Hey, welcome into the All Ball Podcast. Boy Doug Gottlieb here and Man, We're gonna have a two part pop and I'll talk a little bit about my recruitment UMU. During the pod, we'll talk a little bit about the I gotta do an NBA preview. Like man, we just get these great interviews and have these great talks, So I want to do all of that. But first I wanted to catch up with Dan dick out. Dan obviously was was college basketball play of the year play in
the NBA. But in this pod, we're gonna talk about him as a kid growing up in Portland and then in Vancouver, Washington, Vancouver just Overwhell. Let's let you tell him where exactly it is, what what motivated him? Who did he idolize? How did he make himself in to the player he became in. Why did you choose the
University of Washington. I know there's actually a lot of people that are probably listening to podcast, like, no, Dan dick I went to Gonzaga, and he transferred to Gonzaga after playing a year and a half at Washington like he yes, but Washington and Gonzaga was not It was not his dream schools. There's an interesting tie that binds the two of us that I will get to. I'll get to, um, including guys I was recruited by his
dream school nearly went there. It was like, tell him I didn't, He'll tell me why he didn't go to that same school and then and then he went to what. Well, there's a bunch to get to. So you're really going to enjoy this without further ado, my guy, Dann dick out. So, UM, it's fascinating, fascinating to catch up with you on this level, because yeah, I would love to talk about current ZAG hoops right and Zag's Iowa this weekend and we'll try and get to that. But like, I feel like you
were Tebow before Tebow. And and I don't mean that from a religious background. I mean it in terms of like a a cult following where like every white kid was like every white dad and there was like, man, you can dick out. That's the dude, Like if he can be National Player of the Year, you can too. You're you started playing basketball where you know that's uh,
that's a funny comment. And and actually I appreciate that I've heard that from a number of coaches you know, about five six years after I was done at Gonzaga that every kid they recruited or an AU coach thought they had a kid to recruit had the long floppy hair, and my name was thrown out there. So it brings back some interesting and unique and fun memories, that's for sure. But I started playing basketball. I was born in Portland. I moved to Vancouver when I was in second grade
with my family, but I remember in Portland's um. I actually had three hoops at my house as a little kid. In our basement, I had a hoop that was probably you know, like it wasn't one of those plastic little type coops, but it was. It was a hoop that went up on the wall, you know, probably no higher than than six ft in. My parents used to say I would be down there for hours on end, even when I was four or five years old. And then we also had a hoop on our driveway that was
ten ft um in Portland. And then in our backyard we had a tree and we had a backboard with a rim on the tree. So as as a kid in Portland, I had three different hoops to choose from. But I didn't play on an organized basketball team until we moved to Vancouver in the second grade. But back then, the y m c A only started teams in third grade. So third grade was the first time I was on a on an organized team. And I think that's something
that's so important. I see AU team starting at like fifth sixth grade now, and they're traveling across the country. It's like, you don't even know how to jump stop, you don't know how to screen, you don't know how you don't know how to pass. It's uh, it's become
a completely different, uh set up. But that's a that's a whole another conversation for that that could honestly, like just so you know, so it's it's fascinating because so I'm coaching my son in an AU program and and you know, my dad did it, you know, for us. And he came when he got fired in college, he
went up to Oregon State for a year. He came back, he was doing some scouting, he was coaching some minor league stuff, and he started at a necessity for my brother, and then he would coach like high level high school like back then was travel ball teams, right and anyway, So when I moved back and my son was, you know, third grade. I took him to a fourth and fifth grade workout and I had the exact same thought where I'm watching and I thought that the workouts were good.
I just thought that way we we for you like skip things like, hey, they don't know how to jump stop. Hey, you know, they don't actually know all the rules of basketball, Like there's a lot of things they don't know that. And I don't know if it's because, you know, basketball camps back then were more teaching warrented. I don't know if it's as we watched games more on TV, Like
do kids watch TV? Yes, but they watched a lot of YouTube, and they watched a lot of you know, highlight reels on I G right and snap and these other things where there are no jump stop videos on YouTube that have a million downloads. Right, but but but last I checked, you can't make all these plays if you travel every time we get the ball. So it's a fascinating experience. And then what I've found is that the right parents that get it, they end up gravitating more,
at least in the current moment. I may have another pod with you. They're like, wow, wait, you actually coach them. Yeah, you actually make them running offense, like, yeah, we're playing We're not playing zone, dude, We're not We're not doing that. We got to teach you how to guard guard your man and how to help and how to position your feet properly and all these things. And it might get us beat because you're not as athletic as another duo. But that's okay. It's a it's a marathon, not not
a sprint. I want to go to Okay. So, Vancouver, Washington, right is right on the border of Oregon. Yeah. So if you've you've flown into Portland many times, I'm sure, right, Doug. So the Columbia rivers right there. The bridge that you see when you land at the airport that takes you to Vancouver. So, uh, you go north from the airport, you're in Vancouver, Washington, and you go south you get into the heart of Portland. And so, you know, I grew up. When we moved to Vancouver, we were fifteen
minutes away from from the Rose Garden. They call it the Motor Center. Now I never will call it that. It's it's the Rose Garden, sure, so um, but it's it's it's fashionating because that's been like a little well spring of especially Gonzaga players. But it's a good little best. But was your dad a hooper? Like what was you had three hoops up that he just loved it or what was it? No, my dad was actually uh a golf teaching professional, um before he got into pharmaceutical sales
