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Welcome back all the Smoke ind twenty twenty four.
Jackie's code is a bitch outside day two over a but it's hot in here.
Yeah.
Yeah, we definitely, we definitely haven't turned up.
I've been chasing twine down for a minute because I think there's a lot of misconceptions about him as a person, him as a player, but just also how motherfucking cold he was first and fore. So man, we finally made it happen. Welcome to the show, and twine Walker, appreciate you, bro.
Appreciate our real brothers. Yeah, so one of our real brothers before we get started too. Man. Congratulations to man. I love you guys changed the game up, man. So I'm on the outside inspired by what you guys are doing. Man. You know, I reach out to you all the tide, trying to hopefully one day be in that space with you guys. So congratulations, man, you guys have changed the narrative than getting us a platform, the shot stories, the right way.
Go speak your truth. I mean, let's get right to it. I mean again, there's a narrative out there. Before I asked this question. We had inman Shepherd on and he spoke so highly of you or how you're still so impactful within the community, what you do inside of Chicago, what you've done inside of that city. You know, they say you spent all your money and you were on bad times. I've heard conflicting things, but they say outside of that, you've never changed as a person.
You've always been you. You've always been giving.
You'll give the shirt off your back, even when they said you didn't have it, you were still giving it. So that's what kind of makes me think. But talk to us just about that time, and you know, with with the money and the issues or the issues you had, and how.
You've been able to kind of climb out of that and reinvent yourself.
Well, obviously everything has some truth to it. So I mean, obviously I played in the league. I was very fortunate. I made over one hundred and eight million dollars playing over a thirteen year career, had a really good shoot deal, so I you know, I've probably seen one hundred and thirty million dollars. So I made a ton of money in my career. But I also wanted. You know, I
did a lot of good things too with it. But I think when you hear guys talk about stories like especially like man SHUMPERD, they just seen the times that I will have host events in my city, invite you guys, guys like yourself down and bring them into the sea. So they got a chance to know me on a personal level, as well as my teammates too as well. So I think everybody can always form opinion because I did live in a very expensive lifestyle. I mean, I
come from a family. I'm the oldest of six man, so when I got it, I wanted to make sure they was good. I wanted to enjoy it. So that was That's definitely a true part of my story. I think obviously what happened to me and people don't really talk about it no more, is that when I found bankruptcy, I had a situation in Vegas happened at the same time. So that's what made it look really like, Wow, he don't got no money. So I was in Vegas training, you know, I know, Joe Bunazar out there working out
with the guys. Stay out there. Six weeks, man, I lost a million dollars six weeks. Yeah, So I was like, man, I'm like, how the hell hem? I ain't want to pay him a million? So, you know what I'm saying, I'm trying to figure out the most creative way to get around it. So I took a buy out from him, like well, how can I you know, I mean, figure this out and end up working a deal out with them. But in the process of me working the deal out with them, we know Vegas. You know, people they I
was in Vegas hanging out. What they do? They it should have warrant for my arrest because I hadn't paid yet, trying to speed up the process. So a lot of people don't know that. But they was able to do that. After forty five days, once they found air complaint, they were able to, you know, actually issue a warrant. So I was in Vegas. They knew I was in Vegas planning. Actually I was in Nevada, playing the golf tournament in Tahoe like Taho, you know the tournament that you see
Steph and all the guys playing there. So I was playing the golf tournament and I'm out the second night. I'm out the second night and the police come up to me. I'm talking about this two in the morning. I'm drunk. I'm like, I'm having a good time. They're like, we need to talk to you in the back. I'm like, what I do. They're like, well, we have a warrant, you know, for your arrest. So come to find out it was Vegas mission a warrant and forcing me to
pay the money. So I had to pay nine hundred thousand in order to get out to that that jam like the next day. So Noviada people were really good to me. So I ended up flying to Vegas and ended up taking the situation and taking the fire year probation plea deal and had to pay them back now one hundred thousand. But I did it in the way that it was. It was ready for pessionals. They handled it the right way. Put me on the payment plan, you know what I mean. A hundred thousand, you know
what I mean? Here one hundred and fifty this time. So it worked out. But the negative press be came behind it was so bad. Everybody thought I was broke. I was going through this big situation. I just was mad at myself, the one that had to pay it. So I was stubborn and you know, when the court and let the court play out, and the court gave me, you know, a payment plan and play it off. I didn't want to. You guys know this. We don't want to write no check for no happening now now one
hundred thousands. So I was trying to avoid that. Yeah, so you know what I mean. So I don't want to you don't want to write that type of check. So it was an unfortunate situation that played out in the media right now. I didn't really get a chance to really explain my story, and it was something that we knew that I was going through. So at the same time that this process was going through over the three month period, go and behold what happens. I'm in.
I'm heavily involved in the real estate deal in Chicago real estate company with me and a friend of mine at the time. And y'all know two thousand and eighty recession here, Yeah, I get caught up in it. So a lot of people don't understand the way my company was set up that we would basically borrow money from banks. So I would put my personal financial portfolio up and we were borrowing money from banks and then do our construction.
So once we set up the business, everything was taking care of itself, but I still got these loans that we got to pay once to the projects are complete. And the recession hit at the same time that I'm going through this process, and I'm like, man, it's too much bread going out and just talking to the lawyers. They was like, hey, it's probably better. There's nowhere around it. You're the personal guarantee of this company. You're going to be on the hook for this. You might as well
file bankruptcy and just start over. And that's the instructions that I got. I was living in Floyd at the time. That's one of the best places to file bankruptcy, and I just took that path and that's where everything got there. But at the same time that I was going through something that was really real, the Vega situation happened, so people thought all torn through his money. He did lost
his money gambling. NA I lost the million dollars gambling, but I also want a million dollars before too them, So I don't know what the bottom number is, but you know what I'm saying. So it went back and forth so that it was disheardening because people thought that's what it was. And obviously you want to explain yourself, but you guys know how idea sometimes you just don't.
Especially whether you don't have to or just have the right outlet or platform to do it, you know what I mean. Because back then what was said was they swore that's the truth, no matter what. You know what I mean, So that there wasn't these kind of outlets to be able to sit down and tell this back then when it happened.
That's true to it, because like twelve was probably was that started, like social media, I didn't really have the platforms to really to really do it. I remember doing the story It's Crazy and sitting on you guys platform ESPN. Jeremy schaff called me to do an interview. Yeah, so I went did the interview. I'm thinking, I'm gona get an opportunity to get on this platform like we're doing right now, talk and tell my story. He took the whole story and twisted another way. And that was that
that that like that killed me right there. He made it seem like, you know, Michael Jordan and all those guys had me gambling. I lost all my money gambling. Never knew the whole real estate part of the business aspect of it. So that was that was a little that was a little tough part about it, and that's what kind of made me shy away from the media and really want to get my own platform and do my own documentary and tell my own story, control your own area.
Yeah, so to being able to obviously, like you said, probably came through one hundred and thirty million, going through what you go through. First of all, what did you learn and what was your process of kind of rebuilding The.
Learning process is that I thought that I wish I would have waited till my careers over with to do a lot of investing, you know, Trusting somebody else, especially with that type of money was probably the biggest mistake. And that's what I learned, and that's what I try to always make sure I tell you the guys that's in the league now coming up. You know, we retired a pretty good young age, you know what I mean, retired thirty thirty thirty five, So you gonna have plenty
of time to invest your money do business deals. And I think that's probably the biggest mistake that I made, is just trying to do things while I'm playing and not trusting people and not taking, you know, the initiative to be in front of those type of deals, and it backfired on me. Unfortunately. I ended up with a business partner who ended up Actually it's crazy how life works.
He ended up going to jail. But at the same time that I'm in the bankruptcy, he looked going to jail for something that was nothing to do with me, some other mortgage for our stuff. So let's just tell you. So, I was just with a bad You know, we make some mistakes in life. You meet bad people. Everybody's not going to be one hundred, and you live and learn. So that probably was just some of the things that
I regret. You wish you could have those moments over, but you know, you live and learning and you try to move on and try to make it a learning tool. I always thought it should be a learning tool for a lot of other athletes, because we all sometimes get caught up in there and we focusing on basketball and we let other people hadle Our business grew up on the South side Chicago.
They say the south side got the offense and the west side got the defense.
Is it true? Yes? And no. See I'm tricky though, Jack. See, I'm south Side, but I went to Catholic school, Okay, so I was very you know what I mean. So when I grew up, gangs and drugs was really infested in the community, and public schools was kind of tough to go to. So I ain't My mom wasn't having me go to public school, so you know, she sent me to private school. So it was a little different for me than some of the other guys in the
public school. So I never went through that. Like they had to play at three fifteen because again they can't play at night game. I played seven thirty, so you know what I'm saying, they come to my game. I played on Fridays, the Saturday nights. They playing on Mondays and Tuesdays and Wednesdays with you. So it was just a different I had it a little different. I would play against those guys and tournaments and obviously in camps and all that, but I didn't have to go through that,
you know what I mean. I saw. I was so grateful for my mom to be able to and we struggled, man, I can tell you a quick story. So I was so I shouldn't even went to Camp school. I couldn't afford to go, so the school had a scholarship program. So I get to my senior year, they like, to one, you still old eight thousand. I'm like, y'all ain't gonna let me walk. I got to graduate. They ain't said
my transcript to Kentucky. They got me on hole and I would have talked to the principal and he was like, look, we're gonna graduate you. You did a lot for the school. And he was like, we're gonna let you walk across stage. But that that that diplomba gonna be empty. That look that ain't gonna be empty now, so you know when you open it up, it was empty. But I still walked across stage, still graduated. That's him. My transk was down. So two years later when I turned pro, I went
and got my diploma. I owed him like nine thousands, so I paid him and end up getting my diploma. But that's how crazy it was, you know what I'm saying. So that's how thankful I was. Even my mom could really afford it, but she always sent me to private school. Gave me more of a easier chance to make it through the city. I'm from the inner city, but I didn't have to deal with the public school, and and my school was all boys too, so it was it was a different dynamic for me. So it was great for me.
My twins are in an all boys high school. I don't know how the fuck they do it. I don't know how they do it. You went to one too, That's why you act the way you act though.
You know, just sports, you just you just just wrap your man around sports, you know what I mean. I bet you all your boy just talked sports.
That's how you got their girlfriends who were some of the other pros, whether it be basketball, other sports that were kind of in Chicago at the time he was in high school.
Man, you know what was great about Chicago, It was like, man, like thirty of us. Our runs were like crazy. You gotta think I'm from the era where it was me and my Findley couldn't Richardson, Bobby Simmons. Uh. Then we had the young guys ta will buying them, you know what I mean, We had some you know what I'm saying, that's not on top of you know, Juwan Howard, you know what I mean. So we had so many guys that were from the city, you know what I mean.
So our runs used to be legendary, you know what I mean. And I used to watch out in La O U C l A. We go back there and play, but we had the same type of run. It wasn't like film like that. But we would have twenty five thirty pros in the gym, or at least guys that played major Division one basketball. So it was it was unbelievable. Every day run you can, you get your work out. I never think about lifting weights a getting shots. So our runs was three four hours long.
They're real. I remember. That's why I remember enough to cut you off.
Jack.
When I was in UCLA, just you would come late, put your shoes on, and go start instantly cooking, like no stretching business doing this bro, no the warm getting jumpers. Toe would come late and come in there and just start frying mothers.
I'm like, damn, man, actually love go out there. So I used to come out to that time because I used to the AU basketball so I used to sponsor the team. So we were l A would go to Vegas, La, Vegas, La trips. So I was like, man, I'm going to La and Vegas. I can get my workout on too. And that's how I used to come out there. I used to love y'all run now used to la running special.
That was all the real, like pro pros, all stars and everything.
You ever you have a hoopy running fields. I did hoop of running fields. And I'm gonna tell you how. So Ronnie's a little older than me, and you're older than me. So I played against them in the summertime. I never played against him in a real game, but we played in the summer league against each other. But unbelievable athlete man like, it was crazy. So I didn't get a chance to go against that KG running them two guys together, I didn't get a chance to go
against them. So I'm a little upset about that. I'm a little pissed about that I didn't get a chance to go against them. That was but they they changed the city though high school basketball when Kevin transferred to for that first year, and obviously we all know what happened to Ronnie. Proably would have been the pro with us one day. You know what I mean, the accident.
Act because I talk about all the time, but you've seen it first hand.
Oh no, he was definitely that guy. Yeah, definitely, well respected. People loved him. It's just the accident killed him. And then when Kevin came, they had the city on lock for a public school team. They had the city on lock fagging right high school.
Yea, I've been talking to Ronnie on DMS. We're gonna get him, sit down with it.
Give me your all time Chicago starting five.
Why would you do that to me?
And and what city you're gonna put your five up against?
Two? Three or four? I like that, And I'm gonna go with two point guards. I'm going with Isaiah Thomas and Deck Rosey Killer. That's that's that's my that's my back court. Now. I gotta put myself in there, of course, come on now, So I'm one of the forwards. And then Walker Gouie see y'all see, I know, I know Michael gauhi yo number one player in the country, I know. And then that center, it's a toss up, you know what I mean at the center spot. But I gotta
go Juwan. I gotta go with Juwan. I know he not a typical center. I'm gonna go with Juwan though.
Eddie Curry, huhg Eddie Curry.
Was he from there? Was Edie from Chicago?
Yes? Yes, Ben when No. Obviously being got killed at junior year in high school, but I didn't get a chance to play against being so I saw footage Raseean Griffin, Yeah, and Tommy Hamilton. They were good. Yeah, but when you talk about the best, but they was you know what made them unique. That was the first time that was kind of two seven footers in high school on the same team. So that's what made them good. And they they that's what made them really special. I wanted to
go to King when they both was there. It's just won enough balls, man, you know what I mean. We weren't gonna be able to get know shots up. You had to go inside to them first. I wasn't gonna do that like that, but no, that's what center's gotta be jawing. Yeah, and Derek and n Isaiah you can take your pick right.
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I was like playing against Donovan McNabb in high school.
No, got it wrong, Jack, That was my teammate for four teammates play with ready to go read it wrong?
Yeah, played with him for four years. Unbelievable. Different because I was he a point guard or was just a stock to guard stocky two guard, secondly scoring the team, but super athletic. But you know, it was even more fun watching him is watching him play in football. They won't stay tightle I think twice they would ranked number one, like I think them more in the country for a while a couple of those years, and it was crazy.
He was a real option quarterback. He would literally throw the ball fifteen times and run it twenty five times. Like that's how he played. So when he went to Syracuse, I couldn't believe how great of a past he was. I because you never seen it in high school. You only see throw about and they was really really good. So they were blowing people out. So he wouldn't even played the fourth quarter most times. But Don's a real good friend of mine. Still see Don, he's you know,
he left Chicago. He's in the in Phoenix now that way with his family. But unbelievable athlete man and fun fact, you know, he was on the championship. I mean he's on the team that plays in the championship. He didn't play, you know, he was one of the first guys that made schools recruited for both sports. So he was on Syracuse all season, so it was got pretty cool. I played against him in that Champs. Yeah, so he was actually on the team. That was part of the when
they recruited him. He had to be able to play play both sports. So the football season was over with people actually joined the basketball team. That's dope. Yeah, a lot of people don't know that that's that he that he played.
Uh, you end up playing with Rick Patino on Kentucky. Were there any other colleges you really thought about going to?
Or is always Kentucky Midwest guy, so obviously I was coming. I was right behind that Michigan run, so definitely thought about going to Michigan. But I did like all of us did. Men, I had ten home visits. I went on five visits Michigan, Kentucky, you n LV Illinois. So I took my regular tip five visits, have my ten home visits and really kind of let the process play itself out. But I just love Kentucky style play. Mass
Burn was one of my favorite players. Mass Burn was there, and I liked it because he was able to know he can handle he could shoot the three, So I felt like, man, I could fit into that system right there. And then coach was telling me that mass was coming out that so we're gonna have room for you to come in and be able to play right away. So that's what really intrigued me to go to go to
Kentucky because of the style of play. And I saw mass burn, so I was like, man, he gonna let me do and the ain't gonna take my game away from him.
Talk to us about Rick Patino and just your whole Kentucky experience.
Love him to death. Man, it was unbelievable for me. When I came in. I was, you know, like an all of us. I was a young high head, you know what I mean, thought I knew everything, and he humbled me and taught me how to work hard and put me in a good position to be the best basketball player. Because I thought I was a point guard. No I did. I thought it was a point guard. I mean, you were, I mean, but I thought I wanted to play the point. He was like, look, I'm
gonna put you at this point forward, stack right. I played the four me and watch McCarty. So we played you know, waltching not y'all know how wal was. He was kind of a four to two, and we played the four and he was like, I'm gonna still let you handle. I'm gonna let you do all your things and let you shoot the three, but we're gonna have a traditional point guard on the floor. And I the only thing I could do was stak him man and
even take it a step further. After my rookie year, you guys know, he came to Boston and coach me in Boston and made the All Star team, turned me loose, put me at the four. When I came into the pros, I was at the three, you know. I mean, I had a good rookie year, ever, seventeen and a half, made First team All Rookie Team, played well, but he was like, your advantage is at the four.
Quickness.
He was like, look, you gotta go to the four. He said, I know you don't want to, but he said, that's what you're gonna be.
What was your playing wait when you first came in the league.
Came in at two thirty five. I think when I went in the draft, got to like two forty five and tapped out with the heat you know, you know pat Riot on that's around. So I played it like two fifty with the heat on the on the on the low seven eight percent body sack with past solid.
Yeah solid. But in Boston when I first came in, I was like two thirty five, got to like two forty five, played around and wait and just stayed there, stayed in between two fifty five, like no more than two fifty five when I played, because I had to guard some three. You know what I mean. That year we won a championship, I'm guarding that run, the whole run, I'm guarding. Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, you know y'all niggas, I can't chase y'all. I'm chasing y'all around. Y'all, I'm
chasing y'all around. Man, these screens Richard Jefferson, Josh howdee? Boys like this moving? That's how we But that's if coach loved you D. It was like, twe if you want to you want these minutes, I ain't budgeting on you. D. You know you had a special special love for you D. So I moved to the three.
Whatever it takes.
But before we get back to the league ninety six National Championship Loaded Team TV McCarty.
Nine pros nine Pro nine pros. I was just talking to somebody earlier about this today. Just unbelievable team. The best thing that ever happened to us was that year, and people, and you guys can understand us. In college, we went on our European trip, so we got a chance that year to go on to European trip. Was going to be ranked number one, but that trip gave us an idea of what we can really be. And to be honest with you, man, our practice was tougher
than our games. And that's not bragging you pros, but our practice used to be strong because we was fighting for minutes. Yeah, I mean, you know, I let the team in minutes and I think I only average like twenty seven to twenty eight minutes, but our margin the victory was twenty four to twenty five, you know what I mean. So we blew out a lot of teams, so we didn't get a chance to finish a lot
of games. But I love that team were still together today. Man, We got a group chat that we all stay on, you know, wishing each other happy birthday, holidays, everything, and we stay in really good contact, really special group and that we're still all friends too to this day. So I love that about that group.
Did y'all have like an A team and a B team?
Like, let me tell you what's funny. We didn't have an AMB team. But you know what he did start that year, He started a JV team. So let me tell you why I'm asking you that.
I know why you asked me, because we bust their ass when I was their old kid.
Yep, I was a senior high school and they brought up see that because y'all didn't play. Y'all was y'all was the A team to me? Yeah? No, no, no, this is what happened. Nazi Muhammad, Yes, Nazi Muhammad came in and signed with US. Nazi people don't notice. Naves was like three fifty three sixty when he came into college, lost one hundred pounds because he used to be on him every day. Man, he had to work out twice a day plus practice get all his ways. But he
created the JV team for NAS. Really, yes, so Nas had his own schedule, so he had him and like Wayne Turner, Wayne played a couple of games. But stack don't get you busted. It wasn't y'all. Y'all wasn't there. There was some managers on the team too.
Like we was. We was in high school. I know that everybody's in college. That's true, that's you know what I'm saying. So in my mind, oh yeah, it's going down. We bust that ass. But but at the same time, you know, I'm gonna keep it poking. We knew, y'all wasn't there, you know what I'm saying. We knew all the best players and starters wasn't there. But that still was a game for us to get up. That was
definitely ours so he could be out to play. That's crazy, huh right true facts you right, Okay, wasn't a regularigh school either.
That's true. Ron, I've heard stories, but now I'm saying that that but that team was creating. I never knew that. Nobody know that. That was created to get him in shape. Yeah, get him in shape, and they give him some playing times. I mean, I think it was another player on the team. I can't think of start year, Ye want year, We wanted t D Tony Delk, Waltter McCarty, myself, Derek Anderson that was, and.
Mark Pope with none of them in that screenage, Mark Pope, Mark Pope.
And sometimes Pope won that Jeff Shepherd. You know we got ship she is that his the sons that could take that's that's your son.
I knew the last thing. I was like, I think, just like yeah.
Just like him. Ye yeah, you got Jeff yep. But you know, Derek transferred over and he set out the first year he had to sit out. Transferred from Ohio State. That's right, that's right, Yeah, that's right, that's right. From Louisville, Fromville. Yeah, so he was at Ohio State, so you had to sit out. So and then he came back the next year. You know, he went to the championship game twice a c L. They went it back to back, easy, yep, they went. We was loaded though, I mean we was loaded.
We had nine pros, now legit pros, all guys that now know guys got drafted fifty seven fifty everybody first round, early second that's dope.
So you win a championship, you leave in a loaded ninety six draft, you go sixth. Uh just for everyone, you know, that's Iverson Cole, Steve Nash, Jermaine, O'Neil, ray, Allen, yourself, Marlburry.
Canby, I do it.
Raheem Paysia uh any any crazy stories. Obviously you guys have a legendary shoot for Slam. I think this is Slam thirty year anniversary. Uh this year, But any crazy stories about this photo or or memorable parts.
You know what? I just for me? That process I worked out for nine teams, bro Like that process was hard, Like I don't know how they do it now, and you know they lot, but I worked out for nine teams. I had to really like, you gotta work like very had you working. And the best story I got member in Minnesota. They brought all the wings there, me, John Wallace, Walt went there with Dante Jones. It was it was wing heavy and they just brought us all in at once.
It was like play one on one like this there, roll the ball out, play came.
On top, Come on, man, come on.
And I remember I remember Kevin McHale. They picked fifth and he was like, to one, I gotta take a point guard. He's like, I want to take you back. They had just took Kevin the year before. He was like, I can't take another forward and so he ended up going Steph at four. I think Stephan went four to Minnesota. They switched, they flip flopped and the day of the draft, Eric Montross got traded rest in Peace. He got traded
to Dallas and they flip flopped. So Dallas moved to nine and we went to Boston went to six because they didn't think I was gonna you didn't make it, and I ended up getting picked by number six. But I wouldn't changing it for the world. Man my workout in Boston, Man Larry Bird read all back. Emil car was the head coach GM, Dennis Johnson was still alive. I mean, you gotta think Tommy Heinsen, Jojo White, the history all these guys in my workout, bro like this.
I mean, you know that the tradition, it was like you wanted to be there, you know what I mean, if you got an opportunity to be there. So they end up moving up on draft night and taking me six.
It's said it's the greatest draft class in the history of the game.
I think, so I'm just being biased. If you look at like the second round picks and impactful guys were on the teams, just take a peek at it, like and sometimes just look at it and be like, how impactful guys was on the team. These one guys just got drafted. They had some impacts, you know, on the game.
So that's why that's why I always think that that's why, that's what my argument comes in that you know what I mean, I know a lot of people you don't think about the Lebron class, right it is that they got it one of the users. Yeah, but I think it's a fair argument. I think we number one. I think I mean, I remember them doing the special, doing the interview for it, and they was talking about them. When I really started looking at it and really analyzing them.
You look at our second round picks and guys that have been productive in the NBA. Probably it's definitely the best draft.
What was your relationship with Son of a Camera and Adidas?
Wow, man like a father figure for me. So you guys know this. So when AAU basketball started when I when we was coming out, they changed. So the camps. So my sophomore year, I went to Nike camp. This back when you had to go to class too, Remember that you had to go to class and go to camp. So I went to Nike camp my sophomore year. And then the next year Sunny had started Adidas. Our AU program was Adidas program and Sonny was like, Hey, we
want you guys to come there. And what really helped my career is that back then, tell you another story. You had to play with your state. They didn't know how they mix the teams up and you had They didn't mix the teams up this year. You had to n C double a change the rules, so you had to play with your state. And mister Irvin rest in Peace was like, listen. He was the coach of our team. He ran the AU program. He was like, look, I'm
gonna put you at point guard. Well, like, I'm gonna play you at point for the thing, and I ain't gonna lie for the first five days. I tore a camp up at the point guard spot. So I went from like top thirty in the country. I left that like fifth in the country rank ranking rise. Ran out of gas like on the sixth seventh day because you have to be that seven day, So I ran out of gas towards the end. But I had a great time. This is the year Fleet Lopez was number one in
the country. Steph was like three or four in the country. So it was that year, but I ended up moving up to number five leaving that camp and it was history after that, but Sonny took care of me. Man made sure I was good and the funny story. So my sophomore year we finished up, we win a title and you know, you know, back then the internet was a little different. So my boy called me. One of my good friends like, man, you should you should come out.
I'm like, you know, back then, we want to think about coming out at least doing three, you know, maybe just stay off four. So I'm like, no, I don't think I'm ready. I'm like nah. He was like, man, call Sonny Man. So I called Sonny, say, Sonny, hey, I'm thinking about coming out. What you think about this? He was like, give me a day. Called me back, and he was like, son I don't like to encourage guys to come out of school early. Gave me the whole speech, but he was like, you a love to
make sure it was good. Yeah. Man. So I'm like, I'm nervous and I don't know. You know, Rick Bettino, we you know, don't get me. Man's a father figure. So we was kind of scared of coach too, though, you know what I'm saying. So I go in the office, I said, coach, Man, I think about going pro. He was like okay. He was like, uh, give me, give me forty eight hours. It's like, all right, called me
forty eight hours to his house now. So I'm thinking, like, Manna tell me, you know what I mean, gotta stay. He was like, uh, no, we're coming out. He was like, no, we're coming out. This is what we're Finnah due, We're gonna bring in three agents. I'm we're gonna interview three agents in front of us. We're gonna make sure we got three agents, you know what I mean, and we're gonna come out. He was like, tell your mom them to get ready, but we're gonna come out of school.
So I was like, man, dope. So he sat in every meeting with me, with all the agents. I ended up signing with David Falk. At the time, they was Fame. They were called Fame at the time. They had represented Jordan Patrick Ewing, Juwan Howard and basically he was like, we're going with them, Sonny v Carol came in sign here. No, I came in right, So funny story. You guys gonna let this story. So come in. We get in the meeting, me coach Patine on him, David falk We in the
meeting and Sonny like, deal off the table. I'm like, what I got? Deal off the table? Like, I don't deal with that motherfucker.
Who are you talking about?
They fuck? So something to do with MJ. Bro don't got nothing to do with me, Yes, something to do with MJ. Don't got nothing to do with me. Y'all gotta think I'm nineteen. I'm sitting here. I don't know what's going on. They arguing like cancer dogs in the meeting, like going at it. So I just stepped back. I just let it go by. And it was another lady that was with Adidas and she just poured saint to the side and said, you know, it's not fed at this kid to be. Y'all got this going on, and
he upped the deal. So he uped the deal for me. He felt bad and gave me like another two hundred and fifty thousands. I ended up signing with Adidas when I first came out because obviously I had the relationship with Sonny, but they got the deal done. But it was crazy. I tell that story because it was crazy to watch Dy would fuck and Sonny argue like that over MJA.
What was it. What was it? I just watched the movie not too long ago.
What was it called The Air, Like I think they had a little bit of it in there.
They have it like allegedly that Sonny went behind Davids back to get the family.
Yeah, that's what it must have been. Something with that bro. I'm talking about they fighting like cast and dogs, arguing. I don't know what's going on. I'm trying to get my little my little shoe deal. I'm trying to get off. I'm like, man, I'm trying to get my little deal and move around. But that was a that was a crazy story, crazy situation. I'd up going with Sunny because I obviously built a relationship in high school with him
and he did nothing. It was great. I signed. I played all thirteen years on the.
Dudas employee number eight. How fun was that?
I Mean these national TV commercials talked to us about that process and how it came out.
I was great. Man. I owned it to Jim Gatto. Man. Jim Gatto was with Adidas at the time, and he basically came up with this whole campaign, you know, imember new kids on the block. So they was like, you know, kind of put that thing with it. I wore number eight. The number came because if you guys know, ain't no numbers left in Boston. I wore twenty four. I wanted twenty four. I think Coozy is twenty four, so that you know that's up in the raptors. So it was
just one no numbers. So eight just kind of stumbled on me. So it wasn't nothing significant to the number eight. It was just on the draft. Now you know, I'm happy, I'm geeked up. They're like, we ain't got no number. We got twenty four, hig list of numbers, we got which one you want? I was like, just give me eight. And it just so it was just really random and nothing to it. But and they just built this whole campaign man around his shoe and it was great. It
was nothing that I really thought of. It was all Adidas and really kind of pinpointed with the Celtics and doing this a big market and they could do a lot with me, and it was great. It was a great experience. Got to do a huge national commercial for them, and then obviously Jack no, we got to travel the world. But that was the unique time though too though, you know,
I mean me, Jack Trace, Grady, Kobe, Jermaine O'Neill. They were like you know, they were It felt good because they were doing the They were really getting into Adidas basketball. Anybody Adidas know, No, they laid it had on soccer and they were really twitching the narrative and really getting into to basketball and really giving us a global opportunity to be famous, you know what I mean, to build our brand and giving us insight on the shoes we
wanted to wear. They were just changing everything. So it was it was great to be a part of that. I always enjoyed my thirteen years with these number of great memories and they treated me great.
You know how they go the boxes they used to Oh yeah, I remember the twenty people.
Remember at the end, you had to spend a certain amount of money every summer we was buying the whole neighborhood ship three strike down.
You gotta get your number in it. You gotta think if you tell your allotment was one hundred thousand, that really was two, right, It was really two hundred thousand.
You know how hard people thinking that it's hard to spend that much money on these You can't get anything you want to. But it's just so much money. It's hard to spend all. Yeah, ship, I wish I had a little allotment right now.
Real it's how we can't get a pair of shoes from now. How y'all feel you got to buy shoes? I still feel something way with that ship.
I ain't.
I don't buy ten of shoes like I don't get the boxes like I used to with Jordan.
But I got so many shoes from all years.
Stupid.
Yeah, it's crazy. So what about like a new pair come out about Lewis? Yeah, let me tell you what I was mad about. Remember when yeasies first came out.
Those used to be a lot, those used to come in the p I.
Couldn't get a pair. I was hot. I was like, yeah, went out for thirteen years. Y'all give me no shipes though. Yeah, I couldn't get no. I couldn't get no yeezy. I'm like, man, I got thirteen they like, yo, you know it's ship.
The quote when you said, when they say white, shoot so many threes, you said, because there's no force, because the.
Man what we're doing right now, All Star Weekend had too many in the night before I would keep it, which you know, you come here and got media requests, you know, the media day, you're doing your media day and at that time, and what really was irritating because for two years Jim up went out. So when Patino left, Jim O'Brien took over, who was assistant coach at Kentucky and obviously came to Boston with coach Patino, but he
took over. But so he knew my game, no, obviously from top to bottom, and he when coach Patino left, he was like, look, i want you to shoot eight the ten threes a game. See a lot of people don't know that. I know, we're watching a three point game now and the guys shooting. He told me shoot eight the ten a game. You know, Paul was doing all the heavy lifting, you know, getting to the basket. Like look yo, he like shoot eight to ten a game. So once he instilled that confidence, sent me to shoot
shoot that many should I made. I'm making that I'm shooting six hundred, seven hundred three is for a season? Easy? Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So it's like it changed it up. So at All Star Break, I'm just getting tired of the question because it was kind of only me, probably Rashie Wallace, but Rashie would shot as mini as me. He was shooting the three. It wasn't really no big guys stepping out really shooting threes. Derek Coleman was still
in the league around that time. He was shooting a little bit of them, so it wasn't really no big guy shooting the three. So it just one comment. So I used to get like it was crazy in Boston. Y'all know how Boston fans is, They all boo you one play, you make it, then that nextually the next one. So it was just one of those things that people had to get used to. But I always credit, you know, Jim O'Brien for that, forgiving me the confidence and actually
making that a part of our team. And we went far. We went obviously went to the Eastern Conference finals, playing that way we end up, and we went to the second round. We we went against that New Jersey run tough. They was tough, Kenyan mar and Jay Kid, Richard Jefferson. We couldn't get past them. Man, they knocked us out two years in a row.
But I mean, you was, I mean, if you think about where the game was then and where it's at now it's normal. But you were shooting almost eight threes a game, led the league in attempts for three years.
Yeah, I made like, man, I made one hundred and eight men, I probably could have made three. Oh eaight bro right now, seriously, my game would translated to nationaltility. Yeah, that's a premium now you shoot the three, so I would have definitely been I always tell people that, I say the game now is different. I remember to get booed for that.
Man, Like you have to go inside out.
People don't know, like the game the ball if you had a big or even if you didn't have a big, just to get.
The offense and had to go inside out.
Yeah, it's like the way the game is now. People thought it would never be played that way. I think, and I credit I think Golden State opened it up to where people start looking at it differently because they was able to shoot the three and yeah and win shoot the.
Three and died by three.
Yeah, and they won the championship with it. So I think that that changed it up, and I think that's what allow other teams and other organizations and coaches to believe.
That the league it's a copycat league.
Oh, no question.
Ninety eight, Paul Pierce comes to town. Just what's what's the earliest memory of memory of Paul?
Tough ship talker, you uh, still burn super super confident and kind of like, you know, demanded his you know his role, you know what I mean. He came in and people don't understand this, and you guys know this. He came in with a huge chip on the shoulder because Paul supposed to win the top five. So when he slid the ten he was. He came in mad and obviously his work ethic was tremendous. We hadn't seen nobody like him with Mitt Rain's game. You know, his
body was kind of different. You think he's slow, he ain't slow. You think he ain't athletic. He's athletic. He'd knuck on you. And you know, his confidence was to the roof. But one thing I can say, Paul came in respecting me. We became friends instantly off the court, and I think that's what made it easy for us on the court. We respect each other's game so much. And and you guys know this and a lot of people that when he went through that incident, obviously in
the club and in that situation. It just changed the dynamics, you know what I mean of our friendship obviously, to see somebody go through that and to see how tough he was, how fast he came back because you know us, I know you guys, I would have to get traded. You know what I'm saying. I would have I would have been looking for a little ass man. You know what I'm saying. I would have want some get back. Yeah,
but he locked in. You know what I'm saying, State focused State cloakes on his craft and became a you know, he's gonna be a Hall of Famer now. So you know that's that's that's culos to him for doing.
That and played all eighty two that season.
That's what I'm saying itself. In the mirror, man, you know, used to have like little knicks and stuff from the stabbings, you know, from from the stabbing, and he would just look at it in the mirror. You'll catch him in the bathroom in the mirror. So I think he just used as motivation to me. I never asked him that, but I think that's what he used it. Ass you can do them.
Early to off two thousand playoff battles with with with Philly and Ai and Reggie and in Indiana the Painter or the Piston teams. What was it like early two thousands for you guys in the playoff runs?
It was great because me and Paul were so young. We didn't really know what we was getting ourselves into and what it really took to really get over. So we were just playing our pure talent. I don't think we had the same teams that those guys had, from top to from top to bottom.
He was on the he was on the next team.
No, no, no, Jack, I was on the team. You was on the team. But no, no, no, no, no, no, no no. You sent us home in Indy. Man, that's what we're talking about now. He was talking about No, I was talking about the nest. He's talking about the nest now, said Reggie. He was on that team. Yeah, Okay, I just want to well, if you want to tell the whole story, tell the whole story. Now.
I got suspended that year, but it all came back and sent them home.
Sitting home thirty games. Okay, Okay, I say that because I and Paul talk shit all the time. Okay, I used to go at it First of all, let's start with this. I wasn't on the team the season start, No, I got I wasn't on the team, right, so let's start with that. I got traded back to Boston, right. Yeah, we run off third team. We went like twelve out of thirteen or something to catch that. We finished third in the division. I jump on the team. K we
catch all, y'all? Yeah? Yeah, we played the first right, y'all, sixth seed because Reggie last year.
Yep, because Braun had missed the whole season. Yeah, suspended, so that's what thirty games? Yeah, so we played our first round. I remember this series, y'all beat us in seven games.
You ain't say that. You just said we beat the ship out of y'all. It was you ain't say in seven games, not in seven. But that game sad and I got suspended on some bullshit because I touched the referee a game that was like like two or three. Yeah, me Andain O'Neil getting to push him back. Yep, yeah, Jo getting the pushing match, right. They listen Stu Jackson, I never forget this call. Me was like, yeah, I gotta suspend you. I was like what he was like, Yeah,
those guys from y'all brawl. He was like, I gotta suspend you a game. I got a layer wall down. Jayo was involved in that. We got to suspend you get They suspended me one game. I was man, lost three hundred thousand that game. Game check. I was pissed about that. I said, I was mad, and I think and Paul standing they beat y'all game. Yeah, we meet y'all. Yeah, he beat them to guess a game six? Yeah that that.
Yeah.
Me and Jay y'all getting a fake basketball fight, man, you know, you know, you know we fight, man. You know in the playoffs, we just pushing on each other because they were scared. I took the referee and moved them. I was gonna do nothing. You can't testify, man, he suspended me a game. Let them boys off the hook. But that was Reggie last year. Though, that was last year.
Any good memories from club, isn't it? At Paul's house?
Who told you that?
Yeah?
You know? Well, okay, listen, So I got there. They was already started. So I got traded back to the team. So you know how we get back to the team, Like now, were rolling, we run up. I catched them on the West Coach. We went sixth straight on the West Coast. I catched him on the West Coast. We back. I'm like, man, Paul, are we doing now for the party? Already said yeah, we had the crib had the crib Yeah, clubs, yeah, yeah, that was that was legendary. Well, you know Paul side
because the club's closed it too. So you know Paul thing on going about four or five. Everything you need, everything, everything is there, everything you need.
He bro.
He invited me to a Super Bowl party just last week, and I just knew I couldn't go, So I called him him and take it over there, and I was like, show he's going on? I was. I was glad I didn't go. This ship was popping. I'm like, Paul is still club shisn it? Twenty five years later in the valley Paula loves having a good time.
Yeah, but that's crazy. He told you all that story. That was that was, that was the hangout man. Yeah, he changed the whole dynamics of us. But he had in the crib. That's the only thing that was everybody that he had it in the house. But you know, Boston clothes at two o'clock closed early, but clubs, the club didn't.
Close everything you needed.
Two thousand and two, you guys lose to a tough New Jersey next team, kidd Uh. You and Kmark went at it. Yeah, talk about them battles.
Kmark was tough for me because he was strong, but he had quick feet, so that that was his thing, was athletic. He had quick feet, so he would give me trouble. But I got the green light, so my numbers gonna look good. He was talking about you gonna go ten for twenty six, but I got I got twenty eight, yeah, and twelve, so my numbers look good. But one year he got the best of me. I struggled that whole series, but we salce. I love to go against against Kmark just because of his defensibility, made
you change your game, made you work on it. But they were better than us. They were deep. They can go eight ten. They had two units. We were struggling. We had, you know, it was me and already trying to do it, and their depth just wore us down. Man, when it came down to it, we would get them. They swept us the second year. The first year we went six with them, and then they swept us. It just couldn't and we caught the people don't understand this,
and you guys remember this. We caught that triple double Jason Kidd for two years when he was setting them records. That's the that's the Jason Kidd that we played against, lightning fast Jason Kidd. He obviously ended up shooting better, but this is the dude that gets to the basket. We want to make so many other players better. So we went against that kid that was should have been the MV could have easily been the MVP back to back. So that's and a lot of people don't never talk
about that. But there was two unbelievable years that Jason Kidd had to knock us out. We didn't have anybody, you know, and Kenny my man. Kenny asked, and I love him to death. That's my dog and the great make But Jake was nobody. It was tough Jake Kidd, man, it was tough back then. The finals.
We didn't have nobody. He we beat them in the finals, but ja Kid was so dominant in the finals. They was, but they were trying to trade Tony Parker for him right after the finals. Immediately after the finals. They were trying to trade like that he was that good.
We went against that. That Jason kid was second or nothing, man, and they couldn't get over that hump never stopped me from going to farm. We thought we had him, We felt confident, but there was something. He just turned it on man, and we went up to one in the series. We thought we had him, but dude, I think he averaged a triple double for the series, some crazy like twenty fifteen and fifteen something. It was something crazy, yo, that he averaged for the series.
When does shimmy come about?
Man, it's crazy in college so you know, like I was somebody was sharing with your guys at the college story. So you know, we used to dance, like lock it up there. You know, the campus is no wit in the dorms and stuff like that. We used to mess around and dance and all that. So one time in the game, I just know I got dunk and just started shaking. I'm like okay, and everybody's laughing, and then coach said, look, he said, look, you can dance all you want as long as you get in this press.
He was like, long as you get in a defense. They said, I don't care what you do. So once coach Patino says, lo, I started dancing. Man, So if I get a dunk, it was better to get an ad one. But if I got a dunk and started dancing and get back on top of the ball, look at some of my cars. So I was dunk and then get right on top of the press, get the press. It just became a thing. It was just among us as a team, and then when I got in the league, it just became kind of like part of my soul. Man,
Like I was like something I had to do. We make a run, I make a big shot. It just became like part of me. Only one coach had a problem with it in my career, don Nelson. So I got traded. I got traded to the Maths. I's surprised I get traded now. I got traded to the mass And I got traded right before the season started. So it's preseason. So we playing Sacramento in the preseason game. I get off. It's a preseason game. I get off, I dance, I do a little shake man. After the game.
The first dingy topic game you about the game, it's about me. Hey, we don't do that here. I don't want you to dance on He just call me walk walk. You can't dance here. I'm like, damn coach, he like not here. But you're not gotta respect Nellie. Man, you know what I'm saying. You gotta respect y'all play for y'all know that that's my man. You know I love Nellie, so I had to respect him. So he took it away from me. Man, Yeah, he took it away from me.
Man. Yeah, played a key role into in two thousand and six and the he championship team average thirteen to fourteen points. How did it feel being on that team win the championship playing against the Mavericks.
Man, That's what That's probably the best team I've ever been on.
Man.
To be among those collections of guys, you know, shock, young d Wade coming into his own but Gary so Jay will posey U D And you know, we had this thing that we made up called fifteen strong, and people thought it was a joke, but it really was fifteen strong. I never played on the team in my life and party and played basketball at that level and win the championship, that was like it was like a whirlwind. Bro.
I'm not lying like I was. South Beach was was calling me every night it's you know what I mean? As well as and then we practicing three and a half hours every day like it's this was like this was crazy. But and then the expectations was to win the championship. See a lot of people don't know that year when I got there, we struggled the first ten games.
Is that when? Yeah?
So when I when I signed there, Van Gunny first day called me and he said, listen, I gotta start U D. She was like, I need you to come off the bench. He was started telling me these stories about all the great six men in the world. I mean, I'm I'm I rolled with it. I'm like, all right, coach, I come off the bench. He was like, look, you're gonna be first one in. You're gonna still get your minutes, but I'm gonna start U D. He's earned that right
to be the start and power forward. Like all right, cool. So I basically came off the bench for the first twenty one game. Two games, pat Riley took over. No, bro, you start, you know, we don't.
I don't.
We don't. You make too much money. I play my money. Zach wordz I play my money you start. He was like, you gotta uh play the three. You gotta learn how to guard. I was like, it's like, you didn't gonna start. You need to learn how to play the three, and you're gonna have to learn how to guard. So now I gotta I ain't chasing in a minute, I ain't chased you type of that's chasing all you niggas around the court. I'm used to power forward slow. Now he's like,
you gotta learn how to chase. I was like cool. It was like, look this what I'm gonna do. It's like, I'm gonna sub you out first, and then I'm gonna play with the second unit so you can get your shots. He said, everything going through shock and D way. He said, everything going through them. That's one thing I love about Rides. He's such a straight shooter. You know, he's tough, but he's like, everything going through shock and D way. I'm gonna sub you out early. You played with the second unit.
I'm gonna run one fulk pick and roll for you, turn forwards for you, and and that's how we're gonna roll. And after that, that's how we roll. It was simple as that bro like, I'm chasing all niggas like yah, but I got them two seven foots back. Then go go ahead and beat me. You gotta go in the shock. You gotta go on to Linzo. Y'all know how Lonzo is he getting me up out of there. And you know Alonza don't mind getting dunk on right at all, so you know he gonna put.
Us shock the mother putting you on your back neither.
So. But that that team was great, you know what I mean, that was some great teammates. Man, the commitment, and I always thank Shack for it because he was the one guy that really had that championship experience that kept us together. I remember we get to the finals and I'm like we had doed some nervous like, man, we're in the finals. He like, man, go do what you do. I'm like, what you mean, Like you go
out during the season. I'm like, yeah, go out. So I went to DJ's every night, over with DJ's every night. Like he like, man, don't get drunk, but he like, go out. He like, keep doing what you're doing because you know, you get to the finals the first day, but it's like three hundred media people there. You get to the finals and people don't feel the whole gym field with media. You like, that's a different level. Look
at hey thing about DJs. Yeah, so what's he that confidence and be like, man, do what y'all use to you? You know, man, keep everything insane and were gonna win it. And he was the one guy that we like kind of follow behind even when we was down oh two. He was like, Man, don't worry about we good. Stay doing what you're doing. We're gonna be all right. So that's what made it special to that group. And we was tight, man, like you guys know this and being
the league. Man, you usually donna find fifteen guys together.
Bro, special when you do.
Man, we seven eight guys going to dinner. Every trip. We party in every city. This is your Shackles throwing parties in every city we probably had a party. Only two places we have parties at Utah. Know, ain't nobody partying in Utah? And maybe here, maybe only too Indiana probably the only two places we never every city we went out. But one thing about shack though, where I learned this ship. I'm like, man, how big fellow, how these parties? And he ready to go to the next night.
He never drank drink. He didn't drink. So that's what like threw you for a loop. So you had to like realize that, man, we have. Man. We used to come in you know, you bring it in Paris like now y'all trip smelling it coming out like y'all tripping. But that was that was such a special year man. To be able to win a title with those guys the way we want it. It wasn't traditional. We won fifty two games. It was a three seed. People didn't really think we can win it is. We didn't dominate
the league. It just took us a while. People don't understand Shack missed the first twenty games. He got hurt the first game, so that threw us off and get rhythm. But to be able to come together as one and to win it. The fact that Pat Rally was new to come down and I'm not saying Stan couldn't get it done, but the fact that he came down and he wanted to see this thing through for some reason, I guess because he put it together. So he came
down and it was special. Man. Something that I see Pat now, he always hit me with that fifteen strong card like, it's just something that we just bonded together and in the winter with those guys, I was close obviously with GP was my man. We had just came from playing in Boston together and then we both signed with the Heat, so that was that was JA will Yeah, Ji burn every trip, y'all know how you gonna do he putting the wet towel at the door, and don't
call him. Don't call him. He ain't going out on the road. The only thing you're gonna do. He may go to dinner with you, depending you know he wanted to do. He want to get to the room with that towel.
Did you ever go out eat with him and see his face? Some people would ask him for like an autograph he's eating na I forgot to ask him, bro, that's the one thing he hates more than in the.
Month woman to touch your hand when I'm using my hands to eat was not going.
But you know what else is special about that team that y'all don't really probably don't don't talk about. That was the coming out of d Wade. He was good. He was really good, don't get wrong, But that year he was special, bro, And people don't talk about his finals enough game MVP, and people don't talk about that enough. Man d Wade carried us Man. He was incredible. He was so athletic and passing lanes. He can score and he henn shoot the three. He give you thirty all tools.
He wasn't even looking at the three part last all twols reject the screen. So you know what I'm saying. So that's what that was, what made that they actually be a part of that And to see that like transparent right right in front of my eyes and see how good he that he becomes. So that was that was specially he carried us Man, especially in the finals.
How did you hand to the heat culture, you know with the body testing, you know all that shit, dealing with a pard stressful practices.
Bro Man lot Man, that was that was tough for me. Like, so I took a while to get in shape. You know, you think you're in shape. You know, you think you're doing what you gotta do something. It's not past shape. So he called me in so he said, look, so I weighed in like two sixty like twelve percent body fat. I'm sorry. He's like, look I need you at two forty five between two forty five, two fifty, and I
need you a eight percent body fat. You got thirty days, you got training can When I came in, he's like, you got training camp and man, I'm doing two days. You went there with the strength coach. You're just trying to get there. I hired a cook, I got a chef. I was like, yo, we got to tighten up. And every Monday you get way in. It's no every Monday they pinching you. They painting you every Monday. And if you know, obviously one thing about Patty was ready professional.
So the fines were laid out. I think at that time it was like two thousand if you don't make body fat, so ain't no argument, ain't no embarrassing you. It's just two thousands gonna be out your check if you don't. If you ain't, if you don't make your weight, he ain't gonna broadcast it. He gonna say what he gotta say to you privately. And that's how it was. Man. I remember we had one trip me y'all know how skinny Posy was. Posey didn't make his body fat. Come on, man,
Posey shack. It was me Posy and Shock. We ain't make our number, not like dramatically off of like zero point five off. It wasn't the number that he wanted to say. So we got a six game roll Chip Man. Y'all know, Pats told us stay back. He was like, what stay back? And y'all got two days he left. The strength coach was we had to tour days, so we would go in the morning and lift weights and run and then come back at night and shoot. So
you shocking post, me shocking post. I couldn't have that. Huh, yeah, you ain't get to go home. So training camp was different for us. So you know, most you know, you get to go home and come back later. So Pat was like, uh, they had to blow out to blow out beds, you know, so you get matches and so get you one, just pick you one up. Ain't no go home. You had from eight to six all day and know, eat lunch, take you a little nap, stay right there. That's training camp. I ain't no go home
and get no rest. Come back real tour days. Get your a little blanket, take you a little nap right there on the floor.
Fuck your pillow.
But I understood, though, y'all gotta think about Miami though, I fought it for a long time, and then I realized why he had the coach, Why at least try to make that culture that way. There's a lot of temptations. We know that South Beach bro Ye, well, I ate that South Beach up man, I love the Beach, bro We.
Wasn't there twenty four hours just and we got ever enjoyed everything South Beach had to offer and played the heat and one by.
We came to shoot around in the same clothes we flew in with from the Orlando game the night before and put our hands in the middle and Nelly smelled us.
He said, your ass man, get back on the bus and we better win this game tonight.
We wasted, bro Man. Listen, I used to go back to back. I used to go out, y'all rememberim. So when I got down there, they had just started lift h popping popping on son is cracky. This when like pop popping, Little Wayne and all them performing for free, like it's popping.
Yeah, you didn't took me out a couple of times.
I know, listen, it's four. I'm getting on ninety five, Like, nah, let me just stop. I stop at the ringer. You know we can get in twenty four hours with the fingerprint, I'll go on that sting. Let me get this out of me now. Let me get this out of me now, because I know in the morning, I do not want to hear his mouth and I do not want to be the only one. But I have my road done. They have polls, you d they'll go out with me, but they ain't you. I'm like, man, I smell like
a brewery. I'm like, I got to go ahead and get this out me. Pat, that this automatic fine right here, So I'm stopping. Let me go ahead, get in this thing right now. The I'm gonna go home and come on back to practice. That's how I used to roll too. Yeah, you feelok good, Like I gotta come this thing like that. Yeah, but that's that's what. So that's why I had a lot of respect for Pat. How he did it down there,
what if he culture and how they do it. You gotta work hard and you gotta web dudes out because that that beast could come calling you. Paul and d Wade.
You play with both of them when they have the conversation of who's the best, and Paul say he's the best. When somebody come to you because you know your opinion Reap is really soilid because you played with both of them.
What would you say? And I've had this conversation before when people asking me when that I seen some public stuff go, I get disappointed when I hear the respect, the respect that's not there for and I hate that. And I know you know, and but basketball playing competitive got game. It ain't many tougher than Paul bro And I think that, and you hear his argument, and I think it comes from you know, people, our favorites. Dwayne's a fan favorite in the world. People easy question. He's
from Chicago. I love him to death. And the funny story, I'm even add to that. So I went to Dwayne Wade had a celebration for going to Hall of Fame. So I want to pay my respects in Chicago. And guess what conversations you want to have? This one? This one? Oh no joke, like this is we celebrating this Hall of Fame? Like, Bro, why you ain't defend me? May you know we're from Chicago. I'm like, he tough, I told THEE I say he tough. I said, man, Paul toughs that come. I ain't say, I Paul ain't back
down from nobody. I saw Paul go against everybody. He don't back down, Like I said, I see him putt numbers up against everybody. So I think the way Paul did it probably should have probably gave a little bit more respect to d Wade and just flat out said he better him. But that's how confident Paul is to come to basketball.
And I think because he had some crazy takes every once in a while, people don't know.
How good he really is. But you can go, you can go categories category with those guys. It's probably neck and neck and you can probably you know the ways, more athletic than him. But Paul's a better score than me,
damn you. I mean, you know what I mean. So it's like little things I think defensively, you know wang I mean the Wade was a guy that got in the passing lanes, you know what I mean, those type of things, So people judge you off that both of you guys are defensive guy, but like sitting down, locking down somebody, I mean, pe gonna sit down and try to guard you. So you know, it's just different and people, you know us obviously in the game and play against
those guys. Understanding I think people would look on the outside and just look at highlights. We see this grind every day, both grades. Yeah, Pete tough, tough they come. That's no Jack, that's tough, stay come come basketball. He scared. He buy nine.
He really was the blueprint and guards were doing and Steve Smith and were doing it. But he was really the blueprint for guards posting up in our era. Oh yeah, definitely the blue print. The inside pivot, all that, that was all p We all saw Paul doing it.
Something else Paul does.
It's hot now that side step three Ally was doing that side step he started that, ye, and people that's the thing.
And people don't understand that he had sneaky hops to hes gonna meet you. He gonna meet you at the rim and strong too. So that's the main difference. I just think when they was arguing, there's two different players. And I still where people's coming from. I understand where the wade coming from. But they two different players in the way they scored, the way gonna get ten transition, you know what I mean? He not more of a half court score. You know, he started to score better
shooting the basketball towards the end of his career. But everything with the Wade is you know, getting out in the lanes, catching you one on one. Freak athlete, Yeah, super freak athlete number sixty three.
But Pete didn't have no holes in the offensive game.
No none, and he shoot eighty from the line. So he's gonna make.
You yeah yeah, and talk about ship to you the whole entire time. When you sit back and look at the at your career and the accolades and you know, the longevity, what what?
What pops out the most.
I'm upset in myself. I didn't finish the right way talking about that got traded, the Memphis lost confidence and the fact of you know, just came from Miami playing on playoffs team, playing meaningful games Memphis and the rebuild I was with that, Michael Connley, O j Mayo, Rudy Gay, they were they were really young. They were rebuilding, and like they traded for me. They was like, look, we're
gonna play the young guys. I'm like, what so? And then people didn't really notice that I was like sitting on the bitch in the beginning, Like I didn't even get an opportunity. It was just like we're playing these young guys, we developing. Marcasol was on that team too, so they was they was developing those guys. I just wasn't in their mixing what they were trying to do.
So I just took a buy y'all got impatient. Should have been more patient, probably been a veteran leader just kind of probably you know, worked out and and kind of you know, led to young guys and practice and make sure that the right thing. Things Probably could have ended up a little better for me. But no, you know how we were competitive.
Man.
We see these guys play in front of us. We want to play. I'm thinking about trying to see if I can steal me two more years, you know what I mean, give me a couple more years. So I got impatient, man. And Chris Wallace was the GM at the time, and a lot of people know that Chris Wallace was the GM with the Celtics, so I had a relationship with him and I just went to him and was like, Yo, can you can I get a buyout situation? Can we trade? He was like, well, you
got an inspired contract. I wanted to use it for a trade. I was like, no, this back me out. I don't want you to send me nowhere else then I can't go, and he let me, but he bought me out. But I ain't gonna lie that Black Marker was dead. That phone did not ring, bro Like, I
was like, wow, I couldn't believe it. And then Chris Bosh got hurt, and then Toronto called me, and I went up there for two days and worked out for them and was ready to think was about to sign me, and Chris Bosh ended up coming back faster than what they thought and it was over after that, bro Like, it was like it was crazy. The phone stopped ringing, and it was like, man, it's trying to really figure out something else to do, you know what I mean.
It wasn't nothing like. It's one of those situations where you looking to figure out. I'm like, I ain't really went in the mood to go overseas and but your thirty two three two yeah, So I'm like, man, I feeling like I got a couple more in me. And I went home and then let me tell you a funny story. So I went to the crib and kind of feeling down on myself, I called Coach Patino and I was like coaching, you know, man, I need to come down, work out, try to stand some shape. I
had let myself go a little bit. So I went down there with coach Patino, went to Louisville, got me an apartment and lost thirty pounds. I worked and he worked me out personally. Yeah, one of the good guys. He would work me out in the morning personally, and then I would go back with the assistant coaches at night. Got down thirty pounds, got myself back in shape, got myself back together again, and went to Charlotte and went
to that training camp. Larry Brown was the coach at the time, and it was me and Darius Miles, and they ended up sticking with Daris Moles for the last spot to bring a training camp. I don't know if Darius ended up playing that whole year or not, but he was a little younger. Dari's a little younger than me, and they belong with him. And that was the last
commitment that I had really made to the game. Talking about that, so yeah, so it was that was my last commitment to try to really come back to playing the game. I was like, nah, it's over with. I went to the D League and went down there and I went to the D League really because of Randy Liveston. He was the head coach that was for the Idaho Stampede and he called me. He had some articles and stuff that I still wanted to play, Like you still want to play? I'm like yeah, man. He was like, look,
compass some work in maybe go to showcase. They were on eight when I went down there, so they on eight. I'm in like fifty percent shape. I'm trying to get in shape. These boys they practiced on concrete. They facilities are terrible, like it's like, you know what I mean. But it was cool. Randy my man, So it was cool. He made it easy for me. So I went down there and tried to get there. But bro, after about like a month, I didn't call my groove im. Now
I'm starting to put a little work here. Now I'm putting some numbers up. I'm starting to feel good again. So I went down there and played with him. But it was good. It was mumbling. It humbled me real bad. Just it humbled me really good because I saw how those guys had to try to grind and get to the league. You know what I mean. We fly coach you know how you go for you fly. I'm like, yo, I can't fly, coach. I'm paying for my own ticket to go first class. We stand at holiday ends like
you just getting humbled. You know you risk carton holiday inn, you know what I mean. The CBA. So it was just like a process, like it was just like the whole thing. And I just one day I was a gonna lie.
Man.
I was sitting in the locker room in Idaho and I told I just made an announcement to the team. I just thanked them guys for like embracing me and let me be with them. And I was like, man, I'm retiring, man, so this my last game, and that's how fun. Let's try to win. I just made an announcement and I just let it go. Man. I couldn't do it no more. It was it was mentally draining me.
You know what I'm saying. I love the game too much, and I you know, when you can't compete, like you can't start to feel like damn a bum now, Like you know what I mean, You feel like you can't compete against the guys, and you watched it. I'm like, nah, I'm like I'm gonna leave this alone. Try it's time to do something. So I tried it for two years. I went the first year and played that whole full season with them, and then the second year I started
off and I ain't had a molder no more. I thought I did, and then I did, and I was like, now I'm gonna go. I appreciate it Randy for giving me a chance. And look if I look it out for me, just really as my boy like come on, you know what I'm saying, and teach me, and I just like, it's time to do something else.
What's that transition like for someone who had so much success, tried to get back, doesn't get back, it's over. Like what was next in your mind?
What did you do next?
Well? I knew I wanted to be in sports in some capacity, so I was like, you know, what, could I figure out where I could be in sports? And Jack know, we start. We started one twenty Sports gave me an opportunity to kind of be in front of the camera. It was digital, it was online, but it was a chance for me to you know, talk the game. And I started right there and then I got my chance a lot of I worked for the SEC Network
for three years. So that really taught me the game and got a chance to cover my college team and really dig into basketball and learned that aspect of one being an analyst and and and taking this serious and doing that because you got to put your work in, you know, because obviously we removed from the college game, so you got to learn the players again, learn that style, learn how they play. So I went through that process
and and just kind of really took it from there. Man, like it's like I'm gonna figure out what I'm what I'm gonna do in this in this sports world. And then every all the other opportunities became working on Fox, we worked the Fox together, NBA TV. You know what I mean. I'm I did everything so now in the place, now that phone rings more, Hey Twin, you know, want you come in for a week. I don't got to work as hard now, you know what I mean, because
I put the work in for it. So you know, once now football is over with season, I'll get my runs. You'll see me. You know. Throughout Fox have called me, you know Nick right, you know Nick, them guys, my boys, they they'll call me and say, man, come in for a week, Come on the show, so I still get the voice in my opinion, you know, Matt, I called you. I want to be able to be in this space
you guys in man like and be able. I don't know, but I want to have this type of flatform, to be able to share my stories, share those type of things heard, you know what I mean. So that's that's why I'm met with it. I still love the game right now currently. I mean, I do all the financial literacy myself, Eddie Curry, Eddie NA part of the team with the Players Association, so I get to visit all
the teams and be around the guys. Mama my run right now where I'm visiting all the teams, and you know, just try to help the guys with the mistakes that we made, you know what I mean. They got any questions, share my stories with them, you know, and and hopefully they don't make the same mistakes. And they dealing with way different numbers that we're dealing with, so they can make They can make some mistakes and recover a lot easier too, you know what I mean, So they could
take more chances. But I try to be like that the voice of reason for them, and that gives me a lot of pleasures to be able to help guys. When those guys come up with questions and you able to help them and help change their lives. That speaks vibes. You guys know that we all fraternity, you know what I mean. We have so much love for each other. So it's the same. So I love that aspect of doing things. So I'm still a part of the game. And that's That's the one thing I never wanted to do.
I never wanted to be not a part of the game in some capacity.
This is what we know. This is what we love, all right, quick hitters. First thing to come to mind. Let us know, no for someone who can put the ball in the basket. Top five scores in your opinion, not players, just scores.
Scores, Uh, Michael Alan Iverson, Kobe Bryant k d mm hmm.
That fifth one just probably tack Oh good call, Good Call. T was a bucket one album? Will repeat? What would be? What would it be?
Reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt, my Big J guy, Man, I'm a huge jay Z fan, Big J Guy, h reasonable doubt. That camp came out twice too, man, It's a classic.
Baby right, most underrated player and yet that in the time you played, it's nice to just didn't get the recognition.
Man, that's a tough question. Oh, most underrated player in my era, our era. I'm gonna be honest, man, I think Stephani Marlberry, Steph is Steph is very hot. Stephan Steph is very high on my list. So I get upset sometimes when I hear we talk about top point guards to ever play the game and he not mentioned
that that that really bothers me. And I had a great fortunate obviously to watch him play in high school, obviously only play one year in college, but pro level Steph, to me, that's the one guy that don't get enough recognition. And I don't you know, obviously, like me, where you career in sometime it doesn't it doesn't work out that way. But I don't know how he's not done get in
the Hall of Fame. Think about basketball Hall of Fame, So you got to think about what he's done for the game, how much not to rioting, he got, lived up to it. How you don't get into the Hall of Fame is crazy to me. I still hope you get what's your guilty pleasure? I wish I played football wide receiver.
Okay, you have hands.
Yeah, of course you know that I'm talking.
I mean just because you got him, don't mean you got him.
Man, I was a point I point foward.
Yeah, I got hands. Yeah.
I'm a big football I'm a big football guy. I do all the facts like I be my boy. I do all the fantasy football man like I'm like, I'm a barrass fan. Unfortunately I'm riding away. I'm struggling. I'm struggling. One thing you wish you were better at, Oh wow, damn, that's a lot of things. Man. Let me think of one thing that was world know that I was better at the door? Probably me communicating? Okay, community communication, that's like I would think communication. I think you know least
some things I'm told when you really had the opportunity. Sometimes, y'all, notice we spare a lot of people. Sometimes the situations. It ain't always got to be some negative, but we spare a lot of situations. I even think about family dynamics, you know what I mean, brothers and sisters, my kids just you know some things that you should have told them and you didn't tell them, and shit happens, and you'd be like, it's already on my mind, you know
what I mean? So I think I would think that communication.
If you could see one guess on this show, who would it be? But you have to help us get your answer on the show.
Somebody in their phone book, and.
I mean one guest. Let me see who I like on that'd be an athlete. No, they don't have to be athlete. Okay, I'm thinking anybody, anybody. It could be anybody.
Just remember, you got to help us get him on the show.
Somebody cool so s somebody you cool it?
Man, I'm gonna tell you, I don't know if I can. I can make some calls to help get it done, but y'all gotta y'all got to get the president now, expert you get bombed on him, man, make the call. Come on boat.
You know you mentioned you work.
With Eddie Curry. That's got a great story, unbelievable story and it needs to be told. I talked to him all the time. Yeah, yeah, I got his number. Great and he'll he'll be great. Man. He's uh, he's actually now and you brought him up. He's doing a terrific job of helping the young guys because you know he's a part of the financial literacy team now. So a lot of people don't understand he's one of the first guys that come out of high school. Yeah, and you
know what I mean, big contracts, get him a big contract. Obviously, he's got a personal side to him with his daughter, that situation that happened with his kids.
So he's a great story and his wife started a relationship podcast to yeah that did.
Yeah, so he's a he's a better headspace right now. So I'm definitely gonna reach out to him and be able to share some of his stories and wisdom and knowledge. He's great for the young guys, so I'll be I'll be blowing off my feet when he talks to those young guys, bro, because he's went through it. He came out of high schoolboy po don't understand that he was the number one I think it was number one pick. Yeah, so you know he went through a lot man.
Yeah, well one man, we appreciate your time.
Grad you had an opportunity to share your side of what you wanted to share, and uh, you know, definitely gonna continue the business talk to would love to, you know.
Definitely see what we can do. But man, y'all. Let me in the space a little bit.
Man.
I can't have it all, man, y'all, I gotta share. Man. It's four hundred and fifty NBA players, everybody play games, everybody. Let me this space a little bit back. Let me sit in that seat of interview, y'all. Yes, sir, Yes, sir.
We got just a little bit on the Draft Kings Network and all the smoke productions you to.
We'll see y'all next week, sir.
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