Mm hmmmm.
Mm hmmm.
Welcome back all the smoke, Day three, Los Angeles. Jack has been a nice couple of days. I got the opportunity to finish strong with someone who's man been in the game since he was a youngster. Brought us a lot of classics. Welcome to the show, Alan Hughes, We appreciate your time. Man Award Roaming Director, producer. What's new? How's life? We know you just dropped Dear Mama. I'm unemployed right now currently speaking. You know what's funny when you do the it must be the same thing in sports.
It's like when the season ends, it's just no more. What was that? Like?
Fight or flight? Is the whole time fight and fight and then once it's over, it's like, Yeah, you have to learn what to do with your time.
Before we get into Dear Mama, which was absolutely incredible, and we'll get into that. As I told you before, I'm a huge POC fan and obviously have followed your guys's journey together, the ups the downs. Let's get into that. How did you guys originally meet I met him.
I keep saying a waffle house, but that's a Southern thing. I met him at a pancake house in San Francisco when my brother and I went up there to do a digital underground Basically a digital underground video was a money be had a group called Raw Fusion. But Digital Underground was so tight that when we met with them, shot g everyone's at the table at the pancake house, you know, and Tupac wasn't famous yet, and I didn't know he had just signed a record deal and juice
was in the can, but he still wasn't famous. And it was clear at the end of this kid at the end of the table was the most charismatic, the funniest.
He just was.
I was drawn to him immediately.
And you guys are teenagers this time, nineteen years old.
Maybe an eighteen because this is early. And then when we had a private moment, he said, I just signed up record deal. I want you guys to do my first music videos. The next day was our first music video. That's how crazy that was. First, that was our first music video. We were up there for we had these little short films, these little Super eight films. One was called The Drive By, one was called Menace Society, no relation to the film. And he saw those and sure enough.
Three weeks later the record label called us and we were off to the races doing all three of his music videos for his first album, debut album. So that was Brenda's Got a Baby, Trap, First Trap, Brenda's Got a Baby. By the time we got to Brenda's Got a Baby, we were having difficulties in a relationship and then we had Then third video was when my Homies called We Just He basically directed it. By that time, the relationship was really rocky.
Dear Mama a piece that was based off of Feenie. But I read somewhere that once you kind of decided to take it, you kind of wanted to intertwine the two worlds between him and his mom and obviously his greatness and his mom's activists talk to us about obviously you know, you guys had your ups and downs. You know there's a story where he had his homeboys get at you. How hard was it for you to really kind of say, like, Okay, it's been X amount of years, I want to I want to take this project on.
You know what we were I was making the Defiant Ones, which came out in twenty seventeen, and that was a four part series on Doctor Dray and Jimmy Ivan and their partnership. Part three was the whole explosive era of the early nineties and death Row and then ultimately Tupac and I remember while we were editing that Tupac just kept taking over the movie. Literally, like for a whole year,
he was taking over the movie. His energy was you can't help but to go where energy, the energy is, and I kept wrestling it back from him because he's just he's just a rock star, you know. It's very difficult not to let that energy take. So that's when
I was like, wait a minute. I started dealing with his passing for the first time, I think, and Easy as well, because Easy was my first mentor in the business before I even met Tupac or anymore, you know, and I was dealing with Easy's passing and I was so I was having like an experience on defined ones, and the estate came in and to approve things and disapproved things. So Tupaca state, they're not they're not easy, you know, they look at everything. So that's when it began.
And then when they approached me a year later, I was like, nah, I don't think I want to do this because I didn't want to do another documentary. It takes everything out of you too, you know, and it's all it's real people. You guys talk about Glow Tupac's aunt. Now you know you're dealing with a real human being. This ain't the movies, This is not pretend. So it goes in your spirit and soul and you become a family with these people. So when they approached me, I didn't
want to do it because of that. But also I'm like, I don't know if his fans, a lot of his fans don't want to like me, and what are they going to think of that? So I was having that that but I went home and I thought about it. I said, wait a minute. I was raised by a single mother who was an activist in the women's rights movement and radical to my mom, was radical like a like a Fenn. He was my mom's Armenian. I said, wait, if I could find out about him through his mother,
and that's my experience. And they were with it. They were with it. They were like, yes, I heard, you know.
Obviously Pok's ashes were dumped in a beach in Malibu when they all gathered, and I heard there was a piece of paper that was sled to you and you kind of found out the address and expect because I thought that was super fascinating talk to us about that.
I forget Matt me doing his homework and shit, that's why you guys, man, you guys are the best in this game. I think, I really like the conversations you guys have are the reallest ones I've ever seen. So I gotta be careful. God damn it. I'm not a big maliboup guy myself, you know, but I had it was least in a place on the beach way up there,
and for a couple of years. And in that meeting, the second meeting where I agreed to do it, someone from the estate slid an address to me and I looked at this address and and me, I'm like, why is she? You know, this address is like seemingly right next to where im at my house was, And at the end she said to me, that's where we put his ashes. And I went, whoa, literally like steps away from where my house was. And I was like, all right, well,
meant to be that's going. Because I also knew too, like and agreeing to do it, I knew I was not take bullets. You know, there's not be misunderstandings initially, but I know when people get to see it, they'll see my heart was absolutely in the right place because I'm trying to find it understanding and as black men and black women the people of color all over too, like, we can't be having misunderstandings. These two dudes ain't here
because of a misunderstanding. They just weren't communicating, you know, they were shutting themselves off. So let me go ahead and take the bullets show people that at fifty I'm willing to look back with Snoop too. You could see Snoop looking back and going, hey, these were boys making silly decisions. Now we're men and we can analyze this and help our children, you know, look at things in the right perspective.
I feel, you know, well, we got a chance to. I mean Snoop laid on that count and smoke like ten blunts while we interviewed him.
That was one of my other favorite interviews.
Yeah, oh my god, you know, but me kind of talking to him off camera and on camera, his kind of before POC left, the odds they were at and obviously read up on you and how hard was it first of all for you to kind of forgive it, But then also when you said you went back and you saw that he had there was recordings of him apologizing that you never knew about. And how hard was
it for you to you know? Once he passed, and I guess you said you start reminiscing during the defiant ones to kind of be like, damn, I wish I would have or like when did that kind of kick in for you?
I knew a few years ago that I wish I was mad enough to go see him in prison, that I kind of knew him, because in the back of my head, I just felt my spirit that I wish I was maddening because I knew I would have had a captive audience. Quite literally, he would have heard me, and I would have heard him, you know. Uh. It wasn't until I started doing press about six weeks ago that I realized I have a tremendous amount of compassion
for him. Now. I never had compassion for him, you know, And that's a big word, you know, when you're talking about like a journey and understanding someone. So I feel him now like we all feel Tupac, we feel his music. But I go, oh, wow when you see the film, and that's the revelation I think in the film as you go, Wow, look at all this shit he came from. Look what he was born into. Look what the expectation was. Look at the trauma he inherited. Look at the PTSD inherited.
So there's all that mental health stuff that again in the black community, we never talked about in the nineties, let alone the eighties, seventies, and sixties. So when I saw a year ago, it was only a year ago. I saw the Tabitha Sore and MTV interview where he not only apologized again, but she asked him. I didn't put it in the movie. She asked him, would you ever want to work with them? And he's like, no, they're great filmmakers. I would hope that I can work
with them in the future. And that gave me goosebumps. I never knew it existed, right, you know, And I was like, wow, you know when you look at Tupac. I've heard this from a lot of people, women especially, They're like, I want to hug him, I want to save them. I want to you know, like if I could have just he knew he was great, but all that stuff, I don't know if any of us could have sat down and got him to sit down, you know. And so I look back, you go, should it could have? Would have?
Yeah? Well, I mean the one thing that I really want to and I was able to watch the doc and found was just his constant workload, how much he was on the move, and how much he would do in a single day. And it almost just seemed like and you guys painted such a great picture of it, seemed like, you know, obviously an untimely death, but he was going to burn out somehow, some way. He was just going too hard as far as just life.
Yeah, we call him runners. My mother taught me that my mother's a runner. My mother's a hustler. She went from welfare to millionaire on her own, single mother. But she didn't start doing therapy there later. And you know, a lot of people that build empires are just running, you know. And you see people like they just all their days or they got families and everything, but their days are stacked with all the work. You're running from something,
you're not dealing with something, you know. And that's what I felt. And God bless him because he had every right to. When you come from abject poverty too, you have every right to be running towards the mountain of goal for you to. His credit to was always about his family and his people and other people that he wasn't even related to. When I knew him, you would go when he had no money. He lived right off of Lake Merritt in Oakland. He had no money. He
was in a bumass apartment. There were always teenagers in there that he was taken care of like orphans. So he was always about the community and whatever. So he was working that hard for everyone. You know, it wasn't just him running from his own demons. You know, I feel you know.
The success of Dear Mama, the ratings through the roof overall, I mean, how do you You've done so many great projects. How do you look at a success of a project? Does the outside opinion matter? Or you know that I put everything I had into it and I'm good, I'm at peace. I mean, obviously this rated high, and everything you do rate it high, But how do you look at success?
I caught a couple of bricks. I think you measured it like we did a documentary years ago. My brother and I American pimp and it's very hard to find that goddamn thing. Try finding it, right, But it became a cult classic, right, and then the time was really painful because you're like, is anyone But I see people along the way years it really affected them or they they memorized whatever it is. So you know, you gotta with Dear Mama. I know, I put my I put
my soul into it. So I knew before we had the ratings record at the network and one hundred percent of Rotten Tomatoes with the critics like everyone the culture digging it. I didn't know what the culture was going to think. I didn't know everything I'd think of me, but I was prepared for it. But in hindsight, before all the good news came in, I was like, you know what I told my partner, I said, you know what,
people may get this ten years from now. Don't expect for them to get it now because it's very emotional, it's complex, and I didn't think. I didn't think very many people.
Now we got it now, trust me, we got that shit right. That was incredible. I mean, obviously with the v and Dear Mama, but I think you know, you're early vision to obviously intertwined and look at him through his mom's eyes. I've never seen I'm a huge Pok fan. I've never seen anyone just being able to break down and talk and then show so many different sides of him. You know, Like you say, you think you've seen everything out there on him because he's been gone for so long,
But you guys had shit that no one had seen. Instrumentals, you know, putting different beats behind his music. Just the creativity of the project overall was just like I was blowing toy Binge watched me and my girl got in a fight because I just waught that shit straight. I'm like, baby, I got to interview him, Well can you do that? I was just like, now I'm watching this shit straight. This is what it is.
That's an emotional five hours shit. Yeah, it was a lot of people talking about I didn't expect a lot of people talking about crying. A lot they're crying when they've seen this thing, and I'm.
Like, wow, you know, I help my tears. I held my thug tears back. But yeah, you could definitely I can see where people can get it, though.
Now it's a it's with him. The number one thing is I wanted to understand him, and I'm also gonna want to be DJ, so I wanted to make sure that you know, we we felt him, we heard the words. I have a rule in the editing room. If Grandma don't understand, it's got to go. And that's a lot of reason why we took the beats out sometimes and just had the words the compositions so that Grandma can understand.
Are people that aren't necessarily Tupac fans can be brought into the poetry because I was never a poetry fan. I don't understand poetry. I'll just be real. And it wasn't to this journey, I'm like, wow, this dude really was a poet, Like, oh, I get it now, you know, reading this stuff and hearing this stuff, and also keeping in mind, move hip hop out of the way, move acting out of the way. Tupac first is an artist,
like a pure artist a poet. And when you're a pure artist, when you see his journey and he painted in life with his life, right. I talk a lot about the delusions of artists. Artists live in a fantasy world. They don't see what normal people see. So a lot of that stuff with Tupac when people have this misunderstandings about him, even that night in at where he shot the two dudes, two cops in the ass, right, he's not seeing what we're all seeing. He's seen another movie.
And you have to add that in there too, not just the activism, not just the way he was raised, not just his emotional state, you know, not just the fact that he's a method actor. But you have to add in there that there's these dreams and hopes and fantasies of a pure artist, and it's a it's a different world.
Born in Detroit, youngest brother by nine minutes. Does that count, right? I got twins too, they're six minutes apart. Anything early days, you remember, before you guys migrated to California.
Big ass rats like Ben remember that movie Ben Mike made a song about this shit. It was real sweet. There ain't nothing sweet about them, big ass rats without the tale. We got a cat one time Detroit. We were living in this tenement building. We got a cat. Dive fuck off the rats, right, and and the rat I'm sorry the cat, I'm the cat went missing. Like we hired this motherfucker to, you know, to get the neutrints. Check this out. Two weeks later we got a little
slid and snow. That's it without the tail. Two weeks later we had a slid and we're going through the snow. That motherfucker was laid over there. Whole cavity opened up them ratually eating his ass a lot. That's Detroit, that's all I remember. Fuck a cat.
Uh you guys move out to Claremont, California.
Pomona first, that's what difference.
Yeah, different, shout out, shout out, Damian Roderick, sugar Free, that's the sugar freezer. Yeah, no, no, my home, but snoop some way personally, that's that's froma But yeah, sugar Free was out there. Sugar Free was actually born in the Bay, wasn't he.
All that makes sense now.
And then Alna right, yeah, yeah, but then moved to Pomona. But yeah, the ie so to speak from Detroit, what was that like for you? You know, Armenian and black correct.
Yep. When we got out here in nineteen eighty, Reagan had just been voted in the office and things changed were changing, you know, and being from Detroit then too, there's there were always jokes, like you say, you from Detroit, everyone goes. It was a it was a badge of street honor back then, even though we were little, little kids, but it was a culture shock to seeing palm trees
and not going through the four seasons. I think it's important for kids to go through the fourth seasons, the fall, the you know, all the leaves and all that stuff that happens outside of California. But to see to be there and be eight, nine, ten, eleven years old when all the programs were taking away we know now after school programming programs, you know, all that stuff that we were relying on not to fall prey to gangs and drugs.
We were at the epicenter of that at that age and that era, you know, and I know Detroit got eviscerated by crap, you know. So it was happening in all communities, you know, of color and obviously throughout the states. So it didn't it looked sexier out here, but it wasn't much more.
You know, you spoke to your mom, I mean her raising both of you guys, putting herself through school, and you spoke to her hustle speak a little more about how that shaped you, in which your mom was about.
I think that's why we we never like succumb to any of that trappings of like excess. When she started making her money, she still would only buy us three pants, one pair of payless shoes, three shirts, and just payless shoes.
I remember that because you can get three for like forts. They used to make it. At one point they were making them look like the Jordan replicas too, so you can away with that for like the first thirty minutes of school. Then they look at them, motherfuckers, like real good look at them joints.
But she was all about like she would always pay for the arts, like all our friends had Adida suits, suits, track suits, the shelters, the gold. She would not indulge any of that. If I wanted to play guitar, she'd buy any guitar I wanted. My brother wanted to do art any So when we got into filmmaking, she would invest in the cameras and stuff like that, but never into like bullshit, like a material thing craft.
She wanted you to invest in the craft. Yeah, yep.
So once we got in high school and started really doing film and stuff and making little movies, and then getting out of high school, we never got caught up in the party life. We never got caught up in the shit that wasn't important so our career. That's why we made minutes at twenty, I think because we were focused on the thing, not the hanging out part, you know, the excess of hanging out part. We got that from my mother. She's a no bullshit, like what am I
here for? But in the fun way you come to If I show up to a party, I'm not just there to hang out. I'm like, I'm coming to see man, I'm coming to see Stephen. I'm coming to see someone that I know I'm gonna connect to. But I'm not going to just go to a party just to kick it, kick it or get my name out there, you know. So she taught us that that type of stuff where it's just to focus, like what is your what's your path?
She's all about, like what was the saying she got from my man, follow your bliss, like finding your bliss and find a thing that turns you on. And she got us these shirts when we were young. I can't remember, I remember now. They made a huge impact. It was five penguins walking in the line and the four were behind this one the four penguins were normal and the one out front had a cigar, had Hawaiian shirt and said, be unique that she got us those shirts. I go,
why those penguins are those? Now? I look, I go by racial on. I don't know what she was doing, but she was telling us like, stay out front, be yourself, don't fall into like uh, you know, everyone wants to be cool and and like that.
Yeah, authentic self. Question as someone who had twins, when did you guys finally get to start dressing in your own kind of your own personality. I know your mind probably had y'all matching and ship. And I know that my twins used to hate.
It man past five that she was not hot right past five, that ship is cute. For five the first five years I hated being a twin. I still hate being really yeah, because that motherfucker right there in school if he catches a beef for someone, now, I gotta.
Deal with that definitely. What would you guys relate? Were your best friends beef? What was your guys like?
We were best friends and at me all kinds of ship. My brother would get vicious for fights. He throws ship TVs.
So it was.
That's funny. Yeah, where is it?
Huh? Where he lives in Prague? Really, brother lives in Prague? Interesting? How long has here he's been? Over like twenty twenty something years. Because we did this film with Johnny Depp, Call from Hell, about Jack Ripper. We shot that over there, and that over I encourage more people in America, more whatever, get outside, go see Europe.
That shit opens your mind up, you know. And his mind got opened and he stayed there.
Yeah, damn.
Directing as your brother, as the Hughes Brothers, I did a lot of legendary movies, especially in our culture. Let's talk about three of those movies. Ministers Society one. The process of doing that, I mean, I come from it just that whole movie was just it wasn't just exciting to our culture, but it told so many people's stories, the way a lot of people was living, you know what I mean. To see that on the big screen, to see it played out like in real time, like
how ri shit really gone? Like that really did a lot for our culture. Talk about that, the process of that movie.
I think the important thing I remember at the time we were selling that is you remember the cops. That's what we saw. We saw on the news every night, young black males running from the cops. The helicopter point of view. I remember at the time Spike Lee talking about and he was right when Ciskel and Ebert didn't like one of his films, he said, I don't make my films for you, I make it for my community, right, and he was correcting that Menas was different. I felt
we needed to make it for white people. I felt black people would appreciate it and know it. But again, that word understanding, I think we made that so you can see how that kid became that one of the news you're looking at, and humanize them as hardcore as Menace is. You got to humanize, you know, these these these children, their children, you know. And that was the number one reason we made that film was just to get an understanding, so we all weren't looked at like
animals and as brutal as the film was. Also, like people were in the culture, like if you were lucky enough to make up a black film back then, it had to have a message. It had to be kind of sweet and have this good ending. You know, you didn't really have much control over your material. And we grew up on noir film. We grew up on Scorsese and de Palm and all that hard core shit, so we wanted to make a statement. It wasn't a message film.
It was making a statement and it was a cautionary tale as well, and we knew we didn't want it to end pretty. It's part of the reason too. And dear Mama, I grapple with like, we have to be careful about not making Tupac's death sexy because there's nothing sexy about getting shot. There's nothing sexy about dying prematurely. So that was what Menace was about. And now it's a full circle moment with dealing with the Tupac thing, because eily enough, he kind of became that, for better
or worse. He embodied it for a reason and he went out like that, you know.
Can you speak to real quick? I was fortunate enough to before John Singleton pass got a chance to go to the Poetic Justice twenty five year anniversary and we watched it with him and everything. But I thought what was really dope was after he told us who possibly could have played the other characters and who are there looking at? Can you talk to us and in a society about who possibly could have played other roles or who you guys are thinking roles were for.
First of all, I gotta give a shout out to Tyron Turner because he's mad at him and I don't Tyron. I'm acknowledging it right now. He was a raw talent. I saw in a Jennet Jackson video, Rhythm Nation video. I saw him on an episode of America's Most Wanted. He played a blood even though he's from a crip neighborhood. So who is this? This dude was going bananas. I find out he's from that, so he knows that. So
we fought real hard to get him. That was the only right I start with Tyrann because we didn't have anyone in mind for that role but him. We were just obsessed with him. Old Dog was written for easy And I gotta carefully say this because Ice cubas stated a few times that we offered him that role. I don't know who offered him that role. God bless him because.
They were going off a Boys in the Hood, right.
Yeah, we never We never considered Ice Cube because because boys in the Hood and we had this easy thing at the time. But that doesn't mean he didn't get contacted by our casting agents, but in our minds we wrote that for Easy because we were with Easy while we were putting that script together, and that's who we were looking for.
Easy.
That's another story. You know, Cube had had been gone for a year, Dre was leaving when this was happening, and him and Jerry were very controlling. So that's I had to get kind of get out from underneath that. And so now we have to find a new guy, and we're looking for the Easy look, you know, bulky typical, and we can't find Odoll. And then the casting director says, I'll bring you I'll bring in the guys that that
I didn't want you guys to see. And that's when lorenezs Tate walked in and and he didn't looked He looked like a Disney kid at the time, but once I said action, he he was right there. He was what you saw in the film.
He was.
He came with that. I can't act like we gave that to him or you know, he came with that h A wax which was m c A that was supposed to be m c ran first met with him several times, but Easy and Jerry were blocking that, you know, so thank god because uh and Tupac was meant to play Sharif the Muslim, which became the challenge for him. You know, he didn't he signed none because he was
our homeboy and he got the movie Greenley. They said, if we're not going to green light the movie unless you get a platinum recording artist, I go fly up to Oakland and he agrees to do it. But at the time that people have to understand too, like we were so close. The thing, the real misunderstanding where we're all like accountable, is we were meant to be making movies with Tupac. So you can imagine when he tells me one day he's in pre production on Poetic Justice.
He goes me and John Singleton agreed, I'm only starring in John Singleton movies. We're gonna be like Scorsese and de Niro. He gets like that. He gets really once he starts a relationship with you, he gets he's fire. It's all passion. So I'm sitting there kind of hurt too, like damn right, and he goes, no, I'll still do I'll do the supporting role. I'll still do that. But I'm only starring in John Singleton movies. So that's what
happened there. Dead President's Dead Presidents. Shoh, too young to make that movie, that's all. I think.
That's all like how old were you at that time?
Twenty two?
Say you did what you did minutes at twenty yep, and then Dead President's twenty twit you feel like you're too.
Young because when you look at the story, I just think that there's some really cool stuff in it. But the thing that's glaring is when he gets back from Vietnam, You're like, I don't think he struggled enough to go pull that caper off and get that violent Like there's some beats missing it, you know, Like me now as a storyteller going he needed more job rejection, He needed more like real life strife and fucked up shit happening to him, and it just wasn't there was beats missing,
you know. And then there's something that Denzel taught taught me. How do I say this? You can't have your hero compromised and him not go get the dude that compromised him. So when the pimp did that thing to him, at the very least Large's character should have gone back towards the end of the movie and throw him out of a building something, you know, got him and that so the audience at the time, Menace wasn't a hit. It was a mild success. And I think a mena I'm sorry,
Debt Presidence was a mild success. I think it was a mild success because it's so nealistic, nihilistic, whatever the word is. Towards the end, you're like, damn, this dude just got shit on.
Wasn't the pimp a Wall from Mustling Flow.
No, that's a Clifton Power was.
The pimp Cutty Cutty Cuddy.
But as a as a I look at a movie sometimes like a record it had, you know, if there's twelve eighteen tracks in there, he had like five tracks. What As a as a storyteller, now I know, I go, damn, I wish I could tell that story now because now I would know how to you got seen Deer Hunter and all that ship.
I haven't who, but who who was the no, no, no Tower.
That's not thinking about Tara Tower was in the movie.
Yeah, yeah, terrencewer that's some thing.
Terrence Howard. That was one of his first roles. I was taking with him when he came in, he came in from Lorenze's role Anthony, and he came in as we know him, and I'm like, dude, you're not getting the starring.
Roll butt, you know.
And it was his first movie or because he did Mister Holland's Opus with Richard Dreyfus and Dead Presence was his first movie. Yeah, Chris Tucker. I was it working with him. Man, Chris. He was awesome. He is awesome. I went and saw there's the Comedy act Theater down there. We were looking for some we were going to see someone else and I saw Chris and Chris had one movie in the can and it was Friday. It hadn't come out yet. I didn't know that. So this is
essentially one of his second movie as well. He was extraordinary. A lot of that stuff in the film was ad lite. Some of it we did in rehearsals and put it in the script. All this stuff was and I wish again you talked about like youth being wasted on the youth. If I had to do it all over again, I'd
put more Chris Tucker through the whole movie. He kind of drops out for a while and then comes back for the heist, and when we test screened the movie, like not only just the humor, but people really felt his dramatic chops in that way when he sold all big time, he was good, he went all in. I would make I would make these mixtapes because there were no playlists back then for Lorenz and all the guys with you know, Curtis Mayfield, Isaac Hayes, all the stuff
from back then. Just get them in the vibe, you know, and we will watch old movies, whether it's surging lyone movies or like Once My Time in America obviously good Fellas,
not good Fellas, I'm sorry, Apocalypse now. Like we just sit down all his like you know, twenty one twenty two year olds and just have sessions where we were studying the Godfathers, all that stuff just together with all this old music and getting getting him into the lingo because there's the movie the mac Richard Pryor is in it and Nate Chris and Lorenz studied that a lot for the rhythms and the linguistics.
Motherfucker, can't you buy that straight? Twenty? I get him twenty right, getting twenty ready? You cant you get into five from you? Right, five plus seven, five plus seven plus two from you? Motherfucker?
Can't you a rest taper for home, a rest for hose?
Look look.
Right now, say Johnny, you know the name of the game, me seek win. We can have this like some gentlemen. Oh, we can get to some gangster ship. Oh you how cortable is that movie? The whole movie? That movie class?
Also, in case you didn't know, Alan, this dude's ready to jump on anything you got. Hey, before you even go there.
A famous line from that movie is on the Chronic album straight up. Hey, you really don't understand, do you?
Hey?
You know how to make this thing work.
We got to get rid of the pimps, prostitute hustlers, then start all over again.
Clean niggas, you crazy, Come on, let's go, let's go.
By the way. How dope was Richard Pryor in that movie Classic? He's really speaking that.
Ship speak talking that ship. Yeah, he was in his own too. Oh man, ninety nine, you released American Pimp. Uh where did just that mindset and felt like the need for that film coming from.
I gotta be careful with this one because we got sued for this.
We didn't have to talk about if you don't want to.
No, no, no, it just it just it comes from my father, you know, and just wanted to understand him. And and you know, my mother and father went two different directions. She became a feminist radical. He got off in that culture, you know, and and we lived in that culture in Detroit. That's the part of Detroit I remember the most is being around women of the night, teaching him to read at seven years old. It's funny, but it's it's you know, I've had to deal with that as an adult now
and go whow. I was waking up with with prostitutes, you know, in my house and and recently having to go, oh wait, that's not normal, you know. So that was me and my brothers trying to reconcile. My father was an American pimp, so and my mother taught us to put women, no matter what, on pedestals. So we were always in your and our hearts broken, so I said, back then, we always did. At the time, we thought we did an American pimp as a reaction to our mother's feminism, not
the de gray women at all. But to go, hey, man, let's balance the shit out and go hang out with these guys not knowing the father thing whatever, but it was amazing. I remember about six months into shooting, American pimp Rosebud asked us, He said, how are you guys doing in your relationships right now? I said, why is he asking this question? And we were like fucked up. He's like, yes's what happens with squares hang out with pimps.
You guys can't do it. You know, you come home being all empowered and shit like, no, no, I ain't taking a trash out.
You take a trash was like, ain't flying.
I got pimp friends for life, now, you know.
Come on, man, bucket Eli twenty ten. You got to say, you say you learn from Denzel, but what was it like initially working with him.
I think you're working with Denzel outside of Johnny Depp, who was a star as well. But when we work with Johnny Depp, he hadn't become the Pirates guy yet. You know, Denzel, you know, you got to give him credit because I think he's the greatest movie star of all time. When you look at the stat sheet. He's a real theatrical actor, meaning he can do Broadway. He's done Broadway. He comes from that. He's a twenty million
dollar plus movie movie star. He's got that thing that first that tupadcasts, that thing, that that charisma, that it thing, and he can do and he's black. So you got to give him more credit than Mel Gibson or anyone you want to give credit to, right because he's got all those things and despite being a black man in the business, he has all that that. How do you say he just became He's everything. He's everything, So to be around him and to collaborate with him, he would
you learn more through osmosis with someone like that. Although Denzel does have sayings and stuff. What's one of his famous ones. We do what we have to do so we can do what we want to do. I butchered it. We do what we have to so we do what we want to something like that. He has a lot of those. But he teaches you. He taught me about like when he shows up on the set, that's the money right there, like everything you just got to get focused and and it's intangibles. I don't know how to
describe the things. He taught me a lot about, like when you're doing a project too, like what company is to set. Do they really believe in it, How they're marketing this, how they plan on rolling this out, the whole process, the whole process of because we do a lot of stuff that's great, but no one sees it, and you learn as you get older, like well is that worth it? So he's very strategic and intelligent about like, all right, what's the project. Who's my fan base? We
can't offend them. We got to build off of that. How we marketing positioning this, When is it coming out? So he understands the whole business of it, and I'm just learning that through him. Was extraordinary.
You know, the talk to us about the creative process for the soundtracks, particularly to a Minister Society, Dead President's obviously Dear Mama, which he just dropped. Obviously, how important is that to the piece that you're putting together.
I think music is everything. I think it starts with music with me first. I think music is a superpower, you know, and these things too. If you don't have the right music, like with Dead Presidents, it started with walk On by Isaac Hayes. Like that sound, that's what made that, that's at the tone. So we had that before the movie and we tend to cut me and my brother get the music first and cut our design
scenes around the music. And I still do that, and I was more the musical guy in the soundtrack guy, and my brother obviously was collaborated in that as well, but I'm more of the music guys. So I would put the soundtracks together, and we did a lot of successful soundtracks Menace, Platinum, Dead Presidence, American Pimp. So now unfortunately there are no soundtracks, so FX and was like, hey, put the director's playlist together, put the put the We're
gonna do a TUPAC playlist. So it's it's I don't think it's sexy anymore. You don't have the tangible soundtrack and the artwork, but I still design it like all that stuff, and dear Mama, all the way the music's moving is something I'm obsessed with. Again, I'm gonna want to be DJ. And there's TUPAC tracks that like hardcore fans love that are like to me, maybe the beat
is a little not well produced or whatever. I'm a fidelity guy, so like my favorite TUPAC track of all time is shed so many tears because of the whole it's the whole package in one right, and then you go all the way to me and my girlfriend, which isn't which is incredible, like how do you say it? Like musically and what he's doing, but it's raw. You can hear the rawness and blasphemy, hail Mary. These things are like really raw and primal tracks then as well
mixed as set so many tales tears. He's not as polished, which I like that later that he becomes more raw like that, So then you go, hey, later and dear mama, maybe we need to strip away some of these tracks, Maybe we need I like to get the multi tracks and score with the multi track, so you bring in the drum or the strings, and and then you apex out with the actual track and then you start deconstructing
the track again. I did that a lot and defining one, so I like that had never been done before, where you pull all the multi tracks and you start scoring the movie and playing with that with the audience, and I think fans get a lot more on that. They get a whole new experience out of that. So I love that process.
We loved Mass for the soundtrack reasons too, because I had ugk on on this.
Pocket that's right. I always forget that, but because that was when they first came out. Yeah, yeah, in fact, and here's a trivia. No, that's the right word for it. In Japan, minister Society is called pocket full of stones. Really because they minister to society. There's no word for that in Japanese, at least then there wasn't. So I got off the plane and that's the name of the movie, pocket full of Stones. And I'm sure in Japan the stones weren't the kind of stones we were not.
Damn uh uh the finant ones. You've you've talked about that a few times. What was it like working with Jimmy and and and Dre and and and just both of their greatness and and and again inheriting everything that kind of comes along with the process.
Again, you're working with two guys that you're learning a lot about the game and the business. And uh Ray always was kind of like a mentor to me back in the day, back in the day, because I'm a sonic guy, and I'd always go over and ask him questions about recording and mixing and sonics. And then eventually he became like a big brother when it came to the business of what to do, what not to do, and Jimmy's a juggernaut in that respect. You know, Jimmy's
also like a marketing genius. And just as I learned a lot, I learned, I dropped a lot of bad habits because of those guys, I would get hung up Jimmy. The number one thing I learned from Jimmy, because I've learned so much, is when Jimmy's on something, he doesn't when he's like into something, he doesn't get offended. He's tracking that thing. So sometimes Jimmy be all over me and I'm like, Jimmy, you're in my head.
I can't.
I got to go make this movie. And I would avoid his calls for like two days. And the average person, if you avoid their calls, especially a powerful person, when they're getting the phone and go listen, motherfucker like this, then Jimmy would pick up right where he left off, like it wasn't even two days, like because there's no time for that. Like he's and he understands, like it's the thing, it's the thing, it's the thing. Jimmy also
does everything in real time. I'm used to, like if we're all sitting here talking about business and Steve and you're like, man, Charlie owes me like five thousand dollars. We can't do this deal right now until I get that five thousand dollars. The old me would be like, all right, I'll call him later, then i'll call you. Jimmy calls him right now. Hey, hey, Charlie, like get him. Its five thousand. We're trying to make this everything's happening right now. I go, oh shit, I didn't know that.
Like that's how you close that gap. You know all this, I'll call you later, I'll email you later. None of that shit exists with Jimmy. Everything's going down in the moment.
You know. I'm similar to that. But can you speak to just uh Dre and Jimmy's compatibility, almless, peanut butter and jelly, how they just work well together?
Ten s feet and brown shoe, Yeah whatever, you know what it is. I've never seen in the partnership like the one doesn't want to be the other one. They appreciate each other. Yeah, they appreciate you do this, I do that. And I've never seen ego with him, where like the ones kind of on the load there's always that jealous of the one and no and Jimmy. Dre is the synthesizer, So Jimmy's always got all these ideas and Dre's like nope, nope, no, oh hold on yep.
So that that works too, because Jimmy's a mile a minute and Dre synthesizes it, you know. And and Dre Andre's laid. Drey's as I told him years ago, You're the shay Day of hip hop. So he's not. He's never horn himself out there. He's very selective, and I think that that's worked to his advantage and his mystique,
and Jimmy knows how to operate that as well. That old beach thing doesn't work with any other artists, one because of the sonic genius that Drey is, but also he doesn't do everything, so you know, like, hey, this is.
If he's touching it. It's real. Thoughts on the writer's strike.
The writers strike. You guys got writers on this show. Shit, give them their money, man. Writers are like the bedrock of everything. I never understood that in even the music business, like people's getting it publishing jack. This guy really wrote the track, but everyone's jacking him and saying that, you know, like, how do you not respect the foundation of everything? Writing is the foundation of the whole business. How do you not overpay a writer and underpay some directors, underpay some
other talent. I don't. I just don't. I never got that. So they when it comes to the streaming and everything like that, and it's hard to quantify when something's a hit, or if it is a hit, they can hide it from you. That's all bullshit. So hopefully they, you know, we get to a point where writers are not only compensated, but first in line to be well.
Care and care of. You've worked with a long list of greatness. Any actors or actresses you've yet to work with the g'd be interested in working with?
That's a good question. Uh would you say, who is it? Who is it out there? That?
No?
No, you know it's funny because I could see someone on a TV show, an unknown actor or talent, and that really turned I go, who is that? You know when you think of like, obviously, yeah, it would be great to work with de Niro and you know, but I don't think those guys are all like in their eighties now, they don't give a fuck you know. I mean not that they wouldn't work with me, but like this ain't like we're all like in the same sandbox
at the same age, at the same time. In today's generation, there's some talented people out there, don't get me wrong, but it ain't what it was as far as where there's a lot of people you can point towards and go, you know, it's becoming it's becoming a fame game now.
Uh.
And again there are some talent, really talented actors out there, but none that In fact, I'll tell you this, I never wanted to work with Denzel till I saw a man on fire now training date, Like my eye went up. I'm like, wait a minute, like something going on here. But when I saw a man on fire, then I was like, I got a wave man on fire. Yeah, So that's that's how I'm wired. I'm like, looking at you can feel the energy, no matter if they're unknown or known, you go, oh shit, what's this? You know?
Does that make sense?
Absolutely? I'm gonna throw a few names at you in the black director space and just give me your thoughts. Rest in case to the late great John Singleton.
Man, the only thing that makes me sad about John's journey is that he wasn't here to see his show become the success that became. God bless him for that because it was a full circle moment. And if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have schee.
You a fan of Snowfall, Yeah, yeah, late too, like a lot of people. Yeah, Jack l Jack. Jack put me on he was on and early put me on Light and I fell in love with it. Ryan Coogler, I even made my own character. Oh I g.
Ryan, like, Wow, here's a guy that not only did his thing in the independent world, but in the Marvel space with the Black Panther. For so many years people say in this business, black doesn't travel. Black doesn't travel, meaning black doesn't make money international. African American films don't make money international. And for many years I always said, well, put him at the same table, with the same resources, the same marketing, and it will make the same And
Ryan proved that with Black Panther. That's a billion dollar franchise. And they didn't treat him or that character any different than any other Marvel character. And you see what happened.
In Success, I got a quick store. So Ryan used to play junior college football with my little brother. So when I was in the league playing for the Warriors, like he would be spending the night in my house on the couch with my brother and his homeboys. So when uh Fruitville Station came out and I was into it, he's like, you know my homeboy made that. Yeah right, He's like, no, you remember, dude, you to sleep on the couch with the dreads. I'm like that's him. I'm
like what, it's crazy. So then from there we became cool and I went to set when he was first doing the First Black Panther. I went on Disney Wow, and we went and he's like, look around. He's like, you don't see no one that looks like me here, And we walked all over. He showed me all over the Disney campus and he was like on the very first Black Panther and s was dope. You know what.
There was another thing with him that I really love is he's not out there just no.
He's wave but rarely speaks, doesn't like doesn't even like this.
He lets his work speak for him.
So Antoine Fuqua.
Antoy was like one of the greatest shooters of the bunch, Like the way the way his ship looks, the way it feels. Obviously training day, but you know he's a he's a world class shooter like Tony Scott. So he takes black cinema to another level because of the way it's moving and sounding, and it's like on some rock star shit. So I really appreciate it.
And you get a chance to see emancipation, I haven't. Oh that was good, I have it.
Spike Lee, Spike is the you know, Spike likes to think of himself as the godfather and he's he's the uncle of black cinema. And you got to give him credit because there are there are gentlemen in the seventies, Melvin ban People's being the one that comes to mind that are like the godfathers of black cinema, right, But Spike is the great uncle of modern black cinema. And without him, all this stuff that's happening right now wouldn't be happening right now. He had to go take all
the bullets in the eighties when there were none. There weren't none of us around directing and writing films, and if they were, we didn't know of them. So Spike was a trailblazer and obviously, you know, and they're now giving him as flowers later, you know, with the Black Clansman in the Academy. He won for that that ward, he went for that, and I'm glad he's here. And we've had our our complex relationship with Spike as well.
But I'm real thankful because without Spike, I remember when She's Got to Have It came out that fucking opened us all the way up, you know, like and how artistic it was because Spike started as like a real crafty art artist, independent filmmaker, you know, and that challenges he had to even bringing Malcolm X to the screen, by the way you were think in ninety one, that wouldn't be that much of a challenge. He suffered a lot for that.
Wow. F Gary Gray. F Gary Gray.
Got to give a lot of props to I came up with all time. The same time. We're shooting music videos at the same time, and when you look at I mean there's ones in between, but we look at Friday, one of the most original comedies ever done. Forget black comedies period, very original on his shout out the DJ Pooh and ice Cube and whatever. But what Gary showing
up and doing his things. Same thing with Straight out of Compton, you know, like all the way over there, like to understand that that that needed to be seen by the masses. He didn't water it down, but he made it accessible. He made Straight out of Compton that ole, that whole movement is hard to make it so people can get into it outside of the people that love the music. And I think that was the brilliance he brought to that project.
Any projects that you can speak on that you're working.
On, I'm working on Snoop, Spile Picnics.
Yeah, that's work. Yeah, talk to us about that. I don't need to hear about that.
You know. I was been developing things with Snoop for years and then all of a sudden he drops this idea that Universal Pictures is all over it, and they fast tracking and he brings it to me and I'm like, how did I not even think of this as a film, a scriptive film? And I said, you know what, over the years, a lot of people have been wanting me and my brother to go back and do a hood film.
I said, I don't want or do menace. I said, this is the way to do a hood film, but make it inspiring and transcendent, and I think I always tell Snoop, I go, You've got the same energy that Muhammad Ali had. It's like this world wide international love, this energy that if you're eight or your eighty, don't doesn't matter what country you're from. People smile when they see Snoop. So he's a success story. And he's also he uses that word understanding a lot, trying to get
an understanding. He is always trying to broker some kind of peace or understanding. And I'm like, we almost lost him. I mean, he was that close to going to prison, this close for life for that murder trial, and look what we gained from it. You know, look at what an international icon he's become. And he's heavy in his community and doing great things in the community. And I just every time I sit with Snoop, my tank fills up.
I'm inspired. He's a great listener too. It's rare you're sitting around a real rock star that you know, a Snoop listens. He goes hm hmm. He feels it. If you ask my long question, I don't know if you've ever noticed this. You ask him like a long winded question, he goes hmm. He'll answer it chronologically the way you asked it interesting.
I think I think it's interesting you you spoke to communication and understanding with him, because that's what you see when you talk to him, just communication and once understanding and and he listens.
He's also taught me I'm gonna embarrass myself with him right now. Snoop listens with his heart. He doesn't listen with his ego, you know, And that's rare for someone who's been through what he's been through, and it's just famous. He goes in there and he's like really taking it into his spirit, and he's such a sage. Now maybe he always was, but the should he be saying, You're like, God, damn, that's deep.
Any of the movies you've made, you've ever do a part two? Tope?
Oh, we're doing a prequel series to book ELI Really?
Yeah?
Because that makes sense, like how did this?
How you get there?
When did he learn these skills? Was he blind? When was he blind? How do he go? You know when he learned it?
You know, any advice you'd give up and coming young aspiring filmmakers.
Man, that's a tough one. It goes back to what my mother said and easy e taught me this, like again through osmosis, like be yourself, find out who you are and stay true to who you are. No one can be you, but you right find out what your voice. A lot of people don't realize they haven't even discovered with their voices. That's a big deal, Like, like what is it you're here to say and do even if you're not a talker, because some people think you gotta
be talking to have a voice. Sometimes it's a guitar that's your voice. Sometimes that basketball that's your voice. But find out what your what your particular brand of That's what Easy taught me is like what is it that he never said this? I just saw it? What is it that makes you unique? And how do you leverage that into the thing where people can You're taking moving
the medium too. I'm a big believer in studying your history too, because you know what they say, past is prologue, So like study your history so you know where you are and your place is and what you're doing to move the game forward. And because you got to keep pushing the medium, pushing the game. And even when I was studying a Fanny's Journey, Tupac's mother I'm like, Okay, where was she in the timeline of civil rights? What
happened before her and what was happening during her? And any great is going to study the game and study like the ogs and like and what made them great? And what do you what are you taking from them into your game? But you can't be Michael Jordan. You can't be Lebron. You can only be the You can only adopt the things that work for you right and make them yours. So study, study, study, study, study. People
don't study enough. I don't think it's south boring. I think it comes like that before we get you out of here. I mean, you've had the opportunity to be friends and work with so many great people in this industry. You spoke to EASYE being someone who you was a mentor. Can you speak to to Easy and what your guys relationship was like? Easy was his name was Easy for a reason. He was so laid back. And I think Easy taught me a lot about theme too, Like what's
the what's the theme of this thing we're doing? What's the theme of the first n w A album, Fuck the Police, that's the thing?
Right?
The second in w A album, His whole thing was like where we're like, uh, they wanted to be guns and roses and and the whole theme of it was like excess and like punk rock beyond punk rock where it was where man that Niggas for Life album is ill like they they he knew that that. I don't know if the word is theme because it wasn't like this overarching theme, but it was a concept easy, wasn't the concept like And he taught me a lot about like what is there's that whole thing? What are we doing?
Why are we doing it? Those two things come with right, but the how is the thing most people forget, like how are we executing this? What's different about how we're doing this? Because they've all said it before, like all stories have been told. I don't really believe that, but I get it, like the you know, the beats of stories. We've heard them all. So now it's how are you executing that story? That makes it different? And I'll, oh,
dear Mama, like, let's make it a duel story. Let's make the timelines blend, let's innovate this so people understand Tupac more through his mother's journey, kind of like the Godfather too veto and Michael back and forth right, So I think that's what Easy taught me, the what, the why?
And now all right, quick hitters. First thing to come to mind. Top five most impactful films in your opinion?
God damn you. This is some tough ship. You guys gonna be editing this shit so I can take a break right now.
Now.
When you say top five most impactful films, you mean to me, to the culture, to you, I mean this is so I mean I sound like a cliche now, Scarface the Godfather for me, uh, personally Raging Bull. That's my personal favorite. Uh impactful films feature films to you? Whatever got you going? Good fellas got us going? Am I four? Now it's funny because IM gonna regret this because I forget the one? What was the one? What
was the one? You know what? I gotta give American meat credit American me James Edward James almost directed to one about the Mexican gangs.
Come on, man, you gotta you know. If you haven't seen that, go check it out. Man, you haven't seen American.
That changed us because we had wrote the script minutes and we thought we had it and we would and saw that movie with Tiger Williams or writer. We went back to the drawing board after.
That and blood in, Blood Out. That's right, they on the same thing. First thing you do in the morning, last thing you do at night.
Shit showering shape. The first thing I do in the morning when I'm home is jumping the cold punch. Ooh, jumping that ice water.
Fuck.
Yep, that's better than coffee.
That was the worst part about being an athlete was getting that ice in the cold punch.
Did it work?
Yeah?
Hell yeah, great, It brought that inflammation lowly.
It's just good for you.
You guys came up with that. We're just now getting that science right. Didn't getting the sauna and at night? I like to do the same thing cold plunch.
Son, Okay, yeah, I like that soundtrack to Your Life. Give me three songs. Damn you said three songs.
Goddamn Jimmy Hendrick's machine Gun, twelve minutes anything, Curtis Mayfield, Uh, after seventy one and before seventy five, I'll just say give me your love. Let's just say that in the third song. Damn, I'm gonna be pissed about not remembering this one either. Minnie Rippleton loving you.
Five dinner guests that are alive.
Five dinner guests U.
Plus five talking about anything at the table, cigars, weed, alcohol, good food.
Mark Twain, that's the first. George Carlin, that's the first. Richard Pryor Muhammad Ali is that? Four?
Uh?
And boom Maley?
Who Bob Marley? Mother?
I should have put more conflicting motherfuckers in there.
Though, No, you gotta you've had enough confliction. Just enjoy your dinner.
Being biracials or conflict in itself.
And talk to him. And if people don't understand, you never black enough, you're never white enough, so you just gotta fight. Hence all the scars on my knuckles.
There you go. Barack synthesized it, though, right, he decided that. She's like, wait a minute, hey, I got it, I got it, I got it.
But even him, he's not the first biracial president. He's the first black president.
It's crazy, yeah, right, it wasn't one one?
What was the rule? One? One? Yeah?
Some bulls?
One drop of blood and you're black? Go ahead, sta, could you actually black?
I like laid back. You just to be sitting there like some wrong.
Who would you like to see on all the smoke. But but you have to help us get your answer on this. It's gotta be someone in that.
In my rolodex. Yes, sir, I just work with him. I just work with him. I want to see Arnold the Governator Schwartzenegg. I want to see him.
Just did something with him.
I just did a three part documentary with him. Uh, I produced and put it together. And yeah, he loves cigars, so there's smoking ball. But to see him with you guys, that would be amazing.
Anything you mean before we get out of it, you have that anything else you have coming out currently that we need to stay tuned for, obviously, dear mama, right now, make sure you check that out. Incredible.
Arnold Schwarzenegger is coming out. He say that name.
Said that last name, Arnold Schwarzenegger.
I always have a hard time.
I'm Schwartzenegger, Schwartzenegger.
June seventh.
That drops, Okay, where you know?
Netflix, look at me fucking up already?
There you go, Well man, Alan, we appreciate your time.
How random was that one?
Though? That was a good one. Though I wasn't expecting that. I was expected a different pigment.
See That's what I say. Like mix it up.
We got some some gear for you that store, you can catch that. But we really just want to, you know, give your flowers, your greatness, what you've meant to the culture, the lines and dots you've connected for us, and and and the greatness you've given all of us. Continue success to not only you, but your other half, your brother, Give him, give him our best and man, thank you for your time.
Thank you so much, appreciate it.
Man, Thank you. Man. That's a wrap. Alan Hughes all the smoke. Catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the iHeart platform Black Effects. We'll see y'all next week.