced a lot of famous people, athletes, artists during your time of upbringing. Did you grow up with anybody that you that that made it up?
We would know.
I didn't really have a lot of role models that had made it out of Watts growing up. But you know, the Lakers were really who I kind of. I tried to model my game out Norm Nixon was my guy. Yeah, man Jamal Wilkes. I didn't like his shot, but it's all good, right, I made it work. And I would say Michael Cooper's defense, but I ain't really play no defense. It was really what not my thing? But I love the way he was always that team player, right, the
glue that kept everyone together. Magic, you know, magic just at his size, with everything he was able to do, from the shot, from the passing, from running the fast break to playing in the post, like he was that complete player that you wanted to be, right, And so I modeled my game a lot after the Lakers, the Laker players, because I didn't have a lot of I didn't have any female role models to model my game after.
And besides, whenever I played pickup, know, I was dragging some guy to the rim and his boys was on the sideline reaming him out, you know, talking, mess talking. Yeah, they were over there. Oh my god, she's killing you. I'm like, well you next? Who got next? What are we doing?
What would you do? She was just cooking you. I just take it. I'll just take it. Let me tell you why.
My older sister was a tip player in Texas coming out of high school, and I took a couple of whips from her, so I know what it feels like. Yeah, I know what it feels like. It's not the same. But as getting be by mail. Let me say that it's not the same. It's definitely worse. And she was, Yeah, she's gonna remind me to this day.
Yeah.
Yeah, were you into the hip hop scene? You into the hip hop scene?
Never really been into the hip hop scene, you know, I will tell you. You know, for me, I'm so driven and so focused, and I really had a fear growing up that if I veered it too far off my path, I would I would lose myself, right, I would lose that battle with gangs and drugs and all sorts of things happening in my neighborhood. I really wanted to stay focused and stay on that path. And I did, you know, I remember, you know, growing up, I went to uh, my mom sent me to the supermarket. Of
course I had to walk to the supermarket. I had a red scarf on because I had curlers in my I had curlers in my head, the pink ones, the hard ones that hurt when you sleep. Yeah, those, So I had those in my hand, and I had a scarphone. And I remember getting ready to walking to the store and two dudes, two guys standing right there. They just snatched the scarf off and burned it in front of me. And I was just like, what, No, what's up? What's that?
What?
I was like, I just come to get some milk and cereal. That's and that was. That was an experience like that taught me that you can't go too far from where you're supposed to be, and you have to be cognizant of you know, who's around you and the effect that can have on your life.
Real take a look at this video right here.
We could not see I to eye on anything.
Shack and Kobe. Oh it was, and.
I will say she was she was Kobe, and I had some shocking I had. I had some shock in me where Kobe, you can be you, but you ain't gonna tell me how to.
Do you know?
And I would I would sit there like, who.
Just do you ever? Shut up? And younger than you?
Older, older, and and I was, look, coming out of high school, you're hearing you the end all be all. I started drinking my kool laid at a very young age. So now I got this other mouth who wants to go at me? I've got you know, and I'm look, I knew I was good, but I didn't believe I was good, so I was. I was insecure. So you're gonna challenge me.
I ain't gonna.
I ain't no punk.
I mean live at Riverside, but I ain't no punk. So she would come out from Watson. She would say that I'm from.
I'm like an.
Taste the same, yeah, the same wanted you know, I mean, And we were sitting there, I mean, you know, and you know the twins are like, sure she's from Watson. That would Papa, I don't care, no, but on the court. Simpotico, simpotico. But I will say one thing, a couple of things about Cynthia, a self made, driven superstar, Hall of famer, so well deserved.
Yl.
You know, you arguably played with the greatest female player of all time, and as you talked to earlier, you kind of had to pay your dues and fit into a role to help the team win. That's not always easy, especially with someone as good as you are, and ended up being able to kind of spread your wings post college. But how was it in college with that team, particularly Cheryl and the twins, and in the chemistry and and and winning at the same time.
Yeah, so did I mention I was a little rough around the edges when I got to college. I didn't mention that. Yeah, I was, you know, straight out of the box, like you talking about straight. I was straight out of Watts and and so I didn't know what I didn't know. And it was hard for Sheryl and I to see ida eye mainly be because she was up here and I was down here. So I'm like, yo, listen,
I thought I was the greatest. I thought I had it like I was it, And so I had a chip on my shoulder, come from the Inner City, you know, going to USC and then here comes Cheryl Miller, you know, one hundred and five points in the game. I'm like, yo, but she ain't. She ain't play against me. They didn't want none of none of it like high school. Well, OK, they ain't want none of that, right, they ain't want none of that. Right. So I'm feeling myself. I'm feeling myself.
And then we have our first practice and I say, shit, they can't. Coop, you got to get better. Like she was so great, wow, so so talented, and she played so hard. The first thing that came to mind was, Coop, she better than you. Damn you gotta do better. I went to work after that.
I went to work.
You know, I had to talk my ship because I didn't have what she had, and I had to work and work because she was amazing, especially at her side. She was the first at her size to have that level of talent. Knock down, the three, get to the rim, play defense, that run, the fast break, you name it. She could do it. And I was like, wow, I want to be like you. So you know, I had to, you know, try to punk her because I ain't had a game to match up.
That tactical career, saying, career.
You gotta get your bluffy in right, I still have. I had so much to learn and so much to add to my game, and she already had it. I was like, oh my god, she's great. I ain't tell her that. I did not tell her that. I'm like, yo, I'm like, you're on from Wasside, will whoop you? She was like, yo, I'm from Riverside. I don't care about no Riverside. Just wash up in the building building twins. She Yeah, look, she got real tough. I love Cheryl, y'all know I love she. She got real tough when
she was standing behind the McGee twins holding her back. Yeah, Flint, Michigan there with the wall between us. No, it was great Cheryl. Cheryl was like, she's my goat. She was the greatest I had ever seen, and I only wanted to be like her. I wanted to raise my game. I didn't look at the coaching staff. I didn't look at her. I went in a gym. I was like, yo, you got to develop a left hand. You got to
develop a mid range game. You got to not be able to shoot the three if you want to slash to the basket, your game has to be more complete. It has to be like hers complete package, a complete package. And she played so dog on hard, y'all. She played hard, diving on I'm not diving under the scoreboard. I'm not doing that right because I grew up in Watts, right, I played outside. Ain't nobody diving outstanding? Come on, now,
we're not doing that. She played in the gym. I'm over here at Venice Beach Memorials, the gym and memorial Santa Monica Memorial. I'm out on the black top. I'm getting it in. Yeah, you know, I wish they would knock me down. I'm coming down on two feet. I'm not sliding for nobody. So you know that helped me in college, right, that helped me in the pros. I'm constantly in balance right on. You ain't bumping me off my line, Nope, I'm anticipating that contact.
I'm meeting you where you yeah.
Yeah. So now, she was great and she helped me be better, and as a result, I became who everyone saw in the w n B A because I had to. I had to deal with Cheryl Miller, the greatest of All Time at a very very early age.
So Cheryl said, you guys were the Showtime's little sisters. Obviously you mentioned that team and that motivation and inspiration. Any us stories you remember with those guys, those guys magic in particular, or any of them.
Well not I don't remember a lot of stories, but I remember Cheryl was Showtime. You remember I came off the bench, y'all. I was in the second five. So for me, the McGee twins and Cheryl, they were Showtime me.
I was.
I was trying to carve my spot out right. The funny thing about my collegiate experience is by the time you know, eighty three, by the time we got to the championship game, we were the first All Blacks starting five. So I went from being on the bench the entire season to starting in the championship game and we won that. We won that championship against kill Mooch and her crew Deborah Rodman, Janis Lawrence. It was great because I ain't like them because Kim talked too much. No, she wasn't nice.
She was a point guard, had those pigtails. Man come on, the little braids in her hair and look, y'all, y'all ready for this. I took my first and only collegiate charge. It was a block all the way, but they didn't call it a block. They called it a charge. The ball was tapped away. Kim tapped the ball away from Kathy and I saw it happening.
I was like, boom, she goes.
Tapped it to Janice Lawrence. Janice Lawrence passes it out to kill Mochy on the fast break. I sprint back and look, y'all. They have been calling charges all game, charges all game. So I said, if I try to block this girl's shot, they're gonna call the follow me. We only yep by two, they're gonna call her phone. I said, you know, I'm gonna take a charge. Hey, y'all, I ain't know how to take a charge, but I knew I had to try to take a charge. Took
a charge. Boom charge on kill Moke. We going down, Cherl picks me up off the floor. She's jumping around. She's probably just jumping around because I took a charge.
That seemed like the scene from Loving Basketball many where they got that from.
They didn't pay me no money though, they ain't give me my duke.
Scene when Monica turned the ball over, it back down. They changed it a little bit. But yeah, see yeah, yeah, come on the show and you heard some money. I'm gonna give you a few names. You talked about them. But Deborah Rodman.
A little crazy but greaty look crazy. But you know what it was, It was funny. First of all, she came by honest, we know her brother, but she was just a shot blocking machine, defensive player. She was tough around the basket. So you know, I really I enjoyed going up against everybody, right because you know, I played against guys, so you know, when they let me play against girls, I was like, all.
Right, cool, thank you. How hard was that?
I'm diverting a little bit, But I was going to ask you, playing on these black tops, there's not too many women out there, if any, So what was that like coming up and kind of earning your stripes, in earning respect for the men out there?
Yeah, you know it was. It was tough at first because you have to prove yourself.
You know.
The other thing you taught me was you got to be creative and you have to be lethal, Like you can't get out there and miss three shots because then they start talking. It's a man's game. You ain't supposed to be out here anyway, like what you're doing. You're a girl, right, So I learned to be fishing. I learned to be. I learned to attack, and also I learned that when I attack, I'm gonna draw everybody, because every guy believes they're better than every girl just because
they're a guy. And every guy is gonna try to beat your shot up when you go to the realm, every single one up. So they're gonna go for every shot fake, they're gonna go for every time you go to the realm because in their minds they getting ready beat this up. So I'm dishing off, I'm past my and we winning, and were sitting them down and they boys talking bad, crazy trash on the sideline to them,
and I'm loving every minute. Then they start talking to me, and now you talk about shit talking, man, I got some one liners for your eight Yes, come on, quick, precise cut cut right. So that was me, that was me learning right, that was me learning my craft. But it also taught me how to take contact when I played in games, and how to get teammates involved so
that you balance your game out. And they can't always double team you, Right, That's what playing against guys and how quick they are and strong and athletic, it taught me those things so that when I applied those to my games when I played in college, or when I played overseas and I got triple teamed overseas, or they're playing super physical in trying to keep me from scoring, because overseas they don't care you getting paid to score, you getting paid to score, you getting paid to win.
They don't care that they're triple tamu and officials not making a call. So you know, I learned a lot playing on the black tops in la.
First ten years overseas, you wont scoring titles of the first eight, but the first ten, you could have won all ten because you was in the runner is to win all ten, but you won eight. Was that in Italy, Spain, Italy, Italy and you only made twenty k?
Talk about that experience.
Yeah, First, let me let me say this. I only made twenty k going over because that was the pay skill and I didn't care because I wanted to get my foot in the door because I felt like if I got my foot in the.
Door, it would open up more opportunities, right, and so yeah, I could have made more stand in America, but I wanted to pursue a dream of playing professional basketball.
And so I went over there and I took a chance. I betted on me. I bet it on my skill set, on my drive and determination. Right, I I chose you know me. And so I went over there, and like I said, I'm dragging people. I'm giving them numbers. We winning games. I'm not just scoring. We're winning because that's just I'm not just a score. I want to win in everything I do. I want to be the best.
And so you know, going over there being scoring champion when they when other people were picked before me, right, and other people had the names they wanted to rese it Edwards, they wanted Janice Lawrence, they wanted other you know players, and not me. So I had to turn the tie, right, I had to turn that spotlight on to me. And you do that by rolling up your sleeves and going to work.
You always talk about it.
You have mixed emotions about your time overseas, being from Watts and going to Italy like that culture shop.
Yeah, yeah, so you know I'm a kid from Watts, did I mention I was rough around the edges. I go to Watts and I get my first coach over there. I'm sorry. I go to uh to Italy and my first coach is Antonio Morabito, and all Antonio Moravia wanted me to do was shut up now. Cheryl told y'all that I talked too much, right she did, She did mention that.
Right.
So I'm over here, I'm trying to learn the language. They don't speak any they speak broken English. I don't speak any Italian. And every time I tried to explain something and he would say shot op, shot shot op, and I be like no, But I said, finally, I said, you know, shut up is offensive. He said, shot top yo. I'm ready to tear his head off his shoulders. I'm ready to So finally I just bolt out the gym. I actually jogged back to my apartments, like five miles away.
I just run back. That's how hot. I'm packing my stuff. I'm ready to get out of there. The president of the team comes. He tries to explain. I was like, nah, I'm good boom packing myself, remember from Watts, So I ain't about to take this anyway, So talk to me he talked me down. I go back, we talk it out. He ends up being one of my favorite coaches in the world. He challenged me, he helped me to be better.
And then a year and a half later in the language, Yeah that's who your father with because a boy can't study cha. You asked you to say, I know how to get the ball, I know where my money is coming, I know when it's late. I can tell you when it's late. Yo, Come on now, Yeah, I mess around, the care from Watts. I mess around and learn your language. Yes, I did in a small city called Parma, Reggiano di Parma. Anyway, we'll go there another time. So so, yeah, I learned
a language. And and all the time, I'm never thinking I'm not supposed to be doing this because I'm a care from Watts. I'm not supposed to be able to learn another language. I'm not supposed to be able to go to Italy and average thirty nine forty points. I'm not I'm not supposed to that. People people are people don't believe I can do this. It never dawned on me that I wasn't supposed to do that. I just knew that that's what I needed to do, and I did.
It from overseas. Can you walk us through how the w NBA got formed.
Yeah, So I had been hearing about two leagues, the a BL and the w n B. A well, at the time, they didn't I didn't know what would be called the w NBA. They just I just knew that there was going to be a team or a league created by the NBA. Played in the summer, so I was like, you know, that's opposite of my season overseas. You know, I get to come back to America in my mind. So first team, first people I called was the a BL that were the a b L and
they I was like, yo, I'm Cynthia Cooper. I love to try out for one of your teams.
You know.
I played at USC and they were like, we have enough guards. And I was like, I mean, okay, it looks like I'm going back overseas, right, So I'll go back overseas. But now I know that it's they're confirming that they're going to start a league. The NBA is going to start women's league in the summer. So I get it together. I get my stat sheets, get the stat sheets, I get film vhs at the time, YEP. Put it all together and before I send it off, I called Renee Brown. Called Renee Brown just to let
her know that the package was coming. And I called her. I said, Yo, Renee, you know, I really would love to play in the w n b A. I'm Cynthia Cooper. I play in Parma, Italy. I've been over here. And she's She's like, I said, yeah, you know, I'm really I have this package. I want to say, She's like, in Italy, Parma, she said, I said yeah.
She said, girl, we've been looking for you.
The top eight. What do we send the contract? I'm like, but on the phone, I was like, oh, you know, you can send the contract.
That's the crazy story.
I had these steps, I had everything together to send and she was like, oh, you're on that topic. What do we send in the country. I was like, I call my mom. I'm yelling. She said, hold on, what's going on? Are you You are right? I'm playing the WNBA. Mom, I'm coming home.
Before we come home and talk about that, speak to the grind that oversees grind. I mean, it's a lot of practice is talk to what that And it's ten to eleven months it's a long season two right.
Yeah, it's like it's like a ten month season. And I think the grind is you know, for me, yo, there's no grind harder than growing up in Watts. And I ran track and I just was like whatever it takes. So for me, I was up for it. You know. I wasn't the type to go out to party. I'm not partying because I'm gonna drag you tomorrow, So you're not gonna catch me in the club. You might catch me after, but let me give you some numbers first, right. And so it was tough playing overseas. The biggest part
was being away from your family and your friends. Right. You just all all of a sudden gone for most of the year. Right, and then you come back, you lose touch with friends and you know, people forget you, and so it was tough. It was tough, but I made tons of friends in Italy. I traveled all over Europe, Valencia and then Ference and then I played two years on the island of Sicily in Sicilia, in a city
called Alcamo. So I took full advantage of this kid from Watts being over in Europe, right, I didn't just sit back and play basketball. I really learned the culture and I literally lived as an Italian in Italy and that really it was a great time for me, a great time in my life.
First four years, you go four for four? Yeah, was it easy the first couple of years?
Well, it wasn't easy first of all, because when I got back, I didn't know that I would be as successful as I was. Right, I didn't know that we would be that successful because I hadn't played against all Americans in a long time. Normally there are only two foreign players per team over in Italy, So you know, I put up numbers there, but who knew that it was going to translate here? So I just went back to work, right, I went to add to my bag and get better.
How old were you first year on the W thirty four?
I turned thirty five.
And coach was holding you back when he first came so he wouldn't lett you lose it.
He won't let me loose. He wouldn't let me so. So I get there and it's show swoops team. But she pregnant. I had nothing to do with that. Y'all.
Offense was built around her and everything.
Ething we got next was built around Chryl Swoops, Lisa Leslie, Rebecca Lobo. They ain't have my name nowhere in there, right, But then you give me an opportunity. I remember I said same opportunity when I was making twenty thousand dollars over overseas. You give me the opportunity, and I'm just gonna come in and do what I have to do.
Right.
And so I'm playing and I'm thinking I can do more. I can do more. So I have a meeting with Coach Chancellor. Coach Chanceller's like, yo, cool, you already mid season MVP. You know what I said, Coach, But I can give you more, like I can, I can do more. He's a kite man. He let me go. And now now I'm going to the rim. I'm making players better, We as a team get better, and nobody expected us to make it to five hundred without Cheryl, and we
go win the championship. You know, Nike has signed me to like a real uh just a regular deal, just right out of you know, first year in a w they don't know a very basic deal. And then I go, I win MVP, then we win the championship, and then I'm MVP at of the playoffs, and they were like, uh, can we renegotiated, can we can we sign you for a little longer? And so they came back to the table. So it was just a good time for me. Yeah.
Expand on that Nike situation being your own shoe.
Yeah, so taught us about that, no.
I you know, when you dream of playing professional basketball, you dream of championships, you dream of winning the you know, hitting the winning shot of a game. You even might dream of being an MVP, but you never dream, or at least I didn't of having your own shoe. And I was just like, remember you guys, I'm that same kid from Watts. You know, I'm the kid at USC that was looking up at Cheryl Miller, and now Nike
is going to give me my own signature shoe. I was like, I just felt incredibly honored and I was blown away by the opportunity that Nike afforded me and and a lot of other female athletes. You know, they've always been out in the forefront. And I was like, yo, once again.
You know.
I went back to my mom, like, Yo, we get some.
Shoes up in the building.
Yeah. So it was it was a great moment for me.
Will come to mind me see that picture.
Yeah, greatness, you know, I'll just say I'll just say greatness.
You know.
So that that picture was at a Nike event when Phil Knight was retiring, and so we were all there to celebrate Field Night. Really quick story before that picture, I was in a pull up to the hotel. Get out the car. I see some Italians speaking, you know, people in front of me. I can understand. We get there checking into the hotel and they're speaking Italian, bowing my check in. We get we happen to be in
the elevator together. So we're going up and I'm looking at this guy and I'm like, I know this guy. It's Paulo Maldini from Milan Ace. I'm like, yo in Italian, Yosuki say do say Paulo Mountdini. Do say me though, he's just looking at me like this black girl in Beaverton, Oregon speaking Italian? What his kids are there, his wife is there, and they're just all looking at me like And then I explained that I played basketball in Parma and all that, so they were less alarmed, but it
was great. And then that picture, you know, Ray Pond, my Nike rep at the time, she was like, y'all get together, get together. I mean, we didn't know it was gonna become iconic. We just all kind of got together and took the picture and and then look at it. Look at all that greatness in that picture.
Is that Moses Malone in the back?
Moses Malone? And look when I see when I when they when they posted that picture, everybody was like, who's the girl? Like, shoot, besides Michael Jordan, I got more championships than anybody. That's who the girl is.
That's right.
Anyh Kobe connections both y'all having any I have to both have an Italy connection.
Yeah. So Kobe and I every time we saw each other just spoke Italian to each other. We speak Italian one we get to practice it. And he's just you know, great, just a great, great person. And just so when I when I finally had kids and brought him to the game, I remember Kobe coming. I was walking in the back and he was like he stopped me and he was with his daughter, one of his daughters, and he was like, yo, this Citia Cooper. She Mito, She's a Mito. The girl
was like, what does mito mean? I think he means legend. So yeah, Kobe and I were close, and I remember one time at an All Star game he was he was like warming up at half court ball and handling, and I was like, you know what you're gonna do in the time. I was like, yo, because A like mijora. Oh no, He's like, yeah, I'm better than all of them. And we're speaking in time. Don't nobody even know what we say. He's like, yeah, I'm better than all of them.
Uh So it was just we've had were at half court and you know how much media is around during practice, so it was.
Yeah, mj any relationships.
Yeah, you know. So mj uh is my my goat, and he was one of the guys that when I was when I was being inducted into the Natesmith Memorial Hall of Fame. Hey, you guys, do not judge me, but this actually happened. It was natural. So they citia Cooper and I get up to walk up on stage and Michael Jordan right there. So I just tapped him on his butt, like, yo, your girl is in the building. I'm like, who Cooper is here? I mentioned I was rough around the edges.
That's funny, Hey, yo, Yo, girls in the Hall of Fame.
Yo, that's dope. What does that mean? Though? Again the girl from Watts Long, I mean, and.
You did it, you won championships, historic career overseas in in the w But when that when that phone call came.
Yeah, man, I was so nervous because you know, I'd only played four years in a w right and I didn't know that I would be a Hall of Famer because I didn't know if I had done enough. And so when that call came, I was so nervous. I was like just jumping for joy once again. You dream, you know, you can dream of stuff you never quite
get to. I'm gonna be a Hall of Famer, Like they're gonna induct me into the Hall of Fame with Michael Jordan and in my class it was Scottie Pippen, the Mailman, but doctor Buss was in my class and arrest in Peace. It was just it was just an extreme honor, and to be honest, I was a little overwhelmed. Right, I'm still the kid at heart, My spirit is still that kid that everybody said, you couldn't do this, you
can't go there, you can't accomplish this. They never told me what I could do and who I could be, and so to be a Hall of Famer. It really solidifies that, you know, no matter where you come from, if you're willing to stay the course, if you're willing to believe in yourself, put in the work and believe that you can do it, like have that perseverance type of spirit of perseverance. Man, you can, you can. You can achieve what you want to.
That's beautiful graduations.
What year was that twenty ten? Speak to the relationship of the Big Three again? Obviously first four championships in the w Cheryl and Tina. What was your guys' dynamic, Like, all different backgrounds, all different journeys, landing in one spot and you know, making magic happen.
Yeah, I think you know. I will say two people's names real quick that help bring us together. One Kim Paratt rest in peace.
How instrumental was you spoke very You've always spoken very highly high instrumental she was.
She was pivotal. She was our glue, our you know, she was the one that ran the show. She was the soldier. She was the one that was like, yo, Coop, that's don't shoot that. I'm not gonna pack, don't shoot the next one.
Right.
She was the one that everyone listened to, and she brought us all. She brought us all together. She came out of a tryout, you know, she came out of a tryout, and then she sacrificed a lot of her game for the Big three.
Right.
She she scored fifty four points in college. Right, So she was a scorer, and she came out and she just ran the team and really morphed into whatever we needed her to be in order for us to win championships. So yeah, and she was. She would dog the ball up the court. Look, I think I led the team in steels or I was second, because she would deflect the ball and I was still it because I was in denied. I was always in denying. I was always denying the ball. You know why because I ain't really
want to play no defense. Yeah, man, because if you deny the ball and they don't get it the other side.
But that's what they tell you, though one pass away, you should be in denying. How is your help side defense?
My help side defense was ridiculous. I was in help side defense all the time. Time ball got to my side. I was denying right now. Remember y'all, I'm denying Kim tips it and I steal it.
Man.
Come on, now, that's a life, right. You ain't really got to do nothing but stay in the passing lane. Make sure your hands are containing contest. Baby, that's my thing.
But speak to that.
That that team though obviously excuse me, the Big Three because correct me from wrong. Simultaneously, the Rockets are trying to build their Big three with Elijah Won and Barkley and Drexter at the same time, right, and you guys with the team that got it right?
Yeah, I think we got to right before we were we were different, we were special for a reason. The other person I wanted to mention was Van Chancellor. You know, he was a good manager of people and helped us kind of come together. So there were some tense moments.
Why tense moments because you know, Tina was young rookie, first first ever drafted in the WNBA, and then Cheryl was pregnant and coming in and somebody else and came in and stole kind of stole her her position the way the way I think she saw it right, and and now she won it back. So the question is, can we play together?
So me.
You know, I've done my homework. I didn't know who Cheryl Swoops was when I first got back to the WNBA, Like, I didn't know who who she was, but then I read up on her. You know, won the national championship, scored forty seven points. Cat Quick places defense both sides of the ball. Like, you know, I did my homework, so I know who she is. She comes back and my mind, we can work together, right because our games aren't similar. She's more of a you know, shooter, she
plays defense. She's transition me. I'm a slasher. I'm trying to get to the room every chance I get. And when I don't get to the room, I'm trying to get there anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm trying.
I'm trying to I'm getting closet there.
That's right, that's right. Don't let her go right. I fake left to go right. I jacks have to go right, in and out and go back right. Stop me from going right. That's my thing. Right, I go left to go right. I hit a three pointer to go right. I'm just trying to go right. I hit the coach
telling her they're yelling on it. In and out shoulders going this way, the ball going that way, Baby, I'm already sho the rim by that time they figured out there's a couple of chicks still at the gym looking for me right now, right, so you know, you know, I believe, I believe we could play together. You know, Suyl know Cheryl wants to be the MVP. I'm the MVP.
Right.
The great thing about us three was I was older, Tina was young, and Show was right there in the middle. So I knew what we had to do in order to win. And remember, you guys, I'm well versed at sacrificing because I did it in college, right, I did it when I played USA basketball, So I know how to play a role. But the role I'm playing right now, I'm her. I'm her now. Everybody else, line up, get in line now. I ain't gonna be here forever because
I'm older, but right now, this is my role. I've earned it, right in my mind, I've earned it, you know, and Cheryl's mind she was giving it, and Tina's mine. I'm gonna get it like I'm gonna be there, right, And that's why our dynamic was so great because we were all at different phases and it was unique and it worked right because we were willing to sacrifice when we needed to sacrifice to win a championship and not make each other, yes, not make each other the enemy,
but come together and make them the enemy, right. And I think that was That's a tough thing to do.
I mean, you explained it very well, but I mean, egos are a motherfucker, you know what I mean, you know, and that's a hard I think on the men's side of particular.
I can't speak to the women's side. That keeps a lot of teams from.
Getting over that hump that have a ton of talent is egos and stuff like that. For you guys to be able to somehow put it aside for the greater good.
It shows even Kelsey said, like women can be way more caddier than men.
Oh yeah, trash.
We are terrible sometimes. But I think for us, we, like I said, we had the unique combination that I had already played eleven years of professional basketball. So I'm in the gym. Yeah, so I'm in a gym. You know, we practiced at eleven. I'm there at seven. I'm doing my sprints, I'm doing my weights, I'm doing my shots. You know, I'm there after we finish, you know, I'm there. I grabbed the rookies were playing one on one. You know, I'm working on my game. I'm working on their game.
My game. I'm getting better. And so, you know, for me, it was just everybody needs to play their role. Like when it was my turn to play my role, I did that. Now with somebody else's turn to play that role for this time, not forever, for this time. And I and I think we had that dynamic, which is why we were successful. And then the other thing is, you know, we realized everybody was after us. Right after the first year there was an influx of the abl players that that league folded.
So now that're coming, have enough room for you.
Yeah, same league to say, no, they were good, they had enough.
Going Welcome to my world.
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm just doing shake them.
Yeah.
I was giving them numbers. Couldn't wait till they came.
Would all due respect what were obviously because it's a huge topic now of what women are making. This is the inaugural first three to four seasons. What kind of money you guys making annually? From the w OH I.
Think the top players were making. I want to say sixty or seventy, maybe sixty thousand, and then the top you know, those top four players had additional marketing deals. We weren't making a lot of money. But to be honest with you, it was it like a summer job, right, So it was a summer job. You were making your money overseas. You came back, you're playing in a WNBA. If you were you know, lucky enough, and you won a championship or two, you got a marketing deal on
the side. I had some you know, some bonuses that you received. And to be honest with you, I was happy because I'm playing in front of my family, my friends, We're having success. You know, h town is in the building.
Is what you wanted ten years ago?
Yes, it's what I wanted, you know, ten years But you know, can you imagine, Lord Jesus.
I told them to early.
I say, if the wild oh well it came ten years ago, should have my ten twelve championship.
Me and the W at twenty five instead of thirty five. And my first step at thirty five.
Was still still a problem.
Man, a problem. And so but I don't regret it. I mean, I don't regret laying the foundation. I don't I don't regret, you know, bringing my A game because I did that purposefully. You know, it was it was on purpose that I brought my A game because I felt like if I brought my A game, gonna lay a foundation of solid foundation, not just a foundation, a
solid foundation for the next generation. Right, They didn't know I was playing because of that, or playing hard every single game because you know, I have to show these fans that women's basketball is legit. Like I remember, I was in New York City. I'm walking down the street getting ready to go to Nike Town. I'm getting ready to go to Nighttown. I'm just walking down street in New York City. Dude hops out of a taxi and goes, oh my god, you're sent to you a Cooper. Listen, y'all.
I made it. Man, if you get recognized in New York City, come on now on the street with a random dude hopping out a taxi, you made it. Like that's that's life. Come on the kid from Watts right. And so it just made my day.
Man.
I start, we took pictures. I was gonna get them some shoes, Like, dude, I love this. I made it in life.
I love it.
I love it well obviously, I still feel I think a lot of people feeling you weren't celebrated enough and weren't given enough flowers.
For what you did.
Everything you just said, you paved a solid foundation, help pave a solid foundation for what the game is today. And I think, what this is, your twenty eighth of the league. We got to do something to celebrate.
Well, I'm here right, this is a celebration right now.
We gotta do something bigger than this to celebrate well.
I will tell you. I will tell you. You know, I love to see the success that the w is having right now, like I love it. I mean, that's why we did what we did, to make the sacrifices you make, and you know, keep going hard so that you see these players have the success they're having now and you see the level of talent grow and grow and grow, because now you can dream of playing pro ball.
Here, you know what I mean?
And not just for women, like you know, like I went through my own little overseas thin growing up, but like knowing your story coming out of high school like that helped a lot of people, not just women, to help men too, just like you can go overseas and still you know what I'm saying, still make it happen.
That's that's your that's your journey. It's not the end. And don't think your career is over.
That you because you're going overseas and you really got the NBA dreams, you still can make it.
So your story up to a lot of people.
You know, I appreciate that. I really appreciate it. And you know what it was. It was real. It was the real deal. Like I I didn't cut corners. I you know, I did what I had to do.
And that's all ball down to what you gotta do, make the sacrifices, and then and then state of course, you know, be a finisher and what you do, don't just limp across the finish line.
You know, be a solid finisher so that you can leave a legacy of hard work and a legacy of winning. You know, I'm in it to winning. I'm not just a participate participating.
Quick first thing to come to mind, let us know, top five women basketball players ever?
In your opinion?
Top five women's basketball players ever? Can I can? If? Absolutely so, I would say myself.
So.
Cynthia Cooper Diana Tarassi, Maya Moore?
How mean is that? Three?
I will say top five Lisa Leslie. I like Lisa. This is of all time Shrumler.
So you Sharyl, Lisa, Diana.
And Maya Moore to Yukon two US three U s.
C was cold. She just didn't play a long time.
She was, she was, she had to shut it down.
I'm so nice, Yeah she was.
She was a best. Most underrated food spot in l A underrated Papa's Chicken.
Let me rephrase myself because term when I say l A, term say comptonent in l A.
So do you consider watch l A? Yes, because they say confident. We don't. We don't call Compton l A. That's the term saying.
Hey. First of all, I would just tell y'all real quick. When I was growing up, Compton was the suburbs.
Okay, okay, Now they had nice houses, the project, you know, nikas and guards and imperial courts.
Yeah.
Then we moved up to over there by Jordan Down. You know, we had a little apartment where eight kids were in too bad anyway, I'm gonna go there.
Yeah.
But yeah, so underrated uh food spot in in in Los Angeles. Let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see. Now, I'm I'm gonna stick with pop.
Yeah. Childhood crush.
Oh Mark Robbins Robins, Yeah, y'all know Mark. He was my first boyfriend ever.
Mark Robin I don't know. I don't know.
Terry Briscoe, Terry Briscoe my you know, you know from Valerie Briscoe, her brother anyway, cause I ran track, you know anyway. Uh, he took me to the prom. I had a Jerry Crow then too, both have curls.
What could you have a celebrity crush growing up?
Celebrity crush? No, I didn't. I didn't really have a celebrity crush. I didn't really watch TV week.
Yeah.
I was hooping or running track or running from people or you know. That's how that's how I got my change of direction. I got my change. Come on now, I'm running, I'm getting right. I don't I used to play tag in the junk yard. Come on, now, you right around the card. Don't touch me, not tag direction, baby, come on now.
One word to describe Caitlin Clark.
Amazing a beast. She is the truth, and I mean she she's the truth. And she was a rookie, right, not not down the three pointer, get to the rim, she can get to the free throw line. She she's crafty, yeah, very crafty, crafty. So sometimes she's looked like she's coming off for a three point shine and she back doors you for a layup. She gets her teammates involved, she can pass, she can shoot, man, she is a complete
basketball player. You know what I want to see. You know, so many people talked about Sabrina and Steph you know with that three point shooting contest. You know what I want to see in the w NBA All Star Game. I want to see Sabrina and nesc you shoot against Caitlyn.
Yeah, me too.
I want to see that three facts.
Hopefully it'll be there with it's in Indiana this year, right, yep, again that the NBA was there.
Yeah, one album and repeat.
Oh Luther anything, Luther.
Big Luther, definitely, definitely yeah Luther. And my second choice would be Yolanda Adams. You know, you know, I'll be so many people think, you know, I got this music, hip hop music blasting in my headphones before a game, and really, you know, I'm between Luther, Whitney and and Yolanda because shoot, I'm already hyped for the game. I don't need to get.
More already ready.
Yeah, yeah, So yep.
Rate these three names, m J, Kobe Bro.
MJ is one. I'm gonna have to go with my boy Kobe as two that's how I do it too, and Lebron three.
But Lebron is a beast.
The longevity the game, the pressure he's been under to perform every single year, and he shows up and shows out every time. Yeah. But when you talk about mentality, though, you gotta talk about cob When you talk about just the mentality, just the assassin type of mentality, you gotta you gotta mention Kobe's name every single time, like how he confronted a game, how he confronted practice workouts, and
you know, I'm with him. People want to know how you become a Hall of Famer when you start playing basketball at fifteen, is that you put into work right. You put in the work when nobody else was looking. You put in the work right. And Kobe talks about his work ethic all the time, And damn, m J, he was way before his time. He just he just just nobody can stop him. Like what whatever era he played in, he would have been m J.
Him.
If you could see one guest on our show, who would it be? But you have to help us get your answer on our show.
Wow, set up.
It is a setup. If I could see anybody, I would love for you guys to have juju.
Yes, great call.
Program, big fan, Cynthia, thank you very much.
Do we have We don't have our bag. Where's our bag? Okay, it's upstairs. Okay, well so yeah, we got gear for you.
Everybody else normally get bags. This is.
No just kidding. Thanks for having me.
Now, Thanks for coming even though we got a whole standoff right next door going on. If we want to apologize to that, we didn't think it would go down and yeah, goddamn this is he I guess so.
But thank you. We appreciate you very much. Continued success. Again, we need to tell your story more on a deeper level. Let's work on that.
Let's work on it.
Pleasure.
You know a lot about a story, and I'm honored, big fan, coming from Texas, so to have you on the show, it's definitely.
Honor for me. Thank you.
I appreciate it.
Cynthia Cooper, all the smoke you can catch your son all the Smoke Productions YouTube, and the DraftKings Network.
We'll see y'all next week. M