Welcome to questions from the closet. I'm Charlie Bird.
And I'm Ben Schilaty. Each episode we discuss a question that we commonly get asked as LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
We are not trying to answer this question or come to a consensus but simply sharing our perspectives.
Today's question is, "What do I do if I have a crush on my roommate?"
Ben and I are not terribly diverse, and we share many opinions and life experiences. For example, we both had a crush on the same guy at one point.
However, there are some pretty big differences. For example, He liked Charlie, but he didn't like me.
Ben, why do you do this to me?
I think self-deprecating humor is fun.
At my expense always. Alas, it is true. And I felt really awkward about it.
It was fine. Also, it was odd because we don't usually like the same kinds of people.
Never
We have different ...
We have very different types.
So So when all happened, I was like, Oh, that's surprising, but I was okay with it.
I was also surprised. It didn't work out for anyone though.
No one got any love?
Well, we would like to provide a variety of voices and perspectives. So today we're joined by Zach Ibarra.
Hi
We're happy to have you.
Tell us about yourself.
I'm a student at BYU studying interdisciplinary humanities.
What does that mean?
It's like all the different kinds of humanities
Like art, and music, and literature...
And politics, and how those things tied together to create the cultural movements of whatever time you're studying. Fun, it is fun. We sit in semi circles a lot and talk about books. So it's a really good time.
Sounds like a thrill a minute.
I've been out for five years now. Actually, I'm a convert. And I'm Mexican. So I think I've ticked a lot of boxes for your podcast and for this university.
Cool. And how do you pronounce your last name, Zach.
So this is such a point of contention in my family.
Is it really? Did I say it wrong?
No, I don't. So when I was growing up, me and my nuclear family always said I-Berra. And then as soon as I got to BYU--with I'm from Ohio, from a very, very white town--and then as soon as I got to BYU, everyone, all these RM started saying "E-Barra", and I was like, well, that's not how I say my name. And they're like, well, I served in blah, blah, blah, and it would be pronounced, "E-Barra". And I'm like, okay, that might be true. But in Perrysburg, Ohio, that is
not what we said. And now I don't totally know what my last name pronunciation should be.
See I was one of those RM's and I apologize for correcting you on how you pronounce your last name, because my last name actually has an Arabic origin. And I don't even know how to pronounce it in Arabic. And if someone is like "it's not Schilaty. It's..." however, you would say my last name and non anglicised Arabic, then I would probably be annoyed.
Far back in your history. You've had some Arabs in your line?
Yes, my my great grandparents are from Lebanon.
Oh, cool. What?
Yeah, you can see my nose, I have a Lebanese nose.
Well, today we're talking about crushes. What to do when you have a crush. And specifically the question we got was what to do if you have a crush on a roommate. But I think we're probably just going to talk about crushes in general as well. And to prepare for it. I just want everyone to know that we did listen to "Crush" by David Archuleta.
It was a wonderful warm up exercise.
So we are ready to go.
Charlie sang and danced.
I remember the first time I came out with a crush, I was really nervous. So the first person I ever came out to was my cousin Rachel. A couple weeks later, she was visiting again. And I had never told anybody that I had a crush on this guy. And I was like, I have to tell her and I just was like, feeling it. And it was basically like, the entire feeling of coming out over again. I was so nervous to tell her I didn't know what she was gonna do or think or say. And it took me like 30 minutes
to actually get it out. Because she knew this person as well. And after I told her, she was like, "That's it? That is it?" I'm like, "Yes, it's a big deal." And she's like, "Three weeks ago, you told me you're gay. And now you think I'm gonna be shocked when you say you have a crush on a guy? What do you think being gay is?" I was like, okay, you make a pretty good point there.
But it does feel scary to admit you're like not only do I like guys, I actually do like specific ones sometimes.
Exactly.
Yeah,
I remember the first time I one of my friends called me and I was having a tough day. And she asked me how I was doing. I was like, "Oh, things are hard. I have a crush on someone." And she said, "What's her name?" I said, "Well, HIS name is..." It was like the first time ever, like said, I have a crush on this specific boy. And that was kind of that was scary.
Taking it from like, in general to a to a single person is much harder to admit. I'm not sure why.
I think it admits, you know, people...
It makes it real.
People outside and people that are in the LGBT community who have this religious framework are scared that we'll do any number of things. And so the second that you're like, "Oh, I like this boy." They're like, "Are you leaving the church for him?" And it's like, well, what's interesting is he hasn't even followed me back on Instagram. So no...
That's heartbreaking.
Oh, that doesn't happen to me. I was just using examples. Charlie, I had followed you on Instagram a couple of years ago and you did not follow me back.
No!
It's when we didn't actually know each other, but I knew
Am I gonna get put on blast all the time in this episode?
I knew a bunch of your friends and I was like, well, you weren't out. But anyway, I didn't get the follow back. I do now. So. So in preparation for this, I went through some of my roommates, and I had like so, my sophomore year at BYU, I lived at The Village for anyone not familiar with Provo housing, The Village is they call it "the tool shed."
It's boujee.
It's a little boujee. But it's also full of just like guys who like the summer sales bro, Business major. And so I had a crush on one of my roommates, who is that exact thing--he worked out all the time. He was a business major. He was an entrepreneur--of what? I don't really know. His dad was a millionaire.
He probably didn't know either.
No I'm sure he didn't. And like I was trying to prepare and think of if there was anything crazy that came of it. But the answer is no, because crushes are fun and pretty harmless usually. And so I had a crush on Smitty, I thought he was cute. And I have no idea what he's up to today, because that was several years ago, and he was straight, and it just didn't matter. You know, we don't need to catastrophize having a crush on someone crushes are cute, and they're fun. They just kind of happen.
I remember like it was at the time I was coming out. So I still like working through a lot of like, internal feelings. And so liking him wasn't a thing that was okay, like, that was bad. I want to get rid of those feelings. And I was just worried that he would get married, and then leave me behind. And then I wouldn't have this friend anymore. So I set him up with one of my best girlfriends, so they would get married. And then I could like, always have them in my life.
Did it work?
it did not work.
That's like, so precious.
I know. I know.
But when you're in the midst of it, those feelings are so overwhelming. It's like, I can think of nothing else. But this. I mean, depending on there's different levels of having a crush on someone, right? I had a baby crush on Smitty. We were not compatible in any way. He was just my cute roommate I lived with. But then sometimes you have a crush on someone and you're like, where would we get married? Like, what would my life look like with
this person? There's just different levels of crushes that we could acknowledge
Crushes happen naturally, and they're nothing to be ashamed of. So I talked to a lot of people who like feel terrible that they have a crush on the roommate, even more so when they're straight. Sometimes he's like, he won't even like me. And like, I feel like weird and gross, because like, I have a crush on him. But like, it's fine. Like, you're gonna be okay. That's the, that's normal. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Can I talk about this guy that you... that liked both of us? Yes. Okay. So this actually was recent history. This was just a couple years ago. I liked this guy right away. When we met, we were in the same ward. And we became fast friends. And we were like, hanging out at my house on the back porch one night, and we both knew that we were gay, and it was all cool
and whatnot. And then he was just like, asked me really general question like, "You know, what do you do when you have a crush on someone and you can't date them?" And I gave some, like, general response. And but a piece of advice I often give people they're like, "I like so and so." And I'm like, "You're an adult, if you like someone tell them like, as adults, we don't hide our
feelings." So he's like, "You know, what would you do if he had a crush?" Like this hypothetical, I was like, well, I actually have a crush on this guy. So I was like, well, I'll take my own advice. I was like, "Actually, if I could go on a date with someone like-- you're who I would want to go on a date with." Then at that moment, my landlady came out and interrupted us.
Classic.
And like, needed my help inside, so I like, went inside and took a break from the conversation.
Ruminate on that for a minute.
And then I come out and he's helping he's helping one of my friends with her homework. And I'm like, what are we gonna do? And then my landlady was like, "Oh, you play the piano come and play the piano for us." And this guy, then played the piano for us for like, 20 minutes. And then my landlady told us the whole history of her house and spent like an hour and a half. And he's like, "Well, I should probably go home and go to bed now." And I was like, "Let me walk you outside." So
you get to the front porch. He's like, "So you were saying something?"
And you're like, you remember that?
And I was like, "Yeah, I guess I like you." And I didn't say it very, very articulately. And he was like, "Well, I like you, too. I think you're really great." And I was like, "Oh, well, that's good to know." And he's like, "And I really want to kiss you." And I was like, "We can not do that." Like I was a BYU student. Like that's definitely not okay, so we did not kiss and then we hung out a lot for like a week and a half and then he got to know me better and stopped liking me.
That is so tragic. That's such a fun story with a tragic ending.
Enter Charlie.
But he did not know you then, he met you like a year later. Yeah. Um, but I usually I'm pretty good at not liking someone. Like I I rarely have crushes on people. I don't know. I'm just a very intentional person. So like, I'll have these like little baby crushes. Like you said, Zach. But like just fun things but not like actual interest in something like that's pretty rare for me. And, but this like, crush did not go away. I was like, really, really liked him. And this was a fairly
new experience for me. And it was really hard, actually. And I had to tell myself a number of times, like I would tell myself like "Ben, you are so stupid, like, he doesn't like you. Why are you being such an idiot? And why are you liking him?" And then I would tell myself like, "No, it's okay. Like, these are my feelings and it's okay to have these feelings. I don't need to turn them off." And I just had to, like, be mindful
about that. And sometimes I would like text him to hang out and he would be busy or wasn't interested. And that would like really hurt. And so before then, like, before I texted, I'd like, run through my head, like what I would tell my clients, like, well prepare yourself for the reactions like, Okay, well, how will I feel if he won't want to hang out with me? You know, that'll be sad, but I'll be fine. And I'll move on. And so I texted him, and he's like, "I don't wanna hang out with you."
But it wasn't like that. Like, we were legit good friends. And then I would have already worked through those feelings. So it was okay. And I remember one time, I was like, really sad that he didn't like me. And as we were like, driving away from this, like time we had hung out, like realizing that feeling sad about I was like, what does this say about me that he doesn't like me? And I immediately thought, absolutely nothing. Like it says nothing about me.
I'm so impressed. That was your thought, because I don't have that second thought, I go, Well, it means all of these things.
I have too much self-confidence.
Too many years of therapy training.
Thank you.
I think that's healthy, though. Because before I came out, it was almost like you hate yourself so much. You kind of just like want to have a crush on anything that will like you, right? And then if they don't, you're like, wow, I really am nothing. And I think that's a dangerous trap to get into, like, sometimes you're just not compatible with someone and someone doesn't like you back.
And that's fine. It doesn't it's not a reflection of who you are, or what you look like, or how you act, or if you're funny or smart, or whatever. A lot of times, it's just like, not compatible. You know,
Zach, what do you do when you like someone who is gay and might not like you back?
So that's a really interesting caveat that you put there. Because I don't know if you guys have ever talked about on here--falling in love with straight men? But I think that's an experience that a lot of gay people go through I and I should emphasize, I'm sure the same thing happens to women. I'm just not a woman. So I don't know, falling for straight people who are your best friends. I've had that happen several times. It's
really painful. I mean, it's painful in all the same ways of when someone is of your same sexual orientation and doesn't like you back. But you just feel so dumb for having proceeded at all because you're like, I knew they were straight. Why did this? Why did I even think this would happen?
Well, I think I think that's one of the sad things that we like, put this on ourselves, like, I am so dumb for liking someone when it's when most humans have romantic feelings. And, and that's just something that's going to naturally happen. And, and it's and I think it's too bad that we spend too much time beating ourselves up for liking someone when that's just a natural part of being you or being me.
Right.
So, so this person that I like, came out with my first crush right to my cousin--I didn't know if he was straight or gay, because he didn't really date girls. But like he would talk about girls, but then he was really, really similar to me. And we were really good friends. And over, like the course of like two years, we got really, really close. And we had a lot of the same interests. And he actually helped me a lot as I was dealing with depression and the anxiety of coming out. And I
like shared things with him. And we would talk things through. He was helping me and so like, I loved him, and I do love him I like we just became really, really, really close. And I didn't know if he was gay or straight. And I was too scared to ask. So what I started doing instead is just looking for evidence that he was gay. And so I started like, like, hyper analyzing everything he did, and and just like started convincing myself that he was gay. And I
did this for a while. And we're just kind of like waiting for him to come out. And then we'll both graduate from BYU and then we will get married and then it will be perfect. Me projecting a
lot. And also like me, dealing with these feelings of like feeling safe around him and feeling like I could be myself around him and feeling like he wouldn't judge me if that crossed my legs and feeling like, like all of these things that I never thought I'd be able to do around someone because I was worried about being made fun of for being gay. I was I was completely myself around him. And it made me like him more and also think he was gay more. I
ended up moving. I graduated and moved to New York, still didn't say anything. A couple months later, we were together and I had been hiding a lot from him. Like my entire New York Life. I didn't say anything to him about because I was just embarrassed. I don't know, I just I didn't know what to do with him. Because it's still he still hadn't come out yet. You know, and I was just waiting for it. And so I was just like,
distancing myself. So we ended up talking and he was like, "Dude, why are you being so distant?" And I was like "Ehh....." And then here I am. I'm like, it's been three years. I'm just gonna bite the bullet and tell him.
That it's such a long time that you held on to that.
Yeah, it was a long time. And I was like, okay, and it took me forever to tell him. It was very awkward. But I like sputtered out. I was like, "I think you're gay. And I'm in love with you." Essentially was my message.
Is that you said? "I'm in love with you?"
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Cuz I was like, I loved him and we sat there in silence for like, 25 minutes. I was like...
I bet it was actually like two minutes.
No, it was a long time. We're both very dramatic people.
That had to have killed you.
And we were sitting on the edge of a lake, kind of over this cliff thing. And I was like, he's either gonna kiss me, I just put my heart out on the line, or I'm gonna have to jump into the lake. Like, this is one or the other because because like this is like, like you said, three years, is so much history and just so much of me. And he explained to me, he was like,
totally straight. And I was like, "What?" I was like, "how can you be straight?" And he's like, "Why did you think I was gay?" And then so I'm kind of like having all this... oh crap! Like, dashed to pieces. And I was like, boy, have I been wrong for the past three years! And I kind of realized that a lot of this was me projecting, like, either me wanting him to be gay.
And a lot of it was me thinking that he was the only person that would ever accept me, you know, cuz he was the first person, he was the first guy who did. And he was like, "Dude, I've just been, like, really cautious about talking about girls around you, because I didn't want to make you feel left out." I was like, "Oh, my gosh..." He was so nice.
That is so kind. And you're so dumb. But here's the deal. The moral of the story is, I told the truth. Like this was a thing that was like huge in my mind, and weighed on me for like, three years. And I finally was honest, and just like straight up, told him what was happening. And then he was straight up straight. And then honestly, it was the most amazing thing, because because we really were like, wonderful friends and really loved each other. And when this happened,
it was cool. Because I don't know if anyone's actually gonna believe this, but a promise that I'm telling the truth. He went from, like, crush lover to like, my brother. And like, it happened immediately now that I had this piece of information that I was missing, that he was straight It kind of like put ll of like the love I had for h m in the right spot. And I t ink that's why I had been so c azy before, because I didn't h
ve the right spot. I didn't h ve the right category for all o these feelings that he had f r me. And I had for him, plus m coming out. And it was just c nfusing. But as soon as he s id this in, like, I was f nally honest, I knew where to p t them. And I was like, I'm a tually not in love with you. I j st love you a lot. And you j st love me a lot. And we're j st like brothers. We're just a azing, incredible friends. And I
m so grateful for you. And s nce that moment, like I h ven't had any, like weird a traction, or like any crush on h m at all. It's just like, b ing with my brother. I think that's so beautiful, that you had this this like deep love for a person and you were able to put it in the right place.
Yeah, I think that happens a lot. I've only I've actually had very few male friends, I grew up with exclusively female friends. And so when I came to BYU, and I had a couple straight male friends, I confused their friendship, because they were guys who were being nice to me. And that had never happened before. And I was like, they, I'm in love with them. Like they have a crush on me. But it turns out, like men can actually just be friends with one another.
Yeah. And like, that's not stupid. Because I don't know, I... my whole life, I was so worried about having strong like male relationships, because I was so worried about having a crush. And like, I kind of like did it to myself, because I didn't realize that you really can just be really good friends with someone and that's okay. And I think that goes for straight people and also other gay people. Like I have gay friends. That I mean, there's nothing wrong with they're
attractive. They're fun. They're cool. We have fun together.
You're talking about me?
Yes, Ben. You're cool. But like,
What about attractive?
You're attractive and fun.
Thank you.
You're all the things. But I mean, just cuz you're both gay doesn't mean you have to like each other. And like, there's nothing there. And that's fine. And it's just normal.
I remember you telling me once when we were like driving somewhere--you were like Ben, I'm glad we could just be friends and not like each other.
It's It's refreshing. It's nice. Yeah.
And I think that it goes back to the way people reduce sexuality to being exclusively about sex. And it's not and sometimes, you know, sexual, like sex has nothing to do with it. Like, your friendship between you two, you're not attracted to one another. The fact that you're gay bonds you in other ways you have shared experiences, but there's no tension of any kind.
My orientation affects my relationships with everyone, I think, and especially men. And so it just it took me a while to figure out what that looked like for me. And now I know.
This question was submitted a number of times in our email. And some of the situations where this was submitted, people would say like, I have a crush on my roommate who likes me back.
I gasp because I love drama.
That's the tea.
And they wanted to know what to do.
So that's never happened to me, but I could give advice if you want to take it or not. I think you should not date your roommate.
Agreed.
Like if you're living with someone, probably not date them, especially if this is like your first crush or your first time dating.
It just takes your relationship immediately to this extremely high level, right away. You I mean living together, no matter what your religious background is a huge step to take that you take once your relationship has progressed, and you spend a lot of time together, and suddenly you're living with someone you've only gone on two dates with? That's really scary.
Yeah.
I don't want to tell anyone like what to think or what to do. So I don't know what would be right in each situation. But I agree with you guys, I think it would be a very tricky situation to navigate. I actually had someone come into my office to tell me about this not too long ago, that they were really liking their roommate and the roommate was liking them back and, and he was like, "What should I do?" So I didn't tell him what to do. We just kind of talked through the situation.
And he explained what was going on. And, and as we talked, he was like, "I don't think it's a good idea for me to be to be romantically involved with someone that I live with right now." And I said, "Great, I didn't have to tell you what to do just came to that conclusion on your own as we talked about it." And I often tell, especially BYU students, you know, I always say, I often say like, "I don't care what you believe, and I don't care what you do, but they need to be the
same thing." Like, our actions need to be in line with our values. And, you know, for people who are BYU, I say a part of your values right now are living these values of the university that that that you agreed to. And I, I always give that recommendation that you know, if you like, live the values that you've agreed to live.
Yeah. And, and I mean, like, you can change the way you live, or you can change your values, but they should be congruent. Well, when they're congruent that it like, that's where self-actualization and happiness comes into play.
Because if the way we think and believe and act are all the same, like that's integrity, and that's, that's the way to have a healthy, happy, healthy, thriving life.
And I think the only time that you should consider if your living situation isn't something tenable that you can continue to do, if your feelings are creating an unsafe environment for you--just even if it's affecting the way you live, whether your roommate likes you back or not, or whoever it may be, if you're feeling completely overwhelmed, they consume all your thoughts. You're constantly
What are they doing? Where are they going, why aren't they texting me back? Why aren't they hanging out with me? Then that sounds like it's an unhealthy situation. Moving sounds like this big scary thing. But if you're a college student, especially in Provo, moving is actually super easy. I've moved in two days before. People are constantly selling their contracts, buying other
ones. Like and then to get yourself in a new situation and get rid of those factors that were there or have them really changed will just be so refreshing and be a weight off your shoulders.
Yeah, Zach is that I think it's really important. Like just being really mindful about the way that this relationship is affecting you, how you're thinking about it, how you're responding to it, and then responding in an appropriate way. And just like being honest with yourself, and like you said, Charlie, being honest. Like, I don't know if you've noticed, I love talking about my feelings. And I think it's, I think it's really healthy, to be honest about what we're feeling and what's going on.
The theme I keep seeing in all of our stories, is that we talked about it. Ooh, I think if you have a crush, you should talk about it. (A) that kind of defeats the shame that usually comes from a religious background if you're LGBTQ and have a crush. But (B) also it helps you think things through and get advice from other people.
Oh, that's a great point. I don't think we've touched, maybe we have touched on in some ways, but you know, using one of your good friends as a sounding board, getting out of your own head, you're right to get the shame off of you, and feel like, Oh, you know what, I'm not crazy, cuz my friend just told me that these feelings are normal.
And then you can figure out what to do with them and where to put them and how you'd like to proceed with it.
Definitely. So this guy I mentioned who I had a crush on not too long ago, I really liked him in a romantic way. I spent a lot of time studying what charity was like learning how to love him in a Christ-like way. And I feel like romantic love is a really beautiful kind of love. But I don't think it's the highest form of love. And I think if we can look at people with the kind of love that that has us want the best for them. And this is a very different
story. But the last woman I dated, I was sure we were gonna get married, absolutely sure that we were gonna get married. And she went on a mission and came back and married someone else and that was all fine. But that was also like surprisingly painful for me too--not that I like the love I felt for her was different than the love I had for any guy. But I really thought we were gonna get married. I remember watching this fireside, the Elder Bednar gave, and I just had like this
distinct feeling. If you love her, you'll want the best for her. And I realized I wasn't the best thing for her. But this was actually before she got married. Then when she got married, like on the day she got married, I didn't go to the wedding. I don't think I was actually invited. But I was just like, so happy. Like, I was so thrilled for her because I knew that that
was the best thing for her. You know, like crushes are fun, and that can be kind of angsty, but I think what we're all looking for is like real true love and connection. And when you actually love someone, you want the very best thing for them, even though I knew that--like I'd had this experience with this woman like years before and then with with this guy, like I remember telling myself that like I want to love him in a
Christ-like way. Like I want I want to have what's best for him and sometimes it was still hard but then other times, I would have these like really strong moments where I would just like feel deep love for him. And like in a way that wasn't angsty, it was just like, an important person in my life that's going to be in my life for a long time. And it's not, might not look the way that I would want it to, but real profound love.
If you're freaking out, because you don't know what to do with a crush, that's how a lot of people were when they were like 13 or 14 in here, a lot of us are like, 23-24 dealing with this.
I'm 36, I have a crush, what do I do with it?
Pay your mortgage, that's what you do.
But as you like, see, to be honest, and also seek spiritual guidance, and the advice of friends and people who really care about you and want what's best for you, you'll figure out to do with your crush, whether they're straight, or they're gay, or they like you or they don't or they're your roommate, or they're not. It works out. It really does.
Sometimes you get like flashbacks, it'll be even with straight guys that I've fallen for like a year later, when I don't think about them hardly ever. I'll find myself like, oh, remember when this happened? That was so nice. It's like, Where did this come from? I buried those feelings.
Like snap back to reality.
I think it's like, there's like the spot in my heart for like a guy to like, and then when there's someone else, it's like the other person kind of gets shoved out.
Do you have a crush on anyone right now?
Oh, yeah.
I don't think so. Do I?
Yeah, I kind of do. Yeah, I do.
Zach?
Yeah, I do.
Just like I mean, like me, looking forward to my life. I mean, it's weird to be in this space. I'm in where I'm, like, committed to living church teachings. And I'm also like, in my mid to soon to be late 30s. If you like, take a sample size, like all the people who I would like who would like me back who would also be age appropriate and have similar goals to me--there's like, maybe two
people. So I don't know, I think I'll probably just have those little fun crushes is that Zach was talking about and not have like a real crush for a while. Zach, it was such a pleasure to have you on.
Thank you. I'm truly honored that I could be on this podcast.
It's my favorite podcast.
It's actually not mine.
It's not mine either. But if you want to get a five star rating, now is the time.
Thank you for joining us today. Please remember that we do not represent the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or Brigham Young University. We're not trying to be prescriptive or tell anyone what to think or what to do.
You heard three perspectives, and there are many, many more. We encourage you to listen to other voices and hear a wide variety of experiences. If you would like to submit a question or share a comment about today's episode, you can email us at questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com. Until next time...