when when I was, right before I was born. Um, so there there was some athleticism there. He hand eye coordinates and he liked basketball, but he didn't play at any high level. Um. But you know, I think, as with any kid that ends up having some success in in any sport or even any endeavor, if whether it's you know, another hobby, you gotta you have to love it on your own and you have to be passionate enough and driven enough to just spend countless hours on
your own doing it until you perfect different things. Um. And that's something that I was always willing to do. I mean, I I never had video games system growing up. I think the first time I actually had a video game system was an Xbox when I was at college at the University of Washington. Um that it wasn't even mine,
it was my roommates. And I thought It was the coolest thing because that was back when college players they had the college Game, but they couldn't use your name, but you had the number and it looked exactly like you. And I thought that was the coolest thing that I
was on the game. Yeah, I was black, actually couldn't shoot, which was accurate, right, I was black, super fast, really past, but I could, but I was I was they changed by race, which I'm actually actually really kind of good with, right, Like that's that that that I don't take that as a negative in in any way. Um, it's fat So okay. I grew up shooting hoops at Garrett Phipps's house, So
I grew up in its. Six years old, we moved to Orange, California, and our driveway was slanted, and so back then you didn't have the portable goals, right, you couldn't. By the time I was in high school, we had one on the sidewalk that you could shoot in the street. But as a kid, they didn't have those. So I
actually never had a hoop in my driveway. Ever. I had to go like six doors down and here the kid, Garrett was my brother's age, and he had a flat driveway and so I go and I just asked his parents for my somebody asked his parents when I was really little, like he likes to come shoot. It's the exact same thing. And I used to play imaginary games just all afternoon. I would do I would be the
announcer and the player. I would announce the game as I play, or I I had introduced myself and I do high fives with all the plants on the way down to Garrett's house and I go and shoot. And then my my brother, who of course has been an assistant coach for twenty five years, he that wasn't his thing, like he wasn't a self motivated guy at that point
in terms of hoop. So they used to kind of camp out in Garrett's parents garage because they had these takaate posters and the kakati posters were basically topless women beer or maybe skimpy bikinis or whatever, and they would and they would make fun of me, and I'd be out there shooting. So it was always your driveway or was there a local park that you are that you went and you you kind of honed your game. So
when we moved to Vancouver, that was second grade. And luckily a couple of years after that, I was my parents we joined an athletic club called Club Green Meadows and it was about seven or eight minutes from where we lived. UM, and my parents would take me there as as often as as they could get me there. UM. I became old enough where they just dropped me off for a few hours and I'd be able to shoot um.
You know. But the unique thing about that place was, starting from a young age, they had three courts and so there were six hoops. You could always find a hoop to shoot on regardless of the time. UM. And the other cool thing was this was before NBA teams had practice facilities um where they would open it up for the other two road team to come practice at the day before the game, or a lot of colleges
would host teams for practice. So the Club Green Medals was such a good facility that NBA teams would come to Green Meadows in Vancouver in practice the day before they played the Blazers. So as a young kid, I was able to watch NBA practices. I remember watching the Spurs, I remember watching it was the Bullets at the time, the Hornets. I watched a number of different teams at the NBA level practice as a young kid, and I just sit there watching and start kind of picking and
choosing different things to watch in different guys. I remember I got to to meet west An so years later I met him again during the NBA draft process and stuff. But I remember meeting west On so because he was a coach at the time with the Bullets. I remember
Liddell Echoes if you remember that name. I played one on one as a as a like a sixth like a seventh eighth grade against Joe Wolf when he was with the the Hornets, And so I was able to kind of really um see the NBA game, pick and choose different things that different guys were doing in the practices and then go out and work on that once they left. And it was a really unique experience for a young kid, because what what kid gets to do that.
So fast forward a few more years being at Club Green Meadows UM every Tuesday and Thursday afternoons, they would have open open runs and it was with the old guys. And you know how it is, Doug, as a young guy, you gotta kind of earn your stripes. You gotta earn
the ability to be on the court. And so when you're an eighth grader or ninth grader and you're playing against you know, whether it's a twenty five year old guy who was playing in college two years ago, which there were plenty of there, or there was a forty five year old guy that's a city league legend. If you're the young guy wanted to get on the court, you gotta figure out, Okay, well you win, you stay, you lose, you gotta sit for forty five minutes. Nobody's
want to do that. And then if you are the young guy who screwed it up for everybody, you're not getting back on or you're not gonna be inspired to play, You're gonna you're gonna be told to go, hey kid, go shoot over there. So I figured it out from a pretty early age how to compete and what it
would take to win in a team concept. And then as my skills grew throughout high school, you know, I was the guy that all the old guys wanted on their team, whether they were a fresh out of college or where there they were an old guy because they knew we were probably what we're gonna win. Because my skills kept getting better, and better. Um. So I credit Green Medals for a lot of my my basketball career. So I was I was two places racquetball World. Um.
And what's fascinating. So my best friend in basketball, my best friends in life is Miles Simon. Um. I know you know, well, Miles and I started playing together in fourth grade. But what's what's interesting about Miles is he grew up in a town called Placentia, which is really really so close to Fullerton, and he played at racquetball World. There's only two racketball world, I believe in Fullerton. I
grew up playing at Rackball World in Santa Anna. Like we lived parallel lives where our dads would take us to rackeball where my dad was a racketball player and we would play like all day, but we didn't actually play with each other for the most part until like high school. Were like, you play rackball World and we're best friends. We occasionally go to each other's rackball World and we'd have sleepovers, but but that was that was it? Who is your idol? Growing up? Like, there was there
a guy that you tried to embulate? Yeah, I had a couple of him. You know, every kid that was our age, Doug and I would imagine you would say the same would be Michael Jordan and that's the easy one. He he was greatest player of all time. He was unbelievable to watch. Um. But for me growing up in Portland, I love Jerome Kersey and Clyde Drexler, But bigger picture in the NBA, I love John Stockton um. And oddly enough, all these years later, John and I are good friends
and I get two friends all the time. I mean, the craziest ship ever was I knew that. I mean I had to feel like. First of all, Jerone Kirsty was one of those guys, why didn't he shave his head? He was like perfessionally going bald, Like, why didn't he shave his head? He used to watch him the NBA finals.
And then you know, Clyde was Clyde was like you know the Pacific Northwest Jordans like, well we got we got right, um, but but it is we obviously we can skip steps or whatever, but that is fascinating, right. You grew up, I had lighting this guy and all of a sudden, like now you're in his morning workouts and you're playing at his school and in many ways, surpassing everything he did at his school and now years later your close friends, like you're a mentor to his son,
Like all of that stuff has to be just fascinating. Yeah, it blows my mind sometimes, you know. And it's because like I'll make a comment at at home to my wife that hey, stocks has got open gym this day or whatever. He She'll just look at me Stocks like, yeah, John Stockton. Everybody up here that that knows him well
just calls him stocks Um. But you know the reason why is I was a understized white kid from suburban Portland, Vancouver, and you know, you tend to gravitate towards and look to the dream about, Hey, if that person did it, maybe I can do it if I work hard and things work out. And so I kind of always looked at it as, hey, when I'm big, I'm probably gonna be no bigger than John Stockton when I'm fully grown. Uh he's good at this, this and this. Well I need to try to be good at those same things.
And you're right, I mean, it's uh, it has come full circle when I get a chance to go down and and play in his his open gym's Uh, it's a lot of fun. I mean he still plays it. I mean, shoot, I'm forty two now, he must be fifty five fifty six and he still plays. You know, he's got a mix of guys, whether they're high school kids, uh, fresh out of college kids, guys playing from overseas, or some older guys. He's got a nice mix of guys
that play in his open gyms. That's amazing. Okay, why you dub and it's amazing because like there's a I want to have a part of my boy, Chris Johnson. Um. I grew up as a u c l A fan. We moved out here and my dad kind of befriended Sam Gilbert, who's like the legendary booster at U c l A. When Walt Hazard was the coach, his two sons, Jalil and Rashid were teammates in mind. We we had him on our travel teams. Whatever, stay the night at the house, I'd be ball boys. Sometimes we had season tickets.
When Jim Herrick took over, like he would help. He tried to help coach Herrick and I was offered a scholarship there and did not go there. And you know, all the kinds of myriad reasons. Why was was you dub like always your place with like why you dubb out of high school? No? I actually I wanted to go to University of Oregon UM. I went to one game at MATC Court. I believe it was my freshman
year of high school. Jason care would have been a freshman, so it would have been Jason King was a freshman, so the only year in college I believe it was. And I was blown away by Matt Court, like just the energy in the building, how cool it was on the outside, how amazing it was on the inside. And you know, at that time, I wasn't being recruited by anybody.
