M mm hmmm, mm hmmm.
Welcome back.
All the smoke currently under new management. God damn right. We work for ourselves now.
My collar off, I done popped it last couple of days off. Yeah, I'm gonna keep this one on it.
I like that you got on l V. Yes, sir, you know it. Man, we got a man one of the greatest to ever do it today. But I'm gonna go ahead and let you introduced since you're a boxing guy.
Oh man, Well, it's somebody who is definitely a legend. We've had boxes like Roy Jones, Tank Spence, Al Spence, Charloe Ron gonna say everybody speak highly of them, look up to him and admire him.
Somebody that they try to pattern their careers after.
Five time world champion, Hall of Famer s og the legend Andre Watt, Sir, Welcome to the show, bro.
Happy to be on with y'all.
Man, honor to have yes, sir, congratulations. Book inspired memoir Killing the Image about your incredible boxing journey and life outside of the ring. Can you speak to why you felt it was time to write this and share your story with the world.
Yeah.
Man, it's a time and the place for everything and you don't always know, you know, when that exact time is. But I always knew I was gonna tell my story one day, you know, even when I was young in the game nineteen two, I knew, like, man, I don't want to give everything to the media, and I don't want to try to, you know, promote my fights through my family trauma, our struggles, and it's you know, it's a give and take with that, and it's pros and cons.
Some people may say, well, you know, if you'd did more, you would have been more relatable. It's like maybe, but that stuff was like very dear to me and very sacred to me.
Man.
Not my mother wasn't ready to talk about that stuff. My father had passed, and I for sure wasn't ready to talk about it. So as I started progressing throughout my career, you know, I started getting you know, some movement like Will was like, man, let me try to pitch this book. And I thought I was ready to write it six seven years ago. But y'all know, being in media and taking on these projects, it's a process.
So it popped off. When it popped off, the doc jumped off first on Showtime, and I think it was the perfect time and because with the doc we touched on it, but with the book we go a lot deep.
Do you have a favorite or most meaningful chapter or story that you could share that's in the book.
I really love talking about my childhood and the good and the bad. You know, the boxing part. You know, it's a chapter in a book called A Champion Is Born, and that's a story about me and my father watching George for Mean and Michael Moore. You know, Michael Moore was was beating up on George for most of the fight, and we had at that time, you know, it's an early nineties, so we got the big screen TV that's
on the floor and were watching the fight. And you know, my dad was a big George Foreman fan, and I just see George Foreman. He figured it out. He pulled through four punches one two, stepped back through another one two, and Michael Moore is on the canvas in Vegas, laid out and we went crazy. And from that moment forward, I started dreaming about and what would it be like to be in that arena, What would it be like
to have those commentators talking about me? So that's that's on you know, just the origin of my love for the sport. That's very dear to me. But if you look at like the back of that book, it says what if I die? You know, that was a moment where I was in the streets, heavy, using drugs, numbing with alcohol. I didn't really care about boxing no more. I was through with it, giving.
My whole life.
Man, this was like eighteen years old, eighteen nineteen years old. It's about eighteen years old and almost had an overdose. We popp an, ecstasy, all kind of stuff at that time. And that's meaningful to me because it could have ended right there. But that was my new birth. That was my rebirth right there. And so when people see me today and they hear me talking about my faith or they see me move the way that I moved, it all started from that moment.
That's deep the city San Francisco, California. Tell the people that don't know that clump the bay altogether. What's the difference between the city and the town which is Oakland.
It's just different, slightly different culture, same culture, but different. So cats and Frisco made dress a little different, maybe talk a little different, but it's really it's really all the same. You know, at the end of the day, it's a thirty minute drive from San Francisco to Oakland, So slightly different flavor, slightly different way they moved, but it's really a lot of the same.
Talk to us about your upbringing, young Dre before you got to the point where you wanted to box, What was your childhood like growing up in the city.
Man, I really had normal childhood in some respects. And then what made me different than most of my peers though, is that, you know, I had two parents that were drug ad My mother was a full blown addict. You know, she was in San Francisco. I was in East Bay, and all I knew was that my mom was struggling with crack cocaine. That's all I knew, and I just knew she wasn't there at that time, and that affected me.
And I didn't realize how much it affected me until I got older and started not relating to women, will having trust issues, not knowing how to put myself out there, being guarded, and from my father, he was a functional addict. He owned his own business. He would work all day and when he came home he would have that monkey on his back and his Drugger choice at that time was Heroin. So everything was normal except that.
When you get older now and you kind of look back, you know, because I've gone through therapy in my life to unpack my childhood. What was kind of your advice or what you did to kind of unpack that childhood trauma or those childhood issues you struggled with. Did you ever seek counseling or anything like that? Was that beneficial for you?
Very beneficial because you know, I have a tendency to to not talk and like a lot of men, but for me, you know, like I would internalize a lot of a lot of trauma in pain and I just say that I'm good and I'm really not. And it really took me, you know, really my faith was the intersection that I needed. And a lot of times people hear about faith and they look at it like a crutch or you know, they look at it like, you know,
what about these people over here being hypocrites? And it's like, well, I can't speak for them, but what I do know is is if I did not have a personal relationship with God, if he didn't come and touch my life, I wouldn't be standing here right now, and not only just a personal relationship, but I found a church and my passion Napoleon Kaufman form a raider all American that
you do. Connecting with that man and then him helping me understand the things he overcame his childhood trauma and how he got delivered and set free and he was whole. I said, man, I want that. And then I started looking at the community of people within the church, like, man, that's a good brother right there. Man, that's another good brother right there. So it's really me opening myself up to God and me opening myself up to community is
really what helped me heal and continue to grow. And I'm still I'm still going through process.
Do you feel like opening up and sharing some of the most vulnerable moments in your life, whether it be your book or your doc, has also kind of been therapeutic for you?
Yes, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, cause I had to overcome a lot of shame doing you know, my my my doc and my book. And that's really what the title of this book is all about, you know, talking to my pastor and I'm like, man, these Joxas don't understand. Man, I didn't been through this. I didnet did way more than what they did. He said, Dre, you gotta kill the image. And at first I thought he was saying that, you know, it was something pretentious of fate that I
was present. He said, no, who you are is real. It's just not who you've always been. And I had to dig deep, and I had to open up those old wounds, and I had to come face to face with young Dre. Even though I had overcome a lot and I had healed a lot, it was still some things that I was still carrying shame about, because you know, it is you look at your younger self, like, dude, you was tripping, and I'm so far removed from that individual.
It's hard to believe writing this book, going through this doc that I did some of those things, or moved the way that I move, or had some of those mindsets. So but it was necessary and doing that it may kill some of the images that people have in me. It may make you be a stronger believer in what in what you know I say I believe in and who I am. But it was a necessary thing that
I had to do. And the testimonies that I've been getting from the doc in the book had been just crazy from all over the world, just people saying, Man, I can relate. My mother was on drugs too. Man, I didn't know you went through that.
Man.
It makes me even more more of a supporter. So, man, it's been a blessing.
I think that's why it's even more important to have a relationship with God, because, like you say, you talk to the therapist who they go to with their problems, who they talk to about their problems. Right, So it's important that you have a relationship with somebody that's the only person that's not gonna judge you, you know what I'm saying, because you can go to a therapist, you can give them all you they going to somebody with their problems.
Who you going to?
Yeah, right, So that's the only person that you should go to. And I tell people all the time, I know I'm not perfect, but I live my life every day to show God I deserve everything he blessed me with. So I'm fine with that, you know what I'm saying. And that's that's how I keep myself in a good space.
Now that's real, and I feel so strong about what I believe because I know me, I'm not the type of person that can read a dead book that has no power and just follow a bunch of laws and precepts and ideas. Like at some point, that's not gonna do it for me, Like if it's just knowledge. But something hit me that that I never felt before, and I can't deny it. I don't know everything about the word. I don't know everything about I'm a minister of my church.
I'm a youth pastor. I'm still growing. I don't know everything. But what I do know, I can never deny the power that hit me and how it changed my life and how it kept me these last twenty years, because y'all know how it is. It's pressure and daily it's daily pressure. Every city you go in, it's somebody pulling on you. It's a it's a pit, holes, it's a it's a pothole, it's something that, it's something, it's a game, somebody trying to run and man, I say, God, keep me.
Man.
Throughout a twenty year career. Did I do everything right? Absolutely not? But did I know that, Man, I'm being kept by a power that's stronger than myself. Absolutely.
Picking up in boxing in the nineties it was looked at as a great Virgil Hunter talk about virgin he.
Was a guy saying because you know, he was already playing a duo fither role when I met him. You know, I met him at the gym. I had another trainer at that time, and that trainer, you know, he was more like, you know, take two punches to give one. And my father, who loved Muhammad Ali, he was like, I don't want my son to get hit. You know what you mean, it's boxing, He's gonna get He said, no, I need to teach him how to hit and not
get hit. What just so happens that Vergil sitting there that day at the gym, listened to the conversation and he said, Man, you want your son to learn how to hit and not get He said, come talk to me. He said that that's my special that's what I do. And that sparked my dad's interest right there.
So you didn't know him then at all.
I didn't know him at all. I had, you know, it's what you call a house train, like a guy that you go to if you sign up at this gym. He was the house training. Verse just happened to be there working out, and so I'm hitting the bag and I'm looking over at Verge and he's nine in his head.
Like what age were you with this sign? I was nine, okay, he.
Giving me a nod of approval. I'm looking at him looking at me, and then him and my dad, like I said, started started dialoguing, and he made boxing fun for me. My dad was too. My dad was all or nothing. Man. I told you to throw the jam, get your hands up, and me, as a kid at that time, I just shut down. Verse made it fun like, look at this baby, go through it like this, Okay, get your hand up. It was like a song and a dance. So I knew right away I wanted to
train with him. But I'm grateful for that man because when my father passed when I was eighteen in two thousand and.
Two, and he stepped right in and stepped up.
And Verge grew up in West Oakland. He knew how to move into town. He knew the ins and outs. He was twenty years as a probation officer, and he knew how to talk to me at that time, and he would get on me. He would say to me, hey, bro, God got his hand on you. I don't know what you're doing out there. But it ain't gonna work for you, and I would get mad. I would fighting, Man, why are you speaking on me?
Man?
I'm just why you speaking that on me?
Man?
I'm trying to do my thing. And but if I didn't have that man saying stuff like that to me and even being having a prophetic voice in my like telling me stuff that's gonna happen before it happened, I would have crashed out. I would have crashed out because I needed a strong mail figure.
What would you say besides him being the you know, being there at the time when you were starting to seeing something in you, what would you what would you say?
That major a great pair.
I just liked how how he thought. I liked how he coached, you know, like, I'm not a dude that needs to be I don't need Roy Roe. Yeah, like I'm already like I'm very much in my head and I'm very competitive and I don't like to lose. So I don't need that drive and I don't mind working hard. I need you to remind me of who I am at certain moments. Remind me while we here and you know, talk that talk to me, baby, you know.
Why we're here.
He don't know what he getting into, but we finish showing him. That's the kind of stuff that Vergil do. He just knew how to push them certain buttons, and I took it and ran with it.
You've been in a Hall of fame, and just to be a good question for you, how important is to have a good trainer?
Man, I honestly think you got to have more than that. To survive at the highest level, you gotta have Sometimes that trainer is a counselor sometimes that trainer is a father figure. Sometimes he's a brother. Because it's so many emotions you're going through when you're not in the ring,
stuff you're dealing with in life. Then when you get a fight coming up and you in training care it's a lot, man, and you need somebody to know you beyond just a fighter like I couldn't imagine having just a higher hand, just somebody that I only see you at the gym. I needed a father figure. And you know, vergis to tease me, you know, when I was even a profiler, said, man, you a head case because I never felt like I was doing enough. I always felt
like somebody's out working me. He tells me to take it down. I can't take it down, he said, Man, dude, you just sparred twelve rounds a day. We got three weeks before the fighter is coming.
You good?
I'm not good?
Man?
You a head case?
May you trip it?
I needed that. I needed him to talk to me that way and be that father, figured that brother and that counselor at times.
Because we can be our worst enemy at times.
Yeah, I needed that. I needed that because, you know, like a lot of the things that made me a champion, if it's not under control, it cannot be good, you know, because it's an unusual type of drive. And New York realized who I hadn't lost since I Man, I've been on a crazy win streak. I haven't lost since I've been like fourteen years old, all throughout Nationals, Olympics. That's
a lot of pressure. And in hindsight, that probably affected me in my pro career a little bit because I just I didn't want to lose so bad that I probably didn't fight as loose as I could have faught sometimes and flow like I could have flowed because I'm trying to be so perfect and make sure I meet the mark and do everything I was supposed to do. But Verge is always there to talk to me. How to talk to that kid in me, even in my twenties and thirties. Baby, you know, that's how you talk
to me as a kid. So I know when I hear that, that's verse talking to me as a young man, and I would always respond man. So it was much more than just a trainer.
I see a lot of the coaches, coaches and trainings these days training their sons. Yeah, what do you think of the state of boxing with the trainings and coaches.
Now, I'm not one that says it can't work, It's just not It's not easy.
It got to be rare like Boots and Bozie something like that.
Yeah, and I think I think. I think Bill is doing a good job with Devin. It's tough because you know a lot of times fathers many they as a father, you gotta you gotta know that you work for your son because he's paying you. But I'm still your father. Yeah, and you got to know when to be dad, and you gotta know when to be training. And you also can't live through your son. That's your baby. I don't care how big you get, how how old he is, that's your son. And when you when y'all get in
their ring, you're gonna walk down them still apps. And that boy you raised, he gonna be in that ring with that a man by himself. So you gotta always remember that. For the sons, they got to know when they let dad be dad and say, man, he's telling me the right thing. But when they say no, that I got this. So it's a lot of dynamics, man. That that's that's hard for trainers and uh, for sons and fathers to tow them lines. It's hard, but it could be done. It's just rare.
Who did you idolize in boxing? Coming up? Man?
My big three was you know, Roy, Hollins, be Hop, and Floyd And my first one was was Roy. Country boy came up in Pensacola, Florida. Roy had the duct tail in the back to get the little I must have forgotten man.
He was.
He was a country boy with swag though it was something different about him and I like the way he talked, I liked his accent, I liked his fighting style and he did everything wrong but it worked out for him. And you know with be Hop, identify with be Hop because I never felt like I was the most talented and be Hop wasn't the most talented, but he was super,
super disciplined. I would talk to him on the phone and he have the type of dude that if you bring it, if you bring a soda and did you that's boison, he'll get at He'll get at you for bringing a soda in the gym, and you know that red meat like he was that way, you know what I'm saying. Spent a lot of time in the independ and I related to him as far as his discipline, and that's why he beat a lot of guys he
shouldn't beat. And with Floyd, his work ethic, Floyd, we know, you know Floyd got you know, Floyd got the money he got, he got the big whips, he got the big houses, but he worked like he was broke still to this day, even more exhibitions. I took something from each one of them dudes, and I felt like I was a hybrid of all three.
How would you describe your style of fighting?
Yeah, I don't have one. And whatever I need to be that day to win tonight, I may need to make it ugly. We hey, I may need to let you feel my physical strength. Let you know I'm not gonna let you bully me physically, like when I'm fall sock kre Beacon. It may be a night when I fight Michael Kessel for my first title fight. I'm an outbox you bro. You got a European style, you straight up and down, no special effects, and I'm gonna let
you feel that. Then you may have a situation where Alan Green, where I gotta go in there and make it inside game. You've seen a different side. So it's like Bruce Lee said, I was formless. I'm what I need to be because if I just have a certain style at some point I get exploited because they watching film on me like I'm watching film on them, and I can ill afford to have a bad night. So I got to figure it out. So I didn't really have no style.
We spoke to this before we got on camera about athletes mentality, particular NBA players and sitting out and resting or having a feeling like you're having an off night coming into a game and being able to, you know, turn that around and turn it into a solid game or give maximum effort the mental side of your game, because it's just you and your teammates can't help you. No one else can help you. How do you have you? Have you ever gone into a fight like damn? I
don't feel like I have it. Stipend obviously been able to pull it out.
I had a handful of those.
I had you one with a messed up hand, with a broken hand right.
Me and Carl Froch. Physically, I felt good. I just had you know, I hurt my hand and I knew it was bad, and that was one night.
But you knew that before getting in the ring and still winning there.
Yeah, yeah, I don't have no guaranteed contract. Yeah yeah, I eat what I killed. I gotta go in there. If I don't work, I don't eat. And we already the week of the fight too, so it's like, what you're gonna do? We already here on the East Coast were a couple of days out, so I had to take that when I fought Coble, same thing Tod my ACM in two thousand and eight, and just the training, the running, the sparring, all the stuff that I did, it slowly start getting worse. That was the worst training
camp I ever had. The whole camp. I'm stopping and going stopping and going shut out, shut out. Should I pull out of the fight? I was telling me, Man, God got you. There's gonna be some adversity, but you're gonna be all right. I got my lawyer and my brother Josh Duben said, Bro, you can't go into the fight like this. Jay my manager, he like, Jay, you know, Jay like, well, let's just wait and see, let's hold on to see. Jay thinking the business side, because you know,
we had just got in business with Rock Nation. It's the first big fight. We don't want to pull out and send that kind of message. So it was a very, very very difficult situation. I'm finding the most dangerous man probably in the game at that time. I'm at my rented house two hours before we getting ready to go to the arena, and I'm looking at this doctor Drane Flewid on my knee, and I'm in disbelief, like, man, you like I couldn't believe. It's like it's almost like
a dream, Like, man, this is really happening. Like I'm really gonna fight this dude with one one good leg. But I'm not gonna say I'm built different and nothing like that. Man. I just I just got a certain mindset, man. I just like, I'm gonna bring it and you might get me, but it's not gonna be easy. That's just my mindset. I'm not always gonna look great, I'm not
always gonna feel great. But if you beat me, you're gonna be a good man, because I'm coming ready, even if I don't feel one hundred percent.
What's your take on the way young boxes these days taking criticism because, like, especially with social media being so and everybody having opinion, like y'all was criticized, Mike Tyson was criticized more than anybody, But.
Y'all they dealt with a different way and not like it's perfect example.
Yeah, it's people that be at the fights that y'all see every day. The commentators who y'all have no relationship with that's say worse things. But you're gonna see somebody who have to say the same thing they say, but you have a relationship with them and you take it a different way. Why why is it not taking the same way from the same you know, from when it's been said about the same people, the same thing been say about different people.
I think for the youngsters, man, I think they expect that from the boxing media. But people outside the boxing media, they got respect for they and they like not you too, right, not you like you can call me with that, like while you get online. I think that's a lot of the mindset. Yeah, it's rough, bro, it's rough out here in the social media streets, man, because you gotta really be strong. You gotta really be strong because you got you got random people, and you got people.
You know.
It's harder now, it's harder, bro, you know what I'm saying.
We we was get criticized really just basically off our game to what we're playing now.
I mean, you got to look for it too. You gotta read the newspaper. You got it, you know what I'm saying. Like, you pick your phone us you ever a bad game or a bad fight. You see all the mentions one hundred fifty fifty men, you already know what time it is. You click that mention its own just that quick. It's hard, right, you have to pick up the paper.
You know what I'm saying.
It's different, So it's not easy for the youngsters, man, But it's also it's also a necessary evil though, And I say that because you can't always like you need some people that's that element is good for you.
Only talk about you because it's great though.
Yeah, it's good for you. Keep you humble, right, any part of it, and it keeps you. It keeps you grinding. Like as a fight, it's not normal to getting a ring with another man with eight downs and ten do houns gloves on and fight in front of the whole world like it's normal because you grew up doing it, But it's really not normal. You got to keep having reasons why you're doing this. So at first, I don't want to be a champion when you got that. Now
I don't want to make money. Well you got a few ms now now with your So I'm not saying you give a bunch of people credit, right because I evolved into that. At first it's like I'm gonna prove y'all wrong. Then I evolved into the people that's been rocking with me. I'm gonna prove y'all right, y'all gonna be wrong just by default. But you got to keep as your career evolves, why do you do this?
What are your reasons?
And getting that backlash when you have a bad night is just a good reminder. They don't love me. No, this is a business. Let me let me treat it as such and not let me get to I can't romance the game too much.
But you also got people that know you're better than your performance too sure, that really supports you, and that want to see you reaching for.
The got to be able to take that on it exactly.
That's that's my point. Everybody that's talking about you not saying it.
To the mean you. They want. They want to see you do better and know you have better in you.
And I take that ship to heart because the stuff they said about me and a brawl when I was, about the person I was when that shit happened. It feels good for me today to sit here today and looking at these people knowing that they're wrong, totally wrong, you know what I'm saying.
So that's what I'm say.
He got people have They have to learn how to use that shit as ammunition, you know what I'm saying, Because they gonna.
Talk about you regardless.
But I love people talking about me because I'm doing something great they ain't talk about nobody ain't doing shit.
So you got to know how to use both of you, know what I'm saying. I'm the master at that.
I'm the master at that because I love people said the worst things about me, and I probably got some of that shit tattooed on you.
Something it's true.
Some of it is true.
Runner.
You spent your majority of your career cleaning out the super super middleweight division hundred and sixth They then you became the king of the lightweight division, like heavyweight streaming like heavyweight one seventy five.
A story career.
Uh, let's go through a little bit of Michael Kessler into the Super six tournament. That was special. I wish they would do that again. Talk about your experience that Super six Tournament moment.
I had to really be who I said. I enjoyed that I got thrown into the deep man, I I was. I was talking in the in the in the in the water. It was up to my you know, my waist, and then they took me out the pool and threw me in the deep end.
That was the coming out party. It had to be.
Yeah.
What I mean by that is if I don't perform, I'm a sink. It's gonna get ugly. I was in there with all the dogs in the in the division, So yeah, sinker swim moment Man. One of the hardest punches I ever fought.
Really yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
One of the hardest punch I ever fought. Hit me the jaz just one jazz straight shot in the first one Bio. I said, everything they said about that power is real, and I don't want to get hit with that again. I start boxing, boxing, beautiful, beautiful fight that night. I can't let you hit me with that again. I felt it.
That's the part of the first round. Everybody ain't got that. Yeah, everybody can't change up like that.
Yeah, because that's one of them. You know what I'm saying, that's one of them. You could easy going to self preservation mode quick and be like bro. You know so I was smarter, but I was still trying to get mine on.
Yeah, it's the difference between going to survival mode. But you you you were still fight. Yeah, you knew not to take a points, but you still was engaged.
Ye.
Yeah, I'm trying to win.
Yeah.
When I said I'm trying to win, I'm trying to win bad Chad Dawson Man. I got a lot of respect for Chad Man and I feel bad about that fight to this day. Yeah, I feel bad about that fight.
You had to do that to him. I had to to do that.
He said my name. But I feel bad because he got tricked. Gary Shaw's promoter. I'm sitting there watching a fight with him and Bernard Hopkins the second one, and like me and Chad wasn't close, but like I watched him from a distance. James Prince was was both of our managers, and I respected his fight game. You know, I'm like, man, I like Chad was not think. Chad was not on my radar. And I'm sitting there with my wife and he beat Bernard Hopkins the second time
and Max Kellerman, who you want to fight next? I want to fight Water. I fight him at one sixty eight, one seventy five and I come to Oakland. Looked at my wife, I said, what I hear? Jay like Jason, Yeah, I heard it.
We're gonna hold the time too.
But he's a prime example about why you gotta be you gotta think man. He was so eager and he said my name. His promoter, Gary Shaw at that time, leaned in, call our ward bad mistake, bro number one. That's cool. If you feel like you want to fight me, the best should want to fight the best, and I was at the top at that time in my weight class and he had just beat but now the second
time he was at the top. But dude, you negotiated the whole fight on HBO and we held him to everything, so I knew he gonna be weight drained coming down right. But I'm also not gonna give you a pass either. And that's probably one of the best camps I ever had, because I had to come right with Chad. He was that good. And I talk about this in the book. Probably like three weeks before the fight, Verse called me to his house. We had a two like two houses
side by side in training camp. He said, hey, man, I just got the one with James Prince. He said, Chad got knocked out and sparing, I said, knocked out. But so he got knocked out by one of one of my old opponents, Edison Miranda Edison. If he can't do nothing else, he can crack. And first thing, I'm thinking, they gonna they're gonna they gonna cancel the fight. He said, no, they trying to get it together. They're not gonna care. We had spies everywhere. Man, when I'm fighting everywhere, we
knew everything. I knew the days he took off. I knew the good days he had and spared. I knew the bad days he had. So I thought the fighter was gonna get canceled. He said, it's not gonna get canceled. I didn't say nothing the whole three weeks. It didn't leak nothing. The whole week of the fight. We seeing each other press conference here there, and at the way end we faced the face. I still didn't say nothing. To that moment, my team John, his team John. I
looked at him, so we looking at each other. I leaned in. I said, hey, bro, I heard what happened in training camp. You better tighten it up tomorrow night. And I leaned back. That boy said his whole face dropped, shoulders slump. The fight was one right there, damn done. All I got to do is execute tomorrow. The life went out of his body, like, oh you knew that, checkmate. And then I went there the night of the fight and took care of my business.
But you know who did that. Tain't did the same thing to Ryan.
Remember that he told him about his real the day of the press come.
He told him right up there, I heard you got knocked.
I heard you got knocked out, and heard you got a real problem, and he told him and he just knocked him out the same punch.
If your team is not if your team don't have feelers out.
You're working, they're not doing their job. Yeah, speak to for the casuals, the importance of that weight dream coming up, coming down, and what that means and how you can get back to that your weight the day of the fight.
Like, speak to that and to touch with his question, how important those those one seventy five to the weight?
You know what I'm saying, the seven pounds in between.
Like, if you've been at a weight like check dad was at one seventy five for a long time. You don't come back down. Your body's adjusted, you're getting older, you don't. You don't come back then, you just don't. He should have made me come up. He should have challenged me and say, hey, you're doing your thing in one sixty eight, come up to one seventy five. If you want to fight a big dog, that's how you do it.
But you don't.
You don't. Yeah, you don't cut, you don't go down and wait. So that's an issue even with Ryan, Like if I'm Ryan. I'm not taking that clause, right, If I'm tanked, you can't knocking for taking that clause because you didn't have to take it. Only think Ryan is big of a draws. Tank is Ryan was a big draw too. They don't do them numbers if they don't have each other. And Ryan should have said, look, bro, we're not doing that. That's when you use your social
media if they doing that in negotiations. Look, bro, I want to make the fight, but this is what he's trying to do.
Right.
He trying to weaken me so and.
He got that kind of following too to move the needle point.
So him being just overly eager and trying to you know, be too zealous to make the fight, he took a clause and it probably hurt him, but I think it would have been the same result without it. You know, I like I like Ryan, right, but you know Tank is a bad boy. And they talk about the power and all of that, but Tank tank doing to set that power up very skillful, underrated skills.
What you walk around at, like when you was fighting, what you walk around at. So when I was like, when you're not in camp.
I'll be about ten or fifteen have you over.
So say you walk around at one sixty eight, but you're fighting at one forty seven and you and you take and you trained for two years and to keep that way down in one forty seven for two years.
That's not gonna take a toll on your body.
Yeah, it's gonna start to get you, yeah, for sure. Yeah, but it's that's why your team got to know.
Like, because that's what he did after you. Guys.
Yeah, it's a it's a it's a it's a misnomer in boxing that you know, if a dude has been at a weight class for a long time, he's the bigger guy. I don't believe that. Yeah, I don't believe that. When I went up to one seventy five, Covilev had been there, he had a whole career one seventy five and I started at one sixty, went to one sixty eight and one five. I was the smaller guy on paper,
but already knew it. I knew your lifestyle, I knew how he got down, and I knew that, Bro, you struggle to make weight, so you may look bigger, but you're not gonna be stronger than me. And when you struggle to make weight like that. Right around that fifth sixth round you start to feel it. I don't care how great to shape you in the body, saying I
can't this. The boxing is the only sport where you drain yourself for three months, crazy right, and then get twenty four hours to rehydrate and it go be great the next night. Everybody else get to walk around, I mean, get to play it. Whatever weight they walk around, it's my playing weight either football, basketball. We don't get that opportunity. So it's no way you can strip your body down covid leb, Ryan Garciia, Chad Dawson and get it back
in twenty four hours. It's not gonna happen. But guys get caught up. And that's the Oh he's bigger than me? Is he stronger?
Though?
And covid leb wasn't stronger? So yeah, you stay had to wait a long time. It's gonna get to you. It's even like it's even like Bud and EJ right, Like people keep talking about the fifty fourth thing, and it's like them moving from one forty seven to one to fifty four. And my thing is like you don't think be stronger, right, right, This is a two way street, right, you're talking about what right?
Right?
So they need to move up, but you don't think bug gonna.
Be strong right exactly exactly.
The gotta help me with that one, yeah, exactly.
So that's another question.
When they when they when they have that twenty four hours to rehydrate, what do they do because you can't eat too much to get too heavy, like you don't want to be sluggish, Like, yeah, biggas, So what's so what's the best thing y'all do to rehydrate?
Biggest thing is hydration just drinking. Yeah, you gotta get that fluid. You gotta get the fluid in you like that. Yeah, some people do that. Yeah, you gotta get the fluid in you. And and you also but it's tough because it's like it's two things going on. You're hungry, but you're really thirsty. You're more you're more parched than anything. You're thirsty, and it's hard because you're trying to drink the fluids, but then you're also trying to eat. It's
a tough thing you gotta do. So everybody got their own way on how they hydrate. And my thing is like get the fluids in me, and then when my stomach settle with the fluids after a couple of hours, and I get some food in me. And you don't want to stuff yourself up, but you gotta eat because what you eating on a night, the food you eat the night before, that's what you're gonna be fighting on the next night.
I'm gonna read a quote here I consider one of the best fighters of all time. He had a sense of class about him, which I absolutely loved. He wasn't your typical boxer. When you hear that from Michael Jordan, what does that make you think?
Man, that's big. Anything coming from Mike, that's Mike. You know, Mike don't comment on everybody, so you know, and that's one of the reasons why you signed me, and Mike don't sign everybody. So it's big, man. I appreciate it, and I'm comfortable, man, with the legacy I left, you know, in the ring. Absolutely, if they would have called me a couple of years before, they probably would have got the other guy they was looking for. You know what I'm saying right, Yeah, to turn up and all of that,
they probably would have got that. But you know, for me, Man, God had brought me through a lot, and I was still changing. Even when I turned I was still in the process of becoming you know what I'm saying. And I had seen a lot of that stuff growing up, you know. And I don't knock nobody in how they get down, but for me, I was like, Man, I'm a fierce competitor. You're not gonna step on me. And no promotion or nothing like that, no press conference, but I'm gonna try to do this in a classic way.
You're gonna you're gonna feel feel my presence, but I'm gonna try to do this in a classic way, your way, the way I felt like God to do it, because at the end of the day, I knew my career was gonna be over it at a certain point in time, and I'm not trying to build this monster that I got to live with now and retire.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
I dropped my kids off at school. You know, I'm able to still do business. Me You're talking about it all the time, doing business and these projects and stuff like that. I wanted to have a life outside of this sport, and sometimes the sport wants you to crash out and they don't care what happens.
To you after at all at all.
So I've been able to make a great living outside the box and being retired six years now and I ain't took it through a punch in six six years. That's what that was the goal.
That was the Jordan.
Let's talk about jo because I'm on the joy Into.
But Who's your Reggie was one of my reds Mark Ravelin.
So for me that was growing up and not being able to afford them and have been sponsored by Jordan.
That was the best feeling, one of the best ones I've ever had in life. Man, talk about it, getting them boxes, them elite.
Listen, you still get them?
Yes, yeah, I need to find your repen. I got a boxing about four months. Yeah.
Hey, motherfuckers back Larry.
Miller, that's my brother. Man. Larry said, Man, you're a Jordan athlete for life. I said, Mary, hold you do it.
Always too.
Yeah, But man, like I don't know what it is with me and shoes. Always was a shoe person. I look at your shoes first, and I look at everything else.
You can tell a lot some clean shoes a lot, you can tell a lot that I just.
I used to call my grandmother Grammy, what shoes you got on? I just that's how it always was. And my dad used to tell me, he said, this boy, ever get some money off a whole lot of shoes.
Dude, and I do clean shoes. It's just like looking at the one with Opatow shoes on, he ain't done.
They beat up.
That's a lot but that. But that's also the culture in the Bay too, like we'll have some some Jordan's on and some regular jeans and a white T shirt.
Yeah, yeah, what is your shoes clean? Yeah? You all right?
Yeah, it's the same way today.
How did the conversation and the deal come together for the Jordan thing? And what was that first conversation with Mike? Like did you almost pass out when you met him?
Man?
I was, I don't get in. I don't really like get in all with a lot of people, and not from a disrespectful standpoint. I just you know, it's like that's so and so that's cool.
But Mike is did Mike is different.
Mike got an r about it, like he not even trying.
He just might.
Yeah.
So they just you know, they had that. I was on the radar and it was a lot of you know, back and forth and they'll send me a couple of boxes and stuff like that. And it was a lot of talking. But you know, it's a couple of years of that and then then we finally locked in a deal. But Mike Man, he got he got all Man, he got, he got it. He walk in the room walking right now, everything on stop.
He don't want nothing fake around him.
Yeah, he don't want no fans when he want everything family in genuine.
He don't want like he a normal dude.
He talked crazy and he competing to this day, whether he golfing, and you know he like to play cars and stuff. Man, I got a lot of love from Mike Man, a lot of love. When I was getting ready to do the documentary, my brother, uh Deontay Thomas and we grew up together and he worked with be Small Productions, and he was like, Bro, we gotta get Mike. Like, Bro, I'm not calling Mike, not doing it. So he was going back and forth for weeks and I said, Bro,
I'm not calling Mike. Bro he said, Bro, just calling You gotta be able to do stuff like this if we're gonna make this doc do what to do? All right, bro call him. So I called Larry Miller. I said, Larry Man, look, I know Mike busy. So I did that whole thing. He said, let me let me make a phone calling and see what's up. He called me right back. He said, Mike wants you to call him. Head up. So I called him.
Man.
We flew out to North Carolina to the facility. We knocked it out. That was the easiest interview we did. That's how Mike is a last car.
We still ain't got to sit down with him, but that's how he car Like Mike Romos. It's a little different. Yeah, we ain't talk to him like that, but we still wasn't on the interview. But he said he's with us coming.
He came this. I called my kids though, So we were all in like a boardroom at the facility. He come in there scanning shoes.
You bet not have nothing. You know. I was good, You know, I was good, Mike.
One of my one of my guys had on some Adidas.
Though.
You don't care if it's Guccia or whatever. If it ain't Jordan, it's not they.
Take like people that's in that industry. Oh it's serious.
Yeah, he takes this.
He came in. What's something about everybody?
You know? Everybody?
What's up with your man? I'm like, what you mean? I said? But I told you, Bro not to wear them. We can get it right, man, But yeah, your boy good, but he got he ain't right. He ain't right for that.
You make him take his shoes off almost damn near Bro.
We went to NASCAR.
How the NASCAR team they got them all they won.
Jordan's about changing tires.
They take it here, it's crazy take it.
He take everybody though, that's dope.
Uh.
Any truth that he would text you had a fight sometimes or before fights.
He just send me voice memos all that year. Yeah, And I'm not comparing myself to Mike, but man, we got a lot of the same juice and mentality in terms of like it's win or die. It ain't no win or lose, win or die period. And people will be like, hello, you come on, man, you're taking it
too far. No, That's how I felt like I used to think in training camp on them tough days, like man, what Sunday night, late night gonna feel like after this fight Sunday morning, when I wake up, I'm thinking about looking at my wife and my kids, and I remember the last loss I had and what I felt.
Like you said at fourteen, though, yeah, that's crazy.
John Reverish from Baton Rouge, Louisiana Country. We was in Lenxic, Kansas at the National Silver Gloves Nationals and we in opposite brackets fourteen fifteen year old division, so he was fifteen, so he's a little bit older. And I'm out boxing people doing my thing, and it's three rings, so you kind of see like, man, you fighting, but then the dude you might fight, he fighting in this ring right after. So I'm watching him the whole week and he knocking
dudes out. Bang bang, they going out, man, And I remember seeing him around the hotel. And I didn't tell Verge this, but that's the last time I ever got intimidated and allowed myself to get beat before I got in the ring a mental side and I wasn't spook like oh my god, but I was like, well, he kind of strong, like I had a little hesitation about me. It was a closed decision. Of course, I thought I won.
I should have got the nod, but deep down I knew when I was going home, I'm on the Southwest flight, had a whole road on myself, curled up in the ball. I remember that. I remember looking at Verge's face and looking at my assistant training his face. I remember being home that week and ah, man, you lost hunh. I remember that, and I never wanted to feel that again. And I made up my mind that day nobody will ever beat me Before they get in the ring with
me again, they gonna have to earn it. I lit your appearing and I let you, being a little older, and the way you was taking care of your business getting me never again, Never again.
Favorite J Eleven's for sure.
Really, I love eleven guys. I love elevens, but I also love the ones too.
He's the first person I heard.
I love the ones because I can dress them up and dress them.
But you got I'm gonna give you a chance.
What's your favorite for?
And I love for too.
Yeah.
I love all the ones I couldn't afford when I was a kid.
Yeah you know what I'm saying, Like, I couldn't get there, the.
Threes and four us, that's the dope boys growing up, they had them on the block.
That's the ones we always wanted.
The ones I couldn't afford them the ones I gravitate.
To the mom You ever consider using some retros and and and shape them in the boxing shoes?
Yeah, I would love to. Man, Like we we took a couple of runs at it with the with the Jordan team, man, and we weren't able to like get something that can go out. But like I got that kind of mind, man, Like, I think about like that kind of stuff all the time because I'm you know, I'm a creative type. And it's a need for that kind of stuff in boxing. Like GE's some shoes out there. Most of them are not great. You got a few that's like they okay, But we need something that's like
standing test of time. It's like Roy's uh boxing boot you know that he had with Jordan. That thing lasted over a decade strong And I might be putting something out like that one.
Come on, Mike, you hear him quick question?
What was what's your relationship with Mantell?
I ain't talk to him in years?
And man, that's my boy, because when we was playing, yeah, he was going to relationship.
We had the same uh, we had the same lawyer at that time, Jeffrey. That's what it was so we connected. Man, that's my boy. Man. He always showed love.
Did he ever get involved in boxing, like as far as on the management side of.
I don't think so. I think he might have had a young fighter.
I don't know if he you know, a kid from d C because I remember one time he stayed here trying to get into it.
Yeah, but I don't know if he actually ever did though, But he always showed love. Man.
Bro. He's doing great right now.
Yeah, he's in Dallas, great father with his family, his son and his daughter doing great in sports. Yeah, you're doing good right now. Yeah, his soning just like he like him and all that. We don't hear much from you out the way.
He don't want to be.
He've been trying to get him on the show out the way you look at the message and just talk about something else. Really. Yeah, he don't like to talk. Man.
He originally from what Louisiana.
Miss Mississippi. But the way, you know, we all have a little especially you know, and he has that right.
The way his career ended, the game didn't appreciate him the way they should have on his way out, you know what I'm saying, They kind of pushed him out and treated him.
You know, it didn't do it.
They didn't game, didn't do him right going out that I can see why he kind of stayed away from stuff. Remember that, you know what I'm saying, because he deserved more.
Twenty fourteen, you have an unfortunate setback. You got to sit out a year due to some legal dispute with your promoter, JANKI promoters. Can you share what happened and how often this kind of happens with fighters?
I would say this, you know, I can't get too deep into it. And it was really two years. Oh really, I think the simplest way I could put him in as I was fighting for what I believed in. And I'm a type of person that when you know, my mind is made up and I feel like it's something I need to do, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go for it. And but it's really one of the hardest times in my life, man, because I can't really talk.
It's a it's a it's open litigation. Promoters they got they got the media, so you hear you see headlines like oh, War would rather fight in the courtroom than fight in the ring, Like what sinse do that name.
They controlling the narrative, the.
Money going out, no money coming in, like you think I want to do this, and the media made it into I'm being selfish, I'm being a bully, I want more money, and I'm wasting my career. It's like, dude, do you realize that, like fighting is what I do? Do you realize that this is how I provide for my family and how what y'all saying makes no sense? And y'all never took the time to like get to the bottom of the situation. And a few times that they did, I would explain it to them and we
just don't get it. And I just realized at that time, y'all not gonna get it, Like we're not the same, Like you have a certain mindset and I have a different mindset. And even to this day, people are trying to give me credit for my career, but you know, you lost two years. It's like, nah, nah, I ain't lose two years. I gained two years, Like I preserved my body two years. I learned a lot, I grew a lot, and I got my respect to that negotiating table. So the next deal that I had were rock Nation
front and center the whole way negotiating through. So they don't see that kind of stuff because boxing at that time it was a lot of you know, still a lot of writers involved in so like that's new media now, so it's different.
But but they probably didn't want to see that side anyway, because their side sold the papers, pushed the imager.
That's not good for business, right, that's not good for business, Like, just shut up the fight. And I'm just not built like that, you know, Like I studied the game and I would ask questions like why why why the fighters always end up with no money? Why always messed up? And he would try to explain it to me, and I just knew, even before I really knew what I was saying, like, I don't want to do that. I
want to be different. But it take caurage, though, because when you're making that kind of fight, you're not just fighting individual fighting the media, you fighting the narrative. And the deal I did with Rock Nation, I was with them three years before I retired. I made more money in that three years than I did the ten years previously. And I've heard people to this day, well, you know, the Rock Nation thing didn't work out the way you thought it was going to. And I'm like you sure
about that? So it's all these little narratives and stuff that you got to fight through. But what I love about the game is that my peers, the younger ones, the ones my age, and even the older ones, they get it and they respect it. And that's really all that. It's not about the media. It's not about your YouTubers. It's not about you writers. Y'all are gonna have y'all perspective for any sport. Y'all, notice what your peers say
about you. That's really matters most, and that's the truth, because they gonna keep it real immediate, y'all, high and low, hot and cold, depending.
On the that we got someone in here, DeMarcus Cousins just that narrative of issue problem this, But you asked players around the league. He was a killer and you go.
In the league right now and be a top five big man right now in the league.
But the way they put it is why he's not playing, because they controlled the narratives.
You know what I'm saying. It sucks.
Shut out, Boogie you in the building. Uh you spoke to Rock Nation, speak to that relationship how that came about and what made Jay different.
I followed Jay the business side of his life for years, you know what I mean. And I said this in the doc that everything he touched seemed to be successful. And you know, we got through with the lawsuit. You know, j said Rock Nation. I was like, what you mean. I didn't know about the sports part. I mean, I knew they were agents in the game, but I didn't know about the boxing part of the sports agent. He said, they're getting in the game. Jay's a big, big, big
boxing fan and he wants to sign you. So that's what started it. And like I said, man, me and me and me and me, Jay and my lawyer who's my good friend, and my brother, Josh Duby Man. We negotiated that thing together. And you know, desert Rae Perez and one and Jay z Men. I appreciate them, you know, for believing in me. We believed in each other because I was taking a risk on them too. And uh, it was the right thing that I needed coming off that lawsuit.
Because it was new, not to cat off, but it was their division was new, right, the boxing.
Boting division was new. But I didn't want to go back to the old, same old thing that I had just come out of. Right, you know, I respected that time and season of my life, but it was time for something different. It was time for something new, something innovative, and rock Nation was the answer.
I've been honored to be to be in this boxing space now getting accepted by a lot of the boxers, you know, being a basketball player, and I'm honored to be in the space. And I got a show which I love to have you on coming up and all the fight times. I had a lot of champions on my show, and we talked about the politics of boxing. Give me your take on the politics of boxing then, and what would you change to make the sport better?
I would say the politics that there's politics like it like it is with in every sport. A couple of things. I think you got to learn how to navigate the politics. Can't fight every battle. It's a time to speak, and it's a time to be quiet and watch and process and digest what's going on. And then you got to get to a certain point where politics, opinions, narratives, they don't move you like I'm a firm believer and I got this concept from my pastor. He said, man. He used to call him minute man.
Man.
They hating on me. Man, they you know, Man, I just fought a great fight.
They saying that.
He said, Oh so the media, He said, Man, stop giving these people so much credit.
In your life.
Like what you mean? He like, they can't do nothing to God, don't want don't allow them to do. And if he's allowing something to happen, it's for a purpose and a plan to build you and teach you and grow you. So it shifted my focus where it stead of y'all hate, y'all blocking, you can't block me. And that's not an arrogant statement, that's a that's a that's a fact. You can't do nothing that God won't allow you to do. And if he's allowed on it, I
gotta I gotta ask, Okay, God, what you're trying? What do I need to get out of this? So, yes, it's politics. You got to learn how to navigate that, Like I said, you got to know how to move with the politics. But at the same time, at the end of the day, man, you can write what you want to write, you can say what you want to say. The purpose in my life is gonna be fulfilled. The only thing that can stop it is me if I crash out, But if I stay the course, I'm gonna
let this work for me. And I'm gonna forgive y'all in the process because y'all saying stuff a boy, my family, y'all saying stuff about me. Man, I forgive you now. I'm not gonna do an interview with you, but I forgive you.
Man.
I'm not gonna hold that against you. But y'all not gonna stop like I can't. I can give you a list right now of things that the media said was not gonna happen in my in my career, or question marks that they had, or you know, things that they say, Alway's got an amateur style, he can't take a punch, He's not gonna retire undefeated, He's not gonna beat this guy.
Nobody wants to see him fight. Oh he's born. All these things, and I just kept chipping, kept plowing away, kept chipping, and it got to the point where when y'all finally gave me just doing respect universally, I was, yeah, see y'all later, because I really wasn't in it for y'all y'all's approval. I had a mission at the timetable. My time is up. So I beat the dude the second time that y'all didn't think I was gonna beat the first time since I had questions the first time.
Let me put this stamp on it right here, and I'm out best fighter in the world, I'm gone.
What fight do the world need to see right now?
Yes, man, that's a good one.
I want to see Canelo. I wouldn't mind Canelo fighting Terrence or Benevidez. You got two options. You go somebody in your way class, or you can try to pick on the smaller guy, Terrence Crawford against Terrence right now with no against nobody, body don't doing it. I would love to see Tank fight Shakur or Devin. I know that's probably a little early, a little bit more seasoning. I think that'll make the most sensum a financial standpoint, and I want to seek.
Yeah, that's what that's that's that's the fight.
And they didn't rumble a lot.
That's the fight.
They didn't rumble a lot in spy, you know so. But but I really want to see but go out the way he want to go out, and he can. He can go out if and I don't know if they're gonna do the rematch him and Arrow, so they can run that back. But if they don't, I would love to see but get Canelo and then right off in the sunset.
Yeah, I don't know if I want to see the rematch with Spence. That was brutal.
That's a lot of money for both of them.
If there's a ton of money, that's a ton of money for both of them.
I think they got to do the rematch regardless, how if the same thing, So what's it's a great business.
Yeah, but still that's taking I feel like you don't want to see. It's gonna take some years off his life.
Bro, the car, all the stuff he has been through has took a toll on this. This next fight is not gonna do nothing more damage than it's already. You know what I'm saying, he's already.
I don't know, but it can. Yeah, come on now and it will a new punch. Come on, man, that was.
I mean, the fight go the same way, just the same damage.
But it's again, it's happened if that's a whole other layer, I'm saying, happening again, the same kind of damage happening again.
I just don't see it being that.
I don't see it going I see I see budd winning still, but I don't see it being that dominant.
That's another that's another car accident.
Yeah yeah, right, face first, j he no one.
Way like he's a fighter. He gonna he gonna bring it, no matter. He ain't gonna make no excusees. He gonna bring it.
That's how I feel, right, he gonna bring my attitude. You gonna understand what I'm saying.
But look, but but but no one way too. So that's that's that's two Max trucks to having another accident, another collision.
You gotta knock me out, but that thing.
Will that they's gonna stay with you though, right we look we stopped watching the night of the fight. All right, man, I'm moving on.
You know I was a good fight.
He got that punch with I got hit by a car and got up and shooting again.
So I ain't got no understanding different, But understand you would have got You can't make me understand if you would have.
Got here with that car three more times, it would have been a little different. Last till your I would have got hit by the car again.
Though.
Let me just chime in as a guy who you know lived it, took a few punches and dished out a whole lot of punches. It's gonna good.
Yeah, I don't feel that got to here.
The thing, they getting older, the miles, they racking kids.
You want to be able to do it with your kids.
Just like saying you retired, but somebody run up on your dispect, you ain't gonna fight them.
Them hands still works, they still work.
That's automatic point. That's all I'm saying.
But I'm saying like, but he you're still going as a competitor. Listen, if I'm in Erol's position, I'm gonna really need some counselor and not take that next fight. I'm gonna need my pastor, my wife, my brothers, people. I need y'all to really sit me down and explain, like, help me understand why this is not a good idea today. I understand about my health, understanding that, but he beat me, and he beat me in such a way. I gotta get that back. So I understand that from a competitive standpoint.
But me being out the game six years now, me being a big brother in the game, me knowing how that punishment can start soaking in, especially when you get older. I don't want to see it. From that standpoint. This ain't no disrespect to EJ. I love that dude, and I love good. They both my brothers. Yeah, but I'm gonna keep it a hunting. You don't want to go through that again. EJ is good with his money.
Took care of his stuff. He lived his life.
He didn't been through a lot with the car accident, multiple two of them. One of them had him in the hospital, the other one he walked away from and and he fought after that. And then he thought, but man, we're talking about we talking about quality of life. Bro.
Yeah, we don't have no understanding the texts though.
Sorry y'all, but but but I understand what you're saying. That's why I say I'm gonna need counselor.
And not take the fight shield. But that's that's how I live my life. I'm going out if if I go out the dumb way, it's the way I want it to go. Yeah, I'm not barring nothing. I'm standing in front of in and everybody, So you you taking the win to lose. I'm not backing out from nothing in life.
Nothing.
They say, Man, you can take this fight, make half the money and then maybe see how you feel and then maybe come back to But you're gonna.
Do that, I would do.
I mean the business decision, but I'm still taking the fight.
What I'm saying, you're not gonna not take the fight, I'm not gonna not take the fight.
I respect it.
I'm not And that's just how I live my life. With anything. What you're gonna do, man, you ej Come on, man, the quality of life. I love my kids. I love to be able to talk. That's why to do all this other show. That's why we work. Go ahead and crash out, go crash out. I'm go crash I'm gonna be happy with it.
But I understand.
I understand.
I respect it.
I definitely that don't check the mind.
I see it.
But at the same time, I feel like.
We are.
We and our man forties. Like to me, I'm thinking like life after basketball, life after boxing is way different, you know what I mean? And you see people who've been punched drunk and have issues.
Now you've seen basketball players that can't walk.
It's real anyways. Uh you once said, when I walk away I want to have a body of work, not just in the ring, but as a man that young fighters could point at and say, man, I could pull off something from I could pull something from that dude. Anybody in the game that remotely reminds you of yourself today?
Yes, your core probably fault.
Yeah damn not identical. Bro.
When I hear his mind like that, dude really like one of his problems. He don't leave a gym like. I got to a point where it's like, Bro, I'm not sparing unless there's some money on the line. Nless I gotta fight, I'll go hit the bag. I had to mint that I'm not taking no punches unless it's training camp time.
Bring yourself out.
This dude was fun, Like, Bro, I did sixteen rounds a day. Why he loves it that much? So when I'm around him, he reminds me of my younger self, the one that just loved boxing before the business side came in. And you know, people keep questioning him being a dog and all of that, but he he got plenty dog in it. He got plenty dog in it. But he's still trying to figure it out. But for a fighter like Charkur, all these fighters really, not just scharkur. They trying to figure it out in front of the
whole world in real time. So you're gonna see the bad nights and you're gonna see the good knights. So he still got a lot left that he's gonna accomplish, and I'm excited to see it. But yeah, he probably Chour is probably the one that I say, man, he mind me and myself probably more than anybody.
By far, the best defensive fighter I've seen since you and Floyd. Yeah, by far. It's not even close. We're just talking about him. Who's the most skilled fighter today.
But but it's definitely one of them, for sure. Takes your cord, Devin, Boots, Boots. It's a lot of them. It's a lot of them, and they're skillful in different ways, you know what I'm saying. But somebody that like I can bet the house on. But because me and him, me and him, we so much alike in our mentality. Like soon as soon as I see this dude, he come in the room where I come in the room, we start arguing my basketball, wrestling anything. Bro Like, Man,
you can't, man, you look at what you meant. I'm looking at small you look at like it's just that, like you gotta really hurt that dude to turn them away and to try to stop him from doing what he want to do. So skillful, yes, but this and this it's different.
Man.
It's not a lot of guys like that out there currently. It's a lot of guys that talking. But until you get in that real fire, I'm not saying a guy you fighting a guy you should beat. I'm saying a guy that's a fifty to fifty matchup. We don't really know what you have. You don't even really know what you have. And I've seen Bud testing. I've seen Budd tested outside the ring. Things that they said about him, how they treated him, narratives that were that were that
were put everywhere about him. And I seen him fight through it. I seen him push through it. I've seen him navigate. I've seen him you know, like Bud is a but is a business. He's a he's a business but he's a businessman. And Bud just don't talk about a lot of his stuff. So now everybody love him, but but been that guy, but has been marketable, But has been a great fighter. But people questioning his resume anybody they put him in there with. He handled him
and did what he was supposed to do. He wasn't duck in no smoke. So and I say the same thing for EJ. Like like I remember talking to Earl years ago, like what you're gonna do?
You gonna fight?
He was like, Bro, listen, I'm not ducking him. I just want to get all the belts and have the leverage that I need at the negotiating table and then I'm gonna fighting him. And he did that. So, like Budd EJ, I'm not really impressed by skill. It's cool to see it, like he's skillful. When I see that other side, like, Bro, he's different. He a dog. That's the stuff that get me on my seat. And that don't mean you taking you going punch for punt. It just means that when you need to be that guy,
you can be that guy. Yeah, it's not a lot of people like that in the game that it's a lot of talking but not a lot of walking.
And Bud, it's definitely that. How true was it was?
It?
Is it even true at all that you and Canelo was about to fight? Is that any true to it?
Man?
The only reason why me and me and Canelo was brought up in the same conversation. Is because we thought that we thought a common opponent. Yeah, my name and his name never crossed paths during my career, even after even after I beat covid that nobody said nothing about that. And that's probably the closest I ever came to coming back is after he when he was fighting Covid V, I said he called my name, I'm there, yeah, and postfight press con, I'm gonna talk to my team and
he just didn't do it. So it never nothing ever materialized. But that's probably the closest we that I ever came to feeling like, man, I may want to pick up the phone to call Jay and see if it's something near, But it's just a common opponent. But it ain't no, it ain't no, it ain't no beef, it ain't no PHNK, it ain't nothing. He's never said my name in a disrespectful way. He's never said that he wanted to do that type of dude. No, it's really just the fans, you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, retired thirty two and oh top of the game, number one pounds found fighter in the world. Why did you feel like it was time to walk? And was that a tough walk to make?
Yeah?
I wanted to retire really two three years before I did it. You know, like I started hearing the R word come up in my in my conversation. I'm like, dang, but I still had to drive. But I was like, man, I'm you know, I'm I'm like my father. I'm a I'm all or nothing type of person. My preparation and you know it just you start, you know, you're missing stuff with your kids. I'm in training camp six months
out the year. You know, my body's starting to break down a little bit because I'm because I'm grinding away. I'm grinding in training camp, and I just wanted my freedom back. I'm like, man, I don't know how much long I want to do this. You know, I'm stacking my money. So I'm like, all right, I think I'm good on that front. And it just got to the point I thought I was done after COVID ed one, you know, based on how the training camp went with
the knee everything, and then went in to fight. Some people felt like I won, some people felt like I lost. It was just like, why am I still doing this and what's the point. And I stayed out of the gym probably for three months, didn't touch a gym and I had never done that, and I didn't miss it. So I was like, man, this is what is this?
Like this?
I ain't never felt like this before. And I went and talk to my pastor because he had the same walk. He played six years in the NFL for the Raiders, and then he walked away. It became a pastor never never came back. I said, man, and I thought he was gonna co sign how I was feeling. I'm like, man, I ain't feeling it. I ain't got no desire to be in the gym. And he was like, I think I can see you doing one more He's like, you ain't got to gott to be what you rather you
do or don't, but think about it. I think I can see you doing one moment. I remember being upset, like man, like, every time I get ready to try to talk about retiring, it's all the way the gold post get moved. One more year. Now it's one more fight. And I remember leaving there kind of dejected, like, man, that's crazy. But he was right though I had to. I had to seal my legacy the way that I did. Now,
they always gonna have something to talk about. But for me, I had to make sure there was no doubt what happened to the first fight and leave no doubt the second fight. And I felt like I was gonna retire. But before the second fight was over, like that, I was.
In my mind.
Got some rest a month or two after the fight, and I started like, man, well, maybe you know I could do a couple more, Like let me all these deals. My Jordan deal came up, they was getting ready to, you know, pay me. My HBO deal came up. They wanted to do a commentating deal and a boxing deal, so it was a lot of money on the table and I'm like, man, well, maybe a couple more. And then I woke up one day and I was like I don't want to do it no more. And I
remember I had tears in my eyes. It was like early in the morning, and my wife was like she didn't really say nothing. I remember thinking like, girl, I'm like spilling my heart right now. You ain't got nothing from me. She was like, look, man, take the kids to school. We'll talk later. And we ended up talking that night now, mind you, She's the one that was always telling me, I ain't time yet, baby, it ain't
time yet during a lawsuit period. Man, if I can, if this lossuit keep going on, Man, I'm gonna retire on my terms. Baby, it ain't time yet. That night she heard me, she said, Man, I ain't never heard you sound like this before. She said, I think the decision has already made, And I never heard she never co signed that, and I was the first time she ever co signed it. And I got on the phone immediately,
let's start undoing stuff. Because my HBO deal, I was getting Redy to announce it in two days, a new three three three year deal. All my deals, I was getting Redy to announce. Jordan I renewed, HBO I renewed. There was a couple other ones on the table too, And I remember just I was like, for real, and I just I didn't waste no time. I got on the phone with my lawyer and we just started doing stuff. Man, and I haven't looked back now. You asked me a
question earlier about it. You know how hard it was. It's probably one of the hardest things, outside of losing my father, that I've ever had to deal with and for a lot of reasons because I had I've had to retire multiple times. Like it ain't just that day that I retired. It's that drive, that hunger, all that stuff. Y'all know, it don't go away. But what I learned
is I got to redirect it somewhere else. And what I also knew, I've been doing this my whole career, but it got you know, more or less confirmed after my careers, Like boxing is what I did. You know, it was a it was a you know, a teacher for me, Like, but it's not completely who I am, you know, Like I said, I'm a minister in the past, a youth pastor, and like that's my real call. That's what I'm really called to do.
You know.
Speaking is one of my gifts, you know, Motivating people, helping people, encouraging people, Like that's one of my gifts and that's really what I'm put on this earth to do. So it's really just trying to embrace that and understanding I have my time and just embracing a young life man and encouraging a young life and trying to help them as best I can. That's what's fulfilling.
To me, love it home stretch. We almost finished twenty twenty one. The Boxing Hall comes calling, legendary class, yourself, Floyd, Vladimir, Clitch, Clo, Clitsko, Leila Ali, to name a few. What was that like?
Man?
It was It was surreal. It was unreal it man, I bro bring tears to my eyes because like that class was crazy. Like I was upset at first because it got delayed because of COVID, But then when I looked at the end, I'm like, bro, look at all these people I'm getting inducted with, like my big three, all the people I just named to you, they're in there. I grew up watching Leila, I grew up watching Ann Wolf coming up. Like I think Shane was in that class too. I couldn't believe it, man, Like I'm the
baby in the buy. I think I'm the second youngest fighter ever next to Wilfred Benitez, that ever got inducted into the Hall of Fame. And I'm sitting up here on the stage and it's like I couldn't believe it. Like I know I earned the right to be there, but it's still hard to believe. And I think the hardest part for me that week was just like really just allowing myself to enjoy it and embrace it, cause
I don't celebrate my wins very well. My whole life is always been yeah, you did that, We're gonna enjoy it for a couple of days. We gotta get back up, you know, we gotta get back to work. And it's just always just pushed my accomplishments to the side and just keep grinding. This was one of the times that I had to really smell the roses to and embrace what was happening. But it was surreal being in the room, being in a room with them people. I mean, it was crazy.
Winning the goal. Hell of experience. Can you talk about that in ATHLETs.
Man, It was special. It was very very special. And part of the reason is because I almost missed it, that that moment we talked about that barely came. Bro that barely came, Like I barely got myself together in time to qualify because at that time, like normally you win in the United States and you're on the team and you just go to the Olympics. But they changed the rules where you get on the team and then you got to qualify your weight class by doing another
tournament and then you can go. I just everything had just like fell into place right on time. And I had just lost my father fresh out the streets. I just gave my life to God, trying to figure it out, got two young kids at home. It was crazy. We had just gone to war in two thousand and four, so we had like a six secret service with us the whole time. Like it was. It was crazy and man to look up and be the last man standing on that podium, you know, it just it's just surreal.
But it's that's some were planned since I've been a kid. Like it don't sound normal to normal people, but like for us, like a gold medal was like realistic. We was like, we got eight years, you're gonna win the gold medals, never about bronze or silver, and to like actually do it, and to do it coming off of what I just came off of us. So even my teammates. I was talking to Andre Derill the other day, He's like, bro, now I understand why you was in your room a
lot of times reading your Bible. Now I get why you were you wasn't doing certain thing. Now I get why you were so focused. Because he understands the story behind the journey. Now, Like, Bro, I was almost lost my life and a lot of my teammates they young like I was, so they like all they got, you know, they they probably got life going on, but it's really about boxing. Dude, almost lost my life and God gave
me a second chance. So you've seen somebody that's a little bit mature and was trying to lock in on God and then't fight for my dream. So I was a little bit different. Now they understand why because they got the story.
Did you ever think you're a stunt man?
Never? Never pulling stunts and creed? How did that happen?
Never? Man?
Ryan Coogler, Ryan Coogler, Man, that's my brother. Yeah, Ryan Cooler, that's my brother. We had been hearing about each other. We come from the same you know, we're both from Oakland, and we finally connected and he was like, Bro, I got a roll for you gotta roll like I don't act. He was like, I gotta roll for. He took the bar, which is a train station for us in the Bay Area, all the way to Cheese k Factor. We sat there. He broke down the whole scripting, Like Bro, he said,
I had you in mine. Bro. This this person is from Oakland, same career background, gold medal, all this stuff, and man, it's one of the best experiences of my life. Super hard work, those twelve hour days, but it's dope. Like you get your script the night before and you get to your trailer, you got your outfit for that day, you got all these you know, these cast members and all these extras and stuff. They in the arena, so it's like they dressed up like it's a fight night.
It's crazy. Like I loved it. Man, I want to do more acting.
Speak to his greatness stuff.
Man.
Man, Ryan Cooler is different, Bro, He's different. When I was on set, I don't know how old Ryan was at that time, but man, he had to be probably in his twenties, you know. And I'm seeing a young dude manage your room with all these middle aged people, different walks of life, different races. I'm seeing him commanded. Then he had slide up on me when I'm in the reing you good, I'm like, I'm good, bro, Like are you Eastern?
I'm good?
Bro? Like he wasn't shaving, he wasn't cutting his hair, nothing, because like, this is my opportunity. I went from Foodvale station of this, I was giving a Rocky franchise. I can't lose, man. I got so much respect for that dude. He would call me at two in the morning after we shot.
Like, Bro, you're good.
I'm like, Bro, I'm good. Like why you're not sleep Bro, I'm just trying to make sure you know you're good. But I appreciate what you're doing. I appreciate you. The charisma he has, the mindset he has, and how he moved. Man, it's different.
Bro.
He very quiet. Bro, but that dude got a wealth of knowledge and he got respect the.
Whole the whole room.
He commanded respect from the whole room. So what he did with black Panthers and all that stuff, I wasn't surprised. I was just proud.
We uh yeah. I got a chance to go up on the Disney lot when he was first shooting the first one, and we just walked around and looked around and there was nobody to look anything like us. He was taking me to the different stages in different spots, and I'm just like, Bro, this is unbelievable, so special. Special dude. Big Warriors fan obviously from the Bay any memorable moments as a Warrior fan.
Yeah, Man, you know the whole run they had, you know, when they were still at Oracle Arena in Oakland. Man, I was right there from.
Different me.
Us.
People don't understand though, It's what Oracle used to be about us.
What you was around forget come on, forgive me.
But Oracle was a character in itself. It was because you could smell the weed at the top of the buildings, like it was.
It was different, Bro, I man, Bro, I used to we had all these executives at the fight, HBO, all this stuff, Show time too. And I'm in the locker room. Bro, I'm looking at I looked through the curtain. I'm like, Bro, they hot boxing.
The whole, the whole fight, the whole Come on, bro, Like they don't go to tank fights. List don't go to tank I.
Was an alliance. Then it's crazy. I'm like, these people looking at us crazy. They came and they supported me, but now they that's why they call it rural though, because it's different. Like a lot of my opponents, what was your tough fight, the fight that you They always go back when I went to Oakland, they just they can't really explain it, but they didn't like it. They didn't like it.
Steph Curry intended a few of your fights, got a chance to build a personal relationship that we talked about.
Steph good brother.
Man, very humble as you know. He just like he's a superstar, you know it just doesn't act like one, which is very very rare, and he keep getting better. I'm just proud of him, man, just the way he has lived his life on and off the court, and uh yeah, it's a beautiful thing to witness.
This dad molded him to be who he is.
You know what I'm saying, He's exactly who he's supposed to be because his dad is such a stand up guy.
His dad was wasn't an All star, wasn't one of the best. He was one of the best.
Shooters, but the guy he was everybody respecting. You know what I'm saying, step is the same way. I'm well put you on the spot. Before we get to these quick hitters. Top three NBA players of all time.
Oh, I ain't gonna say no order, just give me three for me, Jordan for thank you, Magic for sure, and uh man, I need you one more. I love Reggie Miller.
Okay, this is the odd three we've ever heard. History said, We've never heard that three before. This is the first time we heard that those three guys.
Reggie don't Reggie don't get shouted out or notough.
Reggie doesn't have a championship because our dumbass. Yeah, but I'm saying that's why he don't have a championship because of us.
But he was a killer in Christ truth respect.
Not much competitor.
Dog.
Nah.
He wanted the ones from Meggie, is that no question?
He wanted the ones from me for sure. Oh, Gary Payton.
Town business the glove.
I gotta talk to GP because I saw something that bothered me recently. Vernon Maxwell say he knocked him out in practice. Was there he didn knock him out? He said he knocked him out. Okay, all right, it was he put something on it. He got off, all right, quick hitters. First thing to come to mind, let us know, if you can sit ring sided any fight in history, which one would it be and why they gotta be like any fight ever that actually happened.
Mm mmmm Sugary Robinson fight. He had one hundred and something, so pick one. But Sugar Robinson, it's different.
True a true boxer, Sugar to say that, because like anybody else would have said something, fight that we all.
Know, Sugar, I want to see what rings like? What that looked like?
Yeah, top five box all time?
Man, y'all out here, make let me work today. I'm gonna give you my big three, Roy, Bernard, Floyd. I'm gonna say Ali.
And Robinson easy enough.
I thought I was gonna say.
Hey, I got on my wall in my house. I respect it. But I'm gonna say but I'm gonna give my my three in my era. And then I gave y'all to just.
All all time. I get it fight night or training camp, rotation. Three artists you're messing with.
I don't know if y'all know the Cray Yeah, come on, gospel rapp Dodshi my boy KB Yeah, gospel rapper and uh and the Truth the Truth he from Philly, another gospel rapper. Yeah.
Something you wish you were better at anything, don't even have to be boxing related. Man.
I wish I could sing, Wish I could hold a note blow.
Ye, God knew not how to let me sing. Boy, I would have been sucking the mother if I could say.
It really wouldn't have been fab Yeah, boy, you really been on.
I would have my hair weather pause because I'd be shaking my ship.
You could sing.
If I could sing, I would hold a note five din against that are alive.
Holly Robinson.
Uh my daddy m m yes.
At this point in life and talk through it. Yeah, my grandfather, we called him dad.
And uh.
Mm hmmm.
We'll come back to that one doing during this interview that I'm not. I wasn't the Hall of Famer and the and the superstar and my sport as you are on yours. But during this interview I realized we were like we more like than I thought we were. Yeah, especially the way we think about our family, how much we care about like the father and all that type of stuff.
Like all that stuff resonate with me. So I'm glad. I'm glad you came.
Bro.
We more like than I thought. You want to get.
M hm.
One guess you would like to see on all the smoke real quick?
Probably my probably my uh my fifth one will probably be my grandmother.
Grandmother three family, two boxes grandmother.
If you if you can see one guess on all the smoke, who would it be?
Y'all said y'all had roy already.
Yeah, but I'm gonna interrupt real quick because we named three heavy hitters on this show tonight that you cool with the guy to put the shoes on your feet. I didn't finish the question though, the manager, the manager of Rock Nations, and the little homie from the Bay. Yeah, so go, but finish the question.
My bad.
I interrupted. But before you answer your question, you have to help us get your.
Answer on our show.
So it's got to be somebody on your phone. Be moved, bro, No, so I did. I did something different with him, But yeah, I've been I've been trying to get him.
I ain't been on here.
Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy episode I did. I did to sit down with him. He dope.
Yeah, that's my.
Best moved shout out to all right last one childhood crush. We can't let you go home without this one man. Yeah, and whoever sending him his boxes. I ain't had a box and fold months.
They're trying to tell you. They've been trying to tell me for the last couple of years. But I've been threatening people, so maybe my threats ain't working.
No more. Got a letting people for shoes and yeah, I did most of them.
I'm gonna tell you how I'm about to I'm about to spend this one. Me and my wife, we married, we married young, we met young and married young. So his wife wife is my childhood crush. I respect that because when I seen her, It's like, who's that? And uh, she was different.
She was different from the bank. She from Seattle, Okay.
And it's crazy because it was like it was a bunch of people around. I had just went to go visit my brother for the first time because he moved from the Bay Area to Seattle. So I went and visiting him as his birthday. They was getting lit out of h out of school and they was in high school at that time. We always in high school. And I'm like, who is that? And like I hadne had crushes, but like she was different. Like so when I seen her, I liked her. When I talked to her, I really
liked her. And I knew without even fully knowing how that how it was going to happen, if it should happen, how it's gonna happen. Man, I want to be with her. And to this day, bro believe it or not, Man, twenty years we've probably been together twenty two, been married twenty Man, I still got that same love for that girl, same love, and I tease her all the time. I'm like, yeah, I got the girl like I got. I got the
girl that I wanted. So I got to shout my wife, our man to me, and I got to shout her out.
Man.
You know, I get a lot of the interviews and a lot of the press and stuff like that, but she's one of the main reasons why I'm still standing doing what I'm doing. And man, she a soldier. Man, I love my wife cause she ain't no scary wife either, Like she not closing her eyes at ringside, like giddy giddy back. And I can't tell you the amount of stuff even to this day that I bring home to her. But I'm trying to talk through it then through it.
And man, she's solid, bro, she's so wise. And man, I got the girl that I want her good.
Man is a great woman.
I'm grateful for my wife.
Well man, thank you. We appreciate your man for someone who to me, I felt like, really didn't get the respect that you deserve. But it's just like, to me, after this interview, none of that shit mattered to you. You know, your path was what was planned out and you made it work. And the transition you made, although now we know it was tough, you made the transition look seamless into your next, you know path. So Man, we appreciate your time, we appreciate having you, and best of luck.
Bro Man, I appreciate you. But I'm gonna say one last thing before I go. You know, I know a lot of people, and I know it's really because they rock with me and they support me, and I appreciate that when they say I didn't get the respect that I deserve, I really did, though you think so from the right ones. Yeah, And what I didn't get it wasn't mine. And I truly believe that that. You know, God blessed me, you know, in many different ways. Just
I'm just gonna use boxing through the boxing game. But he he ain't let me fall in love with it so much that when it was time to walk away, I couldn't walk away. So he me get my taste and and and you know, he let me get my love and stuff like that, and it's and it's worldwide. But he also blocked me too and didn't let me get so much that when it was trying to walk, I couldn't walk. So I'm at peace with what I did.
I'm at peace with what I received, and I'm at peaceful what I with what I didn't receive.
Beautiful. I see you got your lineup on point in this motherfucking cover right here? Where can everybody get.
I gotta shout my boy out of barber he in Vegas.
Yeah, boy is winning right here. And I'm not talking about the book. I'm talking about the hair. Where where can everybody get your book at? Right now?
You get the book anywhere? Books you show, uh, you let your bookstore, Barnes and Nobles, you can Amazon, you name it.
I'm gonna keep this one. I'm gonna keep this one.
And the audio you get the audio or the physical copy.
D man.
We appreciate your time, time, brother, I appreciate you.
Man. Man.
That's a wrap. Andre Ward and so g the new all the smoke you I don't even know where you catch this?
Now?
Where you catching is that?
It's not? Is it?
Is it? So YouTube?
We ain't got to say that no more? Manus now yeah we owners now I gotta say.
That all the other boy catch us on YouTube, you know, we're gonna be where we're at with a little bit more money this time. Man. We'll see y'all next week.