Charles Woodson | Ep 68 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

his beautiful life. Man, what's up with you? Man? I can't call it out here in l A. Was trying to give the baby a bath a little bit earlier in this little nigger ship all in the toilet clug everything up. So hey, I'm off to a good start today. Let me tell you that anyway. Outside of that, Man, you know, I grew up a huge football fan and this dude is to me, one of the best defensive backs to ever play the game. It's an honor to have him today. Welcome our friend, Charles Woodson, Welcome to

the show. Bro appreciate it, man, I appreciate it. Man. Good to see your boys. Many will Man. We appreciate at your time. Man. So let's let's get right to it. Man, was a definitely a year to forget. Um, what do you take away from that year personally? You know? Man, it was it was like you just mentioned that it was a tough year. Was it was an odd, you know,

kind of weird year, man. And I feel like, Um, everyone had to you either move, you know, you either get better you get worse, right, And so everybody had to find a way man too, um do their thing whatever it is. You know, Like we're on this zoom call right now, you know, and you know, before you had to travel, you know, you had to pick up, leave your house, leave for two or three days wherever you were going, um to to do an interview or to meet with people, and all of these different things.

But now all of these things are done through zoom. So I feel like everybody had to adjust. I think was a year for adjustment if you wanted to survive. And if you didn't want to survive, then you don't adjust, and you stick to what you doing, then you find yourself. You're gonna find yourself in one trying to catch up, you know what I mean. So I feel like that was a big part of it. And then I felt like I felt blessed, to be honest with you, because

you know, you watch television and you see people struggling. Man. You see, um, where people are cooped up in in their homes, apartments, or wherever they are. I'm so blessed to be to live where I lived, where I could actually get outside, I could get out, ride my bike, and you know, just kind of enjoyed my surroundings. And I didn't really felt like I had a care in the world. Man. My family was good, you know, everybody

was healthy. So man, we just we just maintained through the whole thing and just and just try to, like like I said, survive. Man. In adjust how do you feel about the NFL finally back in their players in the social justice fight. Yeah, I think they had to, man, I mean, you know, it was it was it was up in the face of everybody. Um. You know, I've watched you know, all that you guys have done, especially

you know, surrounding George it um and when people saw that. Man, you know, I remember watching Dave Chappelle's uh stand up when he emphasized eight minutes and forty six seconds, you know what I'm saying, And when he when he emphasized it.

It almost it almost shook your body because the whole world actually sat there and watched that, and you could you can sit there and watch it for eight minutes in forty six seconds, and when you watch that, it just it tears you apart because the look on the face of the officer to me, was the most disheartening part of the whole thing, because he, for one, he didn't care about the life in which he took, but then his face also told you ain't nothing gonna happen

to me. I have all of these cameras on me, I got all these cell phones, probably got cameras from the store zooming down on him, and his face said, man, I don't care, you can't do nothing to me, and nothing's gonna happen to me. And the world saw that man, and that's why there was an upris and not just here in the States, but around the world and in different countries. You saw people who were standing up and actually felt like at that point they had the courage

to stand up and say something. So the NFL, you know what, what something with that with that moment symbolized this. I think they mentally you got a picture of Colin Kappernick kneeling down, and then you got a picture of that officer kneeling down, and you said, wait, you got to step back and say, wait a minute. We we just we just vilified this guy for kneeling down for change, and he's no longer allowed to play in our NFL

because we pitted him against the American flag. And then we got this officer of the law who's kneeling down taking a life as if he's gonna have immunity, and nothing's gonna happen to him. And so the NFL had to they had to come around man. Otherwise Man, it was there's gonna be a big problem. Absolutely. Did you kind of feel obviously you came in in the late nineties, um,

but played eighteen years. Were there ever issues? I mean, the NBA is kind of always freely, been very free and has always backed its players and stood behind us

when we spoke on things. Were there ever a time in your career that anything came up or or possibly anything that you know, not necessarily that affected you, but came up in general, But you didn't really feel comfortable speaking on it because, like I said, in the NFL is really to me on the outside looking in, never really had the backs of its players when it came to speaking up for things that are unjust, things that are wrong, just in general speaking up. Did you ever

have that feeling as a player while you were playing. No, I never had that feeling in I don't feel like during my time like there was there was an issue that I felt like I really needed to, you know, step up and speak out about. UM. Most of the things that happened to me during my career that I felt like I needed to speak out against, as far as maybe the you know, a team or coach or whatever. I never had no issues with that. I said what

I what I would feel at that moment. But of course, you know, guys, you know, depending on UM, you know where you are in the economic you know, ladder, as far as the sports is concerned. You know, that does silence a lot of guys. And that's that's the one thing that I would say about NFL players that we always envied about basketball and the NBA is that they

did always seem to have the backup the players. You know, even even even when it comes down to coaching in the NBA, hiring black coaches, you know, those types of things we were in the NFL. We look at will be like, man, those guys are miles ahead of us. Um as far as you know what we're doing. So but but as far as me being uh, you know, afraid to speak out about something, thoughts on how the NFL is navigated through COVID and and it's you know,

efforts to try to finish this season. Uh, you know, the NBA is definitely facing it right now with you know, games being canceled because guys don't have enough you know, players to to feel the team. The NFL for the most part, obviously you guys have a lot more people on your roster. But they've done a fairly good job of kind of being able to navigate through this COVID. What are your thoughts on on what they've been doing. I think I think they've done a great job. Consider it, man,

You know, the the NFL is a machine. You know, this is fifteen sixteen billion dollar a year business man. They were they were going to make it work. Um. You know, you had a few hiccups, you know during the middle of the season where they had to push some games back and you know kind of rearranged scheduling a little bit. But I think the NFL, man, the owners and the commissioners and and everybody involved. Man, they were dead set on making sure that this that this

season worked. And if if somebody was to you know, get COVID or come down with symptoms or you know, you had people that were um around that person and they had the quarantine. You know, if you had to, if you were to the Broncos that you had to bring in a guy who never played it down, then you brought it in because you were gonna make you were gonna make it work. Man. So I think the NFL that they done a new outstanding job. But I think they have the bully pulpit, man, you know, they

they call the shots. So yeah, I think they did a great job now, I think and I think it's been an outstanding season. Uh thus far in the playoffs. Who who's caught your I teams players? Yeah, Man, I really like, um what I see out of Buffalo. I've been I've been really high on you know, their quarterback this year. I think he's you know, kind of making he's making that leap as far as being one of

the elite quarterbacks in the game. I think what they did in the off season trading for Stefane Diggs was you know, kind of like the the one thing that they really needed, like a like a stud on the outside that was gonna draw attention. And you see the way that their relationship has really developed over the course

of this season. These guys are like best friends. And you know, when you got a quarterback and a receiver on the same page the way that they are, you know, you're gonna put up a lot of yards, score touchdowns, which is ultimately going to help you win games. And when you think about it, you know, if it was to come down to you know, the Bills and and say the Chiefs, then you got to score points because

the Chiefs are going to score points. So you gotta have you gotta have an offense that's that's gonna be able to shoot it out with those guys. Um if they happen to meet down the road black quarterbacks in the playoffs, Lamar Mahomes weston how special these guys man. You know, it's it's great because you know, when you think back right when we were growing up, you know it was you know, it was that stigma about you know, black quarterbacks and playing you know, playing that position right.

And to have you know, so many of these young guys coming in and really being able to you know, um, you know take that quarterback and quarterback in position to

the next level. It just it does you some good, right because we all, all of us, you know, had some guys that we you know, we knew growing up or watched you know, in high school or other high schools that were athletic quarterbacks, but you knew as soon as they got the college they were moving to receiver, right or as soon as they left college and went to the pros, somebody's gonna say, no, he maybe he'll

be a good punt returner. And so those guys never got they never got a shot to play play the game. And so now like you said, you know, having uh Lamar Jackson in there, man who who got his you know, first playoff win, which is outstanding. So he's gonna be dangerous, you know what I mean, He's gonna be a dangerous guy in his playoffs. So um, it's fun to watch him, man,

because they bring so much excitement into the game. You know, you talk about my homes throwing uh no look passes and behind his back and underhand and dude, he's a special guy. Man. So I just I like watching all these guys. It's just it just makes the game fun. Thoughts on the lack I mean you touched on it a second ago, but the lack of black head coaches um in the NFL. Is there a recipe that kind of change that? I know, Eric b Enemy as someone

who's been sitting in line definitely uh paid his dues. Um. What are your thoughts on the possible way of getting more to versity uh? For for NFL head coaches, Well, we thought we had that way with the Rooney rule, you know, but it seems like it seems like guys are brought in, you know, just as like that that token interview and then and then it's all about you know, the buddy buddy system, you know, and bringing in, you know, a guy that maybe brought you in years ago, or

a guy that's been coaching forever. You know. I think back, or I think about a coach of mine, Joe Witt, who's my defensive backs coach in Green Bay, and I noticed I've been around this guy as as as a player on the same team with him, coached by him. I know he understands football. I know he's waiting on this shot to possibly get a coordinator position, but he could never get that shot, you know, and he just continues to get you know, passed over and get and

gets looked over. And you know, I'm you know, I'm on Twitter, you know how, you know, talking about him and giving him his props as as as a coach, and I'm trying to you know, use my voice to help him out. He just continues to get looked over. And so the thing is going to happen is he's gonna be you know, fifty years old, never having a shot, you know, to run a run a run of defense and then ultimately maybe becoming head coach in the NFL.

You know, if you look at my team, the Raiders, they just let their coordinator go and then they immediately go get a head coach that just got fired by another team and to be the defensive coordinator. You know, I sent I sent a you know text the group and hey, bring Joe in and at least interview him. And you know, when you when you can't get those things done and be able to vouch for guys and get him those opportunities, then they just continue to get

looked over, you know. So I mean you just need you need some some coaches out there man to you know, hey, man step out on a limb, you know, and bring some of these guys in and eric b enemy that ain't stepping out on the limb that we we've seen. We've seen this track record and he's still not getting

a job, which I don't understand that at all. So if they hire people to look like them at the end of the day, And I think the fact that they had to create a rule called the Rudy Rule to give minorities and the opportunity to really say something, and the fact that there's really been no follow up with that rule or enforce and enforcement of the rule, um is unfortunate. But like I said, I mean, we're not only good for scoring touchdowns, throwing touchdowns to getting interceptions.

We can definitely lead teams and coach teams to you know, on the highest level as well. Yeah, no, no doubt. Like I said, just just just don't bring in your buddy. Just don't bring in uh, you know, somebody that that you knew along the way, you know, take a shot. Man. This this this game is this game is evolving, and you know, you need guys that know truly understand the game and can relate to players. Man. And I know

Joe w is one of those guys. So that's why I always, you know, give him his process whenever I can. Best of luck to man, our man, Joe Witt and his opportunities and the journeys. Um born, Fremont, Ohio. What would your childhood like well with with sports prominted in your family, what drew you to sports? Yeah? Man, my my uh my mom has three kids. So older brother and older sister who were who I grew up with

in my household. And both of them were My sister was in the track, volleyball, my brother was football, ran track, wrestle, and you know those were those were like my first you know, my childhood idols. And they were right there in the house. And uh you know they were they

were they were beasts, you know what I mean. So I grew up in that environment of playing sports, and you know, playing playing everything, you know, football, basketball, baseball, you know, whatever whatever you could, whatever, what kind of ball you can put your hands on. Man, we was out there getting it done. You know. We meet up in the yard, man, everybody to get together player pick up games. So whether it was baseball or what, we

were out there playing. Man. So I definitely grew up around sportsman, and um, you know figured out fairly well that I was pretty decent at what I was doing. So absolutely, when did football becomes serious to you? I would say, I think it was probably always serious. Um, I think when you know, when you're out there playing in the yard. You know, I was one of the kids that you know, they the older kids would bring me out, you know, in the neighborhood and they say, hey, man,

you come on, you're playing right. That says a lot though, because kids don't play outside the way I understand. When you get the older kids to vouch for you, they want you on your team. You're nice, especially if you're young. And so I think that's where I developed some of my moves as an offensive player, because the big dudes, man, they wasn't playing around. Man. You know, if I was gonna be out there, you know what I'm saying. If I was gonna be out there, man, you gotta take

some of this pain. Man. So I was I was trying to get to that sidelining and get up that sideline. You know what I'm saying, Well, they're players or teams you grew up watching or or idolizing or trying to emulate as a youngster. I grew up watching you know, the Bengals, the browns Um. I was a big New York Giants fan um as a kid. And then as far as you know players, you know, like I said, other than my brother and sister, man Walton pay was that was That was the guy. That was the guy

for me. You always tell people that, you know when I would be, you know, on the playground, and you know how kids are. Man, Hey, I'm just playing. I'm just playing. Walter Walter playing was the guy for me. Man like sweetness, you know, had the rules on and and and that that rules Kangaroo head band, little little Jerry curl or not. Man, See, I wondered because we had we had Dion. Dion said his Jerry Curl was dry.

Still don't believe my wonder if Walter ship was wetter dry Walter ship, hold on, hold on, hold on, you gotta get dions quote correct. It was. It just looked, yeah, it was looking wet. It looked like, Hey, I'm just saying I'm just saying. I'm gonna say Walters was wet because he had the head band. You gotta keep you gotta keep that stuff about you, keep that ship out

your eyes. Yeah, my dad used to play these little neighborhood games and he would have to have the towel around his workshirt so that ship didn't drip on this shirt. So his ship was always listening the Classic on the couch and everything. Man, what that ship was? What that's so glow glove? That was? I'm from Texas, bro So growing up, I think I'm two years older than be. Growing up, high school football is crazy, especially on Fridays, you know what I mean? What was high school football

like for you in Ohio? Yeah? Well, high school football in Ohio is one of those states. So you talk about Texas, you talk about California, Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania like those those are the states man, and of course now you know Jersey and there's some other other states, but those those states there, man, high school football was everything, you know, and we you know, we we grew up under the you know, the Friday night lights and you know,

you couldn't wait for Friday football. You know, the stadium was right in the middle of our small little town, man. And when it was time for them games, man, you people lined up down the street, you know, trying to get on the other side of that on the other side of that fence, you know, to get into the stands man, to watch football. Man. So football was it was it was the life life blood of our community,

you know, like a lot of other places. Man. And so like for me, you know, growing up and starting out playing the game, man, and watching my older brother play on Friday nights while I was still in middle school, I couldn't wait, you know, to get to high school and play in that environment. Man. So that that's that's that's a big part of growing up in my childhood is a football that's still to me. Obviously being able to play fifteen years in the NBA, Friday night football

sticks out to me. Yeah, I mean that like that was the ship. It gives me chills even saying that, Like Friday night football games for everything, man, and that ship was the fun to me, that was the funniest. I love the NBA, don't get me wrong, have fun and cod but then there was nothing like them Friday night high school football games. Now because after you know, the game goes on and everybody's cheering, right, and then everybody's talking about, hey, what we're doing after the game.

You know, we we're gonna meet up at get up at Burger King and sit out in the parking lot, you know what I mean, especially when you got older and you can hang out. Man, that was that was the deal man. So we wasn't we wasn't going to burg King. The White boys had the kegs and I had to lead, and he was going to roll up and the joy. But I feel so very decorated. High school career, um USA today all American Mr Football, Ohio. What was your recruiting experience? Like, you know, I think

it came down to Ohio State in Michigan. You being from Ohio, How hard was it to turn down Ohio State and go to Michigan? Really? Not not hard at all. I mentioned my brother, my older brother was a big Michigan fan. And as as I said earlier, man, he was my first you know football, you know, childhood idol and something. For some reason, he fell in love with Michigan. And I was like, man, you like Michigan. I like Michigan, you know, And so when it came down and recruiting, um,

I looked at Ohio State, the rival, you know. So it was like I'm not going to the rival, you know what I mean. So I took my my college business to North of Dame and uh, the Miami, the Hurricanes, you know, down in South Florida. But but in my mind, I think I was just always a Wolverine, you know. So I mean I got of course letters from everywhere. You know, Yeah, Ohio State recruited me, but it was like that was one school and I just felt like, uh, that's why the rivalry to me is is so huge.

Is because like that that determined where I went to school, that it was the rivalry, you know what I mean. So that's why it's it's so upsetting away our games have gone against them, you know, the last fifteen sixteen years. But yeah, so Michigan was always you know, at the top of the list, and you know, when that opportunity came, man, it was like this, this is it. That's where I'm gonna be. So you were very talented running back and crossed over to dB at Michigan. Was that a tough transition?

Did you want to play running back still or you were good with playing dB. That was a business decision. Man had issues with my knees as a running back, and then you know, every year, you know, my knees would um swell up. You know, there was times when I would have to you know, go get my knee drained before the game, and I was like, I was like yeah. I was like, I don't know if it would be able to you know, do this long term. And so I played. I played both sides and the

ball played defense as well. So when it came time to go to college, I remember telling, you know, the my my recruiter at the time. You know, he was talking about getting me up there and you know, get me actlimated and talking about you know, me being an offensive weapon. I'm like, hey man, I'm gonna play defense. So he was like what really, Really, I was like, yeah, man,

I'm gonna play defense, man. And um, you know part of part of that too was when you think about it, you guys mentioned Dion Dn was like, you know, the first defensive back that that really demanded. Hey man, y'all gotta pay me to come out here and do this thing. So then at that point, man, we was calling you baby Dean at Yeah. Yeah. So it was like, man, you know what, I don't have to play offense or to get a big pay day in the NFL. I

can go play defensive. So let me let me jump on the other side and let me try to have some longevity in the game and not have my knees toward up every week. And so that was that was the reason why I switched over there to the defensive side. So what was that experience like in Michigan? Obviously a historical program. Uh, you know, you guys went to a national championship or won a national championship. What was the experience of being a Wolverine life? Man? It was? It

was It was lovely, man. I mean, this is this is the first time uh that you you know, kind of leave home and you're kind of you know, you you're your own man, you know you you know, you go up there. Of course we had to stay in the dorms in the first two years, um, but you're kind of making decisions on your own now, man, your mom ain and you know, telling you to come downstairs and get ready for this and that and all that stuff.

So it was a great experience to be around. You know, your class of freshman that are coming in, and all of you guys are basically just as kids, man, kind of navigating life, you know, kind of kind of learning the ropes man of you, kind of having that type of freedom. But then playing for a big time program. You know, the first time I ran out into the stadium, uh as as it. You know, we came out for warm ups and then when you come out for the actual game and it was full, Like, man, I lost

my breath. Man, I was like, oh man, I'm in this thing. They're like, whoof you know what I mean? So it was it was a great experience, man, and we did you know, eventually you get to that championship game my junior year, which really just capped it off. Man,

just capt off a great experience. So I loved my time in inn Arbor, so big ten Freshman of the Year, sophomore year, you achieve All American honors, and then your junior year you pick up that heisman over Peyton Manning and get a chance to share the national championship with Nebraska. What was that final season? Like? It was crazy, you know, but I'll get to the championship part. But you know,

coming off of my my sophomore year. You know, we we lost a couple of close games man, that we that I feel like we shouldn't have lost, and that all of a sudden, people just really start, you know, crushing Michigan. And I remember one one sports commentator called us um they said to him and Michigan still for mediocre, And dude, you want to talk about you want to talk about burning? You want to talk about burning? Man.

So I remember man going into that, uh to that season, and I just said to myself, you know what I'm about to show these guys, man, how how we gonna work, How we gonna work the entire offseason? Man? And so I just went out there, man, focus, and throughout throughout that season, I felt like everybody kind of you know, fed off what people were saying about us. But then at the same time, we went out there and put the work in and we end up, you know, of course,

going undefeated. You know, come down to the our last game playing against you know, Ohio State, and need to get that win. And always felt like, man, I my my my college experience won't be fulfilled the right way if I don't go out without going to the Rose Bowl, you gotta go to the Rose Bowl, and so finally

gotta come. I got to Man. So finally achieved that, Man, and got out there, played against Washington State, Man and got got a chance to hold that trophy up as a number one team in the country, man, and that was that was everything to me. It's to me, it's all about. All of the individual stuff I was able to achieve is great, but Man, when you can hold that trophy up man as the best team you know in the country, Man, that's to me, that's what it's

all about. When you talk about making a business decision going to Michigan to play defense, and then you talk about all the ship y'all had to hear after your sophomore season, did that play into you wanted to get more involved on the offensive in your junior year being apart returner in the receiver at times. Yeah. So after my my freshman year, we had, uh two receivers um a money tumor. You guys do money and mercury hags and those who are starting receivers and those guys were leaving.

So my my sophomore year, you know, I approached you know, the coach and I was like, you know what, we got two of our best guys leaving. Man, you might need a little help over there, man, but I'll go out on the outside. Man. You know what you think about be playing some receiver and uh, he was like, yeah, you know, you know, let me think about it. So then it gave me a couple of plays in spring ball, and uh, I made you know, one one quick, like a little quick hitch and you know, made a guy

missing up the sideline. I think the coach is like, yeah, I think we we can do something with that. Man. So uh, you know, my my road increased just a little bit. You know, my junior year, made some timely plays on offense, but it was it was it was all to just help the team win. I just I just wanted to win the championship. Man, I don't care how I got it done. So you end up beating out Peyton Manning um for the Heisman that year, a rarely awarded that is that is awarded to the defense.

How confident were you? I know, obviously winning is most important, but but but what was how was your confidence going into that Heisman situation? Knowing how good Peyton Manning was on the other side, of the ball, and the Heisman normally goes to an offensive no confidence, no confidence, you know, not that not that I now, I thought I should win. But you know, if you if you go back to that season and you, um, you go back to everything

that was written or said about you know, Payton. I think he could have he could have left early, I believe and going to the NFL. But he came back for his senior year, and that was kind of what people were talking about. Oh, he's coming back to win the Heisman Trophy and basically it was his trophy at that point to lose, like he was gonna win it. And so every week it was it was paid Man and Payton Manning. Um. Kind of midway through then I started to pick up some traction, you know, as as

being the best player in the country. Um. And I remember getting to New York and and I was sitting in um the car going to the hotel, and it was just this this huge, you know, four page article and picture of Peyton Man and I was like, god, man, I'm just I'm just gonna be up here. Yeah, I done, man, I'm gonna be up here for a couple of days. Man.

And that's and that's gonna be it. But you know, to be in that moment, and you know, sitting there, you know, in that panel, I got my man Randy Moss to my right, you know, paging and Ryan Leaf and you know, I always, you know, share this story that you know they said my name. You know, um uh the guy's name was Rudy Riska. You know, he's like from Michigan, and you know I heard it and I was like, oh, you know, my mind is turning. It's happening all fast, but in my mind is like

slow motion, like did he say? Did he say from Michigan? And uh, Randy's on my right, and Randy just he kind of gave me a nudge, man like get up. I was like, oh, snap, man, I just wouldn't. I was like, man, this is what's up? Man. So I didn't. I didn't have a speech prepared, man, none of that. Man. I just got to get up there and wing it. But to think, you know what I mean, the dB took it from Randy ya credible, Peyton Manning who was incredible, and Ryan Lepho was a great college player. For dB

to get that award, that's huge. Yeah, don't happen. Man, only one, It's only one, baby, It's only one, right, the fourth pick to the Oakland Raiders. What was that experience? Like? It was great. You know, I got to get a chance to go, you know, to the draft, you know, bring your family up there. Um, you know, it was you know, everybody was saying that, you know, I was gonna be, you know, the fourth pig to the Raiders.

But then there was you know, there was some rumblings that maybe the Raiders might trade out of it, and so then all of a sudden, at the last minute, you're kind of like, oh, man, I could I could I could actually be sitting here for a while. The Raiders don't pick me at four, you know what I mean.

But boom, you get that call, man, and that wait in that green room, and uh, I mean it's just yeah, I don't I don't even know how you explain that, man, because you know, you grew up watching, you know, the NFL, and you know, hoping one day maybe you get a chance to play it in all of us, and you get that call and it's like it's solidified, like, man, hey, man, you're going into the NFL, you know, And so to be able to get drafted by you know, a story franchise,

you know, Al Davis, the Silver and Black, you know, the Oakland Raiders, Tim Brown, Howie Long. Willie Brown was like, and I don't I don't really know you know the history at this point, like like I do now, but you know, once I got in there and kind of got you know, immersed in it, it was like, Man, I'm in. I'm a I'm a Raider, you know what I mean? So yeah, man, So what was that experience?

Like Jack and I got a chance to That's where you know, Jack and obviously knew each other playing, but we became brothers when we played in Oakland together for the Warriors. Talk to us about what that city was like, an energy around the town because sports is everything to the fans. Yeah, man, that town love is deep, man. That the town love is deep, man. And they absolutely

loved the Oakland Raiders. Man. And there's there's there's a you know, there's a like you said, you guys played there, man, So there's a there's an energy there, um that you just don't catch a lot of other places. Man. You know when you when you walk into that stadium, man on game day and you know, you see the silver and black, you see the black hole. You know, you see them guys, you see the fans in the stands

man ready to root their team. Oh man, it's like you can yeah yeah, yeah, yeah they will, they will, you know, we we will come out of games man and they say, hey, man, something happened to Buddy in the bathroom, and we'll be like they're getting down right. So it's kind of they came to down as the years went on. But man, when hey, when I got there, Man, don't don't come in there, man with that other jersey on talking slip. Sometimes you ain't even gotta talk. Sometimes

you just gotta have that. It could be it could be the wrong day, straight up. Any crazy stories you remember from your time kind of either on or off the field that we're just like, yo, I mean, this is what the NFL is like. Um, you know, I think probably like just off the top of my head, like you know, being being you know, going on the

way games. You know, everybody, you know, you brought your you know, your favorite beverage, you know what I mean, And a lot of times, a lot of times coming home from them games man, you know, when when it gets the flowing. You know, a lot of those real emotions come out, man. And you know times when guys was getting heated on the plane. Man, all of a sudden, man to step off that bus back at the facilities, and it's like, oh, these cats in the NFL ain't

playing around, you know what I mean? So so yeah that they the NFL man to get real on you. We have some crazy uh returning to Oakland story. Remember remember that time we was going to my place, Jacket and uh, we was in my truck and Beaty was talking about who's riding with us? Yeah, yeah, and he blew my mind when he said Biggie he said, he said, he said, big what's cheering for us? And when he was getting off the elebody, he said, yeah a stack park two. Come on, hey, this is when this this

is we was making our we believe. I gotta just a random mass story. So I remember my freshman year in u c l A. Was night and you came to u c l A. And he was working with bad and I happened to just go over Beata's house this one this one time, and I come in and I fanned out like I saw you, and then I backed away for a little bit. I said, does that

motherfucking Charles, what's something there? Sitting on Baron's couch? Like, I tripped out because I'm a huge, huge football fan and came in and you was kicking and you was cool as a fan man, just quiet to yourself, but just a real cool dude. So I remember meeting you my freshman year at u c l A because you was kicking it with bearn. But you know, we got a lot of crazy ass Baron David stories, but we'll save those. Remember that story, man, Yeah, no, that was crazy.

So you win Defensive Rookie of the Year Pro Bowl soon after all Pro playing sixteen years, there's I guess it's more in the NBA now, is that this management and we kind of you know, we resting all this up. But for you to consistently play sixteen games every season in such a physical sport, I mean, we just got to commend you for that, man, because that that ship

is tough to do. You know, we play basketball, it's a little bit physical, but to be out there every single day and suit up as a football player, man, that that that that that's that's tough to do. You know, it's It's It's funny you say that because you know, I sit back I watched games now, or if I'm at a game and I'm on the sideline and you know, guys are out there giving it everything they've gotten. All of a sudden, there's a tackle that's near you, and I can I can hear the contact, I see the

physicalness of the game. And I sit there and I think to myself, Man, how in the hell did you do this for so long? You know, getting up every week, man, you know, practice and you know, playing on Sundays and sometimes you know, you you know, you get up on Sunday morning, you're still feeling last Sunday, you know, um, and the one thing that gets you through, you know, going back to the fans and walking out into the

walking out into the stadium. Like once you get out there into that stadium, man, sometimes that energy from the crowd hits you, man, and that's you That's what you need, you know. Otherwise, man, you'll be trying to stay back in the in the hotel room and sleep it off. But yeah, it's it's a tough game, man, But you know what, when you love it, you know, and you you you're fighting for a chance to win the championship. Man,

you'll run through a wall? Can you really quit? Kind of walk us through because like I said to me, being a fan of the game, my brother getting a chance to play some semi pro football. What's your week is like? Because your guys bodies are really beat up and like you just said, without that adrenaline sometimes ship you don't know where you would be. So what is your routine? So if you play on Sunday, walk us through the week leading up to the following Sunday games over.

You know, now it's on to the next opponent. But what you're doing is on that Monday, you're going and you'll watch film of the game you just played, you know, kind of go over. Um. You know, any corrections that that the coaches have seen, you know, they'll give you a grade, you know, as far as how you perform, whether or not you missed any assignment. So you I have some if you got a bunch of red checkmarks on,

it's like school, your ads had a bad day. Um. So then you know, after that, either either before or after that, you know, you get your workout in, you know, you know, try to you know, just trying to work through everything man and keep yourself mobile. And then uh, you know after that, you know, usually mondy usually Tuesdays or your days off, So between Monday and Tuesday you're trying to figure out, you know, when you're gonna try to get your massage in and all that stuff man,

and try to you know, work some of that stuff out. Wednesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays are your long practice. Usually Wednesdays are you know, first and you go over first and second down. Um, so that that day is gonna be long. You're gonna get out of there maybe five, you know, five thirty or so. Um, Thursday is gonna kind of be the

same thing. You're gonna go over your third down and then you know, kind of marry some some some red zone which will have on Friday, and then some still some first and second down stuff, but it's mainly you know, you focus on that third down and trying to get off the football field. So that's gonna be another long day five five thirty. Then Friday row around, Uh, Friday,

you're gonna go over red zone. You know, it's gonna be more of a walk through tempo for portions of it, and then you'll get into uh really some some game management type stuff. Uh so, but it's a shorter day. You know, you probably get out of there. You know, everything will be done probably one thirty two o'clock on Saturday. You're gonna walk through in the morning, you know, meet

you know, watching films. It's gonna be pretty light. And then uh uh Saturday night you meet up at the hotel and you also you go through your individual meetings, uh team meeting, you know, uh pregame or nightly before the game, meal or whatnot. Curfew at eleven and then man, you're back at it again on Sunday, ready to roll. Let me touch on that that that curfew because you know, as basketball players, we didn't have the I guess maybe the the structure from a standpoint, and you guys are

really in there all day. When you go at facility, you in there in the morning and like you said, five thirty, you know, like a real like a real work yeah nine if I know, Yeah, yeah, we're going there. We get our extra shots, we watch film, we get stretched, we left, we do all that ship we practice. We're still out of there and no more than three hours sometimes, but Nellie, we mother be at the end and out

that bitch in forty five minutes sometimes. But to have that kind of like curfew, And did you guys have roommates? It was that only for the players that weren't like superstars. How did that ship work? Some guys like the room on the road. Um, I had my own room when you first came in, like rookie, I think rookies second year of players, you had to have a roommate. But if you if you older in the game, you stay in the room by yourself. So yeah, okay, I couldn't

imagine having no ruck. Couldn't get nothing off on the road right now. I couldn't have done that spen speaking of y'all, man, I know, I know y'all don't have curfew. I lived in Atlanta for about eight years. Man, I remember, man, so you've seen Jack an, I've seen Jack, seen Jack a few times. I've seen him a few times, man. And uh, I remember being out one night. Man, it's it's five six and on it. Man, I see my man, hey, hey eyes out there and you know, at the club, man,

and like, damn this man, how's he got a game tomorrow? Man? Man? Hey, I got out there and gave the people forty or five points. Man, I said, she, well, you know what he's doing. You know what he's doing. Some of us canna do it because I always wanted that I would hear the curfew out here, the roommates, and then you are on the flip side with us, you know, that whole Warrior team. We would be out till the sun came up sometimes and still have a game that night,

and still went hard the whole night. Like I said, it was just so much different to where, like I said, the Strug, not that we were we were actually while, but I'm saying as far as the structure and the rules and the regulations, we didn't have that kind of ship. You know. Once we got to the league, it was like, like you say, like you're real, like you really so everything you on your own, doing whatever you gotta do,

and some people can handle in. Some came right right and and to really, I mean, I think that freedom, that leash that they give you. Some of fucker's hating themselves. But because like you said, if you can't you out here doing whatever and you're not perform them and on Sunday or when the ball goes up at seven for us. You hanging yourself, no doubt about it. Talk about you was able to turn that that that a leash into

a motherfucking gold change jack assholes that cash. So what what was it like you as a player evolving into the one of the best defensive players of the game, your team evolving into a contender all why under John gruten Yeah, man, it's it's really to me, it's about experience. You know, the more you play, um, I think, the better you get, the more understanding of the game, the more time you in certain situations, the better you get,

the more times you see things, the better you get. Um. So I just you know, as a player, you know, being able to come in as a rookie and start and play sixteen games, I felt like, I feel like for any player, man, from your first year to your second year, it should be your biggest your biggest jump if you're able to play, you know, sixteen games. So, um, I was thrown into the fire, you know, in the NFL, man, and which was great for me because I wanted to

be out there anyway. But we we we built the team man Grouten and um you know, our gym and everything they started building building that contender, you know, bringing in some pieces, you know, and putting them in the right places. You know. We were a veteran team, you know that. So we had Tim Brown who was there when I already got there. Then Jerry Rice came outside linebacker named William Thomas, and you know, Eric Allen was there.

So we had some veteran guys. And then we added some pieces man that you know, got us to to being a contender in the league. And so you know, I was around some some guys man, like some real lives, you know, legends man, Eric Turner, Eric Allen, you know. Then rich Gannon came in and so I was, I was Jerry right, man, come on, man, Charlie Garner, my boy, Charlie Man. So I as yeah, man, So I had some real that has some real dudes. I felt like

I couldn't help but get better. So in two thousand, uh twelve and fourth season, you guys losing the a f C Championship to the Ravens two thousand one, you guys go ten and six meat the Jets in the wild card go to New England two thousand. Tell me what you remember about this day, because I remember it was crazy I don't know where we're at, but we were walking through the airport and we caught the end

of this game. January nine two two Raiders at the Patriots the snow game and where a new rule was created on the fly because of a bullshit call. Talked to us about what happened, Uh, that particular play with Tom Brady, which eventually led them to go on to win their first Super Yeah, they pulled that thing out of thin air. Man. Uh, but you know, I just remember, um. You know, they called a blitz. You know, I was, I was playing it on the on the inside. I

was playing nickel. They called a blitz and uh, you know, I'm coming off that that left side. He don't see me coming, you know, he don't he don't know him coming. And I could see him, you know, bring that ball this way because he was about to throw it, and then he brought it back. And right as he was bringing that thing back, boom, I'm slapping the ball. Now the game The game is over, you know what I'm saying.

Because there was a think a minute and fifty two seconds left or some something crazy like that, and all we had to do was kneel on the ball. And we're gonna run the clock out, boom, game over. We move on. I think we would have played Pittsburgh and we had our shot at U you know, getting to the super Bowl at that point. And so we get to the sideline and and they say it's under two minutes. So then it's a it's a booth review, right automatic,

and so but we're like, it's so fun. But what they're looking at it, what they're looking at it anywhere, you know what I mean. And so it seemed like it took a lifetime for them to come back with a decision. So we're all sitting on the sideline like what what would be taking so long? The man FROMB with the ball and not the ball out we recovered

like game over. And so he comes back, you know with the quarterback's hand was going forward, you know, tug rule, and so man, you could have you could have you could have you could have pushed me over, man with with with your with with your index finger. Man just just pushed me down. Man, you talk about you're talking about the sideline deflated. Man, You guys play sports, man, you know how you know how momentum uh affects your team, whether you have it or if you don't have it,

and it just man, it just family crushes, man. And so they end up going down and believe you know, kicking the field goal, tying tying it up, and then all of a sudden, now went overtime, and we're I'll be honest, man, I think we're still trying to figure out how are we in overtime? You know? Man, this game, this game ships been over. And then they drove down far enough and kick a field goal um to win the game. Man. And that was that. Man. I just

I was devastating. I was hurt, you know. I think when you know it, man, when you put when you put your heart and soul into something and you feel like he gets taken from you, like not faring squarely, like not just not just head up. Man, that hurts. Man. That's the worst part, especially for you guys because you guys don't play as many games as us. But anytime, like you said, you put everything into it and it's and it's out of your hands, it's taken from like

you lose, you lose a game. That ship is hard to swallow. But when that ship is taken from you with the with with with the circumstances that were on the line for you guys in that particular game. And like I said, I remember being in the airport. We were at U C. L A, and we're come. We had just finished the game, maybe in Arizona, so that like the whole little terminal was watching this motherfucking game and everyone's like what wait, wait, what just they what?

They gave him the ball back? Like we were all trimmling out, like how did that happen? But that had to be tough, man, And like I said, that was the first time they get a chance to go on and get their first Super Bowl. So two thousand two, Um, Gruden moves on to Tampa Bay. How did that go down? Did you have any sense that you know, there was there was some rumblings in the front office between him and the front office or was it a random move? What happened? Yeah? I mean I don't, I don't. I don't.

I still don't really truly understand how it went down. But I remember I think I was I think I was at home, Um, and somebody gave me a car. They were like, hey, uh you your team just traded gihn Grouten to to Tampa and and uh, I was like traded. I was like, you can't. You can't trade a coach, you know what I'm saying, Like like that was that was so foreign to me, Like they traded John grow And I was like, I don't even know

what you're talking about. I don't even understand that. And so then all of a sudden, man, you know, you get, you get. You go over to the facilities like, yeah, man, Groom is gone, Like what the like, we just we just we got a good team. We just got beat by such and such, you know, so we're basically gonna have the same team coming back, and you trade the coach, come on, man. So that was that was just uh, I don't know, that was straight out of the Twilight zone. Man.

I still don't quite understand. Man, what what may al at that time say, you know, let's let's trade Grooden. And then after that, man, we went to the Super Bowl, played Grooden in the Super Bowl, and we know how that went down. Man, it got everly for us out there, but it was it was tough. But talk to us about that though, because I mean in two thousand two when he left, that was the first time you used

to stay in. Your first real injury, you had a shoulder injury that you know had you missed eight games, also the leg injury. You come back, You guys win the a f C. You guys are facing your former coach the very next year in the Super Bowl. What went wrong that week? I remember you're sending what was the baron Robinson Center was in Mexico or some ship? So like, what what did you feel the energy was off for? You? Feel like you guys were all the

way locked in um for that particular matchup. Or was the energy off? And that Tampa Bay defense was a problem. Now tele based defense was good, but we felt like we had the team that could beat him. But we we feel, you know a lot of us feel like, you know, our game plan ended up. You know, our coach at the time ended up switching the game plan, you know, last minute, and it really takes you to you know, talk to Tim Brown who played on the offense and kind of right, get in get into the

details of that. But yeah, Bary Robbins later in the week ended up. Um, you know, I don't know where he I don't know where he was, you know, but all of a sudden, you hear these whispers. Hey man, Baron Robbins is missing. Now, Barry Robbins, people don't really remember. He's probably he's probably the best center in football, and now that's facts. I probably best center in football. And

so to lose him, you know, it hurt. But as long as we were able to if we would have stuck to our game plan, I think we would have been fine. So when we get out to that game, you know a lot of what we did offensively was to the outside. What Tampa Bay runs Tampa two, So you can't you're not gonna beat them to the sideline. Were running because they are fast defense. Derek Brooks in the middle east sideline, the sideline, sapping them. Boys, they coming.

You have to really attack them, like up the middle, and we waited way too late. And late in the game we scored, you know a couple of touchdowns by hitting them up the middle of the field, but it was too late. We had thrown two interceptions. By that time, they had ran maybe two interceptions back for touchdowns. Something crazy. Then they scored another one on defense. Before you know it, man,

we were down twenty one points and something crazy. I remember that because that to yeall won the NBA Championship, and I remember celebrating with Tampa Bay and I was looking at their defense. Bro. That's why I said that Warren Sapp, David dig Brooks, McFarland, they had some animals on their defense. Bro. Yeah, it was fast, tast flowing defense. Man. Take that away from See. I thought the Raiders had the offense though they had Rich Getting, they had the receivers.

Had you still had Garner? Didn't you garner that Wheatley? Yeah? Yeah, I thought, I see that's what I thought. Like I said, they had a hell of a defense, but I thought that offense matched up well with them, you know, well enough to beat them. But you know, it happened. So the next three seasons kind of go up in the air, riddled the injury. You signed a seven year deal with Green Bay. Was that a tough decision the Raiders or was the time you felt like your time was up

to make a move. Yeah? They the Raiders had franchised me twice. Um at that point and then after that scene with your money, playing with your money, and then after that season, um, I believe I forget who the GM was at the time. I think he made a statement that you know, there was no value of bringing me back to the Raiders. So it was like, all right, well the rights on the wall. I got to get up out of here. So that offseason, you know, I'm

a free agent and uh, you know I was. I was trying to get to Tampa because Groom was there, right, so he's my coach. I'm trying to get to Tampa. Uh. That didn't work out. So then it was Jacksonville had a great defense. I was then I was My focus was on Jacksonville. They said they didn't need a corner, like damn. Uh. So then you know, I'm trying for for a few other teams and then all of a sudden, you know, green Bay start reaching out. Um, and you know,

I was very reluctant. You know, I've never had any plans on going to green Bay. But green Bay they made the effort, and uh, you know, they made an offer that it was like, hey, you know what I'm saying, I want to I know, I want to play football, you know what I mean, And they made me a great offer. It was like, all right, well, you know what, I'm going to Green Bay and see what happens. And then you know, I got there, man, and all of a sudden, you know, people start trying me out there

on the field, and then the interceptions start rolling in. Man, it was it was all good from there. So we wanted to know what was it like. You know, obviously Lambeau was a historic field. There's so much tradition to history. As cold as a motherfucker out there. What was it like playing like called the Lambeau your homes. It's interesting because we talked about growing up in my hometown and you know, having the stadium kind of being right in

the center of the community. That's the way Green Bay was, and so it kind of felt like, you know, growing up, it felt like you know that Friday night light, this type of field, you know what I mean when you know, the families got together and you walked to the football game and tell five dollar tail gating signs and people's driveway you need to park, you park right here, you walk to the game, and you know, til gating was was live and uh, you know, I remember, um, they

have a team scrimmage every year and I remember going to this scrimmage. This this is you know, in training camp and it was seventy two thousand people there for the scrimmage, and we didn't even we didn't even really going. We ain't going really live live. I mean it's live, but it ain't. I was like, oh, man, okay, this is this, this this is cool, right, ain't there meet up meet up at the game? Man? Yeah? So um so yeah man, it ended up, um, you know, being

a great experience. It took me a while to kind of, you know, get acclimated to it, you know, because I was reluctant to go there. Um. But once I just got got there, you know, kind of settled down and started making plays. Um had some young guys with me, man, some young dogs you know back there in the secondary who um was out there making plays too. So then

we just started having fun, man. And so that's that to me, Man, it made all the difference, you know, settling down in the community and then having fun on the football field. Man. It was all good from there, absolutely. So like you said, your first year, they thought you had lost a step and you had to funk around and lead the league and intersect pans where eight interceptions

that had to what was that feeling like? You know what I mean, had had battled a little bit go to a place you're really sure with, but once you got your footing, you come out like like nothing could changed. Was it was that refreshing obviously to kind of let you know, okay, let's go, we're here. Yeah. I was like que man messed around and hit a triple double on him, you know what I mean? Uh, you know you I had to hear. I had to hear all

of the talk. You know. Of course, you know I did have some injuries, like you mentioned, but everybody was talking about, hey, you know, he's lost the step. And I remember one one, uh, like I forget what it was. Magazine had me raided like the two hundred something player in the league, and that reminded me of the mediocre Michigan. So I was like, man, we can't have that. We can't have that on my have that on my name, man.

So um, you know, the competition, as far as I was talking about the young fellas on the team, man, we like really started competing man in practice, and you know, I was trying to let these guys know, Man, hey, you know, when you get out on the field, man, you're gonna see everything you saw on film. And let's start getting this ball. So we started having a lot of competition and it just made the game fun. And so we just continue to get better and better as

a group. Um and I played with you know, um Brett Farr was there at first. So my second year there, you know, we make it to the championship game, you know, end up losing to the Giants, but you know, we knew we had good players, you know on that team man, to where we were going to be competitive. That's definitely what the next thing I was gonna ask you was

seeing kind of the end for Brett Farr. Who was you know at the time there everything, Uh, did you see what I guess the coachings have starred in Aaron Rodgers, no question and no question, no question. I think we we we all knew it. Man. I think the one thing was too it was like, you know Brett, Uh for those couple of years, you know, he didn't know if he was coming back or not coming back. Uh, And so everybody was kind of you know figured out that,

you know, what was gonna do. But in the back of our mind we were like if he if he leaves, I think we're gonna be all right, man, because we we gotta do it over there that's sitting behind him. Man, they can chuck that thing around. Man. And he had I mean you talked about a live arm and throwing on throwing throwing dimes on the run and accurate as ever. Man. We definitely, we definitely saw it. What was the dynamic like between what what was there? Was it smooth or

what was that dynamic light between Farv and Rogers? Yeah, I think those two had their had their friction early on. I think when you look at uh, I remember a couple of years ago when um, the Steelers brought in a backup of Ben Roethlisberger and he was mad because they brought in the backup. You know what I'm saying. It's like, hey man, I'm still here. Why we don't need a backup quarterback? Um? I think they I think they had that dynamic and I think, uh, you know,

Brett took a little bit of offense to that. I think Brett said something along the lines of, you know, he don't need to, you know, help the next guy. Um, you know that you bring in. You know his thought was, Man, I'm the quarterback, you brought him in, You help him, you know what I mean? Um? So you didn't like for me, you know, being on the defensive side, you really don't see all that goes on with those guys

because they have their meetings or whatnot. But I know they did have, you know, a rocky start, which I think since then have kind of mended those, uh those problems. M h yeah, I mean it happens. So is Aaron Rodgers first season two thousand and eight. That's his first year, so there's no playoffs that year. Uh oh nine, you guys, uh losing the wild card to the Cardinals two thousand and ten. The road to the super Bowl at ten and sixth season, but get hot at the right time.

You guys beat the Eagles in the wild card, Falcons in the division uh NFC championship, you beat the Bears, and then you face the Steelers in the super Bowl. Talk to us about your second time around in the Super Bowl. What's the second time around like for you? Yeah, I finally got back, man. You know, it's hard to get there. That's that's what I learned. She's already to

get to that super Bowl. Um, but you know, we were coming off a season you mentioned two thousand nine that was our best team actually, uh and we we screwed that off in the playoffs against Arizona. But we came back you know that next season, man, knowing that, you know, we had basically the same players. Man, we we got to get it done this particular season. And then it was crazy is that throughout that season, injury after injury hit that team. Man, we end up having

six team players. I think it was on I R. And I'm talking about some dogs. You guys know, Jamachael Finley. Jamachael Finley was our tight end man. He was a matchup nightmare for people. Uh, he ended up getting hurt. So we had some real dogs that got hurt. Um, And so we kind of we kind of limped along a little bit, you know, through the season. And I remember we had to win our last two games just to have the opportunity to get in. But then we

also needed some help. So what was crazy is that? Um, I don't know if you guys remember that punt return that de Sean Jackson ran back against Jackson. Yeah, we we needed them to win that game and they won the game. Of course, we had to win our two, but in that pump return was fucking it. He took off and yeah, you know, so I mean this this this game is crazy that way, and so we kind of we kind of you know, but we go in.

We lived through the season, but we go into the playoffs hot because we beat we had to beat New York, we had to beat Chicago, and then we're the road team, were the sixth seed. But our confidence at that point was so high. It was so high, man, we knew it didn't matter what we just said to ourselves. Man, if they let us in, it's home and we we

we we ran through that thing. Man. So what was it like to finally be able to call yourself as a super Bowl champion after you know, thinking you're gonna get it the first time, it doesn't go your way the same time around the chart? Yeah, you know, I got a tattoo man after that man with the Lombardi Trophy that says my rightful place in history. That's that's that's how I feel about that. You know, I just I could never accept, you know, just like I mentioned

college that I couldn't win. I couldn't leave without a championship. I couldn't play the NFL. I couldn't play my career man and not have a championship. I just I would have never accepted the fact that I played how many other years and never got to the show and win it like that would have been that would have been unacceptable, you know. So um to finally you know, be able to hold up the Lombardi Trophy man and get that win, Man,

that was everything. Two thousand and eleven, Aaron Rodgers goes crazy. You guys go fifteen and one. He thought forty five touchdowns only six picks yards. As a someone who played offense early in your career, what was it like to be able to sit back and just watch this dude every single day do what he did. It's a monster, man, He's a monster. I think I think it was. It's. Um it's one of those things where for our team

we became too reliable on that. Um. I think that I think the our our staff even did that, you know, as far as not bringing in you know, some proper, proper pieces defensively to keep up, but what he was doing offensively. So we always felt like, you know, for us on our end, if things weren't going well, all right,

we got a rod He's gonna bring it home. But you know, after a while, man, that that that that wears off and when you talk about that year he goes off, right, we still get to the to the game against the Giants and they're they're the Giants are again and they beat us again on their way to the super Bowl. So but but sitting back and being able to watch him, man, it's it's like art. It's an art for man, it's watching art, you know, watching him be able to just you know, paint all over

that field. Man. I love watching that dude play. Two twelve was your last year in Green Bay, back to the Raiders. What took you back back to the Bay? Man, Yeah, back to the Bay. It was a homecoming. You know. I left there. Never really talked to anybody in the organization. It was just it was like it was it was over. It was done. And so when when that offseason came around, I'm a free agent, you know, I took I went out to Denver, went out to San Francisco, went out

to Denver. I really thought I would actually sign with one of those teams because I was trying to get signed, man, get myself ready to play, and it didn't happen. And then I remember Zach Crockett Zach was working for the Raiders. Zach called me, he said, hey, Man, come on home. I was like, what you're talking about, was Zach? He's like, Man, come on home, Man, you need to come on out here.

Signed back and I was like, um okay. My wheels started turning, and so then uh set up the visit man and I got out there, Man and and Raider fans that were sitting outside the facility man all day waiting for me to get Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy. That's that's why the players it was. It was crazy love. Man and I got out and I just remember people saying, Man, hey, man, see what we

you know the social media, we're staying outside. Uh, and you ain't leaving without signing and the man, and I'll be damn man if I didn't, if I didn't get a deal done with those guys man and signed with the Raiders. So it was it was it was special, man, because I didn't know how. I didn't know how the fans were gonna take it, the news that I was coming back out there, none of that. I had no clue because I hadn't really I hadn't had that interaction. And when I when when that happened. Man, my my

my blood was boiling. Man, I was it was like, man, this this is this, this feels good, you know what I mean. Yeah, obviously it didn't help to be oxen in a little bit warmer weather to you know it getting you know it. So when you think about it, man, eighteen years in the NFL. Eleven of those eighteen years, you played all sixteen games. When did you know it was time? Did your body start breaking down? Did your mind start wondering? When did you know it was time

for me to hang it up? So my last year, the first game to see reason, uh, dislocated my shoulder and then the third game of the season, I was sustained a grade to mc L. So every every week from then on, from the first game of the season, I was fighting mentally to get myself, you know, ready mentally to play the game of football. So so going out there trying to practice, trying to hobble around, you know. Of course they took care of me that they weren't

gonna make me practice the whole time. Uh, Jack del Rio was the coach. They made sure that I could I could go in and you know, come out for walk throughs. Going to the training facilities and do whatever I needed to do to get myself ready. But every every day mentally was a struggle because I was in pain. Man um. I had a physical therapist that I had never used one, like a therapist, you know, for that consistently my whole career. But my last year I used

the physical therapist and that really got me through. But one morning I woke up in Detroit and uh, I said, man, I don't want to play no more. And it was like the tenth game of the season. It was November fift I believe, two thousand fifteen, and uh, I just I looked out the window was snowing, and I was like, man, if they called the game right now, I'd be the happiest man in the world. And that's what I knew. I knew right there, and I was like, it's over.

And so I ended up playing I think six more games, and I was really in crews control, you know. I was just I was just I was playing the game because I played it for so long. But I was but I was done. I was I was done. So I played six games retired, you know what I mean. Uh, But but that was that was it. That was the moment. Man, I remember it like it was yesterday. People don't know and if you mentally not there, that's when it starts

getting dangerou, especially in your sport. Yeah. Yeah, so you transition. How did broadcasting come about? It kind of fell on me in Jack's lap. It was something that we didn't really think about, and all of a sudden, Oh, you guys are good at this. How did it happen? Uh?

In your path? Well? What what? What I didn't know is that you know, networks, they they're looking for they're looking for guys, you know, so they they were probably looking for you, but you don't know they're looking for you, right, So you know, there were some articles that came out that hey, man, this these are the guys that may be good on television, and I was like, man, you know, I've never even talked to anybody about that, you know. Um,

So then we started. I got an agent, We started talking to uh, some of the different networks, man, and had a couple of meetings, and then all of a sudden, before you know it, right after that season, man, I was signed to ESPN and I was working you know, I signed a three year deal with ESPN. And working for the Wide World Leader in sports Man, it was crazy like it was. It's kind of like you guys, I didn't I didn't have a clue. That was it. So next chapter it looks like it's been pretty fun.

You're currently working for Fox Sports, doing a bunch of different shows, working with the NFL. UM you also have some outside interest. Um, how did you get into wine in spirits? Yeah? I got in the wine man from my time out in UH with the Raiders, you know, the training campus in Napa Valley. So I just started drinking wine, you know, while I was out there man, and decided, Man, yeah, I want to I want to

be a part of this, you know, long term. And so I started my own label back in two thousand and five, UH with with with friend of mine out there in Nappa Um. And so we started this label called you know by Charles Woodson UM. So we did that for for extended period period of time, and then about a year ago, I teamed up partner with a supplier out of Passo Robles and so that's the wine I have now, which you guys have, which is to intercept, I'm not much of a wine guy, but I am

a with yes, so I appreciate. Yeah, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go ahead and take a shot to your honor on camera on a ship. Hey, I'm I'm a wine guy. And if y'all, if y'all ever come up with some ports, I'm a port drinker, man, send me a porter, all right, we'll do that. Hey, I'm gonna drink mine out of glad. I see how you doing it. I like how you do it straight at the bottom. I don't got I don't got real sophisticated in my

old age. So he just put yours as you put your pinky as as long as you put your pinky up while you drinking that, you're good. Nice that smooth though, smoothy. I'm definitely a whiskey guy. Opened up the box last night. I'm like, oh, hell, yes, sir, yes, sir. Yeah. So man, I started I started this, Um, I started this deal earlier earlier, right, And so we had our first release about about a month ago, man, and it's uh really well man. People are really enjoying it, and uh, I'm

just I'm just happy man, proud of it. Man. This is this is this is my thing. So we got the wine we got the bourbon. Who knows what's next? Well, you got my address though, So whenever you feel like some whiskey bottles out the Cali baby, I'm gonna make sure I'm gonna rink au love it. What kind of lasting impact you're looking to make with this company we're

being with Spirits first of all. You know, for me, you know, when you're out all the time, you know, you see you know a lot of different uh wine lists, and you know there's always some staples that people have on on wine list. You know there's always a Mandavi, always gonna be a kaymist Um. I want to be in that mix somehow, you know. I want you to be able to go, you know, somewhere in l A wherever you guys at, and I want you to look on go to you know, three or four different restaurants

and you see intercept on those lists. That's that's what we're trying to move to. Bah, you know what I'm saying. And so we're in We're in forty five states now, um looking at being all fifty. But I want to be that. I want to be that staple. I want to be that household uh name. I want people to know intercept. So that's what I'm looking to do. Best of luck with that. Tell me what it means to you.

You've obviously had, you know, the privilege of playing in the NFL for eighteen years, but you're a black business owner. How important is that to you? And what kind of pride does that bring when someone mentions that to you? Yeah, very proud. And I think it's more so um to me, a big deal just because you know, you play in the NFL, and you know, people put you in that box,

you know what I mean. And so for me to be in you know, first you know, the wine business and then now into bourbon, you know, you just break all of those stereotypes. You just kick out of it, you know, you kick out of all those boxes. You know what I'm saying. You make your own way. And I think that and I think that's what it's all about. And I think what it also does, man, is it gives you know, young you know, young kids, young African

African American kids. You know that site of hey, man, here's a black business owner, man doing something that people probably didn't expect him to be doing. Man, I could do it too, you know, man, And I got you gotta see it, see it to believe it. So that's that's what it's all about. Transitioning now to the NBA. Do you watch teams players? If so, who are some of your favorites? Yeah, mainly, Uh, I don't really have a team, so you know, it's it's players that I

that I usually watch. Um, of course, you know you gotta watch Lebron. It's hard not to watch, you know, greatness, you know, living legend in the game. Um, young kid John Morant. You know what I'm saying, is a special kid. Man. I know he was dealing with the injury, but a special player. And then of course, man, you know, it's hard.

It's hard not to watch, you know, k D and his comeback and watching him come out for injury, still out there, lightning up shot a shot shot, shot is still as smooth as ever, and I like, I like stuff out here. Man. You know, people was trying to criticize him, how he's gonna do it with no help, and then he comes back, man and shoots the lights out on the team. Man, So I love that. Man. What's your thoughts on a on the current NBA versus

the NBA when you was growing up. It's just different as far as you know, I grew up watching you know, we watched that documentary documentary with Jordan's and the Bad Boys and and how physical the game was back in the day and what you could get away with, you know, on on the court. Um, that's that's a big difference as far as that's concerned. And then also you know, if you're big, you don't see you don't see no Patrick Ewings no more. You know, down there on the block.

If you Patrick, if you're a Patrick Ewing and you can't step outside on on the three point line in that little corner and and not and not knocked down that corner, three, man, you might well grab that clipboard because you you can't. You can't be on the field because you're gonna have to guard You're gonna have to guard another big out there on on on the perimeter somewhere. And if you can't shoot it, hey man, you're gonna go ahead and get it. Start your coach, start your

coaching career early world. You know, I got the I coached my twins down there twelve. We travel on the country and playing and that's everything I'm teaching them as basketball players. It's almost become position list just for the reason you said there's not there's probably two centers, three maybe, but that you could throw the ball down and get a buck too and be joker. And I'm gonna have a hard time naming that third. But that that that that that game has kind of gone now, you know.

So now everything is more free flowing. Everyone's life size and you've gotta be able to do a little bit of everything. So the game is definitely changed, um similar to how football has changed. I mean, like it doesn't really seem like they get hit no more. And in the NBA, you can't touch no more, you know what I means. So I think obviously it's it's in your game is for player's safety, but it's it's for the

advantage of the offense. They want to see more scoring, they want to see more points, they want to see more touchdowns in the NFL, So it's really kind of changed over the years. And you know, obviously we were lucky enough, all three of us to kind of get the old ship and transition into what the new game looks like for both of our respective sports. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I give the NFL props for you know, are they are trying to, you know, put in measures

to protect the guys. You know certainly understand that. And like you said, you know, coming in when I came came in and then being able to see kind of the other side. I remember my last couple of years and opening before I sustained those injuries, I was like, man, with the way they're doing training camp now and no practices and no past, and I probably complained another five easy, easy, you know what I'm saying. What are your thoughts though?

I always want to know your thoughts of it as it because I think you guys obviously have to adjust the most, and it almost seems like you guys would some I've seen some guys hurt themselves trying to stay safe from hurting from hitting a receiver or hitting a running back because you know, you can't really hit like you used to hit, so from from from a defensive

player's mentality, what what are your thoughts on that? I think what ends up happening sometimes is that guys end up missing plays right because you're you're running, you know, fifteen sixteen miles an hour, you know, going to make a play and make a hit and then all of a sudden in the in the instant, you're trying to think, wait, how do I hit him? Uh? If I if I

hit him here? You know, look so these fines ain't ain't chief fines and they find a guy's thirty forty thousand, So I mean, you out there, you know, sometimes that crosses your mind. And I remember one guy. I remember a guy had a quarterback in his grass. You know, he's getting ready to throw him down and he's waiting for the whistle. He let him go quarterback Ryan for the for the first time, I think. I think it was Green Band and the and the Vikings, I think

it was. And it was like, man, he's thinking about not getting the penalty. Yeah, he let and the guy the quarterback end of running for the first down. So you're running all of these things are running running through your mind. Why are you playing the game instead of just playing the game? And sometimes I think that does hurt guys. All right, man, well this has been a great interview so far. We're coming down the stretch right here with quick hitter's first name to come to mind.

Spit it out, so toughest receiver you ever had to match up with Marvin Harrison. Oh, starving Marvin, one of the great NFL player You wish you could have played with? I wish I could have played with Barry Sanders. Oh great call, great call. Uh, scariest quarterback you had to go up against. Is not the right world, but just just a bad motherfucker, Brady understandable. Three songs on your

pregame playlist. I'll go all eyes on me. Uh jay Z had a song called two two's, I probably would have had uh rd and dirty you g K. Yes, there you go, there you go. You can't go wrong with that on yes, sir. Uh. Five dinner guests that are alive Jesus, Leonardo Da Vin Uh Da vinci Um, Barack Obama, Martin Luther King. Hm, what's that for? That's four? That's four, Muhammad Ali? Are you gonna learn something at that down? Yeah, you don't learn. Jesus, you're not gonna

be the same leaving that done a board man. I want to ease drop on that you're gonna learn today. Alright, final question, your answer. You have to help us with your answer to this question. All right, who do you want to see on all the smoke? Who do I want to see on All the Smoke. Stacy Abrams may have been trying to get on the show too. May have been trying to get on the show here. Yeah, that's a good call. Hey man, seawood Man, thank you for your time. It was an honor to be able

to sit down with you today. Man, we appreciate it. Like I said, you got my address. I'm always ready for that whiskey whenever and the best of luck man with life after. Appreciate it, man, get that whiskey. Dot com is right now. I'm opposed to wine. I'm opposed to wine. That is Hey, that's a rap man. I hope you guys enjoyed another episode of All the Smoke. You can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube, the I Heart Platform, and The Black Effects. See y'all next week.

This is All a Smoke, a production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime