King Josiah Johnson

the goat of Twitter by Lebron James. Please welcome King Josiah Johnson to the show. What's up, Big Joe? I gotta correct you real quick? Half a billion? I do? I do the half a billion in like March and April. So I'm you know, we're putting these numbers out. We're gonna hear about two billion this year. If anything. Bill on the bed. You're not a big deal, nothing to bragg or bust about. Just average you know, damn average twittering.

But you know, because this was so the last time that I wrote your bio out, bro in March when we did our show, you only had three fifty or something. It was something crazy, So you've done You've done that many since. That's real quick talk about just what it feels like to go viral. A lot of us has never gone viral. You go viral every day, probably six seven times a day. What does it feel like, Joe? What is the you know, what is the physical you

know the moments? What does it feel like? I mean, it's like a drug man, obviously, you know, you know, we're in a cannabis legal state. So it's like you take that first hit of the fire, and you know, you're you know, you take the first few hands and couple you know, when you first start smoking, and you got the munchies, and but then after a while, then it's more just maintenance. Like after after after you just get used to hitting the fire repeatedly, just become more

maintenance thing. And now it doesn't really have the same a lord that it used to. Now it's more like I feel like I need to do it, and you're kind of watching it, watching it happen in real time. And I know a lot of people like when they tweet, I'm always constantly refreshing just those first couple of minutes, and I can generally tell now within the first forty five seconds, sixty seconds if a tweet is gonna go viral or not, just bake on like kind of the

immediate reaction on Twitter. But it's still always a great mom and it's always that pressure of the next one, you know. So now it's like, if I got a viral tweet, I gotta worry about what what's the next weally gonna be? Because you know, if if I go days now in between putting up viral content, I'll start to get nervous, start to get jittery, start to get aunty,

like damn, maybe I don't got it anymore. But for me, so I just have to constantly come back to the block, keep bringing the heat always and uh, you know, just keep these flares out. So you you literally feel sort of a pressure when you on Twitter or social media that because you have done so much, You've like scorched earth that so many times, you feel like you can't not do it no more. I mean, you don't want to hang it up. When are you gonna? Are you

ever gonna say? You know what? That's it, y'all got it. I'm just you know, I'm tired of doing this. Ship It's too easy, son, kind of like Hove. You know, when Hove got out the game started doing other things, it was kind of like yo, a bar for bars, Just like, what is it is that? Do you ever start to think of those things? Joe, I'm definitely feeling. I Mean, the problem with me now is I see so many people It's funny of having a conversation with

you know, somebody famous. I'm not gonna say their name, but they're like, yeah, man, I see I see I see all these other accounts trying to be like you, and it's like, yeah, I see that too, but I don't see the bags coming with that. So it's like, you know, you're in this game, and but seriously, you're in this game in this world. Now. It's like I know most of people that work at these companies, and you know, I know that they're getting told, oh, tweet

like Joe Side. But it's like you can just hit yo side and give him a bag and he can help you with your infrastructure, your strategy. But you know, like like we talked about before, it's it's the thing I always say if I was like a five ft seven white dude, nerdy, corny white dude tweeting at the level that I'm tweeting at people to throw millions of dollars at me, gave me my platform, really let me

do whatever I wanted to do. But because I'm a six or seven black man former hooper, they look at it's like, well, damn shit, or what he could do it? I could do it too. There's nothing there can't be special about him. He's just a big, dumb, dumb animal former athlete. I really feel that because then you know, but constantly like, oh, well, you know, doing nothing special about this. So I see people in its flame and I'll see random humans come at me. You fell off,

you did this, you do that. And every time I see that, it's like, Okay, fall off on this, fall up on this, motherfucking another viral clip, another lebron quote, tweet minding my business, fall off on that. You know, there's a lot of like you said before, I can't I can't ease up on it now because, like I, so many people who want me to fail. So anytime the tweet is not at the level that needs to be at, it's a bunch of negativity and hate. And I see all that ship man, I see everything that

goes on on my social account. But I also you know, I love the support and I love the people that rock with me. But you know, it's like, you could get five hundred positive comments, five people, you can get a Lebron quote, sweet, But I'm more fascinated by the three or four people who hate it or tell me

I'm a cornball or whatever whatever. But then I'll click on their profiles and see what they're about, and you just really see the pain and the jealousy and the frustration in their heart that they can't really perform at a level. And this is, you know, not to compare myself to Lebron at all, but you see it. Lebron can put up a tweet about opening up a new school. Hey, I just donated a five million dollars a charity, and immediately the comments, how come you donate six million? We

didn't open up to schools. You were fraud You did this, you did that. Your rings don't count, bubble, And it's like you just see the hate of misery and bitterness. And the funny thing is a lot of people don't realize that these troll accounts. I'll literally stalk these troll accounts and I'll just hunt them, and I'll see the way they talk, in the way they're tweeting, the way they move, and it's like, I know exactly who the

funk you are. I don't know exactly who you are, don't know exactly why you're so frustrated because your boss is telling you to do the same exact ship you can't. Oh so you're figuring out who people are. Yeah, I mean when people talk reckless and crazy to me, Chris, you know, as a Johnson growing up at Los Angeles, we don't really allow that that kind of time foolery

to go down. So anybody who's talking reppers or wild or out of pocket, definitely, you know, it's like, oh shit, if this becomes an issue, I need to know who this is. This person. Things they're they're moving with the mask on things, they're moving in silence, but they're misspelling the same word the way that they do on their regular account. They have the same Cadens, same sense. Caden's on the burner accounts have on the regular cog that's

rough dog. And it's like, okay, because I don't even breathe this ship, but Joe, I'm playing Look what I am glad and proud about, Uh, the way you handled a lot of this stuff, and the beginning when you first jumped on here and you got active on Twitter, you used to, you know, address every single person and every single comment. And I used to just I used to find myself scrolling through for hours just why reading

your comments, addressing every single person. And then but at you got to the point we were like, yo, I'm gonna let it go. Um like you know, I'm moving on. You seem that you started operating a higher plane. And then fast forward to that moment that night, that day Lebron jumped on your joint. I mean it was sort of like the culmination. I think if you would have kept your original course, you wouldn't have opened up your

total potential as a social media guy. You put your stuff to the side, and then man, it culminated with that Lebron tweet and now he's ultimately co tweeted you a few times after that. Talk about though that moment, because we have been Lebron fans for a while, we have been you know, you have wrote a show basically based on his basic a character was like you know, Lebron Lover or whatever. Talk about the moment with Lebron finally, Uh, I hit you on Twitter, as you know I was.

I was a little disappointed and almost to the point of disrespected that Lebron wasn't rocking me considering how hard I'm rocking. You know, it's two three chair. You see, it's been a lot of Lebron, and there's been peaks and valleys, and obviously I think about the old days in the battles with the Kobe fans and the MJ fans, and you know, Lebron joining the Lakers and kind of

putting the end to all that type of ship. But for me, the moment of validation June one, obviously a moment that were living in for me in the history of Josiah to Twitter, watching them watching the Nets game, minding my business, you know, was was using the facilities? Were you taking it? Was? Literally? Had I got a pastrami sandwich from g MLOs in burd Bank. Anybody who's ever been there, no sandwiches are fired. I literally my eyes,

My eyes got bigger in my stomach. So I asked for a bunch of extra peppers and pickles, and Ship said I would normally do outside my eating comfort zone. So I'm after create before the game, just firing up, you know, the hallepinion, little green peppers, onto the sandwich, eating it delicious. And then right around the fourth quarter, late in the fourth stomach starts bubbling, running the bathroom. So I'm using the facilities while it's happening. Got the

door crack. My wife is giving me the play by play, and she's like, yeah, br Bruce, wait, she's giving you played by play. Why are you take it through the door crack because I'm about twining while I'm going. You know, they're all conditions, like there's no excuse, no. You know again, if you're in the Johnson family, you know that whatever there's you know, there are things were getting off and

started their dad, and you really trickled down that. You just have to become used to certain saying yeah, whatever's going on, that's a part of it. But she's getting me to play by play. Yeah, Bruce Brown, he missed the floater. I'm like, oh, let me fire off this. You know this, this this Harlem nice clip, real quick,

put that up. I come back that thing. And like I said, I know in the first minute minute if her tweets gonna perform or not that thing is hidden is going by, had like a couple hundred retweets when the first minute, I'm like, okay, it's just about to go. Next thing, I know, I'm scrolling and I see uh Lebron's you know, Abby show up with the check mare. I'm like James, so I click on it and literally,

you know he's cracking up. We go back and forth the ends of calling me to go, and I think at that moment and I knew, like, I love like ruining my hater's life, Like there's nothing that makes me happier than when when my haters see some some great ship happening for me. I know how visible they are. There's a lot of people I don't even know. That's the saddest, funniest part about it. A lot of people who literally they would have came and reached out to

me and ask before advice, asked me for help. You know, I'm always fucking willing and able to get my tone to people, come and prove them if I see them actually trying to get to somewhere. But you just know that moment the level of hey, I knew right there. I told my wife, like, damn, this is open Pandora's box because, as you know, Lebron would go but people don't rock with him like that. So when Lebron fun with things, they'll deliberately go out their way to hate.

And I do. I do with a little hate obviously going into the finals and a bunch of loser Wienny kids talking shit, and my thing is, you know, Chris, what I've learned from you is like, if you're gonna say whatever, say it, but be ready for what comes with that. If you don't, don't be a bit about it. Have heard you know what I'm saying, Like, if you're gonna talk reckless and crazy, put your name on it. And that's the thing I browed myself. And I know you do a well my counts, but we're not really

hiding behind burnards. And if I got some ship I need to say to you, I'm gonna say it from my regular account. And we could do whatever, because it's definitely we will cross paths, and whenever that situation happens, what you want to do and I may win, I may lose, whatever, but it'll be whatever you want. We could do whatever you would like. Man, it gets real

out here in these Twitter streets, bro. But again, Joe, the way you the way you did it, the way you've handled everything man, including the trolls and the people that attack you on the daily basis, I commend you. It's another reason why I wanted to talk to you, especially about I noticed that you did a podcast recently about toxic masculinity in social media and how to use social media to combat that. Just sort of God, talk a little bit about what that is and how you

use social media to combat toxic masculine. And I think growing up in the world and environments that we grew in, and there was a ton of toxic masculine, and you think about going to places like Cranshaw or you know, playing in Los Angeles, all the stuff that goes on as a kid, just a lot of bad habits and Nazi things that were kind of brained on. Especially you know, I used as an example just my approach of women's basketball when I was younger and not really having that

that respect. And I look back at myself and I look at these comments now from these idiots and these assholes who don't have anywhere near the skill or the town level that these women have, and just the negativity that was always you know, as male hoopers were always oh, you know, nobody could be on our level. But now just the respect and admiration and the ability and the

connection I've been able to make in that space. And obviously you're doing a ton of work, you know, and and girls and women's and women's sports just throughout your career. But obviously seeing that now and realizing that you can

change the way your mentality and your perspective was. You know, back when we're playing at U c l A, it was kind of a negative connotation towards the women's squad or what was going on at w n B A, where now it's like, now I want to be embracing and be a resource, being an ally and really use

my platform as much as I can. I connected with a ton of women in the w n B, A tonne of women playing in college, Like, look like you may not have the biggest following right now, but let me use my my my resource on what I've been able to do to help you and help promote your guys brand, help be an advocate and the ally to the w n b A and other things. I think you know, those are mentalities that are stilled on us.

And we're seeing lot of that even nowadays with like some own bios and ion real Sokka and what's going on with the mental health component, you know, and back in our day, and I've seen both sides of it. But yeah, it was like you weren't you know, you're you were You were told basically to put that aside and be tough, and you know all this stuff we've seen now that you know, suck it up, you know, whatever, you're not you you weak or you're soft or whatever.

And it's like, nah, some of the type of people I know have have mental health issues. I have mental health stuff that I deal with two And you can't be afraid now to open up about that and stuff

and just and just really communicate as man. We're always kind of taught to keep that ship to yourself, and you know, but then that birds inside of you and then it ends up, you know, coming out in ways that aren't really negative or you know, aren't really positive or ways that to really help you improve as a

human being. So at getting older now, pushing these forties and just live in life and honestly dealing with everything I dealt with from the social side, the troll side, you know, the people with the hate and the negativity and just you know, wishing cancer on your family and I hope you die, and all that other type of ship that I see in a pretty much daily basis really made me strong at the point where I don't I'm not afraid to just be who I am, you know,

talk about the things that interest me, support people that that deserve and are really warranted to have that support. I think one of the biggest things about stuff like toxic masculinity and and and men and males and sports is it's a generational thing. So for instance, my generation, this toxic masculinity was something that was encouraged. It wasn't frowned upon exactly. You know, you you laugh at it.

You're the cool guy in the locker room. If you talked about women in a disparaging way, you talked about your sexual conquests in a boasting, short of way, it just bigs you. Being a piece of ship was actually looked at as a positive. And you saw a lot of movies. You saw it in movies, You saw it in depictions of all types of characters that we look back,

you know, look, for instance, pepe le pew Uh. You know, he's basically, you know, hugging on that chick and just pushing up order and she's just trying to get him off. But it was like it was a cartoon back in the day. But like later on they meet too, Pepula the pew. With all that to be said, Joe, when you have been in something has been ingrained in you and your culture and your generation, it takes an undoing.

So mental health issues, so toxic maculinity can be viewed as a mental health issue, like you are, you're looking so so basically we need that needs to be I think not enough is done to address and do the undoing part of things for folks like myself going, you know, pushing, gonna be in his fifties pretty soon here around the corner, I haven't had, you know. And a lot of it is self help. A lot of it. You got to

identify the problem. You gotta go and say, hey, I need to talk to somebody about this and I need to get myself under control. I wish there were more resources for men like like myself and yourself who played high level basketball on the college level to deal with stuff, to help us transition into our adulthood. But again, a lot of it is on the individual, and I agree with that definitely for sure. I mean I think, look, it takes a lot to admit and acknowledge anybody. Nobody

likes any when they're wrong. Like look at Twitter debates and arguments. Nobody will ever be like, oh I'm wrong or just like them. I mean, looking at the ship going down with the pandemic now and people with they're asking nine point of views about vaccines and this that and whatever. It's it's at no point you want to

be told. You know, we're in California. We just had a recallection where it's close to three million dollars for what for Gavin Newsom to do a better number than he did in you know the team, you know what I mean. So this is but this is the reality. And people once they hold onto something, once they believe something, there's really nothing you're gonna do to be able to change it. Select to your point, it takes a lot for any human being to look in the mirror and

be like, look, I gotta be a better person. I think somewhere along my journey, because you know, I've been in those lot rooms as well, and that was you know, that was a running gag in the joke. And I remember in College of sports psychologists hit me up like, yo, if you ever need to talk because I'm afriend, I'm

not talking to you. I'm not crazy, and that's what you think, but really you need those persons to talk to you to get it out and you know, just and that's what I have now with my family structure, people like yourself and and josh Amon the rest of our our family, just to be able to talk to people, bounce ideas off of them, like am I tripping and

you know they tripping whatever? And it's helped me a lot of the human being because, like I said, you bought a lot of that stuff up and it really displays itself in an extremely negative way when you unleash it. And as you know, being to Johnson, we can bottle some ship up and then when it's time to unload, we will unleash and you know, really really just be

wild and regulars about it. But now I think, getting older and obviously yourself, I look at you as a role modeling example is you know, it takes a lot of step, It takes a lot of courage to be able to acknowledge these things and now move on and be better from them. And you don't have to be you know, like like Fat Joe said, yesterday's price not today's price. Yesterday's mentality doesn't need to be today's mentality either.

You can move on and you can elevate. And you know, I'm on that panel I did on talk to mass Lenny. They were talking about cancel coaching all this and that it's like all that ship is a figment of your imagination. I've seen human beings be canceled on Monday. By Wednesday, they're right back and to do whatever they want to do. So that's all just kind of the ship that's social and grains on people, and people need to be able to take the split reality from social. They're not the

same thing. So they look at me and you know me like as this whole thing. I've risen this account of I've tried to stay levelheaded, not drink my own cool. They believe my own height. People call me the king and asked the King it is you've never missed and blah blah blah, like my fuck, you just never I

missed a ton. You just haven't seen it. I failed a shiploading, but from those failures I've been able to build an elevate to get to I want to be because you know, like said, I'm not gonna stay down, you know what I mean. I might be down right now, but I'm I ain't gonna stay down like whatever. I'm gonna try to go get it. You know, Yep, yep, no man. That's and and this is These are the type of conversations I think that we need as males,

we need as men. We need to spend more time addressing because we have we have a lot of young, impressionable youngsters basically listening to us that that you know, subscribe to your content, listen to my stuff, watch our videos, watch our stuff. So the messaging has to be one of hey, you know, you know that stuff ain't cool and I realized that. And I want to ask you this, do you think when you became a dad and fatherhood

did that sort of change your mentality at all? Because I know when I had little girls and daughters, I started to kind of look at things through a different lens. Did you yeah? For sure? Boys that I go back and wink with the way I was before kids and know why I am now and they definitely changed. I mean they with your patient as your home, mentality, how to approach things, and now just being responsible for another

humans life and well being. Right, you know when when the baby first comes out, all my friends, my male friends who are about to have kids and ship, and it's like it's not really gonna it's not really gonna change. For you're gonna notice the hormonal changes in your and your wife or your girlfriend, whoever. You're gonna see that. But once that baby comes out, then it's like you gotta lock and low because now you're responsible for this child for the rest of his life. It's well being,

it's health. Now became less about me. There were times, you know, pre kids, when I have a quitter mentality or just give up and not give a fuck, you know what was me type of you know, just approach to life where it's like I gotta feed these children now and that's the ship that drives and motivates me and everything I do now, Like I gotta do your point. I'm not gonna waste my time going at people who don't rock them. You don't rock with me, I don't

rock with tons of things. Don't You don't see me talking about how much I hate this or hate that, or then this sucked, or that I stopped worrying about other people's art, creativity, blessings and all that other ship. And that's when my life got so much better because I know, now I gotta worry about these kids, and I gotta feed them, and they don't want to hear no excuses. They don't want to hear whatever reason I didn't do this or couldn't do that, or couldn't couldn't

provide for them, Like that's not on the table. So everything I do now is with that motivation. And that's where you know, I get so spirited and passionate and fiery about a lot of this ship because you know, like you know, when you see people taking your whole style or taking your whole is um now but trying to be buddies with you and buddy, it's like, my fucker,

this is money. You just took fucking food off my table, Like this is now my kids can't eat because you want to steal my ship and try to you know, basically look at the style that I created and not really pay your dues and pay your ties to to the person that's responsible for so the ship really becomes frustrating, especially in the social world. This is the thing I pressed upon a lot of people that look like us, black men and women that are trying to get in

the game. It's like, like you already have a huge following, Like they're just they're just kind of mystique about social where if you look at the highest level, it's a lot of white people in positions that they candidly don't earn, Like you know, I'm looking at the social game and if you're like, like, if you had to pick between who who you want to be a VP of your company or who you want to do this or that, the person with a hundred any three thousand followers that's

shown that they can get it out the mud and go viral on the owner. The person with like two followers that frankly doesn't know ship can't even build social on their own account. This is not but this is

not how the world works. So all these people get put in positions where their head of this and VP of that and do this and do that, and it's like for what you haven't even like you saw social that you can't even build your own ship, like like you're so good at social that you don't even know how to take all the things that apparently are good enough for you to get these these cushy jobs and applying to your own accounts, How does that make any less?

Like me being a chef, but I cam only a chef when I could fucking do it at my five star gourmet restaurant. When I'm at home in the kitchen, I can't even make a grill cheese sandwich. I don't know how to don't. I don't know how to do this, But you know, give me all the resources and everything. So for me, like you were having kids, really just lit a fire under my ask like I gotta get my life together, gotta get my ship right, because ultimately

they don't want to hear no excuses. And we have that sports background and mentality playing for people like Coach West, like I don't want to hear no fucking excuses. Get it done, or you know, or you fail. That's pretty much it. And that's how I move in shape now in this game. Perspective is everything, man, and and it's just it's amazing to see how brothers change and development evolved. But let's get back to something that you're doing currently.

A lot of people, Well, so we just talked about your Twitter exploits and and for a lot of people, you know, just doing that would be something to hang they had on. But man, you're also you've created a show, an animated comedy series for Comedy Central, Legends of Champion

of Heights. And then on October twenty night, you're a writer producer on Colin Black and White, right, and excuse me, Colin and Black and White, which was a Netflix series produced exactly produced by Colin Kaepernick and Avla Duverney, and you're on there as a writer producer. Man, that must have been an amazing experience. To talk about a little bit about working with Ava, Michael Starberry and those big

time people in that writer's room. Well, first, I mean shouts out to Starburry for giving me the opportunity and you know, you know, the love that we are the family have a Starberry. But obviously my my favorite writer in the game. And to see history jectory has been so inspiring since me him for the first time in two thousand nine, knowing how talented he was then and now seeing it all kind of coming to fruition obviously when they see us to get the Emmy nomination that

should have won, but that's neither here nor there. And then you know, partner back up with Ava to do this show Colin in Black and White and obviously shout out to Ava fellow U s l A Brewing, you know, just you know, queen like I can't. You know, it's always like you want to get people with their flowers

when they're a lives. So anytime people ask me about Ava, I always trying to make sure to do that because her giving me the opportunity, she did not have to do this, she didn't have to bring me along with this thing, and to let me be a part of something I feel like it's really just gonna be, you know, historical in terms of what it's gonna be able to do and accomplish with a tremendous experience. And obviously Cap the thing about Catman, I was rolling with Caps just

six teen when that first thing started. I remember, you know how I think he started his his protests initially in August, he wasn't really trying to draw attention to it. Eventually, through some some various factors, including Steve White, shower at NFL Network was another person I rocked with heavy. You know, I got brought to light and then kind of you just saw his career, just get this mantled and get black balled and just blatantly just mistreated by the NFL.

But I remember, and I went to the Comedy Central Emmis party, which was in like early September, literally, and

we're Raiders. Families were Raider's family, were Raider's household. But I'm out there rocking the cap jersey and the American flag pants just in solidary and supports And I don't even know Colin at this point, but I kind of appear in a similar situation where you just get fed up with the bullshit that's going on in the world, especially as black men and women and the way we're treated.

But we know we're respected to be here for people's entertainment, and then how dare us have to, you know, complain about anything going on in the world. And to see the way that Conlin was basically just shipped all over by mainstream media. Oh, he's disrespecting the troops, he's disrespecting

the veterans, he's disrespecting the police. And to see how these things are played out in the last five years, and how this a blatant amount of bullshit from those same exact people who disrespect the veterans, disrespected military, really disrespect the police. You're talking about capital insurrection and literally trying to overthrow a government because you weren't happy that

democracy didn't work in your favor. You know, you weren't happy that everybody was able to use their votes to vote on who they to vote for and to see

that ship play on in real time. And this hypocrisy and even situations now going on with like the vaccinations in the NFL and guys, you know, holding this anti vax stance and you know, I'm willing to die for this anti vax stance, but not for a fellow, one of my my brothren in the league who literally was blackballed, included against my NFL owners to not be allowed to do what he was very good at doing. And people kind of say, oh, well, he he was trash, he was this he was at I mean, give me a

fucking break. I've seen the number of starters and players that have gotten to look and gotten multiple looks since and you can't tell me that Colin isn't one of the top thirty two quarterbacks in NFL. I'm not saying he's the best. I'm not saying he's the worst, but you can't tell him he doesn't deserve to be on

a roster. So to be able to have Colin, you know, come in with us, sit in a room with us, and just be able to see him, talk to him, ask him questions, asking about all the misinformation on the bullshit going on, Hey, did you really even want to play this that in the third and to see the way he responded that, and just even though we were actually with Colin he came in the it was like, I think, no, we're like nineteen ish. I told were

November twenty nineteen ish. He came in and actually the day he came in, he found out about that workout in Atlanta, and just to see, you know, how how happy he was, how excited he was to really go out there and show it. But even us in the in the writer's room just know it, like, man, you know this knows like some bullshit dog like like that you're doing a workout for all thirty two teens doesn't really make any sense. I've never really seen that happen before.

It just seemed really fishy. Didn't come to find out obviously, the league and put a bunch of bullshit and paperwork in the contract about you know, him with the workers com Ship and now that he wouldn't be able to super collusion again, and it's just like this is just a sad state of a fairy, but this is where we deal with his black men and women in this country.

And then obviously from that to see the George Floyd situation, the pandemic start and just now people see it in their eyes, and Christian, you and I both know, like I saw a lot of bullshit and I actually lost a lot of respect for people that have respect for just to see how they moved during you know, the George Floyd, you know, peaceful protests and how they moved

with Jacob Blake. It was just a lot of fake, fucking pandering and you know, just oh, I'm really you know, we want to do more black projects this and there're like, yeah, this should last a month. I don't believe any any word of what you're saying. And me it really like, you know, I kind of lost my mental sanity for a while during that time point the pandemic, just all

the ship going on. But just to know how frustrating it is still when it was, oh, we're gonna we're gonna do better, we're gonna make an effort to really, you know, diversify, and it's like, all right, we're tired of doing that. It's been a month. I'm sucking exhausted. Back to we tried. We hired a couple of blacks. We just found some blacks on the street game jobs. It didn't work out like lo and behol shockingly, and you know, we tried, So we're gonna go back to

whatever the status quo is. What about what about those that would say joe to to your to this point that you know, before in our country, nobody, no companies was doing nothing like this. So maybe if it's a little bit better than nothing, I think if you have to realize the motivations and intentions. I don't think companies were doing this because they cared about diversity and they

cared about black people. They were doing it because, oh, when other people are doing this, they're getting a ton of likes on those posts, they're getting a ton of retweets, they're getting a ton of engagements, and we still sell the black people, so you know, we need to pretend like we give a funk at the highest level. No, my friends don't care about about about improving and advancing. I mean I tell people candidly, Look, I'm heavy and

social media uh NBA NFL six seventy percent black. Do you feel like social media teams during that sixty seventy percent black range, you'd be lucky if you've got ten percent Black people represented, you know, in a lot of these spaces. And but this is how we're meant to look like we're not mentally capable to talk about the

things that we know. But you constantly see a lot of these social platforms literally just stealing black culture, stealing black verracular and operating honestly the in digital black face where you know they're they're white. Employees will start talking about dripping swag and blah blah blah, and it's like, motherfucker, I know the fucking person you stole that ship from.

I know the person you stole that from. I know when I see one of my my black friends post a hot tweet, Oh, this is gonna end up on a major account with a couple of words changed around. I've seen it happen to me personally, and these are the people that get to dominate these spaces. The same thing with the leagues in terms of representation at the

ownership level, at the executive level. It's like, you know, we seeing I think we're one short of the record for a black coach in the NBA going into this season. But why it takes so long to get to this point,

you know what I mean? And why you know, when black coaches are giving these positions, they're not giving the rope and the opportunities to look at the NFL, like there's no shortage of white coaches who've been regurgitated all types, you know, multiple head coaching jobs and proven that they don't have the goods. Or I look at a guy like Eric the Enemy and everybody, oh Andy Reid calls the plays, and I look at all Belichick's disciples. What

Belichick not calling those plays? But those my fuckers getting head coaching jobs out to ask. So it's always just this double standard of everything going on the world, where black cip constantly are good enough. We should just be happy for whatever we're getting, and it's like, man, fuck you, we were we we we make this circle. We are we are the reason that all this stuff is able to exist. You know what I mean. You look and I love the way that guys like Lebrian and k

D and Stephan, these guys move. Now where it's like, funk you. I'm gonna control my own narrative. I don't need to rest on you guys. I can start my own media companies. I can do all the same ships you guys are doing and hire the same exact people you guys are hiring, and do our own ship now. So I think you know we're seeing really it's like a great moment, especially for Black American in this country. But we can't let that slip away. We can't take

the foot off the gas either. You know. We gotta keep keep fighting for what we believe in and keep fighting for those opportunities. And that's like I told you before, That's like if I was putting up the numbers I'm putting up, but I'm a five foot seven white dude, I'd be ordained. That's the greatest social media mind of this generation. Here's ten million dollars. Start with whatever you want to start, do whatever companies you want to do. Fail as much as you want. You failed head here there.

We gave your promotion for another bigger, better company ship that we see on the other side very very frequently. But again, because I'm a six or seven black dude that used to hoop, you know, I'm not respected. I'm just I'm mean boy, like oh, he just makes memes like nah, I do a little bit more than that memes. Honestly,

you're about ten percent of actually my workflow. Do a lot more than that, and and try to be you know, growing up in the Johnson household, we had a premium was put on education from from you know, Dad, all the way down, like you you gotta be smart in this house or you're not gonna be respected. We're watching Jeopardy going hard at each other. You know what I'm saying. We're we're noting will of fortunate as much. That's not

really a thinking man, Yeah, that's not. It's complicated as a rapid fire que and that it's like when anybody can figure out a word puzzle out when they get the guest a letter. We're going hard on this ship, reading almanacs, reading all types of ship to gaining knowledge, you know, being educated, being an honors classes, ap classes, just performing at the highest level, but for some reasons like oh, when you play basketball, so you're not intelligence.

It's like, no, my fucker, I did that, and I can give you buckets on end off the court. Final thing about cap um, what do you what did you learn about the man Colin Captant that you didn't know before? I think seeing Cap and you know, I've done some research on Cap leading up to it, and obviously Starbury told me I was working on the gig. I felt son dead to him. I put like a whole huge research packing together, did as much of a deep dive as I could just to find out about his life.

A lot of people don't realize they see Cap now and it's kind of like, well, you grew up with the two white parents in a in a suburb, where do you have to complain about That's kind of even

from the black community, you see a lot. Yeah. I think looking at Cap is like, you know, with the show really highlighting this high school experience, that a lot of these seeds were planned early on, and you had a kid that you know, struggle with his identity growing up in an all white family, growing up in Central California, which anybody who knows anything about Calli, you know, Central Cally is the red area, right, Like you know Colin saying he he lived five minutes away from the grand

Wizard of the clan, like knowing these type of things, but you know, knowing that because he was great with with his athletic exploits, that people look look past all that type of stuff. But Colin at a very early age had a thirst and a knowledge. I want to learn about his culture, his blackness, and really discover who he really was, which is situation that we're beyond his control. Obviously being adopted into a white family, not not having

access to the type of situation. But as you start to read, you start to learn knowing that, damn, I'm different. Like you know, I got a white brother and sister and two white parents, and they treat me like a son and they love me like I'm family. But when we go to places, I'm getting stared at and getting sneered and getting you know, the racial comments. And again, growing up in Central Calli is not the same as growing up in Los Angeles. You know, don't let the

election fool you. You start making that drive to go up to the bay whatever. You know, you pull over them gas station. Sometimes you like this is not this is not for you, but so for him, just you know, his experience in high school and what a lot of people don't realize about Cap is that he was kind of always the underdog. He only had one college scholarship offer coming out of high school and at one quarterback offer, and that came literally as a result of a basketball game,

like he he bawled out like Nevada. I think Nevada coach just came to check him out. He had been in their camp or whatever they he was on the radar. But that song played basically in a basketball game, was like, look, even don't work out his quarterback, we can get this guy in another position. Like he's a fucking just talented as athlete and Colin, to his credit, I'm a quarterback.

I want to play quarterback. So if you knew how much he loved the position, how much he sacrificed to be a quarterback, and then when he got that opportunity in the NFL leading to the highest level, and it's like, you know, people will shoot on Cap and you look at Jimmy Garoppolo, who's in a similar situation led the Nine into the super Bowl. Then you have a shitty year and it's oh, well, you know the team wasn't good,

like cap deal with those same exact ship. You know, when you look at the Chip Kelly years with the Niners, people people act like they had a super Bowl level squad every year and he just wasn't performing as a quarterback. It's like, now, look at some of those teams he was dealing with injury, he was battling there. There's a reason he had a flu, which we've seen from pretty

much any quarterback you can think of. Right now, I'm looking at the Manning broadcast on you know, Monday Night Football, like their career is just more perfect all the way through. Payton has some downtime. I'm not comparing Colin that Colin and Payton or Colin Eli, but just to say that guys go through down periods and it's not like we just throw them, throw them to the side, like we allowed them to come back given the resource they need. And now when you get that squad that can perform, well,

it's not always just on you know, the quarterback. But they'll look at the win loss record, those type of things and not acknowledge, Oh, the line wasn't as good as it need to be, the receiving corps wasn't as good as it needed to be. Well, well, well, I'm sorry to cut you off with Joe. I see it all the time that in no offense against Josh Rosen.

But I've seen people make this excuse for Josh Rosan and like every single stop of every year of his career where his offensive line wasn't good, and look at his defense and give him a chance. All he needs his reps. But then you see the black quarterbacks typically you know your boy Dwayne um Haskins in Washington, remember him, Remember how they get they severed ties with him after

just nothing. But I've noticed that trend, and so for me, it's like I thought it's supposed to be about who can play the position um and seems like the black quarterbacks are evaluated differently than white quarterbacks. I remember you did that piece, you produced that piece at the NFL Network a long time ago, when you're talking about guys like Mark was at Myron bisco Marlon Briscoe, Marlon Briscoe, the legend, the magician. But you look at I mean

you know, and that's the whole thing to you. Look at the NFL right from like ninety six, there were no black quarterbacks and then felt let alone black play, you know, gentleman's agreement, no blacks allowed. Look at the SEC with schools into the seventies even early eighties weren't working with black people at all. And then now coming revolutionized position, you think about people like James Shack Harris and Marlo Briscoe who you mentioned, and just you know,

Willie Thrower and guys that didn't get those opportunities. You know, you look at Marlin story. Marlin fucking was you know, I think she could have been Rick of the Year or like finished second whatever came in. But literally the amount of variables it took for him to get into the Broncos line up as a quarterback. Then he gets out there and dazzles and literally never plays quarterback again after that. You know. But just this is the world

that goes on for for black quarterbacks in general. So to see the way Colin is like, oh, you're ungrateful, You're up to the you know, you're up to the N word, because because you now want to bring attention, are you just do it because you're not playing like whatever the fucking factors and variables are we talking about Magic Johnson all the time? Who we're revering our household. I'm fairly confident of Magic didn't get HIV, he wouldn't have been such a big advocate for HIV and the

Age initiative. You know, you look at Michael Vick and the Dog Fight, and you can think whatever you want about Michael Vick, but if Michael Vick hadn't went to that situation, his life and perspective wouldn't have changed for now him to become an advocate and go out of his way to use his time and celebrities influence to bring attention to situations that go on there with with

animal mistreatment and things like that. So whatever were the factors of variables, I'm gonna type of human being, whatever that that ship doesn't is irrelevant. It's it's a matter of what you accomplished and what you're trying to do and use that platform for. And I think what we saw and what Colin helped really engineer and bring life to and bring attention to is a lot of the

bullshit that goes on in the world. Again, a lot of the people that were saying he's anti this and anti that proved themselves to be the exact same thing that they were accusing him of when she didn't go their way. I had to listen to people like Tommy Learn said that the Capital insurrection was just a bad day, like, you guys try to overthrow the fucking government? What was Chris? I was back in New Jersey with my mom recently.

We went and saw Bonnie Watson Coleman, who was a congresswoman, and she's telling us what that experience was like, being stuck she was in the capital with that experience was she was she scared for her life? Did you get assensed that she was scared for her life the way she was telling the story, She she was somewhere else, and she was basically, let's go to the capital. It'll be safer there. Kind of they've gotten wind of what

was going on. So she went actually went to the capital, but to have to sit there and be in fear of people who were mad because democracy didn't work in their favor. And these are the same people that say this is not a big deal, and that's not a big deal, and why are we doing this? And why do we need vaccines? And I'm gonna take this fucking horse tranquilizer or whatever. It's just such an assinine perspect in the world. And this is what I always trying

to explain. It's like it doesn't you can't think about it rationally. You can't think about what's right or wrong because people, even when they're presented with the option for right or wrong. People new slavery was wrong. People new segregation was wrong. People knew the Civil Rights air and all the ship was going on. Fucking water holes and black people just for for one to sit on the bus equally that you know. But they don't give a funk and they never will, so you can't really worry

about them. The only thing you do is defeat them. The only way you defeat them is by being successful, getting your bags right, really fortifying your crew, and having enough resources at your discloser to be able to combat all the negativity and bullshit going out in the world. Absolutely absolutely appreciate that. Man. We're feared a little bit, but it's all great. No, no, but it's good stuff. Man.

Sometimes these are these are the topics that conversations bring up and bring out of a person, especially someone like yourself, is very passionate. And when you hear that, when you hear the passion, Yeah, man, I'm looking forward to seeing this Kaepernick project because if you bring this type of passion to writing, Josiah, this is the type of ship that you know, makes for just unbelievable genius work level

because you care and so that's what matters. But man, this other thing that you're doing, Bro, you was back in New Jersey or you was back East with your mind, but you did the Prolacrosse Situation League, Premiere Lacross League. Talk about how you got involved with the Premiere Lacrosse League and what's up on Lacross. I mean I heard, you know, I did a little bit with it, but I have no idea what that sports about. Well, you know, shout out to the Leven, the legend, Trevor Trout, you

know USC legend. But uh, you know he connected me with with the league. You know, they were interested in doing some stuff. They around in San Jose for their All Star game back and like me and July So reached out. Man. Honestly, I'm and I told them the same things, like we just didn't have a cross out here. But you know, if we did, my body might have around. You know, you might have seen the really doing work. You know, you're talking about Jim Brown and arguably the

greatest of cross player ever. And just you know, the Crosses saw some other ship. Man. I didn't really know a ton about the league initially, but anything I get involved with I do a ton of research. Took a deep die. So shout out to the Rebel Brothers Mike and Paul, Paul who just actually recently retired, you know, after I think like a fourteen year career pro but help. So basically, these guys are playing in another league. Brandon,

the situation wasn't that good. The Rebel Brothers are like, fun, this, we can improve it started. The Premier Lacrosse League brought a lot of the high level talent. It's it's a different league and unique in the fact that these guys now get equity in the league and they have a vested interest in the league success. And they basically barnstorm. So they've got eight teams, but the teams have no city affiliation. They all traveled together across the country week

to week, playing in different cities. So just even that perspective kind of like the Big Three in terms of how its structured like that, but getting all the best high level across players and meeting guys like Miles Jones and Jules Hanningberg and fucking huh Romar Dennis and just like guys that are a part of the league that you know. You see these like six ft three, six ft four, like big buff like usually Miles Jones in

real life. You're like, I'm talking to he was, like I played au with Dubias Harrison back in then, Lie, I know you did. Bro. You're out here. You could be a linebacker, you could be anything you want to be. But see them out there, And that's what I was gonna ask you, just about the body builds, Like what athletes would you compare lacrosse players to, like what positional like point guard like NBA point guards or I mean

you see everything. You see guys build like fullbacks. You see dudes that could literally be like you know, middle linebackers in the NFL, guys are on the shorter side, kind of like baseball hockey kind of different, Like you're gonna get a hodge pods of guy depending on their position. Like they got this one legend who came up with the thick board summer. You know, he's built like literally

straight fullback. But out on the field like you know, it's such a you know, they can move, they got jukes and they can move and like speed, quickness, agility, side to side. That's what matters Joe all that. But they're also like they can pound each other with the sticks at defender to try and knock the ball out of somebody's hands. So they'll be whacking ship out of each other like somebody whacked me like that. I'm not

to put the stick down, the square up. They're going at these dudes, and you know they're there, weren't there, weren't protection everything, but just being able to connect the sports. Shout out to the legend r J two, r J

Kminsky over at uh, you know, Premier Lacrosse League. To me, it reminds me so much of what the NFL was doing back in the early days with the NFL films, And if people look at the success of the NFL, you gotta look at the sables Stephen Head and what they were able to do and making those games feel larger than life like when I was at NFL and

NFL network. I always say NFL could take a game that was zero zero make it look like the greatest game ever played, just with the camera angles, the great voiceover, the god shots, and the Premier Lacrosse League is really

ambinding a lot of that. They've got it like a just an amazing crew of social media people and people on the video production side that that really go out there and just honestly, every game you've got, so every team has like one to two people on the social video side, so you figure you put them all together, that's not sixteen people. You've got it every single game that are just there that love the sport, really building up a strong community. So I did the All Star

Game with them. I'm like, yeah, I want to funk with you. I want to come, you know, like I come out to Philly for the Semize and check you all out there. So I got to go and actually see real games being played. All Star game was obviously kind of you know, dudes were having fun and you know, just just sucking around, but to see them in a high level game, high level competition, like these dudes really go at each other and you know the league is awesome.

They let me get field level, let me get in the huddles like ship that we would never be able to get off in any other sport, but just to see the intensity the fire and also just you know the amount of black players in the league and the Black Across Alliance and what they're trying to do to strengthen the brawn the game. Yeah, you know, there's there's there's a there's a heavy contingent. That was the one thing I do with any sports that that I deal with.

It's like, I need to know what your your black representation looks like. And those are the people that would love to elevate and amplifying edition to have the people in the league. But those are people I resonate with the most, so you know, let me sit down with them. So we've got to sit down with Miles and Jewels and romar Uh in San Jose and just talk to these guys. And it's just like, damn, these dudes are fucking legends, Like just cool, last dude. Everybody in the

league is cool and really bracing of all cultures. I really appreciate the Rebel Brothers for let me even get the opportunity to out there and be a part of it. I hit up Paul Paul retired yesterday, hit him with the d M, just like, you know, I appreciate the opportunity here. He responded right back, like, you know, just thank you and everything you do. I know he's launch an initiative now to get you know, lacrosse goals and underserved communities across the country and really, you know, I

think the sport is burgeoning. I think it really has the potential to be the next big American sport because it has all the fast paced, high scoring, has you know, the big hits, that has a nice juice and nice moves. It's basically, you know, it's like hockey on on on on the grass soccer field. But are committed to the sport. They love it, and you know, for me just to

be a partner, I'm super appreciative. Yeah. I love to see some you know, inner city partnerships or initiatives with kids in the inner city to make you know, equipment more affordable. I would think one of the big challenges with the sport like lacrosse, which is you know, reputation to be East Coast base kind of preppy, you know, high exacuty league sport. If we can get some affordable gloves and the helmet and all that and all that. You know, I think that that's that's ninety of it.

You know, it's just getting enough equipment for all these kids. Dog, you know how that go. You know, the equipment is if you get some cross in the hood, I promise you in the next five or ten years. Because also just a ship from football, it's not it's not as dangerous of sport were talking about the ct and all that other type of ship, but has a lot of the same principles in it. What God trying to shake each other and shake defenders and get buckets on, you know,

score goals. There there's a potential that I feel like, you know, it's another sport that we can just take over and dominate if given given the right access. Yeah. Absolutely, And what's your experience? And I wanted to touch on this because you you have experience at the NFL network. You're pretty experienced in the league. Um, I've read somewhere where the NFL had this like racial norming thing that they were doing when taking into account uh former players

CTE can custious. Do you are you aware of that that what's going on? With that situation. What is your thoughts on how the NFL operates from a business perspective like that. Well, you know, I'm never wanting to funk up my bags, and obviously I got a lot of a lot of great friends at the NFL and NFL Network and I worked there for the better part of ten years. But to see the type of situations that

are going, it's extremely frustrating. I think they initially dropped that one up like that are called like super Bowl. We've been buried it, you know, you know, nobody really heard about it. Then it resurfaced a few months later when they're talking about how blatantly discriminatory they were. So not only do you knowledge that you have CT how fun up a situation is that you set aside a fund for guys to get the help they need. And Chris,

I'll just tell you real quicker story. So I was working in the NFL is probably like two thousand seven, two thousand and eight, there was Super Bowl in Miami, whatever year that was. So, you know, like the NFL, the NFL network was always a hierarchy. So obviously the upper level exacts and like the premium talent, they stayed in South Beach. We stayed across the bridge, like right near the airport. Um, and I'll never forget this. You got the glitz and glamorous South Beach, all these super

Bowl parties, just all the amazing ship going on. We're really staying on like a Marriott right near the airport, and all the former guys have whatever, Like the t g I version, Friday's version of the restaurant is in the restaurant hotel. All these former guys come through like fucking Earl Campbell, dig Bucket, like just all these and these dudes are struggling to walk and fucking it, I'm

going over there. I'm just getting like, got some food to go real quick, and kind of stumbled on like the former player reunion, And just see the way those guys were treated, the guys that literally laid the foundation for God to get these multimillion dollar contract ship broke my heart. Man. I remember just looking at that ship, and I was probably like four at the time, not really understanding what was going on. But now that's take

a look back on it. So to see the way the league is treating players that literally sacrificed so much, players that grew up in this toxic masculinity culture where you know that's not a can cuss your head just hurts, Rub some ice on and go back out there and fucking get us to win. That's the only thing that matters. Hey,

entertain these fans, that's the only thing that matters. So to see these guys now getting mistreated like that, I think the thing was like they treated black players mental capacity at a lower level than than white players, and that was a part of the initial baseline test going in. And to see this type of ship happened in the league and now I's like, oh, yeah, we sucked up,

and believe me, nobody's perfect. But to see the way that the players are treated, and that's not even in the NFL, like across sports, it's like these guys laid to found dation. I think that's even indicative of us as society. We don't take care of our old. We kind of just capt him aside. And that's something. Not to bring it back to this rona pandemic, the coronavirus pandemic, but something that's been so blatany like pissed me off.

It is like are old people are at risk? They're they're the they're the target, you know, sixty five and older, and we don't even have enough love and respect for them to just fucking wear a mask and do simple ship like we'd rather go out of our way. Hey you're old, just stay your ass at home instead of, you know, just caring about our common man. So when I saw the ship going with the NFL, and honestly,

it was extremely disappointed. Like I said, I got a ton of friends there, a ton of people that I rock with in respect, but there comes a point when when this bullshit needs to get exposed. And even stuff as simple as Colin being black Ball for five seasons, you're tell me he's not good enough to be on a roster With all the other ship going on. We've seen guys fucking literally murderers and fucking all type. You know, talk about Aaron Hernan as the ship going on. All

that's good to go because hey, they can perform. We've seen Antonio Brown and a lot of stuff he's done. Well, hey he's good, so who cares. But it's like, what did Colin actually do? Like I mean, it should have been out there punching him in, Like would you like him more if he was rolling around with like a stockpile of guns, like, you know, threatening people. Would you prefer him to get a d y and hit somebody

and you can't? I mean, it's just like what what are you ultimately mad at that this black man who was successful wanted to use this platform to raise awareness and attention to the sugar on That's what you're That's what that was like, Oh, we can't have him in this league. Yeah, anytime any time you speak out against law enforcement, military, I feel like, as an athlete in this country, you're gonna wade in some controversial waters. You've seen it throughout our history. Muhammad A Live is a

great example of how. You know, he speaks out against the war against Vietnam. You know, ain't no Vietcong. They were called me the inn word, refused to go, and now he's ostracized by mainstream America. It's so funny to see Muhammad Ali's just how people talked about him close to his death, and he was revered. But if you you know a lot of people that were around back then, remember what time it was. I got a feeling that same thing is gonna happen with a Colin captant. What

I do think it's it's one of those things. Shut up and dribble. Athletes are to be seen and to perform and not hurt. I really think it has to do with that, my guy. But the crazy part about it, just quickly is that everything was always he's anti he's anti Miller, carry, he's anti veters. Literally, Nate Bowyer green Beret, is the one who told Colin to do this peaceful protests. And that's and this is like when you look at the history and it's like, just look at the simple facts.

A white green beret, white former green beret told Colin this would this would be appropriate way to to voice your grievments in your protests. And now that got fun too. You don't care about the veterans, Like Chris, I live in Los Angeles. I was driving down Savicinti the other day near the v A. What are we talking about? We don't care about sucking veterans. You so many homeless encampments there are across the city of former veterans who are just spit out and shipped on by this country.

And but now because Colin, Kaepernick and Cap put up like a million dollars, are very charitable endeavors when it first happened, and it was like, oh, well that's not enough. It's I'm afraid you don't put up money for ship. And you're trying to tell me a million dollars anybody putting up a million for anything? Oh well he makes x amount and that's this is the ship. And I see it happened with Lebron, I see it have with staff.

I see it having with so many guys when they try to use their platform is basically shut up nigger entertainment. I don't want to hear what you have to say about anything other than put that basketball in the basket, throw that football, help me win my fantasy league. Like I don't give a funk about your personal opinions about anything. And that ship is honestly to me is I've gotten older. It's like this is embarrassing, dog, Like this is you

know what I mean. I see it the same thing in the business side and in the corporate culture, where oh you know, we just can't find talent to black people, like are you looking? And where are you looking? Because I can rattle off thirty to forty to fifty times of black people right now who can easily come in and smash other people's jobs. But they don't want to change, like they rather just put up the black square on Instagram,

do something special during fucking black hairstry month. Oh hey, half off on hot sauce without you know what I mean that that's how they want to operate. So you know, the game is the game. Joe. When I when I listened to you talk, man, I have one thing I want I wanted to ask you. It's like, who do you envision playing the role of Josiah Johnson in your life story if you had a chance, Like who who would be the perfect actor to play Joe at this

in a movie about you? I mean, if Brian Gumble or grand Gumble has any children, That's probably been the most ideal option. I'm trying to think, because you know, I mean, I was, I was, I was plumping my younger life. So really, it's gotta be somebody who could who could throw around weight, like you know, we could make an around over Thanksgiving and put on fifteen pounds and then over the course the next three months drop fifty. You know, you know that that's how we kind of

get down. So it's somebody who who could be really nimble on that side. But uh, Ship, I don't know, maybe Brian Gumble, I'm trying to think, Uh, Kennedy Meeks, maybe I forget. Uh, I could always hear me with fucking you know, just send me photos of people that looked like me. I know, I saw somebody at a JORDI had a volleyball practice over at Merrymountain. There was a guy there. He looked just it reminded me of

me so much. I took pictures of I'll said him, but this is like a couple of years ago, but I do it too, Like I'll see a guy that revised me a year. I like Stafford shot because I know later on I'm gonna show you, buddy man. Uh Man, this conversation has been rivety. Man. I'm gonna talk about though kind of you know as we close it up, Uh, your experiences or memorable stories interactions with the late great Kobe Bryant. So you know, obviously, and this is ship.

I look back on it and really really regret and it drives me just to be a better human being every day. But coming up being a Lebron fan, we used to really go at Kobe fans like it was. You know, there was nasty stood on both sides, a lot of hey, a lot of it are all and you know how much these two dudes loved each other, rock with each other. You know, every year on Kobe's birthday, I posted a clip with Lebron singing Kobe Happy Birthday, just as a reminder that these dudes really really funk

with each other heavy and really elevated the game. And I'm so thankful that. You know, when Lebron decided to come to the Laker in the eighteen that was a you know, a siminar moment for all of us. Let's put our egos, put our differences the side, Lebron's on the Lakers. Now we're we're rocking. Like any you know, I tweeted about this a few times, but any Kobe slander, any negative or anything I've done in the past, that's just all done like nothing but respect for Kobe, his family,

this Lakers organization. And it's funny, man. When Lebron first came, everybody was like, you know, you had a lot of Laker fans that have supported the move, but a lot of them were like, I mean, he just want to be an actor. He's gonna disrespect the Purple and go he don't really want to be here. You don't care about this, you don't care about that. Fast forward to

the year, Our Lord, two thousand, twenty October. In the Bubble, Lebron, you know, helps lead the Lakers are championship, gets that Finals MVP, obviously after Kobe had passed away in January, and even that that moment to know that, you know, hours before Kobe passed, he's literally on the phone with Lebron and some of the guy on the plane congratulating Lebron for passing him, you know, on the all time scoring list, and literally Kobe's last tweet is a salute

to Lebron. I mean that's just for me, you know, I still cry about that ship to this day and just think about how can I be a better person, How can I not get caught up in any of this bullshit? And even like you know, I'll joke around with the m J debates and things like that just to piss off Jordan Fancs. I know they're older and they could take it, but you know, when you look at these guys in their contribution to the game, Kobe, Lebron,

and how much. They just loved each other, revered each other. It really helped me to become a better person. Man. I think about Kobe pretty often, and for me, the highlight of just you know, seeing Kobe and this is funny. I was a Kobe hater at this point. But back in two thousand and eleven Drew League, you know, during the lockout, get a call from our dad, Marcus Johnson. Dad hits me like, YO, come through the Drew League. It's probably like ten am whatever. Come through the Jew

League today. You know, Kobe is supposed to come through, and I'm being an ass. I'm like that, I don't really give a funk, like you know, I'm trying to be cool, sweet guy, like, uh, I'm a Lebron fan. I ain't going It's funny. I think I him my buddy, Marcus Miles Ludy. Marcus spells his name the same way as Dad. He was named after Dad, you know, the legend. Hit up Marcus like, YO, make you go shoot this Kobe game. He's like, no, man, I can't do it. I'm like fuck it. I'll find I'll go up there.

But go up there and just the energy, the atmosphere they were playing at Washington Park still at that point, you know, James Harden was there, DeMar de Rose and just like the young crew of guys Market Banks, other dudes at Davis I believe was out there as well. That that came out. Everybody pulled up to get this moment to go at Kobe and anybody who's been in the Drew League, especially in those Washington Park days. This is not like a traditional game. You got all types

of fan fans on the court. You had dudes holding babies, talking shit. You know, I'm interviewing people for the game, like y'all excited to see Kobe, Like, no, we're here to see Casper Ware and casp where he played a long beach State believe was the m VP of the league. That you're a bucket getter, but they have their hometown heroes. They're like, what we're fucking tripping off Kobe. Kobe pulls up though, ho Jim fan boys just you know, I'm

just just to see him in real life again. I'm moving freely with the camera to the point like the Sheriff's come over and be like, yo, you gotta give Kobe a little space because I'm on the grills, getting the angles. You know, I'm really gonna get them angles and get them get that good b row. Yeah, to see Kobe go out there. James Harden was young at this point, but Harden going at Kobe. They're just going back and forth. And the thing I'll never forget about

that game. You know, Kobe came out, he knew, he knew what it was because Kobe played in the Rugger before he played the other spots. He knew what he had to do. His squads down like eight points with like two minutes ago. It's like there's no way, especially the style in the way that they're playing, Like the game has evolved at that point. Lay in the fourth quarter to just kind of all Star game Demark doing

three sixties without you know, guys just sucking around. Cops come over to Kobe, like, Coby want to want to get you out now, you know, the crowd's gonna be a circus. You know, let's get you to the car. We'll get you out. Kobe looks at the scoreboard like what the game ain't over? Like literally, like you know, he's about to slap the ship out of police officers just for having happening, having the goal, like, are you

kidding me? And I think that little the little fire Kobe's asked, like what, like you think about to lose this ship? So Kobe obviously engineers to come back. He gets the ball in the final possession going that harden,

and I'm just sitting there. I'm sweating at this point because like, you know what's gonna happen, you know, And I'm just thinking about the historical perspective of it, just this moment and to actually be here in this gym in southern California on this day, just to witness this fucking, you know moment in basketball laur in history. Kobe knocks down the fucking game, win her. Whole crowd goes nuts. And then after that moment, this is like two thousand twelve.

So I've got the pan Assignic camera and I've got to transfer the footage over, but I'm missing a chord because I'm like, I'm just gonna shoot the ship. I'll edit it another point. I'm missing a chord. After that point, I'm fucking frankly calling on the homies, like who can I go pull up to? So call my buddy Nolan Martin, who actually worked at k t l A in the news room at that point, Joe my ass over to kt l A and Hollywood was able to transfer the footage over, get the clip out, and kind of the

rest is history in terms of the Drew League. The next week, I think they went and play it against the good Men in d C and kind of just

spawned that. But you know, we grew up in l A. And this time I always have to tell people, like the Drew, the Drew is um hold on a second, yeah, okay, Like the Drew at that point, you know, wasn't the league that people know of now, Like you know, the Joe Weekly League was the premier league back in the day for all the pros and god the playoffs, Joe Weekly, Patrick, the Trashes tragically passes away, and you know, the Drew is kind of the last league standing at that point.

In addition to the Real Run, which obviously had one of the greatest moments. And you know in the history of basketball, they were getting off back in the day, shot off at the Anthony. But now the Drews basically transformed to the premier basketball league. Everybody from all over the country, all over the world tries to come out here and get it. So just to see the way Dino and that crew has been able to elevate that league and obviously stepped up into the moment because a

lot of people wouldn't been able to handle that. And the league just continued to grow. And shout out to Nate Jones and Camon and a lot of crew working on the digital side behind the scenes, all the people are Nike to really elevate and grow this league and do something just tremendous for the community. But really, Lebron came that summer, k d came that summer, but Abe coming that summer put the Drew League on the map and putting on a trajectory now where it's still the

premier league in the summertime. Yeah, I'll tell you, man, when when we talk about Kobe, Man, it's fascinating. When I talked to everyone and I asked him this question. I've asked, you know, fifty sixty people over the last five months just their feelings and thoughts on Kobe, and overwhelmingly the sentiment has been um a lot about a lot of stories that you didn't hear, a lot of things that you don't see, a lot of stuff that

happens behind the scenes. Mark Spears talked to me yesterday about how Kobe was congratulating Mark on his new position when he started joining The Undefeated. But it was on Kobe's jersey retirement night, and Kobe had the you know, the awareness to be like Mark, congratulations on your new gig, you know, in the tunnel, and Marks like, man, you know you did two charges in the rafters, and this

dude is congratulating me. But Monty Jones talked about how at the charity game that they played after Katrina, and I don't know if you remember that, but it was on T and T. It was like but Monty's first gig. But Kobe just made life for him very easy. On the interview, he was intimidating, He was a little nervous,

and this and that. Do you have like did you were you I'm trying to remember because I know we have basketball stuff with Kobe, but did you have any other kind of personal interactions with Kobe that we haven't talked about before that I don't know about, I mean, other than the only thing I think of it to your point, just how gracial, humble he was after that game.

Everybody in the locker room. Again it's the Drew League, so you know, traditional things like that, and like no, I won't give a funk, Cooby, give me this, let me take a pick, come do this, but that wanted to grab a picture with him, so Kobe, you know, just come on, yeah, come on, yeah, come on, the old legend, you know. But him seeing Dad and you know Dad, Dad is a legend. But Dad feels like,

you know, people don't recognize. And remember I got Dad on camera trying to you know, he's kind of edging his way over to Kobe. We're trying to still be sweet. But Kobe sees him right away, what's up? Oh g just gives him love. And for me it was like, you know, I touched my heart because you know, just just knowing that the respect that Kobe had for the

game man. But you know, seeing him play against you U c l A back in the days, coming as like a seventeen eighteen year old and knowing you didn't really give a funk, like you know, you were punky dudes at the men's gym. That was just it doesn't matter of Paul Hears whoever, the funk's coming through there. You know, I don't care. I'm giving you buckets. I'm

going at you. But to see the way Kobe wouldn't back down and at that moment, and that was always my barometer for Hooper's Like if Chris, can you know, not not fucking break them their spirits mentally, because I've seen you break a lot of Hooper spirits guys that you know, I wouldn't think that would get broken mentally like that. And this is a more testament to yourself

as well. But when you would go ahead, dudes, because you didn't give a fun So when you go out doing no situation you have you said late, it's my home campus. I don't give a funk who you are do I'm trying to give you buckets and to just have that you know, it doesn't matter who it was. At the point where magic we have to step in, Yo, Chris, you have Magic Johnson trying to calm you down in

the middle. But just people, don't you know, like these are normal situations that would happen in those games, like come on, Christian, you know, imagice fun your jobs to try to chill you out, but but to see you trying to really, you know, take Kobe's manhood and really punk him and Kobe not back down as a seventeen eighteen year old. For me, it's always just a moment where it's like, Yo, this dude is the real dude.

I don't know how his career is gonna pan out, but I know if he can get past that heardle of deal because I haven't seen you. You have dudes who thought they were tougher ship and they leave that gym literally about to cry. You know, you see you see the bitch in their heart come out, you know, and it's like, damn, I thought this dude was tough

like but but but but I was even shocked. And then in that moment, man, when he was looking at me because like you're saying, well, the situation happened, he had just tip dunked on me and kind of was looking at me. Dad was under the basket and ship and this is under the basket, Dad is just Kobe tip dunk's on me. I kind of look at that Dad kind of like like, you know, get get the side.

I look, and then Kobe was kind of looking behind, like looking running back but looking I was like, oh, hell no, so you know, I just you know, immaturely. I would have run and fight. I would have do all this stuff. So as I'm running towards Kobe, all I see is Kobe right now. All of a sudden, I see Magic kind of slide into the picture. Chris hey Man. He laught my young boy, like, don't do nothing. So I run into Magic and I'm like swinging trying to get Kobe. So then that kind of happens, and

I had a thing against him. Fast forward to my senior year though, I played in the Matthew Johnson Mid Summer nice classic. Guess who my coach was. Kobe Bryant. So I go in the game. He puts me in. I come in as a sub man. I had probably fourteen points and eight minutes, dog busting like three deep threes, you know, dudes trying to guardment. I was just turning the form out. It was like a time out. I'm down at the other end. There was like, you know,

I think a free throw or something was happening. All of a sudden, I hear the whistle. He like gave me the whistle. What you know, look down It was Kobe. Kobe's looking He's on the bench, you know, in his coach with his fro with his suit. He's like, keep shooting that ship, boy, keep shooting that sh it. I was like, I was like, it was one of the greatest moments. It was one of the greatest because this

is Frobe Kobe. So this is like Kobe won the duck contest and just he had just I think grew it out or just something happened, but he was killer and he and he was like, man, keep shooting that stuff. That interaction. He showed me love at the All Star Game in two thousand and one. I believe it was in l A or four. Two thousand and four. It was in l A. It was a big media scrum. He saw me made sure to look in the camera.

I got the footage. But if it's like this big scrub and I'm like next to Steve, I'm like the Stewart Scott and some other dudes kind of hanging over in the scrum, and Kobe made sure to like look at me when he was answering. So he showed me like those type of love, which which also gets comes back to your point about how we we felt bad about all the years that we were lebron fans and sort of positioning our arguments and sort of hating on

Kobe versus really uplifting the guy. I mean, Joe, I'll be honest with you, there's like years of basketball that I didn't watch of Kobe Bryant that I have to go back and see so I can be reminded of like the two thousands, the year he had autumn threes and autumn three forty point games. I didn't watch none of that. Bro. I was like, I'm not watching this. I'm off Kobe. I was mad he left Shock and

he made Shock leave. I was so immature. And then the fast forward to the game against his last game, Joe, I literally I broke down. He hit that last shot Dog, you know, the two dribble pull up jumper, and I just like to start crying, man, because it was just like I was just like I couldn't believe it. I was just in a state of awe, of shock and of just reverence for like truly one of the greatest

to have to pick up a basketball. Dog. That was the first time I felt old, you know what I mean, Like yeah, but really old, like seeing somebody's whole career through from seventeen eighteen years old that dynamics and to your point, still wasn't really a big Laker fan at that moment. But I'll still watch that game and cry because it reminded me so much of the Drew Leigue game man from five years earlier, where it's like, then, there's no way to lose this game. He's gonna go

out on a sour note. You know, obviously Lagers didn't have a great year that season, but all that ship does not matter. You don't care anything about that. And then obviously delivering the speech after with the Momba out and you know, as a hooper and somebody who's building these spaces and done media and ship like that. You know, this is real life, right, no takes like this is just straight who you are and have to go out there, you know, to give a speech after doing all that ship.

But one of the best speechs I think I've ever seen. I mean, this is you know what I mean, Like we do these possible flub stuff all on words whatever, This is like real life. There was no you know, I just had to play a game, bust these dudes asked the last thing I might ever played, and now to give this speech. So eloquently for Lakers fans just to hold on too. And at that moment, I think

everything shifted. It's like, you know, because we were doing the thing we would call him Bryant just to disrespect Lakers fans and get them mad. Everything was Bryant, this Bryant that instead of caring of Kobe, but also the level of respect though it was never it's like you could be a hitter, but I mean, you know, I always have the most tremendous amount respect for when he was able to do in the basketball courting his leadership

and went in the rings. And now to see Lebron following in that footstep of the Momba mentality and Lebron coming through and helping carry that tradition, it's like, yeah, we gotta shut that ship up. That those conversations are over. I don't really when people are like co code, where is Kobe going to go to bate Kobe kind of

on his own thing right now, he's not. We don't discussed like whatever your field, whatever, Like he did whatever you need to do twenty years in l A. You know more than happy calling them to go like that's fucking you know what it is like you know, to see to be able to stand by that franchise. And I had this vision man of him and Lebron when Lebron first came, like hebe could just come back play fourth quarters, Kobe just pull up it like halftime, get get you get sweat in, but we need your third

fourth quarter. Play about get to all the fifteen minutes come drop ten, you know, ten and four whatever. But you know, it would have been tremendous just to have that that level support. You've seen it now with a lot of these old guys that are that on the Laker squad. But you know, obviously you know, unable to happen.

But just just something kind of the back of my head was like, you know, as if a Bron fan would love to see but I would say that they'd be like, I mean, oh I wished up the Bron need. It's like, I just want to see two elite level dudes who together for are you talking about? Those same people have no problem with the dance or the the Warriors super teams or any of that ship. But of course you brought these helps. Oh man, that would have been amazing. Joe, Joe Man, we appreciate you. Man, We've

been going about an hour and ten minutes. Brother, I think we're gonna shut it down here, man. Thank you for your time today, bro. We are looking forward to everything that you've got going uh, for the rest of this year, next year, and beyond. October twenty nine, Colin in Black and White on Netflix, Josiah Johnson, Writer, producer, executive produced by Ava Duverney and Colin and Michael Starberry and that old crew and and everybody over there. Josiah Johnson,

thank you so much, Joe for showing up today. Appreciate you. I look forward to doing more. It is. Yeah, we just need to go ahead, get this ship cracking, because you know, we be veering off topic and ship and just but that's the game. But the topics be nice, the beers be nice. I think we own this stuff, bro. I think we're all the stuffing our bags until the next time. This is kJ Live King Josiah Johnson. We out