CJ McCollum | Ep 76 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

better out that way? And the sunny came out? Baby? It's nice out of here. Absolutely, It's always nice out here. Jack. I wanted to commend you on how you're able to keep your your ensemble together. But still you have nice little fashion fly either the Jay's or the hats of the jewelry you make. You make it look good, bro, you make it look good. Hey man, Hey, one thing about it, matt Uh. Even though I'm a Muslim, that don't mean I can't be flies. I'm gonna be flying.

It's always regardless, regardless. Well anyway, man, we got a good a special guest today. Um to me one of the most underrated players in the game. Uh, since he stepped in in the NBA. UM. You know, it's been a pleasure to watch him. Got a chance to play with them against him a little bit at the end of my career. But welcome to the show, c J McCollum, c J, thanks for joining us. Bro. I appreciate you having me on. I've been watching for some years now,

so I'm appreciated. Guys. Man, we we all fan we fans on YouTube, bro, so it's only right we get this time. Hell yeah, you're gonna get to it. Um was pretty much a disaster for all of us, starting with you know, obviously Cobe going down at the end of January. What was one thing you took from positive negative? What did you take from I think the importance of enjoying your time with loved ones. I think, you know, COVID wasn't ideal. It hasn't been a great situation for us,

but it's taught us the importance of families. It's tall us the importance of connecting with your loved ones because time is short, man, you never know what's going to happen, and I'll try to take advantage of Like I just had to leave it go COVID test in the middle of your show. You know what I'm saying, Like, that's the world we're living in now. But I still can tap in with my grandma. I still can tap in with people to just kind of check on them and

see how they're doing, because you never know. So, Uh, you go down with the foot injury the middle of January. What has the recovery been? Like, Um, how are you where you at with the recovery and and do you have a somewhat of a timetable on when you expect to return? Yeah, it's been. It was tough, man. I was playing the best basketball in my career. We were playing well, and I was in position to do some things I probably haven't done yeah in my career. But

it's just unfortunate situation that occurred. I've been heard before, so understanding the process of rehappened. It's more so mentally. Physically we're good at everything, like we can overcome most things. It's just about mentally staying engage, taking care of my body,

not rushing it with this being my third injury. So it's it's been the first four weeks was rough man in the boot washing and your team play Um, that's it's always hard to to kind of go through that, but once you get that boot off, you kind of hit the ground running and are able to do more stuff. So I'm in the transition phase. In five weeks. In a few days in that it will be six weeks. On Saturday, they basically gave me a reevaluated four weeks,

revocuate that six weeks, and then kind of go from there. Um, I feel stronger. I'll probably start doing more on court stuff these next few days in terms of like working out and progressing. But I'm gonna take my time. Man, I don't want to mess with with this with just being my third injury. We're playing well. Young guys are getting a chance to show what they have to offer, which is great, and I've been in their shoes before,

so I'm glad they're taking advantage of it. And I'll probably, you know, see how I'll see how I feel at the six week market and take it from there, but it could be a few more weeks. That's impressive that you're being smart like that because us as players, you know, we want to get back to get back on the court, and I know it's real challenging for you to be sitting on the sideline knowing you almost there, seeing your team go to walk, you know, and you've not been

able to do that. We've all been through it. But I know it takes a lot to be smart with yourself, you know it saying hold yourself back because I know you want to get out there as soon as you can. Yeah. Man, whenever I started shooting and working down, it's like, all right, I think I'm good, but it's like, no, you gotta follow the protocol all the timeline and understand that you'll be better in the long run once you make sure everything is healed properly. Yeah, And I'm sure it's tough too.

Like you said, you're you're on pace for to accomplish things you haven't accomplished yet in your career and you go down. But I think, like like I said, the piggyback off of Jack, what's feet are dangerous? You mean feet? And you know that ankle and below is something dangerous. You know. You see Graham Hill and some guys having the you know, similar injuries that you had that that that rushed back and you know what could possibly in

their career. So it's good you take your time, and we are sometimes our own worst enemy from a standpoint that we are. The competitive nature of us want to get back out there and play, but we know for the betterment of our body, it's it's a marathon, not a sprint. So I'm glad you're taking your time with that. Yeah, And I think you learned from trial and error. Man, it's my my third foot fracture, So I didn't. I didn't did everything you can do in terms of the

rehab process, in terms of when the transition is coming back. So, uh, there's the only difference now is that I got a lot more money in the bank. What a cushion? What a cushion now with the same same foot, different same same foot. Yeah, so it's correct. Like my my senior year in college, I'll go back to school for my senior year and I end up breaking my fifth metator, so non contact injury, so they think I had a

stress structure. They didn't know. I get the surgery season, senior seasons over, I get drafted by the Blazers last day at training camp, right before the inter squad scrimage in front of fans. I meant it were in a non contact practice like doing hedge hedges on ball screens and Buddy hedges out and I step on his foot and I break my foot into non contact practice the same foot. This time, I didn't I didn't have to

get surgery. I found a doctor basically said there's another procedure I can do to where it's less it's less invasive. They take some some blood from your hips been around, ejected in your foot, and then I got some shockwave therapy and I was in a boot for two weeks instead of the three months. And then I progressed back in three months. And then this time, same foot, different bone.

It's like a more rare fracture middle of the foot because of the trauma of Capella landing on me, like two fifty pounds with it whatever he weighs, he just kind of trapp trap my foot and it just there's a small fracture in the middle. And then I sprang some ligaments. But the bone is actually hell, it's just more so like waiting on the ligaments. I've been there,

bro I was. I got drafted, and uh. When I first took my physical they told me I had stretched fractures and both of my feet and in my fifth meta toss and they both was gonna break and they both end up breaking, one doing trials and one planning overseas. But my my feet hell completely. But it just sucks because it seems like you never know when the time it's gonna be when it happened. Man, that's what killed me. Yeah,

timing is always the worst. Like you play, you play your best basketball are you're trying to get to the league or you're trying to make the team where you trying to solidify yourself, and then that's when you know

you get that best setback. But I think from a character ability standpoint, it helps you appreciate things like I really appreciate the little stuff like walking to the bathroom, standing up in the shower, you know what I'm saying, Like, when that's taking away from you, you really start to stop taking things for granted. Now in in between, because I didn't know that was the third injury to the same foot. Are you in pain with that or you know,

once it heals, it's it gets kind of feeling better. Yeah. I mean I I wasn't even in pain when I when I broke it unless I walked. So that's why it's crazy because it happened in the in the first quarter, and I end up playing ten more minutes. So like I played eight and ten more minutes, and I was like, Yo, this kind of hurts, you know what I'm saying. At halftime like we'll look at it like that. That's how it cats. Like I have a time, like we'll take

a look at it. And then a halftime I told D I said, I was like, bro, this ship hurt. I said, after this game, I might be I might be down for a little bit. But I was just thinking, like two weeks, you know what I'm saying. The week I go through the I go X ray a halftime, X ray comes back, no fracture, and get m R I and Maria comes back. You're good, It's just a spring. So I'm thinking I'm gonna be out for like a

spring foot like two weeks, ten days. The next day, doctor calls on the other doctors like, yo, I think I think there's a fracture in his foot. He got to come back and skin again. So that's when I had to go back and skin. After I told my mama, my grandma, my dad, like it's just a sprain. I'm good. I had to go go back to the next day for them to tell me, like you got you gotta fracture in your foot. And I'm like a fracture, like how long? And they like could be four weeks, could

be six weeks, could be eight weeks. I'm like, Oh, that's a that's a big that's a big window, bro, Like, can you give me some more like but you know it is what it is? No pain now. Like I've been progressing on the court ball handling, I've been lifting trap our squad line, just loading the foot to try to get it stronger, make sure that the balance and strength is there on both sides, that there's no compensation.

So we've just been measuring, um, the force I can I can put out on each foot and how I'm walking, how how m loading it without moving around. It's important man, Damn well, we wish you the best with that. Man, get back healthy and definitely take your time. I kind of feel like you guys have been a team that has always been hit by injury bug and it's always the next man up mentality UM with you and Nert

down this year. How important as the contributions of Mellow and Trent and canteror been to your guys team to kind of keep you guys afloat until you know the cavalry comes back. Yeah, that's why we brought melow in Um last season. We know what to expect from him. His greatness speaks for her self. His ability to score. I think his leadership is is under valued aspect of

his game. Him having so much experience, having a presence in the locker room, being able to do stuff pre COVID when we could go out, you know, have dinner, have those conversations about how the game has shifted. Those things are extremely important. And this is one of the best big man in the league. And I think he doesn't get enough credit for his consistency. Like you know, if he plays fifteen and twenty minutes, he given you seven to fifths rebounds every night. He doesn't complain. He's

got great footwork into policy scores. He's like the ultimate teammate and g trained. I'm really happy for him because of his story. Pops played in the league second round pick comes out of the the duke as the way his turn you know, ensued every day. Even though he's playing well in practice, is not getting the chance to play in games, and then he gets a chance, it takes advantage of a t A t A has a situation where he doesn't make it to the bubble riding hood

Terraces Achilles. And he plays well last year, which you know, gives him momentum going into this season. And I go down and he continues to elevate his level of play, which is great timing for him with him being a contract year, and then also great timing for our team. And I always tell him, I was like, look, man, I know what it's like for somebody to play your position and hate on you like I ain't. I ain't one. You know what I'm saying. I want you to make

as much money as possible. I want you to be as great as possible, because it's gonna reflect on like my like what I did, Like did I hold you back or did I empower you? And I always tell him, it's enough out here for everybody. It's enough for everybody to the pacts. He talked about Mellow and what he brings to the team and how good a teammate is. What kind of give me some advice that he's giving

you doing the time, doing your time playing together. Man, I think the basketball stuff is what it is, you know what I'm saying, the work ethic to getting their early standing late importance of taking care of your body. You know, I gotta chef, I gotta do all of that stuff. But it's more so the the time management. He's got a lot of different things that he does

in his spare time. He's got the West in your glass, He's on the Social Change Fund, like, he's doing a lot in the community, So just kind of you know, tapping in, Like I'm big on education reform, right, he's big on prison reform. So being able to kind of better understand some of the things he's trying to accomplish in that realm, being able to speak to what he's doing, you know, and be more what it's like they're like, what's going on some of the documentaries that he's doing,

Untold stories. I think there's just so many different elements that like I'm trying to like absorb from a storytelling standpoint to it now information standpoint that we just talked about everything man to drinking, drinking wine to chilling. It's just like great conversations on you know, how to become a better version of yourself, which is I think it is It's key. Basketball is what it is, like you

can or you can't. You know what to do after you know, five years three three or five years in the league, you kind of figure out how to succeed and like how how to keep how to keep yourself there. But then it's just more so what happens next, Like what do you do when when it's time to transition and mentally are you ready for for life without basketball? It's a whole new world. But we spoke to this on the show in the past, but it's just like what is Mello? Probably Jack, do we know how old

us you gotta be? You gotta be thirty six least, but you gotta think like we don't. There's not that many I love to hear just that you know the game you've been able to soak up from because there's not really vets of his age around Hi where there's probably a handful. Like when me and Jack first came

in the league, that's what the game was. There were so many bets to kind of soak up game and and do you know, obviously you're in your eighth year, but I said, just experience is the best teacher, you know what I mean? In the league is so young now that it's rare to get those moments with the Vets. And on top of that, you know, a superstar sooner, you know, first bout Hall of Famer Vets. So I think that that kind of that kind of back and forth is missed in the game now, and you're lucky

to be able to get something like that. Yeah, like you said, it's it's priceless. He's got eighteen years of being in the league, hitting shots twenty six, twenty something thousand points. It is ridiculous what he's been able to experience and see and then just to be able to to maintain, you know, self belief. You know, when you go through I say, I said he was banned from the league for a little bit. You go from being vanished, you know what I mean, to where you know you

belong and people turn it back on you. How to respond to it to being ready when your when your time comes, we pick him up. And I mean first game, I think you had twenty you know what I'm saying, Like to be able to get out over be out for a year, come back like nothing happened. Like you're taking a special type of person to be able to withstand the downs, the ups is whatever, like put them downs are really breaking? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, good call um.

Thoughts on him and you mentioned, you know, twenty tho plus points. Thoughts on him passing answer Robinson, you know for twelfth off time and I think I was looking at some numbers. He has a chance before he's done to possibly get to the top ten. It's crazy, like

to even be saying this. You know, you grew up watching and you see the triple Devil, Like when you think of triple w you think of Russ and Oscar, but you think of Oscar first because he was the one establishing, you know, how to how to average a

triple Devil consistently, you know, just about every night. And then to see some of these legends, Dominique like he passed Dominique, Like that's crazy, Like to beat a teammate with somebody who you watch as a kid kind of growing up, and then you become his teammate and he's still breaking records and still polished and still got the same like same isms, like the moves are all the same. You know, eighteen years later, what is unique about your team?

I'm although you've only been on this team since you've been a pro. But your mental toughness, your mentality, your ability to stay together when you lose stars or or key members of this team. Like I said, I I touched on it earlier, But what is that? Is there a person? Is there a model? Is it the organization? What keeps you guys one? Um? When sometimes with the situation you guys have been presented, some teams will go on to islands. I think it's a combination of things.

You look at our leadership, um, look at who we have in place. You know, you look at that and he's solid. You know what I'm saying. He's always steady. He's the right type of captain. He's not the type of pilot who's gonna go back there and be like, Yo, the the plane going down. You know what I'm saying, Like the pilot come back there and start panicking, everybody panic. I think that his even killedness and his work at

the rubs off on the rest of us. And then you look at the top of the organization, from our gyms, to our presidents, to our owners, to our coaching staff. They believe in empowerment, they believe in our culture, they believe in continue to develop guys, and we go after certain types of players who myself like underdogs, who who got something to prove, who had to work for everything they got in life. I wasn't a five star. I didn't go to McDonald's all American nothing, you know what

I'm saying. I was taking ice, bass and trash cans. I had, you know, two pairs of shoes that who been for the season, and then they might give you something for the instable a tournament. Like that's how we got to this point. So now when you get all of these resources around you that back you. You got twenty four hour access to a gym where I used to have to sneak in the gym because we used our our oxygen for wrestling, and then we also took

exams in it, you know what I'm saying. At my university, so I used to have to move the chairs so I can shoot free throws, I can get to my midi and I can get to like certain spots at the three point line. But now I got a team of suits, Like, how can I fail with all of these resources you know, set up for me to succeed. And I think our appreciation for the game is is different because we we had to to outwork everybody to get to this point, and we still outwork people to

this day. I love it you just touched on a little bit but explained, dame. I mean, we know what kind of player he is, but as a leader, you know, you said that the pilot, that that the captain explained him, and and and what you've learned and tried to apply to yourself. I think he's unapologetically himself, which is important. Um, he don't fake the fund. If he don't like you, he don't like you. When you go compete, he go compete. And when he go home, he take care of his

family and do what needs to be done. And I think from a work ethics standpoint, it's obvious he works on his his craft because of how consistent he is.

But then because of how he's able to involve from his passing to his court vision, to his understanding of how to manipulate a defense, to his range to his movements, like everything is is precise and it's not like it's random, and it's not like he just does random ship like he works on he works on his dips, he works on his side step threes, he works on his logo threes, he works on his how to draw fouls, he works on how to how to uh manipulate a game in

the fourth quarter. And then we talk about it like all what play is to be? Like down the stretch? What are you seeing? And the other important aspect of being great is allowing people to hold you accountable. If he's fucking up, I'm gonna be like, bro, you gotta tighten up or come on, turn it up like or no excuses. And when we go down, I look at him, it's like, little bro, I might be hurt, nor it might be hurt, but you know what time it is like nobody's gonna look at you and say, oh, your

your players are hurt. You know they're gonna look at you and say, can he carry a team by himself? Whereas for other guys they might make excuses and like their rosters this or their rosters that know what makes excuses for him? And and I think that's awesome what motivates him because he puts up numbers. We win games. Like you said, We've been here eight years, I've never not played in the playoffs. But no one really talks about that. They just want to compare you say, are

you winning the championship or are you not? And it's like, no, we're not, but who but who? Who? Who actually is when the championships? People are right right, Yeah, that's crazy. We love it though. Like I said, dam Is Damon has been solid from day one, and I'm a big fan of you guys as a as a duel in the back court and looking forward to both y'all getting back out there on the court. Yeah, we we and we love how y'all play off each other. I think that's one thing that I like, how y'all play off

each other. But take take take me through this scenario right quick, fourth quarter? Both you and him both got thirty two, it's two seconds left. What's what? What's that? What's the conversation? Like in the hull of talking to me c J. So it depends sometimes, So it just depends on the moment. Like sometimes it's like coach draws the play and he's like, Dame or c JO get the ball. So that's his way saying like y'all gotta

figure that shot out. Or sometimes he'll sometimes he'll be like like if Dame, if Dame is really killing, like I'd be like we'll get the ball, but if you can't get it, I'm coming for like that, or if it's just like a free play, like a couple of times you might be down one you need to stop, and then it's a rebound like whoever, whoever did it? Go? Bro? Like I'm comfortable with you taking the game? When are

you comfortable with me taking it? Mr? I know the work, I know the work behind the scenes, so like I ain't, I ain't tripping. So we usually handle it that way, like whoever really rolled? Like we both got we both averaged then their thirties, so we're both gonna have close to thirty. So it's just a matter of match up like who's checking you? And then like time and score, like how much time is left? And let's say he shoots it and he misses it or or whatever, we're

going to overtime. Then next time he'll be looking at me like he wants it again, but I'll be looking like it's my turn. That's how we do it. But he's the type of guy like if I'm hot, he'll be like he'll like, damon, c J. Well got the huddle. He'll be like, go get it, or I'll be like, bro, he I've seen the looking buddy's eyes finished finished the game. Yeah, it seems like y'all your own biggest you know, supporters

and fans, and that's how it's gotta be. It's gotta be a healthy option for a coach to have two motherfucker's you know, close games that you really know the close games right, And we didn't run it from it like some people from it. It's like I want to miss the shot at the end because I can go handle the press conference like I can go handle like

what comes with that failure. Everybody can't handle that. So I think both we're both comfortable with the success and I can get down with failure too because I know and that's the part of building, building you up for the next opportunity. There was opportunity for Dave Vanderpool to be could possibly become the Minnesota head coach. Last week he was looked over. They hired someone from Toronto. Dame spoke out. Everyone's kind of speaking out, what are your

thoughts on that whole entire process. Obviously I look at it two sides. Obviously there's an issue, but then at the same time I look at it as how are you going to tell a billion dollar owner who they can and can't hire? Um? But I'll let you explain your side and then we'll pick back up after that. I think it's a double edged sward, because, all right, I'm not mad at the decision they made, I'm mad at how they made it. Everybody you have it could have hired a guy who's pink. I don't really care

about the race in this particular situation. It's about the process us that occurred. You have a coach who's who's there a young coach, Saunders. He gets fired, he's thirty four years old. You have associate head coach and waiting, and typically you know, when you fire someone, the associate head coach assumes the head coaching position and then eventually

you open up the role, you open up the search. Right, the fact that they fired a guy in mid season, ten to fourteen days before All Star break was an interesting decision. But once again, the ownership group, the team, the organization has a right to do whatever they want. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with how they how they disrespected the person in position to potentially take over in the interim. You don't have to hire him full time, but to not let him

coach one game to fly another coach in. Yeah, if this is the finesse, the finesse was was written on the wall because they played They played in Tampa against the Raptors and away home games, so they played away, so they probably interview Buddy behind the scenes there. Then they traveled back to Minnesota and played the Raptors again, and then the next day they fired a coach and hired Buddy from from the Raptors. And I think people got confused with our anger. My anger isn't that the

guy that got hired. Congratulations, kudos to you, Like whatever it is, what it is. I just feel like the disrespect that's that's pointed towards the black specifically is outrageous. Um would they have done that to a white man who knows right, Like, I don't know. Maybe they would have,

maybe they wouldn't. I haven't seen it. I just have a problem with the process of not allowing the guy who's who's been working his tail off, who's shown that he's capable of doing things, not get a chance to coach, to coach a couple games, like I'm gonna hire my boy too, like I'm gonna keep it a hunter, like I'll get in a position to be a gym. I'm

hiring who I want to hire. But if there's a person in waiting who has a chance to kind of show what they have to offer to the rest of the world, I'm gonna give him a chance a couple of games out of respected inspect maybe maybe you let him coach to the all start break and you just let him know, like, hey, I got a guy in a position that i'm gonna hire, but out of respect to you, I'm gonna let you coach to the break. Then this guy's coming in and take over. But they

didn't do that. They didn't communicate to their franchise. Kar Anthony Towns had no idea what was happening. I think it's just malpractice. How they handled the situation is disrespectful to to the organization. It's disrespectful to the man in waiting who's worked his tail off and it is deserving of it. And then the manipulation that that probably went on to where you got a guy who's they're very good at player development. I've been with him for a

long time. Things been on for a long time. Those is excellent, excellent, os understands how to get the best out of players, but probably wasn't trying to step on the head coach's toes and kind of play the role thinking that like, all right, I just played my role. I don't want to I don't want to get anybody's

way only to get passed up anyway. It's just a it's just a disrespectful situation in which it makes me dislike, you know, some of the processes that go behind bass the ball, because when it comes to blacks and African Americans, we don't get the benefit of the doubt ever in anything. What's frustrated to is is like with everything that's going on, like one thing, you can't never tell the owner who

to hire. But with everything that's going on, when you have so many black players, when you have a chance to put your fingerprint on equality, why not take that chance? And then then again, we as players, we've seen we've seen guys come straight from the film room to head coaching jobs. We've seen this in the NBA many of times, you know what I mean, And and and people want to make it about everything. It's not, no, it's about none of that. But it's it's about what's right, is right?

What's going on the day everybody talking about equality. You've been an owner of team knowing that you can, you can have a footprint in equality, and why not go that way? And not only that he is qualified, he is qualified. Yeah, you're not doing him charity. It's not a charity came right, You're not doing them a favor, man. And I think that's what frustrates everybody. When you know it's the right thing to do, why not do the right thing right? And and I'll say it again, I'm

not even saying they had to hire DV. I'm saying I'm saying that though. I'm saying that though, because nine out of ten times, if it's a white coach sitting there and he is the sistant head coach, he's getting the shot to at least coach one game or two. And that's just the facts, bro. Like I said, I see, I've been on teams. Well, I've seen the guy in the film room and two days later here on the bench, Like I've seen this happen with my own eyes. So as you can't tell me that DV does not deserve

to be in that spot. But it's bullshit, and I say it, There's there's no doubt about it. It's bullshit. They finessed them, they got over on them, and they've been doing this for years. I think that I think that how they did this one is what really triggered a lot of people, because he's beyond qualified to take

over full time. Three. You renegotiate a deal, but the fact that they didn't even open after search, getting open it up at all didn't give You didn't give people that exist there a chance, people that have put their time in a chance. You didn't give other applicants who may have qualified for the position chance. You gave nobody a chance. You already hand picked it. It's just if you didn't even talk to your key players, you didn't match your key players. It's found cold, gang. But like

you said, this has been happening. It is just the fact that it was it was so foul that it had to be discussed. Um, take us back to your upbringing Canton, Ohio obviously where the Pro Football Hall of Fame is. UM, tell me about you, know, your childhood and when you first got into sports. Yeah, so I grew up in Canton, Ohio like you said before my parents were divorced at three years old and living my mom full time. Dad was down the street. He was

he was very involved. But I think the the thing that really helped me is that there's not a lot to do. And ken uh, in general, you play football, you play basketball, if you guys you played baseball, and and people in the streets and there's people that play sports, and there's the steel mill. You basically pick a career field and you can dedicate yourself to it because ain't nothing else to do. For me, I lived in the

area that that wasn't the best. I always say I grew up down the street from the hood, so like I could see what was happening, and if I wanted to be a part of it, I could be a part of it. But I had another space, had enough space where I was at to kind of like lay low and stay out the way. And my brother was was huge and influencing me and making sure I was doing the right thing. So I was the type of kid that could have easily went left. He made sure

I stayed right. In terms of preparation, work ethic help me with my homework. My mom preached the importance of grades, and at an early age, I heard my dad basically told us like, we can't afford to pay for your school, so either you get really good grades or you get really nice in sports. Those are your two choices. So I got decent grades, and then I tried to get as nice as possible in basketball, and I started off. I was very good early, but I was very small,

and I think my story is pretty well known. My freshman year high school, I was five two eight pounds and I was still I was nice. I played three quarters two quarters varsity and I was like twenty points and three quarters. And then I basically backed up my brother when he was a senior, so I didn't play much. My sophomore year, I was supposed to start, and they ended up starting this this kid whose dad was on

the the Booster club. I went to a school that was majority white, and I end up only averaging six points a game. And at that moment, I had to make a decision. I was about five seven hundred and twenty pounds and I had to make a decision. It was like, all right, do you commit yourself to academics or do you commit yourself to who? Because you got two years after get a scholarship, Moms already said she can't pay for it. And I almost quit because it

was so frustrating that I had to work. You know, at the same goes, you had to work twice as hard as the man in front of you because of circumstances and situation as to who they were, and and you're not getting your fair shape. So I worked hard to a decade myself to the game, and I went from averaging six points a game but twenty and I broke the school record of my first career start. I

scored fifty four points in eight threes. And my my first career started my junior year and Lehi sent me a letter the next day, and I had never heard le hired. But I was just happy, like a Division one school, like I thought I was nice. So I went through the recruiting process end up committing to going to le High. But the moral of the story is, you know, I almost almost gave this game up because

someone took away my joy. So, like what I tell kids all the time is, don't let nobody steal your joy. People gonna tell you can't do it. They're gonna tell you it's impossible. They're gonna give your statistics. As soon as I committed to Lee High, everybody talked about how that was the wrong decision. No one's ever gone pro from there before. Why is he going there? Why didn't he stay local? Why did he go to the MAC? I said, look, it was already written for me to

do this. Um, I'm going to Bethlehem. I believe in my Lord's Savior, Jesus Christ. I work on my game every day, and I said, somebody got to go pro, like somebody gotta go pro from here, So it's gonna be me. And that was just my approach. And it's it's crazy, how like people that you trust, people that you look up to, teachers, staff, they don't see a dream. They don't believe in your dream. You have to, you have to really speak it into existence. Then go work

for unapologetic and unbothered by the crowds. Because if I would have listened to the feedback I got from my peers, my own AU coach to this day, he said that I was a Division two player at best, but he didn't tell me. He told my mama. My mom didn't tell me till I got my first scholarship offer. She says, like, I don't want to. I don't want to discourage you. I felt like he would destroy you. I said, no, I would have got a scholarship offer earlier. If I

don't know what this. No, he was talking about bad on me like that. But like that's the kind of like mentality I had forever, Like I always thought I was gonna be nice. I always thought I was a hundred million dollar player, even before I was like, because I worked and then I just believed. And I think that's the that's my upbring is the It's the story of a kid who who was who was put in a position and took advantage of it better than most

would who else was recruiting you. So it's crazy because I wanted to go to Akron University because my cousin played football there and I took the visit. Shock as Smart who's at Texas now. He trained me when I was a kid, and he used to be at Akron, So they knew, they knew I wanted to go there. They had no scholarships left. They gave the only scholarship they had to Zeke Marshall. He was a seven fourth center.

He was top fifty Blue ship and they basically said, you have the pro prop forty whatever, you have to red shirt of the year, pay your way and then you can you can you can play after that. And I said, if I sit out a year, I won't make it. I said, I don't love school enough to be able to go and not who and they didn't offer me. Ken State ended up offering me Bold and Green ended up offering me. Boys the state recruited before

a while. Michigan or Dame were like my my other schools that I really wanted to go to, and neither one of those schools offered. Penn State didn't offer, so I basically had a bunch of mid majors University of Ferment. But as I waited, the scholarship disappeared. You know what I'm saying, Like, we got a scholarship for you if you can commit three days. Three days later, you see somebody at your position commit and you're like, damn. Like I thought I had ten scholarships, Now I got four.

Like it started dwindling. And I was like, you know what, man, I'm chasing something that don't exist. Like you gotta love us in front of you. You You gotta love what loves you, and I think a lot of times we we think something else is better than what you have. You think something else is like what you need to be fulfilled, and it might always it might be right in front of you. My mom and dad told me, don't miss

the boat waiting on another train. You know what I'm saying, Like, don't miss, don't miss what's in front of You're trying to catch something that don't exist. Be there first option. You're there, first option. Don't go be somebody second and third. And going to Lehigh is the best decision I've ever made in my life. I met my wife, I was able to learn, grow and develop as a man, and I got a degree. Like I'm a kid that grew

up down the street from the hood. That's knowledge, that can speak well, that's still nice and hoop and I can fight. So it's like perfect the perfect company. What was it like, I mean, you touched on it, but what was it like? What was your college experience like just as far as you know, being a real student athlete and then being a superstar on a smaller team, what was that experience Like it was like a movie man, Like it was literally it's literally like a movie like

I would do my whole college career over again. It was. It was a great time, but it taught me how to balance life. Like the academic course loan was crazy at lehigh, Like the the amount of studying you had to do to survive was unbelievable. Like it taught you how to balance your time. It takes you how to duty impossible, you know. Right twenty I was a journalist of major thirty page papers. I started off in the

business school learning about accounting and econ Like. It was crazy, the amount of dedication focus you had to put into it. It was also crazy that I was. I didn't spent a lot of time in the librar earlier, ain't gonna lie. I spent my time in the gym, and I dug myself in a hole. And then I had to like start going to the library, start trying to catch up, start trying to get ahead and figuring and figuring stuff out.

But in terms of hooping, I used to I used to go out, Like let's say I went out with some of my friends or whatever. We go out till twelve thirty one. I would come back and I'll go to the gym at one AM and I would work out, and I feel like I was still able to do the college student life but also working towards becoming a professional.

I think that's what kind of separated me, because I could balance the the life that comes with being a college athlete with basketball, with academics, and then eventually figuring out, you know, the social aspect of you know, who's gonna like whoo, who are you going to spend the rest of your life with? But I think it was it was a perfect combination of things that that kind of

fell into place for me. And I struggled early, which is why I probably succeeded late because I had always struggled in life, and that was just like, all right, what do I have to do to to kind of succeed And I'll do it. So your junior year, Um, the fifteen seed against the number two Duke seed. Take us back to that game and talk to us about it. You can. You scored a game high thirty. So when we when we drew Duke in the selection Sunday Show,

I was geeked. I was I was super high because for what I hate Duke Um, I hate everything about him. Just full disclosure. I always go to North Carolina fan, but I hate everything about it, and I felt like I felt like that was my chance to kind of solidify who I thought I was, Like I always thought I was a man, but the rest of the world

hadn't seen me. At people that that watched the mid major basketball teams in mid raging programs, they knew I had NBA quality talent, but they weren't sure if it translated, and they weren't sure if I could sustain a high level play against high level athletes. And I was like,

this is my perfect chance. I'm planned against Duke. They got Austin Rivers, they got Mason plum Ly, they got Miles plum Ly, they got three other NBA they had Quinn, They had like six seven NBA players, And I was like, I was like, this is my chance to show who I am and the show I can elevate my team, like I'm playing with I always joke I said that my friends, my friends worked on Wall Street, and I'm playing with like guys that that worked for Fortune five

companies and against NBA players, like the guys I played with, the the accountants for the for the Duke players in three years from now. So if I can up uplift them and play against them, this will solidified who I am. So I actually told my mom that we're gonna beat Duke and beat and beat who we're playing in the

second round. I said, we'll probably lose the Baylor because Baylor got Pierre Jack said they had all this Quincy Quincy mility, had all these like super super athletes, and I was like, I don't know, like we weren't really

athletic around here at at a Patriotleague school. So I went out there and in warm ups they was talking crazy, like you know how you go to half court and they just talking out of pocket, like just saying ridiculous rectly stuff, trying to like punk us in warm ups and I'm like, man like, like y'all y'ave built like that, Like, first of all, dude, players don't even really be nice

like that when they get to the league. You know, gangster's going to Duke, right, So they were talking crazy and where ups, but then like once the game started, like I let him know I was here and talking to the bench. I'm talking to coach k after shots like I'm let him know I'm here, Like I don't know, we all which I've been doing in the A, C C, but and none of these and none of these like me, you know what I'm saying, and we ended up going

to win. I think that was like the signature game for me to kind of solidify that like I can play in the league and I can hold my own, I can be a league guard, I can play off the ball, like I can give you whatever you want. So after doing what you did the Duke, how did that kind of catapult you into the national eye and start kind of getting the respect you always felt you deserved.

I think you put me in that like mid major stardom role to where you know, you had the Steph Curry's, you had the gymmer for debts Um, you had the George Hill situation. You had a lot of Eric Maynor a the players who were in similar situations, you know, where they are able to beat a a higher ranked team, a higher seed in the n C Double A tournament. You had to Steve nass situation where he was a

fifteen to beat the two seeds. Kind of put me in that same light to where it was like, you know, he has NBA potential X y Z. These types of players have done this this. These are what his numbers are like compared to them, And then it kind of set me up to where I was the next season. I'm a preseason All American. I had. I entered the draft that that year and had basically heard that I would be a late first round pick. And I had to decide if I wanted to leave or go back

to school. And I was like, I'm going back, Like I always wanted to be the man, This is my chance to be the man. Go to a small school. I wanted to. You know, some people don't want too much film on him. I was like, they can get as much film as they want on me. Like I believe in my game. I know that I can get back to where I was at and take my team even further. And I firmly believe if I didn't fracture my foot, like we was going to like the Lyde eight. Like we had a bunch of seniors. We were a

good team. We were about to be ranked in the country. Um we we had a pretty bou edgel was playing VCU. We were playing high major teams, well, the high major teams that would play us. Most of them was afraid Also the backstory funny part is so as I went to a you know, a small school like le High, and I wanted to play every school that didn't offer me. So I wanted to play Pinch State. I want to play Ohio State. I wanted to play the Dukes in North Carolina's but every school in Ohio and I didn't

recruit me. I really wanted to play him. And then I got cut from the USA team. Matt Painter was the head coach. Who was that was that Purdue uh Beheim was on the staff and two other coaches. So I went went back home and I told our coaching staff, I want to play Perdue, I want to play Syracuse. I wanna play all those schools, and they said that we'll play you when c J leaves. That was yes things. So that's that's kind of how it went. After that Duke game, I was I was just locked in, like

determined to get to the next level. And I got to go to CP three, I got to go to bron Skills Academy. I got to go to all those things and really expose myself to like what it's like to play at the next level. The Giant Killer. So two thousand and thirteen Draft you pick number ten overall. Oladipo goes number two, Janis goes fifteen. UM, Anthony Bennett goes one. What is it like going from your you know, small college experience to the bright lights of New York

City Draft night? That was crazy, Like just to be in New York and like to have my family there and my friends there, everybody came out and just to to be in that situation. Like I never knew that you got that much free stuff when you have money, Like it's crazy you get more. It's crazy, right, you would think you get more free ship when you have money to spend on it. They was just giving everything away.

Now It's like, man, I sure could have used this stuff, you know growing up and when I was in college, but like headphones, they just giving away watches, whatever, suits, And it was just like I was thing if I was able to spend that spend that time with my family and being able to experience, you know, sitting in the green room, um, the behind the scenes stuff, the the interviews, the storytelling, you know, sitting down with with Jalen Rose and and uh and some of those guys,

just getting ready for Bill Simmons getting ready for like what it's like to plan the NBA. I still remember, like some of the things that I was saying like rings true today, Like like i know I'm gonna be ready, I know I'm gonna work hard, and I'm not really worried about, you know, going to a small school. I'm not really worried about, you know, the transition from you know, a school with five thousand people to a big NBA city.

I said, look, man, I'm built for this and I'm just looking forward to the opportunity to to compete against the best. And I think that's been the most fun part is that you get the hoop for a living, Like you literally get paid to go hoop and you would do it for free and they're gonna pay you for it. Did you have any idea where you were going? Um during your lottery pick, but did you have any

inclinition of where you're going? The Sacramento Kings promised me at seven, they said that they're going to draft me um if I was available. And then then McLamore fell and they ended up drafting him. So I thought I was going to Sacramento Detroit. I had a good workout for Detroit and at the time they had Joe Dumars who went to a small school, so we had that like small school reputation. I thought they was gonna draft me.

They took a contagious called with Pope. I had a good workout for Minnesota and I thought they were going to draft me and they didn't. But I when I worked out for Portland's I had started talking to Dame. We started talking and stuff, and he was like, Yo, you're gonna be a lottery pick whatever whatever, and he's basically if you available, like, I think we're gonna take you. And then Neil are GM. I think, Matt you might

you might know Neil. No, shout out Neil Now. Neil used to train me before Neil was was a struggling actor in l a and he was a dope trainer and then he he ended up getting a position in Portland and did what he does. But Nil is my god man. Definitely shout out Neil Otle shack yeah man, Neil, good bye me for the rest of the life. I think I've named one of my dogs. And Neil after that, great, great dude, great all the bread. He didn't gave me

up we're gonna we're gonna name the dog. But so Neil was basically like, we're going to um draft you if you're available. We think that we could pare you

with Dame whatever whatever. So when I didn't go seven eight nine, I was like, oh ship, Like I'm about to go to Portland, like I've never been in the way I come to the East coast like man west kind, I had never been to Portland's only Portland I knew of really was Portly Maine like growing up, like you didn't like until I started watching start watching Stodomyr and stuff, and he was like okay, So I'm like, oh Ship, like Dame text me, oh Ship, and then my phone

died and then the rested like a hour and a half later, You're going through interviews and stuff and then it's like me, me and b worked out together. He was number one pick in Oladipa was my man. So we end up going and like man, like you know what it is after parties for days. Uh my Carter Waits is my guy. So we all like out just really kicking it. Just I was like, I'm didding this week.

They set you up. Do you think that forever bottle is gonna be free because on drafting, drafting everything you don't pay for ship. So we out here drinking and every one over we're going to every place you can think of. Don't get back to the hotel until like six and I don't have a press conference, so, like most guys have a press conference the next day, so they gotta fly out. They didn't do my press conference until like a month later, like summer league. So I

was cool. I drove home like two days later. I stayed in New York and drove home to Ohio. But it was it was crazy, Like I still remember the party. I still remember where I went, who I seen, like something I never forget. So was that your first interaction with Was that your first interaction with Dame right there when he was discussed they would possibly drafting you. No. When I broke my foot my senior year, a mutual friend of ours connected I think with Justine is the

one that connected us um via via text. And he was basically, you know, a guy who had broke his foot. He was a major player. He was he was a rookie at the time, like playing well, and I just wanted to ask him, like, how did you ever from this fracture foot you know what I'm saying, What type of drill should I be doing? What's the process like? And then just like as a guy who went to a small school and is in the league now, like how do how do I need to train when I returned?

Like how do I have success? Like early? So that's like those are questions I'm asking. I'm like, I want to emulate like people that are successful, Like what do you do? And then I'm gonna go do the same ship because that's what that's what works. So we started talking like that, just on some developmental stuff like mentally, like how should I be thinking? And then we just

naturally just became friends all like just through texts. And then the first time I met him in person was the draft lottery, So he represented the Portland Trail Blazers with a lottery. Me, Michael Carter, Williams a B and like two other players just went to the draft lottery to watch to see like what what team's gonna have what picks? And that's when we met and I was

just asking him questions about his mentality. How does he how does he treat the treat his workouts when he goes five for twenty, and how does he treat his workouts when he goes fifteen twenty and stuff like that. So it was organic, and I think that's why we're still friends to this day. There's no fallouts because we weren't forced to be friends. We was friends before we became teammates. And we built and we built from like similar backgrounds where you gotta work for what you what

you want in this life. You take care of your family. Um, you sharp, you solid, but you also blunt and direct. And I think we got that that perfect combination. What was your welcome to the NBA moment? I had a couple man Um Small, Crawford, lou Williams, Monelge Nobly those is, the Tony Parker too. This is like getting the lane every play t P. He caught three fists wedge. They'rerunning wedge over and over again. But those is, I'll give you all three of them. The first time I guarded

Jamal Crawford, he had three threes in a row. It was like bang, bang bang. I think I found him on one of them and get out. That was that was it. First time, Louis, I know you couldn't I ain't know, like you watch Lou and you think like lout nice whatever whatever, But like I'm just gonna guard him and you can't touch Loo. And he got to right the left crossover. Pump fake. He gotta right to left crossover like lean and jumper hit me with both first time right to lefty bang, second time pump fake.

I jumped. Yeah. I was like, oh man, so get him out. Next West Coast road Trip. I gotta play the Spurs. Next Welcome to the Landing Model Genoboli Manu. He starts talking in this language, looks at pop. He holds up like uh, in my mind, he called me a loser. He holds this up and I guess it. It's like angle, like he wanted to screen, like a high angle screen. He backs up the half court, he throws the ball, runs at me, year old. They run

the same place seven times in a row. He scored on five or six, and I think on the sixth one pass damn. I's like, you're this is this is different. I was like, dude, this is different. Like I'm thinking, like how am I going to survive in this league? Like I'm on a team where I can't show like I can't show I'm nice of offense because I'm standing in the corner because we got some real dogs. We got l A, we got Nico, we got West, we got a Dame. And I said, and I can't guard

nobody on the other team. How am I play? Yeah? What did you learn about yourself through that experience? Though? Like I said that, you were throwing in the fire and then, like you said, the worst part is not to get no get back? So what what? What did you kind of learn about yourself in those moments? I was frustrated, man. I used to go home angry. I go home angry man, and I used to be like, man, I gotta figure it out because I'm a lottery pit. I went to a small school. I got hurt right away,

so I didn't get to play. And now I'm watching my peers succeed, and that's what hurts. And then it didn't hurt because they were succeeded to hurt because I knew I was capable of doing a lot of similar things. And I was happy for Mike Carter Waiting, I was happy for Odipo, the guys that got to start right away. I was happy for them because I know I know how hard they worked, but I was just thinking, like, man, like, I wonder what my situation would be like if X,

y Z, you know what I mean. And that's when I was like, you know, I just make the best of your situation and stop being stop comparing yourself to others. And I think that's when I really realized I always say a comparisons to thief, thief of joy, just enjoy your life, enjoy what you have, and make the best of it. And I think that's when I transition to all right, how do I guard better? How do I still impact the game if I'm not gonna get touches?

How do I get extra repts in practice? But I know I'm not playing, And I think that was my mentality of all right, you just gotta figure out how to stick around the league. And it's a long season. They got to give you a chance at some point, so just be ready when it comes again. And I think I was ready at the right times. Wesley Matthews terraces Achilles Aaron and follow hurts his shoulder. I'm third string shooting guard, third string point guard. The starting shooting

guard gets hurt and the backup gets hurt. They had to play me, had to and that's when I started like killing. We go to the playoffs and play against Tony Yallen the Memphis Grizzlies, and that's when they're like okay, like he's well, he's he's who we thought he was. And then they let West walk. He signed with Dallas and they say, you're gonna go from playing fifteen minutes

a game to thirty three and you're gonna play. You're gonna play twenty of them at at the two in twelve or fifteen at the one, I said, damn, what about the I'm about the backup the one too, I'm gonna have a ball. It was like, yeah, I said about to kill. I'm about to kill. Who gives you that kind of talk? Though? That management? The coach, Who's who gives you that talk? Yeah? So Neil sat me down and with Terry and they were like we're gonna let We're gonna basically like we can't afford West West

West end up signing for seventy four million. It was like the Marcus is leaving, so we're gonna start the rebuild basically like it was supposed to be a rebuild. They end up, we signed like Afrew Comino and we signed Mo Harcless. We signed some players Nick Mason, Blason Plumbly, and we lost Robin Lopez, Nick Betune, Wesley Matthews, LaMarcus all Dress, Moe Williams, basically Steve Bla. Everybody that played

my position was gone. And I was just looking at It's like, this is like a dream come this is what I asked for. It's like a dream come true. And I remember at draft night, I was sitting with my financial adviser, I'll never forget it, shout out to my guy, Joe Godwin, and we're sitting there in Wesley signs with Dallas like draft DA, LaMarcus leaves, like all

this stuff is happening. Nick latun Um league, he gets released or traded and we're going over like my finances and I was like, I want to buy a new car, like I've been in the league two years, Like I need a car whatever whatever. And he was like, well, based on like where we're at right now, you average x amount of points per game, like blah blah blah blah blah, like how much you think you should spend on the car. And I'm like I was like, honestly,

I always wanted to ask that, Martin. So I want to buy Ason Martin, but I didn't want to buy it until like I locked it like a long term deal, and he was like, what do you think your market is? And I was like, he was like, Jeff Tique had just got like thirty two million or something like that. He was like, Jeff Tie got this. We're looking at like player of comparisons. And I was like, I was like, I think I'm gonna get like eighty two a hundred million.

He like, he looking at me like you just just average six points a game last like you know, like he like keeping them keeping in the buckle me like every six points a game last year. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I said, yeah. But they're getting rid of the whole team, which means they're gonna have to play me. And if they play me, I'm not looking back, like I'm gonna really i gonna really go to work and I'll never

forget it. When I signed for I signed for like a hundred four years, a hundred and six million, and I called him. I said, when I'm buying this, I'm buying this, asked Martin my twenty fifth birthday. I told you that's dope. I love that story. That's what's up. So once you're in in a position to get consistent minutes, how long did it take for you and Dame to jail?

But it's crazy because Dame always used to tell me like I used to be like, bro, like damn, they don't like me, Like they're not playing me, they ain't messing with me. Um, I'm forgetting plays like so like sometimes coach throw me in and I'm forgetting plays. I'm not locked in, I'm not engaged. I was just doing like young NBA players ship like I wasn't. I wasn't acting the way I was supposed to act because I

was disappointed in my role. I was disappointed in how I was being used, and I didn't approach you the right way. But as I kind of grew, immatured. It only took me one time for a coach to be like what the name of the referees and me did not know. Then I was like, damn, he trying to He trying to give you a chance to either succeed or fail, and you're failing, Like figure it out. And then I started to figure it out and Dame used to always be like, they drafted you for a reason. Bro,

it's gonna be and you in the back cord. We're gonna be one of the best duos to ever play. Like. He used to say this stuff when I wasn't playing at all, because they've seen how I worked and how I wasn't practiced. He was like, we're gonna be cold, bro,

watch just watch. And so as soon as they gave me a chance to start my first my first start as like a like a lad the guy in my third year, I scored like in the first six in the first quarter the first quarter of my first start my third year, and that's when he was like, oh, he's for real, Like like we started empowering each other. I passed ahead, he passed ahead. I get on the ball,

I play, I'll play off. I'll initiate the offense. I'm like, you go over here, you go over there, whatever, whatever. I run into the second unit and he comes back in. We put two him sometimes like I stopped in for him. He's supping for me. And we played together and we just kind of figured it out. And now eight years later, we still like besides Stephan Clay, like how many guys are still together, like right, So once you're in there getting consistent burn, what was it night and night out

with with with with your menu? I mean, you're gonna give CP, You're gonna come against James Russ, Steph Clay, Kyrie, John Wall, Bill Connley like you name it, like every night it was work. But what was it like being know that finally be in that position you knew you were capable of being and it was fun, man, But you just you learn the importance of taking care of your body, especially when you're younger. So back to backs.

I used to be mad because you know, you playing against the elite player in general, right, everybody nice, And then you look at the schedule and they had two days off and you're coming in on the back to back where you later the two or three A and I'm like, dang, this is I wish I was fresh

for this one, you know what I mean? And you just kind of psych yourself out and go who but to compete against those guys, I mean even y'all, Like I used to have to chase JJ's ass around and get hit by them illegal screens, DeAndre be Setting and Blake screens and then you go to another night and you gotta guard. You gotta guard Clay and Staff, and it's two different animals. So you gotta catch and shoot Monster who just runs around. He's six seven, he can

also post up. You played great defense, doesn't matter. And then you got Staff, who bo bo bo bop bop shooting, keep doing all of this stuff and kissing you all and and then and then the next night you gotta go guard James on the island. It's just it was just a lot, but it was It was fun for me because it was the challenge. It was like, all right, now you get to really see where you're at, and you get to try to guard some of these best players and still try to produce some offense, which is

really hard to do. And I just enjoyed the challenge. And then you go guard Brad, and Brad got everything he got. The minute he got the paint finishing, he can shoot threes. It's just like exactly what you envisioned. It's like, this is this is what I always wanted, and now I'm out here living in and then having fun.

But then you also get some payback. You get some get back now though exactly exactly and the hunger is is crazy because you used to show up to the arena and know and you're not gonna play Like you used to take the taxi this before uber. You take the taxi or the or the hotel town car to get to the arena at three fifteen because that's your workout for the day. You know what I'm saying. Like I had o g Earl Watson and we used to play ones twos, and he used to be like, this

has gotta be your game. So I'm running the stairs before the game thinking that, like if another team is watching, they don't see, like this kid really works, this kid, this kid comes in by four thirty. I didn't got it. I didn't got a good two hours in. I'd have lifted. I've shot out and played once. I'm out there with the cheerleaders, the cheerleaders dancing, anymore of me nothing. I'm out there early trying to get it in. Shout out Earl Watson. That was my college point. That's my god.

