Hey what I'm welcome in. I'm done Godliba and this is all ball. Um uh quick note, we are going to have a summer league recap all ball for you coming up. I have a litany of really good and interesting guests and um, you know, we've we've diverged at some point from always basketball. We had Maurice Clarette. If you missed all three parts of that, it was pretty
amazing stuff. This week's all ball. I think you're really gonna like because I love interesting, brilliant people, and I really like people that love the sport that you love. But also sometimes you're not good enough to always play it right, but you can still find an incredible career in it. Ty Tyder Amazar is an amazing story. Right. Son of immigrants. He grew up for the most part in um in Norco, California. He'll tell you what Norco
was like forty years ago. But he grew up in like kind of farm country just outside of Los Angeles, really near Chino Hills where the Ball brothers grew up, and became a very good basketball player. But even though he had good grades, wasn't recruited a high level walked on to U C l A got a scholar. Well, I don't want to give away the whole story anyway, Um, how do you become the youngest agent in NBA history? How did he where the relationships come from? What are
his thoughts and agents running teams? What's it like to get fired as a representative of a player? All of that stuff is in here, plus some some awesome stories about playing basketball at U c l A. All right, I think you'll like it. By the way, if you like my stuff, you can listen to dug Outlive Show daily three to six Eastern twelve three Pacific on the I Heart Radio app or on Fox Sports Radio dot com or um. You can also download that podcast at
your at your discretion. All right, without further ado, here's superstar agent Dodd ramazar Um. When you he became a certified A twenty four years old, which sounds really young, but I mean one of the things that's interesting about your basketball life was you really young when you graduated high school. Let's go back. Okay, so you grew up in Norco. Now, for people who don't know where dorcoes, it's really close to Chino Hills. But again we're talking
about Dorko twenty years ago, ago, years ago. Even now you drive into Norco and it says Horse Country US. That right. How does an immigrant family, um from the West Indies, How did you guys make it? Yeah? So I have an older brother, Dougie. He was born in New York. My parents, Um, my parents are from two different countries, Haiti and British Guyana. So they met in New York. My dad was in the telephone company, my mother was in a r N and uh my dad
got a transfer requests from the telephone company. So it was either Florida or California. And I just found this out recently from my mom. She had dreams a call Fornia. She had never been so side unseen. She's like, We're going to California. So we ended up in uh. You know, I was born in Fullerton. We ended up you know, I was born in Orange County. He lived in Orange County until probably right before I was two years old, and then we moved to uh. We moved to Norco
in nineteen I think nine. So as you mentioned with you being from Testin, doug you know, you know, even Anaheim Hills, that whole corridor area wasn't what it is now or even twenty years ago. This is you know, forty years ago almost. So it was more far you know, farmland cattle, more of a Midwest field than anything else. Yeah. Um so, so your love for basketball because you played football and you're kind of a study at football early on in high school. But was it because your your
brother played? Like what what drew you to basketball? Yeah? It was my It was my older brother. You know, I got on the football because of my older cousin. He was eight years older than me. This is back when the Inland Empire didn't have too many high schools. He played in Norco High School, which was was the powerhouse high school Thatton Eisenhower in the Inland Empire before Corona Centennial. So I was always playing with older guys,
my older brother, my older cousin in football. But when my brother started playing basketball at the young age, I just fell in love with it. And then, as you know, Doug. For us growing up in southern California, the Lakers were hot. So my idol was Magic. You know, you're you're you're watching you're growing up in southern California. You know, the Lakers were in what the finals, nine out of eleven years or ten years. I mean, it's hard not to
love basketball. So that's where my affinity for the game grew. And I would emulate. I would try to emulate magic on the on the court. It is interesting, right that your your first big client with Barrett, who's like, it's just a mini magic, right, like a way more athletic magic. That was that was you, Baron remind did everybody, I've just disability to control a game. And the truth is
Baron's not really old enough. I mean, I know he played against him at events Jim, so you know, but not really old enough to have experienced the real magic. There is an interesting kind of full circle to it. Okay, so, um, you're playing high school basketball, but you went to j W. North how fars And for people who don't know j W. North is that's Reggie Miller right, No, no, no, Doug, Reggie went to Riverside Riverside Poly. Sorry. Uh. Quincy Brewer I think was the was right before you. He was
like a two three combo score. JDub always had dudes, right, Benjamin what heym ballers right? Like that was in the Empire was producing some dudes back then. Um Keith and Horne was was he wasn't that for his diamond bar? Right? Yeah? I remember you had you had I'll go through a really quick one team. One team had four starters in the Pac ten on it on that j W North teams Quincy board. I went to a s U ed Grave.
