Welcome to Questions from the Closet. I'm Charlie Byrd.
And I'm Ben Schilaty. Each episode we have been discussing questions we commonly get asked as LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints.
We don't try to answer these questions or come to a consensus but simply share our perspectives. Today's question is, how do you deal with burnout?
Charlie and I are not terribly diverse, and we share many opinions life experiences. For example, we both agree that we need a break.
However. That's funny, sorry. However...
I did come up with it so of course, it's funny.
However there are some pretty big differences. For example, I wanted a break back in December.
And I was like, no way, we're not taking a break.
And it took me like about four and a half additional months to convince Ben that we do in fact, need a break, because things are kind of getting out of hand.
Yeah. Because you were back in December, you were like, you know, most podcasts do different seasons. Maybe we should do different seasons. I was like, no we don't need to do that. Let's just keep doing it.
Yeah. Well, and it's hard. It's so so basically, this episode is to announce that we're taking a short break.
Like a, not like a long break, like a like a vacation.
Yeah, like a sabbatical.
A hiatus.
And it's been hard to like, do that. Because we both love doing this. Like even just coming here to the studio tonight. I was like, Ah, this is so fun. I want to keep doing this. But the thing is...
Yeah, when I came to the studio, like, I'm in my house, like I always am.
I live here. Yeah but the more we think about it, the more like we want to do it. Well, we've kind of just been charging through for like over a year now and releasing every week. And it's been really meaningful, but it's also kind of been stressful.
Yeah. And like, we have someone who hasn't been a guest yet, but who we want to have as a guest. And I keep messaging her like, like, Hey, can you record a podcast tonight in like two hours?
Yeah, we get this. I remember one night I was I was literally editing the podcast on Monday night, going into
30 in the morning, and I had to get up at cheer for cheer at six. And I was like, cool, I'm just gonna stay up all night. And like, like, it was worth it. But I'm like, This is crazy. It helps a lot. We have a sound guy now, Mike, Hey, Mike, he's over there. He can hear us but you can't hear him.
He isn't a mic. He just is a Mike.
And and he helps us edit now. But we just yeah, we're gonna take a break for a little bit, record a bunch of episodes. And when it comes to like, I guess whenever we start, again, who knows how long it'll take, because we're kind of scattered all over the place. Yeah, as soon as we get our ducks in a row, we're gonna have them in a row. And it'll be a lot easier to release every
week. And we can kind of work on a couple other projects that each of us are working on individually, and not be stressed out by something that we love so much.
Yeah, exactly. And like, you know, we're not gonna be gone for very long, just maybe like two months. And then we'll, we'll be back.
And during that time, so so during this time on this episode, since we're here, we might as well have a conversation, right? We kind of just want to talk about some of the episodes like kind of like a year in review some of our favorites. But before we do that Ben has a request for everyone who's listening.
Yes. So I have a couple of friends who say they listen to Questions from the Closet every Tuesday. And it's they look forward to doing it on their walk, or whatever. And so for everyone who was just like, super used to listening to the Questions from the Closet, on Tuesdays, I would just like invite everyone to use whatever time they would take to listen to the podcast, and then talk to an LGBTQ person in your life and get to know them and their
story. So instead of, you know, expecting us to give you the content, come up with some content yourself by talking to the people in your life that you know.
Yeah, I think that's a really cool invitation. Additionally, we're like, our social media still gonna be running. We'll just like highlight past content from other episodes. And our website is still gonna be up it's QuestionsFromTheCloset.com. And there you can find all the transcripts to each of the episodes. So if there's one that you kind of want to look through, or read quotes, like all the all the informations there. I don't, do people know we have a website? Like have we announced it?
Maybe?
Well, we have a website, everyone.
Yeah. Also, I wasn't done with my invitation.
Oh, sorry.
So some people don't really know how to talk to their LGBTQ loved ones. So I wrote up some questions you can ask.
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah. So first of all, ask for someone's consent. So say, Hey, is it okay, if I ask you some questions about xyz?
And don't I would say, don't be like "About that thing...." You know,
Like, "Can I ask you some questions about your experiences being gay?"
Or your orientation?
Yeah, or some questions about your gender identity? Yeah. So here's some questions I wrote up, like helped me understand what it's like to be gay, or what is it like to be trans in the United States or trans at BYU, for example? or What do you wish people understood about being asexual? Or could you describe some of your most interesting, interesting experiences as a bisexual? Or could you tell me about one of your most challenging experiences being gay and how you dealt with it?
Or have you ever wished that you weren't lesbian? Or what hurdles have you overcome and what have you not been able to share that you would like to share? Just those kinds of open ended questions, if you ask follow up questions, you could even ask questions that come from our episode titles.
But you can't ask "Questions from the Closet" because we're going on a hike.
Right? Don't ask us anything.
Actually, no, you should. If you have, like, our emails are gonna be open. Basically, all we're not doing is releasing episodes. We're just pausing on the releases, so we can kind of get some in store, but we're still going to be operating pretty much the same. Just Just not releasing as quickly so...
Yep. Okay, so should we do our year in review?
Let's do it.
It actually has been like 14 months.
Yeah. It's been like, like, when I think about our first episodes back when we were recording on campus at BYU that seems like forever ago...
It was pre pandemic.
Pre pandemic, and we have had so many guests. It's hard to like, it's hard to pick a favorite. Yeah, but you know who my favorite guest is?
Is it me?
It's you, Ben. You're a host. I honestly don't know. We've had so many. And you know what, some of the guests that I was, like, most worried about? Or was like, I don't know how this is gonna go. They like really knocked it out of the park.
Like, who?
Like, Jeff,
I know you were worried about Jeff. I was worried about Jeff. I was like, Jeff is so cool. He's great.
Yeah, well, so Jeff's in a mixed orientation marriage. And I just like personally, I feel like that rhetoric has been pushed a lot. And it was, like, forcefully pushed on me for a long time that like, the only way to do it was to marry a girl. And that and that wasn't my path that was wrong for me. So I felt weird, like, seeing like, feeling like I might be pushing that onto someone else, you know?
Yeah. I was really worried about Tearza that because we hadn't met her.
We had never met her before.
Like we met like I met her like in this room. Yeah. She was someone who was recommended. And then she knocked it out of the park talking about what it's like to be asexual.
Yeah. And that episode, I look at all of the like, figures each week and kind of track how each episode is doing. And that one got so many hits in the first few days. Yeah, it was really good.
Yeah, of course. I have a lot of favorite episodes. But I think my favorite one was the one we did with Richard Bushman about patriarchal blessings.
That was so good. I think it was like episode nine, or maybe 11.
It was one of our early ones.
It was early. And like, if you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend you go back and check that out. First of all, it was cool that we even got Richard Bushman on, especially because we were such a new podcast, because he's a big name. And it was just so it was just like a conversation. Like, it was one of our first ones where we're like, we were all learning simultaneously as we were recording, and it was really cool.
I'm just not sure that's a conversation that I've really had before like talking to a patriarch about what it's like to give a blessing. Yeah. And then like how to interpret a blessing. So I just thought it was really fascinating.
It was cute, because we had to teach him how to plug in his cell phone.
I like message him the things he would need. He's like, well, I've got these earbuds does that, does that work? I was like, Yeah, he like held them up. He was like will these work? Like yes.
Like you plug them into the side of ...
Yeah he's like, he's like, which one? I was like, well, there's, there's a little like.
It's like a little circle.
Yeah, there's like a little headphone thing over maybe like a little icon.
Yeah, that was fun. You know, one of the things that I thought was special about this, or that I do think is special about this project so far is that we haven't really shied away from difficult questions. Some of them like, like, we get a lot of questions to our, to our emails, and we also pull from like things that have are either like in our hearts now or have been in the past. And some of them are tricky, like navigating the family proclamation or dealing with church policy, or like the
patriarchal blessing one. And a lot of them like aren't cut and dried. But they're things that that, at least to me, like, haven't really been covered before, like, like they're scary and complex. And I really appreciate the way we've been able to like I felt very inspired as we've talked about these things, and also like the way the guests have come together, and just even people we don't even know or don't know that well like like Richard Bushman, who just come in and
are the perfect guest. For a really complex question. It's been really amazing to watch.
Yeah, and I think I learned a lot throughout that episode is like, we didn't really answer the question. Like, like, I feel like after listen that episode, I thought I want to read my patriarchal blessing. And I, yeah, I love that when we don't like really answer anything, I think but maybe like, someone might feel inspired to do something.
I feel like a lot of times, we'll get even messages like, Hey, you said this, and I wanted to know exactly what it meant, and what should I do? And I think it's so much more powerful when it's like, I gather information, I utilize resources, and then I introspect and pray and figure out what's best for me. Like, I feel like those types of people who have come to that conclusion of not so much what like, tell me what to do, but just like, who do I want to become? And where should
I be going? Like, that's when I feel like those people are more happier. I just feel like they're happier. Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah. You know, I really liked episode three that we did. Am I gay? First of all, I think the title is so funny. Like how, like, how do you know if you're gay? But I just thought that episode was really fun.
That was like when we hit our stride where I was like, okay, this is what I want the podcast to look like.
Yeah, we figured out what it was gonna be pretty good and hitting a stride on episode three. Well done Ben. Are, you know another one that I really loved was the "How can I stop LGBT+ suicide".
Oh, yeah.
I had a really some really great information on suicide awareness, suicide prevention. I learned a lot from that.
Yeah, Tasha and Taryn just knocked out. And we honestly, we were so lucky to have Taryn because she is such a big deal in Utah. She does this kind of trainings all the time. And the fact that she was willing to come on our rinkydink podcast was really wonderful.
I'm just looking through them all right now, like, if anyone is like, catching up, this could be a good catch up period, too, because honestly, some of the content we've already released is golden. Our episode on pornography was phenomenal with Liam.
Yeah, like a third of the emails. I respond to that people are like, I have this question. I'm like, here's the link.
Just a couple months ago.
Just scroll down.
Yeah. Yeah. And then I think like our biggest hitter episode was Episode 37. It, it had a ton of traction and kind of helped us grow a lot.
Yeah. Is there a place for me in the church?
Yeah. And that one was special, too, because that was like, it was something that like we had been talking about that week, and then it just kind of unfolded in a really cool way. And I also cried, yeah, that was my, my tear jerker moment.
So I wanted to talk about some like embarrassing moments you might have had, was that your embarrassing moment, Charlie crying?
I don't think I'm embarrassed because I'm, I'm passionate, and I really care. So I'm not embarrassed of my emotions. I am embarrassed of how much you tried to drag me towards the beginning and our similarities and differences.
What was it? I...
Don't you remember how, because every similarity there friends, you would like us like self deprecating humor.
I love self deprecating humor.
But it just made me look mean. My mom, like my own mother was like, you're kind of mean to Ben. Like, no, he just does that to me.
Well, you do kind of drag me. I mean, I feel like it fits with our relationship.
Yeah. Hopefully, we're friends. We really are.
Yeah, it's true. I did have an embarrassing moment.
Which one? It will I know, I know.
It was when we recorded. How do we talk about LGBTQ topics at church with Carl whole. And my mic didn't work. And so after it was recorded, we didn't know that. And so you were so good. And you like typed up everything I said, then had me read it. So you could splice it in. And then I listened to the episode. It was so obvious. I was reading and I just like I listen to I just cringe. And I would tell people and they were like, Oh, you did sound a little
off. I didn't notice you were reading I was like, so that episode just embarrasses me like...
Everyone go, listen. He was funny. You're so like, monotone like a robot.
I was so embarrassed.
It's like Siri. That's funny. Yeah. And I even
said, like, just take me out. Like, take me out of the episode and you're like, but Carl responds to things you say. So like, I had to say the things I had said, Yeah. But good on you for doing all the editing.
Thanks. I'm glad I'm glad Mike's here, so I don't have to do it as much anymore. I really liked our episode with Scott Kristofferson on the stages of coming out. That one I think is so helpful for everyone. Yeah. And it's like, based on empirical research, and it was just like, so awesome.
Yeah, I actually in my diversity, class I teach at BYU. I have my students listen to that episode, cuz I think it's a nice introduction to the LGBTQ latter-day saint experience.
Yeah, definitely. Our top episode is 37: Is there a place for me in the church? And then the second one, as I suspected, is when we talked about dating. Everyone wanted to hear about my dating history.
Yeah, I think that's the episode we got the most pushback on.
Yeah, probably. Well, I think it's uncomfortable for a lot of people, because both of us are active temple recommend holding members of the church and both of us have been in same sex relationships.
Yeah. And I think what's hard is like, I tried very hard to talk from an I perspective. And I say, well, you should do this. But like, this is what I do is what I did, because I don't want to tell anyone what to think or what to do. And like I said, something like, almost every LGBTQ person I know, has been in a same sex relationship. Yeah. And I think that was really jarring. And presumptive, presumptive, I don't know is the right word, but, but I think it made some people feel like it
was inevitable. And that was scary. Yeah. And I kind of wish we hadn't done that, or that I hadn't done that.
Well, but I mean, it is. I mean, it's your lived experience, like like the people, you know, have been, and, like, yeah, you don't really know who's in the closet. I mean, we do now because people come out to us all the time. But honestly, I think there's a lot of good information in that that anyone can use just for navigating uncertainty in life.
Definitely.
One of our top episodes is "Why do you stay in the church?", which I actually really liked that episode too.
Me too. And honestly, people ask me all the time, like, just listen to the episode. Actually, that's been one of my favorite things about having the podcast when people ask me this question, like, just listen to the episode.
I love all of them. Now I'm thinking about like, "Should I go on a mission?" with Sarah. And how do I be an ally while supporting church teachings with Ally Isom. Who like, wow.
Okay, so that episode with Sarah I it was one of those episodes that like did not go how I how I had expected.
Because she became out.
Yes, yes. But there was that moment, where you shared that like really beautiful MTC story. I was like, that was the whole point of this episode. Yeah. And like none of us knew beforehand that that was the point of the episode.
Well, I didn't think I'd share that. I never told that to anyone.
And now you told dozens of people, people...
Thousands of people.
And I just really like when the podcast becomes that when it becomes something that we like, never expected it to be. And when these messages come out that we hadn't that we hadn't planned on.
Yeah, yeah. It's been really beautiful. Yeah.
Another thing I've liked is we've like learned how we work together as before, and we to come up with similarities and differences, we would like talk about them and like laugh about it before we would record. And then we would try and recreate that on the podcast and just wouldn't flow very well.
Fall flat.
So we'll start talking about things and we'll be like, shut up, shut up, shut up.
Don't say anything yet. We need to record them. We're one hit wonders.
Yeah. So now like, I don't even plan we just like have a topic where just come and talk.
Yeah. You know, one of our best episodes is 18: "Should I stay single and celibate?" And, you know, I'm so sad because again, that was when we were in that like weird transition period, we didn't really have a place to record. And we had some like audio issues there. So it kind of sounds a little bit like we're in a cave.
Or a bathroom.
But we were not a bathroom.
We were just in a regular living room.
But that episode is so good. Like, I wish everyone would listen to that. Yeah, I really liked that one.
Yeah, once again, sometimes we do get called out on things we got called out, called out on something for that one.
What do we get called out on?
Someone said that I said, like, of course I want to be in a relationship. I'm not a robot or something like that. Oh, yeah. And then someone wrote and said, I'm asexual and aromantic and I'm a human. I'm not a robot. You know, don't assume that every human wants to be in a relationship. I was like, fair.
Yeah, well, cool way to learn. And, and we incorporated that feedback. You know, and even like, when you say things like that, now you give it a caveat and like, include asexual people. So it's been, I feel like I have grown so much by like, interacting with people. And like, even like, like, when we're off air, we get to talk to these guests, and these people from all walks of life and all different identities and
orientations. And it's really, like helped me grow my understanding and capacity to love and be empathetic. And just, like, accept people for who they are, and see the good. And it's fun. Yeah, remember when we recorded the first time with Stacey Harkey? Man, and we're just like, going off laughing and you're like, we really need to record the episode now. We were just laughing for like two hours. And you're like, guys, we've been here forever.
Yes, I do recall that. I was like, let's pretend that this is....
Oh, that's fun. Oh, I love this. I love this podcast.
Yeah. But it's kind of fun to think of the times we record like from the BYU Broadcasting studio to Richard Ostler's house, to from our computers in different states to now...
In our actual closets.
...in our actual closets. And now like, you know, in this little studio at my house,
And like, like the blessings, like, like, I remember I came to you and it was honestly probably that week where I didn't sleep at all because I was editing and I was like, Ben, I can't do this anymore. Like, I have a full school load. And I'm doing the podcast. And I'm like, promoting my book and doing a bunch of other things. And I was also trying to maintain relationships with friends and family and like call my mom occasionally at least once a week. And I was like, I don't know how we're
going to do this. And then out of nowhere, this random dude named Mike is like, Hey, I do sound stuff. And I just heard about your podcast. I felt like I should reach out. And we were like, we should see if this guy's weird first.
Okay, you're saying like, this is a weird thing. This is a totally me thing. Because it's this was back when I was answering your Instagram messages. And so Mike Instagram, he messaged me, he messaged you. And I was like, Oh, thanks so much. Send a message to Ben. But it was me. Yeah. So then he messaged me, I was like, come over and meet us. And then we met him in night school.
Mike is weird, but not but not creeper weird. You're doing great, Mike. We're happy you're here. And, and but like him taking part of that load was so awesome. And then it helped us like focus on getting guests and work on the content and kind of studying for different episodes. And our website too was just like somebody who reached out and was like, Hey, I noticed y'all don't have a website. I'm happy to create one. And now they're doing all
the transcripts. So so you can read and go back and like easily navigate and look through information that that you want and pull our quotes and put them online.
As I think back on like the last 14 months or so I first got the idea to do this back in January of 2019. When my friend Lisa reached out and said that she would love to listen to a podcast where I said like a panel of people on where we discuss questions. And so my original idea, you know, I had these 19 questions from BYU students, I just thought we should just make a library of questions. And I didn't plan on I didn't plan on like releasing
them once a week. It's just like, let's record them all and then just release them so people can just like have them as a reference. And you I do want that. I do want the podcast to exist like that to exist as a reference library. So doing weekly episodes was never like my intent. And you're actually the third person I asked to do this with me.
Third time's the charm.
Yeah. I don't remember how I decided to ask you because you weren't even you were living in New York.
I didn't live here. Yeah. And, and then once I started writing my book, and I was like, I'm gonna have to move to Utah to come here so much anyway. And I was thinking about doing a master's program. And I decided to stop applying to East Coast colleges and just come back here. It kind of just fell into place.
Yeah, but I don't even remember that conversation. But once I like, I was like, Oh, my gosh, Charlie. Yeah, Charlie. I should do this with Charlie.
Yeah. I'm glad you asked me.
Yeah, everyone probably thinks this is your podcast, but it was mostly mine. And now ours.
Well, Mike did messaged me first.
You are the more famous one. Yeah, the reason I share that is like, This podcast is one of the most meaningful things I do. Yeah. And it came to be because some friend of mine from years ago, reached out and said, hey, I've got this idea. Yeah, you know, and things like that have happened to me, you know, a couple of times in my life where like, the most important things I end up doing are things I never would have imagined. They just like come
out of nowhere. And, you know, it's really exciting to like, look forward to the future. And to me, like what hope means, in one sense, is understanding that the coolest things I'm going to do are things that I haven't even thought of yet. Yeah. And like this podcast has, like taught me that that this thing that I really love is something I hadn't hadn't even considered like, I'd never even thought we'd have a mic guy. And now Mike is great. He's a good friend.
Yeah. And he brought us like, a whole setup. That's really nice, very helpful. And then I was also thinking of, like, I love my bo ok, I spent so much time and care and like, love crafting it. And I'm really proud of it. It's probably like my greatest accomplishment. Like, I'm really, it was just amazing. And I'm so happy that
it all worked out. And I love when people read it, but I'm so honored when people messaged me, and they're like, Hey, I listened to this episode of your podcast, because this feels so much like, like, there's not like, a distributor behind this. There's not like, you know, like, it's literally just me and you in a basement. And now Mike.
And our books are like really authentic, but they're curated.
Right. And this is so much more free flowing. And like, there's questions that I've never even thought of that someone's like, what about this? I'm like, oh, what about that, and we get to like, pull in different perspectives, and different people and different, like, it's not just coming from me, it's coming from like, the actual, like a more full representation of this beautiful LGBTQ+ community that like is either like within or around the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints. And it's just been so I don't know, it's so much more robust. And I, it's, I love it. Like I love this project. Yeah.
And like my book, it was mostly done a year before it came out. And that's like, we can have like,
I had something to be excited for every week. Yeah.
And we like had a conversation with McKay. And then that ended up being Episode 37. The next day.
Yeah, yeah, super cool. Very quick turnaround. And I loved like, every time I upload the episode, I'm like, this is the best one we've ever done. And then the next week, I'm like, No, this one. And then looking back through. I'm like, all of these are.
And honestly that's been one of my worries. Like, I feel like we like I'm really proud of all of our episodes, I want people to listen to all of them. I worry if we have like 200, then people won't ever listen to all of them.
Yeah, that being said, let's see, we've, this will be our 61st release, including a couple bonus episodes, which also are really fun. And embarrassing. That's probably my most embarrasing moment.
We also recorded a bonus episode we're not releasing.
If we release that... We did a bonus episode about why me and Ben aren't dating.
And it'd just be us roasting each other.
We were so mean. So we're like, we cannot put this on the internet. So we've done 61 episodes, and we have like a running list of at least, like 50 more questions left that we have. And we like we add more almost every week. So we kind of thought this would be like a year, year and a half, like project but we're gonna keep going as long as it, maybe two years.
We'll see. We'll see when we're when we peter out.
Yeah.
Well, I just want to just thank the listeners.
You sound like you're reading that Ben.
I just want to, I just I sincerely want to thank everyone for listening and sharing the podcast and one of my worries has been that like my story will be the story that gets told. And I'm just really glad that we get to share and elevate other people's stories and I hope that you all will talk to the people in your lives as well. One of the nicest things that happens to me, I'll just be walking across campus and some random student will stop and be like, Hey, are you Ben? And I'll say
yes. And like, I listen to your podcast, and they start crying. And I like, thank them and talk to them. They tell me a little about themselves. And it's just really nice to know that, that this is this is helping people. You know, that's really what I what I want. And it's, you know, and this is like, our gift. I was just talking to my neighbor, actually, who is really cool. And she's like, are you guys like making money off your
podcast? I was like, No, and I'm adamant that we will not make money off of this because this s like, our gift to the world. eah. And if you don't like it, on't unwrap it.
I like it too. It's bee really meaningful. Yeah, we re excited to kick back up and h ve our ducks in a row and be a le to release like, hopefull some better social media co tent and have episodes that are 't draining us during the week so we can be energized and, yea , over the next couple of month , we're going to keep working, recording getting things r ady to roll out soon. So yeah. .
So we'll see you guys in season t
Bye bye.