We're actually working on the show together right now. But Earl was a Earl was a real vet. Yeah, girl, I played with Earl. Chris came in and d right shout to my guy, d right, shout out d right, that Chris came in like taking showers by the time you I'll played together because that mother don't want to take no showers early on. One of the most Chris is one of the most interesting funny heater blood Why who last dude? Too cool? D is a fan? Cool

is a fan. Yeah, we have to we have to had good team mote wait ands used to make me sit in this room. It's impossible to be cool with your hygene is bad. It come get me, no way you can be cool in your high Jens bad. I'm sorry. It's nothing. It's nothing cool about you. It's nothing. I can't be cool with you. Nothing coolbout like no, I

don't see that. I can't speak to the showers. I don't remember the shower part, like I just need no. I played no, I played with him, So I played with him and oh three his rookie year and he had game. But that motherfucker used to be the motherfucker that would play and then put his jeans on and teacher, I gotta shower at my house. Well I'm a shower here, Like mom, you just played twenty five minutes. What the

fucking me, why are you gonna shower here? Because there's eight hot ass showers and they get asking one of them. And that motherfucker used to stay just putting his motherfucking clothes on after a game and go home and shower anyway in shout out, shout out, Chris Caman man like

I said that, cool dude. I came in. So you mentioned early on c J. You guys have been in the playoffs every year, and I think I wanted to talk to you about the Warrior dynasty that you guys went up against, because you guys had some chances and the Warriors were kind of big brothers almost quote unquote to you guys in the playoffs. Talk to us about what you learned and how good those Dynasty teams were.

I learned a lot, man, just from from interacting, uh with some of those players, competing against them, um losing playing the playoffs, being up twenty against the Warriors and watching the lead disappear. I think it just seems like

being up five. Yeah, it teaches it teaches you how to play lead basketball, like when you go up against the elite ones, like especially that's seven, that's seventy whatever, and whatever season, they were playing some of the best basketball I've ever seen, Like the way they moved the ball to pace. Obviously staff, they had a lot of different pieces. Iggy was playing at that time. They had hb they had Boget. Like the way they played was

just like a fun brand of basketball to watch. And then you get out there with him and you compete, and that's when the roar, like the Oracle roar was different. So like you know that, like the run is coming at some point, you just trying to withstand it. He's like, yeo, we just gotta withstand this run. It's coming at some point. And then bang bang bang bang for a threeas in a row. WHOA like fun. He didn't go so like it was. It was a great experience. And I'll say

all the time it wasn't for them. We probably get to the probably get to the finals one of these years. Bullshit. I definitely. I said, you guys had a solid, solid team, but you would run into the Warriors. Yeah, And that was the buzz all that like a lot of people couldn't get over to hunt brun bless his heart, and being able to come back from from three one that

that man especial, but it was. It was a great learning experience, and I think because of that we're better the character understanding, the appreciation of the game, Like we we better because of that. Absolutely. I'm sorry. Nah ship he came with his funny. I can't stop laughing that ship it came. But oh god, that is funny. That is funny. All right, here we go. That ship was. The ship was classic, bro. So what was the matchup

between backcourts? Because you guys are arguably at the time, you know one A, one B. You know, you could throw Wall and Bill in there, but I thought you and Dame were right behind those two. What were those matchups? Like? They were fun? Man, there was. It was a lot of fun because we're all like competitors and it's it's funny because they always say light skinned guys and killers, but them light skin brothers killers, you know, they really

really want to win. The way they play is crazy, like they play off of each other, the movement, the screening, one person gets hot, like the whole team feeds them. Draymond always talking crazy. But I like, like, I'm built

for that life, So I enjoyed that. That's fun for me and just the the amount of trash that we talked, like to Draymond and to the rest of the staff, and the challenge of having to guard Clay, having to guard staff and then wanting them to guard you on the other and chasing stuff like tell dep go at him. You can't like there's no possessions off to where you might score on me. But I'm kind of right back, like I'm not I'm not running from it. And and if if I feel like you're running, bring him up

here in the pick and roll, go fight. I think Luca does it, James does it, like you go find somebody like I want him, bring him up here. And that's how we talk to each other, like go get him, Go get your turn and go to work like that. And I think that's the fun part of playing in the NBA with people that you get along with and then compete against the best, because Steph wants to go guard you, Clay wants to go guard you for the most part, like they look forward to that challenge. But

let's say Clay's on Dame and steps on me. I'm trying to go at step and then I'm like, all right, your turn, you go at him. Because Clays six seven. You know what I'm saying, two hundred pounds. He can move his feet. He's a big guard, and you want to make step as tired as possible in offense because that's like it was one of your only hopes is to try to wear him out so that he's tired and shots coming up short. So what did you guys learn from those experiences that bettered you guys, um as

a team, as individuals moving forward in your careers. I think the importance of camaraderie. I think that's huge, being able to go out to dinners, being able to kick you with your teammates, being able to fail. I think losing to the Warriors, getting swept by the Pelicans, I think we responded really well to those types of situations. We get swapping and then we end up going to

the Western Conference Finals the next season. It teaches you how to get through a long, gass season, man, Like there's gonna be great wins and there's gonna be some shitty losses to where you're looking around and you're like, damn, Like we just lost by one year, we lost by forty five, you know what I mean? Like that's crazy, that's almost fifty points you're losing by in the game, but then you gotta go play the next night or two nights later, and you gotta forget all about that.

And your team has to be able to compartmentalize, like what we're trying to accomplish leading up to the playoffs. But I haven't talked to some of the O g s. It's just like the role players are huge. Like the role players need to be able to play well, be stars in their roles. You've gotta empower them, and you gotta appreciate the little stuff like the big fellow that's set in screens and getting you open. You gotta appreciate that because they're sacrificing for you to eat. Feed them

a little bit. Yeah, you couple dump OFSS here and there? What you mean? Right? So that that's what's been been helpful for us. It's thinking about that balance. How do we get the best out of everybody and then how do we steal survive Like it's it's illegal about surviving. Like when when stuff don't go well, they're looking to the change things. So you gotta make sure stuff is going well, you guys. Two thousand, two thousand, nineteen Western conference.

Uh final run started off with you guys in the Thunder and the Westbrook and PG and and you and and Dame. How what was the energy like obviously there's some animosity between that situation, but what was just the energy like and then Dame is able to close it out and fucking way goodbye to them? What was the energy around that series? Like it was it was a lot of anger. I think there's a lot of remember

texting before the game. I remember texting and like it's just like you don't take things personal, but you look forward to the challenge of solidified like who you are and what you are. And I think the fact that like we had that regular season and I think they caught Russ saying that I've been busting your ask for years, Like I'm busting your ask for years, Like they cut that on video, and that was like a trigger, Like

that trigger that was a trigger. The fact that it's Russ, Like Russ is an elite player, average a triple double, he's aggressive, he's gonna rock the baby on you, he gonna too small, like he's gonna do all of that, and you, like I enjoy it, Like that's fun for me, Like I want to go compete, and then you got pg who uh and one of the games they beat us, he win me at the buzzer and that like in my mind that wasn't fuck you, Like that's like in

my head he was saying fuck you. So like we're all thinking about that as we're playing in the series and all the reporters picked us to lose, you know what I'm saying, Like you watch ESPN every day, You're watching this stuff, and they're like, yeah, the Blazers don't stand a chance, like they're talking about PGS an All star, RUSS is an All star m VP, like we can't in ten the players have one all star like and I'm watching it and I'm like, these niggers must not

know who I am, you know what I'm saying, Like that's what I'm thinking, Like like that's what I'm thinking, Like they must not know like I really do this, especially in the playoffs, like I really I show up like and I pride myself on showing up in big games. So I'm looking and we text each other. I said, if we out played him, if we all played it,

we went this series, That's all I said. Like when your matchup and he started the game with a thirty six footer like that's that's my that was that was his you know, it was on I'm here, I'm here, straight face. I pull up off the tip, the tip, ball came, two dribbles, bang. Looked at him like, I'm here, and that's what I knew. I said, so I'm clapping. I'm like, we got action action and we we just we really wanted it and we went after them. They went after us. It was competitive, it was fun. Um.

We knew we had them on the ropes. And I remember talking of my brother. That was the year before I was able to go out and see him in Turkey because he plays in Europe. And I was like, I ain't gonna be able to make it next year, and he was like, what you mean. I said, We're gonna go far in the playoffs next year, so I ain't gonna be able to make it out here to see you. And right after we beat him at their crib and went up three one, I said it in

the press conference. I said, yeah, I ain't gonna be able to see my brother this season because we're gonna be here for a while like that, and then we get to the game game five and Dame hits him with a fifty piece McNugget and then walk off three and then he waved that was so killer how he just like I was like, I was like, I'll never forget that. I'll never forget it. That was tough. That that way was cuss cuss wards were flying out that way. Boy,

that ship was cold blooded. So you guys take Denver and seven, Um, you're playing great. At about twenty six a game, six rebounds, three assists, you get to Golden State, done dune Dune, So what what? Like I said, you have to face them. You guys have faced them before, you've seen them. But you guys, like I said, you guys, you guys were learning from each experience building up to this. You step into Golden State, talk to us. Yeah, that

was tough, man. And I think the Denver series was a lot like seven games have to win on the road, a three or four overtime gag like it was. It was just a It took a lot of energy, It took a lot of emotion to get through it, and I think we grew up from it. But when we got into that that Warrior series, it was a different animal like the way they played the pace, how quick the turnaround was. We go from a game seven off day game the next day like we traveled and we

got up. We would get leads and then we just blow them. And I think it was because of their athleticism, their game planning, their ability to shoot, and our lack of execution down and stretch of games and some some good moments to where we could have could have closed the door, and we did it, and I end up calling us to series and that's why we end up getting I think we got swept at that season and we were we led for more minutes than we old and we didn't win a game in this series, which

is crazy. That shows you the last the last two minutes, the switch would come on and they would get just enough stops to run away. Yeah. Crazy, crazy. So the following season, last season is the bubble. You guys get hot at the right time, capture the A seed. You have a fucking legendary interview where you imitate Mike Tyson. Where did where did where did that idea come from?

And then we'll get back to the basketball park. That was funny it You know when I when I first when I first salut my wife, the the YouTube interview and Mike where he's like, I broke my back spine after the game, we're talking in Dame, like he goes spinal and so then I was like, I broke my back, but I just did it because he triggered me. He said it it was like a trigger, and it was.

It was hilarious. So what were your thoughts on I love it personally, but what were your thoughts on the play in format and how they use it in the bubble and then brought it back this year as well. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed playing it. I thought it was fun, it was competitive, it gave the fans something to watch, and although I would like to not playing it again right, I'd like to have a better seed.

I think it's great. It's great for the game. I think it's great for the sport, and people really are enjoying it. What was your playoff experience like without fans? It was different. Man. It's like it's like playing in a competitive practice, like a like an intense inter squad scrimmage or like against another team. But once you once the ball gest rolling, like you just go whoop. But just like the intensity with the with the actual fans,

like the energy that you get from their fans. Like imagine if we're playing again the Lakers and we beat them in Staple Center game one, Yeah, saying like that, they probably getting boomed like that, the shift is crazy,

and then you lose game two. But when you go home to Portland for Game three, and then that's like you already you split and now you have the crib, you know what I'm saying, Like just like miss like missing that would have been would have been ideal, like having that and I would have liked to play in cities with fans like I would have liked to play

like that game in Memphis. Yeah, you know what I'm saying that that would have been cold to beat them on their home create like to get to the playoffs, Like it's like going to somebody frigerator and drinking their juice. So real quick. I like the way you broke that down, because I don't think that people don't really understand is that fans so you go into Staples Center high, but then in the first round you take the wind out of their sales. So like you said, game two is

a battle. But once you get to the parking lot in Portlands, Like, your fans are gonna be going insane as soon as you get out. The gym is gonna go crazy. And you guys have a hell of a quot home court advantage, so to not have any of that type of energy, that ship is big. It's bigger than people realize. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that's what we miss about the sport, Like it's hard to play im portlandly I was in the league, Like, our fans

is crazy. It's loud, they show up early and I still be beat by game time, so I don't even know. That's yeah, that's what they say. Look, that's what they say. The smoke CJ. Welcome to the smoke Baby Mades said no, but Sai though, But yeah, our fans is crazy, man, they come out. We love them, They support us. They wear the T shirt, always say they're not too cool to wear the T shirts, and they empower us. And I think our record is a lot better at the career.

We win a lot more games at the house, and I'm looking forward to the playing in front of them, But I'm also I'm looking forward to playing on the road, Like I like playing on the road and having road fans, like seeing it look on their faces, like when we get them bur in game seven, and like seeing the look on their faces. Man, it's just so. It's one of the biggest joys is to just see the disbelief and the anger and the confusion of like a road

fan after you deflating the building. It is the best feeling. Bro. Tell us a little about your podcast, The Pull Up and did your journalism Blackground have a role in that or what was your h want behind getting into the podcast space. Yeah, my my journalism degree definitely played a

role in my decision to have a podcast. I always been big on wanting to keep my degree alive and being able to share stories, tell stories, being able to get players to share certain things and just kind of connect with the fans at a different level was was the main goal. But yeah, Pull Up Hoods will be

relaunching at some point in your future. Just storytelling and keeping people up to date with what's going on around the league and people up to date with with some of my opinions and thoughts on what's happening in the world. I think all those things are important and it's fun. Like I enjoyed hosting a podcast. Yeah, look at hey, Rachel, face time me back CJ. She said, we're sharing custody of you real quick. Yeah, we're gonna finish up with I'm real quick. And then he's right onto you. We're

on the last question. Thank you, Rachel, appreciate it. Thank you. She said, you're all good. I completely forgot because my phone did not the stair. So nah, we got connections over here. We got you, bro, all right, So here we go, quick hitters, Um, toughest matchup for you. I don't think we have to played against each other, so you ain't. You ain't gonna say me, I don't think

we ever played against each other. I would say, I would say Brad and Brad and Steff, Brad and Steff, two different games, two different games, catch and shoots, all of that. Yeah, you you plus four going to the park to on the court. You plus four? Who are you taking with you? Yeah? Outside where you might have to fight. That's a great point. Um, you might have to fight. You gotta bring James Johnson and don't fight one of them, one of them. I gotta bring James.

I'd probably take I take dang um Dane, Katie Bron and James Johnson, James Johnson good, Hey you're good, y'all straight, Dame can box still straight? Yeah, you can fight too, y'all gonna be good. Uh, your top five artists, I'm gonna go Hove, don't forget you from the Midwest. Bro. What you want to throw Nelly in there or something? Tupacket Biggie obviously legendary, but they passed early, you know what I'm saying, Like they didn't even get a chance

to hit their prime. If you're going body of work and you gotta include them, that's three Andre, Andre, three Stacks and Drake. I like that, and I like that little mind. But then like I like Jake Cole, Like these are all these people that I really love. So it puss me, It pushed me in, It puss me in a tough spot. But I say, Jake hole six, many can't go wrong. N You're all time starting five, Mike Yep, Brian m hmm, Kobe mm hmm, shock m M.

That's my identical. We've identical so far. What I would say the four is tough, Like you could go Bill Russell, you could go KG, you can go KD, you go Tim Duncan that's my pig. Yeah. Mm hmm. You can slip. You can slide brown to the four. I mean ship, you got options, I go, I go Tim Duncan, and then I got I would have kg KG six man, Katie Katie h first card off the bench? Okay, nice? Nice? Uh? Five dinner guests, dead or alive, drinking your drinking your

wine Obama? Alright, jay Z, I'm on a billionaires So we either go Elon Musk or Bill Gates. I wanna you know, I need to tap into that financial knowledge. I would go Mark Martin, Luther King Jr. Probably Michael X. Would be an interesting conversation. Man, that'll be nice. That'll be nice right there? Who do you want to see on All the Smoke? But before you answer this question your answer, you have to help us with the answer. So who do you think should be on All the Smoke?

I gotta help with the answer. Um, come on, bro, it's this should be real easy. He ain't been on the Dead Yeah, God, damn, he ain't been on the damn show. We didn't make videos about this, nigga. I didn't d m him. I didn't talk to him a meniantime. We're waiting no, Dame du Yeah for you. Hey, crazy enough. He was supposed to be our very first guest and it just didn't work out. But anyway, Man, we know you in a hurry. Ce J, thank you for your time,

man Jack, great show. I appreciate you having me on. And I meant to tell you my movement specialist. He's a big, big fan of y'all. Devin, So my god, Deva, He's gonna be happy. I'm on here. Shout out, bro, Damn, shout out man, Shout out to the home. Appreciate you're broken healthy. You can catch all the smoke on Showtime Basketball in I Heart Platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next week. This is all a Smoke, a production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime