Gottlieb - All Ball -guest Michael Roll

Don't forget to download, subscribe, and rate this podcast. By the way, I guess if you're listening to it, you've already downloaded it, so subscribe and rate. During the season, we'll have all the people that you want. I got great commitments to having some other interesting people throughout this off season, which is very short, very condensed, because there seems to be no real off season outside of August in basketball. But I'm committed to bringing people stories in basketball.

If you're listen to this, you probably love hoop, right, you just love it. I would hope you have a ball in the back of your car and some shoes, actually two pairs of shoes. If you're a baller, you got a basketball in your car. Actually check that, two basketballs. In your car, need indoorball in your outdoorball and you need indoor shoes, need outdoor shoes. You probably need some socks, although let's be honest, a baller can play with no socks, or a baller can play with some dress socks. It

doesn't really matter. The shoes are far more important than the actual socks, regardless of which. You're a ball guy. That's why you're listening to this. So with that in mind, I brought you Chris Beard a couple of weeks ago. Got some great commitments upcoming, and I really wanted to share with you Mike roll story because look, it's real basketball. He is a professional basketball player. I'm not gonna ask him how much money he makes, but it's well into

six figures. Heck, might even be close into seven at some point. The point is he makes a healthy living as a tremendous basketball player, having played at U C. L A for five years, a part of three Final four teams playing for Ben hallen Uh suffered an injury, missed the season, got a medical red shirt, came back, and his last year was a year in which the bottom fell out, but he had a tremendous season. Has part laid that into a spectacular foreign career. Does he

want to come back to the States. We'll get We'll get with that. Uh. Does he think he should have been drafted in the NBA. We'll have him take us through the pre draft process of the workouts he had, the things he does to work out now, the things he does to his body in terms of eating and working out, and what he would have done if he went back to high school. But I do I do want to start with this one story out of the NBA, and then I'll get to one thing at a college

basketball then we'll get to mic role. Channing Fry, of course, was on a different podcast and he said, hey, look, it's hard to play with Lebron because Lebron likes vets to where he can walk in and go, you're a shooter, you're a pastor, you're a driver, you're a rebounder. These are your rules. So it's gonna be interesting to see

what the Lakers because that's how Lebron's always played. On the other hand, I do think that the Lakers, if they're smart, gonna challenge Lebron for Hey, Lebron two point o or three point o or four point oh. It's probably more four point oh than anything. Should be a guy who can who can take a breath at times during the game and let other people play, can be more of a facilitator, which is a skill that doesn't

go away. Like the skill of going by everybody and taking on a team like that, you lose that that that first step ability. Now. I do think they'll playim at some small ball five. He has the size to do it. He's a sneaky shot blocker, he's a good enough rebounder, and it'll find him the mismatch. But more than anything, I don't think anything Shanning Fry said wasn't accurate. It's not always easy to play with a superstar. It's

not always easy to work with a superstar. And the idea this is not a bad thing when he's paying the picture of Hey, he likes guys and roles. I work with Colin Cowherd Colin Coward as a way in which he preps every day, and if you fill in for him as I do on his show on Fox Sports Trade or do my own chow from twelve to three Pacific time three to six Eastern time, there's a way in which I do things that somebody who fills

in for me has to do. Lebron James wanting to know shooters, passers, drivers and let them know all their roles. That's no different than a rock group. And you know one guy likes all green eminem's in his dressing room, right. He wants his his his ear is volume level in his ears to be just so. He wants to play golf every morning. Like that's that's what musicians do. That what actors do. That's part of their process in preparing them. And even though I am not a Lebron is the

greatest player ever guy. I'm absolutely willing to put him in the top five greatest players I've ever seen play basketball conversation. But I don't view it as a negative. I view it as really interesting. The other point that Channing Fry made, which was something I've said on radio, it's completely different when you're playing with Lebron in terms of how much people prepped for you. Right, Look, Lebron

come into town. Go and look at all of these different teams and their websites or their Twitter Twitter handles. When the schedule came out, the Dallas Mavericks, check out the Dallas Mavericks schedules and the two games we play at home against Lebron and the Lakers, you're everybody's biggest game. There are lots games in the NBA where guys are second night of a back to back and they went out when they landed in town and they're not taking it as seriously. That's not the case when the Lakers

come to town. So the challenge to these Lakers will be can they play the same system they've played against a higher level of competition with a heightened amount of detail and do it while working in Lebron James, who's played in his own system for the entirety of his career. I think it's fascinating. In college basketball, what I'm fascinated by is the Duke Blue Devils. I know Kentucky played in the Bahamas, and I've watched those tapes as well,

but everyone is I don't know everyone. A lot of people are freaking out over Zion Williamson making some jump shots and frankly looking great and there foreign tour against Canada. First thing is um R J. Barrett obviously is the better talent, and as good as Zion was, he was even better. The second thing is let's also catch our breath and realize that they're playing against massively inferior competition. They just weren't. They weren't The Canadian teams they're playing

against weren't. They weren't really even Division one teams. So it's great for Duke and for Kentucky to promote their players to get some run, to get some cohesion so that when they hit the ground running early in November and playing He's made for TV games, They've already played together. They don't have to, and they're they're the verbiage that they have to learn and some of the defensive slides

and adjustments they have to make. The questions for Zion Williamson being at six ft five pounds, I just I don't see playing at that weight is a good idea. Like if I'm advising Zion, I'm telling him, a dude, look, you look great there, and you have an incredible burst. You can chase dudes down and block shots. But we gotta try and get you in the two sixties. I gotta try and get you in the two six. You've got a couple of months to do. So it's gonna

be about diet. It's gonna be how we change your body, how we train you. Because Zion Williamson's ability to make it in the NBA and stick in the NBA. Yes, has to make jump shots, but it's can he play eighty two games? And can he guard laterally five five positions? You know physically with long arms and a thick body, there's not a ton of posts. He won't be big boy that much. But can he guard these guys out

in the perimeter? One he hasn't always played hard defensively, and two he's gonna have to change his body as much as he's an absolute tank and a physical FREAQ. When he plants his his his jump foot and he flies all around, I think he's got lightened up. And when you're sometimes we we we gotta watch the game backwards. Can he defend point guards on switches? Can he guard on the perimeter? Is he tough enough underneath the basket playing against bigger players to box out to rebound? Because

the reason Traymond Green is not a great athlete. Remember, Drink can't jump up and do anything that the Zion can do. And frankly, Zion right now is going to progress towards being a better shooter um in. Draymond Green granted very early, and he's gotta put in massive represence against inferior competition. But Draymond played without a jump shot last year. Draymond Green is Raymond Green because his ability to pass, He's ability to play five positions on offense,

but more than anything, because he can guard defensively. That's the challenge design Williams. All right, let's get to the to our special guest in the All Ball Podcast names Mike Role played at U C l A. Well, I was great catching up with Mike. Uh. I'll tell you quickly my story of landing in Russia. So I was sometime. I'll go through the whole process and tell this story again,

but here's what I remember. I was in Salina, Kansas, playing with the Salanta Rattlers, and it was a short term deal because I knew I was going to get a call to play overseas. And an agent at the time called me and said, hey, do you want to go to Russia? And I was like sure. So we packed up our stuff from Salina. I dropped my wife off in Oklahoma City at our apartment in Ocala. Uh. Well, I think at our parents house and she was going

to join me in a couple of weeks. And you know, we had apartment in Oklahoma City, and so we dropped off in an apartment in Oklahoma City, like a four hour drive or so. I fly from Oklahoma City to New York City. New York City, have to go to the Russian consulate and then overnight I fly on air float too Russia. I land in Moscow and when you land in Moscow, you don't speak in English. And at the time, this is two thousand and one January two

thousand one, snowing outside, everybody's smoking. Everywhere you land, you go through, you get your bags, you got all your lifely possessions, and all there was was a sign in Russian with a basketball. This guy could have been at axe murder. Right. You've ever been on that road from from the Cancun airport to Plia del Carmen and it's like a two lane road each way, and there's nothing along the road, and you're like, if somebody murdered me right here, no one would ever know for months. That's

the feeling. When I got into the car in Russia, I was super groggy because I traveled again to New York City and then overnight and I yet to master flying on red eyes and whatever, and smoke really bothered me. We stopped to eat at a Russian restaurant. I didn't speak English. The guy ordered for me to smoke everywhere. We drank tea afterwards, and I passed out in the car.

And here's my my most distinct memory, in addition to the fact that the guy just had a sign and didn't speak in English, who was driving me from one Moscow airport to another? If you've been to Russia and you didn't fly just in the Moscow to stay, you knew you had to go to a different airport. I was so tired. It was like a spy movie where somebody I was like b a baracus in the A team right where they gave me a shot, and I

was like in and out of consciousness. I remember waking up and seeing like we're pulling in, We're pulling by Red Square, We're like a mile out. And then I woke up again and we're right next to Red Square. And then I woke up again and Red Square was gone. But I remember seeing Red Square in the towers and all the look and I'm like I could not believe growing up in the eighties watching Red Dawn, Wolverades or Rocky four. Boys can change, and youth can change. We

all can change that. I was in made Russia, but I was, and then I passed out and I woke up and I'm at another airport. And there weren't sheep and goats and chickens and pigs that got on my flight to parm Russia, but it sure felt that way. And I remember the seats on that air flow plane. If you nobody was sitting in there, you could push it forward. They would almost fold down, like it was like being on a on a weird bus. Only we were flying and people are smoking and drinking vodka and koonak.

You drink koonak to uh to take a shot to for a famous war for stalling goodad they got done and gooead and they drink excessively. We land in perm Russia, and I remember getting off and it was one of those they they bring the stairs right to the plane and he walked down the stairs and you realize that you landed on like a foot thick piece of ice

because it's that cold. What's the point of what's the point of going back and getting the ice when it's that cold every day at a park on and some gloves on and a beanie on and a scarf on, and all you can see is my face and my breath. And I had like an Oklahoma State park on the bags. Come in outside and again this time I walk outside and there's a lady who does speak some broken English. They put me in a van that has the basketball logo on the van, and they take me to my apartment,

which is on the ninth floor. And I remember like walking up the stairs or going up the elevator, getting to the ninth floor, opening opening the door and looking around and thinking to myself, this is either the start or the end of my basketball career that's playing overseas. That's what's really like. No food in the apartment. Had to go and pick out stuff. Learned that the word this is at the so i'd walk around the we're go at the at the at the at the which

is pleased by jallatt by jasta. And I didn't know that Russians don't really say please and thank you that much, so they could pick me out that, in addition to the fact that I couldn't speak Russian. I was saying please, then thank you a lot. Anyway, there's my Russian story for the day. Guy picking me up, doesn't speak English, holding a sign driving me across Moscow, stopping for dinner, to which he made the mind do you want to eat? And I said yes. I still don't know what I ate.

It was quite gross. I drank tea. I fell asleep. I woke up. I was another airport. More smoke, more drinking, land, sheet of ice, baggage van, close the door to van, ninth floor. I'm in my apartment. I passed out, woke up the next day and play ball. All right, let's welcome in my girl, who, of course start at U C l A and now is a star with one of the elite teams in all of professional basketball. He plays from Akabi Tel Aviv. Kind of have to spend

some time with this year. In the All Ball podcast, Mike, how are you? How are you? I'm good? Um, so look at the time of this recording, I believe you leave for Israel tomorrow, right, yeah, alright, the thirty hours uh between now and the NonStop flight to Tel Aviv. I wanted if if you don't mind, I wanted to go down kind of memory road, and because I think

your path is amazing. It really is. From high school when you're supposed to go to ucs B, to go into u c l A, play on some final four teams, and then you know, kind of fighting your way up the ladder in professional basketball to play for you know, Beshi toash Now Maccabi Tel Aviv, you know, being a Turkish League All Star before you come over to Israel. Like that. That's the climb that I don't think a lot of people in the state's get a chance to

hear from um. Let's let's start. Let's start with with high school and recruiting. You're highly touted out of mission via HO and you're supposed to go to UCSB. Why the chain in going to u c l A. Yeah, So the recruitment from uh L A was a late thing. I went through the whole recruiting process, you know, I fell in love with a couple of schools, ultimately chose Santa Barbara. I wanted to stay a little bit close to home, and then I had verbally committed and I

was really excited about that. And then shortly into the beginning of my senior year. I believe it was UM coach Allen called me. Uh he offered me a scholarship right there on the phone, and I was just something too good for me to pass it up, and luckily I took it. Yeah, I remember. It's it's interesting because um I obviously also grew up in Orange County. I remember I was at tested in high school. My my sister was a cheerier U C. L A. My brother

went to school there, and they didn't offer me. It wasn't late. They didn't have me till summer before my senior year, and I kind of held it against them, right. I was like, dude, like you've known me since I was knee high. I used to be a ball boy when when Walt Hazzard was there, and uh, like it was. It felt like a perfect match. Although maybe I had to kind of blow up at abc D camp before

I could get there. So how did you process the idea of like, hey, I could go to u C. S B and maybe start for four years plus if you haven't been, if somebody hasn't been, I would. I would put down u C. SPS campus is the best in California, even better than Pepperdine because Pepperdine overlooks the water, whereas U c s B is literally on the water. Um, and it's like a better it's a party town. It's

like it's a cool place to go to school. How did you process the idea of going to ucs B and being a star as opposed to being part of an ensemble cast at u c l A. Yeah, So my dad originally was so against the idea of me going to u c l A for exactly what you said. Uh. He thought I would be the bigger fish in the small pond at Santa Barbara, and the small fish and the big pond at U c l A. Um. Benny

Hellen had just got there. He had really recruited some stars. Um. The class before me was in my position with Aaron and Falo, and the other guard was Jordan Farmer Are and Josh shipped the talented crew. Um. So at first, you know, I was a little bit hesitant because of what my dad said. Um. But after that, you know, I thought about it. I believed in myself and you shall add basketball and all the law and everything about it.

You know, I just wanted to be a part of that brotherhood, that community and I just ultimately took the jump. But like you said, Santa Barbara, that campus, while unbelievable, I already knew a bunch of friends that we're going to go to school there. You know, I'm familiar with Santa Barbara and not being that far. So that that part it was tough because I was like traffic in Los Angeles, you know, the whole school, Like I'm in love with the whole Santa Barbara. You skateboard, you biked,

the class, can serve on the weekends. So that part it was a change of mentality and ultimately for me, I love groups and that's where I wanted out. All right, So you go to u c l A. You show up and your your first team at U c l A. Who was on it, uh was Cedric Bosman, Ryan hollwand Aarona Flanlo, Jordan Farmer, Josh Ship My my class was there and call us In Luke and Ball Mute and two other talented freshmen. We were a very star studded teams, very good teams ended up making the final four. We

won the pack ten. Wow, it was great. What was it about Howland that allowed you? I mean, look, you guys had you just named off seven NBA players right outside of yourself, um, and and Josh Ship, who I don't think played in the league, but I know he played overseas. So he got seven NBA players and you being a uh, like a European League All Star Like those are some that's elite level of talent outside of

the talent, which which was important. And as soon as Howland got the job, he hit the ground running in recruited l a hard. Uh. What what was it allowed that allowed him to be successful coaching wise? From your perspective, Yeah, he's he's uh. He demands physicality and toughness and be prior to him coming at usual. I think that's what everybody was lacking there. Um, he he got the most out of our talent with that toughness. You know, he's

playing hard makes up for a lot of mistakes. And we were all just able to believe in what he said in that sense, and we just played, you know, every night and gave everything and we made up for a lot of his small details that the mistakes that you make in basketball by just overcoming with your your

power and your will. Yeah, And I brought some of that mentality from his time is interesting kind of the ties that bind, right, like he was he started his career at UCSB, worked his way around to the East Coast and brought some of that kind of East Coast back to u c l A. Um, your second year, you go back, you go back to the final four,

and you didn't you face Florida again? Right? Wasn't that the You played him again and kind of the same thing happened, right, he used You guys used to hedgehard, almost a double team ball screens and you would always post double and it was like the one team in college basketball that you could not play that way against. It felt like the same game play in the second

time around. Yeah, looking back on it, Uh, it definitely hurts. Uh. You know, they had two twin dours down there, Joakim Noah and Al Horford, and yeah, we we like to double the posts. We believe that, you know, bad pastors can't pass out and good players you need help. So we kind of went with a similar game plan, and you know, they had really good pieces to that. Troy Humphries was out there, um or Lee Humphries, I think it was was out there just knocking down wide open threes.

How bad did you have double? How bad did you want to be that guy? Right? Lee Humphreys, Like they had all those plays, Like, dude, if I went to Florida, that would be me. Yeah, exactly. Uh two twin dours Corey Brewer on the Wink Tory and Green was a very solid point guard for them. Uh. He just had open looks. And I mean at that level, it's cash money, Okay. So look, you play with all these different dudes. Russ comes in, right, you got DC, Darren Collison, Drew Holiday,

you play with Kevin Love of those in college? Did you know Russ would be Russ? Did not know Russ would be Russ. Uh. I knew he had a crazy work ethic. But when he came in, if you go back and look at the pictures, he's this gangly, skinny freshman. Uh, you can tell he's really athletic, but you don't know if he's gonna be able to put it all together.

He slowly fills out a little bit more a sophomore year, and the best thing to happen to him was that Darren Collison got hurt at the beginning of the year. We had to slide Russell over to the point guard and that's where he got his feet wet. Uh. He was very turnover prone at the time. I think he was learning the point guard position. But you could just see flashes of brilliance his athleticism out there. He could really play defense. His his rebounding was elite. And after that,

I mean he just shot up the Yeah. But you also he had Remember he had that dunk against cal that was just phenomenal. But I just it was he had one against brother was But I mean, like, look, he just such a freak. But you usually wasn't known to have a great strength program, Like you didn't have guys that. Did his body change naturally or was it working with your guys? He work somebody? How did he go from nine minutes a game as a freshman to the fourth pick and such a freak athlete? Yeah, that's

it's amazing to see. For one, But I think Russell is just naturally gifted, um to be what he is now. I mean, you have to have a really a god given body and talent. He's worked hard, but what he has I think is not natural for many humans. Okay, what about Kevin Love? When you Kevin Love, I was always told like, dude was a star. But but there were a lot of people that didn't like Kevin Love. There was some about his personality. What was his personality

like when he first showed up in Westwood. Yeah, you could tell that he loved basketball immediately. I loved that about him. He was always wanting to play. I always wanted to work. Uh, super skilled, like far more skilled than any big that we had. What works spin moves his field for the game. Where how does guys? While his feeling ability downlow was unbelieved. We played Stanford his freshman year and they had the too Lopez to end at the time, and I think he outstanded both of

them combined. He's just feeling them right under the paint. They're a little taller than he is, they can't block his shot because he's so good with his body. Uh. He was a really nice guy. So his time there it was really enjoyable. Okay, So Drew comes in there, and um, when you came back from injury after your medical redshirt year, ye're behind Drew, And of course d C chose to not go pro, so they were kind

of you Drew one to play the point. Hallan probably promised him played the point, only he played the two. They didn't seem to get along. What was what was Drew Holiday like to play within college? Yeah, Drew's uh a quiet guy. Um, he's very good. You could see that also the minute he stepped on the campus. The thing that struck me for Drew was his left hand. He's always going back to the left hand. He prefers that. So many guys you know, think that he's right handed.

