Common | Ep 52 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

for coming already. Now let's jump into it. May you started a a campaign we Matter Too. Can you tell us in the fans what that's about. So that was really, you know, I've been doing a lot of work with with people that's incarcerated, and you know, when COVID hit,

of course they were forgotten. They've been forgotten in many ways before COVID, So um, you know what we did was really team out with different organizations that was already doing some of the work and just start started figuring ways that we can highlight the Hey, some of these people that's been locked up for for charges that we know they should be out on to be getting released. We did a quick short film that was directed by

the sister and ain't Savannah. She did a dope job just giving us a quick view of how people were feeling in there, because you know, as we were talking before off cameras, like, man, a lot of people that I met inside just man, we just need to be heard. We want to be seen, we want to like feel like we are a person and human being. So during this time, they really needed that. So that's why we

decided to get into that. We matter too. I think what's important too, and not just in what you're doing, but overall you partner with people that are already doing something in the space. I think often we think we need to reinvent the wheel. When we don't. We can. We can lend our platform, our voice, our likeness to two groups that are doing great work. They're just seem some magnification, magnification or a little bit of a push.

Oh that's key. That's that's wisdom right there. Because you know, sometimes when you first thinking, like a lot of people say, man, I want to do something. I want to do something, and I first say, man, find out what you care about, what are you passionate about? Like what? And then along with that it's like, man, there's people out there doing that. So find if you can team up with them, and

if you don't find it's the right connection. By point black, I wouldn't be doing I wouldn't have been able to do the work I've been doing in prisons if I didn't team up with where A r c Scomputing because he had already established him been doing it for years. You're just enhanced what he's doing. Yes, simple as that and that and as you said, it's strengthened in the numbers of its just building together. Yeah together. So that's that, man, that's the important like thing for me to be reminded

and remind everybody. Man. And it ain't like we always got to invent the will. Just ready taking your heart and soul and you know stack you've been in it. You've been in it too doing like some of the things you're gonna do, like with with with just your team. Some of it you go team up with other people that's doing it. Some people just go may ask you to just show up for them, and you do that too.

But it's you know, it's all different ways, but it's people that's been doing this work long before, long before everything Everything is really recyclable but what you're doing is similar to what we are there doing in the streets. We're given the voiceless a voice, you know what I'm saying, the narrative, and and this thing of us being twisted and displayed as as thugs and just wrong for so long. We finally have a chance to control our own narrative

and speak our own truths, our own stories. And people that like mothers that have their son's murdered for police justice and and don't have a Stephen Jackson to speak up for them, you know what I mean, they need a voice, and you're doing That's the same way in the prison SYSM with these a lot of guys should definitely be out of jail, probably in jail for nothing, and they don't, and nobody would never know because they don't have a voice, you know what I'm saying. So

what you're doing is similar to what we're doing. I applaud you for that, man, Yeah, give thanks to we I mean for me it even you know, at a certain point, even just when I first stopped rhyming, I was like, okay, I want to just be dope. I wanted to know who I am. That's just the essence of what like I love hip hop, but then eventually just looking around and seeing where I grew up, getting to go to different cities, I was like, man, I got a chance to like really be a voice for

them to do through this through the music. And that's

where the music started becoming that. And then eventually I was like, oh, man, I gotta put my body in this, you know, I gotta be there like for certain things and like start thinking of creative ways to actually see the change happening, like seeing like changing people's lives, right, And like one of the things that we did in California that I'm like always a lot of things I've done and accomplished whatever professionally, Like we've been able to

get some bills passed that was like for for people who was doing serving l WASPS, life without parole, for juveniles who was serving l WASPS, they no longer can be sentenced to life without parole and as a juvenile. And and it took us some time. We was up in Sacramento. We had a concert up there where we you know, Jacole performed with us, Andrew Day. Let us

see different artists. Man, they thought, like ten thousand people gonna show We had like thirty thousand people on the capitol when we rocked, and then the next day we went and went and sat down and met with legislators about like hey, this is some and we sat down with people who you know, it was Republicans, different people.

Wasn't necessarily always with that, but as you said, when we out of voices, for those who don't get a chance to sit in those rooms, you know they're gonna respond then like they're gonna want to sit out and talk. And as long as we you know, know what we're there for and just be from the hot man. We we took some people who was not thinking about prison reform and criminal justice reform. We took them to follow

some prison different government officials. Man, we had them. We had the former chief of staff to the to the last governor of California. God bless us. So she passed. But she sat in the circle with all these men and that were inconcerrating. We just sat man and talked and had man, we said a prayer together. She heard their stories. Some of them brothers that deserve to be out ended up getting out because of that moment. It's just like, man, we gotta be the bridges and the avenues.

And I think that's huge because I mean, they have to feel it and they've never wanted to feel it before. And I think inies now as you have to, you have to step outside yourself because it's bigger than you, and at least try to put our shoes on. You ain't even gotta walk a mile our step, just at least have the you know, the the ability to have enough compassion to be like, Okay, well maybe this doesn't directly affect me, but it doesn't directly affect another human being.

So let me see what this is about. And I think that's what has has brought us. You know, it's been a domino effective negative thing since Kobe, you know, since Kobe passed and then the pandemic and then you know, George passed, But we were all still kind of looking for stuff and we were forced to kind of see that America conty finally reared its nasty head and its

nasty history. And although some people still want to fight in and say there's not issues enough, people of other races have seen that there is a real issue here. So now what is our plan moving forward? And it doesn't just stop with elections in a week. You know, this is this is something that we're we have to carry the torch for like everyone in the past has done for us. It's our turn now and we have to carry the torch and and and November three is

not the finish line. It's really the start, you know what I mean, Because it's it's just a continuous process. And I think in the past people have got gotten a past thing. It's not for me. My voice hasn't heard. You know that my my vote doesn't count, and we are you're right with this, Like now, I think we have to take it as responsibility as as African Americans particularly to understand like what is at stake and everything

we're fighting for now. We may not directly feel, but our kids are gonna feel and their kids are gonna feel, so hopefully they don't have to go through this again. Yeah, that's the man. I mean. The elections is super important. Like you said, that's one aspect, but it's a it's a necessary aspect because ultimately those those policy makers are

making decisions on the way we live. At the end of the day, y'all see the difference in between what's happening in Minnesota and what was happening in Kentucky Like and that's people in government positions who are making those decisions.

I went to Minnesota right after you, but but I went there and just sat down with some community leaders and and their governor and Congresswoman Irhan Omar and it was a congresswoman um Ayana Presley, And I was like, man, these the government men officials who really can't like they had people organize it from the hood there that was like, you know, cast it was like your uncle that was doing it for a long time that he had a

chance to speak. And I was like, man, the fact and the governors and know and the mayor of both cities of St. Paul and in Minneapolis was sitting there listening. No no government officials said nothing. They just listened to the people. And I felt like, you can see the difference between them and the people in Kentucky. They mata

in Minnesota. That's what I'm saying. They make it and and and that to me is a direct thing of us saying, man, we we gotta have elected officials who represent us, who are us, they think like us, and everything is not gonna We're not gonna agree with everything that will. Y'all don't agree with everything your brothers. We brother we ain't gonna agree on everything. But it's like, man, we see this. We got, like you said, the same vision, We got the same We got the same place we want.

