LeBron's China Mistake; One-And-Dones Wind Down; Former Kansas Star Eric Chenowith On Expectations, KU Struggles

York Knicks. He's a form McDonald's All American and he now sells a various allotment of insurance policies to both schools and athletes as uh as they get ready to either come back and play in college or prepare for the NBA NFL Draft. Anyway, EC will join us upcoming. Let's talk about the story that that won't go away. All right, It's crazy because we're less than a week away from the NBA season beginning Clippers and Lakers at

Staples Center. That's the marquee matchup on opening night. Right the the new grand theft auto uh font on the front of the Clippers jersey. I'm in. I can't wait to see this kind of burgeoning rivalry in the City of Angels. That said, what a disaster week for Lebron James. I mean, not good, not good, and I do think that some of the things that he said are true. Many of the things he said are true, Like I don't know if Darryl Morey is truly educated on Hong Kong.

On what there's a difference in Hong Kong, and then the practices of the Chinese government there is UM, I don't know why he said people could be spiritually harmed. The idea could be physically harmed financially harmed obviously perked everybody's ears. And then the idea that Lebron had to

then have a statement on Instagram, not once, but twice. UM, So he had two statements on Instagram, and then he came out and made another statement a practice and another statement of practice, and then he said, I'm not gonna talk about anymore because they all kind of went over the same. He's put himself in a couple of different corners. Lebron and many of his cohorts in the NBA who look up to him have um have criticized politically the right wing, not just the president, but also people who

uh don't believe what he believes. And that's fine, Like he said, he does have freedom of speech, not free of ramification. The problem is that when he takes the stance that he's perceived to be taking on China, Well, you spent I don't know, the last four or five years pissing off the right, and now you're taking a

crap on the left. So that's a hard one. Um. And then here's kind of to me the the the biggest hypocrisy is not getting mad because it's her, you in your wallet, and the idea that he is in fact selling out it's um because he's he's not wrong. You don't have to comment on everything, like even the idea of being more than an athlete, Like he didn't have to comment on everything, Like even in our newscast, how many times do we see there's a tragic accident

only five Americans? Five Americans parish. No Americans parish, Like, oh, the accident is not that big deal because no Americans parish, Right, So we won't comment on it, we won't send relief effort forward unless it somehow affects us. He's not wrong there, and he's not wrong that so many are uneducated, um on what's going on in Hong Kong. But it hasn't stopped him from speaking out on things in the past that he might not be all that educated on right.

I mean, and see a athletes, he didn't play in college. What does he know about the college experience? What does he know about the value of You know, it goes actually goes counter to his perceived and preach belief of

the value of education for his I promised school. I think though, that the biggest issue is um is that Lebron James has been a leader to the idea of if you're not getting what you want, don't play, leave go to somewhere else, right, whether it's in his career NFL players Jalen Ramsey, I'm not gonna play, end up getting traded like that's great. You're in China. You knew about the controversy. Don't play, you don't have to play? Why not here Lebron James? So look the Lebron thing,

I don't know. You know you uh. He's done an amazing job his entire life or public life, which is like his junior year in high school on of seemingly saying and doing most of the right things. And of course the criticism of when he first left Cleveland was wrong. You know, I don't know why I needed to donate two million dollars to a boys club in Grandwich, Connecticut. You know, could have done the same to Akron back then. But now we're just kind of trying to fly in

flaws with the supermodel. You know, there's been no talk of drugs, affairs of women. You know, it's been basketball stuff. Not liking coaches, some getting some of them fired, not loving playing certain organizations, and moving on wanting better players than he had last year with the Lakers. That's basketball, professional stuff, not personal stuff. I'm not saying the guy is flawless, but the pr of Lebron has for the most part, been flawless. But but here's I think what happens, Like,

let's hit the nail on the head. What happens when you become so big and you keep your circles so small and people come in and all they want to do is kiss the ring. Nobody tells you you're wrong anymore. And they had a weeked, they had an entire week to figure out. Man, what am I gonna say with this China thing? Because look, anybody with the brain understands we're tapped out in the United States, right like Facebook, Google, Apple, Yahoo, You know, those are the Those are the companies I'm

forgetting somebody. Those are the companies that have all the cash. Everybody else kind of tapped out, and you're looking for markets where there's growth Turkeys one. The other one is China. China has the people. China has the growth. China was suppressed for years because of how they were old school cap communists. Now they're like new school capitalist slas s last communist and everybody's trying to get in on China. They just are. That's why baseball wants to play there

and football wants to play there. Basketball tready is playing there, Like that's it's no secret. It's about the money. It's about the people. It's about the financial resources to have more people have more money. But boy, for a guy who has done so many things, the right way to appear to be about the bottom line. And I don't even think it's about his bottom line. Like I don't think he's that ticked that his appearances were canceled, but

he's mad. Kyle Kuzma lost a million dollars. But if you lose a million dollars for the right reason, right and by the way, you might lose a man. Now you might make two. On the back end of it, if you do things the right way, Hey, we're not gonna We're not gonna play. Where was the where was the stance? Where where's the stance of Unless there's some

improvements of human rights, we're not going to play. If you're so bothered by one tweet, then maybe you shouldn't have us play basketball in your country because this is how we feel, and I do like I feel for

the idea that it's a different country. It's a completely different government, completely different ideology than the one we grew up in or the one we grew up aiming to have America B. But if you're going to defend it, especially considering who you've aligned yourself politically with, this is what you're gonna be met with. Lebron James is an athlete, immensely talented one. But he's not more than an athlete,

unless you consider being a capitalist more than athlete. Let me just give you this kind of real quick preview college basketball thought. As we creep creep closer and closer. Two, when we believe, we believe that high school players will be allowed to come out straight to the pros, let's appreciate the superstar freshman um that are going to be

playing college basketball like Cole Anthony. Now, I saw Cole Anthony's Greg Anthony's son, Um, I saw him play several times in the past three years, and he's uh, he's got he's got a little asshole in him, right, And I mean that in an endearing quality, Like he's so tough and so kind of mean and so competitive that I feel like, and I know there are there are people who will tell you he's not great to play with.

He can be a little selfish, he can be a little temperamental, Like yeah, I like I think Roy Williams, coach Williams will handle that. I just do. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he doesn't um when the Bob Cuzy Award. Wouldn't be surprised all if he becomes a National Player of the Year candidate. He's that talented.

Caroline is pretty good as well. So, but they lose so much losing you know, Cam Johnson and and you know that uh kind of dynamic combination of two uh you know, old big guys that can really shoot the basketball and Luke may I saw I just got cut. But um, the teams that will win, for the most part, are going to be the older teams the way it is, although there's been this massive purge and massive turnover in

college basketball, so many guys going to pros. But the things that we're gonna miss, we're gonna miss these top five, top ten high school americans because they'll all go pro. I think ultimately, if that happens, it'll work out. I think ultimately it will work out where too many guys go pro the first couple of years and then eventually they figure out, hey, the G League is not a great place. You're not gonna be a lottery pick if you're not gonna be on an NBA team, go to

college for a couple of years. But I do think for several years we're gonna lose a lot of those high school americans. I'm excited about Cole Anthony. He's a different type of cat in terms of not just pedigree, toughness, fanasty. His shooting continues to improve, he defends, he's got size, he's got athleticism, he's really really good. You'll you'll enjoy watching him. But let's enjoy watching these talented freshman because we won't see as many have as profound an impact

in the years to come. All right, let's let's welcome in my first guest. My guest, he's Air channeli's former star at the University of Kansas, former second round draft pick of the New York Knicks. Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Let's catch up with the legend himself. He was McDonald's All American in at a Villa Park High School. Um who was in the

McDonald's All American Game and at nineties seven. Wow, we had some guys Elton brand lamarrowed um Um, Brendan Haywood, Chris Burge's, uh Ronald Tests, we had Baron Davis, Collins twins, a lot of a lot of big I mean West Coast big dudes. Right, yeah, Yeah, it was like, I think it was kind of the last crop of real,

you know, big guys. There was obviously the you know, Tyson Chandler and a couple of guys after that, but since then it's kind of been a lot of wings and guards coming out of Southern California, you know, you know, you guys got beat badly. Um, you had Britain Johnson, Jason Collins, Jaren Collins, you burgess who did my potterly? And Marcus Griffin and Ryan Humphrey well Man hump uh all on the same team and you guys lost. Now the other team had other bigs Lamarrow to Melvin Eli

and Brendan Haywood, Marcus Feiser. What do you remember about the game? Bad coaching obviously, you know, I mean you remember our fault. Um, you know, I just I mean I was kind of like starstruck the whole time. Just I was just so honored to be there, to be named mcdonalth American and then actually get there and you know, have a live game on CBS and you know, get to play as my future teammate Kenny Gregory. Um, it was really I mean I started to pinch myself the

whole time. It was such a great experience. Um, but the game was kind of a work has just went so fast and everything everything was so intense. Now the game is like a you know, throw it up all star game. But back then we actually got after it and you know, played hard. Uh why did you remind me? Why did you pick Kansas because you wanted to go there really badly, and coach didn't want to recruit you, so I thought I'd went up and go there instead. So as as so fucked up, I just want you,

why did you do? Once you point out I wanted to go to Duke, but they had taken Woe Joe the year before. I did always love Kansas in the way in which they played, and they took Robertson early. Um, they took Robertson Ryan Robertson early, and you know he was local and he was he was a McDonald's American my senior year, which um, I'll never get anyway, but but yeah, he didn't. But no, but seriously, why did why Kansas? I mean, if you'm obviously you've played the

game there, I mean once you stepped foo him that arena. Uh, all the history and the mystique to be to have a chance to play there, you know, it's it was beyond my further dreams. I remember when I was a kid, I used to do yard with my dad and we listened to games as we did work at the house.

And remember listening to like the A D eight championship game over a radio with my dad and like idolizing Danny Manning and then he went to the Clippers and I kind of got to know him through some friends and it just came it was always Kansas and everybody else for me. And then I mean, really honestly, remember

our Sunday workouts at Tustin High School. We're in high school, and remember one day you came in and you were like, I know, you were eating something and you were like, you know, hey, uh in between buys, You're like, oh, you're going to Kansas fall down sixteen thou three hundred, and I was like, and it's really weird, but I think at that moment I kind of like conceptualized that, like, you know what, I think that is the right spot for me. And then I committed early as well. So

I committed Argust first, which was Coach's birthday. After the recruiting period, and I wanted to have a fun senior year, not to deal with all the recruiting and stress and who's going to where I knew where I wanted to go, and I went there, and I mean I had great experience, won a lot of games, and you know, I still have really really, did you take the university. Did you take a visit there before you committed? I took. Yeah, I took unofficial So I did all unofficials. Junior visited. Yeah,

Notre Dame. Yeah, I saw you saw coach McCloud. Uh, you know, went to I went to Indiana. Uh, Kansas obviously, Uh we did. Duke, I did Utah. I went to Majaris's big man camp, So I went there. Um, you hit all the big, big white guy spots. That's what you did, because we like because Duke had like Tamon Demzowski's big you know, all those big guys, Mark Acres and Laterner right, and then you know Indian always had big white guys, and in Notre Dame big white guys

like do you have a big white guy? Sure, I'll come visit your campus. That was basically a recruiting philosophy. Yeah you said it. But yeah, I mean, luckily, my you know, my dad could afford to take us on his unofficial trips because, like I said, I really wanted to have a care for refunds a year. I didn't want to be missing football games on Fridays. I don't want to be traveling everywhere. I wanted to just get it done with and then you know, have my senior

year to myself. So um, but you know, the unofficial trips are as great as official trips. Obviously I did take an official trip to Kansas, but um, yeah, I'm glad I got it done early. Okay, So you show up at Kansas in the fall of nineteen. Uh, that team had Paul Pierce and Raith of friends. What do you what do you remember? What was your first impressions of being a k on campus playing pickup ball, what

the whole experience was like. I just remember the level of intensity the step up from high school to college was. It was it. It was I mean I can't even think a word to express it. I mean it was

just so much more intense, so much more physical. Um, you know, coming in all of SuDS, the McDonald's American Die, the are gonna go at you to see what you've got and and really challenge you remember Race like going right at me right away day one and just kind of letting me know, like, Hey, this is how it's gonna be, this is the level we play at. Especially

you know, even t JP. I'm sure you remember him, who was just a you know, really intense player and really good defender, and so just day one was like, okay, it's on. And then I just remember being in awe of how good Paul was. I mean, I played against Paul in high school. Obviously we did, and we knew him, and I knew how special he was. But he had you know, improved his body and he gotten stronger and

you know, extended his range. And I just remember he would absolutely dominate every single day and take up um, you know, and then once you know, uh we did our conditioning test and all that stuff. It's just you didn't have any time to get bored or homesick because you're so busy just in the grind of everything that started literally on day one. When when during this process did you fall in love with Dave Matthews Man. I always like Dave, even when I was in high school.

I mean, I want my buddies. We used to you know, go see him and in concerts and stuff. And then you know, it's unfortunately that story kind of took a life of its own. It's funny our r s I d Dean Bucking, who I'm still friends with, Like every time he sees me, he cringes because he feels horrible about that story, you know, just taking off and getting out of control, because it was funny. I think. I it was like, you know, what what did you do

in your summer vacation. It's like, well, I you know, I went, woke up, go to the lift weights, and then go play pick up and then go to the beach, and you know, I saw Dave Matthew's fand and it was like, oh, you saw Dave, and I'm like you, I'm a big fan. And two shows in southern California, and then I went to my buddies and then you know, we road tripped it up, you know to see him in the Bay. So I saw him up there, and then they were in Kansas. When I was in Kansas,

I saw him four times last year. And then all of a sudden it turned into Eric's not focused, he's a he's a he's an ex Bill Walton, you know, Dave Head, you know, just traveling with the band. He's a groupie. I saw him on the stand. It just it turned into its complete, you know, out of control story.

And it was he coincide with me having a really good sophomore year and then going to my junior and struggling and then having two really really good players and Nicholisman Drew good in coming in the minutes, get you know, share, and then all of a sudden, you know, I don't love basketball, and it's you know, Eric Socks and the whole deal. It really spouted out of control quickly, and you know, we've all had you know, public struggles and

so you know, and it was funny. I just saw Mark Stante was talking about it yet the other day on sports about losing your starting position and how painful that is, and I remember, I mean it was really really hard, you know, losing my starting spot. And then you know, obviously it was happening for Nick and Drew for succeeding. But I couldn't even listen to Dave Matthews then for a while because people kind of asked me

about it. I'm like, dude, it's just a band. I like to see him, you know, in the summer with I thought, he's you know, it's not like I'm you know, uh, you know, loading up in Winni Bay and traveling all of all of the country, so uh, you know, it's funny like to this day, like I'm still I still like the music, and uh, you know, I still go seeing one they're in town and stuff. But that story,

you know, just took a life of its own. Um okay, so let's let's go back to because you were you and and Kenny Gregory with a two freshman that played a bunch. You had another guy people forget you guys had Lesser Earl, who was like as highly talented high school player as there ever was. I went to l s U and he just freak athlete but just no

real no, no real position. But you guys had this unbelievable in terms of name talent, right, like to have Paul and Rafe to basically NBA All Stars Top five picks, BT, Billy Thomas who became an NBA player, just a great shooter. Ryan Robertson McDonald's All American who became an NBA player who was a junior that year, right, he wasn't young. You had you and Lester Earl and t J. Pugh and Nick Bradford and Kenny Gregory. How the fund did you guys not get to a final four? Katina Mobile

and Tyson Wheeler. I mean literally we only lost, you know, we were thirty found four that year, we lost at Maryland. I remember early, Um, we just didn't play well. And then we lost at Missouri, which is always tough to play at. And then um, you know, just I don't know, they just can I can, I can? I tell you, I don't know if this happened in the Rhode Island game. But let me tell you about our game. So we played you guys only once that year. You guys won.

The league has won thirty five games. Guys want but the league back then was separating the North and South, and we tied to in the South or whatever we picked lasting the South. Anyway, so you guys play, Um, we're getting ready to play it. It's the last game of the year. It's on ABC, and coach that swear to God. He walks and he goes, listen, Kansas come in here with lester Row, Kenny Gregory and Ryan Robertson and t J. Pugh and Channing with brother they're good now.

When they got Paul Pierce and rape the friends on the court. At the same time, there betterness about eight to ten points betterness. It's like, but you know, our coach against Royal a long time and he ain't gonna take one of them out. He's gonna take both of them out at the same time. And brother without rape. The friends and Paul Pierson that court were better to them,

and basically our game plass where to got. Our game plan was like, hey, let's just stay close, just stay close, and then at some point and both of those two big motherfucker's are gonna come out of the game, and that's when we go. If you go back and watch the tay, we lost that game by four points. You

guys were probably twenty points better than. Part of it was we started my boy time and we started the seniors on Senior Day, which is stupid, right, It's like one of those that's great to do when you're when you're playing, you know, yeah, but it come out at the first dead ball, dude, we were down like, we were down like eight nothing like we don't need to spot Kansas eight points, all right, We don't need to We don't need to spot Kansas a points. That is

not a good idea. It's just don't remember you you know our place better than we did, I think, and we were running secondary break and you turned your head to bait me to swing it and then you popped back out and stole the swing path. I'll never forget that, you guys do. Here's a camp so I know all the Kansas ship because we we loved it. So um you with that box set that goes into like still shuffle. Yeah,

that's one. Yeah, one that the cutters come across. It's a steal every time because you guys are like robots, right, because the big guys pop out and then the big guy and then you know, the point guard passes and then screens away for the other big guy becomes a shuffle cut into a post up, right, And I mean it was a layup, but yes I do. I didn't know what's called you one, but thank you. I'll drop that down. B one, B two, B three Okay, So

which one is the one? And then then you fake that right, you fake the pass, trouble to the middle, reverse dribble and dug it duck into the big guy. That's B three three? Yeah. So B one is the standard scoring cut where you know rape would come through and get it lay up every time, which Carolina ran really well with U with Tyler, you know, on that

championship team and whatever year it was. And then B two is a backdoor double basically fake it and backdoor the one guy and then Billy Thomas comes off the double screen the other side, and then B three is where you dribble um. You known you reverse pivot and that's when the backcutter hooks is defended. Anyway, you stole the ball, and I remember you got a breakaway and I found you pretty hard because obviously you can't sto creato to save your life. And we went it was

just like get the ball back. It was just a waste time. It was a turnover on me, a steal for you, and then we just got the ball back. I think I made one or two, but I don't remember. Actually, my the next year might ordered the two years Sally, my senior year, uh, when we kicked the dog shit out of you guys that I made. The guys started found me early and I started making making all of

my making, all my free throat. Do you remember what the locker room was like when you lost to land oh Man, that was bleak because you remember the year before they got upset by Arizona. And in my opinion, I thought that nineties seven team was one of the best teams in college basketball history that never won. They had that team gone through won the championship, they had have been forty and one, and I would hang my have them staying they're the best team in college basketball history.

I mean, I could really honestly say that lose the Arizona So there was a ton of pressure on us, and then you know we're a one seed rode on into an eight seed, and I remember like in the second half it kind of set in. We're like, we're in a game here, worked down four or five. This is not going well. Coach starts freaking out in time out. He's getting on his hands and begging Ryan Robertson to change the sides of the court bringing the ball up. Um,

It's just stuff was rapidly out of control. Then Katino and Entyson wore on fire, so like you thought, coming to the the last couple of minutes, and then when it's over to get the locker room, it was just going through those emotions again. I mean I was close to the team as the high school. Seeing like now being in the locker room, it was like, God, this sucks. You know, I knew Race was done obviously he's a senior, and we knew Paul was going to go and it

was just I'm her. Remember Matt already being just piste off. It wasn't like we were he was said, I remember our managers were like falling in tears. I mean I was kind of in shock. I looked over inside my locker was next to CB. I looked at the CB and I was he was just like on the ground with his head down. It was like I told people this a lot like if you you played a program like Kansas, if you don't win the Nation Championship, your seat,

your complete season as a failure. And I don't care if you go if you go to the final four, Okay, cool, that's fine. We get a banner, we get a ring, gray, But like, what if you don't win the championship, it's a complete failure, it really is. And that's the standard that Kansas has set, you know. And so it's it's a lot of pressure. It's too much pressure a lot of times for the players. And there's a few programs like that, do Kentucky, Kansas. You know, if you don't

win it, it's it's a total failure, you know. So but that's the that's the goals that we set, and that's the pressure we put upon ourselves. But I just remember how horrible that locker room was. It was. It was nowhere you wanted to be. It was awful. So you had a very good sophomore year in your junior year, and that's when Gooden Collison Heinrich, I'll show up, Um, why why why did you lose your start in in like and like Roy is gonna cut you out the family? Now,

why did you lose your starting spot? I mean part of it I think was like a self pulphion and prophecy for him. I mean, I really think it was like I, you know, I was the preseason all everything guy. I had come back, and you know, I'd gotten on as nervous about a few things. And I remember like practice starting and and Nick and Drew really good, and I was doing my thing and we're doing fine. And then all of a sudden, like I remember, coach Holiday was gone for a practice or two, and I was like,

as coach, I mean, w's Coach Holiday. He's like, oh, he's he's going to uh watch Cincinnati's practice and coach Huggins for a couple of days because he's learning how to we're gonna implement a press and I'm like, what are you talking about it? Because well, yeah, we're gonna start. You know, we're gonna speed up tempo. We've got so many guys are so deep. We're gonna just you know, uh, we're gonna press and change our style. And I remember thinking to myself, like, that's not what I kind of

signed up for to come back for whatever. And then, like I said, it just spiled out of control. There was you know, there was a lot of I mean, Kampus has five beat writers, like the Yankees have five beat writers. Like you know, every article was you know, channel with stocks and then it was you know, Jason Whitlaw's out there saying you got a bench channel. I mean,

it just it was public, it was private. It just and then and I'll tell you what it is like in every player knows this, Like confidence is is everything in sports. I don't care who you are, what sport you play. If you have confidence and you believe you can get something done, you can get it done. Like what John Wooden said, what do you whether you believe you can do you can't, You're probably right right. I lost my confidence. I mean I just I didn't coach,

don't believe me anymore. And and so I mean, it's really go ahead, No, what do you think happen to me? Like you and I grew up together, Like I can shoot a basketball right, and then you get you get to this and you work all offseason and you're like, all right, I got this, I got this ship. I got this ship right, and then you know, and then you're in practice and you take one shot in your coach like no, no, no no, Like I remember with no Dame.

And when I was in high school, we played kind of how people play now right, a lot outside and eyeball screen, come down, shooting, transition, come off a ball screen and shoot, or get get to the basket to score, get to the basket, kick off. And he was like, now you have to develop a mid range game. We had no secondary break. There was no transition threes like

he took I made a transition three. He took me out late in the season, and you just start to go like, funck, he doesn't think I can make it.

And then and for me, I think my problem would be I would work my ass off in the off season and really work, work, work, work, and then I get in the regular season, and it was so it was so emotionally and mentally taxing to go through practices and everything that I got beat up a little bit in terms of how much I would work regular season, and so it would become kind of like first I would miss, I'd have a bad practice, miss some shots. He'd say something about me trying to prove to everybody

I could shoot. I get down on myself. I would work a little bit less, and the less I worked, obviously the results weren't is good. And it it just kind of snowball, right, So I totally get it, like it's it's really kind of amazing thing. And I think the other thing that's interesting is both you and I, like we're kind of ship talkers, right. We grew up and we talked shot on each other on on Rome

Show back in the day. I don't I don't know if our coaches, because I do think that Eddie said and he would tell me, like you're my whipping boy, You'll be my boy to day you finish you right, Like, hey, that's actually not the way to coach me in terms of my offensive game, right, Like I actually when you when you yeah, and when you learned that it's too late, like you learned that late in the season or late

in your career. It's like because like I played for a really really good high Storming, a great high school coach who wrote me and you know, m asked me, I'll be down the court and everything. But but at the end of the day, like I played every minute and then he had he had confidenced me to get the job done. And so it was it was a two way street, whereas at the next level it's different because and I'll tell you this, you said, what point

did things are wrong? I remember it was like two or three games into the season, and coach always made us run after practice and we were doing sprints, and like I didn't make us one time because we had a two and a half hour practice and then we're doing thirty threes and he just singled me out and made me wrong until I threw up in everything. And I remember you stood over me one time when I was, you know, puking in a garbage trand and he said it very clearly and very loud that he said, Eric,

we don't need you, you need us. And when he said that, you know, now, looking back, I probably should have had a conversation with my dad and say, hey, you know what I need to like hire an agent, go to the draft or transfer or something, because this is him clearly saying that we've moved on from you, you know, and that obviously when you're nine team playing a KU and having a blast, like you don't want to leave that program. But that's now looking back at

something I probably could have done and should have done. Yeah, I actually actually here it would be my Here would be my as I look back at my own because because coach hapth me like, you can't trans because back then you couldn't transfer twice, you know, like I could have graduated early in transferred night after my junior year, I let the country and assist playing only twenty eight minutes a game because I was bench for like eight games um and and barely played anyway, the transferring would

have been. But honestly, if I could go back, I would have just had an honest conversation with him, right like, and I don't know if you were able to have that with with Coach Williams, but just the idea of going to coach set and like, look like again I have these imaginary conversation with coach Sutton had I just walked in and gone like, hey, listen, man, if you will just let me fire up six or seven threes

a game, I'll make a couple. I'll make a couple like right, and and just not take Promise me you're not gonna take me out. I'll take good shots because they're all good shots, because nobody's sucking guarding me. Right Like, you just let me take a couple, everything else will open up. Like I know how to play back. You don't have to tell me. You can yell at me all you want, just don't. I I just hated coming out.

I felt like I'd never get back in. And we had other guys on our team, Joe Atkins and Adrian Peterson be like, funk, I'm taking have to take me out. You can't win without me, and they come back in fire it. I just mentally couldn't do it, so I would shut down a little bit, and it was just kind of snowball I got. I'll remember clear as day. We played North Texas my senior year and all through preseason. I'm going against Victor Williams, a kid who was really

good player. After I finished, he read he transferred his red shooting from Illinois State, and he was, I mean, he was hard for me. He was. He's quick as ship. He's a AU coach workout guru in Kansas City now, and I'm I had a really good preseason shooting the ball, but I was the only guy going against the legit high level D one player was guarding me because we didn't we we played. We didn't even up the sides

when we played in because coach didn't anyway. So we come out, We're playing North Texas and they're like not guarding me at all. Guy at at the free throwing. So I'm like, funk it, I'm gonna shoot every time. I'm I understand, And I hit a couple against you guys, and and so and and slow he started guarding so. But this is early in the year, so they're playing

off me. I take eighteen shots, I make six. Now I come in the locker room, and now I should point out, I had, uh eighteen assists or something in like something crazy in the game like I had. I'm gonna say, like fifteen points and sixteen assists and like two turnovers or whatever. So I come in and I've always grabbed a stat statuet as soon as I come in,

because like, my brain is, what's everybody else doing? You know, I do want to see my numbers, but anybody who plays basketball at a high level usually knew you know your own numbers for the most part. Right, You're like, I know what I shot from you. So he just rips the ship out of me and says, you know, all you care about your status and as sists and points and you sixteen or I don't know, eighteen shots.

