Open Minds: Navigating Systemic Inequalities and Cultural Acceptance

And on this week's episode , I pulled out a vintage episode between me and Andrea when we were recording podcasts on Zoom , so it's a little wonky to watch because it's a little bit old school I mean , if 2022 is old school but it's a topic that was relevant back then and , unfortunately , is still relevant today . So it's about 24 minutes .

It's an interesting episode . I would love to see what you think of it . And , yeah , thank you always for stopping by . Here you go . Okay , hey , so it's so good to have you back . I'm glad that you're here . I think we're going to be doing these on a more regular basis .

So , for people who are not watching the YouTube video that I've just started on my website and on my YouTube channel , andrea Nunez is back with us and I think you're going to be doing this on a more regular basis , right ? Am I just crossing my fingers on that ? Yes , I will be here whenever you will have me .

And then maybe at some point somebody will sponsor us and we'll just be able to do a show together , which would be fantastic . But for now we're just doing this little thing , all about the joy , and we're always going to try to bring it to business .

But really the whole idea for me is just to be always looking at the most positive possible outcomes of any situation that's happening in life . But your expertise and what you do why don't you tell us a little bit about what you do and how you help people ? And if you want to talk about your company or not , it's totally up to you .

But I thought I'd give you that form too , because I didn't last time .

So you know , we work with the owners or the executives , as well as their teams , and try to get the organization to a place that it's healthy , right Ideally for me , doing good in the world , and that it's a healthy organization in terms of what it's actually doing and that it's profitable .

All of those things , and I think all of those things are linked as well .

I don't even think I follow her , but I am now . But somebody else had written something , and so you know how that happens when you're a friend of somebody's , you see what's on their feet as well .

And she had written this post that said , until it is no longer necessary , on every single hashtag , iwd day , international Women's Day , right , I will post this as a reminder and take action myself too . And then it has a little hand pointing downward and it says hire Black women , promote Black women , protect Black women , pay Black women .

And it was just this post , and people , of course , commented on it , and I was and am beside myself as to the negative , nasty comments that are still on there Now . The comment that I responded to a few times in a very nice and professional way I did .

That person has since deleted their initial comment , and I think it's because at some point I turned around and said to them what are you doing , like ? But let me read you what they wrote Don't we wish we ?

They wrote your post is offensive , it is divisive , racist and sexist . It is not empowering nor positive . It is not admirable . It is not empowering nor positive . It is not admirable . Replace one color with another color and we're all ready for civil war . Higher talent , promote talent , protect humanity , fair wages for all .

Recently I listened to a group of women in this case , speak on leadership and one said I am because you are Sorry . I have to gasp a little bit Sorry , she wrote it . Okay , let me finish what she wrote , cause this has since been deleted . So you are because I am . Another said how do we make the whole visible ? How do we fight for everybody ?

This I could relate to . We can sharpen one another so we can rise together arm in arm . What if we imagine a world past ? Color , gender , race , origin , age ? What if I know ? Here's the thing For those of you listening on the podcast . I am a woman of color , so I just need people to know that , in case you don't know .

And Andrea , you are not , you are a . You are . What would you ? Well , I mean ? But the irony is , if people knew what our ethnicities were , they would realize that we are so much more alike than we are . Not Right , but people confuse skin color with ethnicity .

My first question when I sent you the email was basically this like why are white people so triggered by lifting up people who are in disenfranchised groups ? Right , and let me just caveat with this .

One of the things I responded to this woman was you know what , when somebody is disabled , when somebody has an issue where they are in a wheelchair or they are in a circumstance that is something that disenfranchises them from my privilege , or even as a woman of color , because I have light skin privilege , my privilege , or even as a woman of color , because I

have light skin privilege , I understand my privilege . Even in that part of it . There is a privilege to having light skin and blah , blah , blah . I never , ever get triggered . If anything , I listen and I put a handout and say how can I help ? So my question to you is not just in business , but as a white woman , but you can answer both .

Why are white people so triggered by this statement ?

, but here's what I believe . I believe that several things . First is that there is a sense that there's uh , you know , there's a pie right , and if I give up my piece , it's very , it's like a , it's like a kindergartner mentality almost . It's very immature and juvenile .

I don't want to give up even a sliver of my pie because that's there's only so much to go around , and on some circles that's called like scarcity mindset or lack mentality , and I think that's been very much ingrained in people .

If I give you something , that means less for me as opposed to understanding that if there's more equity , more inclusiveness , more diversity , there's more for everyone , and the pie is going to taste so much better . I was just going to say I was just about to bring it back to food .

Okay , that is one of your loves , so everyone knows , one of my great loves is why I can never move away from a big city . It just really just think about the diversity of food options that you have . Right , I can have Thai , I can have Indian , I can have Cambodian , I can have Korean . You know all of these things .

My life , I believe , is enriched by that , not just because I love good food , but because it teaches me something about these people .

You know , every time I have something like that and what they care about and it , I think , for me that lifts everybody and it's and I don't mean to be like facetious about it and be like , oh , it's just about having tacos or whatever .

And that , you know , which brings me to another point which I'm assuming we will get to , is that these are systemic problems .

These are systemic problems that are ingrained in our culture and the way that we live , the way that we operate , definitely in business , definitely in education , and it filters through to the way that we interact with each other on a daily basis , filters through , you know , to the way that we interact with each other on a daily basis .

What exactly does that mean ? Who are you systematically excluding with some of the stated qualifications and the unstated ? Not a culture fit dismissiveness , right , you have to look at . All right , what's my pool of candidates ?

He did that really famous line where he said and I'm misquoting it , but it's the same flavor it's like when you look at a resume , you won't just look at the name Johnny , you'll also look at the name Jamal . We don't even realize our own personal racist ways that we see the name Jamal .

We don't even realize our own personal racist ways that we see the name Jamal or whatever , laquisha or whatever you want to call it . You look at certain names and you dismiss them , whether they're Asian names , latino names or whatever , because it is systemic .

It doesn't mean that you're walking around saying the N word , it's that you don't even realize in your head you have fit into what society has decided is not worthy of a job in tech , because you think somebody with a certain kind of name couldn't possibly have the education or the wherewithal or the know-how to do that tech job . Yeah , absolutely .

I mean , I worked at a company and I you know to this day they're doing really well . I was a partner there . It was a great company when I was there and I remember having the conversation that they needed to find more Asian guys to hire because there weren't any other people qualified .

And I remember myself being like because I didn't know anything about the design world and motion graphics at the time I was like , okay , we all would be there for that . Or okay , you want me to find people where ? And here's the thing , it is ingrained in us , it is system and I wish white people would get that .

I'm not saying that you as a white person , as a white executive , as a white owner of a company , are intentionally although some of you are , but some of you are not intentionally being racist .

They are things that are ingrained in us and so I just wanted to throw that out there because I am really tired of people being so triggered by uplifting other people .

It was about somebody had posted something about the new Disney movie and about how he didn't see himself in it and it was boring or something like that .

I'm paraphrasing , but the I don't see myself , and it was something that he said and it was like welcome to the experience of every person of color you have ever come into contact with . That's right . You know what I mean and it's , it is , it's triggering , and he definitely got schooled , maybe got schooled .

I don't know if he learned anything , but you know he got told and that is a very difficult thing for people to overcome , to stand back and be like I mean just it's the general skill of being able to say , oh , I have something to learn here is something that a lot of people have not learned .

I can't say the word , so I don't know why I'm trying to use it , but this woman that I reacted with and we were going on and on and she just kept , she could not stop being defensive , and it made me even kinder , right , it made me even nicer .

I kept trying to be even more , and there were other people chiming in trying to tell her like what are you doing ? Like you're now becoming very racist and everything you're saying because you're so triggered , and I think that's why she deleted the post .

I'm not the post , that the comment how do you as and I've always said this to you and this is bad on my part , but I always say you're one of the good ones , right , and what I mean by that . Yeah , I'm letting it all out there on my podcast Hashtag good ones . What I mean by that is people .

You know we say the allies , we say people who are allies , but what I mean by that is you're not triggered by my brilliance , right ? If anything , you have always lifted me up as a woman of color .

I have never felt that you were trying to step on me or felt intimidated or felt like I was taking more from you , and I've seen that with you on in so many other circumstances . Just in the way we work with people .

I've seen you talk to white bosses that we've both had and kind of school them in a nice way about their own racism , and they don't even know you're schooling them . So how do you become this person or how have you or how has it happened ? Is there something you can bottle and we can sell to other white people to help walk them through this time period ?

We are so tired of the racism , especially when we're talking about things that are happening , like George Floyd or you know have happened to may he rest in peace , but just you understand what I'm saying Like we've had it right .

And then there's people like myself , who are , like I am trying to be as understanding to white people , Cause I think white people are having a struggle right now . They're having a major issue .

You see people who are waiting it out to see how it all plays out and people who are freaking the fuck out , sorry what is ?

The country is becoming much more diverse and there's it's not , it's a wave , it's that you're not going to stop , right , the train has left the station , it's happening , and even the conversation that we're having . People wouldn't have had this 20 years ago .

Like that kind of stuff where it's just well and that doesn't have to do necessarily with white people , although it does , but I mean mean , that's a whole other issue we'll talk about you know , those kinds of things I think make uh a a section of people feel like you know my way of life , my culture , you know the way my way of being in the world is

being threatened and that's what I mean by existential threat , like they feel like it's they're in a fight or flight kind of moment , I think you know it's so interesting because , as , as a woman of color and yes , I'm only speaking for myself , I cannot speak on behalf of all people of color , I you know , just to clarify in case there's any confusion .

It's being taken away from me from people who are less than or don't deserve it somehow . Right , there's just like all this , like layering of it , and for me it feels like I wish I could change that thought process in saying no one is taking anything away from you .

We're asking you to come to the table , we're asking you to sit at the table where we should have been all along , you know , and together . But you can't see , you can't do that We've talked about .

I could go on and on and on all the things that are wrong with that way of thinking , on and on all the things that are wrong with that way of thinking , and you know one , one of my biggest pet peeves is what I call willful ignorance , like you are choosing to be at this point . You are choosing to be ignorant on this topic , right .

And one of the most frustrating things , I think , for a lot of people is that , you know , it would help everybody Most , a lot of the people who are most aggrieved by what they see as this diversification of the country would actually benefit in very concrete ways If they would , as you say , come to the table in good faith and be like let's work together ,

we're in this together , let's . So I was going to be totally Pollyanna let's work together to make the world a better place . But I mean , that's what it's about , right , Make everyone's lives better .

That's how I grew up , believing , and then realizing oh my God , I'm not Right , we're not . Is there something ? to that Right , we're so , not You're the baddies , and I love my country . But I'm just saying , is there something to it with that as well ?

I feel like some white people I know are really triggered by the idea that black people are smart and brilliant and good and , oh my God , are they on the same level ? You know what I mean ? Mean , or are some even better , like I had someone make a comment the other day like I can't believe he's a CEO of that company , and I was like what ?

Why he's a Harvard grad . You know , I went down the list of his resume and they , well , I mean , it's just weird , right .

Yeah , there's a pathway to the American dream , maybe . But you talk a lot of these people who , like hearken back to things were so great back in the 50s and we were so prosperous after the war and you know you could buy a house on a , you know , working class salary .

Let's talk to our farm worker friends and talk and tell me how great it was back in the 50s . Let's talk to people who had to drink at separate drinking fountains because of the color of their skin . It wasn't freaking great . Sorry , I keep wanting to cuss .

Like I never am excited about period pieces Cause I already know where I would be in that period piece . I do not relate . You know what I mean , I do , you know it's . It's like this weird joke . At least I'd be in the house , is what they would say . Right , I know it's horrible , so it's .

Yeah , I just wish it was easier for people not to be so angry about the world . You know , for me it's not that it's changing for the good , it's changing and it's about time .

And are people going to have a reaction ? Yes , they are . But people had a reaction to women getting the right to vote a hundred years ago . People died and even then white women were the ones who really got the right to vote . It wasn't until many years later , until people of color .

But it was a long , arduous fight , and and so is this and it will continue , and we're still paying .

We're still trying to deal with that , which is , yeah , there's still a subset of people who think that the women shouldn't have the right to vote , and there's always probably going to be a subset of people who feel like , because your skin happens to be more melanated than mine , I'm better than you . Like , people are going to .

There's going to be people who believe that and that's not going to change .

But this was somebody referring to YouTube in an abbreviated form . I was freaking out , but look , I think we should . I mean , do you have anything else you wanted to add ?

Every white person , mostly white women , because , you know , I went in and looked at it Angry we're the same . I don't see color . I'm angry , we're the same , I don't see color . Oh , my good Lord , like it just was devastating . And so I hope , I hope , people got something out of this , at least have a conversation about it .

But we'll have to touch on this subject again in our next episode , so hopefully you'll come back next week .