And it's politicians out there that that have that. And I think you know, this election is like one of the most They always say it's the most important, but it's is very important because man, it's the step that we're taking. People already in movement, were already moving towards what we're saying that goal. The election gott to happen for certain things. I mean, the voting got to happen

for certain things to keep moving in that direction. And we continue to hold them accountable when we vote for them. But then we do our community work, yes, you know, taking each other while take each other like I always be like, man, it ain't know one or the other. Why can't you know what from doing? But also what people have to realize, and we spoke about this earlier, is it's not just the federal vote like you said, it's the local and state vote that we're talking about.

We directly can we put people in place that are directly responsible for either you know, putting a police chief in the spot. We vote for the mayor, we vote for the d These are all people that have a say or hands somewhat some way into charging these cops. You know. I mean, that's all stuff on that we can see direct turnaround for. So you know, we talked about voting and we gotta wake up and we got to educate ourselves. But we're so far behind because we

were never even supposed to get to this point. We're never supposed to have a footing, we're never supposed to have a voice, so we can't tackle all this ship at once. To me, it's about bite sized pieces. You like you said, start small something. You're passionate Prop sixteen that California is trying to pass, the prop that you

passed with the police reform. Like there's stuff that you can directly see immediate change on when you vote and you see some kind of reward, And then to me, I think that's going to encourage you to be like, Okay, well let me learn about some more stuff and then next time I'm gonna vote for more and continue to educate ourselves, because like I said, we were never meant to have to say anyway, and now that we actually do have a say, what what are we trying to say?

What are we trying to say? And then you know, it is intimidating. I was voted yesterday, um in Chicago. I was in Chicago and I voted, and I was looking and I was like, you know, I had to call and get information on something there point it's a lot,

and then something I just didn't know. So I'm like, Okay, it's intimid that when you look at that ballot and you're like, oh, man, so I understand what you're saying is as far as man, take a step, vote for something that you believe in or something certain people you know, you might not know everybody, but I'm sorry. And and one of the things we're doing, like with this Organization Urgency that we're doing and we've been doing for the past days, is going to different cities and states educame

people on down the ticket. Like we went to South Carolina, we went to Florida, we went you know, we went to Yeah, we're doing swinging states and then some stuff in Wisconsin and saying hey, y'all, these are some of the people and eight black people, brown people, we gotta get out and vote, and like these are people that actually, you know, care for you and they aligned and you know, for me, I'm like, I ain't speaking up for nobody unless out of and sat and looked them in their

house and I know that, like, Okay, you're gonna we're gonna. We got something a lot in alignment, and we're gonna do this. So like Jamie Harrison is one of the people in South Carolina, they got a chance to change those things. And and my thing is educating people, just like I needed to be educated. I ain't know I stayed attorney in Chicago is a woman named Kim Fox who obviously makes decisions on She came for Cabrini Green.

I didn't know about her until it was I was doing a documentary and I got to sit down and build with her. But from that point on, I started like seeing what she was doing in the community and our support her, and it's like a little did I know that that's the woman is making decisions on like if somebody, if a police officer kills you know, I didn't,

I didn't point Blake. I needed to learn that. Like I said, we learned and we find out because, like I said, there's stuff that we can align our likeness to for situations to to shine light on people who really do care about us and really do have our best interest in at heart. But most of the time we don't know, so we don't feel like there's no one to represents us, so we don't vote. Yeah, and then that's what they count on. That's what the other

stuff they they want us not to. They want us to be discouraged like we get this or sometimes with with with do calls because it's very discouraging, you know, voter suppression and all the fake ballots and fake information and fake boxes. I mean, it's tough, but like I said, I think now is the time that we gotta stand

and we have to unite. Like I think it's great that there's so many different I don't recall another time where there are so many people with the platform, whether it's actors, musicians, athletes that are actually you know, talking about voting and talking about registering the vote and how important it is to be a part and have your voice heard, even if we haven't done it in the pastor you don't feel like it's gonna work, it's never gonna change if we don't. So let's let's let's come

together and figure out what we're gonna do. That's what you just said. Like, I'll be like, man, it ain't like even the first time I voted, I was like, man, even if this ship don't count, I just know I did it. I made the effort to try to do it, you know, like and and and it ain't hurt me to like the other day I voted, it took five minutes. So I'm like, I took you know some time. I'm five minutes out of my day. I'm making this effort. I know it's gonna work. I know it's gonna count.

And it is discouraging because I've been a part of things where it's like man, we're going like like like like yeah, and it's but but man, I feel like if I fight, I fight for everything else. Man, I fight for a lot of things, you know, Like and I keep I kept working on my my art phone to get better as an MC. I kept I keep working on my acting. I keep working on different things, like I can keep pushing and kicking that door down for people. You're part of the Showtime family with there

with the show shy. Uh, you know, you do a little executive producing and acting on it. How did that situation come about? You know, Lena Lena away to who created the shot. She she from Chicago and she uh, one of one of my producing partners was like, man, this this assistant with the script is dope. You should check it out. So um I eventually checked it out and I was like, man, this is dope, and I was geeked to that it was a show about Chicago and you know, and she was being creative. It was

like it wasn't like a documentary, but it's dope. You message that thanks and she's dopey. Thank you, man, I really appreciate it, and we Man, I ain't gonna lie have one of the proudest things I'm a part of because you know, first of all, she doing her thing and telling the story, but we got so many like Chicago people working on it was like to go home and be like, man, the makeup artist, I mean, the person to do heir used to do my mother's hair

growing up. You know what I'm saying, Like the locations manager, the black woman from Chicago, actors from you know, It's it's great to be able to go on. The authenticity is that much stronger, you know, when you involved the community that the community feels like they have a hand and like one of the biggest shows on television. Point like that's my city right there. What else are you

working on right now? In in in the creative space acting space, because I know you're you're you're big and I'm a fan like you were one of the guys that like low key crossed over and some people like coming the actor comment like no, the rapper the comming that actually acts to like you've been able to make that transition. So what else he working on in this space? I'm working on a new new film. Actually I'm leaving to go out in a couple of days to go

film this movie called Alice. It's an independent movie um that this woman wrote that named Kristen Verlinden and Kiki Palm and starting in it too. But it's a cool I really like, it's a really dope piece that I'm excited about that. And also working on producing a couple

of TV shows and I'll be acting in and creatively. Also, you know, recorded a new album coming out speak so but thirty If it's called a Beautiful Revolution Part one and the single just dropped yesterday, Black Dog called Say Peace. So man, I got inspired on that. I ain't never made album like in about a month and a half.

I always take a long time, but I was like, man, I just seen I think after being still in the when when the pandemic first hit, and just kind of just getting a chance to reflect on life and where I am, who I am, what I want looking at all, what's going on with people having some time to read just be still. I wasn't trying to write and do nothing at that point. But then eventually as I started getting into the creative like energy, I was like, man, I just was feeling it. So we cooked up. Uh, man,

I got a piece. Man, I can't wait till it's out on the thirties, you know what I mean? Jack, you just dropped your your piece and same energy, you know. That was one thing Jack said that he felt like he's learned so much in this last six eight months, and he then he's ever learned, you know what I mean, And he took it out and put it out in

this music as well. So I'm sure, as you know, to be able to as an artist, to be able to put his feelings out on the paper and then sharing what the world is always a blessing you are. You always been able to do that though, to think as a culture, we expect that from you. We expect that music that's gonna take us there, that that's gonna make us feel what's going on in the days. Yeah,

it's gonna take us there. We expect that from you. Man, I, man, what's going on is like exactly, like that's what I'm on, like meaning I'll be wanting that that music to feel like Marvin Gay or Bob Marley or Stevie Wonder or care Us one. I also feel like it's a duty when you do music that's conscious or or like a where it's still gotta be dope, like like that the

music that I love listening to and grew up. It ain't only just conscious music, but when it is conscious music, it's dopeless that you gotta be dope and you gotta style on it and give that. But but stack you know, probably when you get more information, like you, like you said, you have something to say on on this project, because you know, I mean you rhyme, So you're like, man, I probably you probably like Yo, I experienced all this

different stuff. It was easier this time because I was in the middle of it, like I was, this is my real pain. I wasn't just rapping for the hell of it. Like what I was saying this time with stuff that I've really been, that I really seen and that that I really want to say because I can't get it out in no other way, you know what I mean. And this was totally different than anything I've

ever dropped. Man, I ain't even know that rat would be that for me, but that's what it has been like, certain things you can't get out like in no other way. But just as an artist, especially when you do have an outlet or you discover that this is man something I do, This is what I want to do. And it's always been like I been like that for me.

So if I see other people's pain or I'm experiencing my pain, always been like I'm gonna speak to it, but my my goal is to speak to it and put a charge to it, like get them uplifted and get them out of the darkness. But I'm gonna speak on the darkness if it's there. But it's like, man, I like giving solutions to because I ain't gonna just say, man, we we're in the hole and not be like, yo, let me try to help you get out of this hole if I can. You know, I'm gonna tell you

I got out of this whole help. Well, that's what most people realize too. Whether you're you're putting in your music or you're acting, or we're just speaking out of publicly, most of the time we don't. You know, it's not we know that us sharing our ups and downs or mostly our downs are gonna inspire someone else because look at me coming went through this ship, Jack went through this ship, Matt with the ship, Lebron went through this ship. So I can make it, you know what I mean.

If we can affect one mind or encourage one person out of you know, that's at the end of the days to win, you know, I mean. But when you're able to encourage millions upon millions of people just by being real and spilling spilling your truth, that's where the real reward comes from. Yeah, yeah, you know. I was like, like early on in my career, I was writing a song.

I was writing a song about abortion, and this was like early on, and I was like some ship I had been through with the girl I was with, and I just wrote it because it was like I was reading these different poems poetry, and I was like, man, they'd be saying whatever they feel. So I was kind of like, I'm just gonna go there with it. I might actually just tell this story. And I did, and I put the record. I was a record that Lauren Hill actually singing. And week you know, the rerecord came out.

We just shot a video and everything, and I'm remember performing in the concert and then this dude came up to me afterwards and was like, yo, man, that record man, it's called Retrospect for Life. Was like that record man made me decide to have my child because I was going through the same things and this and that. I was like, yo, I was just telling my stories. I didn't know that this exactly, this thing could really like

shift people's lives like that. That That was one of them moments where you're like, dag, Okay, this is really meaningful and I could do something with this. Growing up in Chicago, basketball has been a part of your life. Most people don't know you want I wanted to be yall know, most people don't know you were a ball boy for the for the Bulls in the eighties and that before JT Therapy. Was there any crossover with m J? Yeah, yeah I was. I was right there when m J came.

I started a year before. How I was like eleven or twelve. Okay, See my father played in the A. B. A a couple of years, so yeah, god, but it's the thank you brother and um rock Thorne was hit one of his teammates. So Rock Thorne kind of was the general manager for the Bulls got me. He said, Yo, you write a letter, you get the job. You know pretty much get the job. So I wrote the letter, I got the job. I was there when Mike first came.

You know, I used to have man I used to get you know, you know y'all used to give away gym shoes after a few games. I used to get gym shoes. I'll be selling them, getting them my teachers. I had a pair of ed Jows, like some of the first jos, and he signed them and I gave him to my father, but my father stopped wearing them. He was wearing them to my shows and something like, yo, yo, you gotta put them job. It is ain't meant to be but yeah, it was. It was an incredible experience,

you know. I was just geek to be around all that and be there when Mike first came. And I remember Mike. Mike was playing um, Hohodini like and he had the radio playing Houdini when he first came, like one of the first exhibition games, and they was like, no, you can't play that music. Then after that first game, you could play whatever he wants. Really yeah, yeah he Mike.

They was like, oh, whatever you want. Any cool one on one interaction you had with him at a young age you can recall just you know, shooting around with him. That's more. Well. One thing happened that that um where I was like, these kids asked me to get an autograph, and I was like, okay, I'll do five dollars. So I went and took it down to Mike. I said, Yo, can you give me get this autograph? He told me to sign it, you know, He's like, oh, you sign

it and signed it. So I signed it and took it up to the kids and the kid looked and was like, man, this ain't Michael because I spelled Michael Row. He was like, man, what the hell? But I mean, obviously I ain't give my five but now, man, I mean even later. You know, as I said, I had hoop dreams. Y'all know that. But but but I saw Mike. This was I played in one of the celebrity games. I thought I did good, and Mike saw me. It was like, man, you better stick to wrapping and acting.

I was like, man, this is you know, m classic got a chance playing the Hoop movie though, Yeah, yeah, just right, yea. Many know she is. She one of my favorite people to collaborate with. People I met in just overall. She loved her so normally this is at the end of the show. But since we're talking about her and you know, or help her get up, we need we need her on the show. Man. Yeah, queen,

she's just down to earth yea. And she doping every aspect we're talking about, like somebody is super dope acting. She could sing right right yeo man, yeah that person. And she beautiful, she beautiful broke she doing that movie. I was like, yo, you know that was my chance to really live out the hoop dreams because I was like playing the NBA. Yeah yeah, the injury had to do the injury and all the injury and all. Somebody called me just yesterday like, yo, you really you did

the injury for real? I was like, yeah, you know, I just wanted to get my all because that was my first my first leading roles too, and it was like kind of living two dreams in one. Okay, I get to play this NBA playing but and it's my first leading role. So man, I gave him all. We did our best. I'm glad to this day people come up to me like, yo, just right movie it's kids and women and be like, you know, that's just right, movie.

I messed with that. Um. Obviously, growing up in Chicago, tons of basketball talent comes through there, and then you also were shaped through basketball and then your creativity with your music and your art. Who is anyone in particular shaped you or inspired you in either of those lanes? Yeah? For me, uh, Isaiah Thomas was like a real inspiration. He being from Chicago, like he was the first point guard,

was like that. I you know, I was like, I mean I saw like Kenny Patterson and cats like that, but they there was from Chicago, so it was like and he was man, he was different. He was a killer. So I love his game. Man, that was that's somebody who really, I would say, and then I ain't a lot like a lot of y'all. You know, we get inspired by y'all because man, y'all made it to the

highest level. Kenney Smith say something that I was like, damn, he said, man, only like five thousand people or something some number like late in the NBA court, and you know how many millions people try to try to make it like, so that's like to be chosen out of like man, some people don't understand. It's crazy. I mean, especially today with the disrespect. Everyone is crazy because they don't have to be helped for your accountable, for your words.

But to be the last minute on the bench like he's a very good player, you go around and bust anybody's asking any kind of gym. But people don't understand because just because you don't get a lot of time on an NBA team, if you have a better chance of being struck by lightning and making it to the NBA, and people don't understand. Like the world wants to be in the world where you keep it real, Like that's the one sport globally that everyone wants to play. Everyone

wants to be Kobe, Mike Lebron. That's the one sport and to make it and have some longevity and there like you really did something. If you have some longevity in a game like that respect to both of your brothers.

I mean, that's like and you know in the breach the highest level and stay there and win championships too, but just even to get there on that court, it's like, I mean still to this day, you see like from I mean from actors to rappers to everybody wanted like you said, where or why I want to do it? Everybody want to everybody want to hoop man, Jacob. I heard Jay Cole going for his Yeah, the Master, he had his run let Jacole, he can get it if you could do what you could do it? What you mean,

I don't don't matter no labels. When do you feel like you found your footing as an artist? You know what I feel like I find my footing. I found it first when I was like going into this album called Resurrection because that was that was four. Because I released the album and it didn't get the response I thought, because you know, when I first I was releasing the music, I was thinking, Okay, people released the album, they got a video they made it, but I did, I released

it and people weren't responded to it. So it made me have to do a lot of souls so you know, and just be like, man, you gotta get better. This ain't about the label, it ain't about the beats, ain't about what radio, and it's about yo, you like are you gonna? Are you built for this? Like? And man, I just started like as you just and say going

in the ship. I was freestyle and rhyming. I was reading different books, started listening to John Coltrane and different things that I wasn't up on that would give me

like open my mind space up. I remember writing this song I used to love her and you know that song eventually went on and became something where they made a movie about it and people did different things about it because I was talking about hip hop as a woman, and that's where I felt like I first hit myself, like you all right, this album, man, I'm an artist, like like I know and I don't know everything yet, but I know where I want to go with it.

And I was starting to get my own voice and that's when it came and in to tell the truth, like you know, as an artist, you kind of as a man to a human being, you kind of start you find things about yourself, and then you you fall off and go this way, you know, like it's like it's a journey, like because when you asked that question, I was like, well, I found myself then, but then I was seeking other things and and and things ain't

a line. I released another album and it might not connect, but then I go release another one and it did. So it's like you find your footing. And I think the most important thing I found was to be truthful with who, who and where I am at the time. Like and then you know, sometimes people are gonna be rocking with it and sometimes they're not. But it's like

that's up being an artist is about. It ain't always gonna be like it ain't always hit at the time where the whole world is celebrating it, and then sometimes it make so but you know, I just decided to keep putting my intention and then putting with the love and putting my truth in it, and you know, God willing everything works out the way it done. I mean,

look at your longevil. They in twenty five plus years in the game, what's changed since the first time you were you know, started using your pen to your you know you're about to drop an album tomorrow. What is changing in that time from your point of view? In your music? Man, in my music, I think I definitely become more confident, like you know, after after doing it more times, and even like doing other things like acting is actually helped me. Like being more open as a

human being has helped me. And then you know, the experiences I've had made me be like, man, it's I like, I ain't afraid to fall and I ain't gonna I envisioned myself always excelling and fly it, so I don't, you know. And and the way that shows up in my music is that I don't like it used to take me a year a year to do an album, bro, like I go because I was looking for stuff to write about. But now it's like, if I catch that inspiration,

I ain't thinking twice. And and as this album is coming out, this is an album I started like in the August, and now it's coming out, and and it's like I didn't second guess myself. I said, this is what I'm supposed to feel, that this is what I'm feeling at the moment, and I'm and I'm allowed that to be. I ain't gonna think twice. I know what's dope, So I'm gonna stay on what's dope and and go do that. So I think that's health. And then you know,

I've been exposed to a lot more things. And you know on the South Side, dude, just growing up what I knew on the South Side. But then eventually, you know, you get to travel the world, you get too exposed to do different people, You watch different films, foods, all of it, all the information. I always one of my good friends as a musician was like, man, every time you you digested new things, new information, you you're feeding your like musical like palette. You know, absolutely moving to

New York? What did that do to your creativity? Man? That was that catapulted my creativity because Chicago gave me a strong foundation. Man, no other places I want to be from them from Chicago. And as I built on that foundation, where New York was like all these different artists from different places that were there coming as a melting pots. So I was around artists that were fashion designers, that were musicians, that were like chefs as artists, and

we all were like feeding each other. I was in the molting part, and I would be able to go to work like it was jams that's going on at one in the morning, so I could go work on the craft. There, I could go see some Gordon Parks exhibit which I ended up using for my album cover for like Water for Chocolate, because my homie or Here

the sister to make Fashion, told me about it. So I was around a lot of just dope art and New York is one of those places where it's like helps you to be free, like you you can you can walk down the street where whatever the hell you want and they ain't gonna look twice at you. So I think I was. I was in one of those stages where I was discovering another thing, another thing about you know, me and what I wanted to express, so I was able to do it in a free space

and not have to. There were all my homies like rosh, what you're doing, man, that's that's terrible, Like what are you doing? What you wear? So you know that's probably like growing as a as a as a person's confidence, Yeah, and yourself no matter what other people, that confidence in yourself as a motherfucker for us, you know, knowing that the coach has confidence in us. You know what you're you're doing something that all the confidence has to come

from you. You gotta believe in yourself first. When y'all hit that spot where you know, like, okay, I can actually go to the league McDonald game. Uh, Kobe Bryant timtoime was Jermaine O'Neil. I let the game is scoring. Yeah, that's when I did. That's when I knew I should have got the MVP, should have got the Kobe said I got it. He thought I got it, So I want on my mind. That's all that matters for me. It was just, you know, in college, you know, I was kind of a labeling arts more of a football

player than basketball players. In college is kind of where I found my ground. And even when similar to Jack, even when we first got drafted and we didn't make it because he went somewhere, I had to go play in the G League. Like our ship was a grind, grind, grind, you know what I mean. And I think it made

me appreciate it more. And that's why I played the way I played because you know, almost for the first handful of years of my career, every game was an audition only for my team, but other teams around the league. So it was either gonna be me or you. That's how I looked at it, and that's how you know I got my reputation. But you know, that's what I had to do to survive in this space. And then you know, I turned it into fifteen years. But the ship you gotta do to get on or just it's

gonna be someone else. Yeah, straight up two thousand three, you and your first Grammy with Eric about do for Love of my Life? What was that experience? Like? Still yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks man. Yeah, that was amazing, man, because Grammy was something I didn't know. I love her too, goddamn bro everybody. And he said we're gonna talk to you about We're gonna talk to you about some ship off camera, but he was saying some ship right for you pull up,

Like do you realize? I'm like, yeah, we're gonna talk about that if you know, you know words up man like that. That was an incredible time and night like there to win a Grammy, like the first Grammy and it was you know, like I said, Love of My Life was really based on I used to love her, but we did this song for Brown Sugar, which was also based on I used to love it. So it was kind of like incredible that that that it all

went full circle. And then with Erica, you know at the time, that was my lady, so it was like, man, we are we're doing this. That was everything ever at the time, and that record that was every thing, man, and it felt and I felt so good to be able to do that record with it because she she obviously is a dope ass like singer, but she a hip hop type, you know what I'm saying. And we had she got bars, man, she fret. She from Texas,

you know. Yeah, but you know we have Cobambada, who's the father of hip hop, he was in the video.

Or Cool Hurt. We had Cool Hurt in there, who's the father hip hop in there, and man, it was just like you know that night, man, we had the best jail session ever, Like it was Prince was there, like Jill Scott, like it was all like flow at to the girls, marshing them, Raphael Sade you know, in Quest Love and the Roots and James Poison's cat was playing playing fly on the wall there you know it was even a fly smoker to join on the wall.

Was the jail session, bro, like that June turned down incredible? So that that one, that Grammy, I was like, okay, I left that my mother's house. My mother is the first one. You experienced commercial success in two thousand and five with your album. Be the grind to get there and to finally kind of be able to be crossed over to that. But oh six is like your album, your whole album is recognized by by the committee. What was that crossover? Liking? Is that when you feel like

you that was? That was? You know, I ain't gonna fin I don't never feel like, man, oh man, it's done like I made it, Like I do sit there now. I take on moments where I'm like, man, let me appreciate this moment. Work too often we don't, Man, I do that now, Like I mean, I'm grateful to be here with y'all brothers, Bill and I would have never known watching the games, I don't be sitting here Bill

with y'all. Right, So I take in the moment, but but I don't celebrate too long, like I'll just be like, Okay, I still got I still got new things. That I want to accomplish and create. That moment I definitely was like more than anything when I was taking in was like I just come off from being like people was like, man, comment doing this crazy Like I did an album that was out there, It's called Electric Circus and it was like real different. So it was getting ridicuted and I

ain't getting no critical claiming nothing. It was just like cash was writing me off. So it was like a rebirth to do be So now only did I feel like, oh man, I'm arriving in a in a new way, but also it was like that was a moment in my life where I started having to really practice like speaking things into existence and really believe in what I'm saying, Like no matter if people talking ship or whatever, I gotta just be like believing who I am. And I

started seeing it coming to fruition at that time. So b was that moment for me to be like, hey man, you got power in your mind, you got like your word means something, so so do that and I and I became more confident in the way that you know,

I was around Yea and different casts. There was like there was more like out there with this like look I'm dope blah blah blah, and and you know, and it made me see like, yo, you gotta claim what you are, like you know, I would do it on the mike, but then it's like even the times when we was doing listening sessions, you can't just sit back and be like bashful about it. I ain't never tried to do it like yea, you did it or this too, but I still needed to be like yo, my way,

like Yo, this is this is dope. Check it out y'all. Like yeah, So I kind of got into That's what b ended up being for me something speaking to Kanye, you guys want a grammar together, someone from you know, Chicago. What was that experience like working with him and and the type of relationship you guys have. Yeah, yeah, he was uh see, I know yea since he was like nineteen years old because he was no idea produced my first albums and just wanted that's my brother from you

know he's silent, Yeah, that's the guy. He He brought Kanye around because Kanye was like their mom's teased together and you know, they knew each other. So Kanye was his young producer would come around and he was hungry. But you know, at the time his beats worth they was good, but they wasn't like better than no Idea. So I was like, yo, I got these no I D beats. But we were still with Bill. We were Bill.

He come ryme, so we was always cool. But in two thousand three, when I was starting to work on the other stuff, I was like, yo, yeah, let's get on some beats. He was like all right, cool, you know, because I just did get him high for his album and he was like cool. He started cooking up beasts and it was just a real It was I felt like I grew a lot working with you because he had he had a vision of he loved hip hop and love like he knew the hip hop that I knew.

But he also had a vision of how to make songs sound big where everybody can hear it, but it's still got that soul. And he was able to take you know, my rhymes and we were able to create songs like he and he was one of the producers who would be like, now you should rewrap that, or no, don't change that, or now we're gonna get this hooked like this, and even like this song called the Corners. As soon as I laid the vocals, he was like, Okay, the video go look like this in Chicago to smoke.

So he had even the invisage so he was working with him. Was was like that, and you know, and it was good too, Like I was on his label. I was on good music. So it was good to be supporting my brother and he was getting something out of it too. So who are some of the people

you looked up to in your space? I go start from some of the earlier For me, it was like rock Him and caress One and Big Daddy came E P M D. Then casting my age group, I mean, and then n W a Ice Cuban and then casting my age group became like the Na's, Biggie's UM and uh Black Moon and and and cats like that. And now you know, I feel like it's still like new artists, whether it's Kendrick Um, you know, just doing stuff. That's the span I would say, from Carest to Kendrick. It's

it's kind of like what it ended up being. But you know, I ain't gonna lie. I've been listening to a lot of nineties hip hop lately. Just getting inspired music was different back then, I don't think we knew, like we didn't have like as much things going on. So it was like we put off my soul into the into the hip hop, into these rhymes, into the beasts and the way the drums sound and the way the scratches were. And it's something prolific about artists nowadays.

They put out a lot of music, but and some of it is great and then something sometimes it don't stick with you, Like and what I was listening to with some of these some of the nineties hip hop, was like, man, this music, Like I'm bringing up nineties hip hop because when the pandemic hit, I kind of went straight to what what I needed to hear. Like, I wasn't trying to be like, let me try to people,

you know, please somebody else. I'm playing in my house, I'm playing this nineties hip hop along with I listened

to jazz music. I listen to gospel music. But that being said, nineties hip hop was feeding me for what I was doing working out in these things, and that made me see the essence of what what what I loved about it was, man, cast was doing different things and experimenting with things and being flavorful and everybody kind of was having their own sound overalls like whether whether it was you know yetto boys like they were who they were, um, you know outcasts who they who they were,

soul is of mischief like these do a die man, man, come on, do a die? Twisted like yo, early two thousand's you got the acting bug? How did that come about? Yeah? My A and I who was working at the label I was on was I was on m c A. She said, Man, I got an acting coach that I think you should work with because she knew I wanted to get into acting. I always love fils. He wanted to get in an acting too. You got man, we got me in, Zack. I'm gonna pull you in and

put you through. You know you're gonna be We're gonna be working work on the craft thing. That's what Jack wants. Work on the craft. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what I ended up doing. I worked on the craft. I'm like, I ain't trying to be a rapper actor. I want to be I'm an actor. I told you something. Some people like, do you know, look at you as an actor, you know, not like a rapper, like an actor. And that's that's credit to you, dude. I ain't gonna lot.

Sometimes I'll be like Dawn and made it made me feel good because it's you know, you're not not no disrespect to the music, but at the same time, like you've you've not mastered, but you're you're a legitimate actor as well. Yeah, and I mean yeah, I've definitely had like I've did this thing and and I one of the comments was like I ain't know the actor comment raps, and I was like, don't want to be down because

I'm multi talented. Exactly, yeah, exactly. But that that being said, man, I really took the craft serious and just started studying. And when I was going to classes, and I was going to classes any time in between twur I just going to classes and working on it. And I started going on audition and I wasn't doing good, but it's still working at it, and just working at the craft. Kept going to class. This one script or sides, you know, sides are like what you get when you're about to audition.

They only give you a piece of a scene. Besides, I really loved and I got to read the script for the movie Smoking Aces, and uh, I was like, I love this, I gotta go get better, get better. So I went in and man, and that was the first call back I got. And then I was geek and I remember continue to work on it, work on it, like work on the scenes. While I was on tour. I flew back and got got got in in that room for my second audition and I felt great with

the audition. And man, I remember I remember getting a call like three weeks later. I was sitting there. I was at a music conference with Kanye. We were about to I was supposed to go on tour with Ya. And I was like, we was about to the tour was booked and everything, and I got the call from the director Joe Kanahan that I got my role, got the role. And it was like it was like God a sweet in a way because I was about that to go tell ya, yo, yeah, I can't do this

to him. Understood. My brother is still bazy understood. And it was just you know, that was from that point on. Man, it was just like even even roles where I didn't have a lot to do, it was like and and it's one of the things exactly like at the end of the day, some of it is just looking and getting roles, so you can get the experience to just being on the set, just like getting shots up in the gym. Getting simple as that, because then eventually I

really saw my acting improve and grow. When I got to I did a TV show that was called Hell on Wheels. It was like a Western man. I was working so consistently. I was getting shots up, and at that point I started getting in front of the camera and I could start trying things instead of just being like, Okay, I got these lines down and and I was doing

all the other work. But sometimes you can forget to be as creative as you could be in front of the camera, you know what I mean, because you like thinking about somebody, You think about other stuff and like you and you're thinking about how to do it right when right it's just being in the moment, being president, letting it flow to and if you prepare, it's like what y'all would probably feel in the game is like, if you've been putting up shots, you know what you're

getting the game. It's gonna be natural with the trust, the process and you put in the work. Was it awkward to see yourself on on TV acting the first couple of times you've seen it, or or on a big screen, like what was that experiences that's yeah, that's it was like the first time. Man, I was so geek because all my homies came, my mother was there. I even took my daughter. She was too young and probably see smoking aces. But I like it just was a joy. I ain't gonna lie. I was watching every

little moment. But I'm to be honest, I felt good about what I did in that movie. So after I got over my myself just like being critical, I was like, man, this is good man in the movie. And then eventually, like some of the fight scenes, like I get to doing John Wick. Sometimes I'm like, damn, we did all that like we did because it's like it's a lot of work. Boy, So I love I know you love that.

I love getting through that one man. We like preparation, we go hard man and it's like, man, Keanu reeves just he he the top level when it comes to that, he's someone this I feel like he's been great. Yeah, I think he gets overlooked. He's been a great actor for a long He's been great and done great movies,

and he'd been committed to it. Not man for me, It reminded me of just like what athletes would do, because he wanted to work as hard as I like working hard to get to where I get to and and because then it gives me like I know that, I'm like I'm ready. So and the crazy part with John Wick though, is the director Chad. I love him and incredible he did all the John Wicks him and

his partner today. But you'll work on the whole scene and blah blah, like you working for weeks months, really work in the choreography for to a fight scene, and man, he had changed it right there. You know, when it's time to shoot, you'll be like, no, let's shot. And that is a lot to to you know, try to adjust. But because we did all that preparation they study, you kind of feel confident. Okay, I'm gonna make it happy

to just trusted. Yeah, yeah, I love working on that and action action in drama movies or some of my favorite things to do. You gotta be the movie had to be good to make three of the same movie three times e times. But the beginning of the third one man about two million people died. It was that ship was fired. You work, you got a chance to one of my all time favorite movies with a deep fund cast. You got a chance to work on the

American Gangster with this What was that? Like? Man? That was incredible that that was one of the ones where I was like, man, I tried out for one one role and they said, um, nah, we think you you're too young for that role, so try for this other one. And I tried out. Then it was like nah, And I ended up making another tape and just took it to the casting director and she was like, man, your passion for this is we just got. So they cast me as one of the brothers um which is funny

because some people don't know. But in that movie, I was playing tas father. It was I got a crazy because you know, you know, about eight years older. But hey, we was acting, so we made it work. But I just was geeked to be in the movie because it was Denzel Washington and Ruby d the Great Ruby Dan God bless Us Souls, and then Russell Crowe and really Scott directing and the story was just so dope. When I read that story and all the dope actors from chest elb to Hotel as You for all, Like I

was like Man, this is an incredible cast. So they had a rism. The risd was dope in that too, man. So yeah, man, that's one of my favorite movies I ever got to do it, and that was one of the ones. Man. Literally I only had like a few lines, but still I was like, I'm a classic. Yeah, that's a classic. Sure, you launched your own entertainment company, being Coming after doing under a couple of other labels. What was that experience like being able to finally launch your

own label? You know, early on, my friends like, man, you need to start a label and start a label, and I wanted to be able to provide the channel for people to to get out there. But I didn't feel like I had the team and one thing I always I want to do because man, when you're starting to label, you're dealing with people's dreams. Man, Like when somebody come up and say, man, I got this music,

that's their dream and I know that feeling. So I was like, once we were I had the right team around, we ended up starting Thing Coming, and you know, now it's spread out to like I got something called start Us Films, which you know, which is film and TV production company, and start Us kids, which is like really a collective where we put musicians, but it's also fashion

designers and photographers just giving them platforms. Yeah, and so so it's it's really been good because I feel like, oh, man, now I got the team in place in the infrastructure to really be able to go out and and give people opportunities and not play with their dream, give them a real opportunity. Uh, Selma two thousand and fourteen, you got a chance to co star, Uh, played James Bevil.

What was it like, Uh, you know, to play that movie and and that kind of impact considering where we are in two thousand twenty now Selma was for me that was like a life changing moment um for me because it was the first time I got on the movie set and the movie was directed by Ava douven A um a black woman, and everybody on the set, from the director of photography Bradford Young who's super dope, to like costume designer Ruth Ruth Carter who ended up

winning up. Yeah, co like the makeup it was black, black men, black women, like the lighting guy. So it was like, Yo, this could this can happen? Man? Like, this is dope? And then you know, Oprah came in and was she was a producer on it, and it was just cool with everybody. We have like good times that like just even at her place that she had down there, and I was like, man, this is a

I never felt this on a movie. Like getting to work and see all these you know, different black people working and I really started to learn what we could do with the films. And then when another thing that it hit me was we got to sit down and talk with Ambassador Andrew Young, who was one of Dr Kings. You know, he's one of the men in a civil rights movement doing a lot of work. And he sat down and when he was like, man, what are you willing to die for? Live for that? He was like, man,

we was willing to die for freedom and justice. So we lived for every day. And man, that really struck me because I was like, man, what am I What am I really willing to die for? What am I living for? It put the spark in me to be like, I gotta do more. When we talked about activism, that's

when I was like, I gotta do more. I gotta I gotta figure out ways and learning that these people were strategizing and coming up using their creativity to come up with ways so that we can't vote, so that we can't sit in the area we need to sit in, so that our schools, you know, working to get our schools better. So all that work that they did, I just felt I started learning more and feeling like that was as you said, the torch, it is our turn coming from Chicago. When you hear the word icon in

your name next to it, how does that make you feel? Man, That's a great feeling. Man, It's like incredible. I'mna embrace it. You know before times you'd be like, uh, you know, trying to I'm embrace and say, man, I'm so grateful to be from Chicago and to be called that. And I hope that like other shorties in Chicago and wherever you from, inspired by that and know that Yeah, at first I didn't see myself as being that, but you at some point will and you and as you see it,

you will be it. But you know, from the beginning, it was just a dream and just something that that I saw myself doing something in the world and not And with that being said, I just hope that that any youngs could feel like Man, I don't know what I want to do yet, but I'm gonna do something.

