Dating Smart

So welcome to the All's Fair Podcasts. Fasten your seatbelts and let's go. Hi there, it's me Laura Wasser, and this is All's Fair. My name is Johnny Rains. Thanks for listening today. Y'all's Fair podcast is dedicated to all things relationship, from friendships to hook ups, to marriages, divorces and everything in between. But when it comes to marriage, though I do love a good wedding, I remain unconvinced that the idea of till death do us Part is

as viable as it once may have been. Well, that article we just posted on the It's Over Easy Mighty network from Fatherly, written by Jeremy Brown sort of spells it out. Is your marriage just to pack to die together? What do you think about that article? I think, I mean, I do look now that I fall into the category of great divorce or silver divorce. I mean, it is something you start thinking about a little bit more as you get into dying with your the person you're with,

having somebody to grow old with, absolutely, you know. I mean, it's no longer like, oh God, I'm gonna be with this person for the rest of my life. It's more like, oh my God, is this person going to take me into my hospice? You know? So I don't know. I mean, it's definitely something to think about. You know, when we were living until thirty five or forty, it was a lot easier to stay together until death do us part.

Now that we're living so much longer, you have to really examine if you're happy in the relationship, makes sense

to etcetera. And that's what they talk about in the article is kind of ways to keep it fresh, and how important intimacy is, and how easy it is to fall into the sort of just the comfort position without intimacy, right, I take comfort these days, However, when a relationship is toxic if it moves past comfortable into toxic, it can really bring you down, affecting all aspects of your life, whether you realize it or not. Peter Economy writes about this in I Love this Guy's Name. So. Peter Economy

writes about this in inc Magazine. He points out that when a relationship is toxic, it stunts your growth and blocks you from growing in near full potential. But getting out of a toxic relationship is often easier said than done, and so he shares in the article seventeen super inspiring quotes to help you end a toxic relationship. M ready, this is a Steve Jobs one. Your time is limited,

so don't waste it living somebody else's life. This was by Wayne Die at number sixteen on the list relationships based on obligation lack of dignity. I like that one. How about staying in and in a healthy relationship that robs you of peace of mind? Is not being loyal, It is choosing to hurt yourself mentally, emotionally and sometimes physically. Kemmy. These are all like things that you could put on

an Instagram post as inspirational or completely uninspirational. Quotes in any way, thank you, Thank you INC Magazine, Thank you Peter Economy. Um. And then once you're out of a relationship, now what Well, that is what we're going to talk about today. It's up to the individual. But the next chapter is full of possibilities. You guys just need to be prepared, which is what our new video series is

all about. It's called Next Chapter Life after Divorce. It is now available online at next Chapter series dot com. Today's show is all about next Chapter. So, without further ado, I am honored to introduce you all to our first guest. She is a behavioral relationship expert, personal success mentor, and the host of her own podcast, Deal with It. Welcome to All's Fair, Tracy Crossley, Thank you for having me on today. Welcome. So tell us what your advice is

to people who settle in a relationship. Tracy, what do you tell these guys that call up on the podcast or that you work with. Well, I'm probably gonna go against mainstream advice, and that is first of all, people have to figure out what it is that makes them settle in the first place. A lot of times we have pressure from outside sources, society, our friends, so on

and so forth. And they're telling us to get out of something we're settling for, right, and we have that little voice in our head, Oh my god, I can't believe I'm putting up with this. All of that, but that doesn't really solve the issue of why you would choose to be in a relationship and settle in the first place. So I'm all about you've got to look at what you're afraid of in leaving the relationship. What are you afraid is going to happen to you? Afraid

you're gonna be alone? Are you afraid that it's a bad decision, that this is the best you're ever going to have? What is it? Okay? So now you've done that, you realize, Okay, I think I'm really I'm afraid of being alone. This is you know, there's so many good things about him or her. Do you then say to people, no, you're not going to be alone, or hey, be alone might be okay, not the worst thing in the world.

I mean, are you do you generally find yourself and I of course it's a case by case, but do you generally find yourself saying deal with it, you gotta move on, You're just gonna stagn it here forever, or do you say, here's how we can work on this and make it better. I say, here's how we can work on this and make it better because a lot of times when you're settling, there's a part of you that just wants to get out right. You have that um I would call it energy of I need to

get the hell out of here. And it really is about dealing with the other part of yourself that's settling and going, Okay, what is it I'm not doing because I'm probably not taking care of myself and probably not speaking up, I'm not being authentic, I'm not being honest, and so we start to delve into those areas and this is all learned from child. This is all coming from insecure attachment. For most people that settle, because there's a fear again that's bigger than the desire to leave.

So you've got to make it where the desire to leave is bigger than the fear and it's just a small tipping point, it's not a huge tipping point. Do you find most people are settling from the beginning or does the settling happen as you settle into the relationship. A lot of times people have a fantasy going into a relationship. Right on the first date, they already start thinking, Oh, he would look great walking down the aisle with me, or wow, I want to introduce her to my parents.

And they don't even know this person, but they're developing a dream just from what they're getting on that first date, and it just keeps continuing until it crashes and burns at some point with wow, Okay, I am settling here, right. So are these some of the things you talk about

in your thirty day emotional cleanse Yes? I do, I really do get to the bottom of what it is that drives people to have either a relationship they're settling for or something that's toxic, and so of us some of the tips or the steps to get rid of those roadblocks. First of all, you have to look at where you have resistance. Resistance is a physical feeling in

the body of heaviness. It makes you have a sense of inertia, like walking through cement, right, And so we'll avoid things in our lives that feel that way to us. Oh God, that's too hard, I'd rather do this. You got to do the hard stuff, right. So that's number one, which a cleans is By the way, I don't think I ever got to thirty days. It was that hard, not emotional. I never tried that. I'm would even harder.

But but yeah, just even the dietary clean work started just drinking alcohol and it was really it isn't lemon juice, honey and cayenne and vodka. Yeah, it didn't work out. Okay, sorry, I don't know the vodka part. I'm thinking I added that I don't work out that all right, Okay, So yes, okay, So that's one thing. The other thing is about looking at what you focus on. Most of us focus outside

of us. Were always focused on other people. But the truth is, you want to have an internal locus of control. You want to be able to come from the inside to the outside. So you have to start looking at how you personalize people, how you assume things about people. And this can be in your relationship but also around you, because the more you chip away at how you focus on everybody else and not on yourself, you start to realize,

oh my gosh, I gotta get myself in hand. And that's why I'm always take your time with leaving a relationship, because that's the most important thing, absolutely and do you find this happens a lot, particularly with mothers, because you're focusing on the family, the kids. You know, your significant other does that? I mean I hear that a lot in my practice of you know, I can't focus on myself. I have all these things. I don't have a second to focus on me. I hear that a lot with mothers.

I also hear that a lot with men. Um And the thing is with men, they start to feel and this isn't all men. This is men who usually run because they start to feel responsible for the other person, run away, right, got it? So talking about that, let's talk a little bit about dating after a divorce or breakup from a significant relationship. What are the signs that you tell people mean that they may be ready to get back out there and date. Okay, so I think

dating is the greatest laboratory for self growth. Agree. Yah, you represent yourself. It's more for you than anybody else. I guess it really helps with this whole self exploration thing too. Yes, because in the crash test, dummy sitting and cross and reading a piece of swordfish and a glass of sardon. It's all about you. It is all about you. But most people make it about the other person. If I say, oh, how is the date, they'll go, well, he did this or he did that, or she did

this or she did that. That has nothing to do with your experience, Right, what did you do? How did you feel? Would you date? You? Got it? And so how soon is too soon to date? I don't really have a limit on it. Some people can date right away because let's say eve been settling for last twenty years your relationship and you have nothing left, You're gonna be able to move on pretty easily. But let's say somebody is leaving you, then you're going to have to

take some time and take care of yourself. So I never say that there's a day, you know, okay, three days a month. I always feel that it's whatever works for that individual got it. So now we've gotten them back out there, they're dating, they've got their online profile, they're ready to go. Let's talk about some of the pitfalls of dating in that you have to probably deal with the website. Plenty of fish says of millennial daters reported being ghosted or permanently ignored by the person they

were dating. What do you first of all explain to our listeners how that happens, and what you tell people when they say I don't know. I thought I was going fine, and the next thing I knew I didn't hear from them. Again, Well, what is what does ghosting? Is that permanently ignored by the person. It's the same permanently ignored, gone, not coming back for the rest of the interview, Johnny, Okay, So we would never do that time. We love you. Okay. So when they call you and

say I don't know what, how this happened? What do you say again that this is not about you, this is about them. Make it about you. And I really do say that because a lot of times we are choosing from alistic characteristics that we've had for a long time. Right, Oh, they have to be this tall, they have to have this job, they have to look at this way, whatever it happens to be. Oh, I've got to have intense

sexual chemistry with them, otherwise forget it. Well, those are a lot of reasons why this happens in the first place. Because our checklist doesn't mean anything. It's I don't want to say it's stupid, but it is stupid most of the time. And what do you tell somebody what would you tell me if I was like, listen, I've been seeing this guy, I'm not into him, and it would just be so much easier since I don't have to see him all the time. If I, you know, permanently

ignored him online or ghosted him. Do you do you kind of school your people in like dating etiquette. I do, and I make it all about you again because it's a growth opportunity to actually have to stand up and say I'm not really interested in dating you instead of just ghosting somebody. What's bread crumbing? So bread crumbing is a form of torture. It's basically where again, Um, it's

it's a different kind of torture than the cleans the clans. Yeah, an emotional cleanse, by the way, is probably up there with the whole cayenne pepper. Yeah, it's hard to do anyways. Um, when it comes to bread crumbing, it's where you think you're being ghosted and you think things are great too.

In the beginning, you think you're being ghosted, but then this person shows back up and this can go on for years where it's this yo yo relationship where they come and they give you just enough and you're in that fan of see of what you thought it was going to be on the first date, and you're sort of stuck in that mindset, right and every time he or she shows up, it pulls you right back in.

Is this something that the bread crumber is doing purposely or is it just they're just kind of super selfish. They're out there and they're like, oh, that was a hot piece of ask maybe I'll text her again or something. I mean, or is it really a maniacal, machiavellian, sick old thing to do. It's a control thing, and it's

a control thing that is developed from fear. I mean, I have clients like this where I have a client who goes out with a different woman every night, and he came to me because he wants a healthy relationship. And so the reason he does this is he's had bad relationships in the past. He's afraid of somebody, you know, being a meshed with it. So that's why a lot of these people will drop bread crumbs and they'll just

keep it at a distance. But if he gets too close, then fear comes up and then they don't know what to do with themselves. But can you be a person that says I'm really not looking for anything serious. I'm in a period of self explorers and I want to go out with a different person every night because this is what is helping me heal and also helping me evolve. And as long as I'm honest with people about that, is that. Okay? It is, I think in the short term.

But when it becomes a long term pattern, then you're just avoiding. Then there's fear about getting close. And everybody has fear about getting close. So we have to get close. If you want to have a healthy relationship, you do. If you want unhealthy and you like all the drama, which a lot of people do, like all the drama. What if you just want to be alone, but you'd like to have dinner with people and get to know people, but you're not looking for something more serious. Again, better

short term? Well, it's better short term because that's a comfort zone and that's kind of a bubble that we can stay in. And from what I know, I was single for many years in between my first divorce and getting remarried, and I used it as an excuse. I used my kids as an excuse, I used everything as

an excuse. So it was really comfortable to do that because I didn't have to push myself out of the nest, right And every time I pushed myself out of the nest, I had an excuse, Oh, there's only idiots out there, you know. All of that kind of stuff, got it. So, Tracy, tell us a little bit more about how you counsel people to prevent this from becoming a cycle that's unhealthy. Like you said, even you did it. So it's easy to fall into this pattern of I just want to

keep a safe distance. But in terms of really being able to move into a healthier relationship when you're ready, how do you talk to people about taking the steps to do that. So, first of all, I have people slow down because a lot of times we're not in the present moment. We are out in the future already deciding things, Oh, this isn't gonna work, or this is gonna work, based on what I'm thinking is going to happen, rather than what is happening right now. The other thing

is a lot of people don't enjoy dating. They tend to not find it fun. And I actually found it fun when I really got a clue that I was the one who was emotionally unavailable so you gotta check yourself and you gotta ask what am I doing when I go on on a date? How open am I? Am? I just so focused on the other person and reacting to them that this is this is what it becomes, is just a reaction, because that's usually what it is, instead of going, wait a minute, am I actually being real?

And I used to check in with myself on dates and go, what are you saying right now? Are you actually saying something? Are you trying to get a second date? Right question? And I don't know if this is something that And again obviously case by case, how soon is too soon to sleep with somebody? Okay? So a lot of people ask me that question. In fact, I just answered it yesterday, I think, But anyway, I'm sure the answer changes every day. Well, the thing is there is

no right time. Is the time of you emotionally being ready for that. And I believe that the relationship, especially if you're somebody who sleeps with people to try and hook them, or you sleep with people and you leave them, it's somebody where you feel you're building a relationship and that the relationship is in a stable position, it's progressing.

There's consistency, it's growing. That's what you want. So when it's in that position, I think it's great to sleep with somebody if you're you and it for any other reason than you're doing it for the wrong reasons. What if your reason is you just want to hook up, well, then that's a whole different story. Then you're not really

looking for a healthy relationship. Okay, all right? Speaking of healthy relationships, and when you are ready to get back out there, it should come as no surprise that out there these days actually means on your smartphone or your laptop. So if you haven't cracked the code yet on building the best online dating profile, stay tuned. This is All's Fair with Laura Wasser. I know divorce sucks, but it doesn't have to be that way, which is why we've

expanded our content to embrace all types of relationships. As the saying goes, all's fair in love and war, and we plan to cover it all right here every week with you. Today's show is about turning the page on a relationship you've outgrown to reveal a fresh new next chapter and dating again. We've been speaking with behavioral relationship expert Tracy Crossley about getting ready to date and join

our conversation by phone now Live from Chicago. Is someone well known across the media world for her expertise guiding people towards finding love the second time around. You can find her latest article on the It's Over is the Insights blog. She's the dating expert on The Steve Harvey Show and The Kelly Clarkson Show, and she's founder of the Smart Dating Academy. Welcome to All's fair, Bella Gandhi, happy to be here. We're happy to have Did you

share that Midwestern accent? Guys, we're good corn fed people here in the Midwest. Yes, you are so so tell us Bella about the Smart Dating Academy. So I realized for when I was back in college that I had really good matchmaking instincts. I set up my college roommate with the guy that I met at a fraternity party, and all of a sudden I met him and I was like, the room got really quiet. It's like a

scene from a movie. And when I when I sort of came to I looked at him and I said to him, I'm like, oh my god, you're gonna marry my roommate. And he looked at me. He's like, what did you just say? And then I realized how insane that sounded. I was like, you would be What I meant to say is you would be perfect for my roommate. And five years later they got engaged, they got married, they're happily living in the suburbs with three kids. And I did it again and again and just kept setting

people up. My friends called me their dating Yoda. And so when I sold my last business, which was in manufacturing, I thought, what do I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to help people find love. So I started the business in two thousand nine, and what we do now is we help to fix people's pickers. Number one. Typically, if you're going around the relationship, married around once twice, three types, blown up relationships, maybe several divorces.

The common denominator and that is usually US. And so we really help people to figure out their dating patterns, start to choose the right people. For women, we called the high GHQ guys. That's our trademark, High and Good Husband Qualities. And then so we coach them, We do their online photography, we write their profiles, and then they have us as like their personal trainers for their love lives for usually six to twelve months. Wow. Okay, so wait,

let me just go back. So you're, what eighteen nineteen, You're at a frat party with a solo cup of bad Keg beer in your hand, and this came to you and then it happened again and again. So this is really your passion. So then you went into like the manufacturing whatever, and in two thousand nine you shut that down and thought, what is it that I really love doing? What am I really good at? So you kind of started this next career which has been going

for ten years now. Yes. Yeah, we actually sold our business in two thousand six, and manufacturing business Dutch multinationals. So I was lucky enough where I didn't, you know, have to figure out where the next meal was going to come from, and I could really say, what do I want to do with the rest of my life? So my my husband, who's amazing, the best cheer later partner ever for twenty years guys with two kids by

the way, I mean, she knows that she's talking about here. Okay, So and he was is does he work with you with Smart Day Academy or does he do something totally separate. No, he's in venture capital and strategy, so he has his own big jobs. So between the two of us, we somehow partner to keep all the plates up in the air. Got it all right? So now, so this has been going for ten years, and you probably have seen a shift. I mean, I don't know. Ten years we were really

just more starting out with online dating. So you've really been on the front of the wave of all of this. And let me ask you a question. This is when you said we help them with their online dating profile on their pictures. What happens when somebody wants to post a picture that just does not look like that ten years ago. No, because they're taking the pictures. But you know, how much retouching and slimming and smoothing do you allow? Because I do know so many people who say to me,

I don't understand what happened. I picture of this person. I swiped right or left right, Bella, you swipe right and I'm right if you like, and any or she acts into the bar and they're like fifteen years older and thirty pounds heavier. That doesn't seem Is that cat fishing? Is that what that is? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I would go with that, all right. So, so how do you regulate that bella as part of the Smart Dating Academy. If you do, we do so. Number one.

If you're listening to this and you're not sure what to do, your photos should be no more than one year old, yes, one year old, right, And some people go, well, I don't really look any different than I did two or three years ago, just a little bit. So and it's just look posting old photos are overfiltered, super cute snap joey I filtered pictures. It's the first act of self sabotage, right, and ultimately it comes from like our own bad self talk like I don't look good enough.

I've got to present the scrubbed up, gloat up image of me. So no, dress yourself up, shows yourself up, guys, girls, men, women, and get some good photos taken. Grab a friend who has a good camera, I mean today cell phone cameras are amazing, or even better, hire a great photographer who does non cheesy, amazing lifestyle photography. It's one of the things that we do really well. And then have photos

taken of you that are not filtered and not photoshop. Okay, So now you get those up, and I know you've got packages that range from like a VI I P day in Chicago to three, six or twelve month programs when you are what you called remote coaching. Is that like when I like leave the table, go into the bathroom and start texting one of your coaches like, holy sh it, I don't know what to do he said this, or I don't I mean, is that is it that hands on? We're super hands on. We usually what we do,

we're like a teaching programmler. So we teach you what to do in all of these scenarios because this is you know, matchmaking is like give a man to fish, and I believe in teaching people to fish. So we teach you about you know, less or right on each date what happens. And so usually our clients are able to navigate the dates, but then they have a dating scorecard that we've given them to rate their date and really rate themselves and how they showed up for the dates.

So we're super hands on through the process with people. I like the rating yourself. That sounds a little bit like what Tracy was talking about. And I'm assuming you do male and female, yes, same sex relationships too. Yep, we do. I love is love okay? And have you ever had two people that were both your clients date each other? Yes, of course. We'll put me into this

crazy business where my matchmaking instincts. So if I think that two people would be good for each other, I have set people up literally between the state of Texas and Illinois. Like, if I think you're going to spark, if I tell you I've got to guy for you, go out with him in five minutes. Tell us dating plan tip number one. So here's tell us what a dating plan is. Sorry backing up, what's a dating plan?

That's a great question. So, like anything big you want to do in your life, you have to start with the plan. So many of us just start out with dating like, oh, let me just put an app on and see what happens. No, really start out with the plan. Who are you looking for this time around? What worked, what didn't work? And we do analyzes with our clients called the marriage maps. We really help them to figure out what what is going to make you happy and

then manage across what I call three candidate pipelines. There's three major ways to meet people. One is using online dating or technology. The second pipeline is meeting people in real life, and the third is getting set up right. So that's your dating plan. And then we help people to cleverly and strategically push on all three of those levers to start to get good can to day to make your dating life sizzily and exciting. How many dating sites do you recommend that a person join? No more

than two? No more than two. We start people off on one, and then you know, we have a fluid strategy. Have a thirty day strategy on this, not a thirty minute strategy, but a thirty days strategy on a site or an app. See how it goes, and then if you're doing well on it, we might add a second one if you've got the bandwidth to actually do that. But sometimes people will come in and say, oh my god, I'm on eight different sites and app and I can't meet anybody, Like Jesus, you're gonna dating a d h

D like you got. Let's slim this down. And how many people should you message in each day? Do you figure? I mean, what do you generally tell people? Look, I like data and statistics so that long term averages, say that of messages online don't get a response. Ten nine aren't going to get a response, Okay, So now play with those numbers. And that's the long term game. So I tell my clients, Look, if you can message five new people a day right time seven, that's thirty five

by the end of the week. Now let's assume don't respond. You could still be corresponding with three to four people on a weekly basis. And I want you to have a dating funnel, right, especially for women. We'll see one we're like, oh, I like him in our netting instincts kick in and then we just want to shut everything in it and date that one. I'm like, no, start planning the wedding, right, Start planning the wedding. He needs

to earn you, he needs to earn us. Back it up, slow it down, don't put all your eggs in one basket, honey, totally and then totally. I'm a I'm a finance person by education, so I was I'm like, diversify your dating assets, right. You got to think of your dating life as a horse race and you're the prize, right, But you don't want to diversify too much because that's a the a D D problem. And maybe a little slutty, maybe an s t I problem. We we we tell our clients

to prey. Speaking of the slicing, exclusivity gave sex off until you were in an exclusive relationship. And exclusive doesn't mean hey, I'm not dating anybody right now. That doesn't mean you're exclusive. That means he's not dating someone else until the door pops open again. I want you to be my girlfriend. You have the conversation, there's no red flags around this person, and from our metrics over the last ten years, that's anywhere from thirteen to twenty dates

with the same person. Okay, this sounds exhausting. Okay, let's let's give us a few dudes and don't of online dating. What are some of the things that are automatically like going to just shut it down. Well, I think we said, don't post photos that are old and don't look like you, and with your pictures, definitely dress yourself up. And then you've got to have head shots and body shots. Don't

have other people in your photos. Sometimes we think, Okay, I want people to think I have a life, and I want you to see my kids, or I want you to see my friends. Remember, this is like your personal marketing and cyberspace. The photo should be just you doing things you love, looking cute, whatever that is, and then five to six of them at the same time head shots, and you've got to have body shots, guys, at least head to me, no, you can't just keep

cutting yourself off at the neck. There are lids to every single pot out there, I promise you. And it's one of the things people will say most like I'm not happy with my weight or how I look right now. I don't really want to post body shots. I feel self conscious and like, look around. People in happy relationships are not just size zero and they're like, oh, yeah, I guess that's true. So you've got to have great photos and then make sure your profile text is really positive.

We'll talk about that. What does that mean? Like I can imagine reading one like you know, and it just sounds so negative. Hate traffic, hate people who lie, hate cheat people. I'm like, okay, dude, process of ellimination, I get it, but still so be positive and what else? Be positive and give people a little conversation starters. Don't just use a bunch of adjectives. I'm kind, I'm adventurers,

I'm fun, everybody says the same things. If you want to differentiate yourself, think about what I call show versus tell. How do you show that you're kind? You know? Are you the person that bakes banana cupcakes for people whenever they're sick? If you're adventure have you climbed seven of the highest peaks? Like? Think about what makes you that your profile? Right? Okay, I think I'm probably the kind

of test in a like draft process of elimination. Oh my god, Bella, I probably need to call you if I have to get back out there again. For Bella's complete guide to building the best online dating profile, visit it's over easiest community tab, click insights and search for Bella one L B E L A. Rejoining Bella and I now is behavioral relationship expert Tracy Crossley. I want to ask you both what your thoughts are on whether or not people are meant for long term monogamy. I

think it depends on what you believe about yourself. If you believe that you're not, then you're going to do everything in your power to not be monogamous. So it's really up to the individual in what they believe. Okay, how about you Bella. I mean, is that that's the goal with the with the with the dating academy, right to find the person that you're going to be with. Yeah, I think it's kind of ironic. I think human beings are one of the few species on earth that are

meant to pair bond. Right, We're happy it's when we have one committed person, But now our instincts are also to keep propagating with others to kind of continue the species. And we have to struggle with having one person that we love and chairs with the instincts of potentially being attracted to other people. Yes, and so, and is that kind of a nature versus nurture? Like has society told us at a certain age, you find that person, you partner up, you procreate, and now you're done. You stay

with that person and now you're done. And that's where the work comes in. Right. Getting married is the easy part. Keeping it going. It takes work, and it takes work to keep that emotional bond which creates that physical flame. How many of your clients would you say are on second time, whether they're married or have just been in long term relationships versus really getting out there for the first time. Boy, more than two thirds of the Smartating

Academy clients are out there for the second third. I help someone who had had four marriages and she had her fifth, and I said to her, this till death do you part. We've amazing. I know it's bananas. How about you, Tracy? Are your most of your clients second time? Or is at least most of my clients are all over the map? In other words, I have people that are on their second time, but most of them are in between. And a lot of them have been single for years. So it's a real mix of people that

are single and people that are in dysfunctional relationships. How how much to each of you deal with fear? I mean, how much fear is there in the people that you're dealing with and just getting past that? All of my clients, that's all. That's why they're there too, because a lot of them are stuck in these patterns and they can't get out of them, and they're needing somebody else to go. This is what's going on with you, and this is what you need to do. And Bella, do you find

the same thing. Even if maybe they don't know it's fear, they're acting out of an insecurity, but they really it's becoming it's coming from a place of fear. Yeah, most things that we do from a place of fear don't end up serving us well. So yeah, I mean people have so many like diverse fears in the dating world, from fear of will I get a second date? You know, do I know what to talk about? Am I going

to choose correctly this time around? So a hundred percent of our clients, our clients, we get to self selecting cohortive people that hire us, But they're hiring us because they need help, and underneath that help, there's an underlying fear of doing the same thing that they've done before. Got it. So back to this question of monogamy long term till death do us part? I want to open that up to our audience. Keep this conversation going with our social and it's over easy before we go, Bella

and Tracy. You guys know my day job as being a lawyer, Yes, yes, absolutely so. I'm also as part of that, I'm a litigator and as such, during the discovery process of litigation, one of the tools we used to gather information in legal matters are interrogatories. So in all sphere. We twist that up for a bit of fun. But nevertheless, Bella and Tracy, do you both swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing about the truth? Sure?

Absolutely yes? All right? Tracy? First, which relationship in your life has had the most profound impact? I would say that my marriage right now has the most impact at the moment. In the past, my most dysfunctional relationship have the most impact. Bella, how about you? My marriage is definitely the most profoundly good thing that is happened to me. Without the husband I have, I wouldn't have been able to start this business ten years ago. Go husband's all right, Bella?

What's your favorite love song? Okay, don't laugh, endless love? I can listen. How about you? I mean, you've dated yourself? But okay, um, Tracy, that's a good question that I don't really have an answer for. I can default to what it used to be, which was Layla love that song? Are you really dated yourself? She's like, she listens to the classic station. I got it. Tracy, what's the one piece of advice you'd share with your twenties something year old self to relax and slow down and not worry

It's not like there's slim pickens. It's only what you think in your head. Bella, I wish I had known this quote that I read a couple of years ago that said everything you need is right inside of you already. Nice. I like that. Okay, to both of you, starting with you, Bella, which romantic comedy could you watch on repeat? Love? Actually, Love Love? Actually just watched it again over the holidays. How about you, Tracy? I like the holiday You and

Kim Kardashian have that in common. Actually, all right, ladies, Bella, thanks for calling into the All's Fair studio at My Heart today. Please tell people were having where they can find you online and get more info about the Smart Dating Academy. So it's easy, just go to Smart Dating Academy dot com. And we also do a lot on Instagram, which is at Smart Dating Academy dot com. We've got a free infographic on our website right now at Smart Dating Academy called the seven Clues you might be in

a relationship with the Narcissist. So for you amazing listeners, go in and you can download the guy right on our site. And Bella has her own Instagram page two, which is Bella b E l A Gandhi g A N d h. I also at some Dating Academy is another page for her, and you can see TV appearances on YouTube slash Bella Gandhi. Yes, yes, and Tracy, thank you so much for coming in with us in person. Where can people find you and your podcast? Deal with it online and learn more about your thirty day course

to Healthy Relationships. Everything is on my website. The courses on my website. You can find all my social media on my website, and I have other programs available as well there. And her instagram is at Tracy no e t r A c y L Crossley c r O S s l e Y. Website is www dot Tracy Crossley dot com and blog Tracy cross Lead dot com slash blog. Yes, yes, thank you guys both so much for being here. You were fantastic guests. Thank you for having us by Bella. We'll see you soon, I hope, yes,

for sure. Keep me posted. Okay, my ladies, thank you, Thank you so much. As awesome, both so knowledgeable. Yes, it was so great. I mean I think the whole world would agree with everything they had to say, except

for you bringing up how often I need to hook up. Well, I just I just remember that when like I have friends that have been in like long marriages and they split up and they went on like you know, bumble match dot com, and they were just constantly they would take somebody with their dudes, but they take somebody for dinner and then like basically it was I paid for dinner, you blow me that. I mean, I think a lot of it is like getting back out there. I don't

want to say grudge fucking. It's really just that freedom fucking and meeting people. And I think I think that the tide is turned. I feel like maybe this is a whole different, more conscious coupling, politically correct looking for their relationship. I mean, maybe that's the difference between like a Tinder and a bumble I don't know. I don't know enough about this, but clearly neither of them was having it. They're looking for like they're looking for the lockdown.

Yeah yeah, but I I really I love the conversation you and Dr Emily Morris had about this topic. I think it. You know, if you have been in a relationship and you break up or you get divorced, you can imagine that you haven't been having sex a lot, or there must have been problems in the relationship, so getting out there and just doing it seems to be like the first thing once what should do? Well? No, According to Emily, the first thing I want you to

do is to be doing it with yourself. Yes, yes, anyway, So we'll leave you on that note. Start touching yourself immediately. Thank you for listening to the All's Fair podcasts. Whether you're happy and single, ready to date again, or you're living contentedly with the person you've decided to cast your lot with, our relationships provide texture to the fabric of

our lives. Clearly written by Drowning Okay, if you like what you're hearing, click to rate at Apple podcast and write as a quick review so we know what you want to hear next. Thanks for joining us on All's Fair until next week. I'm Laura Wasser and I'm Johnny Rains.