Pt. 2 SEC Network Analyst & Former NBA Guard Jon Sundvold on College Mobility Era, Draft Night, '80's Sonics, NBA Survival Lessons

b A and calling it quits in the NBA. Before we get to that, I'll give you some quick thoughts on a couple of teams that I've gotten a chance to see in person. I'm blown away by Kentucky's transition game on offense and having seen them against Auburn and seeing him against A and M, and then see him against Kansas, who they blew out. I think the one thing that teams have to realize, and most have, is you have to press them to slow him down, because man,

you get Wheeler going full head of steam. If not he throws the ball ahead, they gets you back pedaling. They're so skilled, so athletics, so smart and talented. That's a really good team. You have to make them a half court team if you want to beat him. Bill self tries some triangle to that didn't really work. The zone was relatively effective, man and man was not really effective, but mostly because they struggled to get back in transition.

You know, it's one of those things where I do think that John cal Perry may not be the like best excello coach of all time, but he's definitely a very good coach. There's a lot of things he does really well, and he's changed and evolved, and this team is not just good and talented, they're very good and very well coached. As for Kansas, I still think, and of course when I'm recording this, this is after they whooped, I would stay without Bogi. I still think they're the

team to beat in the Big twelve. And he's amazing at figuring out kind of the math puzzle for his team and how he can get him to win. But I would also point out that, you know, this is a program that's not used to the portal, and it feels like they made they made some mistakes in the portal they didn't need to make. They took several guards. None of them are really contributing, not just from me Martin,

but a chef who kid from Drake. I don't understand some of the selections and maybe you're just looking for depth. They don't have depth inside, and they do have a depth in the back court that he doesn't seemingly trust. So that element to it is at least interesting, if if nothing else, and and kind of classic Bill self.

They'll probably win the league, they'll probably be overseated and they won't get to a final four, and people say they choked, And the truth is that his coaching and what they're able to do and put guys and his ability to win that league covered up for the fact that they're not nearly as talented as as some of these teams are. UM I was at Texas and Texas

Texas tech I I I don't hate Texas. Um I think you have one of the problems when you're running a motion offense and you bring so many new guys in is not a lot of guys play motion offense and they all have It's like they're all they're all open box guys and you've never even been the best buy and you get some open box. The box has already been open. Now you could say the same thing about Texas Tech that as seven new players. Um, I

think their defense is incredible. I think their offense is okay, But I don't necessarily believe that Texas has the personnel for how how he wants to play for Texas Tech incredible on defense, I mark Adams is a not a good a great defensive coach. They're as good at in terms of playing the way they want to play a hard pick up, full court, get you to the half court, keep you to one side, pressure forced to the baseline. That's where the help is. Doubling from the baseline and

post catches pretty outstanding. And then you factor in that that place is a zoo. Now, I think they can keep it going. I think he's an incredible coach, and that junior college background only helps him. You know, take guys from all different sorts of pots and melt them in and make make some kind of stew. Texas eventually will be fine. This year, the probably NC a terman team, and as he gets the future years, so get guys

that fit better. But Texas texts the interesting one because Adams has used what Beard built and built on it. It's pretty awesome. All right. Let's get to John sun Bold. When we last talked to him, he was done as a college player. How did he lasts as long as a pro. Here's part two with John Sunfold. You know it was what well, my you know, my brother coaches and he always says that she always the player led team is a good team, you know when you have with there, And that's kind of the magic to it

a little bit. You know, we had you could talk back to coach, you could, you could, you can snap back in, you know, at your own peril and you better you better be right, you know, um, and you better have some another player to kind of have your back. You can talk back to coach. But you know, we we had. And this is where I think, I think the sport is missing. And I'm not one of these. It was always better in the olden days, right, but the sport is missing the continuity of playing two and

three and four and five years together. One the bonds, the bonds you build are unbelievable. But but just in terms of the sport, We're playing the Sweet sixteam Syracuse in front of forty people against seen all and they played that year, Um, Tommy Emikers the coach. They would switch between a man and man and they would play wasn't a triangle to the guard three and not guard too? Kind of like Tim Floyd sometimes would do a little bit and um. But but they were kind of getting

screwed up by what we were doing. And so because we had a guy named Brian Mortin and is now a high school coach and tulsa very good air six ten shooter. Uh, it kind of screwed him up because now we had four shooters and me, you know. Um, and so we call at a time out, I said, hey, let's run cyclone. And cyclones are just a play where we set a ball screen on one side. They swing it to me and they said, a double backscreen for

the ball screener. We called cyclone because we took it from Tim Floyd my sophomore year and put it in and we ran it to death my sophomore year. We ran to death my junior we had never practiced it. We had never once gone dry five on o on it. My senior season. It was not part of what we did. But I just said, hey, look like, let's run cyclone. I remember it like, yeah, like who what, Like, go to Joe because a hardheage on that and then swing it to me and we'll get and we got like

three layps on it. We also called I called an inbounds play that we hadn't run in two years, and we got a couple of layups and open shots on it, and it was like one. It's the it's the cohesiveness of guys also to the level of basketball. I you that was needed and demanded, and not everybody came in as a smart basketball player, right, Yeah, I agree with you, But it's more like, hey, if you're going to play, you have to be able to defend and rebound, but

you better know what trick you're doing, right. You got to be in the right place at the right time. You don't have to make the shop. You better know what you're supposed to be. And I think that's really those are things that are really hard now as the world has said, like, hey, these kids have to be able to move and like, yeah, but there's part part of the magic to it that I think set you

up for success. But I also think makes the process more enjoyable is that, Hey, there was a time where you know, like Bryan moon Nutey again, he didn't play thirteen games, didn't they didn't take off the sweats thirteen games. Our sophomore year we came in together. He transferred from Tortune Jr. College. Didn't play. Now he made the big free throws beat Oklahoma. They carey him off the court. But there were thirteen times which he did not play

in the game. On my senior year, he was amazing, right, And that's like what it's supposed to be about. And I just don't know if we I don't think we can ever get it back. And I don't know why we took that out of the sport. I don't think you can. It goes back to, Okay, you played for a tough coach. Um. When you play a place three or four years, you take on the personality of that guy. Right. So when Norm's good teams at Missouri were usually junior

senior laden teams, no different than my squads. When we were using juniors and senior we walked into Alan field House like the old man and our coach. Right, bring it on f all you people. It doesn't matter. And you get that only because you're you're built for that. You weren't built for that when you're young, right. Uh. An example, when I was a freshman, I mean, you know, just scrimmaging here, I am just scrimmage and freshman on the break all American Larry Drew throws me the ball.

I shoot it. Norm blows the whistle stops it. Why the hell would you shoot that shot? I don't have an answer for him. I have no answer for why I would shoot it. Now, fast forward to my senior year. I was on the World Cup team. Come back from South America where we played, Uh, come back. We're practicing, back and forth, back and forth. I pull up and just fire one in. He blows a whistle, stops the practice. Why do you shoot it? I said, because I'll make

that some bitch. He says, exactly right it. But do we have kids like that today? Because if you bounce, if you played for three different coaches and bounced around a lot of places, you're not gonna get it. You're not gonna have it. And the feeling you'd have is gosh, this is too hard. I may do something somewhere else. And that's the challenge. I mean, that's the biggest challenge, because you know, you go, you know you you still you're around the college game and you you go do

games and see it. I go to practices. Coaches aren't the same as they used to be. I don't mean all of them, but the guys aren't like they used like like they'd like to coach, no doubt. I mean they can't be They can't be as tough because they worry about the reaction that kids gonna have. Um My guy never you know, worried about the reaction. This isn't even he, but he used, he said, he famously would talk to other other players. He would he would say

things to other guys on other teams. And what's weird is we've gotten this magnet coaches like, don't talk to my players. Don't don't don't. Don't you talk to my players? Like what we do? You know that? What was that experience like when he would be talking to the other team's best players and say something to it and there was a like a back and forth there a little bit. Well, normal was a psychology guy. I mean it was a psychology guy. It was all basically, well, you go back

to golf. Norm would put it like, okay, if this twelve and thirteen handicapper can't break eighty right, he's in his he can't break. So we're gonna take that player over there, and he averages ten a games. See if he can get twenty five. I don't care if he makes two on you don't guard him. Now, guard him within reason, But he's gonna We're gonna see if he's cycling. His was all psychological with the officials, with opponents, uh,

and with his own team. I how about this. I'm now in the starting lineup as a freshman tenth in the country, were ranked. Colorado comes into the hern center, no shot clock, no three point line. Remember, they're gonna they're gonna stall the game on us. I mean they get the tip or we might have scored right away, they're gonna just hold the ball. Well, they screwed up. We go down to score. They screwed up, We go down to score. I'm guarding a Gavin named Jojo Hunter,

kid from maybe Baltimore. All American are all big eight player Uh Colorado, that's my assignment. He's their best player. Scored half his twenty six or twenty eight of four they got four points. You come in the locker room and you make the turn and I'm gonna take a bite out of an orange. Right, I got an orange slice. I drew the Americans next to me, Norm comes in and goes ballistic. He goes, I've never had a guy ever had a guy in history played for me or

the university that his guy scored all the points. And I look up and he goes, fucking Joe Joe Hunters got sucking every point that they I mean, the dude is too for eight, right, and now the other guys. Because I'm this freshman, I kind of put the orange down. Larry Drew said, hey, coach Sonny, Sony will do better next half. I mean, first of all, I mean it's to four, but he just you know, it was all it was psychological stuff and appointance. And I think older

coaches had that. I mean, today's world is so different. It's just so different. Again, not that it was better or worse. I'd love to play in today's world the way it's played up and down pace. I could run all the shoot shots for three or two or I would love to play in this system. But I don't know if you learn as much life skills as the old man taught me. Right, His deal was life's not easy. It's not gonna be easy. So why should I why should there be any advantage for you guys being here?

You're justice student, I get to play basketball. But you're no different than you know. And it's true, right you go coach and coach that he would you think this is hard. Life is hard. You can make it through this practice, you will make it in life. That was That was just that. But what I worry more about today's student athletes is when you're done, all the stuff

that's done for him today. And again I'm not against it, but all the stuff that's done when they're done, that all ends like it all and they're looking Okay, I didn't know how to No, it's nuts, and I think it's a they're going the wrong direction if they want to help kid. This is this is this this, this is a great part of the discussion. Okay, So I obviously you were a great player game, an NBA player, and now you got into the financial world and been

successful in it. Um. But my biggest issue with the transferring and and look I transferred, Okay, I got in trouble, but I was contemplating transferring. I was likely to go back for at least one more year. And who knows I would have transferred anyway, but I I transferred, So i'm and so I understand. I didn't go to the high school I was supposed to go to because it was better coached. I went to public school ten minutes away,

but I stayed back a year. Like again, like all these things that people are doing now like I did. So I'm not telling you that it's always wrong, but the multiple transfers. Here's the thing when you get down playing. In addition to all these things that are done for you and hand it to you, now you have to go out and do in your own You're like, holy crap, right, But it's the who do you call? Right? Like if your financial business goes tomorrow? Right like you investment and

everybody pulls their money. Okay, you're gonna call the Maszoo guys. And he said, hey, man, I need a job. I need to get my if if my job goes away, I know exactly, I know ten donors who I'm gonna call, like, tell me what I can do to give me some And I wouldn't say I need a job. I would just say, like, I don't know if you've been in the situation. But give me some guidance on if you were me, what you would do and the calls you

would make and what you do. Right. You have a and you have a basketball fan, right, right, So, and if you want to go into coaching, you go into coaching with that basketball tree. You've got guys playing at four schools. Four What alumni game invites a guy who's been been there for a week? Right? Who do you like? You're not synonymous with You're synonymous with Missouri. I'm synonymous

with Oaklahom. Mistake, Guys, you gotta play somewhere two or three years in order to have kind of that sweat equity. And we've we've completely eliminated. You know, you have people who are in our position or even bigger stages than what we do now platforms who do not ever translate the value in it, the value in being a part of something for longer and sticking out the tough times, even if it's not for the betterment of your career, your immediate career. And I don't know why that's not

a spoken value. I don't really understand that. Yeah, And the other part is, I don't know if there can be the truth. The truth pill is a difficult one, right, the truth of your game as a player. That that's the hard part for kids, and coaches have a hard time with it because they don't want a kid to transfer, They don't want a kid to leave. But if they're really honest, and we're all most of these kids are playing the next level. Whatever left. You're not playing now.

Some can be a paid pro. Some that's great. But in order to understand that truth, that's a tough one because no one really gives them the truth. There's some bloody on the outside saying you're gonna if you played somewhere else, you'll you know, you can play at this league. You can play. Look at that guy over there, heap made it. Uh, you have to have some guidance. I had obviously my my my dad would never have said I'd have been a pro player like that wasn't There

was no goal of me being an NBA player. There was no goal for me to be a Division one player. Now when I got there, my goal was I hate losing. I don't like not being good. So you know, now by the time I'm a senior, I'm on the play by All American team, I make the World Cup team, and I'm looking around, going, Okay, they're talking about all

these other dudes making the pros. Right, and again I'm good friends with John Paxson, But John was it Notre Dame and he's on that list, and I know I can play with packs, and so was it my thought of I would be in the NBA? No, no, no no. I wanted to win the fourth Big Eight championship so badly and then get to the final four. We didn't. We made the first part, didn't make a second and end the career that no one had had around here, right, No one had won four championships in a row here

or I didn't even know in the Big eight? Right not back then? Un tell Kansas in the Big twelve. What a bunch at the end of it all. When that was done, then the focus became, well, I knew I'll get a tryout. I know I'll get drafted. I don't know where it could be second round, they say, maybe second, maybe first, maybe, I know I'll get a shot. Now, how do you how do you? How do you make it there? Well, I'll play to my strengths, stay away from my weeknes no difference, I played in college. There

were things. There are things I did in high school that I didn't do in college because I used to. I was fast, so I used to take it to the rim a lot right high school. My strength was not initialing at the ram. In college, we didn't run stuff that I finished at the ring. So if you said true point guard, no, probably not in an NBA sense because of I didn't do those things. Now could I handle it and not make mistakes? Yes? Was that true shooting guard? Not because of size, But I can

outshoot anybody in my mind. I got outshoot in packs and packs and played in the system that you played in college. You're you're packing, right, So you combine to both and say, okay, let me go to show up to training camp and I'll give it a go. You know, I always used to think, if you gave me two players and so and I don't care Michael Jordan's two players will beat three on three, like I'll make we'll win. I'll win three on three, five on five. I won't

win one on one. I knew that, and I knew that training camp like when we're doing one on one drills on the wing, all right, So I got beat again, I'm gonna file, I'm gonna grab, I'm gonna hold, the guy's gonna go the hole. I'm gonna knock it away and knock his hand off, because usually you know, it's just a drill one up, right. But if you gave us two and three on three, four and four or five oh five, I thought, okay, some bold teams gonna win. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live now. I was the sixteenth pick in the draft, which surprised me. And where were you doing that? Where were you the night of the draft? I was at my house. I had been kind of invited that they were doing the New York thing, but it was smaller and I no one knew where I was going. Back then, you didn't really have workouts for your team. My agent, who I hired,

was from Seattle. He never heard from the Summits. He'd heard from the Spurs. The night before the draft. I play in summer ly in Kansas City, Indiana. Pacers called my house. They had the second pick in the draft. They're gonna take Stepanovitch and the last pick of the first round, They're gonna take me now again. My dad didn't believe that because you didn't know to believe. So that day that the draft was in the afternoon and

I'm sitting I'm sitting in my house. My brother Scott, who is four years older than me as an engineer, retired engineer now a genius mind built some nuclear devices on bombs and stuff today. So anyway, he's he's at my house with my parents and his wife. Literally true story. Doug st Pick is now Seattle. Now I'm you know, I'm thinking, okay, is it Randy Whitman or Paxson or

you know guys. So they take the camera and they show it over the shoulder and the guy writes my name on it and they take that card and the guy walks up and Seattle and sixteen pick takes John Stumble and my brother Scott. Again. I'm a little brother. I'm the little brother. He's looking at me like they took you, like, why why would they take you? Now? The other cool thing about it is in nineteen my senior in high school, Sonics won the NBA Championship. Jack

Sikman for d Brown. Guess Williams, I'm now, four years later gonna go play with those guys like that's that's incredible. But if you don't think you belong, he won't belong. I didn't. I didn't. I had a great camp. My first twenty games were off the chart. Then what happened is fred Brown needed more minutes off the bench. He was downtown. Freddy Brown, aged thirty one. David Thompson, one of the greatest ever, came off an injured list. So then your minutes kind of go down. But uh, but

here's the packing order of how kids are. My second trip maybe to to Kansas City, maybe my first trip. I had an unbelievable second game. Lenny Wilkins was my coach. First game, I might have played five minutes the first game we had in Seattle. Second game, we go to Kansas City where the Kings were. Lenny puts me in second quarter where Kemper old kemper Arena. I love Kemper. I hit three, I got six points. At half. It's

Blue Springs, it's Johnston Bull Day. Half, my hometown's there, you know, and I'm I'm feeling good at half because I scored right, I've I've got three buckets, but good, at least I didn't lay an egg. We come out I have twelve In the fourth quarter we went like I again, you're in front of your own people. You do your thing. But what's funny about that is the night before we had practiced at a place called Avala

College in Kansas City. Back in the day, you'd take anywhere you can practice, right, you fly into a town. My brother Scott, the engineer, the most cautious of all of us, comes to watch practice. Now in his mind, there's Jack Sickman. Wow, there's David Thompson, there's and there's a little brother John. But that's so. My brother Bob from Columbia comes over for dinner my family's house and he says to my brother Bob, he goes, you know,

John's pretty good. Now I'm a little brother. I'm just a little and Bob goes, no, ship like you haven't been watching for four years. I mean, but again, that's that's you know in the Midwest. Town in the Midwest, and you know, I mean it was it was comical, but but it was true. I'm still a little brother johnap So, yeah, I mean, it was. But the thing about what helped me was when my minutes went down that rookie year. I know what one game, maybe I didn't get in and I was pissed, Like I'm pissed

and I'm gonna get dressed fast. Lenny's already given a speech and and Freddie Brown, age thirty one, comes over and said, here's the deal. It's not how many minutes you play, it's how many years you play. So here's what you need to do. Go get on the treadmill. Uh, lift some weights before you get out of here. I'll meet you tomorrow early. Don't take a day off because when Lenny calls your number, you gotta be ready. Fast forward.

I played nine years, my eighth and ninth year. I'm telling guys in Miami, Bimbo Coles, Keith Askins, I'm going in there going, hey, guys, know how many years? Man haven't now many minutes, it's years. Lift some weights. I'll lift with you. I'll come tomorrow early. We'll get some shots in. And both those guys had a longer career. And I mean because if you don't that that that

ego gets in your way. And if you know Lenny's call him my number one night, and all of a sudden, she and I haven't been shooting, and I haven't not in shape because you know the game, NBA game so many games. The practices aren't much. But if you're not playing, you better stay sharp. You better stay sharp. And that's the challenge. What was David Thompson? Uh, one of the nicest guys I've ever met. David had a substance issue. Uh,

and he was coming out of rehab. Did you know? Yeah, we we we knew, Yes, yeah, we knew because it was public. Uh. And so when he I didn't, I didn't meet him, like until let's say, let's say, let's say camp started October one, and I probably went out to Seattle September one right to start working out with you guys. I think David joined us mid November one, December.

First time I menut and what I mean David David Thompson was David Thompson, Like yeah, And what was really cool about it was you play and i'd let's say, I guarded him and he would come off a pick. We used to laugh about discuss. Williams always laughed David would catch it and wait till you got on and then jump up and shooting like I can shoot if I'm open, but I'd rather just you come out and then I'll shoot it over like and I look at him like you always gotta wait for me. He goes, well,

I know you'll get there. I just yeah. But anyway, so in the nightmare of all nightmares in in in our life, none of us knew what substance abuse was, right, that's what That's why I asked yes. So we didn't understand that you couldn't have a beer right, like nothing. And we had a we were on the East Coast, we were in Philadelphia, we played a game. We took a bus from there to Jersey and on that bus, I mean again, it's grown man, so you're drinking beer

or whatever. But none of us knew that David shouldn't. And that night the youngest of the young they're all older guys. So we get there. We had a day off the next day and I'm a kid from the Midwest, and they said, anybody want to go do something. We're in Jersey, New York. We probably got there to mid

eleven o'clock midnight. I said, let's go to studio fifty four. Like, that's right, So probably six of us pile in different two different cabs and go studios sixty four and in in in a in a nightmarish moment at about two thirty, I remember a big bouncer grabbing me. You're with Seattle, right, yeah, and he's pulling me out into this cold outside with the other guys. David had gotten some altercation and some

guy pushed him down the stairs. That was that night, Yeah, and his knee blew up and swelled up in his jeans. I mean we could see it, and it was. It was. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. But yeah, I was so he had ended his career and it was it was tough because, I mean, we none of us knew the fact that a David couldn't drink a beer and we shouldn't be drinking around it, right, We didn't none of understood any of that stuff. And uh, yeah, it was. It was a bad night. It was a

bad night. What was Tom Chambers? Tom was I'll tell you what. He was a high flyer. I'm just telling you, freak like like he's one of those um Like again, if you played today right like he would absolutely translate today. He was so athletic because he shoot. He was He was the opposite of usually the plotting power forward right six ft ten high flyer shoot. Tom played at a high, intense level, like not always high, i Q at times low,

but high in slow. And I'll just say this, if he's running the floor and he doesn't get it, oh he's on your ass. Like he's on your ass. But if he gets it in the right spot, as Lenny always told me, Lenny Wilpins, if Tom gets in the right spot, he's finishing this planet. Right, He's and and that's what he He just had an intensity to him that was just crazy, like just and he'd go get numbers. I mean, he's just getting numbers every night, every game.

And I didn't practice all that hard all the time. But here's the thing about the NBA. People don't get because they say, well, practice can't be hard. All you gotta do is play five on five and then practice his heart right because of the competitive level. You take the second five and they start kicking the ass of the first cash because that's what you want to do. I want more minutes. I'm gonna try to score on him and then all of a sudden, you gotta practice. Now,

you gotta worry about fighting, right, you're a team. But that's all an NBA. I've never been on a team that didn't fight. And that's but that's that's the level of competition of the personnel, and the NBA is the highest ever. So when someone said, well, practice is easy, I went, yeah, not really, because everybody wants minutes. If a guy in front of me turns his ankle, that's too bad for you. But my turn, right, it's it's my turn. Like so I and I hope you sit

out for about a week. And when when sicknal we get the ball in the post and reverse pivot and make a shot. Did you guys call it the sigma then? Or was it afterwards that he became the sick move. I was always a sick mon. It was always Jack, I mean, but that was that's that was his move. That was his go to the reverse, reverse pivot and the post. No one did that, even the all all the way behind the head up high. Guys couldn't know. It was my rookie year. We go to Boston. We're

only going to the Celtics once. One time you go West East once they come out to place once and I don't know, I think they only lost one game in this two year span. We beat him, and I must have played well because I was in the fourth I was in, I was in the game the fourth quarter of the whole quarter. Guarden, Dennis Johnson and Sickma had about thirty eight and Bird had about forty five. Is back and forth, but we beat him, and something unheard of because again nobody went to Boston and won

a game. But uh, yeah, Jack was I mean obviously the Hall of Fame or special player um and I don't I mean Helly shot for the free tie like he could have just flat out shooting. And again one of those guys that I don'm not saying overachieved, but any hig school showed up, you know, and and and worked at his craft. I mean, he was one of those guys that worked at his craft. And again, if I wouldn't have played for Seattle, I'm not sure howd have played nine years. I played with older guys because

they taught me to be a pro. Even though today's world, a young guy goes to a young team. If you don't learn it, yeah, you can be done in a year and I don't I don't know if I would have survived if I wouldn't have played with a bunch of older guys. Then again, after practice, Doug, I'm twenty two years old, going okay, what do we do now? Well? No, they all got wives and kids, and I'm thinking, well, shoot, so I go hang out the mall or I'll go.

I mean it was weird. It was weird. But if I wouldn't have played Freddie Brown and Gus and those guys, yeah, I don't know if I have played nine, I really don't. Um you went. You were on the first heat team, right, yeah? Yeah? Yeah? That was that the expansion draft? Or was so I was picked up? You have twelve guys, you could keep eight. Now we lost? Okay, I'm with the Spurs. We drafted David Robinson, but he couldn't play, went to the Naval So we don't really have a center because we have David.

Did you guys have Tart with Tart the coach that year? No? I had. That was Bobby Wise. First. I was traded cotton Fit Simmons traded for me. I was two years in Seattle, went to my third camp Bernie Bickerstaff came in. Lenny Wilkins went up to be GM. I knew in training camp I'm either done in the league or I'll be somewhere else, because Bernie had his way of doing things more defensive oriented, wasn't Mike. I mean, I guarded as well as I could, but it didn't matter. So

Cotton Fit Simmons traded for me. Then he was fired. We had Bobby Wisse, who really, for me, was my best coach. He didn't want to point guard, to run pick and roll. He wanted passing game perfect. I come up, I enter, you go through, you move it. So that that year, uh, the expansion came in, I started quite a bit of it. I had a stress fracture in my leg, my timby bone. It's like uh splints, and I played on it because back then, if I didn't, you thought you cut and you weren't getting paid. So

I played on it. I think the Spurs thought that, actually, Bobby. We made the playoffs. We get beat by the Lakers. It was the Laker Lakers, right, the great Lakers, and I started. We get beating three games best of five. It was interesting because they could protect eight guys well obviously, everybody thought I was one of the eight, and I told my wife, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if they'll protect me, and she said, why wouldn't I well, I got this crack in my bone. It's got a heel.

I don't know. So anyway, the list comes out and they don't protect me. And that night my agent calls Charlotte wants to see me. Miami wants to see me, but they want to see an X ray. Miami flies me down to see their doctor and they all said stay off your leg all summer really here, which is a killer for a guy that all I do is work out and run. And I got had my legs to shoot order to play. So anyway, the heat picked me up. We go down there. I wasn't in great shape.

They picked me up to kind of be elite guard, but I wasn't in shape. I wasn't It wasn't good. So training camp was awkward. Then I decided I told my why we rented a furnished apartment downtown condominum. I said, we won't be here long. I'll be cut something. So I took the time, like the first few weeks of the season, when we got started to just get in shape. Wrote a bike to practice, Ran stayed after, Ran, wrote a bike back home, got my legs to where it

was good. They were good, and we were bad as a team because you just took They took the youngest guys they could. We had old guys Rory Sparrow, Pat Cummings, Scott Hastings. Now we could play the they were gonna play the young guys. So in my world what happened was we were so bad offensively, so bad offensively that at one point they came and said, all right, Sobold, when you get in you gotta shoot. And I'm like, what do you mean, No, No, you're coming out of

you don't shoot. You can shoot a running hook, you can shoot a running shot. We're setting picks for you. So I averaged double figures. I said, an NBA record fifty two from three point line, and literally, if I didn't shoot it ship they'd take me out because we were bad. But we started winning some games, having fun. I mean it was we knew the older guys knew that our job basically was to help the young guys. Right. This was the last. It was my sixth year, the

last of my contract. I had a three year deal start with the next one was a three year, no guarantee, and I thought to my wife, this is it, Like, we'll just play this out. It's been fun. I'm on a serious roll through December, gonna be in the All Star shootout, scoring shooting. My agent call said, hey, I'm heading to my he's in Seattle, Stelle, I'm head to Miami. They want to sign a new deal, I said, A new deal, I said, And this was I thought the coach.

The coach kind of wanted to trade me. To be honest. Yeah, they're run and I got long, but he knew that young guys, and he was a defensive minded guy. And again, you know, I'd come in. I'd come in after the game we'd lose like eight, and I'd be like, dude, we gotta at the NBA. We need to score over Hunter. So we didn't maybe get along with some of that. It wasn't bad. So he said he was gonna play me to trade me, which makes you ornery, And I said, good right, good, so play me. So now you go

on a role not my agents in town. I go out of town, come back. We go have dinner in Coconut grove. I'll there forget sitting outside of this a little mixt or Italian place. Here's a three year guaranteed deal. Uh, my wife's looking like, what do you mean guaranteed? He's got bad legs, he got bad shoulders. He was no guaranteed. And they're gonna pay you more to sign this than you're making that because they're under the salary camp. He said, but if you keep playing like this to be a

free agent and the money's gonna jump next year. I said, hey, he didn't. He may not even play me the rest of the way, Like, I have no idea what's gonna go on. Anyway, we signed the deal because we like Miami. I had a great relationship with Cunningham, the Hall of Famer. Billy was part of the ownership group and was in charge of a little bit of basketball personnel. So Billy came to me and said, here's the deal. There might be some teams that need your services when we get

close to trade deadline. He goes, every time they call for you, I'm you and I'll meet. We'll see if I said, hey, that's fair. I mean I loved my Miami was fun, right, I had no kids, off days. I was friends of every golf pro in the area. Uh. I think the first team that wanted me was the New Jersey Nets. So so Billy's at practice and he goes to stay here. He goes, Okay, uh Jet, the Nets are gonna give up a second und pick for you. He goes, I don't need any more draft picks. They've

blown us up forever. So he looked at me, he goes, do you really want to go to New Jersey? They're gonna be the eighth seed. No play the Celtics. I said, well, I don't really want to go to I thought, so let's not go to Jersey. And then there was one more mult have been the Bucks for somebody, and there would have been a five seed, but they were gonna win the title. And again, when you're in Miami and

you're thinking of going to Milwaukiere in New Jersey. Yeah, I told Billy, because Billy said, John, you're good for us. You do what you do, whether whether you play thirty minutes a night or no minutes a night, You go speak publicly for us, You help out the young guys. So and really, my, my, my last two years were just not any fun because I got hurt um my eighth year. I don't know how you get pneumonia, but I got pneumonia. I was in Jersey, not feeling well.

It was a game before the All Star break. I'm playing a game against the Nets, and I am exhausted and can't. I mean, it's just awful. So sleep that night, really don't sleep. Everybody goes their own ways because it's All Star break. I get on a plane, get a blanket, go back to Miami and go to bed. My wife and I can't breathe can't. She gets me to the hospital the next day and I've got pneumonia. I don't know what the hell it was, but your luans are full of fluid. I didn't play the rest of year.

They wouldn't let me in the gym. So that was that year. So what I did to get my lungs better. I trained, I got a buddy's, got a house in Bail, Colorado, went to Veil for two months and just ran in the hills. So now I got my lungs back. Go back for my ninth year, having issues with my neck. Played some games. I think it was the Celtics, maybe a game I don't know ten leven. I'm gonna come off for down three and Michael hits me in my shoulders. My neck goes back. I'm numb, like I'm numb. They

could have thrown the ball shift it hit me. I'm numb. Tell the trainer, and trainer goes you, I've been watching you last two weeks. You got heat on your you know, I go take X rays. I got two discs that are jacked up, so next her. So I sat that whole year in a neck brace. For nowadays you have to wear a neck brace. Back then you were for about eight weeks, twenty four hours a day the heat.

That was the first year the heat made the playoffs and I got to dress for the playoffs and I think I got in one minute, but I was not my neck. Wasn't you lose a little bit? And in the tenth year, I was going back with ten and I kind of decided with my doctor that maybe nine is good like it wasn't. If you lose a little bit, that's a lot at that level. And I couldn't quite

see what I wanted to see. And every time I got hit, it was kind of like get my bell wrung because what goes from here to your body all goes through this channel. And it was just so. About three weeks before I told my wife and said, I

think I'm done. I think I'm done. And now whether in my mind I thought I'm gonna beat them from cutting me or you know, I don't know what I was thinking, but I thought at the time, you know what, Uh, every year in camp was harder because there were more six four dudes and six five dudes that were a camp and you know, it's just another battle. But uh, yeah, so the last two years weren't's fun. But you know, your body is your body. You try to survive, but

it's tough when when you officially like walked away, right. Yeah, I was feeling like that was weird. The heat. The heat offered me. Do you want to be in coaching or in the front office? Um. My wife was pregnant. It was in the fall of ninety two with our first child. We lived in Coral Gables, close to University of Miami. I liked it, but again we were both Midwest people. My wife from the southeast corner of Missouri

called the Booth Hill not far from Memphis. I said, okay, boy or girl we have Can you let them ride their bike down to that park just to block away from where we live? She was not not here, like it's different. I said, okay, then we'd have to move up somewhere in a gated community and all that. And I had already had my license and investment business kind of thought. I mean, it was nothing I knew much about, except I thought it was pretty cool Wall Street Man

and my dad didn't have any money. We have money, but I kind of always thought, I don't even know what it is. So I told my wife I was licensed. I said, let's go back to Missouri. We have a condo, and then we'll figure out what we'll do. And like any athlete, I came back home. I worked at an investment firm. I'm doing radio for Missouri. But on those quiet nights with my wife's sleeping, there were times I would go to the old field House on the campus

of Missouri. You know that's open for students, and I was shooting and I was running, thinking I could still do I could still go do this right, this is what I do. And you don't. You don't get it out of your head until at some point you just say what are you doing right? You can't. This isn't what you're gonna do. But it doesn't. It doesn't leave you because when you're when you're when you're gone from that,

you're going from that locker room. You're going from all those things that you liked, besides the competition, the guys in that room, right, the guys that go to battle and in the NBA it's not as tight as college, but it is because you you understand each other that tomorrow that guy's traded, right, I mean, it's the it's the hardest business. And so you missed that stuff. And when you miss that stuff, you think, should I go back and try it? Aget? Could I still go do

what I did? And I could have. My legs were still fine, but at some point I just was like, Okay, now I'm done. So then it was on to the next thing. What do I do? And it was you know, doing the radio for Missouri was fine, but I didn't really like doing one team. I didn't like doing the same team every night. Like, I'm not a fanatic, So I don't blame the referees for losing a game. If it's my team, right, Missouri's my team. You know, hey, you lost, you lost, Let's go home, all right. And

so I was curious. It wasn't me that got me into TV jokes. Stig Leon got me into TV. Joe was assistinat at Missouri. Joe came and yeah, there was probably five TV games that Missouri did on Missouri package. He said, hey, I want you to do these TV games. And I've already called Ray Calm and told them you should do some Big twelve or Big eight games. I said, really, He goes, no, no, really, he said, you go do these Missouri games. I'm gonna I'm gonna take the tape.

I'm Senator Ray Calm. I think they'll call you. So that's how I got into that. As far as you know, doing games, best player you ever saw play an NBA game, they're gonna play. Yes, my size or any size. Just I'm just it's a very open question. You can. So here's how I mean. I came into probably the greatest era of basketball. Uh three, it's the it's it's the it's the perfect level of magic. And Burke right never

see anything like it. Watched them at their best, played against them when they had games that I shook my head I shook my head at because everybody's at this level and the great ones just moving a notch up. But I also played. Kareem was in l A. Dr J was in Philly and in his career but still Dr Ju. When he said when he introduced himself to me and he knew my name was John and he

introduced himself as Julius. Again no cell phones, but I I want to go, holy sh it, like he knows who I So, I mean, so I would say this if you gave me a player. And again I played against Michael in college, was on the Playball American team with him. Got to know him. Michael's Michael. But if you someone called the other day said who would you take Michael o'bron, I said, if you gave me a pick, give me a pick. I'm taking Magic Johnson. If you give me a pick and then you know, then we'll

pick the other four. Give me Magic because I've never seen anything like what he could do at whatever position. People for Gutty played center when they won the World Championship. When Kareem got hurt, he had forty two points in the post. You I also you know I also played when Bird would come to San Antonio and just talk trash that you didn't know he was talking. I knew he was talking because I'm on the court. And then

when you come out. We had Don Booze was our assistant coach, and Don Boozy played thirteen years A B A N B. A. Boozy's from Indiana. He's a buddy of birds. I'd come out, I'd sitting sitting next to Boozy on the bench, and Bird would come down the court and say, hey, boom off the glass for all net. Now our coach conference Simmons would be up aways, couldn't hear him, and Boom would put his off the glass. And again, I'm twenty five years old sitting there. Bourd

would catch it. Boom boom off the glass. Net wink over at him. No, I mean, I think the guys at that level. But okay, let's go back. I was in Seattle when Bernard King gave this uh Portland trailblazerste one night and fifty the next night to us. Couldn't No one could guard him. I saw much Seattle before he heard his knees undersized post. Who's that? You know what? He could play anywhere? He didn't shoot it very deep, but he could. He could. He hit the release was

so fast it was a turnaround. So there were so many guys, but okay, I'll go back. Who was the toughest guy I would have to fi guard outside of being matched up, like if I was on Buddy, I got switched on magic. Isaiah Thomas was the best. Isaiah was the best at my size. And Isaiah could do things with the ball that were just magical, like he'd come down and he might figure eight the damn ball

in front of you. And the only hope I had Doug was if he made a move and then he spun back to me right like he made a move, spun back to me, and I'm like, God, I'm really good now and not really but but uh, here's a good story. I went to University of Iowa basketball camp ninth grade. My high school coach had just moved from Iowa or the varsity coach is gonna be so he takes me up to Iowa. Lude Olson and they're from Chicago,

was his baby faced Isaiah Thomas. Right. So in camp, here's Isaiah and Kenny Arnold who played at i all these Chicago kids. I left that camp and went back home, and I thought there must be a thousand Isaiah Thomas like my My whole world changed by the thought of how much I better practice to be good. Now there's only one, but I thought there were thousands. I thought, God and I am so far behind the dudes of

my neighborhood. Aren't like these dudes. And what I started doing when I got my license to drive, from like Blue Springs is thirty miles into Kansas City, I would drive and go play in the playgrounds in summer. My other buddies are playing baseball. I drove into playing the playgrounds because in my mind all the way up till ever was there's a thousand Isaiah Thomas is out there, only one, but he was the best. Just it. It's saying, Okay,

you gotta guard him too hard. Best pro coach here in playot or they're also different, Uh you know, Lenny Lenny was. Lenny Wilkins was probably good for me. I wish you'd probably been tougher so that I understood it more. I like playing Cotton Fitz Simmons was terrific for me. Bobby Weiss was the best for me because of the yeah from the passing game, and I played with artists. Gillmore, Mike Mitchell was an All Star. Alvin Robertson, the Arkansas player was an All Star. Uh, we were we were good,

but we missed at one point. We missed the center. But he was over at the naval A can like if you had him. Anyway, when I left, What's funny is when I left there, Larry Brown took over, and Larry tried to get me back to San Antonio from Miami because they missed that piece. But anyway, Uh, you know, all the coaches are different, the NBA is different. It's just different. It's uh, you're all in the same group.

And for the most part, the players feel it when a coach gets fired because you fired him, right, coach gets fired. That's what college kids don't understand. And I've said that to other groups of college kids and like, hey, we've got a new coach. I said, yeah, you just lost the last guy's job. So you guys aren't that good. You know, new guys coming in. He's gonna ship you

out of here somehow. But that's I think that's the challenge and the challenge when you're trying to have a career at it is how do you figure out how to play or how to survive? And most guys in training camp I thought, Doug that they cut themselves, tried to do something they weren't. You know, if a kid was in training camp from Villanova and he's known as a good default guard and about the first week of camp he's shown him he's trying to be Michael Jordan's.

I mean I could, I'd sit there and think, Okay, he's gonna be gone. He's gone. You know, do what you do and do it well. Brothers do what they do. Amateurs trying to prove what they can't do. They can do and and and rue and you gotta elevate you. You gotta keep working on what Yes, it was, But there was no difference in the way I shot the ball. Every year I was better, Like I was better every year, range was better. Every sport is about accuracy, no matter

what the sports about accuracy. And then it's about how fast can you do that at an accurate level? Right now? Some people aren't as athletic to do it at a higher level. But if I could make a shot, then how fast can I make the shot? How fast? And my foot how how fast are my feet moving? What's the footwork? And how quick sur release from my waist to the shot? How fast is that? Can I do it with a hand in my face or hands down?

I mean that's and I think most pros I played with, not all, but most pros were driven that way, like you don't have to make anybody do anything, and all you have to do in the summer was trying how do I make my game better? And for me it was probably more defensively. I did just get better defensively. That was tough, all right. Last thing as a guy who was a great shooter, Um, when you watch Steph Curry, because the thing that amazed me about Curry it's not

as much the range. The range is incredible, but that does feel like a natural evolution. It's a different type of shot, yes, um, but it's he told me something a long time ago, which is interesting. He's like, you know, people, I want to compare my era with other eras, Like I've never walked onto a basketfloor that didn't have a three point line. It's like what people have to understand.

It is like all those other guys. So, in addition to the coaches, not necessarily embracing the value three point shot like players themselves, like we were all taught very different game. The spacing is different, the movements different or whatever.

But what the other part, the release time is incredible at that range and that accuracy and then not just catching catching shoot incredibly quick going right and going left right, Like everybody remember Sedale three, Like Sedale three was with it that when Magic had to retire, Sedale was like their point guard and it was if you put it, he went left. It was in, yeah, you went right, catch shoot in going left. This guy goes left and right. But at the end, that's as a guy who wasn't

a good shooter, as a great shooter. When you watch him, what do you see? What? What? What goes through your well? The first thing, I mean the ability to make shots or freakish from the range. Now again that's evolution, but it's also he changed how guys shoot it a little bit, uh kind of twist. It's it's a push shot. You kind of push it right. Not a guy who has the old traditional jump shot would be Devin Booker jumps up shoots it. That's kind of what our generation was.

Jump up shooting. Uh, curries is more all the way up quicker right, it's not at the peak of his jump, and other guys have mimicked and copied that. And again you have better range because you're you're not jumping and shooting at the top of the jump. So but it's freakish. And how accurate again, right or left, it doesn't matter off the dribble, off the pass, how quick the releases. But it goes back to how accurate. And then again

the evolution is how fast can you be accurate? And it's and say, guys in my era or his dad Dell, you can catch it and release it so fast. All of us could do that, like you could just get rid of it. There was no space. I mean I never worried about a space a guy dealing. I mean, if a guy was in front of me, I was gonna I had no problem because his hand probably wasn't

gonna get the ball. The only one I worried about it if you went up to shoot it and the guy went beside you, I didn't know where he was, right, I didn't know where the ant was, and I would and because of that I used to go to the side of shooters, like if you're trailing someone's gonna shoot the jump shot. I'd go to the side because you didn't know whether if he's in front of me, I don't I gotta shoot it higher whatever. I can shoot

it around this. But the guy that went to the side of you, I'm now you're thinking, is he is he blocking it from it? I mean the nemesis for a guy like me would be like a Michael Cooper played for the Liers. Right six six long gave me space, but he knew he could get to that space, right. I knew when when came in the game and he saw me, I'm like, yes, I'm a bit here. You get a switch here. Switch. He's not taking like a playoff, right,

he's he's in to play defense. And you'd rather have like George Gurban would come in and George is gonna say, like, you'd make a shot on Gurban and he'd giggle and say, man has a good shot, and then you'd go down the other end and score, and then leave you open and you'd score. You know, those games were like one forty two to one thirty coach coach Brother in law ball.

You guys playing brother in law ball and let each other score and you know, but if a defender, can you know Michael Cooper came in and went here we go like, I gotta figure out to run him off a screen or do something because he's he gave you nothing, like gave you Nothing's been awesome with your time. I

want to schedule one. I want to talk more about the financial aspect of it, and then I want to talk about broadcasting and that that entire journey because I think you know I've I've told you I'll always appreciated what you've done, you more so now doing it and taking bits a piece of how you've done it. But I want to kind of tease that I want to give anything that away. Um, let's let's do that again soon. But thank you so much for your time. Hey, have

a good one. Where are you going this week? Uh? Texas Texas Tech? Oh my god, Oh my god, that'll be great. Hey great, I'm doing radio flo it but it's awesome. Um. And then I got Santa Clara. I think it's Santa Clara, San Francisco. And then I'm taking my son and our team to still Water this weekend. We're gonna practice Friday night, We're gonna go to bedlam and then we're playing in a tournament in Norman. So get him, give him a kind of look of what

it what it feels like, what it tastes like. It's pretty cool, that's pretty cool. We have fun. Hey, be safe when you travel. Holler me anytime. We'll do it. Thank you so much. All right, that's Part two with John sun Bold. In the meantime, remember to listen to Doug out the Show three to six Eastern time on Fox Sports Radio or the I Heart Radio app. I'm Doug leave In. This is all bol