And you know, if I can go beside your name, then embrace that and use it for you know, for the good all before we leave selling for you and John Legend created Glory, the original original song that you know, I highly acclaimed, clearly acclaimed once some awards for it. How did that come about? After doing the movie something I was and like I said, it affected me in

different ways. So I was really inspired and they were looking for a song for the They were looking for music for the for the movie, but they hadn't come to me or whatever. So one day, man, you know that's why I say, man, listen to God, listen to yourself. Man, when you get that gut feeling, go ready to go with it. Because I had a gut feeling. I was just like I was talking to about to My manager

was my manager at the time. He one of my best friends, Derry d and we was and we had been saying, man, you should do this and do that. I said, Man, let me just call John. I'm about to call John Legend. I hung up the phone with him and call John and just explain to him everything. Like look, I was part of this movie, Selma. They ain't expecting a song from us, but let's create something. This is what this one, this is what it is. He was like, Man, I'm in London, I'm on tour.

I won't be back in the States for another month two months, but I work on something. I'm off on Wednesday. I remember I'm off on Wednesday. I said. Cool. I hung up the phone, and soon as I hung up, I texted him some titles because I just had some title. I was getting sparked it and I tell when Glory was the third title text him. So he took that title. He said he heard he saw that tight on. He just went to the piano and started recording like that, that hook and in the in the in the chords.

And when he sent that to me, I was like, oh, got wet. My daughter said, uh. My daughter said, I walked out of that booth because she was at the studio. I told her, I said, yo, I'm gonna get an Oscar for this. She said, I said, yo, We're gonna get an Oscar for this, and she said she was looking at me like this, yeah, he he go get an Oscar. And then she she said she was watching on TV that night on the night of the Oscars, and was like, damn, he said he was gonna get

a Oscar energy out there. Yeah, congratulations man of many hats. Activism is something you're very passionate about. Where do we go from here? Uh? With our society? How do we get more representation and looks like us? What are some some things you want to give to your audience, our

audience and people who are leaning on us for information. Man, First of all, one of the things I do want to say activism is it's key, Like it's key, and a lot of activism does start with first self activism too, meaning as much work as you do for others, you still want to do work on yourself too. It's like you work, you work on simultaneously. So like getting knowledge itself, taking care ofself is gonna be important, so you could be the best activists you can be. That being said,

you know it's identifying things. Both of you have have been activists, like you got thrown into it even more because of what happened this year. Um, when the situation is called upon, you gotta just embrace it, embrace it and just go do it and uh, and and know that you you're not gonna have all the answers. I ain't got all the answers. We ain't got all the answers.

But we we seek us and we find what we what we find, and we liver and like the things that we learned, and we take those lessons and move forward with him. I think it's important to identify the things that you want to see change, from the smallest thing in your neighborhood. One lady when I was doing a visual in Baltimore, was like, man, I just want the streets to be clean, like to pick up trash

as a simple thing, but it's a pride thing. She wanted that you can make sure somebody in your neighborhood, a political person or organization, is doing that, or if you want to see the educational system be changed, figure out ways that you can partner with people to open up schools. We've been able to open up a school in Chicago called aim Art in Motion, and we less than two miles from my career where I grew up.

We got our kids, our kids meditating. Our kids are like they you know, they learned about every different aspect

of things that I never got introduced to. And that when the point is from the biggest thing, we don't have to be You don't have to be dr king, you don't have to be an athlete, you don't have to be an artist to make the change we talking about, UM, and it's just really identifying what you're passionate about and if you can't every day, make a step towards it, and you can so do it every day, just make

a step towards it. And then that being said, if we spoke earlier, team up with people who can teach you and and and you grow with them and build with them. I think those are some of the things that are key to us moving forward. So you're on a five state tour right now. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, So we've been going to different

swing states. That's dealing with the election and also just states that really affect the election right now, UM, and just building with the people, encouraging people to vote, supporting the people who have been working at the polls for a long time. We're actually performing for them, performing music, just music, just giving them love. And we're also meeting with some of the candidates. So if for me, if I'm gonna put, if I'm gonna say, hey, support Jamie Harrison.

Like you said, I gotta look. I say, look, these are something the things I'm looking for, Like from the people in the community. They're telling me this is what they need. You're gonna deliver that from me. Uh, you know where we're at, and then you know, just be able to look so in their eyes. So we we've been and I've been going in with different candidates like Jamie Harrison and going around and meeting with the people and going into their their communities and just saying, hey, y'all,

let's vote as people here to care about you. So it's been a powerful experience, um to go to these different places and just connect with the people, especially during the time where everything has been you know, we ain't been able to be on the grounds with people, but I think it's necessary sometimes. You know, as much as we can have influence on social media and different things, it is great to be able to be face to face.

Well that's what Jack something Jack spoke on, you know, through all his endeavors he's still doing, just came from somewhere, but looking at these people face to face and being in the trenches with them, and how important and what the difference is made and on the way Jack looks at things. Yeah, Jack, that's the whole other thing. You just find out how many people really need, how bad the situation is, you know what I mean, and how many people need people like us to speak up for him.

I never would have known, you know, how many people and how many people that need our voice, you know. But actually being out there touching these people, talking to them and hear their stories and seeing their face when they see us there, knowing that we care about them, knowing somebody care, it's a totally different feeling. Bro changes. Well people always like people want to say, like, well, you don't you you don't live in the hood no more, you don't have no you have money. Why does this

bother you on? What people don't understand is we were the lucky ones that made it out, you know what I mean. It could have been one incident, one thing in school, one incident that we could have been these statistics. We could have been these same people that never looked made it out, you know. So like you guys are both saying, it's our almost our duty to be the voices for the people that weren't fortunate enough to make it out, but still show them that there's you know,

there's some brighter days coming. Uh. And I was taught as a youngster never jump ship and end up in the same boat. Yeah, that's that's the wisdom. Yeah, the the show. That s all right, We almost to the end. Quick hitters, your rout Mount Rushmore Artists. Yeah, I want to hear this. Is it a hip hop artists? Is this artists? Is your mountain? All right? My mouth, I'm gonna putting Stevie Wonder in there. I'm putting lies in there. I put John Coltrane and um, I put Aretha Franklin

in there. Um, how many people I can put on Mount Russia? Give you two more and that's four. Yeah, I'm I'm gonna put earthmen and fire and then over put Lauren Hill. That's my mouth, Russia More. I want to hear your mouth. I want to speak on that, Stephen, because I said a line on my album I say, people don't understand how talent to Stevie isn't how deep he had to be. He blind, but he's seen the ribbon in the sky. Just think how deep that is, How deep he had to be. It was on your

Mount Rushmore hip hop period, just artist period. I'm going with Michael Jackson, miss Michael's man. Hold on, I'm gonna get three or four. Yeah, I'm good for I'm Michael Jackson, probably uh Al Green, Whitney Houston, and it's gonna be corny, but he one of my favorites. Michael McDonald, like Michael McDonald favorite on my own class. That's the classic. I got Michael Jackson, I got tupac Rafael Sad, I'm a huge We can't miss Rael Sack and probably jay Z. Yeah, yeah,

you can't miss like we all came. Yeah, you know, yeah, we all put some names out there, but just it's always been so dupe because we've been athletes. But it's just like you know, he's bade the crossover. Like the world doesn't move without music. I mean, you couldn't always put a p you can. You can remember a time in your life when you hear a song like Ship. I remember what I was doing when I was twelve and ninety two when I heard this Ship. You know

what I mean? That's music is so inspirational and I admire people who have been able to have longevity and do it because, like I said, it's it's the soundtrack to our life ship through everything you go through. Music is what gets you through, helps you through anything. You know. That's why I'm a big fan of TUPAP because Tupac could have you ready to fun somebody up, but you had me ready to suck somebody up. And then you also talked about you know, dear Mama, and he's got

a baby and the Black Panther. You know, he has it. He has a song for every emotion. And that's why I love music so much, and music I really like begetting appreciate it even I mean, I appreciate it throughout my whole life because like you said, it's just it's moments in my life where music has been it. That's it.

But but it's the sound track. But then, you know, during this time, it was like, man, I was you know, whether it was just hopping on like hearing DJ spending, whether it's d nice or quest love and they just seeing people like how we was coming together through music, or just people yearning to hear music, and even me playing music at home. I was like, man, music is, Man,

It's it's essential. It's fine. Brother a month, Yeah, so I feel you know, It's a crazy feeling when you when you're around you people and somebody play that song all here, everybody. Yeah, that's the wonderful feeling. We got to do and make that noise. Yeah, we going down. So we're here. You got a basketball training, you still work on your game. You're starting five. Four other people with you pastor present, my starting five, but you in it. Yeah but wait, let me be clear about every care

about basketball. I had a trainer. I used the trainer when I was working for the trying to get I was. I was playing for the Celebrity Game. I was trying to because we was in Chicago, and I was like, I got shot. Yeah I got by the way. Yeah yeah, yeah, gotta give no disclaiming. I was. I was coming home. I had I had to win. Hey, but uh man, I'm going Mike Lebron Magic and I need a big man and a shack man. I'm gonna go with shack because a sack of dominant man like sack the most

dominating player. I gotta hear from y'all. I know we gotta go, but I gotta starting five. I don't want to put myself. He did that. He didn't play though, but still you gotta put yourself in be the sixth man. Then, so I got Mike Lebron, Magic and Shock. All right, I'm gonna small line up. I don't give you my shoe, and I just gave you a bunch of dogs. Okay, Braun at the one, Kobe at the two, Me at the three, I'm gonna be big, Shock and Tim Duncan. You're not gonna be able to stay with our line

up though, Yeah, I just like going on. I'm really over the spotting up. I'm in the corner. Yeah, I'm load already, n loaded. Who was the players that made job like most that you can remember, made you most mad? Like yo, I hate playing against this mother? Well, it wasn't a hate. It was I knew that this was gonna be the night where I could possibly get forty put on me. It was gonna be a night we had to work the hardest, and on Koe by far,

you're gonna work the hardest that night. But before any two guards, every night I played with and we met him guarded everybody, Dirk the Whiskey to small guards, Chris Paul, all of them. Nobody makes you work harder than cold, was it? Just relentless every place. He's gonna get the ball every place. Got that. I don't give a gene so cold told me one time, it's like I missed thirty straight shot and take the thirty first shot like

the other first thirty didn't matter. That's a cold and making them know it's like, yeah, now he was relentless. Brow he was a monster. Yeah, I mean because you know, like jack said, our job every night outside the spot up for shooting and was guarding the best player on every team. So that's the way. One night Carmelo one night, Katie one night, Janoby one night, CP three one night, Clay Thompson one night, Yeah, Kobe one night. Then some

nights we gotta go out. Christo boozes all that big strong to sixty to seventy that the rest ever talk back to you. Oh yes, sir, especially me Jackie cussing them all out like that. We believe team. I used to have to like I used to be the peacemaker. And if you know anything about me me being a peacemaker,

waite out doesn't work. Yeah, he was actually my my my shrink like because I'm just say and that's how astod like I was like, we both can't be off the off the rocket there, So I got to be some sort of sense because if we both off the rocket with this whole motherfuckering arena might get burnt down. We had the game, we both got kicked out. Probably, yeah, we got on the bus. Yeah, is what it is? Five five dinner guests dead or alive. I've dinner guests.

This is always one of the best questions. You know, I love this, This is amazing. Um Malcolm X yeah, solid, Yeah. I probably would go with um Marvin Gaye to Michael Jackson. Man. I always wanted Michael Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't how to pick Mike's man. I'm gonna say Frederick Douglas, And I'm saying Freddie Douglas because he lived in a time where I would be like, what the hell, how is this going down? So is that four or five? Four

or four four? I'm gonna say Nina Simone because I love Nina Simon, So yeah, that would be that would be mine. A good book you'd recommend, considering that that the current climate of America. You know what I think the book I would suggested a book called The Prophet Is by Khalil Gobron is short, but it's written well man, and it's um and man. I always go to it because it's like it just reminds you about philosophies in life and not getting too caught up in and stuff.

And I feel like you could be from any walk of life and read the Prophet. And so I'm gonna say the prophet kalele Kalibro, I'll read, I'll read a lot of Ye. What's the book y'all got from me? I'm halfway through Message to the Black Man, man, I was. I'm halfway through that one man, The New Dym Crow. Man, I've been sitting on it for a minute. I get hot and cold with it. But I picked it back

up this recently. So yeah, that was one of the things that I got to sit down with Michael Alexander, And that's what, honestly was the thing that I read, The New Gym Crow. But then sitting down with her, she was like showing me how the prison system because I was like, man, I'm to do this work in Chicago all the violence, trying to stop the violency. Was like, you know, the prison system is tied into that, because you know, the more we put people incarcerated and then

they come back and they ain't got no you know. Yeah, and it's money too, and but just them coming back to society, they don't they if they ain't been really rehabilitated or hell is the word I'd like to use, then they're bound to come back with yeam deep programs, simple as that. So yeah, I love the new gym crow to mess to the black man I used to. I was reading that yo man, that was that book,

got a lot of a lot of knowledge. And I was reading How to Eat to Live too, because that's that book was helping me get you know, learned like well I eat. Yeah, exactly the last question and we kind of touched on it earlier. I guess you would like to see on our show. Yeah, well, we said, Queen Latifa. So I like to see naas ony man and tell him when we say that finishing the you could tell him tell him then when you say that you gotta help us get it. Get him on the guy.

And we spoke before actually a while back, probably like six seven years ago. I bust the rhyme for him on on this radio station that we both was on it. Yeah, he was impressed, but I never met him in person, but we want to have no nas on the show from sure, so you can help us. Jungle make your hand Jung gonna hit you up. We need God now a yeah yeah the God yeah boy killed it. Well that's a wrap, man, Thank you coming for your time,

good luck with everything. And we really want to we really want to link with you with the you know, the prison system stuff you're doing man, so we can get along. We're gonna exchange it from from one of these prisons or something and let these guys tell the story. And I got another acting coach. Yeah, let's go on here. I mean between him and Jamie Fox. Bro, you can't lose. I know they both come back. That's a rap. All the smoke. Thank you to coming again, my brother Jack.

Great show. You can find this on Showtime Basketball YouTube sponsors. Yeah, you find a Showtime Basketball YouTube and I Heart Family with Black Effects. We'll see how next time. This is all a smoke. A production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime