Hey, welcome into the All Ball Podcast. I'm Doug Gottlieb and you can listen to the Doug Gottlieb Show whether it's on Sirius XM on a daily basis or on your I Heart Radio, Apple, Fox Sports Radio dot Com. Follow me on Twitter. We list all the available places in which you can get the Doug Gottlieb Show, and of course make sure you're not only download subscribe to rate us, but tell a friend have them download as well.
This week we're gonna deep take a deep dive into the Boston Celtics as well as to the d m V. My boy Darren Mclinton is going to join us. Uh. He was a tremendous planet player at James Madison played overseas I played with him in the c b A for a minute in usb L as well. Uh. He's not only a trainer but also in a you coach and a guy who just knows and loves hoop. I thought you'd enjoy me catching up with de Clint, who has his own podcast with his brother who played ball
in Maryland. I thought that would be uh interesting, entertaining and enlightening. Also joining us as Keith Smith, the covers the NBA for Yahoo's Sports. You can follow him on Twitter. He also does the Celtics blog as well. So I want to get you sense for what was going on with the sas maybe what's going on with the Wizards. I'll give you my my two cents here real quick
on a couple of things we've seen. I will point out this about the Houston Rockets, and I'm not laughing saying I told you so, because they're much worse defensively, much worse offensively now they've had, uh, you know, subtraction by addition, by bringing in Karmelo Anthony. I think some of that we saw in Fairness. In fairness, you know, they had they had a suspension with Chris Paul and
they got James Harden hurt. So if you lose Chris Paul for a couple of games, and you lose James Harden for a couple of games with with that top heavier team and that top heavier salary scale, you're not gonna be as good. On the other hand, it's really really hard to hide Carmelo Anthony. His game is one
that doesn't really fit in the modern pace. In space three and D, you know, spread you out NBA, and I think it's also a fair early even though some of their pieces are Um has some consistency him last year, it's still kind of a new team and they're still kind of figuring it out, so I'm not giving them a pass. They haven't played well. But neither of the Ocloma City played well. Neither is the Wizards played well. Neither of the Lakers played all that well. And some
of it is new pieces. Some of it is some guys learned to get along. Some of it is hey, other dudes in the NBA are tired of hearing about some of these other top teams and they're coming ready to play. And some of it is some of these teams aren't as good as we thought. I think there's a combination of it. But my my fear with Mellow is what happens when you signed him to the bench. I think you'll see some success coming off the bench.
It's just really hard for a guy who's always played thirty thirty five minutes and got starters minutes and been a go to guy to suddenly be an ancillary part. There's there's a pride nego thing to it, you know. Derrek Jeter Win moved to the one, moved to second base for a rod He should have but he didn't. And the Machifs. But people think the machiese moo basketball
is the only play. It's like, No, not necessarily. Lara fitzhild is one of the only wide receivers to move from being outside the number one threat to moving in the slot. You know, hinz War did it some as well, became a great blocker. But those guys are a few and far between. That that the that the evolution or um devolving, or well maybe it's evolving into understanding your
body and your age and how you fit in. That takes a supreme amount of kind of emotional balance and we don't necessarily create and foster that in the NBA when guys are seeing as superstars and a guy like Mello, who's the all time leading scorer of USA basketball. We'll dig in there with the day McClinton upcoming. My thoughts and the Lakers are I think Lebron is really trying. He's trying to play this new way of moving to basketball,
and I think he's picking his spots. For example, at the time of this recording, last night, they took down the Dallas Mavericks, had a big league kind of gave it away and survived late. He made only one or two free throws late. Um, but I think he's trying to move the basketball. And the third quarter he took over and side all right within the confines of the offense and in the transition. I think the problem is that they're waiting on Brandon England to play better. He
hasn't Rondo his first night he played well. Outside of that, hadn't played well and uh and and some of their best shooters aren't shooting the basketball. Well, that's happened with the Wizards, right like the Wizards didn't expect to play Yon Mihemi this many minutes, and they expected to shoot the basketball better. And just like Clay Thompson ends up, you know, going from a shooting slump to hitting fourteen threes in the game. Eventually, the expectation is Water finds
its level. But it's going to be curious to see what happens with Ingram. He has to play better because if there's one guy that could be moved, it would be Ingram. Remember he's the longest tenured laker, right, the longest he's the only guy drafted by Mitch cup Check I believe still on this roster, and they they I think they all think he has more in them, but
he hasn't played all of that well so far. It's one of the reasons the Lakers are struggled, although their schedule also being preyed totally difficult, and Jimmy Butler stepping up and making three fourth quarter threes is one of the reasons that three and five right now too. Um. As for the Thunder, a lot of people are talking about Andre Robertson still being out and Russell Westbrook not playing. That's why in preseason, that's why they're not playing as well.
It's important I think to mention our vision of Andre Robertson is he was before he got hurt. Now he had a major knee surgery and then a cleanup knee surgery. We have no idea his level of athleticism and bounce when he gets back. Um So, as far as the NBA goes, even the Celtics have been a little bit disappointing, and I think we gotta take a breath, see what we like, see what we don't like. Then Gordon Hayward has been a little too passive at times. Kyrie Irvan
has been a little too aggressive. We'll talk with ke Smith about that. But in the NBA, the team that is most interesting has to be the the Milwaukee Bucks because people in the league have talked about Nice and his ability to take over games, to take over the league, and he has Mike Budenholzer, who has done some made some nice adjustments, and I think they've kind of adjusted
the roster accordingly. I don't think they can keep up this that I gotta right undefeated, but I don't know if they'll keep up the pace of being the best team record wise in the East. Bud has done it before,
back when he was with the Atlanta Hawks. But I do think you combined a player who continues to improve his jump shot and his decision making with a team who's kind of played mostly together for a couple of years now, and a coach who fits how they want to play and understands how to utilize the spacing and also the length that and versatility has defensively, and maybe the Bucks of the team that we didn't talk enough about that have a legit shot to come out of
the East. And Janice is the type of game breaking, game changing player that we might be missing because because he's in Milwaukee, because he hasn't gotten to an NBA finals, because he's not playing for a traditional power in the NBA, we're not talking about enough. But it's gonna be fasting to see what what happens next. Al Right, quickly on college basketball, as we're getting ready for next week, we
have UM the showdown in Indianapolis. He had four premier college basketball programs, and I just I want you to start the season with this thought in your mind. Get old and stay old. As as I'll release my preseason rankings and my early season rankings. It's really hard to tell how good teams are going to be because we
don't know the pace by which the freshman will improve. UM, but I can tell you that teams like a Kansas State, teams like a Clemson, teams like a Wisconsin UM teams that that that bring back, teams like an Oregon State teams being that bring back a couple of the best players in their league that are juniors and seniors are Barry Brown and Trace Tinkle and Ethan hap Um. Even David's another other mean, he's only a sophomore obviously from Wisconsin.
But there's so much youth in college basketball that if you start the season with guys with experience in three, sometimes twenty four years old, you're gonna be ahead of
the curve. It's one of the reasons I think Clemson has an absolute shot, along with Virginia, to take down Duke in the a c C. Even if Duke has more draft picks, you know, more more first round draft picks, and the year, I think in the n c A Tournament we're likely to see some combination of Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Um, you know, Duke Kentucky, Kansas, who am most of my forgetting, uh, you know, in the final four. And then you have the Tennessee's in the Virginia's of the world. Oh, Gonzaga
as well. The Gonzaga of course, they have age, they have experience, They have transfers, which gives you age, an experience, and and the question about Gonzaga is always you know, they front load their schedule and they try and sprinkle in some non conference in the middle of their schedule.
But this is a really young St. Mary's team, as we chronicled with Randy Bennett in one of our previous All Ball podcasts, and the point is that I don't feel like Gonzaga is going to be as severely challenged in the w c C as they have before by teams like a B y u Is beating them twice on their court, or or like a St. Mary's who's
the last team to win the league. And when the league tournament outside of Gonzaga, so you know, we'll have to figure out what Gonzaga is and what the level of play is heading into the tournament when they have this kind of weirdly unbalanced schedule compared to everybody else. That said, it should be a fascinating college basketball season and hopefully most of the scandals have been put to
bed and we can actually enjoy it. And when when you when you watch Duke play and you're gonna fall in love with Zia Williamson's athleticism, Um, it's r. J. Barrett who's actually the better player. And then I think the fact that Duke has a true point guard makes me think that Duke can finally achieve what their talent says they can achieve. They have experience playing together going to Canada, they got a point guard, they have just
enough returners, just enough depth. I think they'll have enough shooting, especially if they play Zion Williamson at the five, definitely at the floor, and I think there'll be some games which they overwhelmed their opponents because even though they're exceptionally young, college basketball generally is young, so many have jettison college basketball to go to the NBA. But those are the five or six teams. The vat is of course hanging out there, and Auburn is hanging out there. We'll see
what else. The Pack twelve if an Oregon behind Peyton Pitchard and now incoming freshman Bull Bull can can make a run at the Pack twelve title and be another potential Final Four representative at USC as well. They they lose Um, a four year starter at point, which I think people are under selling. But USC a very very
talented roster as well. But the schools you need to know about outside of the Kansas States and the Clemsons and the Wisconsins and the older teams, maybe New Mexico as well, San Diego State as well, is Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Gonzaga, throw in Virginia can learning how good they were in the A C. C and how much they returned. I think that that's where your final four is likely to have two or three teams at least come from that that that group of teams. All right, let's get you
to the All Ball Podcast. Let's get you to some of the interviews of the week. Um he's a contributor to Yahoo Sports, NBA, at Real GM and to the Celtics Blog. Who better to talk about with maybe the most interesting team that is not discussed enough, I think on a national basis in the Boston Celtics. Keith Smith
joins us here in the All Ball Podcast. And Keith, we're coming off of watching Kyrie Irving breakout last night and and get a big home victory over a Pistons team that has played really well out of the gate. But I think that the bigger question is here we are, when we two weeks into the NBA season. How would you characterize what you've seen from the Celtics so far? Yeah, a little up and down, in a little messy, I
guess is the best way to put it. It's it's tough when you're bringing back Kyrie Irving and Gordon Henward and adding was two players who are really guys who need the ball a lot, you know, you said, being the ones that kenned an offense, and you're adding to them to a team that came with a game of the NBA Finals. It's bound to be a little messy, but I think they're starting to figure it out. Seen signs of that over the last couple of games. And you know, it's one of those things. I know everyone
in Boston is. You know, they were a little nervous early off, like it was what the team feel like, it'll be okay, we're gonna get this sorted out turned around them later. Yeah, It's it's kind of interesting because, yes, the Raptors are off to a hot start and saw them get a big home win last night, and the Bucks are undefeated. But like, look, if you don't like the way the Celtics are playing, you're gonna hate the way the team, like the Rockets are playing right or
the way the Wizards are playing. So it hasn't been as smooth a transition as people would hope. But it's not like they're the Rockets where all of a sudden there's finger pointing, or the Wizards where people are talking about trading. Players are firing coaches already. Yeah, absolutely not, there's not that going on. These guys all get along great,
they're all you're really happy. I think thing that really helps is you have a group of players there in Boston who are extremely honest about what their role are and what their hopes are, both for themselves and for
the team. You have guys like Terry Reginior Marcus Morris who are on the record they ensure, I'd love to start, but I know that's not going to happen here, and I know what my role is and I want to win right now and starting and more money and those things that will come down the line if it's supposed to. So it's one of those things where rarely do you have guys who are so open about their role in
the NBA and then also accepting of that role. And that's where you know Boston's likely compared to a couple of those other teams you mentioned, where I think guys have a falsely inflated view of what their role maybe should be within their team or really even just how good their teams should be. Yeah, it's it's fascinating. Let's talk about Kyrie because there was some discussion I think Tommy Hinson said he thought he looked heavy, which I hadn't heard from anybody. Maybe it was that, maybe it
was his haircut or his beard or something. Um, I was old in the preseason and in training camp he looked great. He just wasn't hitting shots either in the year. And you know, Kyrie is a as a guy whose game is really based upon his shot making. Everything else falls into place. Of course. You know, we're recording this podcast on Wednesday after Kyrie in a back to back matchup with the Pistons, lights them up, goes for thirty one and only sixteen shots. That places as the fishing
of basketballs he has all season long in Europinian? Was he out of shape? Was there something that changed? What's your assessment of why at least shooting percentage wise? He struggled. Yeah, that one came out of nowhere for me as well. I had heard that until I really mentioned laughter the game against the Pistons on Tuesday night, and you know, here we are now. It's kind of become a little bit of a story that you know, I glad to give myself in better shape since Tommy Hunton called me fat.
You know that seems a little a little out of nowhere, because all the reports were that he looked good. For my own view, he looked great. I thought he looked physically fine. You know, he was quick, he was explosive, He really had his you know, handle going and moving. And I think it was just the reality of missing the shots came from two places. One, he was taking some contested jump shots that you weren't really in the
flow of the offense. I think, trying to get himself going, which I think that's a big chunk of what has changed over these last few games. I think Brad Stephen Jerry said, hey, we got to move the ball, get back to the team we were for all last year,
and you know, your shots will come. And then I think the second one, he was um taking a lot of these looks that were coming, you know, in points of the game where I felt like he maybe felt I have to carry the offense here and didn't have the trust and some of those younger guys like Jaylen Brown Jason Tatum, because you know, he missed that whole playoff run. So now that it's settled back in and now he's able to kind of just function within the offense and then pull it out when he really has to.
It's starting to look a lot better, and he started to look like the Kyrie Irving Evold. And then I feel like Gordon Hyward's the opposite. Like I feel like Gordon Hayward, who was a low twenty game All Star with Utah Jazz. He's like like Kyrie is a you know, your force of will. I'm gonna show everybody how good I am take questionable shots, whereas Gordon Hayward has been a little bit too passive and tried to fit in
a little bit too much. Is that a fair assessment of why statistically he hasn't been um as good or maybe as important as ultimately he will he will or should be. Yeah, I think that is fair. I think Gordon Hayward, I think one of the things that attracted him to coming to Boston. You know, even before Kyrie was very agreed. You know, when I saw Isaiah Thomas was I don't think he wants to be in a situation where I'm the man and I have to shoot it every time down. I think he wants to be
part of their system and part of something bigger. And I think for him, what it is is, but you need to take those shots when you have them, and when you have the mismatch, you need to take advantage of that. That's when the Celtics offense works best. They they're really good at guy I taught, wentlessly hunting mismatches. They find the guy who has the best uh chance to score, and they'll go to him over and over again. I think that's something that Heyward has to get that mindset.
And again more startency did not come a little and one thing that's hoping can get there. They're putting the ball in his hands a lot and saying, hey, you be the playmaker here, but the other guys play off You the one that's scoring it for himself or get setting somebody else up. We're seeing you know him, you know, excel at doing both of those. I think that's a great point. It's you know, he actually plays a good amount of what you would call point guard or playmaker.
Brad is very comfortable with him playing any position one through five. I do think he's probably, you know, the most natural passer you know, Brad. Brad was trying to convince me this summer when we're talking that you know, Kyrie Evering's one of the five best pastors in the league. I was like, well, that'd be great if he showed the rest of the world how good a pastor he is. Um, but I think I think Kyrie has the capability, not the mindset, whereas Gordon has some of the capability but
a lot of the mindset. And it is It's one of those guys. It's one of those things that we I think that's why he's the right fit. And people, Uh, if you don't watch the Celtics as much as as you do Keith, you don't realize. You're like, wait, well, how's this all gonna work. You have to have guys that are willing to sacrifice themselves in order for Jason Tatum ultimately to become what he can become, or Jalen
Brown to become what he can become. And then, as you smartly pointed out, this is the new wave of the NBA, which is relentlessly searching for mismatches. The difference with the Celtics as opposed to like a Lebron James lead team is, you know, Lebron James team, You're just trying to get a mismatch on Lebron and then create help and then he kicks off for a jump shot, Whereas the Celtics have so many guys that can score simply moving the basketball. The mismatch will then present itself.
Right that. That's more the way in which Brad's system and with this personnel it works, isn't it. Yeah? I think the way I refer to it as it's it's manufacturing a mismatch. We're swetting it come naturally. I think the Lebron example you use, that's manufacturing that mismatch. We saw that when the Felt explained the Cavaliers last year in the playoffs, they did everything they could to get Terry Roger matched up with Lebron James because Lebron just
gonna overpower him and do whatever he wants. With the Celtics, what they do is they just kind of let the ball flow, cause the defense to react, and then they find it generally somewhere, you know, halfway through the Shaw Clalker Show. So okay, here's what switched, here's what what was created. Now let's get to that guy. And that may not mean it's the same guy all game long. It may just mean play to play, or we found the right one. Let's get after to get that shot. Here.
Here's what I want to do. I want to go through the teams that since he watched every game, go through the team to me one quick thought on for example, the Pistons go. Yeah, Blake Griffin I think has been really really game. I think he is really stepping up. I think you know, he is, you know, get the ball in his hands a lot. I'm really excited to see him develop into that kind of truly being the
franchise guy and stepping forward for Detroit. Yeah. With interesting is how much he struggled in that game in Detroit in which they were blown out. Obviously played much much better in the game in Boston, but this, you know, coming off of the explosive fifty fifty point game he struggled against against the Seas going back to last Saturday, Um, the Thunder finally got a big win last night, but when Boston traveled in there, it felt like a playoff
atmosphere and Jayson Tatum played great. When you see the Thunder, what do you think? Yeah, I think what it's there. It just still something doesn't feel right with their offense. It feels almost like it did when Kevin Durant was there was your turn, my turn, a little bit of that with Russ and Paul George. I know, you know, Russ missed all the training camp. He's really still kind of playing himself the game to a full peak, you know ability there. But there's just something that's an employed
did they miss Andre Robertson? People still under aid his importance to that team. Everybody says, I can't hit a free throw and can't hit a three, but that dish regards just how good he is defensively and against the team like Boston or even a team like Golden State. Teams like that, you need his defense and they're really
missing it right now. Yeah, and then the question becomes when he does return having an a c L injury and then having a back up another surgery, is he ever going to be the Andre Robertson athletically of old like that? You know, that's a legit question in addition to the fact that you're playing four on five on offense.
You can make up for it if he's that good a defensive player and rebounder, but if he loses a step defensively, will that team ever live up to what I think their potential is um your thoughts on the Orlando Magic, a franchise which seems to have been in rebuild mode now here for the last five years or so. Uh Bushovic Obviously Vic is a very talented player, but um, you know they paid Aaron Gordon a bunch of money. I don't think he'll ever be a stretch let alone
with three men when you see Orlando. Is there hope there? Yeah? I think there's some hope, but it's you have to project it down the line a little. You have to believe in Jonathan I like Mo Bamba and Aaron Gordon are going to be able to develop and met the three of them are going to be able to play together on the floor, And then you're gonna have to hope that John Willman and Jeff Hammond are able to go find cards that fit around them, because right now
they just don't have enough shooting. The only confidence shooter on the roster is Terence Ross and your Russell let a fly from anywhere on the floor. You get that, a rational confidence, if you will. But the rest of the guys, it's just rough there there you are, you know, they're they're guys who should be good backups on a good team instead of being starters for the Magic, which
is why they're in the position they're in right now. No, I mean, like, listen, if you want length and athleticism, Gordon, you mentioned Jonathan Isaac who is super versatile, and Mo Bamba, who you would think two or three years from now projects, But they're all just kind of long athletic range Like this, this has become a game where you need that, but you also need skill. It's a it's a shotmakers league, and they don't have any shotmakers, let alone, let alone
true ball handlers as well. All right, last one is the Toronto. Well I'm gonna get this way to the Sixers too. The Raptors beat the Celtics in Toronto, obviously their second game of the year. But the sense you get when you watch Toronto you think Kauai can take them a further step now that Lebron's not in not in the Eastern Conference. Yeah, I really do. And the thing with the Raptors is just everything fits so well with them. Everybody knows what their role is, everybody's content
to play that role. You've got really it's gonna be Kyle Lowry and Kauai are going to be the ones who get us our offense, and then everybody else is going to play off the two of them. Danny Green looks like, you know, the guy who he looked like with the Spurs a few years ago. You know, he's playing great defense and knocking down every open jumper he gets,
and then the Bigs are doing some stuff. Pascal Siaka has come almost from out of nowhere as this guy who all of a sudden, he's defending, he's bringing the ball up. He gets a little out of control sometimes. But but I think that's almost okay because they leave them a little more unpredictable. So I think the there's you know, they still get that deep bench too, so
they're they're gonna be really toxic. It's one of those things where when you watch them play Boston is only the second game of the season for both teams, where you really said, well, I hope we could get seven games of this compass brain. Yeah. I guess my fear is I do think that Lowry hits his ceiling once he gets to the playoffs. That guys lock in on him a little bit more. And you know, he's about six feet tall, he's in his early thirties. He's gonna
be like thirty three here in March. And I think one of the things that people don't talk enough about with Toronto is there are times in which he struggles with the longer, better point guards and and teams you know, much more focused on it. But I agree with you. I mean, like, look, if last year you had your best season ever and you had to Mark de Rosen, you get rid of them Rosen, and you add in Kauai, and you add in a guy like Danny Green, who is a perfect fit for the way in which they
want to play, the Raptors should be better. I still think the Celtics are better, but I'm not I'm not convinced as of yet that the Celtics have figured out exactly who does what and when they do it. Last one is the Philadelphia seventy sixers. Um look and beads. A guy who everybody likes because of his personality and what he can be. Everyone likes Ben Simmons because of his ability to create for himself and for others. But there seems to be a post of shooting there as well.
And I'm not convinced the folk you'll be able to fix folds during the years nobody's guarding him. When you see the seventy sixers, are they are they going to take that next step this year? Yeah? I don't think they're going to take that step further than really what they were this year or this past season. They should say they are in a spot where they're chief rivals of Yeast. Boston and Toronto are just are horrible matchups
for them. Because the Celtics they do two things. One may play that seventy sixers, they say, all right, we're gonna we're just gonna drop off Ben Simmons because he isn't not going to shoot. We're not worried about him shooting at all. And then they have enough side that most teams they'll drop off him, but he's still think he can still get to where he wants to go, you know, even though guys are giving him three and four steps. Celtics have enough side that they can still
hold their own when he gets there. And then the other thing they do is they bring in Aaron Banes and say sign embid. You might dunk on him once, but the other ten possessions he's just gonna be up in your face for shooting and stupid stuff and taking these terrible shots. And then that's where Ebid just plays right into it because he's still, you know, is in the sense at this point in his career he wants
to beat guys and go act guys. And we see this, you know, with certain guys and Aaron bans Is that guy Baines doesn't care if you dunks on him. Banes is like, that's fine, I'll shut you down on the other ten possessions. I have no issue in Toronto. We saw it the other night. They're starting to play them
the exact same way. So Philadelphie's definitely get some problems and a lot of it does revolve around the shooting as well as they just don't have another creator off the dribble other than Simmons unless Bolts can get there, and then that's only two and I don't know that that's enough to win when you're you know, getting into the playoffs, and playoffs is being about, is about care, get in your own offense. If you can't do that, things that are going to break down and really get
tough for you. I think it's fast thing. It's fasting. Let me I said that was the last thing. Why are they Why are the Wizards so bad? It just doesn't It's a lot of personality in one room, and Dwight Howard's coming back, and I don't know that that's going to make things any better, you know, to kind of conditioned at this point to believe that's probably gonna
make things worse. I just it feels like it's one of those where they've been together too long to you know, we're going into year four is five of this same group. We have the same core guys all together. And when you when you're not winning at a high level, like say Golden State, is when it's the same guys together all the time, they just wear on each other and it's really time to break it up, and unfortunately wear Withking at it and you're saying, how are they going
to break it up? They've got all these terrible contracts. They've only got five players with guaranteed salaries next year, and they're already over the salaries cap just those five players. So it's one of those where, if you look at it, it, I don't know how this gets better unless they can really get somebody to take on for every deal or
on the quarter and just break things up. And I think that might be the direction I have to go is just break things up, go in a different direction and see if just change for change sake, spark something in Washington. Keith Smith, he's awesome stuff, great information, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate you joining us in the All Ball podcast. Absolutely thanks for having me. I appreciate it. One of the most important things we do for our health every day this brush your teeth.
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u i P dot com slash Doug. This is a special trade guy I've been trying to get on the All Ball podcast and we'll have to do a longer version where he's gonna tell stories about playing overseas and giving it to dudes and UH and growing up in the d m V and all the guys he knows. But he's a he's a former pro bowler who was a tremendous, tremendous scoring point guard. He's turned into a
skill development guru. He's a coach. He's got the McClinton Basketball Academy Worst of Team Takeover, he's got the McClinton All Stars. Uh from UH from Maryland, USA, and follow him on Twitter at d MAC Basketball, Darn McClinton joints us Uh Darren. Now, you guys have your own pod right now, which tell me about your own podcast that Jeff, Yes,
we do. It's called the Hot Box and I started it um based on you know, there's still a lot of guys in this area we still played basketball in and go at it because we're still competitors, a lot of former former players. And afterwards we go into the sauna, man, and we just talked sports and talk junk and and you know, kick ideas off each other and argue and all of it encompassed, and you know, getting a sweat and and and and cooling off after the after you know,
getting it in on the court. So you know, I like, you might as well just take that idea and and you know, get on the air with it. So, so who is doing it for about it a year. It's my It's myself and my brother. He's a former point guard at University of Maryland. So your brother was play Maryland.
You played James Madison. So he was really better than you, right, So that's it starts with with that, is like, look, he was more highly recruited, more highly touted, and so that little inferior or the time plex I think it comes up all the time, right, it does? It does? We argue, We go back and forth. We uh, you know, some people that listened to the show, they asked who's better. You know, he's humble, and you know I got something
to prove. So it comes up a lot. Okay, so let's let's get to a couple of things that I mean, you're perfect for this. Um uh, Let's start with the Wizards. They have John Wall Brad Beal. I don't, I don't really. I mean, I know Scott Brooks and we had him on the podcast, so he kind of explained the Dwight Howard thing, like, look but I don't I don't know
when Dwight Howard since Orlando a long time ago. It hasn't really worked in terms of the team, but he hadn't played yet, so we can't blame their dysfunction on Dwight Howard. What the hell's the matter with the Whiz? Now? I have two things with the Wizards now. First off, there awful rebounded team. They're lasting, re total rebound um and the presence in the middle. Uh now marching Gore Toon who is now with the Clippers. They we traded him away and he's a former teammate of mine. We
played together in Germany. He he wasn't the inside physical force that you you kind of want to see, but he was a total team guy man, and he he did a lot of a lot of things that don't show up in the statue that clearly the Wizards are missing right now. Um, Dwight Howard has yet to suit up, so I can't say anything more than he'll be a rin protector. He'll change that. Um, he'll be able to start the fast break immediately with the shot blocking ability
and rebound ability. But uh, it's it's yet to be seen. He's supposed to debut on Friday against the when the Thunder come to town, so we'll see. But okay, but okay, so that's one. So rebounding is one, and Dwight Howard can rebound. Although like, look, the game has so changed now because the game is so spread out that you know, you have to you have to have a guy who runs. You have to have a guy who sprints to a rebound, right. You gotta Jordan Bell types guys that run into rebound
both offensively and defensively. And the thing that they have with Gore Tott was like, look, he frustrated him because he's standing on there with with his hand up and um, and you know wants the ball, and those guys are like, look, that's not you know, in terms of efficiency wise, posting up is not a good is not is not terribly efficient.
But there were other things that he brought. He brought toughness, he said, you know, he said good screens, which I think I think, you know, but loosen like like Andrew Bogat. People don't realize how important he was for the first championship for the Warriors, right because like that dude said great screens and sometimes the legal screens. So when you're guarding Steff, you don't have to worry about Steff. We had to worry about sometimes running into Andrew Bogat, who's
a huge human being. Gore Todd had some of that. So maybe they undervalued him and we'll see how it works with with with the twelve. I guess the big question, maybe this is your second part. Can Wall and b O co exist? And that's my second part is the it's the locker room because you know, and you're you're a point guard like myself, and you know that leadership
starts at the point guard position. And and just as recent as after the last game, I listened to the presser, the postgame pressor, and they were talking to John Wall, and he was stating, how, you know, it's up to him, he's got to, you know, galvanize these guys and get them get them together and and and get out of this slump. And then they talked to Bradley Bill and he's saying it's up to him that they've got he's got a galvinize the guys and bring them together, and
he takes the blame for that. Um, I don't think it can be both of them. And so one is telling the truth and one is not so. And they're posted elite All Star players. And I'd be fine if they were saying if Wall said me and being Bill or me and Brad and then Bill said, yeah, me and John that we've gotta you know, we've got to get these guys raised, these guys level. But they were each saying me and and and I just there's something
about that. And after the Clipper game. After the Clippers game, DC Rivers said, the first thing that Scotty Brooks said to him was, you guys really look like you all love planning with each other, and you know you play together as a team, So there's something to be said there as well. And I don't think that the locker room problems is a is a fixed by D twelve. He's not. He hasn't been a great locker room guy, you know in his past as well, So I don't
think him coming into the myths. You know, he hasn't. He hasn't showed up yet. And and the togetherness is what they need. And he you know, he didn't he had to go on tour in China, UM when the team had their outing out in UH in California, so he wasn't there for that either. You know, there's there's a lot to be said with you know, continuity and cohesiveness that that starts in nof season three, when you
got a new free agent coming in town. Why do you think, um, why do you think that the thunder has struggled? WHOA? I don't know whether they're gonna try to start uh shrewder and and and UM Westbrook together even when UM Robson comes back. I think Robson missing these two months is really hurting them. UM, great defender, great team guy, great blue guy. UH, and then bringing shrewder In, who's a starting point guard UM into you know,
Russ's town, which is see I see. I think I think if you go back to when Russ had k D and they went to the finals, obviously James Harden is better than Shrewder. I'm not not sitting here, but but what the thunder guys told me, then Scotty told me, then the front office guys like, look, as good as Russ is as a point and he's dynamic, you put him off the ball where he doesn't have to worry
about running things, just gets it and goes. And I think that whether they start him or not, I do think that they want that to be their finishing group. And you mentioned continuity, but like, look, if you don't have Russ for the whole preseason and now of a sudden you're trying to do it's hard on fly. It's like it's like Mark hell Folds trying to fix his jump shot on the fly. Like you need a long
time together to get cohesiveness. And there's great expectations of Russell Westbrook two years in row AFGENI and triple double. There's a great expectation that team because everybody thought, well Paul George's back second year, more cohesive, they'll start winning right away. I actually I still think that will work. My fear with the Thunder is there's this hope they're holding out hope for robertson coming back and being the same dude. You come aft off two surgeries and the
same knee, You're not gonna be the same athletically. And that's his whole game is defense and rebounding. That that's really my fear with this team. I think the rest of the stuff kind of gets worked out. Yeah, it's all about how you finish and that and not how you start. And you made a great point about you know what, which team with which lineup they want to finished games with UM and go down to stretch with. And I do think it will end up being shrewder
and and Russ in there together. Uh, it'll take some time. It'll take time to iron out because you know, I worked with UM Jeremy Grant in the off season. He's from here as well, and you know he we were working on some pick and roll stuff and I I was telling him, I was like, you know, where where do you usually get it? And he kind of told me when you're dealing with Russ, you know, you just gotta be ready to get it whenever. You never, you know,
you just gotta play off of him. So that's you know, that's different from you know, if if Shrewder's hand on the ball. So you know, there's some things that we'll we'll get ironed out. And I think, uh, down the stretch, they'll they'll be in the mix. Um. Yeah, but it's just it's gonna take. It's gonna take some time. Shrewder was gonna show the whole reseason. Do you like Lebron
with the Lakers? Yes, Actually I do. I do. Um. I think Lebron is kind of coasting right now, and he's so good that he can do that because he's giving he's giving guys, you know, an opportunity to to really express themselves, Guys like Josh Hart, guys like uh Brandon Ingram. You know, they're coming into their own and and and I think that when it comes down to the nitty gritty, Lebron is just gonna take games over.
And that's what that's what happens when you get towards playoff time and uh second half of the season after the Christmas break, so all after the All Star break, I think the Lakers will be fine. I think they'll be better, and I think they're still trying to. I agree with you, he's trying to figure out who can play and who can't play. I think they're trying to figure out, you know, Alonso or Rondo. They played Rondo
down the stretch against Minnesota. I thought that was a mistake, even though Alonzo wasn't playing well that night, just because Alonzo can make he can make a catch and shoe jump shot. Rondo is doing so many other little things, but can't. You won't even take a catch and shoe jump shot. And they they do need, they need some of their shotmakers to jump up and make shots. I like Heart more off the bench than I do as a starter. I think sometimes his ceiling kind of gets exposed.
And I know I'm talking a bad about guys from your area, but I'm not really talking bad about Heart. I think he's a really good player. I just think like that's a hard position. Like you know, Jimmy Butler can just jump up and shoot over him. He's just bigger and a little bit better, right, Um he's and he's an energy guy as well. Yes, you know, as you know energy guys. You know, if you play them long periods the time and long stretches, you know some
some of their weaknesses do show. Yeah, No, I mean, look, that's the that's the part that I don't think. I don't think people do a good enough job on TV and sometimes on radio of understanding that that positions like there's different guys for different roles, and like a Josh Hart coming off the bench as a six man, even if he plays the exact same minutes as a starter, you're matching up usually against inferior players. He gives him a chance to ramp up the energy, kind of change
the tempo of a game. There's a lot of starting card, there's a lot of guards, like like I would I would contend that Shrewder is the is another example of that. Like I don't love Shrewder playing thirty five minutes a game, playing forty minutes a game. But if he plays, you know, twenty five minutes a game, and you go, hey, man, when Russ is out, I want you to just go
and try and score an attack. And when Russ is in the game, I need you to, you know, beyond the ball defensively so he can chill a little bit and I need you to facilitate a little more. I think that's sometimes guys have specific roles that they fit in. Some of it's about who they match up with, some of it's about kind of the pace of the game, and some of it's about just the makeup of guys.
You have to know the makeup of those guys. And I kind of think that's what Lebron and frankly Luke Walton is trying to figure out, because like you and I know that you and I know this, and and other people don't. They see it, but they can't really express it. It's that last year with the Lakers, people weren't getting up for Laker games like they were crummy, like they were bad, and they had a bunch of
young guys. Now you're now every game that you step on the floor of Lebron James, that's like a playoff game. And so you have no idea how Brandon Ingram is going to react in a real game or how For example, is Jimmy Butler like he ain't been playing that great and all of a sudden he plays out of his mind. Why because he's playing against Lebron James and the Lakers, a franchise he might want to play play with this season or next season, and he's trying to show out
for them. I think that. I think that Luke and Lebron. Yeah, it's it's a different It's the same sport, but it's a different game. Yeah, now that The thing about playing with a guy named a guy like Lebron is every possession when he kicks out to you, you're expected to make that shot, you know, and if you don't, if you can't consistently make it, you know, you're under that microscope.
And now and now they're saying, you know, normally these guys are considered pretty good shooters, but you know, it's a more pressured shot when it's coming from Lebron because he needs you to knock that down, as you know, in your role with that team. And now they're saying that Lakers have you know, shooting woes him major problems on the perimeter. Uh where if guys were able to just relax and shoot their normal shot, you know, I think they shoot a higher percentage. It's it's tough to
playing alongside Lebron, you know, no, no, listen, Chris Bosh. Uh, Miles Simon is one of my closest friends. I remember, you know, he was Chris Bosh's guru and Chris Bosh would say, like, look, Lebron's gonna get Lebron has no problem passing to people. He and he gives you a good path, he gives it to You're right in your shot pocket, right where you wanted. But you've better making the first half or he is not going to pass you in the second half like he just he You've
got to earn his trust. If you earn his trust, he'll always find you. He does not care, but you've got to earn his trust. And I think those guys are struggling with the level of play being amped up and the level of importance of every shot, whether it's the pressure of it or the expectations of of Lebron. Now, are you a Lebron guy or a Jordan guy? Jordan guy? What Jordan's the ultimate competitor. Jordan's has that killer instinct. I compare Kobe more to Jordan's than I do Lebron
to Jordan's. Um. I think if they play, if they were to played one on one, and I've seen and I've seen this, Uh people have brought this up. They played one on one, Jordan would win regardless of Lebron's Uh. Size advantage. I think Jordan would win because Jordan will cut your throat to beat you. I agree with you. I'm completely with you. It's it's a way of and I think it's it's basketball is so different than anything else, especially to basketball players generally. And you tell me if
I'm wrong. Every level I've ever played at, the guy who's your best player at the end of the game, you give him the ball and sometimes even if it's a questionable shot, you have a feeling that he's gonna take it and he's gonna make it. And Lebron it's just different in that he has always been willing to let his teammates make those shots, even if he starts with the basketball. He's told people like he gets great joy out of other guys making shots, other guys win
winning games. It's just that it's a different sort of wiring. And people equated to Magic Johnson, but people good but Magic. We had the killer instinct, Dude, Magic would he made the biggest guy hook in the lane. And so I do think that for the best of the best, like those guys are licensed killers. And I think I don't think Lebron, even though he's made more shots recently. Um, I don't think he's wired the same way as those guys.
And that's why I think a lot of former players, plus you know, we we saw Jordans, We lived the Jordan thing. We understood all the different shots and ways in which guys were draped all over him. The game was different. You couldn't play downhill, you couldn't play you know, guys were hand checking you, and there was a powerfulward in the lane as well as the center in the lane. And now oftentimes there's nobody in the lane, and so it's a much easier path for for him. So it's
a different sport. But I tend to agree with you. All right, here's here's a question, Um, who's better Kevin Durant or Lebron James right now? Ah, that's the tough one. Um, I'm gonna go with Lebron. Kevin Durant a better scorer, Kevin Durant, He's closing the gap and I would say that probably equal as far as a defender, Um, Lebron a little bit of reputation defensively, A little bit reputation
defensively because he can't guard guards anymore. He doesn't move like he used to and he's smartly you're watching now. He guards a lot of centers, so he can take some plays off. But you know, I think his story right on a money A lot of his block shots are from chasing and a lot of his block shots come from off the ball where Kevin Durant, she'll get on the ball block shots. And he's and you're right. You know his wingspan is he's able to slide his
feet with he moves like a guard. Umh Lebron used to move like that, uh, you know, some years some years back. But I just think um Lebron's ability to guard from the five two some twos you know, UM that versatility too, and to be able to to bang in the post a little bit, uh and be more physical than um than k D. I say it's almost almost even on the defensive end, but overall and effect on the winning uh to go along with those skills offensively and defensively, I give the slight edge to Lebron
right now. Even though Katie's a home guy, homegrown, No, I'm asking, I have all homegrown questions for you. Okay, here here's one. Are you are you willing to admit that that Carmelo is going to ruin the Rockets. It's it's looking that way. And I said, and I said
this on my podcast. My brother was saying that he was going to ruin the the Rockets, and I was like, you can't as offensively minded as d' antonio and the Rockets are that you you've got to think that he's gonna add some value to them and uh and give Chris Paul some really good options on offense. But you know, his lack of defense and his lack of conditioning is
it's glaring right now. And you know, with with Harden out, it's it's it's looking bad for the for the Rockets, there's you know, they're trying everything they can to get bring Butler in. Um. I don't know how he is as far as the locker room guy. UM. I know that, I know that Chris Paul is a is a fiery type leader. Um and and I don't know how that's working out, but he's he seems to be detrimental to that team right now. Yeah, I mean, I I do think I actually think some of it. Over the last
couple of years, there's been more effort defensively. I think his body now is kind of shot and he's kind of washed. And I also think his game, he was the best score in the league. What what Kevin Durant is now? He was you could go back five seven years ago, but remember he was amazing in the mid range, in the post and probably the weakest part of his game, but he could do it was was shooting the three.
And now once he's become kind of a secondary or even tertiary player on offense, it's it's much more about shooting jump shots. And that's that's not his game. Like his his game takes to give me the ball, get out of the way. Yes, and and you know what people do understand, right, this is the it's like the hardest part of for you for example, right, and for people don't know, Darren was a great I think scoring
point guard. Right that you could get the ball and you could go get buckets and probably if you were coming out of college now, I think you would have an even better shot of making it. Is that a fair fair way of especially as a backup guard, to come in and just get buckets? Huh Okay. So, so as as the game is evolved, it's kind of evolved
in your favorites evolved against him. But the hardest part about making it in the pros when you're when you're coming in as a backup is all of us from the time we started, like fifth grade, sixth grade, we had the ball in our hands a bunch. We had a ton of a volume of touches, a volume of possessions, a volume of opportunities to take shots. And now you get to the NBA and you're like, hey, listen, you're gonna play against better players. You're gonna play half as
much time as you used to. You're gonna have to shoot from further out against better competition, and you're gonna get a quarter of the shots you used to and you got to shoot a higher percentage than That's a really hard he's having to make that adjustment as like a thirty whatever he is, thirty three year old man, Like that's thirty four year old, thirty five year old dude.
That's really hard to do when you've done one thing what he has been a go to score, get me twenty five shots a game since birth and now the sudden old dog new tricks. It's really really hard to learn. And his body is a little shot and his game doesn't fit the way the Rockets or really the NBA is trending. You're right, you can't. It's it's very hard. I'm not gonna say you can't, but it's very hard.
Like you said, to ask a volume shot guy to become a corner three jump shooter and be efficient in a less amount of time with the less amount it's it's, it's it's very hard to do. All right. Did his podcast called God of his Caliber? That's that's the leading scoring team USA history. And you know, with all the accolades and the way he's gotten it done in the past, every everybody said, everybody says, hey, I'll sacrifice, I want
to win a championship. And then all of a sudden, you're getting five shots a game and maybe you're out at the end of the fourth quarter. You're like, but that's that's not really the way I saw it playing. Right. Here's here's the most important question that you're going to use on the hot box on your next podcast. The best player from the d m V to never make it is who to never make it? Yes? Like, like in California, there's a guy named Jimmy Man, and there's
Shake Cotton right. Shake Cotton is on the cover Sports Illustrated eighth grade right. And Shay was left handed, beast six five when he was like a freshman in high school and never played the game in the NBA. So when I say didn't make it, you could have made it and played a little bit in college, but made it to the league. And you're like, everybody who grew up around here knows this dude should have made it.
Whether it was drugs or women, or bad luck or making the decisions off the court, on the court with coaching or whatever. He never made it. Who's Who's your guy? There are a lot of those cases from from from the DC area. This is this is an unbelievable hot bed for basketball. It's a tough question. I would have to say, Um, if I was to go with one, it would be Stacy Robinson Sr. Stacy Robinson's a year
tell me god Heim. As a player, it was McDonald's all Americans, you know, his parade, all Americans, all that out of Dunbar High School here in Washington, d C. He was bigger. Phelps called him the best high school player in the country, hands down, coming out of high school. And you know, he had some issue substance abuse issues and uh, you know, behavioral things that kept him from you know, even playing in college. So you know it's
stopped after high school. And who who It's scary to know, you know how far he would have taken his game if he didn't have those things in place. And it's it's a lot of guys uh like that, but that's the one that would stand out for me, uh first and foremost. Now, now you are super close, you're super close with franchise with Steven Francis, who of course did make it, But I would say the lasting image of Franchise is a guy who didn't live up to his potential.
Was it just off the court? Is that? Is that? Why? Is it? Why? Why? Why did Steven Francis not last as long in the NBA or have as big an impact as they should have? It was also injury. Um. A lot of Steve's game was predicated on athleticism and explosiveness. UM. And you know guys like uh Stadomeyer come to mind, Mcdyce come to mind when they had that micro fracture surgery that takes away their explosiveness. You know the difference between Steve was six to six three on a good night.
And these guys were you know, so they can kind of change their game and still be effective. But it's hard when you're um, when you're when you're a guard, an explosive point guard at that and and that is in your game and a lot of that is taken away from you. So I would say, you know, a combination of those two. Yeah, he's bad boy though, whet he Oh my goodness, Yeah, I've he could do some things athletically that I you know, I could only only
dream of and have never seen before. We used to work out together in the summertimes, and you know, running a four hundred, he was doing it at track star level, you know, Olympic track star level without stretching. It was I had, like I got stories for days, you know that, And I know we're gonna we're gonna tell some of these stories in an upcoming podcasts. You're just a ton
of great information. By the way, what's funny about Steve Francis is you'd be like, did he have a good NBA career for like, like, dude average to over twenty game three different years, like for a six three guard. And that's one of those things to which you know, it's it's weird. It's it's like Stephon Marbury, who has like a museum in China, right, Like Stephan Marby was an All Star. Like but Stepan Marbury could have been, you know, a perennial All Star, could have been, but
I think he didn't live up to it. And he had some of the off the court stuff and also his game was so based on athleticism as well that the lack of development of some of the basketball IQ stuff and when to do what I think, you know, kind of hurt him. But um, Steve Francis was an unbelievable player. Man, what a what a talent? How can someone download your podcast? All right, it's uh, we're right now. We're on Facebook Live. The page is First Amendment Sports
with the number one st Amendment Sports. And as soon as you like the page and follow the page, the podcast will come on. We go every Tuesday every Tuesday night. UM, we will soon be on UM. Well have have it on our YouTube page as well, UM for everybody to download. But it's it's just it's a great, uh show about the DMV area. UM red Skins, We're all heart Redskin fans, Wizards, nationals, uh in capitals. You know, we just we just got to say, are you gonna talk keep you don't, don't
don't start talking hockey. Come on, man, you got to talking hockey. Well, our show is the hot Box and it's a it's a basketball they show. We also have, uh, we also have other other podcasts on under First Amendment Sports, which our producer, he does a really good job of covering all everything d n V. But but we go national to I like to talk about the NBA as a whole and the whole n C Double A and yeah, we've got the We cover the w C a C which is the Catholic League here and in d d
n V UM. So we just got a two year deal to covert that conference. You know, you know all the games that we're gonna be streaming them. So I'm pretty excited about what we got going forward. Well, listen, I'm happy for You'm happy that you're you're helping so many guys trying and fulfill their basketball dreams. More importantly, happy they'd love to catch up. That's because I don't what what you don't know is like I always came
in with the mentality. Wherever I was, I struggled to be come be friendly with other guys that played my position, you know, like in college when I was in Oklahoma State, Joe Atkins one of best friends, but he played he played the two guards he played with me, right, So when when you and I were going at it with whether it's in the c BA or with the Oklahoma Storm,
we're on the same team. Like, I just struggle with him, Like this guy is so cool to me and he's so nice and I like him so much, but we're fighting for the same minute. It was such a conflict. But but but I I learned from watching you that like, look, you can you can want to kick somebody's ass every day and still be boys with them, right, and and still really really enjoy their presence. But I I will tell you that before I met you, I had never
experienced that. And so after our first year with the Storm together, I went and I played in Russia, and I'll never forget the other point guard was the Lithuanian dude, and I was like, I want to kick his ass and practice every day, and but I was just trying to be cool, like it didn't and he was having none of it, like none of it. Like he didn't like. He wouldn't look at me, he wouldn't talk to me, he wouldn't shake hands with me. They would speak in
Russian about me. And then I learned to speak some Russians, so I knew he was talking on me or whatever. But it was the It was the one thing that I took from you, which is you can absolutely try and be a killer and earned minutes for somebody in practice or in games, and still just be a good dude afterwards, because we all just love ball and love to hang out. And it's something that I I try and share with other people that I learned about being a true professional. For sure, you hit the nail on
the head man. I've I've played so many places just like you. And you know that I've I've got teammates that you know, I still keep in contact with and you know, for great relationships with. You know, we played with some great talented guys, even at the same position. You know, your Randy Livingston, You're the Wan, we Rusty LaRue, guys like that. You know that we're all great players, And think about it, we all played that that same position.
And I'm still you know, in contact and and you know, just just goes to show even if we still stay in contact and I've been following what you're doing, you're doing great things. Then you know, I'd like to catch you up on a lot of the stuff that I've been doing as well. So all right, thank you for having Yeah, well we'll do that offline. I do will tell you this about Randy Rutherford. You know, you and I did battle. We battled off like thirteen dudes to
make the Oaklahoma to make the Idaho Stampede. Right, you've played there the year before and Aubrey Reese was hurt, so you and I kind of made the team. We did team pictures. I don't know if you remember this. We did team pictures of the Downtown Arena. And Brian Gates, who is now an assistant with the with the with the King's Right, he calls me. He's like, yo, dude, Yo, You and d Clinton you're are guys. You made it. Like,
why don't you and Angie get together? My girlfriend who was now his wife, driving up from Oklahoma like you we can share you hauls like straight bet right, So we go and we take the we take the team picture and I looked down at that little La vomitorium. We're dudes walk on and off the court, and I see this tall dude and I was like, that's Randy Livingston. I just got cut. And we go and play the College of Southern Idaho and where it was gonna be.
It was a scrimmage right before you're gonna play opener. And all of a sudden, I go from like battling you for minutes to not even taking off the sweats. And I was like, dude, why didn't they Why did they take me on this trip if they weren't even gonna play me? And yeah, so, but I love Randy to death. Uh he was. He was one of those guys that I know he made it to the league. But man, if he hadn't heard his knee at ABC D camp, what what what could have happened? We gotta run, Darren,
thanks so much for doing us. Love what you're doing in the d MB, and we'll talk to you real soon. Hey, thanks thanks for having that's hit for all ball. Remember not only download, subscribe, and rate, but make sure you tune into the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio, The I Heart Radio apples Serious XM on a daily basis. It's three to six Eastern time, twelve three Pacific in the meantime. Next week we'll do a recap of that
incredible showdown in the Annapolis. What we make for the elite programs in college basketball, seeing them bang heads on on on the hardwood floor for the first time. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ballot