Pt. 3: Ga. Tech HC Josh Pastner on Recruiting Violations, Bouncing Back,

of the son's game Game one. I'll give you one real quick thought though on these reviews. Okay, this is my thought. Look, you're not gonna do away with the reviews. You do need to put a clock on them, but you go to like a neutral corner. That's what you gotta do, is what you can bring out chairs if you wanted to sit down. I don't think you needed to sit down. But those five guys that are on the floor have to remain on the floor in an area on the opposite end of the court, on the

opposite side of the court from their benches. That's the only way to do it, because otherwise you grant these teams but time out that they didn't earn, that they didn't deserve. Simple put a clock on it, put him in a neutral corner from their bench. And if they want to talk about a play, that's fine, but you can't allow for a time out to come to be that wasn't called, that wasn't earned. All right, let's get

to Part three. We've heard from Josh Pastor if you missed the last two, about growing up in Houston, being part of that Arizona National Championship team early on in his his coaching days, and and and getting the job at Memphis and what all that entailed. In Part three, we talked about the accusations by a former friend that got him in hot water with the n c a A and caused an investigation. That's where we begin Part

three of our discussion with Josh Pastor. Take a listen, yea, what is it like to go through what you went through where somebody who you befriended and wanted to help turns on you. And you're somebody who and I mean, look, maybe I have the wool over my eyes, maybe I don't know, but I've always You've always struck me as somebody who just you just want to help people, just

enjoy people, interaction with people. But it goes through something where wait, I was trying to help you, and now you're trying to make me look like I'm a bad guy. Like what forget about the job stuff, forget about any of the other stuff at home with your wife, you personally, emotionally, what is that experience like for you? Yeah, you know, Doug, Look, I'm a just in general, I'm I'm a guy that that loves people. I'm a glass that's over I don't

look at the glasses half full. I look at us overflowing. I believe in positivity. Um, you know, I live by the thing when I say about how precious life is, like I tell people all the time, I'm about you know, like every literally every day is a gift. Every breath the gift, every heart beats a gift. Like I don't just say that and then and then and then go around,

not like I really believe that. Like I love life, Um, I know how precious things is, Like I like that, I know how precious Being a head coach is, Like I I don't take it for granted. There's not a day that goes by that I complain about one thing about my because I I love being a head coach and I know how precious. So I say all that to tell you that that look I mean and and I want to do good to people. I mean, I

love people. You're you know, and and and so when when when when when somebody who you felt what you were trying to do good tries to turn on you for for for for um, for reasons of of just you know, greed and just not for for bad things. You're you're you have a sense of like you know, of hurt anger just like how did you know? You're you just want to do the right thing? How do you how do you how do you process that? Hey? Did you go like to go to therapy books? Like

you just kind of keep piling through like that. That's a hard thing. It's a very hard thing. It's a very hard thing, you know, and your and your positivity gets tested. Um. And it's easier said than done, because it's easy to say, hey, just stay positive, um um. And that's easier said than done. But you you've gotta you know, I was, you know, you try to keep things in the best you can in perspective. And it's

again I say that easier said than done. I was very thankful that I've had great you know, I've had I've obviously my family has been unbelievable, but I've had great bosses who have been extremely supportive during some really tough times. And um but but I also, you know, I still and maybe it's just my character, of of my of just my DNA. I'm such an ultra positive guy that I that even in the worst of times, I've tried to find some positive out of things and

and it's just kind of how my mind works. Um. But but I will say, you know, you're more aware of things. Unfortunately, you get a little more aware when I say unfortunately, maybe you're you're a little more guy. You're a little more cautious before you're ready just to jump and answer that email or answer that text, or answer that phone too when somebody's needing some help. You know, you're a little more Okay, let me check this out first.

And so you know, beforehand, I was just whatever I can do to to to to help to to to to make someone feel better as a human being, if I can do that through basketball because of being a head coach, um, and and give them a ray of sunshine and a ray of hope and positivity and excitement and enthusiasm when they're going through some tough times. I look at like that. I that's a that's a great thing to be able to do. But because of that, I'm looking at of what I went through. I'm more

cautious now. I'm not so as quickly to just to say yes to someone who's saying they need help. I might need a little more checking, a little more careful on some things. And you learn, you live and learn.

I mean, you're just again, if I knew what I knew now, Doug, I would when I look back, you think, okay, you know, But but it happens to people, millions of people all the time where where people get hit by people, you know, of all kinds of different ways, and they look back and they said, I should have seen that at the time, but they just didn't see it, because

usually you're looking to see the goodness and things. Okay, uh, I don't want to I don't want to lament on all this stuff, but I do want to ask one question. You give me the clearest answer you can. Okay, this is all that matters to me. If somebody to say pastors that cheer, right, cheer. What would you response to, Well, I mean, look, I mean I can't worry what people think, but I really, you know, it's very important to me

that we do things the right way. You know that we follow the rules and and um and you do the very very best you can. I've really tried to create an incredible atmosphere of compliance um um, following the guidelines by the n c t A, the mission of the n c TA, the mission of our athletic departments, um and um and and part of that is is you know you're you're That's that's important to me. That's important to me to to be a rules guy, to to to to to follow. That's when when when this

stuff went down. The people I know who know you're like, dude, of all the guys, and I don't think the guys that do it the right way, like Josh, you be the guy that writes and and we're friends, but I can't tell you. I know intrigiately well about how you do what you do. But the way I the way I try and approach things is I just ask people that know and they're like, no way with Josh, right, Like I just don't. I don't. I don't see it.

And to me, here's here's the deal where I you cannot like the rules, okay, but there's a difference between breaking the rules and intentionally and then saying, well, you know, I don't like the rules, right. To me, it's go after the rules right and and try and generate the momentum which they're now obviously evolving and changing. Do you change somebody's grades or do like that? To me? Is it isn't no go right? Uh? Do you do? You just give a guy a bag of cash like that's

a that's a nogo? Like these are cheating things, bumps shoes, don't freaking care right like those are? Like are we some of the the workout stuff like you were talking about where they used to limit workout times, Like oh my god, are you kidding? Right? Um, so if if when you say, like, hey, look it's important we do it the right way, it's those basic things right that we're we're discussing, Like I don't we don't buy kids again to come to school, We don't change their grades

to get it right? Like those are the things that you are I mean, we we do the very best we can and even on the littlest thing stug, I mean, even on the little things. You know, I have a great relationship with our compliance department. Even when I was at Memphis as the head coach and and here a George, I've been, you know, being heavily involved with the with

our compliance department. You know, we're very transparent. Um. I mean, look, things can happen just inadvertently, you know, their mistakes can happen. But but we do the best we can to to making sure that even the littlest of rules or fallow, I'm not. I mean, look, we we've all I mean, it's just normal. You're gonna have um, you know, you're gonna you're gonna have minor um violations throughout. That's just

part of it. And that's and actually that's a healthy thing because if you catch it, you turn it in your report. That's part of running a program. You're gonna have little things. But what I would tell you is when the when when you know they went. When I got we got fully investigated and fully through, I wasn't even named and I wasn't named in anything in the in the n C two A report. When everything came out, there was no, I wasn't you know named. Uh, there

was no head coach control, there was no violation. Um, there was just you know, just you know, unfortunately, um, um, you know, uh, some things happened and and and we were fortunate that that that we had a good compliance uh and and and and we had a really good atmosphere of compliance. Unfortunately, just some you know things happened here and there, and that's just part of the world we live in. We're able to move forward from it, and and and and continued onward and upward with it

with our program. Okay, so you get the job. Was Josh already going there? Did you get Josh josh a Kogi was already signed? He was, so he didn't come to Georgia Tech yet. But Brian Gregory and his staff did a really nice job of finding him. I say it was a three pronged part. Um. Uh, josh A Kogi or Brian Gray during his staff did a great job of evaluating because he was not a highly leveled great to recruit. He wasn't a top hunter player, wasn't a top ten player in the state of Georgia. Um,

but he was. But he was a good player. So Brian Greag and his staff did a good job on the evaluation. Our staff did a really good job on developing him. He let don't don't skip. Okay, So you get the job? Yeah, okay, because I don't think people understand how this ship works, right and honestly I don't totally know how it works. Okay, So you're at Memphis, b G gets fired, you get the job, okay, Like while you're in route, are you like who do they have signed? Like when do you when do you get

to the All? Right? What are what are we working with here? Because, as as I've learned, and as you've kind of pointed out, when you're coaching a team, you're not you don't know about what's going on the A C C. You don't care. You're worried about your team, your kids, your program, and maybe your lead. That's it.

And Georgia Tech, as much as it's a great job at age school in a great city, like their stuff isn't in your kind of purview, Like that's you're you're in a tonnel, Okay, So you like are you on a private plane to go to the press conference and you're figuring out staff and roster, like how does it had it actually work? Yeah, So when I got the job in Memphis, I I went When I got the job at George Tich, I was in Memphis and then and then we fluted to Atlanta to do the press conference.

And UM, yes, you're you know, you're you're just trying to get your you know, you're grasping everything that's that's you know, your head around everything of when you take over. And there's a lot of going on. I mean, you got tons of phone calls. Obviously people wanted the job. You get the current staff there that just got you know, relieved of their duties, they obviously would like to stay on. You've got the current players, you got recruiting, um, the signees.

There's just a lot of people you got to meet. So there's just a lot of stuff to do, you know. And and I felt like a good job. You know, I didn't rush in anyone I hired. I took my time. Um, I was really running the program by myself for almost a month in a sense before I hired it, and when I really was slow moving on on on my hiring um and um, but but I ended up you know again, just like I did at Memphis had a

lot of really good coaches. I did the same thing at Georgia Tech hired a lot of really good coaches and um and so uh but I say all that to say that, UM, like, you gotta re you gotta re recruit these kids right now. The correct want them correct And you're like, well, he signed, so technically I take him, but I gotta go, like, O, you could come, but you might not play, Like for Josh specifically, how did you decide, like one, did you want him too? Did you have to fight to keep him right? Like?

What was that? Like? Yeah? I mean, look, I had some I had some opportunity of these, you know, with the guys when I met with them, and a couple of guys didn't stay the current guys. A couple of had ended up moved on, but thankfully majority and you know, stayed a lot of them state and and and they were seniors, they were going to be seniors. So we had some guys upper classroom guys. And then we had you know, the signings of the of the recruiting class and um and Josh a Kogi was one of them.

And so I had to go to his home and try to you know, and I didn't know. Job. I've never seen Josh play before me getting to the job. I mean, he wasn't like some highly level raids. Again, he paid the picture. What's it like? What's would tell me? Josh a koke home visit? You just get the job? Go? Well? Yeah, And and it took and it was about you know, it wasn't the first day or second day. It was a couple It was about a week later when I went to his home because there's just so much going on.

I went to his home and um and we you know, he has a beautiful family and um and they were really big about him going to Georgia Tech. His mom and dad based on based on academics. They did not have any they were not they didn't have a basketball field. They you know, they were all about academics. They didn't even know if the kid would ever play or if he was even any good. They had no clue. It

was academics, academics, academics and um. Um, you know, his high school coach, UM was in the meeting and he understood, you know, Josh has a chance to be a good player. And his brother, Josh's brother there who was who was a dentist. But again he he he thought, well maybe, but but again, academic academics was the number one thing for that family, and there wasn't even a talk about basketball, and of course, so we were talking about Georgia Tech.

But then I explained about my style and what I think I'd be good for Josh and um, you know, look, my style is not for everybody. And I tell everyone this. You know, I don't curse, um, I don't use any foul language. I'm very positive, I'm very demanding, and I high have high standards. But but and um, but but if so, I tell them you, look, if you if you need a coach that's gonna be in your grill and cursing at you to get you motivated. I'm not a good guy for that. Like I I'm I'm a

motor guy. I believe in motor and and and positive and like I'm gonna demand excellence from you. I'm gonna hold you. I'm gonna tell you the truth. But I'm not gonna play mind games. I'm not you know, I'm

very direct. What you see is what you get. I believe in like having a pep in your step, like being excited about life being excited about opportunities, but if you need someone to kind of curse that you and get underneath your skin by like you know, I said, I'm I'm I'm the wrong coach because I don't and I said, I'm gonna and and and so when I recruit guys, I tell them that, like I'm, I might

not be the guy for you. If that's if that's what you you know, and and and and if that's not what you want, um, that's okay and um and so if you don't have that internal drive, that self motivation, maybe I'm not the right this. I'm not gonna I'm gonna drive you to be excellent, but I'm gonna drive you to be excellent through a lot of positivity, through a lot of like you know, motor and and and and holding to a high standard, but doing in a

way of of with with with the ultimate level of respect. Um. And I think the family and appreciated that. So they signed off, as did Josh to play to say hey, let's let's continue to add. But he wasn't a highly right. It wasn't like a bunch of schools were trying to get him. So how long after you had him where you're like I thought, after the first, after the after, after the summer, I told our staff, I think he by his junior year, he could be all a C C by his junior year. And that's what ended up

hurting what what what? What? Actually, you know, we won the a CEC this past season. But what hurt us um and he getting there even quicker was I did not plan and for josh leaving after a sophomore He was tremendous for us for two years. I thought he'd he a third year, and I thought after his third year he'd probably good enough to go after I after especially after his freshman year. But I said he'd be I told our stelf after his junior even all a C C. Well, look is after a sophomore year, he was.

He was. He was a twentieth pick in the draft. And we probably that in my third year in the program, we took a little step backwards because of the fact that I didn't prepare accordingly for Joshua Koge leaving after a sophomore year. And if you look, because we had a great my first year. We had a great first year. You know, we got we you know we we we did some things that not been done in Georgia Tech.

The second year we were up and down. But I knew, because we had lost a lot of seniors, I knew second year was gonna and I said this earlier, you know, in our in our in our first episode, that it was gonna be that that that second year is usually the hardest year because you're new. So I knew. I thought the third year we were gonna be we were gonna be really good. I thought, I thought the third year,

we're gonna start making the move. But because Josh left, that ended up hurting us in took us a step back. And then when he told us he was not coming back, it was too late in the recruit to sign and I I couldn't get anyone. And then now, so we had some ups and downs at third year. But then I will tell you our fourth year and fifth year.

In the last two years here we have done some things that Georgia Tech that has not been done one in the history of Georgia Tech, hadn't been done in over thirty years, hadn't been done things in fifteen years, and over a day. I mean I could just round, I could just start running off a bunch of stats. The point is is it took us probably the fourth

and fifth year to do that. It would have probably happened a year earlier year if Josh had not left us, and I would have been more prepared for Josh leaping after junior than the sophomore year. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app search f s R

to listen live. UM Jose Albruno. First time you saw him was when I saw him um in in um in the summer or uh AU basketball after I got the job, and you know, and my assistant and you know again I've had great, great assistant coaches. UM and to VARs Hard he was now the head coach at Loyal of Maryland. UM brought me to see him and he had he was at Georgetown prior to me hiring him here at Georgia Tech. But he UM, he told me about Jose Alvarado and he says, coach of tennis kid.

And you know, of course when you watch Jose, he's small, you know, and there's a lot of things. He wasn't overly quick. Um. I had a lot of people tell me from New York like, coach, are you sure you know? Because I and I kind of I liked him. I went, but I was, you know, as he but he would tell me he's not you know because at the time he's a two star, three star guy. But he's you know,

but he's been around winning. He won in high school, he wont in a U ball and and and what was interesting is had so many people tell me I'm not so sure he's good enough, like because he's small, he's not quick, he can't do this. Coach, you're in the a c C. You're in the A c C. Well. I remember in a Sunday morning game in Las Vegas.

It was eight am game. His team had a bunch of really good players here and and they were playing eight and it was I was in the you know, they had some high level guys and they didn't feel like it was a long summer. I could tell they were ready to go home. Eight you always like I had this. I had a pod with Jamal Thomas right

and we have part two coming out as well. And Jamal was on the GAU shows and he had him Sham God and Stephan Marbury and they lost in the when it was it used to be just one big term. Remember the Nike Nike on John Ferrell's and everybody say like, you don't play New York team playing at eight am because they just got in at four am, right, And so you're painting the picture perfectly, kind of marrying our two podcasts. Right, So it's eight am. Do you remember

what high school? What Jim time? Yeah, it was, it was that it was at Durrang, It was at Gorman, yeah, and um um and I remember and um I was there and it was eight am. There's not a lot of people in the in and they didn't feel like playing, but other than one guy, and that was Josie Alvarado, And Josie Alvarado got into these guys in his own teammates face because they weren't playing hard. They weren't and

I and I mean, and it didn't matter. He wanted to win so bad, like so bad, it didn't matter because along winning matter to him more than breathing literally, And I saw that, I was like, I have to have this kid, because you know why. I in my mind and my vision, I said, when we line up for the national anthem and We're playing Duke North Carolina Sarracuseta, and they have all these McDonald's, all Americans and the best players in the country. And you're done with warm

ups and the sweats coming down. Jose Alvarado is gonna look across the line there on the other side of the free throw line and be like, man, I'm going right for your juggler, Vein, I'm going right at you. I'm not I don't care about your accuate. I'm gonna play with such an edge and a chip. There was no fear with him. He had. He wanted to go compete against those guys and didn't care about the name on their jersey or anything, or the name on the back of the jersey of the opponent. He was going

right at him. And I said, I've got to have that guy. And in order for us to be successful at Georgia Tech, we need I needed some guys with some chips and edges on their shoulders. And Jose set the tone for us on that um you know and um and and he's been an incredible guard during this time here. He I said that, and let me just say this, the year before when he got there, my first year, like I had a great guard. His dad's a head coach um now at Eastern Michigan, Josh heath stand.

He says, Dad, he was a hard nose playing got Quentin Stevens. I had this kid who would not This is a this is an incredible story, honest to God, true story. I'll go back to Jose. Let me just say this story. I know we're running, but so i'm we're have we have the pro These the guys the programs in Okay, it's called the Program. They're they're military guys. They come in and it's a it's you know, they put something. It's like a thirty six hour deal. They

put you through some things. It's kind of team building. And Quentin Stevens, you know, this was the greatest thing that happened to Quentin Stevens. And he'll tell you. So we're there and people always say Quentin's you know, it wasn't real tough and just you know, it wasn't a tough, hard nosed player and this and that. So we're in this preseason thing in September at the program and these two his neatness is his Navy seal in this marine.

They're they're going to put us through the things, said, can anyone not go through the um the training? Quentin Stevens raises his hands and I'm like, man, they all told me when I got the driver, this guy has got a lot of know it's not tough and you know, once you get out of things. He raised his hand, he's and so he stands up and Quentin's a phenomenal young man and he says, yeah, my big toes bothering me. And he was like, you know, and what he did, he had a big toe deal. You know, big toes

bothering him. And so the marine and the seals, okay, they weren't gonna make him do anything. I could see that kind of like I could see the marine the guy was like, you know, I mean this guy, this marine guy was like he was he had getting like he he he was telling stories where he like he

enjoyed like wrestling with like lions and tiger. He was doing like it was just you know, it was great and so like he did things like that on his spare time, like he want to go, and like, so we're walking out, I'm walking with Quinton the guy and he grabs Quintin says, hey, let me just tell you something, dude. I just gotta tell you this, because I was on the battlefield and I had a teammate who got his who got snipered and his entire leg got blown off.

And the guy is laying there his legs blown off, and his legs like you know, you know, ten fifteen feet away from his body. He's getting shot at while he's bleeding out. He he scrambles to his gun without a leg and he starts pick him his gun and shooting back at the people to to to to help his teammates, to give them cover. He was. And so the marine turns and don't you ever tell me that your big toes bothering you and you can't perform um? I mean, And the guy's eyes were like you should

have seen his eyes. He was so locked in when he was telling Quintin this. I'm just telling you this. Quentin like looked at him. He performed the entire thing. Quentin Stephens became. He he was. He was the fifth the best fifty fifty ball and and defensive rebounder for in the A c C that year. He played so hard every pos you've ever seen those players or Dennis Rodman like lanes out that that was Quentin. He gave

his body like you wouldn't believe. He had more toughness of rebounds, getting hit dot flipping in the air to get balls. And it was all because of what that marine told him. It changed his mindset. And I was so proud of Quinn. He helped us win so many games. But because because of that, that instant changed his his

trajectory of his career, and so he was. But I say that going back to Jose Alvarado, and I'm so proud of when I love he's such an incredible but he won us so many games because of how hard he played. But and a guy's like Josh Heath the same way, Corey, I just kid coming off the bench, Corey Hayward Man, this kid played so hard, so hard it was incredible. And Josh Akoge is a hard playing guy. You know, he his his Twitter handles NonStop, you know which,

he is a high motor. But Jose Alvarado I sail that to say, I believe Jose Alvarado is the greatest fifty fifty ball guy in Georgia, tech and U and here and and then's the reason he's the two time all time back to back years led him and led the a SEC and steels. The only the player ever do that was Chris paul a SEC Defensive Player of the Year. The guy was tough as nails and worked.

Aren't Again I understand here in the bottom line business, Okay, right, I understand, like you're a nice human being and you treat people well, and you're having an amazing life because of those things, and and and you're judge based on wins and losses. But you talk about a kid who had reputations being a little soft and he becomes this incredible teammate and hard playing dude, Like, isn't that kind

of what it's all about? Like didn't that Like that's like that's really what what the what the job is supposed to be. And again I under and and generally if those guys change from boys to men, if they do, you're gonna win more games because of it. But like, isn't that the core of what you're doing, right is teaching stuffing because that those lessons, Like that's why I think.

I mean, I know there's there's medical sales people that they love to hire athletes because most athletes, like you're not gonna be good unless you get up and work out on days you don't want to work out, right, unless you've dealt with the that you gotta get up and get in practice. No, it's gonna suck because you guys just lost the game you should have won. Like, those are the things that help you for the rest

of your life. And I would, I do think that we sometimes get lost in what is this actually all about? That's what it's about. Well, and that's where you're you're you know the the mission of the n C two A. Yes, do you got you want to win? Who doesn't want to win? That's what's great about sports. It's the best reality of the best reality TV show because you don't know the outcome. It's what makes the n C Double

A tournament great, what makes just college athletics great. Um, But that's what's the mission of the n C two A. That's the mission of of college, of high school, whatever it may be. The mission is to help the the the young person and to help the student. Yes, as coaches, we all get paid a lot of money. We do have responsibilities to to to have success on the court

because that helps everything. Um. But but as a coach, One of the great satisfactions is is when you go to graduation and you see the guys walk across the straight age and graduate and knowing that you know, um, you know, four years because like like Georgia Tech, they ain't no hiding majors in Georgia Tech, No no question and and and so and and and um you know.