He's always trying to get that and he could just easily get by people because they're not used to that. Um. But he's very nice. And yeah, he wanted to play the point, but DC was such a good college point guard. He ran it exactly how Ben Hallen wanted, how we wanted to play defense. So it was like he got a give and take at the time for both coach

and for both of them. You know, one of the things that that impressed me about your career in college was through all of this, through all these NBA talents, all Americans breeding brought in one and done, two and done whatever like it, it felt like you kept working, whereas a lot of guys they get mad and they transfer so they can play or you know, they just kind of accept their role and almost shut it down. What was really going on behind the scenes? You, your dad,

you and your friends. Uh you just internally, how did you process kind of fighting for every scrap in terms of playing time and sometimes not being rewarded with it. Yeah, that's that's exactly what it was. It was a battle inside. I heard, you know, all the rumors of who they wanted to bring in. At first, it was they were really recruiting Chase budd Inger hard and my trainer was like, I don't understand they have you. Why did they want

another guard? There was always something who was going to transfer in, but I was already behind in an NBA player and Aerona Flo. So for me, every day it was just trying to get better. You know. I didn't know who they were going to bring in, and I told myself I couldn't worry about that anymore. I just I was there. I was living the uh l A dream. We were really good. I had a chance to be a pro and I figured that out when I got

to college. So for me, it was just trying to improve and trying to scrape as many minutes as possible. I knew we were one of the more loaded teams at the guard position in the whole country. We had to call it scouts nearly every day at practice. So it was a great opportunity. And as soon as I got in that mode, in that mode attacking all the time. Uh, you could see my improvement every year and I was

gaining more and more minutes. And by the time that I was, you know, my fourth in my fifth year, Um, I was one of the leaders of the team. Yeah. He lad keemen scoring and I believe in assists. Um. Uh. You know in your in your season season and of course you played like a hundred and forty seven games there. Nobody knows more about used to play in U c l A basketball games in mic role who joined us?

All right, so here's the here's the part that that I really want to get to you get because so many people can can use this as useful information, whether it's high school kids, a you kids or coaches, college kids as well and listen to the or or just people that want to know about basketball. Your career gets done at U c l A. Yeah, you play in the Reese's All American Game at the final four. Uh, take me through the process of you had summer League,

you had the draft, you have overseas basketball. Did you sign with an agent right away? What? What? What? What happened? First? Take me through the succession of events. So I'm graduated my senior I'm playing the Reese's All Star Game. That was a really fun experience. I'm kind of gauging what everybody else is doing, who they're talking to, agent wise, what their next steps are. Uh. I decided to go

with Chris Emmons from Octagon. He is my agent, um, the only real agent that recruited me basically, so I was happy with that. We started training at the at the a P Facility, which is in Carson, California. Athletes performance for the pre draft. We're in there six days a week all the way from the time that I graduated into the pre draft. So I'm thinking, Okay, let's get these workouts in. I think I had eight to ten workouts. Um when I went. I killed the workouts.

But the nomenclature against me, and I'm a white guy. They think I'm slow just because I'm whiteness the basketball. Uh, they think I'm strictly a shooter. I get to the workouts, I showed that I can handle a little bit. I can still get pass guys, but it's not enough to get me drafted. Um. I'm I'm realistic. I didn't think I was going to be. I just thought I had to get a shot, maybe at a camp deal or something like that. So I go, I have a great

summer league. Hold on, hold on, hold away, Let's go back. Let's go back to the workout. Let's go back to the workouts. Give me some give me somebody. You killed the workout. That that's that's something. You killed the workout. Okay, I'm not I'm not gonna say I killed, but okay, there was Um. I got to go up against one on one session with Paul George in the Valley was Danny Ainge there. It was just him and I have more than held my own. That was a very eye opening.

I got to go up against Gordon Hayward for the Warriors up in up in the Bay is very well there. Um. And then the other group sessions, it was most of them were just shooting skills and I was well prepared training with mile assignment for the pre Droft that was an elite shape. So I was just out running everybody. I handled everything that they threw at me, and so as the word kind of got out that, you know, I was a little bit better than what I was

able to show. Ut uh l A, I kept getting more calls to come work out, and it was better for me. You know. It's it's interesting you bring up the like the so often times we don't discuss it enough and radio and TV is the idea that hey, look, you're a white guy and so sex second you walk in the gym, the shooter right, shooter um in these and look one on one it doesn't doesn't matter as much. But how much of it did you try and prove people wrong? And how much of it did you just

try and play your game right? Because that's what they say that pros do what they do well and don't do what they don't do well. On the other hand, you do want to prove like, hey, dude, I got a good first step. I am a really good athlete. How did you handle that in your workouts? Yeah, that's that's a great point. So because me, I'm I'm great in a system. You know, I have a great feel for the game five on five. I can make reads, I can cut off other people. So I'm a lot

better in that sense. But in the workouts it's one on one, two on two, so you want to show everything that you can. You know, on the one on zero you're trying to do these crazy down show that you can jump more than they think. Like you said, they think I'm a shooter immediately, they think I'm probably slow. So as I'm going up against you know, my fellow classmates and I score, whatever happens, they're kind of looking at me like, Okay, this kid can play a little

bit more than I expect. That's just how it is when you're a white basketball player coming up. That's just how it goes. So try to do everything as much as you can, as best as possible, just to show that, you know, it's not just you're strictly a shooter. All right. So you you decide to go to Toronto for the summing, you go undrafted? What's that like? By the way, like, let's go back to the two draft. Did you watch? Yeah? I did watch. I watched the probably the fifteen picks,

and then after that it was just taking too long. Um, Chris had not called me saying there was any buzz, so I just figured that I wasn't going to get drafted, and I wanted to just hear from him the next day to see if we could get a camp deal or what was the next step. Uh, every day with Landry Field. So I was really excited for Landry because I had a feeling that he was going to get drafted, And as soon as I found out that the Knicks picked him, um, it was it was just a good

night for that and we were all happy. Most a lot of guys, A lot of guys who I think they should get drafted fire their agent right after the draft, right, Like, that's that's the whole thing. Everybody's I'm late first early second, and you want to be somebody's second agent, because in order to land you as their client, they have to tell you that they're going to get you drafted. Uh that was That wasn't the case with you and Chris correct, No,

absolutely not. Um. I just wanted to have a good situation, whether it was trying to get a camp deal or oversea. You know, I had a couple of friends already that played overseas basketball. They liked it, So I was definitely open minded to going to Europe and going that route. So how did it come to be that your first gig end up being in Bornova in Turkey. Yeah, So I go to Summer League with the Raptors. We have like a mini mini training camp up in Toronto prior

to going out to Las Vegas. And that's when a bunch of those guys were young, Demard Rose and Sunny Weems, Joey Dorsey, um, Jared Jack was up there for the camp, although he was not a part of that. He was just out there shooting. We had a great camp. I definitely raised some eyes there, but again nothing happened. I think their team was already filled. So I Chris came to me, said, I got this good deal in Turkey.

The Turkish League is really good. If you go show that you can play there, then you could really move up the ladder from Europe in a hurry. So I decided to take that jump, and and that's where I signed. Okay, way, let's go. Let's go back to when you're when you're in Toronto. UM my summer league experiences with the Lakers, and I remember walking to the building and the first like week I walked into the building, I was I felt like a foreigner, like I didn't belong there. You

look up and there's posters. You know, there's there's Kareem, and there's Will and there's at the time, Shaq and Kobe are playing there in the winning championships, and like, what the hell am I doing here? And then like you know, a week and a half in, you start to know everybody at the facility. You start to feel like you put on the jersey. It doesn't feel foreign to you, and you have to have some sort of

confidence that you can play. As much as you were raising eyebrows, was there a moment to which you're like, dude, I'm gonna make this thing, only to have it have it? Have it worked the other way when they came in and told you we're gonna We're gonna let you go and and keep an eye on him. Yeah, we played I think it was we played the Knicks in the summer League. I think it was maybe the first or second game, and I hadn't been playing too much and

then they gave me a huge opportunity in the second half. Um, I really made some nice buckets. I think it was like team points in the second half. And after that, I'm like, Okay, they're gonna give me a real chance from here on, now, this and that, and then it kind of just didn't go my way after that point and get as much playing time. They told me that they were already stacked at the guard positions, so they

weren't looking for another one. And that's when it was like kind of like a blow, you know, to the stomach. As much as I didn't think I was going to be able to make the NBA my first year round it, it still hurts to hear, no, no, no question. I think the other thing is your college career, because you had so many different roles, actually probably prepares you to be a role player in the NBA better than other guys, right,

Like most guys. The hardest thing I think that most players adjust struggle to adjust to is you know, from the time they're eight years old until the time that they're drafted in the NBA, they start, they play three quarters or more of the minutes, and so now you get to a higher level of competition with harder rules, further shots, fewer touches, and you're supposed to play better, you know, play play more efficient basketball, which is, by the way, what you had had to do to get

on the court at U C. L A limited shots, limited opportunities, and be more efficient even than starters during that time. Like the crazy part about it is, because of your various roles at U C l A, you're actually probably more prepared to be a bench player in the NBA than many more elite athletic talents or how they perceived to be better prospects that you couldn't have

put that in a better way. A lot of these guys growing up, you know, obviously they're spoon fed so many things from so many people telling them they're the best. They still think that they have that killer mentality. But when you get to the m b A, it's a niche. There's only a few superstars on the team that get the ball so many twenty times a game, or more so everybody that they're looking for. You've got to find your niche in the league. It's a specialty. So for me,

I could easily accept that role willingly. I've done it before. I would be happy to do it then. But a lot of these guys are not willing to maybe take a step back in their eyes to further their career, to make their career longer. So like you said, I could have easily filled that that that role for a long time compared to others. Yeah, man, I'm looking at some dudes that got drafted in two thousand tens. Some of these names aren't gonna sit well with you, you know.

Like look land Stevenson right behind Landry. He's still in the league. But like Andy Rautins, I know his dad was a great player. He's a good shooter at Syracuse, but come on, man, he didn't do the things all the thing. I mean, tiny Gallen guy, he's he's stunk. Willy Warren, a couple of Oklahoma guys. He he There's some guys that ever even got I love these guys. They're not even playing anymore. It makes you wonder, like

did they even love basketball? Where they're willing to work, it's just because maybe they had a better situation in college or had more opportunity on a lesser team so they got a better look. But if you look at who I was playing with every day, it was it was like an NBA team already, no question, no question. Daniel Orton, who didn't even play at Kentucky. He got drafted by Orlando uh in the first round, and I mean never really Sniff. The NBA. Mike Role is our

guest here on the All Ball Podcast. What do you remember about your the first flight from Orange from Southern California from l a X to to Turkey. Uh, it was a harsh landing I got there. I had never been to Turkey before. Um. I had to use the restroom immediately when I got off the flight. So I go in inside the airport. Uh, there's no toilets. It's the hole in the ground and it's extremely hot. I don't speak Turkish. I'm super flustered, like what am I

doing here? So I have this moment. I'm thinking to myself, I need to lock it up. I need to get it together. But it's just all coming at me. It's surreal. I'm in a completely foreign country. I don't know how to communicate with these people. I don't know who's picking me up. I have no idea where to go. I'm sweating profusely because I have all these bags. It's already super hot. It's like I grew up in a great location in southern California, and here I am. Why am

I doing this? You when you landed, where did you Where did you? Where did you let na Istambol because because like Bornova, that's a different like you gotta take another flight, right, So when you got uf Bornova is in Ismir, so I had to make a connecting flight down to ismuir Um. Well, now that I'm familiar with the Ismir is a beautiful place in in uh in Turkey. But at the time I had no idea, and I didn't know that the bathrooms were like that. I didn't

know about the rayer calls going on. It was all just hitting me like uh, like I was wide eyed. Okay, so uh you land because I so I remember my first flight to to Russia. Okay, so you land and the yeah, the the having them pick you up like again, now it's not as big a deal because now you have I mean probably you're you're still it's like cell phone and text message or whatever. But you you finally walk out of that restroom and what was there a guy with a sign that had a basketball on it.

It was written in Turkish? Is that about right? So you would think the guy wasn't even there to pick me up on time. So I go out. I have all these bags, I have no idea where to go, so I just sit on this bench, and he's like forty minutes late to picking me up. He comes in with a piece of paper, says Michael Roll, and I'm like, oh wow, thanks for being on time, thanks for letting me come from half way across the world, and this is what you have to do. So I was already upset.

I was already you know, really flustered, and so he picks me up and and then it just goes downhill from he So then, so then where you go? Did you go right to practice the facility? Did you go to your new apartment where he took me to my apartment or what I thought was going to be in my apartment, But it was a disaster. The bed frames were broken, there was nails hanging out, the freezer was already iced over. They hadn't cleaned it and since the

end of last season, so like three months prior. The windows were all close. So it just smelled so bad and I just couldn't handle it. Was I'm not I'm not sleeping here, what is this? And so he said, okay, so he it took me to a different apartment that they had. We spent the night and then I went to training camp the next morning. So so you go to training camp and again, like you've played in all

these teams and all these parts of the state. Do you remember did anything stick out to you about about your first training session in training camp? You know, I thought it was I thought it was going to be strictly basketball. But over there, you know, they play soccer to warm up. Sometimes we played tag. We played partner tag where you have to hold a hand, then you have to go tag another two people. It was like they were just punching the time card. We weren't there

to play basketball and get better. It was like just just fun for them. It was just really strange. It was really strange. Did you have to do the Cooper test for the conditioning. I remember having to do the Cooper test. We have to go out and run on the track right and there's like an optimal time. And like I remember, like you're hanging out with vet Americans and VET Americans like, man, this ship doesn't matter, whereas like I'm sitting here like dude, I'm trying to make

the team. I'm spritting the whole way. What was your mentality? Yeah, exactly like that. You know, as a rookie, I'm like, oh, man, I better be first, I better finished. I want to play. Coach needs to like me. So I'm like spring hard doing all these the dumb drills, and the couple of vets on my team are just laughing, laying in the back, just just kind of slowly getting in shape them. So how did the season go? Uh? I didn't even end

up finishing the year there. Uh. It was going fine while I was there, and then I ended up, um going to a different team in Belgium because they started to have some money issues. Um, dudes, we were getting paid late. So yeah, I went to Belgium about January of that season. Okay, but so when when you let you leave Turkey and you go to Belgium, But you went to one of the better teams. Wasn't Antwerp one of the better teams in Belgium? Yes? And and I think like you guys even got to the finals. What

was the level of competition? Like compare and contrast playing in Turkey to playing in Belgium. So the level in Turkey it's higher. Um, there's a bigger budget teams, um, some really good foreigners there. Belgium is more of a smaller league. Um. But it was still very good competition, still some pros throughout there. So it was a lot easier living um wise in Belgium more similar to the States, really really clean. When I've been there has been super

super clean. Yeah, it's an amazing country. I couldn't have enjoyed my time more. I made friends that I still have to this day while in Belgium, and I mean there's just memory stick out and I would love to go back anytime. Okay, so you get done, you lead them to the finals. Uh, and you had some huge games. So you start your you start in Turkey, you end in Belgium. You get back home to the States, and what's your agents saying? Uh? He's he's asking me if

I want to do the summer league route again. Um. And at that point, it's already June, and I'm thinking, holy cow, like my summer is already about to finish and I just got home. So he's telling me, these couple of teams are calling, an Italian team is calling. I'm like, oh, I've heard about basketball in Italy. I've heard it's great. Um. You know. The process goes on, but I end up resigning with Antwerp for my second year.

I got some some fairly good money at the time, and you know I just wanted to go with that. So you go back, Um, how did how did it come about that you end up in Zaragoza? So after my second year in in Belgium, I played great that year, Um, just the Spanish team the following season they wanted me. I signed the one plus one contract and I ended up playing two years there. Okay, Zaragoza is in the A c B. It's arguably the best, the best league

outside of the NBA. Right is that? That's not a that's a fair like I know some of the top Okay, So now tell me about the flight from the States to Spain to Zaragoza in comparison to the one you told us about in Turkey. By now you've traveled overseas a but you laying there is there a is there a ticker tape parade? Is there a bunch of dudes Minia or are you waiting on the curb again like you were in Turkey. So immediately prior to me leaving,

they tell me exactly what's happening. I'm catching this flight. We've already set up a taxicab to pick you up in Madrid take you to the train station, you take the high speed rail to Zaragoza. It was all very organized. There was already people waiting for me when I got off the train station in Zaragosa. It was it was great. They were very welcoming and they were ready for my arrival. So that that was awesome. So you got to play against some of these players that are now in the States,

many of they are still starting overseas. Who's the best player you ever playing against in Spain in Spain? Um, well, first of all, last year, Luca don Chet's was very good. I will definitely say that. But at the time, maybe Sergio Yule, he plays for Real Madrid. He is fantastic. I think the Houston Rockets have his rights, but I think he's just gonna stay in Spain for his whole career. Then you went back to Turkey, spent two years in Spain.

You went back to Turkey second time, and I played for two different actually three or four different clubs in Turkey, like are you and and then when did you get Tunisian citizenship? That was one of those deals right where you gotta paid like twenty grand to get Tunisian citizenship. So you you call, you call if I write like you're you're you have no Tunisian background, are you? I do not? But so I played with salom Mezri who

plays for the Mavericks East Tunisian. I played with him in Belgium and they can nationalize one player for the afro Basket and the Olympics. So I spoke with him and the coach and I was able to get that done and that has been a real blessing and so much fun. Okay, so you get to play with the Tunisian national national team? What is that? Like? That? Wow?

What an experience? I uh I first played a couple of years ago at the Afro Basket UM in Tunis, Tunisia actually, and we the winner was able to go to the Olympics the following year. So we had a really good chance. We're a very good team. We did come up short. We lost in the semifinals to Angola UM and then we ended up winning the bronze the third place team. Okay, what's what's what's what's Tunisia like?

Tunisia is it's a lot like Grief. It's a beautiful country, it's a coastal uh water is very clear, they speak French, Arabic. Uh it's it's really a great place. So I suggest anybody go up they can. Okay. So when you when you go to Tunisia and you being you know, having Tunisian citizenship, what do you do? They speak English to you? Do you know French? Now? How do you? How do you function? So the coach really cool guy. He speaks

many different languages. He would speak French to the guys and either they would break it down for me, um, for the few French words that I didn't know, or he would just speak to me in English. Um, I me you know the things that I didn't need to understand. If you were just talking to everybody else, then they would just let it fly by. But otherwise they would break it down to me. However I wanted you mentioned

the calls to prayer. Of course, playing all these years in Turkey, playing as a member of the Tunisian national team, you're playing in countries which are either partially or predominantly Muslim. How how have how have you been treated as an American playing in these foreign countries? When uhh, you know, when there's there's this perception of a divide internationally between Muslims and Americans. Yeah, so there's that perception, but through

the basketball lines, it doesn't happen. I've been treated great. As soon as I mentioned you know, I'm here for basketball. I play for this club. Everything is fantastic. They welcome me with open arms. There. They always have so many questions, you know, what's America? Like, Oh, you're from California. Oh I want to visit there? Is it like the TV show that oc It just goes on and on. But everybody is very friendly and it's been great. It is like the TV show. See right, do you say that's

exactly what it's like. It's actually a lot like nine O two one. Oh, that's exactly. Uh, that's exactly what it's like where I grew up, very similar. Okay, this year you end up going to Israel playing for Maccabi tel Aviv and look, you played for best toash, we mentioned you played in Spain. Um. Maccabi tel Aviv to people who don't know, is one of the premier clubs

in all of of FIBA. Uh, I gotta I gotta first ask you when you sign with Maccabi tell Aviv and you go through customs like one of the things that does set off an alarm is when you have Arabic on your passport, and obviously and you have a Tunisian passport, which is an Arabic country. Was there any issues? Did they give you any pushback when you first showed up at Maccabi tel Aviv? No? Absolutely not. First of all,

I'm presenting my American passport. Um. But I think Maccabi tel Aviv is such a huge brand throughout Israel that they know all of the players as soon as they signed them. So I land and it's nothing but love. They're excited for the new season. Um. They know that I already played for the team, which I did not know at the time. You know, everybody's already knows knows everything about me. It seems like it's just pure love. Okay. So you're playing with MacCabe Telva and people didn't follow

you guys season. You guys had kind of up and down your curial season. Um, and you end up when the Cup and the league championship, which was in doubt for a good portion of the season, playing for a team that is you're basically the lakers of the country. Right. That's not a that's not an overstatement, right, Like, you're expected to doing everything, You're expected in every game, You're expected to get to the final four, and they covered on the on the nightly news, they get all the

news stations cover everything. That's that's kind of your first experience since u c l A of playing for a dominant franchise, right, Is that fair? Yeah? Absolutely? So what was it like for you to play inside that fish bowl while you know, learning how to play in Israel? You know, for me, it was fine. Um, I'm I'm very much all about the hoop when I when I'm playing during the season, you know, I take care of my body. I'm not going out at night, and I

live in this wild lifestyle. So for me, whenever I'm out and people are saying something, you know there, it's just we're wishing you look. But like you said, as soon as we lose a game, it's like the world is upside down. How could we lose to them? We're not supposed to lose any games, So it was definitely everything was very magnified. But as soon as I got used to that, you know, it's totally great and I

learned to appreciate it. You're working on here, your eighth season as a as a professional, on my ninth going on your nice sorry we're working your ninth season as a professional, and I guess you mentioned taking care of your body. Let's let's go from you're in college, you go through the pre draft process, you work with Miles and and those guys that athletes performance, UM to now like, how do you do you do you keep working on the same things. Do you try and add something to

your game? What's your process been like in the off season? Yeah, so every summer is a little bit different as far as what I want to add. Um, I've definitely tightened my hand handle over the years, a lot more things have becoming off the balance and through the pick and roll, so that has definitely been added to my game. Um. I've added strength over time, and you know, I've had

to play different roles for every team. So as soon as I find out where I'm going and what what kind of role I'm going to be playing, and that's kind of what I year the summer towards. How much easier is it playing a second year with the same club. You did it in in Belgium, you did it in Spain,

and now you're doing it with Maccabi Tel Aviv. One of the things I think that guys I personally struggle with is like, you know, it takes you a good amount of time to kind of learn the surroundings, learned the coach. Every country has a different style of basketball. Uh, you played in Turkey for a good amount of time. Um, is that part of your thought process which is like, hey, maybe I can go out and search the extra do or somewhere else, but I'm more likely to have success

going back to the same place because I know everything. Yeah, basketball is a basketball, so you know there's a few minor differences, but as soon as you get on the court, you know, everything's pretty similar. But if the off the course stuff that makes you feel comfortable and being in a foreign country so far away from home, the more comfortable yard, the better you're gonna play. So as I'm familiar with where to go to get my groceries, where to get my hair cut, you know, every little thing,

every detail of it, it comes easier. I feel more comfortable and things just go better on the court. How do you maintain contact with the States? You know, I think one of the things it's easier now obviously and in Israel. You can watch ESPN and and you can you can feel like it's but it's it's not America, right like, and you do still like you want to watch football on a Saturday. You want to watch football on a Sunday. You want to still feel like you know that. How do you how do you how do

you maintain the balance of home all being abroad this long. Yeah, you you have to do it as best as you can. But you know, there's there's technology. I have a swing box which connects to my my TV in America, so I you keep the same television shows, the same sporting events. I even get the same commercials. Um. You know, obviously FaceTime is a huge thing with your friends, I message,

so you just gotta balance it. You know, a lot of things happen so late at night Israeli time compared to what's going on in the States for sporting events. So a lot of times you'll record something and stay up the next and watch it the next day, so you're not staying up all night. Um. You know, you've got the group chats are always going off in the middle of the night because it's their their evening time. You have to, you know, just pick and choose what

you want to deal with. What about your diet. Diet is is strong, a lot of vegetables. The older I get, more more greens, more veggies. Try to stay chicken and fish, stay away from from the red meat as much as I can. Um having good starches, you know, sweet potatoes, kingwaw, brown rice, things like that, So you really have to

stay on top of it the older you get. Is it fair to say that there are a lot of guys that maybe have more athletic pure athletic talent that have fallen by the wayside, either going out, Uh, they couldn't adjust to like what you did in Turkey right, show up, they don't know anybody, they freak out, Dude, I gotta go home, or or the diet Like look, diet can can undo you just as much as anything else. Because you're not eating right, your body is gonna break down.

You're gonna get hurt and not perform at the same level. It's some of these, some of those ancillary things which leads guys like we mentioned into two thousand ten draft to not be playing as opposed to here you are thirty one years old going on your ninth year seemingly getting better and getting paid more money. Yeah, now that's the thing. At first it's you know, they don't want to go away from home, but then it's once it comes down to after that, it's it's basketball. It's taking

care of your body. Um, the less sleep you get if you go now more if you're eating McDonald's you know on the weekly. Uh, some guys I've seen doing on the daily, they'll tara hamstrings, be out six weeks, try to recover, come back, hurt their ankle. That you do that one season, you're liable to either get a very bad job the following year or be done. So it all adds up in the diet just becomes more evident to later you get in your career. What about the NBA dream? Have you been up on it? I

have not. Um, I'm not so much chasing it because I make a very good salary playing in Europe now. But you know, the past couple of weeks I've been running with the Lakers up in Elsa Gundel. Um, I can still play with those guys. I'm still doing great. Um, it's definitely evident. But to have a team want to take a early to mid thirty year year old white guy as a rookie. It's not likely. I know that, but of course I would love to be in the show. Yeah,

but I mean, don't you fit? Don't you it? Like, let's just say the Lakers, right, isn't that what they should want if they want to compete for a championship? Is a guy who I'm not gonna say, fat girl the problem, just happy to be there, but a guy who understands how fortunate you are to be there, to come off the bench, being able to play five minutes or thirty five minutes. And you know, like you said,

you're all about hoop. You know how to play. If you get the ball and you're open, you make a shot. If not, you can move the ball and play within the system. Shouldn't Like I've always thought if I was running a team, those are the guys that I want to fill out my bench with because they've been pros. They completely understand how to play, and and the older you are, the more shots you make, the smarter the

passes you make. I mean, I guess with the with the with the perception be the defensive end, and the ability to guard people. I mean, you hit it right, on the head. Uh No, nobody said all these um upper office people were the brightness humans. But I know how to I know how to play. I know who needs to get what shot. I can easily knock down the open shot and create a little bit. Yeah. I mean maybe it's it's the defense. Um you never know. But I've been playing great with the Lakers the last

couple of weeks. Um, so I'm already friends with Luke Wallen. So that's that's where that connection is. And you know, we joke about it, but you know it's at the NBA now, I think it's just going more towards the younger player with the more potential. Yeah, I don't. I don't know though, but I feel like at the top level it's more about skill than it is athleticism. Right

that skill has come back. Skill shooting and passing has come back into the game, um as people have gone along with analytics like oh wait a second, your ability to make a shot. Now you also have to be able to defend multiple positions. But that's not always I think some people think it's about athletic ability. I think it's about you know, internal toughness, right, because you just can't get punked and you can't allow yourself to get

put in a bad spot. And even hey, sometimes you can play great defense in the NBA and you're playing against better players and they just make shots. But I actually think I think there are there is, there are some young players, but those guys get stuff away in the G League, and for the teams that really want to win, they want skill, they want shooting, they want passing. Now you're you're absolutely right. Um, So like the dream

is still there. Whether it's going to be pursued next season or not, I mean that's to be determined, so we'll see. Okay, I want to ask you about Luke Luca don Check. What's he like? To describe him as somebody who's played against him, Yeah, he's incredibly skilled. Uh, he sees the game, you know, a couple of plays ahead of what's happening. He's got a great feel. Whether it's passing, he can really shoot it. He's a really big guard. So I think he's gonna do just fine.

And the more experience he gets in America, the better he'll do. You mentioned playing against the Lakers. The Lakers have this interesting confluence, right, they have these older guys the Rondo's de Lan Stevenson's the Javels, and of course Lebron, and then they have the younger guys who though they weren't really successful in terms of wins and losses, they started to win some games last year and they want

to kind of play Luke system. And Luke come from not just triangle with with Phil Jackson, but also you know Bald movement. A lot less is a lot less pick and rolls from from Golden State. How do you see that playing out? I think they're gonna be great, to be honest, I think they're there are two units, all incredibly talented. They can really go, they can score.

I think they're gonna let Lebron maybe take a lesser role the first, you know, forty minutes of the game so he's not so tired, and then once it comes down the crunch time. I mean they have the trump card. Basically, he's he's amazing. Obviously you give the ball to him at the end of the game and anything, he's tight. They're they're are the winning are very good. What do you think of brandon Ingram? Wow? Crazy talented. I didn't know he was that long. I mean, he's just like

he's I don't know, like a tarantula out there. Everything he does, he shot is pure so skilled. I mean, as soon as he can get more weight on himself and and learning the game more, he's gonna be even better. Obviously, Josh Hart blew up at Summer League. You think can he be an NBA starter? Yeah? Absolutely, He's really good, very strong, can really shooting easy, crazy strong, right, Mike crazy strong? Isn't he like he's like in the conversation of strongest guys on that team. I think last year

he was the strongest guy in the team. Yeah. I mean you could just just look at him. You see a super built But the way he plays, you know, he gets his shoulder into somebody and he's knocking them back, creating space for himself. I think he's going to play a great year. Uh, Kuzmo, what do you like about his game? I mean, obviously he blew up as a rookie, twenty two year old rookie. Seemingly he was better as an off the bench for than he was his starting

corps um. What what what's his game like? Uh? Well, I just love that he was always there super early and staying late. He's another guy that loves it. He's working super hard um in the in the games, his motor is just incredible. He's, you know, right at you. He doesn't matter who's in front of him. He's going at them trying to get buckets, and he's just really good slashing and getting through there. All right, now, we

talked a little bov diet. We talked about your your own kind of progression into being a star player in Europe and obviously playing with the Cove Tel Aviv. If you could go back and you were to tell your high school self, because there's a lot of this just all about basketball. Guys, you're listening to this, what would you do on a daily basis in order to if you're like going to work on your game, how would

you go about it if you were back in high school? Yeah, I would take it a little bit more serious at a younger age. You know, I tried to, you know, not just go out there and play and you know, just you know, mess around with your friends, but try to try to be a little more serious with it. Try to envy our emulate the guys in the league, so see what the NBA wants and try to work

on those skills every day. Well well, well, was there a number of shots per day that they should make that they should tell amount of time that you that they should like, there's there is a limit to which you don't want to burn a dude out. But like, look, if you say you love ball, get in the gym, how many shots today? How long should you be working out? Yeah? I mean if you if you love hoop and you're

not gonna get burnt out? I mean the minimum every day I think should be at least minimum to fifty making or taking taking. Um, the older you get, you know, the more makes you're gonna have. So the younger kids at least take two fifty and then just just play as much as you can, whether it's the camps in the summer that you get invited to, or you know, the pick up runs at night after dinner, whatever it

may be. What about au team? Would you play with the bigger team to which you have to share minutes and share the ball, or would you play with the team to which you get to be the guy? Uh? For me, we were a smaller team, So I would say just just go to where you can play and and you can plays as much as your game as possible so people can see it, which is kind of counter dope. While you went to U C l A though, I want to point that one out right, I guess

that is true. Um, but as soon as I was seen, um, you know, then I really believe in myself and then I could could be seen at any point. At that point, I have John Bart. How do you dear? Debart Tabelloe? John de Bartlomeyo is going to join us as well on the on the pod. He's an amazing story, a complete unknown. Um. The other area that I lived in for a couple of years, Westport, where where he's from. Like,

is he the guy? He's got one of those guys to which I had literally like, look, I've been doing this covering sport for fifteen years. I've never heard of him, and like you go to Israel, like have you ever seen him play? No? Check him out. He's awesome. He's one of those stories of a guy that you didn't know of and now all of a sudden he's a really, really talented player. How often do you come upon guys like that? Yeah, it's it's a rare. His story is

definitely rare. He he's another guy that loves hoop and his work ethic is insane, and that's his reason for being here. His game is incredible, and I'm so happy that he's my teammate. Listen, we listen, We wish you save travels uh to Ben Gurion Airport. I hope you're now your apartment overlooked? The water is that? Are you on? Are you on the beach? Very close? I'm a five minute walk to the beach. Now have you have you broken out? Do you have a board there? Can you

surf there? I don't surf there just because, uh, you know, I'm not trying to get hurt throughout the season, so I keep that for the summertime. Your favorite surf spot in southern California is what Salt Creek Beach where Salt Creek yep um waves have to be. How big before you you get excited and go down to Salt Creek, Oh man, anything three to six ft in that's ideal

for me. Three to six ft is ideal. You are when you first your place that this is where I grew up playing pick up basketball was where um Main Beach, Laguna Main Beach, Laguna at the half court to three on three, which they've redone. Do they still play down there? I've I've been back in here. What what days they play? Early Saturday mornings? And last I heard it was Wednesday night. Wednesday nights. All right, still time to get it in. Uh, next week, last thing, and uh this is kind of

the the most the most important thing. Jordan or Lebron. Jordan's why I grew up watching him, and I think he started it for everybody fair enough. It's the tiger of Tiger effective of basketball. Hey Man, safe travels. Thanks so much for telling us your story and joining us on the All Ball Podcast. Thank you very much. Thanks Mike, appreciate your time. Many later. I hope you enjoyed the All Ball Podcast. I'm dougl