ATS REWIND: Grant Hill | ALL THE SMOKE

Welcome back to All the Smoke, New York City. Yes, yes, yes, our last and final show today. Man, we got a good one. Jack.

I'm happy. This is somebody who I idolize. I've been idolized. I tell him all the time. But I'm gonna let you introduce him.

Before I introduced him. I when I thought of this show, he was one of the first people I hit like, g I need you, and he's like that's when he first started working on the book three years ago, years ago, three years ago, and we finally got him. You see, the book is out now, make sure you pick it up. But we got the one and only, my god big brother, Rent Hill.

I appreciate you. Money is an honor and a privilege.

I appreciate you all. Patience, Come on the book. It took you five years to write. This would have waited for you. It's just an honor to have you on. Let's get right to it. Talk about the book. What it's about.

It's by my life and my journey, you know, going back growing up Duke years Detroit, the injuries, going through that whole ordeal. I felt like getting in the Hall of Fame. That's a moment when you're going to be naturally reflective. You know, we go through life and as an athlete, you gotta go and just like like next you gotta just you don't get a chance to really reflect on what you're doing. But that moment, that celebration, it was like, you know, I need to do this.

It's opening that door, right, really opening that door. And like you said, y'all got the right. Yeah, y'all both stories down the pipeline. Yeah, how do you think you would be in this era your game?

You know, I think, I think with the spacing and then now they've taken a little bit of the physicality out of the game, I think I could. It's just more open. You think about it. Back in the day, you have big guys in the paint clogging up and I like.

That you were still dunking on them though. Yeah, so I mean, you know, you know, g is so nice. You already know that like spacing, Like when you look back, like we were in Detroit, we were having an eighty one A game like we didn't run, we played methodical, we didn't get up and down like it is now.

So yeah, man, and the money.

And the money sit the money crazy.

So but you know, I enjoyed my time. It was it was a different league. The games evolved, the shootings. But I mean there's a lot of things that are better. There's some things I don't like about the current league. But yeah, man, I mean, y'all right here in this era, I would have had some fun, no question.

Five.

Man. You know, look, I'm sorry. I know you play with Draymond.

Every time I see Draymond, I say this, but I'm like Draymond, you checked in the game, I would have been dropped three posted you.

I don't know how he like.

He's like a rim protector and he's in there big man. How tall is he?

Six six?

But he gets it done? Man, I don't you know.

But anyway, it was a different league, man, But yeah, i'd have done all right.

One player you think one player you would want to play with today?

I mean right now, obviously he's getting up there and things are a little bit crazy in l A.

But I would have liked to play with Lebron. Yeah, and nice.

I don't know Lebron like that. I mean, we've always been good, but I don't I'm not in his circle like that, but I think everybody that plays with him, he's like a glue guy. The guys that play with him love him like he's inclusive. You know, he he thinks the game at a high level. I also think no one's endured as much hate.

We talked about that, Yeah, the hype and.

The hype and what he's done. But just you think about, like Jordan didn't have to experience that when we played in the nineties. It was talk radio, maybe the newspaper, but you didn't hear the noise.

You didn't hear the slander.

And now for someone like him, the face of the franchise, who's been so good, man, he's got to endure so much. Just I mean, all we all get it. I'm sure you guys. So I just I got sorry about math. So I'm sorry, man, I'm getting off. So when Twitter, when Twitter first came out, I think we were in that. Maybe it was Instagram, I can't remember. So Mad. You know, somebody might say something slick to Mad on Twitter, and Matt would come back at.

Him like full speed.

No, no, no, let me tell you we're gonna be in your city on this day And we're staying at this hotel, meet me at seven am in the lobby.

He pulled me to the side one day, like, Matt, you stop that.

So he wanted all to smoke, but like literally, like I was like, yeah, but you know.

Just it was around that time. The game is changing. But we hear all that and we're adults, we're older, we're you know, I'm almost be fifty this year. But these young kids, man like, I think it does affect them a little bit when they hear all that, and it's still impressionable, still trying to find their way.

So I don't envy that.

And I think Lebron has been sort of the poster boy of that, and so I admire that he's been able to just you know, he don't always win. It doesn't always do you know, but he he handles all that and handles it well very well.

Yeah. Uh. Born in Dallas, Texas. Uh, your dad was a Pro Bowl Super Bowl champ with the running with the Cowboys that the last time they won the Super Bowl. Do that? Don't do that? Mom was successful business.

Only child.

Football, you're always in the mix as a youngster.

Football.

Talk about those times growing up as an only child in that environment.

Yeah, so I was the only child of two only children, and so it was just us. And but you know, football was my first love and grew up around it. I was I was named by Roger Starbach. So my dad, my mom and dad were expecting a girl, and obviously I'm not a girl. So my dad can't make up his mind. And so I was baby boy Hill for like three days and Starback came to the hospital and you know, came up with the name Grant, named after my paternal grandmother's maiden name.

And so we moved to d C.

And you know, that rivalry, particularly in the late seventies early eighties, it's always been intense, but it was the Redskins were good cowboys coming off the seventies. So I was a die like. I'm a cowboy fan like die Hard. That was tough being in DC and being he's he's not a come on all teams. That's our nemesis right there. But look, I was on the I was on the parade on the float when the Redskins won I think it was eighty two eighty three, they beat the Dolphins.

So I was on the float. Dave Butts, who was the Aligneman.

I went on the float with him and his family, and I remember how proud I was because underneath my jacket I had a Cowboys shirt off, and so that was But but football was everything, man, and my dad wouldn't let me play. He wouldn't let me play till I got the high school and so that killed me. And you know, I resented it and uh and so I kind of got away from it. And by the time I was in high school, you know, I wanted to play. I was in basketball.

I was all in. But football was my first love, no question.

When did you realize basketball can take you places?

I first I first fell in love with basketball. Eighty two Final four Jordan hit that shot, Jordan North Carolina Georgetown. We bought a Beta Max. We taped that game, and so that was when I fell in love. And then a couple of years later, my dad and I started going to Final four US. So when Georgetown won in eighty four and we went every year from eighty four to eighty eight, that was our little you know, father son bonding or whatever. And so I think for me

The NBA like thirteen year olds.

You say we were thirteen, But here's the thing I was. I was young for my grade. So I started college or high school at thirteen. I started college at seventeen. I should have been probably a webinar, you know what I'm saying. But I was going into high school and so I played varsity as a freshman. Well, those guys were tenth grade, and so when I came back the next year, I was like, I was, I had surpassed all of them. We lost in the finals. I still

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Com Again that's twenty percent off for free shipping at maanscape dot com. Use the code smoke. Shake with your Muma gave you, Nah, shake with your Daddy gave you. What was your recruiting process? Like, you know, it was good?

It was.

You know, I mean for me, it was it was. It was Carolina Georgetown. Those were the two schools that I loved. Dad wanted you to go to UNC. Yeah, I'm gonna wanted you to go to Georgetown, man, that's right. So we had we had we had, we had season tickets so we would go to Georgetown games. And I don't know if you remember, Michael Jackson played it with point guard, so he went to my high school. He used to work for my mother in the summers. My

You win titles in ninety one and ninety two, right, uh, the famous Christian Layton shot.

How big was that moment?

Man?

It's crazy, you know, it's crazy to think that was thirty years ago and people still people still talk about it. But Christian was a great college player. I mean Alonso Shaq, I mean everybody he faced, he dominated Shack twice and he and we had a good team. I mean Bobby was a great college point guard. I was you know, I was a good player. He had three he had three guys in the College Basketball Hall of Fame and

We were just trying to win.

We were I was nineteen, I was a kid, and but that passed the Layner. That shot Laydna didn't miss a shot the whole game. Layden was cocky, lighten. It was like he talked trash. He also had a He was a great teammate as well. I remember we had a game I talked about in the book. We had a game we went to Buffalo to play Concious and it was a game for him going back to his hometown.

You act like you.

Don't want to play, and he's like, I want my hometown to see how good my teammates are. And so you know, you you coming back home, college player of the Year, you wanna try to show out. But he was trying to show us out and so you know, you don't hear about that side of Christian You just hear the you know, the crazy, and there was a.

Lot of craziness.

But but he was he was a great competitor, you know, he he he and he did his work.

He did his thing with all the noise and knowing how everybody feel about Duke, is the brotherhood tight enough to block out the noise and stay strong?

You know?

Yeah?

I mean it's funny, man, because I don't think we were aware of what people's perceptions were back then a Duke and I looked at Duke different than I looked at Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Georgetown. These are pwy's that have good basketball teams, and so I get it with the you know us beating Vegas and the Fab five and obviously Jalen's documentary and how they felt towards us. But I wasn't aware that, like honestly, like we we got along with every like, you know, web was my guys.

We'd go to Durham, we go.

To cookouts, barbecues, barbershop. Everybody showed love. So I don't think I was aware.

That there was this stigma.

Yeah, like this now, I should have known better, because I didn't like the Celtics for the very reason people didn't like us. I was a Laker fan, and I identified with the Lakers.

But I think.

Because we had really good white players and had a fairy Latner pearly, maybe I fit this, like you know, my parents, and you know, people thought what they thought about me. I think that might have contributed to the narrative. But at the time, like I was totally oblivious to that narrative. And and not until years later I even thought the hate towards Duke later on was because Duke has success, like the Yankees or like you know, the Cowboys. I didn't realize. I didn't really realize that you.

Could have used a better example. But I feel you over the.

Forty nine ers, you know, you know, and so but I get it now, like I understand, and it was an interesting time and you know, and so I you know, I get the but had a brotherhood strong, coach k moved on. You know, Shires recruited, well, you know, we hope to stay relevant.

Man. That's that's that's the main thing.

Ninety four draft, you go number three overall to Detroit. What are you hearing leading up to the draft? I mean, Glenn Robinson, Jason Kidd, You're self, what are you hearing leading up to there? You hear one, two, three?

So this was this was crazy. So Glenn, Glenn was.

Glenn was incredible in college thirty a game, like I mean, he was. He was unreal, man, and I think he's underappreciated, like people don't. He came into twenty one his first first year in the league, scoring twenty one a game. So at the at the draft lottery, Mike Dunleavy, who was the coach at GM, puts up his jersey, So that's the sign they gonna take him. So I figured, you know, Dallas had the number two pick, they had Jimmy Jackson, Jamal Mashburn, so they gonna they're gonna take

Yep, I don't blame I dogged the workout. Mike Dunley.

He put me through this like he was. I was doing laps and suicide, like he was killing me. And then he wanted to play me one on one. Mike did coach Dunley and so I'm like, so we checked ball and I'm standing under the basket. He said the free He said, you're not gonna guard me. I said, I don't think you can make that. And man, he hit like ten in a.

Row on me. Man, like I would.

I wouldn't garden him, and uh, and I was like, what is he doing? Like you know, but he wanted to see me compete against him, which I didn't get. But did you No, I didn't guarden. I didn't even want to be there, and so, you know, yeah, exactly, But but Detroit was where I wanted to be and I felt like they had won recently and you know, the colors red, white, and blue. I felt was good, you know, good for my feelers.

So I mean, right, you had a nice catalog of Nikes over at Duke. What made you choose Felix because they were obviously a lesser known brand.

An get that bag? So let let me say what happened, man? So it was crazy.

So I'll go out to Nike and you know, you go out there for your recruiting trip to take it through the store. You get all this stuff. So Phil Knight,

I was like, like, you said, get that bag.

You're not the type of person to talk about this, but I just kind of want to have context because it's nineteen ninety four. Can you explain like what kind of money it was at that time compared to maybe what some of the guys maybe getting today.

So Nike was offering me about five hundred thousand, and Phela was basically it was a five year, fifteen million dollars deal, Go get that bag, So you know, like fifteen million dollars a lot. It was more money in nineteen ninety four, so that was a guaranteed royalty, and the shoe ended up exceeding I think everyone's expectation. But I was like, hey, you know, to this day, still selling, I still get a royal teacher.

Yeah yeah, first impression, it's in Detroit. It's the end of the bad boy era, and now you were coming in to be the face of the franchise.

Yeah, you know, it was crazy, man, because the team had won twenty games.

I came in.

There was a void in the league. MJ had retired. I think the league was looking for a face. I played in one hundred and twenty some of my games at Duke, and all but five of them on national TV, so people, I think knew who I was, and I came out the gate and I was like, I came out to Gate, Like, oh, I came out to gate.

But one thing that that helped.

Me was that that summer before my freshman or my rookie year, you played pickup ball and then pick up ball, and you know I used to I used to play with it. You know, I'd come down. My My favorite guy was the Pearl Duane the Pearl. Kenny Anderson had gray handles. I used to try to be like Tim

Didn't you come at you like that?

You couldn't go full exact, couldn't go full spring across you.

Yeah, so that that I think the ball handling. I was never a great shooter at least early on. You know, I became a decent mid range, but the ability to get to my spot and at the small forward position, I think that's really helped me early on, and they weren't you see more of that now, guys, you know everybody does that, but back then you didn't have a lot of threes playing like that.

As a rookie, you made the All Star Game and one cold Rookie of the year averaged twenty six and five. After that first year, if you said you called your homies after the first handful of games, were you surprised that the actually what you did fresh out of college in the NBA?

Yeah, you know, I was surprised, And then I was surprised at all the fans, Like I was like, because they kept trying to make me like the face and I'm thinking, like I still like, like I'm trying to We won twenty eight games, my frint like, I you know what I'm saying. I'm still got a lot to learn. But that first year was crazy, man, Like it was you know, you shoot, you got commercials endorse. They would try to call me the next Jordan, but I thought

What was your welcome to the NBA moven Obviously a lot of success your first year, but what was your kind of your welcome to the league moment? Was it a team? Was it a player? Was it a play?

Yeah?

I just think out the gates, man, like just you know, coming in and like establishing myself, being able to do what I wanted. I felt like it was easier than the college game. I think making then All Star Game my first year like that was probably like like man, like I'm here, you know, But there wasn't like one signature play or moment or game or anything like that. I think just out the Gate, coming in and putting up work and having success.

It's like a dream come true. You know, I didn't you understand.

I talk about it in the book, like I lacked self confidence, Like I didn't have great confidence in myself. And I also didn't want to stand out growing up.

And I.

Had to get comfortable stepping into greatness. I had to get comfortable with that kind of responsibility. And my last year, Duke, I think I really kind of got to that point, which helped me when I got to the league. But so all that attention, like that wasn't something that I that I coveted, you know what I'm saying. And so it was a little bit you know, now you got money, you got fame, you're young, you got a.

Little bit, you know.

So it was it was a little it was a little wild that first year, and but you know it was it was fun though.

I mean, I can't lie. You know.

You recall your first game against so MJ was retired your rookie year, right, he was. That was the year he missed.

He came back through the end of the year.

End of the year. Yeah, so what was your first match up with him?

Like, man, I just wanted to go at him.

Man.

I played against him with the Dream Team, but I didn't really go against him, and I crossed him up. I remember, I was like geeked about that and we lost the game. But you know, to go against Jordan like that was that was. I'll tell this man, Jordan was. It has always been good to me, like he always would, you know, we go out, we go eat, you know.

He he.

I think because he lost his dad, and I think he liked my dad, my dad, and so you know, I don't know if it was me or what, but he always and he talked trash about Duke Carolina and all that, but he was always was good to me. But yeah, you know, I mean I try to go at you. I didn't guard him a lot. I'll tell you it was funny. So the summer after my rookie year, you you weren't at u C l A man, y'all Chris Johnson man, they ran ran LA after y'all.

Won the championship.

So I'm out in l A and I'm filming Living Single and they created that bubble and I go over there to play against Jordan's and I played the first day and I'm giving him the business like I am killing, Like I'm not a shooter, but everything I'm shooting is going in. I'm like, I'm crossing him up. So we're on the lot. They built this bubble. He's got a cord and I'm going at Jordan's and I'm giving he wants to guard me, I'm giving him the building.

Man.

In fact, it was I had the shoes on my my g H two's and he had his Jordan tens. But the pattern we both had patent.

Level and up.

Man, I'm killing them like I mean, like like after I'm calling my boys afterwards, like, man, I'm killing George, like he's too little, like all this stuff. And so the next day I come over and I'm confident now you know, I'm man. He gave me the bit like it was like the next the next day and I couldn't get a shot off. He was all that footwork and you know, he was just But that was the best runs, I mean not just in LA. Maybe the

L a.

Guys were there.

Toby Bailey might have been the biggest celebrity in LA this summer. And but yeah, Jordan's that was that was a fun, fun summer right there. And had had my moment against him, Jay I'm talking about I'm talking about giving him business like yeah.

Y'all, yeah, yeah, I know you Monest too, so you was really probably given him that ship. But he's not gonna talk like that.

We want to go in nineteen ninety six in the Atlanta Olympics, How was it traveling and being with those guys with that team Let's name that team because that Barkley, Penny Keen, Reggie, Pippin Stockton, all those guys.

Yeah, a lot of personality, Shack, Reggie, GP, Charles like it was. It was, but the best part with the practices and we didn't do much. We discrimmaged. So I got a chance to go against Scotty every day and you know that was that was crazy, Like Scotty was great, but I got I got confident playing against Scotty and to me, he was the gold standard.

At that point.

But it was crazy, man, Like it was. I was there with Shaq when he left to go to LA and they had the article in the Sentinel on Orlando. We were in Orlando practicing and they basically had a survey s should they pay Shack or not. I was on the bus for Shack and he was in the back and he was like, I can't believe that they don't want me. And I was like, man, go out west, go to La Man, like, you know, we're trying to

And they really voted not to pay him. They didn't pass that was I know they didn't pay him, but I'm saying there was a there was.

The paper did a survey, right the Magic paid Shack or not?

It was supposed to be the first hundred million dollar deal or something like that or.

And Shaq's big thing was Alonzo got like one hundred and ten, and he was like, if Alonzo's a BMW, I'm a Porsche. And so if he's getting one hundred and ten, I should get one hundred and twenty five. And so fans there voted, I don't know the survey whatever, but it was unanimous no. And and so that was crazy. But so just being with those guys, man, it was good. I remember, you know, we went out a couple of times. It was a little wild and you.

Know, pre camera phones and pre camera so y'all was safe.

Yeah, man, I look, I'm gonna just say that Scottie I went out with him one night and they threw a party in all Lando. Now I didn't drink at this point. I didn't drink till I met my wife. But true story. But so I wasn't drinking and so we went out. We went to a Scotty's Hammer. You know he's drinking. We go back to his Uh we go back and play cards all night until about six seven blu Ray till like six seven in the morning. We got practice at ten. I get there. I'm the youngest guy on the team.

I have nothing. Scotti is like this dude.

Like I was like, I don't know how, but he and MJ that's the roll man. So I had a lot to learn.

But no, it was great.

It was you know, we went a gold medal and play with those guys was was was a big thrill.

What international players caught your eye run the time.

Oscar Schmidt, he was older at that time, but he was giving me the business. You know, he was tall, he about six y nine and could shoot a quick trick, big dude, and so he could play. But you know, man, look we dominated everybody. I mean, it was a true story.

Did you play against Andrew Gays, Yeah, Australia.

Yeah, I wasn't worried about him. He was older at that point.

But in the Olympics, true story. Nobody wanted to be the leading scorer because you got drug tests and so yep, the only person that got drug tested every game was Karl Malone. It was Karl Malone and whoever the leading scorer was. We figured it out after a couple of games.

So but it was crazy. It was crazy.

I would have dodged that too. How and where did you celebrate your goldmelo?

You know, that's when to me and I started. That's when we kind of met before that. So after the gold medal, I got a suite at the Bell Air for five weeks and that's what we were for five weeks. She was living in l A. And five weeks before the season, now I was in la at the bell Hotel telling had you open?

She had? I had her.

The books called game Yeah.

Yeah, ninety six the gold medal team or the Dream Team?

Who win it?

Yeah?

I mean we had six guys from that original team. We didn't have MJ.

You practiced. Did you practice with the Dream Team as a son two?

Yeah?

We been right, Web me Web Hurley, Penny Mash Rodney Rogers, Montrosse, Allan Houston. So we played him the first game in ninety two and La Joya Alan hit about ten threes. Bobby was getting wherever he wanted. Penny and I were dunking everywhere. In transition, where was a beast?

Like?

Where was just.

Killing them dudes, Like to the point where Larry Bird was like, if that's what's coming in the league, I need to get out, damn. But then the next day, the next two days they smacked us. We had no But that to me was a was a great gauge. You know that I could play at that level. But I like that you know, look, man, we competitors. Man, you always feel like you can win, man, Like that. That's the thing about sports man. You always feel we had shocked. What were they gonna do with Shack? Yeah,

I mean, you know we would have held on. Yeah, definitely held on.

Your run from ninety four to two thousand was unprecedented, five consecutive of all NBA selections twenty one, eight and six over that span. Did you feel personally, and you just said, you're a competitor, you felt like you were the best player in the league at that time.

Every time I stepped on the floor, probably after like around ninety six, I felt like I was the best player. And I think, I don't think that's unusual. I know, every time this guy stepped on the court, you felt like.

You were the best player, even if I if I even if I knew I wasn't you finna see it all on me here, That's what I'm saying.

Like you have like to me, like I went against MJ. Like I'm thinking he got to guard me, and you have to have that mentality.

You have to have it.

And I think when you're top, when you just enderly, you gotta like even me, man, you didn't score twenty thirty points a game. But then when you're getting out there, you competing, you gotta feel like I'm gonna shut this guy down. I'm gonna bus is that like, you have to have that mentality. So I did, and when I got hurt, and in those four years, I lost that and y'all never got a chance to really see that that player in person. But you go four years of hurt,

But I lost that edge.

I lost that like and physically I lost a whole lot as a result as well. So four years it just you know, you're like, I remember during that time, it was back maybe an four.

I went.

I was at Duke and Coach k it was a year I sat out. He was like, who are the top five players in the league, and I was like, shag kobe A, I'm naming guys. He said, okay, who the next five? And I go through, I give me the next ten, and so I started naming all these guys and he's like, you name twenty guys. You didn't name yourself. And so I didn't quite at the time

Explained because like I said, it happened a while ago, like you really explain your injuries and how bad your ankle situation really got, because I don't think people understand the extent of your injury.

And he came back still dunking on people barely. I mean, it's a long story and I get into it in the book, but you know, I I got hurt in Detroit and it was a comedy of errors, like it was just it was mismanaged, the whole thing, and you know, I got heard we didn't diagnose it correctly, I think, and it was probably a hairline fracture. Got worse and worse until I broke it, and then when I went to Orlando.

Was see it. So that was the season before Orlando. Correct that was my last year in Detroit.

Had surgery, But the surgery shouldn't have been It wasn't a big deal, like every team was still coming after me. I was healing when I got to Orlando. I was supposed to be out till December January, but they brought me back in September, and so there was some miscommunication. I ended up getting what was called a non union. So the best way to explain that is that if these two fingers are one bone and they break, doctors put the bones back together. They put plates in there

So not the ankle of the leg, yeah, like the lower part of the leg.

And so.

We didn't have social media, we didn't have the ability to tell what was going on. So I think a lot of people didn't know how big it was, how serious it was. And so I go through all of that in the book. It was four or five years of just craziness. But so that's why you lose that, you know what I'm saying. You just like man, I almost died, Like at one point I didn't want to come back, But you just like man, I'm just I'm just happy to be.

What age are you? Not to cut you off? What age are you at that time?

Two thousand, I'm twenty seven, damn righting your prime? And you know what's crazy? Man, like writing this book, like going through it all. And I talked to you earlier about like you got to stay in the moment, like you can't. I didn't deal with with all of the baggage mentally, emotionally. I was just trying to fight to keep playing, getting into the hall of fame in that

It was dark.

Even the hall of fame. The hall of fame should be like the you know, the icing on the cake. The ultimately, regardless of what happened or didn't happen, it validates you.

And I was mad.

I was bitter because I'm thinking, y'all only got six years. Y'all didn't get I didn't get a chance to see this all the way through, right, And so I didn't deal with that until after my career because you I'm fighting, man, I'm just trying to stay on the court.

You can't.

You're not gonna really look back at the good and the bad while you're in the midst of.

I say this because you are a big brother, like you're the biggest what if ever, like we all look like you were the next prototype. They were fitting you to be the next MJ because that's how talented you were, you know what I mean. And it's just like to hear you kind of explain your story on what you went through, like you were robbed, We were robbed, Like you were going where no one has really been for your size, your position and what you brought to the game.

It did, it did, and you know, everybody's got something and everybody goes through something. And sometimes I don't want to equate this because there's people who have far more traumatic things in their life. But sometimes we suppressed that. Sometimes you suppress it to survive, but ultimately you get through it by acknowledging it and dealing with it. And so I never unpacked it, and I didn't realize. I

I got hurt.

You know, I didn't have I didn't see it. All the way through the Hall of Fame is college and NBA. So my college helped get me in. So my body of work wasn't enough. So I kind of justified it. But just tell me, I'm being honest. So I'm at the All Star Game in Cleveland and I'm working that night, I'm working the pregame, that the post game and all that goes on, and it hit me then and that was I got. I was emotional, and it was I

Be out there.

And I remember twenty five years ago, I was in that building for the fiftieth and it was All Star weekend and I said, you know what, if they ever do this again, I'm gonna be on the next team. And when I was there, and no disrespect to these guys because they deserving to be on it.

I'm fans of this their brothers of mine. I love them to death.

But when I saw people like you know, guys from my era like Ray and Reggie, and I used to be like, man, I used to get him the business, like that's what I was thinking.

And so I had, you know, and and they're deserving it.

So I'm not trying to so that it like it hit me and so like this still baggage, Like it's still you know what I'm saying, and so, but it kind of triggered me a little bit.

But you know what I mean.

Look, I mean, you're better than Danny Shad's bro. I'm sorry man, when you said Shades, you're better than Dolph Shades. I want to I was nicer than Dolph Shades. Look, you got given respect for his time.

But look, I want to say something about y'all man, because I know y'all interviewing me, but.

I played.

First of all, I remember, Matt, I watched you play during the lockout and U c l A and I remember hearing you a football player. And then fast forward, I think it was old seven y'all had y'all running at Golden State, and I'm like, who is this light skinned crazy motherfucker ran the court and chaid Devin somebody, and I was like, Yo, this dude is crazy, Like you know what I'm saying. But then I played with you and and people get to see the different sides

I watched you imagined that real quick. In the Phoenix shit, they fired Terry Porter at All Star break, that was our coach. First of all, I'm going, I'm so, I'm going to come out that we believe season Nelly Mad I don't sign a three year deal, so he gets rid of me. I'm going in there and geez there and I'm telling I tell him, remember yo, Honor, You're my favorite play. I don't know if I made him feel old at the time, but I'm.

Going to tell him that during the game Grant Hill, first of all, first of all, it was crazy and they fired him, and and yeah, we had too much town man. That was that we had so much. We should have been remember stat Cockta Cock, superhero Ja.

We had.

We had so much.

But the crazy thing was with this dude right here. I don't know if you remember this. We played We played in Orlando, and I think after the whole thing in the past. That was O four oh five, and then six I got I had a it's Hernias. I don't know if we played against each other until six o seven and we're in Orlando and I'm guarding there and we're right on the sidelines and somebody yelled something slick out to you about you know too.

I turned around and cursed him out. Yeah you remember that. I remember that I cursed him out. And I didn't know how.

We didn't know each other, but because I'm I gotta guard this dude, and I don't need you know what I'm saying, But like, but I I and so and then we played the next year, I think at Golden State was in Phoenix, and.

Man, y'all ran up and down the court like that year.

I was like, I mean, I was fun.

It was fun. But like I always said, he was top three four guys, I had to go. I could never figured him out. I couldn't figure Jack out. But I couldn't. I couldn't had a different game. You could shoot it, you played with it. You couldn't speed you up.

Yeah.

Yeah, I couldn't do anything with Kobe like I mean, I couldn't.

You know. I'm out there with one leg and they gotta be out here thirty eight trying to guard Kobe. I'm looking at Matt like you was getting after it though. I mean, but but but I couldn't. It was I couldn't figure you out. Man. I pierced like I could. I had a game plan for and I actually did well against these guys. But people don't appreciate how good you were. I think those that know get a bucket. No, no, I've always told you that.

I want to backtrack a little bit. So you go to Orlando. This is you T mac and a possibility of getting Tim Duncan at the time walk us through this. So you're going through injury and then and trying to get back on the court. You're teaming up with a young T mac uh and then there's whispers or rumors that you could possibly to get Tim So what.

Happened was Tim and I went We had the same agent, so we went down together, and Tim, I think was more in at the time than I was. I was still, you know, I had New York, I had a couple of other teams I was looking at, but Tim wanted to be in Orlando if he were to leave. And so we were down there and they were hosting us, and they had just had a pretty good season Doc

Yes, you know, and so that's.

Why because I'm thinking that's a bold question, Like I'm like, why is she asking that question? So but I didn't pay much attention to it. So we got back to the hotel that night, and it was funny because to me and I, we we're in the hotel almost like the hotel room was bugged.

So we're whispering to each other, like you know, and she's like, he ain't coming. I said, what do you mean.

She's like when she asked that question, her whole body language changed with that response, and I.

Was like, nah, nah, no whatever.

So anyway, we get back, we get back to Detroit's funny story. So it was too much I'm gonna crutch us. So I ended up saying, you know what, have the teams come visit me in Detroit? So New York comes in and they bring they bring Starr Jones, they bring

And so to me it was like, oh hell now. And so to this day we talked.

She's like, man, you think that New York would have watched the tape and so anyway, you know, New York didn't happen. But and by then I was probably going to Orlando. But so then t Mac like the but there was a chance. As Tim was trying to figure it out, Tam Mac you know, he's from down there. So it just it was coming together that like all three of us might play together. And I didn't know how good t Mac was at that time, and so I didn't know. I didn't know until he got to Orlando.

Have could have been could have done a t Mac and g.

Despite all the injuries.

You know how me and Matt feel about you, right, A lot of people, a lot of people feel the same way about you. And even though the injuries, you still had a Kobs career in our minds. The way we look at you, how when you go back and look when you go back and look at all that, what's your thoughts?

Like? How grateful are you?

You know, to make it through all that, the injury and still be able to come back and finish on a good note.

Yeah, that was special. I mean it was a good thing.

You know.

On one hand, I didn't appreciate how good I was, and that sounds arrogant, but I didn't appreciate how good I was in Detroit because we went winning. And so the one thing I learned from this process of writing a book is when we have success, we got to celebrate that. There's a story. Two thousand All Star Games. So ninety nine we had a lockout, so we didn't have an All Star Game. Two thousand San Francisco, we're there, we play or I guess in Oakland the old old

We had to defer to him, you know what I'm saying. I mean just no one said it, but you just felt like unspoken, we.

Got to get the ball, especially in ninety eight when Kobe was there, like they're going they had to like which I got issues with the whole the documentary. It was a great documentary, but it made it seem like I was scared, like we were on the bench, and what happened was in that game. Penny was hurt that year. He sat out the whole year, came back for two games, played in an All Star Game. He had GP Garden. It was it was Kobe and MJ. And then people

So and the time out. I'm like, yo, y'all got to get back because I'm out here on the island. Man, what he's doing these young boys, you know.

And so the way it looked, it looked like I was like scared of and I had great respect for Kobe, but I wasn't scared of him. Then, you know, so two thousand All Star, so you know, the trainers always would carry your I had contacts then, so my trainer, Mike Abden, I are in Detroit, would always keep contacts so if I ran out, I would just go get something from him. So I only had one pair of contacts. In the day of the game, my one contact ripped and so I'm like, do I play with no contacts?

I put one in and now I'm all screwed up. During the game, I threw a live to Vince. I promised you.

I threw it over the backboard even like and so you know, and I remember something I told Chip England, who's you know, you know Chip from San Antoni. I told Chip, I said, oh man, it's always next year, like I'll wear you know next year.

And so next year didn't happen.

And so I say all that to say that you got to celebrate when we have success and life's not guaranteed, and we got to celebrate each other and celebrate yourself. I didn't do that when I was in Detroit because to me, I was chasing Isaiah and until we won, I didn't give myself permission to celebrate. And so being able to go back now and like you know what, I actually was all right because I don't. Here's the thing, you guys, remember that I remember trying to guard Kobe

As you said, a lot of people remember them full speed crossovers.

Trust me, pull Steve coming at you.

With the crossover.

I remember when he got pippt and banged on it.

Pippin was too light, man, he was like two fifteen. I could just you came right at it.

Got For all you young people, google him, no, google him. What was the twenty ten playoff experience? Like with Steve Nash. That was the Western Finals round.

Yeah, you played you? Was in you in Orlando?

Oh yeah, twenty we went to Orlando.

We had a good year. You know, it was weird because we had as great as Shack was and his greatest Steve, where they didn't really mix. And so when Shaq left and Amari was healthy, and then Alvin Gentry was coaching us, we had a really good season. We were third seed and we beat Portland, we beat San Antonio, and then we faced that LA.

They got us the first two games in LA. We beat him the first the next two.

Games and in game five, man like we're right there on the ropes, ja Rich banks in the three to tie it. In overtime, Kobe gets a ball, a three pointer the one time he missed, the one time he missed, the shadow of me like in that situation, he air balled it. I'm right in his like, I'm right there in his face. He airballs it, but Metal World Peace gets the rebound. Jay Rich didn't box him out. He tip in and they win game five, and I don't

I'm not, I know what he's gonna do. And I'm like, and then, you know, you know how hard it is.

Saying this, and when you usually square it off agains him, you're saying that in your head as yours.

I knew he wanted to go right, and I knew he had a great ball fake and I've seen him do it before. And so he at one shot right in front of our bench when he tapped Alvin on them, and so he hit a touch shot on me before that, and.

I tried to denyme the ball, but he gets it. He goes right. I go with him. He shot faced.

I don't go for it.

I actually I get closer into him. I go up when he goes up. You know how hard it is to do a shot fate reload from.

Three and somebody in your grip.

And I couldn't be any closer to him without fouling. Man, this dude, Like I was like, I mean.

I was actually proud of the defense I played, like I'm thinking I could have done anything other than just prevent him from getting the ball. But he was the best player I played against. And and I say this respectfully with Georgia, I didn't guard Jordan Pippen and I matched up, But the best player that I played against, hands down was Kobe. And one of my regrets, it's in the book and O seven. When I left Orlando, Phil Jackson called me three for him right, No, No,

Yeah, played with some great teammates. Anyone, who's your favorite teammate during your.

Career, Damn man, nineteen years, Man, that's that's you got a hell of a run. I think in Detroit, Lindsey Allen, those are my guys. We came in together, you know, and in Orlando was tough because I didn't play a whole lot.

In Orlando.

Jamior was good people, JAMMI you know, actually it's crazy, you know, you know who bonded and I bonded a lot because we were rehabing all the Damn time was Pat Garretty, Like we were hurt two years, so we spent.

A lot of time together. You know, I enjoyed play. I mean, we didn't hang out. We didn't.

You know, I didn't partake, but I enjoyed bad man. Like that was I'm telling you, like just in terms of teammates doing whatever is needed, the ultimate teammates, you know what I'm saying, Like people don't get enough credit for that. I'll give you enough credit for that, but like you should have started in that like with the Clippers that year, you know, but he came off the bench.

It was like late too.

It might've been like August September and you were unsure where you were gonna sign, and you were in there just playing pickup ball every day and then you playing so well they brought you in. But like just like whatever's needed, you know what I'm saying, didn't complain, just did what he had to do. If something popped off, he was always in it, like he was there for your teammate. Like it's so but it's so many man, I mean, you know, Nash was fun to play with.

Remember the Shack and lou Minton back and forth. Remember when Shack took his mouthpiece and put in his tights during shoot around.

I was just talking with Shack about that last night.

We talked about it on the show.

It's the crazy man, Hey, man, Shock. I mean there's so many stories man, people.

He writing on naked button naked, Remember writing on loose bike button naked.

I'm an out of Shacked right here. But I remember one time week it's so bad man. Remember one time, man, Shack, It's so bad.

Man. I don't even I can't repeat this. Man, Come on, you already started.

Man.

You know we're in the showers after practice and he goes to Jay Rich, Ja, Rich, you got a fat ass man.

I'm like, I'm like, how do you come back?

Like?

Like, what does j Rich do?

Man?

You know what I'm saying.

Shaq was just he was funny, He was nasty, crazy. He and we had poor Terry Porter.

Man he had Remember we used to say the Bill Carr right average fifth what he used to break his status?

So Terry Porter, we're in a film session and uh, we're watching film in the film room, and he stopped film saying shock, like, don't you think you could come over from the weak side and maybe block the shot right here? And Shaq would be like, TP, I'm top five all time in the NBA shot blocks. I think I know when I can block the shot.

Like it was like the disrespect, the craziness, so calm, it's so calm. About a couple of times.

He show up late. It's bad too, but he show up late for and nobody he was. It's just shot.

It was shot.

He shot late, and like, coach, I'm sorry, man. The passport truck tipped over on fifty one.

Man.

They were Mexicans everywhere. That's why I'm late. He was just like he was sings man. It was it was constant humor, man, and and uh, he just kept it light. He was fun.

It was crazy. We didn't make the playoffs, but you know he was in the time. I can't believe I told us stories, man, every day, every day. Every Bill Cartwright used to coach the bigs. Bill, I average so and so and so and so and so will go against you in this game. And my career number from high school to college and the pros. He would break off of Jim. I'm seventy percent lifetime from the field.

Like he just just unbelievable. He was.

All right, just like he was a mumble under his breath.

Sha was funny.

Fast forward co owner with the Hawks. How did you happen to land that spot? Congratulations?

By the way, appreciate that when we were in LA I wasn't playing. I was hurt.

Matter of fact, it was that December when you guys, when we were undefeated. We had a great month I had. I figured I was in l A. My family was in Phoenix. So once a month I would have dinner with this duke alum, a guy named Bruce Karsh and Bruce actually one of the partners with the Warriors, and uh, he's a Duke grad. So we were talking about the Clippers and I was like, you know, I think they might they might be in play. They may I'm here and they may have to sell the team for state

And funny story.

So I'm in New York with Bruce carrs Tony's in LA We're all on speakerphone and we're on the phone. They're gonna get mad that I told the story. We're on the phone and we're like, okay, one point two billion is gonna be our deal.

That's that's for the Clippers.

That's to buy the Clippers, which we were out bid by eight hundred million Steve Balmer.

But we're on the phone.

They're like all right.

So Tony says, I'll put it in half a billion, and then Bruce says, I'll put it in half a billion, and then they look at me. So I swear I said I got five on it, like you know, just you know, I was being funny, but I told him my mount and they just want to know that I that I was going to put something in and you have to put something in. So but that didn't work. The Hawks came up right after similar circumstances, some racial overtones, some emails, so on and so forth, and I ended

Yeah, it just wasn't good.

You played there, so it was, and so I felt like for me, my selling point was, we got a chance to come in in that value. You got a great city, international airport, quality of life. Guys liked to be in Atlanta.

They love the living.

Cost, the livings low. You know what I'm saying.

All of that, we got a chance to come in and change that narrative and build an emotional connection with the franchise. If you're from Boston and you're a basketball fan, there's a ninety nine percent chance you're a Celtics fan. But if you from Atlanta, you might be a Bulls fan. You might be so transient people really from there. So you know, we came in and you know, we do the arena practice facility, you know, try to create an atmosphere,

The food is unbelievable.

For food, we got sweet sweet, we got amenity. We're trying to create an environment there. Barbershop we got to kill a mic. Got a barbershop. Let me tell you the genius of that. It's dead space that you could not sell. And so we said, let's make it a barbershop. We got a DJ in there. Just it's a whole energy in their whole vibe and so just embracing Atlanta. We try to reflect Atlanta and all that we do. And we got a lot more work to do, but excited about the progress we've made.

Man, coming down the home stretch post career, you've been very successful. What are some other things you're into outside of ownership of that at Hawks.

Yeah, I got a lot of my plate man, maybe a little too much, but I'm on this. I'm on the board of Campbell's Soup, so we you know, in our portfolio we have everything from Cape Cod Chips, Kettle Chips, obviously, Campbell Soup, Chunky Soup. I'm on the board of Empire State Realty Trust. We're on the Empire State Building. We love to have you guys come do a show Empire State Building. I personally host you that.

We can make that happen. It's on me. We make that happen. We'd be honored.

I managing director of USA Basketball, so I'll be picking the Olympic team. And you know, Steve Currz, our head coach for the next next cycle, what else am I doing. I'm on the board of Duke shoes coming back out, Shoes coming back out. Matter of fact, these this is a partnership right here with to State, So it's a partnership. These will be coming out. He wore these the g H two's on on all eyes on me. Yeah, and so so that really helped with the shoe. But yeah,

Like, y'all love it.

Is it true? Anita Baker introduced you Intamya.

Kind of yeah, yeah, kind of. So, so Isaiah has a jersey retired and Anita Baker sings the national anthem at the jersey at the game. So afterwards there was was a reception. I meet Anita Baker, so she and her husband. So she's like, you know, so I know you got a girl. I know you like breaking all the hearts and all this, and I mean I'm just like, yeah, I can't find you I'm struggling.

I wasn't really struggle. I was like, I'm struggling. You know, this, that and the other, you know.

And so so the next week she was at the Soul Train Awards and she met to Mia and to me, it was you know, from Windsor, which is right across the river from Detroit, big fan of Anita. So she was telling her this and he was, I got just the guy for you. So she kind of she planned at the seed I ended up connecting with to me, you know, a couple of months later. But yeah, you know, it's a good story to say Anita hook to say, it's largely true. Joy your oldest daughters.

And as a father, what is that like watching your daughter punch people in the face and get punched in the.

Dude, it's crazy. You have though you have girl? You two boys, but three boy? Excuse me.

So she's you know, she started doing jiu jitsu, and as a parent, you think, okay, girl, young lady getting to go off to college learn self defense.

That's a good thing.

But that just kept going, kept going, and so right before COVID, she's like, Dad, I think I want to fight. So I got a buddy who's a general counselor at UFC. So I took her to a fight and we're sitting up close. I'm thinking, you know, she sees up close, she won't want to do it, you know. So we get this in North Carolina. We go to the fight, we fly home that night, we get into two am. I'm like, Milly, what do you think. She's like, Dad, I could be a champion.

And I was like, backfight, like but play. It didn't work.

But she kept going and she fought last. She fought last October. And I mean, she's passionate about it. And you know, like if somebody, if your parents tried to tell you couldn't play basketball anyway, you got to support your kids whatever they want to do.

So let me tell you so to me and I. So she goes to the fight. She goes early.

We drive from Orlando to Lakeland, Florida, by an hour drive. We don't say a word in a car. There's no music, no nothing on the rate. We're not saying it, but there's a nervous energy. We get to the fight. There's a bar man. We probably each had about eight rooming coaches. You just had to by the time she came on. She comes out her her walk out music was Rick Roksy' feeling good, The Devil was The Devil was a lie.

So she gets in the ring.

She goes in first, the young lady she's fighting, who's fought before, who looks like she's been in some fights, you know, and so we're a little nervous about but like she gets she comes with studs in her ears and I said no, no, so they can't get him out. And so they're going through all this and trying to get him out. It's been ten minutes. So now we're kind of mad.

It's the tactic.

Yeah, that's stolling.

So now to me, I won't repeat what to me it was saying, but it's what they say in Memphis a lot, and so and so anyway, she gets in the ring. She chokes her out with fifteen fifty seconds, and uh, you know, so she's into it, man, and you know, what do you do?

Man?

You know, but she was flig and fliging.

But she and she and she you know, I mean, she's quiet sweet kind, like the last person you would think. But dude, she goes six days a week, she teaches it, she loves it. She's a brown belt like she's she wants to fight, she wants to try to go for it. She wants to open up gems down the road. So she's got a plan and you know, we'll see what happens.

You were always forward thinking in basketball, so much that you didn't have an agent.

What did that?

Where did that idea come from? And you were able to be successful.

I realized early on that the NBA is a global marketing and public relations firm that's disguise as a league. We went to China, man, we went to China, and we were over there and people knew who we were. We go places recognize us, and that's because that's what the NBA does. And so I felt like I needed an attorney who could negotiate my contracts. But all the marketing opportunities I was coming from the league that was coming from different, you know, because the league's pushing young

So you know, I got hurt.

All that momentum kind of went away, but it was invaluable experience, like having an office, having employees doing evaluations, raises, sitting in meetings talking about strategy like I'm doing all this while I'm playing, and it just helped, you know, helped me think about and learn about other things. So you know, it was fun and I had a good time. And you know, maybe if I had the muscle of a big time marketing firm, maybe things would have been a little different.

But I had pretty well.

I had a lot of deals real quick. Before we get to quick hitters. The spreading situation.

I thought you were going to ask about, uh, like Biggie oh ship, Yeah, because you remember you asked me about that in LA Yeah, I talk about in the book.

So yeah, the night did the night Biggie pass? Yeah, talk to us about that. Damn, I totally forgot about that. We just had we just had the photographer that go ahead.

Were in La so here March eighth, because he died on the ninth, my birthday and night that's right, March ninth. And so we played the Clippers. We beat the Clippers. I did work, I did my thing, and so to MIA's label is throwing a party. So after the game, I go with Tamiya and I don't know if you know Jay Brown, so Jay was at the label. We get in the limo. We go back to Tomya's manager's house. First of all, I was the night that the first

So we go to the party.

Now I understand t and I have been together almost a year those first time we had been out publicly, and so we walk in and everybody turns like everybody's looking at us because they hadn't seen us out. But everybody was there. We saw Biggie, we saw Puffy.

We went there long. We might have been there ten minutes.

We might have left five minutes before they left, because when we left they were kind of near the door, and by the time we got back to tim Min's place, it had already circulated that he got killed, and so it was it was crazy.

It was a little weird.

Thinking that they were out there because it was still all that East coast West coast stuff. And shoot that even happened with Tamia, like she got caught up. We got caught up in a situation. She was in the studio working on her album. Stevie J. Produced one of the songs, and so before I got there, I'm with Jay Brown. We're Benny Hannahs and we're doing sock bombs,

We're all on the wall. I'm thinking like this R and B session, Like I'm like man this ain't rap.

And so anyway, I found out what happened, and you know, we we I don't know what ultimately happened, but I say that that was that was probably the summer of ninety seven. So but it was just still tension, you know what I'm saying. And so when we saw Biggie and them at the it was just like, I mean, I didn't think what happened would happen, but it.

Was just it was it was weird. Energy was off. Yeah, it was a weird knight. It was a weird knight.

Five real quick before we get the quick hitters. The Grant Hill Drinks Sprite I mean to me, you know that and Little Penny are kind of what I remember growing up from, like athletes and commercials. So how did that come about? In the idea and behind the actual commercial?

The idea it was kind of genius.

Man.

It was basically, obey your thirst, don't let somebody tell you to drink it. And so we're making fun of Pitchment and uh and making fun of myself and so that was Sprite attaching himself, aligning himself with the NBA. You know, I got involved with that. So we had a We had a great run, did a lot of fun commercials. Even did a commercial with Kobe his second year. Crazy Story. We did a commercial together his second year during the season. I fly out to LA. Now I'm

And I'm like, he wants to what he wants to rewrite the script. I'm like all right.

So they come back like thirty forty five minutes later. He got all the good lines. Now, he got all the good lines. And they're like and I'm like, look, nah, I said, man, look I come all the way out here, this is what I agreed to. If he wants to do this, I'm go looking back on the plane fly back. And so now meanwhile we're in trailers right next to week. You just could have gone and talked to each other. But that was cod Like, I kind of respect that

So well, man, it's been a great interview. Quick hitters. First thing to come into mind. Let us know duke all time starting five including yourself, so you plus four all time dukes dukies.

Man, I gotta go with Laden He did work, he was killed, a killer.

He I think Lighton's top three, top five maybe all time in college just in terms of his accomplishments. Ladner, I gotta go with I gotta go with Johnny Dawkins because he kind of set it off. People don't people don't appreciate how talented he was. You gonna get me in trouble man.

Two more.

I'm gonna show the young fella some love. Jason Tatum. I think when it's all said and done, I think he's gonna be the best. And he might he might already be there. He I don't know if there was a more skilled guy coming in out of high school had.

It all, you know, offensively that final spot. Kyrie, he was.

Only there for nine days, and I know sometimes we claim him, sometimes we don't.

Yeah, but talent, yeah he was.

He was Kyrie, Kyrie Dawkins, yourself Latner Jason Tatum.

Yeah, it's nice five, nice five right there?

What album can you listen to with no skips? Can't have your wife? No Brownie points here, Biggie's first album? Mm hmm ready.

Born, No it born?

Yeah, the little Baby on the front.

Yep, that's my first. That's my favorite one right there.

Yeah.

I mean you kind of already mentioned if you have a better story, but best Kobe or MJ's story off the court?

Uh, Kobe probably like ninety eight. I go up one night to me is living. She's living on a wheelshow corridor, and I think we're engaged at this point and it's late, Like I go to the men's gym at u c l A maybe like midnight, and I'm I'm redoing my shots, so I'm changing my mechanics and I'm just going in there to douce, like just some set shots by myself. And I go in there and Kobe's in there and he's laughed up and he's got his guy, and so I'm down at the other end and he's like, you

I can't. I can't say no. And so we played one on one and I'm telling you, it was like a game seven in like late July.

Like it was.

I don't think I played that intense in the summer.

And he was like, he was me, you know what, second year's coming off? Second year ninety eight, he's ninety six draft a year.

For the second year, and so like the work ethic and how hard like up until then, man like I didn't really work on my game and I just hooped to play pickup ball. And that summer was when I started, Okay, I'm gonna start like working and getting better and trying things. And that was the hard part because I did it in ninety eight, I did it in ninety nine, and then after that, I never I never worked on my

And and so that was. That was a moment that that that I remember.

That was I was like, man, this kid, I remember my freshman year ucl Is ninety eight, so he used to be on campus all the time. We see him normally during the day, at night working out playing.

It was and and you know, he impacted a whole generation. Now that they do that work. They put that like you know, back in the day, you might go.

In five spots, five makes I got some shots up, you know what I'm saying.

But like he put the work in it. For sure.

It's crazy question.

But I know your game and I didn't seen you play so much and idolajah. Would you rather cross someone to dunk on someone? But I've seen you do that too many times in the same play.

It go hand in hand. Yeah, for you to go in there, but put the questions say no, maybe maybe the favorite someone you crossed up and dunked on like that was your that was the ship, that was your patting the things. So you got a lot of people on that list.

It was always it was always fun dunking on the Kimbag.

Yeah.

I got him a couple of times.

Very few people got it.

And he I used to tell him, I'm a clown, I'm anna climb Mountain Tumbo, I'm coming.

And you don't know, you ain't gonna get me, and uh and so that back and forth.

The thing about my Tumbo in morning, they jumped for everything, and even if they got jumped, a lot of guys won't won't come over shack. They won't come over, you know, they don't want to get posterized. But like the Kimbag, he came every time, every time, and he got got.

He got got. You know, no question, no question for sure.

Uh five dinners dead or alive? Was that five dinner guests dead or alive? You know what?

You know? I was thinking, man, for my for my fiftieth to get five, like.

Five rappers that like I grew up and having them over for dinner, like rock Kim Krs One Caine.

People don't know you make beats, bro all you that grand is nice on the keys.

I used to say about beats that I retired, man, because you know, to me it said I was. She called me quincy bones, called me pissed beats. She was like, you know, because you know, she she's like, where's the melody? Like you know, I'm like, look, look it's not it's R and B is a different you know. But her thing was, you're spending too much time doing it for not getting a check, you know. But I just I love it, man.

I love music.

And when I listened to a song, I don't listen to the lyrics.

I listen to the music. Like what's the drum track, What's what's the bassline doing?

What's so?

You know I retired from making beats, but you make a beef for Rhapsody, Yeah, Rhapsody dunk. In fact, I went to the studio with nine Wonder back in the day and I was trying to I was trying to chop to Charalam Shalamar climax song, and I was I couldn't get what I wanted, So I put on to me, put on still, and I chopped up the beginning part and put some drums over it.

And she heard it. She was in the studio, and she went in and put it on her mixtape before she before she blew up. And so but I always loved music.

So you're gonna get five legends to come to your birthday?

Yeah, I gotta.

I gotta figure out to get five rappers that I grew up that were like and I know those three. I gotta figure the other two. But it'd be fun to bring them in and just just chop it up with them.

Trick question, Uh, who would you like to see on All the Smoke? But but who would I like to see on our show? But you have to help us get your answer on the show.

Get get that person on the show, Obama, I think that'd be cool.

You heard what I said, though, right, you have to help us get that person on the show.

Let me take somebody else.

Think of somebody else, if anyone could probably get over, probably great to get it.

Silver's been on right yet, Adam, Yeah, I think we can get that done.

I want to ask him, can I get some of my money back now?

He looked at everything that's going on and looked at the brawl, like, do you really think should have took my money?

We was at work.

I want to ask him that seriously.

But Adam always says that I'm repeating what Alan Adam says, but he works for me. He says that, so I'll repeat. We appreciate that, but that'd be nice, that'd be good. I think he would do it too.

Got something, bron they'll let you leave empty handed. All the smoke gear from my new line that's dropping, or can they get that? All the smoke dots store if you didn't know, now you know, go grab some. You might not look as good as us in it.

But you can you can try.

You can try. Well, gee, man, we appreciate you We want to make sure you know how important you were to us man as a as a mentor, as an athlete, the way you live your life off the court as well. I mean, you've just been that dude, and we really feel like you know you're still one of the greatest players of all time, and so we really appreciate your time stopping bib and chasing your ass for three years. You finally got you. Make sure you check out this book out now where and make it the book.

Get everywhere Amazon bookstores. It's a good story man game out now. Happy you finally.

I appreciate y'all, man, and I admire with y'all are doing. Y'all y'all killing it man, and the feeling is mutual.

So when you here, like I.

Said, the fact that you got to unload, that's a heavyweight to carry saying.

If you read and you guys need to write books at some point when the time is right. Tell y'all got stories complete everybody.

You know what I'm saying. I'm telling you.

Puzzle pieces together. G thank you man, appreciate sh me. This is how I know it's something some feelings expressed in here. You ain't getting no fresh cut on them on the cover. That was on purpose, trust me, I.

Know, I know it was.

It was a tension, you know, that symbolism with that.

Yes, I can't wait for I'm telling y'a should write a book that's a wrap.

See y'all next week. Period, Go get the book.