And when I was like, I was having like like at Memphis and and I feel like you might have this feeling that why you feel so close to Eddie coach Sutton, um, you know, and and just because you know, like when I was at MEMPS, I had some guys who maybe had you know, had like a second chance, and they had an opportunity where where where they they you know, they had some struggles early and I could see, man that the time, you know, I invested to see

these guys change their life. Yes, I wanted to win and help them basketball, but through basketball gave me such satisfaction see them to to to understand about discipline and

opportunities to really change their life. Or maybe they had a previous mistake or they had some tough issues prior to and then you see them change their life and then become you know married and have you know, kids are working and doing great things and and because of basketball, maybe because of a coach or because of environment allowed him to change and change their trajectory of their life.

And and Darryl Darryl Walker, Darryl Walker tells anybody who listen that he would end up on the street dead if not for coach set in Arkansas like you, he would have And um, you know, I just that that's what in many ways we we get lost in the so many things that don't matter. And what does matter is that having and that's where the power. That's where

the power of a coach can come in. And how and and and and and when you really look at it, because you know, look but see I think and again I understand that Like if you say, I don't like the transfer portal and all these things as a coach, and you've got to take kind of you gotta do it right. But I think the transfer thing hurts it, Like I just the ability to go and and not have to sit out like Okay, why didn't you play him? Well, maybe I didn't play him because he didn't practice herd.

He just didn't or he wasn't doing what he was all these little things I wanted him to do he didn't do, and so I can't reward him with playing time, and what happens. I'm trying to coach the kid. He can't coach him if there's no punishment for leaving. And people you hear the word punishment and you're like, wow,

that's just unfair. You're you're doing like, no, that's there's a there's a process then, right, and if you trust the person in the process and trust that by year three and four they'll be a grown up and they come in and I just I think we're ruining that with with some of the recent policies which are so in favor of the player that it takes away the ability for the coach to actually do his job. Yeah you know, um, well look, I mean the recording a

transfer portal doug um um. You know that that that has you because lot of people ask me about it. You know that train has left the station is not going back, no question, it's it's so so you're gonna have to adapt to that, just like you're gonna have to adapt to the n I L name image likeness. The college athletics has changed and it will continue to change, and we'll see how the n i L changes things.

Will see how you know, the transfer portal has changed things obviously, and Doug your you know, you can't complain about it or be upset. You're you're you have to be flexible. You've got to be able to adapt. You've got to be willing to change, because if not, you'll get left behind because those things have Like the train is left the station, whether people agree or disagree with it, it's not going backwards. Right, Um, what was it like?

Like you take the Georgia Tech job and I think that many people is like he just had to take a job because he because because the Memphis job at Gonsdale right to go from that place? Will you take a job if you're like, hey, george Tech has got great history, but you ain't when there you know you got it? Ain't it ain't just the old days that you got Duke from Caroline. You got Duke, you got Caroline, Virginia just wont to ask the championship Syracuse Louisville, right,

like real unbelievable, unbelievable. I don't even get into the other Florida state right to go from taking the job winning thirteen games in year two to winning the a c C. What is that feeling like? Yeah, no, it was an incredible First of all, again, all you know, it's just three things. One, thank god I had great bosses, you know who one gave me an opportunity and also

stuck by me. Um, So you know, a mix of of of of at the time, you know, um um to get hired, and then and then to be able to continue to to see that, just to see it all the way through to I've had great assistant coaches and great staffs, that's what you interesting. And then three and most importantly, and you can't do it. I'm is We've had great um young men, and and I've been

very fortunate on that. But Doug um, Yeah, to win the a c C. And and and you look back because you know when I took over Memphis, I took it over. I've seen it from both spectrums. I mean I've seen a lot. I've been through a lot. And um see something where you're taking over at the very highest of high levels and then you're taking something over where you're you're kind of starting from the ground zero to build it up. I've seen it from both directions.

But to say you've you've done it both ways, you've been successful. You know, we've had good success in both ways, and then to uh to too in the end to win the a c C Championship. Um, it's it's beyond to to you know. You as time has evolved going into this summer, you look back and say, man, that's

just an amazing accomplishment in this league. And because I remember, and I got a little flak for this, and and I understand looking back, why why I could get flat After my first year we finished eleven and we had one, we were eight and or we were nine and eleven in the league. Excuse me, eight and ten in the league. And I was like, wow, I mean eight wins in

this league. And I was like, I don't know if we'll get the eight wins again, I don't know if we'll get I mean we might not be we might not get you know, hard is to get to eight. And I would say we should have to get eight wins in this league. And then I remember and some people saying, well, how could you say? I was like, yeah, I probably shouldn't have said that, but I was. I

said it because I knew how hard. It was to get eight wins and then to go back and and and the back to back years here to finish you know, uh in the top five in both years, and and to have the wins. You know, it was it was the first time in over thirty years for Georgia Tech to have back to back winning records in a CEC play.

I mean it's been a long time back. I mean this year we set the record for the most consecutive a CC home wins UM, first time in the history to have back to back double digit a c C wins or yeah, over five hundred UM. And so we've had We've had a lot, you know, obviously over a decade, get back to the tournament over you know, twenty years, twenty three years, you know, to win a UM for

twenty eight years, to win the SEC TUCH Championship. So um, you know, there's just there's been a lot of great things, and you know, the the challenge can you try to sustain that because this is the monster and it's what's so what's that that's the next question. Yeah, what's realistic? Right?

Because you lose, you do not only lose two times Deals Leader, Defense Player of the Year, but he's befour years starting a point guard and when Georgie Tech has been great and this is why I almost went there point guard you I mean, unbelievable of point guards. But like this is a hard landscape. Now. The good thing is coach k last year at Duke right North Carolina will see whether there's turn over there, you know, the league. There's gonna be some there, some changing, some evolution of

some of these programs. There's youn me some change, like for John's hire, like you think filing John Caliberias at Memphis, Like that's to try and following Mike she yees can't do? Good luck bud um So okay. With with that in mind, what is the plan in terms of sustainability and and the realistic kind of plan in terms of sustainability? You know, um, look, you want to you want to sustain and keep it at the highest of high levels that you can and and and and let me just say this, there's multiple

blue bloods. That's what makes this leak so amazing. Makes blue blood you know, I Carolina, Louisville, Syracuse. I consider Virginia blue blood. You know when you think about it, from what Tony Bennett has done. I mean it's it's off the charts. What what what? What Florida State has done? What Leonard Hamilton has done? I know they you know, I mean, I mean over the last decade, look at his success, you know. I mean I could go on on. I mean, heck, Mike Gray is the winning is coaching

his story of Notre Dame, um um. You know, look Jim larinege at Miami, I mean, you know, think about it. You don't. You don't have to tell me in the league. So I don't know what plan now, what's the realistic? I could go on about multiple more coaches in this league, like you sound like Dick oh a brain and well, no, the coaches in this like I get it. The coaches

in this league are all all coaches. But so with all the coaches in this league are amazing and and but I will say the reality moving forward of really, you know, you're you're you want to compete and challenge for the you know, for the a c C regular season and tournament championships. That's what you want to do.

But we're all striving for that. Does it happen? I mean that's gonna be the you know that We're we're gonna do all we can to try to continue into that into that ap new But I know it's not easy. I know how hard it is and the challenge it is. But we're up for the challenge. We'll see if we can continue to moving forward. I believe we can. But we're gonna have to get it done on the floor, you know, Doug, you gotta get a little lucky. You

gotta you knock on what. You gotta stay healthy. You gotta continue to recruit well and continue to develop, and and you're gonna have to. You know, it's a it's a it's a maker miss game. It's a fine line. You gotta put the ball in the basket. Yeah, Yeah, I know what I mean. It's it's gonna be. It's giving incredible. Um, you win the a SEC. You've done this incredible job at Georgia Tech. But it didn't feel

like you got a shot at Arizona. And like, I'm that kind of saw it coming because of the other stuff, right, But I mean, that had to be your dream job. And it's not like you have im proven yourself, like you win thirty games in Memphis, you in the a SEC at Georgia Tech. Okay, and again, please please mind anybody a Georgie Tech. I wanted to go to jo Detech, like we could do a pod on what happened with Georgia Tech when I transferred out out of Notre Dame.

So I love and respect your Tech and think it's an amazing place. But to win the A c C is an amazing accomplishment. Amazing, But to not really get deep into the Arizona job, how do you how do you process that one emotionally? Well, let me just say this, Um, I mean, look, I love my time at Arizona You kidding me? I mean I was there for thirteen years as a player, staff member, assistant coach par a team that won the national championship. Some of my best friends

are my teammates and I and they. I mean I loved I love Tucson. I loved everything about it. I mean, you know you're I could listen you guys. You don't have to go on. Just okay, so so I but but no, But I say all that to say that I've been I haven't been there in a long time. And so we finished. Let me think, So, okay, I understand, but but let me just say this, but I draw them up. I understand and and and I love Arizona

and I always have it, you know. But at the but I also have a you know there was as time as evolved, I just kept it like I recognize, man, I'm at Georgia Tech. I'm I'm I'm in a great position. I'm in the a c C. Let me let me finish your an emotional human being, and truth be told, you're a very normal human being, right, you have positivity. But when you're like, oh, I gotta do here, you know what I mean? And it's and and look, I I wish nothing but success for tom. Tommy has been

good to me. But you hired a guy with no Arizona ties, never called a time out before, and you had a guy who went there, played there one last champiship coach there just in the A c C. And like that has to on some level like piss y'af like disappointed, like you had to there. There has to be something other than I haven't been there a long time and it's changed a lot. I know. I Look, I haven't lived in Oklahoma in twenty years or whatever. Okay,

and Mike has been incredible to me, incredible. Hey, and I interviewed there and they give it to him and I was like, dude, that one that hurts, right, it hurts, and he's been great, like I have no It was like, I think I want my boyten to succeed, just like you want Tommy to succeed. Right, Nobody wants to mon to be shitty. Nobody. You want your own mother to be good. So they go like, hey, you're good. Now. Wait,

remember back we won the national championship. But how do you how do you deal with with that emotionally and mentally that you didn't get what anybody would consider a fair shape. Well, let me just say this first of all, and um one is you look at the Arizona Uh, former players like and and and and and I've known Tommy Lloyd for a long time. He's at you know, he's gonna do a great job at Arizona. He did an incredible job with Mark Few Gonzaga. Um Uh, he's

gonna have tremendous success. Um. You know, Jack Murphy Stick is there with him, Jason Terry's with him. He's going to be extremely successful there. Um. So you know that's just part of the job people. You know, when you when presidents and a d S higher, they have someone and that's just part of the profession. And Tommy Lloyd's gonna be great. But I'd also say take me out of it, like I as an Arizona guy, but no, it has an Arizona guy. Like I'm just saying that.

I know that. You know, Look, you had Steve Kerr, who's you know, gonna be in the Hall of Fame for coaching. You got Luke Walton, one of the you know best coaches, Damon Stodomeyer, you know who's you know. So I wasn't thinking me during that time. Yes, I know, I've had some success both at Memphis and Georgia Tech Um and so I again keeping things in in perspective, Doug, I mean so so I I always I felt all along that um that it was probably gonna be a

guy like Damon or Luke Walton. And I obviously Luke and Steve kerb probably didn't want to come back to college. But obviously what Damon's done at Pacific. But that's just part of the that's part of college athletics. A president and an athletic director, you know, they're gonna you know, they might feel comfortable so and they might have a vision with someone else. That's just part of it. That's how things work. Listen. I could say the same thing about when I got the job at Memphis, or even

got the job at Georgia Tech. People could be saying those are part of it. I get it, um and um and and and and so. In that whole time, I understand what you're saying. But I also had a perspective that I'm in the A c. C. And that Georgia Tech. I love atlant I'm in a great spot.

And the whole time I was really thinking, you know, again, like I said, whether they hired Tommy Lawyer, and I was thinking, maybe, you know, Damon Stole to Myron Man, he's been so good at Pacific, or obviously Steve Kurrent, Luke Walton probably weren't gonna leave the NBA. But David Stottmeyer has done a great job. But but Tommy Lloyd is gonna do a great job. I mean, I've known tom he's been I mean, look at Gonzagua. You can't

you can't deny their success. They've been extremely successful and and and part of that reason they've been that successful because of Tommy Lloyd. Okay, two more and I gotta go, I gotta go to okay um first one is recruiting the super elite guys right the now. It's one of the things Jay Wright used to talk about this all the time, back when the first time I went to the phone four they had the number one recruiting class and then they were bad, and then he said, they

come up with this. Okay, G's right, are kind of guys. You gotta recruit your kind of guys. Now, you've had success at Georgia Tech and you're in Atlanta where there's dudes. Plus, George Teck is always recruited New York City. Well, Jose is from New York City. You have connections everywhere. How do you manage that? With success, you can get into homes that you couldn't get into previously. Yet you might recruit you might not like Josh is the kind of guy that Georgia Tech has to get in order to

be sustained success. Right, a little under the radar, academic minded and comes in and just becomes a great player. Right. Doesn't mean that you can't take a higher level, But how do you balance out the do I go after the top fifty, top kids that have to play right away, and it's harder to win with them right away versus the guys that are more your kind of guys that you've been successful with at Georgia Tech. Well, look, Doug,

I think it's part of it is UM. You know. I, as we talked about previously, a lot of it's evaluation. You gotta do a great job evaluating UM, and then you gotta do at Georgia Tech. You gotta do a great job of player development. UM. That's important to us. We spend a lot of time on that and and guys better because they're probably not going to get the guy that's instantly ready to to go right to the NBA.

So I think you've got to do it. You've got to really And I've heard coaches speak about this when they've had success, they may be tried to go in a different direction than what's got them successful and it's ended up backfiring on them. So I think we've got to stay to who we are, and we understand who we are at Georgia Tech. UM, I you know, with what makes us as as our athletic director likes to say kind of the secret sauce of of what makes

us UM, what makes Georgia Tech special. And we've got to continue staying in that UM, in that realm and UM and we've got to continue doing that and uh and so keeping keeping discipline, keeping focus. Look, we all want to get the best players we can get. Who doesn't UM, But it's finding the right fit. And I think just because you're having success, yes, more doors open for you for for student athletes, but that doesn't mean it's the right fit for the program or were the

right fit for them, vice versa. So I think staying disciplined. And you've heard many programs when they've had great success, they've gone away from what's made them successful and it's end up backfiring on them. So I think us staying the course on who we are and what we're about and what's important to me and us as a staff in a program, we gotta stay in that, in that in that, in that direction. The face mask, who who's who is your wife? Who gave you the face mask? Well,

the face shield. What happened was was I was struggling coaching with the face with the with the mask, because you just took it on and off all the time, and I felt like when I was yelling, you know, I was yelling at the guys through the face mask when they understanding, they couldn't understand me. They couldn't see my facial expressions. And then three, I felt like I

was suffocating, you know. And so it was just so I said, I can't it's hard for me to coach and this, so I had to use the face shield. I didn't feel like I was, you know, and you didn't feel like you're a suffocating because they're you know, two, they could see your facial expres missions. And three, um um, it was just you know, I wasn't touching it. How many times would you see coaches with the mask touching your face all the time, on and off, on and

off with the face shield. Yeah, I lifted up a few times, but the majority of time I kept it down and it and it was just became one of those things. You know, people are calling me the welder because I looked and I told people, please don't call me the welder. It's it's totally disrespectful to the to that profession. I can't even change a lightbulb for crying out loud. So I felt awful for anyone that's a true welder. People are calling me a dentist, you know,

because the dentist. Whereas that I says, please don't. I say, these dentists go to school for eight years to become a dentist. You know. I said, that's not fair to the dentist. I said, you know, I said, I feel awful for the dentists that they're they're comparing me to a dentist. So I was being called all kinds of different names. But I like the face shield. It was it was simple, it was easy and um and if we have to wear mask again next year, I'll wear

the face shield again. I don't foresee us having to do that, but if we were, if we were mandated to do so, I'd be wearing the face shield again. And you've gotten a haircut between part one and part two, by the way, I did I have gotten during the season. I've gotten zero haircut because I was just trying to you know, I don't want to have any issue where it could have got possibly contracted COVID, so I really,

you know. And then and then after seeing I got a haircut which was in March and I just got a haircut just recently, so it's been about a three month window, three to four months I can go and I didn't get a little while, but I had to get a haircut. It was you had that you had the jufro going like, yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was. It was Jonah Jonah Hill level. It was getting wild. There was no doubt about it. Um. Okay,

So this was actually the last question. One thing that you had to do or you did during the pandemic did during COVID with all these protocols, are you like, you know what, I think I'm gonna do this even when the world opens back up, the restrictions are going away, God willing will be out of it. But there are some like working at work from home a bunch these things for you. One thing that you you did during COVID that you're going to try and continue to do that. Um,

what is the what was the expression? It's necessity is the mother of all invention. That necessity became the invention. I can just you know, there's three things just top off my head. Number one is, you know I used to be a big meeting guy to to make sure that we met as a staff to be organized. So we need to all be in the office to meet.

What time did you used to always meet? I mean weally met, right, you know, maybe be about like noon or you know, like a let's gave us time in the morning to watch the previous day's practice or the you know, to kind of get our thoughts together and do it. So we're about eleven thirty noon, we would meet and then and just to kind of be organized

going into the day of practice. You know. But but you know from this we've met a lot through Zoom or Microsoft team, like we don't have with meetings now, like hey, let's just get on a team's call, Like we don't have to all be in the office to meet so we can get accomplished. That's one. Two. We don't need to be in the film room, um, to all close together to watch film. We did film all year long on our in the in the gym and are and sitting in the stands, spread out with a bit.

We just rolled in a big TV and we just had space to me. I think we'll just continue to do that. I like that better, you know, I mean instead of being all you know, uh, right next to each other in a smaller film room. And three. Um, I hope we continue this. I don't see and nothing against sportsmanship because I think sportsmanship is so important. But you know, I think we should keep fist bumping or elbow bumping before the games. Um, and even after the games?

Is there necessary to continue to shake hand? You know, I know that we're going against each other, tell me, tell me why? But because I yes, we all talked about COVID, but let's talk about colds and flues and strep through oats and sore throats and you know all kinds of other stuff that not that, not that you're not the some guys are anti handshake because you know the idea of fight happening or no, not that I know nothing with that. I was thinking more more germ wise. No,

it's smart. I mean, like, look, nobody got the flue this year. Like no, I mean, I mean, I mean, I'm just thinking more health and safety. And people said Willis Wilson. Willis Wilson comes back, and Willis Wilson, Yeah, what's the difference. They're saying, Well, what's the difference of you know, you're banging against each other. Yeah, I get that.

But sometimes when you're going, you know, your hand, everyone's shaking the hands after and then all of the stud hugg touching the face, you know, and then you touch the face and that and you and what we've all learned that's very true. That's how a lot of things get transmitted. Of Again, we're not not just COVID, but colds and flues and and that can maybe how to eliminate some of those things, and so that that those

are some things. So I'm more cautious about that, Like I've looked about that, Like, um, you know, even on the road, we need to have everyone certain, you know, in a in a when we have a buffet. I like the fact that year we had one server wearing gloves. None of our players could touch the things the person served the food to them because that way we all weren't touching the handles. Um I I thought that was smart.

I mean, how about there's a lot of things that I think we could learn from this to maybe continue to keep us healthier moving forward, to avoid little things that you know, because look, COVID is a big thing, but little things of like nobody likes to get a cold or sore throat or signus headache or things or that, because but it's it's also it goes hand in hand with the meetings, right, Like you're you're being smarter about your time, being smart about your health, like like really

smart people look back at things and you're like, look, overall, it sucked, right, sucked, but you know early on you've got more time with your kids than you ever had before. Yeah. So it's it's little things, really, right, Like that's it's those little things and it's not any It's not different from learning from bad seasons or learning from good seasons, learning from jobs that didn't work out, being being really really smart about it. Um okay, this this officially becomes

the last one. Where do you see yourself in five years? Well, Doug, I love my job. And I'm not just saying that. I mean if you as I love what I do. I have tremendous enthusiasm, excitement, um, passion, um. I love being around people. UM. I love Georgia Tech. I I love the people I work for and to work with and and everyone in the athletic department. I love Atlanta. I'm also a realist. I know you you know there's

you know can you ever stay somewhere so long. I mean, I get all that, but for five for me, I hope I can continue to be a head coach as long as the Good Lord allows and the athletic directors of schools allowed me to continue to be a head coach. I I love, I love being I love doing what I do, and so I hope in five years i'm

whether it's Georgia Tech, I hope this Georgia Tech. I really do that means we've had some good success or elsewhere that I'm still I want to continue to be a head coach as long as I can UM because I love my I hope I can be a head coach when I'm seventy five and I and I don't want to be a guy that's can. I hope I'm how long that is. I hope that means you've been a head coach in thirty one, like you be behind character, and I hope that's the case. I would like that

to be the case, and I really I can. I love what I do and I'm forty three now, if I could get another thirty years as a head coach, or go to seventy five, go another thirty two years. It would be It would be really cool. I would have no I I really enjoy what I do. Now, you want to beat Coach K. Last time you playing Coach K. That would be very cool. That would be cool too. That would be cool. I hope that. I hope we can get a lot of wins this upcoming

season or in year five. We've had a lot of wins going five years and now we've had a lot of wins and some more ACC championships too. That would you also would be cool too. You've been more than generous with your time. I really appreciate it. Hopefully I'll see it Peach Jam. In the meantime, have a great time. Thanks for joining us. Thanks Doug, all right, my thanks to Josh Pastor. I thought that was as deep and thorough as anybody can be on the entirety of their careers.

Pretty awesome stuff. Remember the Doug got Leap shows daily three to six Eastern time, twelve to three Pacific, Fox Sports Radio, I Heart Radio app or in Sirius XM to seventeen or two oh three. In the meantime, continue listening, Tell a friend, download, subscribe, rate, write a review. I'm Doug gotlick. This is all ball.