New Pay For Play Law Gets It Wrong; NBA Workout Guru Rob McClanaghan Talks Training Steph, KD, LeBron

this guy he doesn't want college athletes get paid. He just he wants to keep all the money him south. You know, like, look, I'm just a realist about it. Um no, I don't think I should be paid to play above what they get for a scholarship. Scholars is

pretty awesome getting into college. You couldn't get into never really having to ask for money for food, for clothes, for anything, right, And like what what you're not told is like, well, what if you come from a household where you don't have any money, Like, okay, we can apply for a pell grant and get nearly seven thousand dollars in a PEL grant in addition to the cost of attendance and all the other stuff. Well, you can't work. You can work. I worked. I tended bar in the fall.

I you know, in the summer, if you stay there, you get a job. But you also, like the n c A has created this thing where you don't have to work, you really don't have to, and you've got everything kind of taken care of for you. And and look, there's lots of different layers to get into it. But I think one of the important pieces I believe, I

believe that we all need college. We need that time away from home where you're where you're you're not living at home as a child, but you're also not an adult out in the real world, and you need pieces of the real world. One of those pieces is the relationships that you build knowing that all these people you're around are going to be your contemporaries in the workplace for the rest of your life. Another piece of the real world isn't learning how to manage your time and

your money. That that's really what you learn most in in college, right, is about relationships, building fostering relationships, not just romantic, just friendships and otherwise, and how to balance your time and your money because you don't have you don't necessarily have to go to every class, but you've got to go to enough whom we know what you're doing. And if you want to get a's, you obviously do. But I also think that you need to learn to balance your time and that how are you gonna go

work out? Are you gonna go hang out? Are you gonna study? What are you gonna do with with all of your time? And then with your money, you get a scholarship check, you know, you get five six dollars above and beyond that of your rent check. What do you do with that money so that you have it a little bit to spend at the end of every month. And we've created this system where, um, you know, managing money is a lot is not as important because now

you can get a meal anytime you want. They can't cut you off from meals with a training table or all the things that you can have inside of a training room. And now, um there's additional moneys you can make with working camps and when coaches have these, um these fantasy camps as well, you'll get an additional check. And there's ways to manipulate summer school so that you get paid based upon how many hours you take. You

sign it for eighteen hours. Then you then you cut it down to like nothing in terms of six or nine hours, and you still keep that check. There's lots of different ways in which you can have a little bit of a buffer between the real world and the fake world, but you still need to learn to manage money. And this idea that we're just gonna we're gonna have these small sponsorship deals. You go down to Christ's University Spirit make an appearance, you get five hundred bucks. Um.

Forget about, Well, you can't forget about. But this is gonna hurt I think athletic departments who need that revenue in order to pay for all the things that they pay for. But it's it's also just gonna hurt the general idea of what college athletics is about. Like, look, you're coming here to get everything taken care of. And if you're good enough athlete, if you're good enough of your sport, when you're done playing, you can do as a sign, autographs, you can make appearances, you can get

all that money. You don't actually need it now, And because you don't truly have a value, you're actually just getting paid to play, not getting paid for your name and likeness. It's not to say your likelist doesn't have any value, but really, all it's done is we pull them all together, and athletic departments were able to sell them on everything they do. And that's a lot more

valuable than anyone person individually. But more than anything, it just gets away from the core ethics of what college athletics is about. To the athlete, your sport, your excellence in your sport got you into a college you couldn't get into, got you total support scholastically and athletically you

get your degree, creates these relationships. You are a bount bouncing time, about bouncing money, about how to place the team, about how to play hard, and when you're done, now, how good you are determines what your first second, sometimes the third job is. So so let's go a little bit further into it. All right, I've been I've had when I've said taxes, I've had people like Nick Wright lose their mind and say, you know, that's not a

reason to like it actually is a legit reason. Many of you are in college athletics or you've been around college athletics, so you know that you're not paying taxes on like ticket revenue. You're not paying normal taxes, so it allows it allows those profits to be greater, the net to be as good as the gross or close to the gross. The problem is that like Gavin Newsom does this, or they're making billions of dollars. First of individual,

schools aren't making billions of dollars. So they're twenty year plus deals signed by you know, ten to fourteen member conferences that when you split it up, is the money good, Yeah, but the expenses are also way higher than used to be. Like, we're only taking gross revenue and go like, look now they're making thirty million dollars a year. Yeah, but everything

else costs money. Debt services higher, all the coaches make more money, the insurance is more money, that travel is more money, the offices are more money, the secretaries more like, everything costs more money, and so yeah, the revenue, they've been able to to generate more and more revenue than they ever have before. In collegiate athletics, they're also generating more revenue on the academic side, but no one seems to be attacking that college makes colleges make money off

of all their students. The only difference is the reward for being on scholarship now is actually greater than it used to be. It's a scholarship for a lifetime. The facilities are better, schools are hard to get into, and yet for athletes you still have the opportunity to get in when others would not. You can come back whenever you want, get your degree, even getting advanced degree. And

beyond the field are on the court coaching. You know, you get cost of a tennis now where you didn't previously. The deal is incredible. And this idea that taxes don't matter. Hey, if you start paying college athletes, they can be deemed employees, if their employees, then all of a sudden, all of their things that they get, not just the money and not just the scholarship, all can be taxed. And sometimes some are in fact tax in. Schools pay that already, but now anything they get can be seen as a

benefit and be taxable. And then if they start taxing athletic departments, now all those other sports will of course suffer. So I just I get it. You somehow think that kids could go Why can't a kid go out because someone we're about. The reward is the scholarship. It's an incredible reward. It's hard to get than ever has been previously, it's more valuable than it ever was previously, and you get more once you get there for the rest of

your life than you ever have previously. And yet part of our generations, part of our our makeup, is we want more, which is also why if you have this, it won't stop cheating. Whatever rules you put in place. If people want to go around the rules, they will. If you pay a kid five thousand dollars and somebody says I'm gonna pay you ten thousand dollars, they you know. I don't think the rules as they stand are unreasonable.

Most people who live it don't think it's unreasonable. And yes, schools are making money, but you have to remember they're making money off everybody. Are they making more money than they used to. Yes, they're also spending more money than they used to, not just to get the next college athlete, but also to treat them better when they're there. And the taxes do, in fact matter. So I get that

we act like this is a foregone conclusion. I think it's really interesting because in a couple of years, the NBA is probably gonna take guys straight out of high school. They can already go straight at high school of the che league, they don't, even though they can market themselves there. I'm not sure the n c A doesn't dig in and say, look, if you want to go to the minor leagues, you can. If you want to go go here,

this is our rules. I I'd be interested legally what they can do, considering they're not a free market, nor have they ever portrayed themselves as a free market. Right now, they're losing public against public opinion, but that doesn't mean they're losing in the court of law anyway. So look, we could go round and round, and I think by

now you've heard my opinion on it. I think here's the thing that bothers me the most is if I had to say there were three groups, three groups that have bitched and complained about name, liminas and likeness, all three groups pissed me off, and I I guess I respect at least two of them, that maybe even three. Davin Newsom, he's an elected official. By the way, Look he went to Santa Clara. How much you think it cost to go to Santa claarir imagine if you had

got that for free and you couldn't afford it. But like Gavin Newsom talking about some ship he has no idea about saying the student athlete gets nothing like it. Just in the state of California. The idea that you can go to cal Stanford, you see, like get into these schools you couldn't get into walk away with no

student debt. And especially when you know those athletic departments are not they're not rolling in money like to to to pooh the education and opportunities when you're supposed to be as an elected official, wanting more and more of those opportunities, especially in people from lower socio economic backgrounds, but more than anything like he and Lebron James, Hey, you didn't fucking play college basketball. You haven't earned a scholarship like Lebron, this doesn't affect you. You were getting

paid in high school anyway. Right. That's like the Ed O'Bannon thing, Like Ed O'Bannon leading this charge. Like, dude, Ed O'Bannon, why do you think he signed at un LV and then all of a sudden he goes to u c l A after you know v he gets on probation and by the way, Ed, like I don't know why it's weird, like ed O Bean has always been a super class guy and was a great player in the National Player of the Year and it didn't work out from the NBA, And yeah, I guess he

hasn't used his name in likeness to kill it. But that's a U c l A and a U problem because most everyone else in the real world, if you go to a college and play basketball and have the career that ed'bannon has, you'd be calling their games right now. You'd be around their athletic partment right now, you'd be earning a salary because of who you were. He didn't, and I don't know why that's everybody else's problem. I feel like so so so like Lebron, who this doesn't

pertain to you. You didn't if you played college basketball. I do think you'd have a different perspective on it. Same thing with Gavin Newsom. The last group is the Dukies. Billis is big on this. We've had him on the pod. He's actually a good friend and a mentor. Jay Williams. I don't know if he's my friend or not my friend. I can't tell based upon the day, but I I generally like the guy and love the fact that he's gone through some really dark times in his life and

is now super successful in this profession. But are we fucking kidding ourselves? Like the Dukies all have their jobs because for the most part, they are really good players, sometimes like Jay, great players, but because they went to Duke, it's like their skulls, you know, they have the secret combination, they get the secret handshake, so they they live on their reputation that was established when they played. Jay Williams.

Everything he's done, it's not because he was the second pick in the draft and because he played the Chicago Bulls, you know, or that tragic accident. Like the reason that he has had all of these opportunities was he was a great player at arguably the best basketball school in the country, coached by the best basketball coach in the history of modern day basketball. And that opens doors for

you even ten years after you're done playing. And so for the Dukies to complain about the system, which they benefit from more so than anybody else, I find to be at least ironic, at least ironic, but alast this seems to be a path that many of you think you want to go down. And I'm gonna point this out. It strikes me as the beginning of the end of

college athletics and what it was about. And in this day and age where it's harder to get into and harder to pay for college than it ever has been before, you will go back and you will say, Godlib was right. It was better the way it was. It just was it was better the way it was. Yeah, people in charge make a little bit more money, then maybe you think they should. Welcome to life, buddy. All right, let's

get you to a really, really fun conversation. Robert Clanahan is uh is a the workout guy of the stars. He has a new book out. It's called net Work. Get it net Work, Um. It's really kind of an interesting tale of a guy who was a good player in high school walk on in college to being the guru for so many of the superstars of the NBA. Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Worts Radio and the I Heart Radio app.

All right, let's welcome him into the All Ball Podcast. He's Uh. Rob mcclanahany joins us as uh, I want to talk about a bunch of things. Let's let's start with your journey, because now people reading about you, hearing about you, understanding how you work with so many NBA stars on on kind of perfecting their craft. You grew up where? H Yeah, I grew up in Rhode Island, Creston, Rhode Island, So I'm born and raised there and went through Catholical Boys school here and then end up walking

on to Syracuse. So what they see like you skipped over a whole bunch of stuff like were you how good? How good were you in high school? I was an average player. I hadn't really played my junior year, started my senior one state savorit ship um probably could have played Division two, uh somewhere, but definitely no one, no D one offers at all. So then you you why did you go to Syracuse? Well, initially the plan was seeing the goal there for broadcasting any media kind of stuff.

That's what I kind of wanted wanted to do, and then decided, you know, I'll try to walk on. So you get to Syracuse, you walk on. Your freshman years, you try and walk on. I try to walk in my freshman year and up growing up in Providence when the Big East was you know, the real Big East. Um, that's really I really got in the love of that,

you know, part of the of the game. And um, yeah, I try to walk on my freshman year, remember a get in touch with Mike Hopkins and uh Louis Are and those guys, and they said, you could work out with the team. Doesn't mean you're gonna, you know, make the team unless your dad, you know, doing it's a nice check. And that wasn't happening. So coach, let me, you know, work out with the team. I didn't make

it my freshman year. They took no walk on. So I asked what I had to do, and they said, you know, put out a lot of weight, you know, hopefully you grow a little bit. I six ft and I put on thirty pounds group two inches, and um ended up making the team. All right, see you make the team in nine eight right? That was the team we played against in the n c A tournament. If I recall in Indianapolis, Uh, let's see here how many I can get it? The Neon game on Thursday, I know,

I know those are the best or the worst. It all depends we actually played that game. Yeah, because yeah, because your your season's over, or you get to watch everybody else win and you already won like that. So it became so that team was eaton Thomas Uh, Ryan Blackwell, Jason Hart. Who else is on? Alan Griffin, Damon Brown? Uh. The team was talented, but not very good. Like why wasn't that team better? Yeah? You know, I don't think we had a lot of shooters, you know, Uh, And

I don't know what it was. Man, we were just up and down all year. You know. We we went falling over them and Lewis you know, two or three straight. Um, we just didn't come together what we needed to. And Uh, I remember remember being watching tournament with coach and uh helping Syracuse and we're like, we get that new game. It's just the vibe wasn't good. And then if we wanted, we would have played Ober. I'm right. Yeah, So yeah that was that was the only year I was there.

We actually lost in the first round. Okay, so what what was what did you for your profession? What you

do today? What was it about that experience at Syracuse that you learned that you drew upon, Because I will say that like, and people think I'm like anti Syracuse is dumb whatever, um, But I I do think that I think not playing man a man hurts those guys, uh um, you know, like Jason hart now and didn't hurt Jason hard who became a great kind of tough, hard nosed defender in the NBA and lasted for over

a decade whatever. But I do think that that for four stars, like like, look, they literally don't learn anything about man and man defense during their time there, And there's also kind of a mentality that that has to be changed. Um. Offensively, I feel like hop late in his run there, maybe they like the last Final four team, they ran a little bit more kind of higher level stuff, but it's very very basic in terms of what they

do offensively. I don't know if that hurts guys, but and and maybe it's that Syracuse has had guys that were underrated going into Syracuse that became overrated because Syracuse such a big program and is so successful in the Big East. And then they because they were maybe overvalued, they get to the NBA and they don't outside of Carmela, they don't have the same impact. But I'm wondering what about your experience at Syracuse. First, why did why did it help you get to where you are today? Yeah?

I think the main reason, uh I fall off with the workout stuff initially was because because Mike Hopkins, um you know he's he's really really good at play development. His mentor was was Gurg you know Greg, and uh so it's kind of I didn't know. I just thought where guys out was, you know, put them through which a couple of drills, you know, passing the ball rebounded.

But hop was in there like the same way you played tag from care in the workout things like that, talking trash, sweating and being being a major part of the work not just passing the ball. So I thought that was pretty cool. I was in a lot of those workouts in the guard groups. Um So he was definitely my mentor early on kind of still is and all all that stuff, and uh you know that's when I first learned about working guys out really really can't be And Jason Hart was it was a workout feed on.

I mean this guy was NonStop, you know, he approved every single year. Um So, watching Jay go through the work as a hops what was really cool to see. It's funny because it's like everybody wants a guy like Hop to be I didn't have that, Like Sean Saton worked me out, but it wasn't and he was he was great, but because he did so much more coaching, Like once the season started, I didn't have a guy, and so I didn't feel like I kept up with

my workouts and you know, look, my thing became. I didn't think I could shoot, so I wouldn't shoot, and nobody believed I could shoot because I didn't believe myself. But I didn't have anybody kind of supporting me. Like That's kind of the magic to what hop does, right, is that is that not only does he is does he work you out, but he gives you this un dying belief in yourself that you think you can achieve, which allows you to achieve. Yeah, his energy is ridiculous,

you know, and he's always positive. You know, Jace Hart and him were extremely close. Um, and he believed Jason And again he was kind of like that too. You know, nobody he couldn't really shoot that much. Uh, no one believes you could shoot. And at a times Jason and he could shoot. And Hopp was the one, like you just said and made him believe, you know, through the work.

And it's kind of like when I work guys now, you know, if you work at all summer, you go into the season like you're confident you're gonna make shots. You know. It's I always say, it's like you know, taking a test in high school. If you have an exam on Friday, study all week, you're going there pretty confident. If you're starting the bus Friday morning for the first time, you're going they're like, oh god, you know, I'm not gonna do well. That's so app was really good at that.

You know, he helds you accountable. If I mean there were times hot if you didn't show up a workout, he would go to your room again, get you up, literally, you would do that. Um. His energy was great and and every practice in all my years Syracuse, they still do it. Every practice starts with play development. It was you know, twenty thirty minutes God group, big group, small forward group. And at that point it was uh, you know, Bernie Fine Louis Or and then Hop and then later

on his Trey Weaver. But and that that was a big thing of Circus, just just getting better, you know, practice weren't long because we didn't really have to scout too much, you know, the zone and that kind of the stuff, So it was really just working guys out before practice, at practice, and after practice. It's fascinating, fascinating how different and and Hopps told me that, like, it's one of the things about playing his zone is that you would be amazed at how much it allows you

to focus on other on other things. Um. Okay, so your last year's heer incuses one year, so oh one we um. We started out nine oh and uh. We end up losing in the first round of the biggest tournament to Miami and that killed our seatings. We were probably gonna be a two seed because of that loss.

I think we're the only nine one people lost to nine seat because I lost in the fourth season and we ended up playing um Michigan State since sixteen in over Hills, and Baham was not happy about that seat obviously, but you know, it was it would be Kentucky in the second round in Cleveland. We have vatation on Prince and those guys, but one by point, and we were

feeling good about ourselves. We're a really good team, and I think we were up like fifteen half on Michigan State, and I remember the first place thinking to come out of the second half is ill drew up a play for like, um back to a screen to mope finale you open the place went now said that was it. They just I think they wanted that, like twelve. It was a thirty points waying something. The second half wasn't

it was incredible. So that was a tough way in the season because that was Yeah, I think you know we were final four team, but the seating didn't help. And then losing in the first round the Big East really killed us. So you graduate and then what and I want to coach in college? So um, they had made a call for me to uh Seth Greenberg without even really interviewing. I got the g J out of South Florida. Wait wait before you, before you, before you

get to the South Florida one. Yeah, didn't you play for Syracuse against Providence, like your your last Providence game your senior year? What was that like? So it was actually my junior year. Um, so it was the UM two thousand, So yeah, two thousand was my junior year. That's when we lost Michigan State. So that was really cool because I have my family has seven courts, I see, and that's how I grew up loving the Big East.

And uh so it was funny because we played out Providence for eighteen and at this point and about to the nineteen oh up big he puts me in the game. Place goes nuts, and my family and my mother and my father everybody, and you have to sign about the orange man that went like all the way across the frest room opposite. You know, you gotta be kidding me, um,

but it's Grady got gotta shot up, missed it. Um. But that was really cool because that's where on the state championship too, at the civic set of day at the dunk and so you know, kind of game full circle for me. So that was pretty cool moment. Alright, So Beheim calls Seth Greenberg and gets you a g a job at at at South Florida and full disclosure, I know Seth Seths like uh like kind of like an uncle to me. Right, he used to be a long Beach state when I when I left, when I

left under Dame. Um he recruited me. I know, you know Brian yank Kelovich I think was on staff there, so is Dave zim roth um right and Clive one Right who played it was great player at pitt obviously is his long time right right hand man. So you're fresh out of college, all you know is probably all you know is Rhode Island and Syracuse. Hoop. You show up at South Florida, What was that like? Yeah? I joked with my mom's car, drove down in my inner

cameray and moved into Tampa. There were in the campus, and uh it was cool. I kind of did everything, you know, look at you a dones. I helped break down film actually where guys out. I was actually back up point guards for practices. Um, so it was a different Uh. I didn't realize that college was like that in a sense where it's not a lot of basketball, you know, it's it's making sure you know, kids are in school and make sure that they get said, we're

running camps, recruiting, sending out letters. You know. Um, you know you can't work guys out more than like an hour week, you know. So in that sense, I wanted to be on the court, you know, and and then enjoyed as much as I thought I would quite honestly, Um, you know, but me and Yank became very close friends. He was my roommate on the roads and rough so he was a great guy. And talk Jo Casino, She's done a lot, have been Kenny and those guys so Um and Clyde. Ball was great. So I I had

some good guys around me. Um, but the experience of not being on the court all day long and I didn't really like UM. So I ended up, you know, leaving there at May. But we had a good year. We're seven and oh we we like four fifth game of the season, I'm sorry, eighth game of the season we played at Syracuse, which was crazy. So, you know, six months removed in Syracuse. Here I am, you know, on the other bench, um and when I'm losing the game that was That was my only scout of the

year that was with Syracuse. So so you you leave in May and what you decided to do golf in your own then yeah, it was while I was down there, Doug, I met the guy's IMG academy, so you know, everything happens for a reason. And I met Joe Buona Star and those guys IMG. And that's when they had junior Collee didn't have any facilities for guys out at and I was like, wow, you can work guys out for a limit. This is this is kind of cool, you know.

So I went home, I went back to my high school, Bishop Henderton High School, became as that teacher, moving my mother. So things are going really well. And uh and every summer because that summers off because I was a teacher phys that teacher. And I interned at IMG Academy with Joe and rebounded for Garnett TYLERU, Tayshawn Prince, uh Al Harrington and uh, you know kind of that's my first looking to really you know, working guys out, you know, full time for a job. Um, okay, so when did

when did you make it into a job. Well, then Joe left, I m j O six so seven open the facility Impact Basketball in Las Vegas. He took me his right hand man did that for a year. That was like Jared Dully, Ryan Gomes kind of guys um

heel fear. And then I met bj Armstrong and Bob Myers um and on Tell Worsenman and I was recommended through Troy Weaver at the time, who I think it was with these thunder of Jazz and Troy was my assistant in Syracuse by senior year, and they wanted to work out guys full time, which I didn't even exist. So we arm flew me into his house and Bob Myers DJ and UH came up this side theady. Let's high about full time? Do you a pre draft work was out in the summer sat Monica's High school and

UM see guys during the year. They had a guy like that before a little bit part time, you know, neil o'sha was now with the Blazers, but after me I to him, it was they brought me in. But

this time it was full time. So who was the guy who you first uh kind of became their guy and and and and had kind of that first initial relationship with because that's generally kind of I feel like how it works is like, yeah, you were working for arn and working out all his guys and and popping in and and but there's usually a guy or two that you connect with UM that really kind of uh nights you, if you will, to the rest of the

NBA community. Yeah, definitely, I rewinded a little bit. My first couple of guys that I had pro were Ruben Garces who was a pro the time overseas and Ryan Golds was the junior or Providence and Ryan I worked at Ryan Free became all American um and then he went pro kept me on. But my first big break was getting at the ABC D camp and Uh, I hounded Sunny. I mean hounded up this story in my book about how I fact his house every day for like fifty days. When we returned my course, I literally

fact this house. Finally, Robbie Harstein calls me the directors that you got a stuff fact and he said you're in. You're in. So that was a big break I got in my first year I coaching Matt Doherty. Um, we're just good fire to the Carolina and uh he met Sonny and I said, thank you, said who you? I said on Roy mcclinic, and you go, oh yeah, yeah, thanks. Yeah. Every coach in the world called me you facked my house. I liked your persistence, but man, and from there we

became extremely close. And that's where I met Derek Rose and Kevin Love. So you fast forward to when Arn't hired me. He end up signing Derek already had a relationship with Derek Kevin when with a little Asian if I still worked him out. Um, And those are the first true guys that became extremely close with UH. And then Kevin said, and I bring in my roommate, you know. And it was your roommate. This guy Russell he played a little bit last year. He's all right, mind he

comes by. It was Russell Westbrook. So crazy because then you know the o A draft. You know, we're in that class. And I had had all three of those guys on top of Brooke and Robin Gallinary and did you the stand? So it happened very fast to me. But I would say Derek and Kevin and Russell was my first main group, you know, for three years every day. That kind of helped me get to where I want

to be. Um. In your book and the book is Network, Um the in in the book it it does talk about Kevin Durant as this ridiculous workout fiend like he and I have. There's a story Scotty Brooks told me Um. And Scotty told me, I remember he was back when he's coach in Oklama City. He told me the first time they made the playoffs and they lost the Lakers, they had exit meetings like the next day and he had Kevin in and he goes, what are your plans. He's like, I don't know. I just I want to

go I want to go hoop. And he's like, Kevin, listen, you've been hooping, you know, since you got in the NBA, Like I want you to take two or three weeks and not touch of basketballs. Like I got you. He's like, so he literally called put on speaker phone, called this travel agents, like, hey, we went to this island, like I don't know the multi eaves or something like I'll set you up. You'll go like, don't hoops. Oh, I

got you. I'll figure it out. So he's like, all right, where you going now He's like, well, I'm going back home. He's like, okay, check in with me tomorrow, but don't hoop. Give give yourself a couple of weeks to just clear your brain. So the next day he couldn't get ahold him, couldn't get ahold him, couldn't get ahold of him. Finally

he texts him back. He's like, uh, He's like, you know, like everything okay, and and he's like, yeah, I'm just checking in with you, Kevin and Katie's like, sorry, I was just hooping for the last three hours, right, Like, he's ridiculous that they had to like dial back practices because all those guys in Oklaham City just could follow his lead and he would have these like hour and a half two hour workouts after their practices, and they felt like it would hurt the hurt the team if

they were doing long practice. In addition to so, what was is he of the guys you worked with? Does he have kind of the greatest energy for working out or who else is in that class? Oh? Yeah, he's probably no. I mean he's right there with Russell Uh Russell one guy I've had a turned down. But the Durant thing is is right out of que I mean, Durant would fly me in once a month for five years work come out in season. Now we would just

go thirty minutes, um minute. But it's it's crazy because you know, okay, see that they have very strict rules about having people come in, even though it was close to Sam and obviously Troy Um. They don't want to bend any rules for anybody. So I remember saying to that may listen Kevin Durant, He's gonna find the gym.

So but we just came back to the rules. So I remember one trip being Kevin found like this little church gym and it was about an hour and twenty minutes round trip just to work out for forty minutes a kind of night. Um. And you know, I told the story on Botus podcast the other day about we flew to Paris from l A one time and uh, we got stuck in on the private plane in New York and we we had delayed six hours and land in Paris. It's the fifteen trip. We land at midnight.

This guy wants to work out right now. He could tell those guys that, you know, a front to find the gym. I said, oh my god. So we found the gym. I think it was like Tony Parker's like club team jam with high school and we worked out like a wan asket and it's one of the best workouts I've ever seen anybody has. And uh yeah, he SE's like like like when when you say when you try to relate to people, it's one of the best. What about what about the workout for example? Do you

remember that made it so happen? I mean, besides the fact that we were all exhausted. We just landed in Paris. It's one of you know, having that in the background. He made every single shot. He his energy was ridiculous. Forget that it was one of them in Paris. It could have been noon. The energy was stop notch um, and it was just I don't know what it was. It's just he made everything. We worked on posts high, post transition and we could have gone three hours. I

was one of the are we gonna stop? It's you know, one through in the morning here. Um, Well, that's just how Kevin is. And it's like, you know that one workout is why he's great when you do that all the time. You know that. And Russell was another one. And I just I beg to take days off. So I know what Scott Wiscott is coming from with that, because one time I said, Russell takes Sunday off, let's get after Monday. Just give me one day. He just rest.

He said, I got you, Okay, you're right, because I always say rest is actually part of the training schedule. I'm being lazy. They wants to rest, you know, so you can recover. And I got a call from somebody c l A might have been like Scott Carson, one of those guys, and he said, your buddiest shoot said, oh my gosh, he's out there working out with his

father on a Sunday afternoon. So, um my, My Russell Westberg story I heard from an NBA guy was, uh, they went to see the Rico Heines workouts at the men's gym, and Russell was over on his own court with the gun, you know, with the machine that fires balls back, and they were like dudes were stopping and watching him because he was going full speed for forty five minutes getting shots up and and just add okay.

So here here's the question though, right, Russell Westbrook is a great player, and he has a great work ethic, and yet most guys, the older they get in their career, they start to lose a little bit of the juice in their legs and their shot gets better. How come by your estimation he struggled last year with the shooting. Yeah, well yeah, he definitely struggled. Um, So I mean, so what's your question? Why why do you struggle? You think? Yeah?

I mean, like I again, it's it's kind of counterintuitive. It's not a work ethic thing. It's not like he's not working at it and it's not and it's and it's honestly not like like his hands aren't bad, like is it was there is there was there something traumatic mentally like why as a guy you know Russell, Like one of the things is when you work out with guys, you spend this much time with guys, you know them

as well or better than they know themselves. Why did he have a year where it felt like a step back shooting wise? In your opinion, Yeah, I think Russell puts, you know, but the pressure on himself and he wants to will his way, you know, to win every game, sometimes on his own. So I think, you know, if you look back, there's some of the shots. I think shot selections love to do with it. Um. You know, his bid range we worked out for years and it's it's one of the best in the game. As you know,

that elbow area is perfect for him. Um, you know, but his films fine, his legs are fine. It's it's a valid question, you know. But um, I think in the end sometimes with him, is it might be just shot selection, you know. Um, you know, sometimes it shoults fade away three. Sometimes we shoot a thirty footer. Um, but when he gets in that fifteen seven and eighty foot range, you know, he's ridiculous that what he shot

from three last year? Um, I know it wasn't good. Um, but I think, you know, hopefully, I think this year, with you know, having more shooters, I think around him, you know, the presenters might go up. I think he might take better shots and maybe less shot too. A Thames out there. Yeah, well it'll be It's gonna be gonna be fascinating. Um, it really is. You know, what about what about John Wall? Like, uh, what what's what's he like? I know there's a story in your book

about him texting you mid game. I'm not sure what what was he texting you mid game? Yeah, I think we're I think it was in Boston and I was at the game, and I think he's he's shot like what have been playoffs time? I guess the Celtics second round. I think he was going, uh, you think he said like one for tennis something and he just said, you know, because I was I think, like second rows, So what are you seeing? Man? Like, what the heck am I doing?

And I just said, simply you stuff? Following through John sometimes you know, when he missed the shots, he kind of flicks it in and runs away instead of the staying with a shot. Uh. And Derek Rose was the same way for a while. But um, that's all I said to him, Just just follow through him and hold it up there. You know. Sometimes you're just flicking and running away. So that's that's That's pretty much it. You know, a lot of these guys haven't changed their shots, you know,

Derek and somebody who didn't have bad form. It's just the might I have a little hits and then followed through And to me, it's not it's not rocket science. You know, I don't need all these gimmicks. You know. You know it's at basketball when you fly in to work out a guy, right and like you come in and now everybody in the league knows who you are? What's that? What's that like for the team? How do

they how do how do teams treat you? How to because teams have their own player development coach as well, many of them. You know, I have friends who they used to do this and then they joined a team to kind of get in the league. And you you come in, you know what, what's that? What's that feeling like for you, how do they how they treat you? How do you handle it? Initially, yeah, it was it wasn't great. Um when you know, no one real knew who I was. And not only that, but it's like

what's going on here? Like because when I started doing this, there wasn't really anaby I was doing it, so it's like, what is this? They don't really know what it was. Um. Fortunately for me, it was mostly franchise guys, so they weren't going to explain too much. But yeah, this is a story one time about the excellent not being happy. It's working at Alt Harford and um, you know he just didn't you know what while you while you flying this guy in right here. And I wasn't saying Nick

was bad. It was just more, Um, I've worked about for three years. We have a you know, strategy and workout that we do. It's just it's just basically you know, maintenance. Um. You know, so yeah a lot of resistance are only on for sure. But as we as we went through the years and I you know, I rotation me a little better, ended up being uh, end up working out

just fine. You know. It's funny when I'm sure, when you're in high school and then you're at Syracuse and we always used to have big guys like man, stop shooting threes, get into the hoop and work on your post game. And now all of a sudden, you know now and now it's the you know, the Brook Lopez is shooting threes where you never shot him before, and it's just it's it's fast. How have how have your

workouts evolved during your time? Because I mean, this has been fifteen years you've been doing it, and the league has changed so dramatically, right, Like, I mean, think of how good a score Carmelo was. Okay, but Carmelo is a great score in the host and in the mid range. And probably the thing he lacked the most was, you know, the ability to shoot the three. Like now the game is so incredibly different. How has it changed your approach a lot? It's funny brought up Brooke because two years

ago when Brooke, you know, I didn't have a deal. Um, he came in and he decided to move to l A for summer trained with me because I get pre drafts were very familiar with each other. They said, dude, I need to get my game. Any book will always shoot, as you know, but you never really was putting a position to do it. Um. So he started, you can work on the reason man picking pop in transition three,

things like that, and I said, let's do it. So we signed a two million dollars deal minimum with Milwaukee, and we worked out all summer long. I don't think we did the post one time. Um. And it was the opposite pre draft honestly, like he all you wanted to do was shoot, you know, tipo a big man, I can shoot two. But I said, you know, you know, a permit a guy. You gotta play your seven one.

You know. So he's got he's got a great feet, he's got great feet, like he's he's very mobile down there, very mobile and great moves down their place slow, which I love. Um. But it's funny you said that because you know, Brooke was the first example that I had of ten years later. It's like the opposite workout when I did with him in pre draft. You know. Wait, so and he ended up you know, uh, killing foo Milwaukee. It's fifty four millions from two millions, I'm making like

you know whatever, thirteen million, fourteen million years. So, um, the game has changed completely, So I've definitely had the tail of my workouts for that. There's no more quote unquote big men and the Kevin Loves a good example about six seven years ago in Minnesota, especially work Aileman we saw doing most stuff with the elbow pinch post um, you know, picking pop stuff with him and kmart Um. So he was the first one. I kind of did

that with Um because I knew we could shoot. But as we went on throughout the years, that's five five years especially, I mean I've had a really work on, you know, teaching these sixteen guys at the shoot agen footers, you know, and now you have six nine point guards and six nine centers. So it's changed completely. In quite honest, if you can't shoot in this league, it's gonna be

tough to stay there, you know. And that's why I think Ben and the Honests really have to work on that, especially in the playoffs, you know, I mean the playoffs from the scarring puts out there and guys are playing you with the far line, and now it's that's that's tough. That's toff um. Okay, let let's let's go to step STEPHF. Curry who wrote the forward for your book. The book is network net like basketball work. Um you first met Steph win Um, I would say about it three year

in the league, before he's an All Star. He was in town in l A doing some commercials and through his agent Jeff Austin, you know, he came in to work out. Um, this is when he's coming off, you know, the ankle injuries things like that, and uh port him out of private Jim and bell Air and the private m bell Air is that the one that looks like Staples? Yes, yes,

pretty much every day. Yeah. And and for for people who don't know, like we won't give away location, there's the gym and NBA T is actually practiced there where that it shoot around and everything. Yeah, where it looks it looks just like the Staples, the same stable center floor or whatever. And they have pick up games there and obviously workouts there, so you you meet staff. What was your opinion before you met him? Um? Well, obviously besides the shooting, Um, you know, I think he had

to get more in control. You know, a lot of a lot of bad turnovers. I think he could do a lot of stuff and less dribbles. But besides that, I thought his game was unbelievable. I heard about his work ethic, and I heard about what a great human being he is. Um. You know, so when we first met, we just I kind of just game a kind of a generic first workout, you know that I do with a guy and kind of get to know each other.

And but it's funny because he talks about in the forward, you know, like five minutes in he was going hard. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna pick up now next, you know, talking trash bumping on and you couldn't believe it. I mean, i know one's had for ten minutes and I'm already in there, you know, you know, garden me kind of like hops on me, you know, and U you know, from there, it's just we continue to have

a great relationship and and intertinuing train. Um. Okay, So so uh uh in terms of in terms of stuff, how did it? How did it proceed? Right? So you have that first workout and was he like was he in? Was he on the kool aid? Right then? Like when can we do this again? Or was it Hey, I'm in l A and you know, uh, next time I'm on l A, I'll hit you. No, we kept going,

he's staying in Lay for a few more days. Um. He came back I think a couple of weeks later, and this is I would say August in our approaching labor day in training camp. And then you had me fly into Oakland for about ten days before training camp. Um. And it was it was kind of cool too because this was a time of boy my eyes just got hired and that was my boss um for a long time. Mark Jackson was here. I worked on Mark Sun for a while, so it was very easy transition to go

in there and working about facility things like that. Verse familiar, so it wasn't one of those things. Was this guy made it much easier for for everybody. Um. Yeah. And then Steph's signing under arms, so I do all his under arm towards in Asia, probably with him to every single one. And then we started the SC thirty camp, which has been unbelievable, the top thirty players in the

country every year. At first it was just guards. Now it's some big stewo um, but you know, I've met a lot of guys through that, and uh yeah, it kind of just some that one workout kind of just took off and and and here he is doing the forward, which I don't really appreciate. So what's what in terms of like this is Miles Simon's one of my dear friends obviously is the He was a player development coach.

Now he's assistant coach with the Lakers, and one of the guys that used to be his guys with Chris Bosh and he tells me the story of um after his first year of playing with Lebron, he was like, look, I gotta work on my catch and shoot like mid too deep mid range stuff all the way out to three.

It's like I've never really worked on that, right, like I've always you know, like when he was in Toronto, like he was given the ball in the post facing up right, so he had to kind of so he's like, all right, like let's let's let's let's shoot some kind of deep midrange shots, you know, like foters shoot a hundred. He makes ninety two, right, and like, I don't think people understand how fucking good these guys are, Like they're they're ridiculous. Like he's like, dude, you should see Rondo

when every shooting drill, like it's it's crazy. Okay, so now you throw in Steph Curry and Kevin Durant, two guys that you work out, two guys that you help hone their craft. What is a Steph Curry workout? Like? Like, does he ever miss a shot? Oh? It's it's ridiculous. I mean I've seen him make you know, leads in a row and you know how hard that is. I don't care, no one's going you and not and and

it's it's just so easy. The one thing about step Katie is the same way if we shoot a hundred straight threes, if they make a hundred or miss a hundred, it's the same reaction. They just move on to the next shot. And that's why they good. They don't get down to themselves. They don't you know, put their head down like some guys and and grow up and moan um that they just so lazy a focus. I mean step just looks at the rim grounds the ball looks at the rim so I passed in the balls really

looking at me just boom boom. It's it's like it's it's world class and it's just complete to me. Just focus when they when they do that, um, you know, and it's step has uh ridiculous range. Man, I've seen them. You know, we'll we'll work on you know, the normal NBA threes, but they will with Katie too, They will work on you know as they do. And they three at the four point shot, you know from out there, so um and and they make them and they and

then they shoot him in the game, you know. Um. So yeah, I know, I know what you know Miles went through because I do the same thing with Kevin Love when he went to Cleveland. You know, he had to become you know what they call, I guess a spacer, you know. And Kevin went from pins post, midpost, you know, maybe trail threes too, sitting the Christian in the core,

waits for the past, you know. So those good two guys definitely sacrificed win championships, and um, you know, I think a lot of guys gonna you know, I really want how to shoot. You're you're one of the guys.

You're you're the guy credited with teaching Lebron how to push back past the fatigue barrier, like one of the one of the Like we on TV and radio, we talked about dumb ships sometimes, you know, um, whereas I think like real basketball talk is you're talking about the the the unbelievable confidence of Durant and Steph Curry, And honestly, sometimes Lebron has lacked that kind of stuffing like confidence

and conditioning and the ability to push through fatigue. How did you You're like, Lebron credits you with pushing him through the fatigue barrier? How how do you do that? Yeah? And I'll never forget if we we were down in um Miami working out with me, him and John Wall and um. And it's just I don't know. I don't know what it is about me. I don't know if it's my dad. My dad was a kind of colonel. And and I since the day one, between these guys just like grown men, the NBA players or m v ps,

and I hold them accountable. Um, if a guy shows up at nine o two, I get pissed. And I think there's other trainers out there, are guys that you know, it's okay, man, you know, don't don't worry about it, because in any other industry, you know, it's you're late for working, You're fight all the time, you know, or I always tell him you're late for the plane. In the NBA, it's five grants, So give me five grants

or you know, don't be late. So you know with with me again, I don't treat them like I think a lot of people treat them. And honestly, they like that. You know. They want someone in their life, especially that's trying to help their craft, to be honest with them, you know, not say it's okay. You know if they don't work hard that day, so it's okay, man, you know, it was the coach's fault. You're a bad game as

a coach's fault. I'm the opposite, you know, And I'm honest with them, and I pushed them to the limit. And my last drills always are the hardest drills. And I always do that for a reason. I always say, you know, you should end the workout, but then you finished, just like you should be better in the fourth quarter. Then you have the first quarter. So I test guys. I test guys at the end of the work the last five minutes the hardest drills I'll do all day, um,

And I do that to prepare them. With too many stuff in the game, you know you're gonna be able to make that shot when you're tired. You can handle the ball, you know, when guys going your full court when you're tired down one. Um, so it's it's strategic, but it's also you know, again just just holding them accountable. And you know, I said give me one hour, so I want one hour a day, that's all. It's it's not nine is five. And I love the guys that said,

you know, I've been in the gymmate hours work correct. Correct. This is one of the things that I think is is amazing to me. It's it's either a lie or you're not getting stuff done. Like I exactly right with younger kids, I tell him, you know, like minutes is plenty, plenty, you know, if you're going hard right, like otherwise you're just kind of like I get parents where I run workouts and like, well we only went they only went an hour today, Like they went hard, They're good, they're done.

Like do you want me to have them do three man weave? If you want to have them to do three man we've you know, sure, cool, but that that's a complete waste of my time and yours as well. Um. Okay, so Katie, well, Katie will go forty minutes with me and this back in the day and no water break and be done for minutes. Rob's the next show once the water in Mexoscope. I'm not sitting there talking for ten minutes in between drills. Done, Go and enjoy the summer.

Like that's it. You know, give me a guy who is going to have a great you spend time with him and you feel like he's gonna take a step this year. I would say one guy for sure, Alfred Payton. Um. I worked to Alfred the last two years, but this is the first really full, full summer that we had together. And you know he signed with the Knicks obviously. Uh, he's comfortable up there. Scott Perry drafted him in Orlando. Uh, it's a team with a lot of guys with chips

in their shoulders. Alford has been known to be an average shooter, but we worked out a shot on this summer. I mean six days a week in l a UM. And he's grown, you know, he's matured. He's more of a leader. UM, and he's confident now. He's very you know when I first spent him quiet, uh, you know, not too sure of was shot. If you opened the seventeen, you know, fifteen foot line, he wouldn't shoot it. But

now one of those things too. You know it's gonna go in there a little swag, look confident and and you know they wanted to shoot this year. So he's definitely got I think I take a big, big step forward. The book is Network. It's uh, it's awesome. You should pick it up. He's Rob Rob McClanahan. Of course, who's a star workout? I mean, would you do? Do you

want guru trainer of the stars? How do you when you when you get introduced when when having beers like is my buddy Rob, he's the trainer of the stars? Is I Is I that what you want? Uh? The trader is fine? Yeah, trainers, Yeah, it's funny with my guys that you know having beers there. This is a guy's the guy told you about it, trains this and that, and sometimes I don't even want to get into it, somebody, if people ask you, no, I'm just I'm I'm a teacher.

So I do marketing because I don't. I don't want to get into it. Some people I don't know. You know, Network, Training the NBA's best and finding the keys to greatness? Rob, great stuff man, Thanks so much for joining me. Thanks appreciate the man. Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m.

Easter noon Pacific. Hey, that's it for all ball U. You can keep the tweets, the liked ones, the hater ones at Gottlieb Show or listen of The Doug Gotlieb Show weekdays three to six Eastern twelve to three Pacific on Fox, Sport Trader, the I Heart Radio app. Remember, download, subscribe rate. Tell a friend about