Chris Webber | Ep 78 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

really handshake. I know it's the pandemic, but how them Still, it was just how cool lamb at this moment that just seemed you know, yeah, just right. Got a weak code three yeah nineteen to know what you is? I'm s and one. Yeah, So we're good man. But we got a special guest today. Man. Uh, I can't explain what this dude meant to me and my journey right from the beginning. But we'll get into that obviously, But man, welcome Hall of Fame nominee Chris Webber, Big bro Man.

Have the checkout Goustin Radio th night. Yeah, watch you hey, I'm glad to have I kind of call feelings that I ain't been invited on, so we've been I've been trying and you got the babies now too, So you know what that dad's like. What's the dad life been like during this pandemic. Obviously you get to spend more time with him, but tell us what you got to about to be four year old twins? Talk to us about that on the real This is besides going to work.

It's the first time I've been around people in the year. That's all. I want to have a drink with you. I'm your first brother and hugged and what I'm saying for real, And so it's been you know, we've been to ourselves kind of, but it's been the livest moments, you know what I mean. I'm there with him. It's like I had no excuse not to be there, not to be engaged. So we're doing everything. I'm you know, I'm challenging them and my little girl know she's the

strongest girl in the world. My I know, you know, he's the strongest boy in the world. We just just live, you know, just out there at the web state, out there living good. What's uh, what's one thing positive negative you took from I took being grateful. So for me, like you know, you know, your mind's always working thinking. I really like thought like, damn, my parents about to be married fifty years. I got kids, my brothers are cool,

you know, all the stuff we pray for. Like I'm like, because you know, you just sit there and you take you take it all in from a minute, and usually you get really grateful when something great happened and things were going every day. I was just like, stay grateful. You your parents alive, the brothers here, no one's hurt. He got COVID, didn't matter, you know what I'm saying. So the one thing I took away is be grateful.

And the other thing I took away is, you know, when it's time to hit the ground running, Matt, I'm gonna get back to myself and get back to to working hard and living hard. You know I'm a little excited about that. Well, that's the one thing to me like taught you know, with obviously starting last year with Cobe and along down the line, just to trickle down

effect of this negative ship. That's the one like you gotta live and and normally it takes bad stuff to make us realize how thankful and grateful we are, but I think we lived a whole year of that and it's on a whole nother level. It's been a crazy uh NBA running the bubble and then currently what is you know, what are your thoughts on the NBA. I mean you're commentating games now doing that, but thoughts on just the current state of the NBA, considering the pandemic

we're in. You know, I didn't feel that, you know. I'm glad the fans enjoyed the All Star Game, you know, but I didn't understand the time and of that with everything that was going on. Um, I think the players right now, I get them a lot of credit. I don't know how to be able to to navigate with this. You know, when they were in the bubble, man, I was out there like eighty three days uh after the game, stag like's no place to go relax, no place to

go hang out. I'm still with in the same hotel rooms, you know, just the hotel rooms. Mentally just in on you. Yeah. So I mean these young casts, I'm not gonna lie. When I went to the bubble and saw how they handled it, and I was just commentating and I was getting in and out of there. I was like, I couldn't do it, And you know, so I think the league is in a good place with the players, and I hope that the game gets to be as beautiful as it as it always is. But I hope that

it's less it's less specialists and more hoopers. You know, I just want to see that, not that the specialist. So I hope. I hope teams and analytics allow people to play that style instead of just standing in the corner play basket. But I agree with the way the game is up and down, free flow, and you were one of the early bigs to be you know, stretched forwards, passing forwards. How do you think your your style of play would fit in the current NBA. I love it

play to day. When I played the big man, it couldn't even leave the three on two drill down to the sorry coaches man, Sorry coaches man. So yeah, I would. I would have love to play today, especially on the high post or the past or the handoff and cut things like that, especially when I could jump a little bit before. I would love it. So that's why I love watching Yokish and be you know, I love watching you know a lot of guys do their thing out there. Yeah.

I love playing today. I love what you enjoy watching today. I like I like yokih I like him be when he going to work in the post. I love watching Simmons on the break when he has the ball hardened. Kyrie with their handles, you know, I you know, it's so funny getting of the season. So you know, I done a movie with Kyrie. I don't know him. I don't know if I ever talked to him on the phone, you know what I mean. I got respect for these guys, but I don't know them like that. So at the

beginning of the season, I'm with him and Harden. I'm saying Hard and should get out of Houston. It's messed up. He has a black coach. But Steven Silas gonna be all right, man, did they hired the black coach just so I can give you the guilt of the black player? Like we do? You know what I'm saying. I'm like, Hard to get out of there, because at the end, we're gonna say you as a loser because you stayed with this team. I know a little about that, so

I'm like, Hard is the call man. I don't know the time basketball players shouldn't do any this then Kyrie. You know, I'm like, he's incredible. I know he against the media and were on the media side now whatever, but I get it, you know, And I think if the media looked at different personalities like wrestling, you know what I mean, like iron Chic, you know he over

there in Nicolau Vocal even Russia. Like Kyrie gotta walk up stick and he don't talk use that, you know what I mean, Like, don't don't make him like everybody else, you know what I'm saying that. So I remember getting the season saying, man, they're gonna be cold and have I remember just seeing the hate from the media to board and I was like, oh yeah, snap out of remember you remember that. You know everybody got there all

terror motives with it. And it's funny. I said all that to say, now it's funny that everybody loves you know, Kyrie should be and hardened him going there getting assists like that. Don't surprise me. No one blame Dan Tony for the way hard and play. Nobody, nobody, nobody, Dan Tony wanted him to play that way. He would tell us, he would tell us like blame it on me and um, so for you know, players today, I love the young ones and I also love the oldham was just had

to go find their way and still reinventing herself. And to me, Harden and Kyrie those my tooth, you know, two of my favorites to watch book or a lot of books, a lot of boys. I talked to Kyrie all the time, so you know, we all been misunderstood and that's just it. But when they're kind of playing basketball, you can't tell him that. Well, you guys to talk about you got a chance to play with Rod Strickland.

Talk to me about the similarities you see between Kyrie and Rob because to me, Robert so underappreciated and respected. But obviously Kyrie gets his jest serve. He's, you know, one of the best players we've ever seen. Yeah, I know, yeah, and and this was dope. This is our job, in my opinion, our job is to keep that respect right here. But uh, to appreciate these young boys, but to let him know who came before, you know what I mean, because they ain't just start with with these young boys.

And I remember saying that people, Hey, why do you always say Rob strick Because I played with him, the coldest man never to make the All Star Game. You need no disrespect to Connley. Conley was the oldest I think of Connie ko. But if you like the best finishing under six fo yeah handles that you didn't even know how. He was driven and taped his fingers up. One of the greatest teammates you have. And you can't tell me that his father, Desert and Roger Strickland didn't

have an influence on this game. Because this little stuff Kyrie do that I don't even I get excited in the game, and I'm like, I'm not even gonna explain that right now because y'all won't even get it. Like when he doesn't end and out scoop left hand and throws it up, that stuff that your brothers can't even do what they right hand. But Stack, you know what,

you're right here. You you know how you can go this far with you're right with your left he might come, I mean, he go the same yeah he man, he he. He has to be the best left hand. He has to be the best off and finisher in the game. I don't even like saying the best, but I don't.

I don't I can't even think of about it. No, you need the skilled talented, and that's too like I took because like Jack said, you know, Jack is is close to Kyrie, and I took kind of a different approach when I would hear some of the things he said,

and that was my fault too. And I eventually hopefully get him on the show and sit down and talk to him, because to me, I just kind of wanted to have a plan with everything he was doing that I would outspoken against him, But then talking to Jack and getting more of an understanding for him, now I

kind of see what it is. And like you said, like obviously playing against him and knowing Kyrie Irving the great basketball player, I don't know the man you know, and I think I think sometimes we forget that, like we had the same reputation, even you had the same reputation where they see a snippet of you and think they know who you are and it's the furthest thing from the truth. But I like it very honestly, And you don't have to play basketball to to have an opinion.

There's a lot of people, but I like it when we disagree because it's a point of reference. We come from, and I could be like, all right, I trust that. I trust him enough to let me think about the other side and you know what I'm saying instead of him just being here. So that's why I like our conversations or like him what we say about it. But yeah, I was just saying more that off the course stuff I really don't ever even listen to with no player.

I was just saying more with him, like he gonna ball, like he wouldn't leave Boston, like a bad teammate in Boston. Whatever you want to say all this, but he's not gonna do all that and not who you can't do all what you can say whatever you want, like Harden is not gonna say this team not good enough and then go there and they're trouble getting k D back and maybe picking up up Big to shure up that front line. I mean, I want right on anything I wanted to. I want five g dog. I told him.

I told my little partner. I said, you know, I said, Blake fooling that Blake fooling y'all saying, no, man, lois his athletic not not as much athletic a believe as he had. I could call Alo other weaker lose out athletic. He can't lose. He can little tend interest and still have a third and still be he come back and talk and get a little smile. I'm like, yeah, that's a big pick up. I mean, Jack mentioned that that's

gonna be a real big pick up for them. If you know, if his knees could stay what they need to be, that's gonna be a scary team. Man. Take us back to your upbringing, Detroit, the city, your childhood, and then going from where you grew up and played to a school like country day. So I grew up in Detroit. You know, my father, he's the smartest man. I know, he's the man um. But you know, he really grew up in the South. He really grew up on the plantation. He really grew up picking cotton, you

know what I mean. And uh, he had a tough life and he came to Detroit to work in the auto factory. My mother, on the other hand, came from a tough life, but she had you know, it was a teacher and she was always going to school. That's all I remember, taking us like two classes, some little thing, giving us a piece of paper, right, playing on the floor. She in the class or my father the auto factory, and um, it was strict household, dog like it was. No,

it was strict. I'm the oldest of five. You know. It was church every Wednesday, Bible class, church every Saturday. Well seven o'clock at night. That's um choir reheards for my mother's the choir director. You know how my son, so I got the same. I got some video dog on the show. I gotta say as a video. But yeah, small church, like thirty people and seven of them is my family. You know what I mean. You grew up in the hood like everybody else, and um, like three bedrooms,

one bathroom. My brother used to pee on me. Shout out, shout out to shout out to Jason. You think he's some of your attorney in Atlanta, ladies, Yeah, if you think he's smooth, No, but he used to He used to pay on me so much. Dog. If we used to sleep together. I have a towel on the on the floor and I just picked the toller pick them up. Yeah, I had to get to sleep, um man. I used to cut out posters and my whole room was filled

with posters. Big Daddy Cane Dominique Wilkins, things like that. Man, I grew up in a great neighborhood, like fifty kids playing basketball outside, tackle on the tackling on the grass, you know, football in the middle of the street, and um My Popster just didn't play, man, you know what I mean. He used to used to beat me down like if I was if I was wrong. You know, when I was younger and coming up, everybody in the neighborhood had respect for him. Dog dealers, hoopers, everybody, you

know what I mean. And I get to eighth grade, ninth grade, I want to go play at this high school, Southwest, coldest killers ever went to Southwestern Anderson Hunt all these other players. It's a funny story. Get me back on in a minute. So, man, one day, I'm about thirty years on, I'm hooping walking the ball. Used to call it between your legs, and this dude come on with some beat up George beat up Jorgs and he's like, what's something, Like what's up? Man, He's like, yeah, Michael

Jordan Cousin. I'm like, you ain't Michael Jordan Cousin with them shoes. Sean Leonard was moving in on the corner of the street. So this is like thirteen. So but Sean Lennard's here, you know what I'm saying, Like I'm around basketball Graates, you know what I mean. So Sean Lenard, Jayden Rose, Howard, Eisley, uh Quincy Bondes, a couple of other my brothers went to Southwest. So this is the high school I want to go to Stack Like Damet won the championship at seven or they had tried seven

times and win the championship. Everybody else had been winning. You know, we want to Detroit to win. So I wanted to go to Southwestern Man and my AU coach came told us it was a test for the school. Mom's like, oh yeah, it's the test is free education over there, you know, take a test to go to school. And uh, I get in the split the whole AU team, half of us getting the half go half dog, and uh it was it was. It was tough because I

wanted to go to Southwestern. I was from Detroit. At that moment, the story start being he not from Detroit going out here and not at thirteen years old. This is the biggest thing in the world. It ain't nothing else you could say to me. And it ain't nothing else you can say to me that that would hurt me, except I'm not from you, you know what I'm saying. So then they knew what to say at this time.

So I'm I'm thirteen, I'm playing this. But the whole time, you know, looking back, it was a wonderful time, a long time. But it was like, Okay, I realized that that point would it meant to go to work in the darkness, like shut up, let them say what they're gonna say. I can't be like I am I am, I am that that ship don't mean nothing. You know what you're gonna do once you know, had that confrontation. So um at that time, I go this little high school and my pops, you know, you had a real

good talk with me. So the first year I tried to flunk out. Yeah, I tried to flunk out with my mom. She was I finally finally accepted. And we had like four cats from my AU team go the country day with Mi Yapo, Cab darl and so were blessed. We want Class C championship. So now I'm talking in the paper like no other team is gone from Class UP and one you know, we got five hundred kids.

I'm like, we're going to Class B. We win that championship, and then I'm like, let's go to Class A when we'll be playing against J everybody else and they don't let us do it. And that was really like my high school, man, Like just it was I wanted to go to this one high school and play there. I go to this other school. I got to wear a suit in the tie. I don't understand why my father is listening to this woman about sports. You know what

I'm saying, this this my mom. She don't even like sports, mom as you listen to it about what school to go to. And I thank them every day, man, because my popsy wan't my friend, you know what I mean. I ain't talked to him that year, like a whole year the stack, I ain't talking the whole school year. I wouldn't talk to me being the car like you know what I mean, Like you you know what I mean, you're my son, Like you're gonna do what I say, you know? And uh, it's just the biggest blessing of

my life. Man, Like I'm a friends there for life. I realized, you know, certain stereotypes wasn't true about myself about other people. I've never been scared of nobody since them moments. You know you're going to kids and their dad your billionaire. You see, he unhappy at home. I don't want what you have, right, I'm happy with what I have. I do want some stuff though, I want the pool and stuff you got, but I don't want

what you're having. So it was just a good lesson, man, but you know, making it shorter than it than it was, but it was. High school was the best and the worst thing at the same time for me. M mmmmm. When did you start receiving obviously you were able to win three championships, when did you start receiving that recognition as you end up being Mr Mr Basketball? But kind of on the map, whether just eighth grade, ninth grade, tenth grade. When when did you feel like you were

on the map? For whom I felt like I was on the map? Probably when I went to like a night snore and you turning with something I played against, like Grant when I played against Grant Hill, Jamal Mashburn, something I've never seen before. He's the same size in the NBA as he was in name grade. You know what I mean, Hill, We've handled yeahs mash Org Hill. I said, what when were you talking about? Though? I was talking about Mashburn. He's the same height as he

was there, Mashburn. Um he was cold, Sean Bradley. I'll see what happened to him. He was out there, so um yeah, prayers are for him. But all all those dudes were cold the time. But it's a funny story. So I go to this little school. This this this, this the best story. I gotta think. I go this little school and uh, little kids, and I'm in seventh grade and I'm like six three, six five or something, and I get like sixty three points in the game.

I don't know nothing about basketball. I've just been whooping in the backyard. So it's hard to whoop in the backyard, you know what I'm saying. So in this game, I do this, and they called the news out the next day and and I go on the news and I've never been on TV or nothing before. I don't know what it is. I'm looking at the Floorida like, what college you want to go to? I'm like, Michigan State, this Magic Johnson. So at twelve years old, I remember

that night coming on. I remember how the next day was different, you know what I'm saying. I remember family member came over and speaking to me and they say nothing to the to my brother's and then like you know, I just just just people, little stuff. And that practice led to me on the super Friends shout out to super Friends. That's the single camera shout out to the super Friends, the AU team back in the day. And so that got me to play with Jalen and them.

And if I never would have did that interview, my father never would have tried to put me in basketball because he didn't even know I was hooping, you know what I'm saying. So you know, I think that's really to put me on the map in Michigan and say, you know, this kid could be all right. It gave me something to have expectations. I don't even know where I was at that time. Cheers, They snuck our little drinking.

It is the first time I'm unable to have a drink. Yeah, you know, Jack Jack converted now, so I understand much respect one one time. Yes, it's been a years and not to drink, man, I'm not I believe it. One of the schools you took as serious candidates besides Michigan. When you say you started Michigan State, right, So I'm just good. Yes, we get the buck. Yeah, I'm bringing on when it comes. So Michigan State. I was at

Michigan State. I was. I was in Michigan State, locked in, locked in coaches up to this day is one of you know, I got love for coaches. So I don't know him and I got love. Check this story out. So so I go. So I'm going to Michigan State. They got me. Now we could talk about a whole bunch of other things because your wan recruited. We been getting that. But Michigan State have me this early. I'm gonna sign late, go to a football So I go to Minnesota. My five visits of Minnesota because it's a

black coach. Um, you would d because it's a black coach. And I want Detroit to know this is a place where all the young boys should come and it's it's a good place, dude, Michigan, Michigan State. So I'm at Michigan State. I'm telling him there sean rush, but he all time they score that I'm at Michigan State. That's the best visit. Magic and told me to come there. You know, I don't even know Magic ment A one time and he told me to come down coming. And

so I go to Minnesota for a visit. Now Minnesota takes me on to a football game, and I'm thinking, like, y'all don't even know how to recruit. Why would you bring somebody that goes to Michigan football games to Minnesota? Y'all? Teams, sorry, y'are playing this whack as arena. Ain't nobody here like this is a hundred thousands, Like, don't do that? Take me somewhere, you know what I mean? Don't. So anyway, I go to games. On the way out, they're playing

Michigan State. So on the way out, I'm just, you know, a little kid. I'm following the coach, and the coach takes me and I shake hands with somebody to sweet. Promise you if this is the sweet, like just the door to the sweet. I didn't step past this, So shake hand. Boom right anything cool again? Home? The n C A a call, like what y'all? So they called my coach and they know not to call me on

my pops because it's been bullshit the whole time. So they said well, the fok, the athletic director of Michigan State, took a picture of you shaking the hand through a coke bottle. I was like, this can't be true. Coach is a car was like that's all he said. That's all he said, and he cried on the phone. It was over. That was a violation for the hand you shook. It don't even matter. Michigan State took the picture. You see what I'm saying, y'all ain't gonna force me. You're

gonna force me to come? What you what you think that's gonna do. I think it's gonna make me come with you. You don't know enough about me, because I'll be on fire and be like if you put me out, I put myself back on fire and funk you up and then be like I'll handle I just got issues like that, right, So they did that. My father he already knew because he allowed me to pick where I was going, and it was just like, damn, I can't go to Michigan State. So it was because I went

to a game in Minnesota. Michigan State told that I shook someone's hand, and like judge, judge, he cold before he passed me talked about it. You know, it is in his book, is all. We talked about it. But that's that's a really big reason why I didn't go to Michigan. You know what I'm saying. But Michigan was sorry to years before. They were terrible. They were good at eighty nine. We're talking ninety one. Now they weren't good. As one had been recruit Me and Juan had been

cool since tim grade. Me and Jalen wanted to go to the same high school. So Juwan just kept recruiting as like, dog, I'm telling you this team, sorry, we could be good, man, we could get time, we could play with me. Can you can switch everything? That's all? He did the best job. He's like, you can switch everything? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, Duke Man, that was Duke might have been my best visit, y'all. Really, dude, I know, I'm about to tell you why. Because grand Hill, Because grand

Hill knew me. So grand Hill was like first they said they had no conditioning, no conditioning. I watched their practice in college. Everybody had conditions. They played like NBA style. They never got on the track. Then I went to one of the classes whatever. That was cool. But then Christian later him and grad said, man, if you come here, we know you you really donna want to go to school here. I said, what it was like, you know, you can take classes or whatever down the street at

the Black College. They said, they took me to the college. They took me up there and it was man, it was like, you know, I'm old schools. It was like doing the ship like it was live. Man, I wanted to I'm talking about. Man, that was the best visit because it was a college right down the street. We had a good time. They were partying, like on the Monday. Like I was like this, you know, other colleges the other recruitse tried to yeah, not take you out, and

they took you out to the best. But you can see that they really had a relationship with the Black College. Everybody like what up? And there was parties and stuff like that. And then just one more so my you would d visit. So I go on the trip, your d n um stay in the hotel downtown. It's just the regular hotel to Poncho train, you know, and I'm with KIV. Had to talk and blind drills. He was doing it. That's what I was talking about that. Uh, so I hear this so Church Brooke Birds rest in peace.

He was a coach uh Northwestern and uh I go on this visit and it's just a regular trip. It's like, hey, here's the city and all that. It's just funny. He's like, man, thank you for coming. Man, I know you're not gonna come here, and thank you for coming to use this. He like, you stay at the hotel, you know your friends, you know, y'all could eat what you want the foods there and that's that was it. So I bring my

friends up to the hotel. We're hanging out and know all I kept hearing is I'm like something that's just base coming from next door. Then kem go outside and we're just hoping somebody walk out or something. And somebody walk out. It's Luke Skywalker Warren Sap and I'm talking about this is like ninety three and just it was like I was wondering, did you indeed playing this? Because if they did, it was it was it was the job. Yeah, I've never seen anything like it. I never seen it

was a live concert in Luke's room. You know what I'm saying, Like, I I just I just never seen nothing, and I remember thinking like my mom and it was like, how was your trip? Baby? How was this? I was like, yeah, it was good. You know, I don't think they never heard it to them and I can't even tell it like I want. But so those were the schools that

you know that I looked at. So you end up in Michigan with the number one recruiting class, a lot of hype around your your team, but off not not necessary, off the core, but outside of playing. The style, the swag, the fashion, the cultural shift you guys brought to the game is something that will never to me. It can't be duplicated because, like I said, there's everything from here on out to me after it's kind of low key biting.

So where did those thoughts and in ideas and how were you guys able to actually make it come to fruition? I mean, black socks, black shoes, baggy shorts, like that wasn't the style or that wasn't status quo, and you guys turned that all around the black bark co right. I had to get them. That was the first real pair of shoe, like expensive pair of shoes my mom ever bought me. And I wasn't bitches until my sock came out the bottom of What year was that, ninety four? Yeah,

I was like junior high. Shout out to Jalen Rose too, Juwan Howard Ray Jackson, Jimmy King. Yeah, the Texas the textab boy was crazy, but I was having the ray to day. I mean, y'all, y'all, y'all really think different man, y'all, y'all, I love it, y'all think different man. Hey, that's the first one I called him too, you know what I mean. But it's just a blessing dog. All it was was everybody brought their ship with him from where they came.

That's that's all it was. Joan Jowane shouldn't be alive, man, he was where he is Chicago. He should not be alive. Dog. That's why you see him smiling and so happy, and that's why you see hm about the killer coach. You know what I mean. He should not be here, you know what I mean? Those games were small to us, No,

you know, no, not putting no ship on nothing. You know, the first a game I go to a point guard trip, you taking a point guard got killed the week before, you know, so we we we were in this state of mind, like can't reach eighteen. Nobody liked Detroit, c Ia put coke in Detroit. You know, all this stuff that you're thinking, man, and so being able to have someone like Jalen that I knew it was crazy serious because we knew that we already had to fight a

narrative in Detroit. Ray and Jimmy coming from Texas they already felt the same way, and Juan from Chicago. So really, I remember the first time we all met each other. It was right in front of the dorms. I'd already met Jimmy because McDonald's and Juan and Jimmy, but with

Ray and we started playing basketball. I went up to the seventh floor, turned the music on, and that's that's like the first and the last thing I remember, you know what I mean, whether it's the time out, whether it's winning, whether it's this, whether it's somebody on that first because it was real like like like like how it's crazy to be sitting there with you after you know, as you know, I was saying, like it's really you can't even put in the words since seen really is.

So when we're on there, we wearing long shorts. Is because we had cut off shorts, and when I grew up, you couldn't wear one tight because I mean, you ain't have money. If I could see your socks and you was high water, it wasn't because it was your style. Because that's all happened, right. So we grew up with all these little things and we was like, you know, we're wearing baggy shorts or you know Ray, Ray did

the socks. He was in Texas, and the true story is Ray was pissed because he wasn't getting a lot of playing time. Yeah, Ray, you know, I been thinking about transferring and he came in with some Texas boys about to play rice. And you know how this when you go into somebody else town, you're gonna show your ass for them. And so Ray bring these black socks in and we're like, what's that. He like, I'm wearing these,

and I was like, you ain't wearing them. I'm wearing Then we got to go back to the law, homeboy, and it's raised I did. We all we all were the black socks. And what was so one thing that was dope about the coach. Fisher pulled me to the side after we wanted and he was like you know, yeall like the black Shots were like yeah, we like the black Shots were, don'na keep wearing them. He was like, that's cool, except the only thing is only y'all five

should win? What should everybody win? Right? Question? Coach? You you're right man? And that was like another moment of the second year, bringing us all together was like you're right, you know, because we were wrong about that. I mean, I'm glad we did it that way truthfully to make a statement like the world don't love us, but come on, y'all,

you know we can't keep this to ourselves. Family. So those those brothers, man, I was you know, thous were some of the realist that moment, that team, the Pistons team the end of my career, you know, our relationship and others in Sac. You know, those are the moments that I cherished, those kind of crazy memories that had

nothing to do with being on the floor. Actual who you guys did you know accomplished so much in in such a short amount of time, you know, with all the accolades, big games, losses, Like you said, the time out is the one thing you take is at that moment right there, is that the one when you say, when you look back Chris Webber, Michigan, the five five, what's the one thing that you hang your hat out and stands out to you that it's just that that

sums up that moment. Damn man, that was a lot. Yeah, that was a lot. Yeah, I know, I don't think I could pick one. Yeah, that was a lot. I don't think I could. But you're putting a lot. You're putting with a loaded quuture. Yeah, it's a lot of music, personal situation. You're putting music. You're putting the whole culture just on y'all backs at that time, you know what

I mean. Like, that was a lot, and it was to me, like I said, it was a smaller It was a two year window to be real with you, you know what I mean, because he was too and done so to affect to have a lifelong effect on culture as a whole when it pertains to basketball, you know what I mean. To have one of the greatest young teams in the history of the game. Um, unfortunately felt short two years in a row. But like I said, you guys did so much for the game and for culture.

That's what was Is there any one thing that sticks out there is just that whole moment is what it is. I think it's the whole moment, man, because it's so many things you do now, Like the players are looking rob and with two tattoos and be like tattoos, but they don't realize that day it was like having a tattoo, you know what I mean. So it was the small things like at that time, man, I felt like the world was changed, like even with little things like um

and Living Color was on TV. What I'm saying, little things like that. So I definitely want to take the credit. And we did it, but it was the energy of everybody at that time. Black people was coming up. He wasn't taking it no more. We saw all these other expressions, all these other things, Like I remember we won the game and we jumped on the scores table and did hip hop and ran had the whole crowd doing it. Right. I'm just doing it because I love hip hop and

I want to feel like around. I want to I want to know how y'all do it. And I remember the criticism they came after, you know what I mean, Like when I really think about it, man, dog, I was eighteen getting death threats, Dog, You know what I mean, I'm talking hand for having fun though you ain't letting these five black guys what these niggers up here doing like I'm talking about like it was crazy, you know,

to the point where I'm worried. And now I got my voice from the coming sitting by my parents again, it's you know what I mean now, but it's a different time the web. Two. Not to cut you off because it's common now because social media, any coward has a voice, But back then they had to like, really, somehow get that ship. This is the early nineties, so it had to be like a handwritten letter. There was more, there was more hate behind it. Yeah yeah, and it

makes you too, you know at that time. Now these are all good things because you can't have courage without fear. So so I'm not gonna act like nobody was a scar these times. But I really have to think our parents because your question, it's like, what what got it was? We were built for the hell I'm gonna cry about this. My father came from you know what I like, it's builtful, you know what I mean. My mother she like when I went to Dukes, she like, um, yeah, you like that.

You like architecture, right, so you like the architecture, like, yeah, she's like a black man designed all of the himn't getting no, you know, I mean like they are. We're ready for it, you know what I mean. That's why it doesn't surprise me j or TV now, it doesn't surprise me other things. So you know, I can't take

one moment, I just take all of us. It did a lot for us, man, because growing up, we like, we watched y'all when we watched the Baby, because we felt like we were y'all, like these are five guys that's the best from the bottom, that's the best confidence and and and they're supporting each other. And another thing we talked about Big three. You can never duplicate the Fab five. We're talking about Big three right now they're talking about Big three teams. Why ain't nobody talking about

the Fab five Because you can't duplicate that. It was y'all was meant to be the cornerstone and the culture at that time. Bro, you know what I mean, we appreciate it because it didn't a lot for us. I appreciate the fact you said that you saw yourself on us. I promise you that's why I used to be like at the game, I used had tears in my eyes.

Our mom is watching the game, or you know, even commentating, like some of the reason and some of the ways I commentates on purpose because I know what they said about we cut our hair. We cut our hair. Dog. It's like my father always, you know, my father, my father. People think Joan, my father's Joan. There. My father looked like Mohammed and I led him Will Smith like all that he had the same army haircut and and we're like,

we're gonna make you cut your hair, pretty boy. You know we go to the final four, you gotta cut his hair. Ball all of us cut out hair. And I remember the game. You know, my mother she just said, you know, I was messed up. You know they said y'all look like dougs. But she wanted me to hear that. And he's like, oh, you you want to see you want to see what this is on the court. And that's really show I asked today. So we were built

for and we had a lot of people. So many people support us, man and give us that energy because it was a lot to carry. Maybe maybe not, you really don't remember, but I remember the love, especially for your age, though, that's a lot to have on your shoulders. I got the pictures my whole team six State championship old team hand because y'all did it. Yeah. Yeah, So

obviously there's been talks. And since I feel like you're my big brother, I'm gonna go ahead and ask you that at the thirty thirty dot came out you weren't involved in it. Where did the Fab five situation gone wrong? And is it right it today? Yeah? So I don't think the fab fire situation ever went wrong? Okay, you know, like I said, I mean I talked to Time, right, so I don't know outside looking in. Yeah, I talked

to Catch too much. You know, if if they if this was a lot, they'd be trying to text nine tuk up the interview. But I would say that, I would say that the deterioration of me and j Rose relationship could probably have an effect on every you know what I'm saying, and so I've always tried to be careful, but you're my brother, and this we're just gonna do it. I've tried to be careful of how to talk about my relationship because you don't understand I'm I'm the oldest

of five. So my mother taught me a couple of things. If I'm fighting my brother in the street and the stranger try to break us up, beat the a and get back to fighting at like, how do you How the hell are you getting an offer? You know what I mean? When we love each other, we fight, So that's one thing. And then just it's not fair to say my side without someone they're saying that side. And I feel like the whole time it has been a

negative coming at me. Like I felt like, damn at all people that hate me and all the white people all listen all that that's been trying to get me for years. You you you yeah, that ship hurt me to my court. Dog. I'm holding in tears right now, right but I'm not perfect. I'm not saying that. So this ain't no sides or nothing. It's just someone my brother's show telling you what happened. So with that, and I'm I'm a big brother, so I know how to get out the way. Matter of fact, I get out

the way too much. So I just want people at the end of the day that the brothers to remember they don't love us. That's all. That's all I know. They don't love me, and you can be a good man knowing they don't love you know, my mother used to have a saying, you know, who are they to be equal to whatever that whatever that means a basketball player for forty years, just a businessman, who was he to be equal to? You know? We you know, you know,

so you know I was, you know, I was. I think that me being like damn, you know what I mean, like things said you called time out on purpose things and it said like you lied in court like that? Would that would hurt any real one with knowing that you righteous, with knowing that you don't do nothing to especially to your brother in that form we like you said, we're not perfect, but in that form to initially hurt

you as a brother, that showed her brow. And it's this song, uh stars, this is this is those songs, an old song in the seventies. I think in this Jian Jan this I don't know a name, but janis jopling Jane's iron. It's not jobbing. I know what we're talking about. I'm probably chopping this girl name. But she says, uh, how do you make amends without defending? Like if I say to you, you know, stock Man, you ain't never you don't you ever come back and come to the

point you address it. At some point You're gonna have to be like, hey, dog, you know what happened, right, you know what I'm saying, And I don't. I don't. I don't want to do that because I'm working on I've been working on forgetting this dog, because I want God to forgive me, you know what I mean. Like when it talks about forget sometimes sometimes like it just click with me. It ain't forget that many times. It's that might take that might that might be how many

times you gotta forgive? You know what I mean? Because I could be late again today, like you have to forgive me again. You have to forgive me again, you know. And I want out forgive me. I want to forgive this for my brothers. I want you know and so but what I've learned is I can forgive you without fucking with you. I love you from a distance and I would tell you this. We're brothers, and I know it'll it'll I know you know again we're brothers, so

you know, but I've never said nothing about it. And I'm just like you got the biggest media company in the world. Yo, biggest doc ever. I hope you're on the story. I hope you're on that because but but but that's to see me being laid back, trying to be cool and not saying nothing. That's God also saying like, Okay, you better quit running from confrontation and tell your story because you got a sun coming up. You're gonna let

him think. That's what this. That's why I got the book and adopt and I'm gonna inspire some mother for kids because I'm gonna really show you what it's like. Like I'm not embarrassed to what my father came from. You. I wouldn't beat me without him right now to let him know like this this let's go. You know my mother too. So if that inspire somebody else through the pain I already had, now it's it's a lot of pain,

but it's you already had it. It ain't like you know what I mean, So you might as well do something with it, you know, from it, you know what I mean? So Yeah, I can't wait to like, you know, tell a couple of stories and things like that. Yeah, And we've been working on it for like dog, we're working on this for like eight years. Man, the book is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I won't let nobody else write it. I got two

great researchers. How I started writing the book, I had a stenographer coming to the house in Malibu sign a n D A Rotes and um spit, just emotional vomit. Then I would look and be like, oh my god, now let me go back and research. Then we would have a dot and we're going to now while Peters doing the dot. Okay, can I interview you after? Okay?

Because it wasn't like I have to do it by myself, because I could follow this and so you know, uh, you know, it's the toughest thing and and the best thing I've ever done, because you've got to own up as a man too again and ain't just oh this guy, this guy, I'm I'm more at far than anyone in this world. That's the way I started every problem, starting to things right here. Once you can be real with

yourself and what people do. Understand when you're forgiving somebody, it's not for them, so you can let go and move on. I don't know, I might not be involved with you, but I mean I might not hate you and be around you, but I just know how to move on without you. And it's that simp and I love you from afar like doing. But the deeper thing than that is being able to forgive yourself, because like

you said, we're not perfect, and that's the motherfucker. Forgiving yourself is a like to me because I'm doing a dot too, and I'm seeing a bunch of amazing mom getting chills talking about us, seeing a bunch of amazing memories photos of my mom when she was alive, her talking on the news for the ship happened to me,

and just seeing all kinds of ship. But then thinking back on my past, like all the mishaps that have happened, like finding my part in it, and obviously it wasn't just me, but I played a part in it, and being able to forgive my part in the situation helps you forgive somebody else, because it's everything starts here, everything

everything starts here. So to be able to forgive yourself, that's what I wanted now seeing how you kind of laid it out, how dope is it kind of like coming across that you forgot or seeing like great parts of your life, Like, damn, I forgot about that. You know, it's fun up about basketball sports. We've talked to let that ship go. Now, that's that's good. Everything has a flipped corn. Yeah, forty to night and let that ship

you got in the game tomorrow. She but let it go, okay, because you know, when we could, we could keep being like all you know, got to the sweet six team, I can't celebrate. You got one night to celebrate, and I always say one night to sing. And so with that, I put a lot of memories in the back appreciate, not appreciating it, living in the moment, and truthfully, I wasn't appreciate it. But it was not not trying to

appreciate it. It was I gotta keep living to get to a moment to collect these memories, to sit down and say thank you God, I appreciate It's like I gotta keep going, like because the minute I sit and appreciate it, you're gonna lose anything. It's gonna you know what I'm saying. But but that's that's fear that you know we have. We have talked that about, you know, all that good stuff. So that's what I told you

at the beginning. It's just been good, this ship. Being thankful dog Like, remember how crazy and all that you were like in high school? I think what was my mind like with the fire fire college high school? It was I was just thankful, man, grateful, like I have signed up for this everything. We've been through a few team and I'm like, what, that's it as hard as like, you know what I'm saying. So I just try to keep that focus because when you're grateful, yeah, more patience.

