All Ball - Pt. 2 NBA Trainer Mike Procopio on Kobe Work Ethic, Earning Respect, Unique Relationship

drive it right? Why would you? Why would you do that? I don't It doesn't make any sense to me. Additionally, if you did decide on Pala Bancarro, couldn't she have done a Danny ainge and traded down to three and gotten more picks. It just it feels like it feels like Orlando missed a great opportunity, even though they claim they got the guy that they wanted to get. So I'm not sure if I'm starting this podcast by you know, ripping on John Hammond, who does a tremendous, tremendous job.

He did a good job when he was in Boston. But I don't really understand how you go how you don't work a guy out and if he does become the guy and everybody knew Chet was going to you at least kicked the tires to is Houston going after Jabari. If they are, then you can make a trade and get more assets. It just doesn't make any sense to me. All Right, more on the draft to come. Let's let's catch up. This is Mike Procopio, who of course joined

us on our last pod. Part one was really interesting, getting into the business, chasing around Rick Pettino, turning down Rick Pettino. Here's part two of our talk. So anyway, so I work out Kobe. He does the whole look me up and down thing, but like I was just amazed at the simplicity of his work and pension in detail and all the ship's real. It's not fake like a lot of NBA players have this persona. It's not fucking fake and it's just like that. So anyway, so

I worked for Grover. I stay in Chicago. Grovers get like season tickets of the Bulls. I go to games. We have we have passes to go in that hallway like in the back where all the agents and stuff hang out after games. So I get to know Kevin McHale pretty well through age and being around Boston. When

you use in Minnesota. They have this nickname for me, sweet Chuck from police Academy and fucking um in the eighties, right because I used to get my ass kicked for being a wise ass back and tracking back in my days in Boston. So McHale would tell me like three times a year, when are you coming to my house and hanging out? And I never hung out with Kevin McHale, And I mean, I'm I have no idea. I love Micheal bad, no idea. So I'm like, finally, goes Mike.

He stopped me after the game. He said, you're coming to my fucking he doesn't square, but you're coming to my house in like a month. I want to set it up, gonna go for like a week. You're just gonna hang out, you know, come to practice, we'll talk, oop whatever. Whatever. I'm like, well, funk, let's do it. So I do it. And in the middle there, like a month before in the New York Times, they wrote about how Darryl Moray, which I worked for, worked with

in Boston. Um, like, has this scouting report that he gave to Shane Battier through analytics how to guard Kobe Bryant. So one team that quote unquote shuts down Kobe Bryant. Now they don't shut him down, but statistically it wasn't that efficient. So I get a call. I'm half I'm staying McHale going to his practices and stuff, going to his games, and Grover hits me up. He goes, well, Kobe's gonna call you today, And I'm like, the fund

is Kobe called me for today? He goes, well, did you read this article in in the New York Times. I'm like, yeah, I read it. Yeah, I definitely that it. He goes, well, he's you know, he wants to know because he doesn't like that ship when white people's get something on him. He's gonna ask you to like do some investigation. I'm like, god, I whatever. So he called he Actually I think he emailed me and he was like, Mike, look,

I don't like when anybody has anything on me. I want you to investigate all these scouts, all these coaches, and I want, you know, I want you to get how people guard me. What what's the what's people thinking when they prepare to play to play me? Because this Houston thing, you know, I don't like it. I'm like, all right, cool. So I talked to my friends who

are advanced scouts, head coaches. I talked to McHale, talked to assistant coaches, and they all gave me the same idea in that same answer, well, you just gotta force him into tough shots, blah blah blah. And I'm like, well, if I come back to Kobe with that fucking answer, I'll never hear from the dude again. I wasn't trying to work for him. I just want to try to service a client. Because uh Grover was working with Kobe

about you know, service in his knee. It was like two thousand and eight, and I was like, all right, I said, I'm not gonna do that. But what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna get on synergy. I'm gonna break down film of like seven games to seven games that he played against Houston. So I broke it down and I watched and literally, like batty Age just stayed

on his feet. Most disciplined defender I've ever seen. You know, It's like Kawai Leonardish like stayed at his feet, contested every shot, hand to the face, doesn't follow him, stays on his feet, funnels on the yell ming, which you know is it's just this big, hulking seven five guy, you know, So it's like he takes awful shots. They collapse the whole defense. He funnels him in the yeah instead of trying to pass the ball, tries to dunk

on yallae score on yell every time. And I'm like, this is fucked up, Like all right, not only is this a problem, and this is how they're playing him. He got Lamar, You've got You've got Trevor Reason, which isn't a great player, but there's a good catch and shoot player. He can't isolate, but you can get him in that right corner after everything collapses, straight line drive it you got pall gasol that he relocates on every drive.

You never passed to him. So not only that I give him the scouting report, but I also gave him like a three page what the what's he doing wrong? Why isn't he you know, why isn't he like, you know, giving the ball to these teammates in these types of situations. So I was a little not nervous about doing it because it's the only way I know how to do it is tell him the truth. So I do it. I tell Michale what I'm doing. He goes, Dude, that's the smartest thing to tell a guy like that to

do that. He sleeps, laugh and busted my balls. I'm like, yeah, fuck it, I said, it's not like Brian scalad Green. He's asking me for this advice is fucking Kobe Bryant. I might as well go for it. And so I give him all this and he goes, all right, great, and I tell him, like, look, you gotta like force y'all to get out of the pain. He goes in the paint. You got no fucking chance. But when he gets out of the pain, he's got send up blocks

for legs. He can't move. You gotta move in side to side, so you gotta get him out of there. And then you gotta move inside to side. Don't try to jump over him, but go around him. So anyway they play, he has this unbelievable game thirty plus and in the last thirty forty seconds minute, maybe pick a roll up top y'all. Switches out. He instead of jumping over and he goes around him, scores so fucking me and McHale fucking laughing about it, goes to hellle her

hair from again. I go, fuck no, I'm not gonna have for him again. It's a one and done. So anyway, I gave this whole scouting report. Deal. Well, he gets interviewed. About a minute later, I get a text on my phone. We got San Antonio tomorrow. I want the same thing, and literally, Doug, I would break down every opponent for him, the players that will regarding him, and the players would be guarding started, backup, backups, back up video strengths, weaknesses,

stat's scouting report, plan of attack. I would give it to him at seven am every morning, his time. He would go to shoot around, then start emailing me about twelve o'clock. From twelve to about seven off and on off and on his nap. But we would talk probably all the way up to about forty five minutes before

game time. And then what he would want is he wanted him after the game, and you would want um and you would want to break down of what he could have done better in the game to being more efficient and I go, why the funk are you doing this for? Well? Why why are you having your work? He goes, You're one of the only guys probably besides you know, Phil Jackson and Grover to tell me the truth. He goes, everybody else is afraid to tell me the truth. No one has ever spoken to me like that in

a long time. And I like it, and I'm like, fuck it, that's what I like to do. So that's what I would do for him every year. How do you decide what you're gonna be compensated for this? It's a good question because that's that's a lot of them. That's a lot of work, right, no doubt, no doubt. You know that's a lot of work for one client. Well, well I didn't get paid. He offered He offered me three times. He offered me three times, and I'm fucked up, Doug,

no doubt about it. A couple of things here, Hey, I wanted to learn from the best, and I was getting paid by Grover, so I'll getting my bills paid. I'm good. My wife's a veterinarian doctor. She's like, we're doing okay. I'm not married yet, but we're fine. So like I wanted to learn from the absolute fucking best. And I thought once I started getting paid, which is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life,

But that was my reasoning back then. If I thought I was getting paid, then I'm expendable because now if something goes left or right, I wanted him to know that I was there for him, not for anything. I told him this my first email back and forth when he decided he want to do this, and we're not going to be friends. I'm not gonna be hanging out with you. I'm not gonna be asking for your favorite movie is. I'm not taking pictures of you. I'm not

fucking asking you for shoes, tickets, anything like that. I'm gonna stay in Chicago and do this. I want. I want to be able to go back and forth with you and argue with you, and if I feel as though if we get close, I won't be able to do that. And that's just so to how it was. And he asked me like three times. He asked me.

Then he asked me like at the end of the Phoenix series when they went to the finals of Boston and ten and he asked me one more time and I think that's why, fucking you know, we got along so well. Hey, I wasn't cost him any money, but he knew that all I wanted to do was fucking

learned from him. I wanted to be able to work with the best, and I wanted to know how he prepares for stuff, because not how to teach people how to play like Kobe Bryant, but teach people how to prepare like Kobe, and what he did in certain situations. And I don't think there was a guy that spent more time talking to him than me, and like we he would find me out a couple of times to

work him out. I think I remember doing it in two thousand and eleven, and then when he came to Chicago when he had extended period of time, if he came to Chicago and state for a few days. But um, we had an unbelievable back and forth about questions about the game, talking about old players, you know, breaking down filmable players, and just sort of the way his brain works. I think that that's worth more than any type of compensation I could have ever gotten, because you know, and

again I probably should have got paid. He gave me a championship ring after two thousand and ten. That's pretty freaking cool to be honest with you, Doug. If I if I got paid eighty grand a year, ninety grand a year, whatever, like, it's given me so much more opportunity. Like if I wasn't working for Kobe, you know, it doesn't matter how good I am. Development players like Mark

Keaton would have never hired me. The only reason why you hired me is because Adrian will Geranowski and a few other people did huge stories on me after the oh nine Intent Championship about my work with Code because a no one's ever done that with a player at that stature and like that type of service. And it was a great story to be honest with you, a guy who scored four career high school points, who's a fucking grotesque mutant, it's fucking has the air of one

of the most intense winners in our fucking generation. And yeah, it was pretty fucking cool be honest with you. And I'm not that fucking bright. I graduated with a two point oh one. It shows right now about how fucking dumb I was. I probably should asked, but I just saw where the training business was going. I saw these guys hanging out with these players. I saw see them, like taking pictures of them the clubs. Like the whole internet social media thing really didn't take off yet, but

you started to see it. And I'm like, I don't like that look right there. Because Grover taught me. We serviced the client. He goes, We're like the Navy sales. No one sees us, no one hears this, No one fucking talks to us. We do our job and we move the funk on. It's like the unit like that that showed the unit. It's like that. You're like Jack Bauer and that's what that's what Kobe called me. It's Jack Bauer. And like he goes, motherfucker, he goes, you

get intel that I've never seen before. And I'm like, well, yeah, all right, that's what you paid me to do and not paid me to do, but that's what I do. And uh, that's what he calls me Jack Bauer. And I actually had Jack Bower in my phone for him um when he would call me. And what happened is he fucking haunted my dreams for years because, like I would, he would text me like four in the morning and I had the night Rider. You know the swoosh from Night Rider, that's his ring tone. And my wife would

just roll her fucking her eyes. God for big give things to saying that. But like she goes, what's he want now? It's four in the morning, what's he want? And he would want to know about pick a roll coverage of like Phoenix or you know how how did Tracy McGrady like use his fade away against Detroit in this year? And I would have to hunt it down for him. It was unbelievable. M Um, you go to Dallas in what year? Two thousand and thirteen? Okay, what

what was? What was that organization? Like the support staff is some of the best I've ever seen. Um kay, Well, Casey Smith easily is the best trainer I've ever been around. I mean he he's got presents with the players. He knows that he's doing. He's very well thought out, he's very you know, he's very focused on the job at hand. Um. Jereedy Holstsouple if their strength coach is one of the best strang coaches I've ever been around. He builds bodies, he doesn't give a funk, He just does his job.

He's focused at that he'll go back at the player if he needs to. I really like working with him. Don Coxtein sports psychologist. Now most sports psychologists again like shooting coaches I've been around or completely full of ship. Don Coxtein by far like he had more as far

as he off the court development players. He had more influence on my career than almost anyone else I've ever been around, because we we what happened was, you know, you know, after they won the championship in Aleven, they sort of get bit of guys and you know whatever, they're sort of like they're sort of wandering around the as it right with their roster and how they're doing, and they're young players were sort of dying on the vine, you know, Like I think the guys that developed before me,

Brandon Wright did okay. You know, he he was sort of they sort of got him away from Golden State and he did okay for them. Um and we see J. J. Barea because they gave a lot of minutes he developed. Who's the big guy that uh Yana MEHEMI actually developed him a little bit. He was okay, But like for like a two or three year period, their their young guys are dying on the vine, and so what they wanted me to do is come in and help the development of those guys to to turn their young players

in the assets. So, you know, I was really good on the court. I was really good talking to players. I loved it because it was a time of the NBA where it wasn't five thousand coaches that don't do anything. We had a really small staff. Most of them wanted to do game prep and they didn't want to work with the young players. Not and not nothing against them, it just wasn't what they like to do. So I loved it because now any young player I could just get to work with. Nobody was sort of standing over

my shoulder. And we had guys like Jay Crowder, we had Bernard James, we had we had some young guys that were you know that they had a chance to

be pretty good. So yeah, I started working. But Don coxtein what we would talk about, and he had a baseball background as well, and how to shape a development program to turn these guys into professionals where because we're developing these guys for us as somebody else, and our job is to turn these guys into from you know, we had about eighteen months to do it by for each player by turn them into a serviceable player that we could either sign long term or trade for value.

And we had we implemented things that no other team does. We had a rule where, you know, young guys, because young guys, from what I was told before I got there, we're coming to practice eight, ten, twelve minutes before practice, lacing his shoes up and going. I said, that can't fucking work. So we had a rule that they had am in ninety minutes before practice, but we would find them the largest amount of money we could, which is bucks.

And why we did that is we wanted them to come into the gym, get their breakfast and stuff, get to the locker, but like like see the trainer to get you know, to help with the injury stuff, go to the strength coach, get a workout in, get shots up at the development coach, watch film with coaches, and then also you know a grumpy coaches are like now the head coach like Carlisle would come in ride the bike, but I wanted them to see him in the gym or at the locker an hour and a half before

practice or an hour gouil practice. Like why the fund is this guy here so worldly, this is great, Like actually, like this guy must care a little bit. So that's sort of what we wanted to do to start this professionalism by each player to develop being a pro, because if they get traded with us after year two or three to a team that has nothing invested in them, we want them to just carry that torch right away.

Where they're coming early every day, they're knowing people's names, they work with, coaches are coachabo, they watching film and all that. So we started doing that, and we started turning out some really good fucking players. You know, Jay Crowder, you know, we trade for Rondo, which ends up bringing us Dwight Powell, who developed into a really good fucking

role player, borderline starter, decent starter for Dallas. You know, um, you know we developed him Dorian Finney Smith, you know, brought Dorian and and you know, Dorian was a funny story. One of my best friends is an eighty year old agent named Frank Katapano, Boston guy from New York. Originally he had Dorian and his stable of players, and you know, like I remember Draft night, we had a second round pick in the forties, and I really liked him, right

off the bat. I thought he could have been Michael Cooper. He just needed to develop a shot. He had the size, he had the length, He was very coachable, very sort of tunnel vision and stuff, and like I was the only guy who raised his hand in the in the draft room, I remember wanting the draft. In the second round, he got red flat for something, some small thing. We ended up taking a J. Hammon, a J. Hammond's and

I'm like, what the fuck? But thankfully, like right after the draft, now, Frank told me that Miami and New Orleans had like summer league deals for Dorian already in place. So I get on the phone with him and I said, Frank, I think he could be really good here. I'll be here with him every day while watch over him. So I knew if he went to Miami he'd be a fucking star. I knew it's not a star, but he'd be really good. Yeah. I knew if he goes to New Orleans he'd probably get lost in a shuffle. They

weren't very good in development plays. So I'm like, we need him. He goes all right, Well, he's got like a hundred thousand dollar guarantee or seventy five from Miami. I said, if he could match that or more, we'll we'll do it. I'll have to be more. So Cuban stepped up, paid him, and then we took him in. You know, that fucking guy worked hard every day, ends

up getting a shot. We hired her shooting coach Peter Patton from Minnesota, who ended up working with him at a shot really helped him and really brought him along. And we just sort of had this stable of good role players him, Dwight, Maxie Clearberg, j Crowder, you know, Jalen Brunson was turn key. He you know, he would have been you know, Jalen was already set from day one, but Peter Patton really helped him and he just needed minutes to develop. He didn't need anything else, and that's

what he got. And then obviously draft Luca and like like I said in my video, I put out today, a fucking basketball could work out Luca and he'd end up being a superstar. I didn't know that at the time. I thought maybe he'd be like a Druggage three point Oh. Like, the one thing about Luca I saw from day one was he's one of the top five passes I've ever seen in a week's time, like just playing with our guys in October and September. I mean, you could tell

that his vision was fucking next level. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app search f s

are to listen live. What's what's Cuban like in terms of, you know, his level of involvement, because you know some of these dudes they get involved and you're like, yeah, I mean the owner of the the expression I know NFL is owner's own that you do all the work you want, but if the guy who writes the checks doesn't want him, with the guy who was checks does want him, that's the way it goes, right owners. Owners,

Some guys, are you guys? Do you know? You do you? Um, I'll just you know, just just win and like that's that's what the Clippers supposedly, whatever it takes to win, you guys do it. I'll write the check. What is Cuban like? Cuban is sort of something in the middle, Like I thought, I've heard wars like you always hear war stories about everybody like you hear that he's like cussing guys out of the plane. Blah blah blah. He wasn't really like that. He was intense, he was into

the team. He was there a lot um, but he'd be like he he didn't want to know exactly what you're doing, Like he would question you, wanted if he thought that he had a better thing, he would know. He wouldn't do it often, but he would be there a lot. He would talk to you like, pro what do you know, Like what what's going on? Like what are you working on? Who are you working on with? Like that. He'd want to know things like that, and

he would ask me. He was like, look, you know, I heard about this thing on shooting or this like this this sort of you know, gadget or whatever, and then he would ask my opinion. And he would never really force feed things on you. The only thing he didn't want you to do is like mid rain shots, Like he fucking hated it. I'll tell you two things that you know, really I thought was pretty pretty, you know,

pretty interesting. Hated mid rain shots. And he wanted our guys in the off season, in the in the fall to shoot two ft behind the line and that was unheard of at the time, and I'm like, Mark, why he goes, well a couple of things. Hey, it's more spacing, and be like it's more expatient to operate. You know. He also, don't shoot. You know, you're not a line hugger, you know shoot. Yeah, honestly, actually that was one of my dad's philosophies, Yeah, for a long time, which is like,

don't ever shoot at the line. He should make you should make ten you know for high school kids make ten threes and every workout from from pro range, etcetera, etcetera. Um, okay, Rondo that thing went bad at the end. Yeah, he basically quit on him in the playoffs. Well, here's the thing, Ron does. I've known rondoson he was sixteen years old. Um. Steve Smith Roe Killcata is one of my best friends in coaching. I when I was I first year a Nike camp, we were were roommates and I've been close

ever since. So when we get them, I love the trade. I would do the trade ten times out of the tent for a talent steppoint. You gave up Jay Crowder, you know, Jamir Nelson on his you know, the last couple of years of his career. Brandon right, you know, I pick that it didn't really turn into anything two for a guy at the time that was there a

top ten point guard in the league. The problem there was he was a absolute thinker and Carlisle absolute thinker and very alpha doggish in their own ways both sides, and that wasn't gonna work. And from that standpoint, you don't make the trade, but you gotta try to make the thing work. And I think both those guys try to make it work, but it just you set him up for disaster both sides. Like you know, Rick should

never coach Rondo. Rondo should never played for Rick, And what happened I think the biggest thing and it costs Rondo millions of dollars. Where like we got him in the win playoffs games and the first game we we had no chance of beating Houston. They had Dwight, they had Hardened, they had all these fucking guys, and we didn't have it. We really didn't have the firepower or

the shooting like that. It's a league of shooting, yet we have you know, Rondo, Chamber, Parkson's, Monte Ellis and Tyson Chandler in the same fucking lineup, Like, that's tough to compete with shooting wise, against a team that just sucking shoots threes and lobs to the rim. So Rondo gets fifteen five and one. And you know we were, you know, fifteen five and one in game one, you know, attacked the basket, made a couple of threes, made it free throws. Not feeling good about our chance to win.

But Jian did really well. Well. His plus minus is like minus twenty one. I'm not a plus minus guy. I think that that's very subjective like and in a lot of ways. And he has fifteen five and one, and then he literally sits most of the first half and he just shuts down because those guys got into it a few times. Everybody saw the blow up against Toronto and things like that. So he just had enough. And I turned on and I say raised like while he's doing this, sitting down and you know, not wanting

to get back in, I go region. I know, like, look, it's fucked up. You know you didn't play. You know you're here to play and you're not playing. But dude, this is gonna cost you. This is a national fucking TV. Just get in the game, do whatever. But like that, the way his brain works is like when he shuts you down. I know that shuts it down, and it's not right. It's definitely not right. But fifteen five and one,

you're pretty excited about going forward with that. And he was naking threes, like you know, the last half of the year, last thirty games or so he played with Dallas. He you know, he came in at like forty three from the line like putrid from the three last twenty or thirty games or so, he shot like seventy four from the line, and he shot like fifty two from the three on a really small sample side. But he was actually doing a little bit better shooting, making some

free throws and clutch like he was doing better. But I think sitting that first half it just had an overload in his brain. And again he was he was definitely in the wrong. He's a competitor, never does that regardless if he likes to coach, doesn't like the coach, And it just really ruined the rest of his career as far is getting long term deals. Every other deal from that moment on was one year deal, one year deal, one year deal, when you deal. Well, he was at

the Lakers. They said he would win shooting drills, like all the shooting drills. So what happened? Yeah, so what happened? He comes in, he works with Dirk's coach early on, and like Dirk's coach, I think, you know Hoger, I think if you work with them while you're younger in your career and you're it's like holistic medicine. If you work with them long enough, it's going to really resonate. I think for a player older in their career and you're trying to get the mid season to try to

make a change, that's not the right avenue. So they tried that for like a few weeks to a month, and it wasn't working. What I wanted to do with them is raises are not change a shot, because again from Hopley, you learn, you know, you can make tweaks your shot. It's like getting operation on your knee. You could get like sort of like you know, cleaning up cartilage, or you could do micro fracture surgery. When you're trying

to change you shot, it's microfracture surgery. When you're trying to raise someone arc it's like getting you know, getting cartilage, you know, flushed out or whatever, whatever the funk you do. Like with small procedure. Yeah, it will suck you up for like three weeks. But once you start getting it, you don't change your shots. So your your consistency, your your your comfort level, and your confidence is still there. It's just a couple of weeks. Gonna just take take

time to get it up. So that's what we did. We finally said, hey, ragion, just get it high elbowdi your eyebrow hold you follow through and his arc got a lot higher. And then he started getting softer shots and he softened the shot up a little bit, and I thought that that makes a big impact. You. Now, it's not the cure. It's sort of like your shots like an engine. Doug right in your car and you're sucking your corrupt mechanic comes up to you and goes, well,

I could change your engine for fifteen thousand. No, or it's like what was that movie A Robert rob with with with Williams? Um the fuck uh? He was a football all player. Fucking he missed the fucking ball in the state championship. Robin Williams is in it. Oh Um, oh, I know this one when they go back and they replay the Yeah when we with with with Russell with

Kurt Russell, Yes, so half Taft high School. Yeah, so I remember the part from the movie and I take that in my tea because I'm a big movie guy. As you know, I've already dropped like eight of them. But like he said, look, I can replace their engine, or you can put this fucking you know, or you can put this fucking like liquid into your fucking engine and for a dollar fifty and it will make it sound like it fucking runs the best best of cops. So like that's what the shot is, Doug, Like, your

SHOT's your engine. You can either replace your engine and it's gonna take four to eighteen months to get you back on track. Or you can make these small adjustments around your shot. Your footwork better, your your follow through is better, your your releases high and your ark is higher, your softer, all these things where like it will make some time to to sort of get you back on track, but you don't have to gut your whole shot. That's what I thought Rondo should have done, and we did that,

and we spent a lot of time. He would shoot after every home game, Like every home game, we would have to, you know, go to a little shooting routine and he would have to make five in a row at eight baskets and if he missed two in a row, he'd go back a basket and it really helped him. And he had to switch all five in a row and he really it helped him a little bit. So it was just wasn't a good fit. It wasn't a good fit. Uh, I mean, how is Jalen bruns to

become this good? Like? Look? Everybody likes Jalen Brunson. He was a great college player, but it doesn't make any sense to the guy who's kind of steps slow and not big. Yeah, and it's not like he's gunned up. He's always kind of basketball country strong a little bit. But like he's gonna make a lot of money this summer without a question him make So how how does that work? Well? First of all, Like, and that's the thing why in development, Doug, it's like you're getting on

a like a three lane highway. You're getting on the first thing you gotta do is an NBA player is develop your routine every day. Your routine is what's gonna take you through your struggle and your success. You gotta do the same ship every day, like being there early, getting your shots up, watching film, being coachable, taking care of your body, diet, all that stuff, Jalen, And it usually takes about twelve to eighteen months for those players

to really get the routine done. Jalen Brunson had fucking zero zero problem with the routine from the day one, being early, staying late, yes, sir, no, sir, doing exactly what he so like right off the bat. He's got an edge of his play. Second of all, he's got a fucking brain in his head. He knows how to change speeds, he knows how to read defenses. He's asking questions on this bench the first year when he's not playing, he's first in the huddle like like watching the play

drawing up. And you could ask Jalen, that's what that's a little trick that we did with our players, even when they especially the ones that didn't play. After Carlisle would draw something up, it's like, all right, what are

we running and who's the two and why? And he would just answered, answered, answered, like he already had that culture deal already fucking set, and then the work ethic, and then working with Peter Patton, the shooting coach, and then like all he did was used his fucking brain.

The game is so chaotic these days of players that take awful fucking shots can't make plays for other people, and just like just chaotic basketball through trainers, through and not all trainers, but most and through all this one on one, me, me me basketball. He didn't play like that. So he just said, Okay, I'm playing with Luka Dontage, which is one of the best passers that ever played

the game of basketball. All I have to do is a make open shots when they double off me to get to him straight line drive it, make a play for someone else because Jale doesn't have great vision, Like he'll give you assist, but he's not like a vision guy. He could make the play that's in front of him, no doubt about it, but like he just makes easy plays.

He doesn't complicate the fucking game, Doug, and he gets an opportunity playing because the one thing they don't have and maybe dim wit he's a little bit of that, but they don't have another guy that could really really have the ball in their hands and do along with it. Yeah, Doring, Pittie Smith catching shoot, Dwight Powell, lob got, you know, Bullock catching shoot guy. You know, like that's what they got. And Jalen could handle him, pick and roll, he could finish, floater, post,

you up, step throughs, like the step through stuff. We were like, I didn't do anything with Jalen, but like I would work him out before games and we would spend a lot of time on the step through stuff. He already had it, like Villanova is huge on playing off the two feet thing. But like I thought he was gonna be like a Derek Fisher on steroids. That's why I thought Jalen was gonna be like a guy who could start be really good, tough, but he just

took it to another level. And and now with the amount of money, with not a lot of free agents out there, I think he'll probably get at least twenty

I would think upwards of in free agency. He did it, Doug, because you know, Rick is dad Rick which played two times over from the at Salem High School and played in the Boston Shootout and was a fucking legend in high school and you know, in uh, in basketball in Massachusetts, but like he set him in that like obviously that role player mentality of you gotta put your work in, you've gotta be coachable, you've gotta play a certain way, you've gotta be tough. And that's what he did. And

the fucking kid he didn't fight it. He hit a home run with it. And now the guy's gonna get paid. And you know, I think, I think the Mavericks because if the Mavericks do lose him salary wise, they can't really make a lot of moves. So they need to sign this guy. So I think I think, like if the Troit ends up offering a lot of money in New York or what have you, I think that they'll they'll pony up up to it. I'll probably up to a certain number, of course, but I would say from

twenty million, that's where that's where I see him. Um, now you're doing kind of what you did for Kobe, even for college kids now right like Max Christie, freshman at Michigan State now going to league. So now you've turned this into a business. Correct. Trying to trying to the problem with my mentality with this thing, Doug is players hate this ship because they don't want somebody actually telling me telling you what to do like not like

what they're not doing well. So my video breakdowns are simple. You give me your film, I chop it up where I only take the place you're involved with on the ball,

off the ball. I then like record my screen, go through the clip, stop it, rewind it slow mo, and add audio coaching to it, telling you the stuff that you do well and why you do it well, and what you're not doing well and why you're not doing it well, and on the ball and off the ball, and a specifically for shot selection efficiency off the ball, play defense, not following as much, trying to show hands, not leaving feed on perimeter shooters, like trying to turn

them more efficient than basketball players. Max Christie, you know, ended up being one of the best defenders in the Big Ten, a lot of which because we worked on it about you know, closing out short, not running guys off the line, holding you know, not not leaving his feet following West and he end up being the guy that would guard the best player every night, and being

he was already always an efficient player anyway. And then without like a rig Berwali, one of the best players in the w n b A again working with her on her defense or off the ball, play making place for others, you know, getting you know, getting rid of the ball, you get double teamed and respacing sort of like what Steph does, and just trying to be that person that tells me the truth every day and like

I gotta I got some good clients and things. It's just where such in a trainer mentality of everybody telling you how good you are, and like you've got to be the main player, main player, main player, and everything's with the ball. Not a lot of players like to be told they're not doing everything perfectly. So my clientele is a little bit different. You know, how can how can somebody get ahold of you? How can somebody become become when your colletch email me might get who consultant

stock Com? They could follow me on Twitter? Who consultants Instagram? Not a huge social media guy, but I'm on there a little bit. I'm usually making fun of Kyle collins Worth because of the diet from by U. Oh my god, yeah, oh my god. He's he's fucking insane. He's one of my favorite players that I've ever worked with, but he's completely fucking insane with that ship. I you know, I

thought I enjoyed. I enjoyed being with him because you know, he again, I love role I I could work with any type of player, but the role player to me is somewhere I could really help because a nobody wants to work with them. Like I remember being with the Mavericks. He had guys like fifteen and our roster shooting around. We have assistant coaches walking through their court and I'm sitting there and I'm like, is anyone gonna work with

this fucking guy? And I love spending time with those guys because if they're good, if they've got a little talent, you could really make a big change. And I love I love Coyle, but he's fucking completely insane with that fucking workout ship. Man. I love him, I love him, I love well. That's I think that that's the connective tissue, Right, We're all lunatics on some level, but you love the sport. Yeah,

and that's kind of what the connective tissue to it. Well, he got hurt, like when he was at b y U. He tours me up early and somebody got in his ear about holistic medicine, about eating right diet and how it could heal you better and it worked for him and then he just like he was all about that and that's what he was all about, and uh, yeah it was. It's it's interesting, man, it's look, this game is unbelievable. Man, it connects you with so many players.

And yeah, I missed the old days of like again, the everything is so inclusive now like I loved back in the day where you have a lot of AU

clubs play in like April, May, June. Then you have to qualify for things, so like July was shut off from most teams because they go to Vegas or AU Nationals and you know, and also a you get such a fucking bad name because actual AU basketball has like rules, regulations, dress code, birth certificate, background checks and all this other stuff that you see on like social media is like independent. But anyways, like you have July where you gotta qualify.

You can't just write a check for playing a tournament. You had to qualify. So everybody else went to Five Star East Invitational, they went to they went to the pump camps, they went to bc BC camps all over the South. They had to go to camp and get better and play and then you get back to a stuff from the fall. But since now everything is so inclusive that you could just go to any tournament you want. Basically you just gotta write a check. It's it's crazy.

There's there's everybody has a national championship, right like, wait, that's a national championship. That's that's a way which is the national championship? And um and then the hold backs double holdbacks. Oh god, Like I was a hold I just you just were I was a hold back, but I had to hold back right Like I finished eighth grade. I was five ft tall, and you know I had a new Pubert Yet, so would you do did you repeat eight? Yes? Okay, and my son is gonna do

the same, repeat seventh or eighth. Here, I don't mind that. I don't find that. But you have kids that are already advanced, Like what are we? What are we doing this? Hey? PGM? Like like I'm like again, you had Max good On, which is one of my best friends, Like you know that crazy motherfucker, but like he like I remember being exposed to post graduate basketball like and again, I I read about it in like I think I've read about it in raw recruits or whatever. But like I remember

something like an ad in the newspaper. Hey, Winchington School is playing m C I tonight at at Phillips Exeter. So I would drive up our hour from my house and I would watch it and I would be like, what the fuck? Like New England prep school basketball they had, you know, they mostly had PG postgraduate or seniors. I don't mind it if if like you don't get a score, or you don't get the recruitment that you want, or you need to mature and then you do the post

graduate year. It's the holding back, you know, because I believe in playing up. I don't. I don't believe in being older and playing down like that. That's just easy work. And yeah that that to me is and you know, not really not really all for that. The Celtics are they close. Yeah, they're very close. Look, you've got two of the young stars in the league and you get them basically signed up. Now, the problem with this is sometimes it could be a flash in the pan situation.

You've got the talent there, you got Smart signed up, You've got Robert Williams. If you could stay healthy for a whole year and add a little bit to his offensive game is going to be a huge help for them. The problem lies with this, Al Horford, can you play at thirty seven like you played there? That's the problem and that's where it diminishes a little bit. Right, here's the here's the two things the I agree like everybody believes, okay that you get a year older, you get a

year wie or you notice your mistakes. Tatum develops, round develops left hand right, like all of these things they get better. What they failed to realize is like Al Horford gets a year older, he's not going to get a year better, right, So the two things would be got to figure out Horford. Yeah, and then I think that backup point guard is the most glaring portion of what they need to add. And it's not just because they need somebody to get those two off the ball,

but that's the way to get Robert Williams more offense. Right, Like he's healthy, you can shut him down and get his knee right. That's a that's a roll guy, that's a rim roll gut. We just throw up to the ring and protective. You know, maybe what's the why am I? Maybe Peyton Pritchard, I just I don't know, Like, I just don't like Peyton's more of a shooter score than a guy who comes off the ball screen and throws it to the rim and can make all of those.

