Crooked NBA Statkeepers, 40/20 Rule, Ryan Garcia/Canelo ft. Pablo Torre | All The Smoke UNPLUGGED - podcast episode cover

Crooked NBA Statkeepers, 40/20 Rule, Ryan Garcia/Canelo ft. Pablo Torre | All The Smoke UNPLUGGED

Mar 05, 202438 min
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Episode description

ATS Unplugged is coming in HOT this week. The guys are joined by Pablo Torre to discuss his story on the rigged NBA stats of the 90s, the difficulties of an athlete entering and athlete space, and more. Plus, they talk all the latest boxing drama around Ryan Garcia & Canelo. They also talk about Phil Jackson's 40/20 rule and which teams have a chance to break it this year.

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Transcript

Speaker 1

A message to Dan Levintard. I want to be with him for a second. Our money better be fucking on time, Dan, better be on fucking time.

Speaker 2

Welcome back, unplugged, our weekly look around. What's going on, what's going on out there in sports, what's going out there in the world. Jack just got back from Oak Hill Hall of Fame jersey retirement. Had some of the other homies up there. I got Steve Blake, Brandon Jennings, Quinn Cook, Jeff McGinnis to name a few. Coach Steve Smith, how was it.

Speaker 3

Shout out Kat too as well. Kat was a part of that class. He just didn't graduate from ok Hill, but he still is in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 4

It's just honor, man. That's something I wanted, you know.

Speaker 3

What I mean. I was glad we was able to deal in. I was able to come down there and grab some footage and document this whole thing. It was special to be back because my first time being back since I graduate, so a lot of memories, great times. Get the time to see coach and his wife and their family, and getting my jersey retired there or something I really wanted.

Speaker 4

So now I feel a peace with basketball. I love it.

Speaker 2

Congratulations. What about the white guy that gave you guys moonshine and mushroom weed. A little bit about that experience.

Speaker 3

Shout out to the homie chad Man. We're gonna get back. Well, we're gonna get back out there and rocket Chad. He's he's a fishing guy, trout and big mouth bass. He does a fishing guy and he has a big old house and a lot of land on top of the hill where he wrints his house. I was the Airbnb and he does a lot of great things. But we met him and had a couple of drinks with him. He was a big fan. Been watching OK for a while and he said he meet us when we get done, you know, come back.

Speaker 4

He has some shrooms for us and some moonshine and some weed. So I'm like cool, you know, I like the little moonshine from the country. You know.

Speaker 3

His moonshine was nay one, you know, you know, I was the smoke of course, the smoke weed.

Speaker 4

I dabbled in the shrooms and the gummy shrooms. But it kind of he this was different. Matt.

Speaker 3

When he went out when he was handing, he handed us the moonshine bam, and I'm thinking, okay, he's gonna do two more. Handed off, He's going to hand off the weed. Didn't hand off the shrooms, well, I would, sir. He handed off one bag and he had the stems of the weed. I mean, if the shrooms grown in the weed said you gotta smoke them, no, cirt, no, sir, scared.

Speaker 4

No, I wasn't scared. I wasn't doing it.

Speaker 2

I hit it one time just to see where it takes me. I wouldn't smoke ale a whole joint, but I hit it one time to see where it takes me.

Speaker 4

I didn't know. I didn't know that you can do that or they go together like that.

Speaker 5

I never heard. I never heard of it either.

Speaker 2

It can't be no worse than the uh than the butt naked you did that one time?

Speaker 3

Yeah I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, So if so, if if if the mushrooms steming weed, I ain't gonna have me tripping like the shrom.

Speaker 4

Had me, then I might try.

Speaker 2

Nah, I think you'll be all right, But you said you ain't been been the same since he still had that little that that nervous twitch. Anyway, you guys can check out Jack's journey coming out of all the smoke productions YouTube, So it's show some little behind it t s of that also, Jack, Urban legend or not rumor has it? Urban legend has it that you're the only player in Oak Hill history who had on the road to room with the coach.

Speaker 4

Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, man, I'm the only player. You know. That's cool because you know, I wait, Bro, I was writing letters home.

Speaker 3

I felt like I was in jail, so I was trying to escape any chance I got.

Speaker 4

Bro.

Speaker 3

Yeah, we went on the road, man, Coach Price had to make sure he put his bed.

Speaker 4

In front of the door and all that. Bro, I was a nuisance.

Speaker 5

Oh that's funny, funny. You missed, we missed. We missed you out here in l A at the How was your weekend?

Speaker 1

Man?

Speaker 5

Man, we had a great We had a great.

Speaker 2

Hey, I couldn't be there, broreak house. Yeah, we got it in the crew was there. We ate good, we smoked good. We took some gummies. They weren't intertwined, but I had a really good time. No, they wasn't intertwined. We wasn't playing with that. We had a good time, man, and ended up eating some good dinner. Everyone had good time. Johnny was there. We got it in so we had a good time. Show Love DJ.

Speaker 4

Quick, DJ Quick.

Speaker 2

DJ Quick. So it was another dude and I forgot his name. I feel bad, but DJ Quick came because I just wanted Quick to come chill. So he you know, he's there, and he starts kind of like, so, m B, you think I get on, you think I can DJ, I'm like, ship, you want to DJ? I wanted you to just come cheers like now, hell no, I want to get on the thing. So he gets something. We're about to set up, and the motherfucker spills his drink on the mixer and fries it.

Speaker 4

Wow.

Speaker 5

So he ended up.

Speaker 2

We ended up trying to get we got something else to replace, and he did one live song, uh, and then a couple couple of songs.

Speaker 5

And then he was chilling. But that ship, we had a good time.

Speaker 4

I'll be there for the big day. I ain't gonna miss that one.

Speaker 5

Oh yeah, yeah no, that was just to tune up man.

Speaker 2

Big shout out to our brothers, Pat McAfee man who obviously came through and blessed us for All Star and Indy.

Speaker 5

You know you've known him for a while.

Speaker 2

I've been a fait him for a while, but his audience was heavily involved. He's got a colt following and I love it. You know, a lot of they were in the comments and he was in the comments and just great feedback with our fans. So hey man, shout out his fans because hopefully some of them are now are fans.

Speaker 4

Yeah, he's something nice masters to me and appreciate that.

Speaker 3

What happens on the show, you say, and John himself probably one of the best interviews he had, so yeah.

Speaker 5

Well that worked out.

Speaker 2

Moving on, Phil Jackson, the zen Master used to have a saying about the forty twenty role, and we're about the sixty game mark of the season and to be considered a true contender, he felt like you had to have forty wins before you had twenty losses. And to back that up, the last twenty seven out of thirty NBA champions have lived up to that. Only three haven't, the Pistons. So the Pistons, the Heat, and the Bucks. Right now, currently there's four teams that fit that build, Denver, Boston, OKC,

and Minnesota. Jack thoughts on the forty twenty and do you see any of those four teams winning it, and is anyone left off who's not in the forty twenty.

Speaker 3

I mean, the proof's in the put. He got a point. I mean, look at those teams. Denver definitely have a chance to winning. Boston Show. Okay, see is the best team in the West right now, min is the second to third. So yeah, I mean, all those teams definitely have a great chance. So it makes a lot of sense with Bill Jackson talking about if I had to throw one more team in that, Matt, for me, I think it would be.

Speaker 4

I think it would be the Lakers.

Speaker 5

M dark horse.

Speaker 4

Right now.

Speaker 2

I think when I ain't mad at that, I feel like they're built for the playoffs. I feel like they're built for the past. I'd probably throw the Clippers in that mix. Although they're five and five in their last ten they struggled a little bit, but they've been the hottest team in basketball since that that hardened trade, and then possibly me and Milwaukee in the Eastern Conference that they can kind of find their rhythm, get hot, and dot can help get them to the Promised Land. But yeah,

I'm definitely not mad at that. You know, I picked the Clippers don't win it all, but Boston's looking tough. And then you can't rule out you got to beat the champs to become the champs. So Demmer's right in that mix. Will be interesting to see what okay See in Minnesota could do. They're both young teams, so to me, they still got to prove it. But definitely having great season so far. There was an incident jack Jalen Green and Bradley Beal and I was getting tagged all weekend.

I didn't know what the fuck was going on. And it was you know, Bradley Beal faked the ball in Jalen Green's face, but he actually like hit him a little bit with the ball like it was a love tap. Yeah, yeah, it was a love tap. But thoughts thoughts of just those two going back. You know, obviously Jayden Green the young hungry dog, Bradley Bell is a proven killer in this league.

Speaker 5

Thoughts about that, and so you get a chance to see it.

Speaker 3

It was cute. I mean it was cute. I knew what was gonna be no hands thrown, so yeah, it was cute.

Speaker 4

It it was.

Speaker 3

It wasn't as intense as your you and Kobe, I know, I told him.

Speaker 4

I would have liked that could have cleared the ben.

Speaker 2

If I would have really hit him that sh it would have probably broke his nose because I was I put that ship hard. But I like the competitiveness. Again, I'm a fan of Jaalen Green. I think he's super talented. Obviously, Bradley Bill has been injured, but he's proven what he what he means to this game, what he could do. But I just liked the back and forth because there's there's so much buddy ball out there these days.

Speaker 4

I like him.

Speaker 2

There's a little bit of fight between the guys. Brian went Horse, someone who actually liked I used to work with over at ESPN. I wasn't a fan of what he said, but what he says, if AI were to play today, he'd be heavily criticized. He played a lot of minutes and chucked up a lot of shots that would not fly the day. Crazy statement, But I'm gonna let you have that one first.

Speaker 3

Well, Brian, I mean, have fun, because the days of people looking at you and listening to you talk about sports, it really ain't adding up, okay talking about AI be heavily criticized while you're just sitting there heavily.

Speaker 4

Look, bro, we're not doing that, okay, Brian.

Speaker 5

Yeah, and again, I like Wendy, I just didn't like this comment, you know.

Speaker 3

And the first time he said some off the wall lass shit like he got fifteen to twenty rebounds a game.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but I mean t Mac, Vince, Paul, Pierce, Gilbert, all these guys you know, shot low forties back then.

Speaker 5

He was talking about the shooting percentage. I also think the defense was a little bit more physical.

Speaker 2

Back then. But I mean, I think if Ai played today, he would be probably arguably, you know, up there with Lebron is one of the biggest players in the world because his ability to cross over on and off the court, what he meant, the culture, who he is, what he stands on. So definitely didn't agree with that, but hey, I guess everyone's entitled to their opinion. Jack Boxing Canelo Benavidez. Canelo has turned down a ninety two to eight split, which would mean Canelo would got ninety two percent of

the purse. Benavidez would have only got eight, and Canelo denies that is he running jack.

Speaker 3

I mean, you know, that's basically how it looks to everybody like you gotta you gotta give Canelo's credit. He's been fighting for a long time. He's damning fight everybody

definitely wanted to, you know what I'm saying. So definitely one of the great he and he has the right to choose who we want to fight and direct his crib, to direct his career the way he wants to and fight he wants right, and he wants to fight a Meskan fighter because he says he wants to respect, respect Messican fighters and bring some of that revenue to Mexico.

Speaker 4

And all that, and we all get all that.

Speaker 3

But Bena Videz is probably the biggest Mexican fighter next to Canelo, So why wouldn't you fight him? So to the fans, Matt to the fans when Bena Videz is, We're willing to take five million from five millions your fifty five million just to fight you and beat you, because he says that he know the money will come after. To the fans, yeah, he's running from him. But to a person like me, who I love being to Videz, I'm good friends with his pops.

Speaker 4

I want to see him fight Canelo. But if Canelo don't fight him.

Speaker 3

I don't lose no respect for Canelo because he had he has earned the right to call his own shots.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I'm not mad at that. He's been in the game for a long time. But you know, we all always want to see these big these big fights. But to turn down a ninety two eight, I don't know if there was I mean, what ninety five to five? I mean shit, But I mean what else is there? Definitely not about the money. I don't think for Canelo either. He got so much money. So we'll see if that eventually happens. Man, I wanted to send out, you know,

thoughts and prayers or Ryan Garcia. He just released a video as we were coming on air talking about it. He's okay, but there's some shit going on where he's locked out of his phone, locked out of his IG, his bank account, people, his credit cards are frozen. So somebody's over here fucking with him. But Jack, I don't know if any of this, You know, it's hard to say. Is this is this a play to bring attention to the fight? Is it is it? Is it funny business? Is it is it real?

Speaker 5

Like we don't know.

Speaker 2

Again, we don't want to make any accusations because all this is alleged. But uh, you know, what are your thoughts when you hear obviously he's supposed to be fighting Hainy soon. Thoughts on this situation with Ryan Garcia.

Speaker 3

To me, I've met Ryan, He's a good you know, We've got a chance to interview him and spend some time when Ryan's a good kid man, and it's going to be a superstar and the mega star you know.

Speaker 4

From from from uh to go on for a long time.

Speaker 3

I think Ryan is gonna have two or three more fights and become a superstar as far as acting or something like that on TV.

Speaker 4

I don't think he's gonna fight for too long.

Speaker 3

But I actually think he's more scared of scared of this fight than he was with Tank. But it's simple fact that yeah, yeah, you know you're going to You're going into a situation with Tank with you the bigger fighter, and as you if you know anything about boxing, the way he came out, he came out confident. He really felt like he was gonna be Tank. You know what I'm saying, because he was the bigger fighter. You're not

the bigger fighter no more. And you and you know, what Devin Handy and you know how good Devin Handy has gotten. And I think, I honestly think everything that's filing down that's happening right now with him is because he's worried about this fight. He's I think he's scared of Devin Haney. I don't think. I don't think all this stuff is coming from outside nothing. Matt, he know, he know he didn't sign the contract to fight somebody, and he canna get his ass with Ooh.

Speaker 5

I mean the pops has been going at it too.

Speaker 2

I guess uh Garcia's pop says something out of pocket of Haines's dad. I guess Haydes's dad was just on it is what it is with Cam and Mace. Gotta make sure we check that out. But yeah, it's gonna be a good fight. Man, It's definitely gonna be a good fight. I mean, it could be the Floyd Floyd Mayweather Jake Paul playbook, you know where you're just stirring up, you know, some ship before the fight to get more eyeballs.

Speaker 4

But uh, I agree this should look real ry.

Speaker 2

Yeah, Ryan well Man with definitely saying prayers out to him. Man, hope see he's able to get through this and and and lock back in on on the fight.

Speaker 4

Yeah, definitely rooting for him.

Speaker 2

All right, now, Jack, we want to welcome one of our brethren from the Metal Lark Family, former ESPN analyst Pablo Tory. Thank you for taking time. Who's the host of Pablo Tory finds out? Also I heard I don't know if it's it's true or not, but you're a cannabis consumer and you enjoy partaking in cannabis at times.

Speaker 1

I have the argument, guys, thank you for having me. I have the argument that I'm ready to make that New York is now the most weed friendly state in the Union.

Speaker 6

And I lived at experiment every day.

Speaker 2

I mean, I'm taking we're gonna have to battle this. I'm taking walks down the streets smoking joints and cali and they're not saying nothing.

Speaker 4

I don't know.

Speaker 3

Let me, I'm gonna both. And it's been legal. We've been smoking in restaurants since then. So I don't know what y'all talk about.

Speaker 5

I don't know in a restaurant actually, but was like.

Speaker 6

An episode of my show that I need, I need to litigate for real. Yeah, all I know is that bodega's.

Speaker 1

You know, all I know is that we got bodega's here that sell weed and growing up in the city. This feels like literally a dream journal entry that I had once like one day, one day this would be the case and now and now it's real. So until until all three of us get arrested for various things that we've just said and implied, we can continue the debate.

Speaker 5

Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2

Hey, Well, recently, uh, you know, you shoot a show about four times a week where you go down rabbit holes and and and find out interesting things and report. I interested think one thing that came to our team's attention was a former scorekeeper from the Vancouver Grizzlies who admits they were juicing the stats in the nineties. Talk to us about that interview, what you took away from it and was it really that? Was it the norm back then?

Speaker 4

Yeah?

Speaker 1

Yeah, this is just one of the craziest stories I've ever worked on. And so I got a shout out Tom Haberstrow, who's the correspondent we had on this piece. Because Tom did the interviews, did the data analysis, and I had the reaction that I think a normal person would have, which is I cannot fucking believe that this went on like this. And so the story is about a guy who posted on a message board back in now years and years ago that he was juicing stats.

Remember that there's a famous game. He worked for the Vancouver Grizzlies as a scorekeeper, but he was a Laker fan. And I don't know if you guys remember the Nick van Exel twenty three assist game from back in the day. So van XL had twenty three assists and this guy posted on a message board anonymously. His name was Alex from then that was his user name. He said, I'm the guy responsible Van Xell did not actually have twenty three assists. I'm the guy who boosted the stats. I

invented many of those assists. And so this became a story on the internet at that point. And what Tom and I did was go and figure out, like who Alex from the Navy actually was and what his whole deal in reality was. And it turns out that Alex from the Navy was a real person. He was a real guy. His name was Alex Rucker, we revealed in the episode. And if the name Alex Rucker rings any

sort of a bell. It's because this man went from scorekeeper to the actual Navy but then he went on to become the executive vice president of basketball operations of the Philadelphia seventy six ers under Brian Colangelo. Wow, and so that guy is the same guy. I lead our discussion with that because we he confesses to what you asked about, Matt was how how prevalent was this? He says it happened everywhere in the nineties because he was a nineteen year old dude who was given the power

to basically track NBA history. So I'm curious if this is surprising to you guys that one guy had this kind of a power in the first place.

Speaker 5

I don't, and I think I'll take this first. It doesn't surprise me.

Speaker 2

You know, you look at the refereeing situation where they only try to say it was one person, but you know a lot of guys that played in the league would would like to say that's some bullshit. And then you look at this and it makes sense. I mean, that didn't makes sense, but I understand it. I mean, it reminds me of when my high school coach used to give me five dollars and let me do my

stats in high school. You know, I'd watched the film and I'd had three or four rebounds here, a couple of assists here, a block or two here, and it's just like I got the five dollars for lunch and I was cool. So this is crazy to hear, and if it is true, or it is true, I wonder, like who benefited the most? You know, obviously I heard

I saw something. I didn't get see the whole interview, but it was obviously you know, this is entertainment and they want to start to be stars, and that one nine assists or nine rebound looks a lot better if it says tim, you know what I mean, especially for the particular stars. So I just wonder, as a fan of the game in the nineties and someone who went in the early two thousands, like who benefited the most from those you know, from juicing the stats what they say?

Speaker 4

Yeah, I believe it.

Speaker 3

I believe It's there's so much politics in the game and so much bullshit in the game.

Speaker 4

I'm not surprised.

Speaker 3

I'm not surprised there was boos and stats, and was surprised they wouldn't giving people stats. Shit, I'm not surprised to anything from that. You tell me about the league today, because I tell you, as time goes on, you're gonna be hearing more and more in bullshit, just like you heard about the shit about the league trying to downplay the Big Three.

Speaker 4

So you're gonna continue to hear more and more shit. Trust me.

Speaker 1

Well, this is the thing, Like I wasn't a guy who smelled bullshit where whenever I came around the game, right, Like you guys have an internal perspective of cynicism because you guys have seen some.

Speaker 6

Things I felt. I just feel naive.

Speaker 1

Because what this guy was saying was he got trained to be a scorekeeper. He went to this big training that the NBA held, and the examples he was taught as to, like what's an assist? Right, so we're really talking about here are number statistics that are up for human interpretation. So that means assists, that means blocks, that means steals, and so let's just talk about those numbers.

Speaker 6

And so with the assists, what he was saying to Tom was.

Speaker 1

He was shown a video of John Stockton and it was one of those plays where like the assist is made quote unquote, but it's like far more time passing between the assist that they want the scorekeepers to give out and the actual basket. And the explanation told to them was, this is John Stockton, this is a star, like it's entertainment, Like we need to get our stars

to be valued and treated as such. And so what Matcha said about the round numbers is one hundred percent apparently part of the thinking here that John Stockton is a guy who's famous for assists. We got to give John Stockton to Carl Malone that assist, even though there were a couple dribb and a couple more seconds passing in between, which is just wild to me.

Speaker 5

Mm hmmmmmm. That's definitely interesting.

Speaker 2

And and you like, like Jack said, to be able to pull the sheet down and and kind of see the inner workings.

Speaker 5

I think it's all mafia.

Speaker 6

Well okay, well listen, listen.

Speaker 1

I cannot confirm or deny the family the familiar part of this, but I'll answer your question about who benefited the most, right, and so think about it through this lens. So this guy comes to us and he says, okay, I did it. I'm a Vancouver Grizzlies stack keeper and the So there are two groups of people that I think benefited the most. One group was, of course, the Vancouver Grizzlies, and so shred Raheem had his stats boosted. I mean, all you go down the list and it's well,

I think I think it's that era. But let me let me let me give you the thinking. Right, this is an expansion team. The Grizzlies were just founded. And so even he said, even when he gave Van Excel the twenty three assists and this is the opposing player, what he was told by his bosses within the Grizzlies was great job. That makes it more likely that we're gonna be on Sports Center.

Speaker 6

Right.

Speaker 1

So the team, the logo, the very basic fact that these Grizzlies existed. They just wanted any kind of exposure

because an expansion team needed to advertise itself. And so that's the level of thirst that people had in the nineties for just getting any sort of television attention, which again I don't know when you guys played in Canada, when you were playing the Grizzlies of the Raptors, if you noticed anything fishy, But you go to the stats and the Raptors another expansion team huge enormous discrepancy between home and road splits when it came to the when

it came to those stats being interpreted, Canada was one of the big beneficiaries of the stat inflation of the nineties.

Speaker 6

Just the whole country, the whole country.

Speaker 1

The exchange rate was wh Yeah.

Speaker 2

Another one that you just did something recently. Uh, you gave your brutally honest review of athletes and alcohol.

Speaker 4

Uh.

Speaker 2

You know, Jack and I and our team are about to drop a mescal soon, so we were kind of interesting to hear your your breakdown and your reasons why. But you you know, just some of the athletes you reviewed were Steph's bourbon, Harden's wine, Lebron's tequila, MJ's tequila.

Speaker 5

Take us into that and what you found.

Speaker 1

Okay, I have questions for you too about this, because I'm gonna have to disclose when I taste test your mezcal that I'm compromised by being in am glad.

Speaker 6

Of getting this out of the way.

Speaker 2

Hey, hey, hey, the rest of the world is always compromised somewhere another our favor.

Speaker 6

We'll we'll go with it for real, for real, for real.

Speaker 1

But it's funny, So Okay, So I'll center on on on on Michael Jordan here because I can bridge the two episodes that we're describing. So one episode is about stat inflation, the other one is about uh Me and Katie No and in an alcohol expert named Jason Wilson just reviewing, actually are these athlete alcohols any good?

Speaker 4

Right?

Speaker 1

And I would say that the biggest beneficiary actually of both stat inflation and alcohol review inflation is Michael Jeffrey Jordan. And I'm gonna connect these two dots, right, So, Michael Jordan, you look at his DePoy defensive player of the Year stat from eighty seven eighty eight, enormous, enormous home road discrepancy hit one hundred and sixty five steals at home eighty four blocks. Okay, away ninety four steals forty seven blocks.

So just a crazy discrepancy in terms of just Michael Jordan's defensive stats from the year that he is now hailed as like best defensive player of the year. Lebron could never because he doesn't have a defensive Player of the Year award. Michael Jordan benefited in our analysis from the home cooking So just crazy. How does that make you guys feel before I get to then getting to his tequila, because that one was a big bob from here.

Speaker 2

I mean, like I said, like I said, it's dope that you guys, you know, were able to bring that that that inflation of life. But I just kind of always felt like it. You know, I would see stuff and obviously looking back now and thinking about this, I mean I would see I'm just like, damn, I don't recall all those you know, I don't call all that. I don't call all these steals. I don't call that.

Speaker 5

You know, he had that many blocks, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2

And you think about it because no matter what you said, a lot, but ninety eight percent of the players look at the stat sheet at halftime and after the game, you know what I mean, So when you sometimes you do see some weird shit on there, like oh okay, so but like Jack said, I mean, it's still MJ. But yeah, the discrepancy, the numbers don't lie, The numbers don't lie.

Speaker 1

It's just it's just very conspicuous. And I grew up, I should say, I grew up with Jordan Stan you know, I'm a child of the nineties, even though i' from New York.

Speaker 6

So I worshiped at as.

Speaker 1

Altar, right, and so I'll take us to the tequila now because.

Speaker 6

I thought his shit would I'm sorry.

Speaker 2

I'm sorry, of Metal Lark, send your questions and you're a mail to him.

Speaker 6

I'm playing, that's right, I mean, I'll take it.

Speaker 1

I'm already at war with various members of the Jordan family because of this Larsa Pippen Marcus Jordan episode we did, which was not received.

Speaker 6

Warmly by the estate.

Speaker 1

But Yo, this tequila, man, it's like one hundred and ten something dollars and it look I'm not I'm not a professional alcoholic critic.

Speaker 6

It just wasn't good.

Speaker 1

It didn't It didn't taste like what I thought tequila would taste like. It felt like it was trying to be very smooth. It felt like it was trying to be you know what. You can tell something's trying to be expensive.

Speaker 6

But it's like.

Speaker 1

Just it just it just feels it feels like synthetic in that way doesn't feel I don't know, I want to know how you guys said about trying to figure out how to make a mescal. That feels like, you guys, that's not trash, because I can tell you, at the highest level of this alcohol athlete game, there's some ship out there that I was stunned.

Speaker 5

By, as far as good or bad, as.

Speaker 6

Far as bad, as far as look, it's just.

Speaker 1

There are a lot of people who are trying to tell UH stories about and again I look, there there's a mythology around athletes, which I think is of course part of the branding, But then when it's applied to the alcohol, it's just hard not to like laugh and just be like, but is this any good? And so for me, I was just disappointed that all of this money did not result in better alcohol.

Speaker 2

Not for so you didn't find any You didn't find any that were solid or at least decent.

Speaker 6

You know who's you know, this ship was good? So Lebron's wasn't bad.

Speaker 1

Lebron's was pretty good, the Lobos tequila not bad.

Speaker 4

I thought.

Speaker 1

Among wines, CJ. McCollum did a great job. I think he was actually the one who's I'm not a huge wine guy, but in terms of like the consensus and the reviews, I would say that that one deserves the highest grade of all the things we tried. But how how did you guys approach the idea of a mescal then, because all of this stuff is is you know a.

Speaker 3

Lot of people they just want to put somebody name on it and trying to make money of it and not really worry about how.

Speaker 4

The actual product tasts. It's a big difference.

Speaker 3

You know, some some you can you can come up with some stuff and just put a big name on it and it might sell. But then you got some people that that's our game, that really care about the product and that care that you're putting what you putting their name on. So it's a big difference. So I think we follow in the category we care what we put our name on.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it took us a while not to cut you off, Jacket took us a while. We met down, and we went down and met with some people in San Diego, and actually we're taking a trip out to Mexico, I think in April to kind of go see the the the origin of you know, where all of our stuff came from. But I'm a huge cannabis guy off the rip,

you know what I mean. So crossing over into alcohol, I'm a social kind of If I do drink, it's a social cheers or but you know, nine times out of ten, I'm smoking weeds, So our thing was all lead.

Speaker 5

He still leaves smoky.

Speaker 2

Obviously the smoky part came with all the smoke.

Speaker 5

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2

But at the same time, when we started trying now just like that, like too much smoke, I wasn't super fan of like smoky, smoky smoky, So we took some of the smoke out, and you know, we'll have to let people decide, you know, what they think. I think,

you know, everyone has their opinions on it. But I feel like our stuff is best because I wasn't a huge you know, we we thought tequila, you know, do we do dark and they said the specifically, yeah, the fastest growing spirit is mescal at the time, you know what I mean. So that's what kind of made us jump in and deter from tequila and the other stuff. But I feel like ours is and I'm like, again, this is coming from someone who's not drinking his life. I feel like ours is best when it's mixed like

with like fresh fresh juice. We have three or four different flavors with the juice. Obviously we have the mescal. But when it's mixed with like, you know, a little.

Speaker 5

Bit of juice.

Speaker 2

Oh man, that's that ship go. So it'll be interestinct, you know, Like I said, you have to be biased. Now, you have to be biased now when you taste started. You can't come on someone else's show like ship.

Speaker 1

The most I was I was processing Matt. I was processing you talking about how actually too smoky is a problem, which is a jarring thing for me to hear from.

Speaker 3

With the whiskey and ride that's it needs to be smoky, but not with tequila.

Speaker 5

Yeah, tequila family.

Speaker 1

And then I was processing Stack's face as he was remembering mixing your mezcal with watermelon, and I was like this, man, is.

Speaker 6

That is what sells your product?

Speaker 4

Is right?

Speaker 3

What you don't know is we have shows where we'll talk about stuff and I'll just go off into my ponder moments. Well, I just get to put myself into exactly what we're talking about, not just living it fus second, live in it for a second.

Speaker 4

That's what that was.

Speaker 1

How did you guys, Okay, wait, so as a as a tag team on this project, how do you deal with disagreements of taste? Because I imagine you guys are not your ponder moments from you want.

Speaker 3

To work with me, bob blah, because I'm going with the flow type of guy. I don't complain about much. The only thing I can play about the money being late. Everything else that got me. I got a million ideas. I'm rocking with him. I don't even have to know what it is. I'm behind him. But when that money late, you got to see me.

Speaker 5

Yeah, so I.

Speaker 6

So soll levantard that. By the way, that's real, right, lebtard. This fucking money is laid.

Speaker 1

You gotta see stacking in behind him somewhere hiding as me, but in front of me is stacked right.

Speaker 2

No, I mean Jack, you know, Jack kind of trusted the team, you know, me and a couple of other people went out there and tasted and saw where it came.

Speaker 5

From, and then and and and and and.

Speaker 2

Tried different kinds and and actually learned about the orange and cinnamon at the same time. Because have you ever ever ever you had orange and cinnamon after a shot of anything?

Speaker 5

Oh man, no, get with it. Orange and cinnamon all right, there it is. Yeah, we got our little labeling right here. Check that out, bottle.

Speaker 3

Yeah, let me see it.

Speaker 6

Anios as that doubles.

Speaker 1

That's it right there, man, there it is so so anyway we'll get you. I feel like you got so this is this is what I learned. It's what I found out in my alcohol reviewing.

Speaker 6

Is at the field? Why it's wide open?

Speaker 1

Man, everyone's trying to do it, but like there isn't actually a bunch that's really good, like Steph stuff is okay.

Speaker 6

I guess it's.

Speaker 1

Just I think, really what it is, it's what it's lacking for. And you guys have this like coming out of your pores now literally I think, Matt just to concept, so I think, what's coming out of your pores? Authenticity and just like, hey, this is how we use it. This is what we're not, this is what we are, and enjoy it like we would enjoy it as opposed to the mic. Again, I don't know, maybe you guys can put a photo of it at some point in

the edit on this, if there is an edit. But like the Michael Jordan Sincoro bottle looks like a trophy that you get winning like an All Star game event, and it's just.

Speaker 6

Like what is this?

Speaker 1

And so it's promising the greatest tequila you've ever had?

Speaker 6

From the greatest player who's ever lived, and what you get is just like it let me down.

Speaker 1

It was like finding out that his stats were inflated. It was a little bit like that. To be perfectly honest.

Speaker 2

With you, I think it's a fine line between quality and not taking you too serious, because this is not any really union.