You know, you're a little bit wise and you're more aware. You know, for me, you comment down a little bit. So yeah, man, that's that's it's been good. I appreciate you. Like I said, you don't talk, but like I said, me knowing you and seeing all this ship, I'm like, that's nah nah nah. But the world thinks what they see and it hurt though, Matt, because a lot of times you just gotta keep living. Yeah, you know what I mean. But it's hard to just keep living and

knowing this ship out there about you. Yeah, what about when somebody comes to you and be like, yeah, such a such he said, Now you don't even know you're marked off forever, even when we get back or whatever, because you know, so why we had college. Let me throw a name out that to you though, because y'all got a chance to play against somebody who raised me in the tournament. J Tyler remember that name. Yeah, I remember that. I remember as a kid man watching y'all

play them. He was always always looking up to the Fat five. But y'all got a chance to play Texas in the tournament v. J Tyler point guard and take remember that dark skinning fast exactly. I'm like I was drafted around saying because he actually was left Philadelphia before y'all got traded there. Yeah, but he raised me, and I remember that's another moment in my life for thinking about him putting a chance to plaguage you'll in the time.

It was a big moment bro By City. I hope we put it on d But you know, it's crazy when you say little ship like that. Like I said, there's so many moments for other people that they created just being them, like not even realizing like what the long term effect, or this is a big deal playing the Fast five, or I went up against Webb and blocked the shot, or he don't you know. I mean, like there's little moments like that obviously with all of us, but you know, the had of the career he had

and and and be so impactful. It's it's like you leave a lasting impression on everyone you come in contact with, and only obviously there's gonna be some hate that comes with that, but there's a lot of admiration and love that come with it too. And unfortunately, I think it's a society we focus on the negativity too much and that's what gets most of the energy instead of just kind of really realizing, like like you said, thanking God

for all this amazing ship right here. This allowed me to live the life I'm living after basketball and do what I want after basketball and raise a family and all this kind of ship. And I think too often like we don't get a chance to sit back and celebrate the great things we've been through and the joyous most we've been through, because it's always what's next show. I want to be on your on your sun shows. You know what I'm saying. His sons came up in

my wedding and stole the show. Ned in the pool. Yeah I'm dancing. I'm dancing on my wedding song and the floor. But everybody say, oh, not him and his wife. Literally the they were dancing and the twins come they were babies, babies. I'm crawling out on the floor. I don't know how they both got free at the same time.

But yeah, yeah, but see stuff like that, I'm an breaking neighbor wedding and just that's when that's like, this is who you're marry, you know what I mean, embarrassing in your pool, pete in your pool, everything, And you know, like I realized, like I'm definitely an introvert at times, and you know, we don't you know, what we do. So it ain't like I'm you know, a man scientists.

But at the same time, I'm not in there being an introvert like, oh I don't want It's not that it's if it's any love or somebody, I know, come on, let's let's get up. I just I just don't like flying. Well.

You know what's weird is I had two experiences obviously one with you and you obvious, see I was you were in my life and still in my life, but seeing how you are as a person and how the world portrayed you, and then seeing how Kobe is as a person and seeing how the world portrays him, and I remember one time on the bus with Kobe, I'm like, yeah, why don't you show the world this motherfucker is Like what you mean, it's like who you really are, just

like I can't show the motherfucker you know, motherfucker's this, you know what I mean. And the same thing with you, like I said, one of your greatest things, but also you know your ability to kind of just I'll just get out the way, you know what I mean, I'll remove myself instead of being like, no, funk it, it didn't happen like that, you know what I mean. But he got me thinking like no, I know where, but I know the story that ship didn't happen like that.

But it's just like if well, I'm not gonna say nothing, I'm listen and keep smoking, you know what I mean. But like you said it, to know how dope you are as a human and everything you've touched and how giving you are and all this kind of stuff, it as a friend of yours and kind of like a little brother, like it just naturally bothers me when ship floats out you that's negative and it's not true, but that keeps me living that keeps me living. Knowing y'all man,

I ain't gonna lie. That's why I'm cool. You please people like that watching y'all show seeing because y'all defining it and breaking it. Like the worst, the worst time with my basketball life, Dog, wasn't the time that was with you in Philadelphia. I was. I was telling you before before the man that Philly round was tough to talk about you, Dog, Like, I get inspired because we

all do things. But you're making it where you're from, You're doing this, You're going through what you're going through now. I'm never going through nothing like that, talking about being lonely working with the court system. So I'm praying for you. I've cried for you, you know what I mean. Like, so we that strength I'm telling you, like I take I take it from y'all. I still all good energy. I swear to y'all like, how y'all doing this? I'm like, okay, yeah,

what you gonna do with you? Know what I'm saying? So that inspired? But my we in Philly, man, and I don't even know if I really don't even know if you if you're really really I don't even know if you really understand that it's the worst time in my life. I get traded Sacramento. This was funny. I had a no trade clause. I'm gonna tell you I'm stuck. That's what I'm telling you. Like I don't like like Michigan State taking the picture. I'm not gonna come with me.

So after all these years, I signed back with sacrament I want to be there. I could have been traded to the Lakers, could have gone this one. David Robinson had his back hurt, and there's gonna put Dave and have me start with him. This is what I was told. Pap was my assistant. Uh and going to State my rookie year. Yeah, we're in Dallas and we used to just we pumped like Dallas. We we only we wanted the Lakers, like we didn't even take that serious. They

were great, but they weren't even close to them. Someone Dallas like the phone call from Jeff Peach and he's like, hey, Chris, Like, hey, no, GM has ever called me on my phone before at the beginning of a road trip to they let us pack for a long after here too. Remever, I forgot that. I forgot that. So I'll never forget because it's one of my favorite hotels. Um, yeah, man, we didn't move. Yeah,

we didn't do the roof off that hotel. That was much weed as we didn't smoke it there that the Crescent and like Chris and this slick high put it on me. He goes fil definitily, really just really trying to trade for you. I said, what y'all said? He's like, well, you know we're interested whatever. I said, So, let me get this straight. You're the gym. You're calling me the

guy that you beg to come here. And because I have a trade clause, you didn't call my agent because you know I get emotional and you you know who I am. He said yeah, I said, so you think I want to come back? Said no, I said, funk. Y'all hung up the phone, called Ai I'm talking about. I don't even know how I got his number. I don't even I don't even know. It had to be within five minutes. It had to literally be in five minutes.

Made my agent or somebody called. It was like yeah, it's mom gonna cook for you this and that, and I was like I'm gone, Like it wouldn't even know other conversation. I was so hurt. If I had to do it all over again, I probably have said nine N I would have said, you know what, No, I'm good. But because I and what was so dope? Man? This was so dope. Bobby Jackson Vibby came in the room. We prayed, you know what I mean. Then I went out just drinks, not just and it was to me

and magg get traded. We're in the hotel. The game is in three days against Sacramento. We get traded the Philadelphia Sacramento comes in places we were. Yeah, we were supposed to go. That was part of our road trip, was going to go to Philly on this road trip we had packed for so Dallas was just the first stop and we were there and I'm telling you, man, the Philly organization, actually there's some really good people because they still send me things like I've been there. I

love them. That was the worst time ever. You practice in the college. You have to pay for park and pay to have your clothes. Wich's not things. You got it. But you're just like this is this is a team. Yeah, the team is so bad. I'm like, yeah, you've been doing this though, you know how now it's rest management. He got them. Hey, I call it half a head. He got them running. Uh yeah, he got them running sprints.

Uh shoot around, Hey, Andre Iguardala lou Will. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, the NBA is not like this, y'all. It's it's terrible. I remember one practice, a coach tells Matt, Matt shoots a brick. Coach teller, Matt, don't you ever shoot the ball again? My line's cheeks cheeks, but go ahead and tell a story. But he said, don't you haven't shoot the ball again. And we're just like, no, that ain't cool. Man. Like everybody on this team, we were a card, like you shoot it. So when I

had hired your shooting, come ever. But I wasn't playing like I was, and Webb kept me off the edge like I'm fine, I'm gonna play football basketball. I'm done. And he was the one that was inspired me. And man, you've got so many years ahead. E this isn't that. But go ahead, so he gets to shoot. Coach, you do all this, so make a long story short. Matt get traded. I mean mag get traded. I forgot who you want the Golden State, remember the Golden Staff and

we're cheering for you. On the side, I'm cheering for, like, don't shooting that walk up three? Don't shooting that walk up three? How many three? Shoot? It was? It a record was talking the whole time and I hit I hit for like remember, and then drove up the sack after the game. He was having fun, but Mo Chief was talking the whole game and I ended up hitting

for like eight. I hit like six or seven threes, and it was so vindicating because of that situation, Like this dude told me and pray it was a practice. Now I was wide open. I just missed a shot, and I literally had hired his shooting coach because I wasn't playing, So I wasn't a type of moe for

this complaining. I was just working to hopefully get a shot, and he was so caught up and still trying to be cool and funny and not being a coach that like, I want to whip his I still don't funck Mo Cheeks to this day because of the his bit aasseness in philling is the reason why I think I belonged

in the Hall of Fame. Out of here. That was a tough time, man, Like I said, because what when we're gonna get to what you did in Sacramento, I guess, but it's that was just, Uh, that's like when we became family, you know what I mean, Like we're stuck in the in the phoenix, ho for the phoenix. That's definitely when I became your family because I love you him a young boy. I didn't know he was gonna get traded, and that was the worst season. I think I more than to have a drinker. I want to

leave the league, you know what I mean. I told me I wasn't even know happy drinking. It was. I got the facts them all and it was crazy about all that is that the best time in my life? Dog. For the best times we had there, it was after we go to the game and your mom and my mom came in there and got drunk. Your mom and his mom two good times man. And uh it was right before you found out what she was doing. And we had some real talks like were you over there?

We're not thinking of you when she's telling me about your childhood and telling me how she loved you and telling me you funny and hard head. And I was asking that did you get in trouble when he was a little she'd be like, yeah, he's mischievous. She told me about one party this dude had where she was like, I don't know. She told me about what your papa did, but you were charging to get in the back yard and selling weed or something. And she was like, she

was like, I realized how much he made. And I was like, you ever think he to the least? She was like, I thought he played football. He was always a hard worker. But me and her had some Me and her had some wonderful times. Man, And that's why you're real because of your parents, you know what I mean, or the people that was with them to put it into it, but she she and our times there was the bright spot dog that. It was the same thing he caught a little bit at the we believe shi

right before she died. It was the same thing. He said, you speak about his mom and found of my mom. She initially breaks down because you meet very few people in your life what they instantly affect you, Like you know what I'm saying. She affected all of the stuff like that. I'm messing that. I wish i'd know you was younger. You know, I thought so much my mom had to come be the yard duty at my school. Like that's how much it was. Just that's just what

it was. But I could you imagine her too, raised in the black son, how strong she had to be right and know ithing we're adopted. She run understand on punk, you can't have kids like that. That's why I get strimmed from all that. Man, Just well, let's get back on track. Obviously, you did what you did at Michigan first picking the draft. You think you're going to play with shocking Orlando and you get traded for Penny. What's going through your head? I ain't never been to Callie.

What's going on in Callie? Tim Hardaway there, Oh he got to cross over Chris Mullin. It's pretty billy. Oh I was billy. Yeah yeah, I was everyone. No time to be you know, there was no time to think about it be sad. It was live. It was Detroit. I one. It's so crazy to ride. I was on.

I won three state championships, two in that arena and just called the timeline come off like the worst moment, you know, I go home and my mom dope story she has, uh just like two days I'm at home and um, you know down getting her food or cooking, getting spoiled. I love it whatever. And you know my father ain't saying that He's gonna let me, you know, get all my things. And so my mother comes in like um, she just lights and played the said time out.

She's like, yeah, I'm on my car. Was like, why would you do that? She was like what but with the devil back guy, I meant that for good, We're gonna inspire some people were about to start to stay blah blah blah. She you know, teaching mom could do it. Oh mom can do something. She said it off and Detroit on this my baby car time. I wish your baby do. Tell him it's gonna be okay, Like it

was just I would go speak it was. It was actually one of the best things ever to go give your pain to people and let them think they paid was nothing. You know what I mean. I know my paid for a minute to raise somebody's started just a thirty second yeah and so and made me feel good. So once I went home, you get down. You know a lot of people support you, Like I get a letter from President, you get a letter from like Jackie

you the Cursey her shoes. You know, people loving you, and it wasn't much hate or at least I couldn't feel like because it was no social media. And then you know, being down, and then thirty days later when they announced my name on the stage picked up. It was the most nervous. I remember trying to be cool and holding the piece out. My hand was shaking, and I just remember being like, man, gods, you're great, right, It's just just a couple of weeks ago, you know

what I mean? And I promise you never never since that moment on stage, had I ever thought about the time out like you you know what I mean? Just yeah, I really I really wouldn't. I really wouldn't change anything, you know what I mean. But that moment that was that was that was the moment getting drafted it. So I was more geeked about. You know, I had a party that night. Everybody. I don't know how everybody at the party had Golden States had that was dope about

the trade. The draft started. Seven wasn't those stories over? I don't know how they got all everybody had them on. Everybody had gonna say, that's that's the love. So what's your first taste of the band? Because we had a fucking blast out there. What was your first taste. It's a whole because people don't understand that she really been.

The Bay is a whole different world in itself. The Bay is that the band is the West coast Detroit to be the Bay is the West coast shout out to forty and I'm like, I to I get to I just the Bay short for the uh rapid foote SA give me like I was. I just jumped into I was. I was part of the community, you know what I'm saying. So it welcomed you though, because that's how we were, like we jumped right in and they loved that. Now I love Oakland to this day, the

Bay area and everything. So when I got to it was cool man. But we first practice Tim Hardaway tear his knee up. I had approtected me all this other stuff. So the year got started off slowly. But those were straight up the loudest fans that you know, Sacramento too, but that Bays. So you're in the league now, Um you had to his story or just something. That's one of the most amazing plays still to this day. When you went behind the back and dunked on Barkley, uh

your rookie year. Take us back to that, because like we gotta definitely make sure we edit that and get the full range, like what was going through. I mean, Barkley probably some when you looked up to one of my favorite players at the time, you went behind the back and dunked on At the time, I did, Dave, that was mad because I wanted the Barkley's bark is my favorite player. He came to my high school. I

met him. I was like when I saw him, you know, I don't know, the first NBA or professional sports player you see. When you see him, You're like, okay, you know I mean, I thought Barkley was like you signed them up? Yeah, yeah, I'm like, I'm like, all right, you know what I mean. So I'm needing me my favorite player. I tried to dunk on people every time Spree get the outlet. I used to love playing with guys. I hate playing with point guards that wouldn't throw it up,

you know what I mean. Spree would always throw it up, and my father, my father and all my boys up the game. So I flew everybody in because my father, you know, gonna be like, yeah, Barkley gonna get you tonight. That's all he kept saying, you know, putting it in my head, Barkley donna get you all my boys, So I don't even know. I used to always go behind the back, and Barkley told me he was trying to

file me because I couldn't shoot free throws. So when I went behind the back and I got him, the first thing I do is look up to my pop because I popsed my hero, you know what I mean? Like what now? Like who else you got for me to slay down here? You know? All my boys up there? He's oh, yeah, it was. It was yeah, man, that was. That was the best moment. And then Nike let us do a commercial freestyle. I mean we the commercial literally took fifteen minutes, you know what I'm saying. So, yeah,

I was, I was. That was a good moment. So you end up winning Rookie of the Year? Your your your rookie year. Um, tell me what transpired that offseason, because I don't know if I've ever heard of a Rookie of the Year winning Rookie of the Year. And then so I thought I called Tom. I didn't go to none of my agents meetings, you know what I mean. I was like, so part of the reason why I didn't go play with Shocking, Orlando, he tells me, is because so after I called the time out, I was like,

I got movie offers all this. I was like, I want nobody likeing me because I I'm about to go work out. So I didn't go to the where they're feeling blue chips, and every day after practice, Tenning was out there diamond blue chips. You know. Shock was like, man, I played with them. We was out there playing every day. You know, I went to got him so with So after that I wouldn't go do any interviews or I didn't interview agents. I just said whatever mom, Dad picked

the agent. So I knew they were gonna, you know, interview when they went with Duffy and um uh shooting. Yeah, yeah, they were definitely a good one, but they broke up. So then I went with Bill Strick and this man foul Shot and Farel Show never been an agent. He was just a c p A. It's a smart cat and get a book. He read it all so a rookie. They say, Man, what we're gonna do is you're gonna sign the largest contract ever but we're gonna get you

out after the first year. They said that it's a risk because if you get hurt, you have a whole guarantee because the option is yours is five years seventy five million at the time, you know, fifteen years seventy five million, so it's great guarantee. But you know we're really doing this so you can opt out. So I went Rookie of the Year after my contract. So I tell Shock all the time, thank you on him because I used to get it quietly. Just wait until Shock

re up. I could time my time and right out to him. So a little bit of the beef what don Nelson had with me is because he felt I had too much control over money because I could, I could who Rookie of the Year this year? Anthonyette was just imagine if they could sign a new deal and get Steph money after one year. That ain't right, you know what I mean. So anyway, that's what it was. I opted out my contract. So when I opted out of my contract, he went to the owners and said, listen,

it's this kid. I'm telling him him. You ain't supposed to be thinking like this. He's only thinking about the money. And you know, blah blah blah blah blah. And I wanted to go back to go and stay bad like my homies Mummy. I moved to where Molly lived because I wanted to follow everything he did. Spree. I mean, Billy O took me to buy my first car, Like I came home one time my life was out because I know I ain't know how to pay the bills. Billy had to show him. You know what I'm saying.

So these are my brothers. I want to be there. I only played for the fat I'm thinking everything is gonna be like this, and then you know it was just the smear campaign. You know. I know y'all know love Nellie cool because we all have different I have a similar ship. So Nellie he did a lot for me. As far as I didn't see the game the way he did. I didn't know what was gonna turn it today. And he allowed them the hand of the ball and

all that. But you know, when it comes to controlling things like that, he really he gets nervous and so he does things to fear do push people away. And so I told the owners. I told the owners, I was like, please, I want to play here. They was like no, and and then my my agent was like, man, quick, you know you're gonna sign someplace a one year deal now? And I was like okay, And my dumbass went to the worst team in the league to go play with Jawan.

Juana didn't even know I was coming. Yeah, I was just like, where do you want to get drafted to? I'm going on. So that's how I got. It happened. Man, I hadn't opted out. You signed a one year deal with with the Bullets, so no more in the NBA can you sign a long term deal with the out after the first because of what my lawyer did. And you can no longer sign a one year deal because I signed to one of year deals with Washington trying

to wait to get out. So you get to Washington, you got you one there, you got she there, you got strict there. She came the next year, the following year, right he was drafted. I mean that seems like a cool last team too. They should have covered together. Man. I loved chocolate. I loved it. I got into black art there. I got into politics somewhat there because it was the people you can just talk to. But yeah, it wasn't like you gotta be smart and I was

just people you talked to and figure it out. So I love d C. I was always on you know, out of as season is that is that why he wrote that about Howard home covering. You know, we had a great time with there, man, but they just didn't believe in as we were young. We were a young team, man, if they were the kep for together. We lost to that Bulls team and seventy two wins Bulls team in three games by seven points in the playoffs. In one game they had to hit it at the last shot.

Not that we're gonna be that good, but still that next year, yeah, they should the couples together. Yeah, touch on, because like I said, I think you guys have such a huge crossover your time with with with these music artists, you know, Big and Sees. I know you're close to

see still Naas just wins a Grammy. Talk to us about that crossover between sports and music, because you were right in the mix during your time when you guys know, I mean, we all come from the same place, so we're gonna have the same things in common, you know what I mean, And so growing up, you know, so I'm sixteen eighty nine and that's you got, you know, hip hops in this little bit of peak and so growing up, I remember me and Jay Rose used to

right rips and class and passing back to each other. Everybody want to hoop, want to be a rapping vice versa. After I left college, Cage g from Naughty by Nature, shout out to KG. He's crazy sports fan and we were just cool. I would just go to his house in New Jersey every summer. Man I go to his house in New Jersey, shot out to his parents' family. It would just let me stay there. He had a studio. I mean I could stay there for days and no one come bother you or bother you, you know what

I'm saying. And then that time I learned how to make beats like he had John Ay, that group John in the basement, and I mean just watching them, like just make beats or you know, other groups are l all these other groups that he had, So making beats that just let me, like after games and ship come back and wind down. And then it just takes you to where you meet a couple of people that you like minded. You know, you have real relationship with him

maybe you know, maybe they're hear some ships. So we now as it was just here's just somebody I admired from Afar. I love his rhymes. When we met, I was like, uh, you know, we're not gonna be cool because you know, you know, it's just not that type of party like going do your thing, I do mine. We became close and um, he was just hearing some beats and he was like, yo, put that on, you know what I mean? And for me it sounded cool.

I'm being calm about it, but at that time, I mean, it's still one of the biggest accomplishes of my life to have a you know song blunt ashes and then have um surviving the times on this other album. So for me, somebody to make beats and listen to music all the time, grew up in Detroit with music is that it was. It was just dope being a part of it. So take me back to the because you were at you were up on stage at the was it the Source Awards with the with the East Coast

West Coast Ship. That was a young ball head of you up there right with you and who else was up there was you. It's messed up too because I come on with Puffy and Safe right after should lay it down. So you want to be all the videos and I come on stack like I'm I come up, I'm wearing black, like I'm part of bad Boy. I'm like, I don't know nobody, you know what I mean. But it was dope that night because big and was sitting right here, and you know he would you know at

this time, passed back Chrystalal. It was just it was to me, it was it was the source of wars, right, source of wars, and it was right. It was like when Vince Carter was at the dunk contest, when Vince did the dunk in two thousand one, that's when it's like all the Woutane was sitting on one. Uh, all of the death Row was in the was in the middle. I mean, that's when death Row came out in the

cages with you know Lady of Yeah. That's when m C eight, That's when DJ Quick was looking right at m C eight the whole time he was rapping because gen ain't you like, it was just beef. I mean, Mob Deep was beefing with uh, both Thugs and harm at that time. And I'm a fan, so I'm in the back. I'm just I'm just watching kind of oh it's kind of guns falling on the floor. Everybody got on bulletpool. It was so crazy because I'm thinking, like,

who in the world at this happened? Like I didn't see one security guard, people doing the show, people just walking up, and it was the dopest show. I always go for my boys and be like, I don't know a hip hop show was dopening that? But yeah, he came out and that was the whole East Coast West Coast be Snoop, Snoop. Was hard for Snoop to do that there though, that was they Yeah, that ship was hard. I've been comed growing up West Coast. I'm strictly West Coast.

The only I didn't listen to J at the time. The only East Coast person I listened to was was I wasn't It wasn't Moutangan. It was big, you know what I mean. So to to see what the West Coast was taken out, that was like, oh ship And then all of a sudden you look back in the old film, was like, oh ship, that's web right there where they look like being in thanks That's what I was gimming from the East coast. Yeah, so from Washington. Uh,

you get traded from MS Richmond. UM. Take us through that process of you know, feeling like again you you wanted to be somewhere. You wish they would have kept you together. You're starting to learn the business of basketball. Your shipped off the Sacramento I found out at the store. It was during the playoffs. I didn't even know you could be shipped off during the playoffs. They didn't call my agent and didn't uh didn't tell us it was it was they were trying to punish me and send

me away to like purgatory. That's what I felt at the time. Sack was the only place in the league I had ever been where the coach let you drive to the game and drive home, you know what I mean. Like everything. It was like, no, we're trying to get out of there as fast as you not because of the people, but because of the basketball environment. Like you don't know a lot about it. It's not much history, and so I didn't want to go to Sack. I thought it was the worst thing. I was questioning God.

And then you know, it's good when you had good people in your life, but it's messed up too, because my mom she's just not oh yeah, this must be the place guy got for you, baby, for everybody. She was just so like mine, you don't know who didn't even argue about the same thing. But high school though,

she always right, you know. So I'm on the plane, man, it's just a little lady next to me, and I'm over I'm looking out the window and all I see these fields and that's why I just thought, I'm obviously cry but I'm not crying. It's just tears. I'm like, looking at this laying it's just tears, and I'm thinking, like, man, it's gonna be the worst thing for me. And then, you know, after that first practice, I saw that man J Will. But my brother called me on wait to practice.

He's like, you don't like, He's like, I got something fun you here, man, Just just listen, be open, be humble, like, don't fight it, you know. So I go to practice like I'm not gonna fight the first one, even though I get the practice three days later, I'm not gonna come to the first one. But when I get there, I won't fight it. And then it comes to this loud mouth, Hey shot it. J Will just loud. It

just loud, you know what I'm saying. I'm like, this guy man, and he come in the first thing, he's just he's dripping in the ball with the weights on his hands, you know what I mean. He's doing all that and he's just handling the rock. And then we get into the first play, the first three on two and he hit a dude on the other side, and I'm like, well, let me see what happened. We come back on the two on one. I'm like, oh, it's something, something,

something different. Then we go outside. He's playing somebody from Florida hip hop that eight Main Street, but you got to know hip hopter this. I'm like, man, who is this kid? Man? And then man he became you know when I when I love playing with him. He you know,

I love ja will remember. I mean, that's kind of when you came into my life from a standpoint of like, I'm a Lakers fan growing up, Fab five fan growing up, but then you came to Sacramento where I'm at him like, because Sacramento basketball was terrible up to that point, I'm like, damn, we gotta see Webb. And then damn we got we got Jake Will too, and then you got you know, you got Bobby Jackson, you got Christie like Page, you gotta start building a squad. I'm like, okay, they got

something here. So how long do you feel like it took you guys to get that chemistry? Because you said once you stepped on for you saw it in Sleep with j Will. One one we played San Antonio the first game and I watched it for something a little while ago, and it was the first game everybody was on, like, I don't think it took that long. I remember delivering

pieces with Jay Will. We made the playoffs for the first time in like ten eleven years, and it looked like a college game because people were camping out for the playoffs to do out there, and me and Jay took the pizzas there, you know. But but you right, it ain't it ain't much to do out there, but

it is. And that's why I fell in love with Sacked, because I was like these first motherfuckers that accept oh they love you, they love and when they did that, but you know how to stack when somebody put there, you know, it's like, if you want to trick me, just act like you love me. You know what I'm saying, that's the easiest way because I'm like, oh, this is what it is, sat, this is what it is, and y'all Coyle Bell's y'all we got signed, lady. This this

what y'all want. This is y'all want. So I found the home man. Remember when you thought about leaving the want of the Moylan. They was ready to do anything for like we was the savior. You know, they came to Sacramento. It was it was for real. So you guys had some nice runs, um getting going. Obviously you know, face the Lakers, um lose and then get him in

the Western Conference Finals. Seconds to that Western Conference Finals series because there was a lot of ship that went on, particularly Game six, and then you know they're going to win in Sweet New Jersey. To me, that was that was your guys championship. Yeah, you know, it's funny because I know we're gonna get a lot of flak from talking about this, but I just I want to say this. Everything i'm gonna say, I'm gonna saying stand by, But we didn't win the championship, so I'm not making that

as excute. But we got cheated Game six, No question. It's just it's just no question. And people that say we didn't and don't watch the game. I don't even have time to talk to. I even said one time, coming down, the fix is in. Nobody played defense. Ful that you played defense next time? You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't It wasn't the same as it is today. Everybody loved them for today. It's a nice team playing, you know what I mean? It wasn't the same. You

could you could? You know. I've seen the podcast. I've gone down the rabbit holes. I'm not even gonna go there because I love the league and I do believe it. That was a one game by one bad guy probably or something like. I don't even really want to know truthfully what happened. So I don't want to know. But I remember the locker room after that game. I said to the team in my life, it's the first time

I ever felt cheating in my life. And watching the game, I know what happened, and you know, you should have made our free those games seven. But I can't alive I was it was after game six. Ah, It's like they took my heart. Man. It was like I was like, if we can't like y'all see what it is. Well, I mean, you guys were, you know, a tip away

from going up three one. You know, mean you guys are about to go through up three one against Kobe and Shock's team, you know, I mean, and me and me and Cole talked about me and Shock talk about it, you know what I mean, And they would say the exact same thing. E said, we should have won game seven. If you talked that win games seven? You know it's cold, you know you talked that, like all right, okay, and you're right right, but you know there's the But I

like the st the play you guys brought to the league. Uh, you know, Don Nelson was an innovator. We were talking about this before the show. But they have two passing bigs with the i Q and the vision that you and Bloody had and a bunch of shooters and a few playmakers around. You guys captivated basketball with your style of play. Uh what do you attribute that to? Buying in?

You know, Coach Krel told me when I came to he was like, and Coach Krel a real one here, real when he would like bring you a beard back of the bus and be like, you're mad at the son. Chris. I'm like, no, like you want to be on the post. Huh you want the ball. He's like, I need you to play this way. He's like, you make people better, continue to make people better. I was like, alright, coach, you know what I'm saying. And that's the thing. We

had guys that could play. So it's easy to get a triple dum when you handed off the stack, Zack or you you know what I'm saying. So it's like, be selfish for yourself to make everybody else, you know what I mean. And so I think it was all of us wanting to play. I think it was the work. I think I think it was do was like Doug Christie and Bobby Jackson, you know what I mean, Like I think about how hard dog worked every day and practice, you know what I mean. I think about the spirit

of our bench or how we were. So I think it was do we really care for each other and we wanted to win, and we knew that was the only way we could win it with big old Diesel when cob over there, you know, so, but you're right we were that. Yeah, we was killing we was killing New Jersey. Yeah, that's the best record in the league that year. How good would it like? One of the best teams ever period, one of the most dominant, one of the best teams ever, but one of the best

coach teams ever. You ever have a coach talk to y'all and get y'all calm or work with you all mentally before a game. I have this film turn the Lights Off, Little Noises. We just sit here before we watch film, and it was awesome. Other ship, I mean, come on, I mean even if you look at like, you know, Shaq car the other this teammates, you know, but just how you know, and you've had to play that role. You know how tough of a role it is to do your job in the iss your type

role or in the who else? Even Smoky Smoky sorry if I ever seen some Moki uh Smoky dancing after they wanted the championships anyway, So I want to play against Smoki. I want to come out of retirement just to go one on one with Sbaki. But that's just

in my head. But they were stack. They want the best teams because from their bitch to everybody on the beach, they all knew they roll man, that's why they you know, ain't nobody go rog Ain't nobody try to get one for themselves, Rick Fox, ain't try to do nothing, you know what I'm saying. So with that team, man, they they didn't want the toughest step to play because you

got a double shot. And I don't care when nobody said cold, still was one of the coldest because he would check your best player, ain't come down again thirty after going over nineteen. Yeah, confidence the same, I can't take him off again. We I was on the team when they was on the way to a four pint and we stopped in in San Antonio end winn. The championship with that team was special, man, because I remember what Kobe was willing them back into the series by himself.

You know, it's him that basically took shot out that year. But Kobe was just just willing themselves back into the game by himself. And I knew they was trying to get that for a championship, you know what I mean, They was playing like it. But that team was one of the best teams I've ever seen. Yea, So we get you guys fall short and Sacramento, Um, we discussed earlier the trade to Philly, um and then after that you hit a few, you get a chance to go home.

Talk to us about the Detroit situation before you hung it up. Best locker room I've been there. Who's in there? Who would remind us of the locker room? She Chauncey rep re tation mc dice, the campbell, Huh, it was the best team, man, just because we all were old. It just was no bullshit. There's no bullshit. It was out of practice, like for real. I got taped, so I don't know if you know. Freeze uh and in Vegas now has made him jump in the pool. So so we would bring our boys that like two on two.

I'm talking about guys getting off work from the factory. I got two of them coming and ripped. Got to everybody got to, and we're betting on our boys to win. Videotaping it. Joe d they favorite player is sitting right here and watching them. We got somebody taking score in Sometimes you might just have somebody coming in the chin. So we get out of practice earlier every day because we got a bracket of our teams. Your boys playing.

Freeze is playing with his with his girlfriend. She freeze fat freeze time Freeze used to be nice fat time and she's like, come on, man, we got this money. Come on, she smacked. You know. So now they ag't together no more. You know, they're fighting with this man. I used to be live man, bringing the hood and there, but that that was the best man. It was this great leadership, the best, you know. But we appreciate you.

You trying to make a pit stop knowing, not knowing the full length, but you know the kind of the way that that that Nelly fuck you over your first run. You tried to come funk with us the year after we believe, and you know, we were so excited to get you, but then kind of seeing Nellie come back to being Nellie, and then that's the year I was thankful for Nellie. The first year. The second years, when my mom died and I didn't sign a long term deal.

He wanted me to sign a three year deal, and I was just here and I can get more money, so I took the shorter term deal. So when I come back from just the craziness of my mom dying, this motherfucker pulls me outside outside of practice and tells me I'm glad you didn't take the long term deal. Your time is up here. And I'm like, after all the ship, all the ship you just saw after my mom just died, and he motherfucker' stuck to his word. I barely played the rest of the season right, scarily

played the rest of the season. Bro So, I had so much admiration because he really gave me my first shot shot to really hoop. And then the following season we rolled on me. And I'm just like, damn, so I saw we were talking about it before, Like Jack has some good memories with him. He allowed Jack to do some things, but like your situation, my situation is kind of he fucked out like that too. So Nellie was like he was good at building, somebody is quick

to burn it down. He didn't trust he you know, I mean, there's no bad way about him. But y'all ever been on vacation, like and you're going to a certain part of the city, like another country, and it's like a bunch of dogs that haven't eating the things that you ever noticed. Like if you go like this to the dog, the dog, the dog is the starving for years and he won't get close to your hand. You know what I mean, he hungry dog, and he won't trust you because probably people are smacking him shop.

That's how I felt them. All I kept thinking was dog, if you knew, like how loyal? You know what I'm saying? I'm calling money? Like what time to go to practice? Like I wanted to be a disciple of all of these dudes, Like what's I don't even get what's the problem here? You know what I'm saying? And then he would come apologize, But then there many he apologized, say something negative in the paper, you know, because it suck me. I'm like, wait a minute, is it me? Is you?

Then that's when I was like, you know what, everybody got their own bag, man, you got some bags? Carry your ship over there because I can't get but that don't I don't surprise, but I tell you this. I didn't necessary like the way I retired, but I appreciated y'all man, because all I kept thinking that Philly was man. If I was two years younger, playing with used to be in my mind like ay, I I can't even give you. I can't even give you what I what I wanted to give you, And I ain't realized I'm

averaged the most with him as a teammate. That's stupid, because he the best I ever played with. So when I got there with y'all and I saw these young boys, y'all have just did that to uh the Dallas the year before him, Like, yeah, man, I could be here, I could be an old man. Yeah I had some good time to play a little thing, get a bunch of sists, but it ain't work out. But it was,

you know, it was. It was cool for me talk real quick about AI because I don't think we got to see an on a day to day basis, how little he was, how beat up he was, but still how hard he was able to go night and night out, and the great person he was. Because that's another misconception, you know. Yeah, I love that dude. Man, that's nothing over the pandemic. But probably two years before I started making sure with Cats, I said, I love you, like look,

you know what I mean? Yeah, So he's somebody I need to do that too, because I don't think the world knew what he was taking on his shoulders, you know what I'm saying, how he was helping people, um, how he was growing, and how he was the coldest the codes like they always talked about that practice practice comment that was like after his man and past, Like

how did he get to that joke? Went after my man passed, I'm telling you practice don't mean nothing, practice practice and then y'all turn to a joke as if my man didn't die for that, you know. So the fact he just not going the fact he could be saying and cold, but again, I've never seen nobody what do you wait? One forty if that one forty going to the army. I remember we were watching him in Milwaukee play me. He was just laughing. I think he

had like sixty or fifty eight to cool cold. You just asked me how I would play in the league today? How would he playing the league? Unbelievable. When y'all play in the league, you couldn't shoot a guard. Wasn't good, you know what I'm saying, Like you know forty five,

like now you use the average? Yeah? Average? Playing with him, man, playing with him, you know that was That's that's one of the highlights of my career, suiting it up with him every night, seeing how he just no matter what happened, he turned it on hard. He talked a Saturday the other I ain't talked to say it's weird ass in a minute. That was crazy love that kung fu karate ship. What did you stop putting your post career playing together? I just fell into it, bro, That's kind of how

it happened. That's kind of how it happens. So you don't want to believe it's over. M I'm out there limping looking dumb on the court, fat you know what I mean, can't get into shape because your knee won't work. You know what I mean. You don't want to let it go, so, you know, turner to call. I think it was good that I was going back from a

a Turner and called. I knew ESPN it kind of wanted, but I didn't know where to fit in anything, and it just I thank god they called me because you know, now, once I got in there, I was like, oh, this is what I want to do. But before then, I really, you know what I'm saying, I thought, truthfully, doll, I thought I was gonna move someplace like when my town is something I ain't never been, and get a big phone and just just check out and just check out.

So I kind of did that happen. Yeah, yeah, I'm glad that didn't happen. So what what was it? What was it like getting in there? Obviously what you know at the beginning you were able to work with with Charles and Kenny in in um Ernie. What was that experience like, because I mean, that's that's the show for as as Hoopers, that's the show we all pay attention to. So now you went from Hooping right to that show.

I ain't gonna I haven't been out. You know. They say when we retired, we missed the locker room, not the game. That's the same thing. I get the locker room there. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's it's it's a blessing man, something about just being thankful, like if you told me, okay, you can't make the league and you're gonna have to work at the train station. But when you get forward and you could go work and turn up all right, kind of signed up, you know what

I mean. So it's it's cool, man, It's all it is. It's about twelve screens like this in the back usually Chuck watching uh, Peter Griffin, Yeah, exactly, family guys something. We're watching all that, and you keep checking back on the games. People making fun of you. You're sitting at the table, somebody walked by, smacking the head tip your drink over, you get something to eat, you know what I mean. It's it's just like if yeah, it's just like this right now, you know what I mean. It's

all love, nothing personal. And so that's you know, that's that's really what you know. That was the best for me being on there. But I think when big fella come, you can't. You got a big shock on there. So then I understand, Okay, let's take advantage of doing these

games and things like that. And so you know, once I didn't know stack what I wanted to do, but when I figured it out, and I try to tell a lot of young old players, because young players, I didn't try to make you feel guilty as athlete, like you know, a lot of players go broke or you know whatever. The horror stories are. Get ready for your career and now I'm gonna tell you that. But also when you get to the end of your career, you'll figure it out. I mean, you learned how to play basketball,

you know what I mean. They try to make it like basketball is it's a rebel, you know, it isn't smart that you don't have to work your way. When I got the time, I was a rookie, work my way from the bottom, take these licks, do what I gotta do, be frustrated and earn my spot. You know what I'm saying is so hopefully a lot of young players out there just take notes on what they like to do. Just just take something what you like to do, and hopefully you know your life will give you the

opportunity to be able to go in those areas. But yes, that I didn't know I came from. But that kind of ship's inspiring and and I don't think it's something Jack and I kind of realized too, obviously, like when we saw the transition of you doing like damn okay, well's gonna like the T and T And then we funk around and get a podcast right around, and it's a winning I don't know how to funk, y'all. Hey, I love it, Hey, I love it a matter fact, I think I want the world show that. Hey, I

say that to you all too. I was laughing when he's said it, because I'm like episode, because we could do anything now, Like you talk about the balls and stuff, I'm meant my brother was a lawyer and all this he had braids. Hey, I made it easier for him at work, you know what I'm saying, Like all of this, Like I'm telling you that's why I'm stealing your energy now, like my young boys gotta show. But what's wanna talk to me about from the car now? I ain't even

gonna call you know what I'm saying. So I love it. Dog, They're not gonna steal this joy but being successful because when it turns into is protection. Don't just have this? Is that? This is that you know? And I'm just saying, it's just it's just joyful to know. I didn't know. And when I y'all the show, I'm like, what's naming

that show up? And smoke out? Said hell hanging who they so And to the people that believe me, shot shot it out because it takes whether it's diversity, whether it's getting your dream, whether it's including people you know whoever y'all pitched it too, or ever picture to y'all and believe that those those in the minds the outside the box. But like I said, they other people could see us like Okay, they're doing it. You're doing that

Like there's there, there are options. Eddie Haskell, he used to just be sitting back watching, just just sitting back watching. You can tell he was soaking up for all that ship. I was talking about that on the way here. I said that that's just one thing about us. The best thing about men and him was we've both been team players our whole life, NBA, high school, We've always been team players. So with this, it comes from us being able to play our role. Let my brother leave, not follow.

You know what I'm saying, what I feeling like, I need to be in front. That's why we win. That's the only reason. Because anything he wants for me without me being in the building, anything want from himself, excuse me, without me being a building, I know he won't for me, you know what I'm saying. And that's that's that's the nuts. Jack came me up and let me know what, Just let me know we got to sign a contract. Just the black stuff we don't get to see because we

only see this, that, this, that, this that. But like even the fact, like this motherfucker text me a twelve last talking about we got to show a twin tomorrow. If that's the way it should be right, no, little man, don't call my agent. Don't call my agent. Dog like, that's the ship. Didn't make me mad at you. Now if I don't answer the phone twice, I get it. Then you have to. But this is the strength I take out of it because I want my son to

be like, no, we don't hate look at that. Get the show with that to your twins, an example for my twins. You know what I'm saying, So yeah, man, like it's it's just love seeing brothers do their thing athlete and activism. You're teaching the online online course. You've been on it, and let's say that he'd been on it more. But I was gonna say that to say, like, I know your mom is proud of that. Talk to

us about what you're doing with Ed Moore house. She probably you know that she ain't give me the stamp yet. You know she's still like, yeah, let me see what's next. You mean, yeah, man, she uh, it's a blessing. So all I do, man, is I try to teach the youth today that it's a dope guy like Kappennick and what Lebron and them doing, and before them, it was Dr carloson and Dr Evers. That's all. That's that's all.

I just want everybody to know that Will Rudolph she was nice and tracked, but she was better in tennis and could you imagine that they didn't let her play? Like let's you know history right. Lebron to me has done some of the most ever, Like I admired him off the court, damn the morning on the court. And what I want the kids to get is that this

is where y'all gotta take it from. Don't compare him with what Kareem and Jim Brown in them then because they didn't have social media and they had one company said say something, Well, I'm gonna take all that. You know, they didn't have it. So I just wanted to be more of an appreciation. That's that's all. It is, just a study of protests. Was protests? Was the brothers cause righteous? What made them do it? Are they happy they stood

the way they did? What they do it again? And really talking to him like so one class I really like is we talked about um kind of fair trade and fair trade when you think about it is because of Spencer Haywood. Spencer Haywood came out he was poor there was no term called hardship. So he came out of Mississippi. His mother was picking cotton when he was in the league, and so he gets suspended, all this other stuff. He takes his court case to the Supreme Court.

If he didn't do that, it would have been a code, wouldn't have been a kg have been other players. So just to let them know, like you look at him as a basketball player again, because they try to dump down a lot of a lot of things because you're an athlete or your sport. And I just want to know. I know, I know you think it's about him coming out and getting out here early, but you really should see that because of what he did, players that came

out early made thirty billion dollars. So we talked about the fear he had. You know, he comeing from Mississippi. Can't you know, do a lot of things other people could do. And he's gonna take this stand for everybody else, you know what I'm saying. So I just want us to appreciate everybody had to do something to get us all to this point. For some people that would be quiet. For some people who just study raised hell, you know

what I mean. And so with that, I'm just trying to make sure I bring up you know, men and when the athletes that have made an impact through protests and now you know, we talked about it, you know, and I thought it was dope knowing you were doing that and then seeing you know, all the ship he didn't on the front line. You know, I've kind of been in the activism space for him for the years, but to see you know, him be a part of, tellingly the biggest protests in the history of the you

know what I mean that we've ever seen. No, I don't think you understanding because you know he's still in it. He can't steal in it, you know, I mean, but to be able to see that in it, and it just goes to show like it's we're supposed to be dumb athletes, I mean, but yet we're sparking like Tupacs that I might not change the world, but I guarantee I'll spark the mind that doesn't. That's our job to spark these minds. And I think that what we've been able to do off the court, you know, is special.

You know. Accomplishing to be in the NBA, is you have a better chance to get instruct by lightning, and we all enjoyed that. But I'm saying, the impact we're able to make post career, to me is what's the most important. That's why we're not see and he hates you get our laugh because I know, I know your

mom built for it. I don't even care, like they don't even know, like this this is a part of y'all see but you don't know where it comes from it When I say you stack, I don't know you as well, but I and following you and I know you you're doing some things and I know you know what you're doing, but when God using you, you don't know. You don't know what you're doing. You don't You're just

going strong. You're strong, and that's all I need you to keep doing because from day one, the way you've handled this, I mean, you've inspired people that don't know nothing about who You made people come to me and hold me more accountable. You know what I'm saying, Like, that's that's the way I think it happens in the largest in my lifetime that I can think, especially because it is and it's gonna have a long lasting effect. And seeing you and his daughter or understanding what it's

gonna do to someone thirty years later. Think about the documentary when they have to tell this story thirty fifty, a hundred years later of of what happened to make basketball stop? You know what I mean? So I thank you, dog, because because I know it getting lonely a time. I know you've got people around you, and I know all that. But I thank you, dog, and you're supposed to your bill for you. I appreciate it. And it goes back to what you said, like I don't know what I'm doing,

but like you said, you're teaching people before us. I got to read no, Marcus Garbin, Marcus Garbin. I fell in love with him because a lot of the things that I think about, I'm getting answers from him on what he did and how to do it, you know what I mean. Like like you said, every everything that we're doing or try to go, we try to reach

somebody's done it before. But but we need to understand what they did so we can continue to go forward and build off what they did, not just be obsolutely I'll put aside what they did because it's not it's not today, but it still matters because it's still relevant and people don't think. I said the other day Sean Connery was seventy six. He's two years old than wal Luther King. So when Luke King was King that killed. That wasn't that long ago. But you gotta make people

understand stuff like that. Still in this position, keeping he's definitely twenty twenty one NBA Hall of Fame finalists. What is that? I want to read the list to you real quick before you tell me what it means. Your coach, Rick Adam and Paul Pierce, Chris Bosh, Michael Cooper, Ben Wallace, You're Loanda Griffin, Lauren Jackson, Tim Hardaway, Bill Russell as a coach. What does what does that mean? You know, coming from the inner city Detroit and in your journey,

the ups, the downs, the in between. To me, it's about time. But when you hear it, what does it mean to you? Man? It was it was just me wow. You know, you know in my mind, you know, you feel like, okay, I should or all that I played against this guy. But in your mind you're just like, damn, I can't even believe it's you. You dreaming win championships, to shoot commercial you know, I dream to make the

Hall of Fame. You know what I'm saying. So it would uh man, that would that would that would definitely be honored. Man, that would definitely. It was dope to us because we did a live show at All Star last year and KG gets to talking and you were

one of one of his main people. He looked up to you know what I mean and like to say, you don't really like you just told Jack, you don't realize what it is while you're in it, and once you kind of take a step back and you hear someone like you know, KG say you know I should I'm out of my game at the Sea where in me so much because he was my favorite NBA player during my time and you know me, so fuck you. I ain't working out right. It was different back there now.

I saw him in Turning. I saw that T and T the first time after I retired from my game, A hug like, man, we're gonna hang out now, and I've been waiting. I've been wanting to hang out with you dog. You know what I'm saying, And that's yeah. So when you tell me that and knowing that you know that's just yeah, that's Dompe. But Uh, that's that's great when your favorites tell you that's real. Bit alright, man, quick hitters. Last five questions. First thing to come to mind,

answer favorite teammate. Damn, that's how I know right here we had a man, we had we was I'm excited to be hard, but it's hard. And I don't just say because it's punk here, but it's hard not to be his friend, bro, because you know, you got somebody down with you when you're chilling and we just need to be on the bull of ship. Bro, what's up? I wish you're right? You're right. It was crazy that when I played with him, he was a young rider, so he was wilder and more cautious, you know. Same.

