Wisconsin Coaching Legend Bo Ryan Talks Coaching Path, System, Final Four Runs

little note for you. Daily Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio available on Fox Sports Radio, the I Heart Radio app, Fox sport Trader dot com. You're streaming, we can download that like a podcast, just like you can download this one. We talk all sports, not just hoops there, but do talk some hoops, baseball, ton of football, Getting ready for the NFL Draft. That's three to sixt Eastern, twelve to three Pacific on your iHeart radio Apple, Fox

sports Trader dot com or download the podcast. All right, let's get to it. Here's my conversation with Bo Ryan. Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter Noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Let's start in Chester, Pennsylvania. Okay, Um, I've only heard stories about your dad, Butch, I don't. But there are stories from other people, and occasionally you've sprinkled them in

in in other interviews. Um, what's your what's your first memory? Your dad coached kids like growing up, So what's your first memory of of basketball? First memory of basketball? Um? Well, I know your dad had you surrounded, uh by a lot of things basketball wives growing up. So my dad would take me to this hole in the wall, Jim. It had a root that had a heater up in the corner. I can remember this because I was like four years old, um, and there was no place to

stand while my dad and all these other guys were playing. Um, So I would go up by the heater and sit on a plank and watch these guys play, and then as soon as the game is over, a quick pop down, grab a basketball and start shooting. That's my first memories of being in a so called jim. It was a poor excuse for jim, but that that was that's my first exposure. What was it called, Well, it was in Upland, Pennsylvania,

which is a burrow right outside of Chester. UM. And I can't tell you what it was called, because I don't think it had a name. Uh. They just said let's go to the gym. And it was right next to a Baptist church that we were members of. UM. So I can I can see it to this day exactly what it looked like. UM. But that's my first time being in a gym that I can remember. And uh,

and shooting a basketball that way. Now. Otherwise we had like Carton's mail, two telephone poles in the alley where we would throw not regular basketballs, and we would throw any round ball we could. But that was that wasn't a gym that was outside sure Umber. Okay, you you played quarterback and you were a point guard, A very good point guard at high school? Were you were you better at quarterback? No? I was not a very good quarterback. M I. Uh. I didn't throw interceptions, believe it or not.

I didn't turn the ball over. Uh. Kind of like that's how we tried to coach UM. I was trying to inject a little Humber there, Doug. But I don't I got it. I got it. I believe it. But football. But football looked different, like look, football look different even when I was in high school. I can only imagine there was a lot of three yards in the cloud of dust. I just didn't know, if you exactly right. I love it. I love it atin We had a button hook. UM. My top receiver was a guy named

Donald Wesley. His son ended up playing at Baylor and in the NBA. Uh, David Westley m So that was my that was my tight end. UH. My center was Teddy Catrell, who was a defensive coordinator for four or five different NFL teams. And we won one game in three years in football because everybody just got ready for basketball. That's the way Chester was. Football was not um a sport that got any attention because everybody just waited until basketball. See it. Why did you go to Wilkes University will

Wilkes College? Uh? I went there because Ron Rainey, my high school coach, took the job. UM. And what happened was I had been talking to Temple and Rectors and a few other places, and uh it sure made it easy when the person you were playing for for three years is going to take you for another four. Um.

But there were no scholarships that way. What I did was stilled out the application, and having been captain the three sports and president of my class, I ended up getting a leadership grant which paid for most of it. But I had to do fifteen hours a week of work study. So I had some different jobs. I had some interesting jobs. One year I worked in the post office. One year I worked in the dish room UH. One year I worked UH doing the LNG picking up sheets

and pillar cases and then distributed in the clean ones. UH. And then the final year I had I was in charge of in the rules. So worked up pretty well. It's it's amazing. It leads me to what I want to get to. When you first started coaching high school and then started coaching UH in college, So how how good were you at Wilkes Well, I got to play

as a freshman. That was the other advantage back then. UM. The other guys that went to say Temple, for example, you couldn't play as a freshman, So I being a type A, UM, it's not playing as a freshman just didn't seem right or you know, not had a full schedule. Freshman did play, but nothing like the varsity UM, and so What happened was I got to shoot the ball

more again in in college because they needed scores. They had not had a very good record UM prior to coming prior to uh US going there, So I did score more. So I ended up in double figures two or three or four years. Having been a point guard at Chester, I was a distributor UH and we had five of us and kind of average between nine and

sixteen points at Chester. UH. But it works. My teammate and I a young man by name of Ruben Daniels, my roommate the first year UH, he and I were two of the top scores because they definitely needed help. You mentioned I got to shoot more. You mentioned you you played for the same coach in college that you did in high school. That okay, So you have you have your dad as your formative years. Then you have this coach who coaches you for you know, all these

kind of growth years. What what were there? Like, Let's start with your dad. What was his how did how did he coach? What was his style? Going way back when that's a good question because my answer will tell you a lot. He had He coached football and he probably won ring out of every ten games. He coached, He had three plays. His team's blocked and tackled better than everybody else for thirty years. Um fundamentally sound as you can get for a youth football program. Um. In basketball,

same thing. He kept it pretty soap, but they screamed, rebounded, and took care of the ball better than anybody else. Um. So he was very successful coaching and biddy league basketball, you football, Uh, and in baseball you talk about a percentage guy. He played the percentages that that's where he coached Billy White, Hughes Johnson, m American and Agian baseball. And he only used Billy basically as a finch runner

in late innings. But he was he was his sound fundamentally is And I didn't think much of a thing. I just thought that's the way everybody is supposed to coach. H. Yeah, it's interesting, Yeah, you know it's it's interesting though because

um just a little little snapshot. My dad obviously is uh was is uh kind of you know, brought like same way, like all of our practices when I was a kid, like you know, we'd start out with you know, we didn't do ball handling as much as everything was passing, you know, like monkey in the middle, drill bolling the ring drill two men, you know, two men jump stopped passing all the way down, like all these kind of basic fundamentals and fundamentals with spacing, and I just thought

that's how all practices were kind of interesting. Fast forward to our recently canceled uh bronco league. My son's just turned to Levins ten, just turned eleven. Basically, I know, I know he loved it. I want to tell me tell you how um so he he. I've been like the assistant coach because I travel around during March so much for baseball for a couple of years. Finally this year is like, you know, like next year, he's probably gonna be club the whole year. I don't coach him.

In club, we let a professional, but in this one I want to coach him. So I wasn't even there for the first game, but I had run practices and all the parents like, man, you draft a really good team. Gosh, we're gielding really well. First game, like we made no errors, and so my wife is like, well, you'd be really proud of of how you drafted. I said, I did think I drafted a good team, but all we did in practice was groundballs and throws the first and back

in and up and that's basically it. You know, we worked because the expression I use is the fundamentals are the fundamentals. Like for any sport, the basics are the basics. And until you can do the basics, it doesn't matter what plays you run or you know what creative things you can find if in basketball you can't dribble, pass, not just shoot, but also catch, right like, catching is underrated, catching the basketball with balance on that catching a start,

it isn't it isn't. No, no, you're not free flowing conversation just whatever. Um. But but it's it's amazing that, uh that as much as we'd like to think our sports have advanced, like things that your dad taught still work. They work in every sport at every level. And we we get we get law. Sometimes we get lost as guys who love our sport, and we get way ahead

of ourselves. Jump stop, pump fake you you mean for university, that's that's when a lot of people referred to us at Wisconsin and and look at and by the way team and and and by the way, who who plays like that? In addition, to Wisconsin now going over right, Like Jay has done a lot of things, but Jay's teams are incredibly fundamentally they jump, stop in the lane and make plays and make the extra pass and pass crisply.

That the best bounced pass team I've ever seen, UM, because all they do in practices throw bounced passes like it's really a beauty to what. Okay? So then what was your your high school coach that became your college coach? What was his name again, Ron Rainy? Okay? So what was Ron Rainey's state in the fifty uh also played baseball and was the captain and played in the College World Series in the late fifties and tenth state. UM. And then he took the job at Chester And that

was my sophomore year. We had four junior highs that fed into one high school, UM, so we we all came in as sophomores. And it was Rainey's first year. And after three games, our sophomore team killed people. We were like by thirty each game and the varsity was struggling. And he figured his first year what he was gonna do was may as well get the guys that I'm going to develop for down the road. So he brought three of us up from the sophomore team and then

we started every game the rest of the way. But he was he was fundamentally sound as a coach. You guys play fast one him. I went behind my back, uh and made a pass on a on a fast break at the next time out. He just looked me in the eye and said, it better get there. You can do it, but a better get there. Right. Yeah, I got your coach. Yeah, No, Coach Sutton was. Coach Sutton was much the same way. Um, okay, so you get you get done playing. Did you have a plan?

Did you know what you wanted to do? Did you want to be like your debt? Like, what was the what was the take me back? You graduate from Wilkes College in nineteen sixty nine, What was all right? I mean, in a crazy time in society, you're getting done with college? What what were you thinking? What I did? Here's what I did. I actually, um did an interview. I looked at the FBI, UM met with really just to see, you know, just to get an idea if it would

be something, um that I'd be interested in. But I had a degree in business economics marketing. Uh, and Arco Atlantic Richfield had hired me, offered me a contract, So I signed with Arco. Was ready to start working for them, and you know, become a CEO eventually or become envisional manager whatever, you know, trying to move up in the business world, that way, corporate world. And uh, then I got drafted. Um, and I always kid. I got drafted by the team in green and people go, oh, the Celtics.

The Army. Um. So I went in the Army and it's amazing talking to you because I know about your family, your dad. So I'm an the Army and I'm not playing basketball. I'm not playing team sports for the first time in my life. But I'm on a team, the Army team, but not the basketball team. So I get stationed at Fort Lordon, Georgia, and I get in some pickup games and the guy comes up to me and says, WHOA where did you play? What it? Uh? What? Why don't we know about you? I slo, I'm a draftee. Well,

we're gonna have you on the team. Uh you want to play? We go and play a different basis and you travel And I said, are you kidding me? Yeah, I'd love to well, my commanding officer because of the MLS that I had working with prisoners in the stockade UM, they said they couldn't afford to have me go td Y temporary duty and play basketball off for the post team. So I was crushed, you know, I thought it be you know, something I really enjoyed, and so I couldn't play.

So there I am in the Service. I didn't know if they're I was going to get sent to now sixty seventy one, that was a pretty hot spot. UM in the country are in the world as we know. So I didn't get sent and I stayed at Fort Gordon for my two years. While I was in the Service. Do the things about my dad working with kids and developing young people, Well, I decided to teaching coach. So with a business degree, I didn't have the student teaching and a few other UM courses that you needed to

be certified in Pennsylvania. So I took a year did that after getting out the Service, got my teaching certification and started coaching and teaching in junior high school. What you sevent two? So you so you showed what what was it? What was the name of the junior high Brooke hadn Junior High right outside of Chester. It's right next to Chester. It's Uh, one side of the street is chest to the other side of the street is Brokaven. So say you're Brooke Haven Junior High School. And then

from there, didn't didn't you go? Didn't you go to to Wisconsin for a like a what was it a girl's job? What was the what was the job that you went to next? Like Dominican College? It was an n A I a school in Racine, Uh, Dominican College. And what happened was I went there with Bill Cofield. Bill Cofield had been coaching at Prairie View and had done a pretty good job at Prairie View, but he

won to come up north. He was from Illinois, UM, so he actually interviewed he actually interviewed for the u w ND job, and uh, he didn't get it. But when he was in the airport to fly back to Texas, he met the gentleman who was the president of Dominican College, and then the guy says, hey, we're looking for a coach. Our guy just left. So he ended up he ended

up taking the job. And then he had also coached at Lincoln University which is in Lower Merian and Lower Merian was our one of our big rivals when I was a Chestain. And so what happens is he he ends up calling a couple of guys that had played for him, and these couple of guys say, hey, coach coke Field, but we know you remember that guy Ryan to play Blah blah blah. One thing led to another.

He calls me up my interview over the phone. Take the job and go out to the scene Wisconsin and coach there for one year, and then the school folded financially. Uh and Cofield took the assistance job at Virginia. Cofield was the first black assistant coach hired in the A SEC basketball. You know when we caught a good break, Terry Hone Uh to this day, Um, it was one of the nicest gentleman I've ever met. Oh. And he had amazing staffs when he was at Virginia, just really

remarkable guys that went on too great things. I wanted to ask you, So you get to Dominican College and I think you did something that my dad told me. I remember his his first college job, he coached high school basketball all over Death Valley High school in Colorado Springs, Um, you know, and like all all these towns, uh, Dylan Vale, Ohio, which is close to where John havel Check grew up. He was there for a year anyway. His his first

college job was at Quinnipiac under a man named Burt. Come. Yeah, okay, so he coaches don A. Burke on. So Burt says, listen, I need an assistant, but you gotta coach soccer, and you got to coach golf. Right. And my dad, though you know Jewish from Hewlett, New York, he was actually from the Bronx. They moved out to HeLa when he's thirteen. Like, he never played golf a day in his life and never played soccer day in his life. So I was like, how are you gonna He's like, not only did I

have to learn how to coach? I bought books. I went to the library and I got a couple of books and how to coach soccer, how to coach golf, but also how to line the fields. I had to line the fields for for for the games. Now, I know your dad was a baseball coach, didn't you coach baseball Dominican as well? I did, And I don't know if you're set me up. But I don't want I don't want you to think I'm patting myself on the back here. But yes, I did coached one year in

college baseball and got Coach of the Year. Um. We actually missed by a game to go to the Phoenix for the n A i A National Championships. Um. But I had played baseball, played shortstop, leadoff hitter. But again, all we practiced were the fundamentals and basketball practice. I would grab a peanut butter and jelly fane which and then the baseball guys would commit at night and we would go through situations. Um. You know how important to cut off man is, how important uh it is to

you know with the personal second nobody out. Are we bunning or we're not bunning? Who's who can bunk? Who can who's you know what? All these different situations. The same thing that I did coach in basketball was at the end of every practice this do x number of possessions of up to one minute down to you know,

go through the whole scenarios. Um. So we ended up having a great year, fun bunch of guys, and uh I was doing it while I was collecting unemployment because the school said they would not fund the coaching position or that the only people that were going to get paid were the people who were teaching classes to end the semester. So I did it while collecting an unemployment check. Uh.

And we had fun. And we that that group of young men UM paid for their own gas as we went, you know, from different parts of Illinois and Wisconsin and Iowa wherever we played h and they ended up having the best year they ever had. Really had some fun. But yes I did and had the line in the field.

It was catches catch kid, so to speak. You know, it's it's interesting we're in this era now where um and and we get into a little later if you want, we don't have to, you know, about players and compensation and and coaches and their level of compensation. And when I try to tell people in my profession in the media, is I understand that people in the media, many of them are are by their own accounts and by many pills accounts, underpaid, and that there there is a great

disparity between some of these coaches. But gentlemen like yourself that by the end of your career, you're well compensated, Like it's like people forgotten the first ten years of your professional life when you made no money at all and line the field like right, like it's it's like a business, like everybody only looks at well, this guy in the business, he's killing it, Like yeah, okay, but what about the ten businesses that failed in the first

five years where he was mortgaging everything of this new business before it actually took off, Like they're not all You just wake up become a college basketball coach and you're making a million dollars a year, Like that's not the way it works. Just like basketball players, you kind of gotta earn your way up. And here you are,

you know, coaching junior high school basketball. For being in the army for two years, getting your master's degree, and then you're coaching in a college that becomes a defunct college. You're coaching a basketball but also coaching baseball, lightning the field, and then you got to find a new job while collecting on employment. Okay, so so you go back to what Sun valuation. Myself lucky because it's where I met my wife, so in in in in in Racine, in Recene. Yeah,

she's a South Chicago girl. But she was graduating from UH Dominican and Uh, I was able to we were able to meet and did it at got married the next year. How did you meet her? Um? She worked in the athletic department. There was only one secretary. Uh And I mean it's kind of kind of common knowledge out there. She she was engaged and then he decided that you got You got her to flip a commitment. Was your first time ever getting somebody to flip their commitment?

That's what you did. It was basically she was committed but had not signed a letter of intent right she was. It was oral commitment, soft commit and you got a flipic commitment. That's basically the story of people have questioned, you know, until you got Decker and Kaminski and all those guys like does bo really recruit? Like look, Bow got hurt a flip a commitment way back in the seven Well that and I beat her at free throws, and she said, anybody that can beat me at free throws, that,

you know, he's got to be pretty good. Excellent. She was a pretty good free throw shooter. But there's always somebody better, right, no question, and no, there's yes, she had no chance against the which is kid from from from Chester p A, no no chance at all your competitive gene. Um. Okay, so you go to Sun Valley High School in Pennsylvania, got to take a take a high school job. Did you at that point? Did summer? I kept getting unemployment because um, the high school position

didn't start paying until September one. UM, So that whole summer, what I did was I started a summer league, uh and got a lot of the local guys because it was in the same school district is Chest you know, the same conference now as Chester and uh one of the other schools on the south side of Philly. When I was playing at Chester, we had schools from the north side, Shelton, am Abington, Lower Maryon h Lawrence Town, Marple,

New Town, schools like that. Um. But once I got the Sun Valley in that leg was Chichester, Chester from Sun Valley, UM Inner Berth. These are schools that most people out there obviously aren't familiar with. But what I did was because I was from the area, I had some current tacts that we actually put together a pretty

good summer So that was fun. Plus uh, it kind of gave me a chance to you know, you weren't allowed to coach, but at least gave me a chance to see these kids playing, kind of like we do when we go to Vegas or Chicago or Affility for the au stuff. Um. So yeah, so I went to some vallet for two years. So here here's the big here's my big question. What kind of coach were you at Sun Valley? Like now you've experienced different levels an I a junior high school, your dad playing yourself, your

high school coach. What kind of coach are you? I mean, I know the fundamental that I believe this. I know you're not gonna believe this, but we pressed thirty two minutes. I believe it. You pressed in your platfel didn't you? We pressed it some val at some valley and the plat yes, sure. And the pressure was an annoyance. It wasn't. We didn't have like thirty minutes a hell like lan Um.

But we were in Luss. I had all these guys who were all between like five ten and six one, and I could shuffle guys in and out and people wouldn't even know there were different guys with the court. It was. But uh, finally, um, they brought in and we played in the state tournament. It's not like back then everybody got a chance to play. You had to You had to even win your conference or have some kind of wild card um selection to get in. So

we ended up going in state tournament. Uh. This was very enjoyable, you know, it made believers out of a lot of people. And then that's when Coachfield was offered the Wisconsin shop. Right, so Bill cole Fields, if people are falling now, Bill Calefield, the same guy because you preview A and M, same guy who went to Dominican became the first African American assistant history of the a C at Virginia. Then in UH nineteen seventies six, was

offered the job at Wisconsin, placing John Palace. Um, okay, so he calls you and after the American head coach in the Big ten. Wow, So so did he did you call him? Did he called you? Do you remember how you got the job? He called me? We had stayed until he said whenever he got his break. Um, he felt very confident that coaching McCarry holland with that team of Avaroni and Wally Walker and Stokes and um, whoever else they had that was pretty good team. Uh

in Virginia played in the n c A tournament. So Mike Schuler was the other assistant. Mike Schuler was offered I believed Rice job and Coachfield was offered the Wisconsin job. Um, obviously at you know then it was the terment was smaller early on. Um, it expanded kind of late late during you know, it didn't expand until the eighties. But

Wisconsin hadn't been the n A terman since nineteen forty seven. Um, it was a so and it's amazing you tell people that now they're like, no way, Like yeah, I mean, I mean, STU got them there once. That was the first time. It was in ninety four. So forty seven and ninety four never been to the tournament, right, And you reached them every yes, I mean listen, but every year you were there, you went to its crazy every

year you're there, I mean for it's a program. So what were the what do you remember about the challenges of Wisconsin then? Why was it such a challenging job in the Big ten to get to the tournament? Talked about when I was an assistant, Yes, okay, well you mentioned one the fact that they worked very many teams that were selected. Um, the field was not sixty four. Uh. The other thing was the Big Tenth was really good. UH. And not that the Big Ten isn't good now, of

course it is. But when you think about all the guys from the Big Ten that played between seventies six and mid eighties. When I was in Wisconsin as an assistant, UM, there was a lot of town. There was a lot of town, a lot of good teams, and we just we just couldn't break through. UM. For the first time in my life with basketball, UH was part of the losing team. And I say a team because you know, it's not just coaching, it's not just players, it's not

it's just UH. I just couldn't get it to mesh uh. And so therefore we will let go. And I was asked to keep the players who were there, that Brad Seller, Scott Roth, Corey Blackwells of the world. We needed to keep them there for the next coach. So I agreed to do that. UM. And then meanwhile, jud Heathcote had offered me a job, UH, and several other coaches in the Midwest had offered assistant coaching jobs. And then I just said, I'm going to stay here, uh if the

new guy wants me find if not. So that was Steve Older came in. Um, we're recruiting a young man by the name of Ricky Olsen. He was from Madison. Turned out to be pretty good Big ten players. Um, and we're sitting in the living room and Coach Older gives his talk and then uh, he asked Ricky if he had any questions rick and Coach Older says the Ricky, Uh, yeah, you got any questions? And Rickey goes, are you keeping

Coach Ryan? So we hadn't even't talk. Really, we hadn't done because I had taken him right from the airport to Ricky Olsen's house. So Coach Oulder just said, well, of course I am. He says that I'm coming to Wisconsin. So anyhow, that's how that one worked out. And he had already told Mark Tetty was coming. And for people who are forgetting right, this is right, this is yeah. And Marquette obviously in the seventies won a national championship.

And you mentioned how good the Big Ten was. People forget seventy six was the great you know, the great Indiana team as well. So team, right, So I mean like this is okay. Um, what what's fascinating me is okay? So now, Kfield, how did Cofield's teams play well? Um? In all fairness, he never really had a system. He would change sometimes he would change in the middle of the year. Um. And one of the things that I know people say about me, because they say it to

my face, is that your your teams never change. You have a system. Well, you know, if the system is take care of the ball, get good shots, play good defense. But then you're gonna win a lot of games. So if that's a system, I like that system. Uh. But yeah, it was what I learned. He gave me the biggest break in my life. You got me into college coaching. Uh. And the one thing to take away I took away that I knew could help me is to get a tweak.

Tweak what you have each year, you've got a little different teams, you do some different things, but developed players by having a consistent system, right, and people will get better. Um. And boy, when we got the plat Mill and I got to be a head coach, it really worked. That's what That's why I got a chance to do it as a head coach. And uh, and I've never changed after that. That's exactly the that That's exactly the age I wanted to get to. Okay, So how did the

how did the Platfield job come about? Well, the gentleman that was there had had some good teams, but the last six seasons they had lost twenty or more games every year. So the position opened. You know, positions open because somebody the seal is not doing the job, or it's open because somebody was doing the job and left to go somewhere, or somebody retires. So um. George Crisp, whose son is now the head football coach at the University of Wisconsin, Paul Crest, his dad was the one

that recruited me down to platfell Um. I had spent two years with coach Older, and I felt I needed to I needed to use the paint rushers. I didn't need to carry the paint kids anymore. Uh, just that itch that. Okay, I gotta sick my teeth into something here. Um, and I went in there with a lot of freshmen. Really weren't a whole lot of returning players that we're going to help us. But run in there and started doing some things, conditioning, running hills, ah, the weight training.

The you know, having been in Division one, that's when weight training in the seventies was starting to be big because if you remember Robi and Phillips down at Kentucky and then like Purdue, you had a couple of guys I'm drawing a blank on their names now, but you remember those guys from Purdue. They got in the weight

room a little bit in the seventies. Well, so we you know, we got the lifting weights a little more, uh, and I put a system in and that was a lot of Jack Ramsey stuff because he had coached in the in the St area at a Catholic school and then was at St. Joe's and then coach in the n b A, and then Jack McKinney lived across the street from him for a couple of years when I was like six seven eight years old. So pressure, pressure defense. So I got a chance to put that in early.

And then again it was more a nuisance. But what happened was in we went I mean, we were not in scholarship at Platteville the whole time, but we were paying dues to the n A I A and n C A Division three. So coach Chris, George Chris, the football coach in the a D, came to me and said, h do you mind if we only go Division three from here on out? Because n A I a double there tripled their dues. And I said sure. I said

that I don't coach for the trophy. I mean I'm coaching to develop these guys and you know, skill wise and things to get ready for later in life. And you know that's that mattered to meet with the Vision worry Um. So that first year that we went solely to Vision three, we won the national championship by pressure. We average nineties some points a game. Uh. Robbie Jeter

was the captain of that team. They're just the guy, a skinny guy, about great, about a hundred and fifty pounds I think when he came to the plat bell Um. But that that group ended up winning our first national championship and it was worth pressure. And our last two national championship teams was more done with not very much pressure. And then the one in between and when we were thirty one and oh and beat Steve Alfred's team for

the championship. Um, that was a combination. We pressured some, but we called it basically show and go like show pressure. But once the first baskets in get back because believe it or not, sometimes guys and they take them ball out of bounds. They getting lazy, they jump out, they think they've got bold, they're used to throwing it in right away. And then you get to steal, you get an easy basket, and a lot of good things happen. Um. But that's that's how we uh, that's how it went

in at Platteville. But George Chris was the guy who taught me into taking the ten thousand dollar pay cut to be a head coach. What were you making was what were you making Wisconsin want to make a Platville. I was making like thirty five thousand that Wisconsin and

took the job for twenty five thousand. That Platfell and Kelly and I we uh, after our first few years we realized, uh, eventually when we got there are five to having five children, we were one thousand dollars short on our income tax filing to receive free lunches for our kids at school. And I think she had tears in her rise, like not because we didn't get it, but We didn't realize the cut off line that we were living on with five kids, but who cared? We

were okay um um the swing? How did you develop the offense? Well, when I was an assistant, I got a chance we could we could live scout in the seventies. Of course that stopped and once everybody got filmed on everybody else, and you build games on TV and in the exchange film so you could live scalt. So I can remember seeing uh, jud Heathcote, Probabu Night, Uh, Johnny or Luhnson? Uh? Who else? Uh? Trying to think Ludolson

lives at Iowa, Rudolson. Anyhow, I could see these teams and I'm looking at the offenses, looking at defenses right in the scouting report up boom boom boom um developed a sheet that I ended up when I was running basketball camps and for the coaches in Wisconsin and all that, trying to hey, if you're going to do the scouting report, first th how far on the walls from the annualary? How much room do you have on the sideline whereas the scoreboard? Can you make a full court pass with

two seconds to go? Are their obstructions are their banners hanging down, uh, and what kind of basketball are they using? And that was that was thirty years ago, orty years ago, um, because I'd always try to make sure I had at least one basketball of every kind of ball that the teams in the league were using. And people thought I was crazy. Um, there was a little method to the madness. So anyhow, that was that was kind of the beginning

of the idea of the pressure. And there are times that we used pressure, uh in from two thousand two to two thousand fifteen, where we used pressure towards the end of the game, or we just didn't have I never felt we had the type of team that we could pressure for forty minutes. But but again, but so the swing has some flex properties to it, right, but it's it's okay, yeah, Well, the thing about the scouting,

that's where I saw these different actions. So what I did when we got the platfell, I started putting the actions together up screen the U c L A cut Michigan used a little bit too, Johnny or did back screens, you know, the Tom Davis teams with the back screens. UH flex cuts as it was called. Then flex cuts to to a coach Davis was more to the baseline. Our back screens are flex cut was more off of

the free throw line extended. So we had up screens, we had back screens, and we always had pressure releases because my area on offenses, there's one ball, there's four guys away from the ball. So those four guys are two tandems of two. Well that's what the tandement. But yeah, you got you got a teammate who you can play

off of. And just like the old guys at the Y m c A. That would beat us because they knew how to cut and read, pick and roll, picking pop and then the old guys would run the court at the Y and we'd say, how the heck did those guys beat us? Well, what they did was they were willing to work with a teammate and get them open. It wasn't all one or one stuff. Um you know the trew who's who's the biggest and baddest. So I

call them actions. So we also had fade screens. Fade screens were starting to be something that people were using where we had them right in the swing. And then finally, the last screen is a ball screen because obviously in college you got shot clock, and you need to make

a play often um picking poper picking role action. So with those actions in mind, like my dad's football teams run these three plays better right, block, better, read better and in basketball same thing, screen better, don't set in illegal screens, and you can get people open. So that's what the swing was. And then I gave it the name because I got up into the second floor where there was a window that looked down in the gym,

and I had our guys. I had one of my assistants, had them run through the offense dummy run without any defense, and as I watched it, I said, just looks like a swing going back and forth. So that's why I call it the swing. I didn't have the swing in my mind until I saw these guys running it from

up the ball. And then did you immediately start You mentioned about having a having a system, and then you know, one of the things that again I think gets lost on your success is now only did you guys develop people within the system, right, like, look, you know what it's gonna take to play. You're gonna have to do these things. This is how we play. But also you

recruited to the system. Was Are you able to do that at a platfill where you don't offer scholarships or do you just you try and go out and get the best kids in Wisconsin that people missed on or whatever and getting like, how do you when did you start maybe recruiting to the system. Well that's a great question, but it's really easily answered at because most of them were engineers. It was an engineering school, So I'm not saying all of them were obviously, but um, it was.

It was guys. When it came to recruiting any kid who was a good basketball player who wanted to be an engineer, we always got it. Um once we started, you know, once we kicked into gear. Uh, but we're in the southwest corner of Wisconsin. Everybody told me I was crazy taking the job there, Um that you know, Claire has this, Uh, Stevens Point has this. Uh, Whitewater has this. And people gave me all these reasons not to take the job. And the morn they gave me reasons,

the more I wanted to take the job. And I'm glad I did. And it was with the swing, it's an equal opportunity offense. Yet the better players are going to get the shots. I mean, you know, you prove you can score, you prove you can play. Um, you know we'll we'll get you looks. So it became you know, it eliminates clicks, It eliminates you know, you just a comment that was made by another coach after I had left plat Bill was coach you would you would sub

and it never seemed like the guys changed. And then the next year you would lose four or five six seniors and your team looked exactly the same. It was like they accused me of having clothes. Yes, um, but it was just because it was the way we played. Sure, Sure, and and you can make the same you can make the same accusation. Obviously there were some groups that were different Wisconsin, and you can make the same accuation. Accusation.

Wisconsin was like when you bringing in you bring in another tall dude, they can step out and shoot you like, wait, what what where do they where do they all? Where do they all? They all have h you know, clean cut haircut, and they all look, you know, like Jimmy Chip would, and they can all shoot like Jimmy Chit would, And then they beat the crap at you on the defensive end um and do so with their bodies, not

with their hands. Okay, so, uh did you was there any point where you thought, you know what I just I mean like, look, you had a couple of defeated teams, you won all these national championships. You're you're dominating. You can have become synonymous with Division three basketball. You are the guy was ever thought of, I'll just stay here and be the king of Division three basketball, um and and not go back to Division one. Uh not really.

I'll tell you what happened with you w M, because well, Drake could talk to me, Northern, I was some other teams and a matter of fact, there was some schools that talked to me that later on when they saw me in the final four or something. The a D. They should YEA though, we're sorry, we missed, we missed not offering you today. Yes, you know you took. You got the guy that you wanted. That's what you gotta do. And what you w M made a decision is they

they wanted me, and it's nice to be wanted. Um. So the chancellor in the a D and the chance that really it was Nancy Zimper who ended up being uh the president at Cincinnati, uh, when Huggy was there. But anyhow, she she kind of made it like, we we need something here in Milwaukee. And I looked at the city and I'm thinking, I've been in the state of Wisconsin. I got twenty twenty some years in four years in widely the state. State has one of the

best pension systems in the war in the country. Um So, let me give you w M a try. Let me let me give Division one. And I used to joke that we won in double overtime in our last national championship team my last year, and I said I needed to go to Vision one because in Division three they were catching up one. You built a monster. Now everybody was coming out, You're a wise guy. I'm know. We were joking about it one time and so yeah, so and you TREVM was a project they needed some work.

Um So, anyhow, but we had the same situation we went to platte Ville, when I went to Sun Valley High School, book Aiden, UH, at Wisconsin, we went into a situation where it wasn't anywhere near like the other ones as far as where they were. Um So, what happens is, uh, I wanted to take the challenge. It was just this seemed like the right time, and I was still in the state of Wisconsin. Uh and so we Uh. Plus, I like the couch that your dad left there. He had this big orange couch when he

coached at WM and it was still there. I have no doubt that it was still there. His his thing was they were Division one. They were Division one, and he started this panther backer program. And again this is all you know, second third hand information from my dad or my memory or other people have told me. And they started a really good booster program. They had you know, the on campus arena which they the Clatchy Center, which

had just opened. Um. And remember this is coinciding with Marquette winning a national championship, right, So in addition to being kind of a startup Division one, you're in the shadow of Al McGuire winning a national championship. Not nonetheless, Um, you know when title nine was passed, you know, all of a sudden, every penny he raised was going to go to the women's side. He was gonna have to take a pay cut to go and then go Division three.

And you know, like they independent trying to find games, like there was a lot to it. Obviously, it was a tough, tough job, and I have no doubt that the couch was. I wish you would have left some of his sports coats behind as well. He chose he chose nach Um okay, So so you're there. You're there two years the hum in that era, Yes, um, uh, you're there two years now. I was told Northwestern offered you the job at the same time Wisconsin offered you

the job. Can you confirm or deny? I'll be real No, I'll give you the real lowdown on that. That's not how it happened. Um. The a D there at the time. It was a good, good man. Uh. He A couple of players from Northwestern had gone to him and said, hey,

did you ever look at the sky? The said Platville uh or a youm now, but you know what he did at patl Well, they were couple of guys from the state of Wisconsin, and so the a D did some checking and I'm playing golf uh in the Milwaukee area and a guy comes out in the cart and he says, um, I just wanted to tell you there's I didn't know if he wanted to make the call right away or but the the a d from Northwestern that called and left his name a number. Uh, And

I said, okay, well I'm done playing. I'll give him a call. So here here's what happened. He was going to bring me in with the idea that it seemed the way he was talking that I would have been offered the job. But he said he had a big time coach coming in. Yeah, and that if he didn't take the job, that he was going to bring me in and sit down and we'll have a talk. I said, client, great, thank you for being honest with me. So Bill Carmody

flew in. Bill Carmody took the job. Okay, how long after that did you get the How long after that do you get the Wisconsin job? One more year? I think he was there. Um, yeah he was. He was there at two thousand. Yeah it was it was one more year. Yeah, he had already coached the year. Because then I got to be the lowest paid head coach in the Big Ten first, so Bill Bill Carmody, Bill Carmody was making more than me. So so and that that doesn't he I mean, build a great guy and

a great coach. I really really loved his offensive schemes, prinstance stuff. Um, okay, so what was it like to get the Wisconsin job? Like this is you know, obviously your Chester guy, but as you said, like most of your professional life, you know, you met your wife and Wisconsin. Um, you've won national championships in Platteville. Everyone in the state knows you, knows your family, families coaching in the state

as well. Um, and you had been at Wisconsin before when when Brad isn't retained Brad Soderbergh isn't retained a long time, Dick ben an assistant and Dick had retired. Um, what was like during the season did you know you were going to get? Like what? I I don't I had just got finished playing and I was going I was overseas, So I don't remember how you got How did it come about that you got the job? Well, we had almost eaten Wisconsin at Wisconsin my second year.

We had them down at halftime at our place my first year, and then I don't know what Dick did in the locker room with those guys, but man, he must have. He must have gotten into him pretty good, because they came out in the second half and just put it to us. And then the next year we had to go to Wisconsin and uh we had a chaff like thirty seconds ago for a guy missed a tip in so we don't tie the game, then we have to foul them. So it was a close game.

But Pat Richter is a guy who was very familiar with um my background, and because he had talked to me before about the Wisconsin job, then they hired Stu Jackson. I had, I had interviewed, re admitted a place, uh, and so Stue was hired. Great, you know, let's uh. And I continued to coach at Prattville, and then of course stck uh took the job. And you know, I never I never worried about where I Wasn't. I always

concerned myself with taking care of now. Um So, people say, oh, Po, this must have been your dream job here, and I said, well, yeah, you know, who wouldn't I want to be a head coach and the big kid. Uh. And of course it's a job that I would want if it was ever offered. So when Pat Richter called and we met, it was done very fairly quickly. Um so, and they had lost all the guys from the year before that had one more year with Kelly and Burshall and Kalski Boom that

whole team. UM was back and they lost in the first round and Pat Richter decided he was going to make a change. So was I excited? Yes? I was. The tough part was telling the Milwaukee guys who you could see we returned in the corner. We were guys were developing nicely and they ended up being pretty doll going good uh for Bruce and h Bruce Pearl. Ye, so you know everything wents out. What did you think about me for the best and that's so that's uh.

We had I mean from the year before there was kirkpennyback who had played Charlie h Charlie Rolls um, not very many other h Devin Devin Harris? Did did you signed Devin Harris? Devin Harris? Huh you signed Devin Harris? Correct? Yes? And Devin wasn't sure Um when the coaching change was made. You know, he didn't know me, even though I was coaching to u W and he knew about me, and I knew his coach and you know, new people around him.

And so we sat in the office, him and his folks uh for quite a while and Uh, he decided he's gonna stay with his commitment the Wisconsin. So it was like a re recruiting process. You know what. What's what's fascinating about about that musical Chairs game, right, is you have like you hand off to Bruce. Now, look,

Bruce style is different than yours. It's more frenetic. But they would do the show and go press, right, which is Dr Tom Davis a little bit like some of the stuff that you had done the Davis graduator from plaque Villeure. So so they had they also you know, they ran they call it cutters, which is that Dr Tom Davis kind of version of with with the flex right. So there's some there's there's it's not the same, but there's some sort of what now you go take Wisconsin.

And granted they did block remover, which again is a different offense. On the other hand, as you talked about, it's still two guys on the side running actions with each other. So the evolution and they taught guys how to play basketball within their their structure, and that's kind of what you've always done, which is like, look, we

give you structure, but then you play basketball. You know how to play basketball within the structure, and it gives you, in what people would think is not a lot of freedom, it actually gives you a ton of freedom if you know what you're doing and where you're supposed to be. Right. So there, it wasn't It wasn't like you're going from Nolan Richardson to to to Dick Bennett, right, which is

complete opposite sides of the spectrum. You're going from Dick Bennett who had turned the corner, been to a final four, been successful, and and now you kind of give them how I guess the question becomes and you mentioned there's not a ton of carry over. Kirk Penny was really the only one. How hard was it to get people that you didn't recruit though they knew you and respected you. How hard was it to get guys to buy in? Well,

I'll tell you. Our practices were down to the downs of the minute on okay um uh, double staggered screens today on defense, this is what we're gonna do. You're to drill dribble penetration on offense post moves. I always used the the sigma, the Kevin McHale, the Moses Baron, the Bard King and Kevin McHale I guess I don't know if I missed anybody in there, but anyhow that reversed in it, and so every guard because I would post up guards because I didn't think guards played very

good defense the post because they weren't used to it. Um. So I just stuck with the basics, and we've started out like what one in five and of course everybody's going as I remember is telling Kelly one day when I came home from a practice back my first year and Temple had just beaten us and overturn because career from third it shots. It was ridiculous, but they so they beat us and it and I said, Jim, look, you gotta understand, we got it made. I signed a

five year contract three hundred thousand dollars a year. That's one point five million. We're okay, That's what I said, Hey, if they want to get rid of me that first year, that that first month, and then we started turning the quarter um and we end up tied to the Big Ten championship. It was Colonel like the team this year you were for for people who people remember job what the players do right where people don't remember together. Yeah,

you started your your your coaching career at Wisconsin. Start off two and five, right you go? You went out to Hawaii, right, you beat Halo, and then you lose the Weber, You lose the u A, you lose the Y. You come back. You played Georgia Tech. Terrible scheduling, by the way, play in Georgia Tech. Like three days later, off off off the plane. Um, you beat Green Bay. You're losing double overtime to Temple, and it's what is this guy doing? He took over Wisconsin and now of

a sudden they can't. They're they're scoring in the seventies and and and then you you lost a Xavier two. I think you you know, after you won a game and he scored forty eight against Avier. But then then you guys turned the corner. Right, you beat Marquette. You had to go beat Milwaukee. What what's that like? By the way, to coach against Milwaukee your first year, all those guys you had recruited hard. That was the hardest

game that I can remember. Um, because a lot of those guys tried to meet with me when I was leaving, saying, coach, take us and take me with you with uh And I did not take one player. Uh, the only guy that came with me was an incoming freshman who got a release from Bruce because he was a slow guard but could score. Tyton answer, So fast forward to two

thousand five. I'll bet nobody but people could name the starting guards for our Elite eight team in two thousand five that got beat by Carolina by five or six. It was Clayton Nansen and Shariff Shambles. And so Clayton is the only guy that came from Milwaukee with me. Uh. Soon trying to trying to get those guys ready for a game against the school where you just coached, And as my old coach would say, we crushed him. We won by two. And anytime it was a close game,

coach training would always say, all right, we crushed him. Um, not scratched my head and go, I don't think we did anyhow, That's what happened. We gotta steal, Devin, gotta steal at the end of the game for a layup they had the last shot missed. Uh, And I was never happier for a game to be over than that one. Um. I feel like I feel like Alando Tucker is the first guy at Wisconsin that you recruited that perfectly fit how you wanted a guard to play, and he grew

within the system and it they just helped me. All right, great observation because I've said it. Um you know, from a personal standpoint, in the swing, he can slash. He wasn't a great three point shooter, but he didn't have to be. He was a good three point shooting, but he could take you off the bounce an inside in the post for his wiry is you know, he wasn't a big muscle bound guy, but he was really strong for his weight. Um so him coming off of some

of those back screens. And he was one of the best swing players I've ever coached, if not the best, because of all the things that he could do. But that's a that's a good observation on your part from the standpoint of versatility is a pretty good thing, I know. And you're right, You're totally right. Like I I never played post defense, hated it, didn't like it in practice. And then when you get to professional basketball, they're like, if you get posted up, just foul, you get six

and foul, you know, and they'll stop. And he was a guy who if you put a garden him. He post him up and put a big on him. He takes him outside. And if you play off of me, make a shot, big plays up on him and go buy him. And within your offense he becomes impossible to guard. Right, So you pay so much attention to him in the post espense to the help. And now you got your big guys out there making, you know, knocking down jump

shots and you throw your hands up. You don't you don't know how to how to how to guard, and they can't turn you over, they can't speed you up, um and it it feels kind of like an avalanche. And then how did you get your teams to not foul? What is the what is the secret to playing It's one thing to enough out, it's nothing to play good defense. Your teams did both, how doug First of all, how many fouls are committed with hands? Two minutes? Right? All right?

So we're not going to foul with our hands. We're gonna have our hands out every once in a while. I did the thing with tennis balls in the hand, uh, with the idea that it's with the feet. Yeah. First, because the feat has to get there in order for the body to be a wall, and we've always talked about rolling up and but you have to get there

first with your feet. So are conditioning um was extremely important Scott Hattenbach and then Eric Helen who we had the last five years, and so conditioning with trying to get guys a little quicker laterally, and so a lot of the drills that we did, especially in the preseason, uh involved getting better laterally. Get there with your feet, get your arms out and make yourself big. And your

chest is there. But you know, people say, oh yeah, Wisconsin watching, they always put their chests on you, and it well, if my chest is there and you come into my chest, I didn't put my chest on it. But the idea was to try to make no easy threat, noe threes, run people off the line. And of course everybody talks about it now, but I was talking about

it forty years ago in junior high. They didn't have a three point line, but no no easy outside shots, tough twos still a tough two and don't put them to the line. Uh you know, I mean you've got a foul at times and you can't give up. It's not like we say, oh we're a soft team. We're not going to fail you. But the key, Doug, I've always felt his feet first, the body comes and then maybe the hands on the extension. But show the palms fingers out. Uh, don't give the officials a reason to

make a call. The other thing is try to find out now that you're probably banished to home for a while it's takes, and try to find out how many fouls we ever committed. Reaching down? Don't reach down, reach out your your first great team at Wisconsin. Great team was the O eight team. Oh seven, O eight um in great in terms of won the Big Ten. You get one on some run where you win like twelve games in a row, wint one games in the I think sweet sixteen. You're running to Davidson and Steph Curry.

Steph hits you for six threes thirty three points, right like everybody remembers Kansas, but people forget like you were on a collision course with Kansas. They were the best team in the Big twelve. You're the best team in the Big Ten. You're getting ready to play Kansas and then all of a sudden, you see you see Davidson. What do you remember about the Steph Curry tornado that

that tore India. Well, first, I want to respond to the O five season when we're in Oklahoma City and I think it was over five Kansas and we were on the same path, you know, we we played in Northern Iowa, they played buck Mill and Kansas and the Sky Anson was going to be in the next game, supposedly remember that, And so then here we are in OH eight, same thing. Yes, he had just he Davidson us killer did an unbelievable job with that team, and

Ganzaga and Georgetown before they faced us. I mean, if people think what was Wisconsin doing, didn't they did they underestimate Davidson? No, No, I can remember looking at film, putting together the scouting report for Davidson and going wow. And then and people excuses are for you know, the week, but we lost Trebonn Hues for the second half and it was a one point game at halftime and Tremon

uses our cricket card. Um. I thought that turnis And in the year before, we're on a collision course with Ohio State for the Big Ten Championship. They go on to play for the National Championship in the finals and we lose Brian butch Um for ex ended regular season, So I thought OVER seven might have been a little bit better than the O eight team if Brian would have state health. He didn't dislocate his elbow, but yes, what did Seth carry do knock down big shots? But

his teammates had some shots to today. They were a well rounded team. That was a good squad. When you you what, what when you finally got to a final four? What is that feeling like for a guy who's won national championships, you know, like, look, you won turn around programs, whatever. But to get Wisconsin, who had been there obviously two thousand my seniorman, But to get for your system, to do it your way with your guys to get there,

what do that mean? Well, what it meant was, I know there's going to be an awful lot of happy students on campus and alumni. And you know for these players, their parents, their family and their loved ones, um, their hometowns, they get to represent it a school like Wisconsin in the final four, it's you know, one of the biggest

sports spectacles ever. Um So for me, when when you say what what it meant was we had a chance to carry our brand for another forty minutes Hey, we get another game, and uh, we get to represent the school and so in all the things that come with it, and as you know, Doug being in the media, the interviews,

the men, things that experience at the Final Four. When I talked to coaches that had been the coach in Final fourty years before, and I tell them about all the different interviews and different meetings and different functions and different wow, they said, we didn't have one tenth of that in something at the Final Four. So but knowing um,

you asked what did that mean? What it meant was that Wisconsin gets a chance to be out there in the forefront for another another forty minutes on the court, when we get to play another game for everybody involved, And I was just happy for all the people who were believers the first the Kentucky game the first year, it's a you know, it's a one point loss. Is there is there if you could pinpoint one thing you personally would do differently. You can't make them make shots

right like, you just can't. But was it is there one thing you would do differently? No? Because and the reason I'm saying no is because you look at film um and going into the next year. What we brought back was experienced. Um, you know, Frank didn't go pro, and Frank would have been drafted in the first round in two thousand fifteen, but not where he ended up

being drafted in two thousand fifteen. Uh. And Josh Casser had red shirt year because he tore his A c L and I had watched him go through excruciating rehab. So you got those two guys an extra year. Um, and I just felt with their experience and Trey Jackson's and Nigel getting another year under his belt and Bronson Kiney and do you And you know I didn't like look at that loss and say, well, should I play

this guy more? That guy more love? No, people, people were in position to make that a w that shot the Trayvon Jackson took at the end he hit three times in the past two years as game winners down the left hand side, Penn State, Michigan State, and somebody else. So no, I I don't And plus I don't like to look at something and say there's only one reason, so let's just look at it collectively. Everybody just needs

to play a little better. We hopefully we get in that position again, which which you did, and and the next year you win Atlantis, you win the Big Ten. And for people forgot, like you know, you won seven or row that year, than eight in a row, than ten orrow, than a eleven row. You won the Big Ten, you win the Big Ten tournament, you win Atlanta's like essentially, everything that you guys could win you won, which not

only embodies your personal competitiveness, but the competitiveness of a team. Right, this that that was a special special group. You beat Kentucky's asked, now you got? Now? You got Duke? Okay, And the the famous part about Duke was the Szewski interview at halftime, right because coach K thought he was getting a bad end of the whistle, which is kind of classic because that's what people would always think. Did

you get the great end of the wood? You had your own basketball you used at the sterling ball at the Coal Center, right, And guys complain about that. And your teams are physical, but they don't use their hands, so you're gonna get called. Everybody complains about the way you guys play defense. Did you know at halftime about coach K complaining about the officials? No? No, I did not, But let me go back to this. Let me go

back to the ball there for a second. Okay, what team, what team had the only winning record on the road in the Big Ten during the years I was at Wisconsin. I'm guessing it's you. I'm only saying that is that we had to use the other guy's basketball. It wasn't the basketball the Big Ten tournaments. Uhzo made a comment about the basketball being a rock and all that. In the Big Ten Tournament we played six times. That's a that's another ball, that's a neutral ball. We were four

and team in the Big Ten tournament. And and Tom was a great guy. I'm just saying he I think it was more like but there was a school that did have the rock, and it was a rock. So anyhow, we um, you know, I had no idea what was going on to hit him, but uh we just we just needed to hit some shots in the second half and we needed to, you know, try to get a couple of couple of charges or what we thought we had position on and and just a couple of them didn't go away. Um, if if, if you could do

it again, would you change your ball screen coverage? That was the only thing that I know you just need to make some shots. But it felt like the way to beat you guys was you were like flat hedging kind of uh, I don't, I don't know what you call it, or like sinking on ball screen. That's how you play ball screens the whole year. You know, with with with Frank and and and Tias Jones, you know, hit a bunch of shots. If you could do it again, would you change. Well, you have to take a look

at the shots that he hit. First of all, we're trying to run him off three point line. And so what we do is we try to get a guy who wants the rim hunt and maybe get one or two on them charges and then the guy's not coming his herd like we did the Trey Burke um. And you know, Trey was as good off that high ball screen as anybody, and were facing teams that really had good high ball screen action. So what we did was we called it did as fly trap. We try to sucker a guy in for a pull up two pointers

and you know they're in a tough two pointer. We we got somebody there were chasing the guy over the top of the screen. Um. Usually you know when you're doing basketball cats back in the day, you're teaching getting skinny and get over the screen. Well, the way people were setting screens and the way of officials were calling the contact, we just got what was called chase mood. So we're going to chase you over the top if

you want to go to the rim. We got backside help coming over on the big if he's running into the rim, and we're also ready for the big who pops, because then we simply would end up with us with a switch. And so we got the big who took on the guy coming with the ball off the screen, and then are smaller ends up with the big. So now think about this, Doug, where are we in the shot clock? Are they then going to run in action where they're going to get the big down into the

post and try to take advantage of a mismatch. That's right, that's where they played the number. All right, last thing, last thing is this, you're Hall of Famer and I could run through the list of all the Hall of fames you're in and why the respect is one of the great coach in the history of college basketball? Does it? Though?

You mean you're so close twice and and close with another elite eight team, and you know the Sweet six team team and lost to Davidson, you know the team the year before that, Like any of these teams could very well have won a national championship. Um, now, a couple of years removed from retiring, you're watching great guard. Do you feel like because you didn't win a national championship that there is something missed in your career? No, Doug,

I can honestly say that is not the case. Um, because if you get one, why not too, that's a great one. I Mean, who's ever really satisfied when when you've coached for forty some years it isn't Our satisfaction can't come from only winning a national championship. I mean, what kind of a shower of life would a person be living if if that is the only thing that bothers him? Or you know that you are remissed about

or uh have a hard time deal with. No, No, there's just it's too much fun when I hear from some of the former players that I've coached, or find out about the job they take in, or find out about how many kids they have now. Um, you know, Doug, in coaching, there's just so much more that comes out of it other than how many banners were hung up. Okay, so okay, so let me ask this. Give me one guy, one guy who you take the most pride in his

life changing that you were a part of at Wisconsin. Well, how can you have a guy come in and for two years I reached about two points a game and turn into the national player of the year. Um. From the standpoint of the development of an individual, nobody comes close the Frank Comiston. Uh. He just what he ended up doing and what he ended up meaning to the university. There's a story in itself. Um. But there's some other guys.

I mean, we Josh Gossar, Michael Flowers, you know, two guys from the state of Wisconsin who really weren't recruited by a lot of other people period. Mum, like we were by far the best offer. Uh. And and how the two of them turned out. Uh. The development of Orlando, how his eyes, ears and mind were always open with Tucker. Um, the course Devon arras he I'll never forget after the first day of practice, Devon says, coach going to ask

you a question, That's sure, he says. So in all these journals and everything, you expect us to go a all the time, like like full more. I looked at Devin and I said, yes, of course from that day on, every day in practice, every drool emory. I mean, he had some talent, but he developed that talent because of his workout it um. So I know you asked her one day if you if you keep me on here,

I might give you another fifty. But you know there there are some great stories there were really are that I'm you know, as I'm getting older and get a chance to reflect upon um. That makes you feel really warm and both. Thanks so much for joining us. Okay, thanks, so be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon Pacific. Pretty cool stuff, right yeah he He obviously did not like people questioning the sterling basketball because he's like, look,

how many games are we want to throw? It's still the sterling basketball was a hard ball to adjust to. Nonetheless, his style worked continues to work for Wisconsin today and it is unique as is as is bo Bo Ryan, I hope you enjoyed that. Thanks so much for listening. Don't forget to listen to the Doug Gottlieb Show three six Eastern twelve three Pacific. You can download that podcast wherever you download podcast. You can stream us at Fox Sports Radio dot com. I'm Doug Gottlieban. This is All Ball