Speaker 1

I mean, so listen the self seriousness which you guys do not have about your shit, about your products, about your brand and selves.

Speaker 6

Like that's the thing.

Speaker 1

It's really hard to I guess, look, enter a business that you're not in in the case of alcohol, for all these guys, it's not their thing, and so they go into it like I'm gonna be the best. I'm going to compete in this like it was and it's just like that. You know, Michael Jordan has many ANI hosts, right, many rings, but not not not in this field, not in this middle.

Speaker 5

Can't be good at everything.

Speaker 1

And it's okay, Yeah, absolutely, he's got a lot of win he's got a lot of wins. There's a lot of blocks that he didn't necessarily earn, but also a lot of wins that he did.

Speaker 6

I'm in so much trouble by the.

Speaker 2

Back to how do you how do you guys, you know, figure out what story? Because I'm sure you get a ton of stories. How do you guys figure out what stories to actually, you know, go down the rabbit hole on and and and bring my curiosity.

Speaker 1

Man, Like, I'm a curious person. So I didn't play sports at any high level in any way. Like, let's be real about who I am, what I can and cannot do. But what I am is a guy who is super curious about the way the world works. And so when someone as to me, that's right, if only, if only I went.

Speaker 6

To high school with Lebron James.

Speaker 1

I love Brian, by the way, but Brian is a biographer who also has other talents as a reporter, and he's a great storyteller.

Speaker 6

But I came into this I didn't.

Speaker 1

Have a personal story like that, And so I'm just the guy who tells stories and uses journalism to report them. And so for me, what I want to do is always like Tony Kornheiser taught me this, because I do PTI sometimes and you know, the thing I want to be is just smart and funny, you know, like make people laugh and take yourself too seriously. Like so It's

just as simple as that. But my whole goal is, like, if you listen to an episode, so I'll mention this, this, I'll go back to the Jordan well for a second year because I referred to this right. So I did a story about Marcus Jordan and Larsa Pippen. What do you guys know about Marcus Jordan and Larsi Pippen when I mentioned their names to you.

Speaker 4

The day? And is Jordan's Dan Pippin's ex wife? Yep?

Speaker 1

And so for me, it was this reality television relationship and I wanted to find out, like, what's going on here?

Speaker 6

Is this real? Is this love? What's going on?

Speaker 1

And so I interviewed Marcus and Larsa together and we had a conversation that was great, and they sat down and we sort of put in the context of their lives. And that was an example of this episode where I was like, Okay, this is ridiculous. This is like reality television show trash on the one hand, but also two real people who hadn't been like actually interviewed in this way.

Speaker 6

Like what if I took them seriously? Was the question I asked myself. And they were great and the only problem was that in the New.

Speaker 1

York Post afterwards there was a headline in which Larca Pippen called me miserable. And so outside of that, I'm on good terms with these people called Yeah, yeah, I'm in various. I should say I'm in various. You've you've aligned yourself with a very dangerous person. It turns out.

Speaker 5

You might have to have bodyguards.

Speaker 1

You know what's funny about Uh? You asked me a question that nothing to do my answer. You asked me how my two story ideas. It turns out I two story ideas in order to one day talk to two guys who lead the league actually in beef and try to outdo them by mentioning all the people.

Speaker 4

Who your well.

Speaker 2

Man, we appreciate you jumping giving us some of your time today. Definitely looking forward to continuing to collab with you guys and Dan and the whole meatalw Lark family and continuing to drow, you know, grow our side.

Speaker 5

And it's definitely a pleasure to be working with you.

Speaker 6

Yeah, man, I got two things at the very end here. Number one is four twenty a week.

Speaker 1

I have ideas. I have ideas for us. Okay, just the tease. The second thing is a message to Dan Levittard. I want to beef with him for a second. Our money better be fucking on time, Dan, you better be on fucking time.

Speaker 5

Have that signed by It's coming from you.

Speaker 2

Sign big big five. Hey, that's Jack's guy now too. Jacksonan gonna fly out to Miami spending time with them.

Speaker 5

They've been.

Speaker 1

I am the officient of Dan Levantard's wedding. I married him in Valerie. I was the priest at that wedding. I love Dan, I love Dan, I love his love. All I'm saying is that his money better be fucking on top.

Speaker 5

You could love a lot of ship and fuck up.

Speaker 2

The one thing you can fuck up is the money to fox all the other good things up. All right, follow man, Thank you for your time today, and we'll catch up with Well. That's a wrap. Thank you to our guest Pablo Jack. Congratulations again on the Oak Hill stuff. You can catch this on All the Smoke Productions YouTube and the Draft Kings Network. We'll see y'all next week.

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