I ended up at now Sonny Benjamin at Oregon State and then Corey Benjamin as well, and then we were all the generation right after. But they went to UH eight finals, c IF Southern Section Finals in a row. Yeah, Traylon Carmichael was right, Yeah, Sean, what happened to him? He was? He was, I mean, we we have to do where the world because Traylon Carmichael. I remember we went to a B C. D and nineteen four and he was three and he was on the team. We had never heard of this dude and he was like
six four. It looks like a football player. He was asked. He was billed deep dun dud the guy was, I swear the guy was jumping off with two feet from free throw line in games. It seems like uh and him and Corey were him Coorey and and Jamal Slaughter were team It's at Fontana after Corey transferred from North but Talented team. Yeah, it was pretty legit back then. Um okay, so so um what education? I was a huge inner in your household? Now is that did your
parents come home and and you know make you do work? Like? How was Why was education so such an important part of your upgrade? I think, you know, I would say this is probably the immigrant mentality overall. It's like, you know, everyone I think that tends to immigrate to the US is for a better way of life, not just for themselves but for their kids. And so like you know, like a lot of immigrant families is, hey, you're gonna
be a doctor or a lawyer. So you know, my brothers or maybe or maybe if you're if you like this Jewish families, doctor lawyer and if you get you got nothing going for your account, give me to count right exactly and and maybe that change are evolved. Now I got I got some Indian buddies or they're like, yeah, Todd, it was a doctor, attorney or engineer, and now it's like okay, entertainment, entertainment, executive other things. But for us, is that's that's the route we took. My brother's owns,
his own practice. He's a chiropractor. Technically, I guess you could say a doctor. He went that route. I know, right, I'm trying to him. Here's here's the here's the here's the thing with Rotor Okay, is not a doctor. Doctor is somebody gets sick on a plane. Okay, So as somebody gets sick on a plane and he says, there a doctor here, like chiropractors, Like, yeah, I got you right. On the other hand, on the other hand, let's be
honest in terms of daily health and usefulness. Oh, when you get a rib out or you're not right, there's nobody in the world you'd rather have than a chiropractor, like on your on yourself beauty of having a chiropractor in the family. You wake up with the stiff knacker has been a long road trip, ten minutes away, I go see him, okay. And then for me, it was you know, I went to I ended up leaving law school when I went to I went to law school.
That was it was kind of you know, for me, that was the path I was going to pursue, but not used my law degree to be say just a traditional uh lawyer from the sense of you know, corporate law or something like that. It was always in pursuing sports as an agent. So, um, take me through the decision to go to u c l A. What was what was it like? This is still Herrick right. They were they were rolling. I mean I would me, I'm the year before and and I turned them down and
they take Brandon oh Man, what's the kid's name? He was from Oklahoma? You know, uh Man, Brandon? What's the news thing? He was a sophomore when you're a freshman. We had Far, we had Far, we had Farnham, we had back would from so so they so Stephon Marbury was the guy everybody wanted, and I was like the fallback guy. And my sister was a cheerlier there. A brother went there, and then I turned down. I go to Notre Dame and then they win the national championship.
I'm sitting there like, are you kidding me? Right? Like I love U c l A Basketball, they win the national championship? What what went into your decision to go there? I mean it was just that Like for me, it was a dream. If you for me growing up playing football and basketball. If I was playing football, I was going to USC You know, that's just what it is. And uh, for basketball, my dream since I was playing that growing up, it was to go to U C. L A. And then so because I satisfied both things.
It was always athletics, academics. Both schools are great, right, I'm proud to be a Brewing and it was it was it was a natural choice for me. But you know, I I checked into school Duck so young. I was seventeen. I was a late wimmer, the top one hundred. I ended up king on because I got turned down some other schools. Like that was my dream. Plus I was competitive.
I thought I could, Uh, I could walk on and earned a scholarship, which I did, And I just wanted to be part of the special class with you know that class out of Southern California. I think we could argue might have been one of the most talented classes in Southern California, right, Chris Burgess, Baron Davis. Uh, you know Shaye Cotton, Kenny Bruner, um, the Collins Twins. I mean you don't like look you go back to I think it's there was a class with Tracy Murray, Don
McLean Um. Uh, I think that was Sean Mills. What was in that class? As well, Um, who else was who else was in that? Chris Mills, I mean Chris Mills, Chris Mills, Derek Martin, like they were all like staying class. That was I think Adam keep was that class together, a crazy class. Then my junior year, which is I actually I was a late little or so I stayed back in eighth grade. So you're seven team in you graduated high post nine team when I graduate high school.
But but ninety four had a couple of your teammates Chris Johnson, Jared Henderson, right, Toby Toby Bailey, um had Miles Simon and had uh god you go through it was that was awesome. My teammate Cameron Murray h Tracy's brother, Tracy's brother as well. Like there's there's been some really really so okay, So when you first get there as a walk on, but you're like a recruited walk on, you're not like a dude. And my brother went there
to walk on. Herrick helped him get in and then um, uh Lou Lou Roe beat Lulu Uh what's his name? He He end up transferring to Clemson and playing and now he's coach at Northern California yeah, well and like nobody knew he was showed up and kicked his ass to tryouts and Greg was like, I didn't make a team, so it was better than me. And he goes on and starts at Clemson. So so when did Herrick give you a scholarship? So Herrick got fired? So my freshman
year laugh, that was Lab. We were LABS first recruiting class, right, so we were all recruited by Romar Herrick laugh. And then then that that was junior year. By senior year and the time we were checking in is when all that all that happened and Herrick was no longer there. Romar had left and laughed as head coach. So we were They componed Eric, they componed him, they got him, They got a expense receipts. Come on, man, they go anywhere else in the country. That that that's a flyer,
Like that's that's a that's a give come on, come on. Okay, So so you're you're a freshman, what do you remember about how it went down? So for people who don't have forgotten, Okay, when they signed Barron, they did some I mean frankly, some crazy stupid ship right like his his sister worked in the bast Ball office and Herrick's son sold him as like Chevy Blazer, I like, I don't even and and it was front page of the l A Times and really was a bunch of other
little stuff. And then they like found the expense report Steele and they But what was it like for you? Like here you are seventeen year old kid from Riverside, walk On trying to make it and all the stuff goes down, there's a coaching change. What do you remember about that time? Lab was my lead recruiter. So it wasn't I didn't get caught up, to be honest in any of it. It was just Lab. Still. You know, Harry got fired Lab coach the year prior in which they went to the lead eight. I want to say,
Johnny went down with an injury to a stern. Hum, there's another one. McCoy. He was nice, yeah, yeah, So you know, coming in it's like their freend, you know for us as a fresh off the championship. In some ways in Nive they made the run the year before. We're coming in with the number one recruiting class, you know, Shae Cotton Baron, Earl Wattson, Rico Hins Moose had just transferred.
You know, I'm walking on and I'm I'm seven, you know, ranked seventy five in the country, and you know, Billy Night, Travis Reid, we were loaded. So there was nothing but excitement. I wasn't even thinking about that. And then, as you know, Doug, you going into the men's gym, playing against Magic and uh and doing the summer program. It was a dream come true. I didn't think twice about it. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live. So you get there, Um when did when did lad give you I'm going into my sophomore year. What was that conversation like with your parents? Um? Oh, they were a static they you know, because I really put in a lot of work between my freshman and sophomore year, and you know, freshman year is an adjustment, you know, as you said, you know, coming in a seventeen.
You know, the seniors were all the guys that won the championship as freshman, Toby j R. Chris Johnson and of course Julie McCoy was there, and Brandon Lloyd, and then you got all these guys coming from all over the country, Rico's coming from hard Grave and St. John's prospect called Barons there Earl, you know, so it was a diverse competitive group. I think we walked away bloodied every day in practice. So for me, it was great.
You know, I can't say I was surprised because that was a goal, but it was great to at least take that burden and and hit that accomplishment of earning that scholarship at u c l A. Okay, here's one of the things that I always found to be interested, So that the national champion team had like eleven dudes that played me. It was like something crazy terms of number of dudes that played the NBA, right, like everybody
I mean, and honestly, Chris Johnson didn't play. But if Chris Johnson was now like guys are stretching guys a small ball four or five, unbelieving some perfect, perfect guy, right, So unbelievable talented team wins the national chance if you got I just had, dude. But and if you would have walked in that locker room and asked how many you guys are going to the NBA. Everybody would have raised their hands, right, everyone wended in your mind, you think like, hey, agent, it was probably my my, It
was probably my I would say going into my sophomore year. Actually, you know, I take that back. If I had to revisit, it's probably my sophomore year I ended up starting. But you know, we we have the number one recruiting class coming in night, followed by another number one recruiting class, Matt Barnes, Geron Rush, Ray Young, Dan Gazer, Restore Moiso.
I mean they were loaded, dude. Yeah, So coming in, putting in all that work, starting for a game or two, and then not seeing the court until the end of my sophomore year in like sporadic minutes, it was like, no, that was a reality check. You know. I thought about transferring and everything, but I was like, you know what, why am I trans for? Yeah, I could play, but getting this degree from u C l A. I know I'm gonna be in southern California, and I knew I
wanted to go to grad school. So at the end of that sophomore years, when I started working for arm telling bearing him left Gon Pro, all the U C. L A guys were assigning with Arn at the time, which was telling the associates, and then that was my segue into the business. At nineteen, I got so many things, gosh, and just so much stuff. Okay, I would make that. I'd make the case Barn towards a c L on a filthy crossover dunks on the dude um in in the n c A tournament. Um, I know we were
in the same region. I saw it. I think we're in saving I saw it happen and um, which but do you that was still there. I've never seen somebody tear their a c L on a more nasty play than that. That was. I tell people all the time that was when he was when he landed, or when he jumped. He jumped so high, Doug and I was looking down the court. He jumped so high his head was the rim eye level. He pulled himself up with his momentum. I don't think Baron knew how high he was.
So it was on the landing. He put all that weight, all his weight on one one leg when he landed, and that's what made it pops. It's interesting he doesn't like me. I still don't know why. We haven't ever
had wept chopping up at some point in time. It's interesting because my because my my dad was like when I because that the year before he when he was a senior, I was sitting out after transfer from Notre Dame, and they basically like, look we get Baron, We're gonna take Baron and if not, and I was like people's second choice, Georgia Tech's second choice, Kansas. I was somewhere down the line or whatever anyway, but my dad was like, look, that's the best high school point guard I've ever seen.
He used to Gilanni Gardner used to be the guy that he thought was the next Man Johnson. And then he was like, Baron's the best I've ever seen. Um, he still had a very very good career, very good career. What would he have been like had he not Doug. I think baroness was such if you really revisit that, you know, and that's our generation when he when he tore it, that was still at a time when the A c L surgery, like the procedure it could go either way like it was. It wasn't like now we're
you come back stronger. So we were right there where like you know Baron tears it in March. He was back playing by the end of that same year. That's the type of freaky was a lot of people don't know this. Kobe would come to our practices the following year, Baron wasn't clear to play. Him and Kobe are playing one on one on the sideline and Baron's wearing this huge knee brace. So I don't honestly if he if he doesn't tear it, I think he's still the same player.
Maybe maybe he's the number one player because maybe we continue going on in in March. But that sophomore year, he comes back and he's healthy, you know, and he was a highlight reel. It still goes number three. Well what I so if you remember his first game back to play against US, I got thrown out of the game and halftime whatever. He flopped into a technical foul. But he wasn't he wasn't moving right yet you're still heavy and he had that brace. And that that month
was December, right, that was November. That was December. Yeah. Yeah, if you think about that, that's only eight months after the injury. Yeah, nine months. Yeah, that's crazy even in today's standards. I'm Thomas Bryant had towards a c L and you know it's eleven to twelve months until they're you know, he's fully back, is what they're protecting. Don't tell me that I tore mine like two months ago. I just got my surgery two weeks ago. But I'm too old to make it. I'm too old to make
a real cup. But my goal is my goal is to play basketball and tennis next summer. That's my personal personal Okay. So so you're in your mind, you're like, I mean between Arntell him and I don't know how Big Wasserman was at that time as well, Like you're in l A u c A basketball super hot. Um, you would you start interning during Here's a here's a sorry, here's a question. Why do you think, um, why do you think more guys don't have the mentality or the
understanding or maybe the value of that degree. I understand and respect that the best, the best, You're gonna make so much money. I for you an NBA player, But I just guys bounce around schools now and it's like there's there's a couple of parts to it. There's one, there's the degree, but there's two. There's the connection you make with the university and you don't. You don't get
that as a as a grad transfer. And the place you leave you're not really in a lumba, and the place you go to you're not real you in a lumba. Like look, dude, you're there for six seven months like that? Ain't that? Ain't your school? You know? So? I mean I was lucky, like o Globa States my school. I went to Notre Dame. I love Notre Dame. I would love to have And the reason the reason I went there is the connection to the subway a lumps I thought,
I'd love to play. If I can't play, I'd love to broadcast or coach all of it is, or be in business and all that. Notre Dame's unbelievable connection of a lumps um. But but I don't I don't really understand why so many, so many, even even professional athletes, don't tell kids like, hey, look at Todd's path and Todd's understanding of it that maybe not even being an agent, but just using the value of that degree and the connections at a university in order to propel you for
the rest of your life. So this is purely a theory, right, because well hypotheses then, right, um is different from our generation because we're getting older. We're gonna be old timers here pretty soon. Right. But think the mentality of us playing it was pure and not saying it's not pure for all the guys now. But it was sports. It
wasn't entertainment. Now it's much more synonymous with entertainment. So I'm not I'm not an entertainment agent or represent any actors or actresses or or even musicians for that matter. But what I can imagine is how many of them went to college as well before they started acting. And my point being is, like athletes now, their goal is
to become a pro. So the quickest path to becoming a pro it's not having that relationship with the university or going there for four It's just different, in my opinion, a different way of thinking than how we thought. Because you weren't a one and done back then, to two
and done. That was that was quick steph Baron, you know you usually went three or four years, right, even Michael Jordan three, you know, magic Bird, like all these guys that were even before us, It wasn't the one and done or even now having um, you know, the G League Ignite program or overtime like that wasn't there. I understand that everyone's story is different, right, totally respect that, okay.
And so when you say is it the right mentality the wrong mentality, You're gonna get people that would say, well, like you haven't grown up my shoes, you don't know kids could go and play. I respect that, okay, But isn't that the wrong aren't we? Is it the wrong mentality? Like, the truth is that this is this is my honest belief, okay, that the like our education system at the high school
and lower levels still stay. There's still a great education disparity based upon where you where you grow up, and what you put your background. And the equalizer is the scholarship. That's the whole intent of the whole the equalizer. It puts you on even footing where you were not even footing when you came up with your education in high school.
And I guess I don't there's there's there's just too many bad actors in my opinion in basketball that it's not that they want the kid to achieve, they want a little piece of that. They want a little piece of the action, you know. But but but I think that's I just think I understand that's the new mentality. I think it's the wrong mentality. I think it's the anything really good is worth waiting for, working for. I
know there's exceptions. I know there's guys that don't need four years of college, that don't need three years of college. But what you think you don't need is the college basketball, which you do need is everything else, and and and I just I think all of us soon to be old timers, we get to like, well, it's the new generation. You just gotta accept, do you or can you try and find a way to gather enough of us to go like, look, I get it, there's gonna be jail
and greens. There's gonna be Kate cutting. Those guys are freaks, okay, But for the rest of everybody else, this is what you need. This is the best thing for your rest of your life. And that that mentality is a bad one, you know what, Doug, It's all based on circumstance. Like we could like Kobe didn't go to college, right, and God rest his soul, But like if you if he's assuming Kobe continues on the path this guy guy that didn't step foot on college and had very successful right,
and it's a brilliant start individual. But I tell you this, like even when I stepped foot on campus with my background um in education being a priority, it was intimidating.
I'll be honest with you. Like the pro the summer program where you're having to produce papers and if you know you could have guys that go through high school want to go to college, It's like, hold on, Like, I don't know if I could balance both, And you know, it depends on the program where if you're working, you know, practicing three hours and you know lab had is practicing three hours a day, then it's an hour of waits, then you're getting pt, then you need to get extra
work in, and then you got study hall. Like it's a it's a tough load. So is it good or bad? I don't know, Like I'm a I'm a proponent of college, but at the same time, it's like, you know, it's all relative to circumstances. Like my guy Josh Primo this year, youngest guy in the draft. People were saying, why, you know, why why are you going? Why are you going in the draft? You came off the bench the average under ten points, and then here he is, he's a lottery pick.
And you know, can you argue that next year, you know, God forbid, if there's an injury or something else, then then people are being critical and saying you should have left earlier, you should have left when you were projected higher. So I look kindsights always. I'm a big data guy. I say, I'm not the smartest guy in the room.
Let me look at the data. I could argue, going back to the days of high school players turning pro that the percentage of high school players that term pro had greater success than the ones that maybe saved four
years in college at the end of their career. If you look back the Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neil's right, but those those guys were the more talented ones to begin with, right, And it's the you know, my issues with the Angel Collins is the special tail bears, the guys who who uh you know, did go and like the rest of their life their left, they were left searching. It's a really hard thing. Like the NBA is that responsible for
the rest of your life? Okay? So um, so you get done playing and you decided to go to law school? What is what? What was where'd you go law school? What was that? What was that experience? Yeah, so Doug, it was all you know, it's funny. It was all happening at the same time. So just to kind of recap, So Wasserman was not in existent existence. Tell him in Associates was the precursor, right even before he was at AR and sold as company to SFS and joined David Falk.
I was there through all of that when I was working there as an intern and for three years. So by the time by the time I'm going into my senior year, I had actually an extra year of eligibility. I had shoulder surgery and I did not want to play out my fifth year, so I actually left, took nine classes of summer school to graduate, uh quicker, while
my scholarship still lasted, and one class and fall. So I started working for arn uh you know, full time as I'm going to class to get ready for law school. So because every agent at Arns Practice did the same thing. Bob Myers was there. Bob was at Loyola right working while working for arned to then become an agent. Um, you know Joe Wolf all the age. Rob Polinka was there, he was already an attorney and in law school. So you know we were loaded. I mean, Warren la Garry
was there. Aren't tell him, uh, Bob Myers, Rob Polinka, Bad Fouchet and Neil Lollsha was doing the pre draft pre draft with Tim Gurgert. So you got five guys. We're running NBA teams, are owning the NBA Summer League. About office and here I am at nineteen through one with the firm. So I was I was there's only two law schools because my plan was to be there working as an agent and going to school. There's only
two law schools in southern California. That's LOYALA Merrimont in Southwestern to have a part time program where you could go to school at night and and still work during the day. That were accredited law schools. Right, and this is post nine eleven, So the competition in law school was thick in terms of you know, taking your l SATs and and applying and going to the schools you want.
So I'm in law school and um I actually had I left ARN and I was in crisis management for a big crisis management firm in l A called Winner and Associates, And probably about four months in in my first semester of law school, that's when Baron reached out to me and asked me to manage them. But end of that first year in law school, we're on a trip in in uh in South in Central America, UM with a Reebok tour and I'm sick as hell, Doug like,
I felt like I was gonna die. Literally, I don't even remember Santa Domingo when we were part of that tour, and I remember getting on the plane. I coudn't even see straight. He was like, I want you to be my agent. So I was twenty three turning twenty four, and that that was the start of representing Barren. He was my first client. UM, how were you treated in the field? Always? You know, Baron's friend young, you know a number I was, you know, it's everyone was respectful
to my face, but Lord knows behind the scenes. And because I have no gray hairs behind me, you know, I was four, just recently graduated college. Uh, not too many years prior, and I you know, I don't want to say Baron was my client. He was more of a partner. We just we had a partnership he had he had a he had a blueprint, as he would call it, and I was there to execute. How did he it felt like it was always I know, Cash
Warning was really close, He's really close with right. How did he always seem to have this like plan, Like here's a dude raised by his grandma south Central l A. Right, but he always seemed to have a plan. You want to do movies and entertainment, not just and now blessed as an amazing basketball player? Was that you and him? Was that something he had already established? Like? Where did
that come from? Baron? Already? He always had that? I think that's barons uh, you know, lens or perspective on the world, growing up in South Central and then going to crossroads in Santa Monica. Baron Baron is a phenomenal one. He's a trendsetter, Doug, but he's I tell you, he's a phenomenal talent evaluator. You know in terms of like you could talk to people that he's crossed across paths with in business that have either worked in partnership with
him or worked for him. A lot of those people have moved on to uh, you know, executive positions and entertainment, Uh, you know myself even you know, running my own agency and continue to represent players. You know, Cash is a serial entrepreneur. So Baron has always just been good at identifying, you know, talented young people as he's progressing his career that have moved on to you know, if they're not working alongside him, moved on to bigger and even greater things.
So and that's a that's a talent in itself, I think, yes, No, it's it's just like it's no different than to be a to be a you know, a GM, to be a coach, to be an agent, you've got to be able to evaluate talent and see, Okay, in two years, this guy is going to be this with the right you know, putting the right position. It's an amazing gift gift to have. So you're representing who is your second club,
Trevor Reasa. The following year, you know Trevor was It was eighteen coming out of u c L a average twelve and seven. No one anticipated him leaving, he was gonna leave. I ended up representing Trevor, getting him drafted to the Knicks. What was it what was that like, Um, it was great. Trevor was Greatvor. You know, Trevor and I are still friends now. Um it was I tell you man, we were fearless. It was kind of crazy.
I looked back, like, what the hell were we doing because we don't like you're using we're using common sense or for me, it's like trial and error. But we we prep. You know, Recohins, who's still a best friend of mine, who's one of the best player development coaches. He put Trevor through player development for the draft process, and uh, you know, Trevor ends up playing extremely well in the in the l A Summer League at the time, this is precursor of the Vegas and you know, Isaiah
Thomas took him. Uh it's a funny story. I still laugh about with Isaiah. My first contract negotiation was was interesting because I was completely prepped for it. But you're not prepped for Isaiah Thomas or somebody that, you know what I mean. Yeah, Plus here you grew up in
l A in the eighties. He was awesome, but I hate him and he has this incredib the guys that are the starts and you know this, like we've been around the guys that they have an aura to them, they just do right they have it or okay, so still with him? No, no, well I sat down with him. I think Isaiah was testing me. This is post Summer League and um and Isaiah asked to meet me at the Four Seasons in Beverly Hills, but not at like nine am or ten am, seven am, because Isaiah knew
I was young. So let's say I think it was a test. Let's see if this guy shows up on time. I was there. I think probably am Is mom was there with him initially, and then we sit down and talk. But the funny thing is I always say this in negotiations, to their strength and numbers. Right, if if you and I are negotiating against each other, Doug, and as you by yourself and I have two other people with me, attorneys and other experienced people, their strength naturally in numbers.
So in that negotiation we started the talks in l A. He goes back to New York and now they have the you know, the lead counsel for the Knicks and they have me on speaker phone negotiating, which which was Uh? I sit back and think about that conversation. Uh, there was some curveballs thrown at me that I handled. But more more than anything that intimidation tactics. I think I held my own at least Isaiah said I did, and I got a good deal for Trevor. What is it
like like for Trevor? What is it like for a guy who's a client at a very young age to leave, to leave you? What's that? What's that feeling like? Uh? To leave me as a as an agent? Yes? Like what I mean inevitable late? Yeah? What is that? What is that like? From your perspective? Oh? Man? It was. It was like losing your first your first love, like your your first you know, like a girl breaking up with you in high school, right your first life. Like
it hurts. I was like, God, I'm not going to be able to survive as an agent, Like it's over, My reputation is done, x Y and Z and I countless stories Doug where it's just like you figure it out, you learn from it, you pick yourself back up, and you keep moving forward. But that was devastating. But in hindsight, you know, based on how green I was in certain areas, not in the negotiations or preparation, it was more just
life experience. In terms of guiding him. I don't fault him for making that change at the time when you now professionality you've been in for twenty years against super successful um better worse, different? What in terms of recruiting players, what's the experience? It's it's it's much better because I don't waste time. I'm much more efficient for me. It is because Doug, I'm a big believer, and I tell my staff this is I don't. I don't sugarcoat things.
I don't. I'm not. I'm not selling anything that I don't think I could deliver on. So the client stopped buy into what I'm selling as a service. Are the guys I'm supposed to be representing, and look, those guys are experiencing success. I tend to evaluate talent for what I could develop them into. So, you know, you look at the Pascal Siakam. You know, Pascal wasn't supposed to be a first round It wasn't supposed to be an All Star or a max player, but he's those things.
You know. Tom Thomas Bryant second round pick, you know, waved by the Lakers, and now he's the starting center. He just turned twenty four. I think Thomass position to earn twenty five million per year next year, if not greater once he recovers from his nation. Okay, so so go back Pascal. Okay I called pascals tournament. Yeah, his coach. Uh uh. You know Margaret is like my brother's best friend in the business. Okay, But if you told me that this is how good he could be, I would
be like, when did you first see Pascal? I saw him at in Bakersfield, playing against Bakersfield, and you know, I want to evaluate talent. It's like, is he really six nine, six ten? What's his body type? Can you shoot the ball? Does you have touched you know? And I could tell those things even if he's not shooting jumpers at the free throw line? And then how good earth's feet? What's his athleticism, and like what does he
do well? And then the other component And Doug, here's the thing is you you would not have thought I was crazy if you're in the gym every day watching him like I am. See you you have a basketball pedigree as well. That's the big thing that people forget is I'm in the gym every day watching the development of my guys doing my calls, like how you are right now, I'm doing my calls in the gym, so I'm watching the ascension of their development. So it's by
the end of the summer three months. If I'm watching Pascal compete at a high level against Paul George lebron or or Chris Paul or James Harden and those guys, I'm starting to, you know, an earshot away hearing them talk about Pascal. It's easy for me to know where what direction my guys going in terms of his development.
But if you're if you're on outside looking in saying, oh, this guy is from New Mexico State, or you know, I don't know this guy, or i've seen him play once, I don't know, but you're not seeing his his development, then I could see how somebody may think I'm crazy or biased to my client opposed to actually seeing where there are what what is it? You know your role? You're so you get I mean, look, one of the one of the sales. Can you tell if I'm wrong?
Is you have a great, strong relationship with your clients. It's a partnership, it's a friendship. It's more than just hey, I'm gonna get your next deal, right, Okay, So Pascal struggles in the playoff. Right, here's a young guy. It's the highest level of the NBA is different. What what's that like for you to deal with knowing what he has in them but also knowing the reality of in play as well as as he as he can as the agent, but also the partner and the friend. What
does that experience. It's being honest. I gotta be honest with him, and and it's also bringing in, um, you know, some other stories or examples of other players, because every all great players go through adversity, every single one. We can't name one that didn't struggle at some point on their path to maybe be being you know, taking it up and notch to greatness and and having that level
of consistency. Even you know Lebron, not saying Pascal is is Lebron, but you know Lebron has gone through it or Steph has gone through it. All the great players go through it. It's how they handle that adversity and come out on the other side. So for me having those conversations with Pascal, it's not sugarcoating it. It's like, hey, eight, you need to get your wrestler, Let's go get some extra reps in or this is all part of the process, like it's okay, let's get back to work in the
off season. So it's not and then actually not just saying things but backing it up as an agent with a plan of action for them to take to get better. But it's never yeah, hey, it's everybody else's follower. You're the victim and X, Y and Z. It's like, no, let's look at it from all angles. Understand this business and what it is. Let's understand what your role is. Because Pascal's path is is a is a is an
unconventional one. If we look at it from NBA All Star standards, is this wasn't a guy that's supposed to be an All Star. He came out of nowhere. So him being thrust into a leadership role as an All Star Max player, that's all new to him. He's the youngest of six, right, so we understand family dynamics as well. He's learning and being more comfortable as in his skin in terms of leadership roles. So it's it's literally coaching him through that. It's talking to the team and management.
You know, in some cases even Nick Nurse about those things to bring it to his attention and then you know it's a partnership with the team understanding his success as a team success, Pascal success is what was my own. So for me it's again I always say relationships outside looking in could be contentious or you can look at us a part as a partnership and and make it make sense so that both sides benefit. You know, whatever it is, whatever it is in terms of outcomes, we
want turn here, go to law school. You know, probably skipped the step that even you want to skip and starting with Baron, you know, before you finished doing what you want to do. Um. But if somebody wants to be you, what, how would you like? There's a college basketball player out there is like and I like, I love this game, I love the sport. What what would you what would you recommend to them as the first step in trying to see if they like the process
of being an agent? Yeah, they would recommend a credible internship with a credible firm, because we're we're all judged by a resume, um, and you want to learn and pick up those good habits or see great agents at work to understand their habits or what it entails. Oftentimes I have young people that reach out to me and says, you know, have said, hey, I've interned here, I've worked in sports, and then I say where, And it may not have been a credible firm in which I know,
they may not have picked up great habits. In terms of what it takes to be an agent. I think most people get it confused now that hey, if I have a player, I could just go get certified and I know how to be an agent, or I'm an agent all of a sudden, like that's is disrespectful to be honest with you, Like there's an art and a there's a there's an art to being an agent for
one understanding the business and what it entails. And then um, yeah, you want to surround yourself with great people that have had success being an agent because we're fiduciaries of our clients. M Um, you mentioned Rob who you worked with? You mentioned, aren't um Leon Rose? Now running a team? Like is that is that the dream? Is that the gold is there? Is there any part of you that says, I love what I'm doing, but man, I would love to run
the team and rebuild something I'm naturally a builder. That's why I'm running my own company. If that opportunity presented itself, I would I would look at it. Obviously, my clients are family for me, so it's a conversation I would
have have with them as well and my family. But I mean that could always be interesting because I don't know about you, Doug, in terms of you know, growing up as an as an athlete is like I love being a part of a team, Like there's nothing better than that, you know, um, you know, having in um colleagues, are having um, you know, associates or people that you're looking in the same direction building towards you know, at least in sports and building towards a championship. So that
aspect always intrigues me. For me on on the company's side, is the same thing as like, uh, you know, as building towards our client's personal success or. In some ways we're even sharing in the championships, you know, even as recently for me with Pascal or even Caban Looney. Right now, here's the here's the you you mentioned your honesty. Do you cheer for other agents to succeed because like, if they succeed, that means hey, this is a good plan,
or did you not want agents to succeed? What? What's what's the experience like of watching other people who have done what you've done? Playing Bob obviously has had an incredible amount of success. Rob's had success, is won the title. Do you cheer for those guys, um, because that I
was maybe that path open up for you. You know, I wouldn't necessarily say cheer, but there's a tremendous amount of respect I have because conversations come up sometimes where people are critical of other agents and their work or even their transition, and I'm I'll be protective of other agents or other guys because a lot of again, a lot of people don't understand what goes into our jobs.
And for an agent to have success for extended period of time, especially uh, managing a you know, high level talent, it's not easy, you know, And people can make the assumption, oh, well that guy was a lottery pick already or he was a superstar. Well you gotta deliver for those guys too, that the expectations are greater as well. So I give a lot of credit to those agents or even those guys that make the transition to the front office, and and and I say, in some ways, those guys are
better prepared. And that's not taken away from the front office execs that have been agents. But you're every day you're deal dealt with the set of circumstances that you didn't know was coming the day before, right because ten percent, you know, if if I'm looking at my business or my role, you know, ten percent of it is probably contract negotiations. The other nine are managing the client and
managing the curveballs that no one seeing. If if I'm doing a good job managing the curve balls that nobody's reading about or no one else has seen, you know, and you know that's it. So I in some ways, I, like I said, I'm not I can't say I'm outright cheering, but I'm when I see them, I pay my respect and acknowledge the work that they're doing and and want them to be successful. I think there's everybody, Yeah, that that's I mean, that's obvious. I believe that to be true.
And I also think that's why you know, I'm sure you champion your own kind of young guys. Right, there's there's play. Um, you mentioned your own firm. How hard is that your own things, your own thing. It's extremely hard. It's extremely hard, especially for me when I when I went back after I left B d A in two thousand thirteen, I didn't have a marquee client to uh, I guess he could say to to use to gain
other clients. So for me, I had to change my approach to the business to identify um undervalued talent that I could develop into those um players that I thought that could be very successful. So you know, when I left in thirteen, I had to In two thousand fifteen, I had Cavan Looney and even Norman Powell that that I got drafted. Followed by the next year sixteen Pascal Siakam picked up March and gor Toad as a client, seventeen Thomas Bryant and then just kind of just continued
to build on momentum. But at the time, if you look back in hindsight, like those guys were marquee guys, I had that's a lot in their player development, not just in the pre draft process but every offseason to help get them to where they're at in terms of their second contracts. Also, though again falling back on your relationships, right Luney At u c l A, a a place that you've played, and of course he gets drafted by Bob Meyers, a guy who went to us l A. And you
work with the firm, right this. It doesn't mean that there's anything illicit, but business is business. It's about relationships and who you know. And if you're telling Bob, Bob you can play like you know, that's different than an agent he doesn't have a long standing relationship with and understands that. Is that a fair way to look at it?
I think it's fair. But you know, Bobby, regardless of relationship, Bob is, you know, and obviously this is as in their run and uh you know, uh Gavan fell in the draft for for medical reasons. You know it's me saying that to Bob, But I think he's not in the moment of drafting Cavan as much as him thinking about the relationship long term because of of our dynamic. Um, because Bob is gonna have to pick the best player
for the Golden State Warriors at any give. I'm not because I'm his the player's agent, but because that's the best talent available. So in some ways it works hand in hand. But you know, it's I'd like to think that my relationship with any team is I'm not I'm not one of the bullshit. I'm just gonna tell it how it is and I and I love that process
because I guess through experience. Whether again Josh Primo, I could call a team when he's projected in the second round and say, guys, look like Pascal or like a Thomas Bryan or Cavan where I'm telling you, guys the talent that I'm seeing and you guys know what I'm gonna do. This kid is going to be a superstar. And the ones that believe believe and the ones that don't.
You know, I remind him in the future when I have the next player, there's there's satisfactors or that's the chip on my shoulder dog and maybe that's a former athlete in me. It's like I told you so, so you don't believe me, I'll do it again. Um. I I had a my TV and radio agent um for five or six years. My second agent was guy named Nick con Nick now runs w W Right and he was at CIA. He was very powerful, brilliant guy. And Nick used to tell me all the time, He's like
being an agent is a young man's job. It's a grinder's job. Fifty is about like he's like, fifties about kind of the cutoff. Okay, so you're in your early forties, you've been really successful. UM what is what are your
thoughts on the next five ten years? For you? Personally, it's, um, you know, I'm always thinking when you know, it's it's continuing to help develop my current roster of clients, helped groom the next generation of agents that are working with me, because that's a that's a big part of my I guess, my ethos and businesses. I it's not just helping my clients go, it's helping the people that are working for me, are working alongside me grow. I think there's no greater satisfaction.
And you know, whether it's within my company or you know, you know, helping them grow their wings to where they're an executive somewhere else and having tremendous success, Like I value that. UM. But for me, the next eight to ten years is just see where the industry evolves into. Look at n I L being introduced. UM. You know, I'm very big into sports science and investments in sports
science for athletes. UM. I think with technology that's going to impact our industry tremendously like it has every other sector of business and finance and in other areas. So for me, it's the satisfaction I get. Honestly, Doug is not going along with the status quo of how things
have always been. Is like, how can I disrupt a business that people say is not scalable from a business perspective because it's a service business, But how can I introduce new technologies in a way that we've never seen before because quite frankly, the business has been done the same way from agents the last forty or fifty years, starting with McCormick and I MG to where now if you're I think wise and and um and diligent about the technologies that you can integrate for clients in their
development off the court in terms of sports science, but also on how we represent them, I think you know, it can be interesting for the future because if you're not adding value to your clients now because Dot we haven't even talked about Like, look at the contracts these guys are signing, right Uh. Steph Curry signed I think two oh seven on an extension over four years with the new media rights deal. Coming in in four is expiration.
Seventy five billion dollars occur. It deals billion. And if we go back to when that influx of money came in, we saw the level of contracts how that was impacted, right, seventy billion, three times more. I did some projections. Rookie like Josh Primo could be eligible to sign probably an extension as a twenty one year old between two hundred and fifty and three hundred million dollars depending on it
a Max or super Max player. Right. So for me, it's also looking into the future forecasting because now you're talking about athletes having their own family office and raise their level of sophistication to a whole different level. Uh, forget off the court earnings, just their on court earnings. So for me, it's also you know, how do you
I'm not waiting until that happens. It's what mechanisms or what services can I put in place now to make sure that I could address all the needs of my clients in the future when they are earning that level of income. Uh, Todd, You've been so gracious with your time, dude, It's really really amazing. It's been good. I really appreciate it, let's do it in person. And I'm a fan of Primo, so I can't wait to see what he does this
year in San Antonio in future years. And thanks again for joining us, and no, I appreciate it, Doc and look forward to the next time. Pretty amazing stuff, right, I mean, just the the ability at nineteen years old ago, like, hey, let me pivot and think about becoming an agent and then using the connections that you have established at U c l A to build really a business and then breaking out and building the business on your own, all those challenges all right in here. I thought you'd love that.
And that's the type of guy who you will see whether you talked about being a super agent or you talk about evolving into a guy running a team. He has such a wherewithal and is so respected in the sport. I thought he'd just be a good listen, and he was. I'm I'm fast, and I want to grab him back and talk for another hour about other who guys that that he's discovered. In the meantime, remember The Doug Gotliep Show is daily three to six eastern twelve three Pacific.
I Heart Radio, Fox Sports Radio app, I Heart Radio app etcetera, etcetera. Wherever you listen to our sports radio, we can also download that as a podcast. In the meantime, if you have questions, comments at gotleiep Show, Twitter or Instagram. The best way to get a hold of me. I'm Doug Gottlieban. This is all ball