You gotta understand, like I think that's for some people, funk up. I understand. I'm trying to make the league. I'm around, You're traveling with all stars in future Hall of Famer, so I can't do all. You can't do this. You don't get away with this. You can come and then to see him grow because the whole time, you know, you just know, Like I don't know if he was gonna coach or something, but I know I know how you'd be working. You know what I'm saying. I just

know your mind was raising all the time. And you're right, man, like getting traded with him, letting him see me and my worst and seeing him and his worst. I remember when he got the tattoo. Believe because and it was because I was on my way. I had to believe what I'm saying. So, yeah, man, he's you're You're a good dude. It's good too. It's good to have people

like that means a lot. Uh toughest matchup KG defensively on me, offensively to stop tim or she if he was if she was gonna come at you all game, she she would take his foot off the gas because it wasn't about scoring him. It really wasn't about scoring the sheet. It really wasn't. That's so great. He might be the only player I've ever played with it wasn't about It wasn't about scoring. He they're talking about defense, and you know what I mean. But she, yeah, four guys,

you gotta pick four guys. You're going to the black Top, not the NBA. You're gonna play on the black top in Detroit bottom bring it with you, be your homeboys. He could be four NBA players. He could be Christie because I need him. He gonna be the only one to play defense me. I can still lock him up right now, cam Coason, this is all up and smoke. Man, I gotta give us a shout out there as my point guard. Man, y'apom my two guards. I'm gonna go. Let me see yap my two guards only come down.

None of these names, but yeah, Omar and Tonio Ragling and Quincy Bones. That's my phone left to the super friends. Maybe you have to go to the park. But man, I mean that was that. That was your guy. But to be able, like I said, to be able to move with this dude, and he was at the level I was just beginning to see everything he went through. But then to see keV too, like his biggest, biggest, biggest fucking supporter. You can ever imagine good bad in

between Keva's there. But we had so much fun with him too, Like it was tough and philly, but we had a lot of fun. It was tough man. We would play mad Man for this and I had this naked down eight billion yeah, running back and then we started doing physical challenge that like you had to drink a whole bottle of in one drink. Or keV had to run up and down the hallway in our hotel, in our little building, butt naked with his socks a. So this nig is running down suicide. Who feeling that ship?

I thought you feel it? Did? I remember? We made we made do drink a bucket of water. You had to go to the hospital. You had drink a bucket of water. And five They used to be on the challenge like it was no other No, yeah, thank god, there's no And there wasn't really too many cameras around back then because it was some ship. Yeah, uh five dinner guests that are alive. I'm gonna go Cicily Tyson, just because rutually on my mind with the book, we

haven't heard her. I'm gonna go, uh wow, I knew you. I knew you was gonna like this question. Yeah, I'm gonna go like three great grandfathers, like somebody in my family, like we don't you know somebody that went through it all that could tell me, yeah, we're here, like a great great great great deep to your dad went through just that that far removed to get a great grandfather? Yeah, what did they go through. Um, yeah, it's hard because you don't want to be too corny. Or two you

know those two you bring Bob Molly in nice. We need somebody with music. I'm gonna say those three. I'm gonna go with your boy, Um, Marcus Garvey because I think they erased his history more than anyone else, because we don't even talk about until recently he had the largest parade out of New York. But just think about that. Then the cruise ship is gonna take people back, you know. I mean I would love to talk to him and then uh started his own currency too, Yeah, I mean

then then back then uh. And I'm gonna say just christ m nice. Hey, So go on, all right, last question and their answer you have to help us with their answer. Who you want to see on this show? On all the Smokes Dope, y'all have Tyson on it? No, we need him, we need it, and we need to go on his show too, because he burned. Let me tell you something heavy heavy, he burns it. He Uh.

He want the smartest men I've ever met. You know why I want to talk to him because what I'm similar with him like and I ain't knocking people out here. But I do have nice with mine. But that ain't what we're saying is he weighs emotions on his sleep, like you know how I cry all the time, Like he'll do it right. And that's how I am. The ones that don't, just the ones that don't cry, just don't go places where they cry, Like I can't walk in the Church of our cry. Like it's it's the same.

He's just Yeah, it's a different bravery. Yeah, it's a different And the number one ruled up and fighting. You never fight. You never fight somebody that's crying before the fight start. Yeah, that's that's how McCall knocked out Lenox Lewis or so you know. So. But I want you to have Tyson man because I'm in d C. It's a good story and uh, I'm in d C and this it's just it's terrible. It's a whole bunch of stories and stays and paper things going on. This is

Mike Tyson dog on everything I love. I have a security camera out there and a friend of Oza Doria is bringing Mike to the crib. He's the champ. This this is when he suspended four no no, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry. Ninety seven he's suspended and I'm in d c so in nineties seven, I think, and I'm in the crib and I'm going through it and Tyson knocking on my door, ringing the bell. I don't answer. You know, I come out. Twenty minutes later, he knocking on the door.

He didn't sit down on the porch. Then he started talking like, I know you in there. I know you in there. You know what I'm saying. I'm trying to avoid it. You know what I mean. He's my favorite fighter in the world. But what am I gonna talk to you about right now? You don't even know me that right coming to the basement. Man, I keep a journal and I just wrote down when the smartest man I haven't met, I need this, And it was something like, man,

I care about what people saying about you. He's like, I run this hill every day. He's like, the hill will never beat me. In my life. The hill doesn't move, but he can't beat me. You know, the hill don't even want to attack me. But the hill will never beat me. Whatever I put in my mind won't beat me, won't beat me, just like the hill can't beat you with nothing you do, you ain't gotta go to the hill,

but in your mind, if you he'll beat you. And even just talking about man, just forgiving yourself hard work, keeping that grime in you and and understanding that I couldn't things in different places, but just not letting them overcome each other. And at the end of the day, you know, I'm like, why did you come over here? What is He was like, I just wanted to talk to you brother when he left. Remember, man hunted ground ever since. But I never asked for that, you know

what I mean. That's why with us, I know y'all do. That's why though I make sure i'd calling young boy. I don't even want to know what's going on butro but I know I know something. If they win today, you are hole, you know what I mean. I knew if you start being better, you a home, you know what I'm saying. So so I just like encouraging dudes because I've had people do that to me. Dog, it could be somebody at the gas station, you know what I mean, Like, we love y'all. Keep keep doing what

you're doing, you know what I'm saying. I appreciate that, and I don't pay attention to the but they don't pay attention to the hey, so it's not like I listened to everything. I choose to take in man and him doing that for me at that time it was crazy. And then I went there to visit him when he was in jail for where he went through and all that, and I went so anyway, when I when I look at him and the jewels he dropped, because most people

can drop book jewels. When you drop jewels on something in life that's a fact or or just how you're gonna get through it. Those two people I like being around people have been through something that's gonna help my soul out. And he's one of the people. Y'all gotta talk to him and make him standing right there and throw them punches at you like I'm I'm hearing six intes of punches. He started getting mad. He's like yeah, because you know when the world is gets He's like

he's just doing and and I'm right hearing. I'm speaking if he let one slip him, Dad thinking I'm with the champ right now. You know what I mean? All these emotions, y'all, y'alling, y'alling, Mike, you gotta have an audience for that because I'm being in the front row. Now, last question, I forgot something, um, he and I have been advocating for. You were o G. You have a hundred million dollar cannabis fund right now you might speaking

on that. Well, first of all, shout out to like uh John Sally, Shout out to Al Harrington, Shout out to all the brothers just been in this business, you know what I mean, because it's not me versus anybody. Everybody shout out to you the Cliff, Yeah yeah, Cliff, Yeah yeah, Cliff. That's why he was in shape for so long he was you know. Um, So with this, I have a partner Jason Wild. He has a big

imprint in cannabis community. So what really I wanted to do While I have my own brand is called Players Only and we have all this other great stuff, I wanted to help other people come into the business this and not just like with the cultivation cultivations costs like eight millions of you like, it ain't about that. It's about Hunt told a friend of mine day heard the girl should get together and start a bud tending uh service where you go to parties and blood. I don't know,

y'all smart enough to figure it out. But let's make the business plan and this doing. How about other people that have been in the business so long, delivery bakeryes, Like, realistically, what do you want to do? What are you really

to work for? What's your business plan? And we got you because we can use the infrastructure of all the large companies that we have, because a lot of times you get cold money like here you go stack, open up a rusturant something, but no one says, no, you need to do this, and just the mistake I ran into. So my thing is not to just create you know, cultivations, but everybody on every single line, to let there be a place for information. Let there be a place too long,

Let there be a place to help. I mean, we're gonna do something in sacrament We're gonna do stuff with other things that you're in the community and if you need it, I'm with you anything in the community. And so yeah, we're just trying to I'm just trying to make money and help people. Man. Well, I mean it's dope, and I don't like you said, when you're in it,

you don't really know. But the fact that you know a former NBA great has a hundred million dollar cannabis fund geared towards people to look like us, to help us get in this space because this space was obviously we were the most affected by it, but we're less than five percent representation in the space. So to have someone like you and like you said, cold money is most of the time wasted money, Like you're allowing infrastructure

to where you know, I'm opening my facilities. You know, I'm opening my you know, we're giving you education, We're giving you a lot more than just handing you money, like we really want to see you in and and that's rare. And two people out there, I mean I called you or you called me the week before. We were talking and you mentioned something about of fun and I announced, that's why you got to keep people around, just that energy, you know. And we're gonna do a

lot of work together. I mean, I want to work with other people, especially people I know that love their community. Else when I go back to Sack with or anybody with you or Texas because you know, one boy, Ray Jackson said you have to burn it down out there when you get it, you know what I mean. So yeah, and I just, uh, I think now is that we've made a lot of connections. We've let people see our work ethic and they could trust our work ethic. Like if y'all played in the league and can shoot free

throws in front of thousands of people, do this. This ain't gonna be nothing for y'all. Right, you're gonna find who how to do it and learning right. And I'm just glad I have business partners that believe in me, because I'm about to do that in real estate. I'm about to do that other things because I just put it like this. I told one of my white partners, this ain't no um giveaway. Don't make it like it's

no welfare because people work hard like my father. This ain't no fake stat This is unmind ground that y'all don't want to go to. Y're all scared to go to Steven Jackson neighborhood. So this we're digging in the ground there. You're scared to go there, and I'm in them the excavator. We got it. I'm not I'm not afraid of my people, you know what I mean. And that's all it is. We're giving access to those that don't get it. That's all We're not got a nothing.

God got them. They got themselves. That are hard workers. We're just saying, anybody want to come in this way, work hard, you got it, so you know. So I'm glad my partners understand that. Last question cannabis, cannabis and sports, the thoughts on it. It looks like UM hockey was first Major League baseball in the NFL, and the NBA is finally come around. Like I said, we've advocated for

a long time. You know, I did a lot of dodging hoops to be able to do it while we played, and to find out that there's finally medical research backing up the reasons why we felt we needed it at that time. What is your thought, you know, being removed from the sport now but kind of finally seen them turn the corner from that aspect. Yeah, so I got suspended with twelve games or something. I think lost like a million or a couple because, uh after I had

micro fracture surgery. No one had ever come back from it, and the doctors and Kylie was like, man, the stomach kurt, you got ulcers, you know, and you know you need to try this oil. You need to do this. So at that time, I did what I did and wrote the league a letter like you know you're not gonna have it. Beat it. I'm just sitting around here because I'm tired and running from man and this is what it is, my leg and so I think that they got to take I think the world is always laid

on culture. Sports always laid on culture. Culture has been ahead of it, you know what I mean. Instead of not looking at it that wow, Matt smoking one after the game? You know. I talked to doctors and they're like, yeah, Matt is providing itself. Sleep management instead of Matt blowing one after the game is okay, that's moved management, you know what I mean. We really are so used to a lifestyle that is not normal that we don't give

ourselves the love that we should. Like you think it's normal to go to get on the plane and to get to the spot of five in the morning, stay open a couple of hours, go to sleep in one hour, and then go to practice. That's what ain't real, you know what I mean? And so yeah, a lot of it. You can't harm yourself if you don't do things right.

But at the same time, it is a true thing of self medication, and this has been around for thousands years, so they have to catch up and they usually will catch up when they figure out how they can't get their money out of it, not the yes, how they contacting and figured out well, man, Chris, We appreciate you man. I've been tracking you down for a long time. We finally got you here. Thank you for your time. Man. That's a wrap special guest Chris, where we appreciate your time.

You can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and I Heart Platform Black Effects see how next week. This is all a Smoke A production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime