All Ball - NFL Draft Dreams + Draft Behind-The-Scenes with Andy Phillips

I want to give you a couple thoughts on the KD thing, on the Kyrie thing, I guess, on the DeAndre Ayten thing, right, the DeAndre Etan thing is the newest thing where wait, so Phoenix didn't want DeAndre Aten and then they match a deal with the Indiana Pacers and it The whole thing is bizarre, right, the whole thing is, especially the way their season ended last year. Maybe they've convinced themselves they can win with a traditional, more traditional NBA center. And Chris Paul was the problem.

I don't know, but you play this game of chicken. Most people thought that he was potentially a sign and trade trade bait and he ends up getting a gigantic deal that you match and now you can't trade him until January. Wow. That just does not feel like the Suns as well run an organization as they have been since they basically hired Monty Williams. Right, that's that was part of the turn in this organization. You go back to the bubble they're laws to bubble that one does not.

One means they're out of the Kadi sweepstakes, and two that's a really hard like cap to put back on, you know, I mean, the genie is out of the bottle based upon how it ended and many of the alleged feelings on that team about DeAndre Aden or like in the organization about DeAndre Ayden. So I'm not saying Aden stings. I don't believe that you're going to be able to win big with him because of his lack of versatility. That's what the league is all about. But

I could be wrong, and maybe they know more. But if you don't love a guy and you end up beholding to him and signing him, it's one thing. If you're not a well or an organization, you're not competing for a championship they are. Or maybe you need him in the in the West because you have Yokich at the five right, and you feel like, hey, we're not just going to have to go through Yokich. We have to go through wise Been coming back. We have to

go through some traditional bigs. But I don't know. I guess you know, Minnesota's got two bigs everybody's loading up with big guys, even though the team that didn't have big guys just won another championship. Right, all right, I'll give you some thoughts on KD as well. You have to you have to offer the moon, the stars in the sun if you want him. And everybody's playing this game of chicken and seem to be drawing the line and said, hey, we're not going to offer everything for

Kevin Durant. But look, the going rate is what Rudy Gobert got plus some. The going rate is whatever the Knicks have to give up to get Donovan Mitchell. The going rate is going to be astronomical. The question is, really, where does he end up since it's not going to be Phoenix. I think I still think Miami fits. I feel like he's part of that sort of you want to call it heat culture that they call it. Yeah, he loves the hoop, he loves the ball. That's one fits.

I just don't know if they have the assets and the assets they do have the ones that he wants to play with. I thought I thought you needed a special treat for all ball. This This this is really good, really really good. Andy Phillips joins me. Okay, Andy was an undrafted free agent, had a cup of coffee in the preseason with the Green Bay Packers. But this podcast, many times is about the journey. Here's his You grew up where Lansing, Michigan border race, so for most people

who are not Michiganians, Michiganeans, Michiganders, that's the unofficial word. Okay. So is there a legit difference between Lansing and East Lansing. Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, Doc, Yeah, So there is an actual difference, not just directional. It is there are two different cities, and Lansing is the capital. East Lansing is a stone throw away. But there's absolutely a difference. So I wouldn't say I grew up in Spartan country, but

my front door was ten minutes from the Breslin. Okay, So were you a Hooper and a football player growing up or just a football player? I did everything I did, basketball, football, baseball kid growing up, got the high school and my love was football, so I subbed out baseball for track for three or four years, and I love all sports. But yeah, I'm a huge, huge basketball fan, huge football fan. But when you're six too even and a stock of yer build. You kind of go more of the football

route than the basketball once you get rolling. Were always a center. No, no, So you know what's funny is I actually in high school I played My main position was linebacker. I was I was this heights in eighth grade and you know, by my senior year, I was about two forty two fifty and I was playing inside linebacker and fullback running back. Really once a Central Michigan University is my only offer as a defensive end. You're skipping,

You're you're skipping. Don't don't skip. I won't skip, so no, so don't skip. So you're playing inside linebacker, that's right for your starter diversity. You playing fullbacker, you're running running, started just pummeling dudes. That's it. But what's they actually are? It's the only offensive position. I feel like that's like defense, right because as much as as as pat run blocking, I think a little bit to it, but you gotta

pass block and I was sif. But in terms of just being able to take dudes out right, like like football's here's my thing with football. Lots of guys will say, oh, well, Lebron James wouldn't have been a good twelve players didn't want to get hit. Nobody. Lots of guys don't want to get hit. Now do they want to hit somebody's different? No one says like, yeah, I can't wait to get earhold. Man.

That sounds like a good idea. But fullback sounds especially for six two two forty in high school, that sounds like a hell of a good time. And listen, you're exactly right, because linebacker fullback of the same thing, get the same objective. You're filling a gap and trying to put your screws on somebody's chest and see who wins. But you're right, ray Lewis did not like to be hit.

He liked to do the hitting. And when you're in high school, to me that it really separates kids because a third of the team is out there because their parents are making them. The other third is out there because they think they love football, and then there's the third that actually do love football and want to go

out there. And listen, from the offensive line standpoint, they're just saying, there's no greater feeling than moving a person against their will from point A to point B. Well, if you do the same thing when you're playing inside back, er two because you can fill a hole and tat you of running back and drive him either into the ground a few feet or back that way. Either way, it's the best feeling on the planet. Why were you lightly recruited. I think there's a bunch of different reasons.

This was before Huddle. I mean, once Huddle came about and college coaches could get any film, they wanted any kid in the country like that and helped I was in the air. I graduated twenty ten. That was still mainly in the you gotta go to your summer camps and you gotta send out your tapes. Well, first off, I was a four year starter in the varsity school,

good basketball program, good track program. I was five and thirty one at football, So we had a really poor football program that time, especially hard to get recruited at that point. Also, I think I was playing out of position. I mean I was six two two forty and no one saw my hand in the dirt, and I think that would have probably helped my case a little more. You know, I was getting recruited by Michigan State since my freshman year. They're inviting me to games and all

that good stuff. But the day I think six two wasn't six four two forty two fifty Playing linebacker wasn't like seeing somebody with their hand in the dirt to maybe see that creativity of can this guy play something else? Can this defensive end? Can we bump him into a three tack? Can we can this even a tight end? Can we bump them down into the tiered off the line?

I think the combination of not getting great notoriety via playing on a poor team and then probably being a little bit out of position didn't help my recruiting case. But you know, end of the day, got my one offer and that's all I needed. So who recruited you at at at Western Central Michigan? Yeah? That was sacrilege. That zacrilege? Apologize who who recruits at Central? Bush Jones? I was Butch Jones? Who was who is the position coach?

That was coach Strippling, who followed Buch Jones to Cincinnati and then Tennessee, and he was all about keeping defensive end. I pushed Jones and his staff left a month before signing day. I never played I never played for Wait wait wait, wait, wait, So so you have one offer, that's right, and then the coach leaves and what's what's that like? Well, because so most guys open the recruitment back up, I didn't have recruitment to open up. So

now I'm sitting there and I'm praying. I'm like let them. I mean, Ball State would come in and talk to me and just kind of like they weren't offering me, they you know, keep me around. And so I'm just seeing this way to see who Central Michigan hires. And my hope was they were going to promote from within, like maybe the maybe Strippling because he was the assistant

head coach, maybe just promote him and everything's good. Well, they end up hiring Dan you knows, which was actually good for me because he'd been the running back coach of Michigan State for years and he'd been one of the guys who would talk to me on those business when I go out to every games. There was something

enough there and for him too. He's coming in three weeks before signing day, needing to fill a class, so I think he was in that was short enough time where he needed to keep some of us than you did you go in the spring or did you not go until after graduation? No, didn't go to after graduation end of June. Okay, so what are you still playing on playing D line? Like, what is the what was it like when Enos gets there? Yeah, so when Edos got there, they wanted me to play. They were they

were talking about three tech. So I was the defensive en days were done, those down to three tech. I was coming off from the shoulder surgery in high school. I had ac joint before my senior season. Played the senior season, which idiotic looking back on it, but played my senior season, needed the surgery after the season, and then so I was rehabbing a little bit still going into my summer at Central playing scout team defensive line. Hurt the shoulder again towards the end of that year.

Help me out, Help me out in terms of the difference when you're the change in three technique. Okay, now again this is this is just I played football, but obviously not the line. So here's how I'm visioning you get there. You're two forty three technique, they're movie the inside. It's like a run stopper, right, That's that's more. Okay, that's your run stopper that has the ability to get

after the passer. A little bit. Are you lining up over the guard of the center outside shoulder of the garden, so you're between the guard the tackle, Okay, And did they tell you, hey, dude, you're at two forty you need to throw on however much weight. Meanwhile, you got a shoulder, so there's a lot of lifting you can't do. Like these things seem to go counterintuitive a little bit. Again,

this is more outso shot. So I was able to come back from my senior year in high school for the last handful of games of basketball season, probably heir to early by one play playoffs, all that good stuff. And I remember being on phone. I started getting away because I knew, even if I was playing decent event, they were going to want me in the two sixties. So I was able to start lifting put on some weight.

And I remember a couple of weeks before I'm about to head the central I get a call from the new d line coach and he's asking what I'm wating, and I said, at the time I was up to two fifty seven. I was pretty thrilled. And I hear you knows, coach, you knows in the background, yell tell him he's got to eat more. Gotta get on more weight, so they end up getting me up too by the

time I get there and through the summer. I probably entered training camp in the two seventies and it wasn't a bad way, but yeah, there was some lifts that were still hurting the shoulder, and I don't know if you've ever heard rac joint, but anything over the head. So even a straight bench press a decline was actually better just based on that. So I knew stuffing was still wrong, but I was able to put on the

weight you might do. I was mainly a linebacker in high school, so even defensive end was a little bit of a transition. But then going down to the three tech, you realize ham placement means so much more than anything else. At linebacker in high school, You're coming downhill and I'm throwing forms and shoulders and head at people. Where when you get the three tech and you're getting in there, it gets College is all about where can I get my hands on that guard on my target, on my

little target this big? Can I get them there faster? And he gets his on me? And that was the toughest thing taught for me to learn. While pairing that with your feet as well. It's an incredible, incredible learning experience, especially because now I'm that's my focus, right, But now I got the offensive tackle during your fifteen pounds trying to come down to me on a double team as well.

Incredible experience. However, little did I know while you're playing scout team you spend most of your time actually with the offensive line because you're their dummies during drifts. So the offensive line coach going to look at me for a few months and it wasn't point in time they change your own at surgery end of the season on the shoulder again, cleaned everything up, and then they moved me at the very end of spring ball, so I

couldn't do anything spring ball. Actually from the surgery, I had a blood clot in my arm and rehabbing all that. All this stuff is a freshman you don't want because the last thing you want as a freshman you're just trying not to get forgotten about, you know what I mean, because you can easily try and replace you. And I ended up getting moved to April of my red shirt year, and that was time to really put on some weight.

How far is this from home, our north? How often did you go home freshman year, maybe once a month. I get home for a night and get a good meal, and by the by the time your senior year, you know what I mean, you got your friends up there. You're acclimated more so, not nearly as much, but it was there. It was far enough yet close enough. What is what is the town? Like my pleasant is a

college town? It was when I was there. There's about fifty thousand people in town and twenty five thousand or students, so in the summers it's a desert. It is. You have your handful of great bars, great bars, and you have a casino, and then you have the Chippewa River and outside of that it's not much. But it's the perfect place to go to college because it's great collegetown, great fun, little bars. Casino there. I don't know why, but it's only casino in Michigan. You'll have to be eighteen.

So if you want to go there and lose your scholarship check in one night, you could. We tried to avoid as much as possible. And then besides that, it was just in the summers, though you had to you could have your fun, but not no one else is in town, but pretty much to fall athletes, and for most of the summer the football players were the only ones because even like the basketball team got a few, you know, a month off or so, so you you had to be on your piece and keys a little bit.

Best bar in mel Puss you said, there's some good bucks. You're a little question. But if I had to pick one, I'd say, Oh, Kelly's why, multiple reasons. Ay, two sides. You got the classic bar side, massive TVs. Pint Night on Tuesday's that kind of atmosphere crossover to the other side. It's called wayside, And that's more like the club experience in my club. I mean, I'm not talking like nothing you'd find in Vegas. I'm talking you'd find a small

town mouth pleasant. Oh yeah, let's listen. You had it in Stillwater. Stillwater, you had you had the Tumbleweed, okay, which is a couple miles outside of town. But then you also had there's a club there. Oh man, I'm I'm I'm blanking what the club was called. But there was like a small like club there too, right, And you go and postgame the football players are in there. Then you go outside of the big country bar and they're line dancing like crazy and you go back inside.

Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the iHeart Radio app. Search f s are to listen live. So okay, So now you're rolling into your second year, you're coming off from shoulder surgery. What then, Now it's time to play some football. And so I missed spring ball because I was rehabbing. So I didn't even get the spring ball leading up to my freshman season to get going on offensive line.

So I'm spending all summer. I basically was attached attached to the hip to starting interior linement nam Darren Keaton, who spent a little bit time with the Lions. I attached myself to him and said, hey, I know you're one of the brightest guys in the team. I'm gonna follow your lead. Tell me how to be great. And between him and the officsive line coach Mike Cummings legendary,

he had four different stints at such a Michigan. He's now he just had both of our offensive tackles actually from such missions past year, drafting second and third round, and then he just went to University of Cincinnati's there's no offensive line coach between those two. They got me ready mentally for a training camp. And when I got to training camp, you know, I got up to three hundred how much of that was waterway and fell off fast. I mean by the end of the season, I was

two seventy five. But I got up there, and it was really just trying to show myself and listen, I joked with my office one coach. For two years, I was a linebacker playing off as a line My feet were all over the place. I ended up on the groundboard. I showed just trying to get after people. I busted my tail to do so. And my key was learning the playbook as fast as I possibly could, because listen, if I'm wrong, I'll be wrong with my technique. And

learned that. But I wanted to make sure mentally I'm on every check possible, because I won't see the field to even make physical mistakes if I can't get there mentally. So it was all learning all that kind of stuff, all while trying to figure out in my center and my guard and I both I can't play tackle. I'm short, so learning and snap learning and do all this kind of stuff. It was a whirlwin and I'll never get the practice that it kind of clicked and everything was

coming together for me. I was starting to click during training camp, well, those two day dog days, and I remember the head coach just coaching. I was yelling over to the offensive line area, basically saying, I don't know who our five are going to be, but we better

have Phil Egineer. And I remember that moment was kind of like, all right, I got some confidence role and ended up I was a sixth man by the time the season started, and injury happens, and I ended up starting the last half of the season, and like I said, started a center. Then I got moved to guard the following year, so my next three years were there. But yeah, so I started as a freshman the last five games of the season at center, and like I said, last game,

I was probably two or seventy six pounds. Who's your quarterback back? Then? It was Ryan Radcliffe, who he's a good player. He was a you know, he was a twenty five touchdown ten, big kind of guy, a really good arm. He was the quarterback there for me first two years. So what's that? What are those emotions, like though to go from you kind of lost your freshman year, just trying to be around, getting getting pummeled, playing out of position too. Now you're starting center on the other

side of the ball, position you never played. Last five games are the most important five all mac mac games? Right, what's it like? It's crazy? It's you know, you go from thinking you're forgotten about and just wanting to make sure that they're not trying to get rid of you.

