All Ball - Nets Analyst Sarah Kustok on Broadcast Craft, Analyst Breakthrough, KD/Kyrie Nets

wish you all a happy New Year. Um, if I didn't wish she had married Christmas related Mary Christmas, we can still do that, right, It's only a couple of days afterwards. But we wanted to think this one in before the New Year because one, I really like sarahcu Stock the person. I like her the talent, and she has an interesting story and oh yeah, by the way, she covers a really really interesting team in the NBA, Like we gotta have her back on Talk College Hoops

as well. She's she's good at all of it. Um, but she's she does both sideline and she's an analyst for the Brooklyn Nets. And she went from being a a very good player with DePaul Blue Demons too now to im breaking through barriers right. Um, there have been other women, most notably Doris Burke, but there are others

who have broken through. But I don't know if people have a healthy respect for not just that she's a woman calling games in the NBA as analysts, but also like look before before the wave of a couple of different women, no one who didn't play or coach in the NBA was an analyst in the NBA. That's said glass ceiling for all of us who never played a second in the n B A. UM. So that's a hard breakthrough and it's an interesting dynamic when she's at

her place of business. UM, it should be pointing out that most people are starting to come around to what I think about Kevin Durant. He's an incredibly elite all time player, and I find it, I find it almost comically embarrassing. Can I put those two words together? I just did that because he played for Golden State. Well, that somehow takes away from what he's done, Like I don't know, he was on really good teams in Oklahoma City that had some fundamental flaws. They got to one

NBA finals. They obviously had a three one lead and loss to the Warriors. Katie was not good in Game six, But dudes of stud he's the greatest score of this generation. Um, and I think he's an lead all time great. And then you kind of got a factor in that his career more mirrors most careers, like Lebron having forty seven on his birthday, like Lebron's that he could not be

a human being, right. But but the point is, like Lebron his career, and he's had some injuries here recently, but most guys, most guys that that play ten fifteen years in the NBA have years where they get injured, they have wonky exits from teams they have you know, it's like Larry Bird's top five all time player in the modern Arab basketball. I'll fight anybody who says otherwise because we're just completely misremembering him and Magic running the league.

But like you know, Bird's career was cut short by injuries, and then there was the bone spurs one year, get bad back, a little bit of everything, right, Magic got hurt, you know, had been hurt one year. Um, Jordan's obviously early in his career, had the broken foot. So you know, KB had the broken foot one year and he had the Achilles tenant tear, and yet here he is in the conversation as the best player in the league, in the conversation's best player in the league, And UM, I

don't know Sarah gets the chance to cover it. Um, I don't think I need to do NBA thoughts or college hoops thoughts. Um as we we we bridged the gap from twenty two to twenty three. There is absolutely greatness in basketball and great stories in basketball. We'll cover them all here. So, UM, I just I don't need to do like a daily update with you guys. What

I do love is bringing people's stories to life. And this is Sarah cu Stock who works for Fox Sports, who works for Yes and covers college hoops, covers the NBA, and do does it both with incredible grace class and she's very very good at what she does. Here's my conversation with um, how good a player were you? Oh?

You're coming with the hot the hot questions early I will, I mean it's just like just an open question like now, I mean, look, you do this for a living, now right where you're I know how I would describe myself to answer that question. I was a winning player. My teams want when that that's it. I don't know how individually good or how you you look at breaking down different players in terms of skill set, stats all that stuff, But um, I felt like I contributed to winning and

to me, that's the number one key. Okay, I love that. That's I mean, I I just I have this thing where first somebody says they're a winning player. That's the ultimate compliment, right, I mean, that's why the heck do we keep school? Well, I said about myself. So I don't know if no, it's okay, like I I would say, honestly, if I was I was being candid, that would say the same thing. Everybody's a while, you're a great past. Like I mean, yes, that that that my my skill expertise.

But the point was that I felt like I did whatever it took to give my team a chance to win. And the greatest pride I have in my time, at least at Okal in the state is it was they were struggling with seventeen and fifteen two years in a row, and you look at the records of three years I was there. I felt like I changed, helped change the program back into a winning program. And I see that's okay. So were you, like again, give me a give me a style of player that that you were. I think

I to that point of what a team needed. I think it was different. You asked what I was when I was a freshman starting on my you know, first the high school team, when I was a junior senior in high school, when I was a freshman coming in at DePaul, and you know, started as opposed to I think it always varies, it's changed, it's fluid. Um, I was always a very good three point shooter. Um, I probably attacked a lot more, handled the ball more in a way of creating and scoring more when and uh,

when I was in high school. We like to Paul, I don't know how familiar you are with h I mean, give shouts Doug Bruno as I'm wearing my topol T shirt. But even back that he understood, given the personnel we play, we played fat like. We very much played the way the NBA now has transformed into. We shot a ton of threes, played super fast. We had a big that could run and was essentially four of us that were five ten guards and get it and go, And that's

what it was. About like always tops in the country, you know, one to three, four, five and assist, um. And that was the style of play. So I was a one or of two. But I also you know, given who we were, a lot of our we did a switching scheme on defense, so I'd guard bigs, I'd guard point guards. Um. But with all of that being said, that's why I just I think just the ability to be versatile. A lot of what I part of myself

was on the defense. Ven though, Like that's where even when I that's why I played when I came in high school. UM, because I could always guard the best opposing player, and I understood that at an early age. I also think to just like growing up playing with my brother, playing with boys, Um there was no girls teams at the time when I was in middle school, and then play with the boys teams through you know,

junior high and um, just always getting in run. Like a lot of what I did was not predicated on me having size or being stronger or being more physical, Like I had to figure those things out, and I think that carried with me then what my game looked like and what what it is that I took to how I played as I got older and got got better. Um, you finish up, and there's the there's there's the now.

What right? Um, when you're playing, did you have any I mean some women go overseas and play obviously, Um what was it? What was your plan in your brain? I don't know if I have any If I had a plan, like, that's the wild thing when you are so focused on something on basketball, Like growing up, I was always so focused on sports, improving its sports. And I knew the value of education. School good great. I

cared a lot about getting good grades. I cared about being at the top of my class, but I didn't necessarily think about that in terms of, oh what what would I like then to turn this into as a profession. And so I thought, as long as I hit the books, kept my head down, like, kept getting good great, I'd figure that part out. And going into college, I initially was I was a huge when I was in you know, junior high high school. I love math, so any any math, calculus, uh,

geometry whatever. I can't even algebra, Like. I was all in on numbers, all in on math. So going into college, I was like, oh, of course I'll go to business school. I'll go to be finance counting whatever crunch numbers. UH.

Didn't think much about that. And then I took a and like the Jenied classes I was taking my freshman year, it took a public speaking class and it both terrified me but also like gave give me an adrenaline rush and was exhilarating in a way that I was like, oh, wait a second, this is I like this and I always love to to write. UM. Writing was a big component of what I'd like to do since I was a kid, the research part of it, and so that

changed into me getting into communications. But it wasn't necessarily broadcast Like I thought nothing of being on TV, nothing about I don't even think I fully understood broadcast journalism. So fast forward within communications, I was double majoring in sociology. I thought it was going to be a social worker. UM mindored a juvenile justice. When I tell you, I was all across the board. I was all across the board. But I appreciated trying different thing like I appreciated things

I was learning in college. I end up being at a point and I'm very thankful for this, UH for Nepaul finishing up undergrad my fourth year and I was able to start grad school classes while I was still in my fourth year, so I was able to finish grad school and five of years that allowed me to keep my scholarship. Worked in our sports information department that fifth year, and I was getting my master's in Corporate

and Multicultural Communication. But during that time, I then had the opportunity and ms some individuals to be a runner and for ESPNS Big Ten football games because all in that area. My brother played in Northwestern. Like, come check it out, see what it is, See what it's about. Is to be just good learning experience for you. Easy drives to Michigan, Wisconsin. Where So where are you living at the time? Chicago, So I'm still going. I'm finishing.

I'm in Lincoln Park, in Lincoln Park address since I don't live there anymore. I was on Seminary Seminary and Webster a campus right on by local Shack and Sweet Mandy Bees. Shouts to Chicago and Lincoln Park into Paul

people that know those spots. But but I was. I was right there, and so I would go to work in our sports information department Monday through Thursday, eight to five or whatever the hours, working to night school classes Monday through Thursday to nine thirty, and then every Thursday night I would leave to go to Wisconsin or go to Michigan or Michigan wherever, the wherever the noon game was on Saturday, set day, be it beyond set on five am on Friday, do that all day Friday game, Saturday,

drive home Saturday, and then Sunday was like all my all my school work. Um, I did not sleep for in a time, an entire year. But what I learned in that year, and I also got to do some high school like high school broadcasts of same thing, Illinois high school state championships and some football stuff I did not fully understand. Despite playing and despite watching and seeing that the way a production truck work, the way TV work, the way live TV. I got blown away the first

time I sat in a TV truck. Whatever. I always tell the story, and I need to actually look back what the game was, but I think it was a Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Michigan UH football game. When I saw like red light goes on, saw what happens, producer, the director, see what happens with all of that, I was blown away and I was like, how can I figure out doing this

for a living. Are you kidding me? Um? And so that was it and there was a billion you know, twist turns path obviously, uh, getting to the point where I'm at today. But but that that's what triggered me to say, Wow, this is something that I didn't fully understand what it was, what it meant, how to do it. But I could be around sports and I could be around something that seems extremely challenging, um, but gives me that same adrenaline rush that I always felt as a player.

Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live. You know it's interesting is because you know you're in the truck and your runner for the for the Big Ten games. But even as you're as you're like, I want to do this right, like I wanted. That's what I want to do.

I want to do something around right like that. That's actually my basketball story a little bit like my dad was a basketball coach, college basketball coach, and then you know they get fired Lovvy State, but I'm still a love around basketball and I went to I remember the game I've been in state terming games. I've been to Final Fource. But when I went to an LM, you played Mission, Went played New Mexico State. It was the

game after Hank Gathers died. I just it was. It was at the Long Beach Arena, and I was I had met Hank Gathers the summer before at the Pump Brothers basketball camp. They played at cal State Northridge. They played pickup ball at night, and like the camp was, it was not yet like a full where they really knew what they were doing after hours. Camp was more like a day camp and they had a staying The camp was at Campbell Hall, which is a private school.

It's for the holidays. Boy, it went like through holiday. Just the camp was at Campbell Hall. But then somehow he left. They gotten like rooms to stay at it at cal State Northridge, so we had like free time. We like walk over and watch these guys play and and they had a couple of Orange County guys where I grew up, and so I became an LMU fan. And then I was actually watching the game when he died.

So I go to the game first gaming n a tournament and um, you know it was the most emotional sporting event I've ever been to, especially because I had been to the Long Beach Arena a hundred times because when my dad was an assistant of Long which State, that's where they played, And so it's not a huge arena.

It's like an old convention center, like on a thirteen thousand and fourteen thousand seats, like they'd never get into a tournament now, and yet the whole places maroon and there's forty four is everywhere, And it was it was when went when bow Kimball shot the free throw with his left hand and made it, and people grown, people who had no connectional real knowledge of hand. Gallager just bawling. I was like, I want to do this right, so but doing it and seeing somebody who enough guys that

look like you, that's reasonable. You're watching the Big Ten, You're watching ESPN. But outside of Cilent reporters, there isn't There aren't women right like I could you? I don't know what when was the point where you can conceptualize I can't just don't have to do this some sideline or do this with a microphone, like I can call

the games. Now you're calling one of the elite NBA teams games like it's it's really you endorsed, like incredible breakthrough in that you're doing two things that people couldn't do before. One obviously I have to be a man, and two you had to play in the league. Right. I mean, I don't think that people truly understand how the breakthrough that that you've had specifically. Um, but again,

let's let's go back. So all right, so you're watching and you're a runner, and you're not sleeping, and you're like, I want to do this, okay, and so what was what was the next step in trying to execute some sort of plan that, as you said, didn't really exist. Yeah, to keep it brief. The next step so still doing the being here for hours, given the way this trajectory went.

But um, but I think during that time, so the grad school stuff, that there was still thoughts about okay, what other what other career paths, the different things that I was thinking about trying to do. But while I was a runner and you know this, and and especially in a college football setting or whatever happened, you gain a familiarity your week to week doing this. The crew

was was Mark Jones, Bob Davies, Holly row Um. But when you're there more often, so I'd sit in, you know, back with with the tape guys and they'd show me how they run highlight like they The more I was there, I was understanding all the different parties with the TD. Okay, this is how we're pushing buttons obviously watching the producer, the director. Hey, we need you before the game. Timing is paramount, so we need you to hold out the team.

We need you to go down at perdue and hold out the team before it's the exact moment we need them to run out for you know, just all of those different stats guys not here, can you do stats today? We don't have a spot or can you go be a spotter today? So every there was different aspects of it that I was learning so much about the entirety of the truck and because of it, and again I say it like just the kindness of the bunch of the photo camera guys sitting around. You know, it's long days. Hey,

you know what, I think this would be helpful. Let's go do a fake interview. Let's grab these this this player sitting over here, Let's do a fake interview. Get you some demo reel. Let's do a fake stand up. Let's so with that being said, more of that, I was starting to compile a little bit of a demo reel. I was starting to call a couple of college basketball games as an analysts, a couple you know, college high school games than the Illinois high school state football games.

Come on, hey, can you do the sideline reporting for there's eight there's eight classes in Illinois. So it's right after Thanksgiving. You've got four games on Friday, four games on Saturday. All of a sudden, I got all the reels of all the stuff, but probably terrible work at

the time, but that that built that up. Um, trying to get into it, made some some in roads with those in Chicago having played there and knowing some people with those at ESPN and you know, the ESPN plus regional all that stuff started to get into it a little bit more. And then a year or after not you know, barely being able to make ends meet, pay my bills, eating a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Um. You probably are familiar with the story. Maggie Dixon, sister

of Jamie Dixon. She was the head of Uh. The um the assistant coach at to Paul with Doug Bruno and she ends up getting the offer to take the Army job. It's around let's say September. So I just finished grad school. I was working on my thesis, trying to put together TV stuff. She's taking the job. Doug calls and he's like, look, we're gonna be very good. I think this year. I know someone who know I need someone who knows how I recruit, knows all our stuff,

knows these players. Um. I understand you're trying to get into TV, but would you consider coaching, comming and coaching for at least a season? Uh. And at the time, again, I really was trying to put things together, make ends meet. I obviously have all the love for to Paul, those players, everything about it. Um. So I did that for a season and it was amazing, amazing, and I loved every bit of it. It was all over the country recruiting. I love that aspect of it. Um. I still see

a girl three. Um. But the scouting aspect, all of it, and UM, I think all of those saying I called some of the individuals that I had been connected with with the TV side of things, and I was like, what do you think about me? And They're like, to be honest, if if this is a lot of what you want to do, this this will benefit you, but just do it for a year and be done. So I did it. We end up going to the Sweet

sixteen UM lost l s u uh in. You know in the Sweet sixteen game, Sylvia Fowls was playing playing back then and um and so I was like, man, I I love this. I want to do this is I may want to do this forever. And there was there was a talk Doug and he's like, didn't stay like, just keep rolling with us. You're already you know, starting to figure things out now. And but there was a tug.

There was the TV thing. I wanted to see. There was enough of a challenge and enough of a um just attraction to what that was to see if I could figure that out and piece that together. And so end up going back to the TV stuff and that's where you know, fast forward a little bit. It was doing some you know, some work on high school games and then the local Fox station wf D Fox News director saw and said, hey, we may need you to come do some They ended up having this you know

this project you call it called Live news Cameras. That was the chopper shots of all the affiliates of Fox across the country. So I would sit there and show five in the morning. I go from like five to noon and just talk into it. And this is when things were just getting going with different the digital space, what people wanted to watch. And I would literally just go and click on these different things. And you look at car chases, You look at like it was wild.

But it allowed me one to be there and just continue to get used to talking and to then that progressed into oh, we got the Bears, so hey, can we send you out? You're here, can we send you out to do a feature with the Bears? You know what we we could use a backup sports anchor for for the weekends. Um, let's try you out, try and do this. And so then I started filling in there

Comcast Sports Net. So so okay, when you did, I know, I'm really this is this is what I don't like telling the story because it goes it's true, true, true all over the place. It's it's it's okay. But um, your first let's let's start with this. Your first college basketball game you did. Do you remember which one? It was South Florida to Paul Women's Basketball on Fox Sports something Yes, yes, okay? Um? And who do you remember the play person? Yes, it was Dave Kaplan. It was

Dave Kaplan. I also called some. It's funny we UM did some. I did some high school games as well with Eric Collins, who is the play by play voice UM play by play voice of the Charlotte Hornets. And he always jokes about that because he used to call some of my high school and college games. And then one of my first high school games I did was also with him. My first two UR I was still playing. I did a guy named Pete Jerseys who used to run ESPN Regional. Uh. He and Sean Murphy gave me

to TCU games. My first game was TCU Butler at Hinkle. That's a good games. Sad was the coach of Yes, his dad's your but in his first run Yeah, and uh, Hinkle had not been redone. It was before the kind of Butler thing really took off. Um. Scott Robisch, who had been my teammate and close friend of Oaklham State, was playing it. But like that's the weird one. Was calling the game of a guy who you played with right at Oaklahoma State. Like You're like, yeah, this is

my friend. I could tell you a lot of little details about him that no one would ever want to share on television, right, Um, so I did. I did the Paul Butler and then I did I mean see me at TCU Butler and then I did TCU Texas Tech in Port Worth and um Estri was my my host both times. He's a huge he's the TCU guy. And then I was having beer a beer with Peters invite me up to his hotel room with a couple other guys. It was like a suite and Fort Worth was an event, and you know, he was like, you

know you should do this, blah blah blah. I mean when I got back to my hotel room and the red light in my phone was blinking and I got offered to play with the Salina Rattlers and the I B A and but I had to leave the next morning and then play two nights in Des Moines and then travel and so I did that. So I I left the chance to do games, then came back. My first ESPN game was with I know, you know him what you know him as Dave reston the Big Ten Network.

And this is the part that I'm interested in for you. We did our first game. We did a little tournament deal. It was Colorado and u n C Charlotte back when you UNC Charlotte was very good, and we did we did a double header. We get in the car and are the guy who hired me is getting Dan Steer And Dan was really good with feedback. But it was really honest with feedback. And you know, I've done like two games before, and I've done an audition for ESPN.

I've gotten off for these games. And Rever is the most prepared human being I've ever been around. But it was his first ESPN games as well. And I never forget this. We're driving around, were in Charlotte. We're going to have a bite to eat after which we did. The games were like I feel like conquering heroes and he's like, what do you think? So Steer calls us and put him on speaker. He's like, what do you think? Right? Man? We be killed it. It It was great. He's like, now

you guys are fucking terrible. You know, Doug, You Doug, you talked too much. You talk at the wrong times and never like too much information lessons more. Anyway, when you did your games, did you get feedback? Yeah, I got honest feedback. I also think to doing it. So the things that I did or one it was the very very first thing I did was in that analyst role because you just played, Hey, you're gonna call a game.

You're gonna call women's basketball game. But then as I started to do more and try and piece things together, it was, oh, we think you could be a sideline reporter on you know, I do college football games, which that I knew real well or you know, different than it became the MLS games, and it became indoor lacrosse, and it became NHL stuff, And it always different processes of where I was at in terms of understanding won the game, the sport, and to the actual TV mechanics

behind it. And so I feel like I but I say that to say I was also in the Chicago market and like, in some ways it was amazing because I was in a place where people had known me. So I got some opportunities, um, which I'm super grateful and thankful for. But it's also I would get crushed on the radio or people would say, you know, when I started to do more things that were of of higher attention or bigger you know, bigger type games or or events. Um But I also think the people I

work for were always which I'm thankful for. I would always be the first to say, I'm like, I played like I I had coaches that would cuss me out and yell at me. I'm like, I need you to be honest because I want to get better and I want to improve. Um So I do think that throughout the course of my and I could drop many names but career at all different junctures people like yeah that was that wasn't good or and then begin to point out specifics of things I also think, and I'm is

your thoughts on this? I mean, the first thing someone told me is like, you gotta you gotta watch yourself, like you gotta watch back. And there's nothing I hate more to this day, there's nothing I date more. And but that was something I um early on was it was for ESPN regional. Um so it would be on different different parts of ESPN, whether it was plus you you know sometimes we're in ESPN two. But it was a big East college football pack and I was doing

sideline reporting, and so I struggled so much. And this was early on watching myself that I think I went three weekends, let's say three weekends and games and hadn't watched anything back um, and my producer was asking something. And then I finally went back and I was whatever, I whatever the the things I was saying or doing what I was like, man, girl, if you would have just watched this after the first weekend, this is correct.

This is all correctable things. And it's one thing I want to have someone tell you or pointed out, but two it's the same as playing, like watching film. You could have a coach tell you something till he's blue in the face. But if you sit down I watched the film, you're like, oh, I, oh, I get it now. I thought I did this and um, so that was really important. But I do think that, um throughout the course of my career and still just like a lot of people with tough love or honest critique, and I

love that that. That's that's the area in all in in life that I oh, I want the feedback. I want the feedback because I want to improve. I want to be better at whether it's professionally personally you name it. Um, so I eat that stuff up. And and so I thankfully have had a lot of people that that were good about that. I think that's the difference in the former athletes and non former athletes, right is that? And and like some former athletes are super sensitive towards they

don't really want feedback. They want out of boys, right, but most most really we've you've been coached, you want

to be coached. And what's interesting is that. And maybe as you've climbed to now where you're at an elite level in the broadcasting space, I would guess that people you know, there's lots of executives if they would never give you feedback now, like I need it more than everyone, right because because now it's just like everybody just thinks, well, she's star, she knows what she's doing, which you do, but you, yeah, you can use it like, hey, did you know you had like a little crutch word like

really like yeah, you always say such and such like well it's really helpful, But nobody says that when you actually get a couple of jobs, because they think that you're either your ego or that's not their place. It's a weird thing. I also think it's such a fascinating as you continue to you know, being this business longer. Uh, it's such a subjective business. So that's where I find

it interesting. Of it's one, it's it's great and especially to you think about individual so are younger getting into this. It's great to get feedback, it's great to get criticism. It's it's great to want that. But also being um, I don't know if if smart enough for intelligence, but figuring out, okay, how do I make sure I'm picking and choosing, Like I appreciate this, but I actually don't agree with you, and I'm still the face doing this.

I'm still the one saying this. So your opinion on this and especially too, and like that's where there's a balance of it. Um. I think that's where as I got I had individuals say, oh you should I think if you do it this way or these you know, how you frame these questions. And then at some point I was like, wait a second, I actually I don't think I agree with that, and I'd rather I'd rather go down with with what I think or what I think is um the approach in perspective, I want to

take as opposed to another. So that's why I think this, um, this really is an interesting business in that in that regard, because there are parts of it that it's not just cut and dry of what's this is good, this is bad? And so that's where I think there's a balance of how you continue to prove figure that out, but also

do your style or what's best for you. What was your what was your big break right because you had done a lot of regional games, You've done sideline, you know, but what was your big break in in in broadcasting? I would say getting hired full time um by it's now NBC Sports but Comcast Sports Net, and I had been doing a ton of freelance work for them, a lot of it. I did a show called high School Lights,

and so I'd go out. It was you know, high school sports really big in Chicago, Chicago area football, basketball, So go out do a story. It's it was a show every Friday. Um I'd fill in and do some freelance stuff, bulls games, um some bare stuff. As I told you, I was doing some things for five But that was where it was a compilation of doing some work here for ESPN and doing some games, doing some stuff for Fox, doing this or that, and got hired full time to be there, you know, one of one

of their anchor reporter whatever it is. We got feature reporter. Uh. It was everything. And so I'll say for multiple reasons. One the consistency of it, as you know, and I ended up wanting to give me the double shifts, uh, you know on the weekends. This is where life life.

When you talk to people of the compromises you make, you know, working every every weekend, every night, um, but getting a chance to anchor getting a chance to host, getting chances sideline report, um do all these different figure out how to write an actual feature and put together a story and go through clips and um, every aspect of TV. I one had amazing people that helped helped

me grow and learn there. But too, you're on the stage of I was covering the Bulls of Bears, the Cubs, the black Hawks, and the White Sox, and I got put on early which I knew nothing about hockey, and it was it was rough early on. And that's where I talk of getting crushed in some of the you know, in some of the Chicago m Chicago media critique because I was covering this black Hawks team that it was.

It was up and coming, so as in taves And and Caine were young, seabrook Keith like they were, they were just getting going. Is when Derrick Rose my first year was Derek Rose's rookie year, um, so covering the Bulls team as well, cover them through the playoffs. So it was a very big stage when I one was learning hockey, um new basketball, but still learning the mechanics of TV. But I had to have a quick learning curve.

And when I was able to do those things and excel at some of those, I think that's what then. You know, that's where I felt like, Okay, I've established myself enough that I'm just gonna do everything I can to soak up all of this knowledge, keep getting better and um that that was it and that was the place. And while I was there, I was still able then still called some um some women's college games as an

analyst for ESPN. Still was able to do some other a few other different things, uh staying in terms of actually calling games. But the rest of it that that to me is what what made me in many ways is what I am in the TV business. How did you get the yes job. Um, that's a great question. I did my my agent. It's sent in. I mean, I was excited about the Nets move into Brooklyn. Um. I think my agents sent in a real I was covering the bulls at the time, obviously, but also some

of those who who's your agent? Who was my agent was Mark lep Selter. Um. Okay, so does he tell you? Did he tell you hey the Nets? Nets? Uh? Net's got a gig? Or do you just do it? You know? Like I don't remember. To be honest, I don't really

I don't really remember. But I remember go out there for an interview in the the idea of um, the idea of fully entrenching myself after covering which I looked, you know, covering the NFL, the NBA, uh, the NHL, MLB, all that stuff in a team that was making the move to Brooklyn. Like that, that's the year it was making a move to Brooklyn. I would go as a sideline reporter, UM, travel with the team, be entirely immersed

and entirely immersed in the NBA. UM, And to me, that was you know, I was always uh born and raised in Chicago. Love Chicago, Chicago's home but always love New York. I traveled out there a bunch for work and I'm a city I'm a city girl and I love city, and so the idea of being there and then I met, you know, a phone call with our producer and still coordinating producer now game producer now Frank to Grace and he was amazing, John Philippelli. Uh, just

every everyone in you know in the network. Uh. I was just so impressed by And so it was. It was challenging too, because there was there was opportunities in Chicago, and I think just having you know, grew up there been there work there. Um. But yeah, it was the right timing and the timing of the team and the excitement around that. I think it's something I'll never forget just how special that felt opening up Barkley Center. Um,

I just moved out there. You know, jay Z is having his whatever eight days of concerts, and it just the the idea around, as I said, like my love for the game, I love for the NBA. Being able to to really just pour myself into that with something that that I thought it was so cool and I'm so so grateful for the hardest thing. And this is again this is my commentary, not yours? Do you tell if I'm wrong? The hardest thing when you're doing sideline, for you is you actually really know the game right,

played coach, cover it, really know it again? And and I'm not here to disparage any silent reporters that didn't play or coach, but there's a difference, right like you, as you've shown, you can very easily slide into analysts here do that job. Most sideline reporters cannot. But with that comes the it's powerful but the challenge of asking

questions but not trying to prove yourself, right. The hardest thing in being a side on reporter is when you want to you want the person to kind of respect you and understand that you know, you understand what's going on in the game, But really it's about their answer, not about your question. So there's these competing things, right, and people get themselves and how did you do that?

How did it? Because you're very very good at being concise and asking quick questions and not trying to prove yourself. How did you? How did you do that? Especially in the world in the NBA where you hadn't like these dudes didn't know you and uh, I think I think I'm someone if you know me as a person, Uh, two fold on that, I come on I'm easy and

I come on slow. So I always I always hope and assume, and especially it's the team year around a lot or whoever, that at some point eventually you're gonna you're gonna get to know me. And I'm not gonna come on strong at first, but you're gonna eventually get to know that I know the game, where I played

the game, and it takes a while. Sometimes people don't realize that, but I think that was a a process of even when I was in Chicago or covering, like at some point it'll hopefully, hopefully about the questions I asked, the way I present myself, the conversations we have um that will come across, and what you'll respect me for

those reasons. And too, I think from the time I was a kid, like, my personality is not ever to make anyone think that you know, I'm the smartest person in the room, and so it didn't matter to me. I was always very much of a UM. I even think about this is that when you're asking what type of player was I like, what what type of teammate, am I, I know that what matters is we want to get an amazing bite from this guy who just had a killer game or a really tough game, or

in the locker room. And I think you know, understanding what it feels like to be the highest of highs or lowest of lows as a player, um is something that I valued and I thought was important with how you hopefully resonate with guys after those moments. And so you know, to me and I even think to me to like, at the end of the day, that's what

it's about. But it's also about just your preparation. You can be at your best when you are so prepared that you have that one percent of information that you wasted. You know, I even think about that my boards now or how you prepare. There's of stuff on here that I will never look at, I will never use. That doesn't matter, but there is something on here that does matter.

And I think that was just all of that. And so getting to the point of you knows how I even got the opportunity that my producers and boss it felt comfortable enough to give me the opportunity to call a game because of a scheduling quirk with our analysts is because I prepared every game like I would call the game. That was just my approach to it because I wanted to have that information. I wanted to know everything.

I never knew what was going to come up in a game to be like, oh man, this is this is very useful. And for those reasons, I was always comfortable with that. And that's not to say like that. I think it's also the understanding of you're gonna have bad games, You're gonna have bad interviews, You're gonna mess up like that. There's gonna be things that happened that are whatever you say it was either wrong or how you phrased it, or you you know, it was way

too long and you you did say too much. And I think it's just how can you, okay, learn from this experience, learn from this and continue then moving on? Uh how did they tell you you got your first chance to do the color of the analyst role? And they my um John Philippelli, who I brought up, Flip

Um and Frank to Grace. I can't remember who called first that they called, but they quite frankly they asked if I would want I still at the time had been calling a good amount of um with Fox Sports women's college games, and so they would steal when I'd have a free, free day or free time was steal. So I was still in some ways in that analysts chair of that mindset, but doing it on the women's side of things. And I, um, I can't even remember how they call or what called, but they it was.

You know, during March, our guys were all doing some n C double A stuff, had some you know, turner obligations, and they said, we don't not not one of our three can can call it. But we think that you know the game and know the team well enough to do it. And and now the thing I love is now that doesn't seem like that big of a deal. That happens now and in a lot of cases, but um,

I was doing interviews for NBA TV. I was doing it was the first time that a female was as an analyst for the NETS, you know, for the NETS broadcast, and I think just across the league that was such a big deal. And you brought up I mean, I think about Doris Burke, I think about Ann Myers, Drysdale, like the individuals doing that and doing that with such a consistency, and it felt like such a novelty for me to call one game, and I was excited about it.

I appreciated they gave me that opportunity, but it was wild that once I didn't once got to set sit next to the great the greatest, greatest there is, Iron Eagle. UM made it so easy. We were at Philadelphia, which, um, their broadcast position is not a great one, but it's it's like it's up and it's off to the side and your high and uh. But but it was amazing and I did that and I was like, oh my goodness. It was the same type of thing as when I sat in a production truck of like, whoa like doing

this on a daily basis, This is a drain. But but circling back to your you know, original original statement. Early on, it didn't even cross my mind that I was like, oh, maybe you know in what had happened? It was it was one year, I think it was. They're like that that went pretty well. Maybe next year. And the next year I got a couple of couple of games, we did a couple more three man booth um, but that that was my hope. I was like, man if I could do a couple of games a season.

This is awesome, and then still supplement it with you know, calling calling the w NBA games in college college games, um, and then it just it progressed from there. You call a game off the monitor or you callee, just stop your eyes off my eye. I mean I would say, off my eyes. I'll check a monitor for a replay, like if you're obviously looking at But no, I I

can't say that's why it was. It was really wild during you think about the pandemic or COVID or when we're doing games remotely calling off a monitor just because No, I would say, I barely. The only time I really look at a monitor is if I'm looking at a replay. Now, how loquacious are you with your producer when you're calling a game? In terms of like like i'd say, one of my things is I talk all the time, but I usually have to talk back button going. Sometimes I don't.

Sometimes I'm just laying out, checking out. But you know I'm clipped that. But I've been told I talk a lot to the producer. Well, I'll say that my more so for Brooklyn Nets games. UM, Frank to Grace, I brought him up a lot. He's our game producer, he's our coordinating producer. He's been doing it for ever along with Eyn Eagle. Um, we're like, we're all best of friends, and so our conversation. I mean, I think he is the best of the best. Um, he's extraordinary at what

he does. He's an amazing human being. But we will we will talk all game and in many cases, hey did you see this? Whatever? You're talking about games stuff that we're also like ragging on each other. We're making jokes, we're cracking on this, we're talking about It's a constant dialogue. That's why I think we too have so much fun. It's it's as though you're watching a game with your best friends and calling the game. And it's the communication,

even the communication. I mean, our truck is amazing and so we're you know, I'm saying stuff to our director and uh, you know just is to our tape like everyone. I think that's that's the fun of it for us. It's amazing when a team is winning and doing well. Um, But regardless, our job is to be the best we can be, and I think when we do it, it's obviously very professional it's we're approaching it in we take every game. It doesn't matter if it's a second of a back to back and the team is good or

bad or whatever. But we take it with the same seriousness and the same preparation. But we also have fun because we're like, we we enjoy one another and this is what we get to do, So we're gonna have fun while we're doing it. Um so yeah, But but I do think it's different. I don't think it's the same. Me and you were not the same before. If I'm doing a college with a producer, I only work with you know, a handful of times a year, a little

more off and on. I think that's where, you know, I'll definitely be hidden and talk back about things I see or hey, if we could, that'd be a good good thing to run again, let's see replay of that. But but otherwise I try not to be uh too chatty. I know they got a lot of coming on in the truck. Yeah, you have spend spend one one quarter

in the truck and be like, oh my god. Um when you got to the nets and they were in rebuild mode and they had Kenny Atkinson, Um, that was a team that I had only been told by people in the NBA, like, man, they've got great chemistry, like they those dudes, they have figured it out right, No name guys. They played analytics basketball, you know, getting to the rim, shooting threes. They cheered for each other like that was and it was like aam but it was.

It seemed really fun to be around UM. And then they add these two stars. But you know k D was hurt, like, what what has that been like in terms of the temperature around the team? To go ahead, I'm sorry, No, I was going to take you back and not to UM. Like when I came, as I said, the NIXT had just moved to Brooklyn, so Avery Johnson was still the head coach, and that's when they had signed Joe Johnson, signed Darren Darren Williams. Um ends up every ends up getting letting go. PJ takes over as

the interim head coach. That second gear was when they hired Jason Kidd as the head coach, made the big trade with Boston guard it and Pierce come. The team has expectations to win a championship. UM and then everything, you know, I don't need to go through the entire Uh, because but when people even when you know you go through the would work. Yeah, I I didn't know, Like I was just excited, like there was a ton of buzz attention. I was interested to see, you know, how

these guys would come together. But all the different I guess my point is all the different iteration there is to me, I had such an appreciation, enjoy and fun of all the different iterations of the team because you're seeing some all time grades. And then to your point, the the years of Kenny watching the development, You've got guys that were either cut or waived or didn't know if they were going to make it in the league.

Those who were dealt with injuries, so that's maybe why they dropped in terms of their their draft status or

where they were with their career. And so the beauty of watching so just again so many different iterations of what guys were and at their careers, and that's where I think they're you know, I just have so much appreciation respect for you look at different teams and how they jelled together, the chemistry they had, um how much fun even the timeline and then not having any picks in the first time when they made it back to the playoffs, we were at Indiana, the D'Angelo Russell, you know,

Spencer Dinwittie Carreris LeVert, those group with Joe Harris, you know all of that. There There was um every single season and within the course of the season, there was so much joy for me because of how much I love the game and just seeing how things played out

and even if it didn't work out. And then um, the signing of you know, Kevin and Kyrie, that was equally as just thrilling and exciting because you're like, wow, all the foundation laid about what this organization had gotten itself back to drew in these super super elite talents UM and it obviously, you know that's why you just you roll with it. And no one anticipated the pandemic.

No one anticipated all the challenges of COVID, No one anticipates different injuries, UM, the way lineup shake out, And that's where I think you ebb and flow with it, you know. To me, that's why I'm like, there's nothing I could see that could surprise me anymore in the league.

But that's why like now this cur Win Street, watching the vibe of this group right now and how they're coming together the way Kevin has been playing, Like his ability not only to perform at this level but do it in a way that um is something to me that I find so much joy in every night of not just getting to call his games, but watching how he is and connected with his teammates and saying goes for Kyrie Saint all of the stuff across the board,

and you never know how long things will last. And to me, that's that's the fun of what we get to do, Like it's this is all live, live games. Ball gets tipped and you never know you know what things are going to pan out like and things can look away in November and be entirely different in January and saying goes for April, um, And that's the that's the fun of basketball seasons. Do you know things? And I'm sure I like when when Steve let go or quit or however went down, like Avery, Like, do you

know those things before they happen? Everything depends. I'm there's obviously being around a team, traveling with a team, there's a lot of things you know or don't know. There's fields you get. I mean to be honest, most times I don't know things, but there's stuff that you, um, that will surprise you, and then there's things that maybe don't surprise you as much. And I also think sometimes it's just the timing of things or how um how

it all works out. But that's why you know, I think even to just with this business or even all coaches or those that make decisions, like I think everyone understands what they're signing up for and what they're getting into. Um, but yeah, sometimes sometimes we do sometimes. And that's the same as there's things that you may know or those who are you know, on the phone all the time. Their job is to break news, and you know, there are a head of things about you know, the nets

or whatever teams, um. You know that I'm I'm not as locked into because it's not my responsibility, uh to be breaking news. So sometimes there's things, you know, sometimes there's things that like I'd rather I'd rather not you know, I'm just gonna go about and I don't need to try and dig into things. Um if it's stuff that's not gonna matter, you know, not gonna matter on my end.

I thought, listen, I've I grew up and I don't know if if you I'm sure you're pretty aware like Jock when he was a kid, when he was in high school, he was revered in southern California. Like he was the consummate point guard. He was the guy everybody wanted to play a you like, he was the dude and he had the personality for it and everything. Obviously this is his I guess you'd say third time around, right,

he's a head coach that didn't work out. Then he was the interim coach with the nets in the bubble, and then now he's the head coach. But like to mid season to have this flip where they'll play for him. And there's a lot of other aspects to it. What what is different about Jock from what they were doing previously? What has what has is it just Kevin and Kyrie figuring out how to play with other guys? Like what what has changed? There's a lot of things. And then

I'll get to Jock because I couldn't agree more. Um, he's a special, special individual. I'll say one, the team is finally healthy, and that did not exist in the early part. They're finally getting the full compliments of the roster um back, which makes a major difference. Uh, there's a lot of players that just had not spent a lot of time playing together, so want it's help. But to you even look at you know, Ben finally being healthy, t J. Warren being back, Joe Harrison Seth hadn't been healthy.

Like there there's a ton of players, um that even like the contributions of you to wat A Nabi was a guy that you know who would have even known if he would be in the rotation. And now he has been consistent. How Kevin and Kyrie have gotten used to how they're playing with one another, um, how they're playing with Ben Nick Klaxton has been a revelation of just his growth and his improvement. But all of those things, with those pieces of everyone playing together, I think naturally

takes time. And this is a group that I think, you know, there was so much scrutiny early on and I think they had more of a patience. Um. But the biggest change with and Kevin is playing at a otherworldly level. UM. The biggest change with Jock has got you know, he's got an infectious energy. He shows up with this attitude, let's get it every single day, every moment of the day. But his communication with players in

game adjustments preparation organization. You watch him during a game time, what he's demanding out of them, um and doing on the defensive side, how they're communicating rebounding aspects, pushing the right buttons with the lineup, lineup combinations, when he's calling timeouts. Uh, it's it's somewhat like you could see the amount of time that he spent he got that job in Orlando. He was very young. Uh that when he was an interim when you mentioned in the babble, did a tremendous job.

But he just continued to show. Even his decision to stay on, Uh, his associate head coach with Steve Nash, he's been when that's like you know they let him go. Yeah, and even like through the course of him you know he was he was then interim head coach before they named him the head coach, when there was a lot of discussion and rumors going around about the hiring of you, and he told the team, he said, I don't I was asked to coach today. I was asked to show

up and coach you. That's what I'm gonna do. If they asked me to come back tomorrow, That's what I'm gonna do. And that's his attitude, Like it's real, it's genuine, it's who he is, and it's how he um has been able I think just to get a ultimate buying and now I think too it comes from, you know, it's him, but also comes from how the leadership of Kevin comes from, how Kyrie has been playing, comes from guys are just having fun and winning. You like, you

know this winning is fun. So all of a sudden you get a taste of that. And it's not just winning, but it's the style they're playing. Everyone's getting touches, the assist numbers are through the roof. Um, guys all feel like they're a part of it. It's not just you know, it's not just the superstar players. And so I think for all of those reasons, Um, it's just been a good fit in chemistry. Chemistry matters in the league, and

they've they've right now built a really nice chemistry. But I think Jock is, Uh, you can't give enough credit to him just for for being who he is, and this is who he is and this is what he's prepared for. You know, literally through the course of his entire career, you get to see Kevin every night and we are in a society where we have and I and you and I have been on these shows together. Right where you're on these shows, you're commenting on guys.

But the the idea that you're gonna watch these guys play every night like you just don't nobody you know it too. Honestly, it took up until this year that people figured out Russell Wilson Russell Westbrook wasn't a good defensive player like y. I'men a good deal other player for half a decade, but people didn't pay attention. Right now they pay attention. Um what what? What impresses you about k D? Watching him every night? I don't even

know where to begin, because he it. I think the thing you start with first is the skill, and the skill comes from his true love and adoration of the game and how much he's poured into it. Because I don't care that he's you know, seven foot and you know six like obviously that that makes it different. But his his handles, his decision making, his actual the pureeness of his shot and his jumper he's making shots with guys cloaked around, is a quickness of his first step

in understanding angles of how to get to his spots. UM. Now watching what he's doing diving on the floor defensively his coverage, Like he's now so locked in on the defensive end. And that's what's changed with the whole group because he's doing it, so everyone's doing it. His passing ability starting to like make pinpot, but the refinement of his actual skills. But the more you watch, he's he's fun because he loves he trash talks and he does it in a way that he just loves it and

he enjoys it. And he's chattering the whole game about you know, different things with different players. Um, because he just he lives he lives the game in a way that UM, I think I just think it's it's absolutely beautiful and he Um, he's an elite, elite level player. But I think just understanding you know, watching him in warmups, watching him and shoot arounds and practices like this is

not a nowhere um. And you know he right now, the way that he's been playing and how he's figured out, um, how to bust up defensive coverage is how every every defense you know is game planned about how to stop him. Uh. And he continues only get his numbers, but get guys involved.

I think that's the special stuff of just the brilliant studies shown and how he understands the game and then doing so it's such a a just crazy level of efficient see um all right, And then covering Kyrie, which is is hard because he's an unbelievable talent, right, I mean, he is incredible with the basketball, but then he just all of the other stuff he just I don't know if he struggles with or he wants to make everything harder, you know, whether it's media commentary or how his interaction

with teammates when he first got there before Kevin was or coaches or whatever. But then again, you get to watch it every night, how is that it feels like that's changed and that's gotten better, whether it's buying how Yeah, because he similarly like he loves the game. He wouldn't be that talent and that skilled if it wasn't about how much time he poured into the game. And for me, he's he's wonderful to be around. He's always been great

to all of us. UM. He appreciates and cares about his teammates, He cares about the game, he cares about winning. UM and the way he's been playing has been at an extraordinarily high level. His shot making, his handle like there's things you see that he does it so quickly and so smoothly and with such ease that you need to watch it in slow motion to even realize, UM, just how incredible it is of of the moves he's

making and what he's doing. And so again it's like I in all every night of different things that happen, and that's throughout the course of every quarter, every game, every night. And that's something that I will never take for granted, UM, because not a lot of people get to do that and see that on a nightly basis for work. UM. Is this sustainable for the playoffs? I? I think so for a couple of reasons. I want to think health always matters, UM, But no one's doing

things outside the realm of how they can play. And I think the contributions you're getting from other players UM are very much within the horse of their roles and

how they play and what their strengths are. Uh. And defensively, they've continued to show that they could play like this in a sustained period of time, and the type of players they have the type of style is is styles that translate into the playoffs, possession, game shot makers, those that could close out, uh, switchability, versatility in the lineup of of who they're playing, and you know, so for those reasons, like I do think so, um, but it's

still a very very long season. But I think they're wins and the way they want against Milwaukee, against Cleveland, um, some of these other teams when they're playing more um of the high level teams and doing it against those type of groups. Uh, that's I think what has continued to open up eyes a little bit more. I got one minute. In ten years, Zara cru Stock will be doing what happy and challenged, let's hope. So that's all

I want. I want to I want to be filled with the same joy in peace I have today, um, and in appreciation for whatever it is I'm doing and challenged. Are you ever? Are you ever not happy? I've never come upon you when you're live. I'm here, I'm alive. I get to I get to be around some great people. So no, what what what I got? I got no complaints? I got no complaints. Well, you've been more than gracious with your time, and this was fine. This is fine.

I'm around any time you're in hotel rooms exactly. We'll do it again. We'll do it again next time. What I need is, I need a list of the best hotels you stay at in the NBA, because I've heard their unbelievable. I could, I've got, I've got all the travel I've heard. The Peninsula, I've heard the Peninsula in Chicago is the king it is. That's that's what That's what I've heard. So we'll do that next time. You

gotta go. I appreciate you. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and thank you so much for joining to you as well. Thank you, Doug. I hope you enjoyed that, and I hope you love this podcast. We've Got Great Things Upcoming is a booked a good amount in the future of players, current former coaches, current former storytellers, who are who are going to make your drives from game to game, from practice to practice or anyway in your life better that. That's the idea, right, So this thing on, I got

friends or coaches like and this must listen. Okay cool? If you have a suggestion at Gottlieb Show and Twitter, at Gottlieb Show on Instagram, um or the Doug Gottlieb Show fan page on Facebook, or of course, if you're actually a friend, just text me. That's what most of you guys do, you know. Um and uh, it's been a it's been a really really good two two more to come from an exciting announcement to come in from All Ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb. Thanks for listening.