UMBC Head Coach Ryan Odom on All-Time #16 Seed Over #1 UVA Take Down, Program Building

they really seems like they know each other. Like it's called uh in in uh Hebrew its mish book, which is like family, my family by choice in basketball. It it totally makes sense if you're a hoop guy, right, his dad was a coach, high school coach, became a system, became big time college head coach. And my dad was high school coach, became a college since became a college head coach and college assistant, then an AU coach. Whatever.

It's basketball family, and there's some interesting ties that behind there. Um And ultimately, obviously what we led up to is uh the greatest upset in the history of college basketball. And you're gonna be, I think, fascinated by it. But it's his own personal journey and remarkably, like I set this up to my brother Greg, who does deserve producing credit, and you know I wanted to. I don't want to do it right now as we get into champion Week, into the n c A tournament, and it's just timely

and perfect and enjoyable. And Virginia is still the defending national champion, is of that. But but when we set it up, he was the one seed, and I was like, all right, you know they're gonna win their tournament and then we'll get him. And it's like so they just maybe were upset by the eight seed, and then it became even more timely, more perfect, and I thought to myself, you want to you know, it's just it's just too emotional,

it's too hard. You know, these coaches they lose a game, they bury themselves in a bunker for a month and good luck in them out of it. And I texted Ryan day after they lost two days like he, man, if you know what he's like, now we're doing it. How about we doing Monday? And then Monday didn't work and out Tuesday. So this is dropping on a Wednesday of Championship week, and I know you will enjoy it. It's it's impossible not too because he's just a delightful

human being. UM I do have to promote the fact that when there are lit me of other all ball podcasts that are amazing, amazing from Tremaine Davis who was awarded the State at three and just recently was uh the ceremonial captain a Super Bowl. There's a two part with Ja Billis. You can dig through and find just you know where you searched out this podcast. There's Scott

Brooks podcast, there's uh NATO's podcasts. I mean, there's so many good ones and uh it's it's interesting, Like I kind of started doing this as a bit of a passion project, just like catching up with friends or people that I'm fascinated by in the sport that I love. There's also a teachersmans Ottawa one about his life background which is not really basketball, but his personal story is so good and so interesting, you know, selling drugs and Oklahoma's city as a teenager, uh into making it to

the NFL and becoming a pro bowler. Kind of cool, like we got them all in here. Just download the cowalog. Also can listen to Dug album show daily three to six Eastern Cault their Pacific. But this thing is is growing leaps and bounds, and guys like Ryan on the reason why, they just they have time to tell their story to share with you Dan Munson's podcast and of course um Son of Don an other coach's son was the head coach at Gonzago and they made that initial

Elite eight run that was like a month ago. You can download that. But that's a two partter and every bit of it is good and every the honesty and it is amazing, amazing. You know, sometimes you get a guy like you know, there's more to the story, and most of the guys that we've had, they've just talked and told their story. It's an organic conversation. Um, I'm trying to do that on the radio. Obviously there's some more time constraints and there's some other uh, there's some

other parts to it. I should also point out the Andrew Boga two partner, there's some language issues sometimes not that he doesn't speak English, in terms of our cursing a little bit. It's a little bit more rife, a little bit more real than some of the others. So download those are great list of doug Out the show three six Eastern Fox Sports Radio. I heart radio. App Um, I've I've lived this basketball journey now for I think eighty three was the first time I re umber right

and we talked about that pot Um. I remember final four's. I've gone to final fours. I didn't play in the final four. I wish I did know people. I was like you playing a big coach, like, no, that was that was not me. Now you play with that with with Tony Allen. Now that was John Lucas that we lost the leading. So maybe I'll do a pod next next week on the n c A Tournament. My memories

of playing in it. I kept done something that but the sixteen one, you know, it had never happened before, and statistics will tell you that ultimately was gonna happen. But logic to me, you said, might not have happened because low major is like a bad word that's used traditionally in recruiting. And I've been coaching that low major because somehow it just feels different than mid maker. But the low majors, the true one bid leagues, those are

being rated by the mid and high majors. Your cruity, kid, you think he's a little bit better of mid major minus or maybe even a mid major mid major plus. And you get him, and he's so good that everybody takes notice. And so at au coach or an assistant coach in college somehow finds a way to the family, to the connector and they transfer up right. I mean,

Cleveland State's program was raided. San Jose State has been rated. Um. You go across the country and there's lots of these kids, like I mean, look at Division three programs are losing

players to the Division one programs. Um. So I always I thought recently that because guys are transferring up from the lower levels, I'm sure what happened now, It's important to point out that Virginia did have a major injury to DeAndre Hunter and that changed and not just in terms of their go to guy, but also he allowed them to play smaller and more for out one end.

But that didn't if you go back and watch that game, didn't feel that much like enough just it and it was because it was an asking by UNBC got out of hand in the end. Anyway, Ryan Oldtom his son of the great coach and kind of legendary coach, right in college basketball. His personal story has been told many times over and um, he's come out the other side. He had a great year. They won the league this year at U NBC, but obviously fell short in the conference.

Certain if you're known for one thing and known for pulling off arguably the right US upset the history college basketball, they didn't have. Bet there's a lot more to him. I think you enjoyed this conversation. Here's the head coach of Maryland Baltimore County Rhino. Yeah, college basketball was crazy, right obviously, and I want to get to what happened most recently and then what you're probably most known for. But I don't want to start like when you were born.

Were both sons of coaches, But I think it was right in the window of your dad going from being a high school coach to a college assistance. That is that accurate exactly? Yeah, yeah, Night. I was born in seventy four and my father was the head coach at Durham High School, and uh, you know, back then, John Lucas was playing in a rival high school. There was all kinds of good players around there. Got Marshall Ashford played for him, who ended up going on to Virginia

Tech to be a really good guard. But yeah, he uh, he started in in Goldsboro. That's where he was born and raised. And so his father was a car dealer and so the his dad was a car dealer. His dad was a car dealery and the car dealership in uh in Goldsborough maybe the Cadillac. I have no idea what it was, but um, you know, he would work there every summer and so the you know, the thought was, hey, he's gonna take it over one day. That's just gonna

what's gonna be what happens. And so, um, he went to play basketball for a guy named Jerry Steele at high Point excuse me, Guildford. He'll kill me for saying high Point. He at Guildford College, and uh, you know, Jerry Steele is a great player in White Forest, one of the best big guys in the sixties, back when they went to the Final four and played Billy Packer and that crew, and uh, they were very close in age.

So Jerry just graduated from Wake. It was just coming into Guildford and so that was kind of his first connection into the basketball world was through through Jerry Steel. Jerry played for Bonds McKinny, and you know he mentor dad Dad played football as well. He played uh basketball, he played baseball all like Guildford you know, in college and just love sports. So he ends up after graduating from college going home to Goldsborough and coaches at his

high school. And he graduated from Goldsboro High School. They're a couple of years my brother Lane, who you know is born there at the time in Goldsboro, and then move on to to He moves on and gets offered the Durham High job. That's where I'm born in seventy four, and so he was very fortunate and that he got to know at that point m Vic Bubis was the head coach at Duke. Chuck Daly was an assistant, Hubie Brown was an assistant. I mean it was the who's

who on that staff, you know at that point. And so he would go over there, you know, almost daily to watch the practices and do all that. And so his connection and and initial entree in college basketball was through they introduced him to GARF and so he would take he was kind of the first Southern guy to go up to five Star basketball camp and you know, he literally would drive the bus up and all the local players in the in in North Carolina would go up there with him and uh, you know, spend a

week or two and go to the camp. And say, he became obviously really close with you know, all the coaching characters of of that time, Patino's and you know obviously Garf and for Tella, and he met all those guys and has remained close with them for years. Um. But I wouldn't be coaching if it wasn't for him coaching at Darren High and you know, them connecting into Garf.

Amazing my dad. Uh so my grandpa wasn't accounting, yeah, in New York, and he's a very successful account and Um, he became a car dealer because he would take over parts of people's businesses because you need to look at the books. It's bad shape because they don't know what they don't know what they're doing. And you know, with his accounting background, he took over a car dealership on

Long Island. My dad was like thirteen and moved death Long Island and he became the most successful car dealer on Long Island because he was the first to start leasing and he was leasing two soldiers who were coming back from you know, any sort of battle whatever he had. He had connections uh within like the v A and they would you know, get off the boat and have a brand new Catalec for him, and and uh anyway,

it kind of similarly. Like so my dad his first job was at Fairlawn High School in New Jersey, and I believe the previous coach was HUGHB. Brown and yeah, and then my dad he had this mere curial journey where he was like he was the head coach at Colorado Springs High School, at Death Valley High School, at i'll think of it in the second somewhere out in western Pennsylvania. Uh, close to where Jerry Lucas grew up. Yeah, anyway, it's it's just it's it's interesting kind of the similarity.

So your dad goes to Wake as an assistant, you're like two years old. Yeah, So, so your earliest memories of basketball were more in a college gym or in a high school gym? Like what are your earliest memories? Definitely college? Yeah, yeah, definitely college. I mean I remember Wake a little bit. Um they had because my brother was you know, brother six seven years older than me or whatever, and and so at halftime, they always had this thank called the Dribbling Beacons, and so Lane was

a part of the dribble and deacon. So I sort of remember that. UM. And then you know, he left there, you know, and and became the head coach at East Carolina, and so we moved down to Greenville and and I definitely remember that being there. I remember summer camps, you know, going to his camp, and he would always have great college counselors. I remember James Worthy came, you know one it was probably his after his junior sophomore year or something was when he broke his leg and he was

out for basically the summer at the camp. No no, no, no, I think it was he had some sort of surgery over the summer, and so I just remember him being at the camp with this huge cast on. I don't know how he worked camp with the cast on, but he did. UM. And then you know, Dad left there after three years and then you know, went up to Virginia and and that was kind of an odd thing, you know, because he was a head coach at East Carolina and then he went you know after three quick

years too. And again they weren't terrible when you see they were they were okay, um, and he went to be an assistant for Terry Holland. Well they were number one of the country at that point. That was when Ralph was still there, Ralph's senior year. You know, they were picked to win the whole thing. Um, okay, so let's let's let's let's let's start there. Okay, So your how old this time this is? I'm probably I'm going into I'm going into the third, third or fourth grade

at that point, like like eight years old. Yeah, south and for and like you and I know, and I think a lot of people listening, but there's some people who don't know, like Ralph Sampson was like three time player that year, seven foot four, Yeah, like crazy skill, crazy skill. Remember this isn't a time when the a c C has worthy and Jordan's right and like everybody has NC stated just one nationally one championship like the

league is and he's the best of all. Okay, So eight year old Ryan Odom, what do you remember about like the first you're looking up at Ralph Sampson. Yeah, I mean just just shock. You know, I've never never seen a guy that's all number one and to see the things that he was able to do on the basketball court. I mean, it's what you see all these guys nowadays. And obviously they've taken it to another level in terms of how they play with the ball, you know,

in terms of their skill level. But back then, when you had big guys, it was all around the rim. You know, it was hook shots, and he certainly had all that. Those donks layups and and they would they would get to the free throw. But you know, his ability to shoot and dribble and do the things that he could do on a court, it was amazing. But I remember the times where he wasn't playing, you know, and and I'm at the practice because we literally lived.

You've been to Charlottesville and where the you know, U Haul was. There's a brand you've never I'm actually gonna go there tomorrow. Oh my gosh, you got I have a day off. Yeah, it's just we'll back. I apologized interrupt your stories. Okay. So the first high major to offer me, yeah, it was Jeff Jones and Virginia j Okay, So so when he was there that when he offered me, Harold Dean was his point guard and and I loved Harold Dean, because Harold Dean had like the most he

and Jim Jackson had the most ripped arms. Yeah right, I was like, those guys are badasses. And so I remember, like remember they used to they used to send out, you know, all the mailing stuff whatever, and so I, you know, like Virginia coach Jones offered me a scholarship and um, and I was still a junior in high school and at the time it was mostly mid majors and you know, some tepid interests from some other schools. It was Virginia first, and then Lon Kerger Florida off me.

But Virginia semis so I had got all this stuff and it was the first it was the only school that when they sent all this information, I just poured over it and I was just fascinated by the campus and the beauty of the campus and everything. And I became like I became this likelar Um Bobby really was my idol. Yeah, And I didn't know, but I still to this day, I've never been to Cameron. I don't know anything about I don't know anything about Duke really

is a university. But Virginia I know everything about the buildings and the architecture, like I was super into it. Fascinating stuff. Yeah, yeah, but they remember, they remember the old arena was a dump, like a complete remember, and like why do they play there? Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live. Um. Anyway, so it's it's fascinating event. Okay,

So you lived close to the live close. Yes, there's a bridge leads you know, from one little neighborhood over into where the old arena you hall was, and now they've since torn it down. They've torn down new hall they floated it a year ago, but the new arenas right beside that, and so literally I would get home. We left two doors down from the Hollands, and so I grew up with you know, you know, Coach Holland and Mrs Holland and their daughters and Michael and Kate

Uh Jim Laranago was an assistant at the time. So Jay, you know, and I grew up together. Like that was kind of the staff at the time, and the kids, h Jay and John John's Jay's younger brother. Um and so we had a blast together traveling around, you know, watching the final fours and n c A tournaments and just all these different, you know, experiences that we all had together growing up. Was really cool. And Coach Holland

made it like a true family. But when I would get home from school every day, I would get on my bike and I would ride across the bridge. Sometimes I would walk, um and uh, I would go to the practices and you know, literally you think about the practices and the guys that were in the gym at the time, and then you had Ralph Sampson, You had Rick Carlile, you had Othel Wilson, you know, who was an amazing guard and one of the best in in the a SEC at that time. You had Ricky Stokes.

You know, it was incredible to watch. Um, you know, you can keep keep going with all the players there. When did you first started absorbed the actual basketball? It was probably then, yeah, I mean it was it was, you know, as after we'd been there, you know, three or four years. You know, all of a sudden, I'm twelve years old and and like I'm working out hard over there, and um, you know around the team. You know about when Brian Stiff and John Protty and those

guys came in. Um, yeah, I mean that was about the time. Huh these are these are good players. Yeah, I used to try to copy, like I forgot like John Chardy was. I forgot like man, he was a stud. Yeah he's good. He was just a tough dud too. Mean he well that's the that's the thing. And you know I have I've been eleven year old son and you know, like and he's he's like he's the world's nicest kid. Yeah, he's just nice. And I'll never forget

like he was. I've always I've tried to play him up a lot with eleven to playing like when you get to play thirteens, Like there's just there's just a difference. There's a you know, the kids that have post puberty. It's just really hard to fit in there. Um. And and he's he'll he's like me, he'll be sure late. Um I'm still waiting. So when his his first time playing like AU basketball, I starting coaching this like fourth grade B team, um, and I had him playing on it.

And he's like in third grade and he's young third grader. So instead of just like letting him play like he just he couldn't dribble his left hand his left handed, so oil him ribble right. And then we find the other chem's point guard. I would make we find out his right left handed, make him go the other way the whole game. That's it simplified. And I just want you to guard him the entire game, you know, and just every time he gets the ball, make him go

to his left handies right hand. And so we're playing a team and his fourth graders, and he's really frustrating, this kid, and he's doing a great job and nobody's looking and at the free tow line, the kid just turns and elbows him right in the head. He goes down to the ground. He's crying at basketball. Don't have to play day. And I said, your men, I say to it now, I said, I said, Hayes, listen, bro, if you want play this thing, you gotta be you

gotta be tougher than a two dollar steak. That's right, you gotta and and and the if if we go through, we track the guys that have made it as backup point guards in the NBA, the guys that we all respect as the great college point guards, like all of them they have one thing in coom. Some of them are stores, some of them are facilitators. Some of them are black, some of them are white. Yeah, they were mixed. They are all the toughest dudes on the batto or

you will ever find. It's just that the nature of you have to be smart, yes, a little bit, but you have tough is way more important than anything. Yeah, yeah, you're not gonna make it if you're not tough. Like that kid t J McConnell right now, still playing him and he's perfect, Like look J McConnell like, and I apologize to him every time I see him because I was like dj I because I told him when he finished school. I was like, you know, like europe should

be hard because you gotta you can play. But he plays like a lot of Europeans in terms of his toughness, but they can all really shoot. They like your own guys. It was like, you know, you should coaching whatever. He's like, I'm gonna make it, and he's obviously made it. And he's made it because he knows he does what he can do. Just mid rain shots and layups, get gonna be open and then he just ball goes in the

basket and he's here. We go. Yeah, he just duards and he's just do And they're gonna and they're gonna, you know, they're gonna come at you and try and expose you for your weaknesses every time on defense, and you either decide you want to play or you're done, you know, And then you always say, there's nowhere to hide once you get inside those lines. There's nowhere to hide,

whether you're gonna get done or you're not. And as a team or as an individual, you know, if you're trying to make it as an individual, there's nowhere to hide. It's it's as fair as again, you know. Okay, so you're so so so. I mean Terry Holland had these amazing staffs. Yeah, amazing staffs. I mean really like crazy. You go back kind of uh, you go back through and look at all these systems they have all gone on. They were all successful in coaching and and well respected.

Um oh, why did they not win it all? I mean I think you have to you have to be lucky, you know at times to win it all. And I think that's the short answer of it. Um. You know, they they had you know, that that particular year, they ran into a team that caught lightning in a bottle.

Like if NC State didn't exist, Sydney low And and Derek Whittenberg and all that that that crew, Um, you know, they would have won it most likely, you know, that year and they ran into a team that you know would not there was no give it and it was there was just something magical about it. And um, I think sometimes that's just the way it is. Like you know, you think about Virginia's run last last year a few

years ago. Now, I mean they had to escape multiple round, multiple things had to happen, you know, in each game, and then to continue to advance. And so I think not that you say, oh they're lucky, you know, but you have to have luck, you know, without a doubt. Um.

And the matchups, you know, it's all the matchups. You know, each round, you know how that plays out, you know, you know, you know, I don't I don't really know the ins and out so exactly why they didn't went didn't beat NC State, but you know they they had their chances. I know that, Um, so so your then your dad would wear so he left there in eighty nine and became the head coach Awake. Yeah. So he was an assistant all the way to eighty nine and

then took over Wake Forest that that year. What was what was that like for you to leave? You're you're like painting a picture of utopia and Virginia, right, great teams, Charlottesville is supposely amazing, you know, um and great players and now you're at Wake Forest. And remember this again in the league in nine where Carolina Duke, you know, it's still Virginia and whatever. What was what your early

memories of when you're dead took over a week? Yeah, I remember going to the press conference right at Greylan Conference Center. I mean it was you know, it was it was really exciting because Dad had kind of, you know, achieved something that was a dream of this, you know, to be a head coach in the a c C. And it was at a place that he knew really

well where he got to start. Um, he knew he knew all the people there already, you know, and and they were excited to you know, to have him back, um and and it was an opportunity for him to build something. And you know, I think one of the big things that helped them get going. Um was being able to to sign Rodney Rogers. Um, you know that was that was the first sign that, man, they can do something. You know, if this guy is willing to take a chance on Wake, then you know, we we

we could have something special here. So your dad gets it that, your dad gets the Wake job. Yeah, um that What was that like for you in terms of your basketball? Now your middle school, in the high school,

getting ready for high school. Yeah, so I'm heading into tenth grade at that point, um, And so you know, anytime you you know, you know, as a coach's son, you move around a lot, and so you have to be you you you know, we tried to always look at it as an opportunity as opposed to like, you know, this this sucks. Man, we're moving again. I just made all my friends here and now I gotta leave all of them. The way we try to view it was, you know, I have more friends down because of this,

and let's go and make some more. And so that was our you know, an initial thought going in there, and it was a place that we such a such apparent thing to say that's going We'll just make more friends, Like, yeah, I don't know how that works. You was that like, you're literally never going to see these people ever again in your life. Yeah, you're not the one happened to walk into high school, you know, for the first day where you don't know. Plus you're you're like now the

head coach his son, which is a completely different dynamic. Yeah, everybody has corn. Yeah, yeah, they're looking sideways at you right away. So okay, so what what high school? I went to R. J. Reynolds, which is turned out to be a great blessing for me. It was a great school, awesome school. I played for a coaching in Howard West. It's one of the all time winning coaches in in North Carolina history. Um, just a great coach. And I met some of lifelong friends there, man, lifelong friends. I got.

I gotta, I gotta quick my my own, I gotta. I got a couple of weeks. Four stories. One of them is do you know that Fran McCaffrey went there as Yeah, okay, yeah, okay, so when your dad recruited him? Was your dad still there when Fran was there? He was there for a year, I think, and Fran left he didn't play that much, And well, I don't know Frank I think France that he started as a freshman. He might have. And he said his Kyl Tasey story

was this one. Yeah's a good one. He said, yeah, he has two of them, okay, and I probably I've had him on the pod and I don't know. He didn't tell it, so I'll tell it for him. Yeah. He said one was their planet, dude. And then he had a rule and you could ask your dad this rule that was on the side. It was in the side, side of the bounds. They were in zone yeah, underneath

there in man. Okay, okay, so they're planet Cameron. The ball goes out of bounds and it's down close to the corner, but it's on the side yeah, um, or excuse me, underneath that a bounder in stone side there and man right, So uh, ball is out of bounds and um, it's on the sideline, close to the baseline, but still on the sideline. So Frank gets his man.

They throw the ball bounds to the elbow where he's supposed to be if they were in a twoth risona, only they're not supposed to be a two the risona and Kyle Tacy hops up and yeah, you know, and he so Frank comes over and he's like, why did

you take me out? And he said, and he goes, you don't know, and so he goes in instead of going and sitting down on the bench, and he goes, coach, we gotta rule side out of bounds, were in man underneath, we're in zone, and Tasty like wheels back and he's watching the game and like it should have been over at that point, but of course, if you know Fran, it's not over. So France, France says something like, so what you should have done was take those other four

assholes out and left me in. So that his other stories, other stories, this is my favorite one, and I said, I'll never forget. We're sitting in the Joyce Center and we're watching the girls practice. Little did I know that Margaret was a women's coach at the time. Frand was single and they had just started dating or whatever. So watching the women's talk to Muff mcraw is a great coach watching practice, And I said, Brandy, when don't you

know you want to coach? And he said, let tell you the moment playing in College Park against Maryland, I think I left he Guerzelle. We got Kyle taste and they're both good coaches, and uh, three seconds left go in the game, and we're down a point, and we call it time out, and assistants are arguing over what to run, and by the time they decide that, by the time Kyle Tasty comes over to drop a play, the buzzer sounds and the refs are putting his back out of the court and he turns to me and

he's like, Frank, get him something. He's like, you know, we're running two whatever. Two is right. So they get the line up and Lefty Grizelle looks and he calls the time out because he wants to adjust to whatever takes. He's like, So I said to myself, wait a second. One guy can't get decide what he wants to run. The other guy wants to call it time out to give the other guy a chance to figure out what he wants. I gotta do this. This, this is the

greatest job ever. Well, so you're to high school, you're having a great experience. How good How good were you high school? High school? I was solid, Yeah, I mean I played as a sophomore on the on the varsity and then you know, started my last two years um, and you know my options were walk on it wake you know, walk on at Furman, but Chests was the coach there. Uh yeah, grade school, um, you know, or or go to Hampton Sydney and and you know I wanted to play, you know, it was still in me.

You know, I wasn't I wasn't ready to kind of give up on the actual action. And uh, you know I decided to go to go to Hampton Sydney and play for Tony Shaverer. Tony, you know it was an awesome coach m still is to this day and a tremendous mentor for me. Uh. He was a walk on for Dean Smith at U n C. And I used to playing it still for it every day in practice, and so he taught us all so much, I mean

over the years. And I've still got some of my best friends and memories you know from college and and games that we had and you know how it is, you remember you don't necessarily remember all the games, but you remember all the times together outside of the games, and uh, you know we still are on you know, we still connect with one another, our team, you know,

on text and all that from that time. So so when you so so now you're starting to form kind of your own basketball identity, right because um, like obviously your dad has one style, yeah, high school coaches style. Tony has a style. You know, when you're a smart thinker, you have an opinion of your own. How did how did you guys play? Because you I think you shot a lot of three, didn't you guys? You guys play, Yeah, I had a semi we were We played the Caroline system.

I mean it was it was totally the Carolina system. I mean we pressed, you know, I mean we would score basket and we were in any for what they called twenty four, which is face guard your guy, and we'd have a guy either on or off the ball. Um, and we were making your life miserable. You know, the entire entire game, turning you, trapping you, um, the way they used to play back years ago. And uh, occasionally we would switch to his own, but that was rare. Um.

You know, that was the momentum changer. Offensively, we were motion. He had some sets in all those same sets that that they would run, uh you know, in transition, you know, reversed backscreen, you know, the lobs, all that kind of stuff. We did we played Carolina basketball at Sydney at that level, and you know, very little scouting of the other team, Like I don't even really remember a ton of scouting for the other data. They did it, but it was

all about us. It was never about like the other team. They would have to beat us. And you know, he he was just a really really good coach, and uh, that was it was a fun time in my life. So so you get them playing, yeah, and then now you're just wasn't the only best. But I mean like,

look that's a great school. Yeah, I mean my thought initially, I did an internship my junior year, um in between my junior and senior year at Bank of America and Charlotte, and I worked for my godfather all summer on the trading floor, and so I thought about going into the financial That was my my initial goal when I was an econ mayor. I thought about going into financial world.

And uh, you know, while I enjoyed it that summer, I wasn't ready to give up hoofs and uh, you know, as I got later into my senior year, you know, it was a parent that I wanted to coach, and my father was kind of at the height of his career. You know, they had won back to back ACC championships with Duncan Children's and those guys. Um. And then you know, my brother was coaching, you know at Alabama. You know they had Spreewell and Cory and all those James Hollywood robins.

Were they. I mean they actually a little un of fact, my brother and my father played against fore another and n s a turn. You know, Alabama played Wake Forest, which is pretty cool. Um, but you know it was it was a parent that I wanted to do that. And and your old buddy Seth Greenberg gave me a chance down at down at South Florida and helped me get into business and and then gave me my second

job or my third job at Virginia Tech third or fourth. Yeah, so the he tried to recruit you didn't he did, so he recruited me a Long Beach initially coming out like you know, my dad we moved out to California because my dad was an assistant under Tex Twitter at at Long Beach and I mean he had it going at Long Beach State, Yeah, he had it was it was a big time program in a small time league.

And um, but I just I mean part of it was I really, you know, I probably want I wanted to go to u C. L A. And they offered me, but it was just there was there was some baggage there in terms of them not offered me early and from a younger, from a kid the year behind me, and I just I didn't feel it, and I maybe wanted to get to get away as well, Like you know, I moved back since to California, But there's there's a

reason that I wanted to get away. I love I don't I love basketball, but I like I want to play somewhere where they love basketball, where they care about it. It's warmer college atmosphere. And it took a second stop to get there. But when I transferred, uh he and and dave Z they put on the full core press to South Florida. Yeah, we were, we were, we were gonna have we were gonna have a minion. We're gonna have all the just all the Jews gather in Tampa

and and be it's at South Florida. And so year what year was that, because I think I was nine six and set up. So I went there ninety seven his first year I was there. Yeah, right, so he uh yeah, so he he he did like to home visits. It was a weird he would like did a home visit and then he was like, he's like, I forgot some stuff and I was just I couldn't. I just couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it. Like there was an ego part to it that I wasn't I wasn't willing to give up that

the high major thing or whatever. And uh and it wasn't anything personal, said I love Seth Um so okay, but Seth coaches very differently then, especially differently in your dad Terry Holland and Tony Shaber. What did you take from that experience when you're just getting into the business. Yeah, I mean, for he wasn't afraid of anybody. You know, I think he's not that he should to outwork because everybody works hard in college basketball, Like there's a there's

a lot of hard workers out there. He works really smart, um, and you know it's almost like he like you have your back against the wall. He's got this underdog team and he knew what it was gonna take with his team to get them to fight and be tough to a certain level. UM to be competitive and not only be competitive, but to win, and like what he did in Virginia attack you know, and you know his time there,

you know it was he got that program going again. Uh, it had fallen on hard times, you know, had some transition in terms of moving leagues and all of that, and he just infused this immediate energy and no fear, and you know, he got to the how, I how do you do it? How do you infuse toughness and energy and belief when it doesn't exist. Yeah, I mean I think initially it's it's you know, the recruiting side of things. You know, you have to you have to.

We were fortunate that, you know, when when he first got there, he signed he ended up signing zadendal Del who he was recruiting at South Florida UM. Xavian turned out to be an all a sec a performer. He was just a hard worker and had no fear and had the chip on his shoulder and and and wanted to prove people wrong. So I think that's one of the first ways that you do it, because you have to have others within your program that feel like they've been you know, slided a little bit and they have

something to prove. And we had a group of guys that felt that way. Um, Jamal Gordon was his backcourt mate. I mean, Jamal Gordon was recruited by the Georgia Techs and some of these other schools, you know, overlooked probably by his local schools in Florida State and Florida and Miami. Um, and he came up to Virginia Tech. And it was open for them to play because you know, we didn't have anybody else really at that point. And and you know, they just they just took it. Those two guys took

it and ran with it. And we had a young player in Coleman Collins who just kind of grew into an amazing role and and uh, you know, became a dominant, you know player for us, and we just kept recruiting, you know. Um, I think one of the things that you know, he really tried to do was playoff of the success that football had already established. Like there's a built in fan base at a football school like that, you know, in Virginia Tech. And so all of the

cheers and the things that they were excited about. Um, you know, we tried to move into Castle Coliseum, and the students already were excited about the university as a whole. Like you walk around that school, you don't see any other shirts. You know, there's certain certain schools where it's like, you know Wake for instance, you know that they're just mixed allegiances in that community. And it's not Wake small.

It's just you know, you have u n C. You know Duke and Carola and uh NC State they're also close together. Um naturally there's some mixed allegiances. Well in a place like a college town like you're talking about, there aren't any like everybody's for that for that school, and you don't even wear that, you don't wear another color like that. Yeah, you know that's the thing that I think people don't if you're if you haven't been

a part of it, you don't understand. Like if you live in Stillwater or you're an no papers, you don't own anything that's red, You don't own anything that rent any shade of rend. You just don't own everything you have, Like you fall back on orange, right, Like that's just the way it works. And whether maroon or orange or whatever. When you're Virginia Tech like that's all you own. You're like, you're just all in. Yeah, And so he was able

to play on that. And you know, he's he's obviously a great motivator, right, um, you know, communicator and uh, you know, he made it a point to get to know the students, you know, to to to really get out in the community and and uh, you know, be a be a voice you know from the basketball program. They we're here too, We're trying to do something special, you know, just just get on board with us. And uh, and the players obviously did the bulk of the work.

You know, they began to have success and and and play a tough brand of basketball that that community really fell in love with. Like his teams were tough and that was all built in practices and and just a work ethic you know that that he established and you know, um yeah. So so then you went where left there and went to UNC Charlotte UM and worked for Alan Major at UNC Charlotte. So he was just leaving Ohio State.

They've been in the Final four and at that point Charlotte was in the Atlantic ten UM and they were adding Buckler and v c U and and all the other teams that you know, I don't bother since left, but are currently in the in the league. And it was a big time league. Um, And it was a big time opportunity for me. Um. It was a chance for me to go work for a guy who's gonna be a first time head coach, and so I wanted to do that again, um, you know. And and it

was home you know as well. I hadn't worked in North Carolina in a long time. My brother worked there for Loots, and so I knew the history of the program. Um. You know, I felt like it was a Xavier kind of situation. You know, it was, Yeah, it was. I mean they were competitive with Cincinnati and Louis Villan and all those teams, and and uh, you know, while we didn't achieve everything that we wanted to achieve when we were there, we recruit some great guys and and you know,

had a good experience. Without a doubt, I would trade that experience for anything he had. He you took over his interim I did. Yeah my last year. What what what first take me through the experience of when a coach and I think he had some health issues too, right, And then you know, and then, um, how did how how does it go down? How did it go down for you? And that you know, the A D comes in and says like, hey, you're the guy. Yeah, I mean I think it was how did how did it

all work? Yeah? I mean it was it was the A D ended up, you know, communicating that to to all of us. But at the same time, Alan was intimately involved in, um, you know, in terms of you know, spearheading spearheading that and what was what was best, what he thought was best for the program. But there are other experienced assistant coaches on that staff. I mean Desmond, Oliver, Orlando and Ross both you know or friends to this day. And you know, I think our approach was we're just

gonna do this together. Well I have to actually be the interim head coach. We're gonna do this thing together because that's the only way it's gonna work. And I didn't want that, that separation, UM, and so we kind of kept doing our jobs, you know, um, you know, we had the respect of the players and and and you know, obviously all three of us had kind of

been intimately involved. We recruited together there a little bit differently than some other places that I've worked where it's like, hey, you go recruit this guy and he's your guy and whatever. You know, we recruited together so that that part of

it was not an issue. Our whole goal was to do the best for those players that we could do, UM, while understanding that you know, their leader was going to be gone for a bit and uh, we didn't know how long it would be ended up being that entire season, or not an entire season, but from January on, um, for the remainder of the year. And uh, and that was a hard ending for us. You know, I think we were I don't remember exactly what our record was, but we lost in the first round of the tournament

in a really close game. UM. I think it might have been to middle at the time. I can't remember who it was. But um, anyway, UM, we were like eight and eleven. You know, we weren't We weren't great, obviously, but we weren't weren't terrible either. Um. We had some really good players, you know at that point. A lot of them went on to time majors after you know, outing them out and us would let go. Um and you know, we we Uh, it was a tough ending for us, for sure. And that was a dark time

for me personally. Man, getting fired. We coach long enough, you're gonna get fired. You know. It's just the way it is. So that's that's why I asked, Okay, So you know, I think one of the one of the hard things, uh, for fans and the media is the understanding of like when people get fired, like we just very callously go like, well, he should get fired and

he he makes a bunch of money. Like holdo, man, you've got all these assistant coaches and while they're they're making decent livings, like they gotta go home and they have wives and kids and they're gonna move and they got to try and go find a job. Like it is a okay, so, uh, what do you remember about losing You lose your job in Charlotte? Then what what? What? What's that? Yeah? I mean I was devastated, you know,

I was devastated. I felt like I let Allan down. Um, you know, the players, Um, you know, obviously circumstances or circumstances. You know, we could have won some of the games we lost, but we didn't. Um, you know, and and you know it is what it is. The results were the results and no hard feelings. Obviously, they made the decision that they felt was right for the you know, the program at the time, and still have a good

relationship with with with the folks there Charlotte. Um. But you know, for me personally, the biggest issue that I had going on, you know and my family was my son was sick. You know, it's been pretty well documented Connor as o c D. And so my wife was not hiding, but she was really during that time where I was the inner one cup. She was trying to

keep it off of me. But he was getting worse, you know, as every day went and you know, it got to a point where the season ended and he was really really bad and uh you know you know that. I remember one weekend I had to take my youngest and and go down to Charleston just to get him out of the house. Um oh, and you know, just to get him away from you know, seeing Connor in a bad state. And Lucy just obviously it was an amazing uh force for Connor and h led us through that.

And that's a hard deal. You know. They had two different stints you know, in in Nashville, Tennessee, doing therapy, you know, at a at a hospital. Um, and so she had to get up and move all the way out there with him, rent an apartment, which obviously costs money. You know. You think about that like all of a sudden, we're fired, no job, She's gotta move to Nashville, you know, and we've got bills to pay, you know. It's it's

it's not it's not going Anything's aren't going anywhere. And uh, during that time, I think he left in August, and he and Lucia left in August, and I had accepted a job at the nore Rhine University. I was very fortunate to get that job, and and a division two head job, um, you know, at at a place that um, you know, to this day, I wouldn't be where I'm at, you know, had I've not been presented with that opportunity, you know, and forever thankful for that for sure, saving

our lives. Okay, So now you have your own program, yeah, and you've been at all sorts of different levels. You have your family, and you're trying to figure that out. How did you put together your first team and run? Yeah, I mean I think one of the things that I was lucky again, Um, you know, I followed a coach and John Lentz, you know, had been there for twenty

eight years, and great coach. He's Rick Barnes, his teammate, you know, and they both played at the Noor Rude and uh, he was a coach that you know, I don't know how to describe him, but like his players, knew exactly what he wanted. He was a tough coach, all right. And so this this the team that I inherited, was very disciplined. And for a young coach to come in in that capacity to inherit guys, I mean they were they were already trained. He had well trained them.

And so I walked into a great situation. Maybe we didn't have exactly you know, the talent you know that some of the other programs in that conference had. We were able to repeat and add a couple of guys that, you know, when when combined with the returners, ended up being you know, a storybook season for us UM. And you know, I found just some amazing players there. Still have amazing relationships with those guys to this day. Forever grateful for them, um, you know, for all their hard work.

But that was a fun year. Man, Sweet sixteen had some great, great memories. So so you inherited a tough team, maybe not as talented as others that league. And then I lost. Yeah, we recruited. Then we added to that. We recruited a kid named Keenan Palmore who was transferring from Old Dominion and Jeff Jones and he had one year remaining and he played for Old Dominion. He was he was kind of a you know, I don't know what you would call it back up maybe or whatever.

He wasn't a full time starter. He did start some games, but um, you know, heading into a senior year as a parent, he was going to be a backup. But he didn't want to do that. And he found us in Lenora Run and you know, that connection was was very strong. He ended up being an All American. He had four or five triple doubles you know that year. And he was just an amaz easy player and he came into a group of guys with no ego. It was all about he was. He was an amazing passer.

You love this about him, Like he literally made like to three pointers the entire year, and our team shattered the three point record you know for the conference, you know, all time shattered the record for uh Leonora Ryon and we were number one in in Division two and three pointers made per game at like right at thirteen, just under thirteen. But it was all because of him, Like he was getting guys shots over and over and over again. He was just getting the land and and get it

to him. But he also knew that he wasn't at three point shooter, and so he ended up taking two shots at the end of shot clocks, you know, and I was in one of them went in, and I was hoping he was gonna get a whole season and not make pointing. I was actually quoting for that because what a story, right, everybody shoots the three now, and it's like care like he just wanted to get in the lane and you know, and and played to his strengths. But that was one of the reasons that we won.

And and so then so what was your decision like to leave there? You know, it was it was a hard decision, and that was an emotional decision because I found some some guys there that changed my life and I love dearly. But at the same time, you know, I understood that, you know, coaching, being a head coach in division one is a hard thing. It's hard to get those jobs and there are only three forty four or whatever that number is of them, and it's very competitive.

And when you have an opportunity to do it, you know, I'm I'm a big believer. Yeah, they're they're good jobs. They're they're certain jobs are better than others. But there's no bad division one. You go and make it. You can make it what you want to make it. And uh, you know, I felt like UNBC was it was a great time to go here. You know, they had some some hard times, but they were building a brand new arena.

We're in a geographic footprint that you know, basketball is important, like you were talking about, UM, and you know, I felt like, you know, we could build something special year. So what was your first team? Like first team again, I inherited a group, um just great guys. You know. I had guys on on the team that were four point those students. I had guys that had transferred, one transferred from DCU who ended up being you know, probably my best my best player, um, you know who would

just happened there. As I began to have my meetings with the players while they hadn't one together at UNDC. One thing, one common theme was they had all one other places. You know. One one had played at Brewster Academy with Donovan Mitchell, you know, and they didn't lose a game. Uh you know. Another one played into Matha, you know, in in one Championships. And so as I went through that team, they all want elsewhere. And so it was all about and the coaches and one elsewhere,

and so it was all about we made it. Hey, let's win together, Matt. We we all know what it feels like to win. Let's make sure that we're doing that every day. So my whole thing was we're gonna establish a winning culture, and that means we got to compete to win every day. And we compete with one another first, and we prepare, you know, for our opponents, and then we begin to compete compete against them. Okay, So this is and and again, if you're tight on time,

you tell me. So this is so much fascinating to me. There hasn't been a job that you've gone to where And again, you know, there's probably some guys you're not mentioning, but most coaches confide in coaches and people like me, and they're like you know, wait to get my guys in here, right, and you know, and they run, they run guys off, They call them in and and they

say like, look, man, you're a great kid. You're just never gonna play here, got YadA YadA, And they just buy time until their their recruits come in and now they're they're all in, which I always find to be a mistake. Yeah, is that why why do you it doesn't do not seem to have that. Is it because of the guys that proceeded you left you or is it that it's just a philosophical belief that you have. Yeah,

I think it's a belief. I mean for sure. I mean they chose that school for a reason, and you know, they chose those coaches, and they have a right to if they want to leave, you know, when you first get there, then that's fine. I'm not trying to hold anybody, hold anybody here. But if they want to stay, I want them to be able to. They have their scholarship, they want to they want to do that. I want

them to do that. But they're gonna be a part of this program and do it the way we ask them to do it and and all that, um, But you know, I believe retention is a key thing. You know, and in any college basketball program or any endeavor for that matter. UM, you know, when you when have folks that you know are all in, you want to keep them. You know, you look at all the great college football and basketball programs over the years. You know, the head

coach stays there. The assistant coaches, you know, for the most parts, stay there unless they're moving on to head jobs. Those are the teams that they usually went. UM And if you have a lot of volatility and change every year, and I know that's gonna be harder, you know, as they change these rules. I mean, it's just it is what it is. Um, Retention is a huge thing, you know. Like that, I guess, I guess this is an honest question.

But why why do we we we seem to let these exterior forces be a part of this change when you and I have been around this our entire lives and we know that's actually not And look, I'm a transfer okay, but I and I was before I even got and I got in trouble, I was considering transferring. So I'm not saying that I think there's a there's

a maybe another discussion. I think that one of the biggest issues is that you don't get enough time to truly recruit somebody and know that kid and him know you so that so that when you when he shows up on campus, you actually know what you got on both sides, right, And I think that would I think that would help. But it feels like we're all like, you know, it's just the times to transfer and not sit out like why but because somebody on the on on Twitter who's never been a part of it doesn't

understand that every freshman wants to transfer. They all they want to transfer to the NBA or to another school, right because, But but you know what else, Almost every college kid wants to transfer because your freshman year is hard. It's really hard that classes are hard and you're away from home, you have to manage a budget, it to mends your time, your demands, your relationships. Like it's really hard, you know. I feel for the kids are freshman right now.

This is their first experience in college. My son's one of them, and it's just, you know, it's not normal. You know, you're getting your nose poked and tested constantly, and you know you gotta go back to your dorm room or your wherever you live, and you know, I can't be exposed to anyone. It's just not a normal situation. And uh, you know it's it's uh, everybody sacrificed, and certainly this year, you know, hopefully we'll get back to normal at some point. Okay, so how did you how

did you make it hit? Like? What what? When? When? When did it like this is gonna work? Yeah? I mean I think that first year. I mean I I called that team the foundational team, you know, and we compared it to a house. You know, when you establish a foundation, that foundation has got to be strong. I can't have any cracks in and I inherited some great guys, and I going back to the culture thing, you know,

trying to create a winning culture. And you know, going back to what you said, it's not about what the previous staff did or saying, oh they have bad culture or whatever. We're trying to change the culture now. We're not trying to do that. We're trying to establish our own winning culture. I don't I don't care what happened before. I want to make sure that every day that they come in here, they're trying to win and you know that means against one another, whether it's a one on

one drill or whatever. It is, like, we're gonna be competitive, and if you're not, you're fooling yourself because when the game happens, you're gonna get beat, you know, on a regular basis. And you know, this game is played with physicality. It's played, you know, with the physical side of things, but it's also played, you know, on the mental side of things, and if you don't have both, you know

you're gonna get beat. And so we spend a lot of time, you know, with our guys working on working on both, and you know, and then you know, I think the distractions are are a big part of why teams don't win. And I was very fortunate that first year did not have many distractions in terms of all the court things that can derail you know, a team and its ability to to go for it. These guys were all in um and yeah we weren't great, but we still want twenty one games. They had won prior

to that seven straight twenty glass season. And so this kid, this team, you know, had the biggest turnaround in Division One. You know that that year, and you know, while we didn't win our goal or make our goal when they make the ns A tournament. It was evident that everybody was coming back and we had a chance to be really good that next year. Now we were gonna still have to beat you know, Vermon team. It was spectacular,

you know, Um, so Simes, when guys come back. Sometimes when guys came back, it's kind of a good thing, right because because they have they have, everybody expects more. Yeah, fans expect more, but everybody expects expects more. Um, what was that next year? Like? Well, the next year it was the n c A tournament year and you know, yeah, we got off to a good start. Um, we did

have a few injuries. You know, we're Jari's m A game or two Jordan's MR game or two my my kind of guards there kJ miss the first two games. It was the starting point guard. Um. You know when we played Arizona and s MU and so you know, I knew we had a chance when we were playing Arizona and you know, they couldn't really separate them until the very end. Um, you know, they would get out you know, eight nine points and then all of a

sudden we'd close it back. You know, and then halftime we're down seven or eight or something like that, and they'd get it out to sixteen and then all of a sudden, it's three. You know that that particular team was resilient. And we played that particular game without kJ Marrow, who ended up it was our point guard, um, kind of the maestro of the whole team. Um, And we were still in it. And so I felt like this particular team had a chance, you know, do something special

at least in the non conference. Uh told me that. And then once we got into conference play, we were pretty consistent. You know. We we lost even though we lost her Vermont twice, we only lost one other game, I think, um, you know, in conference play, and so we knew, you know, if we wanted to make it eventually, we're gonna have to go through Vermont, you know at that point, and uh, you know, obviously we were able to do that in the final game. What's that experience like?

Because everybody focuses on the Virginia game, but but the Vermont game gets you actually like, that's that's the big one. That's the one that the rest of dicy Yeah, what do you what do you remember about that game? Yeah. I mean it was just a hotly contested game. Uh, places packed obviously. UM, I think we're up maybe a couple at half, and and we were fortunate to be up. I mean they were they were playing well. We made some shots at the end of the half just to

just to kind of that out. Um. You know what I remember most is kJ our point guard getting his fourth foul with about eight minutes to go or twelve nights to go, and I was like, oh crap, we're in trouble here, and we kind of locked into something, you know, that particular game. I put him back in early, and I changed the matchup, you know, for who he was gonna guard, and I put him on a shooter, which wasn't a normal thing for us. You know, he

always guarded the other team's point guard. He was defensive player of the Year that year. Um, even though he's five seven and so he would always pestor like your son pestor the other team's boy card and her mind had a great point for that year. Tray Belle Haynes

was spectacular. He was hard to pester her, and we ended up moving the match up and put a bigger guy on Belle Haynes and kJ ended up Garden the shooter, and so it allowed him to kind of stay in the game longer, you know, without risking a foul um And so that was a huge key. And then at the end, you know, obviously Jared's was Jared's. Jared's worked really hard for that moment, and you know, I could have been more proud of him and the growth that he showed over the two years that I was fortunate

enough to coach him. He was a great player, a great score, dynamic player. He was the best player in the league to me that year, even though he didn't get Player of the Year um. And for him to have the ball at the end of the game in that moment was the right thing and it was the way it should have ended. And uh, you know, I wanted to run another play, and Kj's yelling at me, no, don't run that play because it required him to give the ball up, and so I hadn't trust What did

you want? What did you want to run? So I wanted to run just one of our plays called euro Too, where you know, kJ starts it and then he flips it back to jareds Jared's gets it, you know, a pick and roll screen comes out and then he's able

to kind of get downhill and make the play. And it would have required Jared's already had the ball and I knew I wasn't called it time out right, Um, And so that is that typically your style in terms of not calling a time out usually yeah, usually, you know, I like to like my guys will be able to know what to do in those instances. Um. Not to say that I won't call it time outs, I certainly will,

you know if if it's not going well. Um, But at the same time, you know, I like to be able to coach from the side there where they can't get it set and like the up and trust my guys and and that particular team, I had no reason not to trust them. Um, you know, three really good guards that you know knew what to do. And I've never understood there's a lot of there's lots of coaches who like, not only you practice this all year, you

play it all year right in front of your bench. Yeah, and yet they want to call it time out, which allows the other guy to set their defense. Like I don't. I don't understand, I really, for the life made don't understand still. Um, and and sometimes you know, you want to get somebody in or whatever for a match up, but I don't understand anyway. Okay, so he has the ball. What what? What's My job at that point was to get everybody the hell out of the way, get it

get its space, baby, get it space. Letting go. And he delivered, you know, he delivered. So it's not complicated, right the sele so double zeros in the cloth. Yeah, okay, you look up what you look up at the scoreboard, You look at your family, like, what what? What do you remember about the moment? Yeah, I mean I remember hugging my kid. I remember hugging my wife, you know, and and every player. Um, you know, I remember having a moment with my A d you know, leaved in

me and our staff. He's crying, you know, we're all crying. Um. My best friend in the world, Griff Aldrich, who is now the coach of Longwood. Um, you know it was a lawyer, uh in in my college teammate. Uh decided he wanted to coach, you know. Um, and he came. Yeah, so he came with me when I first came to NBC. And uh so he and I were hugging big time. You know, to have that experience with your best friend, you know, it's pretty cool. Um. And so yeah, I

mean it was an emotional time. I mean that game is way more emotional than you know, the Virginia game obviously, um not obviously, but for us it was because you know how it is, you it comes down to that one weekend, like you have the best season. We just experienced, it comes down, it comes down. We were the number one seed. We got knocked out. You know, the other team gets hot at the end and in the last eight minutes and hey, the season's over. You walk in

the locker room and like what just happened? You know, it's it's crazy. Um. So so you get back and that championships a little bit early, right, so now you you gotta gotta get ready. What what what was Selection Sunday?

Like Selection Sunday? It was fun. You know, they had a big party on campus and you know the typical thing, uh, CBS wanted to do that in person whatever live looking you know with us, you know, because it was our first time going to the tournament since two thousand and eight, and we had a you know, a crazy envy obviously in in the conference final, and so that was great, and then you know we see Virginia's name pop up. I was expecting, quite honestly, to be a fifteen. We

had a good team that year. Um, I felt our numbers would be such that we would be in that fifteen line. And so I was really thinking, Duke, you know, I was thinking some of those teams that were on the two line that we would end up playing. And uh so I was a little bit shocked, and I did. We all did a collective gulp and gas we saw Virginia because they were just so good that year. I mean, they were so good and we didn't know Hunter was

going to be out at that point, you know. Um So it was just and and for me, a lot of emotions because I grew up there, you know, going back to that, you know, I grew up there. That's where I first fell in love with Hoops. You know, we got a lot of respect for me and his staff. So it was it was that that part was was kind of crazy. Um um, you know, at the bridge and everything and Terry Holland staff. Okay, so you're throwing the tape, yeah, and you're sitting there with your staff.

What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I thought this is the best team in college basketball. They're the most well balanced team on both sides of the ball. Um, you know, are we gonna be able to score thirty six? You know? And that's the reality. That's what every coach when you're you know, ready to play Virginia, it's like, you know, they may not they may not go to eighty on you, all right, but can you get the forty? You know? I mean that's the reality. Um, you know,

they're gonna get the sixty. Most likely, they're probably gonna get the seventy if they want. They don't really go past that very often, at least in that that era, they didn't. Um, you know, I've seen them play teams earlier in the year that they held the thirty six points n c A tournament teams, and so we knew we we had a tough, tough task, a tough draw. One of the things that helped us with that draw was weeks of preparation. You know. For Vermont, you know,

they play a similar brand of defense. Um, you know, they guard you hard, but they they don't allow threes. You know, they guard the two extremely well. At the rim the rotations or pristine um. And so we had a lot of prep you know, leading into the Virginia games, that type of defense UM and that that certainly helped us offensively. When did you know what Hunter was up? Uh? Not until we were on the plane going down there. Yeah. So that was probably on a Wednesday, maybe two or

three days before the game something like that. I think that's about what we figured it out, all right, And all of a sudden, you're like, wait a second, hold on, this is a it's a that's a great deal. Yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah, because whenever they needed a basket, they were going to him, you know, and like and sometimes it was a post up you know whatever if they ever got dicey, you know, they were running something to get him the ball in and near the basket or in kind of a mid post area

or up near the elbow and is so situation. And so I knew he would be a problem. Not that I felt like we could guard all the other guys, but you know, I knew that had the potential to change it someone you know, um, at least at least it did. It certainly didn't hurt. Let's just say that, but it also it also defensively changed them because now they had to play two traditional bigs, you know, and you know, so okay, so you know, I know how it works. I've been in those locker rooms, and I've

never been in the locker room work. You know, couldn't make you believe you had a chance, and that if you execute the game plan, like we're gonna win this game, fellas, and here's how we're gonna do it, and you're like, we're gonna do it, and um, what was the belief level like from your team in your prep? I knew never to doubt that particular team, you know, I wasn't saying that we you know, I would never say that we knew we were gonna win the game. You know.

Our Our goal was to be competitive in the game and to the end the game and to have a chance at the end. I mean that that was really our whole focus. Obviously, the result ended up being totally different, you know, than what anybody ever imagined. But it was about how are we going to stay in it on offensive defense? And we felt like the defense was the

way for us to stay in the game. To be honest, like, we knew scoring on them was gonna be insane, insanely difficult, and so we felt like we had a very good defensive team that year, and our goal was pressure those guards as much as you can um and and not allow them to center the ball. I mean, that was kind of our whole, our whole thing. So you you felt like your defense was the way in which you'd win you you'd win the game, right, Yeah, So I felt like defense was our way to stay in the game.

Like I didn't want our guys like when you played a Virginia Virginia team, frustration sets in, you know how it is you were a player, Like if you're not scoring sometimes that that could impact the defense down. Yeah, your defense that breakdown. And so that was awful message to them, like we can't get seduced into an offensive game against them or get frustrated because our offens isn't going well. We have to guard every single possession like

it's the last one. And we we we we did some specific things relative to them and how they run that movie blocker and all that. We felt like we needed to pressure them. We had seen a lot of teams just back up, you know, and and not get

after them. We had seen a lot of teams not try to run them, you know as well, because they do a good job of getting back on defense and transition, and we I wanted our guys to take the opportunities early in transition if they were there, because you're not just gonna be able to hold the ball against them and move it around and get a great shot. Like sometimes the best shot you can get against them is early, and so I wanted our guys to try to do that and if they had it, let's roll with it.

But at the same time, don't take a bad We practice all week shooting against hands, you know, and pressure, because they're always gonna be there pretty much at front of you, and you're gonna have we practice well behind the line shooting threes because we knew, you know, those are the shots that that you can get against them. We were honest with our team about like, if you're gonna win this game, you're gonna have to outshoot them, and you're gonna have to keep them from shooting threes.

It can't just be take away the rim and then all of a sudden they're getting ten threes as well. Just like us. We're not gonna win with that, And so we had to take away their three, defend like crazy and rebound and we had to make threes, you know, layups basically. I mean that's really the gameplay wasn't was much more than that, Yeah, I mean like you also

spread amount, yeah, of course, yeah. I mean we changed our angles on our ball screens and all that we did set in middles you know, because they they're so well schooled, it's stepping out. We said, all flats. Um, you know that was that was kind of the you know, the game playing there. I think that's my I think that's one thing though that like you know, now a couple of years later, maybe you still don't get creditable.

Wasn't just because people go back, well they didn't have DeAndre Hunter, so you know, like no, you guys did some specific things that made it really way more difficult. You knew how because because they are they were And this is where I had a I had a long conversation with Tony like a week later, and I and and my my message to him was like you can't. You can't just do what you do and you have to try different things, play left hand. It's um, you know,

figure out a way. I mean, like, okay, Hunter gets hurt. What lineups had you tried all year long? You know, in in case, what if you got three fouls in the first half? You know, what if a kid what if a kid is sick? And uh and and what if a team knows what you do and designs and

as personnel to execute and make you chase him? So I think you don't to this day, I just we don't cover things the way I mean, I just wish there was like a college basketball matchup show where I go, like, it wasn't just that they made a bunch of threes, it was they did some things specifically because we're fascinating and that you should get credit for. Okay, so you get to the game. Um, games can be won and lost in layup lines. Question. Right when the guys started speaking,

they go home, they look good. We we we don't. Um, what did you when you looked your team in the eye? What did you see when you're standing in front of them? Yeah, I mean I saw I saw a bunch of guys that had never looked and that were including myself. You know that you know had an opportunity. You know, I had an opportunity, and I felt like there was a reason that we were in that building at that moment.

What that reason was, I wasn't quite sure. I wasn't I didn't necessarily think that we were gonna win the game going into that right. And while I'm giving that speech, but my speech to them prior to that game was a thankful one. I thank those guys for bringing me and my family back to Shark where I was let go. That was it, you know, I just said, look, you know this this you know, this business is extremely hard in a lot of ways. We all have our own stories, right.

Jared started at VCU with Shaka, didn't go well. He ends up at Robert Morris, stays there for half the year, then he lands at the U NBC kJ. You know, he gets let go at Texas A and m Corpus Christy and uh, you know, has to go to JUCO for a year, you know, uh, rehabilitates himself and then he doesn't have a Division one offer except for us and ends up there. Joe Sherburn had one D one offer, you know, and it was umb see, like you go around the room and it was just like a bunch

of overlooked guys. You know that it had that had a story. And I said, we're all here in this moment together. We've done this together, you know, at this time. Then you guys in particular have done this for me, and so I'm forever grateful, you know, for what you guys have done. Now let's go out there and just show everybody our passion and and and belief in one another. You know that we can compete with this team. And you know, I shed some tears, I'll be quite frank

with you. You know while I was giving that speech, and it was very emotional. Um, and that was, you know, not the first time I do that with my team, not all the time, but you know, I'm real and uh, you know, I think they appreciated that they understood the message and more than anything, they were ready. They knew they had an opportunity to make history, and so they wanted to go for it. And uh, you know, there were some bumps in that first half, but the defense

kept us okay. So so so and I remember I'm sitting there watching the game and I said, I went with a group of guys and I go, they got them, and they're like, it's like, Virginia is gonna kick their ass in the second half. You know how this goes? Right? Like they got I said, they said they can't guard them. Yeah, they can't. They're they're they're too quick. They can't guard the ball, you know. And the it's the it's the what we always learned. We try and tell kids all

the time. It's like, hey man, you want to get on the floor. Yeah, the first thing you have to be able to do is guard the basketball, right, And it's the best thing that they do in Virginia. And I felt like you had them spread out, they were kind of chasing. They were chasing yet and I was like, if they could just hit a couple, hit a couple of jump shots, you know, they just they can't. It's a bad matchup because you got there. You got their

big thirty feet from the basket chasing you around. And and um, what's the name of that big white kid that that Virginia had did a great name? Salt Jack, Salt Jack, salt right Jack. Salt is a great name.

But I've done their game, I think earlier in the year when they had played in um Deston, Florida and I and I loved him, and I was just like, yeah, but you know those tough twos, you know, back to the baths, get post up two is like, there's a reason analytics tell you those are a tough shot, and you guys are playing the post, right, I was like, I don't. I don't think Jack Salt can score twenty and I think that you guys can hit some threes. And the guys around like, watch this ship. They're gonna

you know, BC's gonna score ten in the second half. Okay, So come in there, you come in in half, okay. And the way it works is, hey, the the players run in and you meet your staff. What's your staff said? I think they were optimistic, you know, I mean they always get really good thoughts, and when we talked about offense first, and then we talked about the defense and just little little things that we need to pay attention to.

And so really halftime was about, you know, highlighting things that we tried to do going into the game to actually get them done. Uh in first half or did we not? I thought we did. You know, I felt like we were good on the glass. They got a couple of offensive rebounds, but we were pretty solid there. I think offensively you know. Pressure. Our pressure was was solid. Um. You know, they were able, they were able to just

get into the paint constantly on us, you know. Um. And I felt like our ability to navigate the screens like that was a big We work on that a ton alright, navigating defending that mover blocker because you know, you go as soon as you go the wrong way, they make you pay with the three R. And so our our goal was we we compared it to Tom Brady. If you let Tom Brady sit back and hide, get as the point guard and and just you know, see everything, he's gonna pick him with him heart. And so we said,

pressure the guy. I don't care who it is, if the big guy has it out top, if the point guard has it. Whoever that guy is that's going from the wing centering the ball, try to keep him on his side and just pressure the crap out of him just to disrupt the timing of their screening angles and to give the defender time to get through. And so we worked on that a ton, and I thought that was pretty successful for us. You know, we were always kind of there when they caught the ball. I mean,

that was the key. I don't care which lady you go, just be right there when you catch him, and um, you know, I thought that was a big key for us. And then offensively, our guys felt like, hey, we missed some shots out there. You know we can we can we can get some shots against them. We just got to knock him in. And you know, we got off to a good start right out of the right out of the gate out a halftime and uh, which was not an un uh something that I hadn't seen before

with this team. This team is you know, they've they've been tied at half and then come out and and and gone on runs, you know, big runs, you know, at times during the season. But I would also say it wasn't an unnatural position for Virginia. Either they've been tied or down one or up to plenty of times, you know, like stuff. For them, there was no reason for concern at that point. It was just, Hey, we're gonna win the game. You know, we're gonna figure it out.

So when did you know after? I mean I probably I probably knew that we had a a significant chance around that eight minute time out right in there, Like we had a we had a solid chance because we had gone up so so much, and I had seen our team. My job at that point was, hey, don't take the foot off the gas, because as soon as you take the foot off again, you start you start coughing the ball up. You know, they lay it up, you know, because they're gonna change the way that they're playing, like,

they're gonna come after you. They're gonna value more. They're gonna you're gonna hope that the rest don't call it. Uh, They're just gonna go for it. They're gonna shoot it quicker. Um, can we get the rebounds? You know, because they're shooting

it quicker like all those in Play Fallward. I think that's what I kept saying, Playfallward, taking when it's there, and uh, you know the guys ended up doing that, and and the the Again, the parts of the story that aren't told enough are it wasn't like you hit a miracle shot. Yeah right. It wasn't like some things that go you got a crazy call. It was a

no doubt, it was a blowout. What are those moments like as you're looking up and no, it's because I'll just and I know again, I understand you've been gracious for your time. My first game calling a game in

the n c A tournament. Second excuse me was um Southern against Glenzaga and and and Glenzaga end up losing the next game, uh to whitch Top, but it was tied or Southern was leading with four minutes to go, and I'm sitting there with Spirodidas and we're sitting there going holy shit, like and you know, Southern's got this incredible band, but it's in Salt Lake City and suddenly there's like sixteen thousand and Southern fans Like what going on? Right? Yeah?

So what what are those? What's that? What are those minutes? Like it's like five minutes ago, you're up fifteen on Virginia. No one's ever done before. You're kicking their ass. They're chasing you around, like what it's out of body experience? What? What is what? What? What? What is that? Like? I mean, honestly, you're coaching the game, Betwe mean, you know, it wasn't anything crazy. You know, like you're you're in the game.

You you're a player, like you've coached too. You know, it's like you're you're just trying to get to the end. You know, you're trying to do your best for your team to get hurry up. You're a nervous wreck. You're a nervous wreck. You're nervous that you know the fouls they're gonna start, because at the end of games like that, they started driving to the basket over and over it. I was worried, we're gonna stop the clock every time,

you know, with fouls, and they were gonna shoot. It was gonna be a parade in the free throw line. And so you know, I learned long ago Dad used to always start looking at that when he had leads. He'd started looking at the all right, what do I need to get to? All right, they can't get to you know what I mean from a number standpoint, And so that was why I just encouraged me to keep

keep trying to score. If it's there, you know, take it when it's there, because we were we were clearly shooting it well, so there was no reason to not not do that. But yeah, didn't it all hit me as soon as we we let that the clock clock go shot clock. We had a shock clock violation, and it was just like a wave of emotion. It was kind of like, Wow, this thing really happened. Who account?

What now? How do you even play the next? I mean, you know, I wrote on the board at the end of that game, I went there, I wrote zero and one, right, and I exed out the zero and I wrote one, and I said, you guys are the one. And then below that I wrote zero and zero, and I said, wouldn't it be a shame, all right if we were still thinking about being the one up here in this one and one? Yeah, one and one, and we didn't take advantage of the zero and zero the first sixteens opportunity?

All right, there's a responsibility that goes without And so let's all focus for the next two days and and do our best, you know, to to play our best, you know, give our best from a from a preparation standpoint, do our best with the distractions while still having fun with it, and and go for it. And the guys did that. You know. We were in the game. We couldn't score basket, but neither Kansas State, and so it

was a it was a knockdown drag out to the end. Um. I think we had eighteen chances, you know, to take the lead in that game, and we weren't able to do it. But one of the coolest moments for me was before the game ever started. You know, I'm in

the locker room and you know it is you'r. You talked to your team and then then go out, and I was in the locker room by myself, and you know, it was probably a minute and a half after they left where I could hear the entire arena go berserk, and I knew exactly what it was this crew that nobody cared about. They were going for them, and so that that made me happy without a doubt. Okay, so now we're a couple of years removed, and now you're you were the one seed, you were the big dog,

and you got upset. Yeah. Um, And the the problem with UNBC is you're not gonna get a chance to go back to the tournament because just that's just not the way the conference is you Yeah, he has there in the In the couple of days since you lost, has there been a moment of I should have taken one of those big jobs. No, not at all, because I love this you know, I love this place. You know, I love everything about it. You know, but I understand what it is. I understand how hard it is, you know,

at this level. Um, but you know this, this team, I told my team after we lost the other day, no one can ever take away you want a regular season championship. That's not easy to do like that hadn't been done here since two thous eight and even the team that went on to be Virginia didn't do that. And so they have a lot to be proud of, especially in a in a year where there were so many other obstacles outside of basketball that they had to navigate just to be able to have a chance act.

And so no, I'm thankful for the opportunity to coach you know BC. I love the school, I love the people here. Um, you know I understand. You know what it is. You have to win in March, you know, and that's what you sign up for. And the pressures of that, you know, it's it can it's so rewarding, but it can be heartbreaking at the same time, like what we're experiencing right now, and it's like your numb for two days. You know, you don't even want to

watch another game because you put so much into it. Um, But you know, it is what it is. That's that's why March Madness is March madness last thing. Yeah, will you secretly cheer against sixteen sees so you're the only you're the only one. My wife will? My wife definitely will. But no, I don't. I didn't want to say, what, Virginia's a one seat in Virginia's a one seat again. I know they won't be this year or that they were the other year. I'm definitely not cheering against them.

I don't want them to have experiencing they don't once it's plenty. What what was that experience like to watch them win the national championship just a year after you guys did what you did. No, it was tremendous. I mean it was. It was extremely exciting for me because you know, we were part of a part of their story, you know, and you know it's really neat. We had our own story, but they, you know, we were part of theirs as well, which were the two schools a

place where I grew up. You know, I'm forever connected to that, you know, which is pretty neat. And I know it wasn't a good memory, but it turned out to be a good memory for Virginia basketball and Virginia fans because it led them to a national championship, which is you know what it's all about. I can't tell you how appreciative by your time put up with some technical difficulties. I know you gotta go. Let's catch up in person very very soon. Thanks so much for taking

the time. I was, thank you, thanks for having me. My best to your family, same to you. Yeah, well, I knew you would appreciate it. It was long, it was thoughtful, and I would hope you would one download uh the podcast A download subscribed rate us write a review doesn't have to be about me. You can hate me, I don't hate you. Uh, right, a review, and I think that that helps us in somewhere or someport. But more than anything passed on to a friend, Like there's

some great tidbits about coaching, there's some great tidbits about life. Uh. And I think the passion that Ryan lives with the realness with how he coaches kids and how he's handled success and failure is nothing short of remarkable. I'm so glad he got a chance to tell that story at this time. Anybody can. It's like after when anybody can tell story after win? Man, you can't shut me up after win. What do you do after lunch Uh, there's more great ones to come. I'm so glad you downloaded

and hope you subscribe. You rate listen to Doug Gallet Show daily. Thanks so much for listening on Doug Galley. This is album m