And there's an old story that when I had my blood clot you know, not gonna name name, but I got a call from coach and it's kind of one of those Yeah, you have blood clot, you're missing you're making you staying lancing for a couple of weeks to test my blood. Don't let me go out to school for the first week on the second semester, Like do you want to you sure you can even play football again? Like I was smart enough to understand what I was. I was a guy who was to them, hadn't proved anything,

often injured. Can we get can we get this kid scholarship back? And then, like you said, fast forward and next thing I know, I'm on the opposite side of the ball. A few months later, starting in Division one football games, it was incredible. It was an experience any of that I want to forget. But also it moved so fast because the learning curve. It wasn't like I was just waiting, chopping at the bit to play the

position I played my whole life. It moves so fast because every single day was something new technique, mentally studying learning to play the position, and then to ultimately be put into the games and then next year get start kind of piecing together, You start figuring things out and boom, the season's over. But to be able to get to that point of within a eight months span of thinking do these guys know my name? To being the guys

starting off the plays was pretty incredible. Offensive alignment to us Notre Dame. I hung out with the offensive linement strike me as strike me as two things, one very very bright and two very very gross. Like the discussions about anything from anything from beer to like they used to go to CJ's Bar, I think in South Bend and like get a picture of beer, and then the beer would get down to and then somebody pissing the beer, and then they put the more beer in it and

try and get somebody to drink it. Right, And I'm being tamed in terms of some of the grossness. On the other hand, they're also like super bright dudes, and there'd be some really interesting discussions your crew early on. You're a young guy, but midwestern guy, right, equacious. Give me give me the best, give me the best gross story and the most interesting guy. I love that question. Actually, so this is good. You just want early on? No, you give me whatever. I okay all time. Yeah, I'm

gonna I'm pg gross. My buddies in the door my freshman year, we used to. I used to let them on occasion. I said, go make me an ice cream Sunday. You can put anything you want in the cafeteria in it, and I'll eat it for five bucks. So they'd come back with I mean, I'm talking mustard, soy, sauce, beans, anything you could think of, and I eat it for five bucks. Very ill, put on weight, go for I mean that that was. Looking back on it, you know,

a little disappointed in myself. You gotta do. You tend to get some bucks when you're in college. So hold on, don't don't, don't tell the Philip he's gotta try to get weight, Philip and I was there, So that was a good one. Interesting character. So there's a lot of interesting characters. Oh gosh. Really kid named Dylan Anderson brother Rice High School, Great high school in Michigan. We he never played, but was the one of the funniest humans on the planet. Constantly had a shirt off and he

you know, he wouldn't care. I said this. He had one of those cartoons like stomachs, like just like perfectly round. Yes, you know what I mean, like perfectly round. And he had a bad habit as a freshman of showing up late, whether it was to class, whether it was to meetings, whether it was to a lift and cause the older guys got sick of it, and he was. He was a freshman, so I was a year to older than him, sick of it and made him get on the table

in her offensive line room with a shirt off. I had attempt to do set ups, which again I'm talking about a cartoon belly wasn't his. Yeah, we're doing impossible, an impossible set up. Don't tell me the impossible setup story. They weren't known they were. They were real setups. Yeah, not set ups. And every time he did a sit up, he had to scream out in the room, I'm fat, I'm fat. And I remember that moment, just thinking like,

thank god, this kid's a good sport. Yeah, you know what I mean, but that thank god, this is back in uh what two thousand and what shit? Uh? This is two thousand for years? Is probably that would have been twenty eleven, twenty twelve, right right, it happens in twenty twenty two. And you guys like getting arrested, right, And I'll even I'll even go on that too. One of our traditions on the office line we went out

to dinner with the quarterback every Thursday before games. Every Thursday, Old Line's going somewhere in time and going dinner, and our tradition was freshman at one of those dinners had to get up, no matter where the restaurant was and sing a song of your choice. So mine was. We went to Bennigans, which is like an Applebey's. When the ben begins, it is the it's a Thursday dinner time.

Dead quiet in there, like they barely music playing, And I had to get up and stand up on like the stage or whatever they had, and I say friends in low places, Arth Brooks, Oklahoma State, you know, and it was a blast. Anyways, by the time when I was a senior, that was that was next those knicks. Unfortunately, that was fairly fairly Yeah, thank you, but yeah, I would say Dylan Anderson what my million other different names. Our coaches referred him as Dorfman from Anna Moss and

he's find the most interesting character. But great, dude, Okay, so from that, how did your college career go? Yeah? So then the next year, after my freshman year, I played my freshman I played that year. I didn't mention with a broken flux, so I'd have surgery after the season. So here I am three straight winners, three straight surgeries, going back to high school. So I have surgery, miss another shreen ball, and now I'm like, all right, sure, I started five games, I by know me secured a

starting spot. I'm still getting used off into line. Well. Our coach is a best five out there kind of guy, and early in camp he realized the best five men this other kid, another freshman who had red shirted, and centered me at guard. So I bumped over the left guard and spent the next three years started every game at left guard at Central Michigan. I would say some

of the highlights were my soft that sophomore year. We went down and well, first off, we got our tails Kate in Michigan State came to Mount Pleasant, so big game had to bring an extra stance. Kelly Short stated in molds, I think thirty thirty two thousand. They brought in like an additional eight thousand and found places to put them, kicked our teeth in. Wasn't competitive. We go down to Iowa the next week and beat Iowa on the craziest game of crazy game. Better part, We're up

by like three most of the game. Third quarter or being the fourth quarter, they take over. They're up by nine, and if I recall correctly, we go down score a touchdown with I don't know, forty five seconds a minute left on site, can't get it, two plays, forty seven yard field goal, game over. And it was the loudest stadium I played. I played at the Big House, I

played a spartan stadium played down at NC State. But the single loudest stadium was probably because it was a competitive game like those stams probably could have got there, but that was a single lot of stadium because hey, they're fans. Their sideline is five yards. I mean, you don't have space behind you when your coach is trying to talk to away you're sitting on the bench. They're fans. Are my jersey is behind? I mean they're right there. And it was just but you hear a pin drop

as soon as that field will went in. Unbelieva feeling going to my junior year. So so so and for people who I think most people listen to this pod will get it. But tell me if I'm wrong. Everybody's central. I want to play at Iowa right, like the match is made. The hunt, Oh you're saying, big Tea just in terms of the Big ten is made up of dudes who were told, hey, dude, you're a little too slow, you're a little too small. You just you're good, but

you're not big. And the Big ten is fucking arrogant, right and they rightfully so like that is especially on the offensive line, right because and an Iowa offensive line, right, they they're like the new Nebraska, Like they walk in likely and and to go in there and get a win, I can't imagine. I mean that wash Brandon Sheriff was their left tackle that year, and yeah, I mean those are a big ten offensive linement. We have every every single one of us. And if anyone tells you otherwise,

they're lying to try and have some mac pride. But no, we all wanted to. I was holding out committing to Central Michigan, waiting for my Missigan Michigan State offer until then I'm thinking like, all right, I gotta commit, you know what I mean? So yeah, absolutely, but so you're going there, you have a chip on your shoulder. What is that chip going to be enough? But it was

that day, and so yeah, you get that. Win was great my senior year, which I don't know if I's work too far, but we beat down We beat down another big ten team. We went too per new and I don't know if you remember the name Thomas Rawls. He spent the time to Seattle running back. He transferred from Michigan. He was our running back. We ran power so pulling guard double team on the front side. We had it ran that near twenty times in the second half. I pulled pretty much Allen, so it's just me and

Thomas through the whole. We beat the absolute dog shit out of them. Part of my language. Yeah, it was okay good. It was thirty eight seventeen and it wasn't close. It was to go into a big ten stadium. We got their first possession, We got pick six our first possession. Our quarterback at that point was a sophomore Cooper Rush, who was the Dallas Cowboy backup. He was the quarter member by the last two years. He threw like a sixty yard touchdown. So we're up fourteen, nothing like that.

It just it was never a game in the middle linebacker. Shout out to Seawan Robinson. He was like complimenting me in the fourth quarter, like our team. He's like, you guys, just get after man. I would love to play for your team. I was thinking for myself. I was saying myself, might want to focus on playing for your own right now. But it was those wins, like you say, because those are the guys who they said were better than us.

Totally totally get it. When you're when you're now and how how how much did you weigh then when you're playing guard? I was a consistent three or five. I was able to hold it. So now you're now you're three h five pulling guard. What's a better feeling? Okay, back when you were high school and you're either fullback or linebacker laying some dude out, or when you're three oh five coming downhill as a pulling guard. It's three

or five downhill. But the reason being, I know the guy who I'm who I'm laying out is a better athlete, you know, I because high school something you can lay a dude down. It's like he doesn't want to be there. He's one hundred and thirty four pounds. It doesn't feel as good when you take a two hundred fifty pound mic linebacker and you you get the leverage and you get underneath him and you're bearing him into the ground. There's no better feeling on planet Earth. That's awesoon, that's awesome.

Did you know when? Did you know Cooper Rush was a dude? Right? Like like Couper Rush. So he's from Lansing, Michigan's well, he's from Charlotte, but he went to Lanson Catholic Central. So I knew of Cooper Rush for a while and he's two years younger than me. He was always an accurate quarterback. He's funny man because he talked about a hooper. That guy can hoop. But He's not like your quarterback, your classic quarterback that like sits outside.

He is Kevin McHale in the post. He's got feet prevailing. Yes, yeah, Greg, Greg moves down a little. Anyway. I knew was the dude. He came in his very first game was my junior year. He was a redshirt freshman. We opened up at the Big House at Michigan. Starting quarterback third series, breaks his collar bone. Done for the year. They bring in the

next guy. It wasn't even Cooper got Cooper's third string week one, by week two are he comes in in the second quarter because the other guy just wasn't cutting in. They were playing one double a school. This was supposed to be our or now a warm up. Michigan just had their warm up with us. This is supposed to be our warm up. And after the first quarter we're down like ten knocks were tank passed the training. It's horrible.

Kup comes in halfway through the second quarter and finishes a day with three hund twenty yards, three touchdowns, note picks, and I'm all right, so the kids a gamer. A few weeks later, we're down in Athens at Ohio playing the Bobcats. That is that's one of the I would say, one of the better MAX stadiums. If you ever get a chance to go down to Athens. I guess Joe Burrow's dad might have been on staff then, and we've

gone there a tough environment. They're a better team than us, for sure, but we're clicking that day and he led a game winning drive. That was his first game winning drive, and I was like, dude's got some stones, I think. And then my senior year was his sophomore year. We were playing the Bahamas Bowl, inaugural Bahamas Bowl, and it was actually this was up the final play was up for the sp that year for best play. But some dude, we're number thirteen in New York at some one hand

to catch. People were able to bout one it. So we were down at ten month left of the game. We're down by thirty five to Western Kentucky. Defense is five shrace stops. We score five straight touchdowns. Last play of the game was a hail Mary. They got flipped around three different times, touchdown forty nine to forty eight. We went for two and didn't get it. But Coop said a record at the time seven touchdowns in that game and I was like, I think this is duds

gonna be all right. And two years later with Cowboys with players football changing those type of boat bulls. I don't know if they're gonna go away, if they're gonna stay, but you're gonna You will always get people who haven't experienced it who will say those games don't matter if they don't mean anything, do they? Yes, And listen, I get it, like I don't. I'm not the guy guy that sits here and watches every bull game now that I out of it. But for the guys involved in

means something. I mean, listen, I played in two Bowl games, was eligible another time of the year, we're eligible and didn't make it. We're devastated and to go there even I mean, yeah, it means and you play, you know, and I know you're asking me to explain, but it's just you have a pride in yourself and you have an end goals. And when you're playing that, especially like at Max School and the schools that are going to these kind of bowls, you know you're not playing for

the national title. You know, even if you go Central Mission. We knew if we went thirteen to twelve and then won the MAC championship, we weren't going to the playoff. I mean, so your bowl games matter, it's your championship, it's your time to get on the national stage is the other thing. And your time to compare yourself against guys and other conferences, because listen, you can be the best due in the back, but can you be a dude against everyone in the country is what you want

to prove. And again, you know your game's gonna be on national TV, which you have a handful every year when you're in the MAC. You know that games again, the bread lights are going to be bright, and you're gonna have people from all the country tune in to watch you. And can you show out? And can your team get in there and get it done against you know, a team that is supposed to be at your level

but in a different conference. It's kind of a little bit of pride in that too, So it absolutely means something. But I agree, I don't know what college is going to turn into. It it's a endless I don't want to be like the you know, I don't feel like the guy who's like, oh, you have old school thoughts, But I don't know. I kind of like the way I liked the way things were, I liked the conferences, and I was again, this is I'm gonna get I'll get heat for this, I'm sure. But I was always

the guy. Listen, if you wanted to give me a few hundred bucks when I was in college to get buy in the summers, I would have taken it. I would have loved it. But I've never been the type of guy that thinks that we should have got paid. I think there's really then and again, I don't know what your feelings are on this, but I'm gonna understand that A we're gonna education, We're geting our college paid for it. Be my thought and belief system was, especially

after being out and after being out of it. I think there's a level of hierarchy when kids aren't making the money. Because I'm looking at the dude and good for him, who's gonna poorly get three million dollars Addison going to USC Is he gonna be making more in his receiver coach is my question? And if he shows up to a meeting, how's he going to be disciplined? I mean, you're talking about seventeen to twenty two year

old kids. Who need that discipline to survive life, and I think the money could really cost them pick ups for that. So I was never on that. So again that was my biggest take up. And then now that there's more money involved, the conferences are changing. I just I don't know what the landscape is. It feels like it's it went from amateurism to minor league NFL real fast, which is which is interesting because I think people think it's always been the minor leagues. It hasn't. And here's

the thing about minor league sports. People don't care about minor league sports. They like college sports, yes, but they also like college sports, and I don't know necessarily know it's because they don't get paid. I think it's like it's about the regional rivalries, like Michigan and UCLA in the same league, Like what are we doing exactly? Like like part of part of the beauty of this whole thing is like the Max's a perfect example, but you could even say the Big Ten is most of those

guys all came from the same area. They you know they and you chose your school. I chose mine. Michigan passed on this kid, so we had to go to Indiana, Okay, and you're like, fuck, fuck Michigan your whole life. And when you get to play Michigan, you're like, right, those are that's that's the way it works, and we're destroying all that. I would also say that here's the crazy here's the crazy part. Paying football players before they've played a down of college football is insane on a multi Look,

here's the first part. They're not good enough to play right away. They're just not. So what's going to happen. They're gonna get a bunch of money, they're gonna show up, and either you play them right away, which is to the detriment of the team. And we talked about right the player right played him for he's ready, But also you got like, what's the point of staying around here? Tell him the junior and a senior when it's my

turn to shine? Okay? And you if you don't play him because he's not really that good, something he transfers and he goes somewhere else, the cycle will continues. Yeah, it's a it's a it's an absolute absolute mess. In the transfer rule, I hate, like, now the one time transfer you can transfer, I can sit out crazy. They're like super teams, Like what are we gonna get in this whole whole college all sports? But I loves the thing.

Like it's like everybody said, well, like J. J. Watt transferred up, great, he also sat out so he could change his party, right, change his body and assimilate to a higher level of football. It doesn't happen, right, that's rule actually benefits the player. But we have people who you know, it doesn't make you waste a year of eligibility getting ready for your next step. No, no, yeah, and the listen, I know we're in the era of that.

You know. I just I don't have to back like this is a legit discussion that I just I think that people think. Listen, man, yes you were in America. Yes there's freedom. It doesn't mean there can't be Like legislation doesn't mean there can't be rules. Rules are okay, guess what rules are actually okay. It's also it's also like part of it is part of it is like what's everybody's like, Well, if you achieve something college, you achieve some college, you can go be a professional. Right,

That's that's the way. That's what we're Actually you're really good, you're gonna make a lot more money, life changing money at the next level. Okay, So, yes, we're off our soapbox. You and I actual agreement. You have a different perspective on it, which is fascinating. Okay, so you get downe with college. Yeah, you started for parts of four years, right, four years. If you include those five games, you're you're

redshirt freshman year at center right now? What So I was getting some calls from agents before my senior season. Our coach didn't like us talking to agents, so pretty much once I'm star, I was told my dad, I'm gonna direct everything to you. Hopefully I get an opportunity. We'll see. I was on back a couple of times, so I figured I at least had that going for me. I knew I was smart enough to play at the next level. I knew I know the work ethic, but we all know that that should be a given, not

a that's not a write of passage. So I just wanted to play my senior figure it out. And by the time I came home for Thanksgiving, my dad a couple of agents us. These are the ones that I talked to. They seem legit. There. Maybe give this guy call. He was my favorite. So I called. His name was Carter Chow worked. He's a partner for Yean Duban Sports, which Dan Sports. They're famous for being the agency with Tom Brady and Julian Needelman and Garoppolo and Sean Payton,

those guys. So I called him and I, you know, we had a really good conversation and it's like I told me, Dad's like, I don't really need to talk to anyone else because listen, he proven to work with guys from smaller schools, have some creativity with talking language wise. I mean he had I have a great story about how he had to work with the Patriots and Edelment not knowing him, he's a project, he's a can State quarterback.

But so I knew he was able to work with small school guys and so yeah, I signed with them. After my Bowl game, I signed with the Induban Sports. They moved me out to California, moved me out to Manhattan Beach, had me stash up there. I worked out the Exos down near Englewood, and I mean this is right near area, I guess, But so I worked over the Exos down there, which that was again you're we're talking about comparing yourself earlier, about like when you play

a Big ten team. Well this was it. I mean, I'm there with dudes from UCLA and USC and Michigan, cash, smaller in Nebraska, gash from all over country, and I'm trying to compare myself, and man, I just I locked in. I it was as if I was often I was about and I was Rocky and Russia getting ready to fight drag. It was one of those I just you know what I mean, And I was bought in and

anything they told me that I did. And you know, even though it saying I'm a offensive linement and I didn't have a drop of beer in my system the entire time I'm out there, I was just because I have one shot at this thing. I want to make sure I give him my all. And it wasn't an agent took a shot. I mean they're paying money invest thing. I mean I want to make sure he's going to

get the best opor fee on his investment. So I trained out there, didn't invite to the Combine, So I had to go to the pro Day show up to Pro Day March twentieth, twenty fifteen and six to even so that was a little bit one of these, you know, not six one seven eight six too, even like that was And I remember my agent he kept saying, because you got to I was training to COPIBORNI. Yet I

was a bunch of weight. We're working out, you know, pulling two days, and they were trying to decrease fat and increase multiple with ed your decrease in the fat. By time that everything came about, I am to ninety six two ninety five, and he's like, B three hundred under prod, B three hundred under pro day, Like that number means something like all right, I A. This had to been near midnight the night before, and I'm like,

I'm light. I know, I'm like, I made a box of jambalaya and ate the entire thing six hours BEFOREHI getting up for my pro day, hugging the water, and I waited three hundred point zero right in the bathroom, piss come back and boom, bench press has already started. Said not your o. The pro day. Had a good pro day. I ran four nine nine, another good thing

to get right under. And then you know, twenty six pence reps and you know, showed out in the drills and I called my agent after He's like, he's not a BS so he wouldn't sugar going thing. He's like, hey, man, you might just got yourself drafted. Very cool. So now I'm now it's the waiting game and I lead up to the draft. Man, I'm just getting some calls here and there. You know from from teams, offensive line coaches, scouts.

Who knows. Two teams that showed the most interests were easily the Falcons, who one of their coaches actually didn't ran the offensive line workout at my pro day though I'd fit really good into their zone scheme because that's when they were transitioning offensively from more gas scheme to the more zone scheme, and he thought, my athletics zone scheme, it's more about your athletic ability and your movement. And

they're everyone that unfold viewing me as a center. They're like, all, we know you played guard, but your size, your quickness, space and space, you're gonna fit more. And you had short arms, which is a thing I didn't even though it was important until I as I had them, and then Chicago bears to the point that come draft day, not mind you, I'm smart enough to understand that I wouldn't even have a chance to know where I'm going

until day three. But we're in an hour before the first round starts on Thursday, and Dave Magazoo rest in peace. He actually just passed away last year. He was off line coach of Bears. He calls me an hour before the first round starts and goes, hey, man, it should be a great weekend for you and your family. Can't wait to talk to you here soon. Talk all right. Well, I at least think I got a shot with the Bears day three, right, because then they didn't have a

seventh round picks a couple of six round picks. Anyways, draft comes and go I don't get I don't get picked up. I don't get drafted. And the funniest part is the Bears and Falcons both on the radio silent after the draft, both at communication with my agent in the late rounds, like, hey, make sure the phone's ready, all this kind of stuff, right, radio silent after the draft. I'm talking ten minutes, twenty minutes go by, thirty minutes go by, and I'm like, your coach shop, your agent

coaches you up, like, hey, it's the draft. If you don't get drafted once the seventh problems starts. I'm already be having conversations with teams during the seventh round about if years not picked, we want to bring him in. Here's his undrafted for agent contract we would offer him. So my thought was he's probably hopefully collecting a few offers and we can decide. Half hour goes by, hour goes by, and nobody wants me. I'm like, the hell's

going on. Finally he calls and he goes, not great news, but news. He goes, you got a few teams out. At least we'll bring you for a tryout, you know, because they're having the rookie cancer. They bring all the guys they drafted, all the guys they signed in. Then they buy like twenty five tryout guys pretty much because they need to fill a practice. He goes, I got you in Green Bay next weekend. If you don't make it there, Kansas City the following So you show up

free agent rookie camp. Yes, midwestern kid, yep in Green Bay, Wisconsin. That's right, he's a Lions fan. That's a tough life. So shall you pack up your car? If so, I got an it temperary. They said, here's your ticket, which you don't want to fight you on a drive I would have chosen. I actually would have chose to drive. Are you rolling in senior year in college? Ninety eight Chevy Blazer Gold? Wow? Gold? That? Oh yes, it sounds nice right. Yeah, No, no, I had. I had a

ninety five Chevy Blazer. Not that car. However my senior year something was so wrong with it that if you didn't start it for six hours, it wouldn't start. Yeah. So when you have six ample the battery was dead. That just I was needing your battery. Yes, So when I had a six, like you said, like in college, there's kind of a kind of a beauty to not having any money and still figure out a way to survive.

You're ready for life after that. I just have to go ahead at midnight do a couple laughs around around the little complex area, just to make sure it was starting the morning for practice. We were just talking about this the other day. So there was a place and still want to call Fizzoli's. It's like drive drew seeds of fast food, huh no, feats of red six yeah, boss, Yeah, we had one of the lancing all you can eat.

I would roll in at like nine fifty six and I would be like, hey, my man, listen, can I get all your bread sticks? You're about to throw them away anyway, right. I used to go to cold Stone and say, hey, listen, I've heard this isn't true. I know you got some ice cream cakes in the bag that had technically expired, they've been frozen. Can I get them? They used to give me free until they were got

out of the streets. We would do it. We would do We had I had a place like every different place in still one of those fast food Like what time they close? All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go do that. I'm gonna go, Yeah, I'm gonna We had a this is this is we had my junior year, we moved off At junior we moved off campus to a house we called the Palace. Got a tongue plat, right, And there were some girls

that wanted to was it. They wanted to do their laundry because we had a washer dryer, and so they would bring that. We were like, hey, you can use the dryer, but you got to cook his dinner. So like once a week they do the washing dry to come home the house, you smell amazing and we'd have a full meal and like the washers going and then you talk to me like, hey, there's an extraal mode there because you just throw my my washing. They're like

and fold it up nice there too, right. But but it's it's interesting, It's like we are we're really we're really hurting people in that we make it so much easier for him, and there's like a there's kind of a coolness to it, you know, and look and I

know that that some of that has changed. There's a lot more affluence with kids at college, you know, but having your dorm fridge and you know, figuring out, you know, figuring out how to how to have a stereo system that can open to the quad when you're the dorms or then you know, at your at your house or like just anything you can get for free or to

disc or whatever. We we live next to this is the same We lived on Nap Street, same house, the Palace, and we had cops that live next door, and like we baby sat their kids one time and they said, don't worry, We're gonna take care of you, but not with money. We're like, that's weird, but okay. And they would break up house parties like high school house parties and give us the beer and it was amazing, Like they come in like and then we got a case

of beer. It's Natty Like, it's Natty Ice. You're like, oh, daddy, high school. Okay, fine, it's free and you you'd stick it to the fridge. I don't. I don't want my college kids drinking I pas and you know still, I want my kids drinking bush Lights and Natty's and figuring it out. That's life. I agree. There is a there's a beauty in the misery that is just not misery at all because you work through, you figure things out. And yeah, I'm with you again. I don't think everything

is bad that's going on these days. I'm not that guy offer lawn. But I think there's a beauty in the struggle. No, okay, so you get the great so you get out to play in Green Bay? Yeah, and what's it like when you go into the packers? Now, how does it work with the bike thing for the free agent mini camp? Do you have the bike things that that till regular? So? Well? First off, I get to Green Bay and I'm one of twenty five trial guys. So we walk in. They take us all the locker

room first. Unbelievable. I mean, I get I'll come from a back locker room, which is now amazing after the thirty million dollars facility that was just put up. But in my time there, it was like it was nice. It's better my high school. I'm good going to that. One's a different story. Into Lambeau and I'm looking and all these rookies are going up the drafting ones, the

signed ones, to the lockers. Right, I'm like, where all my locker Like, oh no, hey, tryout, guys, come with me down a little tunnel, this, that and the other one in the away team locker room. I'm like, you kind of piss offul of it. Right. Anyways, two days go by and I ended up being the only one. No, are you practicing practice shields or in Lambo? Not not lamb, but who are in the indoor? Indoor? Then Hudson indoor And yeah, so we're in there. We have two practices,

so you really you had? We had meetings until about nine nine thirty. We get back to ho Tell nine nine thirty and me and Brett Humley U sill a form still a quarterback. My boy. I actually trained with him out and he was out Exos with me, so we had a relationship there. They drafted him the fifth round. I'm like, dude, I'm playing cententer to your quarterback. Let's

be on the same page. We stayed up to like twelve thirty studying the playbook, little scenes from snapcounts, checks this time the other, and the next day it actually it showed. I mean you could tell the guys that studied the you had all the cheek codes you had to do, you had to do. And the first day I'm splitting reps with another center from from Oregon. By day two I got ninety percent of the reps because I knew what I was doing, making all the calls.

As a center, you're making every call I d and the mic beg called directing traffic, this, that and the other, busting my ass down the field every freaking play. And anyways, I ended up go through to day cam. Now here's waiting. You're like, so they hold, they hold. They come in, they have a meeting with all the trial guys and say, hey, we'll be touch with your agents. Right, good job. You

guys all all plan on flying out tomorrow. They don't have one guy because because my former brother in law was, they come in the grim Reaper with that's what I called wool okay to be like let you go. Yeah he was. He was a hey, coach, will see you bring your playbook kind of guy. I mean, the last guy you want to see at six am the locker. Well, he's the one that held the meeting basically and said, hey, everyone's flying out tomorrow. Your schedule flight will be contact

with your agents. If we want to bring any of you back tonight, you're going to Bret Fast steakhouse. Great, everyone's pumped. I'm pissed, right because I knew I performed. Anyways, everyone's leaving the team meeting room and Ellie grabbed me, took me to the gym where they had a basketball court actually, and he hey, we're signing new He was the only one. I don't want to make it a big deal in front of these guys. Keep it low, don't tell anyone tonight, come back to Lambo tomorrow. We'll

sign a contract. And I'm just elate, right like all right, So now I feel like I'm where I thought I would be. First, first calls to parents, parents and parents who picked up. Oh, I don't know if it was the parents or I think it was parents one and then my uh uh girlfriend at the time was number two, who's not my wife, but my parents, and I think it was my dad. It was blacked out. I mean, you're just blacked out of that moment. I remember said,

no idea, just like it's over, I'm staying. And I remember like it was I'm in the gym, like not trying to be too loud in case anyone's on the other you know what I mean. And I remember I hugged Delby. I remember that he was probably like getting a barehouse. That's a look at his father is round Wolf all of fame gam from the Packers. Yeah, yeah, but Elliott was a room reaper in camp. He's the last guy you wanted to see, last guy you wanted to see. So yeah, I got signed and I next day,

I know, like the sign my contract. The next day following days show up to ball season and got my locker in the home locker room. That was the moment. That was the one that was kind of like two days ago. I was in the waiting locker room, pissed off, kind of had that moment like fuck, yes, you know what I mean, Like I'm here now, it's a level playing field, you know what I mean? Like here, who's who you near? Lockerwise, she was on left and the right.

Mitchell Henry was lockermate resting PC. Actually, so he was a tight end from Western Kentucky. I just played him in the Boll game. Really good player, bounce round Packers Denver. He brought out to Baltimore. This has been a couple of years later. They were gonna sign him, but they brought him off for a physical and Dona leukemia and he actually passed I think two two or three years ago now, so he was he was. I actually remember who's my other side? Why don't I remember that? Maybe

it was a rotation. I don't know. But it was mainly just the rookies and mostly undrafted guys, and yeah, it was. It was great. And then and then so I don't start OTAs go by midicamp goes by. You're trying to get Rogers? Was he at that? This is before? So yeah, the man. Okay, So I have great Roger stories. I have great Roger stories. Okay, well we have we

have time, okay, so help me out though. Yeah, first time you meet Aaron Rodgers walks in yep, we're It was actually so when I was talking about when they were taking us all to our lockers the first day, He's coming out of the equipment or walking to the equipment room, looks over at all of us and everyone we kind of lose a little freeze, like, oh shit, MVP's looking at us and he smiles. That was one of these slapp these and just kept walking away and

like smile. They got like cool call and like we all kind of got like a chuffle out of it. Was a school next time though, then I get signed very first practice, like walk through stuff comes up to me right away like a Madam Maren. I pulled the classic yeah I know, you know what I mean, like yeah, I know any like last things like hey, it's where you're from, Center Guard and yeah, center Guard your central mission.

The chipwa was like he was just normal, dude. It's funny you always hear like the conversations like everyone like really types up Tom Brady for being the guy that introduces himself to the last man of the team. I'm like, I can testify Rogers does the same thing because I was number eight. They all have they all have this thing. So I met Joe Biden last night and uh the

he has a big deal. So the But like politicians and quarterbacks are the same, the same in that like you and talked to him for five minutes and you're like, holy shit, we're best friends. Like we should go out, we should go out, we should sometime. Oh wait, they get your number? Yeah exactly. Okay, Then what's the experience like to watch him throw a football for the first time? Ridiculous.

I mean, it's one thing seeing something on TV, like probably I watched Steph Curry and it's just like, good God. But to see a person's find whole another story. Right, Watching that guy throw the football, it like it literally spits out like a seat out of his hand. And I remember it was one of the It was early. It was in mini camp and he was out there. They were running a two minute drill and the first time this is before Mahomes was Mahomes first time I

ever saw this. He's is fourth in what happened? Fourth and goal from like the thirteen, He drops back, he scrandmothers and I have I'm behind the end zone view this, so I have I'm behind the offense like this way, so I can have perbe this. He's boom boom boom,

doing a little dance in the pocket. Get starts rolling out to his left, pointing to the corner, zips it back this way to the center of the field between two guys, touchdown rate the chests, and I'm like, so that's how this level is, you know what I mean. Like he's a wizard. There's something wizard and there's some funny stories. But the coolest thing was Lizza Man Aaron Rodgers. He's taking snaps from Corey lins you know what I mean,

He's not taking steps for Cory Linz as time. It was JC Truter do really good centers in Green Bay at the time. That's the reason, so I didn't. I was the STA. I was around him all the time because center cordbacks a lot of stuff, but I wasn't snapping. Their last practice I ever had a Green Bay was the day before the final preseason game, and starters with he wasn't gonna play. So anyways, I go out there and I do go through all like the stuff of

the offense. Well, then it was time for the defense, the number one defense to go out there. I'm you know, you're exhausted from doing your thing. Now you have to go play scout team center. So I get in the huddle. Its gonna be like an eighteen play twenty play script. Aaron comes in the hull, taps off the corn. I goes, I got this one. He's like, I'm not playing tomorrow. Let me let me get after our guys. They could have just thrown the cards away because he changed everything

at the Lions scrimmage. He was going up there. So the defense it is supposed to practice looks at New Orleans is going to give them, and Aaron's checking everything at the List scrimmage, getting us in a good spot. He comes up, so I'm a center. I feel twelve hands right r N. I'm like, I'm not getting this guy hurt. This was supposed to be walk through ish is run through, like first couple of steps hard, then

you're easing off. I fired off the ball as hard as I possibly could at b J Raji, where there had to be kind of like some breakup because he wanted to kill me, Like what are you doing like like I'm not getting him hurt. I'm not getting I'm not letting knocked back into him. And we went eight team plays right down the field. He's checking everything at the line. And the coolest thing for me was you see the Aaron Rodgers hardcount that gets a defensive jump.

I think don't understands is the center has to snap it to get the call. Also, you don't want to be the center that thinks the guys off side just snapped it. He wasn't off sides. And next year it's a fall star left. We got hardcount, boom, guy jumps, I snapped it, he throws a touchdown. He came up, smacked me in the head. Great job, And it was

kind of of those moments, you know what I mean. Yeah, always, I don't know last practice and I've ever played football, and I always thought him like it took me like even a couple of years thinking back to that moment, I'm like, I wonder if he kind of like did that jumped into that huddle or if he does it every year because he knows there's a lot dudes I'll

never play football game. Let's give him a moment. Let me throw to some of these receivers at are going to be you know, going and selling insurance or you know what I mean, Like, I don't know if you know I was. I was able to ask him down the line, and he didn't necessary I at least say yes, that's exactly why I did that, but he kind of said, yeah, i'd like to give you know, I'd like to be out there with the guys, you know what I mean. And I thought that was a cool moment. Yeah, that's amazing.

What's it? What's it like to not play football? Stuff? Everyway you had to figure out, and I think every athlete goes through this at some point, especially if you love the game, unless not everybody loves and everybody wholays the NFL loves loves to play football. I love and still do love football. It's not play. I had to find different ways to have, you know, to redirect your passion. And I think that was the hardest part was finding what that was. And I knew it had to be involved.

That knew it had to be with the game. At some point, I didn't know what area I wanted to be involved in. That That is why I wanted to start getting into more of the media side of it, just because I like to talk about the game. And that was the that was the underrated part of being on a football team, was you get to the camaraderies, unbelievable part in the locker room. But you're always talking ball.

You're always talking ball. When you stopped playing football and you're not locker rooms anymore and you're not you're going to the corporate world of USA, you're not always talking ball. And I really missed that on top of the competitive part. I missed that and so rewrect to get into more media. That's helped kind of fill that same passion bucket a little bit, it stought. I mean, I still like, come September, I'll you know, I'm going to head down to such

a Michigan plays at Penn State at Happy Valley. I'm gonna go to it, and I'm sure I'll give those same genders and same like. Man, I wish I could you know, what's the Toby Key song? And as good as I once was, I'm good was Yeah, I still think that, Like I always say, like I could give you a drive, I don't know if I can give you a quarter anymore. I can give you a drive and you feel that now. I'm sure the drive would

have looked like I hoped it would. But she has to play in a preseason game in Lambo Field and you to play June Lambo one, Hindes Field one, Gilette Stadium. I always said talking about like listen, not there's anything wrong with this, but some guys get like their experiences picked up by the Jaguars. You get to play like the Falcons the Panthers were playing, playing a college stadium

or something. Yeah, right, I got My first preseason game is at Gillette on NFL network right after the news at Tom Brady's gonna be suspended two games for the flight game. When he ran out of that tunnel and he started this is Tom Brady always plays preseason, at least in first goal. He started the game. When he ran out of that tunnel, you know, the hell went off, the hair flowing. Gillette was rocking like a big f you to the NFL basically knowing the games on that

was unbelievable. Week two, what the Hines Field that I was actually Jordy Nelson towards ACL that game and then the last two were against the Eagles. Jordy Tarrett in practice. I remember Jordy Tarret in practice. Not that you're that you're the it was. It was the preseason. It was at Lamba first quarter, remember seeing why what's it like? It was unbelievable to do all the time. If I can compare, like, if you had to describe these places like that wouldn't feel like football heaven Like it was

almost like the field of dreams of football. Like you feel you feed, you do and it sounds corny, but you feel the Lombardi and Lambeau and far in the air. You just there's something about it that I think. Part of it's the fans. Part of it's the fact that it's like dropped in the middle of a neighborhood. Part of it is you know, before you walk out the tunnel, there's a line of brick which has been there forever

for all the revisions. That's part of like the old like that that's been there that every legend who's ever played or stepped foot into Lambau Field had to walk through. And it's across the lecture. I mean that family that every year during training camp, which is a public practice, it sells out every year. I mean, so You're at a packed Lambo stadium for practice and just the ands are insane. Have you ever been there? No, it's it's it is. Let's go this year, let's go, let's do it.

I'm in, I'm in, I'm in. I gotta, I gotta go, I gotta let's do it. Yeah, And so here's my I got a working thought here. Okay, I want to do it to where there's what huh you want to be there? One's cold, yes, but not really fucking cold. You want November, you don't want December? Fair like to me. You know, I've always thought if I could shoot baskets

one place, you never would be. That says for years, if I could shoot baskets on one hoop in the world, it would be wherever the hell that farm was where Jimmy and Hoosiers was playing. Yeah, Like there's something about that, like on the dead grass that who and I think the same thing with like lambeau Field is just like you know, like Field of Dreams, you just know there's something different, something historic, and something special in there. Okay,

let's see here. Okay, So, oh week can and Dallas Cowboys Week eleven week, Yes, Week eleven is the Tennessee Titans. So those are the two. Those are the two November games. Where are we looking at thirteenth and twenty or what is? Yeah? Uh, you're looking at the thirteenth is Sunday and the Thursday night game is Tennessee. Can't do it Thursday a game that doesn't make any ste that's the Dallas Cowboys. I worked for me. Let's do it. Okay, we'll do it.

Remember thirteen. Okay, I'm in now. And then we got we really gotta do We really gotta do it right. He's gotta do like a Wisconsin game like the Saturdays plays, jumping a little bit. Yes, yes, I'm with us. I'm in. Before the game, though, we gotta hit Crowls, best burger in town, get some clients. You're looking right on Lamb. How big a burger? I feel like it's big, wider than thick. They're thinner patty, but there, Yeah, I mean

they're good. They're like I don't want to say, I don't want to say, like a Frisbee, but you know what I mean, like minie Frisbee coming back the book Round zero. Inside the NFL draft, I had the idea from my own draft experience. Because of my conversation with the Bears officer, the line coach, I'm like, he wouldn't have wasted his time calling me before the first round if he couldn't even get me as a free agent

or a trial guy. Right, So I felt like there has to be some disconnect in the draft process, or is there stuff I don't know? So I always thought like, I want to get all the angles and get stories to try and piece this thing together that everybody loves.

And I always say like, I don't want the opinion of the draft from necessarily the guys at w IP down here in Philadelphia, like you're great, but you're gonna get you know, the back page of the New York Posts, or your uncle Sal who just says this is the year for the Lion. Like I want to get true stories from the guys actually involved. I was like, can I get stories from players who went through it, GMS coaches and agents? I mean, those are really the four

angles that make up the draft. And I was fortunate enough to start doing some contributing writing for the Pro Football Hall of Fame last year, so I resellt them and said, hey, listen, I got this idea but obviously with my connections alone, I wouldn't be able to do this the right way. I said, if I asked for a few, you know, Hall of famers, do you think you guys at least outreach for me to see if

they'd be interested and participate. Absolutely. So then from there I had to pitch it to a publishing company and got one to sign off with it. And what we do is there's four sections, the players section where I interviewed ten different players legendary stories of their draft experience. Okay, what were your conversations like pre draft? What were you hearing? Did you talk to the team much that drafted you? How did you go about training? Talk to coaches? Same thing?

You guys good teams. So I talked to Bill Cower. I said, listen, your time in Pittsburgh. Your team's usually finished in January, right because you're in the playoffs. How much struss did you have to put into your scouts in your GM because you're really hopping in late to the process. So hearing his process of how he would attack and how you had assigned his coaches to attack looking at prospects, the GM's Bill Polian is he ran three different organizations and took all three to at least

Championship Weekend. One of them was obviously the Bills. He was the guy that really started that. He was there for three of those four years in Buffalo that they went to Super Bowl. He was the first GM with the Carolina Panthers in their history. By year two, they're in the NFC Title Game. And then obviously everyone knows that everyone knows about Indianapolis. But hearing him tell the Ryan Leaf Peyton Manning story is fascinating. In the book. Oh, it's in the book, and I'm not gonna I won't.

We'll have to leave someone in a teaser. But what I will say is there were some clear characteristic things that you knew that Peyton had, but they found out Ryan didn't from some stories. Now, Ryan his turnaround of life is very document and great. But the small sniff and I'll give you is Peyton said, I'm going to be there to dare for the draft. Off you draft me, and they're like, I know, you know, I had a full real stay, supposed to wait a week. He's like, no, no,

I'm gonna be there. You guys figure it out. So then they go and they asked Ryan. Lee's like, hey, you're ready to get to work right after the draft, and he goes, me and my buddy's got a Vegas trip out actually be a week late, like so it was kind of like right there. It's kind of like, I mean, listen, and then you talk to agents, and

my agent, Carter Child, unbelievable. He is a radular element story in here represent the number one pick this year, Vincent Taylor, first African American to represent the number one overall pick. I read, can't confirm that right now, but he's a great guy. And then case Donnie Hugh, who works more of a region out of the middle Ston area. And then at Least Steinberg mister Jerry McGuire himself fascinating stories.

My favorite part of at LEAs Steinberg is he was my first interview for the book, and Lee didn't hold a thing back. There was no agenda with him, there was no like I shouldn't say too much, I don't want to give away secrets, legal at everything hang. His chapters fantastic, but the players are awesome too. I mean, like I said, I got the chance to reconnect with Aaron Rodgers through this, and everyone thinks I know his

draft story. They know everyone thinks it was he thought he was going to the Niners until the eleventh hour. The rug was pulled off from underneath him. Then he had no idea what was going on, Right, that's what they want you to think. Yeah, he's like. He's like, look, I connected with mccarthur. They offensive coordinator. Me and Nolan never really hit it off. He goes, after I met with him, I didn't really think I was going there. I kind of had a feeling I was not going there.

He goes, I thought I was going to Tampa. He goes, John Gruden called, not only did they come to California and work me out? He goes, they he brought Jerry Rice for me to throw to who as a die hard Niner fans a kid, I'm like, He's like, that was great. And he called me a few days before the draft he said, if you're there, number five, we're taking you. He's like, cool, I'm not falling past five.

They took Kadillac Williams instead. Because you'll find out in this book, I'm sure the GM and Tampa had in final say no matter what, groom Onne correct. So the owner or whatever is fascinating. I found out a lot of the answers that I wanted, and I think people will too. You know, it's interesting. I'm friends with some of the former Bears guys, the guys who drafted Mit Trubisky, right, and they kind of walked me through the process of why they took Trubisky and not you know, DeShawn or Mahomes.

And it's really and sometimes just I don't think yourself, you know a lot of time, Yeah, and you just you overthink it, overthink it. And their whole thing, there's some other stuff, but their whole thing was like they had Jake Cutler before, and they had Ja. They had to have Jay Cutler dressed in another locker room because the guys didn't like him. I heard that too from my guy when I was in Green Bay who was

with color in Shag. I can confirm that as well. Right, And so when they brought in like Mitch Schrubisky, I don't know how you know him. He's like and look, Sean, dudes love him that love playing for him, and Mahomes

dudes love him, love playing for him. But Miss Schrubisky is like, oh my god, I want to have him marry my daughter right, and that there were other factors, but like that like one of them, and they made a gigantic mistake, you know, and obviously they lost their jobs basically because that, even though they actually have been pretty successful here of late, just not successful enough and

they change quarterbacks. So it's really interesting that exact scenario is why is part of the reason Alex Smith went for Aaron Rodgers, Because Aaron told me, He's like, yeah, I remember reading something or hearing something that Mike Nolan really liked the Alex Smith held the door first mom at dinner or something like that, and he's like, that's great, that's what you're looking for. Not that I wouldn't hold the door for somebody, but again, we just we connected

apparently a little different. Yes, Yes, there's great stories. There's interesting stuff about medicals. There's a medical history. You gotta read Benny Blade's chapter The Great Safety from the U and great chapter about his medical like causing a stir during his pre draft process. Tony Manderich, who everyone knows who everyone considers him a draft bust. But I told him when I interviewed him, was hey, listen, Tony, like

I'm not here to talk about your career. I'm here to talk about the pre draft process where you're the greatest offensive line prospect of all time. Tell me about that. He has a story about a dinner after his pro day with the Kansas City Chief brass that ended with an F bomb flying in him leaving before the andres arrived. Let's just put it that way. I mean, it's just

it's fascinating. So I'm sorry now I was saying. I think what people will learn is there's some stories too that help, I think shape how the draft is nowadays, and one of those is Steve Largent wasn't. The draft wasn't back then what it is now in terms of the popularity and how big it got. But I do think larger story made scouts better because he gets drafted by the Oilers in the fourth round, but he was

the Oilers second pick. So the Oilers use their second pick on Steve Largent only two then back then, you could cut a player, but once you deem you're going to cut the guy that you have like twenty four hours to trade him first. If a team, it's kind

of via waivers, but you could trade instead. So they ended up trading him to the Seahawks for an eighth round pick back when there was more in seven rounds, and I just could not imagine what that scouting department I was thinking and how much people have learned, Like, Hey, we just got the one of the best shaders of all time in the fourth round using our second pick,

so we traded him for an eighth rounder. Could you think about that today a team used their second pick to then virtually trade him for a seventh rounder by the end of training camp and the guy ends up being a Hall of Famer. I just think stories like Steve's forced scouts to do even more digging than I've ever done before and got the stories like that. I think you've shaped the draft. It's called round zero. You can pick it up everything that makes nice before round one. Hey,

let's use this again. I want more stories. Okay, I want all more stories. But I really appreciate you. And this was fricking awesome. I can do it for hours, and let's talk into it and again, let's put on date. Let's text us get a schedule. Cowboys game thirteen walked right now. I'm in okay, Okay, you work on tickets. I work on tickets. Okay, you haven't. I had a relationship with Aaron. I don't know if he didn't like me anymore. You know, Aaron kind of comes and goes whatever.

I don't have to give me tickets relationship with Aaron, but I'll reach out to a connection I have. Yeah, I don't. Actually I don't even know what I could. I could probably get to do the Fox angle to get the tickets, but but a beer afterwards with Aaron an undisposed locations after they beat the Cowboys. That would be amazing. Let's do it, brother, Thanks for joining me. I appreciate it. Man. Thanks. Yeah, remember to download, right, review, rate, subscribe,

do all that stuff. Thanks so much for listening. Im Doug gott Leep, this is all ball. Remember when Nember