Welcome to questions from the closet. I'm Charlie Bird.
And I'm Ben Schilaty.
Each episode we discuss a question we commonly get asked as LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
We're not trying to answer this question or come to a consensus, but simply share our perspectives. Today's question is,
Am I gay?
Charlie and I are not terribly diverse and we share many opinions and life experiences. For example,
Do you still wear your retainers?
Yes, I wear my retainers every night. So do I. There we go. You got to keep something straight.
Oh, yeah. However, there are some pretty big differences.
Yeah, for example, Charlie's spends 20 minutes on his hair every day...
No, not every day!
Oh, sorry, many days.
But I have been known to.
Okay.
If I got to look good, I will. I'll put in the time.
And I spend about a minute and 20 seconds on my hair. Well, three minutes and 20 seconds.
How long did you spend this morning?
I don't know less than a song.
It shows. That's all I can say, folks. Anyway, it's really important to us to provide a variety of voices and perspectives on our show. So today, we are joined by Daniel.
Hi.
How's it going?
Good, good.
So Daniel, tell us a little bit about yourself and what's something that you're passionate about?
Uh, something I'm really passionate about. I just do comedy. A lot of people know me for that in the area and, I guess nationally now, which is super weird, but I'm about to hit a million followers on Tik Tok. That's where I have most of my fan base. And I do stand up [comedy] here at BYU. I do "Humor U." It's really fun. So I think comedy just in general, like that's what appeals to me is just like, anything funny. I like ..
So have you done any Tik Tok dance challenges?
I have. But that's not what I got popular...
People are trying to get me to do that. And I'm very hesitant.
Well, you'll be good at it. Right? Because you're actually like a dancer. Llike me, it's like a chubby guy. Like it's not the same effect
It has its appeal.
Well, no one has invited me to do anything with Tik Tok, and I'm not terribly sure what it is.
That's good stuff. So yeah, we're really we're grateful to have you here. And we're excited to talk about this. Am I gay? So I'm gonna, you want to start Ben, are you gay?
Well, the purpose of this question is to talk about, you know, how did we come to this realization that we were gay? So for example, I first started realized realizing that I was attracted to other guys when I was about 11. But I was a scrawny kid, and not very athletic. So I spent a lot of years just saying, "Well, I am scrawny and small. And here's this athletic person who's attractive and I just wish I
looked like them." So I justified or explained away what I was experiencing by just saying, "Oh, this isn't attraction. It's it's jealousy or envy or..."
Or even maybe admiration.
Yes, exactly. Hey Dan, what what was the experience like for you starting to realize that you were attracted to men?
It was an interesting one. It's interesting that you say that because I think I had a similar situation where like, you start to realize it, but you kind of go into a state of denial a little bit, you don't want to like address it. So you're just like, it's fine. It's okay. I'll grow into liking girls eventually. Like, that's what'll
happen eventually. And so it's always funny, because every time I look back, like I really did try to like girls for the longest time, like I tried to make myself and I think the moment that I truly knew that it was just like, it wasn't possible for me was I--was the senior dance is was our last prom is what you guys call it, I guess. And...
What do you call it where you're from in Idaho?
So we call it "dances" in Zimbabwe--it's where I'm from--but they, the weird thing was that I was always like a chubby kid, right? And then I started doing rugby, in the last year, started losing weight. And all of a sudden, girls liked me because I became like a more athletic, but also funny guy. And so they were like, "Oh, this is so attractive."
He has looks AND a personality.
I can say yeah, they were like "Double whammy in Zimbabwe!" That never happens. And so what we were doing what what ended up happening was that one of the, you know, most beautiful girls in the grade, I guess, wanted to go to the dance with me. And she made it very clear to all my friends made me like ask her. It was very straightforward. And I think that's also kind of why I got scared of girls. I was like, they're very blunt. But yeah, that was kind of like the the
lead into it. And then the night of the, I guess the prom came. And, you know, she obviously wanted to get more--like she just wanted to kiss me and I was very scared. Because I was like, obviously I had kissed girls, but it had never been like
An actual kiss...
Meaningful like she was like, "someone was in love with me kiss," right? And so they were like she was obviously trying to get my attention and I just, I couldn't reciprocate. No, I, I was so scared.
You found out you were gay when you didn't kiss the prom queen.
No, I didn't. No it was so scary man. It was I felt like garbage kind of afterwards, but it just happened that way. So...
Where was that feeling coming from?
Um, I think it's just denial, it's denial, right? Like you always want to, you just want to be like, you want to live the right kind of life that you're taught to live, growing up. And so at the end of the day, what you're trying to do is you're trying to live exactly within the lines that you're given, basically. And that's what happened all
throughout life. But then I started to realize that like, you know, I can still live within the gospel context without having to force myself into situations where I wasn't comfortable, basically, you know,
That's interesting, because, you know, you said you, you felt like garbage, after not kissing this girl. What I would tell myself, if a girl was interested in me, which was not very often as a teenager, but after my mission, I would say, I'm not gonna kiss them because I am so righteous. Like, I am not one of those people who just goes out and has a non-committal makeout. Like, I am going to wait till this is a serious, committed relationship.
Like a handshake and good night. And it's also interesting, I think, a lot of people have asked me, like, how did you not know you were gay? Like, how could you possibly not know if you were attracted to men, you just know. And something you said Ben about explaining it away. Was was really big in my experience. So ever since I can remember, like, my earliest memories, I knew I was different from other guys. And I didn't know why or what that meant. I just thought I was
kind of weird. And then, I guess during like, adolescent years, when I was 13 or 14, I had experience where I realized what it was. And I like felt pulled and emotionally and physically drawn to a guy. And it scared me. It scared me so so much. And like the feelings that came with it were, I think normal feelings of attraction of like excitement and kind of thrilling, and curiosity but at the same time, this weight of like, shame and
runaway, runaway runaway. And so I kind of trained my mind to do anything I could, to to run away from those feelings, even though they were like very obvious, like looking back, it was very obvious. I have funny stories about that. But I don't know.
Please, please do.
So. One of the funniest funniest ones to me is, it was Christmas. I was 14 years old. And I got some Hollister Cologne, like my parents gave me a Hollister Cologne, which was like Hollister was THE THING like middle school and freshman year, like if you weren't wearing Hollister, you were nobody.
It was the 2000's.
Oh, yeah. So I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna put this Hollister cologne on my Hollister shirt, and I have a Hollister hoodie. And like, everything's... so I get this perfume. And it has like a model on the box. And his name was Jake. It's the Jake cologne. And he was like this beautiful beachy California guy. And I didn't want to throw the box away, because I was so attracted to this Jake guy. And so I convinced my little sister to fall in love with Jake. And she
put Jake up on her wall. Because for her it was okay. And she was like a sweet little kid. And I remember just feeling so weird about that. And so guilty, but I couldn't let it go because I didn't really have anything. I mean, I grew up on a ranch in Missouri. And I don't know, I just I was so confused. Because what is gay when you're
shoveling cow manure? You know, like, I just this everything was so confusing, but I just knew I didn't want to get rid of this, Jake, because I wanted to smell good and like Hollister, is what I told myself, I don't know.
It's interesting. When I was a kid, you know, you said people ask you, "How could you not know that you were gay?" Like to me that that wasn't an option, right? Being gay wasn't an option. It had to be a phase that was gonna go away. I didn't really confront those feelings in a real way until after my mission because there was that was wasn't an option. I couldn't be gay that just didn't fit. Right. And similar experience in Zimbabwe?
Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, very conservative. Very, you know, yeah. Again, it wasn't an option. Like I remember the first time that like, similarly--like I always knew low key-- you explained it the way you keep trying to tell yourself like, "This is not how I feel. I AM into girls. I know I am. I can feel it." And over time, you eventually just like
start to forget about it. And then for me, the realization came back much later when I guess I was confronted with the situation of the girl liking me, rather than anything else. Because I never had to I never had to look at it that way. Right? Like I never had to be like, Oh...
Well, I think I was always hoping it was a phase or trying to convince myself that was a phase or there's something I could do, to be better to, to get out of that mindset, you know, which, which I what I thought was a mindset.
Well, I went to like, after the mission, actually, I went to a therapist who told me that for the longest time, he was like, "You can get over it." So it was conversion therapy, but it wasn't like severe conversion therapy that people talk about.
Kind of shame-based therapy.
Well yeah, I was just, I just one sticks out of my mind. And I only realized this the other day, but uh, that same therapist, I went to him, and he told me like, "The reason that you're gay is because you know, you're, you're not looking after yourself." He's like, "You're not exercising or eating right." Yeah, that's so true! Yeah, I feel that. And so I believed for the longest time that I was like, it's because I'm eating fast food. Yeah, at least for like, a few months.
Like, I went into that phase. But then I found out...
Did you stop eating fast food?
I tried. I like fast food, honestly. But like, that's the thing is, like--I think was two months after that--I was just talking to my sister and I was just like, it just doesn't feel right. Like going to these therapy sessions or anything like that, like something is off. And I don't think that's the actual answer. And my sister was like, "Yeah, for sure. You'll probably..." And then it was funny, because my sister had to kind of sit me down and be just like, "You're
gay, Daniel." I was like, "Oh, my gosh!" Like, hit me, you know. And I was like, "Oh, my gosh!" This sudden realization, but like, it is something that I had to like, try and like push through consistently where I was just like, it's just a phase. You know, I'll get over it eventually. And then took my sister just like screaming at me basically one night to really just be like, okay, I will just accept it for what it is at this point.
Yeah. What were some of those moments as you guys were confronting your orientation later in life after after your teens that kind of hinted that you were gay?
Yeah. For me, a lot of it was dating. I came back after my mission to BYU and I had like a "glow up" on my mission. I was a very scrawny tiny kid in high school. And then I kind of grew into myself. And I was like, on an athletic team, and I had like, the cool swag and the gear. And I was pulling, like some of the most beautiful popular girls on campus and going on dates and, and like, all my friends, were convinced
that I was a player. And were, like, in love with the girls that I was going on dates with. And I was like, "I really liked what she wore. And she was fun." You know, and just hearing my friends talk about their dating experiences versus what was happening with me. It was very, very, very different. And...
So Charlie, the answer to the question is, how did you know you're gay? It was,"I went out with the hottest woman on campus."
I was just so popular. likeable, that I just came to the realization.
Yeah, it worked for me, and it helped me figure it out.
I think for me as well, like, it was like the representations in media, not necessarily and that's that is kind of problematic, because a lot of people like to argue that like, "Oh, well, like watching, it will make you gay." But that's not the case. Right? Like you just know, deep down, but I think it was just like seeing people that were gay on TV act
out exactly what I felt like. I remember watching a video, I can't remember where it was, it was I think it was like on Facebook of this guy like voguing to Lady Gaga and I was like that is cool. Like, this is awesome. I wish I could do that. But I felt like kind of like weird about it. Because I was like, that would be so fun. Just to go and like dance like that. That's just something that it would--it was just it just
looked fun. Right? Like, and that was where I I had to kind of like confront it more often. It's just like, when I saw it on TV.
Yeah. What was it like for you in your process of learning who you were when your aunt came out?
Ooh, I think that was also kind of a again, you try to put it away. Cuz I did see how hard it was at first for my dad to kind of accept it. And that scared me because I was like, "Oh, I can't tell my parents." I remember one night asking my mom--during that time, I was like, "What would you do if one of us like, was gay?" And my mom, I remember her being like, "I would love you guys no matter what." And then I was like, Okay, good. I shut up, didn't say anything after that...basically it...
Did you fool her?
I don't think Well, I think my mom always had like, hoped that I was straight because I was the eldest son. You know, I'm carrying on the legacy. I'm the oldest Spencer boy. And I but I think they always knew that I was different for sure. Because like, all the other dudes in my family were like rugby players. And I was like, I wanted to do theater and
dance! They forced me to do rugby still, but like, and I enjoyed it, but it was just like, I think they knew deep down that it was like--I think my dad told me like he kind of was expecting it at a certain point. Just because I--when ever he would come back from business trips...
Lady Gaga.
Like, he'd always come home from like business trips when I was super young and I'd like be wearing like dresses and my sister's closets and be like, ahh! Well, they will be playing dress up with me. But like, my dad was like, "Sharon, what is going on?" And she was like, "He's playing dress up, it's fine." So it's funny.
Well, I think it's interesting. We've talked a little bit about like, physical attraction. But for me, I can looking back in retrospect, I can see, like, more proof when I was younger, that that I was gay, or that there was something different about me, in regards to my relationships with other people, specifically with girls. It was very easy for me growing up to have strong relationships with girls, and not so much with guys. I felt kind of like a
disconnect. And I think some of that is because I was scared because deep down, I knew I was attracted to guys, and I didn't want to like, open a jar, like a can that I couldn't close. But but I've just always been so good at connecting with women. And I think it's because I I am incapable of objectifying them like there is no sexual tension ever. And so it because that, that barrier and that all of that's gone, I can connect with them. And in many ways, I feel like women can can kind of sense
that about me. And it. it's kind of like a symbiotic relationship. I've actually never really shared this only to a couple people, but I had an experience when I was young, I think I was probably around seven or eight. And an experience that kind of like looking back shows, there's more to romantic attraction than than physical, right? There's compatibility, there's emotional attraction, and there's like the
way you connect with people. I remember I had a dream when I was a child, it was a very vivid dream. And I um, I in my dream, I spent the day with this boy. And we like, we're in a city next to the ocean. And we just spent the whole day like hanging out together. And then I went to his his family's home, and had dinner with his whole family. And they accepted me. And I just remember, it was like the best
dinner ever in this dream. And then we went to the pier, and we were holding hands, and watching the sunset on the pier. And then I woke up, and I was young, I was so young, and I started crying because I was so sad that that dream was over. Because I was so happy. And I wanted that to be my life. And I just think that's so interesting, because this is before I had any outside
influence from anywhere. My young self was was seeking like what I wanted most what, what made me so happy in my subconscious was, was an emotional relationship with another male.
What's kept you from sharing that?
I don't know. I think part of it is because it's such a sacred memory. And I think for a lot of years, it scared me because, again, like I've I've never forgotten that dream. But for so much time that that that dream was scary, because it meant that, that my subconscious, like something beyond what I can control was gay. And and that was used to be scary to me.
Yeah, I would say like this idea that something in my subconscious was, was oriented towards men was super scary. And it was a question--am I gay? I think it was a question I answered for many, many, many years, as I dated women, and then kissed one of them and realized that that was not something that I enjoyed, but that she did, and that we were having a different experience.
And then just how much I just so didn't want to be gay in everything I would do to try to not be gay, like like praying and fasting and going to the temple and reading my scriptures. And all the things I tried to do that just wouldn't change it. And then when I was 30, and fell in love with a guy, I was like, "Oh, this is what it's supposed to feel like." Like this this is what this is what I've been trying to get with these women for all these
years. Like we would--when I would date women, we would have these, this really strong emotional connection and a really strong friendship. And then as I got to, "Let's hold hands and cuddle," it just felt so unnatural and uncomfortable for me. But then when I briefly dated this guy, and "dating" isn't even the right word, because we never went on "a date." And we even lived in different states. We would talk every day, it was just so wonderful and just made me just
feel so good and happy. And I thought, "Oh, this is this is what I've been trying to find for for all those years."
I feel the exact same. I'm just kind of like--to be honest with you this--right after high school was the first experience where I had something similar to that. And that's happened like three times maybe--twice here at BYU and then like once before high school--where you just kind of know and then you have like a weird--it's not even necessarily just an attraction. It's just like, you know, like, you know, something about them. You're like, I feel like I know this person, like, I feel like I
know. And then you start talking to them. And you see how many like similar experiences you have. And you're like, "Oh, my goodness, like this is, is this what it's like supposed to feel like?" And you go deeper and deeper. And similarly, I think it's just, it's a little bit weird when you have to start addressing those questions, because in your mind, you're like, "I've never even had to
even think about it." And when I'm 26, like, I've never had to deal with that sort of stuff, because I've never been attracted to the girls that I've gone on dates with, right?Like, and as a 26 year old, you've watched your friends--from 13 up to where they're 26--all learn and understand that stuff and you have to learn it so quick. And address it in a way that gets you through that, like little bit of turmoil where you have to, like, try to learn to
understand yourself as well. So that's, I think, also like kind of an intimidating thing to go through. It's like, I have to learn so much in such a short period of time, just to try and get through questioning this sort of stuff. You know,
There's actually a term for that's called the "Gay Adolescence." Because you don't get to develop those relationship skills and talk openly about crushes. Like, like, like kids and adolescents do. And so when you come out and try to have those experiences older, it's like, you're 26 but you're acting like you're for 14.
Trial by fire, like learning how to set boundaries. And yeah, everything. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah.
Daniel, would you talk to us about your experience on a reality TV dating show?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's good stuff.
It's funny. Um, so I've told this story multiple times. But basically, what ended up happening was that because I run the main page and a big main page here in Provo, I kind of just tossed it out there on the page of like, "Should I try out for this dating show?" Haha, joke joke joke, not expecting it. I mean, like, obviously, I expected it to be like a positive response. But I wasn't expecting it to be like, exponentially so. I like, to lots of people being like, "Please do it. I will watch the
show for you." And I'll say, "Okay." And so I sent in an application just being like, okay, here's the application. And then basically, what ended up happening was Remington, the guy who runs it, messaged me and was like, "Hey, come in for the first interview." And at that point, I was like, I'm gonna come out in the next year, because I knew at that point, I was like, I'm gonna come out soon. I don't know when, but I'm
gonna come out. And and that I, you know, at that point, I had accepted who I was, I wasn't dating girls anymore. I was just like, I'm just gonna live my life and not care about all this mess. Right? So at that point, I was in denial. So I missed the first appointment. And then I was talking to my sister, and she was just like, "Look, it's gonna be a fun experience. Obviously, people like you. Just do it. It'll be fun. If worse comes to worse, you stay on for a couple weeks, and then she
doesn't want you. Right?" And I was like, "Yeah, that's true. Okay. Yeah."
That always happens.
She won't like me, I'm a terrible person.
"The worse" could have actually been that she picked you.
Scary. So Well, that was the thing. So I go in for the second interview, and I was like, Okay, this is dope. Because I also went into the, with the mentality of like, even if I do come out, at least I'll have the positive. If I show myself in a positive light, that maybe when I do come out, it'll be like a more positive thing, you know? And so I was like, yeah, we'll just do this. Go in for the second interview, get
in, and we start filming. And it goes from like, one week, and I'm like, "Okay, they're gonna keep me for another week, because I'm the funny fat guy." You know, like, oh, I'm the social media guy. And they have multiple of us. So I was like, "They have enough. They don't need me," right? And then second week came, then the third week came and the fourth week.
Ooh, I'm still in this.
Well, that was the thing...
You're like, why am I so lovable?
And I honestly look back at it. I was like, I think I was just like, the gay best friend to be, the girl just because, yeah. All throughout that experience. She was like, coming to me for advice and just being like, "What do you think?" Like, I don't know. Like, she wasn't coming to me because she was like--I think at a certain point, she wanted to kind of maybe try and develop a relationship. But at that point, I was like, "I'm done with th show. I don't want to fil
anymore. I'm busy. Like, this i spring/summer, you know?" You o, you want to tell her because you're like.
So she didn't know the whole time?
No, she didn't...Yeah, I've talked to her. She said she didn't know at all. And so I was like, okay, and that was the thing at the karaoke date, which is like the signature date where everyone thought that we were like...
I remember that.
Falling in love.
Yeah.
At that point, I was like, "Hey, I really want to leave the show. Like I'm just getting super hectically busy. And I don't want to tell the producers can you just eliminate me this week?" She was like, "Yeah, I can do that." Good friend, convo, you know, just like get it out of the way. And then we had some drama go down where this guy betrayed that....
On a reality show?
Can you even imagine?
Well betrayed as well, like, it was, it was super weird. But, uh, so they had to keep me on for an extra week. And I'd remember just dreading it. Like, I have to talk, talk again with all these people. Not that I hated them or didn't like it, it just was, it became like, tiring, because at that same point, like, I was like, I'm just over this--like this is so it's hard to fake as well.
Right? Like, and that was the thing, like watching it back too--is like, you could see parts of me that were gay throughout. Like all the people that are like, my non-member friends have watched it back. And they're like, "Dog, it's like, pretty obvious." But, uh, yeah, and that and on that last day, when I got eliminated, I told her, I was like, "This is who I think you should pick." And I remember going home that night and for the first time, I was like, "I need to come out
like NOW." Like, that was the first time I'd ever been like, I'm done with lying. I'm done doing all this sort of stuff. And I messaged my aunt who's a lesbian. And I was like, "Hey, I'm thinking of coming out." And she doesn't know at this point. And so we just got on the phone for a very long time. And she was like, "Look, I'm not going to give--like, I'm not going to give you advice that I don't think I should give you. I think you should wait a little bit. You can if you want to. But just
remember, you're at BYU. It's not exactly like, you can wait a little bit, like a little while, right?" And I was like, "That's true." I can wait until I come out. That'll be fine. But then, as the show started, I guess, airing--over time, I was just like, this is kind of like a little bit of a crazy situation. But people started showing a lot more support for me. I became a fan favorite, like immediately.
Obviously.
Well, I was just again, like nice, likeable, like, it was because I wasn't acting like a regular guy. I wasn't being like uncomfortable, a weird, I wasn't like pushing boundaries or trying to flirt or touch knees or kiss. Like it was such a weird, like, there was some weird moments with other guys who were straight because they're trying so hard. And with me, I wasn't trying. And so everyone was like, "He's so kind and gentle and look at him. He's really gives her the space to
live." And that was another thing was that everyone was like, "His jackets are amazing. Wow." But uh, yeah. And so as it started airing, I was like, I should come out. I should tell people right now, like now's a good time, because everyone likes me. So, you know, at least I'm like at the peak, right? And if something goes wrong, it doesn't have to go as wrong as it could at another time. And so I came out. Super positive
experience. I actually messaged a lot of the people from the show that I was friends with at the time, told them they were super supportive. Bea, the girl, was like, "Oh my gosh, I love you. Like, that's why I wanted to keep you around. You were just so positive." So it was really fun. It was like a really good experience. And it kind of, I think it really just shows you like how accepting people are, or more accepting people are becoming--at least in this
community. It's like it's really cool to see.
This night when--so I actually, we're friends. I don't--I guess we're just friends because we're both BYU gays.
Well, that's how we connected. Like, we're both gay!
Like, like, you're like me! But before you came out, and I like--hope you don't take this the wrong way--but I was like, yeah, I figured you were gay. Because I can sense you know. And I'd watched a couple of episodes. I went to a showing at one of your friend's apartments over there and then Bea came over. Did she know?
At that point?
At that point? Because this is this is before you came out.
Yeah, that was before I came out.
Yeah. I'm just curious.
I don't know. To be honest with you, she told me that her "gaydar" is completely off. Because some people have it too. Like, straight people, or at least they've been around gay people so much. And apparently she has a gay cousin. So you know, she was like, "I was totally oblivious to it." But I think that's also because Bea just like, she wanted to give me the benefit of the doubt and saying, well....
He is on a dating show.
Yeah, like maybe he's just different. So but again, I had no attraction to her. And I think she sensed that the whole time. So she was like, "He's just not attracted." So I was like...
An interesting experience.
Yeah, one things I just want to add is, you know, when I was in when I was on my mission, my brother wrote songs for each of the siblings for Christmas one year, and the song he wrote for me was called "Not Gay." Because it's about all the things that I did that would make you think that I was gay, but I wasn't. And, you know, as we talk about like "gaydar," gaydar often just like noticing
stereotypes. Yeah. And there are a lot of people who who are gay who don't fit into those stereotypes and, and don't exhibit feminine characteristics or don't like Barbies. And so, yeah, I think gaydar is just being really good at stereotypes.
Yeah.
I am thinking about this this question, "Am I gay?" And that's a, something that I really wrestled with a lot of the time. And I think, looking back, like I knew the whole time. I think the wrestle was that I, it the thought of that filled me with shame, and made me feel broken and not lovable
and not good enough. And I think that's why i forcefully got in my head so much, and would constantly question and double check if I was gay or not, because I really didn't want to be and I was trying so hard not to be. I used to take these little quizzes on like a BuzzFeed quiz. Are you gay? And I would take the quiz and it asked just like ridiculous things, like do you--basically
stereotypes, right? And then, most of the time, the last question is, like, "Are you attracted to the same sex?" And I'd be like, "No," and then submit. And then it would say, "You're not gay." Yes!
And then you're like, yeah.
And I just did that. It's, like, kind of hurt for teenage me who was trying so hard to convince myself that I wasn't--when I wish it was something that I could have just, you know, like, owned and been okay with and, and started earlier to use who I am at full capacity to create relationships and reach out to people and, and be a source of light.
And looking back on my life, because it was a long process, I don't think I got rid of the idea that being gay was a phase until I was like 29, or 30. And that was those years, like, they weren't wasted years. They were good years. And I had a lot of good experiences, dating women. Hopefully, they had good experiences too. And like looking back, I'm not sure what--it feels like, it'd be nice if I just like accepted
that fact a lot earlier. But at the same time, my life experience has brought me to where I am. And I'm grateful to be where I am. And, and this can be like answering the question. Am I gay? For a lot for some people could be a really long process, and that's okay.
Yeah, that's a good insight. Any final thoughts about "Are you gay?"
So Daniel, are you gay?
I am gay. I'm gay. Uh, I think I just, I think it's just cool. It's kind of cool to see that people are a little being a little more open with the idea nowadays, at least that like, you know, people are helping other people who are going through being gay in our community, right? Like, there's way more support for it then when I first came here to BYU, like it was it was like, scary again, you want to shove it down? You I mean...
I waited till after I graduated to come out.
Well, that's the thing like now,
I've graduated twice before I came out.
He's always gotta one up.
Well, I think about that, like, this week. I'm having a party where I just invited a bunch of kids who I know who have come out now. And I think that's kind of a really cool experience, just because...
Is this your way of inviting me?
Yeah, this is my way of inviting you guys. But it is just like a cool experience to kind of have, have, at least,
Community.
Yeah, relatability I remember when we first talked, it was just yeah, I mean, it was cool to have someone that like had gone through similar experiences. And so I think that's all it's about is just simply trying to build a community to the point where we can be like, comfortable with it. And we can all like, share those experiences, because they are funny, and they are like weird. It is a weird thing to go through. Right? Like, all of that stuff is weird. And yes, is
some of it traumatic? Yes. And, is some of it like a little like a little negative? Of course. But at the end of the day, like you can find the humor in that. And that's why I like comedy, because--I did a set at Humor U the other day about the gay agenda, not a winning, right? Like, not actually existing, right? Because it's like, it's just a concept that we've created to try and explain that like gay people are just very entertaining, right? Like,
that's essentially it. And I think that's the whole point is just like, we need to remove, as you said before stereotypes and weird ideas that we have preconceived notions about what it is and just try to build around love and light and positive experiences. Now,
We're glad you took the time to try to hopefully this--us being here and having this conversation will lead to more community. So thank you.
We appreciate you, Daniel. Thank you for joining us today. Please remember that we do not represent the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or Brigham Young University. We are not trying to be prescriptive or tell anyone what to think or
Today, you heard three perspectives and there are many, what to do. many more. We encourage you to listen to other voices and hear a wide variety of experiences. If you would like to submit a question or share a comment about today's episode, you can email us at questionsfromthecloset@gmail.com. Until next time...