He's not that he's the right so and but now you can get away with his defense because if you're playing with Robert Williams, right, it's that you can put a lineup and around. I think that's and and I also and I actually love Brad and think Brad is brilliant and this is a great role for it. You know that Danny built it, he's tweaked it because he coached him. He knows it. And then he had to email and emails the dude who can stare those guys down and tell, you know, telling the past the fucking

ball and play defense. Right. So I think the whole thing works. But Brad has never really valued that type of point guard. Go and look at at at his teams at Butler didn't have it. His teams with Boston haven't really hadn't either, So that I think a bit of that that would be my thing in terms of tweaks is in order to get more out of Robert Williams. I agree with you at the offensive event, right, and how he nobody plays in the post anymore, and he's

definitely not gonna learn to play the post at this stage. No, but he can be a great role guy. But one, you gotta tweak what you're doing offensively, which is pretty simplistic. But more importantly, you gotta get somebody who does that and knows that it can and can. Is that is that fair? Yeah? For sure. You need a Rondo, tight off the bench type of player, and that's what they're missing. They need that guy that could create of pick and roll and do that. And that's a problem. And you

know that. Yeah, those two things bench, you know, bench as well as that point guard off the bench. Correct. Yeah, But then but then the problem is if that guy then again, I think you can play him with Smart because Smart so strong defensively, you know, But can you play that guy with Jalen Brown and Jason tam I think you blame with Brown. I just don't know if you can play with Tatum Like Tatum without the ball

in his hands, he just seems lost. Yeah, Tatum needs to And again, you know, Drew Handlin is probably the best guy at it, you know, because he's probably the least circus of you know, he doesn't do that circus ship, and like I think that they have to spend a summer of, in my opinion, off the ball stuff like you know, cutting and you know, like giving it up

early in re space. So the big play against the against the Nets was him cutting, right instead of that Marcus Mark shot bakes Game one, takes a drible and he cuts and makes an incredible finish. Like I don't think he cut the rest of the playoffs. I think you need to be able to do that. Like if you watch Steph and watch the passing and cutting, and you know, the cutting is huge and just how like Lebron when he was on Miami, like huge cutter you know again, like like it's just the cutting and off

the ball game. Yeah, they gotta have to figure that out. But like like Miami's got glaring at issues, right, you know, you can't score, can't score. Milwaukee probably would have won that series if Middleton played, But they've got glaring issues too. Like every team's got an issue, thankfully for Boss and you know they you know, I don't I think Philly's tapped. In my opinion, I think they they're just sort of

like they've hit it. And I don't think there's there's a story today that Kyrie is at an impass with nets of course Shaka, right, And that's the thing, Like everybody wants to complain about Kyrie, and I'm one of them, but like talent wins in this league, and somebody will put up with them again. And but the thing is, like, what are you gonna do. You're gonna play for the minimum to go to Philly if there you're an impast. Here's the thing, you're an impast. But like, what are

you giving up for Kyrie Irving? Are you gonna give up assets for Kyrie Irving? Maybe Miami might. Miami might give up hero for him because they said they're always about talent. But like, now you've got to figure out is this guy gonna want to stay with you? And so you're not gonna give them really anything worth a lot you like. I love Durant. I think Duran, I think Luke in my opinion, LUKEA is the best player in the league, and you know, always talked to debate.

Off course, I think Durant's number two. I think Durant because he could score so effortlessly and yeah, like he's also I think Durant is this era's Kareem appool jabbar okay, and here's here's what, here's there's give it to me. His his jump shot is an unstoppable weapon, right, just like Kareem skyhook was an unstoppable weapon. He's also kind of socially aloof, right, like like Kareem socially aloof um. And I mean I think it's it's interesting again, like

you can think the world of staff. They were on the same team. Yeah, for three years, there was no question who the better player was. Like, it's not really nearly as close. Now. I don't necessarily mean I want to always play with Katie. A suppose like Staf feels like a dude, you'd much better to be around for

three years. But um, so I think it's like Kareem, we'd have these they have these debates over like greatest players of all time, like the guy scored more points than anybody at six titles and six m vps and like not even brought up. Now. I granted it was a different game or whatever and all that stuff, but the point is that I feel like Kevin Durant is going to always be that guy who has every like on the Olympic, we don't win the Olympics last summer,

not forgiving rent no chance none. Do you get Do you get into that a lot besides like interaction on social media? But like, do you I I hate those discussions on top ten. I had a guy, Joe Boylan, who worked for the Minnesota Timberwolves. He worked for me at Grovers and you would always bring around his top fifty with I would tell, hey, Joe, shove that fucking top fifty list up, because because it's like, if you think Will champ One's the best of all time, awesome,

all right? Whoever it is, like that's what you think? Why we arguing? Like okay, cool? Like if I said, how do you how do you how do you argue achemalize you on versus Steph Curry? Like how do you argue? Like what what is the what is the point of that? Right? What is the point of that? You know? Like they're all juggernauts like I I do the podcast with with Andrew Bogan, the rope Bogs podcast. Oh, he's the fucking best, and like like he he wants step from the Top ten.

I'm like, God, bless here go ahead. Here's the thing though, when you put step in and that's hard and so like I got it right here. I wrote it down last night. So like again, in any order, I don't give a funk with the order is I just throw him down like Russell M J Lebron Magic, Kareem, Shack Bird Chamberlain. You know Hakim isn't there. So we didn't

mention it. We didn't mention Tim Duncan exactly. Hey, d Duncan, Kobe, we don't like Kobe right though, like those and like and like you're somebody who loved respective work with Kobe, you know, just like automatic put him in the top ten. Like wait what hold on? Yeah, I don't think you mentioned Shack right and Shocked a hard one because he would never be in He would never be in the first two or three months of the season, right, but

he was such a completely unstoppable physical specimen. Hey, what about your first time seeing Shock and Lse so app here's my first time. So uh, you don't know this. Dale Brown and my dad very very close. Okay, here's how close? Okay? One year I come home from I don't remember what camp it was, might have been Superstar Camp. Least be Superstar Camp. I loved that, Doug, You've gone to all that ship. I love that. Like did that?

My my my brother went to b C. I. My dad would ship my brother off to the East Coast. I never did the East Coast camps. I did Superstar and I did Pumps, and then I did it and I did ABC BE two years. So I come home. I think it was after Superstar. So my teammates and Superstar Camp were Willie McGuinness and Jared hass after and then there was another dude, I'll think of it. He played at San Francisco and he was literally the best

athlete I've ever played with. He was a dunking machine, a black dude like six one anyway, So I come home and set it on my couch. Are a white dude who's like six nine, looks foreign and at a black dude who's like not saying anything. So I come in and I was like, hey, man, what's up? Like, Hello, my name is Roman Rutchenko. I am here to play for your dad. This is running. He is from Mississippi.

I cannot understand what she said. It was Ronnie Henderson Anderson Ronnie Henderson from Mura High School and Roman Ruschenko. And then we had a guy on my team while I'm actually coaching his son now named Brandon Titus rand It was from Guar High School, threet Us and they all went to l s U together and uh to thank my dad for delivery all these dudes. I'll never forget this. The Maui Invitational. L s US playing right and I get a I get a call from a

friend of mine. He's like, hey, uh is your dad? Why is your dad? And Baton Rouge and like, my dad isn bed Rooge's in a y like He's like, well, I'm watching LSU play and your dad's sitting like right behind the bench. I go, he must have gone after he went to the Mallie Invitational, like uh, coach Brown

flom out. So they were really close. So um after shocks freshman year, maybe a sophomore before he left, he had he was at the Wooden Awards and I remember the first time he played Arizona and I say it, that's the first time I saw him. Don't get on dudes and do it habit Pats, You're like, yeah, I've never seen some ship. It was like a cartoon character. You could. It was, Yeah, it was you're in the movie. Here's the movie. You're a movie guy. Weird science of course,

right right when you put together all the pieces. Yeah, that's what Shaq was, except for he could couldn't really shoot right, but it's like like footwork, amazing, heed, lateral athleticism, right, personality, smile, look like every everything. So we go to the Wood Awards and again I think he was a guest. I think Coach Brown invitrus and I go to meet him and he shakes my hand and I got at the time, I was pretty young, but I got pretty big hands.

This fucking dude's hand touched in the middle of my forearm. I was like, I remember walking away, going dad, I've never seen a human being that big in my life. I think I read about him, and my seventh and eighth grade math and math and history teacher gave me the hoop scoop when they like it used to be like a TV guy. He used to be like that big. And it had Shaquille and it it had I think it had Ed O'Bannon on the cover, and it had like Montrose and Glenn Robinson was in an unbelievab high

school player. By the way, over get towards a c L is first year at U c l A. Yeah, and that U c l A team was good. They got smoked by Indiana in Albuquerque, but they should have had Ed Obandon to which it reminded me of remember the movie, Uh it was off the book Heaven as a Playground. Bo Kimball was in that. He was an unbelieved player before I ripped his knee up. That is what I expected. Ed O'Bannon, Like Ed O'Bannon. That's all

you heard about was Obannon. But I remember reading about Shock and then I didn't I sort of obviously no internet back then. Whatever. I turned on ESPN and he's playing fucking Arizona and it's a fucking joke, like it was a fun They just dunking and dunking and dunking, you know. And now now we're watching the Big Three and CHRISTI Action Under was still playing. It's unbelievable, all right, Well,

stay tuned for part three. Reminded the Doug Otlip shows daily three to six eastern twelve three Pacific on your I Heart Radio appor or Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports Radio Dot com and of course you can download it wherever you download this podcast. I will point out I really like with the San Antonio Spurst did look. I like what Oklahoma City did. Oklahoma City got to to. Jay Len Williams is who I think are really good blended players. Jayleen Williams from Santa Clara I've seen several

times in person. I don't think he's a guy you go to and hey, go get me a bucket. But you know you have Josh Giddy, who's who creates shots for people. You have s g A. You know now you have chat. You just need guys you can I mean three and d is Jalen Williams. He's tremendous. And jay Len Williams from Arkansas is gonna be I think

one of those guys who's like a on the Celtics. Gosh, why am I blanking on the Celtics from the University of Tennessee that their build is obviously very, very different in terms of body type. But Grant Williams is you know, he'll come in, he'll take charges, he won't be intimidated. He can score just enough. You know you're never gonna run ISOs for him or run him off a series of staggers, but that doesn't mean he's a very good player. So I love what Oaklama City did from that perspective.

And then if you look at what the San Antonio Spurs did, I don't know how you can't. I don't know you can't like what the Spurs did in terms of trying to rebuild this franchise, which has kind of been they've been very average. So hands a better version of Jayleen Williams, more talented offensively but also hybrid defensive player, tougher than hell Malich I random is going to be a really good scoring wing. And then you got Blake Wesley,

you take it, and and Kennedy Chandler. This to me gives credence to the idea that they may make a change at point guard because both of the both of them. Kenny Chandler is interesting because he's kind of a Chris Paul clone, but that position, true point guard, especially under six ft tall, it's a hard win. The NBA Wesley very good downhill player. So I like what's an Antonio did. Anyway, we'll at the part three we'll talk more about these

traft picks. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball.