KJ Live - Dain Ervin

last couple of weeks has been interesting for me. You know, my Bruins got kicked out the tourney. I'm out hand in l A. And the Lakers last night got the door shut on them for the playoffs. So it's a little disappointing, uh, just to say the least. Man, I don't know what type of spring is gonna be out here in l A. But I know we got good weather, so can't beat that. But but but no, this is a about you money. What's up with you? Man? What? What?

What's that? What's all the tap for you? Man? What's she? But up too late? I'm well, um um, you know for those and It's funny because coming from the final four UM me working in the grassroom space previously, I realized I didn't uh let a lot know that I did make a transition to the to the pro level UM and I'm just not the announcement guy. I'm not the edit guy. I mean, I leave that for the kids. But those that knew, they know UM, and they knew UM and I just had to like kind of tell something.

But it it was kind of refreshing to know I had coaches because I did do a great job and you know, disseminating information, getting out the right information to those guys, because like this upcoming weekend is the live period for a lot of grassroots kids, so coaches need

to know where to go. And I did a good job of making sure and letting them know not only where to go across the country, but what you know, some of the premier kids in the state of Texas UM, as well as New York and California and other places

who they needed to see. UM. I think I did a good job to say, you know, for my you know, close to ten years in the space and not sponsored by many of the machines, that I did a great job of covering the proper spaces, whether it was from Tino's and his pain Goes Brand to Ryan Silver, the West Coast League, I mean many of those. No, I covered the E y b L to even my home routs back in New York City. I always kept a good post um the mid Atlantic region with a lot of the w C w C w C A C

kids um. I did a good job of doing that. So knowing that running across the coaches on Canal and Bourbon Street and Man, I ain't gotta report, I was like, well, you know, I've moved on to another space, so and I'm enjoying the space, so I can't complain about that. And that's awesome. Man. So as we talk about scouting, man, and you've had your feet kind of rooted in that for for a large part of your career. I used

to work for a technology company. Man. We had an iPad, I own app that used to digitize the scouting process. So he basically took like uh Excel sheet and you know, put it up to the cloud and you had a you know, an app on your phone you could like take text notes and you know, record voice memos and you know, keep track of shot charging things like that as a scout as as as somebody that is a talent evaluating. I don't like to say just scout because

you're an evaluate of talent. Can you talk to me about how your process when you were in the game heavy had changed over the years from when you first got into game early on and and and the scouting was a little different to where you probably I'm sure you was always in the building and in every gym, but it feels like scouting evolved into something else. Can you talk Can you touch on that a little bit? Well?

For sure. When I initially started, you know, I thought I had to pour all my thoughts into said individuals um current head coach And I want to shout at my Robbin there, who's now the current new head coach at s m u UM. He's been a close mentor of mind. And I remember doing one of my early reports and on one player, it's like a page and halt, and I sent it that like twelve noon, and he hit me back immediately like twelve eleven and said, nobody's gonna read all of this. So I had to learn

early and often that I had to be concise. I had to be direct. I had to be colorful with my words because you needed your words to take up entire sentences. So instead of now this twenty one line breakdown of Chris Johnson, I had to break this down the four I had to get it down the three um small print, you know, things of that nature. So from that standpoint, I had to grow in that space. I do understand the popularity part um, when you talk

about social media. Social media has infiltrated um scouting in some ways some people. Some people see it in a good way. But to the purest and I consider myself of the peers like myself, UM, it's it's had a lot of harm because I think with social media, you and I both know something can happen. I live Will Smith, Chris Rock and it's heard around the world in a

matter of seconds. Um. Depending on the platform. When it comes to social media, if you get some of the giants in the space to tweet something, it can go around the world in a matter of seconds. So if you get someone who has a platform like a John Lucas, if you get someone on the media side like a Seth Uh, Seth Davis or Jeff Goodman, Um Jeff Borzello,

Jason Jordan's Um, Eric metcalf Um. Stuff like that. It can, it can, It can get everywhere to every crevice that it needs to get too good or bad, and it stays on people because they can even people like yourself. You have your brother, he has a platform, Josiah, so you can say something and if it's not one accurate,

people can see it for what it is. There's so many young guys that we know have gone viral on social media and in people's mind they think they can really play because they may have made a move and it A hundred thousand people have seen it, a half a million people have seen it. And people think popularity means you're good, and that's not the case, and you you just said something that is really defines the culture today. Popularity is what matters. Who they like is what matters.

It doesn't It doesn't necessarily matter if you're good at what you do. It doesn't necessarily matter if you're an expert in your field. But if you are liked and you have the people behind you, they're rolling. Let me ask you this, when you miss on a player, say a guy you might you know, rate it a little low. I know Clint Parks are good buddy. Clint Parks is always talking about all the misses in the class that Kawhi letter came out with and who who who who

people ranked and what the scoutings had. When you miss dave on a guy, do you do it like self evaluation? Do you not trip at all? Is it something to where you just kind of, you know, don't even think about it. Where is this something that you say, wait, why did I miss on him? And I need to sharpen up certain parts of my game so I don't miss on another one? Or does it even matter to you? Well, like they say, uh, pencils come with the racist for

a reason. Um, you know, people make mistakes. Uh, just like even a mistake that I may I called the gentleman Eric Metcalf, which that was the running back from the Browns, when it's Myron metcalfs I correct that because Myron is I was thinking. I was thinking like that. I hope Myron gets a kick out of that. So my apologies because he does great work. But I was thinking, I've been doing football a couple of my guys, but no Myron Metcalf. And that's my point that you make mistakes.

It's your job, though, to go back and correct it. And I think when we talk popularity, we talked scouting and especially a lot of the vehicles, like the websites, whether it's you know your rivals, you sevens, go back to scout, you go back to hoop scoop. I think that's something that they did not like to do. They did not like to show that they were uh normal,

that they couldn't make mistakes. That you may jump out there and you may rank a kid out of particular slot, and you would rather keep said kid and said spot to make sure that you came across as if you were right. And then the moment he got off your clock and say college or even if they got to the pro level, they weren't that good, you'll be quick to say, well he was good at my level. No, he was never good to begin with. He was never good to begin with. So I think, like to I

give you one of my missus, and I don't. I don't think it's a miss because when I look at the reference points that I went from, my reference points showed that it wasn't going to be the superstar that he was. And it is it's Luca Dottor. I think with Luca, you've seen so many European bigs come over have success. Um, you had to share point guards that have had success, but we never saw a win come over and have this type of dominance and success early.

And it was going back to guys like a Haydu Turgalou or some other guys that you say, well, he may be like that, But I don't think a lot of people saw Luca being what he is now because we didn't know he was going to have the freedoms

and the opportunity to do what he's doing. How much weight when you're evaluating Luca, how much weight did you put into the fact that he was playing in the a CB since he was fifteen, sixteen or whatever, real Madrid, high level European basketball at an early age, because you know how it is with those guys. It's like you see him in soccer. You see that once fifteen year old on the first team dog, you know he's nice.

I just wondered, like, when you saw the competition level and his production day, what made what didn't you necessarily weren't you sold on? So I looked at the league, though I looked at what the NBA had, and not for nothing, guys are aging guys were in JR. I don't think I weighed that properly because I'm looking at he's coming into a league with Kauai Lebron or George Kevin Durant in my mind, and I'm thinking solely small forward. I'm not thinking they were gonna allow him to be

as versatile as he was. I'm thinking you're gonna have to get in the pot with those guys and mix it up with them. But low and behold. That's what I did get wrong, And probably I did not weigh enough of the league that he was in. And I'm sure you were familiar with it to understand, Nah, this this would be equivalent to a blue blood league of

high level college basketball. This may translate. So I didn't look at that because you're talking about we were coming out of ra with so many guys that we saw that were drafted overseas. They were drafted in the top five, ten first round and never came over you know, New York City to this day, and I know it's it's a piece of round tests, you know, metal world piece that it's still didn't in his heart that his beloved knicks were right there, and they took Frederick White's who

you know, never came over, never came over. So like in in the in the Luca case, when you saw the management at the time, who had a very personal relationship um with his family in Sacramento pass on him, I'm like, oh, well, he can't be that good, like y'all known this for so long to not that. That's like you and I knowing Jason Crow and we know his son is coming up, and we're like, no, we're not gonna take j We're gonna take Bill Gates. It's like,

what exactly you get what I'm saying. And then it's like then we see, you know j C too come up, and it's like, whoa wait a minute, well Chris, why didn't you take him there? Why y'all known his dad? Why didn't you take him? WF man? And then we're out of a job though unemployed because we didn't take Jake too. So in situations like that that I think led to the perception for somebody like Luca and and you know, hence people I have no no at that time,

I wasn't in a pro space. But if you would have asked me my projection on him, Um, I would have got that wrong. I definitely would have got that root. Let me actually this currently do the way you guys look at Europeans, you know, ball players, European stars, wings in particular, has it changed with the success of Luca? I think so. I think I think now the blueprint if if Europeans want to get it right, and I think it's the same way in America. You just send

them the same route. So if they're young enough to get into that level of European player what you mentioned, and they're having success, I think that's gonna be a good indicator for people to say, nah, he might be one of the ones like such and such camean troup,

such and such Caman troup. So when you have a pattern, it's it's no different than Again, we talked about the past of of bigs in college basketball, that when you went through George Town and you saw what Patrick did, you saw what Zoe did, you saw what the Kimba did. That gives Boom boom jay shot, that gives Don Read the shot, that gives the high White the shot. So

I think when it comes to the European style of evaluation. Um. And if they're smart and you know, golf a bid, there's no issues there, no war, you know, conflicts for for players that if they can go those routes, um, it's gonna help. It's gonna help solidify kind of those paths for players. Absolutely, and I think that that path over the course of the last decade, and show man, it's been pretty solid. Man, it's been some some real solid draft picks. The the all the top guys right

now in the league. As far as the VP voting or from foreigners, uh, the league is definitely on the international uh tip. Right now, I want to talk about a specific question about your opinion on the G League versus the n C Double A. As we saw last year, several players decided to rock with the G League on the development tip. A lot of those guys where five stars could have played possibly college. You know, I was

reading online. There's there's a lot of back and forth right now and a little bit of a debate about whether or not the n C Double A experience and the exposure game from college basketball, the friendships, the the long lifelong he's just loyalty to your institution is just such a such so valuable in this world. Do you feel like that today's ball player when given the choice, and I'm not gonna ask what do you think they

should do? But what do you feel like the G League is a is a viable option to improve, developed and get to the league versus college. So let's let's make no mistake. I think for the masses, uh, in a macro sense, there's no better situation than college basketball. I think you the question probably be flipped to you because you being a national champion, and it will never be forgotten for a group of guys that were on

your team, that experience. You can never replace that. I do think on the flip though, when you talk on the micro side of things, for individuals, um, if if you're that talent, it is a way. UM, it's a way that that you can't replace. I want to say the last six drafts, I want to say, there've been individuals who and they didn't go to college, UM, and

yet they were still drafted in some capacity. UM. You had guys like Darius Bazo, you had guys like Robinson Um from the Manual Moodiers to the Terrence Ferguson, many of those guys. Clearly, if the talent is there, um, you will still be recognized, you can still be selected. So but I just don't think that route is at a macro level yet. It is not for everybody. I think when it gets to that, you know, everyone keeps mentioning how the rules will go back to change and

then allowing guys to go out of high school. But I don't. I just don't think we're very yet. But is it is it good for the select few? Of course? Well, and I think that's where to be honest, it probably should stay because it's not for everybody. So when you see selective individuals do it, um, that's one thing. But to open it up like as if everyone can do it, no,

that's that's not realistic. Yeah, I think people are operating with the sense of disillusionment and they talk about the G League and they don't have any idea about the competition level, and then they could somehow easy because it's a minor league. I played in the c B a UH, which was the precursor to the G League. For those out there, they don't know, and I'll tell you what I mean. It was night and night out man. It

was high level competition. Guys are hungry. Guys are trying to you know, earn a living as men in the G League, in the c BA, places like this. So for those youngsters Jaden Hardy and these other guys that were with the G League at night, they undoubtably they got great. First of all, they got great tutelage under guys like Jason Hart, Poo Jetter and that staff that they hired. Second of all, the competition factor. I don't think enough is given enough credence is given to when

young men play against grown men. So when you have a teenager that has to suit it up against something dude that's twenty seven grown man strength, couple of kids you know a job and you know how to you know, but but just planning for something, playing to put food on it. It's a difference in compete against high school kids in college. I was gonna say with with your example, when you went through the cb A, that was after four years of college, correct, correct, So imagine you cutting

that in half. Let's say you left U c l A as a souphamore having to compete against those same guys. I think when you left U c l A with all your experience in the national title. It helped you face those men. What makes it even more difficult, I think people are not really uh weighing. Is you're talking my kids trying to come out of high school or one year out of college, two years out of college.

You're not fully equipped, and you're telling this guy to go compete against that guy who got a baby mama, a wife on the side, a couple of poles, like it's it's tough. It's really tough, Like, come on, man, it's a different monkey on your back. Man, it's it's a different hunger that you're the A. You're the A. You guy, You're coming from the Johnson legendary family. Everything

that was given to you. You never fought for your dad if you came up in this religious call it because I don't think you and your family get enough of their medals and trophies, because I don't give out flowers and and all that to men, but um with no disrespect, like your family is legendary. If your dad was coming up now, you would have your own AU team.

You feel what I'm saying. So, what are the chances that you and your brothers, to be honest, would afford for anything against other than against each other who's getting the card. But you never had to compete or whatever it may have you. And that's to set up unfortunately now and a lot of grassroom situations. So when you put that mindset on a kid and then now you take him out of that and thrust him in the world. When you play against that guy who we got student loans,

you know what I'm saying, he got a couple of kids. Like, it's a different fight, and it's almost unfair because again he's not equipped enough. He didn't go through enough to be able to compete with this man. And it's it's it's it's a slanted business from the store. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live. Yeah, it is, but I

really see the value of it. I was on the j B eight tour with LaVar Ball when he put together that league. You know, Facebook kind of bake rolled in and we traveled around the country man and played games city to city in arenas, uh forty eight minute games. You know. Melo Ball was obviously the major attraction, but

Lavarre used that as a vehicle for his development. And that's what I why I always gave LaVar ball such a ton of credit is because he always had the balls growing up playing against grown, grown dudes or old or older dudes. They always played up LaMelo as you probably remember twelve third team cherry picker. You remember the whole deal and just kill you know what kind of offense is that back then? But then he turns out to be, you know, probably the rookie of the year.

I think that that in terms of development, is one of the most is It's an overlooked aspect, and I think we need to figure out a system to create those matchups more for for for when youth they're playing basketball. So like when you start, you know, second, third, fourth, fifth grader, I feel like you got to be playing against you know, six seventh graders? Are you gotta be

playing up from jump? And that brings me to a developmental question as far as the United States, what do you think is the single most important peace to developing the next generation of ball players so that the US can stay at the top or regain its spot at the top. If you listen to some people talk about it. What do you think it takes well, I also want to add a piece and then it goes I guess transitions right into your question. Um, the support has to

be universal. Um, there are current rules and regulations in place by the n C double A that prohibits UH our youth from competing with even just college guys in camp. Sentence, So when we used to have because again when you went to camp as a kid, and I did as well, so now we're talking to eighties and nineties, there was always UH camps were at night. The really good campers played against the collegian guys and you've got a chance

to see where you measure. But when we had the same Nike academy, UM, we weren't allowed to mix the elite high school kids with the college guys. Now, granted, the pros would come in the Nike had and with all the bells and whistles from your lebron see your Paul Piersons, Devin Booker's, um you name, and they competed

with the different groups. But I think there would have been a little bit of a natural organic humbling process because you got a lot of kids now and I really hate this with with college athletics, that programs look

at the incoming freshman as the threat. We see it all the time where you and I, you're a junior, I'm a sophomore, but this highly talented freshman is coming in and you and I are considering transferring because this said kid is coming in and I find out to be the most like what you literally here because I

think the system is twisted. I keep saying it needs to be a hard reset on on the system as far as with with with college as well as high school and grassroots, because there's a mix up of respect, there's a mix up of understanding. I remember UM coming up in Queens and and playing with um well known UH college assistant Kamana Young has done a great job at the University of Connecticut, and he was older than I, but with my younger group. Like we said earlier in

a separate conversation, it's a young man's game. So he's coming from Utah playing for the legendary coach Haskins. And when we're playing on a black stop, we're isolating and driving and Duncan and Duncan and one day he literally stopped me and a couple of my friends is that understanding. College somebody's gonna be there. So what you think you're doing on the street and in high school that don't work. In college, you got coaches that spend hours upon hours.

You and I probably have spent a thousand hours doing the shell drill in practice. You know what I'm saying. So when it gets drilled in your mind, your strengths get taken away. So bringing it back to your question about development, I think there needs to be some type of the relinquish of power um hovered over the teaching aspect. I think there needs to be a level of certification.

I haven't had to always these experience, but I hear from so many guys like yourself that the teachers of the game abroad they have to go to a level

of certification. There has to be a screening, And I think now it's more about again who's popular, who has the relationship with said kid, and then that individual holds that power over everyone who comes across with this kid, whether it's the AU coach, the high school coach, even up to the collegiate level, they're holding Because I have control over Chris Johnson, I can make Chris transfer from U C l A. So consequently, you're gonna let me do what I want to do with Chris and whatever

else I want to do. That issue that has to be regulated somehow, and it can be with a pool a level of teaching that like some type of board where we have enough eight minds in this country where we could set up aboard. UM. Maybe it's even a conversation with people like Jeremy McCool at the n C Double A that that you know, we need to set this up to allow that to open up the teaching process. I feel like USA Basketball, the onus is on USA

Basketball to do that. I feel like USA Basketball has responsibility to organize to bring everything together under one roof make it easy. Because I went through a certification process through them years ago. I don't know if you remember, they were doing those coaches license uh for stuff and you had to you had to do it to coach on the E Y B l A A U and you have to be certified. So that was a good start. Um, it sort of weeds out the um. You know those

dudes you you talked about a little earlier. But I also feel like basketball is so boys basketball so different in the politics and the dynamics. Something has to be done with disability to be above the rules, to be above the law. You know, everything applies to everybody else, but because he's so good, nothing applies to him. That's

so that part of it. As we evolved as a society of the culture, we gotta get out of that, take that out of our hoop culture and really kind of you know, stop treating stop overlooking stuff or treating people at their but the rules because of their talent level. I'm just that's that's that's ridiculous to me. No, that

that's very ridiculous. But to your point about the certification piece and and and I know USA Basketball, uh, Coacht Show, Walter and those guys who a great job Showman White, um, but I gotta ask the question, are they the loan people to do that? Is it possible that another group

or committee can be created? And again I'm trying to incorporate the NT double A because if if someone like Jeremy were cool, who was very very knowledgeable, he understands, he understands both sides because of course he works in the n C double A And then he comes from the culture in which you and I come from like could he not put together a board across the country who individuals that are trusted that if you're on the West coast with Pool and Jason, I may be in

the South guys like a Malik Rose or someone like Terrence Williams is on the East coast like because they're only but it's only so much USA basketball can do you understand what I'm saying, Like they're entity in itself and for them to have to cover the entire country on their own, at some point some of these responsibilities have to be extended out with individuals that want that have the same mindset that you and I have to say.

We need to make sure that we as a nation making sure that our dominance is not coming off the next of the rest of the world. Because to your point, if the m v P goes away, and it goes and this is gonna be now the fourth ye in a row that the League MVP has not been an American born player. So we know that narrative is coming up.

We know the narrative of y can't America when the League MVP suppose we're the best league in the world, all the foreigners and what an m v P and it's just like, okay, so now we gotta go on this. You know, Redeemed Team Tour dominate the game again. But it is worth the conversation. I'm saying, well, what are they doing that we're not doing that They're getting it right and we're not getting it right. So um, it's it's worth the conversation. I think for sure to talk

about why USA basketball. I just feel like a governing body that has established respect around the country should take the lead on the situation like that. And if in to your point about having uh different parts of the country and like satellite committees and things like that, that makes a lot of sense. But there has for me, it's like who we are, Who are people gonna listen to? Like what who has Who's going to be able to command the respect? Is it the n C Double A?

I don't know. Do we respect the n C Double A still? I don't know, you know, our dudes rolling with the n C Double A like we used to not as much. But USC basketball still sort of has a good reputation. They have the ain power. Grand Hills involved. I think he's doing something over their USA. He's the director that he runs it all he's the guy. So now it's like, you know what, I feel like they just because they do it with us A Volleyball. I experienced it working on with with like USA Soccer, us

A Volleyball when I was doing that tech company. They're so frequent organized, they have all their registration, Like every tournament that's ever played for us A Volleyball, it goes to us A valuable all the registration. That's It's not like and you know how basketball's individuals know. It's a database that USA Volleyball has on everybody. They do it in soccer as well. I just would like to see USA basketball a little bit more organized and kind of

leading the charge on that push for development. So here here's a good point to that, to that convo too as well though, and and even to your NC double A point. While U s A, you're right, they have that respect that on and that that that they have that steak in the space, but the n C double A, regardless how we both feel, they still can shut things down. Uh you know what I'm saying, like as a masses, because you and I can feel what we want, but

we still got to go to college. So we're like we're still right in front of them and they can be like, yeah, so remember that conversation, you know what I'm saying, like not that they moved like that had our own ex man, just but I'm looking at the n C double A that they still con deem you ineligible. They still dictate when you can transfer. They still dictate

a lot in the space. So even though like you said, their brand is not as it's not shining as bright, but that sign is still on and that sign is still there, so um there that I mean again, I'm you know, I'm always open for positivity and moving forward with things, and I think this is a great talking point at some point, um to have that convo because of again getting that that that's that, that's that stronghold again on things like you're saying, like we're starting to

see the early signs that that others are are you know, putting their foot down. We need to get back to what we know. When you think about in terms of value, the most important basketball events for a potential draft pick during the pre draft process, When you think about it in terms of value, there is there is that there is the highest value in individual workouts against other guys. These these one on ones, two on two situations or

is it Chicago? Is it Portsmith? Is it you know those type of events that matter more as far as making an impression for a draft pick or do these guys already have who they drafted? Talk to me? Let me not expect that you talk to me well, to me, Yeah, I think you can't. It goes back to what we just talked about n C Double AF. There are certain gentleman's from this past year that they put their working during the season. They're not gonna work out, They're not

going to Portsman, They're not, um going to Tampa. Tampa is a new event that's starting to spring up, gentlemen. Yeah, and Matt Babcock and a couple of guys and I know his uncle and yeah, so they're they're doing event down in Tampa. Um, you have Pointsmouth, you have Chicago. But think about it, the really good ones are not playing it. So what does that actually tell you? If you put the work in during the season, if you look the part um, you don't have to do any

of that. You literally don't. They're really good ones work out by them. You think Tim Duncan went through Chicago, You think Tim Duncan went through a workout with anybody? Now, let's keep it a hundred. Did Allen Iverson work out with anybody like? No? Definitely not your top lottery guys, right, so after after the lottery, there's one. Now that's a better question. Now, depending on who you are, what you look like. I believe there are two types of draft bocks.

It's just me. You have those that aesthetically they looked apart. There are six nine with the seven five wing span. They jump out to the gym, the Olympus like Stacy Akerman's. You know, they got the mind of a great point guard. You get what I'm saying, And it doesn't matter what that prospect does, he's gonna get a shot at the

next level. You feel what I'm saying. But then the other type of prospect, to me, it's the resume pro It's the pro that he goes to school three four years and he has a heavy two time Power five conference playered a year, he went to three Elite aids, won the Final four, or he went to two Elite aids to Final four. Is one national championship, and he has those other parts as well. He's gonna get a shot. He's gonna get a shot. So like you take somebody

like Luca Dowson who's a rookie. Now, like he he was on the fence. People aesthetically they didn't think he moved fast enough just and the third. But when you look at his resume as a collegiate player, it was heavy. Now, granted, was he a top fifteen pick like you mentioned, he wasn't. He wasn't a top fifteen and thirty. But did he get drafted? He did? You take another version like Tyler hands, where I tease a lot of Carolina players when I tell him, resume wise, he's the best player to ever

played in North Carolina. And when you look at Tyler Hansburg's resume, you cannot fight it like it's true. But did he looked apart this that the third? He probably didn't, But did he still get a shot? He got a shot. So I think to me, when it boils down to the draft, in that process, you're dealing with those two types, and depending on who you are with those types, is

how your process is gonna go. Because you may have to go to Chicago as a fourth, third or fourth year maybe in this case, fifth year senior improve your ability once again. And if you if you go on doing your job and you are who you are, you have no problem with doing that. I think when people short change themselves as they go to Chicago to be all in the videos, but then what it's trying to perform. Oh, I'm not gonna work out. You're like, wait a minute,

what like why would you do that? Like? So that's why I think guys short changed themselves. Man, that's that was a dope breakdown. I think two things. Yes, guys, they sure changed themselves when they don't play, But guys that go in there already with the resume and then decide to play, I think they helped. I think those

guys show basketball people something. I think that that that resonates with Hooper to Hooper is a basketball evaluator or somebody the front office that you're looking at that this guy wanted to play all heat. Okay, you know he's he's he's a little bit of a different breed. The other thing, I also think that some of those guys, especially the top guys, if they go, ah, playing in Chicago gets all these hungry dudes, and you know you're a top guy. You go you will end up getting

looking bad. You look bad, like look them settings are horrible for some guys dog them setting. That's because you you go play against some undersize six one six two guys that can pick you up full and just gonna take you out of your whole offensive package. You can't here to jumper. You're just like, hey, this dude, and

it's front of twenty nine scouts. Man, I've heard I've heard stories where guys actually fail in the draft because of stories like that, and so you know, it's it's it's it's a it's a really interesting conundry when you

when we talk about this this year's draft. I wanted to just find out how much does like off the court stuff, social media, how much does that matter, you know, to a franchise nowadays as far as the representation of that said person, because you have for me, it's like this, when you get these European guys, they're they're messing up the game for Americans because the Euros they do everything. No, they are think about it. There they are they are always doing they see this. They out of trouble to

keep their nose clean. They be in the gym bro They used to that ridiculous three a day. They used to the three a day. So they live in the gym like nothing. So so they're making brothers. They're making Americans look bad with the work ethnic in my opinion, and their ability to conform and just their attitude. Do you think off the court stuff, social media presence, you know, and how people act, players potential draft picks act matters a lot more than it used to. I think, Um,

I think it's rather simple. Does your skill outweigh your problems? I don't think it gets You don't get any simpler than that. Does your skill outweigh your problems? We we could name somebody from even side of the sets. They could be blood or crib, they could be in the they could be magic in mafia, and they can be part of the cool Klux Klan. But if at their position they have a skill level and an ability to do something that very few, if anybody in that draft

class cannot do, there's always gonna be a value. I think we see it in football where guys who they have domestic cases. We've seen cases where people have unfortunately lost their lives, they make their way back to the football fire because why their talent it outweighs their troubles, believe it or not, their ability is gonna be able to draw fifties, sixties, seventy thousand people to that football

arena to see them perform. And when it comes to the basketball court, whether we want to accept it or not, um, same rules apply. I think in a society where you know, twenty years ago marijuana was completely completely frowned upon, and we probably did see some people draft stock drop, if not get picked at all, because again what their skill wasn't better, you know than their problems the kind quently

they didn't make it. But I mean, let's let's you and I are smart enough to know in the history of the game there have been some other advices that people had beyond marijuana that they still staying in the space, and some probably even Hall of Fame individuals, So um, it didn't it didn't matter. So I think now fast

forward things like marijuana, some people may still hold it high. Um. I do think in in the in the women empowerment movement that we're in now, you better not have anything with a with a domestic case, um, anything about any violence towards women. I think it's hard to come back from stuff like that, um, but everything else that probably used to be frowned upon, like you may have a chance. Are you that good? That's that's all you have the

access though? Are you good enough? And if you're not good enough, then no, you're not gonna get a shot. But if you are, you're gonna have a chance. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our is that Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live. I just feel like the way that rosters are constructed in the NBA now has

changed right back in you know, in another time. You know, you always had a couple of roster spots for those kind of goon type guys, and so they eliminated goons on the roster in the NBA. So now no, no, So now you got you got everybody's a ballplayer. You got a bunch of nice guys, nice kids who who who's you know, are magnificent in front of the camera, Understand how to be marketable, Understand how branding works. Seven Um.

Because of that fact, I feel like when teams now evaluate and you correct me if I'm wrong, I think they take all of that into account because it's actually a thing now. So it's now a thing. Social media, presence, brand relevance, branding, marketing and all that stuff. It's it's it's a thing, and you have to look at it.

I would think, and taking into account like if this dude's out here doing crazy stuff on the internet, posting and kind of being flagrant or you know, in any way disrespectful or defends people, I'd like to believe that the team that that would be a checkmark against him, you know, or if he's but telling you he's game score, if he killed he's like, you know that guy. We've seen this culture canceled pretty much anybody, so why would

they be different. I think for the basketball space for both of us, though I don't think you will or maybe if you have someone we haven't seen it yet. I don't believe though, um, of anyone who's made the league off of how you're saying it. I think what we've had, we've had colorful individuals like Nick, like Gilbert who with social media, if they've done amazing things, they're they're great storytellers. Um, they have a sense of humor, things like that. But let's not get it twisted. They're

both killers on the basketball court. We've yet to get somebody to our level. And I love for it that they're in the space because they're funny, because they're articulate, because they have everything going, they look good and they can't play. And that's kind of the story that I was sharing with a lot of parents. Um, because I think that three letter word, that N I L word,

it's a little misleading. Um. I think people worry about quote unquote branding and a lot of those things and not understand before we get to N I L. Before we get the branding, you know, what is your r o I? What is your return on investment as a prospect as an individual, Because if you don't have that, news flash, you don't have a brand, you don't have an n I L come in your direction. Because for someone to invest into you, they need to know what

they're getting back. Now, if you Chris Johnson and your Prime, you had the Curls, had the family up in Baldwin Hills, you had something to sell, then of course we can get this back, so we can give him this. That's cool. But if you don't have anything to sell, that they feel that they can make money off of all these dreams of grant you that you think are in that lane of n I L and this quote unquote brand that people want to work on, but you're not working

on your game. Like all of that I just mentioned, people would get to work on their game. So I think, more than anything, get your game right first. And you and I both know, and you live in l A. There are hundreds thousands of marketing companies that can find a way for you to make money, but your game has to be there first. They're not just gonna market you first. Know that that's a good point. Uh, don't let your focus be on you know, branding and how

you gonna get this next N I L. Deal. I talked to Tyson Wheelie to day and I asked them specifically that he noticed the difference and his guys and he kind of joking. He was like, yeah, guys, try to get in the gym earlier, you know, try to wake up at five work on this stuff, because man, coach, I gotta get this inn I L. And he literally was telling me the players and telling him, coach, I gotta get this n I L. I gotta get shots.

So that gave me a sense of where guys that I looked at U C l A and I see what they're doing over there, and some of the guys in the brand and the marketing deals that they're saying and things like that. But those guys do live in the gym over there. But n I L. I think was a needed thing. It's a little monkey right now. It's not it's the wild wild West is not really regulated. I think like it's gonna be in about a year's time.

But I think it's good for the college kids to receive some type of conversation and it's a step in the right direction. Now. The transfer portal, on the other hand, it's very interesting. We saw, you know, teams in the n C Double A tournament make deep runs with guys out of that portal. Because coaches are in a hurry. College coaches specifically now are in a hurry get old quickly.

They value experience. Does this mean that your three four star five star No, I think five stars are okay, but you're three or two three four star fringe high school recruit now becomes less relevant to the college coach because he might want to go after somebody in the portal that's actually played a year of college basketball against college age kids and proving himself on the college level. What do you think about the transfer proto and its

effect on the college game. I I saw a great tweet by John Lucas the other day talking about this UM and he highlighted that having the championship game, he said there were only two guys from both universities UM that were from the portal UM. I looked back and dug a little deeper of the final four teams, only five players we're out of the portal UM. So shout out to those four universities in in Nova, Kansas, Duke

in North Carolina. And I think that that needs to be highlighted because like analytics UM in basketball, it's a part of the story, it's not the whole story. I think we're colleges and universities are getting themselves caught up. Is they're running to the portal to try to make that solve all its problems. You still have to coach those kids, You still have to get down and you have to trust your staff in who they're recruiting and give it time. UM. We've seen so many UH stars

studded recruiting classes coming to college. But at this point we've only seen one win a national title and that was that Dude group back in fifteen. So at the end of the day, again this is another narrative that's being spewed, But what is the end result, Like, are people winning national titles off the portal? Our teams constantly

going to the final four off the portal? I mean, I know Baylor had a couple of guys from the auto and in um, not Jared Butler because he technically didn't play elsewhere, but uh and Mitchell Mitchell with the transfer, So that's one um, and I'm trying to then go who else? I mean, I know, that's when that comes to mind. I guess my my thing is it's like the high profile nature of the guys that that made

a difference this year in the tournament. So we saw it with Miami, we saw it with Kansas, we saw it with North Carolina, right, I mean that one up, so so we saw that. Sure, maybe not everybody's you know, doing it, etcetera. But it it gives coaches and an option an avenue to go and grab you know, a pactory Player of the Year and you get to bring a guy that's you know, scored almost two thousand career points into your crew. You know, and this kid, you

know turned steps are big for you. You You don't win the National Championship without him, period. I just I mean, that's just I mean, And from my advantage, I don't

think they win it without him. I guess I'm talking in terms of so like, if you're if you're a college program with a lot of resources and you've got, you know, the ability to pick and choose in the portal, that's a lot different than being a college a lower mid major that doesn't have a lot of resources that really, you know, this recruit, this kid in the portal means everything to my program. I think there needs to be a leveling in the portal of the playing field. Of

the playing field. Well, you and I had that conversation before about recruiting and about the level length and how unfair it is, and that is I think we both agreed with the n C double A falls short because you you have these rules that for a high level it's nothing, but to a lower level it could be a little bit, it could be a little bit more strenuous. And I'm thinking about the example you just gave. So

think about said university. Let's let's just use your beloved university, right, Your beloved uni versity has all the resources in the world. So you're telling me that you have all the resources in the world to get not only the premier kids out of high school. And then now you want to run to the portal, Like how fair is that to say at school like a St. Peter's who you know,

shout out to my brother and my family. Uh, all the way in the job that he did, and now he hasn't you know, he has a new address at his university. But the marvelous job that he did at St. Peter's, he didn't have a ton of portal kids. That that was I think that was the purest job of coaching. We saw. We saw the execution in which he performed against the Kentucky's, against the Murray States, against the produce like we saw him executing such a manner that like

it was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. And again I can understand him going to the portal because what he doesn't have the resources that your beloved university has to get the best kids coming out of high school. So I do and I agree with that that there needs to be some type of structural system because to your point, whether we talked before about recruiting or now even the portal, the way that u C l A Kentucky Carolina can operate, it's not the same as u C. Davis Hampton or St. Peter's.

It's just not fair. And that's and that's and that's what I was trying to find out or just get to the bottom of just the definition of the rules associated with recruiting in the portal. You know, I wanted to get insight on you know, do you know how that works? Is is that you treated like a normal transfer as far as contact or is it one of those situations where it's like pretty wide open as soon as it as soon as you jump in there, because

like that, that's crazy, that's crazy. That's that's crazy. Dog. But here's the part that the n C double A can't figure out. We will be lying or we will be naive, that's about away. We will be naive to think that these kids are not being tempered with though easing is going on that if I know you use you know the school that you were talking about, and if you're at while you know, I'm at Washington State.

We missed out on you to come to Washington State, and I'm watching your minute as a freshman, and after maybe five or six games, I got the dummy account. I'm on Twitter hitting you, and I'm like your Chris Man. You know you can come up with this right now, exactly like yo, man, Listen, they're not playing you. You're watching. When we play, you don't even play ten minutes. And

then when we play, y'all, you don't play ten minutes. Now, I've planned to see that any little thing that that staff at u c l A says to you or does to you, you're looking at them with the side and you're growing more angry. Meanwhile, me as the irresponsible adult, I'm doing something that I shouldn't be doing, just because I'm trying to take you away. Now, if I sit back, don't say nothing to you, and then the moment you

hit the portal, I recruit you all over again. That's one thing, But again we would all be naive to think many of these kids are not being contacted the moment people. You've got some kids that when they commit to a school, the school never lets up. They're still on the kid, they're on them, They're on because think about it, Sometimes to these coaches credit they develop a bond with a kid or family because they've been recruiting them so long that they don't let go. They don't

let go, you know what I'm saying. So consequently, when they end up ironically transferring to one of the schools that was recruiting them prior to the u c L A like that, that doesn't take rocket science to figure out what what could have been going on. I'm not gonna say that happens all the time, but very well it could have been going on the whole time. Does anybody ever get knocked both for transfer for tampering? Has anybody ever got knocked for tampering? There? There have been,

there have been some isolated cases. There have there have been some situations, but not enough. I don't think enough. Yeah. But but man, you talk about the dynamic and of recruiting, of how the relationship between the assistant coach and that family and that kid, the bond is developed, how genuine their relationship is, because obviously the dude isn't letting go, so he's gonna continue to work that relationship. Follow this

kid's progress on his in his season. Maybe it's a rival in conference and when he's not balling dog, he's gonna hit him from the burger. I know. But that's facts, and that is when release it. Think about it, How do you police it? And who's gonna who's gonna tell on you? You're not gonna tell on yourself. They're always t yeah. No, the policing aspect, it always alarms me when I read uh stuff on you know, in fractions, cases and rules and I and I see people turning

over emails and text messages. I just I see that. Like Memphis, they turned over a bunch of emails, but they erased all the metadata in the email so you couldn't track it. No, but that's how Memphis gave him. How Memphis gave they gave it to him late, first of all, and then the emails had no man to data. But my question is the policing part. It's it's it doesn't have any easy explanation. It's too crazy, it's too

it's too wide of a scope to pinpoint. You know, we're gonna get this guy, We're gonna get get that guy. It reminds me of when who said Jerry Tarkanian said, when the n C double A is mad at U C l A, they punished, you know, very state or I forgot what the what the line was, but it feels like it would just be that type of situation. Bro. But here's what I don't get. I remember this when I used to apply for my scouting service, and one

of the rules, and this is an actual rule. So to everybody has a scouting service, if you're doing this, shame on you. Stopped doing this. Um, You're not supposed to contact schools on the phone. You're supposed to send your report. You as the scout. You okay, So if you have a scouting service, kJ live West Coast, you've seen your reports all out at one time. Cool you

with everybody you b C C everyone. Cool. But if d Wayne Bruce I picks up the phone and you said later talk to you, you're not supposed to talk to him about a player. Well, the problem I have with the n C double A is how do you police that the Wayne is not gonna tell on themselves. I'm not gonna tell on myself, so not for anohing. I think this is where sometimes the n C double A A miss is you try to, you try to enforce things that you really can't. There you can't enforceable unenforceable,

you can't. So it stings like that that makes no sense. But yet you have this on the books, and that just that's not thoroughly thought out. And it's just it's little things like that that those you and I both know the lifers in this industry. They know every loophole to recruiting, to how to getting around things, to telling somebody's dad, you know, be the AU coach. So now I can contact you before June of your sophomore year

if you're a star studded freshman. So that's another rule, like if your son and let's just shrink his eggs. Let's say your son is one of the top freshman in southern California because you're his a you coach, I can now call you because you're his coach. But any other person I gotta wait because their mom and dad is not the coach. So it's just so many little just loop holes around so many of the actual rules. That's just it. It doesn't even make sense to have them.

It really doesn't. Yeah, it's never really made since I remember when we won the National Championship, and Queen Latifa sent our entire team bottles of dom Perion, every single player on the roster. I'm nineteen, not supposed to be drinking, and it was a thing at school and inflat the department where they're like, first of all, they were nervous about violation. The second of all, they told us, hey, you know what, you guys can have them, but don't

tell anybody. But it So I tweeted about it probably about ten years ago, right, and I literally got hit up by U C l A asking me to delete my tweet about something that happened twenty years Cool, bro, bro. But so my point is, it's like the n C Double A is whack, but it's just the college. The whole college game is a trip. You know what I'm saying that it's a trip, And but you know, I don't know. I don't have any hope it's gonna get

any better. Uh my man, we we don't spend about an hour chopping it up dog with some real heavy heavy stuff. Bro. Uh. I appreciate you coming through, man, and I always love hearing your very mindful and thoughtful, articulate insight on matters related to basketball. Dude, you're one of the best dudes in doing that, and I love having conversations with you for that reason, my man, Dane Irvin, I appreciate you for coming home. My man, I appreciate

you whole heartedly. I can only before I go, I just attributed to too many of the greats that I came across in my own path, and not just on the East Coast. Um, being a youngster coming to the West Coast, Uh Izzy Washington's event at Slaming, knowing that influence that that Izzy had on the West Coast, and I sought to find out more stuff that he did

in the community. Um, people like Ice down in San Diego. Uh, dudes like kool Aid, who's a fellow New York as well, who who's been out on the West Coast as well, doing a lot of great things. So and then even my mentor and probably one of the greatest basketball influences that I've had, um Vincent Smith, who's younger older brother,

Kenney Smith, and he's in California as well. If it wasn't for gentleman like that and and the and the blaze the trails that they blazed, Um, I I myself probably wouldn't have venture down those those alleyways and down those roads that they went to try to seek and learn and have respect again for all coats and all you know, backgrounds and and and choices of life that people have had and and that's brought me to you, That's brought me to these spaces and to reach what

I've reached. So I just want to conchieve to give that back, um to anybody that reaches out, sit down and break bread with understanding the scout space, Understanding dealing with college coaches, understanding dealing with these kids, because I think we don't get enough credit for that, um, including yourself, of we understand kids. We we understand uh kid behavior. So when we get those certain international prospects that they try to tell us he's fourteen and we're like, now

he nineteen. Our expertise with kids that we understand kids. So UM much love to what you're doing. Brother, Um. I've always watched you from afar. I've always had a respect for knowledge is you, but your entire family because y'all are all doing great things. UM, with your dad, with Milwaukee, with your brother and his sense of human and his humor. There's not a day that if I'm not feeling in myself that he does not have a gift, a tweet or something that makes you laugh and sing,

and you know it's gonna be alright. Man, whatever you're gonna do, it's gonna be all right. Shout out to Josiah for sure. Um. But now that that's definitely what it is, all right, my brother. I appreciate you, ladies and gentlemen. Day Irvin, I'm man,