Kyrie will exhaust KD; UCLA Asst. Mike Lewis on coaching with Brad Stevens and playing for Bobby Knight

I you started for four years. Got some Bob Nights stories, um, And then we'll talk about coaching and coaching with with Brad Stevens and what that's really like coaching with Tim Miles this last year now being an assistant coach at u c L A. Plus he played for uh Rick Berry in the usb L. We played against each other, So we got some good stuff going on with with Mike Lewis. He'll join me in a moment. We're less than a week away from the free agency bonanza, and

I don't know what to think. You know, this is kind of strangely what we've built up to all year is having nothing to do with actual basketball. Um. I'm torn on the Kyrie Irving thing because I've been somebody who's trying to tell people just how talented he is. But I had no idea how much of a pain the ass he was until I talked to some people that were in Boston and people that have been in Cleveland, and they all kind of say the same thing, which is, like, dude,

he's amazingly talented. He's not a leader. And um, he's one of those guys that he's smart enough. It's not like he's Magna cum Latti, like you know, he's a bright enough guy, but he thinks he knows everything. So he tries to look for, you know, higher meaning for every little thing you just want to get, like oh, just wears people out. And because he was kind of brought up in this under Lebron's wing, that's how you lead. He tries to be Lebron James and Evisceray dudes in film,

and he's not Lebron James. And even Lebron remember he when when he lights into dudes, which he didn't do this year. This year, he would just turn very negative on guys. He's he's still been Lebron James and all those guys have been brought in, you know, to play with him, whereas you know, Kyrie Irving was brought to the Celtics and then they played without him, and so it's just doesn't have a great feel for the social

jiu jitsu. As a friend of mine says of the moment, So I'm Kevin Durant, Like, is that the guy I want to tie my ship too? Like? I have a choice of Steph Curry, who's like, look, is Steph easy to play with? Maybe not? He takes some crazy shots, he turns the ball over. You gotta hide for him defensively, but as a guy, he's easy. Or you got Kyrie Irving, who is a better ball handler, is an incredible shotmaker. Differently, um but does something is actually better than Steph Curry.

But it's just every day is heavy. It's not that much fun. I don't know, I've as I just stay in Golden State. Everybody's everybody wants to accomplish all these things off the basket before you have the best way to accomplish things out the BASKETBA floor is win fucking championships. Excuse my language if you have kids listening to this, but this whole idea of you know, if you go to New York, you can lots of guys that played in New York. You see any of them on TV. No,

you know why their team sucks. That's why do I see Steph Curry on a bunch of ads? Oakland was in some big market. Steph Curry is awesome. That's it, right, that's it. Lebron James had no trouble getting ads in Akron or in Miami. Why because he's Lebron James. He's awesome. Russell Westbrook has no problem getting ads. Paul George has no problem getting as he played Indianapolis and Oklahma City. If you're really good and you got a good personality,

you have option options. Like it is just such a such a bunch of bullshit that you have to, like, you gott to move to New York. Why because rich Climbing lives in New York? Like all right, Like the perfect example actually is billionaire Row for the Golden State Warriors. Why not to New York when all the people with all the money, all the game changers, they're right here. I hate to be that guy, but all the game changers in the world are in Silicon Valley. That's where

the money is. Even in our industry. Like we're all just waiting to see when Apple or Facebook or Google or Amazon or Yahoo. They just you know, they just buy something. They're like, all right, we have f you money. Here's f you like they do that. They can buy all of us ten times over. And you want to win to New York. That's the media capital of the world. No, it's not the capital world is in Silicon Valley, Dude, I hate to I hate to be that guys, like,

this is not the ES, It's two thousand. All the money is in San Francisco and all the unknown and yeah, there's some pitfalls and played in Golden State. Might not be your team whenever they might only had to call in you to bail them out. You gotta play both ends. Gets a little bit old, Okay, I'll tell you what's worse. The monotony of losing teaching people who have never won a franchise, has never won to win. I just this whole idea of like, you gotta go to New York.

Why Jerry Lynn had to go to New York because he was a nobody got an opportunity with a team that was banged up and a co in Mike D'Antoni. You're not jermy Lyne're Kevin Durant. Stay where you are with a bunch of titles. Have the Last Laugh. By the way, you can listen to my daily radio show three to six Eastern or twelve three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio or the I Heart Radio app. Alright, let's

get you to Mike Lewis. He has just become a new assistant coach at U c l A. He played in Indiana, He coached at Brett Butler, he coached in Nebraski coach the Eastern Illinois coach of Texas Tech. He coaches Stephen F. Austin without fur their doo. Here's my discussion with U c l A assistant former Indiana player and captain Mike Lewis. All right, let's start at the beginning, right, Jasper Indiana. Right, that's where you were Mr Basketball in

the state of Indiana. Um, you're you're like you started whooping when like birth. Right, That's that's an Indiana thing. You grew up whooping the driveway. Did you have a half court out back pick? Give me the picturesque Indiana setting of Mike Lewis's upbringing. Well, I had a basketball goal in the the driveway, but I was I was lucky to have a have a dad that was a

basketball coach, um in high school. Coach in high school, and so I was I was lucky enough to tag along the practices and um games, and so I was always I was always in a gym. Um. But yeah, I mean everybody in Indiana grows up. Um. You know, there's there's hoops everywhere. I mean, if you can, you've got a flat side of the building, you can go to basketball whoop on it in Indiana. So it's obviously a great place to grow up. Um. I was always around the game. My grandfather coach. Like I said, my

dad coach. My grandfather became the commissioner of the Indiana High School Athletic Association for many years until my junior year of high school when he retired. Um my dad coached all the way up until my junior year high school when he became the athletic director um at our at our high school. And so I just always around the game. UM. Very fortunate from that aspect, probably like you just you know, having a dad that that allows you to develop and grow at your own page as

a basketball player. And when when when you're allowed to grow up that way, you learned to love the game and appreciate everything that the game can give you. Okay, So your dad was the coach of Jasper, your entire yours now now we moved, We moved around. Like I was born in Indianapolis. My dad was an assistant coach at Lebanon High School just on the northwest side of Indianapolis for legendary high school coach named Jim rosen Steele who coached Rick Mount way back in the day. And

that's where my dad got his start. And then he became a head coach Triton Central High School, Lufton High School, at Frontier High School, and then we moved to Jasper, Indiana when I was going into second grade, and he became the varsity assistant at Jasper and was that held that position when he became the athletic director my junior year high school. So he wasn't then he moved around, We moved around. I was. I was. I Actually, the

funny story is I grew up a Purdue fan. When I was a little kid, I went to prede basketball camps and I worked camps as a counselor all the way up and you know, until I got into high school. And and then obviously Jasper from the southwestern part of Indiana, and you're in you're in Merston, and I U culture and and uh that's when it became pretty apparent I was gonna go to Indiana. I had a chance. Why did you like Why why did you like Perdue? Because

everybody else, like Indiana was one of those things. Well, yeah, I mean Frontier High School was twenty minutes from Prince Campas I spent a majority of my younger years up until second grade, I was in northern Indiana. Um, and at that time, like you didn't have you know, ESPN wasn't big, you didn't you got Channel four, and so you saw the games on TV at that time. And in Indiana you got Perdue in Indiana and on football

Saturdays you got Notre Dame. So I just grew up around pretty basketball up until second grade when we moved to southwestern Indiana. And uh, you know I was able to My dad worked the camps. I would go with him. I gotta be a counselor at a young age, and uh, I just kind of had that and then and then obviously things changed as I got older. Okay, so, uh, you're in high school, your dad, so your dad wasn't

the varsity head coach now he was assistant coach. So what And then when when did you start playing varsity? I started playing as freshman. I started, um um, as a freshman in high school, I played uh my first name, I played three quarters of JV one game of arsity. Um my second game, I've played one quarter of JB, three quarters of varsity, and then I played the rest varsity. So I was I was. Actually I actually had a teammate high school teammate named Scott Roland, who obviously is

a Major League baseball fame. So he was a senior when I was a freshman, and and um, you know, it was a great good time. A lot of people don't realize, oh one was what a great basketball player he was. He's Namdi, an all star, sent a scholarship of Georgia. And then obviously I think he made the right decision by pursuing baseball. Um, but out standing high school player. Your childhood hero was who Damon Bailey? Okay,

what town did day? I mean, like, I I know the legend of David Bailey and and this is like that you're gonna have a distinct cutoff between anybody our age and anybody like five years younger probably doesn't, right, Like, I just were just being kind of honest. And it was because of it is because of the Season on the Brink really where when Steve Alford was there, who was all everything, all anybody could talk about was Damon Bailey. He committed to Indiana as like a freshman, and uh,

it was kind of looming over. Everybody's said the damon Damon Bailey's coming. Um, so so take me through the Damon bailthing. He grew up where he grew up in Bedford. Uh we're actually a small town, um just outside of Bedford, but he went to Bedford North Lawrence High School. Um, I mean it's kind of hard to explain if you weren't growing up or we're if you weren't in Indiana at that time. I mean he was like the Beatles. I mean everywhere he went, every gym was sold out,

every game was sold out. Um, he would just get mobbed everywhere he went. And a lot of it was, you know, because of the Season on the Brink book and the notoriety that he got um from that when coach knight Win watched him as an eighth grader, um, but he uh, I mean he and then he had a great, great high school career, had had a really good college career. But just you know, I mean, who can live up to the expectations of what was was

put on him at that time? But he was he was everything in anybody in in the n at that time you wanted to grow up and and be Damon Bailey. And then, um, you know, the Pacers had started to get rolling as I got into junior high and so you know, then I guess you know, my second childhood hero would be be Reggie Miller, which is it's kind of ironic now you're sitting sitting on a campus where he once walked around. I was this ball boy a

couple of times because I was. I grew up playing with with the Hazard boys, um with you know, Doc Hazard and with Jalil and um Rashid Hazard and so Rashid and I would go be ball boys. And like here here's what people don't know about about Reggie. He was an unbelievable college player as a shooter. But they

were terrible. They were massive underachievers, like for for years they they had so much skill, but he pooh Richardson Um Charles Roshlyn like they had his squad, and I remember going to like n I T games and I was like, how are these guys in the n I T. When they at U c l A. Was just kind of a it's kind of one of the things that gets glossed over a little bit, but that that is so. But the n I T was was much bigger at that time, you know. But I remember like, this is

not this is not the sixties, dude, or seventies. I'm talking mid eighties. Yeah, so we're talking. We're talking mid eighties U c l A in the mid eighties, in the in the in the in the in the n I T against Fresno State in the Red Wave. Um, that that's not exactly what they were what they were thinking. So well they beat I know, they beat the Hoosiers

and that. But I was I was in Indiana All Star after I graduated high school, and and we were working out in Indianapolis since we're getting ready to play Kentucky, and um, you know, Reggie was doing an individual workout on well there's this little workout facility. I mean, I'm

not even sure it's still there. Was on I U P UIs campus, which is where we were practicing, and he was kind of finishing up a workout and obviously you've got twelve uh Indiana high school players you know there and and so we you know, they brought Reggie over and introduced this and we actually gotta play you know,

a small pickup game you know with him. Um you know, which which I'm sure at that time was a highlight of many of our guys, is you know, careers, you know, to just step on the floor and play against Reggie uh in back in when he was ripping and rawn for for the Pacers. So, um, you know, when you grew up in Indiana, you're you're not you're a you're a produce fan, You're a you're an Indianapolis called sand

and you're you're an Indiana Pacer fan. And so to be able to step on the flora with him as a high school player at that time, uh, you know, it's huge for all of us. Yeah. In fairness, his senior year they did win the pac ten that uh pout. Richardson was a sophomore that him put Richston got named Trevor Wilson, who was like an energizer bunny. Um, Greg Foster was a freshman. Jackie the the late Jack Hayley

was there. My boy, Kevin Walker was like a six eleven shooter wh would be like a first round draft pick as a stretch five nowadays. Uh so they they had a squad, but there were a couple of years there with a little murky when uh you're early on when he was at all. Right, So, um, your senior year you were Mr Basketball was Gatorade Player of the Years at the same as Mr Basketball. Actually I was Gatorade Player of the Year. I was runner up on Mr Basketball. A guy named Kevin a guy named Kevin All.

He went to Warsaw High School in northern Indiana and went and played at Southwest Missouri Status now Missouri State in the Missouri Valley. UM actually was recruited by Steve Alford Missouri State. He won Mr Basketball. Um, I came

in second. We had it. There was a really good player named Roon Cornell's going to Purdue UM that finished under that and you know, honestly, looking back, Um, there was a guy that knew Albany High School, UM that may have been the best player in Indiana that year and then named Lamont Rowland and he he had gone to Ball State, gotten some trouble, went to junior college route and then Um finished his career at l s

U UM. But when you get into practices and you get into competing, and you know how it is that guy stand out and and Lamont may have been the most talented player, uh in our class at that time. But no, I I was running up. I was, I was running up to Mr. Basketball. Not not that it's still kind of sticks in my crawl a little bit. I know. I know so no, no so so, and it should here's this is funny. So you know, like I'll tell you I was. We had we had rankings,

we had the best in the West rankings. UM and a guy who was there's a there's a guy ahead of I don't know from San Diego I'd never actually heard of. I think he panned out, uh flamed out of sending a statement. The guy who's like ranked behind me, who I never played against, was Jason Terry. And I was like, who's Jason Terry from Seattle, Washington? And uh, the jet actually committed he was going to you Dub and then he changed his mind and went to Arizona.

I remember for a long time, but like, dude, that guy I've never even heard of him. Obviously now you know, fast forward, I'm an idiot. He's awesome player. Um. And then for me it was my my second time round after I transferred from Notre Dame, I sat out for a year. Kansas took Ryan Uh. Ryan Robertson was there, and Ryan Robertson was McDonald's All American ahead of me, and like, look the Magic's roundball thing I got to play in. Chauncey Phillips was there, was I was a

replacement for Chauncey got hurt and their Stephan Marbury. There's one of the guy Brian Williams went to Alabama. I thought that was better than but Ryan Robertson, like I always had like this personal vendetta against him because I was like, man, how could they take him at Kansas instead of me? And then I was like, he's actually really good. He played in the NBA. He's actually a pretty happy there's no question, go ahead, no, you go ahead.

I've never I've never felt helpless on a basketball court. And when I had to guard Chouhnson Bill. So the first round in the n c A tournament my freshman year. Um, I think we're like an a ceed they're a nine seed. Um, you know, we kind of have a little bit of THEU elitist you know, thoughts like who's you know Colorado? You know, blah blah blah. Um. Then we go in and they smoked us. They smoke us in. Um, you know, I mean Chauncey was just like he was just so strong,

so under control. Um, you know, I'm a freshman and and uh, he just I mean I think he gave me like thirty four thirty five. I'm still a matter of fact, I'm still waiting on some checks from Chauncey because I think he was about a mid to late first round pick and in the n c A tournament after he dropped us off that I un he was he got into the lottery. So I'm still still hoping maybe to meet up with him, maybe he'll give me

a a little bit of that extra money. I didn't feel so bad years later once he, you know, became the NBA Finals MVP, but I was. I've never it's a terrible feeling. I'm sure we've all had it, but I've never felt more helpless on a basketball court been trying to Gordon Chauncey BIPs had played thirty two minutes only at twenty four points. Uh it does yeah right, Um, that's funny. That's really funny. Yeah, here's here's my here's

my here's my Chauncey story was he came out. I'm gonna say he was a junior and there used to be these events the Pumps would put on at cal State Domingus Hills and I don't remember who he usually played with, but but everyone had heard of Chauncey. He was like the best guard in the western United States. And so he came and he stayed at my house, and um, and like you know, we played together for

a weekend. It was it was a good tournament. Maybe it was for like a week during the summer, and it was like the first week of summer before you go to Vegas. He played with us and stayed at our house. We practiced for a couple of days, and I just remember, like my dad was my dad. Yeah,

Like I always played point for my dad. My dad was like, you know, you can let bring it, bring it whatever he wants, which was my dad's wave of saying, like he's so much better than you because and and and in fairness, like Chauncey was, you know, and he was a scoring guard where I was obviously if it's

even at that level like a facilitator. But um, but I I just I remember playing and it's it's one of those you have those moments when you're on a basketball floor and you and you're just like, oh, that guy is gonna play in the NBA. And and I grew and and and in southern California, like you had a sense that you know, was Paul Pierce or Ricky Price or I grew up? JR. Henderson was on my team, Miles Simon. You always thought like those guys are really good.

But there was a there was like this calm elegance to the way he played that is a very unique style. Like other guys, they're just a I when I was in Georgetown, when I was it Notre Dame, we played Georgetown, and like I ressumely just a physical free because he was fast and quick. Um, he wasn't. He wasn't very good, but he was fast and quick, and so it just made him like holy sh it, you just hope he misses. But there was there was no kind of uniqueness to

his study was just a blur. Whereas Chauncey, he was like sixteen years old and he just he looked he felt like an NBA veteran, like he knew everything about everywhere where everyone was supposed to be. He was so any, made shots, he was so good. So, uh, your Indiana Senior U All Star Team, Like, what's that for people who don't know what that's like? What's that like? As an honor? And then how do you who do you

play against? But it's it's like the culmination of your high school career is that you know you got the you get Mr Basketball's name, and then you get normally have twelve Indiana All Stars, UM, and you know it's a huge It's just a huge deal in Indiana to finish your high school career. And in Indiana all started to be able to say you were an Indiana All Star. And back when I was in it, it was a two week deal. Like you you met up, you practiced

four a week, you had a little exhibition game. You would play the Kentucky All Star Team, UM, and we played them in Lexington on UK's campus. And then you would have another week of practice and then you would come to Indianapolis and we played him, and then you would play the Kentucky All Star team again, UM, and

we played him in Market Square Arena. It was just it was a huge series, a lot of pride between both states and UM, he was just a great honor and I think it's something that you know, I still remember. I'm sure anybody that's been a part of that, that experience is something that they remember. And the ones that got maybe shinned a little bit. I think it's some

of that sticks sticks with them for some time. Um. You know that they they hold on too, you know, and you just like the young guy at Belmont, at Dylan Windler that just got you know, it was the first round draft pick. He did not make the indian All Star Team. And I just read an article the other day about about the mistake that was made on him. So and I think it's something that he used his motivation as he got into college to prove some people wrong.

So it's just unbelievable on it. Um, you know, to grow up in the state where basketball means so much and then to be recognized, UM, at the end of your career as an Indie All Starting to get to compete and represent your state against Kentucky. Um. Some of it is some of it is hindsight though, right, Like some times guys become better players. Like that's one of the things we do a bad job in the media of. Like I don't know what Dylan win To looked like

when he was a high school senior. But some guys just get They just get better, and some guys don't get. Some guys top out, or some guys go mental, or some guys discover girls or you know, women when they get to college. You know. Um, So early hyph doesn't help these kids. The early high you know, almost hinders some of these kids. Like when I was when I was an assistant coach at Brother we would tell the

Gordon Hayward story all the time. Like at the end of Gordon Hayward's junior year of high school, he wasn't considered one of the top twenty players in the in his grade in Indiana, and three years later he's the eighth pick in the world. Like, I mean, how do you you know? But he wanted physically matured, um, and he just he worked on his game. He developed, he was in the he was in the right situation where

he experienced some success. He was in the right situation where he was able to play uh and contribute right away, and then you know, things just snball and he became an eighth pick in the draft, and means it's an unbelievable story that in three years you're not even top twenty in your own state, in your own age group, and three years later, you you know, you're you're a

lottery pick. Um, you know. So, I think a lot of that early hype sometimes can can hurt kids, and then you know other kids, like people develop a different times and they just can continue to work and work at Fonso McKinney's, you know, with the with the Warriors, everybody likes to talk about offs and McKinney. I was on the staff at Eastern Illinois when we recruited. I was one of the coaches that was part of the staff that didn't He wasn't even in our top eight

or nine his freshman year at Eastern Illinois. You know, we we knew we had this kid that had unbelievable athleticism. He was an unbelievable kid. You're trying to figure out ways the plame and and Um you know, now he's contributing on a team that went all the way to the NBA Finals. So everybody's got their unique story. I loved reading about those, um but like what you said, people develop at different times and mature a different times, and some people work and some people sit back and

and think about how good they are. Totally no. I mean I I used that with my my own son, where he wasn't an All Star in baseball last year and this year he is, and you know, and he even has some ups and downs, and I was like, look, dude, you gotta you gotta look at how much you've improved, you know. And last year I would play him up in a you not a high level of you, but like I basically couldn't let him handle the ball because he lose it so much. One because he just coming

from Connecticut to California's such a big jump. And then he's playing against older kids and he just didn't have it. So now he's able to, you know, bring the ball up against older competition and do a decent job, you know, and then when he plays against his own age roup, he's pretty good, and you know, it's it's but it's hard because You don't want to kill a kid's confidence.

But the other hand, you want to teach them that it's it's not about how good yards about how much better you have gotten since yesterday, how much better you can get kind of tomorrow. All Right, you show up at India. This is nineteen nineties six, right, Um, I think you only have like I remember that team, you only had one senior, right, wasn't Harris Mazinevitch? The only like senior you have in that team? Is a really young team for a for a Bob Night team, wasn't it. Yeah?

We had we had a group of juniors and a group of freshmens that, um, you know, I think we're heavily relied on and um, you know at that time, you know that the junior class was very highly regarded. Um, you know with Andre Patterson and Neil Reid and Charlie Miller. Um, you know, Jason Collier was in Jason Collier was in our class who was a McDonald Lall American, Um, A j Guyden was very under recruited but ended up being the best player. I mean you know that as a

senior was the first team All American. But um, we started three freshman and two juniors our first game that year against Connecticut and in the Hoosier Dolman from a thirty five thousand. So um, it was you know, from me going up in Indiana and watching that and being being able to be a part of that and obviously getting a uh getting the start in your first collegian

game was what's pretty exciting for me? What's that like to to run out you got candy stripe pants on a white Indiana jersey, like like, honestly, I mean, do you what is that feeling like to be in the locker room and to see your number candy stripe pants and realize and you're running out at the Who's your

Dome against Yukon. Yeah, I mean it's it's one of the really cool experiences, you know, of my life because you you grow up, you know, it's it's like, you know what what you w envision growing up out here? You know, you you envision growing up out here and then running out in Pauli in the U c l A uniform like it's the same thing just where I grew up. Um, but yeah, it was. It was an unbelievable experience in the Union at that time. Recruiting was

much different if you had an opportunity. If you're in Indiana and you had an opportunity to play it on you, that's where you're going. And it always really UM no other options, you know, like they had first rider refusal, you know, much like I think U. C l A. UM has had out here for for a number of years and something that that we need to get back to UM now that that we're out here and UM,

it's it's just kind of where you grew up. That's what you saw, is what you were used to UM, and so obviously it was a man a lot to me to put put the uniform on and represent UM Indiana. That's joke, man, That's that's really really cool. UM. What was did? Did did coach and I do at home? Visit? No? Man, My my recruitings, I might have been one of the easiest recruits of all time. Like I started getting recruited

by them my sophomore year of high school. And when I stay recruited, they invited myself and my dad, my high school coach, to a game UM, and we went up to a game UM. And then my junior year UM, I kind of had like I lived an hour and a half away from from Bloomington. So I kind of could come up anytime I wanted, any any game I wanted, And it got to a point, you know, I would I would take a buddy, or you know, I take a girlfriend or you know, sometimes my dad would go

with me. And they were playing Minnesota late late in the year and back from Minnesota the Shawn Leonard and I was, uh until called up and told him I was coming to the game, and uh, you know, Coach Dock he was like, hey, why don't you bring your

mom and dad up? You know, So mom and dad came with me on this trip and and uh they got beat by Minnesota, which did not happen, you know, I mean, Indiana didn't lose in Thesembly hall very often and during that time period, and and uh so we were just gonna go home, like we know how things you know, could get after a lawsuit, and we're gonna go home, and and Dock he came out and said, no, no, coach wants to talk to you. Why don't you guys

stick around? And so I remember sitting down in what they called the players lounge, and there was no there

was no lounge part of it. It was just kind of a room with the TV and three chairs, and we sat in there for what seemed like an hour, and and Coach and I finally walked in with his long time media buddy bought him on and the dock he was there, and Coach had a sweater off, and his collar was half up on one side and down on the other and here all disheveled, you know, And he sat down and uh, he said, Mike, I'm going hunting tomorrow. Do you know anywhere I can shoot birds

down and around Jasper? And I'm sixteen years old, Doug, Like, I don't. I've never been hunting in my life. Like I had no idea, I said, you know, so I kind of like Coach, I don't know. You know, I got some buddies that do some hunting. I can probably help you out, but I really don't. I wouldn't know where to tell you to go. And he kind of took a deep breath and he said, you want to

play ball here? And I said yeah. And he stood up and he shook my mom and dad's hand, shook my hand, put his hand on my shoulder and said, all right, boy, I see you later. I walked out and that was that was my dad. That was my commendment story. We were my mom and dad. We walked all the way out to the car, and uh, we get to the car and my dad started up and before we take off, like nobody has said a word

up until that point, He's like, what just happened? I said, I think I'm going to Indiana and and uh that was it late in my junior year of high school and and um, you know, so that was I don't think I was really heavily recruited by them, but it worked out for everybody in the end, So that was my recruiting. So I think that probably one of the easiest one, you know, he did get. He did get

Brian Evans on the phone. Call um, and I said, yeah, you wanted kind of hit him with the same thing, you won't play a ball here, and and Brian said, I'd like to talk to my mom and dad, and I think I think coach said I'll call you back in thirty minutes. So I call him back in thirty minutes. It was done, and Brian Evans was an NBA player and Big Ten Player of the Year. So that's just how it was. Back there. It was. It was a

different time that recruiting services were now. Um, you know, the TV was different, social media wasn't it wasn't around,

and so I think recruiting was much more regionalized. All right, I'll tell you my U c l A story now, So because there are u c l A people that think I still like have it in for U c l A. So, uh, my, my my dad had U c l A season tickets since really I think not Farmers when Walt Hazard was there, and so we would go and what he would do is he would you know, either giveaway or sell a lot of the kind of average games. And then we always go to the Arizona game.

They played Duke one year when there was both their top ten teams. Was unbelievable atmosphere. Um, and we would go and and you know, if they played Oregon State was good back then Arizona State, we go to it. You know, we go to a couple of weekend games, a couple week night games, and um, as I kind of got and then Herrick took over and and my dad was pretty close with Herrick, and he coached in a in a select kind of all star game against

the Russians. He coached Mitchell Butler and Tracy Murray part of an unbelievable recruiting class that went there, and so they never And then my sister was a cheerleader there and she's uh was she's ninety, she's like five years older than me really, so I was always there, Like I didn't go to practice uh much every once in a while, but you know, it's like forty five. It's our from my house, but I go to some games and the way it's kind of same thing with like

unofficial visits. So it might have been because we had season tickets. It was likely because I wasn't that good, right, like I was a because I stayed back. I was like a late bloomer. And most of the guys I grew up playing with were a class of ninety four, which is an awesome class in the state of California. That's Toby Bailey, Jarah Henderson, Miles Simon, Gilanni Gardner, Kristin Johnson, a bunch of dudes. Um. So I remember like they

weren't they didn't offer me. And the summer before when I was rising junior, the first day of summer is when they came out with like initial offers back then. So they offered Toby Bailey first day of summer. He took the scholarship. And the way it worked then was we had there was there was like three different big AU programs. A r C Mid Valley that was like Cameron Murray played on that team that was like mostly

kids from the valley and surrounding areas. There was Slamming Jam Victoria Park that was Ricky Price and Toby Bailey and later Tremaine Folks who went to Cal then President State. And then there's our team which was you know team Orange County, and we had Jared Harrison from Bakersfield. We had Adam Walton that's that's uh Bill's oldest son. And then we had a bunch of Orange County kids as well.

It's a couple of l A kids that were like under the radar, and so there was kind of a rivalry there, right, So like like we didn't like, we didn't like Toby then, you know, as it was, it was weird, like you know, in every tournament, in the semifinals and finals of every tournament, it's the same guys you're playing against. And this is since like sixth grade,

like No, I didn't fucking like Toby Bailey. I didn't like, you know, the the Obannon boys who were there, like we those are We wanted to beat them, like now we're supposed to play in the same team, like so weird.

So Miles got pissed and and then you know, he ends up going to Arizona and so and I kind of wanted, like, you know, like basketball U c l A Basketball on TV is big, but there was times, you know, it's locally just got swallowed up by the Lakers and other off and I don't know, the facilities weren't great back then, and so I kind of was I had a want. I always want to play a

duke um. So I went to a game during my junior year against cal As u c l A. Cow and all these other guys that were seniors that had committed to going there. We're there. So j R. Henderson is my teammate, and Kristin Johnson's my teammate. Like we go to the game together. We meet up at the game and my seats are so fucking high that the concession man won't go up there, Like, you know, I want to be a big baller and go to the player, you know, get the player tickets, even though we had

season tickets. And I like told my dad, like, don't worry about it. I got there. The teams leaving me tickets, so they like so they like scramble and they get me seats next to the rest of the guys. I was like, what the funk, I'm way up. This is bullshit. So now I'm sitting with these guys and then they send some manager out at halftime to listen to Herrick's halftime speech and they don't get me. And I mean it was like the and my sisters like performing at

the half or whatever, and uh. I was like, okay, I guess I know where I stand there, you know. So then pass forward to summer of my That next summer, some of my senior I'm at that I'm at the Las Vegas Hilton and Jim Harrick calls me. He's like, Dougie, you know you always wanted to be a Ruin and I was like, and I was kind of a dick.

Then I said not then, let against now, and I was like, well, coach and all honestly, I always wanted to play a duke, but they took Wojo last year they took Wojo so and Wojo is a year ahead of me, and so he said, well, we're offering you a scholarship to u c l are like, you won't play ball for us, And it was kind of same sort of question, you know, and I'm sure he thought this is a layup kid grew up dreaming of playing at u c l A. And I was like, well, you know, I want to take a visit. I want

to think about it. I want to see what else is, you know, I mean, I love how you guys play. And they had taken a commitment from a game name illusing me man who was like six four or six five your class, like best player in America type kid. And he was like, you know, he'll never qualify. He's not a really u c l A guy, but he's so talented. We gotta take and we take five. We played five guys, five best players U c l A high post offense, not the only offense, just the best.

So there was so I was so bitter over not being recruited whatever, And you know, they wrote me Mark Godford did a great job and Lorenzo Romar did a great job, and they called me I'll never forget. So I take an unofficial up there, and it was still kind of weird because again, like Toby was a freshman there, and um, uh yeah, I'd like I barely knew tayased and he was a senior on that team. Ed was there, was a senior, Charles was there, and I just I don't know. I just I didn't get a great vibe.

And so I was like, so I call coach Herrick and tell him I'm going to Notre Dame and Godfrey calls me. He goes, I'm gonna promise you something. Now we play. We play all like December twenty two of not Only were gonna come in and whoop your ass. He's like, but it's gonna be so fucking cold that

you're gonna beg us to come back. And I was like, he goes, he goes, but you know, we love you, and my sister had been his babysit or whatever, so uh yeah, I mean and then my when I when I left Notre Dame, um, they recruited me, but they're like, look, we're gonna take Baron if we can get Barren, and if we don't get Barren, right, So so I'm not bitter over that one, because I mean, if you take me ahead of Baron Davis, you're the worst evaluator of town,

you know, all of sports. But I mean, honestly, the first time around, it was my choice. And they took a dude named Brandon Lloyd, who was who should have gone to Oaklhom State from Oklahoma. They didn't get staff. They thought they were gonna get staff, and if I was probably their fallback, like, well we'll get Gottlieb and I went to Notre Dame, and so they took Brandon Lloyd, who never really panned out at u c l A. Anyway, that's my U c l A story, all right, So

let's get to let's get to eu UM. I looked it up, and you guys started out thirteen and one, right, like your only loss was to Kentucky. You guys beat Notre Dame, you guys beat Duke Um, you guys beat Princeton. Was good. Back then. You talked about the Yukon game. You'd beat Yukon, like you guys were rolling. What was it like, You're like a freshman that you had to

be like this is easy, this is cake. When you get that it's like when you get all that hype as a young player, like then you know you've you've got to be able to stay stay in the moment and try to get better and better. But um, you know, it's like like any major program when you're when you're winning at a high level at a place like Indiana, and when you're winning at a high level, uh you know, the place like U C. L A. Or Caroline or Duke or Kentucky Like, um, it's everything that you imagine.

You know, it can be like you're you're walking on water. Um, everywhere you're going. You walk in a restaurant, you know, people are standing up and clapping and wishing you well and and all those sorts of things, and um, you know it's it's that's what I think is so cool about the college basketball experience. Like, um, you know, I I tell kids in recruiting all the time, like I

absolutely loved my experience at Indiana. Now every day it wasn't teddy bears and rainbows, you know, but it's it's not it doesn't matter where you go, it's not going to be um, but my experience prepared me for for what I'm doing now. And I want the guys that that I get the opportunity to coach and be around. I want them to feel about their experience the way that I feel about mine. I think if they do that, um, you know, then then my job as a coach has

been successful. And I love my my time at Indiana part of you know, Indiana basketball is a major part of who I am, down to my core, um, and I loved it. I would do it again in the art beating. And that's that's I understand the way that I feel doug about about my time And that's what you know, That's what I want these guys here at u c l A to feel about U c l A and their experience here when when their time here

is done. That sold. I want the guys that I coached at Butler to feel about Butler you know now that that that they're away and there's nothing cooler about,

you know, being a coach. And then you know, getting phone calls, um from former players asking for help for jobs, called from former players invite you to their weddings, or calling you you know and talk to that hey coach on you know, my wife's due to have a baby boy here in three months you know those are those are the really cool experience and that's that's the experience that I had where I played, and that's what I

want for these guys that I come in contact with. Yeah, it's it's um, it's it's really and we I'll tell you the thing about social media, and you don't have to agree with you you can you feel free to discuss it. But I do think that we whether it's expectations and I got to be cautious of this with my own kid, you know, expectations or uh, you know, coaches are always the bad guys and see he is always the bad guess whatever it is, like, I don't know.

I still think it's a very high percentage, but I don't know if it's nearly as higher percentage of people that get it. Like, look, everybody takes the floor. It's like real dudes like me, like real thoughtful, reasonable people.

You take a basketball floor, and you can pick out which guys could really play in the NBA Like you and I probably thought, like, you know what if we got the right situation where somebody needs our skill set, somebody enjoys our leadership, you know, you put me in the right spot, like Yeah, why couldn't I be the

third point guard in the NBA. It's like no doubt, Like I know what I could do, but you just you gotta be You gotta get one team, one guy at one team that believes in you, that gives you the right opportunity, the right amount of minutes in the summer league, signs you to a guarantee. You hang on for a year, and then you kind of become an NBA player. But but you know, most most of us look around and like you can tell who's the fucking

pro and who's not. Right, Um, there's this sense where if you're not gonna make it as an NBA player at your current school, goes somewhere else, And so there's not I think as higher percentage of people that truly understand and in enjoy the experience. During the experience, am I am I making sense? Like like that's what you created, Like, oh, you're not playing well, fucking go the coach is never gonna play you. They can recruit over. You leave, go

to another school. And part of the part of the amazing part about college basketball, this guy comes in and you and I got to start as freshman. So this is different but a lot of guys that come in and they don't get the role they want and they leave, Whereas it's way better if you earn the role you want at the place you originally enrolled in. Mm hmm.

It's no, you're you're you're dead on. Like I'd tell people all the time, like like college, like and and you've got to have good adults around the young person. But when you're talking to a recruit, like they're so self absorbed in what they're doing, Um, they all want to go the n B A and and a lot of them, you know, when you're at a place like U c A, a lot of them you know that may be in their future. Um. But but you also got to look at college. It's it's it's not a

three or four year decision. This when when you're choosing the university, it's a thirty or forty year decision in it. And it I believe that if whether you're at U c l A for one or two years and you're able to go to the NBA, or if you're here for four years, because you're always going to fall back on that time period in your life and you're going to go back to those people to help you with whatever's next after basketball is over. So that's why I

say it's a third y or forty year decision. And I think that's why, Um, I'm so lucky to be at a place like u c. L A. Because not only does it have the basketball tradition and and all the great players and the coaches and and everything that comes with it, but are you also sitting on this campus with all the unbelievable people that are associated with this university and all the alumni are so I mean, that's that's those guys, those guys, and those guys are

super tight, like even the ones you know, the Harrick guys, the ones that played for laugh Like, they still get together. I mean, look, you got Bob Myer's the GM of the freaking Warriors, right, there's a connection. You've got people in you know, Hollywood types. It's it's really interesting how but we have such a narrow site of what college well represents. Like if you go to social media, you

ask people who cover the game. In my position, college basketball is only there is a way station for the pros. Like that's not it, dude, You get it's the people you're around are gonna be the powers in business. Wherever you go to, schools have a bigger reach like you go to Indiana. Like when you got done playing Indiana, if you didn't want to become a basketball coach, you could have gone into sales anywhere you wanted in the

state because you were point guarded. I you M all right, so and that that's that's what it gets overlooked, and that's that's what we gotta That's what we gotta get back to. That's why I'm excited to be at at a place like this because everything it has to offer, not just from a basketball standpoint, but just like anything you want to accomplish, you can get done here because the people that haven't been here or are currently here,

you know. And I think that's a special opportunity. Um, Okay, tell me about Ben Howett never talked to me when I was a player. I mean, I wouldn't go to nothing it recruited like she never talked to me as a player. Okay. I've competed against his teams twice when I was at Nebraska, Okay, and got nothing more than the handshake. On the handshake client, I'm at the NBA Top D Camp two weeks ago, and I got U c l l U c l A on my chest and we chatted it up for five minutes with his

staff and my staff. You know, just because I got U c l A on my chest, I mean I've been around the guy, competed against the guy, and I was just a dude, right, But now I got U c U c l A on my chest, and now you know, it's like what you said, the connection to the part of the family these guys are tightened, and it was really cool to be able to talk with him for a few moments a couple of weeks ago. Um, okay, so take me to the You are famous for a

lot of things. You're probably most famous for the guy who stared down coach night, right. It was? It was what year was It was Super Tuesday and you're playing Michigan and you I've remember, I've seen the play multiple times where somebody from Michigan drives to the basket and you're you should be to help man to take the charge. Instead you're like fronting in the low post and a guy drives right up your butt and lays the ball in. Okay, So was that was that one of the was that

one of the five boys. Was that like Dane five who drove up your like I'm trying to trying to think years, No, it was all. His first name was Robbie I forget his last night. Robbie Reid. Yeah, Robbie Read. I believe Robbie Read. His dad was the coach at b y U. So Robbie Reid drives up and you're and you don't see the ball, and and coach Knight lays into you. Give me, what what year is this? What year are you in school? I'm a sophomore. I'm

a sophomore. Um, we're like you said, we're playing Michigan, and you know I was, I was out of position by our defensive rules. But you know we had you know, we had walked through the day before and I mean Liston was really good. I mean they had you know, Robbie, they had Michiel Baston tractor trailer, UM Maurice Taylor, UM Louis Bulllock. I mean they were good now and was expensive, expensive team right there. They I believe I believe they were over the over the cap for that was not

a cap friendly team. That's that's really what happened. They weren't put on n C approbation. They were over the cap. So that's that's right, Gerard Ward. Hold on, I'll tell you real quick. Gerard Ward was on that team. This is the famous grod Ward story. Okay, Groard Ward visits u c l A. He's like the number one wing in the country and uh he visits u c l A, and, um, the Obandon guy boys are like the nicest dude, classiest dudes ever. So Charles O'Bannon um chose him around campus.

And this is back when u c l A, which just was picking dudes right, and so Gerard Ward uh would would tell people that he's I'm going to be better than Michael Jordan like and he believed it coming out dead unbelieved it. So um so drod word. He gets done with his visit u c l A and he's like, tells Charles e Van. You could ask Charles when he comes to ones events, Hey man, uh man, thanks for being so nice to me. I don't know why you were. I'm gonna come and take your job

so whatever. Like that was like his last words to the u c l A players, like, thanks for being nice to me, but I was gonna come take your job. And that team was that was. That was after they fired the staff, right because they got caught cheating, but it was they still mean lou Bullock, Robert Trailer, growd Ward, Maceo Baston, Robbie Reid, uh, Brandon Smith, the transferred played for my brother. Um. That was that was. That was an expensive team. Okay, so Robbie Reid drives up your backside.

You're not in health. Oh I'm not in health. But we and walked through they you know, they're running America's player, you know, the cross screen down down. Yeah, so they're you know, Louis Bullocks and a cross screen on the baseline for tractor trailer and then he's getting a dawn

screen um from Maurice, you know. And so you know when walks through, I just kind of bumped the cutter and and Chase whoever was mimicking Louis Bulock up the middle, you know, to make sure I'm there when he catches for the three, and uh, you know, Coach explains to me that tractor trailers like two seventy pounds and he's gonna knock me across, you know, into the bleachers if I don't you know, really chuck even, you know, and

then just chase, like hell up to the top. Make sure you're there on the catch, you know, for Louis. And so the play comes. I'm sniffing it out. So I turned my back and I mean, back then you could you could really physically bumped Cutters Like now you can't really do it. And so I to two forms in the tractor's chest. I'm trying to bump him, and then I'm just gonna take off run as well. Robbie beats Uh, I forget you. I don't even know who was garden. Robbie just beats him, and he's laying it

up right over right over my shoulder. And so Coach gets up and informs me that I was in the wrong defensive position. And um, I said, excuse me. We see we see the street, we see it on TV. Noble, what was what do you really say? Uh, I'm not sure. I think We've probably exchanged a few pleasant tries and and we moved on. You know the thing about the whole of Mint dougas like that happened. It was captured on TV because it was Coach. It it became a

huge story. Um, we go down the other end, there was a a whistle, So we come out to a TV time out and that's you know, when what what you're talking about happens. Um, And I said out. He takes me out for about a minute and a half. UM. He talked to me very calmly on the bench, and then I went on and played, and then I never

really talked about it again. Uh. And And honestly, from that point on, I think, um, at least from my my standpoint, our player coach relationship grew immensely um for over the next two and a half years, UM, because and I don't know if it was that or if he just felt, like, you know, he had somebody that he could he could trust and believe to help try to lead the team the way that he wanted it done.

And I don't know, but from that point on, our relationship was wasn't unbelievable over the next two and a half years in my my career. But UM, you know, it's a it's a it's a thing that happens unfortunately in a in the heat of a moment with with some competitive guys. We've all we've all seen it. It would have been better if it would have been at half time and behind closed doors. Yeah, but it it happened when it happened, and him and I never talked

about it again. You were his last point card, right because because we were getting ready to play you guys, We were getting ready to play you guys, get by Pepperdine. Yeah, well, you're bringing up all the great memories. No, I'm I'm well, I mean okay, so so I'll we'll get it. Then we'll do that best memory of playing it. I you, I just I mean, I I don't know. I can't

name one. I think, just like I said, the way that I feel about my like sitting here today in my office at U c l A looking back and the feeling that I have when I think about my experience in those four years, that's the best memory, um, And and what the position that it put me in to be sitting here today. Um, The people that I interacted with, the people that I was able to meet and make connections with, and just like the overall foundation to do what I'm doing now is is the number

one memory? Um? You were at the Neil Read practice though, right? That was was that your freshman year? That's my freshman year. Yeah, do you do. You don't like at the time that it happened, do you remember it being as big because

the video didn't come out til years later? Right, Yeah, yeah, when the time that happened, Like, I don't remember it, um, you know, being you know, something just crazy, like oh my god, you know, like um and the tape you know, came out going into mun state tournament my senior year,

so almost three and a half years later. Um, you know that, like I touched on earlier, when you're play, you're you're sol you're so self absorbed, um about how you're playing, Um, whether or not coaches on you or um, you know, how things are going, you know on campus, or how your girlfriend's doing or you know, you're you're just so worried about you that you know, if it didn't directly involve you, sometimes you just don't. You don't

pay me that much attention to it. And unfortunately, when you're when you're in those things and you're you're practicing a hundred times a year and you go through the course of your career and you've got four D plus practices plus all your weight sessions and your workout. Um, you know, if it didn't really directly involve you. I'm not sure much how much of an inprint it it made on you. One thing that that coach Night taught you that you still use to this death. Do your job.

Just do your job, like, don't worry about anything else. Um, you know, do your job. And that was one of the things that he left me with when I was a senior, when you called me in about three quarters away through my senior year and I told him I wanted to coach, you know one day, and uh, he said, just do your job. He said, don't worry about um.

Don't don't go into any opportunity and think it's beneath you. Uh. If your first job is to sweep the floor and then be the best, you know, floor sweeper in the country, and it's gonna lead to your next opportunity, and so on and so forth. And he's never been more more righting on anything he's ever said. Like I've tried to get jobs, Like I've reached out to people and tried to get jobs throughout my career and I've never gotten

any of them. Every job I've I've ever gotten, um, you know, kind of kind of they came to me or you know, through some kind of mutual person that you know, brought my name up. But I've never gotten a job that I went after. The jobs that i've I've always gotten its kind of come fum my way. And and uh, I think that has happened because of the just doing my job, whatever it is. Just try to do your job and the best of your ability, and if you do it well enough, and then your

next opportunity is gonna come your way. You get them playing And we played against each other in the usb L. Rick Barry was your coach. What was he like? Obviously he's one of the greatest players to ever played the game. Um, you know he was, I think, Um, you know, Rick Rick was an interesting character because, like I was, I

was all fired up to play for Rick. Obviously it's one of the great coaches and um, you know, but when you're dealing with with guys in the U s BL like, sometimes things don't come as easily to us as it did, you know, to him, And and I think he would get frustrated with that at times. But um, it was a great experience. I mean, obviously, you know it was different than anything I was used do you

I was going from Indiana. We were flying on private planes and staying in in great hotels and now you're on the six am flight, um back in the economy and you're staying at a motel six or something and UM, you know, so it's just an overall different experience for me and UM, but it was. It's just part of your story, you know that you you you stacked those experiences and those stories on top of each other, and I kind of make sure who you who you are, and UM, it was a fun time. I'd never Um.

It was the first time I ever came off a ball screen. Like, we didn't run ball streams in Indiana. We ran up motion offense coach with hated ball screens, and um, so it was different for me, you know, being a point guard and trying to learn how to play off a ball screens and make all the region and U you know, I do know. There was first places to wake up in four Mier, Florida at that time. Yeah, it was nice. It was nice down there. We actually stayed there was some Oklahoma STI this is one of

those things that like guys should know. So we're playing for the Oaklhomas, Oklahoma Storm and Enid, Oklahoma, and we had like five Oklahoma stake guys. And our announcer was getting Robert down, who's like has a radio show in Stillwater and he hooks us up there some Oklahoma state alone has got a condo in Santa on Santa bell Island, And so we came down. We played the team in Sara Sota uh Roy Jones team, then we played you guys.

Then we played you guys on back to back nights, and then we played Broy Jones team, and then we left. It was like four games. We might have had one day off. Anyway, we stayed in Santa Belle Island. We were like, this is unbelievable. This is so great. Um, who is the who is the best Who's the best player on your team that year? By the way, I'm looking at you your playing cards, a buil, Do you have any of your playing cards? I have one of your playing cards here. I'm not sure I even I

didn't know I had one. I didn't know I had one. You know, the best the best experience about the Florida Sea Dragons was um, you know, talking about connections of where you where you were. Um, there was a a guy named Hute Tindler who just passed away this past year. Um was a longtime coach down in that area at at a smaller college. Uh. And he had a beach house and he had like he had like three bedrooms up top, and he had converted like the basement lower

level floor in the two one bedroom apartments. And we were staying at like a courtyard. You know. The whole team was just you know, you're in a courtyard. You got a roommate, you know. And uh, he he offered me to come stay out at his his beach house in one of the apartments UM down below where he stayed. Um and gave me an old beat up red truck

that he had that he wasn't used. So instead of having to drive in the in the minivans from the courtyard to do everything with everybody else, I actually got my own place out out of four Myers Beach and it was it was a great, great experience. But I couldn't I couldn't tell you who I didn't know. I had a player's card, Doug, I'm not sure who our best player was. You don't remember any team like, dude, We I had it. We had a squad we had

I renewable. He played in the NBA, had a squad, a bunch of guys you knew, Like I went down and played with a bunch of guys that that I didn't know. Um and I mean I we got robbed one night down there. So I've tried to block out a lot of those memories from out there. Well you got robs. Oh we we went to uh we went to a nightclub and we were flying out the next

morning for some some trip over some road trip. And um, I think we had just gotten our page X and and uh so we went to a there was a concert at this nightclub, and we all went to this nightclub and we left. We left early, a little bit before the concert was over. And uh yeah, we got we got jumped in the parking lot and uh there we two shots were fired through the front windshield of a of an Astral mini van and we had to turn that in the next morning as we're going to

hit the airport. So there's nothing like turning in a mini vandom to rick Berry with two bullet holes through the front windshield. Let even know that everybody's okay. So it was a great experience. I have no I had no idea like we had. I mean, we had Willie Burton, we had whose ninth pick of the draft. I mentioned I renewable um. We had. We had a good and then we had the Oaklahoma state guys as well. We had my dad told me, and I think I might have said this in the pod. My dad told me.

I remember we were doing training camp and we had Bubble Wells and lead the country and scoring use the second round pick of the Mavericks. I remember my dad said like, hey, there's always a reason. And I go, He's like, there's always a reason these guys are in the NBA. And he's like, he's like, you know, like with you, it's like you mentally you're shooting. It's like but sometimes if somebody eats their way out of the NBA, some people, you know, it's it's women, it's drugs, it's

you know, they're gambling. It's like something. And I swear to god, we had every we had a guy that checked. We had somebody checked one of those boxes. I'll throughout we're like, we're like, damn, why is that guy not playing still playing playing in the NBA? And then you hang around him for a week and you're like, oh, oh he's on drugs, no doubt, of course. Uh okay, so then you play then you played over what did you play overseas? I went to UM, I went over

to Belgium. Um, and I was in uh what was it to Liam Belgium? Some that was I was there. I'm trying to think. I've been a few places. I guess I got a lot of things going on right I'm trying to get a house in my family. We've got some things going on out here right now. Done. But um in the age, I was in the Age Belgium, and we went out there and had a you know, I had a contract. I felt like it was decent, and we we played one game. Go through training camp,

we play game. I got eighteen, um, and you always compare yourself to the American on the other team, right, So the American I guarded on the other team, he had thirteen. They beat us on the last second shot. I get called in the next morning and I'm sitting around this this conference table and in this office, and um,

the coaches in there. Uh, the president that I had been introduced to was in there, and then some other guy who I don't know who he was, UM there and there and they're speaking French and then they were speaking English to me, and then they speak French and then he wished to me, and I was like, this is not gonna go well, like you just tell right, And so they informed me that they were releasing me.

UM that day after one game and they they had UM informed me that they had signed another point guard and come to find out, it was Michael Huger, who is now the head coach at Bowling Green. And Michael had been like the he had been like m v P or first team All League UM in the in that league the year before UH and had had some problems with his physical with his team. My team was

kind of new to the top division. UM, so they cut me and signed Michael Huger, and I was I was out outro and I just remember I landed UM and about two or three days later, UM, all this September eleven, stuff happened and I was out out of that. You know what, Like, I know what I want to do. I'm not a pro. I'm not gonna play in the NBA. It would have been a great experience. I know what

I want to do. UM, And so I reached out to coach Nidi was in the source of year in Texas Tech, and he said, hey, you come down here next year and be a grad assistant, you know, And so I think for a year, I went wide, started as a text tech as a grad assistant. I was a grad assistant two years at Texas Tech, and then I, uh, my first Division one job was Stephen F. Austin. Yeah,

full time assistant Stephen F. Auston, huge, huge money. I told my wife, I said, hey, you know, the hardest thing in coaching is getting that first opportunity to get on the road and recruit. Everybody wants recruiting the experience, and as a young guy, you're like, you know, listen, like I can develop relationships. I just need an opportunity, you know. And and uh, finally I was giving an opportunity to get on the road. And I remember going back to my wife and telling, hey, you know, I

got the job full time. Do you want assistant twelve thousand, five hundred and a FOURD tours you know, and and but but we made it. Then, we've made the big time. We're finally in, you know. And and sometimes that's what it takes me. He just need an opportunity and and uh, I've been very fortunate ever since. Um, when you were at Tech, was Beard on the staff then? Yeah, Chris was. Chris was an assistant coach. Chris was actually, um, kind of the the guy that helped me get um the

job as Stephen F. Austin. He had worked for Danny Casper as an assistant when he first got it got started, and Danny had reached out to Chris about um, you know, meaning the young guy to fill a spot, you know, in August. And and so Chris, uh gave me my name and and Danny reached out and where he went from there. So you know, Chris is kind of really the guy that got that ball rolling for me. Did you did you have any idea he would be this

kind of coach? No? I did. I mean it's it's hard to like everybody like, oh yeah, I can see it, like you know, I didn't. I mean they I thought, you know, when I was at Tech, I thought they had a really good staff. Um. You know, a guy named Bob Buyer was on the staff, who who's now an assistant in the NBA. Pat Knight was on the staff. Uh, and then Chris beer, you know, and those were the guys that were were coaches assistance during my time there.

So it was a great learning experience obviously, you know, being around coach on the other side, uh, and seeing how he attacked each day, how he prepared for practice and games, and just kind of how he managed the office and went about running a college basketball program. Um that you didn't see as a player. To see it on the other side on the people to be in

those meetings was was great. And then obviously to be around those three three individuals and and uh, you know, be able to pick their brain every day was really good. You were were you were at Eastern before you went to Butler, right, Yes, I was at Eastern Illinois for six years with Mike Miller, who who I think he has been the head coach of the New York Knicks um G League team for several years. And I believe, uh, if I if I heard correctly, um may just got

moved up to the bench on in the NBA. So so congrats him a great a really good basketball coach Eastern Nolinois. Just very difficult job. Okay, So how did how did it come about that you come about that you got the butler. So I actually took a job with Porter Moser at Loola. When he got the job at Chicago, he was looking for a a young guy that could recruit UM in the Midwest and in Indiana and and uh, my name was given to him and he reached out. I took the job. I was actually

in Chicago for about two and a half weeks. Uh and Porter. I get a phone call from Porter Um and I was I was actually back in Charleston to see my wife who was getting ready to deliver our second daughter. And Porter goes, hey, Brad Stevens just called me, Um and wants to talk to you about a job. What are you gonna do? And I was like, what are you? What are you talking about? And Um, you know Brad and typical Brad fashion. He called Porter first UM and asked Porter, you know, if you could talk

to me about a job near the time, he wasn't great. UM, and I give I give you know, Porter a ton of credit because Brad said, hey, listen, Mike doesn't know about this. Um, you don't have to worry about him getting upset. You know, this is just you and me. Nobody else knows about it. UM And Porter, just taking the job and trying to get get that program rolling. And I've always been dead at the Porter because he gave me the opportunity to talk to Brad about the

job and and UM, you know you can't. You got an opportunity to work for Brad Stevens coming off the two final fours A Butler, Um, you know you take it. It's kind of like you know when Mick reached out to me here, like you don't tell U c l A now you know. And and so that's how I got to Butler. I was there for five years, two of them with Brad Um and then before he went to Boston, and then Brandon Miller for a year. The

last two years were under Chris Holtman. Um, if you could, m okay, So I asked you about about Coach Night, all right, the same question kind of about Brad, like what is it Brad? Brad is just one. I think he's very comfortable with who he is. UM. He he is uber, uber intelligent. UM. And he's ultimately prepared, overly prepared for every situation like you're you're not ever gonna catch him, um, not prepared. And I think he's very efficient in um, how he works and how he prepares,

how he runs a practice. UM. And I tell people, I've told people this before, and they look at me like kind of really really strange. UM, Like what Bob Knight and what Brad Stevens want from their players or want from their program, the type of people that they want, UM their program to stand for, are exactly the same. Now how each one of those individuals go about achieving that our opposite ends of the spectrum, and both worked for each individual. But you know, it's like it's like

even elite company. Now you look you look at especially sports, you look at the Patriots, so you look at you know, what the Warriors have done, like like the main components of those things are all the same. Now that how they go about getting them. Sometimes they do it their own personal way, which you have to do. You gotta be who you are, UM. But those guys were very similar in what they wanted. They just go about it in different ways. And they they both have achieved a

ton of success. Your second year there, you guys got to I'm gonna say the sweet sixteen? Is that right? Right? Or did you lose? I guess you lost in the second game. You beat Bucknell and then you you lost to Marquette. But but this is and but now you've gotten a chance to be a part like the first year was, I mean, you've lost They lost Gordon Hayward the year before and then they lost Shelvin Mack. Like you lose two of the kind of like all time

great Butler players. And so you do, and and the competition got stiffer and you you didn't make the n S a Terman. Second year you do, so you get to see kind of brad at you know, at a championship kind of caliber level in game. What is he like? He's really good, like I said, he's prepared for every situation. Um, you know, and you know, we we beat buck Now

pretty pretty handily in the first round. Um, and then we got against Marquette and they were really good and um, you know, we we helped out a boat a ballside corner off a shooter, um and gave up a three for them to take the lead. And then we had an opportunity at the end and we didn't get a great shot. UM you know, was was okay. So so so we don't be asking so for people who don't know you were Brad's offensive coordinator. Correct, No, not that. No,

I didn't do that stuff for Brad. Brad did his stuff. Oh that wasn't that was still help put you hole, put you in that position. Yeah, okay. So so, uh they they hit it three. Did you guys call it time out? Did you guys just come into something? Well, we got we got down the other end of the floor. Um, I'm not sure how we got got but we had a side out of bounds with a short clock on the side out of bounds, and that we had a time out. We used the time out. Um. I don't

know if we used it or Buzz used it. Um, but there was a time out, and uh the buzz came out in the one three one on the side out of bounds. Um. And it was really really good, really good, and um, you know it gave us some problems. We got the ball to Andrew Smith at the top. He got a shot off, not a great look and and and didn't make it. But um, it was it was a really really good college basketball game. Um. And uh, you know we had we had Rottney Clark on that team,

you know, Kelly Dunham on that team. Um, so we we could score some points. Uh, Andrew Smith, you know, Roosevelt Jones was was younger, Kim Woods was younger, So we had some guys that can compete. It is it's just a really good, uh college basketball game. I think we were the sixth seed and I think Marquette was maybe the three um playing down there in Mexington, so it was a obviously a better loss. And then you know that was We're in the eight ten that year.

So my time, my five years of Butler, we're in three different leagues. We're in the Horizon League than the eight tun and then ultimately made the move to the

Big East. Yeah, and I don't think people understand how hard that is to you know, you go from the Horizon, which is like low major, right most of the league's like low major, to the A ten, which is a good high major league, you know, especially then, and then to the Big East, and you know, it's it's a massive step up in competition because you have teams, you know, Villanova kind of coming down from us from a high major A ten was more mid major, and then the

Big East end was like a mix of like the mid you know, high mid majors and low high mid you know, like there's a reason Nova was struggling a little bit in the Old Big East and all of a sudden you come down you're playing against the New Big East competition and they're just throttling people. Right, So it's a it's a different level on day to day in terms of who you're playing against as opposed to who you're previously recruiting and playing against. Is that accurate, no,

no question, without a doubt. And and uh, you know we were with having Rottney Clark sitting now um, and we had some talented guy I mean Roosevelt Jones. Those guys were good players, um and killing Downham a good player, and so we were able. We competed very well in the A t and I think we finished third in the A and it was a very strong year for the eight. St. Louis was really good that year, um. And then we got in the Unst A Tournament and then our first year in the Big East. Um, you know,

we Roosevelt Jones was hurt. He tore up a risk um on a on a trip to Australia. Our team took our we took our team to Australia on one of those foreign trips um, and he tore up a risk um and was out for the year. And we weren't we weren't prepared from a roster standpoint to make that jump that quickly. Um, and uh for our first year in the in the Big East was not very good.

And then the next two years we uh we competed well, got the unst A tournament and uh you know has had some success and and kind of set them up for you know where they are now. But UM, it took us a recruit We're able to get Kelan Martin and one of those eight early recruiting classes, and then you just you know, you have guys like Cam Woods and Roosevelt Jones and coming down him that were left over. Um you piece those guys together. We had a really

tough kid that was a walk on named Alex Barlow. Yeah, yeah, baseball guy and now he he you know he works uh in the Celtics organization. Just a just a really tough guy. And UM, you know, when you have those types of competitive people on your team, you've got a chance. And that's that's kind of how we were able to survive. Um there, but learned we had you know, coming down him can shooting and Kelan Martin, you know he rolled

out of bed get in eighteen to twenties. So you put those guys together and we were able to, you know, hold and did a great job of kind of holding that whole situation together. And and uh, we had we had a really good group of kids that cared about winning. I really didn't care about how we want, just cared about winning. Um again, so we're able to keep it rolling. Okay, So Bradley, let me go back, which when Brad leaves? Where were you when Bratt when you find out Brad's

going to go to the NBA. Brad called. I was sitting in a in Brandon Miller's car. We were heading to get coffee on the last day of camp. It was the last Friday of the four of we had. We ran four weeks of camp but Butler at that time,

and we just finished up our camp staff meeting. We had like an hour before the campers we're gonna start rolling in and we had h and I were just getting in the car to go get a cup of coffee and uh, and Brad called to let us know that um, he wasn't gonna be at camp until after lunch that Danny Angel was coming and he was sitting down with him, and we knew, Um, I knew at that time. I knew Brad well enough and been arounding through you know. I mean, every every school was calling

Brad at that time. You know, I think if I was eating the time when when U. C. L A reached out to Brad about coming out here. Um, and I knew the fact that he had actually was going to sit down face to face, that that this was real. It wasn't just somebody e gauging interest or Brad just you know, saying things. But no, and and I just remember hanging up the phone, you know, when bringing hung up the phone and and we had had that conversation

on speaker phone. I just looked at Brandon. I'm like this, this dude's gone. Man, he's going to Boston. And and and good for him, you know, what a what an opportunity. But yeah, that's that's where I was. I was hading to get a cup of coffee sitting in the Kinklefield House parking lot when I found out. Okay, so did you have a chance to go? No? You know, I really I didn't entertain anything, you know, really like I was really happy in Indianapolis. I thought we had some

good stuff going. Um, you know, and no, I never I never asked and I was never off you know. So um I was at that time when Brad left, I tried to get the Butler Hey coaching job. I interviewed with h I interviewed with Barry Color twice. So that's um, you know, I knew how the Butler way worked. UM, I knew the opportunity like this is how hey, this is how um that's how Fad might have got the job. Is how uh you know this is you know, Liquidder got the job. This how Brad got the job, Like

this is how this place works, you know. Um, Matthew Graves and had already left to go to um South Alabama, like you know, like if I'm if I'm going to have a shot at this, this may be my shot, you know. And and uh so I tried to prepare in a very short amount of time, uh to interview with Barry and got to sit down with Barry Color twice and and ultimately he hired Brandon Miller. But um, that's kind of where my focus was at that time. Okay,

so what's that like to be. Like you said, obvious, you're close to Brandon Miller and you're in the car hang up and you guys are both fighting after the same job. He gets it, You don't you stay? And what was what's that like? I think you're just you're a professional and you do the job like you focused, like you know you you you deal with the initial disappointment, right,

I mean there's gonna be a human emotion there. You deal with the initial disappointment of you know, being maybe as close as you're gonna be to that opportunity UM. And really, at that time in my career, the closest I had been to something like that UM and out of school like Butler UM. You know, you're you're you're disappointed, but you're also like, hey, like you also have a job to do. You've got a family you need to

take care of. UM, and you've got a team full of of athletes that that you've grown close to, that you care about and you want to you immediately turn your focus, so, hey, what's what's best about for these guys? And get out, get outside of your selfishness, get outside yourself and try to focus on what's what's best for the people, um that lean on you and that are around you, you know what's best for them and so, um, you know it wasn't awkward in any way. You know,

we had worked together before. Um, you know he had played there. You know, Barry had recruited him. Like I got all the connections. He was a Butler guy, Like I did it. I respect all that I respect. You know, I played for a program, which tradition, I worked at a program right now, and I talk to you rich and tradition. Butler, you know, has their own tradition, Like I respect that. I understand all that, And so it wasn't really difficult for me once I got back uh

into the job to do my job. You Um, and then you work for Holt, who got the job when Brandon takes a leave of absence and who really empowered you. Um. But then you you took a chance. And I remember you and I talking about about going to Nebraska like, look,

I gotta you know, I gotta, I gotta try this. Um. What was you know, because there's lots of basketball coaches listeners, what was the decision like to leave Butler where you had Keelan Martin, you had dudes you'd figured out how to compete in the Big East, and you're in You're in your comfort zone in Indianapolis. But there's a you know, you keep bumping into kind of a ceiling there. Um. What was the what was the thought like about about

leaving leaving for Nebraska? Well, what you just said, I was in my comfort zone and I felt like for me to to grow, I needed to get outside of my cumber zone. You know. We talked to are our players all the time about workouts, like you've got to You've got become comfortable being uncomfortable. You know, you can't. You're not going to get any better if you work out at a comfortable place or at a comfortable pace.

You've got to expand your boundaries. Um, you know. And after year or two with Chris Um, Georgia Tech approached Chris about an opportunity um that he he ended up not doing. And and I knew again going back to the Butler way of promoting from within, I knew how that the whole process you know, took place. And Chris turned that down and and and came to us of the staff and say, hey, I'm gonna sign a longer term deal here with Butler. This is this is where

I want to be. This is a lifetime decision for me, and UM, you know, with the timing of everything on Nebraska had a note meaning that that uh, you know, I could get involved with and I just felt like with everything going on, UM, you know, if I wanted to ultimately take the next step that it was this was an opportunity that I had to really considered, you know, as far as one jump into the Big Ten, which I had played in. UM loved being a part of the Big Ten, and you know, it's the highest level

of of college basketball. You know, it's one of the premier leagues in the country, and so you get to compete against those coaches, against those players every day from you know, from the basketball point to the to the recruiting and everything that goes with it. UM. And it's just an opportunity to do that and plus get out of my comfort zone a little bit as as a coach. You know, I had grown up uh in Indiana, was coaching in Indiana. You know, when you're at Butler, you

kind of you you recruit a certain type of player. UM, a certain type of kid has to fit the Butler way. So to speak, um, and I wanted to to expand myself a little bit and taking on a different challenge. And you know, Chris has given me a ton of responsibility as far as you know, calling the altinates and things there. Get allowed me to grow immensely as a coach because he gave me those responsibilities, and he gave me an opportunity to fail. Like I mean, that's how

you learned. Like you fail, you learn from it more and you you don't make that same mistake again. So I felt like, well in my time with with Chris that I had really grown as a coach. I had really expanded, um, my knowledge of the coach as far as you know in game play calling and different things, and and um that it was just the timing of everything in his commitment to to Butler Um that it was time to take the next step. And you know I didn't in hindsight, I didn't realize he was gonna

go to Ohio State, you know, twelve months later. But as I'm sitting here at u C, I think everything is has worked out. You just I've always tried to make decisions when they've come up on my plate in my career with the knowledge that I have at hand and and try to make the best decision at that time. And then once you make that decision, I never looked back, like I don't look back to hey, what effort this happened?

That happened. Not not at all like everybody says. Everybody says that at all, because I mean, I'm talking about it right now to you, But like I don't, like I made a decision to go to Nebraska, and every day I was at Nebraska, I worked my ass off to make that decision, the right decision. I think that's your job. No, I understand. Look listen, I understand that. But but I but I mean, like, look, if I'm honest, and I was at ESPN for nine years, and I like, all I really, I mean, I wanted to make a

certain amount of money. I wanted to continue to grow, and they offered me, honestly, the exact amount of money that I wanted, but they wouldn't promise any growth. And probably you know, like at the moment there, I was a little selfish, and I was like, why don't you

you know? All I asked for is like these five things, and you said no, But you said yes to the money that I wanted, and you know, CBS offered me the opportunities that I wanted and uh not, you know a little bit more money, but I had to uproot my family. Like look in hindsight, I don't know. I mean, I would just be honest, like, if I could go back and do it, I wouldn't have gotten to do the fun before. But there was also a lot of moving, a lot of hard stuff with the family in terms

of moving. I think it's a reasonable thing to look back and to say was this the right decision? Was it the wrong decision. It doesn't mean you can't like I've I've every day I worked there. Every day I've worked at Fox like I try and you know, kick ass. I think about the Oaklahoma State job I didn't get, like I I think it's I think all these things are reasonable to look back at. Can you you can honestly not look back and have any sort of regret, Like, dude,

if you would have stayed there, I don't know. If they hire vout they might. I mean he played at Butler, he was a head coach. You didn't have head coaching experience, but you were there, or you could have gone to a how States still been in the Big ten, you know, at a better spot than Nebraska in terms of getting players Like that, that's not a reasonable thing to at least think about. No, I think you can. I think you can look back and learn from decisions you make.

But I don't spend a lot of time wondering what if, Like like, okay, say that does I'm like what you just said, Maybe that that scenario plays out, I'm at O while State. Do I have the opportunity to be at U c l A. Who knows? You don't know? Like That's why I don't spend a lot of time like there's so many waters, there's so many different scenarios. Like all I know is like I made a decision to go to Nebraska. I worked my ass off every

day to help that program, you know, get better. In the last two years, we had the best two year run since ninety one. Okay, so I think it's in a better spot than when I when I first got there. And now now I get the opportunity to work at U c l A. If I don't go to Nebraska, maybe I'm not ever here at U c l A. And this is this is a really cool opportunity, uh, you know, for anybody in college basketball to be able to coach you at U c l A. So that's why I think. I think you can look back at

the decisions you make. I think you can learn from them. But I don't. I don't spend a lot of time like how I could have done this or what if this would have happened like, because I think it just takes away from from the job that you have at hand. And I've I've been very fortunate by just doing the job I have at hand and trust in the process that it's gonna lead to whatever is next. And like I said, like I get I'm pretty lucky. I've been really lucky to be where I'm at. But that's how

I've gone about my my career. And I'm sitting in Westwood. So I'm not too upset. I'm not I'm not going to change, you know. And maybe it's wrong to say, like I never looked at but I don't allow myself to spend a lot of time wondering about the what is, you know, I just thinking about how I can get there. You know, I think you learned from the decisions you make. Um if you had to go back and do it again.

Like it all depends on the timing. That's why I say, I just when when a decision comes my way and I have to make a decision to up prove my family or to take the next job or whatever it is, I just used the knowledge that I have at that time and the president to try to make the best decision at that time, and then I spend the rest of my time trying to make whatever decision I decided to make it the best decision. And that's that's how I've gotten here. Okay, so this is this is the

first time you were fired, right? Yeah? Yeah? What what what I mean? I couldn't have been terribly enjoyable to go to work because you know, like you're one of your best players is hurt, and there's this kind of cloud looming, right. And there's a lot of discussion over Nebraska basketball last year, and I thought I thought the whole thing was weird, to be honest as an outsider, because like, Nebraska is in the Big Twelve when I was there, obviously, and they were notorious for being talented,

terrible on the road. It's never won an n c A tournament game, and you know, they they built incredible facilities. And I think that people think you sprinkle in some pixie dusk and facilities and you're just like all of a sudden gonna be at the top of the Big Ten.

Like do you know how good the big and what you're doing, Like do you people have like fans have no excuse my French fucking clue, like the Big Ten, Like you're not the only one trying to be good, like Illinois has Illinois has been good forever and they have an awesome coach and they were at the bottom of the league. Like it's really really hard because all the coaches are good, all the teams are older than the other leagues, you know, and all the crowds are good.

The arena is good, Like, yeah, you've got good facilities, great, so does most everybody else in the league. UM, And and they have they have more players that that grew up closer and fans of their program, right, and that's the that's the key to recruiting. UM. But what's what is that feeling like for a guy who you know, look, you've it hasn't been easy. You know, you didn't come out in the NBA Draft. You were in the USBL you did get cut after one game playing overseas, but

you've never been fired before. What what is that? Like? Did Tim call you did? Did? How does that work? No? I mean like like we were rolling, we were thirteen and four. I think we're are thirteen and two, thirteen and four, and when we were ranked in the top twenty five and really kind of on on the track to do everything that that they expected, you know, of the team that we had in Nebraska in and and honestly that you know, Nebrasa has never won an nca

tournament game. Um. You know, that challenge of doing that excited me. Um. And but the expectation of this year's team was to go to sweet six team, you know. And like that's what you talked about the fans, Like the best thing Nebraska has going for it is the fans. They have unbelievably passionate fans that love the Huskers. Um. But when you have that, you also sometimes get some

some expectations and things that can be somewhat unrealistic. And um, the expectation for us was to basically stip a skip a step in the processor too and just you know, wind up in the Sweet sixteen. And and uh, like you know, like you've only been the in state tournament seven times. Somehow has taken me there one of those seven times, Like, let's just win a game and then won't worry about you know, what's what's next. And um, so that that's kind of what drove me as far

as you know, the whole Nebraska thing. And I thought we were set up to do that and obviously we had a horrific injury with Isai Copelan turns a c O and you know, things got loose, and um, we just weren't able to win, you know, down the stretch and in the conference. And so you know, going through that whole deal is it's not a pleasant thing. But

like you again, you've got to get outside yourself. You've gotta quit worrying about how this affects you and realize that, you know, James Palmer, Glenn Watson, Isaiah Roby, like, this is there one shot to be a college basketball player. You know, I got my opportunity, You've got your opportunity. This is there one shot to be a college basketball player.

Now I can be selfiece of the coach, and I can quit working because hey, we're gonna get fired at the end of the year, okay, and I'm just completely be self absorbed or I can. I can put all my energy and trying to make you know, like what I talked about earlier, trying to make their experience for them as good as it possibly can be. And so that's that's kind of what got me to go to work every day and that and to continue to prepare and try to put them in the right positions at

the right time. And um, that's how that's how I approach it. I don't know if that's the right way to approach it, that's how I went about it. Um. We had a good staff that that's stuck together and just try to focus our energy on those guys and trying to help him down the stretch. And um, we had a few more injuries come up, and we got down about six fellas at the end, and and the last three weeks of coaching those guys were probably as much fun as I've had in coaching. Um, you know,

we had we had three dudes that could go get buckets. Um, and my house was great. Moms just finally told him in the locker room one day and filmily, hey, listen, you three guys go go try to get sixty five, and we'll figure it out with these other three and

we're gonna see what we can do. And and um, you know, I think we run we ring off three or four consecutive wins and and hopefully you know, those guys can remember the end of their career for for accomplishing that and kind of forget that no part of the season, but um, it was. It was a it was a different deal. No, I mean no question. What if you were going to religous this night met Tim, Tim,

I was going to get another job. Right, He's done a good job every we's been Uh, if there was one thing about how Tim Miles coaches that you will take with you that you will tell other people you should do this or this is what makes him great? What is it? Well? The thing I respect about Tim the most is how he got to a Power of five conference and like listen, like he got fired whatever day it was, he was on a flight six am next morning interviewing for another Power of five job. Like

he's a good basketball coach. Um, and I I and I give him a lot of credit because like what I told him, I'm like I said, Tim when you took over Nebraska, UM, somebody with the reputation and stature of Fred Hoiberg wasn't going to be interested in Nebraska. I said, what you've done in seven years, um, and elevated the visibility of the program. To put that program,

you know, headed in the right direction. A guy like Fred Hoiberg now once that job and and that what ultimately got you is what you should probably be most proud of is because you've set that job up in the position where somebody like Fred, you know, wants to take over. I think it's a great time, uh, to take over the agram at Nebraska. You've got an unbelievable fan base, facilities, everything. You just got to get players to want to be there. And I said, hopefully they

can achieve that. But I think the best thing that I was, the thing I respect the most about him is how he's how he kind of started like he didn't have Like he didn't play Division one like you and I. You know, he like he didn't play for legendary coaches like you and I. UM, like he you know, he was a n a I a guy that you know wasn't good enough to play, became a student assistant and just worked himself all the way up to Nebraska.

And I think that's the hell of a story for him, because you don't you don't just wind up in Nebraska, you know, you don't wind up in the power of five head job. Um. And just how he's gone about it, um to get to where he got, I think is an unbelievable story. So just you know, that little ship he has on his on his shoulder to kind of prove everybody wrong. Um, you know, I think is one

of his his greatest qualities. So you're cleaning at your garage right at in in Lincoln, but like you're because you're moving or you're just your wife is like, go clean the drage. You're annoying me. No, when when you spend a winter in Lincoln, Nebraska, like you you drag snow and salt all that stuff into your garage and when you're when you're unemployed. Um, you know, I was very fortunate in Nebraska. They had another year on my contract,

so I didn't have to do anything. I could have could have kind of been a bump for for twelve months, but our fourteen months whatever it was gonna be. But um, you live in Lincoln, Nebraska. You when the spring comes and the weather breaks, you've got to get all that that snow and winter junk out of your garage. Otherwise you just continue to track it into your house. So, um, when you're unemployed, your your wife's picks a day and and you and her just go to the garage and

you're going to clean out the garage. So that's what I was doing. And I got a little people on my phone and happened to be mccron So okay, so you pick up the phone and did you have his number saved? Like did you say mcronin? Or is this like uh Cincinnati number? Is it an l a number game? What is it? No, it was, it was it was I got mixed number on my song like I was at when I was at Eastern Illinois, like he was

at Merge State. He was the head coach of Merge State. Um, so we competed against each other a little bit there while as a butler, we played Cincinnati, um, you know, and so we we had a relationship where, um, you know, we've exchanged a few texts, you know, a year of cinema, you know, like the wine emoji or something. After a

big win, say congrats to him or something. And I think he would watch our teams play, you know, late at nine different things, and if we won a big game, you know I'd get a you know, a text or two a year congrats or you know, good luck or thinking obvious things like that. We would see each other on the road recruiting always say hi, hit chat a

little bit. You know how that stuff goes. But um, yeah, it popped up mccronin and it was just say, just checking in on you, Um, you know, how are things going? And he had he had just recently got the usually job. And uh, you know, as it was you know, things are good, I said, not as good as they're going for you. You know, it's you've just gotten gotten this job. But um, that's kind of how things things got started.

And we just started talking from there. So so you you get to have you ever been to u c l A before you took the job? I had driven uh by campus. I've been out here recruiting a few times. There was a there was a big Adida's tournament out here. Um you know that I always come to and and uh it was in the old recruiting calendar. It was the end of the second week. Um, you know, whether it was Verdondall Beach or in Anaheim, A couple of different tournaments that I would come out here in recruit.

So I had been in the area a few times, obviously. Um. It doesn't matter where you grow up. You know of U c l A. You know in their basketball program, their history, their tradition, the players like you know, all that stuff. I don't care where you grow up. Um. So, but to get out here in the field every day and to be around it every day, um, obviously, I mean special is not an ad to of it's that's good enough to explain it. But um, you know, I'm kind of a I'm a small town Indiana guy, I respect.

I love going to work in Hincklefield House every day because of of you know what that that Jim stood for. I love playing in the sim Way hall. Um. You know, I like the I like the old stuff, like you know, and and to be a part of this, this university. And and just think of the guys who have been here and walking to the PAULI like when you have you ever walked in that hallway, lean out of um downstairs, off the court and into the locker room. Have you

ever been in that hallway? But yeah, the greatest hallway in college basketball, they call it. I mean that if that doesn't get you, being like a guy like you and I I mean, I don't know what I mean. It's obviously a special place and I'm very very fortunate too to be able to represent it in a very small way. Um, have you found a good place to get a course? Like? Well, that's that's been the most

difficult thing. And like if you were to ask me, what is the most surprising thing about being here at U c. L A Is the difficulty in finding a good ice cold cores? L Um? You know, you go to these different restaurants and everybody's got their own little beer selection and and all the different breweries and I P A s and different things. And I'm a pretty simple guy, as you know, Like I just need an ice cold cores. Like but I did. I found a seven eleven, Um, got it, got it, got a twelve

pack and put it in my hotel fridge. And so I'll be okay, so I get settled. Um, okay, Uh, last thing, all of these experiences and and look, you still you want your first job, right, you want your first head head coaching job. UM, what what what is it gonna take for you to get the right opportunity? Well, you know, the older I get, you know, I try not it's like looking back. I try not to look too too far forward. I think, UM, when an opportunity

presents itself, it's the right one for me. UM. You know, I have a kind of a vision of what that's going to be. It's gonna be where you Um, you have an opportunity to be successful. UM. You know things are in place to be successful and and UM, that's that's so much more to me than than just the

basketball program. Like do you have UM you know, is your your president and the university administration, UM, your athletic director and the athletic administration, UM and myself where we walk in hand in hand and trying to achieve the same things. UM. And I think when you find that, that's that's when you ultimately can have the most success. UM. And I think that that is what we're trying to get to right now here in u c l A. I think it's a great opportunity to come be a

part of it. UM. But that's what I'm looking for in my first job. I don't I'm not too concerned about little major and minor major high major like. UM. I just wanna, you know, right now, make um U c l A as good as we possibly can make it. And if we do that, then the next opportunity is gonna come my way. But I do have a vision of what I want to what I wanted to look like, how I wanted to feel. I've been very fortunate to be around um you know, we've talked a little bit

about all of them, uh some unbelievable coaches. UM. I know what success feels like. UM, I know the type of people that it that it takes to be around the program to have that type of success. UM and and uh so I realized how fortunate I've been, and I hope to get that opportunity in the future. But when that comes, it will come, you know. Right now, I'm I'm trying to to help these guys enjoy their experience. At three thirty when we work out again. All right,

I got I got two or three more. Your favorite high school gym in Indiana is what Memorial Gymnasium, Huntingburg, Indiana. It's it's about seven and miles south of jas where it's where our our sexual tournament was, which was in the first round of the state tournament when I was there. Uh, it's it's kind of like Polly where you just see the roof and it goes down into the ground. Um. It held about seven thousand people on on on tournament nights and it was it was sold out with all

the town COMMUNI Huntingburg, Indiana, Huntingburg South roof graders. Yeah, small little town about seven miles south of JASP. So, Um, I could go back, if I could go back and play one more game, Like if I could go back and like the knees don't hurt. Everything is, everything is back when you were eighteen years old. Like that's what I'm looking at pictures of it. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, it's cool. It was hot in there, it'd be it'd be Oh, it's always so hot in there with all

the people. It's right, Okay, Uh favorite favorite big ten arena. Sim I mean that was you getting more softball for me? No, I'm just okay. So tell me something about about I've shared previously. My my, my nightmare. We got blown up. We're down forty fourteen at IU in January, in February and see me in the November of Andre Patterson threw a block a shot. He threw a shot of mine into the third row. I think he hit John Mellencamp

actually with the basketball. UM. And that was on the beginning of sports centers, Like are you ready for sports Center? It's like, no, it was like that that was my shot that he just rejected. Uh, you tell me something about you know, you tell me about the greatest was it hallway in college basketball at U c l A. What's that's the coolest part about about Assembly Hall that only somebody who played their nose, Um, I would like. I like going in there when it was when it

was empty. Yeah, and like all the lights were on, like just you know, some of the flood lights that they would you know, have on, like when when you were able to get in there when you probably weren't supposed to. Um, you know that was that was my favorite time. He was kind of going there and look around and and uh have that feeling. It was. He was interesting. We took our team that we went there

this year. Uh and and we we went and shot around the night before with with some of our guys that went in the night before because we did a shoot around on game day, but the night before we we was always have cyber. These guys want to go get some extra shots and and um, you know, Izy Copeland was still healthy at the time when he was shooting, and uh, he's like, He's like, coach, you can you can like almost feel the history in here, you know, And now I'm I'm coaching a different team in there,

you know. So I'm trying to combat that. Like, I mean, I understood exactly what he was saying, but I'm like, dude, listen, those those five banners. They're not playing tomorrow night. You know, those banners. They're not scoring any point. You know. I'm trying to get him out of that mode. But I knew exactly what he was what he was talking about and feeling the history. And you feel that same thing

when you're on this campus. You walk into PAULI Like, you look up and you've got those loving banners hanging up there, and you've got the jerseys of those guys hanging up there, like like you feel, uh, you feel that history, you feel that tradition, and that's what makes those places so special. I got I got to share with you. Jason, call your story, so call your visited us at Notre Dame before going to you guys, and

we thought we had a shot. And uh, we had a guy named Gary bells as nutfellow freshman, and I remember our coaches called us in. They're like, hey, look we've got Jason Caller coming this week uh with the kid Jason Caller and the and the Babel twins came in same weekend. So like three best white guys in America coming in and uh and um and so uh they call us in and you know, like as freshman, you're gonna be a host and pat Gary is a sophomore,

he's a host. Hey look, Caller is a great dude, great player, but he does not drink, he does not smoke, and he doesn't like cursing. It's very leges like all right, well fine, all false information, by the way, all false information. Okay, So so so we which I'm sure, so right, So we get uh they come pick me up in my

dorm and then we go rolling. We go down to Gary Bell's dorm which is like two dorms down and literally opened the door and he's got like a cigar in his mouth and forties in his arms, Like, what's up fellas this pregame? You know, Um, but I never forget that, he said. He's like we knew he was going to the end because he's like, man, coach Knight was amazing, Like my grandma loves him. He's so funny to you know, like he people got them all wrong, which people do have him had him kind of them

all wrong. But he's like, you know, he doesn't curse all the time. That's like totally overdone. And we're like, a dude, what give me your your How good a host were you when you're at IU when you we had a host a recruit? How good were you? Well? I like to think I was pretty good. We we

got we got a lot of the guys I hosted. Um, you know, now like the circasing story, he was he was an NBA draft pick, but um, you know he came to campus and and uh, you know, like hey, you you know there's a party here, there's a party here, you know, like what do you want to do? And he was just like I just I really want some steak and shake and just take me back to the hotel. So I'm like, this guy is from small town Tennessee,

like where there's no way we're getting this guy. So we went and got him a couple of cheeseburgers and took his host money and went down to the party and had a hell of a good time. But and he ended up coming in the NIB a pretty good player. But like, I think some of those visits are overrated. You know, each each guy is different, like you see it in recruiting. What they're looking for, what their family looking for, um, And it's just got to be a fit.

And I know it was for me when I walked on campus, like you know, like the but now some of the best host times that we had, like and we're like, oh this dude had a blast. Who getting him? Didn't get him getting you know, I know, but I do. I do think that some of it is also for like we used to Oklahoma State. We used to use it because we had a boat. Right there were guys

that we went to. We went to the coaches like he's not one of us, Like no, no thanks, and like really like now we we we think this guy is awesome, Like no, not at all. Um, Yeah, and we five his visit. He came in for a football weekend and we were supposed to take him the football game and he didn't want to go, and he wanted to sit in my apartment and eat Buffal Louis and watch Michigan play Michigan football game on on ABC. So when coach asked, hey, what do you guys do yesterday?

How was the football game? Like, well, we didn't go, but what do you do? And I was like, well, we set in my apartment at Buffal Louis and we watched Michigan play I don't know whoever they were playing on TV, and like coach Knight was all piste off of me, but we ended up getting, you know. But like he didn't want to go. I don't blame you. We didn't go down you games when I was playing, like you know, like you said at home, we don't watched Michigan Notre Dame and like that's what we did,

you know, um, And that's that's what we got. And he wanted to watch Michigan on his iucause he wanted to watch Michigan play football. Um, so that's what we did and we ended up getting. So that's actually amazing. I've had five I've had five, Okay, last thing. Uh, the best guy that you love seeing on the road. Okay, we have like somebody we have not just that You're just like, look, I've been a basketball coach for twenty years. This is a this is a great dude that people

should know about. UM, well, I'll give you an assistant, and I'll give you a head coach assistant. Like I met Lucadino who's now at Wishantall State. UM, he's been a friend of mine since we were in college. UM, and so I always enjoy sitting and talking with him, just kind of catching up from like as a friend thing, UM as as a coaching thing. Like I've Um, I don't even know if Roy Williams knows my name, but he has been extremely gracious to me every time I've

seen him. And if he doesn't know my name, I

wouldn't know it from our interactions. He'll sit down and he'll talk, and you know, we'll we'll end up talking for two or three games, and you know, I'll ask him about you know, he's always got buddies with him and his golf trips and he tells me all about it, and it kind of reminds you of sitting down talking to your grandfather, you know, and just you know, all the good stories he has, and he'll get he's a great storyteller, and he just starts telling all these great stories.

And I just enjoy sitting there, you know, listening to him. And unlike I said, I don't even know if he knows he knows what my name is. But every time I see him, um, you know, and we're within a close vicinity, we end up we end up talking, and and I've always enjoyed those times. It's pretty cool. For a guy like me, it's pretty cool. Yeah, for anybody, it's pretty cool. Anybody's pretty cool. He doesn't like me, He's he he doesn't like me. So he used to

really be nice to me. He was super nice to my dad, and I always thought he's he's like the world's greatest dude, and he doesn't like me because the information he was given on what I said on CBS was not terribly accurate. But whatever I said, I said, I said, uh, you know, like, look, people wonder this is back when he had his knees were bad and he had the spins. You know, he gets that kind of like once a year. And I was like, look, people wonder if he wins a Nation chanship, he'll retire,

like a legit discussion within the sport. And so it got kind of spun around too. I said Roy Williams gonna retire. It's like, no, that's not what I said. But whatever, I do think, I think he's amazing. Uh, he's interesting dude and probably the greatest head coach recruiter that there has ever been. Right, Like, I think self is really good. But you know, like Roy Williams used, he still does. He comes, he sits down in midcourt whoever somebody he wants, he comes and sits down mid courts.

Everybody knows Roy Williams there and he makes it a personal quest to get that one guy and or or whatever those guys are. And he has an unbelievable level of energy for recruiting still and uh, and he does. He does have his He he does roll deep like he's funny. He's kind of got a positive like who

are those guys? Like those are Roy Williams guys? Like okay, yeah, there there's boys and they're just itching that He's got to watch a game or two and they're itching to get out to hit the hit the golf course or the closest casino and and uh, you know, good for him. I think he's learned that that right to do that stuff. Um. How what's a reasonable what's a reasonable expectation for U C l A Over the first couple of years. Uh, you know, I think that's difficult. Like I'm still learning

our personnel. Um. You know, I think when you first get in here with the open recruiting period, you're you're really focused on the recruiting aspect. Um. I think we have some talented kids on this team. Um. I think, um that they will if if we can get them to there's a there's this big misconception about Mick and

offensive defense. But if we can get these guys to defend in the way that I believe that they're capable of based on their athleticism, um, and you couple it with their offensive abilities, and then we're going to have an opportunity to have uh some success. Um. Now, if if we don't do that, like like scoring points was not a problem for this basketball team, um, you know, defending guys, you know was And so we've we've got

to get that mentality and that focus. They've got to realize UM with all their abilities on one end, if they can if they can pick it up on the other, Uh, it can. It can lead to winning. And that's got to become important to them. You know, the highlight play has got to become secondary. Winning has got to become number one and and everything that they want to achieve will be right their form and and UH, it's been

a fun group to work with. Like I'm looking, I'm excited about three thirty to day to get out with them for our second work out of the summer. I gotta work out with them for about about a week when I first got here with the quarter system finishing UM. So we're still kind of get to know each other. They're getting a better feel for make and what he's looking for you to win. A lot of teaching UM, and these guys have been very they've responded very well UM.

And and obviously they're trying to impress a new staff and and but I think it's a good group UM with some with a very high ceiling. UM. There's just some some habits that that I've gone awry and we've got to tighten some things up. But it's gonna be fun to work with. And I think if if we can we can recruit the right side of kids um that are about the right things, and you couple that with the level of talent that you can attract your musil a um, then we can do some special things.

And that's what I'm looking forward to, no question, no question. All right, man, I've taken enough of your time. Best of luck finding actual watering holes with course light. I will I will make my personal quest. I I think the places you're looking to live you have a better chance than than right around the campus in Westwood in the meantime, But thanks for hunt. When when my family gets up here, and then you're gonna like I made

that trip on your spot. Now, when my family gets out here in middle mid July, we'll have you up and have a barbecue, and I promise you I will have found um. I already know what to bring. This is so easy, Like I hate bringing over like a bottle of wine. How about that bad bottle of wine. I hope you threw that bottle of wine. That place I had to stop at next to your house was like the place to go And why did you do that? Why did you do that? Like it was very thoughtful

don't get me wrong. It was the first time I was going to meet your wife. It was the first time I was going to meet your wife. And I was like, I gotta show, like I can't just be the dude that just shows up, right. So I don't know I was, I was. I don't know, I was just not being who I am. Like I'm I've got pretty comfortable of my own skin, and I was I was trying to be nice and and and get a

bottle of wine. And I'm sure it was. It was very nice, but it's you know, it's like it's like that kiss on the cheek thing that people do like and like you get into, you get into. I go to a party and people like come with you. You're like, we're not French. I don't do that. So I'm not gonna do that because it's not who I am and like and so maybe people think I'm an asshole because I don't bring a bottle one, but I do, you know, like, I will bring it. I'll bring you a twelver of

Coors Light. It'll be ice cold. I may have to put it in my jetti so he comes out and I would I will impress you in that way, and then you have to tell me if your wife like likes wine, that will will bring wine. Hey dude, no, no, no, wife like she's good. She like light, she likes bud light. But she'll drink course like. She's like me if it's cold. Mike, we're good now, I know. Wait, hold on, hold on, writens down twelver and a sixer. Bottles or cans. She's

don't tell me she's in the cans. No, she's a bottle girl, she says. I mean she's kind of got enough and in her older age she prefers bottles. Now, Mike, thanks for joining us. It's no problem. I appreciated. Dog. Be sure to catch live editions. So the Doug got leaps show wheat days in noon eastern three pm Pacific. All right, that was That was great with Mike Lewis. Let me give you this thought on on the Houston Rockets.

You know the Rockets. I understand how they've used analytics, and I am not one of these ostrich put your head in the sand, gonna deny the value of analytics in basketball or in any sport. It's an important part of baseball, it's an important part of football. It's an important part of basketball, but the perfect example of how the Rockets spent too much time with analytics and not enough time building a team, and now they're trying to figure out how to fix what ails them, and they

may end up making more of a problem. Look at two years ago when they won. When they lost in Game seven, should be pointed out that in Dex Andrea Dolla's reminding us he didn't play in that game. He's a huge part of the the Warriors. So the Rockets saying when we didn't have Chris Paul, the Warriors didn't have Andrea Dollah is not as good a players Chris Paul, but he is almost as important to what the Warriors

are able to do. But the point is, instead of maybe exploiting that mismatch as they had done previously in the series, they became overly reliant on the three point shot and miss seven in a row. On paper, you shouldn't miss and analytics, you shouldn't miss twenty seven in a row. Right that there isn't There isn't that kind of stretch because after you you have the same percentage chance of missing one as you do the next one, as you do the next one as you do the

next one. That's how statistics work. It's not you know, this whole water finds its level if you're you know, you know, like like if you're shoot, you're forty percent shoot on every shot that you take. It doesn't believe in hot streaks. Doesn't believe. It does believe in hot spots, but not as much hot streaks. It's statistics, and I

think it has value. But the perfect example of why the Rockets are in the mess that they're in being good but not able to be great and win a title is on paper, Chris Paul and James Harden work together when they're both in the lineup. They're incredibly efficient offensively, they're good basketball teams. But Chris Paul, like the rest of us, hates watching James Harden dribble a ball to death, and James Harden, like the rest of us, is like man, Chris Paul kind of seems old, right, and so they

struggle to get along with each other. You can't see that in statistical data, because analytically speaking, the team is far better with both of them on the court than they are with either of them off the floor. So now they're gonna ad Jimmy Butler his fourth team in four years. That's paying only attention to we can be more efficient, we can be better, instead of paying attention to how does the team actually feel and how do

they get along? Good luck with that. Last thing is this, um we're gonna have more coaches on and basketball people on about the off season. I do think Kansas would be my preseason number one. And UM, I love the idea that the n C is going to continue to try and get back to the cutting down on the waivers. It doesn't mean that, UM, I don't think that some kids transfer home for the right reasons because you have

us sick uncle or grandpa, mom or dad. But just enough people have lied about it and have gamed the system where we don't believe anybody anymore. That's really kind of what it is, right. It's the same reason you take off your shoes at a when you go through the airport screener. There's one guy who tried to blow out the world with his shoes. We'll have to take our shoes is like ten years later, more than ten years later. Sorry, one guy kind of ruined it for

the rest of us. That's the way it works. And the reality is that if you're going to transfer home, even if for the reasons that you know, you get a grandpost like you can take a year off and help that person get healthy or spend time with them while they're sick. Speaking of being sick, Um arrest in peace too. Tony BARRONI great basketball coach, awesome guy. And he was a coach Tech Sam when I first got

Tokoha mistake. And I will never forget the last line I heard him say, as head coach at Tech say at m he had been fired. It was in March, and we were at the Herford House in Kansas City where we always ate the night before the Big twelve tournament, and he comes walking in in his maroon sweats, just with his assistant coaches, and Edie Sutton says, Tony, where's your team? And Tony says, those fucking guys let them at McDonald's. They got my ass fired. How you doing, coach?

He coached Anoy Benjamin at Creighton, which should earn him automatic entrance into the gates of heaven. St. Peter got himself an angel, will give him some wings. Tony is a good dude. And then his son just got the head coaching job at Southern Illinois Edwardsville. I believe I think Brian will do an excellent job. Rest in peace to the great Tony Brownie. I'm Doug Gottliebin. This is all ball