Are you kidding me? I've never had a point guard in my life take eighteen shots, right, So it's like ringing in my head, like, look, they were all good shots. I was open, you know, and like his whole thing is like, don't take anything you can't prove to me. You can make seven or eight or ten unguarded in the gym, and I would like I'd make these shots

in the gym. Anyway. We play which to a state the next game, and I'm so petrified to shoot and now they're like not guarding me at all, and it just made life really So I totally feel for you with the confidencing, you know, you just kind of lost your confidence, Like how bad was it for you, like what was what was what was that? Like? How bad was it for me? I think it was about as

bad as you get. You know, um, you know the blood don't damage starts setting in because I was, you know, projecting to be like a lot of a pick and all those different things and that was instantly taken away. So you see that go away with all the potential millions of dollars, which you know, you even know about when you're a young kid in college. It was just it was a really tough time. I remember, like losing weight.

I remember we were on a losing streak and we all rallied together to shave our heads and solidarity, and so I looked, I looked gaunt, and I'm just awful. I mean, it's just a really really bad time in

my life, I remember. And so yeah, and so I just remember after the season we are we lost to we lost to do UM in Puston, Salem, and after the game, coach was addressing the team and he singled me out and called me out and said, you know, basically, you know there's still a player there and you have a chance to redeem yourself, and I'm gonna challenge you to take it upon yourself too, you know, have a summer where you can become the player you were once

before and and you know, come haven't come back. And it really inspired me. And I had one of the best summers anybody had in the history of summer workouts. Remember j Billis did an article on my summer workouts and I was, you know, I was working out with Tim Gurgerich and in Bob Thornton and at U c l a Men's Jim. I mean, I had a personal trainer. I did everything I could do to get back to where I was. But you get back there, you played ten games and then things, you know, the damage is

obviously still done. So I then obviously slipped to the second round draft of the Mixed and started my professional career. But that that will call infidences is the most valuable thing any athlete could you ever have. I'll tell you.

I mean, help number one and confidence number two. Yeah, it's it's interesting, it's um I think that in real sports, especially in basketball, confidence and and maybe conditioning um uh, and and kind of culture kind of all those are three cs that I don't think in broadcasting or in fandom people understand, right, They just they don't get it. And you know that that there are times where you know, guys just you just run out of gas. Your coach

may have. And I wanted to ask you about coach Williams in terms of practices in a second um where you you leave your you know, you leave your game on the practice floor or your confidence. You know, sometimes coaches just don't know how to coach kids. Sometimes kids go through these swings and confidence. Some kids are are not that good, but they believe they are that good,

and some they just make shots to be like. That was Desert Mason's thing his senior year was coach would just feel him full of confidence and talk about how great he was now hard he played and like that dude can't shoot, and damn if he didn't make shots. And he became a great shooter just because he believed he and he and he would work more because it were as some of the rest of us we got beaten down because he was. He never praised us, like

literally never. Um uh okay, I got a funny. It wasn't I'm sure funny from your perspective, but let me shouldn't share my perspective. So my senior year this is your junior year right where you're suffering through I think, or sophomore you're suffering through the malah It was your your junior year. You're suffering through the malaise. We were only a year apart, but in high school we were four years a part of huge thought out and transferred

and red shirted and repeated, no, no, what year? What year did you? What year did you graduate high school? Ninety seven? Kay, that's not four years? Should yeah no, yeah, sure, yes, but but you said in high school we were four years. Differently, in high school, we weren't in eighth grade. We would have been eighth grade. Light Look, dude, when I was in eighth grade, this trustow when I was eighth grade.

I finished eighth grade at Santiago Middle School. Okay, I was five ft tall one and five pounds, so so my and my dad had told me, like, you're not ready.

I wasn't emotionally, physically anything ready for high school. So during during that year, okay, during the fifteen months between June of whatever that was nineteen ninety and September of nineteen nine, one game, fifteen months when I entered high school at Tustin High School, uh in n. I was roughly like five nine five nine and a half a hundred in like twenty five pounds, right, that's like how

much I had grown during that time period. And that year was a total total wash, like athletically everything, like I I understand that, like red shirting, and it's it's gotten to the point of being ridiculous. And we copied kind of the Mirnovich model a little bit um but but there will actually what when you graduated high school? Yeah, so anyway, so we're anyway, so so my my senior year, so my junior year, we lose to you guys. The only time I played a fog and that was the

short time backwards game. But what people don't know about that game was a couple of things like one, I had a couple open shots in the last possession that I turned down and we end up kind of getting no shot and Fred Johncey didn't missed the front of like we should have beaten you in regulation, we didn't and coached never one up there and then and then we lost. Uncle Rico comments, we beat you. Hold on, dude, Robertson catches the ball in overtime him he got fouled.

He did, he did not foul. I mean, we can put the video out. It is. It's one of them. I mean, like when when vital who you know, it's all. It's one of the most calls of sued anyway. So this is junior year. We lose up in in Lawrence and later and we have to stay overnight in Lawrence, and so we go out to the village in to get something to eat. And who's there but Ryan Ryan Robertson, who I'm jealous of because he's the starting point guard in Kansas and that's one of the places I wanted

to go. Plus he gets his fucking bullshit call on senior night to save him because he didn't play well. Plus he didn't like me because in Sports Illustrated, I said, Kansas is really good except for their guards, right, And it's true. Our guards were better than your guards. I mean, you know, Bush's a good, good dude and a good coach, and he as good as Joe Atkins, and nobody was as good as Adrian Peterson and Desi Mason technically as a garden and you know, I thought I was better

than Ryan. So like, like Louie had some dudes in the backcourt anyway. So I go up to Ryan. I was like, hey, man, congrats, but god, that was a bullshit called h bullshit way to end a great game. And he's like, what are you talking about? It's sucking foul were you talking like? He was so defensive about it that it was so fast forward to my senior year and we don't play you guys until I think later in the year. You're you're not playing very much.

He's going with the younger dudes with Heinrich and Collinson and Gooding, and we kick the fucking dog shit out of you guys. We're up so many points in the second half. We went to delay game. We just started running our delay game stuff. Coach calls the time. I was like, Hey, I gotta go to Lawrence next year. Take it easy. We're not no fast breaks to take it easy anyway. So here's the here's the big question.

So we're up, like we're seriously up forty and coaches, you know, doing everything he can to like actually it was eighteen in the first half and Bosh hits like an NBA three before break, like deep three. Somebody doesn't guard him, and we come in and guys are screaming at each other like who the funk left him open? Or you and coaches like I'm don't you're there coming brother?

At that three, like we were so petrified that all of a sudden, you guys wake up and and you know, second half starts and Desmond goes crazy and I make a couple of shots and like when I make shots that the ship is over. I made free throws that night, and so we're in delayed, so it's probably I'm again my memory is really good, but this part I don't remember.

It felt like it was like eight minutes to go in the game, and you guys start fouling me right to get to to get to the bonus to make me shoot free throws and Bowshee fouls me, gets his fourth foul and the this the staff turns up, sums up. It's like, don't foul you have four. The ball comes in bounds the very next play and he fouls again and he's like fuck this and he goes and sits down, and Coach Williams didn't stand up. Okay, so do do you guys, like there is a lot of pumbling wins

you guys have. Do you remember it felt like it felt like you guys gave up. Well I didn't give up. I remember my minutes were really short at that time, so I wasn't I didn't really have a chance to contribute to do much. But I remember that game was over before it started. It was like within the for the first TV time out, it was like we were down twelve. And like I said, that was a part of the season where you know, we hated practices, we

were you know, losing games. It was I mean we lost ten games that year and so and I don't know, that was towards end of the season, so we had lost you know, eight or seven games something like that, and coach had tried everything. He canceled practice and we go bowling. He he ran us he, I mean, we did everything, and it just we just couldn't. We just wouldn't click, you know, just I don't know, you know, there was that that was just a tough time of

the year. So that was one of those situations where I've never given up, but it was just I mean I remember I vividly remember you know, Jeff can foul and kind of walking up the court and I'm tucking his shirt and like plopping down. I remember that, but like, yeah, that was not a fun night. I'm sure it was for you guys. Actually, actually, go ahead, good tell me

a funny story. I have one to go ahead. But my my parents had seen a million games that I was good out, so they were like, hey, we want to start going seeing games like in these other big twelve towns. So my parents were that game and I remember I don't if you remember this, but I think it was my actually my senior we were playing there, but my mother was no senior. You didn't play there.

Senior didn't play there. Okay, well then it was my junior or my mother was battling cancer and um, and she you know, she was stage three, but she was she was gonna make it. And I remember, um, you know, your fans there was a section right behind our bench and they would chirp at us, which is fine, but then one guy said something like, yeah, go home and cry to your Mommy channel with and so the subject

of my mother was so delicate at the time. And you know, my dad us the ex college football players six to you know, three bills at the time. I looked back and all I saw was my dad going straight forward this guy and I was like, oh shit, you know this is gonna be national news. This is like and luckily, uh there was a state trooper that we had behind the bench and he heard and saw the whole thing and grabbed my dad and basically said, don't do this. This isn't worth it. They kicked the

guy out, and now is it. But I remember, like just one thing after another. That was just a horrible, horrible year, horrible time. My mom was dick, I was losing my my you know, my draft spot, and I was falling in second round. We were losing games. It was I mean, I lost one of my best friends um at home and passed away, you know, in a motorcycle accident in the summer. It was the pits. It was awful and so um you know, just talking about

it now brings back all those emotions, I know. But you know what the good news is my mother, uh you know, she's twenty years passed. She's made it through, um, you know, and and I ended up getting to play pro and things are going well now. So we made it through. But it was it was a really dark tough time. Yeah, I mean, like I get my junior was crazy dark too, like I led to leave the

country and assists. But I went through this thing where I got I got thrown out of I got a tea and we lost to Florida Atlantic, and I got a bad tea and and we lost this game to a shitty team. I actually played had eighteen assists and played well, and and then and then and then we played U C l A at the Pond and I get two teas in the first half and we lose by three, and so I'm like, and then Glenn Alexander gets eligible, so I'm I'm the odd man out and

he benches me for like eight games. You know, I'm petrified to shoot to do anything other than like be a robot out there. And and we massively under a tea. We were a top. I mean, if we would have played all our small guys and played small all the way that we played small before everybody else played small with Mason at the four. We played Mason at the five one time against Texas and came back and made it a close game, but he just wouldn't do it like we. We could have won the whole thing playing

small anyway. My point is, like my junior was the ships too, like it was. It's really really hard, and um, I can't imagine, like one of the great things about being me, I look in still Water, I was a pretty big thing. Whatever. But I'm still a six ft white guy who can throw on a hat and a hoodie and disappear like you're a seven footer. At Kansas and anywhere you go, everybody knows you. What is What's that I've always wondered, like, what's that existence? Like when

you literally cannot hide? It was awful, man. And I remember, like there's some the KU has a school paper of the ud K, and you know, they pile it on the campus, so everybody reads the sting and in the in the u d K, the University Daily Cancer, there's a actually called the Free for All and you can call into an eight hunter number and say whatever you want and they will print it in the free for All section of the ud K. And so literally, for

about two months straight, every every time, the first comment was Chenowa sucks, and then it was I mean literally, these are drunk frat boys or whatever calling in and they would print this. And so you know, obviously all school papers have the crossbrod puzzles. You always want to get to that. But like I remember, just I grab it every day, sit down and boom, it's right there.

And then you look around and you're in a classroom with maybe it's the lecture hall there's two hundred people and there people are kind of looking back at you. And then maybe you're in a smaller class there's forty people and they're reading it and looking up at you. It's like you cannot escape it. In Lawrence, Cansas, there's a hundred thousands people in the city. There's students everywhere you go, every you walk, and it was it was

really really odd, really awful time. The one saving grace was my groommate and teammage, Jeff Carry, who became one of my best friends in the whole world. And we would you know, he was just incredibly supportive of me and such a good friend and we I don't know what I would have done without him because he was a big guy, and so we'd go through practice together and he saw all the stuff that was going on, he saw me loose, support from every different angle, and

he was really incredible. And I had I had a really nice girlfriend of time. She was she was really helpful to but like if it wasn't for those two people, like I don't, I can't explain. It was really dark times, it was really really hard. So if you could, if you if you could go back and do it again, you would have left after your left when he kind of when I would have left after my sophomore year.

So I listen to this. So my sophomore year, I was the third player in Kansas basketball history at the average a double double in conference play, will Chamberlain, race La Friends Eric chenwith the only three players at that time. There's been players to do it since, but in that time, it's only three players in Can history to average a double double and conference play. And then I think I averaged like fourteen and ten or something like that. Had a really good year. I mean I showed all my

strengths and all those different things. And I remember, like I when when you get recruited they go to Kansas, they coach gives you this like four year plan. Okay, freshman year, you're all freshman set. You know, Alvera mentioned all conference, and then sophomore year you're gonna be all conference, and then and then junior or you're all American and the Senior Player of the Year, and and so you had all these different goals that set out that you

wanted to attain. And I saw Rape stay all four years. I saw Scott Polit's day for all four years. I saw Paul's day three years back there, guys just didn't leave that early. Remember Elton brand left and it was like, wow, you know he's only a sophomore. Well, so I had a meeting with coach and he was like, yeah, Eric, you know, you can go out and be a top fifteen pick, but you can come back and be a number one pick, you know. And I'm like, yeah, Coach,

I'm gonna come back and be a number one pick. Well, people, what I what I know now, and especially when I do for a living now, A window to get in the NBA is very very very small, very small. And some guys can trick the system and sneak in the first round and get four years in the league and wash out. Some guys, you know, can can can have a different path to get to the n b A. But but for the most part, your window to get there is very small. So if anybody ever tells you, hey,

you're the top fifteen pick, you have to go. You can buy all the insurance in the world, you can do everything you want, but there's too many different variables that can happen when you come back. And so and think about this when you come back or the combine or whatever, it's a devaluation period. When you're playing in the games, you're playing well, you're doing things supposed to do. It's an evaluation period. So when you come back after a really good year, all scouts are gonna do is

try to pick apart what you can't do. Right. So I remember talking about it. I don't know if that's I don't know if I totally agree with that. I'll give you a give example. And look, this is a discussion. This is not we're not we don't have to go into you feel free to hop in. Okay, but you take I remember Harrison Barnes, okay, and um he got to the Warriors and didn't how to play. I talked to the people of the Warriors and they're like, yeah,

he doesn't know how to play. I understand, but but but wait, you're you're you're telling me, but you're you're saying what you're telling me? What saying one thing and then saying the opposite, Right, you're saying that Harrison Barnes should leave, should leave after his freshman year. Um, but he didn't know how to play, right, So it's like from though, that's different, like he well, well here, let

me let me share with my my perspective here. Okay, So again, and I don't I don't echo everything that every NBA scout says, um, because everybody has a different system of evaluation. Right. But but for me, you know, I watched him. He played two years at North Carolina, and obviously the second year he average like a point a half more UM. He shot roughly, he shot like two percent points higher from from the field. He shot I think one percent or two percentage points higher from

three Okay, but the game was much easier. But like, look, he I thought he got better. Now he would have been a top ten pick if he came out his first year, he would have been top ten pick came out a second year. But there's the this do you improve? Do you like? My? I I understand the idea that all they do is pick you apart. All they do is pick you apart. My my thing is I try and pick apart, like, hey, has he improved? Is he

getting better it? What's his body? Like? I think, honestly, you need two years of college because one, I want to see you the second year when you're more comfortable in the system, because, as you said earlier in the party, like your first year, ships moving so fast and you're just a robot and you're just and they're not really you know, look, we did this at Okahoma State, like my first year, even as a transfer, Like, they don't really coach you the first half of the year because

they don't want to freak you out and they don't want and then all of a sudden, like January comes and they start streaming at you and film like what the funk are you doing here? You're like, well, sorry, you didn't yell at me last week. What happened? Um? Whereas you're like your second year, now you the road

games don't bother you, coaching doesn't bother you. You can just kind of be like your second and third years when you kind of find your your and and I think for scouts, you need that second year to see, all right, has this guy figured out Kenny running offense? Canny figure out scatter reports? Has he improved from your one year two. What's his body look like? Because guy's

bodies changed dramatically between eighteen and and twenty one. UM, And so like you're you're kind of you're kind of saying, hey, you should go right away, but then saying, like a Harrison Barnes, like he got there and he didn't know how to play basketball. You didn't know if my NBA basketball. That's what I'm saying. That he didn't know how to play in the NBA type system, in the Carolina system, which you know, secondary break, the one, D two, B three,

which we discussed and all these different things. But he didn't I'll not go to name the name, but someone from the Warrior said he did not know how to play. You know how to play and so but now, no, there's no exact formula across the board. Every situation is different, and I'm just saying in my situation, I played two years, yeah, and I remember and I know Mark working team very well. I've known him forever and I've known since I was fifth sixth grade. He told me. I remember two years

later I saw him. He said, Eric, we were gonna he was in Portland's time. He said, we were gonna trade up to get the six team to pick you. He said, there's no way in hell you would have Philip past sixteen. And if you look at that draft, the first big guy drafted was Elton Branded. I don't know what he went with. It was high. The second seven quarter picked wasn't. It was a European who was playing on a juco in Kansas, who went twelve, who never played in the NBA ever. I don't know the

guy's name. I got to look it up, but I was. I remember sitting that watching the draft, and I was like, what the like? I was? I was? I had known at that point I made the wrong decision. I probably should have gone because you could get there. But on the on the flip side, I have goals of getting to a Final Four, being an All American, all those different things. So and I'll tell you what, Doug. I don't know when the trend started of one and done.

But unless for Earls and other examples less, Earl should have never gone to college. He should have gone straight to the NBA out of high school and he would have played the league for ten plus years. He went to college. He transferred from Ellis, who sat out and kneeds knee issues, bad medical care, and then all of a sudden he's done and now he's, you know, starting

a new life doing something, not playing basketball. When you look at the pass and decisions that people take and if they have the right guy and to make the right decision, it's amazing what can happen in your life and your career at such a young age. So here's the question about less Earle. Okay, there's a question about less Earle. I'm gonna disagree with you in terms of he might have. Yeah, like I that you talked about foll by the way, was Alexander Radovitch from Barton New

Community College. Yeah. Uh. And then and then Cal Bold played bad caw caw Boulder went seventeen to Atlanta out of O d U. He played three years in the league. Man, it is a bad big guy draft, bad bad big guy draft. So that's the window. That's what I'm talking about. Right. So so even if I wasn't ready, at least you get there and you get washed out or whatever, least

you make it. You know what I mean. And that's the right I would say though that it's like I think for the NBA, I think it's a mistake to take the guys out of high school because you can't tell. Like I remember, I remember Sebastian Telfare that was at oh four whatever the big or oh five whatever the big.

Maybe it's so five the big. The last big high school draft was Dwight Howard was in and the McDonald's American Game was in Oklahoma City and I was broadcasting it for ESPN, and you know, you watch the workouts and every night we go to Beers, the place that became Durant's Bar, with some some other bar there. And I remember sitting around with a bunch of these guys, was like, which one of you guys is gonna lose your job over Sebastian Telfare, Like what do you mean?

I was like, he can't play fucking basketball. Like he can't play. They're like, what do you mean? I was like, look, he can make the passes and but he he can't shoot. He doesn't know when to do what he just knows like if I get the ball, every time I get the ball, my job is to try and break the guy down, get to the get to the rim, and if help comes, kick off for a dunk like that's it. Yeah, right,

But it's not even just get buckets. It's just like every and that's not how you play basketball, Like you got to move sometimes the best play is just to pass the ball and and get the funk out of the way. And he like he had no idea how to play, and you could see in his interactions like he didn't really understand how to be a leader. Even though guys looked up to him, he was so interested in being Bassie that he wasn't like you just watched you like this is a disaster, this is bad. That

kid needs college. He needs a coach, motherfucking for a couple of years. For every example like that, there's another example of someone who didn't make the right decision by going early or what happened. And so for him, I mean, his older brother played in the NBA, and he was he was, but his being to who he matched out at a young age, and Melvin Mel his brother mel he had a half brother step brother play the NA. Mean you mean Jamal Jamal Thomas. I don't think. I

don't think Jamal ever played in the NBA. But I played with him in the A B A. Yeah, I played with him in Nick Summerwick, So I know he's a great guy. By the way, he is a great guy. But yeah, but I just I mean and a and a good player. And he went by five. He I wasn't allowed to come, so he played this true story. I played with Phoenix with him in the A B A UM. I think we were Actually this is a

true story. I didn't even know until a couple of weeks ago that our nickname was the Eclipse, the Phoenix Eclipse. I played for a deem and I didn't know, and Mas track was my coach. How about that? So so Mass my coach and he goes and I just got the plane from Israel. I left my team in Israel to come play from mas and for the Phoenix team and they had um and and Jamal was there. And I played against Jamel in college at that Notre Dame, and I was like, I was like, what up, Mel,

He's like, don't call me that. I was excuse me, Like I go by five, Like like Jamal is my government name. He was in this like that's my government name, and call me call me five, Okay, So I remember we're go ahead. Yeah. I was summarily with the Knicks and and uh Cliff and Tibbs and Jeff and the only called him out. They did. And I don't think it's gonna tell the coach now to call him oult what we call him out. Okay, So you get drafted in the second round the NBA draft. Okay, Um, what happened?

Then immediately on a flight out to New York. Um you staying at the Marriott resident in on Parker Avenue and White Plains, New York. Uh. And then I was it was me. They drafted Michael Wright God rest his soul um after me, two picks after me, and so it was me and him, Steve Clifford, Tom Thibodeau and at Sunny purchased every day for six hours. I mean it was literally it was hot gym no A C. And we would do you know, workout starts at nine, so you get there at eight thirty or so, get dress,

get out there, you stretched, loosen up. We do two hours literally two hours of spot shooting, shooting drills, ball, having different drills, whatever, um break, get launch, go back,

lift weights for an hour, cardio for an hour. And mind you, this is in New York in the summer, which you lived up there, you know how it is it's brutal, but every day all the way leading up to camp, and I remember, um, you know, then obviously I was you know, I did on September eleven, Um, I had an appearance with fives of Pharmaceuticals were doing a healthy living promotion. So I was on a second and second at the part of the pharmaceuticals building doing

a promotion there. When the two planes hit, I had to obviously walk up to the Upper East Side and take a train out of the city back up the white planes. But I remember, you know, going through that summer, going through that that event on September eleven, and then kind of feeling like I earned my stripes. You know, I thought, Okay, I have a chance to make this roster.

And I remember, like a week before camp, Jeff van Gundy pulls me in his office and he goes, hey, hey, Eric, I just want you know that you're not gonna make this team, so um, do whatever you gotta do. It's something of the sort like that. And so I was, like it was it was pretty hard pill to swallow, just because you know, I've worked so hard, I've been through so much. I was developing relationships with the guys

on the team. And then all of a sudden, at the eleventh hour, when all camp spots are full, I get the rug pulled out and I now got to scramble to find a place to go, and so um and I and I later on I heard the backstory behind this where Scott Layden really liked me and wanted to pick me. Um. And so they're in the war room a draft night, and I guess guys were throwing out names and Scott Leyden kind of pounded the table and said, up, we're picking Channel with and everybody half

the room was good with it. Half was like, oh God, here we go, and so um. It just obviously they kept Michael right until the very last second and cut him with forty hours left on the waiver line, and so um, you know it was it was a really I don't making excuses, it was at it. You know. I gave me an opportunity, which I appreciate, but it

was a really difficult situation for me. I went to Camp A Sacramento, theready have picked in the guaranteed spots, basically went there to get a pair of socks whatever and go to camp, get the field and then it was off the D League and overseas, and my journey

and career started from there. But um, I do remember being drafted and how good of a feeling that was and how exciting it was, and it was a really nice moment to share with my family and especially my mom who had just beaten cancer, and so um it was. It was, you know, a sign of a comeback, not a full comeback. Obviously I wish I had gone in the first round, but it was. That was actually a really good time in my life, opposed to two years before.

You know, um uh okay, then you one year you had a I thought you were going to make the Lakers Like that one made sense to me. Yeah, yeah, that was interesting. So I remember I went to camp with like I said, it went with it. It was the Knicks, and then went to the Sacramento for camping D League and then in O two I went to camp with Seattle, got cut there and went to the D League, and um, I remember I was playing the

D League and I got no members. Valentine's Day of two three, the coach he cut me on the tarmac. He's like, Eric, this isn't working out. We're gonna go lect you go and I said, okay. So Ajan called me with a bunch of different opportunities overseas and whatever, and I said, you know what, I need to get back to the drawing board. And I remember I came home. I hired a guy named Todd Norman as a trainer,

the Cutting Edge here in Orange County. So I just dedicated myself to improving my body, getting mentally, you know, strong, physically strong, rols, different things. I started working out with an individual coach named Jody Gardner, who's out here is a really good individual guy. And then when all the NBA guys came back for the summer, Shaan ro Shawn Marks and all those guys. You know, I just dedicated myself to getting becoming a better athlete, becoming a better player.

And I remember the Lakers, um you know, invited me to the summer league team and I played really well on that team, and then they invited me to camp, and I remember, you know Phil, I felt like Phil liked me because Coach Jackson liked me because I, you know,

challenged shack. At the time, I'd gotten up to two pounds and I was I was pretty well put together at the time because before I had been the little skinny and so I put my you know, I was benching three thirty pounds of squatting four hunder pounds, and I wasn't really really good ship and I was really strong, and so Phil like the fact that I could challenge shack and practice and so you know, I had that entire summer every day at the facility working out and

um and then working out with coach Rambis and the whole staff there was fantastic. And so we get to camp and actually Phil started me in a couple of games, which was pretty crazy. We only we had a T and T game at at Staples Center and Phil wrote up on the board chennow with and I'm like I looked around and I was like, this is a shoot around. And so I knew all day I was started for

the Lakers. And I'll never forget Gennaro Pargo. We were walking through our cars and He's like, damn, and you started with the Lakers man, And he was like teasing me about it, and Kareem Rush was and Luke Walton and Brian Cook all those guys were like hey, like and I first split second thought, I was like, I'm gonna make this team. This is crazy. And then I remember Steve Kirk, who I was, you know, a buddy

and I really respect him. He was like, you know, I've been monitoring Eric for his you know, short career so far, and I think he's good enough to make it. And I think Eric's gonna make this roster. And I remember my dad hearing that. I mean, everything was aligned to make the team. And then right towards the Brian Russell Uh hurt his knee and um he required surgery. He was gonna about for two months, and so Mitch called me in and said, Eric, we cannot cut someone

if they're not healthy. You have to pass your as exit physical in order to be released. Well, he cracked his knee and had surgery whatever, and he says, we can't cut him, so we're gonna cut you. And that one really really stung because I've done so much to get to that point. I'd really developed a relationship with Shaq, Kobe even respected me. I felt like a little bit.

We did the King's Drill where there's four big men of one on one on the post was me, Shaq car Malone, um Um Uh Sampson and another big guy Kimeron who was horse Grant one on one of the post to five and it Shack car all these names and I won the first one to five. I won it. It's called the King's Game. And when we came back to the center in like Phil was like one and and I didn't say anything. I just stood there with a mouth shut in Shack was like the other big

order women. And Kobe looked at me and I gave me like a punch on the chest, like all right, o se because he comes from March kind of call. And that was like a feeling of like wow, I'm like I'm gonna make it anyway. And then Brian Russell. Fast forward two years later, I was in camp with the Nuggets. The same thing happened there too. I had a really good chance of making the team and he got hurt again and U and they had to keep him. So that was my fortune and that's how it goes.

But that's you know. But still that month with the Lakers in camp was the best experience I've ever had in my life in any level. It was so funny, so that the thing I liked about and I was at the Lakers three different times in I did the I did Summer league? Was it oh one summer league?

Oh one Summer league? This is when you were at the Knicks um and I played in the Summer league team, and the all three years I did, uh like they had a vet minicamp before you went to Hawaii and like the first the first year, I I literally flew

back from Italy. I was, I was with the team in Italy, and I thought I had this shot to it was me and Mike Pemberty, and I did everything better than Mike Pemberty except that dude could fucking shoot, like, I mean, he could just fun he coaches with him now, I mean, he can fucking just shoot the fucking ball. And and I didn't really and like triangles a bad offense for me, but you know, Tex helped me get in there, and then they liked me and they're like, hey,

you know, go play overseas and come back. So I came back from Russia and now I was good. But they had also brought in Pemberthy and Joe Crispin, who can also fucking shoot, and both those dudes made it and I didn't. Then the third year, those guys, I think the third year those guys were both kind of embedded in the roster, and by then I was like I was good, Like I could hoop and I had gotten rid of some of the mental ship and I

understood the offense. But you know, it's like, look, you like a limited shooter, as no matter how good athletically year off pick and roll, you are in that offense as a third point guard, like they don't really fucking need you. But what I loved about the Lakers was, um, they treat every dude like I even when I knew I wasn't gonna make it like I'd come in, I'd get massages, I work out like. They treat you just

like you're on the team. But there is something too that when you walk down that when we walk down, as you know, you check, you walk in, you say hi to the receptionists, you walk and then you see these pictures of all these incredible Lakers, like funk I could be on the Lakers. I'm like this close, and then Mitch comes in, He's like, hey man, we think you're great. You should really think about the D League

and we'd think about calling you up. And when I'm like, wait that that I was just walking down thinking I was making the team anyway. Okay, so so what you do now is you have you insure you insure uh, some of the great athletes in college. Like how did you get into this and what do you actually do? Yeah? Thank good questions. So obviously retired away got in the

coaching for a couple of years. Made no sense. So umo, folks, job was finding a job and I almost took a job at a d g um Philip and Shoots is that you know? K you guys? So you fought to a resume and almost did something there and right before I did it? Wait wait wait, Philip and Shoots is a K you guy. I want to make sure that people understand this. Okay, this this is really really this

is a big This is my big thing. Okay. And I understand what you're saying about going straight at a high school to to to to the pros if you can. The problem with it, by my estimation, is there'll be so many kids that go they'll end up in the G league. They don't understand. Everyone talks about the value of college and I pisses me off, and there's no value to college. First, like, there's lots of jobs you

can't have without a degree. But the big thing you get in college is like you're part of that school and basketball programs family. And here's the perfect example if you wanted to get into coaching, I'm guessing coach Williams Carolina family. There's there's you could find NBA or college. Somebody would find a chair for you. Correct a very very small chair, grinder chair, but at least the chair, guys.

Job offers I got was like thirty grand as a video coordinator in X Y Z, right, But but like but like look c b CB started there and look where he is now, and look at it like that's I mean, like I understand the coach Jared had I mean that's that's I mean, look, Coach Williams started as a manager and now he's you know, he's arguably the most successful coach you know, in the history of the sport.

So um okay. The other part is like like you said, like Philip Manchew's can make a call for you because he's a Kansas guy. And I don't know if enough people understand like this is really the way it works. Is what you need college force? When should I needed? Like before Boone Pickens died and I didn't have I didn't I knew him. I didn't. We weren't like best friends or whatever. But if I really legitimately needed a job, I would have called Boone and said, hey, can you

help me out? And he would have said, tell me who to call and I'll figure it out. Right. That's that is There is a value to that. And I talked about this all the time too. We can talk about you know, a million different things with the name image like the stuff, but network that I've tapped into and worked on a daily basis with KU has changed my life. So think about KU, which is an amazing institution. It's a great place to go to school and people

to work with. I think if you went to like Stanford or I Presage School, like the value and those relationships with all those people in Silicon Valley about different things. That is dismissed so much and it's ridiculous and so really quick. So, like I, my full time job was

finding a job. So I reached out to and Shoots as secretary, and he got to him and I said, here's my resume, and and I along with that resume was data Anderson who was the president and chairman of the board of the Main Switch Corporation, which is a massive uh strip mall company that he was chairman of board on who is a huge donor for KU, who helped me with the resume, helped me prepare for interviews, all those different things, you know, guiding me along, who

was amazing in my you know, transition out of basketball into the professional world. You know, he said, here's you got a call to get to fill up, and so I got to fill up. So still literally said I'll float your resume. And that's all was is. This is coming down from the man and actually stud Heathcote, who you might know I was a reebok eye. You see that guy, he's now Global Partnership has picked it up and got me an interview, and he was gonna find out a way to get me in there, you know.

And that's all because of the A and A E G. It really is. So that's what people need to think about. So and we can talk about how valuable colleges you know, down later. But but so I got so I was going to take a job there. And I grew up

with the Boone family, Aaron and Matt. Matt's my best friend, my son's godfather, and so uh, Aaron's best friend is his partners A partner at a firm called Parker Visors in Beverly Hills, Ryan Straungswag, and so they were like, hey, before you take the job, you shoul gonna meet these guys in Beverly Hills. They do insurance for athletes. And I was like, oh, well, I had a policy when I played at Kansas. I know how this works as

a consumer. Let's figure this out. So we had a two hour meeting and they kind of hired you on the spot into this gal. So that was in two or September twelve is when I joined this firm. And so what I what was great for me was I was digging job coach for jobs for three years and immediately turned my hat and said, listening to coach, I'm not gonna bug you about you know, um, you know, getting a job. Here's what I do. Now, here's I can help you. And every coach came back and said,

oh my god, I don't understand this stuff. I know you, I trust you like you're our guy. And so I was immediately plugged into you know, Carolina, Kansas, Well, Kansas took some time obviously, um but which is a side story, but uh, it was immediately I was like, here's your opportunity, like you know whatever, coaches recruiting me twenty years from ago, we're now saying hey, I got this guy, what did

you qualify for? What should we do here? And my business model was simple and that I called coaches and I called compliance officers because I remember when coach, when I was a KU I had coached, My dad said, er kia policy, I want to talk to coach. Coach, Yeah, go to talk to Richard Conson down the home. Compliance was taken from there, so I knew all I'm gonna do is call compliance directors and developed willerships with them

and so um so as soon as so. Now fast forward eight years later on my own firm now out and basically what happens is I monitor all the draft boards for college football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and as soon as guys have rolling school, I'm reaching out to the school saying, hey, here's the student app that just enrolled, here's what the qualified sports, what we can do for him, and then we go from there. If they utilize my services, great,

If not, you know, it's fine, too. But what really took off in my career, which was crazy, was when I was like I had to get a loan and pay off a loan once it turned pro to pay for the insurance. Well, my second year in doing the in the business, the n c A changed the rules with the Student Assistance Fund, allowing them to have the schools have full autonomy on the s a F. So saf's designed for emergency revisit bills, you know, diapers and a player has has a child, you know, flights home

for funeral suits, if you travel, things like that. Well, once they came full autonomy, Texas A and M said, well we got a big offensive alignment and head policy. We're gonna spend fifty grand on his his policy and so it's a copycat everything. And so it kind of took off like wildfire, where two years I was helping these kids get loans to buy the insurance. Now was hey, we're gonna do this and we're gonna pay for it.

And so it really took off from there. The schools schools can pay for these policies now correct correct yes, and they can pay for it out of what's called the Student Systems Fund based on U, cost of attendance, costs of living, a couple of factors. Each school gets to check from the n c a A for approximately two hifty three hundred thousand dollars that they can use for whatever they want. Some schools use the whole thing

for insurance. Some schools used don't use it. But I'm you know, at a sixty schools I work with, I would say about use it is a portion of it for insurance and so and I'll talk about how great college is because of what it can do for you later in life. I want this. I have a client on a team in the big private school in the big Tent. So he's getting a scholarship. There's only one private school in the big ten. I hate to be well, actually no, it's not private now that I think about it. So,

but it costs about forty five thousand dollars. You're gonna go there, Okay. So he's got a forty five scholarship between pale, grant, grant made all these different things. You get to check for five hundred dollars, which you can use it as a discretion for whatever he wants. And he's got a two million dollar policies of his career end. Um, he collects two million dollars to start in your life with.

That's a pretty good life, if you ask me. I mean, I think that's a that's better than playing in the D League. That's better than you know, I don't know how good it is a life of it's being on a practice squad in the NFL or the miners in NHL or the miners in Major League Baseball. That's pretty amazing to have for three or four years while you're on campus, and then to go to the next level, which kind of goes back to another composition. I'm sure we'll get too. So so yeah, so that's what I do.

I work with you know, college athletes all over the country once they turned pro. I work in conjunction with their financial advisor or agent. If I'm really busy with it right now, because guys are in NBA training camp and um, they may have you know, a hundred and fifty million on the table, but they want won seventy six or whatever they want over four or five years. So we'll bind them in a million dollar, fifty million dollar policy whatever they need uh to cover their firtual

future earnings until they sign. Once they signed. Obviously the insurance has done its job, and then I follow up to sell them life insurance for a state planning purposes. So um, yeah, so that's all I do. I just do insurance. I don't do investments or tax prep or anything like that. I just do insurance, which allows me to work with college and professional athletes and so doing many years and it's um, I love it and I'll do it forever. So that's what I'm doing now. Okay, Uh, last, last,

I get to two quick ones. One. Has anybody actually ever executed one of these policies you being collected on? One? Yeah, I've had several claims plaid. I had a I've had a college football loss of value claim paid. I've had an NBA basketball player loss of value claim paid, and I've had a college football PTV claim paid. I don't name names, don't I'm not that guy that brokers out there that'll tweet allow that stuff. I keep it confidential.

But so there's three products you get. There's permanently disability, which is career and in coverage whether you know you can't play your sport over again, you collect on PtD due to an injury or illness right, there's loss of value. We assess your your your draft spot, and we assess, okay, you're projected tent in the draft. We're gonna set a threshold at the end of the first round. If you get hurt or have an injury an illness, you fall out of the first round, you'll start collecting each pick

you fall. That's loss of value in the nutshell. And then there's a new product called critical injury, which is two categories of injury. So if you category one being a major injury such as a torn a c l achilles uh, you know, rotator cup, Tommy John. If you're a picture um loss of cider cancer, you collect two or fifty thousand dollars. In the category too, would be a major muscle group tear so torn growing by sept tries to hamstring quads, your quadratp. You get a hunt

of that not benefits. So those are uh. You start with the PtD and you add loss of value or critical injury. As a writer, law of eyes kind of going away. There's been a ton of claims paid on it, so they're only doing it for the top top guys, but most guys that they're a solid player are going to qualify for the critical injury. Um the writer that they can add to the p TWD policy. Um okay. And then and here's the last thing I'll get. I'll

kind of give you the floor. But I mean, like, look, people know that I I value the college system for among the things that we've said. But but the name and likeness fight, which to me, it's gonna be pay for play, right, Like, guys don't really have and and and in fairness, I I when I tweet out that guys don't have a value, they don't have a huge value. But what you do is you pull together all your values. And that's how the coaches and the athletice departments had

these local sponsorship deals, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. I feel like people were we're operating on old news in terms of like you pointed out kid having twenty seven thousand dollars to spended his discretion tax free, you know, for a year to play in college. Like I don't like we've gotten this point to which like, look, we're good enough, is in fact enough And part of being in colleges

you've got to manage whatever finances you have. You have to learn and you're never gonna starve because now you have unlimited meals and things like that. What's your take on the name and likeness, Well, it's I mean, obviously governors are signing it left and right, so it's gonna have to be something that's gonna be addressed before three. But um, you know, personally, like I think the perfect example is, like, you know, Zion Wing was a good example.

So hoo this it was like last June or something like last may or June. I had a couple uh apparel companies reach out for quotes um for Zion because Zion had an offer from an apparel company for about forty million dollars on the table, right, So they're gonna say take this money and uh just work were out with the Cones and you go to the draft and then you know, we'll see what what what happens from there. So he's gonna get forty million dollars signed an apparel company.

And so he wanted to buy Hi an assurance policy. And so I remember talking to on Gavanni, who I talked to a lot about you know, players and different things, and he and that we were like, well, if he doesn't play this year, he's not gonna prove himself. John was kind of like, you know, I don't want to quote John or speak for him, but he was like, well, if he does that, he's gonna want you know, he'll probably fall to like the twelve to twenty range because

we don't know who he is. I mean, he can he can dunk on these small kids in South Carolina, but like, can he play? You know? And so, so you got forty million dollars from the Parel company, you're probably a twelve to twenty pick. Well, he made the right decision and went to college to play for Duke, which is probably one of the best three platforms in college to be on. So I had a great year, Player of the Year, Goes has a good run in the in the in the tournament, and then what's he do.

He signs a near hundred million dollar deal with Jordan Brand. He's the number one pick in the draft signing for it's gonna be forty million over four years. And to look at it, he tripled his market value by going to college and having one year there and he and he's the he's the one percent where the rest of

the kid have don't don't even have those offers. You know what I means like correct and which so I feel like you you you run the risk of destroying the entire system for a guy like Zion, and a guy like Zion ends up benefiting from every moment that he plays in college. Perfect. And I'm gonna add to this one more thing too. And you know this as a former student athlete. There's a sports we called non

revenues track and field. You know, all these different sports that you know, wrestling would have you steams when they wrestling, but but they don't, you know, generate any income. All those sports are going to go away if they completely change the model and it's a full pay for play system.

And that really bothers me because I had so many friends in college and I know about stories of people in horrible economic backgrounds and systems where they have their only chance to get out of what situation they're in is to get a scholarship playing a sport, to go to a school to get a degree, to better their life and move on into the workforce. And that vehicle is playing a non revenue sport at whatever school that is gonna go away. And that's what really makes me sad.

Because just there's so many there's so many kids out there that I don't care what sport it it's golf or tracking or whatever, that those opportunities are gonna be gone because all the money's gonna be going too. The players that people say, by rights earn it because people are turning on the TV to see them, but the turn of TV see them because they're playing at Duke or Kansas, U c l A or Arizona or whatever.

Nobody watches daily games like I played the dealing. It's a waist line of broken dreams the better players, but it's worst basketball. And it's like, you know, I think there needs to be some kind of common ground where they are compensated something. We've got to figure that out.

But it can't just be you can market yourself, because then all the big schools are gonna have you know, I'm gonna get a million dollars from Longo to to play basketball at U c l A. And it's just that's just what's gonna happen, and so you can't regulate it. So they've got to just find out something that all parties can coexist. And with this beautiful thing of college basketball. College athletics isn't just wiped away or changed or or

you know, unrecognizable after That's just my humble opinion. Hey man, I'm really happy that all the stuff that you went through as a player as a human being, now your dad a husband and you're making in life and glad to call your friend. I appreciate you join us. We gotta do this again. We gotta we gotta do the room at some point, we have to do the room discussion. We'll do some work, some hips discussion as well, but

in the with time as the as the essence. Thanks for joining us, of course, appreciate it, Dog, Thank you. Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug god Leap Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific. Well, I hope you enjoyed that great conversation. We've been long time kind of friends, uh no friends, long time friends, and we live close to each other. We'll do it again. Able to talk some ball after a big Kansas game

or something like that. Um. You can listen to The Doug Gottlieb Show every day three to sixty Eastern twelve to three Pacific on Fox Sport trade of the I Heart Radio app um or you can download that podcast if you'd like. In the meantime, thanks so much for listening. Don't forget to download, subscribe rate tell a friend tweeted out whatever. Next week, I think what we'll do is we'll probably have a special guest in preview the NBA because the season gets on away on Thursday, but we'll

preview kind of the whole league. Um some trends, some things to look at, and so on. So far. In the meantime, thanks for listening. I'm Doug Gollip. This is all ball