I was a freshman in high school. Yeah, I was playing varsity, but I still at the time, I was five nine forty pounds, and nobody, nobody myself included, knew what to expect my career. And so fast forward a couple of years, and I'm good enough to now be recruited in the start of my junior year by uh, pretty much everybody in the West Coast Conference, some of them in the Mountain West, I would say, Washington, Washington State, USC, Stanford were recruiting me. But Oregon was the school that
I wanted, like I wanted to go to Oregon. And my high school coach, um he called them probably monthly. Hey I got a point guard here. These others it would have been so somewhere in there. But Jerry Green, Yes, unbelievable staff by the way, and and and you you'll be amazed at how are There's a bigger connection than you think. But the staff for people don't know mark Ersian right, Yep, yeah, he was there. Darren Kaylish, I
don't remember. Okay, So Darren was. He's from southern California and he coached team he was a coach with Team of Villa. Team of Villa's claim to fame was among other people they had, they had Keith and Horn and Darren went from Oregon to um uh to working for Adidas a long time. And then I think he's I think he manages people's money in the in the NBA
now whatever. Darren's great dude. And then Tad Boyle was the other assistant when I I know because I visited there in nineties seven spring of and I and and my background in mac Court was my dad was an assistant for one year at Oregon State, a C. Green's last year. I'll never forget. And we stayed down here and I'll never forget that he called me. He's like, who's the most unbelievable atmosphere I've ever seen? When we played at Oregon there gym is like made of would
and so the whole thing shakes. So we're at the pretro line and they had to stop the game because the students kept making the goals sway and I was like, it's like your dad telling you're like no, right, And sure enough I go and visit. And in the spring of ninety seven they play Arizona, who like a month later win a national championship. Jerry Green's the coach. Kenya
Wilkins was their point guard. He was amazing. He was an l A guy I think Dorsey High School and he was one of those guys that just junkyard dogs, scoring one, tough as hell, right, And it was the best atmosphere I had ever seen in my entire life. But here's the downside to it. Okay, and I want to hear why why they were so late and recruiting. I go and I had just been to Oklahoma State on a visit where I played my freshman year of Notre Dame. I left, I sat at a junior college
blah blah blah. So they're like, you'll sit, you know, normally you sit in a section. They have like, you know, a girl who's a host whatever, you know, even on visits whatever, and they have people come and introduced themselves. Back then at matt court Um, the players sat on bleachers with like little pads in the front row of the bleachers. And then as a recruit, my knees were literally right behind the bench. So I'm sitting behind these guys.
And Jerry Green came from he was like a North Carolina guy right where he I'm not not in terms of where he was, but he was in that North Carolina basketball background where they were constantly subbing guys in and out. Point guard called the defenses whatever, but they he it was like a turnstile with the guys subbing. And now, and you know what happens when you take dudes out in college, they come out and they all they did was motherfuck's right. They won the game. They
beat Arizona, who was a more talented, unbelievable team. But they come out of the game and every bit and gripe about everything they're doing. And I was like, oh, oh, anyway, okay, so why did they offer you? What what happened? So, like I said, my high school coach called them probably once a month and hey, I got this kid. He's being recruited by such and such schools. His dream school is Oregon, and they showed no interest none. I don't even think I got a single. You know, they they
sent the questionnaire letters. I don't even think I got one of those. So then after my junior year, I've got to have a good spring and then uh, in the summer, I go to to Nike All American Camp and I make one of those three All Star Games. And as soon as that camp was over, they all they do they want you, they want they want me.
But but a month prior to that, they're like, no, we've got the point guard of the future in the PAC twelve Mike McShane, and I had known Mike for years and it was like, hmm, okay, that's that's interesting. So you know, I mean, you're a seventeen year old kid making a decision. I might have been rash and kind of marking them off the list. Once the interisted. But at the same time, it's like, you know what
that that was my dream school. You never even wanted me until I went and played at a high level. You didn't You didn't trust my eval of myself, my high school coaches, eval my AU coach because after Nike Camp here, before Nike Camp, my main schools are Washington, Washington State, Portland's because it was so close to home, Pepper nine because Lorenzo Romar in Stanford, and those were pretty much stayed my final choices. UM. But I did
have a phone caller too with Kansas. I did uh kind of get interested in Penn State in UM and there was a couple other schools in the Midwest, Tulsa because they were just coming off a couple of Sweet six teams with Chasse Seals UM. But really, at the end of the day, I went to the Pac ten and you dubbed because and you know this as well as anybody, all the good players at that time, especially if you were a guard, you wanted to go to
the Pac twelve Pac ten. You had it was guard crazy Terrell Bis, Davis Dotomar, My Mike Bibby, Jason Terry, I mean was a bad boy, so many good players. Art Artley, who was also a team of Villa by the way, Art Lee. Uh and you mentioned brevn then it was art Ly. Then it was a quick story. Uh. So Stanford was one of my final schools as well. And anybody knows, you go to Stanford if it doesn't work out on the basketball, and you're gonna have a pretty good degree and it's gonna open quite a few
doors for you. So, uh, they were recruiting Mike McDonald and myself. That was their final my dad, by the way. Okay, so Mike McDonald and myself were the final two guys that Mike Montgomery had pinpointed in that years because they needed a point guard. So I had a home visit set for Mike Montgomery and one of the assistants I think on a on a Wednesday, and if everything went well, I was gonna go down the following weekend for a campus visit. Well, they called me on I think it
was a Monday night or a Tuesday morning. Hey, camp, our home visits off. Mike McDonald just committed committed. So and that's how it is with recruiting unless year know, you know, ump, here's my here's here's my here's my Standford one. Okay, here's my Standford one. So I'll never forget. I was my my high school coach, the guy named Andy Ground and he just retired from saddleback as like the best junior college coach in California. And he had an office right next to the basketball gym, and I'd
hang out there. You know, you get downe with class, you got to practice, you hang out there. We just hang out there all day and I gotta he gotta call Mike. Mike Montgomery called him, um, and he puts me on the phone and he's like, yeah, listen, we went off your scholarship. Um. You know, it's kind of the you and Art Lee thing. You know, they had me slotted ahead of Art or whatever. Art was a tremendous player. We'd go at it in in in a U ball and he's like, look, here's the deal. You know,
will sign you. You'll be Reven Knight's back for two years. You'll play something with him, and then in two years you'll be the starter. And I was like, Coach, I'm just I'm not really interested and I want to go somewhere. I got a chance to start as a freshman, you know, and not definitely as a sophomore, like I ain't laiting two years. I just don't know myself. I can't do it anyway. He was just kind of very, very matter
of fact. And then they took art and you know, the one thing about money and my brother worked for Monny is he actually is a guy of his word. Like his problem was always he's just too honest, right, whereas other coaches, like whole thing was like a five guys, Doug, we played the best five guys. You were like, okay, but you took a commitment from a junior and I'm a senior, like you know, um okay, so you go to you dub and to be fair like at the time, okay,
so I I knew, like I'm I'm with you. Arizona was all the guards. Arizona State was still kind of a little bit in the rogue. You know. They always had dudes that were like like Eddie House, like no real position, but just ballersh right, just ballers. Um. My problem with USC was this is before they built the Galen Center, and they had really good players, but nobody cared, Like nobody went to their games and the sports arena had such a bad rap that it was hard to get guys go there. U c l A won a
national championship my senior year in high school. Right, Cal had Jason Kidd and then Randy Duck. Randy Duck was good. I played with him in the USB L I got was good. But then they had Gianni. He took Gillanni Gardner the year before me, and they had they had they had a team those over the salary cap. Right, Stanford Wazoo you dub now you went to you dub with? Was Donald wattson freshman? You're a freshman's a sophomore year.
Donald would have been a junior my freshman year. Sophomore. Well, he was one year older than me um and so Donald you could kind of see things building at University of Washington when coach Benner took over Um gradually getting better year by year. Donald Watts, Dion Luton, who I think you played with at Oklahoma State, was a year older than me Um. So no, Donald was two years older. Sorry he didn't. Dion was from Oklahoma City, but he didn't go to Oklahoma State. That's that's why you guys
played us, because you brought him home. That's what it was. Yeah, So Deon Luton was a tremendous shooter, and then we had two really good seven footers, Patrick Femerlen from Germany UM and then Todd McCulloch, who obviously played in the NBA for about six years. So you saw the kind of trajectory of of what you thought the program could be. Yea, granted you never you knew, at least I knew we were never gonna be u C. L A or Arizona.
But you know, as a kid, you always want to have a chance to to you know, play right off the bat, like you mentioned, and you want to go to an n c A tournament. I thought both of those things were possible for me. Um. And you know, looking back, Um, you know, the way recruitment went versus the way your first year on campus went really wasn't what I was expecting. And I think that's that's indicative
of a lot of kids. You know, they get told something, they get their their their hopes and their thoughts in one ways and it doesn't quite work out. And not that I was guaranteed to be a starter, but you know, if you looked at the two seniors that's that that played ahead of me in the rotation. Um, neither one were better than me, and and and you know me
well enough. I'm not gonna be talking bad about another player, but I mean it was pretty obvious to me that, you know, I was going to have to earn my minutes, and I earned them, you know, as a freshman, I still played fourteen minutes a game, and and I had some big moments, uh in some big games down the stretch of the season. But um, you know, freshman year didn't pan out quite as well minutes wise as I
had thought or hoped. Um, but we made this sweet six team, which you dubbed hadn't done and who knows how long. So they ended up being a really good freshman year. And then some different things happened injury wise, and then leading into my sophomore year that that made me know that was not the place for me. Okay, So so you skip some steps there, Okay, So no, it's okay, okay, it's okay. I'm I'm my mans scatter
as well. So here's what I remember. Okay, we played you your freshman year and I was hyped because I was. It was like, you like, are one of our first we were I go to Oaklhoma State and the two years before I get there there seventeen and fifteen, and they just they kind of sold me on, hey, we need a point guard, and you know it, actually it's
kind of crazy. Oakland State was a place where everything they said actually kind of came to fruition, right, like, we're gonna move these guys were points to the two and everybody's gonna move down a position or whatever. We'll play a little small and it it kind of worked out. Um, but I remember coming in all the guys and this is this is again how A is a little different now than it was then. They all knew all the guys from that part of the country. So like they
all knew Dion Luton. I mean, I mean, yes, they're like they kept calling keep on shooting Dan Luton, right, They're like and they were hyped because Joe Atkins and Still Laster, who were the two sophomore guards that were trying to be points it became twos. They were hyped about playing a guy who they grew up playing with or against or whatever. And you know, we had a big guy, Brett Roebish who was the transfer of Illinois. He was fired up about playing Mount McColo and I
was like, we get to play against Dan Dick. I like I heard, but I was older, you know, I had sat out, but I had like I knew the A U circuit whatever, and so I was. And then we get ready for the game and he's playing these two other guys and I remember, like Seawn Sutton tell me, like playing the wrong guys playing that he's like playing the wrong Like we're watching tape. They're like they're playing
the wrong guys because you have to. It's one of the things that I actually really admire about Frank McCaffrey and I were talking about Iowa Gonzaga is that he told me when he signed me at Notre Dame. He was the reason I went there, and he told me it's like, look, you have to rust me on this when we get the real games, like you're going to
be the guy because I was terrible in practice. You know, you know is when you get to college, like all these guys are grown men, you don't know what you're doing. And uh, he had the vision of what it would look like eventually, but I what, so take me through what it was like to play for Coach Bender because they, as you point out right, they were building something and but at that point in time the season, it didn't
feel like he gave you the team. Well, you know that's that's a really good point that you make in trusting the coach that recruited you, Fran McCaffrey. So the coach who did most of the recruiting for me when when he was at University of Washington was Ray jack Letty. He ended up being a head coach at Eastern Washington, Utah and that Drake and now he's an assistant at St. Louis.
But he was the main guy who recruited me. He's the guy who I ended up developing the relationship and trust in and and knew he was gonna have my back at camp on empis. The other two assistants, to be honest, take it or leave it. I didn't think they that they trusted me or they wanted me there like Coach jack Letty did, and Coach Jack had Coach Bender's ear. Well, Coach jack Letti got his first head coaching opportunity in August of the summer, right before I
was gonna be a freshman at at you, dub. So imagine that your assistant coach, the guy that's gonna be in your corner, vouching for you, breaking down film with you, talking to you, he's no longer there because he left. And so I kind of navigating everything, kind of blind. Um as a freshman when't and nobody, you don't even don't know what to expect, You don't know who to lean on. Right away, I realized, well, one of the assistants, Byron Borgereau, he's not a fan of mine at all. Okay,
that's fine. Another Eric hughs he take it or leave it. He's he's not really in my corner. Jason Hamilton's who replaced Um, who was on the staff as well. Um, he he was in my core, but he was a younger coach and he was who I don't and he was news, so I don't think he necessarily you know, I had coach Bender's ear. And it's difficult, I'm sure, And I've never been in a position, but I'm sure it's difficult to take a freshman point guard and give
him the ball over to seniors. I mean, you might you might lose those two guys mentally, you know, just
as you know, what's this kid doing coming here? Because neither one of those guys and I've always felt this, if neither of the guys that are ahead of you and are that much older, if they're not heading shoulders better, why not play the freshman, especially early in the season, go through some ups and downs, bumps and bruises, and your team and that individual who's younger is going to be better off for it down the down the stretch of the season. The the well I called the rabbi
in the room. You gotta have somebody who's your rabbi, who blessedes you, who watches out for you, right, And it's really interesting, Like I mean, I remember Paul Graham was an assistant coach. He became the head coach at Washington State, and he didn't really recruit me. So like I I he gave me one compliment in three years at Oklahoma State and here was a compliment. Okay, So Paul Graham's called the Judge. He used to always do this, you know, and like get it out, get it out, Judge,
get it out. Anyway we play I think it was my sophomore maybe my junior year. We play Texas Tech on the road in their old place seems a dump. And it was my Sophoma year and they had a good team. It was there. They were coming off of sweet sixteen as well, um and they had lost Battite to the NBA, but they still had Corey Carr did a really good combo guard named Stan Bonowitz point guard names Stan Bonowitz. Ray Young was their point guard. He
was a scoring point guard. That's Trays Dad. That's how crazy how old we are getting right where guys who'd be like sons are in the n B A say, a really good team and um Cliff owners are sent or he was built like a Greek god and we we beat him and I played really well down the stretch and he like called me in and maybe as my junior, and he was like, hey man, they're really good. You're not doing that stupid ship. Good job, right. That was it? Like literally never coached me, Like, like what
was it like to play for? Like, I don't know. He recruited all the time, right, And the guys that he recruited, those are the guys that he kind of gravitated towards. Whereas like Sean Sutton and Fran McCaffrey, like I literally would talk to them on the phone or in person every single day of my existence. So I totally get when you lose Ray Jackaletti and he goes becomes a head coach, You're like, dude, who's my guy here? Right?
You know who's my guy? And as much as you wanted to be the head coach, the head coach is doing head coaching things you know you you need. I mean, it's just okay, So let's let's get to how how the transfer and why Gunzaga. Yeah, that's uh So after my freshman year, I injured my foot in the summer. Um we thought it was broken and kind of did the whole put it in a cast for a short bit, go to a walking boot, to the rehab thing. Are
you definitely coming back? Definitely definitely coming back. So I get to to you dub In in the fall, and I'm back healthy again at that point, but we're doing conditioning and and my mental capacity or my mental approach has always been if you're if you're dinged up, go ahead, play through it. If you're hurt, okay, go talk to a trainer. Well, I at the time, I still I
didn't know what the difference between the two. So I knew there was something wrong with my foot still, but I just kept gutting it out through conditioning, through fall open gyms and workouts and then practice, and you know, start the season off and I'm starting, you know, I think I started the first eleven games of the year before I broke my foot um and we got an X ray and an m R I and realized, hey,
it's it's it's done. You need surgery. So in leading up to that, you know, it was kind of one of those things where I was playing, but I wasn't myself because I wasn't healthy, and I couldn't do the things on the court that I knew that I could do, just because I couldn't do it. And so then we had a freshman sank You Carry at the time, who is now an assistant coach at Long Beach State under Dan Monson. And this will kind of be funny how it comes for a full circle. Well, he's thank you
Carry as a freshman who starts playing really well. And I can't do the things that are making me or would give me the chance to be a good player. I can't change speeds, I can't change directions because I can't do that. I can't create space to make the right play and a pick and roll. I can't do those things. So I can't create space to get off my jump shot. I'm just playing on one leg game as a Husky. I'm playing in Arizona. I have to guard Jason Terry, the fastest player in the country at
the time. I have to play him on one leg. I mean, give me a breakfast committed to you, dub dub, and then midnight Luke came in. It's true. So finally after that Arizona game, talk with the trainers, like, look, we gotta figure this out. I can't go through an hour of rehab before practice, after practice, and then it still hurts this way. So we get back to Seattle. We'll get m r I. We got a cat scan. Yep,
foot's broken. Uh, going to have surgery the doctor. I come out of the surgery and the doctor was like, well, we fixed it, but I don't think you broke your foot this summer. I think it was a misdiagnosis. Awesome, So I had a misdiagnosis leading into a bigger surgery than what we thought was gonna be. Well, Lo and behold.
During that time frame, Gonzaga starts making a run. As far as you know, I'm watching them on TV and they're having a really good season in w c C. And guys on that team are friends of mine, Richie from who was the sixth grade teammate, We were high school rivals. Casey Calvary was an AU team mate of mind. And I'm seeing these guys on TV getting better and watching the progression of the team throughout the course of the year, and then they give me a call on
you know, and like, hey, when are you transferred? I'm like, what are you talking about? So kind of gradually a couple of the guys keep past through me, like hey, Gonzaga, Gonzaga. So that Gonzaga ends up going to the Elite eight that year, they get to a tournament, make their huge run, And before before that happened, I knew in my mind, before the n c A tournament started, I was transferred and I liked Gonzaga. I wanted to be there, And then that Gonzaga run to the Elite eight just sold
me as like that's where I want to be. Those are my buddies. They're getting better, They're playing in a system that obviously is working. There in the NCAA tournament and the Elite eight, they're winning, they're having fun. I want to be a part of that. So I decided to transfer. Um, Jason Hamilton so no, So I decided to transfer. Coach Benner honestly couldn't care less if I was transferring or not. It was really weird phone call versation. UM,
Jason Hamilton's at home. You didn't go, You didn't go and see him. I went into the office at you dubbed Jason Hamilton's was there. Um. He was the only assistant coach that tried to talk me out of transfer. He wanted me to stay. The other two weren't in the office, but they could care less. Bob Bender, I believe was at the Final four or hadn't gotten back
yet from the Final four. Um, and we had a conversation, and it just, you know, I didn't get the sense that he was particularly wanting me to stay or not wanting to stay. And I decided, you know, it's best for me to transfer. So I decided to. I sent my release to two places, Gonzaga and St. Louis. And St. Louis was because Lorenzo Romar Pepperdine. So I talked to both schools. Lorenzo at St. Louis said, look, Gonzaga is
perfect for you perfect take your visit there. If you don't like it, and if it doesn't, if you don't commit, which I think you will do on your visit, call me on Monday and we'll set you up for a visit out at St. Louis. Well lo and behold, I go to Gonzaga the visit, I I realized within ten hours that that's where I need to be, and I committed on to coach Dan Monson, who I mentioned came full circle, who is now the heck and he carries
the assistant. Yeah, so I commit to Dan Monson. Um. And then right before actually about two months later, he takes the Minnesota job. But I knew that that was a possibility, and I knew and talking to the guys at the program that you know, the program would be in good hands with coach Few and coach Greer being his assistant, and it wasn't gonna miss a beat because of the guys that were there. Um. So that's kind
of full circle how that transfer came about. And it was Honestly, it was the the best decision I had ever made basketball wise. It's it's amazing. I know you have to go. Okay, so we're gonna do just you know, you're you're I'm getting you to commit to Part two. Um from I'm always down to talk. Okay, so but but but okay, so but here here's here's what I need before we conclude part one. Give me your visit because I was told by few that would. And now
maybe it's just with specific guys. You know, when you get there, you go to dinner with everybody and they make you tell one funny story from your previous spot. Okay, so here's here, Like I'll give you an example. And uh I so Jackson what was his last name? He actually transferred to Oregon from Utah. But he's from count of your area? God, what is his name? Shoot order to Utah? He was at David Jackson. Okay, so Jackson Okay, So but he visited Glenzaga So and maybe it was
just because it was Mgara's. But the story that I got was like, Hey, what we do is you coming home? You gotta tell a story about like your previous spot. Right, and his story about about uh about Utah was about Rick Majeri's right, and every no one you weren't allowed to call Rick coach. You had to call him Rick. Right. So he goes, we needed, we needed we need a Rick story. He's like and non, no, I I can't know, we need a Rick story. We're not ordering any food
till we get a Rick story. Like all right, well just the other day, like just the other day, Like yeah, So here's how he told him he was transferred. Rick lived in the penthouse of the Marriott in Salt Lake City and if you and any time you go up and you go see him, but he was always like in a towel. He was almost always naked. I don't know. And so they had talked about him transferring. You know, it is like going into Christmas break, everybody kind of
oh my, do you want it? He's staying. So they're getting coming at the end of Christmas break and like knocks on his door, and you know, you gotta get to call your coach, like I'm sure just a caller going to the office and tell somebody you're leaving him out. Like that's a hard thing for nine, right, Like you invested in me, you believed to me on some level, and I'm out. That's a hard thing to do. So
he's like, uh, oh, come in, come in, David, come in. Sorry, is just getting out of the shower, you know, he's in a towel, and so David tells the story. He's like looking down at his feet, shuffle to you know, Rick, we talked about like if I wasn't happy and I'm just not feeling it, I'm not getting the minutes and I don't know. And he looks up and Majaris's out cold. Now you're like poorn at. You're like pouring out your heart, right,
pour out your heart to a guy. And he's so he's like, do I leave, like nudges him, nudges him again, Oh, David, or oh I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. He's like, Oh, this medication that I'm on, it just knocks me out. And look what it does to my ball. He's got some like swollen testicle. He shows David Jackson. This is the David goes like, hey, Rick, I just came to I want to transfer. I'm out. You signed the release and like literally walked out never talked to him ever again.
So you did that, your experience was not perfect right where Bob Bender didn't we love you, we want you to stay. You became the national player the year. But it wasn't that your visit to Gonzaga, did they? I went to Marquette, we did a case race. We just drank beers all weekend. We went to the Brewers game and uh, Chris Crawford wouldy we we just all we did was I remember was drinking that that weekend. Your
visit to Gonzaga was what happened? It was I think I committed on the first night of the visit at at the restaurant. UH pulled coach Monson aside and say, hey, you know what, um, this is where I want to be. And so they scrapped the us to the weekend as far as having to go to uh, you know, your academic counselor meeting, meeting this professor, that a professor, and I just I went to the gym and hooped. That's
what I did. I mean. Richie From was a childhood friend and a a you buddy, and Casey Calvary Richie From were the same, So it was really just a hangout weekend. Um. Once I knew I was gonna gonna be at Gonzaga. So there was nothing crazy or special to any of my recruiting trips. I was. I was pretty boring. I was wanted to be in the gym. What what did you do to improve during your Red
Tree year? Never take a day off? I was. I was lucky because Tommy Lloyd was a student assistant at the time and we became he's associated head coach now and we became like best friends for for for that
stretch of my life, my career. I mean, he was in the gym every time I wanted to be there, working on just random stuff like jab shots off legged pivot foot jab shots, jab goes, jab crossovers, uh, pick and roll reads where you know, instead of you you make a delivery with one hand, you're making it with both hands. You're making it off a reverse pivot on hook pass, you're throwing you know, Uh, every different kind
of scenario drill you could think of. Tommy and I worked on that year, and he was he was still young enough where we played a lot of one on one as well, So UM team would go out on the road, we would be in the gym every day UM practices. I became the guy that was the focal point um of the other team, whether it was a point guard who could pass it, okay, well today in practice, I gotta just make every single read. I gotta make
place for others all practice long. If it was a scoring point guard, you know, I had the freedom to pull up from thirty ft on the break. If I was a two, I was coming off pin downs, floppy actions, whatever it was. If I was a three in practice that day, you know, I was filling the lane and transition and I was trying to slash. I mean, it was a year where Coach Few challenged me in practice to to bring it every day to help the guys
get ready. But in turn it helped me because I had to kind of fill all these different roles for what they would face as an opponent in the coming days. And it got me out of my comfort zone and really helped improve all these different little facets of the game while I learned how to be competitive and coached us system. We'll break there because you gotta go. But that was a great look into a into what into what led you to becoming a Zag and now you're
you're a Zag legend. But it's just Uh, it's it's Uh, it's pretty awesome. Dan, Thanks so much for joining me. Absolutely without a doubt we will have to do it again sometimes because Uh, like I said, I always like catching up talking hoops with you, Doug. So just let me know when I that's part one and there's there's there's more. Now we got now he's he's at Gonzaga. We still haven't gotten into the first meeting with John Stockton.
Right now he's telling us he's called him stocks But the first meeting, Like, was it like to play for the Zags? What what was that heartache? Like? How much pride does he take in what they've done his NBA journey? And oh yeah, by the way, for a guy that's was known for the hair when he was in college, the floppy hair when he's a kid. Now he owns barbershops too, So and we'll talk about the Zag thing and how this could be the year we getting ready
for the Iowa Glenzag game. In the meantime, really appreciate you listening. My radio show is daily three to six Eastern, twelve to three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sport Tradio dot Com, the I Heart Radio Network in the meantime, download subscribe rate, write one of those reviews. I was told it helps me do it. You can write Doug Gotlieb is amazing. That's awesome. Doug Gotlieb is the greatest. That's also good. UM. I love Doug gotlie but these
are all good reviews to write, and I appreciate that. UM. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy New Year, Thanks for downloading and listening. Waity here Part two. I'm Doug gotlie This is all ball